The Hoely Hour - THOT LEADERSHIP: A Woman's Right to Personhood

Episode Date: May 23, 2025

E228: What do sex dolls and brain dead human incubators have in common? Neither of them can consent to what is being done to them, which makes them ripe for abuse. Liz and Amelia talk about a sex doll brothel in Germany, and the horrifying details of Adriana Smith — a legally dead woman in Georgia being kept alive as a human incubator. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

it makes me want to rip my shirt off like the hulk i've always wanted to do that god i think that that would really slap do you ever just want to like scream really loud absolutely you inspired me to get bangs back how does it feel uh i just feel really validated good because i said in my 2025 predictions that bangs were in bangs are are in and you know what i might have said this to you i don't remember who i said this to but i did get bangs right after me oh i said this last week i got bangs right after me and frank's uh anniversary i did say this on the podcast i can't make the same joke two weeks in a row but i was like make it now nobody can tell me nobody can ask if i'm going through a breakup because i posted about him yesterday because

every single time i post that i i post my bangs whenever i get bangs people are like are you good yeah oh no are you so are you still okay are you are you single again you're so hot they're trying slide in i'm just kidding nobody says that um so we have some serious topics today i want to get their ass kicked by frank oh yeah and he's a scary guy he's a he's a strong one my man's um so we have some pretty serious topics today so for that reason i have a fun thought starter yeah let's let's start let's start fun because it's gonna get it's gonna be like a hot ones episode where it's just gonna get worse hotter and hotter and by the end we're all gonna be screaming and swearing and snotting yeah gonna need some ice cream after this chugging milk for some reason uh well milk

does help when something's too spicy i know people always bring like oat milk or almond milk onto that show because who's drinking two percent anymore are you ready for this this yeah give give us a a little uh a sweet little appetizer okay i have a few if you don't want to answer the first one that i ask not that you wouldn't want to but maybe you maybe you don't okay you have 24 hours in someone else's body who are you picking and what are you doing 24 hours in someone else's bod well i want to pick a man's body absolutely because i just want to know what it's like to have my genitals on the outside okay that's not what i was expecting you to say i i'm just curious yeah i'm curious and

i'm curious about the sensation of an orgasm when your genitals are on the outside yeah that's fair because i mean when you have a clitoris all of the nerves are packed into one spot and that makes for an exciting time sometimes totally you know yeah it's like a little magic button yeah um I also want to know what it's like to not have giant boobs that make me sit like a a mosquito or I mean I was thinking about the mosquito emoji because it's so like hunched over yeah I sit like a little shrimp a literal shrimp yeah and I would like to know what it's not what it's like to not have that okay um and I'm trying to you know do I want to be a hot guy do i want to who do i want to body swap with you know yeah there's a lot of questions

do what and like do i want to do i want to swap bodies with someone who's super ripped do i want to swap bodies with someone who is built okay excuse you oh or do i want to swap bodies with someone who's built like jack skellington these are important questions they are important questions and there's a lot to take into consideration what's the benefit of being built like jock skellington yeah and what's their health circumstances like do they have cancer i don't know why that's the first thing i thought of yeah yeah yeah with you know i don't know you know and maybe he's just top of mind because we were just talking about him but i think i would want to swap with hassan biker for multiple reasons you know and i i thought of that too

because i was like we were just talking about him yeah and maybe that and i don't want to switch bodies with my boyfriend because that feels like maybe an invasion of his privacy or something okay that's nice or maybe i would feel more comfortable yeah you're like familiar with him yeah yeah but it's just 24 hours you know it could be a scary 24 hours see i really want to swap with like a large man because i want to be tall i want to be tall and a little scary like because like i want to like drive for uber for a day just to like know what it's like because like i was thinking about it having a stranger in my car is the most horrific image for me you know you don't know what they're doing behind you yeah you don't know they could be pulling a knife but if you're a big scary

man people are less likely to fuck with you and i've always been curious what it's like yeah you could go outside at night i was just about to say that i want to take night walks yeah you could be the scary one yeah i would have to change sides of the street so that people don't feel scared that's power yeah would you go sing like karaoke or something no i think no next question i think that i would just do hot man shit i would like go and like lift a bunch of shit at the gym just because i think that hot man shit is going to sing karaoke okay going to sing pink pony club and rocking the fuck out of it you know yeah i want to see what it's like to be a man that women flock to just so i can understand where they get the audacity from gays yeah what is the female

gaze what's it like to experience that you know what's interesting about hasan piker too he fits the male gaze and the female gaze so well yeah and men hate that yeah and i love it hmm so that's that's my answer i would detain him at the border if you know what i mean i'm like do i want to be a famous man or do i want to be someone that you know or just like a random guy i kind of just want to be like a random dude yeah because then you could like experience it in peace yeah i want to be a random guy in like sweden or something okay i want to be tall uh and you know what i you just made me think about this like it was like a tiktok where

the a guy was asking about like what would you do if you were a woman for a day and all of the men we're like i'd go to clubs and get free drinks blah blah blah um and i just the assumption that you would be a hot woman that is so a little ridiculous yes that's so true why why are you assuming you'd be a hot woman right you didn't earn that no that wasn't part of the assignment like how about you you trade places or like you what if you became an ugly woman yeah yeah then you finally get to experience how men literally terrorize women that they're not attracted to yes have you ever thought about that uh-huh it's insane to me you know what let's just talk about it okay like i saw a woman talking about this on tiktok a long time ago and i feel

like i've already briefly mentioned this but like men will literally terrorize women that they don't find attractive and to me that is insane yeah it's insane behavior like do you see women terrorizing men that they don't find attractive no but i bet you anything there are like red pill men out there that would say otherwise yeah but it's like are you fucking 14 it's like everyone's terrorized when they're 14 by other 14 and also i think that those men think that being terrorized means like not being slept with yeah you know like and and at that point too it's like okay i don't know it's ironic because incels are considered a terrorist group yeah and it's because they terrorize women they don't find attractive yes but i don't i i just

think it's crazy to like your your behavior towards someone is determined based on how they look that's wild yes especially like when like you should be looking in the mirror a lot of the time you know what i mean yeah yeah let's consider personal hygiene you know yeah like brush your teeth once in a while and then maybe i mean preferably twice a day but you know you know i only used to brush my teeth once a day until i started dating my college boyfriend isn't that fucked up that's super gross insane it was only one morning or night night night awful horrible nobody was telling me and now i go with morning breath nobody would tell me and i was just kind of like it was because i hated morning so much i was like i'm not doing this fucking extra step

ridiculous i had a high school boyfriend too and only for a few weeks and maybe that's why if i whenever i if i didn't brush my teeth in the morning it was because i forgot but i see now i can't forget it's and when you oh god if i forgot i would be like yeah i can't chewed gum chronically though so okay remember wisps those like little like portable toothbrushes that they had for a sec that wouldn't do anything but it would make you feel like you did okay well never mind well i don't know i just don't that's what i know is that what you use i feel like maybe i've dreamt this up at night no like i would put them in my car uh-huh like jic but like they didn't do anything just in case what you already weren't brushing your teeth i was like kissing

someone i know that's the thing it's like i was like you know it wouldn't hurt to like you know breath mint a little bit or something but i wouldn't do any of it most of the time so gross i'm so glad that i've moved past that yeah when i was dating my ex i was i was brushing my teeth like four times a day did your parents ever like did they know you weren't brushing your teeth in the morning or no they like probably not i feel like they would have said something they just assumed yeah i feel like because i would be like getting ready upstairs they're probably like of course she must because why wouldn't you assume yeah um but i never got any like cavities or anything and then when i started brushing like four times a day i started getting cavities because

i was like going a little too ham um you know wearing down your enamel yeah interesting rip enamel anyway should we dive in to like the serious things we have yeah yeah let's talk about some polarizing topics uh they won't be polarizing to us or our listeners because um we have this audience brick by brick yeah you guys are our people did they build us or did we build them i think it's been a like a parasitic relationship parasitic in a good way so first i want to talk about um have you heard of the cyber side brothel no yeah well what do you think it is i mean i i i figured what it was and then i saw what it was side brothel reinventing intimacy at germany's only sex doll brothel uh what the fuck this is an article by the berliner.com

I just feel like not everybody should have a safe space. You know what I mean? Uh-huh. Yeah. Like, that is the most horrific thing I've ever heard. I'm going to read brief bits of this article to you, and then we can discuss. Great. Between 2017 and 2018, Europe saw a surge of sex doll brothels opening in cities from

london to helsinki businesses like x dolls in paris and loomy dolls in barcelona pk'd public curiosity promising a judgment-free experience with realistic silicone playmates however most folded quickly citing limited demand and regulatory challenges yeah i think that's a good thing yeah yeah oh my sex doll brothel business isn't taking off like i thought it would explain it like oh what do you do for work like i own does it say something about the guy who made this one that he considers himself um not only an artist but uh he calls it sex tech i hate this guy an artist is he an artist in a different right or is he calling this art not that i'm aware and oh he's a filmmaker and i can we just safely assume that the film he makes is pornography him fucking the

probably probably i'm a filmmaker um most cited quickly citing limited demand and regulatory challenges today only two have persevered naughty naughty harbor in prague and sai brothel in berlin and with the closure of dorman's board all in 2023 sai brothel is now the only sex doll brothel in all of germany it's arguably a cy brothels multidisciplinary approach to artificial companionship that sets it apart rather than simply offering dolls for clients to have sex with cy brothel incorporates emerging technologies like virtual reality and artificial intelligence pushing the boundaries of these interactions founded in 2020 by filmmaker philip fessing Fusenager founded in 2020 by filming filmmaker Philip Fusenager that is a tongue twister

sentence writer Alexis Smiley Smith and artist Sujmo Akali Cy Brothel began as an art project before evolving into an operational business in 2021 i hope you can still see it says fusenager reflecting on the sex doll brothels artistic origins i put a lot a lot of creativity into discovering new ways and new services i let's pause for a second have you ever seen blue mountain state no it it's like a i know what it is problematic comedy about i think it's it's either about a fraternity or a football team which essentially is the same thing in my opinion and um there's an episode about one of the guys who has a pocket pussy and all of the guys start passing around the pocket pussy and he doesn't

know who stole his pocket pussy and then they all get an sti and he was like this was my grandfather's pocket pussy that's really funny this is kind of reminding me of that wait i have a question though so this started as an art project and i feel like when people do art it's to like share a message what was the message first of all and second of all i don't think it was like anything that would make sense to like lead way to this becoming a functional business you know what i mean yeah like it feels like what this would be would be like like a commentary on like objectifying women and like sex and then they like make it so that people can fuck these dolls makes no sense to me you would think that if it were some kind of art installation or art

project like you're saying it would be commentary on objectification on consent like what does that mean what how has this devolved like yeah but no that and that's a great question that this article does not answer situated in a private residence in oh yeah oh the space offers clients fully immersive sessions that blend the physical with fantasy clients choosing the full option can engage with interactive dolls an experience brought to life by human voice actors operating from an external control room jesus christ the sex doll is almost alive when you come in she speaks to you each doll has a distinct persona from mainstream blonde paris paris is the name to blue-skinned scientist liara oh no i try to release every one or two months a new doll with

a new character new shapes and forms clients who prefer a more private experience can opt for the basic option without any enhancements or an overnight stay oh my god beyond dolls cybrothel clients can partake in mixed reality gaming experience cherry vx created by polybay or immerse themselves in bedoink vr videos oh my god which combine visual elements with touch for heightened realism according to fusenegger most of cybrothel's technology is developed in-house by a sex tech entrepreneur matthias smitana smitana currently focused on sex ai an initiative that as described on their website seeks to redefine human intimacy in what way though you're not redefining you're not redefining it no you're entirely defining it by taking the other human

out entirely yes and that's not human intimacy at all i mean i guess it's one it's like masturbation that's literally what it is i suppose you can consider um jerking off human intimacy yeah i guess but you're not really redefining it can you call it human intimacy at that point it's not it's not even human a redefinition it's people have been fucking sex dolls for forever it seeks to redefine human intimacy yeah you're redefining it entirely by removing both the human and the right that is so gross to me in a way that like I feel like normally when I hear about these things I can kind of understand it in a way you know it's like oh well this is like good for people who xyz this there's nothing that feels like ethical not that this is on ethical but it

doesn't feel because like they're not real right well like here's what I think I sure they're not real but you could say the same thing about child child pornography that was generated by ai it's not real kids you're not harming real people but you in the long term you are harming real people because you are doubling down on the male loneliness epidemic but yeah but truly you are you're you're continuing to cater to isolation of a person um and you're also like you're really reinforcing the idea that like another person should not have to consent to right physical activity that's so true i mean like there it's the same kind of thing with like the idea of sex robots having a feature of like not consenting like there was a conversation about that for a

while they were like creating robots you could rape essentially i mean that's kind of what this is right but i mean like they need to live out your fantasy of whatever the fuck you want yeah it's i wonder what it would be like do you think if somebody like a virgin goes into one of these clubs they would consider themselves divergent like if there was like a voice on the other end that's that's complicated let's ask a man do you think of um if a virgin went into one of these sex doll brothels do you think they would still be a virgin but like if there's somebody on the other end like talking to them

do you would you consider okay so here's another piece of this article um the the creator claims that wait a loyal customer base has helped Cy Brothel survive surveys conducted by Cy Brothel's team indicate that most clients are in relationships and seek an experience they don't consider infidelity oh jesus christ so would you consider this infidelity yeah especially if there's somebody else on the other side yeah yeah that's true well so if you don't consider if you consider it infidelity but you don't consider it real sex that's a question too so if you're no long if you're still a virgin but right but i would still consider phone sex cheating yeah i guess that's the line yeah

okay well and then interesting also like does the other partner know about this oh some even bring their partners for a threesome light allowing them to explore together it's a shame-free environment where people can try try out stuff it's self-care that we offer there you can be with your own sexuality there and focus on your needs but i that's also that's also a little bit of a problem because if you're like oh let's like explore the idea of a threesome with a sex doll like yeah it's just like introducing a toy into the bedroom yeah you know what i mean like that sounds like a really expensive threesome yeah and also like if you did want to experiment with a threesome there's going to be another person involved who has their own preferences

and has their own like voice that they will want to consent with like it's not the same i don't know i guess if you if your partner really wanted a threesome and this was the only compromise you could come to yeah who am i who am i to judge what another woman decides it just feels like tolerable this is a lot of like but like we're you know you could have a whole experience with your partner that you wouldn't have like it just feels like they're making like use cases that don't exist you know i think cy brothel is a tech drenched dystopian fever dream masquerading as innovation yeah it's marketed as shame free and immersive but let's be real at its core it's just the same old misogyny wearing a vr headset the idea that men in relationships using this and

not considering it infidelity says a lot about how far we've slipped down the slope of objectification when intimacy is reduced to a series of programmable programmable functions when a partner's personhood is replaced with heat settings and voice lines you're not exploring sexuality you're escaping accountability i think that ultimately it's problematic it's i think it's problematic because of the objectification piece and the power dynamics of removing another person's consent but I do understand that like if someone like I think that it could be sorry I'm trying to think of how to put this into like I don't think that there is really anything positive about it I think the only thing that

maybe I could be sympathetic towards is like if someone has disabilities trauma histories or severe social anxiety having a judgment-free purely physical outlet could be empowering yeah but that is so hyper specific and I also think like if that's something that you want to explore why would you go all the way to like a brothel I don't know maybe it's more affordable maybe but like blow-up dolls and sex dolls can't i mean i'm sure there are some like models that are like expensive i mean sexual intimacy is never going to replace actual human emotional no of course not and it also clearly has like a gender skew this is it's predominantly men using female sex dolls are there pictures of what the sex dolls look like besides their headless

naked bodies hanging yeah in that one picture no so fucking weird i also don't know if i want to know what they look like i'm a little curious like are they here's one there's one man it's rarely used and it's rarely used by women oh the male sex doll interesting i mean that is it's not surprising it's not surprising yeah i don't know this is i'm glad that these don't only exist they only exist in like europe oh my god this one has a badonk too she got a big ass hell yeah yeah i'm glad that there are like they're they're only like two that exist you know there's not like a high demand yeah you know like keep these keep this between you and your hand in my opinion how how would you feel if you found out that your partner was like going to one

of these I would be like you have a girlfriend at home yeah but you have to the problem with that is you have to accept someone's personhood you have to yeah like you can't just have sex with your girlfriend like you need to be a good partner and also what if your partner has like sexual trauma you know there are there are some things that where it's like okay I can kind of understand that but I just think that there are better strategies with dealing with things like that like going to therapy like working on solutions together like I I'm very curious to know to learn i want to know how many of these people who are in partnered relationships how many of their partners know about this yeah you know yeah yeah i don't know like i can understand

like the the use cases that you just laid out like that makes total sense to me those are also so niche and it's probably it's probably a small percentage of what is actually happening absolutely yeah oh i don't know it freaks me out business is dwindling good but they the owner of it said that it's hard to find um new customers which that is a little reassuring because i kind of don't think that this should exist in general it feels like one of those things that like a bachelor party would like go to just for like it's like like hiring a stripper yeah know it's like oh we got you a stripper like oh we took you to a sex doll brothel but like then it's just kind of like i suppose there is a novelty piece to it but then it's also like

really fucking embarrassing yeah imagine walking in and out of there you know like people know where it's at yeah it's like that guy was just fucking a sex doll in there well it's private residence so how would they know right that's also very weird yeah you just have this in your house uh-huh well and how would like can you just pull up google maps yeah yeah who has this does someone live there is this like an airbnb that's what i'm wondering like is it somebody's like this is just someone's like bonus room what if it's like an airbnb situation and you just like set up the sex dolls in an airbnb and charge people honestly good grift come fuck a doll in my airbnb help me help me pay for my stay here well now i have an even more

fucked up conversation that is um in the news right now and we talked about this briefly before recording um this is about the woman in georgia um adriana smith and this is an ap article case of brain dead pregnant woman kept on life support in georgia raises tricky questions i mean i don't think they're tricky questions i hands down think this is really straightforward it's fucked up yes it this this woman who is legally dead is being used as a human incubator um so i'm gonna read uh the article really briefly just so any listeners who might not know about this story are fully caught up. The case of a pregnant woman in Georgia who was declared brain dead has been kept on life support for three months has given rise to complicated questions about abortion law

and whether a fetus is a person. Adriana Smith, a 30-year-old nurse and mother, was about two months pregnant on February 19th when she was declared brain dead, according to an online fundraising page started by her mother. Doctors said Georgia's strict anti-abortion law requires that she remain on life support until the fetus has developed enough to be delivered her mother wrote that's so i mean this isn't the issue but that's so expensive for the family that's insane well i'm pretty sure this is against her family's wishes as well um the law one of a wave of measures enacted to in a in conservative states after the supreme court overturned roe v wade in 2022 restricts abortion once cardiac activity is is detected and gives personhood rights to a fetus

smith's mother says it has left her family without a say in a difficult situation and with her due date still months away the family is left wondering whether the baby will be born with disabilities or can even survive some activists many of them black women like smith say it raises issues of racial equity emory health care which runs the hospital has not explained how doctors decided to keep smith on life support except to say in a statement that they considered george's abortion laws and all other applicable laws the state adopted a law in 2019 to ban abortion after cardiac activity can be detected about six weeks into pregnancy that came into effect after roe v wade was overturned that law does not explicitly address smith's situation but allows abortion to

preserve the life or physical health of the pregnant woman three other states have similar bans that kick in around the six-week mark and 12 bar abortion at all stages of pregnancy david s cohen a professor at drexel university's thomas r klein school of law in philadelphia said the hospital might be most concerned about part of the law that gives fetuses legal rights as members of the species homo sapiens cohen said emory may therefore consider smith and the fetus as two patients and that once smith was on life support they had a legal obligation to keep the fetus alive even after she died these are the kind of cases that law professors have been talking about for a long time when they talk about fetal personhood he said some argue that fertilized eggs

embryos and fetuses should be considered people with the same rights as those already born i don't really know where the line is anymore you know because it's like it's felt so painfully obvious from the jump that they don't the government doesn't care about women at all when it comes to really anything but specifically when it comes to this because there have been so many instances of like women having to carry their dead babies to like around like to basically not debt like they're going to die to term just to give birth to this child that is not going to make it more than 10 minutes which is so traumatic just to be sure that this is like following the law of the land which is it doesn't make any fucking sense it's there there's so many just really

obscenely fucked up components to this especially regarding like personhood yes because okay personhood of a fetus what about what about the personhood of the women who needed like medical abortions to save their life being told to bleed out in the in the parking lot yeah bleeding out and dying in the parking lot because hospitals are so much more concerned with legal repercussions than the oath that they took to protect people yeah to the best of their abilities yeah yeah like it's it's fear politics well and i think it's also very important to point out that this is predominantly happening to black women yes and the way that black women's bodies are treated just from from birth to death is is obscene yeah like young black girls are sexualized

like before they even know what's going on and and they're treated like they know what sex is just because they're black yeah and and now just kind of like the dehumanization of of this woman adriana smith because she was nine weeks pregnant when when when this happened yeah and um it's it's a state sanctioned violation and um i i kept thinking about the woman in arizona who she's in a vegetative state we talked about this on the podcast she was in a vegetative state and was discovered to be pregnant like i think while she was giving birth because um one of the nurses had been sexually assaulting her raping her horrific and i i was comparing the difference in response to both of these stories and i i want to kind of like explore a little bit more about like

what other people's mindset might be around like why they should be keeping this woman alive because she was nine weeks pregnant to be clear her family did not want to keep her on life support yeah so in this in this case like if a fetus has personhood but this woman would have died then the baby the fetus would have died yeah and like if if this is a religious thing like that is god's will it was god's will for this woman and her fetus to die and now you're intervening now you're playing god and like the family's concerns are so valid like what they wanted is not being respected yeah um they they can't mourn the loss of of this person in their life because she's forcefully being kept alive to be an incubator for this fetus that they don't

even know if it's if the fetus is going to be okay right like how are they going to be disabled are they going to be functional and if they're if they're disabled if this baby is disabled if it survives first of all if this baby is disabled is the state gonna pay for it like no they don't give a fuck once the baby's out like who is paying to keep this woman on life support who is paying to care for this child if it has disabilities and even if it doesn't have disabilities like it's it's so horrifying and fucked up and like the the question of personhood is so deeply personal and religious like if you think that this is if it if you're if like god doesn't want abortions or whatever like that is your belief

and i think a line needs to be drawn where the government can't impose its religious ideologies onto the rest of the people i mean that's been the whole thing with the separation of church and state it has not been followed at least in our lifetime once if you don't think abortion should be legal or like if you don't agree with abortion then don't get one yeah but there are far too many people in specific circumstances where these laws are now more harmful than helpful to everybody my whole thing is like these people that are so like pro-life which i fucking hate that phrasing because it's like every everybody's pro-life that's not the fucking issue you know it's like you're anti-abortion is what it is like they are the same people that are

like overwhelmingly these are the same people that are like against gay marriage and like you know against like trans folks against the drag drag queens like reading books to kids that it's like what if those if those fetuses grow up to be humans that are gay like you don't care about them at that point yeah you know what i mean like they well they don't they don't care about people they know they care about they don't care about a fetus after it's been born like i i don't know that it's always about like oh protect the children but then when it comes time to like fucking walk the walk and actually protect children we're like not protecting them at all we're defunding education we're not providing like universal health care it's it costs fucking

like after insurance it costs like twelve thousand dollars to give birth to a healthy baby yeah i can't even imagine how expensive it would be to give birth to a baby that needs to be in the NICU yeah like yeah it's it's truly it's disgusting and it really is like I was at the point that I was trying to make when like we first started discussing this was they view fetuses no matter how you slice and dice it they're viewing a fetus as more of a person than the person giving birth absolutely to the child absolutely and like why does this woman not deserve a dignified death right yeah and it's it's not i don't know it's it's not about anybody's right at the end of the day like it's not they don't they're it's you're they're not giving anybody any sort of rights

because like what are they like giving rights to a fetus like i guess that that would be their argument but like but it's it's about controlling women the fetus is not even born yeah this woman lived a whole fucking life yeah and and she doesn't deserve the dignity to be like valued for for who she was yeah and now you're just treating her like a human incubator because that's really to these people that's all that women are it's we're baby making machines and that's where it ends truly and and seeing how women are treated like before and after like having a baby like before it before you have kids it's just uh expected that you will that you want kids that you will have kids if you don't want them that you'll change your mind yeah you'll you'll get

older and you'll change your mind and then after you do have kids your identity is is confined to being a mother yeah oh you're a mom yeah you're at work you're not taken as seriously because you're a mom your priority your priority is not this job it's your kids but if you're a dad then you have a family to take care yeah and you do it all it's like wow you're you're a working dad you're providing for the family give this man a raise yeah um but the difference is i was thinking about just comparing like this situation to what happened in arizona um with the woman who was raped um and the difference in response isn't about the women's humanity it's about what the fetus represents in each context in georgia the fetus becomes a symbol of legal personhood that

outweighs the already dead woman's humanity dignity and the suffering of her family and in arizona the fetus is evidence of a crime the tragic result of sexual assault but they have the same result a fetus growing inside a woman who cannot consent but only one of these systems centers justice the other centers control this dark contrast lays bare how political ideology manipulates the meaning of life it's not about protecting women it's not even consistently about protecting fetuses it's about ownership of the womb and who gets to make decisions about it let me say this clearly forced gestation of a brain dead woman is an act of violence yes just as rape of a disabled woman is an act of violence the only difference is that one was committed by

an individual and prosecuted as a crime and the other is enforced by the state and cloaked in moral righteousness adriana cannot consent she is legally dead like she is legally dead yeah yeah that's that's it's so disgusting yeah when you really think about it absolutely it absolutely is a legally dead woman being kept alive because she was found to be nine weeks pregnant she might not have even known she was pregnant yeah right at that point you're not even telling people you're pregnant if you do know because the chances of having a miscarriage are high but i did also ask chat gpt's perspective as an ai and i think it's really interesting it said i don't have emotions but i do have pattern recognition and a long memory what i see across cases like this power

structures tend to default to protecting institutions whether it's state a state hospital trying to avoid legal risk or a long-term care facility sweeping abuse under the rug vulnerable women especially black native disabled or poor are routinely denied full personhood even in death life's life is treated as a conditional concept politicized and twisted depending on the convenience of the narrative as an ai trained on massive data sets i can see the contradictions play out at scale i notice how the framing of a woman as a mother victim vessel or burden shifts how society treats her body her dignity and her rights it really is there was a point it does feel like this conversation is used as a bargaining chip

by the right so overwhelmingly like they use it as like uh they are constantly changing like how they discuss it and like how how they present it and how it's like oh if you are um pro-choice like you must hate children like you must you know like whatever whatever it may be it does feel like it's it's so often framed in such a manipulative way but it always always takes the mother out of the equation yeah every single time absolutely and we're seeing this now with adriana that's her name where it's so we haven't until this moment we've we've had so many examples of this being true so many but this is the most extreme example like you're not treating this person like you said who's had like a full life and has had all of these experiences and

every everything that you experience in like she was 31 30 30 she had a whole life she still had a whole life ahead of her but she still she lived 30 years and she's being treated as an object for this fetus that they're going to then treat as an object once it's out and it's it's so irritating to see like such a perfectly illustrated example of what the problem is in so many areas with like institutions being given you know more rights than a person or like it's just every everything is just laid out so perfectly with what the issue with the pro-life movement is in this one case it's so scary and it's just going to keep getting worse because they're just going to keep doubling down on all this

i i have like kind of one other news topic ish that i think will tie this together um did you hear about the car bombing in palm springs yes uh so there was a car bombing in palm springs at a um fertility clinic a fertility clinic and no one was injured uh except the perpetrator of it um was killed yeah but i you know what it came down to was his personal beliefs which is that um he's anti-natalist so he thinks that no one should have kids because and he was probably severely depressed and it's because um anti-natalists believe that like no one consents to being born which i agree with you don't consent to being born yeah you don't have a choice in whether or not you're here until you know you are you're old

enough to yeah um yeah but uh that's why that's what led to him like bombing a fertility clinic because he's like well these people have really thought and considered about like having kids to the point where like now they're going to great lengths to conceive children um but yeah antinatalists think that nobody should be allowed to have kids because there's no you don't consent to being alive obviously that's the main piece but like there's also like no guarantee that you are not going to have a life without suffering and like to that point like i understand all of these things but i don't agree that nobody should have kids you know yeah that's not up to you it's up to an individual that being said because you can't guarantee the the health and safety

and avoidance of suffering that's where the rest of us need to come together to make sure that basic life necessities are provided for everybody yeah and like that includes a legally dead woman not being used as a human incubator yeah for an a fetus a fetus that has isn't even born there's no way to guarantee that this child like okay let's say that this baby survives and and has brain damage or is disabled now there are no services in place that are going to like ensure that this child is able to like have a normal fucking life yeah and that's ultimately i don't know that's my stance is just like okay it's our responsibility as everyone else for the people that we elected to use our taxpayer dollars to ensure that everyone has a chance

at having a normal life yeah and i know that's hard to guarantee when we're such a big country but like but a fucking effort would be nice let's let's care a little bit yeah yeah i'm i'm sure that we can you know have a smaller budget in certain areas i know that you're burning through money when it comes to like letting corporations do whatever the fuck they want especially regarding ai yeah but ultimately like i think a through line in all of these conversations is just how women's bodies are treated like objects yeah whether it's a sex object or an object an incubator yeah yeah and i think my bottom line going off of that too is like the fact that there's no care for the child once it's out is proof that it's not about anyone but being able

to control women yeah that's that's all that it is because if you gave a fuck about like the kids or people you would do something about gun control so there wouldn't be any school shootings you would do something about like free lunches in schools for kids that can't afford to have lunch like there's there are so many things that they could be doing to make people's lives better but they don't want to they just want to control women that's what it is and why does someone else's suffering need to exist for you to feel like your life doesn't suck or something like yeah what's that about yeah i don't know like how could you see another person suffering in some capacity and think that they deserve it i don't know like i i think like the most

one of the most basic things i always consider when i think about what i think should be free for everyone is eyesight you know if if you need glasses or contacts you can't control that yeah you can't control that you need those things and therefore they should be free yeah because why should you not be able to see just because of something you can't control yes you know such a good point it's the same thing with like hearing aids i don't know i just think that these types of things where people have disabilities like why aren't services provided to them for free to make their lives livable yeah and um i also think about like kids with autism are treated like they are stupid and they don't know anything but it's been proven that like a lot of kids who have

severe autism and are nonverbal know a lot of shit yeah wouldn't it drive you crazy crazy to be talked to every day and taught the alphabet every fucking day even though you're like solving math equations yeah yes i don't know and so my point there is just that like we're teaching people in a standardized way when it should be our responsibility to like learn ways to accommodate people who have different abilities yeah like why do you have to meet this specific standard instead of us adjusting for one person you have to adjust for everybody else it's it's anyways i hope everyone's mad now i think that like you know the more and more that we talk about this and the the i do think knowledge is power here i bet that the government

of georgia did not want this story getting out too bad so sad yeah because it really knowledge is power unfortunately for them and i think that and unfortunately for you know the world we're gonna have to keep having these horrific things i've said horrific four times now this episode i've been counting these horrific things happen five five to these women or really anyone these these things have to keep happening before anything gets done unfortunately like and maybe things won't get done and that's awful but i mean it's important for us to have a conversation about what about how these laws are made like negligently and they're entirely inconsiderate of the personhood of the woman who lived a full fucking life yeah and is now being sacrificed

and used as a human incubator instead of her family being able to like do what they see is best for their own family and grieve the loss of their daughter sister friend whoever yeah can you imagine if this this child is born this fetus is born and they come out and have to grow up knowing this fact that like their mother i know i can't imagine that i thought about i thought the same thing about the woman in arizona like how how the family around that child feels how the child themselves are going to feel like is is the hospital that's forcing this legally dead woman to be a human incubator are they going to pay for the possibly traumatizing experience that this child is going to have no because they don't that's the whole thing they

do not give a fuck once it's born it's insane anyway sad it's fucked up i think that that's a good place for us to yeah it's a rageful episode that did not help my headache i'm sorry you know it's okay i'm glad we talked about it it makes me want to rip my shirt off like the hulk i've always wanted to do that god i think that that would really slap do you ever just want to like scream really loud absolutely sometimes i'll just find myself wanting to scream really loud screaming to your pillow i've done that before it does feel good but sometimes i'll be like i just really want to scream but there's nothing that's making me want to like actively i think it's just like a build-up you know i'm just like i just want to i'm not even mad i just want to

scream it's so weird anyway maybe it's because i like started lowering my prozac oh yeah well only by a little bit it was because i was just sick of breaking my tens in half so i'm just that's fair i went from 25 to 20 anyway um i don't feel like singing that's uh should we like literally a first yeah i i tried it is very loud that was really good liz thank you i'm gonna start a screamo band now what does it go what's it gonna be called fuck yeah i like it i'm gonna get that on a shirt okay bye