The Hoely Hour - WuThERiNg hEiGhTs

Episode Date: March 6, 2026

Wuthering is a stupid word. You know it, we know it, Margo Robbie knows it. We discuss the discource around the movie, a search engine to let you find people who look like your crush having sex, and why the straight women of the world are so hung up on Heated Rivalry. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

can i say something yeah you have a podcast bueno i'm a little cold do you want me to turn on the fire it just it's just it's not a real fire it's an illusion but it it does pump out heat oh yes then we don't have our fireplace i i think it is a real fire but it's gas it is okay i'm so jealous see i don't know i would who's who's dick do i gotta suck to get a house with a fireplace um i can think of one person and it's the man you live with oh that's so real i have like three requirements if we buy a house one of them is to have a fireplace fireplace with fire yeah fireplace with real fire not just like the vibes of essence of fire i think that this is just

like a digital screen with like light underneath it i think that's all that this is yeah my fireplace um i also really want meows to have a big window that has a lot of activity that's another one of my requirements um and uh lots of storage i think that is a beautiful list honorary mention that kind of goes along with the window for me house is just big windows i fucking love big windows yeah me too anyway nobody asked but um nobody asked most of the stuff that we talk about on the podcast that's true well that didn't that's never gonna stop us that's so true from saying whatever we want into a microphone in fact this is our second time this week talking yeah we're recording in advance because both of us are out of town next week and we haven't

had like an episode in the in the canister is that what had set the phrase an episode in the barrel i think so i don't know i don't know anything about guns episode in the wing anyway we haven't had like an episode ready um ahead of time in a while yeah because we both have full-time jobs will you guys retire us please it is tell your friends about the podcast tuesday february 24th yeah this will come out in two weeks yeah damn that's crazy and by the time you're listening to this we will have already been the wingmen on love isn't blind oh yeah i'm so fucking excited me too um it went really well i'm gonna be saying since this is everyone has fallen in love we are now ordained ministers yeah so let us know um if you want that i have

a moral question to pose to you i love that to kind of like a little um well and everything i say is right so that's exactly why i want to talk to you in particular about it also i'm saying that facetiously oh right i mean i try to be correct sometimes i say something and i'm just testing out an idea yeah and that's it's important to be able to backpedal you're an artist of thoughts if anything else I love that yeah I think I thank you yeah you're welcome okay here's my moral question I read about this um search feature that is absolutely primarily used for porn but it's there's like a like an adult version of it so you have to like toggle on porn but it's the idea of it is to look for a doppelganger for your crush or celebrity crush like somebody

that looks like somebody that you want to watch have sex which is the intention is to combat ai porn being made by showing you people who are willingly making adult films i already have several thoughts that happen to resemble somebody that you're attracted to what are your thoughts uh i think all around it's fucked up like i don't think there should be a search feature that could like scan your face and find porn stars that look like you um i don't think ai porn should exist um give that work to actual sex workers but use your fucking imagination if you have a crush on someone and you want to jerk off to your crush use your fucking imagination you don't need to look up porn i just think that obviously like screen addiction is rampant and i think that like

two things have just kind of really like they're predatory towards men and that is online gambling and porn and it's just like fucking with men's brains in so many ways and this is not to say that i think like porn is bad or wrong it's just when you understand how it can negatively impact your brain and your ability to have like a close romantic and sexual connection with your actual partner it's like not worth it in my opinion yeah so at that point i'm like just use your fucking imagination yeah are you you really can't like close your eyes and imagine it right no i completely agree i don't know get creative get off your phone yeah it see my i agree with you and also the other side of it that i feel like i can kind of jive with what this is

doing is that like there's no there's nothing being done to stop people making ai porn like without people's consent of them having sex so what's the alternative to that is giving people an option to view porn that is being made consensually as i think right so and how do you know for sure how do you know for sure it's made consensually i guess i don't know i just but also apparently like the search engine feature is really flawed like they the person that wrote the article put jeff goldblum in there and it like returned like 40 year old women so it's like you know the not working yeah it's it's already a flawed system but also like what type of fucking goon tool is this what gooner came up with this idea yeah what if how can i make jerking off to

your crush like more ethical yeah than using ai to make your crush into porn yeah i don't know close your fucking eyes and use your imagination no yeah right sorry no i you see this is why i asked you i knew that i would get a liz ball response and i wanted nothing less yeah all of you need to put down your phones there put it away back to the the thing that you were saying about porn being so predatory for like you know for men predatory toward men there were like two recent instances in the news of men that murdered young women when their computers were searched they were both i mean i'm sure this happened more than just these two times but this is just at the top of my mind they had both been consuming like very violent like non-consensual porn

yeah genres amping it up and up and up yeah and like they right they can't they can't like get off to anything other than violence really and even though there was no sexual component of either of the murders like they found that there was like the the women that had been killed weren't sexually assaulted during the murders it's still there's a sexual component of it because these they're they're not able like they're they find these things so fucking enticing and they are consuming so much of it you're just like making me really even more repulsed by men than i already am wow i did not know that i could do that i mean well the thing that's like especially repulsive to me is just like i don't know this is gonna the more i think about what

i'm trying to say the more i'm like this sounds so dumb and obvious it's just like the idea of like murder is so like repulsive to me yeah because you're like a healthy person yeah because i'm like normal yeah but i don't know i just i think that it's like even the death penalty i'm like it's i sentence you to death yeah what fucking year is this yeah we're sentencing people to death do you have the electric chair still exists in some states insane well in some states you can choose how you are yeah killed and one guy chose firing squad yeah i mean because you would traumatize the people who were doing it oh fuck i mean it is traumatizing that's how brian coberger would have been put to death if he hadn't had taken a plea deal i think people

might have liked doing that oh my god i would have signed up are you kidding do a firing squad yeah and i'm against the death penalty but fucks i mean there are some people that i would love to see go out and there's also even though murder is repulsive to me there is i think probably in every every person in practice i can't like fathom actually doing something like terrible and horrible to another person like that right but there is something sadistic in me that's like no we need to find a way to like really draw out that they're suffering and torture until they die right and then there are laws against that so it's not like torturing them i'm like can we give them a disease yeah no for sure no i completely agree biological warfare on pedophiles and murderers

like the death penalty like the um lethal injection has gone wrong so often that they had to like rewrite how they do them that's horrifying because like having somebody be in pain when they die is against the law but killing them isn't is just wild to me and this is also like operating under the assumption that the way we practice law is perfect and it's not true like a lot of people end up in jail who are innocent there are a few people recently that have been put to death that have clearly not they did not get the like fair trials yeah they're deserved people are flawed so inevitably our justice system will be flawed because not a single human on the face of the planet is perfect or does everything perfectly and is born just knowing everything the idea of

a jury trial is crazy to me like just 12 people that like needed to take off work for this or like determining whether or not this person's going to jail crazy crazy that's i was thinking about that the whole time i was on jury duty i was like why do i why why am i being trusted with this and it had to be unanimous because it was a murder trial so like like what do you mean i'm like i have to i have to say yes like i'm a regular person like yeah uh it was like 25 everyone has to be in agreement yeah it was traumatizing we all like still got brunch and shit for like months after that because we were also like there's way too many there's way too many flaws agreed way too many flaws anyway so that was my little brain teaser to start off the episode a fun little

fun little moral dilemma yeah I feel like this episode is just gonna be it's gonna turn into me ranting about things same well because the main thing the main thing I had told Amelia that I wanted to talk about was this one's for the girls Wuthering Heights I know not a single thing about this so I have many thoughts on Wuthering Heights because listen I was gonna keep all this to myself but there's so much discourse about Wuthering Heights and I finally was like fine I'll share my opinion I've been while you're pulling up your notes I've been seeing some stuff about Alex Earl and Jacob Elordi at whatever I don't know anything about Alex Earl oh I'm like are they together because I've been seeing their names pop up a lot I mean she was

with Tom Brady like two weeks ago good for her honestly like if you can't if you got it flaunt it but I want to know I need the tea can I say something yeah you have a podcast even though I don't even though i don't know very much about alex earl i think that i think that's like part of the thing like i there's nothing about her that i'm like that seems interesting yeah i don't know she's just like a little blonde girl yeah she's a hot blonde girl that doesn't get ready with me it's yeah she has gamed the system so perfectly yeah i don't know i don't think there's anything like particularly like enticing about that isn't that amazing though that she has gone this far with nothing enticing just that's what you being hot and blonde will get you but and rich and she's

also very smart she went to university of miami see that's cool yeah the hot thing i'm like yeah she's she's pretty but so many other people are more hot and more interesting yeah that i don't know the the i'm just like i don't really get it the almighty algorithm and that's fine i don't anyway not for me but yeah okay thoughts on weathering weathering heights what weathering i don't know if i i feel like when i say it comes out like weathering but it's weathering yeah and i just hate that word what weathering heights what does that mean womp weathering i don't know i always lost meaning i always get the little red thing under it oh it's not a real word i don't know oh hey computer

to me this is kind of a two-pronged conversation because there is a lot of like the literary girlies are like really hyper focused on how the movie this new movie directed by emerald fennel is not true to the book um there are more than 30 versions of weathering heights that have been turned into movies oh my god yeah more than 30 like both that i've aired in theaters and like um our television movies or whatever there there's more than 30 holy shit um so from the literary perspective i'm gonna preface this by saying i have i have not read the book i've not read wuthering heights i've only read the spark notes it's one of those things that i was like i'm not reading this um and i understand the book is supposed to be making fun of traditional

romance novels of the time so it's like it's considered more of like a gothic horror romance like it's not it's not a true romance okay it's very miserable and depressing and toxic and they're the main story is not the main the main two characters are heathcliff and kathy okay and in the book um it doesn't only focus on heathcliff and kathy's story it goes beyond um to like their children and like the story between like the children of this this book is heathcliff a first name yes stupid i don't know if it's the first name in the book but um in the book um heathcliff is a person of color and that has also been like a point of contention among people online that jacob lordy was cast as heathcliff you know he's a white guy that's fair um and it's

important in the book because it influences how he's treated by some of the other characters and presumably it's why kathy is like i can't be with heathcliff because he's poor and he's brown um okay and people are upset that the movie was not true to the book and that it depicts it as a romance and that heathcliff is not white so those are all of the kind of conversations that are happening from like the literary perspective but i'm going to kind of talk more about the movie piece of it okay because i'll say from the beginning the movie is different from the book like in the book there kathy has a brother there's no brother at all in this version um in the book heathcliff is he's like adopted into this family kind of and he's treated as the

favorite child but in this the dad treats everyone like shit okay um and in this adaption i listen i'm gonna say and i'm not saying this is right but in this adaption i don't think heathcliff's race makes a difference to the story because they like don't go anywhere else and they don't engage with other people so it doesn't really impact the story at all but um i don't think that is a defense because it there's still an underrepresentation of people of color in like the lead love interest roles yeah um and then there are two people of color in the cast but it feels almost like an afterthought so there's two people of color in supporting roles um Nellie and linton so nelly is like we don't fully get her backstory but in the movie she is um

a bastard child who is living with this family um and is like a housekeeper and we can assume that her dad is paying kathy's dad to keep her in the house um and the other person of character Linton is who Kathy ends up marrying okay um and it seems kind of like I get the impression that like Emerald Fennell just like really wanted to cast Margot Robbie and Jacob Elordi as the main two love interests but she knew she would get backlash for Heathcliff being white so she was like I'm gonna put I'm gonna make this colorblind and put two people of color in these supporting roles so it just didn't really feel like i don't know it just felt kind of like disingenuous yeah that's but these actors did still do an amazing job right um but

i just wanted to acknowledge that like i think that's fair criticism yeah um side note real quick i just have to share this because i just realized i was like why do i fucking hate the name heathcliff so much and it's because heath bar and cliff bar yeah heathcliff heathcliff heathbar cliffbar uh you would hate the book because everybody has like the same fucking name oh the same three names heathcliff linton kathy katherine like kathy is also just like heathcliff and kathy like they don't even sound good to get like i don't know anyway i'm hung up on this name um continue so nelly is like a housekeeper and my interpretation is she constantly has felt like left out and rejected so some of the other criticism people have had is about like the

casting with these two people of color as the supporting characters is they're saying that these people are cast as villains i'm sorry i have to vehemently disagree with that like if you're watching this movie and you think that nelly and linton are villains you're like i don't know what fucking movie you're watching because if you think they're villains and heathcliff and kathy are the heroes i think you need to go to therapy and you need to consider like am i a self-centered person because kathy margot robbie does an amazing job of being absolutely insufferable she is like petulant self-centered um mean like she just will say like really cruel things kind of out of nowhere to people and i think she did a great job being like so fucking annoying and

hateable she was really funny though is this is this a period piece like does it um it's not like accurate that's another thing that people are upset about it's not like they're wearing like historically accurate costumes okay um so such a nerdy thing to be on about yes and i think it's a pretty dumb take just because like i don't think nelly is a villain whatsoever even though it's like basically nelly's quote fault that kathy and heathcliff do not end up together um i i think that nelly was like left out and verbally abused and the few times that she kind of like gets a lick in i'm like i'm rooting for her i'm like yeah they're fucking mean to her good for her yeah um and then linton is so nice he's a someone was like he's a controlling husband

and he's not at all he's so nice and he's a fucking cuck so people think that he's controlling why because he tells Kathy not to see she uh Nellie tells we can assume Nellie tells Linton that Kathy has been banging Heathcliff so he's like I don't want you to see him anymore okay and he also doesn't have like a lot of gumption about it when he's saying that so I thought that was kind of a stretch that's so interesting because I do feel like when like you know the whole like early 2000s like late 90s movies of like there's somebody in a perfectly fine relationship but you're rooting for the main character to like get the girl at the end so everybody demonizes the guy that she's with even though he's like perfectly fine

is it one of those things like people are rooting for no i don't this movie is so like so i haven't really got into like the overall vibe of the movie people are like it's it's smooth brain Wuthering Heights it's like not accurate to the book I just gotta say at no point does this movie seem like it's trying to be the book it is incredibly campy everything about it is campy the acting is campy um it's it's hilarious it has a lot of dry humor it has these like outrageous gorgeous sets and costumes and like even the music it all of the music is produced by Charlie XCX I was gonna say like this movie is not trying to be like the book so the fact that people like wanted it to be like true to the book I'm like at what point did you think this movie was gonna be

like the book because they made it pretty obvious from the beginning it it didn't want to be like the book people get so sensitive about their books not being done well like or like something being incorrect like the whole thing with there being like black elves in lord of the rings or like the hobbit people were like no that doesn't make any sense because like in the book they like talk about them being so white and like that just doesn't make sense for them to have like any sort of skin like melanin yeah but it's like people get so up in arms about shit when it's just like if it's obvious that they're taking liberties relax yeah you know what i mean yeah i don't know well so i'll just talk more about like the the campiness of the movie everything about its camp

um and its camp in a self-aware way like at no point did i get the impression that this movie was trying to be some kind of true adaption of the book and in many ways it seems like it's making fun of the book and making fun of the past interpretations of Heathcliff being a heartthrob and calling like people thinking that they're soulmates because the book itself is not like a like these two characters are obsessive and like controlling and cruel and everyone's miserable in this book so I think that like the reason this movie is so campy is because like it's funny to make a crazy colorful horny dry humor movie of a miserable and depressing book like how can i make this like so far opposite while also making fun of it it seemed very self-aware kind of in

the way that poor things is um where i mean poor things have you seen poor things but i know i know yeah they're they're like making a very obvious satire of the born sexy yesterday trope and it ends up being like kind of a beautiful story about like self-discovery and empowerment but that's kind of secondary to making fun of this trope right and it is really outrageous and then it had the it had a similar reaction where people are like can we talk about how fucked up it is that they put a baby's brain in this adult woman's body and then she's like having sex that's like that's disgusting and it's like well that's the point yeah good job you're supposed to be like like they're making fun of that trope of born sexy yesterday right um so i think like it could

have i think if it had gone in a little bit harder on being camp maybe it would have been more like under people would understand it's supposed to be campy on purpose yeah back to linton um him being kind of uh a cuck he he's not a villain at all he's not controlling even at the end he like meets heathcliff with kindness like he he's just very loving i don't know i thought he was a good guy um and then i think the main character or not the main character i think the real villain is kathy um that's what it sounds like and i think it would be heathcliff but here's my like note for how heathcliff was portrayed i think everyone just wanted him to be like a big hunky heartthrob because it's jacob lordy and he's like six five or whatever but i think he would be so kathy and

heathcliff are supposed to be the main villains but it's mostly kathy because jacob lordy's portrayal of heathcliff was a little too like frankenstein gentle giant when he needed to be a little bit more like psychopath nate jacobs i think i would have been like fully bought in on heathcliff if he was like scary psychopath and jacob elordi really does do that so well yeah exactly we've seen him do it yeah so maybe he was just getting off of frankenstein or i don't know what his direction was like how how to portray but like in the movie they kept saying like he has a terrible temper and blah blah blah and we don't really see any of that i'm like make this guy crazy make him mean if i don't know if we want to if we really want them to be so insufferable

but like some people are crying at the end some people do interpret this as a love story to me my interpretation of it is like may this type of love never find me yeah like that like sure you do want the two main characters to be together because like they're literally like the most insufferable couple you've ever met like you know the type of couple that keeps breaking up and getting back together and then like you're hanging out with this friend and all she wants to talk about is her like on and off again ex-boyfriend yeah you're like do you have a personality outside of your obsession with this guy who it like doesn't wash his sheets is also upset i don't know i see what you mean i want to say like no sport like i'm

spoiling it or whatever but this book has been out for like a really fucking long time yeah um and i don't think this is different in the book or the movie well i know it's not um kathy like is in love with heathcliff but she gets proposed to by linton and linton is rich her rich guy neighbor she marries linton and heathcliff like when he hears this disappears he like runs away for a year or maybe more maybe five years i don't know he's gone for a while and then he comes back one day and he's rich and he does all this as like a big fuck you to kathy and that's some crazy person shit yeah to be like i'm so upset about this that i'm gonna go like double down on getting revenge on you instead of like have a conversation yeah but it

is kind of like revenge body coded you know yeah yeah if you're gonna be bettering yourself then like what's wrong with it and in the movie he has like a gold tooth and a gold earring and when we left mr liz was like that gold tooth was kind of sick and i was like are you gonna start getting are you gonna wear a gold tooth and a gold earring now which is also kind of like pirate coated yeah it absolutely i'm like people are gonna think you're a pirate and not like yeah you gotta get a ponytail jacob lordy is heathcliff yeah so pirate i don't know those are my notes on the movie um now i need to see it it's still in theaters yeah it's a super fun movie i thought it was really fun the literary girls are like pissed that it's not like a accurate adaption but i

also i'm just like what makes you think that emerald fennel who directed salt burn and um what's that movie about the girl who like wears wigs and like entraps men who are trying to be predatory oh promising young yes promising young woman like those two movies like you know her directorial style like yeah why would she ever do a historical literary accurate adaption promising young woman was like Wuthering Heights was like a like inspo for like our early branding of this podcast you remember yeah um will you look at the Rotten Tomatoes of Wuthering Heights uh I'm sure it's I want to know the popcorn meter and the tomato meter I need to know both popcorn meter is what the audience thought and tomato meters critics uh tomato meter 59 popcorn meter 77

oh that's surprising i expected critic scores to be higher than audience scores based on the discourse they could have called it something else i think that was fair feedback that like they didn't have to call it weathering heights and people wouldn't be so like butthurt that is not like the book yeah but then i feel like people would be like wait this is like kind of similar to weather like they're like there are some similarities here like they could have still like taken yeah some liberties by yeah inspired by like how she's the man is inspired by a shakespeare play yeah exactly yeah you see emerald fennel should have asked us is that her name emerald fennel yeah she's literally no i don't know green green fennel

which is a vegetable yeah emerald fennel that's a crazy name i wonder if that's like her director name maybe or her real name would you ever go by like a like a ghost name ghost a ghost name absolutely ghostwriter name no that's not even what i'm trying to say a pen name a pen name yeah yeah do you know what it would be no i want to think on that i want to like come together with with good pen names actually let's try pen names for each other okay cool okay um mr mr liz the other day he was like he was like uh if we got married and changed our last name like to something else entirely what do you think it would be and then i was like maybe a combination of our last names or something and then i was like what would you pick or or like something else entirely yeah

have to think about it and then i was like what would you pick and he was like uh well it would have to be bean so we could be mr and mrs bean oh my god i love that that was really funny he would be the new mr bean he always calls me miss bean that's so cute he comes home and he's like miss bean that is so cute or or pachuti frank doesn't have any nicknames for me it's not fucked up it they come with time it's been three years what do you like how much more time do i have to wait another three get more like fucking you get more and more over time they they change variations he'll come upstairs and say babe and that's the extent of nicknames otherwise it's just amelia i start demanding them i have i've been demanding him to call me something

since like three months into the relationship and i feel like i'm just shit out of luck it's just like it's not in his can you imagine him calling me a pet name it doesn't feel like something he would do a little i don't know he's a creative guy yeah i mean anyway just airing out my creative nickname yeah i believe in him he just has to call me it enough where it sticks well does mr liz seem like a nickname guy yes absolutely what really yes what about him seems like a nickname i think that it's just because i know that you guys have so many isms together that's true yeah we do call each other a lot of different things you call each other a lot of different things and you have different names for a lot of different things so like

it makes sense bean lingo yeah bingo yeah it's only been 35 minutes i know that's insane oh my god can we pump 10 more minutes out or something yeah um do you want to talk about heated rivalry thing yeah i thought that was kind of so i amelia uh graciously let me talk at her um i will say it was the most relaxing part of my day was crocheting and like listening to liz read me this article i was yeah i was reading it was a very long article so i had come across this article earlier today uh and it's on vulture and it's called girls who love boys who love boys by e alex jung um it's a very long article so i won't be reading it um and the tweet of it of course of course fuck you twitter fuck twitter oh ps john oliver did a really good thing on twitter this week

oh yeah you should watch that out everyone listening should watch it um so the tweet about it um is called it says like did the sight of shane and ilia kissing and heated rivalry awaken a libidinal desire inside you is this you i can't actually figure out what's happening to me i'm just having a midlife crisis where i'm like i'm never going to feel these feelings again you're not alone hear from women for joining out the gay men calling them out for it game changers author rachel reed and more in e alex jung's investigation into why so many women are losing their minds over gay romance um so it's i mean the tweet was basically or the article is about like the phenomenon of straight women who absolutely love heated rivalry and the article itself is very

fascinating um you can get a free trial of vulture but i the reason it came across my feet is because someone reposted it the the repost said this genuinely must be how it feels to live in a historic neighborhood that just opened a millennial millennial owned smash burger bar and grill um and this tweet this repost said i hate these dumb ass takes written by people who don't understand shit why do women get ostracized for liking things all the time mind you like 85 percent of the women watching heated rivalry are queer so you're asking why queer people love queer stories do you realize how stupid that is and to that i say it's very obvious that you have not read this article yeah seriously because at no point in this article is it criticizing straight women for

liking this gay romance no um it's explaining kind of like the history of um like fan fiction type writing that uh rewrites these like love stories to be between male characters which is kind of how like i mean heated rivalry the the game changers book reads a little bit like fan fiction and as someone who consumes a lot of romance slop like yeah i get it like to me i like even just watching heated rivalry i was like oh i'm totally getting that this is from like a romance type fan fiction book yeah because i've read those right um and i thought what was especially fascinating in this article i took a screenshot of it um and i'm just gonna read part of it real quick heated rivalry met us at a very unsexy time in our lives we've been told the kids

are scared of sex marvel films have turned hollywood sexuality into an aesthetic without eroticism however it may be more accurate to say that heteroromance wasn't doing it for some people anymore that it's harder to suspend disbelief in a post me too post row epstein filed manosphere poisoned real world where heterosexual male has where heterosexual male power has no bounds that a straight man would know how to communicate his desires and ask about yours to say i like you i want this to happen does this feel good while also being hot and laying down pipe would feel too far-fetched if romance is an escape from your problems why read about straight men put another way male male romance is a genre solution to the problem of heterosexual men the rise of monster

smut is a tandem attempt to sidestep straight men by turning the beast love interest into a living breathing sex toy my colleague emily gold tells me romance readers are mostly women and with male male romance there can be enjoyment without fear there is no forced identification with a female character there is no bechdel test to fail no humiliation to endure no experience or body to match up against one's own it allows the pleasures of romance it's it stutters and starts and total incandescence to unfold in a pure uncut state when i read straight romances sometimes it takes me out of the story because i'm like no straight man will ever do this most straight men are not going to stand up with their stand up to their friends when their friends are being jerks says joanna

a longtime reader of romance novels with male male romances obviously i can't relate but the romance is stronger why not take men out of the equation entirely and write about a woman only utopia straight women are much more likely to read a book about two men who they could conceivably be attracted to than two women who they are not says leah koch owner of the romance bookstore at the ripped bodice the reason some queer women have found themselves drawn to male male over female female romance are not so different fantasies about sex between two women still have the ick of the male gaze i think it's mostly internalized misogyny says farrah um so that's that's the screenshot i took but i think that is like the general encapsulation of why straight women have

been so like obsessed with heated rivalry because some people have speculated like oh it's because of the yearning which is i think kind of like a simplified version of what i just read yeah like it's true like the yearning of it all like does feel so powerful like i i'm someone who loves to yearn i really do and um it's hard to yearn for someone that you are already like so in love with yeah and like in a safe relationship with like yearning just has like a different type of like tickle to it you know yeah there's kind of like something fun and fantastical about yearning so i think when you are reading like a romance whether it's like a fantasy romance or fan fiction or whatever like it kind of reignites that feeling yeah absolutely you know I think

that this whole thing too is really like there's something about putting them I'm speaking specifically from like the perspective of heated rivalry because I think that there's a lot to be said about like consuming this kind of media in general like male-male relationships but specifically for heated rivalry I think what did it for me because I've been thinking a lot about this and I'm like why why was I why am I so like turned on by this story I think that it's a big piece of it was them being in the positions like publicly that they were in and both of them having separate reasons for it not needing like it needed to knock it out and the secret of that yeah and like the I do love a little a little secret romance too it was so drawn out it happened over

years like they didn't see each other for years they were like kind of fucking with each other for years where they like would hook up and then just like not talk again for a few you know like there's just so many pieces of it that were like the yearning is so sexy that's happening between the two of them that like is and and it had been positioned in a way that was done so like you're rooting for them even though like you know that it's something that could like potentially like fuck with their lives if it got out and like they wanted it so badly even though it was like you know going to you know quote-unquote ruin their lives or ruin their career so I don't know I think that there's just how it was written I think from a storytelling

perspective feels like it transcends gender or orientation yeah from the from the viewer's perspective yeah I mean that's how I it it felt to me too I wasn't really like thinking about like this is two men yeah like it was just a relationship yeah you know kind of that's also how i felt like i think that um the relationship in uh schitt's creek the gay relationship in schitt's creek with with david and i'm forgetting his husband's name but um like that was the first time we got to watch a a gay character or like a gay relationship unfold on our screens where it's not like some like sad drawn out like tragedy you know that used to be kind of like the only way that people were telling gay stories and gay

romance stories is like it always needs to be sad and depressing and like you can't have like an accepting family and like be happy in your sexuality you know what i mean yeah so i i mean i understand that in this show it is different like they need to stay closeted for their own purposes but also at the end of the day like i like i don't know it made me so emotional when they like kissed on the eyes oh my god kip and uh yeah i'm forgetting their names kip and i don't remember his name either kip and pretty boy that side that side story was my most favorite thing of yeah like my most favorite story that i've seen in a very long time yeah fucking loved it well and i know some of the feedback for heated rivalry from um gay men has been like this is not

how gay relationships yeah i saw attention that was like this is a lesbian relationship yeah this is how lesbians are yeah well there was also like i i was seeing this everywhere where people were saying the author of the original book game changers is a lesbian she is not right she's not married to a man yeah she's married to a man don't know if she's queer yeah um but yeah married to a man has kids with man knows a lot about hockey yeah loves hockey yeah um but yeah I thought like that was such a fascinating like insight on why so many straight women just really love heated rivalry and I think it makes a lot of sense of like okay these are these are two men I can conceivably be attracted to and also it's taking out me having to like feel like I need to

compare myself to a female lead yeah um it takes away like the unbelievability of a straight man like being emotionally aware and communicating that in a romantic way because like true that does not happen I mean sure maybe in some ways and sometimes but yeah yeah I thought that was fascinating my original thought when I was when I was just reading the headline and reading that tweet it made me think about like when um i don't know if you remember this but when uh orange is the new black when they had ruby rose when they casted ruby rose in like the final season or something straight women around the world were freaking out there was a there was an article someone wrote about how like seeing ruby rose on their screen like made them start to question

their sexuality because they were so attracted to her yeah and like to me i thought i just thought that was really funny that people were just having like a crisis about how attracted to ruby rose they were even though they identified as straight i'm like it's okay to just think a girl is hot yeah right and it's also okay to not be straight yeah they're like whoa wait yeah hold on what's this feeling in my pants the feeling is bisexuality yeah you might be a little gay as a treat as a treat yeah in this day and age you got to be a little gay if you're not you're homophobic yeah as our friend says i looked up that quote on on google recently to see if it's from somewhere no it was just him he's just like that he's just he's just like that it's like if you're not a

little gay you're homophobic yeah and it's true i i yeah i co-sign that hello anyway we're both hungry and tired yeah i'm starving i just should ravenous like my body weight before liz got here i think that that was my first time really shitting since i was in mexico completely emptied out yeah so now you're starving i'm really hungry and my blood sugar's low oh man i'm gonna pass out right here on the podcast well and not to talk too much about our bowel movements but amelia was saying when she shits she gets a stomach ache i get nauseous like very nauseous yeah whereas i'm the opposite like my stomach will hurt because i need to poop right my stomach will hurt because i have to poop and then it'll hurt after for a while it doesn't

hurt mine doesn't usually hurt after unless i like i'm sick i'm so jealous yeah i feel joy when i poop i feel joy during the process and then after i'm like i'm going to die when your stomach already when it hurts so bad and you're like god i just know i need to shit and then it finally happens it's so freeing it really is yes sex is great but have you ever pooped with ibs anyway would you like to sing us out transcend i'm like a bird um on your car in your house it took me a second to remember how our little outro goes should i try and do something crazy do something fucking go fucking buck wild i'm gonna do slam poetry we love you our children

that was beautiful i feel inspired i feel inspired i feel like i could have done it a little bit more emphatically no you know what it inspired me to get like an undercut we oh love you fuck our children there was body movement in that we just the camera i think you could feel it you could hear the body movement no i think that i know for a fact that they did yeah i talk a lot with my hands but i especially did it in my slam poetry just now Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh.