The Home Service Expert Podcast - Adopting An Athlete’s Mindset To Keep Your Business Growing Consistently

Episode Date: September 29, 2020

Chad Peterman is the host of the Can’t Stop the Growth Podcast. He is the president of Peterman Heating, Cooling, and Plumbing Inc., a family-owned, full-service HVAC & Plumbing company mainly focused on residential service, installation & repair, located in Indiana. The business has 130 employees, and did $21 million in sales in 2019. It was recognized as the 2019 Residential Contractor of the Year by Plumbing & Mechanical. In this episode, we talked about HVAC, plumbing, management, real estate, property management...

My belief is that culture is something most people think it is those things. The games, the, hey, we do fun stuff. And to me, it's much more than that. It's something that your culture is something that needs to be worked on every single day. It's not always all those things. They are a part of it, for sure. Yeah, we do fun things. We have outings.

We have fun games, celebrate birthdays, all of that. But to me, the culture is, like you said, it's communication and it's compassion. And compassion in that your people need to know that you care about them. A mentor of mine once gave me a tip that I try to practice. I fail some mornings, but I write three to five thank you notes to our staff every morning, handwritten thank you notes, and I send them to their house. And it may seem like a small and insignificant, but there's always people doing a great job. And a lot of times we fail to acknowledge those people. And so that has been a practice that I've done for about a year now and just really love it. It's a

lot of fun. To me, that's the biggest part of culture is when people know that you care, they'll run through walls for you. Welcome to the Home Service Expert, where each week, Tommy chats with world-class entrepreneurs and experts in various fields, like marketing, sales, hiring, and leadership, to find out what's really behind their success in business. Now, your host, the home service millionaire, Tommy Mello. Welcome back to the Home Service Expert. My name is Tommy Mello, and today I have a guest visiting us from Indianapolis, Indiana. He's got a very successful HVAC company. His name is Chad Peterman, and I'm going to do a quick intro. He's HVAC plumbing

management, real estate property management based out of Indiana. Peterman Heating, Cooling, and I'm going to do a quick intro. He's HVAC Plumbing Management, Real Estate Property Management based out of Indiana. Peterman Heating, Cooling, and Plumbing Incorporated, President from 2016 to now, Operations Manager from 2011 to 2016. He also is the Principal in JCM Real Estate Investments and Beast Performance Owner from 2013 to 2015. He's got quite a few friends on LinkedIn and here's some impressive accomplishments. Like I said, he's the president of Peterman heating, cooling, and plumbing, a family owned full service HVAC and plumbing company focused primarily on residential service, installation, and repair. They grew their business over the decades now with 130 employees at a 21 million in sales last year, a 30% increase year over year. The company has two

other locations in central Indiana and was awarded or honored as the 2019 residential contractor of the year by Plumbing and Mechanical. He's a host of Can't Stop the Growth podcast. And it sounds like you can't stop the growth. 30% year on year, congratulations. Appreciate you coming on, Chad. Yeah, no problem. Thanks for having me. Excited to kind of share what we've learned over the years and what we try to implement day in, day out,

as the podcast says, with a focus on growing our people, which then grow our company. Yeah, you know, I was on a podcast yesterday and he said, what's the most important thing? And I said, the process in which you get the people and the way you nurture the people, because the people fix everything. And we're going to talk a lot about that today. But what I like to do is you played, it looks like you played college football. You've been running the family business. Talk to me a little bit about where you've been, where you're going, and the future plans of what you got going on for yourself. Yeah, for sure. So I started always around the family business growing up. After college,

I graduated college in 2009. Then I took some advice from a number of family friends was to kind of go do my own thing. And so I took a job at a college. I moved down to Charlotte, North Carolina. I was there for almost exactly two years before moving home. The family business was just heating at the time and really wasn't something that I was super interested in. And I think the reason being is not super mechanically inclined. That kind of scared me. And I think what kind of kept me away is that, you know, I'm not really good at what dad was good at. Who started the company, but decided to come back in 2011 and really just kind of jumped right in.

I didn't really have a quote unquote position, but just tried to learn as many things as I could. From there, we kind of grew progressively, adding more people here and there. When I started, I think I was employee number 21 or 22. And from there, we just picked up and learned as much as possible. We joined Nexstar in 2015, and from about that point on, we've grown about 30% every single year. It's exciting, and as I said at the outset, really, when our growth started to really take off was when we had an increased focus on growing our people, whether that be leadership, skills in the field, or just them personally. You know, we have a big mantra around here is better people make better Peterman employees. And so we have a really strict hiring criteria on what we're doing. And we're just about three months out from starting our own school, the Peterman Top Tech Academy, where we'll bring in and train our own people before they head out in the

field. So a lot of exciting stuff on the horizon and very fortunate enough to work with just some tremendously talented people here on our team. So you got his mom and dad and your brother. Tell me who is the family, if you could. I want to hear more. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. So funny story about that. My dad started in the industry. He graduated technical school in 1980. He was actually just telling the story the other day. And during 1980, there's a recession going on.

And so he's knocking on literally every heating company's door looking for a job. All of them telling him or asking him, hey, do you have any experience? And his answer was, no, I'm trying to get experience. So finally found a job, took off. Very familiar story for those heating guys, I'm sure, where you're in a truck and all of a sudden the owner throws the keys to you and the clipboard and says, hey, you're running service calls today. So that's how he kind of cut his teeth getting started, then went out on his own.

He went out on his own in 1986. As my mom tells it, while she was six months pregnant with me, dad came home and said that he was going to start his own business. They actually, as luck would have it, celebrated their 36th wedding anniversary yesterday. So she stuck with him all those years. And then my brother, who's also in the company is three years younger than I am primarily I serve as the president overseeing the operations his specialty is really on the operations side so anything on the HVAC install side or the sewer and excavation install he oversees all of that work that we do. So one of my core values is aspire to be number one. It's the second one there. And I got to tell you that athletes are the people I search for. There's something about

the competitive advantage. It's somebody that wants to be number one. I always say there's two types of people in this world, those who need to be number one and those who hate to be last. And those people sit there in the chair. We have KPIs that we go over every day, every week, every month, every quarter, every year. And they sit there and they go, phew, thank God I'm not the last one. And then I got the people that are number two and they're like beating up the chair. They hate it. They lost. They're not number one, you know, shake and bake. So I've always learned to really find athletes that care that want to win. And it sounds like you were an athlete. I mean, a college athlete is a huge accomplishment. Tell me a little bit about your mentality. Does that ring a bell or does that

head home for you? Or what would you say about the people that you've been around for the last few years in the business? Yeah, I couldn't agree more. We were actually just having a similar conversation yesterday. We're working with some of our younger guys in the plumbing business, your drain technicians, the guys who are out there clearing drains, or usually your younger guys, your apprentice-type guys. And we had them in for an exercise, and we were really trying to get to the root of, a lot of these guys are under 25, super young, and we're trying to get to the root of a lot of these guys are under 25 super

young and we're trying to get to the root of what motivates them what is it that drives them so that they're wanting to achieve more wanting to get more spiffs each week what is it and so what we did is we did an exercise where we put up pieces of paper around the around the training room and we had each of them go to the sheet of paper. And we said, write down all your goals, just write them down, whatever it is. It can be as silly as getting a new pair of shoes or being a father one day or buying a house or whatever it is, just write them all down, write down all your goals. And we're standing there and a lot of us, you know, a lot of my managers are super motivated and driven and all of this. And these guys are standing there and they can't write anything on the paper. They're just sitting there dumbfounded. And so we kind of say, well, guys, how can we help? Can we and I think I took it from, you know, your point about being an athlete is where I learned to set goals, where I learned to that aspire to be number

one was through athletics. I mean, my brother and I played sports from when we were, shoot, could barely walk four or five on up through college. And that was always something that was ingrained in us. And I think we took for granted. And I think sometimes as leaders, we have to understand that there may be people on our team that have never been taught that. And so we wonder what motivates them. And as leaders, we have to dig in and find out what does motivate these people. And then how do we inspire that through them? Because everybody's motivated by something different. But I think to your point, finding athletes, that's already been ingrained in them from

the word jump. Because you don't start out a sports season just going out there for fun. There's a scoreboard. And everybody knows who wins and who loses. And finding those people is key. But then I think on the flip side of that, if you have people that aren't from that background, okay, well, we got to do, we got to dig in and do some real work with them so that we can get everybody on the same page.

Yeah. You know, you remind me of a story. I used to make everybody write their numbers on the whiteboard. Now we project them on there and makes it quicker. But I used to draw an unhappy red face and a happy black face, you know, at the black marker. And I go, this side, and this is really bad. This was a poor leadership decision. But I said, these are the losers of the week, and these are the winners of the week. And my guy Steve was talking to, I got a bunch of trainees here,

and he said, Tommy, he goes, I remember when I had to come write my name down on the red side. And he goes, I never wanted to be a loser again. And now he's one of my best performers. And the difference is, is he had a will to be number one. And I'm going to tell you how important it is to find out the people before you hire them. I would love to spend years caressing. I took a guy for seven years and now he's one of my top guys, but I don't have seven years. Yeah. I love to help people.

But now what I like to do is find an eight and make him a 10. Don't find a four and try to make him a seven. Cause that takes years. You can't teach him eye contact, body language. Self. I love myself. mean I literally I don't have any emotional where I'm just like broken and it's trust me I have compassion for everybody in this world I really do but I can't save everybody for the the rate I want to grow so let me ask you a question about that because

how do you filter the people how How do you make sure you're getting the right people on the bus? Yeah. So I mentioned earlier, we're starting our own academy where we're going to teach people the technical piece of our business, whether it be heating or plumbing. And I think for years we've made the mistake of when you don't have the back end to train your people correctly. Everybody says they do training. Well, having a vendor in once a month is not training. That's lip service to training. And so what we realized was that our lack of training was really hurting our recruiting because we're sitting in an interview and we're sitting with the guy who, well, I think

I want to get into something mechanical, or I think I want to get into the trade. And what we were getting with that guy was not a guy who could talk to people, the body language, like you said, the eye contact, all of those skills and traits that are inherent in someone being successful in our industry when it comes to dealing with homeowners and customers and finding solutions and presenting options for their problems. And so that need to find somebody who is interested in the trades or the technical piece, we're able to look for those people. And literally, we're basically saying, we get it. You don't have any technical background. That's actually awesome. We're looking for these skills. And so I take a lot of our stuff from Patrick Lencioni, where he, in the ideal team player, says hungry, humble, smart. That's what we're looking for. We're

looking for those three key traits in the people that we hire and we'll train the technical piece. But if you have those three things, we can work with you and we can turn you into something. That's, I think, someone who's the eight that you were talking about. They have those three traits and that's really what we're looking for. I love people that could tell me a good story. When I sit down in an interview and they're smiling, there's eye contact and they do have goals. And there's certain people and the HR department wouldn't enjoy this, but young, willing, and able, right? Young, willing, able. Take these millennials that everybody hates, find out what they want, give them a why.

I do this. How much do you want to make this year? I'm going to show you some simple math. I'm going to take what you want to make this year. We're going to divide it into, let's say you work 49 weeks this year, and we just teach them, this is what you need to do. Here's what I do. The first thing is move up from a junior tech to a tech to a senior tech, get that higher percentage. And then I explain to them conversion rate, what you need. And I tell them how to win the game. And I feel like a lot of companies, they just don't teach people how to win the game. They say, come in here, follow my best guy who, by the way, rolls his eyes at every meeting and says, uh, the manager is a non happy person or whatever. And I just think that's a big mistake.

I think we have an LMS. Now we have, here's the difference. We are recruiters now. I give $1,500 to all my employees. We've got to recognize, I told these guys today, there's, I was doing an orientation of 20 guys. And I said, listen, every time you're at a restaurant, you see an amazing bus point. Every time the FedEx man comes up with a big smile and he's telling you a story, you guys make 1,500 bucks. The way I see it, each one of you guys could get two guys a month. That's $18,000 on top of what you make. Always be recruiting. Forget always be closing. Always be recruiting. And the people, this is crazy. Let me just share something with you real quick and it's going to go quick. I'm just going to do the math real quick. We don't need to follow

along for the listeners, but you got a CSR that's taking 20 calls a day. One of them's at a 60% booking rate. One of them's at a 90% booking rate. Your average ticket's $500. You know what the difference is in 300 days of business? $900,000 for that one CSR who's 30% better at booking the calls. That is mind numbing and that's how important great people are. And I'm going to stress this, is find the best, inspect what you expect and have goals for them. And I think it's so important from every aspect, from the CSR, the dispatcher to the tech, to the sales guys. And the sales guys are usually the guys going out there doing bids and have a hierarchy to give them a career. And when I talk to these guys, when I'm getting my haircut, I go, you are so awesome.

You would be so amazing at the job because guess what? My CSRs on average are making $28 an hour because they get paid for call book, attendance, empathy, and data integrity. Meaning they took down the street instead of Avenue. They repeated it.

And I said, you should come work for me and we will have an amazing time. And I'm just stressing the point that I said to these guys, as I walked out, I said, if you don't have fun here, if you don't enjoy this life that we provide and you provide us that it's probably not right, but you guys go play pinball. I'll be playing big buck hunter with you tomorrow. I've got golden tea. We've got bags. We've got an air hockey table. We just bought one of the things to dunk the trainer. So there's two trainers. You throw a softball, you dunk them. We do that every weekend. We bought a popcorn machine, a hot dog machine. I'm like, have fun.

We're going to one of those, like, what is it? A hidden room. And I'm like, these things that we do, you need to have a blast here. And you know how easy it becomes. And I'm trying to tell you, because you guys are going to be doing it, make it an amazing place because the people recruit the people for you. And when you get people that are stealing people from another career, instead of going to the unemployment line, like Craigslist and Indeed, get them from friends, family, neighbors. Your customers are your best source of referrals for new employees. When you talk about how great this company is, hey, Peterman, it's like, you got to understand these guys take care of me. I love them. We're family.

So what is your plan? I'm going to continue on this track a little bit longer. What's your plan to get amazing people? Let me hear how your interview, do you do personality profiling? Do you have multiple interviews? How does that process look for you? Yeah. So we look at, I guess, when it comes to the school, as we launch this and the people that I've talked to, it's going to take anywhere looking at probably three to 400 resumes, down to about 60 phone calls to 20 people coming in the door to interview, down to a class of six or seven, where not all of them will make it through. And so the biggest thing I think is what kind of image are you putting out there? So we run a ton

of Facebook stuff where it's just all about our culture here and what you're getting. And to me, that's key. I think you made a great point about making your current employees your biggest advocates. So we have a huge internal referral program that I think pays an employee if they refer an A player to our team. I think over five years, it paid them over $9,000, just as so long as that person's still on our team and they're on our team. And so I think really looking out there, I think given the times with all of the virus stuff going on, there's 20 plus million people that are unemployed. So we're not really sure what our target technician looks like and the ability to open it up into a ton of different industries that may have otherwise not been an

option. So we're excited about that. The recruiting to me, I think you hit the nail on the head and how much a player is worth compared to everybody so focused on, well, how do I get more customers? How do I get more customers? How do you get the guy who can do triple what the guy you have now? How do you get that guy on your team? Because then you don't need more customers. You just need better players. And I think that's what we're constantly working on is one, how do we improve the people on our team and then go find really good ones too,

much to what you said. So yeah, the recruiting is the name of the game. And how can you find those players? Because A players are worth far more than another customer. Absolutely. And guess what? A players, they have a higher ticket average conversion rate. Therefore, if I got a guy with an $800 ticket average,

and I spent 10% on marketing, I've got $80 to spend. Otherwise, with a $300 average, I got $30 to spend after the conversion rate. So I want to give you a couple of tips that I've never shared on here, but look into SparkHire. SparkHire is a interview process where you sit there and it's almost like a Zoom. They ask questions and you can plow through 400 people and you get to see them. And if they're not capable of fulfilling that obligation on the technical side, they're probably not going to know service Titan and they're probably not going to be able to handle it. And then the other thing is predictive index. Take your best guys and understand they're probably going to be mavericks in the service

department. And you're looking for a maverick and then make a fun game on Facebook where they could take this personality profile for free and then give them a special offer to come on board and say, you'd be perfect. And then finding the well, the well, for me, one of them is discount tire, right? These guys are great. They understand cycle life, you know, the miles per tire, and they understand the technical to a certain aspect and they're used to selling. So predictive index is expensive, but I'd say it's worth it. And I don't get paid anything if you use it.

And Spark Hire makes our job of recruiting much easier. And I use another thing called Greenhouse. But the technology is the game changer because I can have way less admins because we're so efficient. And Service Titan is, people think i'm like in cahoots with service time i love them but i talk about them a lot and i just think they've got an amazing program and people always tell me man how could you pay that much for a crm i'm like how could you not it's less than half of a percent of our total revenue half of a percent it saves me i've got 4300 call tracking numbers i mean they're playing checkers when we're

playing chess and you know what? My competitors are listening and I don't mind. Let's, let's elevate an industry. Listen, charge more, charge more, hire better people. So you told me about the process of selecting the people. I'm excited for your school because not a lot of people understand that they think they don't do role play. Nextdoor does a good job. I've been to several companies when Nextdoor was in there, and the guys are role playing. They're talking about objections. They're talking about customer satisfaction,

how to get more reviews. It's a very good thing to do. And I think when you think about this, hire someone for a lot of money. Find somebody that you got to pay over 100,000, that's got a track record, that's been where you want to go. I've cheaped out on everything.

I've cheaped out on a roof before that leaked within the second year. So don't go cheap on it. I want you to talk a little bit about company culture. And it's not always about gold and tea and big buck, Hunter. It's more about communication and having a voice in the company. Tell me about how you build culture in your business.

Yeah. My belief is that culture is something most people think it is those things. The games, the, hey, we do fun stuff. And to me, it's much more than that. It's something that your culture is something that needs to be worked on every single day. It's not always all those things. They are a part of it for sure. Yeah, we do fun things. We have outings, we have fun games, celebrate birthdays, all of that. But

to me, the culture is, is like you said, it's communication and it's compassion and compassion in that your people need to know that you care about them. A mentor of mine once gave me a tip that I try to practice. I fail some mornings, but I write three to five thank you notes to our staff every morning, handwritten thank you notes, and I send them to their house. And it may seem like a small and insignificant, but there's always people doing a great job. And a lot of times we fail to acknowledge those people. And so that has been a practice that I've done for about a year now and just really love it. It's a lot of times we fail to acknowledge those people. And so that has been a practice that I've done for about a year now and just really love it. It's a lot of fun.

To me, that's the biggest part of culture is when people know that you care, they'll run through walls for you. And oftentimes as businesses grow, for good reason, you can become detached. You know, when we were at 20 employees, yeah, I knew everybody and you came in contact with everybody every day. Well, now with two thirds of our workforce being remote and they go right from their home to their first job, yeah, you don't see everybody on a daily basis, but it's making an effort as that leader to connect with people, ask them how their day is going, how their kids are doing. Just connecting with them to me is a huge part of the culture. And you mentioned it earlier about the career path. And to me, a big part of our culture is that career path. It's one thing

to say you offer training. It's another thing to provide the means to train. So we have within our company, and which I think is a huge part of our culture is what we call our Peterman Leadership Academy. And it is a five-stage leadership program that basically takes a person and says, hey, if you want to continue to move up, if you want to continue to get better, here is literally a roadmap for how to do that. I mean, it's filled with books, seminars to watch, activities to do, just all kinds of different things that are going to hopefully grow that person. And to me, culture is all about growing get better, show them how and provide them the means to do so. And they'll do extraordinary things because when they know you care and they know you care about their growth and their advancement, they want to do it. And we've just found tremendous results with that. And in turn, creating a culture to where, you know,

they pass it along and train their teams and everybody's learning and getting better. I love that. I think you hit the nail on the head. And one of my other core values there on the bottom is gratitude. And gratitude means I'm really appreciative because there was a day that I could run seven jobs a day. And I did that for about 10 years. And I found that the company really, I started the growth because I never became a leader. And now I have so much gratitude for these people. And I tell them to run three jobs a day only anything more than three. You're wasting our time when your time, let's go to three. Let's show this customer. Let's play with their dog. Let's ask them questions. Tell them stories. You know, there's a good quote,

Alexander. Great. There's a guy called King Genghis Kong that was the largest emperor in the whole world. Still, he invented the bow and arrow. Other than him, there was Alexander the Great. And he has a quote that I wrote down. I remembered it, but I wanted to say it right. I'm not afraid of a herd of lions that are led by a sheep. I'm afraid of a group of sheep led by a lion. And the point is a great leader builds culture. A great leader knows where to spend their time. A great leader knows how to

turn things around fast if they're going the wrong way. And Jack Tester during his seminar, who's NextStar's CEO, who's a genius, and I have more respect for that man than people could ever imagine, is he teaches you how to build leaders out of your management and build them up. And here's what's great now is I have so many leaders surrounded by me. They're all running so many projects, so many fun things that it used to be me and Adam. And Adam came in in 2014 into my company and we had to do everything. Every project was led by us. Now we have about 10 leaders and it's so fun to build leaders and the leaders build culture. They take pressure off of the owner. They take pressure off of each other. And you're

only as strong as the weakest link. So unfortunately I had a weak link. He's no longer with us. And I have to make tough decisions because there's so many families that we're providing for right now. And if we don't make tough decisions, and I think a lot of people on the podcast say, man, if I fired that guy, the worst feeling in the world, and you've probably never been here because if your dad has been here is if I fire that guy, I'm back in the field. You know that? It's a crazy feeling to have this. I'm in a tough spot, but you said it earlier, 20 million people,

and they're not going back to the restaurant industry because the restaurant industry did not do well for them. And I was a busboy. I was a dishwasher. I was a bartender. I was a waiter. And I love the restaurant industry, but these people,

this is the best time to be in the home service business. It's becoming sexy again. It's becoming dependable. We are the people that are needed. We can still go work. So there's such an opportunity to bring in great people right now. And just realize 1A equals 3B. 1A player could do more than 3B players. I want to know what's attractive to you about the HVAC industry, because if I was to guess HVAC is your biggest, and then plumbing is subsidizing it in the off season. That's just a guess. I don't know, but I'd like to hear your perspective. Yeah. And a lot of it is due to, if you look at our total revenue, yeah, HVAC is going to account for roughly half of our total revenue. A lot of that is equipment sales. So obviously

you've got bigger tickets because equipment costs more and different things like that. Plumbing, we added back in 2000 and I believe it was 14-ish. You know, when we first started, that was before we had joined Nextar and we were lost. It was not a pretty sight. We slowly, with the help of Nextar and the guidance there, have really turned plumbing

into a really, really profitable center for our company. And I think the cool part about plumbing is the role that it plays with our customers. And I think the cool part about plumbing is the role that it plays with our customers. And so before we had a membership, like most people in our industry, you've got a membership where we're out for the heating, we're out once in the fall and once in the spring to look over your air conditioner, look over your furnace. And when we added plumbing, we just added it right to our membership. And you didn't see it at first,

but as our membership base has grown and you look at the calls on the board each day, I would say roughly about 80% of those are already members. And so what it's doing is we're building the trust with the customer and then we're able to offer them an additional service with a company that they already trust. And that's been a really cool thing. And then you get the ability to cross sell across things. Hey, we offer, oh, you know what? I'm looking for a plumber too. It never fails. Multiple times a day, you get a feeding tech out there that's calling into the office saying, hey, can we get a plumber out here? Because, you know, Miss Smith wants our garbage disposal looked at as well. And the ability to do that is really satisfying. Because at that point in time, for the most part, they've got one company to call for a lot of what's going to break

in their house. So that's a pretty cool thing. You know, I'm glad you brought up memberships because people call me and I feel bad for some of the listeners. If I don't get back to you right away, it's not because I don't care. It's because if you saw my calendar today, maybe you'd understand because the last thing ends at 915 and that's studying for my California ROC. So I'm not trying to avoid people, but they always ask me about service agreements and private equity. Anybody who's going to be the successor of your business, because there's three ways to get rid of your business.

You die, you sell it, or you give it to the next of kin. So I'm building a company that I can sell and hopefully take several bites and they care a lot about service agreements because you're building a fence around the customer. And I think everybody should read the book, The Automatic Customer. It'll change your perception of getting memberships and getting perpetuity and building a fence. Those tickets are better tickets because they're not price shopping. They love your company. And, you know, one of the other things that you said is the

equipment cost. And if anybody's listening right now, this is what's crazy. The average air conditioning unit, correct me if I'm wrong, is $2,000 to $2,500. And then you've got other things like the crane and you've got other parts you've got to use. The average guy is probably selling the unit for between $10,000 and $12,500. Companies I know and I've seen are getting $20,000, $25,, 25, 30,000 because they go redo all the venting systems. They use these very nice adjectives, but I'm not mad at them. They put the air purifiers or selling stuff like surge protectors and, and to stop the bloody noses. They have the right stuff to say. Do you realize if you just moved up to three grand and you're

charging 15, you're doing five times the equipment cost. At a big ticket though, I do way more than five times on some parts. Like a roller might cost me a buck. I sell it for 10. That's 10 times, but I'm making $9. You're making $12,000. I mean, it's not profit. We all know there's a lot more to it. There's so many other expenses. And I'm not saying that's going straight to the bottom line because we all know it's not. But you guys make a lot of money, a lot of money. And I just wish more industries would understand because HVAC is so far ahead. HVAC plumbing and electrical is so far ahead of every other industry. And they all believe that we're able to make really, really good money. We're allowed to be millionaires when we started the home service business. We don't have to make $100,000 a year. They're not paying themselves anything. It's $100,000

profit for the company. They don't give themselves a salary. What do you feel that's fair if you're going to work your butt off, you're a good leader and you are a big company in your market that you should be able to make. How much should the company be able to make? I believe that as a CEO of my size company, and I don't pay myself this, but I'm starting to take some quarterly draws, but I think I should be able to make $350,000 and still have the company bringing in 15 to 20% profit. What do you feel is a good rate at your size company that some of the owners and CEOs and COOs should be able to make? And what should the profit margin be? Yeah, I mean, I think you're right in line with where people should be.

I think sometimes you got to kind of ride that line. I feel like you see people on both sides of the fence. It sounds like you're more on the fence of that respect and pride and that I should be able to make a good amount of money and my company should be able to be profitable, but not so far on the other side of the line where you see people literally sucking all the money out of their company and wondering why they can't grow. So yeah, I think finding that happy medium of, hey, you're working your butt off, you deserve something. And then also understanding that if growth is what you want, and you want to build a really good company, you can't take everything out of it either.

And I think you see some people miss the point sometimes. You know, I see a lot of these companies all of a sudden, and I'm a real estate investor as well. I have a company called Lead Geeks. We find motivated seller leads. We're up to about 120 leads a day for people that are motivated to sell their house, highest cash offer. And then Lead Geeks is the platform for that. But I see people that start making money in an industry like HVAC or swimming pools or whatever. And they all of a sudden think they're real estate investors. They automatically have the shiny light. They automatically think this, this, this, this, this. And my big thing is you go out, you make 200 grand the first year,

you buy a big truck, you buy depreciating assets, you get a razor, you got a Harley truck. You buy depreciating assets. You get a Razor. You got a Harley now. And I'm like, all these are depreciating assets. A home is an appreciating asset, but really the best bet I can put on rather than the real estate market, rather than the stock market is my own company. I have the most control over it. And people would rather divest than invest in their own company. It doesn't make sense to me. Why wouldn't you put it where you have control? Learn, ask questions, have people that you look up to, hire amazing people, especially. I've had the experience of working with amazing consultants

that taught me so much, like Alan Rohr and Al Levy, and just so many great people. Basically what I just said, what are your observations? Because I think we're talking about the same things. Yeah, there's no doubt. You know, my funny story. So my partner in the real estate is a guy who we went to kindergarten together all the way through. So I went to kindergarten, went to separate grade schools and went to high school together and started investing in real estate back in 2012. Really didn't know what we were doing, but we're young and decided we were going to take over the

real estate world in Indianapolis. Now we're far from that, but he's a financial advisor and he always asks me, hey, did you see what the market did? And he knows that I do not look at that. I invest in the market just to kind of have some diversification. He goes, yeah, I forgot. You're not looking at that. I go, why would I? I have no control. Like they sent out a report and all of a sudden your stock drops. Whereas like you said, today I can come in and go buy a new excavator that I know can produce this amount of money and I know how to drive leads at it. So that seems like a pretty good investment for me. Or, you know, like we just built a brand new building. Well, I know that if I build this brand new building, I can have this many people

working and it all, it's just all a math equation, but it's a math equation to your point that I don't have complete control over, but I get a hell of a lot more control than I do if I'm investing in the stock market or speculating or whatever it may be that I love doing. And it's a lot of fun. To me, it's really a game. We talked about athletics before, and you're the coach. How do I put my players in the right positions to execute the play? Hey, I may have to move this guy from over here to over here because he's players in the right positions to execute the play? You know, hey, I may have to move this guy from over here to over here because he's not in the right seat. But how do I do that effectively, efficiently, and ultimately win the game, win the day? You know, it's sacrifice today or regret tomorrow. And so many people don't understand delayed gratification. They say, I need it today. It takes years to build a successful business unless you've got a lot

of money to invest. And what I'd love to hear, I think one of the biggest mistakes I see people do is they don't have the right why. Their why is I don't want to work for them. I don't want to work for another guy. I want to work for myself. And they think I'm a good technician. I should be able to start my own business. And I think a lot of us started that way. We're ready for a rude awakening. But tell me a little bit of advice you'd give to any business owner that's, let's just talk about HVAC, that's struggling right now. They're a one-man show. They've got an apprentice that's doing okay. And I'm actually talking about a buddy of mine. You know, this isn't advice for him, but I think there's a lot of people out there that they're still the guy in the truck and they've got someone they're trying to hire.

It seems like these guys never work out, but you're only paying them $14 an hour to be a helper right now. The training is to learn from you, and there's no really good system for inventory or a CRM. Give me some good advice if you're the three- to person company or maybe even one or two on what you would do to it sounds like next star was huge for you but give me some advice on that situation yeah i think you you hit the nail on the head when you said find your why why are you doing this and i think so many people have they're one they're not clear on why they're doing it, or they're just uncertain of how to get there. And to me, an exercise that my brother and I do every year, and I learned it from a book called Double Double, written by Cameron Herod. And he talks about what he calls a vivid vision.

And it's essentially an exercise where you take and you write down as if you're already have accomplished it, what your company is going to look like in three years. And essentially what you do is work backwards from that. So if that's what it's going to look like in three years, what you should be able to do is you write down that, what it looks like, what it feels like, what your people are saying, what your building looks like, what your trucks look like, what software you're using, all of these things, what eventually you can pull out of that as goals. So if it's going to look like that, well, then I need to do this by next month. And I need to do this by a year from now. And I need to do this. And so you start to build this plan. And I think what that vivid vision also uncovers is your why. Why are you doing this? When we get there in three

years, this is what it's going to feel like and this is what the people are going to be doing. Why? Why are you doing this? And I can tell you, and I think we hit on it here earlier, if it's solely to make a bunch of money, you're going to be sorely disappointed at some point. You may make a bunch of money here in three years and that may be all great, but I have not seen that be a plan that withstands the test of time. There's got to be something bigger. And that's a tough question for a lot of people. What is the bigger thing you're going after? For me, it's building leaders. And building leaders doesn't mean my next service manager. It means we're all called to lead ourselves. And when we lead ourselves, you can

lead others because a lot of leadership is lead by example. And so that's how I got really clear on my why. And once you get clear on your why, you start with kind of a vision, start with the end in mind and work backwards, you'll have a plan and your plan will be backed by that why. And to me, if you're a smaller shop and wanting to get bigger, taking that first step and writing down on paper what your plan is, I think is the biggest key to getting started. So many people, hey, what's your plan look like? Well, I don't know. Get through today, make it to tomorrow. Well, you may find yourself doing that over and over again. Well, I can give a few tips on that is what do your manuals look like? What does your job

postings look like? How are you going to recruit? How are you going to train? I've got 27 manuals. Look, it's really hard, but the best way to do it is to go find a company that's doing 20 million. If that's your goal, you're doing 20 million, go visit you and say, because I think my rap in my head looked really cool, but it was so my first, and it's gotten better and better, but go find somebody successful and write down, Holy cow, Holy cow, Holy cow, get out of your comfort zone. You know, I always ask people and you said you build leaders. And somebody asked me not that long ago, when did you know you felt successful? And I said, two things. I was out of town for about three weeks and I didn't have to make any phone calls. The company made as much, if not more

money when I'm there. And I said, the other thing is when the bill came and I didn't have to look at it because there was a time that I had to look at the bill and be like please don't order that expensive pinot but some of the other things I want to talk about is is I'm not going to say leads don't matter but the people really do if you get great people I told the guys earlier in the orientation I, most companies try to get one good review per 10 customers. I try to get five good reviews per customers. They're getting one for 10. I'm getting 50 for 10. I'm getting a Facebook review. I'm getting a Facebook testimonial. I'm getting next door Yelp, Google, BBB. And I ask customers, don't ask them for one, especially if you're a small company and you've got the time.

Listen, ask them for everything. And that's one of the things that's worked for me is I ask for referrals. I tell people all the time, you've got to ask. Don't be afraid to ask. Don't be timid. I said, you know, one of our best guys, he grew up in Iraq. He was in a bunker for three weeks where they were bombing there. And he's not afraid of anything.

If somebody says no, he goes, that's just an invitation to explain to them why. It's going to take 10 notes for him to get over it. And he very rarely loses because he doesn't care. He's like, this is what you need. I'm the doctor when I'm in the garage. And I'd love to hear from your perspective. The guys are a lot of the huge piece of it, but what other things have you seen to really make the phone ring off the hook? What are the marketing things that are

working now with COVID? Where are you finding the most success? Yeah. So I always look first for things that people say don't work anymore. Like we run quite a bit of TV. TV for us works great. I think that it works great because we're doing a lot of other things as well. One of the things that's working really, really well for us right now is Facebook and the ability to drive leads. I also think that there's a lot of marketing can get a bad name because of how it's followed up on. And so to me, what we found is that when a lead comes in, especially in today's society, people want instant. They want right now. They want it quick. They don't want to have to pick up the phone. They want it as fast as humanly possible. So we drive a lot of

our lead flow via text message. So it is, hey, if you want this text, this code to this, and we have reps on the other end that we have CSRs that don't ever pick up a phone other than to text that they don't talk on the phone. They just text. So explain to me a mailer or Facebook or anything. You've got an opportunity. And is it like a short code or how do you, I want to dig into this because I'm curious. Yeah. So we'll run, yeah, we run select on the radio, uh, radio, we'll run our offer and it's text furnace to four, one, four, one, one. And so we'll use that on mailers. We'll use it on radio, TV, all of those things, Because when people see our stuff or hear our stuff,

what do they have in their hand? They got their phone in their hand and they're texting. And so make it very, very easy to communicate with them. Then on Facebook, we have ads where if they click on it to set up an estimate or whatever, it pops up in the messenger and our IT guy who is a wizard, he's connected it so that it basically, when they submit their information, it shoots them a text message and then we're chatting with them right then and there. Hi, this is so-and-so from Biederman Heating, Cooling and Plumbing. I saw that you wanted to set up an estimate, but how would you like to do that? And so it's got to be, we learned the hard way. We were driving leads on Facebook. And then all of a sudden we were like, well, these aren't converting. Like people

are saying they're interested, but then they never, they never say anything after that. And what we found is having a rep. So we have a rep that works. A lot of people are on Facebook in the evening. So she works on the evening and she works from home. She just had a baby. She used to work for us in another position. And we said, Hey, do you just want to sit at home, watch a baby and field Facebook leads? She's like, absolutely. That sounds like a perfect job. And are those messages or through messenger? So the messenger links to a text message. And then she responds, is it text or is it the Facebook? It's text. This is super cool. I love learning something. And I've learned a lot from you, but this is like,

there's just gold nuggets throughout this whole thing. How many leads do you get through Facebook in a day? Depending on if we have it on. So this is our busy season. So we have a lot of our marketing. But when we turn it on i mean we can set for installations which is our big ticket you know we'll turn it on over a weekend and we can drive close to 20 appointments just in a weekend which 20 appointments we close at about 50 percent at about a nine thousand dollar average ticket and to drive much, you're looking at spending maybe 2,500 bucks. Well, it more than makes up for itself. Yeah. And 2,500 for 90,000, it makes sense. So what is the message? Because here's the thing. I've always thought Facebook,

and I do a lot of Facebook. I mean, I spent a small fortune, but I use it to recruit. And there's certain things on education. I feel like Facebook, if I had to do an upside-down pyramid, is more of the top of the funnel. You don't go to Facebook when you need a spring replaced or your furnace is leaked, your 5-gallon or 10-gallon or whatever it is, hot water heater is leaking. But I've always thought you've got to build a reason. So I say, did you realize that 90% of the bugs in your house get through the bottom rubber of your garage? And it's more of an education piece and take them down a funnel, but it's higher up here. It's not those ones that need to get done today.

So what is your tactic on something like social media to get qualified leads? I'm going to call it what kind of bait are you putting out there? Yeah, so we do a couple of different things. We do a lot of kind of low entry point offers. So whether that be an indoor air quality test, whether that be a water quality test, a tune up, all things that are 50 bucks or under. So those work well. Dryer vent cleanings work well. And then we'll do some of our big, we'll call them flashier offers on new systems. So we'll do those. And then the one that's working really well, that if you ask anybody in our industry, whether you should do this or not, they'll tell you you're crazy if you do.

So I've grown up and what's the number one thing? Never quote over the phone. You never quote something over the phone. And so what we said is, well, maybe we could. And so I got this out of, this was something I learned out of COVID. I was looking at the newspaper and I saw this, it was a window guy, and he's advertising across the top banner of the newspaper and it says, get your free virtual quote, free easy steps. And I said, well, why can't we do that? They're like, well, you can't quote over the phone. You don't know what size system they have. You don't know whatever it may be. You don't have that information. Well, what we do have is we have a lot of curious people out there who know that

they need to replace their system. They're just not ready. You know, it's a lot, especially during COVID to have someone out to your home. So if you don't need to replace it, are you going to have someone out? Well, probably not. So what we did is we said, get your free instant quote. We asked them four simple questions, which gave us a basis for quoting a system. And we gave them a range of where they would be for a system. And we said, I like the range. You just made my day. I like the range. Geez, you scared me. And if you'd like to schedule a comfort advisor out to your home, we can gladly get that done. And what we did is we had them answer the the questions on Facebook and then we delivered the range

we delivered the range via text message so their their instant quote came via text message and then what we did is then we started the chat right away so started the chat hey can we get someone can we get a technician out to your home to look over all the details and get you a firm estimate and go over anything else you may want to go over? Oh, jeez. I freaking love this stuff, man. You know, more millennials bought houses last year than baby boomers for the first time ever. And the reason that's important is because the buying decisions are starting to change.

And my worst nightmare, and I'm leading edge at the technology. I mean, we built so much technology. It's freaking nuts. But I do not want to turn the home service into a commodity where it's survival of the cheapest. So I always say we sell oranges when everybody else sells apples. And I'm always trying to find something better, something that's powder coated, something with a better bearing inside of it. And I'm just afraid with Amazon and Facebook and what's going on now and Google Home Services, it's always been in the back of my mind that innovation is a great thing, but it's scary when, like, let's just pretend that ubers somehow drive themselves which is now and you don't need your car anymore well a lot of people would make their garage into a living space so there's certain things that people don't even take into account does this thing grow so

do you ever worry about anything like robotic? There's artificial intelligence. Google could book a phone call right now for a salon. I mean, it's getting crazy. And I think within two years, we're exponential steps. No more is the word linear. Linear is we move year after year, we grow 3%. Exponential is thousands of percent a year. And I'm not afraid of change.

And I embrace change. But there are some things that I might say, I don't spend a lot of time, but I'm like, Oh, that's going to suck. So what are your thoughts about some of that stuff? Yeah.

I mean, I think that what now you can buy a water softener on Amazon and underneath of it, you can buy someone to install it. And I think that, you know, as we've talked and it sounds like your company's much in the same vein, is I still think there's going to be a need for reliable service. And I

think that the guy putting your water software in off Amazon, when he shows up in a beat up minivan, there's a lot of people that that's not okay. Some, it is, and that's great. And frankly, we probably don't want them as our customers. We want the person who wants a qualified, trained technician out there to take care of their home. And I think what we can do as the world changes, and I'm with you. I mean, I love change and innovation and technology. We're always trying to develop something. But I think if we keep a focus on people, I think ultimately we're going to be in a really good spot. But I think it's nothing to ignore. I think there's some out there that are like, oh, no,

it can never happen to us. And we'll just keep providing great service. I think we have to be in tune with it because I also think it presents some great opportunities because if you can take their technology and they're, you know, they got a heck of a lot of smart people working for them too. So if we can take their idea and then layer on the really good service with a really good technician with a really good relationship, then I think we got something that keeps getting better as they keep innovating. Yeah. You know, I've, I've worked with a couple of technology companies that are working with really huge monster, every house in Houston.

I mean, they go in and they know exactly. I'm looking for a three-bedroom, two-bath. And they go in and they replace this, this, this, this, this, this to start. Then they got a schedule. In six years, I'm going to replace this. In 10 years, I'm going to replace this. It gets replaced. And it's an algorithm.

And it's crazy to me. But they need reliable people. I gets replaced. And it's an algorithm. And it's crazy to me. But they need reliable people. I absolutely agree. I had a company call me up. I don't think I signed an NDA. Well, I spoke to the people in San Francisco at Yelp. And then Thumbtack called me up and they said, listen, dude, listen to your podcast. We understand you're the real deal. You have over 100 technicians. We thought the solution, Amazon, Facebook, they all thought this was a solution. They thought it was like Uber. Find a company that's close and get them to fix it.

The problem is it's so much harder. The parts that we carry, there's so much more to it. And I said, here's the secret. Find a huge company that can pay you $10,000 a month, can deliver them consistent leads and watch what happens. Because you know what? I could train guys. I can recruit people. I can find people that care. I could have them use a CRM. That's a big piece too. I know a lot of people out there are still using paper and I understand why. And if you're solo and you're trying to make a living, that's fine. And I use paper for a long

time. But if you want to systematize your business, it's kind of be survival, the fittest survival, the most technically savvy. And I tell people, look, if you don't like changes in it for you, because we are changing at a rapid rate. And I hope you embrace it because you're going to get really sick of what happens. And I feel like if your company is like mine, you get these guys that came on five years ago and they're like, I didn't sign up for this. And I'm like, you're right. So here's what I'll allow you to do. I want you to go work for my competitor because you didn't sign up for this. And I've changed so much. So the new guy that comes and signs up for what they have to do now is like, this is cool. They told me what I had to do coming in. And I feel bad.

I got amazing guys that have been with me for 10 years that aren't going anywhere. But a lot of people have this feeling like you guys change so often that you're accelerating the CRM. You're making us do different pictures. Now you're making us geotag stuff on Google. Like how are we supposed to keep up with all this? I say, I know it's tough. It's really tough, but you got to roll with the punches, senor. So what are your thoughts on that? Yeah, I mean, that's a lot of people have often, you know, when I first got started, it was changing something every single day and then changing stuff, changing it back, changing it to another way. And to me, change is the only way we grow. The minute that we say, well, this is the way we do it, we don't do it any differently, is the minute you're going to get past.

So yeah, we're constantly, constantly changing things. And to me, if you change just to change, then that's a different story. But if you change because we learned something while doing what we do, because we want to be that good. We want to crank that dial just a little bit more. Last month, we were set an all time company record for revenue. And this month, we changed how we train

the technicians out in the field. Well, last month seemed to work pretty good since that was the biggest month in company history. But well, how can we make it better? Well, we missed some opportunity. You know, if we did this percentage, we could probably do this percentage because of the things that we glossed over. And I think it's just that, that constant need to be perfect, to be at your best and your best often comes with changing. I mean, I'm a huge, huge golf fan, love watching golf. And I still remember when Tiger Woods won all of those majors.

And all of a sudden he came out and said, he's changing his swing. He's going to change his entirely overhaul of swings. Like you got the best swing going. What do you mean? How can it be better? But you constantly see it with those guys who are at the top of their top of their game is they're always working and always trying to figure out how they can get just a little bit better. You know, it's crazy that you had your best month. I'm looking at service Titan on this monitor.

I hit my best month. And what I realized is when you got something like a world event, whether that's a housing crisis, there's always winners, and there's few of them, and there's a ton of losers. So the losers cause the winners to be bigger. And I feel like we were really fortunate. We did a lot of TV. We did a lot of good things. And now, and I don't think this is a bubble for our company because we got so much exposure during a pandemic that this is going to be a staple. It's a stamped in the history of what we did. And our growth is just magnified because of it. And it's interesting that you said

be the best because I would say better your best. That should be your goal to better your best. I look at the guys that at the top and I say, yeah, what's your goal for next week? Some of them are like, well, I I'm the best. Did when you're number one, you're playing against yourself. And if you don't think that then you're not playing the right game. I got three questions for you. I appreciate you staying on longer. I can't tell you how much I appreciate coming on. I really love this stuff. Number one is what's the best way to reach out to you if they want to get a hold of you? I know you got a podcast, but just all the places they can reach you. Yeah, they can reach me LinkedIn. They can definitely reach me there. The company website,

which we have a lot of resources on is petermanhvac.com. You can pick up a copy. I just finished my book last year. You Can't Stop the Growth. That's at can'tstopthegrowth.com. And then listen to the podcast. You can pick that up.

I think it's on just about every outlet that's out there sweet and i always ask this question you've given me a couple books and i've read double double and the ideal team player i've got both those books but give me three books that are impactful that you think everybody who has a home service company needs to read. Yeah, I would say anything John Maxwell, but specifically the 21 Irrefutable Laws of Leadership. That is a book that I go over with my team all the time. It's a great one. The other one is, I think it's a newer one, but it's called Dichotomy of Leadership by Jocko Willink. He does a great job in that book of really just kind of using stories from his experience in the military and then how that translates to leadership.

And then I would say another one. Actually, we just had one of our leadership meetings this morning, and I took an excerpt out of this book. It's called Legacy. I'm not sure who it's by. I think it's back here. James Kerr. Kerr is K-E-R-R. It's about the all black rugby team in New Zealand. And it's just a great book on leadership and motivation and drive, which is a great one. I love it. Those are three amazing books. I haven't read Legacy. And the final thing,

I've got so many good notes here. I'm excited. I'm going to do some fun stuff. I'm going to contact you. We'll talk after the podcast. But the way I like to kind of end the podcast is we've got so many gold nuggets in this podcast. Give me a few minutes,

just one final thought, maybe something you want the audience to go do some way they can improve their lives or business or family, anything you want. I'll give you the floor for a few minutes just to leave it on you to finish this up. Yeah, absolutely. You know, we talked in the middle of the podcast about if you're a guy, it's running a small company and you want to get bigger and you want to get better. And then we talked here at the end, just a few minutes ago about, you know, you mentioned the comment, better your best. And to me, that all starts with a plan. And to me, the way that I kind of structure myself is a mentor of me gave me an exercise called a life plan. And it's your

own personal plan of what you want to do, where you want to be, who you want to be, and the people's lives that you want to impact. And so I have a 20 page document that literally depicts every facet of my life, all the things I want to do, the people that are influential in my life, the goals that I have, the values that are my own. And to me, I think anybody can better their best by taking the time to reflect on what your plan is. You know, you're very outspoken about what your plan is and what you want to do, which is to me is awesome. And I love that. And while you can do it for your your business I think if you do it for yourself first that guides a lot of what your business becomes and your why is exposed when you really sit down

and think about who you want to be and what your purpose in this world is and so while I think both exercises are extremely important I think getting clear on who you want to be is most important. And then you can start to draft that vivid vision of where your company is going to go and how you're going to take it there and the lives of the people that you're going to affect. I love it. I love it. I just, you made me think of one thing and I have to say it, I was going to have you end it, but I read this book.

I'm not going to go search for right now, but I'll tell you, the guy is a really smart guy. And he says, listen, he goes, I remember writing down the 50 things I wanted in a wife. And he wrote down 50 qualities of his wife. And then he thought about it and he said, wow, I'm writing down 50 things. I'm going to write down 50 things that this woman will want in a man, in a husband, in a father. And he wrote down those 50 things and that's who he needed to become. That just gave me goosebumps because I love that thought process of who do I need to become as a person? And I think you said that really well is who do I need to become to build a business that I want, to build the family that I want, to build the spirituality or the body or the health. So Chad, Mr. Chad Peterman, it's been

a pleasure and got to do it again. This is great stuff. I love the nuggets. So many cool things. Absolutely bombs dropped here. So I appreciate you coming on. Absolutely. Thanks for having me. I'd be glad to come on anytime. Just hopefully people got something from this. I think it's probably your goal is just to help as many people as you can. We're all extremely grateful for the positions that we're in and we're all called to help others achieve a little bit more or as you said it, better our best. You know, it's so good when you start helping people, isn't it? It's like a boomerang and it's so cool. We're starting a whole charity. It's going to be massive. And I'm like, you know what? I'm not selfish, but this is going to like 10 times what we feel

in our hearts, working by our core values and giving back. And I'm going to make sure that every person in my company, first and foremost foremost has a good set of tires on their car they're going to all have a thanksgiving and christmas dinner and presents for their kids i think it all starts in our own backyard but then we could go out and do awesome things for so many people and it just does wonders when you do it and people are like how could you give when you have nothing and it's pretty easy to give because the person that gives when they have nothing gets 10 back in return. It just keeps happening. So, Chad, once again, man, I appreciate you very much.

Yeah, no problem. Thanks for having me. Hey, guys, I just wanted to thank you real quick for listening to the podcast. From the bottom of my heart, it means a lot to me. And I hope you're getting as much as I am out of this podcast. Our goal is to enrich your lives and enrich your businesses and your internal customers, which is your staff. And if you get a chance, please, please, please subscribe. You're going to find out all the new podcasts. You're going to be able to ask me questions to ask the next guest coming on and do me a quick favor,

leave a quick review. It really helps us out when you like the podcast and you leave a review, make it four or five sentences, tell us how we're doing. And I just wanted to mention real quick, we started a membership. It's homeservicemillionaire.com forward slash club. You get a ton of inside look at what we're gonna do to become a billion dollar company.

And we're telling everybody our secrets basically. And people say, why do you give your secrets away all the time? And I'm like, you know, the hardest part about giving away my secrets is actually trying to get people to do them. So we also create a lot of accountability within this program. So check it out. It's homeservicemillionaire.com forward slash club. It's cheap. It's a monthly payment. I'm not making any money on it to be completely frank with you guys, but I think it will enrich your lives season further. So thank you once again for listening to the podcast. I really appreciate it.