The Home Service Expert Podcast - Generating Loads of Leads in a Cost Effective Way

Episode Date: September 26, 2018

Todd Bairstow is the founder and co-president at Keyword Connects, an online performance marketing company for home improvement businesses. Aside from being a Premier Google Partner, Keyword Connects is known for its performance-based model, wherein clients only pay per lead, making it very popular for companies in the home service industry. In this episode, we talked about hyperlocal marketing, branding, lead generation...

This is the Home Service Expert podcast with Tommy Mello. Let's talk about bringing in some more money for your home service business. Welcome to the Home Service Expert, where each week, Tommy chats with world-class entrepreneurs and experts in various fields, like marketing, sales, hiring, and leadership, to find out what's really behind their success in business. Now, your host, the home service millionaire, Tommy Mello. Hey there, Tommy Mello back with the home service expert. And today we're interviewing

Todd Bairstow. Did I pronounce that correctly? That's pretty good. Better than my little league coaches did. And Todd has run a lead generation company for a long time. Todd, you know Google. You know the whole lead gen side of things. I'm really excited to talk to you about it. Tell me a little bit about what you've done in the past 15 years and where you're at today. Sure. And first of all, thanks for having me on.

I really appreciate it. It's always great to talk to folks in the industry. I'm one of the founders of Keyword Connects, and we work with over 400 remodelers in the home improvement space. Specifically, we work with roofers, window replacing companies, bathroom and kitchen remodelers, gutter protections, awnings, a whole range of services. They tend to have a higher ticket, but we work with them in Google, Yahoo, Bing, and a lot of the online paid media to drive really high quality leads and high quality phone calls into their business. So they're going to kind of set it in home appointments at really high rates and hopefully close at very high rates as well.

Awesome. Yeah. So you've been doing this now for how long? So 12 years, Keyword Connects has been working with companies and, you know, usually anybody from, you know, a single awning dealer down in Georgia to, you know, a massive $50 million multi-product home improvement company in Michigan on the West Coast. We work with everybody in between okay so you've been doing this now 12 years you do a pay for performance which just is a fancy way of saying they don't pay unless you deliver a good quality lead tell me a little bit about how that models work for you and the people out there that might not know what that is kind of just go ahead and what that means

sure so you know when i founded the company there were a lot of ad agencies and marketing firms and consultants who would try and put together a google program for you and hey we can put ads up we can do you know all the things you need online the problem is that you know a lot of these folks had no home improvement experience whatsoever and so they were lumping home improvement companies in with, along with my travel company, along with my biotech company, along with the medical company. What we found very early on was that home improvement companies have very specific needs in terms of what happens online in order to produce an appointment with a homeowner, to

get a confirmation from the homeowner, and then ultimately to get that salesperson into the home to close. And we focused on not just on generating the leads, but also generating the type of leads that are going to result ultimately in revenue for the home improvement company. And we found very quickly that we could do this up front and then work on a performance basis so where we really only get paid once we generate high quality leads that go to the home improvement company and that's been a real differentiator for us in the space over the years. You know I got like 20

questions that spawned off of that I'm gonna just pull myself in to not go off topic too much, but you told me earlier that you decided, because I know how it is. A lot of these guys don't answer their phones all the time. So you open up a call center to kind of vet the lead a little bit. My question to you about that is when you answered the phone, what was your, so let's say I'm in Arizona, right? I'm in Tempe, where ASU is. You book your call in the call center. Someone calls in and they need a kitchen remodel.

Tell me the mindset of how you convey that to the customer, that you're not the one going to show up. How is that done? Sure. So what we do is very different from some of the other lead providers in the space. So when we put together campaigns for our clients, let's take your kitchen remodeler in Arizona as an example. We don't go out as kitchen quotes or get quotes from three licensed providers. What we do is we work with that specific kitchen remodeler, their brand, their name, their everything. And we put up ads for them. We build landing pages

specifically for that company. And when the homeowner goes to it, they're not seeing anything that has our name on it. They're just seeing Phoenix, Arizona Kitchen Remodeler, whatever their name is, and their brand and their product. So they're very specifically seeing what our end client is selling. So when a homeowner responds to either that phone number or that series of landing pages, they're familiar with the company. They know exactly what they sell. It becomes much easier to get them to pick up the phone when you call, much easier to get them to respond to an email or a text, et cetera. And that results in higher appointment rates, sit rates, and close rates on down the line. So it's very different from a lot of the other lead gen propositions that are out there.

So you said your primary source, you guys were doing a lot of pay-per-click, a lot of probably display ads, things of that nature, retargeting. Is that right? So the one game changer I think that just kind of has been really coming out lately is advanced verification and the Google guarantee, which really kind of puts a huge dent in lead, Jennifer, if you ask me. I mean, they're trying to get rid of guys like you and I that do some of this stuff. What are your thoughts on all that? So, interesting.

I've been pretty intimately involved with Google local services since they came out a couple of years ago. We've been in the beta. And now that it's launched, this is a play by Google. It's a direct shot at the Angie's List, the home advisors of the world. They're trying to take some of those dollars that they see themselves as having funneled towards those companies and to take it for themselves. Google has bitten off a lot here. It's a lot to chew to start working with Plumbers, HVAC, and Electrical across the space with the Google guarantee. And they still have a lot of bumps to work out of that process. I've listened to a couple of hundred phone calls generated through Google services.

And to their credit, the calls seem to be very high quality. They're from homeowners looking to solve a problem, you know, specific to electrical, HVAC, plumbing, et cetera. What's missing there is the recognition of who the provider is. You know, consumers are essentially going to their phone, clicking a link, and just seeing white space and type and making a decision there. They don't know whether they're going with a good plumber or a bad plumber. They're just going with the first thing that pops up.

And that doesn't always make for the best situation for either the homeowner or the service provider. So I have some concerns about that going forward. I don't think there's enough information being given to the homeowner to make a great decision right now. You know, they're doing background checks through Pinkerton, which is a step in the right direction. They're

verifying, okay, I've been through this process between advanced verification and the Google guarantee 25 times because we're in 11 states and 17 major markets. It feels like 100, I bet. They make you do a background check

every single time. It's kind of ridiculous. It's a crazy process. To go to an individual company and have all 50 employees go through a background check, it's just, Google completely underestimates how much work that is for the

service provider. Well, I've gone through it now at every location they've launched it. We're in the pre-launch of other locations. So enough people come in and they consider themselves really good at the process. I mean, I know they say we hit some speed bumps. I don't want to talk bad about Google on a podcast. I don't, you know, my business relies on it. But at the end of the day, sometimes it takes six months for them to get through the process. And, you know,

one of the problems I had with my background checks when I do them is sometimes it would take two weeks while in the hiring process, these guys are already going to get another job. You know, we're hiring all the time. So I found a service and it's not quite as comprehensive, but it gets it back in real time. Within like two seconds, it goes out, it finds all the stuff. And 99% of the time I've matched up 20 of them and they've been the exact same. So I'm looking for speed. And that's one of the problems we have with Google on that note.

And I understand what they're going through, but the advanced verification, they wanted to see my business card. They want to see my shirt. They wanted me to start my license plate, my registration, my invoices. They want to see the logos on the building. If people could come into your building and I'm pretty sure, I don't know if you know this Todd, but there's five companies, five types of companies, HVAC, plumbing, electrical, garage doors, and locksmiths. The black sheep are locksmiths and then their baby brother's garage doors.

And that's why they got this really advanced verification that you got to do a lot more than HVAC, plumbing, and electrical. But it's been good. I think it's going to get rid of some of these bad guys. And the whole platform basically guarantees up to a couple grand. are like why would why would anybody pay that if google decides that and i'm like because they'll pull you off if they you know what i mean you can't market with them so in my opinion it's gonna have the cream rises to the top i think that when they start seeing reviews get below four stars and their verification process isn't where it's gonna be right now there's some

speed bumps, but they're actually going to call. I've heard one out of 10 to actually call that client because they've got their phone number. They're capturing all this data. I mean, I knew it was going to be a rough rollout. Once they get it down, don't you think that they are looking to see if it's a good company? They're verifying the reviews more than Yelp does. I mean, they're going above Yelp now. I'll say that. I mean, Yelp's got a good company. They're verifying their reviews more than Yelp does. I mean, they're going above Yelp now. I'll say that. I mean, Yelp's got a very sophisticated. So what are your thoughts just considering all the stuff I just said?

So, look, I think in theory it's a good idea. I think that they've launched this before they've ironed a lot of those things out. What it does for a guy like me is, you know, I've been making a living and helping companies to be at the top page for Google for years and years now with paid ads and getting that process there. What the Google services does is it pushes all those ads down. And so it forces people who may have been paying Google for years and years and sometimes, you know, hefty amounts per month, they have to completely change from what they've been successful at for years, paying Google already, to a completely different system that's there. You said something I think was spot on, though, which is ultimately the companies, the service providers who play best with Google are going to see themselves at the top more often. And this is the kind of shift that Google is looking for,

which is to get the same companies or reliable companies to the top more and more often. It is still a difficult thing for the service providers to understand because of all the background checks and all the other stuff. But those who commit to it are going to see dividends, particularly early on before the rest of the industry catches on to this. Yeah, I do think it's going to rise to the top. I do think that the people are actually going to have to do a much better job overall.

I think that if you don't start going this direction, I heard a crazy stat. I don't know if it's accurate, but their goal is to take 90% of all the clicks. So if that's the case, and I do believe it, they could lower the price. I mean, right now our average acquisition is under $30 on the PRT program. So people are like, you know how much I pay for graduate repair Phoenix for that search term if I want to get that spot?

Guess how much? Just take it. It's going to be, you know, five or six bucks. 75 bucks. Oh my goodness. So like I said, I haven't done garage repair before. It's crazy.

It's crazy because guess how much I could get a custom wood overlay. Custom wood overlay is only 12 bucks. So, you know, what's interesting is you said we drive better quality than your home advisor. And I've had some pretty good guys on here from home advisor. And I know I buy Angie's list. They do the background checks. They're like the David and Goliath.

I mean, they're not even the David when it comes to Google because they can't guarantee the stuff like Google does. What are your thoughts about HomeAdvisor now on Angie's List? So it's interesting. So a lot of our clients use Keyword Connect as well as Angie's List, as well as HomeAdvisor. And, you know, my mantra is always the same. If the ROI works out for you and these providers, then that's great. We compete, I guess, in name only, but I don't see them at the top of the paid listings where we really have our customers and are doing the most work. They're doing it through their website, their TV, their radio, their affiliate network. to hear from some of my clients is that the Angie's List program that had been somewhat successful for the clients before had kind of been turned into the home advisor model.

So they were getting more leads from an Angie's List program, but they weren't as effective as the old Angie's List program. That's just anecdotally, I've been hearing that, but it's not surprising. I mean, HomeAdvisor is very profitable. It's a very large company, so I'm not surprised by it. The phone work with those programs is just super, super important. If you can't get back to somebody in under 60 seconds, you're really going to be at a deficit relative to the other folks who are out there. So that's an added pressure on a service provider to get back to that homeowner almost immediately. Yeah, I think that's added pressure on a service provider to get back to that homeowner almost immediately. Yeah, I think that's what it's all about.

I mean, we just went to same-day dispatching. Same-day dispatching has changed the game for us quite a bit in the last couple weeks. It's something that Nexstar recommends, and I'm sure you're familiar with Nexstar's best practices in the industry for HVAC plumbing and electrical. So same-day dispatching just means we're able to give higher priority jobs same day, one-hour scheduling, and not charge them for it. And it's worked out really well, especially considering Service Titan kind of built it for that model. They knew they were going to be going to it. Service Titan, we switched over to them about two years ago,

and I will give them a lot of credit as our expansion continues to grow. And hopefully, you know, our goal is to be in all 48 states. And I will say that the platform itself, we're growing with it. We're power users. We're one of five power users on there. So we're able to really work with them on what we need to grow to 48 states. And I told them a long time ago, I said, if you work with us and help us design the program we need, which they are, you don't need a bunch of graduate companies because we'll go in and take market share and spend more in marketing. And, you know, I do everything from ValPak, MoneyMailer, Clipper.

I do radio, TV. We do, I have real estate agents going to vacant homes and put stickers. We're in the design centers. We talked to HOAs, we've got outside sales. So when you add all this up plus Google, and we've got a hell of a, an organic team. I mean, right now we've got a blog network and everything else. It's, it's massive, but you know, I know that you've said that when you do the offline stuff and you combine it with the online stuff, it gets really effective. Tell me a little bit about what you'd recommend to a lot of the guys out there that don't know a lot about the offline stuff, because now a lot of these

younger companies just know Google. That's it. That's how they started. Yeah. Well, you know, Google can work for smaller companies in really interesting ways as they grow, but ultimately there's a glass ceiling there. Google and Bing and Yahoo are only going to provide you a certain level of traffic, and then you have to work really hard just to maintain that. The companies that grow into your bigger $10 million, $15 million, $20, $50 million companies are putting in all of the offline channels. So they're doing some kind of broadcast, whether it's TV, whether it's radio, in some cases it's Kansas thing, in other cases they have a massive home show event team, and the biggest

ones have all of those. What it does is it sends traffic to your website, incidentally. They see your door knocker that you left somewhere. They see you at a home show. They hear you on the radio. And that generates searches for your brand. That excludes all the competition. They're not going to HomeAdvisor.

They're going directly to you. It's incredibly, incredibly valuable traffic to your website because those folks are going to convert. It's going to look like you have no media cost. The reality is that you have a media cost or marketing cost somewhere else. It just manifests itself on your website or through a Google search. They click on a paid ad, and it's that kind of holistic view that a lot of my most successful clients have. I have a gutter protection client of mine for 12 years.

His leads to TV come in at $600, $700, but his leads from his website come in at dollars, single digits. And he knows you just have to appropriate that the right way because when his broadcast goes on, his internet really booms. And so there's definitely a connection there for amongst all those other channels. Yeah, I talked to an air conditioning guy who's pretty big in a couple of states. He's one of the bigger guys. And he said, Tommy, when you do radio and TV or billboards effectively, which are branded, the more branded strategies, your click-through rate, that's what you got to look at is your click-through rate, but you got to own the top.

You got to be spending the money on PPC. And now you got to be on the Google guaranteed program. If you're going to spend all that money, because otherwise they go to, and they're not always looking for you. If they do branded keywords, like my company's a one garage store service. Yeah. I'm going to show up for that. You got to buy your own keywords, but when they see that and they go, those are the guys that on TV, they look really good. I didn't even think about them. And then they click

on you and then they call you. So it is true. It's scary though, because a lot of guys out there think you don't have to spend a lot of money and they've been around for 35 years. Most of these guys were the double truck and the yellow pages one time, you know, if you were, okay, I'm going to be selfish here. If you wanted to build a huge grocery company and you were growing, tell me about some of the things you look at to do mergers and acquisitions. How would you grow a powerful force

in the whole United States? So there are a couple of theories on this and it's interesting. I'm seeing some of this play out right now in the private equity world. There are a couple of theories on this, and it's interesting. I'm seeing some of this play out right now in the private equity world. There are a couple of approaches. Number one is if you're trying to build a big, if not coast-to-coast, semi-national company, working with a private equity firm that's going to help you roll up smaller competitors in strategic territories can be very, very successful. But you are jumping into bed with folks who look at money completely differently than your typical entrepreneur does.

They're going to give you the financing. You're going to be able to buy up competitors. But then you have to assimilate them into your organization, put your playbook in place. And when done correctly, roll-ups are incredibly profitable, both for the entrepreneur and the financing folks who come there. We've seen Hanson's out of Michigan, which is in the roofing, siding, gutters, window space, has just been purchased by a private equity firm, and they're being merged with other similar types of companies around the country, running the Hanson Method, as far as I know, to try and generate existing company footprint by footprint. So you do it DMA-wise or state-wise. And I've seen this be successful as well. It takes a little longer where you're in New Jersey and then you say, you know what, Connecticut, Long Island, and Westchester, New York

all look like territories to go to. You're already going to have some fringe benefit from all the marketing. You're already doing that in New Jersey for those areas. And you can move that way as well as you're trying for larger. It's a lot faster to try to roll up. It's also a lot harder. Being able to assimilate businesses into your existing company is often much harder than just extending the reach of what you're doing.

So those are kind of just the two ways that I would look at it. And there are probably more sophisticated folks than I can tell you about it, but I know those are the ways people are doing it right now. So I think when it comes to mergers and acquisitions, there's two theories and one of my buddies just bought five air conditioning companies and he said, you could go after the one, two and three and four guys. He goes, but you're also buying their infrastructure and that costs money, a lot of money. And he goes, or you could buy six, seven, eight, nine, 10, 11, 12.

And they don't have the infrastructure, the systems, but a lot of them get a lot of leads. See, what I look at is how much money you're spending on advertising. If you're in the Val pack with me and the money mailer, I'm like, I'm already doing this, you know? So I look for people that stopped marketing 10 years ago. They got four trucks and they're getting the leads because the leads are the lifeblood. The leads are the stickers in there. They're everything. And I made a list of what it's going to take for me to get to 250 million, just a quick list of 10 things. And I'm just curious thoughts so i got on here the affiliate recruiter which there's a company i'm sure you heard of uh empire today yeah they're a flooring

company and i know three of the recruiters over there they work on different things like commission junction and things of that nature yeah google's changing the game when it comes to affiliates though so i don't know if that's a long play or not. I want the outbound call center team because in garage doors, there's no such thing as outbound. Nobody's doing it. I need more recruiters. I need to get better quality technicians off the bat that I can train quicker

and turn them into machines. Home show event specialist, you mentioned that. Garage door school, I want to be recruiting people out of high school and out of college, just getting them quicker. Mergers and acquisitions team. An outside sales coach, which means we're hiring a couple outside sales in each market. More email marketing. Definitely want to do way more with social media. And then a door-to-door, like you said, canvassing team.

And all those things are monsters though. They're not small things. So, you know, I know somebody might be watching this and I think for most people, Todd, this podcast is probably overwhelming for the small guys and they got to start thinking about this stuff. If you're a company of, let's say, 10 employees or less, let's just do do 10 technicians what would be your best advice for the next couple years as far as it's either sink or swim right now because the vcs are coming in they're they're doing this yeah you're gonna get crushed so what would you tell those guys so it's an interesting time where you know traditionally you know having been in the

business now for you know almost 13 years you know, having been in the business now for, you know, almost 13 years, you didn't see a lot of private equity and big capital getting into these businesses. But they are casting a much wider net and home improvement has fallen into onto their radars. And they're looking for, you know, growing companies that they can then fit a model and a system to, you know, then try and build a much, much larger operation. If you are smaller, there are ways to compete against your competition, you know, your more well-financed competition. A lot of it has to do with good phone work and a lot of it has to do with being just,

if not as responsive, more responsive responsive particularly in your cities and towns that you know if you have 10 techs you may not be in half a state you're going to be in a much smaller area the most common issue i hear with your service types of companies has to do with the reps on the phone returning calls appointments, rescheduling appointments, making sure that you follow up afterwards on the call side. There are hidden dollars in almost every organization just on the phone side where you can take the same lead flow, the same referral amount, the same, you know, your same marketing effort, you can generate 10% more revenue just by being better on the phone and being more responsive on the phone. One of the things I know a lot of folks are still somewhat afraid of is incorporating texting into their calling platforms.

Texting is something that's super easy to incorporate into a CRM system, particularly for younger homeowners who don't want to talk to me right away, but they'll take a text every time and they will respond to that. That I think is an easy way for folks to add to their bottom line. And then they can afford to try and grow more as they are competing against more well-financed players. Yeah, I love that approach. And I've incorporated texting six months ago with a company called Scipio. We also, I just was screwed around this past week before I went to

North Carolina. And I said, any calls you can't book, I want to be the one. We've got level twos that handle those, but I said, give them to me. And believe it or not, three out of the seven I took that day, I called back. I said, Hey, look, I understand you're going to talk to your wife. Hey, I get it. That's a great, Hey, talk to the boss. And, uh, call back two hours later. And he's the one guy who's like, Hey man, I appreciate you following up. He's like, I think we're going to wait a little bit. And I said, well, look, I got a coupon. I got a guy in your area, I get it done for this. And I don't like to be a price guy. I mean, trust me, that's the last thing I want to do is make it

about price. But if inevitably my competition is going to get the work, cause I could just tell by asking several questions, I got his business and I called all of them back and got the business. So how many of those do I get a day that we were not doing correctly? And this is a crazy stat, but I know Susie at call cap pretty well. And she's the one that gave this. She said, if you've got a really well oiled call center and I'm talking the best, you might be able to hit 90%. Now I've talked to air conditioning companies that say they're at 95%. And I say, let me see your call recordings.

Let me see who's classifying those calls. And they say, well, we don't really, I just know that. And then secondly, they say, oh, no, that wasn't a lead. That was a parts call. So it's all in the classification. Then I've got other call centers I've worked with that say we book 62%, but we take everything. Everything counts. Even if it's a solicitor, that still counts as a lead because we don't want to dissect them. You know, there's too much gray area. What are your thoughts on that?

So it's funny, you know, and if you were in one of the early challenges we had was we were generating a lot of phone calls from the online advertising we were doing. And we heard a couple of our clients swear up and down, hey, just give us a tracking number. We are a world-class call center. We're going to answer the phone. You're going to hear how it's done right. And what we found when we listened to the call center was they didn't answer 25% of the calls.

That's just awesome. That's just as a starter. And then never mind your long hold times, your inability to call them back, et cetera, et cetera. So we started our own call center and we have an internal call center now that handles every you? And we answer the phone 99.9% of the time. You can put numbers to this in a way that's really going to make sense and help you improve your business. We use metrics like what percent of calls are answered in more than 30 seconds? What is the average pickup time when somebody calls? How many hangups did you have? All of this, you can put numbers to today better than ever before with simple call tracking solutions. So it's one of the things, as I listen, as I go back to Google Local Services, I listen to hundreds of the calls. The number one problem is a lot of the reps who work at HVAC companies don't like talking to customers.

They say, hey, here's the price. We'll come out and it's going to be three days from now. And then they leave that hanging in the air for a home owner to respond. So it's not a real, it's not exactly selling anybody on the value of the service you're going to provide. They seem to just rush through it and get to the point where, Hey, yes or no, if you want us or not. And I've seen that in the dumpster rental industry, the storage container industry. And my other favorite is how far away from the office is your home, man? And the further away they get, the less they want to talk. It's a very interesting dynamic that happens. What I noticed about the companies that get bigger

and get to that 10 million, 15, 20 million, even bigger than that, is that the folks they have on the phone know how to talk to a customer as people, as homeowners, but also to incorporate the scripting and to make sure they get the qualification in there. And that's how you're able to go out and do so much more in the market. You know you can convert there once they're on the phone. You know, I talk a lot about KPIs, and I've got it narrowed down to eight. more in the market and you know you can convert there once they're on the phone. You know, I talk a lot about KPIs and I've got it narrowed down to eight. And number eight is, number eight, how much money do you want to make your revenue? Or you can put profit in there, but profit's a little bit harder for people to visualize because it just is. And now the top

left, the first one that you get back into is your marketing budget. And if you work it correctly back through the funnel, you look at what's your conversion rate when your tech gets out there. You look at what's your conversion rate if you sell a garage door, how many are refunding or canceling within the three-day contracts or whatever you might have. You look at what's your average ticket. You look at all these things. And most of the time I bring it back to the booking rate. The booking rate is the big problem. And I'm like, don't spend any more money marketing. And I get really disgusted sometimes when I look at the booking rate, if I'm below 75%, it's bad. And I know there's people out there that could book more, but then I talked to these companies that say, we never give price.

We refuse to give price if they never ever give price at all. And I'm the type of guy Todd, that if you, if I call up and I'm calling for tires, I'm going to say, look, I know there's plenty of sizes. I know my size tire. I know what vehicle I want. I don't need a out the door price. I'm just wondering, am I looking at 200 bucks a tire, $250 a tire, $300 a tire? That's why I have free prices. I say it's spring start of this. But you've got to have some of the – if they say, absolutely, we will not give prices over the phone.

We need to get a trained technician out to your home. By the way, he's been drug tested and background checked. We're going to send you a profile 15 minutes before he gets there. Okay, good idea, but still, I need to know how much am I budgeting for. So what do you think? Where do you go with that? What you said was just very interesting because it plays into what the executive is going to say that when you're talking with a homeowner on the phone, it's not just trying to shuffle them through. You really have to sell the value of the visit. I don't know if you're familiar with Dave Yoho and the home improvement space. That's his thing. There's value to having somebody go out to the home to explain the options and

choices that a homeowner has. And so, you know, when I hear phone calls from, you know, an HVAC provider and then, hey, it's $99 for us to come out and we'll give you an S-hour there. That's not selling the value as you just did of here's what's going to happen when we're out there. We're going to look at your entire system. We're going to make some recommendations to you. We're going to find ways to make your home more efficient. There's a way to sell the value of having that person come into the home

beyond just the transactional nature of a call. And I think that's what a lot of large companies do to improve their KPIs. When we talk with our clients, how well are the leads working? Well, they're working well, they're not working well. We zero in on three areas. Number one is, as you said, the booking rate. We call it the appointment rate. And what's the appointment rate?

With our program, it's usually 60% to 80%. You should be able to book 68% into appointments. And then what's the appointment rate? You know, with our program, it's usually 60 to 80%. You should be able to book 68% into appointments. And then what's the show rate? So where somebody is actually in the home when a rep gets there should be 80 to 85%. And then what's the close rate once you're in the home? Should be a third to 40. You know, we've had clients up to 60%. We can find out where the issue is in an operation just with those three right there. Is it if you're getting into the home, so you've nailed booking rate, you've nailed

the show rate, the future call center is doing a good job, but the close rate is low, it seems to be a sales problem. Your sales guys are closing at the right numbers but people aren't showing up you're not doing callbacks confirmation to get there if you know you're getting into the home and closing but you're only getting into 40% of the leads that it's a call center issue so those are things that you know we find from a KPI on Google leads, this would be for apply for Google local services as well. It's a little different on the service side than the

home improvement side, but those KPIs make it fairly evident where you can find the room for improvement. Yeah, I agree. The only one I think that I've had a problem with in the grocery industry is your pricing, because if you're going to go in there and give it away for a $200 profit, that's not true profit. Some people think profit, yeah, if you're working out of your home and your wife works for you for free and you don't pay your taxes, I guess that could be looked at as profit. That's one of the other things I look at is what's your average ticket because you don't have to, you know, I know it's funny that Yoho is, he's like 89 or 90. He just had in a summit, right? It's Baltimore. Yes.

Unfortunately, I didn't get to go to it. I'm going to it next year in Vegas, but I love the fact that it's HVAC plumbing and electrical are these guys that are the mammoths is, you know, I direct energy. Are you familiar with direct energy? The guys that helped start their call center and did a really good job is Dusty and Matt George. And I know these guys pretty well. And then Susie from Call Cap and Dave Shots

now runs the call center. And you know, what's funny is I was working with them on lead gen and they told me right now we got to back off and it has nothing to do with your quality of the lead because they're great, but our booking rate's just, we need a lot of internal things we need to work on. And even direct energy is a monster. They're the biggest home service company in the world.

They're between HVAC with one hour air, and then they've got Benjamin Franklin, the punctual plumber, then you've got Mr. Sparky. I mean, they're the monsters in the space. And even they have problems, probably more problems than I have because the chain of command, the communication at a company that large, it takes a year to have something go through the process. So I had to go to the back door to sell them leads. But it's just sometimes bigger.

I go back to the David and Goliath, you know, David has a lot of, uh, advantages over the Goliath and it's just being able to make changes fast is probably the biggest thing I find with a small company over these big ones is they're able to adapt, change, carry a much higher quality door that came out two months ago or, or, or a better a better, you know, hot water heater. Whereas the other one's got to get the sales process and get this all the way through this huge process. It's interesting stuff. Yeah. And this is, and I just need to, you know, I hope sometimes I don't sound too obvious or flippant about this because I know how hard it

is. Like this is not an easy part of the business for a lot of operators. You've got a million things you have to worry about. It seems like the phone would be easy. You've got to hire, you've got to make sure that the quality of the service is there, collecting your product is a million things to think about. The easy thing to let go is, all right, we've got the call center finished. That part of it is working, is done, we'll let that go. And that's where the slippage can occur over time. And I've seen with clients dozens of times where they think it's perfect, and then all of a sudden they listen to the calls, we point something out,

and I go, wait a minute, we do have an issue on that side. The greatest online leads available, doesn't matter who they come from or anywhere, you don't have the phone work to back them up, it doesn't matter. You're going to be spoiled at the end of the day. Yeah, the other day we had a huge problem because we're posting on Craigslist. I mean, I do every single thing out there and somebody set up a dialer against my company, so we're getting an extra thousand calls a day. And I got rid of the IVR because the IVR actually, I thought was a distraction, but we turned it back on and it's just press one, a book, book a job, press two for anything else.

It was just something that said you're a human because we had all these right now. There's so many robo calls and we needed to do so. And robo calls can get advanced. What are your thoughts on robo calls and kind of really trying to or even selling leads some of the companies i buy leads from i buy from everybody they're like 30 seconds on the phone well 30 seconds on the phone it takes you to get through you know it's bullshit you know it's not gonna happen or even a minute on the phone two minutes what are your thoughts on that? So just as a rule, we would never do robocalls and we don't do IVRs at all.

We think there's a value both to the customer and to us as a lead seller. Having a person on the phone to confirm all of that. I understand why folks do it. You know, people are always trying to grow and that's another way to do it. For many lead sources, you have to judge the quality of what you're getting. And so ultimately, you're going to get 10,000 leads from Robocall and then you're going to look at what your ROI is. Your cost per lead could be six bucks, but if you're not booking and closing those jobs, that's where I would have some issues. I also think sometimes it opens you up to legal issues that you may not know or understand.

Or more importantly, somebody else may not know or understand, cause a headache that you may not deserve, but you're getting anyway. It's not something that I've found to be, you know, the best strategy. We've been offered that stuff all the time, IVRs. And what they usually are they usually are are hey we had somebody purchase a product or be able to leave for something else we're trying to extend the value of that lead by asking hey are you also interested in x y z and if so you know press one press two and they qualify those leads we we've never had any success with those from a real ROI standpoint but that that could just be me. Others can make them work. It's not what we do. You know, there's a company that used to do that. And they used to get a bunch of companies like me and HVAC plumbing, all of them. And they say, give them a gift card for moving in the home. And they would take that lead. And they say it was

always to new homeowners because new homeowners spend, I think they spend 80% of the next 10 years that first year. I mean, it's a crazy number. And they were curious. Yeah, I'd like to get my garage door keypad reprogrammed, but it wasn't a money call. Like you said earlier, the quality of the calls are really important. And I think that there's three ways to make money. You get new customers, that's marketing. You charge your customers more money, which is selling them maybe a hot water heater if you're in their garage, which is Arizona. And the third one is you keep them coming back more, which is your service agreements.

And I'd say all three of those matter. I mean, you might be the best marketer in the world, but you might be just, if you're going out there fixing what I call the MVP, which is if you got a broken spring, that's the only thing I'm looking at. If you got a broken belt on your car, I'm not looking at anything else. I won't look at your brakes. I'm not, not doing an inspection. And then the service agreement, the air conditioning guy I talked to said, Tommy, my companies were so much goddamn money because of one thing, my service agreements,

because I know within three years of going out to this unit, that's the eight years old. I know in three years I'm replacing it. They're going to use me and they're going to pay 15 to 20% more because they like us and they met us for the last eight years. So interesting concepts and I love it. But one of the things that I got is you wrote an article on five different types of homeowner personalities. Can you tell me a little bit about that? I'm curious to hear about that. Sure. And one of the things that our call center has allowed us to do over the years, I've been able to listen to thousands of calls and, you know, I've been able to bucket the homeowners to a degree into kind of, into five different categories, you know know and they are very specific

in terms of personality in terms of how they buy and how they prepare for a purchase and I'll give you the first kind because I'm one of those guys too which is you know I don't have time to call four different providers have them all in to give me competitive quotes. I mean, that's suddenly five, six hours a day. I run a business. I have two small kids. My wife works. I need somebody right now. I call those guys the straight arrows where I'm looking for something fast, honorable, and convenient. Can they get to me quickly? Are they going to give me something that isn't outrageous? And can they do the work quickly with the minimum of hassle? And those straight hours are great because, you know, it's the one thing I left out there, which is what's the lowest cost?

A lot of times, particularly as you start to work with professionals with busy lives, they'll pay a few dollars more for somebody they trust and for somebody who's going to show up and do the job quickly. And those folks are fairly evident. They get impatient on the phone if you try and take them through too much. And what they really want is, hey, I need somebody to come out and take a look at my garage door. When can you be there? You tell them a week from now, it's gone from the top of their head. They've moved on to a dozen other things. You say I could be there tomorrow, you're right on. You're going to book right there. They're going to say yes.

You know, a lot of companies, you know, are struggling right now in the workforce, but they don't have enough reps or enough technicians, and they start to book two weeks out, three weeks out. You've lost a lot of folks at that point.

So you just can't do that. But the straight arrows are very, very profitable customers. You tend to see them in your wealthier zip codes. And so being able to just be prompt, be convenient, and get there is super, super important. You can go on to a couple of the other guys. The one everybody always asks me about is the price monster and the price monster folks are difficult to work with because they go everywhere they can find online and they try and find what appears to be the lowest possible price.

And their context may be completely different than yours. I always use the walk-in tub example. If you look at walk-in tubs procedures online, you can find them to buy those for $1,500 per month. But anybody in the business knows that you haven't brought it upstairs, you haven't torn out the plumbing, you haven't removed the tub, you haven't done all those things. So the real price is going to be $10,000 to $15,000.

The question with the price monsters is how do you overcome their laser focus on the total end price? And a lot of times we recommend that you make a strong offer to these folks. These are offers that almost every HVAC company is going to have on their website. It's going to be, you know, $99 off or $300 off on an HVAC replacement. It's not so much what the offer is, it's appealing for your price sensitive homeowners that they are somehow getting a bargain, that they're somehow taking some dollars away that they wouldn't have ordinarily. They thrive on that kind of, hey, I saved myself X. That gives them comfort and you can often steer them away from just what's the lowest

price, what's the lowest price. Because a lot of times they're just not even in the ballpark. But those offers can make a big difference. Let's see, the last one, and this one is becoming more prevalent, are your social media types. These would be your millennial homeowners, kind of 35, 30 to 40 years old. They're the next wave of homeowners. And what these folks do is very interesting. They're reading reviews, certainly, but they're putting out on Facebook and they're putting

out on their Twitter and their Instagram, hey, does anybody know of a company to help you decide and re roof my house and it taking input from their network of people their trusted folks out there to make a decision about who to call it who to put on the list what they're also doing and this is where the service provider to come in is they're looking at an HVAC company's Facebook page. They're looking at their Instagram. They're looking on their phone for whatever it is that this particular company is doing

online from a social perspective. If they're updating their fees, if they've got recent reviews, if they look like they're active online, that's going to resonate with them much more so than those companies that aren't doing any of that or have a three-year-old review on their website or haven't had a review on Yelp in four years. So they're looking for those active participants in the same social media that they're spending their time on. You see that quite a bit with the younger generations buying homes now. Yeah. You know, that's funny because last year was the first year millennials outweighed baby boomers and the whole paradigm of how we're choosing is changing me.

I'll go online. Like I went online and said, does anybody know any good trustworthy cleaning ladies? Like I guess I'm one of those I'm 35. I guess that, that kind of pins me down is who do I trust? I mean, I've got a lot of friends online. Who do I know that's actually done a lot of purchases, maybe flipped a couple of houses, been through the ringer a couple of times, because I got to tell you, I used to be a price sensitive guy when it came to home improvement. And then I had a leaky roof and this, that, and the other. And I realized I paid 10 times more than I would

have paid just by getting a good company because it went on Craigslist, got a non-licensed guy that promised me the world and you know, shit happens. But I think people are starting to realize that's why we love, you know, your 50, 60, 70 year old, because they want the best quality. They don't care about that. And they're a smarter consumer than my generation is slowly becoming affluent to. You know, I'm really interested and I think everybody is on how to get more leads and that's right up your alley. If you wanted to not do TV, radio, billboards,

and you know, you're gonna spend money on Google, of course, you have to, but tell me some ways I could literally go out tomorrow, maybe some company names, maybe some guerrilla marketing techniques, but not spend a fortune or a PFP program, which I'm doing with the newspapers and getting that all over the country now. But tell me what you would do to generate some quick cash and get some good leads in. So one of the things that is very successful for our clients are non-traditional events.

So everybody knows you can go to a home show. You can go and you can do all that. The question is, where can you get a crowd of people where your competitors won't be? Is there some kind of town fair that you can go into a relatively strong community? And when they have Kids Day on the town green, can you set up a booth there and do a cheap giveaway? You know, give away Starburst to a bunch of little kids. And who do they bring? Their parents who are going to fix up their home.

Getting those events where you aren't surrounded by, you know, four direct competitors and having that space to yourself really does have an impact. I know companies that set up a high school football games. There's a crowd. There's a couple thousand people coming. They're going to be there.

You can get a hold of those folks where you don't have the competition. It's pretty easy to set up. A lot of times it's not at all capital intensive, but you can use the home show stuff that most companies already have and just set it up elsewhere as long as you have a nice person to staff and you can communicate and talk.

A lot of times people will just wander up, you know, I do have a problem with my HVAC system. You know, can I talk to somebody about it? You don't, it takes one or two solid jobs out of something like that to pay for it over and over again. So that's certainly one place that I would recommend is find those events where everybody else isn't there and start like that. I love that one. Barrett Jackson is in Phoenix, and that's one thing we're looking at next year. They've got this Arabian horse show. It's 11 days.

We did that last year, killed it. You're right. A hundred percent, those small events. The hard part about small events is you got to get a good setup crew. You got to show quality products that don't get damaged when you move them, which isn't a big deal as much in HVAC because you know, you got a unit there. You're not showing off a bunch of stuff like garage doors. We got to bring samples. But I met a guy on the golf course who owns Anderson's renewal. It's a window company. And he said, Tommy, he said, we absolutely murder it.

He said, the best ROI times 10. He goes, we go to 68 shows a year. He goes, and I know you're wondering that because some of them are on a Tuesday or a Wednesday. He goes, it absolutely murders it. But you gotta find the right person to do it.

And unfortunately, I've tried door-to-door sales, didn't have the right team. I've tried every event, went through four teams. I've done a lot of things. And just because I failed doesn't mean they don't work. You got to get the right person and then you got to capitalize on it. One of the things you made me think of is Nextdoor. And Nextdoor is growing so fast. It's amazing what you can do on Nextdoor because we trust our neighbors. We do. We believe in them. And tell me a little bit about your experience so far. Have you done anything with Nextdoor? So Nextdoor is really interesting. So I'll tell you just briefly about what we do with keyword that relates to Nextdoor. When we work with Google campaigns,

we don't do any nationwide campaigns or statewide campaigns. Every campaign we do is city to city and town to town. So if we work with somebody who works in 120 cities and towns, we put up 120 individual Google campaigns. So you can say, you know, water heater repair, Redding, PA, water heating repair, Philadelphia, PA. It's a hyperlocal concept.

And so the hyperlocal is really important because homeowners, they don't need a plumber. They need a plumber who can come to their house, but they don't need a garage door guy who doesn't service their area. They need garage door repair in their specific city or town. What Nextdoor does is they take that hyperlocal concept and they put it to an even finer point where you're not just talking about a city or town, you're talking about a neighborhood within that city or town.

And if you can advertise on them, you're reaching folks who are actively engaged, not in their town, but in their specific neighborhood. They may have a thousand houses in that particular neighborhood, and to be able to pinpoint that finally is amazing. The people who use Nextdoor are, hey, number one, they're all homeowners by and large, and they are actively conversing with one another online and soliciting recommendations. So I'm starting to wonder, as Nextdoor becomes more pervasive, I use it all the time, whether or not a Yelp review is good, but I'm starting to wonder if a Nextdoor review

where a homeowner goes online, and I see these on my Nextdoor all the time, hey, we just used this pressure washer here, you did a great job. Here's what you did. That's very powerful because people tend to trust their neighbors when it comes to home services. It's so local and so focused. The one issue for small providers with Nextdoor so far with your smaller HVAC or plumbing services company is that Nextdoor is really looking for a bigger commitment financially up front. They want, you,000 or less, I heard, as a minimum monthly kind of spend. Larger companies can certainly do that, and it's probably paying off for them. I've been doing this for 12 years. It's very targeted, very specific, and I can imagine the ROI would be very strong.

But they haven't evolved a platform to serve the smaller companies yet that I think they'll eventually get to. But once they do, I would recommend everybody give it a trial because it's just so specific. Yeah. One day when we were really, this is, this is, you'll remember these days for eight. It was SEO. As I was building websites, 50 states, and then I'd pick all the large cities, every city. So when you pick on the state, it was another 200 cities. And then we added neighborhoods.

And it was like, I mean, we had tens of thousands of pages per site. And the funny thing is, if you make the homepage rank, and then it was always for garage door repair than the city the state or the neighborhood and what happened is some of our most of the leads it was hard to rank for state it was hard to rank for some cities but the neighborhoods we were the only one doing it and it freaking murdered it because they're our best clientele because who's going to type in their neighborhood usually it was older people because they're like, I just want someone that's in the neighborhood, you know? And it was like, Holy cow, this is amazing. But, uh, you know, we're going on.

Let me talk to you about that because I think it's a very interesting point. And one of the things I think a lot of your folks, a lot of service companies don't understand about how Google works is when you work with what you're doing there, the hyperlocal pages, Google has a whole series of, if you do this, that's illegal, or this is not going to pass shelters. This is not going to do the algorithm. It becomes much easier to rank once you get to phrases that very rarely get entered. They don't put all of those barriers in front of what you want to do. So typing in garage repair,

Arizona, there's a lot of companies that are buying for that. The filters are in place. They're trying to get rid of, you know, content that they think has been duplicated or whatnot. But when you get down to very specific neighborhoods, you get to very long terms,

Google doesn't have to enforce those filters because they don't have other companies to put there. So that real long tail focus can absolutely still work because there's just nobody out there already optimizing for them. And those are easy wins on the SEO side. You know, what's super cool

is I don't do my own PPC anymore. I realized it was a different animal. We used to have all kinds of ninja samurai, SEO, Moz, all kinds of crap. And I just care too much. So interestingly enough, a company we're using right now actually works with ServiceTitan. And I could pinpoint the search term to the money I made on that call. And what that does is I believe that gives me the ultimate advantage because there's certain search terms that might not cost very much, but pay a huge ROI. There's other ones that it might not be best.

It might be best to be 2.4 rather than 1.2 for the cost of spending and the volume I need. So I know that probably sounds like Latin to most people, but you and I know exactly what it is. And that just means where I'm at in the search terms. But the Google guarantee is throwing all this stuff off. Everything I thought I had figured out in the last 10 years is kind of going out the window. It's kind of scary because I like predictable,

what's the future is going to look like. And unfortunately right now, it's not there. I just read this book on the airplane yesterday night called bold and by 2025 they're going to have 3d printers i know this is a little off topic but i think you'll actually find this interesting as uh they said there was three revolutions that have happened that created what human beings are today number one was the steam engine which created the natural revolution across the United States. And it just created this huge opportunity for the industrial revolution.

You know, you can produce more food and everything else. And the next one was Henry Ford with the assembly line. If you produce enough of them, you get the price way down. So manufacturing. And the third one is 3D printing because now they can print organs. Now they can print. So they're launching by 2025 these 3D printers into space where they're not going to need to send anything else up to space.

They can produce it then and there. And now the crazy thing in this book called Bold was they're going to actually pull resources out of space to create the stuff, which is nuts. I mean, it's just a whole different mindset. But the reason I break this up in this home service expert podcast is technology exponentially is nothing like linear. They used to be linear. You could double next year, maybe, but when you double, double, double, double, double, the guy said, if I had steps 30 steps linear linear i'm in my neighbor's house

30 steps exponentially i'm from california to new york 10 times over again so it's just a huge concept because it's scary to me but i'm embracing change and i think that's what this is all about is being so let me let me leave you with this because i think it's going to play to what you're talking about in terms of change. One of the things that I see happening over the next 10 years, it's already happening now to a degree, but virtual reality from phones is going to really dramatically alter the way services are delivered to homeowners. Homeowners, particularly young kids, are going to be able to take movies of their heating system. They're going to be able to take movies of their heating system. They're going to be able to take movies of their plumbing.

They're going to be able to take movies of a kitchen remodel. And they're going to send those to providers who are then going to be able to diagnose issues because they can see everything. They're going to see it in 3D virtual reality. They're going to understand what the nature of the issue before a tech even leaves the building to go see that homeowner. It's not going to work in every case, but it's going to work in some cases, and that's going to help companies choose, who do I send to that job? What do I want them prepared to try and work with the homeowner on? Is this something I need to send my top teams out? Can I send somebody with less experience out? There are all sorts of ways that service companies are going to be able to optimize

the way their services are delivered if virtual reality becomes something that's adopted on the cell phones. Because I see companies going out, they even send a salesperson out. They send somebody with a phone to take measurements and then them with the price you know they can do that in the carpeting world they can do it the door replacement world and where they don't have to guess at it they send somebody buying a car it takes five minutes it's convenient for the homeowner and they can go from there so i think virtual reality is going to have an impact with in the home service space really in the next probably five to ten years. 100% agree.

I'm working on a software called Simulator Pro. It simulates the door on the home, but you press a button, and it'll send the whole neighborhood before and afters of that home. And a lot of these manufacturers have stuff like that, but it's only for that manufacturer. I want something I can put my own custom doors in and every other manufacturer and show the customer you want a wood door I'll show you the top 10 and it's all from 10 different companies and it's giving the customer a better experience because that when it comes down to it all Google and HomeAdvisor and everybody wants they don't care about what you charge the customer you got to be within reason but you got to create a wow

experience and that's what it's all about yeah but. But Todd, I got a bunch of stuff, but I'm just going to leave it with, give me one thing that you want to leave the audience with in a couple of books you recommend. And then I want to just talk to you a couple of minutes after just real quick. Sure. No problem. So a couple of things. Number one, if you haven't, if you've been doubtful about local services, you really need to take a swing at this. And I've heard from a number of folks in the HVAC spaces that we haven't been up on Google Local yet. And we're finding that our phone calls are lessening and we're seeing competitors who are up there all the time. So it is a lot of work. I would do it and I would

make it a priority because it's something that can linger if you don't go through the background checks. So certainly go through and do that. I'm going to shamelessly plug my blog, keywordconnects.com slash blog. I write every two weeks specifically about online marketing for home improvement. And it's one of the very few blogs out there that just focuses on that topic very specifically. Now, in terms of books, I was an English major and I'm a bit of a nerd. Are you looking for my literary background here or for my business background here? Okay, let's do this. You're just getting into business. Todd's 18 years old. He's starting an HVAC company.

What three books does he have to read to give him the ultimate advantage over any other books? Oh, boy. So you're really putting me on the spot here. So the book that I read when I started Keyword Connection, I think there's two of them now. One is called The E-Myth, and then the other is the e-myth revisited. And so those two have been super, super helpful to me, and I'll tell you why. As a company owner, you want to run around and solve every problem. You know, the initial instinct is I want to jump in.

I want to answer those questions. I want to correct this. I want to, you know, be as actively and intimately involved with every issue. What you lose there, and this is the big lesson of the e-myth, is that you end up working in the business, and it's much less satisfying than working on the business itself. And that was what the e-myth really helped. It's a difficult translation, particularly if you're not terribly well financed,

to get out of the day-to-day. What the EMIS will tell you is that you are ultimately going to generate significantly higher revenues and significantly higher profits once you do withdraw yourself from the moment-to-moment operation of the business and you focus on how you build an organization and a series of processes that are going to ultimately help you succeed more. It certainly helped me. We hired a great sales guy, and I find myself talking with clients,

and what I started to notice was the more I talk, the less business we got, and the more my new salesperson talked, the more business we got. And so I started to withdraw and withdraw and withdraw. Numbers went up. I became happier. Everybody was doing better because the numbers were there. So I'd look at both e-myth books. The third book, and I'll do this because it's a personal favorite, it's kind of a business book, is The Big Short. And if you have never read the big short it is a great treat you don't have to understand all the finance here but a lot of folks are gun-shy right now about you know that we haven't had a correction while we

haven't had a recession it's coming there's a big drop coming the big short is a really interesting book that talks about how outsiders viewed the financial system before the crash and how some of them spotted the issues there. What I took from that book is, if you can stand outside of whatever you're doing and look at it as somebody from outside of the crowd, you're going to really understand things differently than your competitors are. And so, if you can look at it as a complete outsider, as best you can, you're going to have a perspective I think can be very valuable. That's great stuff. So if somebody wants to get more of you,

what's the best spot that they could get ahold of you? Is there an email or a website? So you can go to keywordconnects.com and's that's our website our phone number is right there you can always reach us that way you can reach me at todd t-o-d-d at keyword connects.com and if you found any of this helpful uh sign up for the blog updates i do put a lot of work into this it's all original everything i write is very specific and often contrarian. I don't, I'm not a go with the flow kind of a writer. So if you're looking for, you know, more of a straightforward perspective that cuts through

a lot of the BS out there, I think the blog is, we've got about 10,000 readers right now. And it's become pretty well known in the remodeling space. So check it out at keywordconnects.com slash blog. Awesome. Well, listen, I, I want to do this again because I love the fact you said you sold your business and now you're, you're still big part of it. Maybe in six months I want to dig into what you're doing more and I can't wait to see how this Google stuff plays out and have you back on.

And I'm going to sign up for the blog right when we get off here. So thank you very much for doing this today on a Saturday. And I'm going to sign up for the blog right when we get off here. So thank you very much for doing this today on a Saturday. And it means a lot to me. Hey, no problem. And I hope you liked it and give me a calling sign. It'd be great to be on. All right. This was a home service expert podcast. Now I've got some great news for you. You want more money, time, and freedom? If yes, I put together a free training session where I reveal my four-step process to grow your service business up to eight figures without having to compromise your freedom. Check it out at homeserviceexpert.com forward slash webinar.

If you're working too hard and you're not getting results, you better watch this training session now. Just go to homeserviceexpert.com forward slash webinar.