The Home Service Expert Podcast - Grow Your Business 100x Through The Franchising Model

Episode Date: February 27, 2018

Nick is the owner, co-founder, and president of College Hunks Hauling Junk, the largest and fastest growing U.S.-based hauling and moving company. In this episode, we talked about branding, booking calls, company culture…

This is the Home Service Expert podcast with Tommy Mello. Let's talk about bringing in some more money for your home service business. Welcome to the Home Service Expert, where each week, Tommy chats with world-class entrepreneurs and experts in various fields, like marketing, sales, hiring, and leadership, to find out what's really behind their success in business. Now, your host, the home service millionaire, Tommy Mello. Good afternoon to all my listeners out there. Thanks for tuning in today. I have a really

amazing guest. His name is Nick Friedman, and I'm pretty positive you've already heard of his company. It's College Hunks Hauling Junk, the largest and fastest growing U.S.-based hauling and moving company, providing collegiate teams to move your home and business and remove unwanted items in your commercial and residential properties. Listen, Nick's been featured in a ton of books, textbooks. He's been on Forbes, Fortune, and other national publications. He was also featured in a Newsweek Story and College, College Kid to Millionaire. Nick's company has been profiled numerous times on CNN, MSNBC, CBS, NBC, Fox News,

and even the Home for Renfrew show. He's also been on ABC's Shark Tank, Bravo's Millionaire Matchmaker, and CNBC's Blue Collar Millionaire. Nick has even been invited to the White House on MTV's panel about entrepreneurship. He's the fastest growing junk removal franchise in their annual top 100 list of growing franchisors and have been named the top junk removal franchise in Entrepreneur's Magazine six years in a row. Listen, this is going to be a great interview. This guy's done it. He's going to tell you all about the pros and cons to franchising.

He's going to tell you all the mistakes he's made along the way, and most of all, how he got so famous. I'm very excited to introduce you to Nick Friedman. Nick, how's your day going? Going phenomenal. Thank you for having me. Yeah, I'm super excited about today. You know, I see you guys everywhere. It's a great concept. I love the story

and you've been all over the place. You've been all over the news, Google, Facebook, NBC, CNN, Shark Tank, you name it. Tell me a little bit about the whole startup, how you guys even got the idea and how it just started to take off over the years and where you're at today. Sure. So I was really brought up to kind of follow the more traditional career path. I never said I wanted to be a junk removal magnate when I grew up or a moving mogul. But, you know, we were brought up to kind of study hard, get good grades, get a degree and enter the corporate world. Well, the summer before my senior year of college, I was home for summer vacation. And my buddy from high school and I, we were looking for some ways to make some extra money. And his mom had this beat up cargo van that she said we could borrow. So we were sitting around

the table and we were just kicking around names and ideas. And we came up with college hunks hauling junk. We thought it was a catchy way to make the phone ring. And sure enough, people had a need for the service. They thought the name was sort of a pattern interrupt. And we ended up writing a business plan our senior year of college and entered into an entrepreneurship competition. So that gave us a little more confidence in the idea, a little more credibility to the concept. And then we graduated.

We got corporate jobs briefly and said, you know what, let's quit our jobs and start the business full time. And, you know, there were some skeptics. People were raising their eyebrows saying, you know, you're going to quit your job to do what, haul junk? And the company's going to be called what, college junk? Are you sure you're going to throw away your college degree to start a trash removal business? But we were passionate about it. We used that as sort of motivation and fueled us to prove everybody wrong and grew a pretty successful

operation up in the D.C. area and began franchising it a few years later. We now have over 100 franchises around the country, thousands of employees. We operate a centralized call center that books the appointments for all of our franchise owners around the country. And it's just been an awesome journey along the way. Yeah, that's incredible. I mean, you guys, how did you grow from zero to 100? I mean, I know a lot about franchises and I know it's expensive. I mean, you can spend a half a million dollars getting going on it. Tell me about how it became a franchise in some of the early days. Yeah, so when we first started, we were literally doing all of the work ourselves. So we're driving the trucks, we're hauling the junk, we're answering the phone.

And, you know, I would tell the story on multiple occasions. So we had the 800 number routed to our cell phones, and we'd be multitasking in the truck, so maybe swerving a little bit. People would call the 800 number on the back of the truck to complain about this erratic driving, and I'd be the one in the driver's seat answering the phone saying, we don't condone that type of driving in our company. We'll tell those guys to be safer out on the road. So we were kind of faking it until we made it back then, and we actually started to burn out a little bit. There was only so much stuff that two guys could move in a single day.

And one of our mentors recommended to us this book that I recommend to everybody since then. It's called The E-Myth Revisited by Michael Gerber. And it's really sort of a handbook for entrepreneurs. And one of the key messages there is if you want to grow, if you want to scale, you have to work on your business, not just in your business. You need to create systems and processes for your business to replicate and grow. So that was really the big light bulb moment for us, that if we were going to ever have a second truck, let alone a second location, we needed to start documenting everything that we did. So we got to documenting all the processes and making checklists about how we

drive the truck, how we wear the uniform, how we drive the truck, how we wear the uniform, how we greet the clients, how we load the truck, answer the phone, all those sorts of things that we were just kind of doing. By instinct, we started documenting how we did them. That allowed us to eventually hire people. That allowed us to grow the business successfully at the local level. That introduced us to the notion of franchising. So we got involved with the International Franchise Association. I started learning about what that was going to take. And you're right. You know, it's been a lot of heavy lifting, a steep learning curve. I would say it took us 10 years to get to where we are now,

but we'll probably grow faster in the next two to three years than we did in the first 10, just by virtue of kind of hitting a bit of critical mass and a bit of a breakthrough. So systems was everything in any business, but certainly if you're going to franchise it or if you're going to become part of a franchise and then of course, you know, surrounding ourselves with great people, mentors, advisors and employees to help us make the vision a reality. That's incredible. So tell me a little bit about what are your expectations now?

I mean, I'm going to go through a ton of cool questions and learn a lot more about you and dive into some stuff, but tell me what the vision is. Tell me where you plan on going with this. And when are you going to be? I don't think you'll ever be happy because you sound like a diehard entrepreneur that's trying to continuously grow. But what's the vision? Yeah, you know, so it's funny. We have we have sort of small milestones along the way. And then, of course, you know, a lofty vision, lofty vision that I think is never really attained. For us, our long-term vision is to become an iconic brand, and what I mean by that is a brand that spans beyond the industry that we service.

We're in the moving and junk removal space. We move people's stuff. We haul away people's stuff. But we want to be recognized for being an entrepreneurial launchpad of business owners, an inspiration to students and parents, kind of helping to bring back the American dream. And, you know, if you think about some of the iconic brands that are out there, people will wear a Harley Davidson t-shirt. They don't even drive a motorcycle because in that brand's case, they identify with what that brand represents, sort of the renegade of the freedom, the open road. People will line up to pay $4 or $5 for Starbucks and coffee

when they could go get a cup of coffee for $0.75 at the gas station. It's all about the experience and the connection with that particular brand. So that's really what we're trying to build long-term. Numerically or financially, within the next three to five years, we anticipate being well over 200 franchises. So doubling in size in terms of our number of franchises. Along those lines, we want to be a $200 million franchise system, which means that, you know, each of our franchisees will be averaging a million dollars in annual top line revenue. And once that's said and done,

I think we'll be pretty well saturated in the local junk removal and local moving space. At that point, we might look to leverage our platform into, you know, long distance moving or storage solutions, something that can really leverage the platform that we've already built. But as an entrepreneur, one of the hard lessons I've learned over the years is it's very easy to start chasing shiny objects and get distracted. Right. And you get distracted at the expense of your main racehorse that has the ability to produce all the victories. And you start starving that racehorse to try to feed these other ideas.

And you end up not having enough bandwidth to do either one of them effectively. So we've tried to stay very focused, and that's kind of our core focus here going into the future is try to maximize the ability of college hunks hauling junk and moving to its full potential first and foremost. Yeah, I always tell the listeners, you know, 10 years ago I always used to say I put my eggs in a lot of baskets, and one of my mentors said, Tommy, if you just focused on one, you'd watch

that basket overflow. And I did that and it's doing really well. And all of us, we start getting into real estate. We say, put your money in real estate. We start doing this, that and the other, but you need to have this cup overfilling first. And it sounds like you've learned that lesson. And it's an incredible lesson because I know guys with HVAC companies, with six guys, and they're doing well. I mean, their costs are really low and they're making extra money, but they're not putting it back in the company. And I think that's one of the biggest mistakes is you're never going to grow. Interestingly enough, I've been doing a lot of research on franchises just for shits and giggles. And Subway started in 1965. It took them nine years. They got to 16 franchises just for shits and giggles and uh subway started in 1965 took them nine years

they got to 16 franchises seven years later they went to 200 but by 1990 they were 5 000 so that was 35 years and then they 2002 they went to 17 000 2008 they went to 30 000 now they're the second largest franchise i think they might have took over took over McDonald's, but it's crazy what happens when you do the E-Myth process and you figure out checklists and make sure everybody's doing it the exact same way, the same time. So I think that's absolutely amazing, killer advice. You know, when I started, I was kind of like you, I started out working 12, 14 hour days, just busting my ass every day working in the business. And I think that it's tough. And I think you got to be able to write this stuff down, but I just don't think it's that easy. You know, some of the people that listen to

this say, well, you know, we hear these guys that did it, but we want to know where to start. And obviously documentation, everything is the first thing. Tell me a little bit about where the process starts, how you hire that first person and how you delegate. You know, let's go through. Think back to 2005 and 2006 when you were just really kicking this off. I mean, just what were the next steps to really get that next to that next level? Yeah. So, you know, the one thing that you hit on that I think is worth reiterating, kind of to address your question also, is there really are no shortcuts in this process and no shortcuts to success. And I think, you know, every time I look back and reflect on moments where I became impatient, where I became trying to, you know, shortcut the process or find a faster way to success, those inevitably were some of my most expensive lessons. Because, you know, to your point with Subway, it takes time to build the infrastructure,

to build the foundation in any business, but especially a service-type business that, you know, requires people and requires reputation and branding and so forth to evolve. So that's one of those things that you're right. Until your primary cup is overflowing, you know, don't try to take the items off of, you know, one opportunity and put them into another just by, you know, hoping you're going to find something that's going to, you know, shortcut the success faster. And then, you know, to answer your question about kind of the early days, it was a lot of trial and error. I mean, when we first started, it was, you know, taking out a pen and paper and writing down what we did during the day. And then eventually we typed that

up into a checklist. And then when we made our first hire, we handed them that checklist and said, hey, you know, here's what you're going to be doing today. And in some cases, that individual did a good job. In other cases, they didn't. And then we had to ask ourselves, well, maybe, you know, do we have something wrong with our hiring system? Are we not, you know, selecting the right people or training the right people the right way for them to do things the way we need them in place. And, you know, I use the term letting go of the vine a little bit. And, you know, that doesn't end no matter what level you're at as a founder. You know, your business is to some degree your baby. But to the extent that you can, you know, put people in place, bring on smart individuals and then let go, that's where the business starts to take on a life of its own where it can function without you. And only recently, this past year, we did a contest where my business partner and I

challenged some of our call center agents to a sales contest for about two hours. And Omar and I were taking live phone calls from customers. And in those two hours, my business partner and I combined, we booked about seven jobs. And then the top sales agent booked 14 jobs in those exact same two hours. So it was kind of like an undercover boss type experience where I said, OK, we literally have people in every role in the company that can do their job better than I can or my business partner can. And that's really, I think, the ultimate goal is where you can get to a point where you trust the individuals and you have the highest quality of individuals to where you can trust them to do the job better than you can yourself. You know, again, it's never going to be perfect and it's certainly not going to happen overnight. But that's, you know, that's what we always were driving towards.

And that's really where we are today. And 10 plus years later. You know, that's so important is I always said the minute I could find somebody that could do sales better than me is when I get out of the field. And then I met this guy and I go, wow, that is amazing. And what I thought was amazing eight, nine years ago is not even a big deal today. And so I got out of the field and I started to document what the biggest best sellers did, who got the best ratings, who didn't take advantage of people. And I can teach it now because I've listened to everybody.

And I always say, you got to do R&D on your top people and you got to figure out how to bring that to everybody. And you need to set a new standard of excellence for your crew. And it's amazing the results that come out of it. And it's not about taking advantage of people. It's not about making empty promises to customers that you're going to pick up their junk for free. It's about just being confident and smiling and talking to them and learning personality profiling and just getting on and off and really setting your guys up for success. And I think that you hit the nail on the head there is when you're, when you're hiring people, you got to have a process behind it,

but you got to take the best and make that part of the day to day. And I love that story. It's huge because the undercover boss and just knowing that your people could do it better than you. And there's not a lot of roles in here that I don't believe that I don't have better people than me. There's, there lot of roles in here that I don't believe that I don't have better people than me. There's no way in hell. I mean, I've got the best of the best and we pay better than any other company in the industry. So I love that piece of advice. And it's something for you

listeners to think about. You got to give trust. You know, I don't even open my own mail. I do not open one piece of mail unless it looks like it's a card for a wedding or something. Otherwise, I don't even look at it. And I've got a controller. I've got a controller assistant. I've got my own assistant. I mean, I've got all these people around me to help me be more successful because time management and organization are not my strengths. But if I get those, it's so good.

So, you know, a lot of people think about guys like us. You know, we're successful. Of course, we could throw money at a problem. Tell me about something you're dealing with to this date, something that's maybe you're talking with your managers and your partner or whoever, and tell me about something you're going through that just basically humanizes you to the listeners

and says, you know what? Even though he's super successful, 100 franchises, millions of dollars, he's still one of us. You know, I think that I think the one thing that is consistent, no matter what size business you are, whether you're a one or two man operation, or whether you're a, you know, one or 2000 person team, you're never going to not have people issues. And what I mean by that is that, you know, human beings are human, we're emotional beings. And you're, no matter how great of a culture you have, no matter how great

of a culture you strive to be, you're always going to have individuals that are not 100% satisfied with, you know, the environment that they're in. And that could be for a multitude of reasons. Some of it could be the culture that you've created. Some of it maybe means that the individual is not the right fit. But inevitably, it's going to create headaches because it's going to, you know, be issues that have to be addressed and that are going to distract you from the day-to-day. So, you know, we're not immune to those situations either, whether it's an employee or a franchisee,

dissatisfied or unfulfilled. And rather than, you know, look for ways to improve it, you know, decide to try to, you know, light fires amongst other people to exacerbate the problem. And I talked to some of my friends who have world-class company cultures and appear to be, you know, perfect at the surface level. And I hear that they're dealing with some of the same challenges and frustrations. So it just kind of reminds me that, you know, that's par for the course, you know, that's one of those challenges that, you know, if it were easy, everybody would do it. And being able to effectively influence and handle personalities of all different types are certainly one of the skills that, you know, makes great entrepreneurs

and great leaders more effective. So, you know, we deal with that to this day, and I don't think that'll ever change. And that's one of those things that, you know, probably frustrates all business owners. And maybe it's a little bit more apparent when you're smaller, because if you only have two or three people and, you know, one of them's an issue, well, that's a third of your company. Right. The goal is to get, you know, as your business and, you know, one of them is an issue, well, that's a third of your company. Right. The goal is to get, you know, as your business grows, you know, and you have one or two people issues, maybe it becomes two or three percent of your company.

And so that I think is probably the biggest maybe difference between, you know, based on size. But believe it, man, we still have those challenges. And sometimes it's not even that fraction model that I just described. Sometimes it's linear. So if you have 100 people, then you've got now 30 individuals that are causing headaches for you. You've got to address that and try to prevent it going forward. So I think that's probably the human side of any business owner, but certainly we're not immune to it. Yeah, that's a great point. I mean, you got to nip it in the butt. There's bad apples in every business. And all I look for is a willingness. If you want to grow and you're not perfect, sometimes I look in else, man, these guys are treating us fair.

They don't do this. They don't do that. It's a bad apple. You need to get those people out as quick as possible. There's no excuse for that. But, you know, I 100% agree. I mean, the people, the people are the biggest thing. We talk about processes.

We talk about the e-myth. And you should have a process to get the right people and you should have a process to get rid of because we make mistakes sometimes we hire the wrong people so getting them out or we call it top grading you know always be top reading always be recruiting because if you're not you you end up in a position where you're just filling the office or maybe your service people with warm bodies saying i just lost two guys i need to two guys. And that's not the way to do business. Tell me a little bit about that because I guarantee you, you've been through it to where you like,

holy shit, we're slammed. I need to hire two more guys. And it hasn't worked out because you just, you fit, you just took the first two guys that came in. Yeah. I mean,

that happened from day one and it still happens to this day. And, and, you know, I just came from a franchise development conference and, and, you know, I mean, that happened from day one, and it still happens to this day. And, you know, I just came from a franchise development conference, and, you know, there was 100 CEOs of franchise companies of all different types and, you know, retail, service, food, you name it. And the number one challenge and frustration that every single one of their franchise owners shared is the challenge and frustration of hiring and retaining good people. So, you know, I think back to the early days, we didn't really know how to hire or look for good talent. We were literally just putting warm bodies and then, you know, banging our heads against the wall when individuals were not producing or were causing issues or were not showing up on time or were not showing up at all. And, you know,

we started having to put those systems in place first, selecting the right people. And then secondly, putting some measures in place to make sure they're properly trained and also, you know, properly held accountable for, for the things that they're doing on a daily basis. You know, even, even like I said, to this day, you know, we still deal with those types of situations and our franchise owners deal with those situations as well. You know, probably the biggest challenge, especially, and it's not going

to get any easier, by the way, for any small business, because, you know, there's high employment right now, low unemployment. There's also, you know, raising minimum wages. There's also, you know, alternatives of employment like Uber or, you know, Lyft that people can go and do that kind of make their own schedules. So recruiting and creating a culture where people want to be there, where all-star people want to be there through a set of core values and vision and purpose, those are the things that are going to, I think, help set companies apart from their competitors because there's always going to be demand for the services, but those that can provide the solution to that demand uh most effectively are going to be the ones that

are win in the long term yeah yeah it's so important and you know what i hated is hearing guys like us five years ago go it's all about finding your why and it's about leadership and culture and i go shit yeah right now i'm dealing with people stealing from me right now you know so so it was like first thing i had to do is do drug test and background checks and that really helped clean it up and you know i changed the culture and it's really hard to go back to the mindset because i've got a completely different paradigm shift now of going back to the day when i used to be that guy that a lot of the listeners are. And there's nothing wrong with it, because if I wasn't there and I was given it to me, it would just be I would have never known what I know now.

So there's nothing wrong with have in common that everybody that's been on this show the comment is that they've been through the same shit that a lot of you guys and gals that are entrepreneurs are going through and and listen it's not an easy road but the reward is worth it and you guys sometimes a lot of people go and they start their own business and then what I've noticed is as the economy gets better they go work for somebody else because they go, I can make the same amount of money, but I can be home at five or six. I can now work weekends. I could get my vacations back with my family. And don't feel like you're giving up if you do that. I don't think you're quitting. I don't think it's a mistake if that some people were just not cut out and it's nothing wrong or nothing bad to say. And you might be a better employee because just like in the e-myth,

some of us are better workers than we are owners. And the personality profiling and stuff is can you handle stress and anxiety? And can you handle people? Because if you can't, it's not an easy road. So I really love that. And one of the things that I talked to another guy at another podcast is he said, finding your why,

but he said, don't, it's not always about what your why is. It's why will people follow you? Okay. Why are they going to follow you into battle? Why are they going to work for you? What are you going to do for them? And it might not be money. It might be just the way they feel part of a team and the culture you build and the way that you're, you're making them stronger every day. So I really think that you nailed it, Nick, with a lot of the stuff you said about just the mission and letting people understand where you're going and how you're going to get there.

And if they feel like they're part of it and they're on that bus, they're going to go with you. So, you know, we dive into these processes and you said that was probably the most important thing that you learned from the get-go. And I studied that book. I probably bought over 100 copies. I give it to every one of my managers.

But we know hiring and recruiting is probably the most important process you could do. But tell me another process that you've developed in your business that really was a complete shift. It changed a lot of stuff within the business. You say outside of the vision values culture stuff no i'm just saying you know was it was it one of the biggest things nick is people don't book phone calls they don't answer their damn phone and they go yeah you know that tell me about booking calls a little bit oh we actually i'm glad you asked that so so you're it's something so simple as answering the phone literally puts you in front of,

you know, puts you ahead of 90% of your competition. So we operate a call center here, essentially the book, the appointments for all of our franchise owners. And one of the reasons we do that is, you know, we realize how tough it is to answer the phone when you're out in the field, putting out fires, hiring people, going to people, you know, client estimates. And, you know, the last thing that you have the ability to do in many cases is pick up the phone or you'll figure, hey, I'll call those people back. Well, if you miss that call or if you don't have somebody there to answer the call, chances are that person won't call back or won't answer the call when you call them back because they've moved on to the next listing on Google or Angie's List or Yelp that they're looking

for this service. So I read a statistic somewhere that I think it was one out of ten service companies actually answers the phone on the first call, you know, on the first call attempt from a customer. And the likelihood of a customer booking when somebody answers the phone drops from like 70 percent to less than 30 percent if the phone isn't answered on the first call. Same thing with speed to lead. If somebody sends a web request on your website and they want a quote request, they want you to call them back for a quote. If you don't call them back within the first five minutes, the likelihood of that lead ever being converted drops below 30% from above 70%. So

the speed to lead and answering the calls are really, you know, two X factors in any service business. We actually implemented an automatic dialing system so that when a web lead comes in, it automatically dials out to the customer and connects that customer to one of our call center agents. But even back when we, before we had the call center, you know, we made it a priority to answer the phone. We made it a priority to call web leads back immediately because, you know, especially a it a priority to answer the phone. We made it a priority to call web leads back immediately because, you know, especially a web lead, if somebody submits that web form, they're in the buying mode and the buying mentality right now.

When you call them back three hours later, now that they're at the supermarket or they're picking their kids up from school, they're either not going to answer their phone or they're not going to be ready to book with you because they've kind of shifted their mindset. So that made a big difference. I mean, that sets us apart from the other mom and pop moving and junk removal companies that might be out there. It's something as simple as answering the phone, doing it in a professional manner and doing it in an expeditious manner to be able to help the person on the other line.

I love that. Listen, 45% of the home service industry, that's how many calls get booked. That's the average. Now, people don't do you in or expect they do what you inspect so i've really been able to grow a lot fonder and closely to a company called call cap and they've got that every time a four-wheel gets filled out it dials the company you press one to connect you with that customer genius they're in the buying mood you sell them anytime you want to use customer. Genius. They're in the buying mood. You sell them. Anytime you want to use HomeAdvisor or Porch or Yelp, the same technology exists. Secondly, you've got to have stats. You've got to be able to measure people.

And you don't want to measure them on attitude because that's a gray area. Measure them on booking rates. Measure them on how long it takes them to book a call. Measure them on how many times they were able to get over rebuttals because you can tell those calls and you can use call assurance. And I'm not pushing just call cap. There's call sources, other things out there, but I'm a big fan of call cap because they got call assurance. A third party listens to it. They grade the call if it's booked, if it's not, if it's a solicitor. But 45 percent, we can do better than that. The best call centers in the world,

direct energy, who I work with on a daily basis, huge franchise, the biggest home service franchise in the world. These guys have 1400 people in their call center, 200 outbound, 1200 inbound. And guess what? They don't even book this, but 90%, your goal should be 90% because if you're booking more than that, you're wasting your time. You're probably going out to shitty opportunities. But if you're booking 9 out of 10, you're the best. You need to pat yourself on the back. But if you're booking half of that, that means don't do any more marketing.

Don't do any more hiring. Freaking figure out your phone problems and answer the damn call because I'll tell you, it makes a huge difference. The CSRs who book the calls could set you up for success or they could set you up for failure. And I just love, I mean, it's a huge passion of mine because I'm a marketer by nature. And if you're not going to, if you're going to do all this marketing and not book the phone calls, really look in the mirror, guys. I just got to tell you, it's something I get upset about because I just, I sell leads to people, right? I'm in the lead gen space. I just got to tell you, it's something I get upset about because I just I sell leads to people. Right. I'm in the lead gen space.

And then I say, you guys got to answer your phone. I got to charge you for this. It was a customer. It's a local area code. Well, I didn't get time. I was on a ladder. Well, then why are you buying leads? Why are you doing marketing?

But, you know, we're going into I love this is my favorite subject I'm going into because over the last two years, I've become intimate about CRMs. And that's your customer relationship management system. And I mean, mine has, it's got artificial intelligence where it grabs a bunch of data and it knows who to dispatch on that call. It text messages the customer on the way. It tells them like Lyft, where they're at, how far away far away they are i mean it does everything from reconcile bank statements because it talks to my bank i mean the most advanced freaking technology in the world and it's exciting for me because we're building apis and bridges into all kinds of customer reputation management everything tell me a little bit about, because I guarantee you,

there's probably not a better person that's been on this show to talk about a CRM because you cannot have a franchise without having a way to detect how those franchises are doing. So, Nick, let's dive into that. Tell me all about what you guys set up and why you love it, what you don't like about it, and why people need to get on a system like a CRM or they're not going to be able to survive? Yeah, great question. So when we first started, obviously, we didn't have a large budget to work from, and we didn't have a sophisticated team to develop anything. So we just kind of took an off-the-shelf franchise management platform and kind of squeezed it as a square peg into a round hole of our business.

And it worked, and it was functional, and it kind of got the job done. But once we started having the resources and the vision to create some competitive advantages by leveraging technology, then we were able to hire some talented programmers and some talented individuals to essentially develop our own CRM or relationship management tool that would integrate with our call center, that would integrate with our franchise owner operations and their calendars, that would manage the price list and the schedule and the client information and marketing information and so forth. So it's really sort of a centralized, integrated resource for us to operate the business. It kind of ties everything together.

Right now we're in the process of moving it to mobile, into a mobile field app where our hunks, our guys on the truck, can actually close out job, update information, reschedule, and follow up with appointments. Clients will be able to see where our trucks are relative to the pickup and drop-off point, similar to like an Uber tracking system. So those are some of the things that we're doing. And we love it. I mean, technology is a facilitator to make the client, ultimately, and the way it should be thought of is that,

you know, how do I make the client experience better? But also as a business owner gives you so much insight into the metrics, into, you know, things like booking percentage or into things like average job size or, you know, frequency of purchasing of the client. So those are the tools and the metrics that we look at with our CRM that really do make a difference. So, yeah, I mean, the CRM is your KPIs and the more KPIs you could drill on, the better you're going to get. And there's some people that look at a thousand and it's way, way, way, way, way out of the even scope of what they should be looking at. You should focus on five to 10 and master

those. And once they're mastered, move on to different, more, better efficiencies for the company. But really you need to, you need to think about impact areas of your business. You need to break it down into 10, 15, maybe 20 impact areas, call booking rate, attendance rate, time on job, average ticket. Believe it or not, when I didn't have my CRM that I'm using now, I had no idea how many jobs we'd book and the guys were walking away with zeros from. So that to me is just ridiculous. They booked us out to come fix their garage or replace their garage and we're walking away with nothing. And these are just so very important. And I can't stress enough that people still using paper.

I understand where you're coming from. I mean, I use paper for a very, very long time and it's fast and it is somewhat efficient, but you're never going to grow. And with the new era, we're going into 2018. I mean, it's crazy. And it's hard to believe because I was never such a big fan of technology but now if you don't hire you know in a garage industry it's hard to believe that we call him this but he's a cto he's a chief technology officer he focuses on our crm all the time he does a lot with operations but if you're not focused on that guys like nick are

going to come around and if they're in the same industry you're not focused on that, guys like Nick are going to come around. And if they're in the same industry, you're going to get buried because I've got a call tracking number for every single piece of advertising. I got over a thousand call tracking numbers. I have over 5,000 websites. And the thing, the reason is, is I've got a private blog network, but with the data that I collect, I'm able to bury to bury people i mean they don't stand a chance so i'm just telling you guys i know it's something you don't want to do but take the leap take that leap because if you don't you you're going to realize there's growing pains of taking the leap you're going to lose a couple employees because they don't want to do the the ipads and stuff but

it's worth doing it so you know and one of And one of the things I'll mention, too, just, you know, because I'm sure you have a spectrum of listeners, of both, you know, startups, to small, to medium, to large, you know, business owners. One thing that happened to me early on when I was, you know, when we were a lot smaller, is I would listen to calls or blogs or podcasts like this, and I would get a little bit overwhelmed because it seemed like, oh, my gosh, you know,

I got so much stuff to do, and, you know, it's going to be years before it all gets done. And, you know, looking back, yes, it's been 10 years for us to get to this point, and it's, you know, literally bite-sized chunks to get there. So when you think about some of these things and some of these opportunities, like technology or like setting up some sort of call solution, you know, to field the calls, don't feel like it has to get done overnight. Don't get overwhelmed by the notion that you don't have it yet, because a lot of people get sort of paralyzed by the fact that they've got so much to do

or they get overwhelmed and, you know, anxiety takes over, and that's where the sleepless nights come in. And I was really impacted by a lot of those things as I'm thinking back as we're talking through this, because all the things that you just mentioned, you know, we didn't always have. And when I would think about wanting them and wishing we could have them, I would get kind of overwhelmed. And like I said, patience is one of those, you know, powerful, powerful tools for an entrepreneur. And yes, you need to also have a little bit of urgency to want to, you know, keep moving things forward. But you also have to have patience so that you don't, you know, get overwhelmed or, or, or flustered by the fact that you don't have everything in place right away.

Pick, pick your top three or four priorities each quarter, focus on getting them done, move the ball forward, you know, put some things for, you know, in the future we'll, we'll get this done. And then, you know, tackle those when you're able to. So I figured that that'd be worth mentioning just cause I you know as you were talking yeah back to when when we didn't have all those things and if i heard heard you saying all that be like yes i need that and then i'd be like oh my gosh where you know how do i get all that i need it tomorrow yeah exactly it's scary and and the first day i gotta tell you adam is one of the reasons this company is

successful he's my general manager He's worked here three years. And he's just he's really good at a lot of things. I mean, so he always took on too much in the beginning. And I said, Adam, just write down what you're doing day to day. And what you realize what will evolve out of that is the 80-20 rule. OK, and he goes, well, what does that mean? I said, well, you should be focused on the top 20% and you're getting distracted. So I said, write it all down. He did that for a week and he

goes, oh my God, I'm getting so distracted. I'm getting pulled away from what I really need to get done on a daily basis. So he really learned to delegate better. And the biggest thing I see is I think about my cousin. He gets trapped in his business sometimes and he says Tommy I came and saw you business dude I made a list of 20 things to do and I'm gonna knock him out one by one and he got going at it he got through step three step four and he's like dude this is a lot tougher than I thought like holy shit he's like trying to get these systems down pat I'm like dude pick five and just get out of your day-to-day you got to change we got to make a change and people hate that word i mean in the disc assessment i'm a big d just

ready to make changes really really looking to just drive forward and he's just like dude i i don't know man this is tough and i'm but we talk all the time and we focus on one thing and that's an important thing to ask yourself. You know, what am I going to get done today? And here's what I recommend is tell your wife, tell your kids, tell your employees what you're going to get done by the end of the day. Because it's like anything else. If you say you're going to quit smoking and you don't tell anybody, then you're only letting yourself down. And you're like, OK, I'm fine with it.

But if you let everybody else know, it's a huge deal. So I agree wholeheartedly with you, Nick. I mean, it does sound overwhelming, but if you pick one thing a day or a week and you just slowly begin to make these changes, well, it'll happen. And I love the fact because sometimes I get in the groove and we're passionate about what we're talking about and then we forget where other people are at so you know I'm I'm really embracing the fact that I'm becoming a bigger leader you're a massive leader I mean 100 franchises I can't even imagine I mean you got probably an average team of five to ten guys under that so you're dealing with a thousand people what's a what's a good way to empower your employees to grow with the company and to really get them to have the buy-in? You know, so I know you talked about how, you know,

when you first started here and people talk about the whole vision and value thing, you were kind of like, oh, come on, you know, what's so important about this stuff? But, you know, I'm still trying to deal with, like you said, people walking off the job or stealing or whatever the case may be back, you know, back in the early days. But the faster and sooner you can lay that the foundation of an organization that is defined by its vision, its culture and its purpose, its values and its purpose, the more quickly you'll create an environment where people where you can empower people to make decisions as if they are an owner within the company. Because if, if you have basically what your core values are,

and we pick four core values for our organization and, and we talk about them regularly, we give rewards and recognize people for them. And we only wanted four because we wanted everybody down to the frontline employees to be able to remember them. And if you got 12, it's kind of hard to keep track of them all. We wanted to be able to, you know, review a different one each day of the week and that sort of thing. But we use that as essentially rules of the road or rules of engagement or a limit test for making decisions. So if the decisions we make or the decisions your people make are in line with the core values

and are also the individuals are willing to be held accountable to those decisions, then you can empower people in your company to make decisions as if they own the company. And I think that's really the idea behind it. You know, when we first started letting people go out on the trucks on their own and handing people the keys to a, you know, a $50,000 asset and a clipboard and a job sheet, we basically tried to impress on them that this truck isn't just my truck. This truck is your truck as well. And you need to make decisions today as if this truck is your small business.

And you're going to be responsible and accountable to the decisions that you make on this truck. So, you know, starting at that level and then, you know, emphasizing the long-term vision of the organization and the core values that we believe in. And now then as the business grows, people start, it's no longer just the founder, you know, talking about those things or living those things. It's everybody in the organization making an emphasis of it as well. And so I think that's, you know, that's a critical piece to empowering your team so that your business can grow and flourish is giving them the tools to be able to do that. And the tools aren't just the technical tools, but they're the foundational elements of the vision, the values and the culture as well. OK, so you're diving right in right now to the next one. So you wrote the book, The Effortless Entrepreneur, Work Smart, Play Hard, Make Millions.

And I love that because I think the number one thing I tell people about myself is I've become a master of delegation. I mean, delegating is not dumping. Delegating is not dumping shit on people. There's a process behind it. So you got 10 commandments in the book on the effortless entrepreneur. Tell me a little bit about that, which one really stands out. I mean, I know they're all important, but tell me which ones is the key obviously like you said having everybody believe that they have a say and they almost like an owner in the business so let's dive into that a little bit what's what's important to you personally about those yeah so you know right before i get those i you mentioned delegation and one of the things i think is

important to remember with delegation is you know think of delegation as almost like letting a – I don't want to say leash, but letting – to some degree letting a leash out or a rope out with the freedom and decision-making authority that somebody has. So when you first hire somebody, you or your manager is going to be giving that person all the direction, all the directives. You know, do this by then. If you're not sure about how to do something, ask me and I'll tell you how to do it. Eventually, you get to a point where that person can make suggestions about what decision needs to be made. He's like, you know, hey, I got to an early job. This job is going to be longer than expected. The next one, I suggest we call them

and let them know we're running late as opposed to leaving this job undone. And then, you know, the manager might say, yes, that's the right decision or no, go ahead and move on to the next job. The third layer of delegation is they're actually going to make the decision and report back to you. Hey, my second job was, you know, we were going to be late. So we called them, let them know we were running behind and now we're going to go ahead and finish this one. And so then gives you coaching opportunities to either, you know, compliment them on the right decision or, you know, help them make a better decision in the future.

Fourth layer of delegation is really sort of full delegation where they're bringing back, you know, reports at the end of the day. You're evaluating them and coaching them simply based on the numbers, not based on the individual decisions that they make. So I always like that description to me because I think, you know, there's this fear of, you know, how do I delegate to somebody? I think it's sort of, you know, letting somebody out with more and more freedom as you become more and more confident in their ability to make decisions.

So then kind of shifting gears over to the book question that she asked, Effortless Entrepreneur, you know, I think there's two of the commandments that always stood out to me. One is not to sacrifice family, friendships and relationships for business purposes. I think, you know, keeping the bigger picture in mind and what's really important, you know, being an entrepreneur, yes, is a very stressful venture and the business owner is very stressful endeavor. And, you know, we do become, you know, somewhat borderline obsessed with our businesses to the point where, you know, that's all we think about, all we're doing. And, you know,

business is not linear. There's ups and downs, just like life is not linear. There's ups and downs. And a lot of times, you know, they intersect and create, you know, some pretty challenging circumstances. But, you know, putting a priority on your family, on your relationships. I mean, I got into business with my business partner, who I was also best friends with since high school. And we always sort of put our friendship at a premium and at a priority so that we didn't compromise that relationship. So that's number one. The other one is, I think it might have been our last one, which is really ideas are nothing without action. So, you know, ideas are great.

You know, I'm an entrepreneur. I'm a visionary. I'm full of ideas. But at the end of the day, it's all about taking ideas and putting them into action. So whether it's something that, you know, somebody heard on this podcast and put it into motion, the people that are, you know, men and women of action are the ones that make a difference, that make an impact and ultimately add value in their communities and in their businesses. So I would say those are kind of my two favorite ones, just because, you know, they're good reminders no matter where you are and what phase of life or business, you know, they're sort of universal. Those are those are amazing ones. I talk all the time about working with family and friends. And it's I wouldn't say don't do it although i've made a lot of mistakes and i've had relationships that have suffered and it's gone it's gone both ways because

you know it's a very very slippery slope and people want to have people they trust around them but when the shit hits the fan and the company's losing money it's hard to release those people because they're reliant on you. So I don't recommend it per se, although I will say I've done it. But it kind of just ends up happening sometimes. There's nothing wrong with it. I talk about that in my book as well. And then I love your one, take action. So many people, they want to take action, but they're pulled so many different directions. But it really is. It's about the 80-20 rule and slowing down. And what I think one of the most important things to me is self-reflection to say, what did I get done today?

I mean, I get in the shower early morning and I've got a thing in the mirror. I've got it written all over it, a hundred million by 2020. And I plan on beating that goal by a year, but I see that every morning and it makes me think about it. And I talk in the shower and I plan on beating that goal by a year but I see that every morning and it makes me think about it I talk in the shower and I'm doing math you know interestingly enough fun fact Nick and this is super weird but I was talking to a buddy yesterday we're having a beer and he goes do you know why you think so you know why it's a different experience in the in the shower and I said no like I know a lot of people that do a lot of thinking in the shower and i said no like i know a lot of people that do a lot of thinking in the shower and he said well and i don't know how scientifically accurate this is

but he said it's because that's what it's a safe place it's your mom's womb it's the hot it's hot and it's damp and it's and i said are you sure this sounds like a freudian crazy shit but you know it was really cool to think about it because literally all of my like strong thoughts come it gets me started right when I get up that's the first thing I do is go in the shower so interesting stuff though I love that I love just get up and do it for god's sakes and I'm not I I lead by example like if I say I'm gonna work out every day I work out every day I I I'm not I'm very imperfect in many many many ways, but at least get up and try. I just can't stand people that can't get up.

I strike out all the time, but at least I went up to bat and that's half the battle. So I don't know if it was Tony Robbins or who said this, but basically it was like if information was all we needed, we would all be billionaires with six pack abs because, you know, all the information is out there about what it takes to be successful in, you know, fill in the blank, you know, relationships, you know, fitness, business. But it's ultimately, you know, what you do with the information, how you execute on it. And the example you gave where you have the vision and then you have the consistent and, you know, regular activity that helps drive you towards that vision, that's what's ultimately going to make that vision into a reality. So if you have the consistent activity coupled with the vision, and you're doing the right things the right way in a consistent basis, you know, you're going to get progress, you're going

to move towards that vision, even if it maybe doesn't, you know, come as fast or if it comes faster. I think that's very key, you know, important to remember is, you know, it's great to read. It's great to listen to these types of podcasts. It's great to, you know, have an idea. But ultimately, it's putting those ideas into motion and driving them towards reality that are going to be what makes a difference or not. Yeah, yeah, that's great advice. People that have done this before that are much wiser than I am and they go into teaching and they love to do this because they feel like they're giving back and it's true, they say, listen, Tommy, I'll teach everybody from A to Z exactly how to do it.

And I know people that are in the field. They'll teach their competition and they go, I'll tell them everything. He goes, I'll even teach, I'll give them the process. I'll give them the book from A to Z, the step one, how to, how to do it. And they won't do it. They won't even, they might try, but they won't follow through. They won't keep it. So it's amazing to me. So many people say, I'll give you my blueprint because I know you can't do it because it takes persistence. And there's a book called The Ultimate Sales Machine. And in the book, about 25 million times,

it says pigheaded discipline. It takes pigheaded discipline to do this stuff. And you just need to stay persistent. So I love the topic of hiring because I'd say 98% of the questions are talking about how to get right people and how to hire and how to pay correctly and where do you find the people. And I'm a big fan of really filling up the tank. And then, you know, for every hundred that call in and put in an applicant, we might interview 10 and we might get one. And I love to steal good people. I steal like crazy. I'm like a thief of the blue-collar industry because I pay more and I got better systems in place.

So I'd rather steal the top guys because the top guys, let me just tell you, they're working. And even, you know, I talked to a guy a couple weeks ago. He said, I hire B and C players, but I lead them into B and A players. And I like that philosophy as well. So tell me a little bit about you guys have to hire all these people all the time. And it's the toughest thing in this blue-collar industry. Where do you find them?

How do you get them? What's your process? Yeah, you know, it's funny. One of the mantras that we say in our company is uh you know you've heard of always be closing we say always be hiring right you treat hiring you know just like a a sales funnel you get certain number of applicants turns in a certain number of interviews turns in a certain number of viable candidates turns into a certain number of actual you know hires and you know i'm a. And, you know, I'm a big sports fan, you know, grew up loving sports, watching sports.

And so I love the sports analogies with business. And if you think about, you know, you're trying to field a championship team in whatever business that you're in, that's your sport. You've got to attract and retain the best talent, attract, train, and retain the best talent that's out there. Sometimes it's going to be, you know, casting a net and see, you know, what shows up at your door. Other times it's going to be, in your case, you know, reaching out to players from other teams that are already doing amazing and, you know, helping them, you know, make the

decision to come join yours. And if you think about, you know, like the Yankees or, you know, they've got the biggest checkbook that they can write, but even the New England Patriots that have, you know, made their living winning Super Bowls on, you know, seventh round drafted quarterbacks, you know, third or fourth round wide receivers or undrafted wide receivers. So, you know, it's really unique about assembling that ideal team. So in our company, we make it a point to always be posting job postings.

We just actually recently started using a system with CareerPlug, which is, I guess, sort of an automated applicant tracking program. Our HR recruiting manager is the one that put it together. So I don't have a lot of specific details on it. But prior to that, it was, actually, my business partner said you could employ a Fortune 500 company off of Craigslist postings alone. And, you know, I believe in, you know, Craigslist, Indeed, you know, obviously LinkedIn for sourcing good applicants, social media, and then, you know, doing a phone screen. I like group interviews if it's for frontline staff. So, you know, our franchisees will have specific days of the week, times of the day that, you know, it's just kind of like an open casting call for hiring. We also actually do use that term quite often, casting or, you know, auditioning for a role on the company because, you know, with a service business,

your guys are on stage when they're out in the community, when they're driving your trucks around, when they're going into people's houses, and you want them to have that mindset as well. So those are some of the things that we've done to try to attract a player talent. And then from a retention standpoint, it really is all about the culture. You want to create a culture of fun, create some rewards, contest, recognition. There's a reason that these video game companies are so addictive is because people are addicted to trying to get to the next level, see their scoreboard, see how they compare to the other people that are playing the game. To the extent that you can create some gamification in your business, that also can help add some stick-to-itiveness to the team members that you're hiring.

Absolutely. Gamification is one of the biggest, coolest things. What that means, guys, is it's a simple way of just having contests and games and fun things to motivate the people in your office. And I think if I had to kind of narrow it down, I'd say freaking, okay, firstly, write a really good ad and know what you're going to pay the people. And be aggressive on the pay to get the people because they're going to make you a gazillion times more than you're paying them if you're doing it right. And number two, make sure you syndicate that ad. Get it on, I believe, 100% in Craigslist, I believe, but make the ad pop. It's got to be different.

If it looks like a just Joe Schmo, I'm like, dude, I read an ad and what people give to me, they're like, I don't know why I didn't get anybody. I'm like, this ad sucks. You're paying 13 bucks an hour. It says nothing about the culture and your growth and what you're trying to do. And then you're not following up with the people. So let's go back to the basics. If you want to hire good people, get the message out there, pay for it, pay for Indeed, pay for LinkedIn, pay for Facebook ads. If you got to spend a thousand bucks,

it's going to make you a hundred thousand this year. I used to believe that you could spend 30 bucks and get a good person. Now I'm like, I don't care if it cost me five grand. I'll make that back the first week of an all-star. So wholeheartedly, I just love, I love everything that you're telling me because I could just tell the passion about what everything that you do in the business. And, you know, you guys are pretty much one of the fastest franchises in America right now. And it's amazing to me how successful your franchisees are. I mean, for junk, moving crap and then moving services. But a lot of people just say, call me out because I got a bunch of garbage. I mean, some of them are doing almost 900 grand in revenue. And what I'm curious about is how the hell are these franchises so profitable and how do you treat them this way so they can succeed? Because I don't have franchises, but I have market managers,

and I really want to learn what I could do as a business owner to make those people more successful. Yeah, I mean, a lot of it is the stuff we've been talking about so far. It's just like you want your all-star employees and you want to attract all-star employees and you want to attract all-star employees, we really want to attract the right franchise owners as well because it's not just the business model. It's not just the market. One of the analogies I use with franchising quite often is, you know, if somebody has fitness goals and they go and join

a gym, they're getting access to all the fitness equipment. They're getting access to personal trainers and workout groups and all sorts of things that they can get in shape from. But it's ultimately up to that person that joined the gym to go there every day and put in the consistent work to see the results. You know, if somebody buys a franchise or maybe in your case, somebody becomes a manager of a market, you know, they're getting access to essentially all the tools that they need to be successful in their role. They're getting access to processes and systems they can execute on to be successful. They're getting access to trainers and coaches

that can help them set goals and deliver on those goals. You know, we've created mastermind groups within our franchise, which to me is like the equivalent of a workout group, you know, where you can kind of hold each other accountable or talk about what's working, not working, to share best practices and ideas. And those sorts of things ultimately are going to produce the financial rewards that somebody's looking for when they buy a franchise or when they take over a new role or, in your case,

a market to manage. So it's about training. It's about creating mastermind groups or momentum groups is what we call them. It's about learning from a coach, following a system. And by doing those things, they see results. And just like going to the gym, if you stop going, you're going to start losing the results you generated. So if somebody starts veering from the process that we know works, their productivity is going to decline. And that's just really the reality of it.

So that's kind of the analogy that we use. If you want to be successful, you've got to kind of show up, put in the work ethic, and execute the program that we've developed over the past dozen plus years. Yeah, that's incredible. I mean, you guys, I just look at the growth from 2012 to 14 to 15 to 16. And I think one of your secrets is from what you've been telling me, at least, is the call booking rate and the fact that you're getting your guys in front of that many opportunities. And I just feel like a lot of us fall short at that. And the one thing I would say is I'm a student, man. I'm a sponge. This is therapy for me talking to a guy like you.

It literally keeps me grounded. It puts me it makes me want to just go out and do more and be better. And I think that the fact is that you're always moving forward. And it's exciting to hear of other people out there that are doing this, because to me, it's like it's like taking steroids to be on this call because it's just giving me everything I need to be better and to realize that there's there's other people that are doing it that are doing it better than I am and just having an open ear, being able to actively listen and implement this stuff. I mean, I've already got shit, a ton of notes and all kinds of great stuff.

So I'm going to go out and buy this book and then I'm going to get you back on here. But I got a few more questions. So you guys spend two percent of the franchise fee for brand development. So I think that brand development, you know, you talked a lot about it, that people wear t-shirts of, you know, Hooters, they wear Harley Davidson. It's just cool. Tell me a little bit about what else you guys do. Obviously you handle all their phone calls. You're giving them the technology they need. What else do you do for the franchisees to help them be successful? Obviously there's a lot of processes and systems,

but is there anything that you could think kind of outside the box? Yeah. So, you know, one of the things that obviously we do, you know, in addition to the things that you just mentioned, is really just continuing to evolve and fine-tune the brand. And what I mean by that is, you know, update improves the website, update improves the marketing vendors that we utilize to help make the phone ring. We've done some pretty creative out-of-the-box marketing and PR activities over the years

to try to really expose the brand to the mass market. You mentioned, I think, in the introduction that we were actually on the very first episode of Shark Tank years ago. Our trucks that were on Millionaire Matchmaker and Oprah and House Hunters and on Home and Garden Television and some other programs. And so, you know, all of those things are really just ways to try to get the brand in front of the consumer because, you know, in any industry, but the blue collar or service industry in particular, there's relatively low barriers to entry. I mean, you get a truck, you get a logo, you get a website and some business cards and you're in business, whatever, you know, service it is that you're offering. So, you know, as a company that's

working towards being a truly national brand, one of the things we've always done, even since we were a lot smaller than we are now, is try to make the brand seem and appear bigger than the business because we wanted to be top of mind so that when somebody does see our truck driving in their town, they can say, oh, that's the truck I saw on XYZ program, or they're doing a Google search and they see the name, it resonates or triggers the fact that they had seen it before. So those are the types of things that we really do

to try to add value to the franchise owners so that they see the value of being part of an organization like ours, as opposed to, you know, being an independent mover or junk hauler. But, you know, really see that this is something that could, you know, accelerate their success journey versus trying to do it all on their own. You know, you just reminded me of something and I wanted to share with the listeners because I met this guy. I don't want to bring up his name. He's a monster in the air conditioning industry. He buys up companies, and he rolls them into one, and he just mass markets. I was with him the other day, and he said, Tommy, he said, I go, how the hell does that radio that you do all the time actually pay off?

I'm like, dude, you must be every other. Every time I change the station on the radio, you do all the time actually pay off? I'm like, dude, you must be every other, every time I change the station on the radio, you're on. He's like, he's like, Tommy, our click through rate on Google meant the click through rate means if somebody sees your ad on the top, how many times did they click on it? Guys for, you know, some of this might be French to you, but it's simply doing a search for air conditioning repair or installation. And if you click on it, there's a percentage. So how many people see your ad and click on it?

And it used to be 8%. But when he started doing the radio, it rose up to 51%. That means that name familiarity, that caused 43% higher click-through rate. So some people say, well, I'm not getting results from the radio. Well, if you can make Google the click-through rate 50% of the time, I mean, it's massive. So I think a lot of times when we're thinking about marketing even, by having a national brand and doing what you guys are doing, you know, College Hunks is doing, it's huge. And I got to tell you, I've heard of you guys so many times because you're right. You made a joke one time.

You know, you got a really authentic personal brand. And you said you've appeared more on reality TV networks and programs than the Kardashians. So, you know, what is it? I love personal branding. I mean, I'm a big fan of it because, listen, even at the end of the day, College Hunks is you and your partner. That's your personal brand. You guys started it. Tell me about personal branding and how it's helped you along and what what how you see it growing as you grow. Yes. So as I mentioned, trying to get the brand out there of the business, you know, inevitably sort of we would look for any ways that we could do that. And part of that was telling our story as founders about how we got into this business and how we, you know, what are the lessons that we've learned as going through that.

And I think at the end of the day, what branding does is it helps develop and generate credibility. And what credibility does is it helps develop and generate credibility. And what credibility does is it helps generate trust. And I think in any business, in particular, a service business where you're letting a complete stranger cross the threshold of your most sacred line, which is your house, the level of trust has to be so high as letting those individuals into your home to, you know, move your stuff or, you know, haul your junk away or whatever, you know, or fix your garage doors or whatever the case may be. And so for us, it was all about, you know, building credibility, both as individual, you know, founders, as well as a brand. And, you know, because our customers at the end use our

people that are moving or having stuff all the way, but our customers are also our franchise owners. And, you know, early on, we were at all the way, but our customers are also our franchise owners. And early on, we didn't have a proven out franchise model. We were asking people to invest six figures into a business model. And we were relying really on our vision and passion to be what they believed in that it was going to work. And so, you know, developing our own professional brand and credibility, I think, went a long way to creating that trust for the early adopters of our franchise opportunity to join the system. And that obviously helped us, you know, build for the future. And now, obviously, we have, you know, more of a proven track record in the business. You know, I don't feel the need to be in the spotlight as much as

I did in the early days when we were really trying to build, you know, the brand itself along with our personal brand. But I think it certainly has helped and opens doors, opens opportunities, opens introductions. And so, you know, being a business leader that's also had some, you know, exposure in the media outlets as a speaker and as an author and those sorts of things, it's really kind of, I think, adds to the level of trust and credibility that you can ultimately create through business channels. And so that's been the motivation behind it. And then one other thing I'll mention that I think is worth reminding us all through

the journey, and this is something actually I met, I met the ESPN Sports Center anchor Scott Van Pelt. I met him at a Super Bowl event once, and I was telling him about our business. And he said, well, you know, Nick, I'll tell you the same advice I tell all the athletes when they start making it big. He said, I tell them all to stay hungry and stay humble. And I think that's really a good mantra to keep in mind as well, because you never stop learning. You're always a student, and you always improve. And that's something that you mentioned a little bit ago as well, is learning what other people are doing, not getting too big of a head where you become susceptible to competitors because you're becoming complacent. So staying

humble where you continue to attract good people, staying hungry where you continue to move the company forward. I think that's been a key mantra for us to live by as well. That is amazing. I mean, this, this is, I tell you, I just can't get enough of this. So for those of you out there, you don't have to write a book, but it's super fun even to have it as a pastime. I got a book coach because a lot of people spend 50 years writing a book and they never finished. So having a starting point and having somebody that knows the process is very, very important. And I got to tell you, I'm still working on mine. It's going to be out in January, but I'm not here to endorse my own book. I'm here just to say it's fun to write a book. I got one more question for you. And then

I close it with a couple of questions. So I've read five books off the top of my head about franchises versus non-franchising. And the things that come to mind are if you're going to franchise, you could raise a lot of money really quick. It's kind of like doing an IPO because you raise share money. And if you get the concept down, it's not as easy to do an IPO. Some of these things are completely different, but the process of getting a lot of money up front, but then it's kind of scary because you got that asshole that gets up on CNBC News

for ripping an old lady off that has nothing to do with your company. He just started and he doesn't know the processes and you lose a little bit of control, but it's really good. I mean, I see a vision and a reason for it. I see the good the bad of the

ugly and the squad analysis that i've done on it and i just decided it probably wasn't the best for my company but i want to hear someone that's lived it you're 100 franchises your guys are killing it and i want to hear the good and some of some of the not so good you know i want to hear if you could go back what would you have changed. So I think when people franchise their business, they do it for a couple reasons. One, to your point, they want to expand quickly, and they don't have the financial means or the infrastructure or human capital to be able to do that. So every time they sell a franchise, they get a small injection of capital, they also get somebody that theoretically is going to have more skin in the game and be more invested in the success of that market than if you went out and hired somebody to manage that operation. So that was kind of the notion for us. You know, we envisioned becoming a national brand. We wanted to do it quickly, although I don't know if 10 years is considered

quickly or not. But, you know, if you asked me 10 years ago, I probably would have said, you know, we thought it would have been faster. But now looking back, I'm like, well, I don't know if we could have handled it any faster. Some of the great things about it are, yes, you've got, you know, individuals that are passionate about the brand, that they want to make it successful, assuming that you're somewhat discretionary about who you let into the system. The bad and the ugly is, to some degree, you know, franchise owners at times will feel like employees who you cannot fire because, you know, even though they don't work for you, they do represent the brand in a certain market. And if they start going off the deep end, and in your example, you know, doing things,

you know, representing a brand and doing things that are negatively representing that brand. Yes, you have your franchise agreement that you can sort of evoke and try to, you know, hold them accountable towards. But it's, you know, that still is a very legal and lengthy, expensive process to have to deal with. So the key, in my opinion, is just if you are going the franchising route, not getting enamored with this notion of just sitting back and collecting royalties, because your franchise owners are going to expect a lot of support and a lot of interaction and engagement from you. So it's not like you just sell them a franchise, hand them the logo, and tell them to go make the market successful. They're expecting you to help them be successful. And if they're not, a lot of times you're the first person that they look to hold accountable or to, in some cases,

blame. So I think going into it wide-eyed and open-minded as to what it is and that it's not a short-term success, it's just a growth platform or mechanism, then it can be an effective tool. And it's finally proven to be that for us. But it's a very long uphill battle. And it's not a just sit back and collect royalty type of opportunity that a lot of people, I think, glamorize it as being. Yeah. I talked to a really good mentor for me at the time, still just a knowledge base of wisdom for me. And he said, for me, for my garage door business, he said, you're not in for me for my garage door business he said you're not going to be in the garage door business anymore if you franchise let me just tell you that and i go well what do you mean i'll still be in the garage door business i'm going to own a couple

of the locations he goes nope he goes these franchise owners are going to call you daily and they're going to tell you how they think you should run the business and they're going to want more training and it's almost like a glorified babysitting. But there's still like you said, it's about picking the right employees and the right owners and the people that will have invested interest. Because I'm a big fan of rent to own concepts, because instead of having a normal renter that's going to shit everywhere, make a mess. These renters actually feel like they're going to own it one day. So they take care of it. And it's not quite the same, but it means they own it. They got to put more time into it. So I definitely think I talked to a guy on a trip in Hawaii.

It was like 15 business owners. I was one of them. And he said I would do nothing in life but franchise. He goes, that's what I've always done. And he killed it. And he goes, you have no idea how fast and how the money that could come in. And then I've heard opposite of that. And I just, I'm not a control freak, but I definitely know that my name's on the line. And I definitely got to say, I'm a hundred thousand million percent

impressed on what you've built. And it's amazing. So last thing I like to do is we talked a lot about the questions that I led is I'd love for you to just maybe hit upon a topic that you didn't feel that I was able to cover. Maybe something that really has changed your business or your life. It doesn't even have to be about your business necessarily, but just something to leave the listeners with as well as I'm going to ask you a little bit about some book ideas that you might recommend, and then I'm going to tell them how to get more of you. Sure. So for me, we started out the business and we were young guys out of college and the business was the only thing that we even talked about. And then more recently, within the past five years, both my business partner and I found you know, found our wives and met our wives and got married. We've since had kids. And so we're kind of in this new, this new realm of adulthood that, you know, we never really anticipated or planned for when we started the business. I mean, we always expected that this would come into play, but never anticipated how that would impact sort

of the day to day balance of life. And, you know, when I look at it, there really is no such thing as true harmonious work-life balance because, you know, we're all given the same amount of time in a day. And it's really about how you choose to allocate both the time and the energy of that time. And so I don't know if I've read this somewhere, if I created this myself, but I've kind of boiled it down to a handful of words that start with the letter F. So there's family, there's financial, which is essentially your business or your professional endeavors. There's fitness, which is your health and your well-being. There's faith, if you have any sort of faith, whether it be religious, spiritual or otherwise. There's friends and then there's fun. So there's six of them. And, you

know, at any given time, you know, one is going to be neglected at the expense of the other. And if we're spending a lot of time on the business, you know, that's very financial. But, you know, you may not have a lot of time left over for the family piece or for the fun piece or the other. So the key, I think, is just, you know, being mindful of those things, recognizing those areas and kind of being consciously to make a decision as to which of those areas are you really going to, you know, I guess we'll call another F, focus your energies on. So, you know, if I'm working a 12 hour day and maybe I only have 30 minutes or an hour with my daughters at home that day, I need to make sure that it's fully focused engagement and that my phone's put away and I'm not distracted thinking about the things that happened that day at work. So that's something that I think, you know, I never really thought of early on because when we first started the business, we didn't have any obligations, no wife, no kids, no, you know, the business was fun and I was in business with my friend. So it was all sort of intermingled. And then these other forces come into play and

you start, you know having to to deal with those so uh that was something that you know that i think a lot about now and talking to other business owners that are kind of in my life stage as well they they think about that stuff a lot so i figured i'd share that with you incredible i love that you know and there's a book and i talk about it just because the guy did he was at a convention that I was at, and it's called Off Balance on Purpose by Dan Thurman. And it just says there's no such thing as a perfectly balanced life and a perfectly balanced diet. But it just kind of goes into those same things that you discussed and figuring out how to create some sort of your own balance. And it's tough, man.

I get yelled at. I have a girlfriend of two years and trust me, it's, if I'm on the phone at 930, I get the eye roll and the, and then the, you know, she'll go to bed. It's not, it's, it's bad. I mean, cause I'm obsessed with business as well, but tell me a little bit about, I'm going to talk a little bit about your book and I know you didn't come on here for any reason to get endorsed by your book or anything, but I definitely think I'm going to read it. I want to talk to you about it in a few months.

We'll get you back on. But tell me a little bit about some of the books, obviously the E-Myth. Is there any other books? And I tend to hear a lot of the same ones, you know, entrepreneurship and the ideal team player. And there's all these other books that I've read, but I'm just interested if there's any couple of books that really stood out to you and might've changed your direction and taught you a lot. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So

one of the books that we really follow and adhere to in our organization is a book called Traction. It's part of the Traction series by Geno Wickman. He wrote another book called Rocket Fuel, another book called How to Be a Great Boss. And basically what it all pertains to is what they call the entrepreneurial operating system. Very similar, I don't know if you're familiar with Vern Harnish and Gazelles or some of the other programs that talk about quarterly strategic planning and one-page plans, but the one that we subscribe to is called Traction. And that's been really impactful for us. It really kind of helps put a system and a process in place for the rhythm and the routine of running an entrepreneurial business and incorporates a lot of the things that you read in other books.

So I'd highly recommend that one. That's been a game changer for us. A short book that we read early on in our business was a book by Seth Godin called The Purple Cow. And really the premise there is if you're driving down a country road, you see a bunch of brown cows, you've seen it before, you keep driving. If there's a purple cow in that field, pull over. You're going to tell people about it. You're going to put it on social media. It's because it's remarkable. The idea there is create a remarkable brand, create a remarkable service, do something to stand out from all the other brown cows in your industry, and you'll be

able to grow and create some loyalty there. So those are some of the ones that come to mind just off the top of my head. Another one, it's kind of an oldie but goodie, is How to Stop Worrying and Start Living by Dale Carnegie. I know he's also written How to Win Friends and Influence People, which is probably a little more well known. But How to Stop Worrying and Start Living, I actually really like that one even better than the How to Win Friends and Influence People book just because, you know, as an entrepreneur, at least for me, there was a lot of angst and stress and worry involved in the early days. And, you know, it kind of helped put my mind at ease to let the noise kind of settle down a little bit, to dust settle down. Then the last one that I'll recommend, I know I'm kind of sharing a lot of books here, is a book called Exponential Organizations by a guy named Rahim Ismail. And it talks really about sort of the impact of technology on all businesses here in the next decade. It was written a couple of years ago, and it's funny to see how far technology has come,

even since it was written, but it really hits home on some of these exponential technologies and how they're going to impact organizations. I love it. So the biggest thing you guys can do is help yourselves. I don't want those guys. We get all these, and I'm the same type person as all of you. We sometimes read a book and we come out and it's the flavor of the week. And I know how that goes because I've done it. But I just don't want you to come into the office next week and say, I got a new plan.

Everybody listen, because the employees don't take you as serious. So meditate on it. Come up with a game plan. Start it yourself. Stick to it for two weeks before you even broadcast it within the company. But I love this stuff. I wrote down all those books. I'm going to pick them all up.

I'm going to pick up The Effortless Entrepreneur. That's one of the first next books I'm going to read. And is there, so what I'm going to do is I'm going to put a lot, I'm going to put this whole podcast. I'm going to put how to get the book on homeserviceexpert.com forward slash hunks. You guys can go download the book.

You could buy the book. We'll show you everything, how to get more of Nick Friedman. One thing that he mentioned that's so true is ideas are nothing without action. So remember a bunch. I got a lot of homework to do. I'd love to read the book, get you back on, talk a lot more in depth about the book. And I just wanted to say that I really appreciate it. Awesome. Awesome. Now, it's been great for me as well. I've been, even as we're talking here, some of the things that you're doing, taking notes. So phenomenal what you're doing for the home services industry. Keep it up and good luck with the 100 million mark and beyond in the near future here.

Thank you so much, Nick. I'll be in touch. And once again, I appreciate it. Have a great week. This was the Home Service Expert podcast. Now listen, for the first time ever, I'm going to give away a step-by-step guide that reveals the hiring process I've used to grow my company to over 200 employees in over 10 states. If you want to scale your business with the best employees, which I know all of us

want, then you need to go to homeserviceexpert.com forward slash giveaway. That's homeserviceexpert.com forward slash giveaway and get your free copy right now.