The Home Service Expert Podcast - How Accountability and Zero-Based Budgeting Saves a Ton of Money for Business

Episode Date: January 17, 2020

Sean McGraw is the CEO and founder of FOR Energy, a residential energy conservation, production, and automation company based in Arizona. For two years in a row, he’s been on the INC 5000 list of the fastest-growing privately held companies in the United States. A home service expert on everything from air conditioning to replacement windows, Sean does energy audits, and helps customers save on costs by making energy-smart choices. In this episode, we talked about manuals, direct marketing, networking...

This is the Home Service Expert podcast with Tommy Mello. Let's talk about bringing in some more money for your home service business. Welcome to the Home Service Expert, where each week, Tommy chats with world-class entrepreneurs and experts in various fields like marketing, sales, hiring, and leadership to find out what's really behind their success in business. Now, your host, the home service millionaire, Tommy Mello. Hey, my name is Tommy Mello. I'm here with my buddy, Sean McGraw, and we're here to talk about 4Energy. He's getting to be a large business. He's won the Inc. 5000 two years in a row, and he's just moved into this new office about two months ago?

Two months ago, yeah. Two months, and he does energy audits. He sells everything from air conditioning to solar to... Duck seals, attic seals. We do window films, replacement windows. Basically anything and everything that relates to somebody's electric bill and the cost associated with the house. So we got introduced a couple years ago, maybe a little bit more. And I was just fascinated when I walked in Sean's office because he does outbound and I've never done outbound.

He's been able to go find business. I've always let it come to me by spending a fortune on inbound marketing. So this is going to be really cool if you're wondering how to grow that side of your business, because how much of your business, at least in the last few years, depended on you going and finding it? Yeah. So it's got to be 80% of our business. We go out and we find. I love that. So we actually struggle with what you're good at, which is making the phone ring and bringing it in and paid for advertising and those kinds of things. But what we're really good at is going out and finding it, especially when we need to. So tell us a little bit about so i know your dad we're both from michigan uh actually

sean's wife and my really younger cousin probably seven years younger went to high school together it's just a small world super small world yeah and one of the things that i really think sean does the best that i want to talk a lot about too later in this conversation is networking he's introduced me and we went to Chicago together. We've gone on a lot of trips, just a master networker. But tell me a little bit about, you know, starting in the window, kind of learning about that and then going and doing your own thing with Tyler and everything. Yeah, totally. So I'm from Detroit, very close to where Tommy's from. And I grew up in a family business. So my dad owned a window replacement company in Metro Detroit.

And for those of you that know what window replacement is and that kind of industry, it's old school. And that's kind of been my upbringing. So growing up, I started in a warehouse pushing a broom and kind of helped my dad where I needed to help. And until I was 19, I was continuing to kind of learn different aspects of that business. And unfortunately, in 2007, we closed the business. I was a freshman at ASU. And a lot of people when I'm doing these type of interviews ask me like,

what was your aha moment where you wanted to go into business? And mine was more of a, oh crap, what am I going to do with my life, right? So I got to experience a lot of hard work out of my father, growing a very successful business. It was a Renewal by Anderson franchise at the time. And, you know, he got to a place back then without social media and internet, you know, he was doing 15 to 20 million a year in replacement windows in a market that was a depressed market. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, moved out here to go to Arizona

state and started the business before I finished school. So that's a little rundown of my history, you know, and I've been associated in the past with different partners and I think it's, it's very difficult to have a partner for some some reason, it is and it's not. It's kind of like a wife. And if you see eye to eye on certain things, it's easy and it's better, especially if you complement each other's kind of deficit, right? Yeah. So tell me a little bit about it because I know that you've got a great relationship with Tyler.

Totally. And I know, you know, I don't want to go into so much detail, but I know that you didn't have a great really go into so much detail, but I know that you didn't have a great relationship with possibly some other people. So let's talk about that a little bit. Yeah. So, um, I agree and disagree with what you just said. So I think if two partners agree on everything, there's not a purpose for one of the partners, right? So I, Tyler and Nate, um, bought into the company in 2015, basically January 1, and we don't agree on everything. He's kind of a wild dude, like pushing the limits constantly.

I'm a little bit more conservative, and it plays really, really well. We play off of each other's strengths, and it is an amazing relationship. In fact, the growth of our company and achieving things like Inc. 5000, it happened when Tyler came on board and really pushed me outside my comfort zone and started to move the needle. So in our relationship, it's great. Partners aren't for everybody, but we make it work really, really well. Yeah, I mean, what do you say to someone out there that's really struggling in a partnership? Do you say you fold? Do you say you buy them out? Do you say you go to your own thing? Do you say you fold? You say you buy them out? Do you say you go to your own thing? Do you say you just work through it? I guess it's

different depending, but... Situational for sure. If you've got a partner that things are really, really not working, I would make a change. I would make a change whether that's buying them out, going and doing something else. It really depends on the situation, but a bad partnership typically means your business probably won't grow. It's worth making a change. You know, it's tough to go into work when you can't stand who you're going into work to, and I'm sure you've had employees that you're like, damn it, I gotta go. A partner could be 10 times worse because they've got a say in what happens. But even a bad employee could just make it really difficult to want to go in.

Oh, yeah. Toxic people are toxic people. And if your relationship with your partner or an employee is toxic, I would personally make a change as soon as possible. Rip the Band-Aid. And so often it's difficult to rip that Band-Aid. I've been in the situation where like, what are we going to do? And every single time I could say if I would have done it sooner, there would have been very little repercussions because for some reason we act. Once that Band-Aid's peeled off, we're putting Neosporum on it and we're sewing her back up and we're fixing it and it's ten times better.

Yeah. You're making it work, right? Yeah. So that's what ripping the Band-Aid is. It's tough, but when it's ripped, it's amazing. better. Yeah. You're making it work, right? Yeah. So that's what ripping the band-aid is. It's tough, but when it's ripped, it's amazing. People always survive. And they say, I wish I would have done that sooner because I feel a relief.

Uh-huh. And I feel so much better about the business and so excited again about coming in. So what was it like when you were, you know, pre- 2015 when Tyler came on or you know to tell me a little bit about the evolution in your mind the way you look at the business now yeah so I'll do this briefly because a lot has happened in the last nine years since we since we were founded so I founded the company when I was still a student at ASU and a lot of people are like oh my gosh that's amazing well it was it was cool but if you look at our sales from 2010, 11, 12, and 13, you wouldn't think it's amazing. You know, part of me wishes I went and got some experience with somebody else that had already figured it all out, you know?

So before Tyler came on board, it was a lot of trial and error. It was a lot of learning lessons the super hard way. And so I don't trade those years for anything, but you know, a lot of those lessons, we don't, we don't learn again. We fixed them and Tyler came on board. And since then it's been constant progress, constant growth, constant improvement. That's what it's been. I love that constant improvement. It's, it's almost a big word that's been flaring up to me every day is consistency yeah it's consistent growth consistency it's a lot of people feel like they get they get in this they get in this thing where they go um they go all in and they work out eight hours a day instead of just 30 minutes every day

for a year and they get into this impact like, if I do this so hard, and it's the biggest mistake because they got to change their habits. They just got to get motivated. Totally. And habits are the hardest thing to create, right? But when you create consistent habits, you create a consistent result.

That's what you do. And that's typically growing. And this has never been a better time to grow. I mean, it's amazing. Consumer spending is up. Consumer confidence is up. Unemployment's down. Stock market's up.

I don't know if this is artificial or if just I'm good at business or if everybody's just kicking butt. But, I mean, this is great. Yeah, totally. I mean, this whole business right now, everybody I talk to is like. And, you know, I don't think it's a bubble because I don't think it's going to crash like it did in 2008, 2007, 2008. I do think there's going to be small recessions, which is inevitable, but hopefully we never hit it like we did. But hope for the best, plan for the worst type of thing, right? Absolutely.

You're right. I mean, being in business during those years, you can tell a total difference in what the consumer is doing. They're spending money on their homes. Like, I'm sure for you, and you are great at business, so that's a part of the equation, right? But people are spending money. They're investing in their houses, unlike they've done in the last 15, 20 years. And we absolutely see it when we're in somebody's home. It absolutely is a good market and making a big difference in business.

And the ROI is there. I think that's the biggest difference is people were losing their house in 2007, 8, 9, 10. Now they're making money on their house. There's that ROI. So that's a huge deal. So in the last couple of years, you know, since I've known you, I've noticed just a complete, I don't know, you're in this new building. It's more organized. You seem like you've got more of a strategic plan. What do you think's taking place? I know you've had some, you've had consulting, and I get a lot of consulting.

We get consultants from everywhere. We read a lot. But what do you think's been some of those aha key moments? Over the last two years? Yeah, two to four, whatever. Yeah, just really. What was the incubator or the inherent thing that's taken place? Or what is the other word?

There's a catalyst moment. Yeah, okay, totally. So there's been a lot. The biggest one, I think this is something that most entrepreneurs would experience sometime in their career. It's having to address the same issues over and over and over again and having to answer the same questions from employees over and over and over. And so actually part of this is some people I meet, like meeting you and hearing some of the stuff that you're up to and the consultants you've used, but it's being organized. I mean, that's, and we're not perfect at that. Like, in fact, I think we're terrible at that right now.

And that's why we're consciously trying to, you know, build operating manuals and playbooks for every position across the company. We're trying to have amazing training and a standardized onboarding process. All of these kind of things that you standardize and make uniform create a more uniform result, right? So instead of a lot of chaos on the front end, we're trying to have awesome process and procedures. So on the back end, we know that that result's gonna probably be really, really good.

So that's what we've really, really been up to. And currently today, if you ask me, what is gonna take us to the next level? It's that. That's what we've been working on. That's what we're continuing to try to perfect. And the ultimate goal is to create this machine that we can insert talent into and leads and products and those kind of things and have a really good result on the other end and have people be really successful in our organization. You're talking my language right now because I was at church this weekend. And it was a guest speaker.

And he wasn't very good. So I took a lot of notes on my own stuff in my head. And I hate to say that. But I put $100 million goal for next year. But not in a fiscal year. And then I said, how many texts do I need at $400,000 per tech? Which is kind of a median number. So i said how many texts do i need at 400 000 per tech which is kind of a median number so i said 250 texts that means adding over 130 texts so i said how much would we need month

by month and i figured out that number and i said what do we need to do i came up with 26 items to really streamline that but i said what happens if a truck doesn't show up from enterprise on time what happens if the tools come don't come from amazon on time what happens if the tools come don't come from amazon on time what happens if ipads are low so contingency plans step one step two step three if this doesn't happen so where possibly could the bottlenecks be so who picks them up from the airport where are they staying how are we organizing all these things who are they going to get fed by what are they doing that night who's going to be their trainers where's their manuals for this stuff what's the standard operating procedures where's the checklist and so we're creating to work backwards from our goals and actually design those and say

what's every single thing so what you start with instead of starting with 30 40 50 texts coming in in a month start with three and say okay what happened here the next time you fixed it start they'll go to five yeah Then you go to seven. Then you go to 10. Then you get to 20. And as you're repairing these things and fixing them and building contingency plans, one of the stats I learned is we had this company come film us to be on TV. It's a TV show.

It's called The American Dream. And they said that KFC opens a new store every eight hours. So I started thinking my business like that. I'm not going to be every eight hours, but what would it look like? Where are the holes? What are the problems? Is it SEO? Well, then when do we need to start the SEO for a given city?

Do we need to get the location three months in advance? How do we really make a name for a new city? How do we acquire businesses? There's all these things, but it's simply taking the time and working backwards gets you to the answer, doesn't it? Absolutely. Yeah, totally. First of all, you are like 10 levels deeper into this process and procedure stuff than

I am. Like that stuff, I can only dream of being able to address those problems. We are in the basic stages of really, really building the playbooks, building the procedure, and creating those living documents that instead of having all this chaos and building them from scratch, we can simply go in if something's not working and tweak it and still have that document be rocking and rolling. I think the key to that is to make your, everything you do, make it modular.

Meaning that if you go on a user interface of your crm make sure that you can swap that out in case they change it without having oh great we got to redo the entire manual where do we start so that's the beginning of it and i think that actually dedicating time to the most boring for me and you it's the most minuscule boring tasks of all time it's monotonous and i hate it but at the same time i'm like man i got that same question or we've gotten a few car accidents which i hate but there's a procedure you got to go to drug test right after that you got to go to the nearest um there's all these drug test facilities in every single state and then you got to get the driver's license of the other but there's all

these things but we have forms within service time which is our crm yeah and as you start to make more mistakes and get bigger the answers kind of come in you just need to document them and make sure people understand them absolutely there's so much truth to that yeah it's this is this is where sean hit the nail on the head of he wants an expected result he wants to be able to get get this thing done when he's not home and he's busy being daddy. And if he's going to get that, he needs to make sure everybody kind of knows the rules of the game because how are they supposed to play or win the game if they don't know the rules? Absolutely. That's what you're doing. You're prepping your people to succeed, right? If it happens 80%, maybe even 90% of the time,

I want it in an operating manual. If it's a one-off, okay. If it's only 10% one-off, we can address that on the fly. But if it's only 10% one-off, we can address that on the fly. But if it's happening 90% of the time, let's standardize it. Let's have that playbook for our people to go win. I love that. Yeah. And people come into a new job and they go, you hand them a manual and they're like, what the hell is a manual? But you go, look, if we were about to play a new game, whether it's Candyland, Monopoly, or Uno, you would at least want to know how to know when you play and you know how you win and you know when you lost the game and you know when you're being observed

and when the bank gives you a free go, you can collect $200. Whatever that looks like, they're directions. And so many times, can you imagine? I guess if we were going to play this game all day every day, when you ask me the same question over and over I'd be like dude you need to look it up right there in the directions so you give people back their manuals

their SOPs whatever you want to call that so I tend to really set big goals but the way I've learned to set my goals is not to pick an arbitrary number I pick where I want to be which I think is doable and work backwards tell me about one year three year and five years for, for energy. Yeah. So assuming we can conquer these

playbooks and marketing plans, uh, in the course of time that we want to, um, we did about 7 million sales last year. We will be, we will be well over 10 this year. We're hoping to be at 15 next year. But in five years, our big goal, and we haven't set a number to this, but we'd like to be a household name in home energy. There's very few companies that, there's a lot of solar companies and a lot of insulation companies and a lot of HVAC companies. But there's very few companies that are able to handle all of those different products and solutions and offer them to one homeowner. So when we look at our business, that's who we want to be. We want to pioneer the home performance industry to encompass all of these different things and be able to really take a holistic approach to how we conquer people's high bills and uncomfortable spots in their home and indoor air quality and all of those kinds of things. And that's what we're trying to achieve. And when we can achieve that, man, it's going to be something special because we look around

the country and we don't see anybody that's been able to do it. And it's tough. That many products is tough to standardize, right? But we're figuring it out. That's what we're doing. Well, it's progress, not perfection. Continue and you'll never be perfect. The $200 to $300 or $400 million companies, I've been to these companies. They still have problems. Totally. As have I.

And it's actually relieving to go to those companies and know that even at our stage with all the problems, everybody's got problems. No company out there is perfect. And that was actually a good lesson for me to learn because I always thought these problems are exclusive to us. No. Every entrepreneur, every company has their own set of issues. And a lot are the same issues that you and I experience that are given levels of business.

Yeah. And it is true. There are bigger problems when you get bigger, but there's less of them. They're more like crucial key decision problems like, okay, should we open or close this market? You know, bigger things like that. Bigger problems. So you said something that really just popped out of me and it's household name. And I'm torn because part of me says as I expand to become a household name means a lot of – there's online and there's offline.

Offline to me is TV, radio, or billboards. That's the branding. And then the wrap vehicles. Online is your social media. It's your programmatic TV like Netflix type stuff, which is nice because you can spend a fortune building that household name or you could just be the best at direct marketing and really getting that phone to ring when they're looking for your services and slowly let that household name manifest. What is your theory on that?

Yeah. So I, I like your strategy, right? Like it, it, companies go broke oftentimes, not most of the time, but a lot of the time when they're investing everything in radio, TV, all of the really, really expensive media outlets. Like we don't take that approach. We don't do radio. We don't do TV. We canvas, we call, we go out and seek business. Right. But you look at companies like, like Tesla, probably a bad, bad example, okay? But Tesla, they don't do radio. They don't do TV. They brand properly and they are the household name for electric vehicles, right? So that's an extremely large company with a lot of financial backing, but it can be done,

especially on the individual market basis, right? If we're looking at Phoenix, whether you want to say so or not, A1 is as close to a household name as you'll get. So kudos to you. We'll see. So, you know, you kind of started talking a little bit about that you go get the business outbound. Now you've used how many dialers? And talk to me a little bit about how a predictive dialer works and how you set up your call center. Cause that's just one piece of it. Totally. So as far as our call team goes, like we're, we're an energy company. So we work with local utility programs. We work with a lot of other local programs. So it's easy for us to pick up the phone and call a stranger. They've never heard of us. They've never seen us and talk to them about enrolling them in these local programs. So we use a predictive dialer. And what that is, is,

you know, we zero in on our demographic and the data that we're trying to target. We purchase that data and we turn it over to our call team. And what this predictive dialer does is when we've got every seat in that call center filled, it's automatically dialing new numbers for us. And it basically rings to one of our call center reps when somebody's on the other line. And these guys just continually introduce people to the programs and the services that we offer. And it's gotten to the point where, you know, if we have open slots for tomorrow, our call center is going to fill them with homeowners who did not know who we were at the morning we called. That's crazy. It just seems like, you know, it's a lot of work to make that happen.

But I know what a lot of people think is exactly what I think is, man, I would never take that phone call. And so how often have i heard the phone ring and i'm like i'm not not interested but i've heard the same people say valpac doesn't work i've had the same people say oh google i tried paying it's too expensive so one man's treasure is one man's garbage another man's treasure they say and tell me how many no's does it take to get a yes for some of your top performers let's say the top 10%. And you've been doing this for a long time. So what does a top producer's close rate look like with something like that? So it varies rep to rep, but 9 out of 10 are going to say no.

90% of people are going to hang up the phone or say something mean or whatever. Get a job. Get a real job. Yeah, that's how it goes. But you kind of mentioned something that makes the most sense. And I know your business is this way too. You can't have one marketing outlet. You've got to have several channels that kind of work unison. So what I've seen and the reason why we have a call floor and why we have guys out there canvassing and knocking on doors and we work home shows and events,

a lot of people have given up on traditional old school marketing outlets. And I can 100% tell you with confidence, those marketing outlets are not dead. What a lot of people will say no to, maybe they'll never answer their door and sign up with somebody on their doorstep. Or maybe somebody would never sign up with somebody on the phone. But there's plenty of people who will. And it's amazing because a lot of the people that will respond to those forms of marketing, they won't find you through SEO or PPC or be on Instagram. It's just a different clientele that just responds differently to marketing.

So you said another source that I know you've been really starting to up your game is the canvassing door knocking teams. Yep. I know they use a lot of Latter-day Saints. Here's what I know. Is cable, alarms, windows, and solar probably are the big four. Is there any other ones that are missing? Pest control.

Pest control, yeah. Home remodeling in general. There's even financial service companies that knock on doors. And the reason these companies do it is because it's extremely, extremely successful. So when you're canvassing or knocking on somebody's door, you're running into this person that, you know, like we do solar, we do a exterior product, you do garage doors, right? Something that's seen from the curb, as we would say. And you're reaching these people that have seen solar, that might have an opinion about solar, might even be interested in solar, but nobody's given

them that extra little push to learn more about it. So you're running into, in my mind, a person at the best place to meet them, their own front door, right? The other perk of canvassing and direct marketing like that is you've got their undivided attention. Most people are going to hear you out. They're going to talk to you. They're not going to scroll past you on Instagram or bypass your ad on Google. You're standing face-to-face conversing with this person. And that's where people that are talented in the direct-to-home industry really, really thrive. I mean, there's several hundreds, if not thousands, of multi-millionaires that sell things door-to-door. Yeah.

Yeah. I've heard of people making $200,000, $300,000 in a summer. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. It's not uncommon, and that's crazy to me. But one thing I've noticed is it's a real tight, tight... First, you get out of your hometown. You're sent out somewhere typically.

And then the next thing, what I found is they put them through this morning meeting of success and failure of, you've got turned down how to get over objections, how to really pull them in. I'll go, Hey, the government's going to pay for this. You know,

those keywords, those things to stay away from. And I've seen it done. It's, it's some people consider that difficult, but some people consider a website difficult. Yeah, absolutely. It's just in the eye of the beholder, really.

Totally. Now, it is extremely difficult to build a really strong, direct team, right? It's a hard job. It's easy. Anybody can go do this, but it's hard. It's hard to have that self-discipline to get out there and continually meet homeowners.

And my business partner, Tyler Ney, he's a master at this stuff. So, like, another value that he brought, which I don't have all that direct-to-home experience. He does. And he would dispute this. But he is the most talented person in that industry that I know. So bringing that value here has really, really thrown passion towards people that might not otherwise be good at canvassing or knocking on a door. And I think the biggest strength

is to find somebody that actually mastered. I'm working on the event coordinator and I'm trying to figure out things that hasn't been done in my industry because I know they work. But I know one thing. I don't want to reinvent the wheel. I don't want to just take a stab at it and end up doing 100 events in a month or two months or whatever

and say, man, I picked all the wrong events. It was the wrong demographic, the wrong avatar, not advertising the right thing, didn't hire the people right, didn't compensate them in the right program, all these things that have already been done. Yeah. So it's rarely the wrong event. If there's homeowners there. Yeah.

Homeowners, I mean, how many homes in Arizona have a garage? Well, no. Yeah. So it's rarely the wrong event. If there's homeowners there. Yeah. Homeowners. I mean, how many homes in Arizona have a garage? Well, no, I, yeah, mine's easy unless we're going to like a bubblicious skating rink. Well, if you're running into a lot of renters or people that don't own a home, then it could, it could be that event and the demographic there. Um, but if you're going to a solid event with enough people that own homes, it's typically going to be the person, the training. It's typically not the event itself. Okay, so Sean, I had some big issues with my data when it comes to financial reporting, whether that's QuickBooks or your CRM. I feel like I'm really good at handling problems when I know they exist, but sometimes ignorance is bliss for me.

And now that I've actually had a really, really good person in charge of my finances and being able to trigger and hit, I mean, I see my financials, a mountain's a big issue, a hill's a small issue, or vice versa if it's going like an iceberg. I'm able to fix these things as long as I get the right data and I get it on time. And I'll tell you what, I'm cruising right now at the best rate I've ever had. And I know you use a consultant for this, but I've had it torn so bad that it was so much to recover from a year and a half ago. Tell me a little bit about your perception on financials and how you use these indicators to run your business.

Yeah, good question because finance is not my background. And I don't think you went to school for finance either, right? No. Let the entrepreneur bring somebody in, whether it be somebody that you take on internally and hire or a consultant like I use, and have them do their thing. Because I cannot be trusted with the finances, right? I don't know as much as a finance professional does. I know enough to keep my business aflo our, to be our CFO or to have that overview of the finances. But having a consultant does a couple things for me. I get reporting delivered every Wednesday, every time I meet with my consultant.

I get accuracy, like he's always cleaning up the books and making sure that if, you know, we needed to secure a line of credit or get an equipment loan, he's got our books dialed in to where that week we could just hand them over. And I know most businesses don't have a clean set of books, at least at my stage. Whether they think they do or don't, typically they don't. So that's all been awesome by using a third-party consultant. We use B2B CFOs and we absolutely love our CFO. But the other thing that they do is, you know, when I'm getting a little too outside the lines and getting a little crazy, they get to slap me in the face and say, Sean, stop spending all your money. Like we're going to set this aside. We're going to be smart with it. We'll use it for

scalability or whatever, but don't just go chase all these shiny objects that you think will work. Be smart with your money. And that's been huge for us. Yeah. It's nice to get you back on the solid road and narrow focus. I think for me, I was always off. I'll have more revenue coming in than you've ever imagined sales and marketing baby and then i realized oh my gosh this last six months has been i've been oh man i've done internal audits and i mean i i'm like when's the last time we've used mailchimp well now we're using service time six months i'm looking at all these things and they're bill after bill after bill after bill cut cut cut cut cut and you can't cut your way to profit right you cut out the bullshit you could you get rid of the uh the extra layer of skin that's just eating away

at the business and i had a lot of things i i gotta tell you i couldn't believe certain markets weren't producing cut them i mean last year last month last month i'm pretty excited because last month alone we paid off half a million dollars worth of bills that I wanted to get rid of. Just last month. Amazing. And that's just from cutting. And like I said, I hate to say cut your weight, but I'm so good at bringing revenue. We also had our best revenue month last year, or last month.

So what are your thoughts on that? Because I feel like most people are missing the revenue. Yeah. And I've been really good at that. But a lot of people, they just let all these extra things and they – we had closed buildings in Dallas. And we were still paying for all these utilities and everything. It's like who's – we need to keep an eye on that stuff. So, yeah, and I think most business owners kind of fall into this trap, myself included.

At the end of the day, it's easier to spend money than it is to make money for, I think that's probably just a fact, right? So you've dialed in the revenue portion and you're not going to cut your way to profits, but you are at the same time. Like every year, actually we're doing it once a quarter now, we're going through all of our subscriptions. All of the things that we may have said, yeah, let's sign on on a monthly basis for this service and then we never end up using it. Or we use it and it falls off. Like that happens to us all of the things that we may have said, yeah, let's sign on on a monthly basis for this service, and then we never end up using it. Or we use it and it falls off. That happens to us all the time.

My CFO taught me this, but it's zero-based budgeting. When you look through all of the things you're spending money on, you better be able to justify it, and it better be working for you. And if it's not, cut it. Just immediately cut it. You'd be amazed at the amount of extra money that if you continue to kind of run lean as far as your finances go, the amount of money you'll have in the bank at the end of X, right? There's a book called Profit First and he talks about the Parkinson's Law. If it's in

the bank, we tend to spend it. It's kind of how some of our employees use their paychecks. Some of my guys make $4,000 a week. They have to borrow money for a $200 tool. That's because they go to the best steakhouse when they got the money in the bank versus if they don't, they tend to spend more conservatively

and go out and buy a nice steak, which you could do for $30, buy a couple nice steaks and a good meal. Absolutely. It it's amazing when people have something they tend to use it everything it's just like a space in a warehouse everything totally it's from the business owner all the way down to the sales rep that makes a bunch of money but spends every penny he has right it doesn't need to be that way but that's where you create those accountability like for for our people every now and then we'll bring in somebody that's great

at saving and finance a professional in that industry and have them come educate our people because it's amazing what setting a little chunk aside will do in the long term for everybody business owner to you know employee it is it is and they say this is in a book, this is not my phrase, but they say revenue is for vanity and profit is for sanity. And as you start really looking at that bottom line of profit, what you start doing is understanding the reason that margin, whether it be 6%, 10%, 15%, 20%, that percentage is lower because of not making certain cuts. So if you're cutting things like I'm not taking my employees out to eat anymore, that's probably the wrong thing to cut because the morale goes a long way. Totally. But by cutting, and I'm not going to cut my AC bill,

the only way I'll cut it is, hey, it automatically turns off at night, something like that. But I'm not going to keep us a little bit warmer in the summer, uncomfortable. So there's things. It just goes back, and I think it's so powerful. I want to jump to this next step, which I think probably is the number one question I get through the podcast, questions people hit me up on Facebook, is really the secret to hiring. Yeah.

And I don't think anybody's for sure. There are people that got it figured out but usually these companies are smaller uh obviously walmart there's some huge companies too but what have you learned in the last few years about hiring and you look you've you've actually told me that you've had some good guys but they couldn't pass a background or drug or whatever it is yeah and it's hard it's a hard it's hard when the unemployment rate's so low. It's super hard. Like a good economy is great for homeowners spending money and investing in

their homes, but it's equally as difficult on bringing in talent. Right. So they say most of the married people are, are well, most of the good people are married, right? They're in another job or they're working for another company.

So I always, the case, it's not always the case. It's not always the case, but I've learned so much on the hiring and recruiting and all that kind of process over the last two years. I don't even know where to begin. I will start with this. We are not professional recruiters. So we outsource that. And that has grown our business leaps and bounds. There's certain things that we always want to control and keep in-house, but then there's certain things that we're not a recruiting company.

And we'll admit it. And we're not to the point, again, where we can hire an outside recruiter to exclusively work for us. So that's been huge. A couple other things that have been, you know, big for us at 4 Energy is we need to hire just in case and not hire just in time. And what I mean by that is if we're hiring just in case, that is constantly recruiting. That's having a new resume in your inbox every single

day. Recruiting just in time is when a key person at your organization is like see ya they don't give their two weeks notice they're just out of here right for whatever reason and that puts organizations in a stressful situation now somebody else and usually multiple people around the office have to pitch in and do that person's job and they're not going to do it as well as the individual did so we are getting to the habit of constantly posting, especially our volume positions like technician, energy auditor, sales rep, call the marketer. We want new fresh resumes in our inbox every single day, whether we're hiring or not, because we know the pain that we're going to feel when somebody just leaves in a crucial position. Now, the second thing,

and we haven't even taken this on yet, but we're gonna start using predictive indexing. So this is similar to DISC, similar to a personal profile, and what this is gonna do is it's going to allow us to build that rock star profile centered around who we're looking for for a position, and then when we take on all these candidates, we can make sure that they actually fit the personality and profile that will succeed in that position. So that we're expecting to be huge for us. So tell me a little bit more because you got me curious.

I know, so a disc assessment, there's Myers-Briggs, there's, I've used probably a dozen of them in my psychology college years. Yep. And it turns out I'm born to be very successful no I'm just kidding um I would not be surprised okay I could tell you there's a lot of defaults in there that's like uh some of the things you want to hear and you're like well I'll take this from that personality yeah but uh my question is predictive indexing tell me exactly I understand so it's building

your avatar of what they look like yeah is that what it's doing so certain qualities will make a better accountant or a better salesman or door-to-door whatever yeah is that what it is totally but it's it's it's really interesting to know like you take like I took this test and it was two pages like disc took me through all these all these they asked the same question 10 times in a different wording. Sure. That was confusing. I didn't like that.

Okay. It felt like standardized testing in school. Predictive indexing was two pages. I think the first one was, how do you feel others perceive you? And I could be a little wrong on this. And the second one is, how do you perceive yourself? And it's just checkboxes of different qualities, right? Well, you select all these checkboxes, hit the next page, select all these check boxes,

and then it spits out a profile. And when I read my own profile, I was like, dang, how does predictive indexing know me better than me? But the cool thing is like people are who they are, right? Like you can constantly try to force change in people, but there are certain qualities that they're never going to shed. And at least understanding these people and their strengths or weaknesses, how to manage. Okay. So my question for you to follow up on that is, so it's simply a personality test in substitute of one of these other ones. Correct. Yeah, it's totally, and they're all great. They're all, I really enjoy the results of my disc. I just wasn't a fan of the process to get those results. PI for us, super easy, super quick.

What does it go for? As far as cost? Yeah. There's a yearly subscription, and then I believe you're paying per profile, but it's minimal. It's like a background check, something that you're going to already spend. It's like a couple grand for the license and 20 bucks a pop or something. Let's say, yeah. Okay.

I don't remember off the top of my head. But, you know, we're not in a market where everybody's heard hire slow, fire fast. At my given stage in business, I can't afford to do that. Like when we try to hire slow and take people in for multiple steps, multiple interviews, you know, we call them back for the second visit and it's like, hey, I took a job. Everybody's hiring. So the kind of thing that you can inject to assist with hiring quickly is these type of profiling. Yeah, I think that I made a list of kind of what I expect because my goal as a marketer is to come up with 50 great applicants per day. Somebody might say, how the hell is that possible?

Well, it's not going to happen from inbound hitting ZipRecruiter, Craigslist, Indeed, and I could go on and on, CareerBuilder. It's going to happen from going to honey holes and understanding where they are, whether that's Facebook groups, whether that's high school coaches, whether that's recruiters for high school sports, whether that's youth ministries, whether that's your customer base you're already hitting, whether that's, there's so many places. And what I want to see is I want people in my office arguing on who they think is going to be the best. I want 10 of them being like, no, no, no, but this, I don't want them going, we don't have anybody.

The last guy had knuckle tattoos, which isn't a bad thing, but our customers don't seem to appreciate that. Totally. So that's the goal. And I think there's a lot of insight there. And I'm absolutely a big fan of understanding their social, I go on their social media, I check their Facebook to see if they're positive or negative. I ask them to tell me a joke.

And the biggest thing for me is do they smile when I want to invite them to a barbecue? Yeah, that's very telling. Ask them to tell me a joke. And the biggest thing for me is do they smile when I want to invite them to a barbecue? Yeah. That's very telling. But for us, after going through the interview, the PI, at the end of the day, does that person fit your culture? Right. Oh, yeah. One of our values is positivity. And that's super important because somebody that's negative all the time, like you mentioned, looking them up on social media, if they're just throwing out posts like F this, F that,

one star review on Yelp, just super negative, you better bet that that's going to translate into your organization and negatively impact people around them. So that's ultra, ultra important to make sure that somebody really aligns with your company values. And you better make sure that your company values are your actual values and you're living them as a company and they're not just posted on a wall somewhere. So that's a big part of recruiting

and bringing in the right people. I just was thinking I need to be a little less political online. But yeah, yeah. So let's talk. I got about four more questions and then we'll wrap it up. I think one of the biggest things in my business was really understanding a chain of command which is an org chart but also there's nobody that shares in the results of that position it's not like well you could do a little bit giuseppe could do a little bit we'll have gianni and adam part of it and all of you guys kind of take care of it on your day.

There's 100% somebody that gets the praise or the carrot, or the stick in this case, for every position. You've got the responsibility. You have all the accountability on you. And I think by giving 100% of accountability and saying, the buck stops at you and if we win, you're going to get congratulated and you will make more money than you ever have

and more importantly, we'll go out to lunch, we'll talk about your success, everything will be great, but if you lose you understand I will not take the credit for when you win but I won't take the credit for when you lose either. So tell me a little bit about how important that is and kind of, because I think as a small business we tend to say, we'll all do a little bit, how important that is and kind of because I think it's a small business we tend to say we'll all do a little bit we'll

piece it together and this person could be this this this and this and that's a horrible mistake horrible mistake so yeah and I I've got a preface this with I'm very conscious of this we're not the best at it our organization is still at the stage where again if some a key player leaves a lot of people start chipping in to do that job, right? Someone has to. I understand that.

Right. But very few people can be the master and win at a lot of different things, right? So having somebody have a job, know what it is that makes them win and what it makes them to lose is extremely important. And the second you start giving that particular person multiple responsibilities you're gonna see mediocrity even in the things that they should or are great at you give them too much and they can't focus they can't master the one thing and be the

best at that personally I just see people be met at a lot of different things so getting to that stage in business where we can have somebody own every little aspect in every position within our company that's extremely important and I every day see the successes and failures and ultimately they're my failures right because I might task our person who runs our shows and events to do something else that they're not super good at. What does that do? That makes them okay at something and it takes away from their ability to rock at home shows and events.

I'm guilty of it. A lot of my management has been guilty of just they over-task somebody with too many things. They over-delegate and then all of a sudden they're like, what? You left me. There was no place for me to go but fail yeah and now it's like look here's your responsibilities are you up for this and you ever hear you can't teach an old dog new tricks that expression well they came in they signed up for your business today now that was three years ago now all of a sudden there's new

expectations now all of a sudden you have a new dress code now this this this sometimes they look at that and they go well this is not what i signed up for that's why i love expectations and i love we use a thing called paylocity and you update the handbook and they've got to sign it every month or even every week if you could be that good because here's the thing if you know transitionally oh they added this they added this they added this it's consistency it's adding a little bit it's a little i I got to take this. But now all of a sudden, you just switched everything. And that's where I think the biggest mistake of entrepreneurs fail is when they go, oh, I got a consultant.

Things are going to change. Everything's brand new. You're going to change this. You're going to change this. I personally like the old dogs. Sometimes they can't roll because some of the people that will take you here are the people that will take you here. What got us here won't get us there. I mean, that's true in a lot of cases.

In other cases, you know, those people can continue to grow. They can grow, yeah. But yeah, you know, you're right. Most people don't like change. No. And they don't like a lot of change coming at them all at once. Like a lot of people, that's upsetting to them. Like even the fact that, you know, you were at our old office, you visited, it was like shorter ceilings,

little compartments, crazy colors, things were dirty. We had a Pac-Man machine. But it was, it was gross in my opinion. And even though we were moving into this nice new office, that's, you know, two and a half times the size of our old one, it was upsetting to some of our people. And that was kind of amazing to see. And it was because we were throwing a lot of change at them over the course of a short amount of time. So I love your idea of consistency, little chunks, not this big, hey, we just did an overhaul of our handbook. Go ahead and sign it. That's not what I signed up for.

That's a lot to chew. But if you're taking small little nibbles and it's like, oh, well, we've got to wear closed toe shoes in the warehouse. That's easy. I'll go get a pair of shoes, right? And then you feed these little changes over a longer period of time. That's an amazing strategy. And I think you'll have a lot more people buy into that than, hey, everything's new.

It is. Well, it's kind of like working out. If you say, look, I'm going to have the best body ever, or if you say, you know what? I'm going to focus on five pounds this month. I'm going to focus on really getting my abs under control just a little bit. It's consistency. I think that's what I found. So networking is a huge deal I think networking is one

of the things I love about networking is even in a depressed economy you make friends you treat people right you're gonna be able to make it through anything when I replaced your garage door I think I had about 25 people hit me up of your friends you've got me more business I think we're going to one of your guys's garage tomorrow i mean so much business from you what is the secret and thank you by the way yeah you're welcome of course you know you're my guy um and you're always looking for that opportunity i think you've became you know there's joe polish he just puts people together he gets them in a room

he's not really a jack of all trades but he knows everybody how they could help and you've become to do that and when i read the book how to win friends and influence people for the 20th time i thought about you it's just you ask a lot of questions you're like hey i know a guy i know a guy you're always kind of what's the secret to doing that and how have you kind of just was it the way you were raised did you watch your dad do it what was what was that incubator moment or whatever that might have been to help you become that? Because it's a huge deal in business. Yeah, so this is something that I personally have just kind of found myself being good at. It's not something that I've constantly focused on.

I think it's one of my more natural skills, and it probably is because of my upbringing, because of my mom and dad and how social they are and how easily they can, you know, talk to people like growing up, my dad would make a corny joke to every waitress we've ever had. And I was always like, you know, shut up, dad. But it got me to that point where it's like, yeah, now I get to be that guy. But it's got me to a point where, you know, how to win friends and influence people was super impactful to me. And I think before I read that book, I was already doing a lot of the, you know, little principles that you learn from that book, but they're true. You do things like, like, I'll say this before I

get into that book. I genuinely like knowing people. So I think that that's an improved, a crucial component to networking, right? Like if you're the guy that just goes to a little mixer and you're like, Hey, you know, come, let's have coffee next week, Tommy. I'm sure you told me you live in a house. I want to tell you all about solar. That's not going to, that's not going to work. That's not the right approach to earning business or earning a friend or a professional colleague. It's just not. But if you're out there genuinely meeting people and getting to know them and asking questions first and talking later, you're going

to get people starting to ask about you. And the one thing I'm never shy about, like I'm in several organizations in town, is I'll say, hey, my name's Sean. I own a company called 4Energy. We do X, Y, and Z. And I stop. That's it. I dive into something more personal about myself. But over time, I really developed the relationships with guys in these groups or girls in these groups. And guess what happens when somebody, you know, a buddy of mine owns a roofing company. And if he ever finds somebody that needs solar, it's, hey, I know a guy. It's Sean.

He knows solar. So between genuinely getting to know people and wanting to know people, and not just for my own personal benefit, but to gain a friend or somebody I can work with in the future or somebody I can connect to somebody else that's awesome, that stuff goes and it's transparent to other people when you're genuine. So the third part about that is I do love connecting people. Like if I have a friend that, like I have that buddy, he's a veteran.

He hit me up last week and he's like, hey. I need a spring. Hey, I need springs. And I know you know Tommy from A1 Garage Doors. Can you hit him up? So I shoot you a text earlier today and you guys are going out there tomorrow. Like that's how it works. I'm not in this to try to sell every one of my friends and family and every one of their connections the services that I offer.

But if I can connect and give more in value than I'm taking in payment, it's going to come back to me. Tenfold. Yeah, absolutely. It's made, yeah. It's also principles in the book The Go-Giver. That's a core book to who we are amazing book amazing book but if you live by those your networking will just come to you you don't have to be a great speaker you don't have to be everybody's a little uncomfortable in a situation where you're

meeting new people but if you show genuine interest it comes back it just does that's it's that's probably the most important thing out of this interview is just does that's it's that's probably the most important thing out of this interview is just understanding that being open and when you're networking someone was asking me like how quick do you get into the cell i'm like i don't the first time i do a needs analysis and i just say hey how can i help you and the people who have sold me and done a great job of it never come in wanting anything from me they say how can i help yeah what are you working on is this even the time of your life or your business for us to offer our services? Because the best thing one guy did is said, dude, he comes in, Brian with the radio ads,

and he said, dude, I'm going to put your account on hold. He goes, you're not answering the calls. Because I listen to every single one of your calls. You're just not answering it quick enough. Listen to this CSR. I'd work with her a little bit more. This guy's a stallion. I'd make him the trainer. You you know those are the kind of things and when he gave me that insight I was

like oh my god this guy he could have had a longer relationship maybe three more months and then I would have said get get get out of here you're done but he made it work to what we're still using him for things and I think that's honesty is probably the most and to be compassionate and and actually he's just really good at eye contact and just telling me, look, this is what I would do. Yeah. And that means a lot. That goes a long way with people. Totally.

That builds trust, and that strengthened your relationship most likely. Oh, it did. Yeah. All right, this is the last topic I want to talk about. So you introduced us to a guy. Was it Chris over at ER2? Yeah. Chris at ER2.

I always want to say matt so chris is just he's the epitome of lean and the way er2 is this facility that refurbishes computer parts and accessories they sell some of them on ebay they've got all kinds of place they sell them on good egg craigslist different offer up and a lot of it they'll take all of intel stuff they'll crush the hard drives they'll give them of it, they'll take all of Intel's stuff. They'll crush the hard drives. They'll give them all new equipment. They'll take the old stuff, refurbish it, sell it. They do an amazing job. It's the most neatly well-kept.

I mean, it's a model of what lean is. And we've heard of the book, Two Second Lean by Paul Akers. And I had him on my podcast. But Sean introduced me to them. And I've been there three times now for a walkthrough. Yep. Tell me what, you know, we're not the perfect, look, it took him years to get to where he's at, but we've made a lot of progress.

Tell me what that's done to your business, and what is lean, first of all? Efficiencies. It is. Lean is efficiency, right? Like if there's a better, faster, cheaper, easier way to produce the same result, why would we not do that? So when – and I believe my first time touring ER2 was also with you. Yeah, we were together. It's jaw-dropping, like jaw on the floor.

That's how dialed in this guy's company is. And the whole concept behind lean is what I just said you you you implant this this culture into your company that that gets your employees really buying into the fact if there's a better way to do my job I have the opportunity to put my thumbprint on that and change it across the company right so like you go to er2 and you get this this awesome tour of like everybody doing their job and and Chris the CEO could point to any one of his people at any time and say hey you go to ER2 and you get this awesome tour of like everybody doing their job. And Chris, the CEO could point to any one of his people at any time and say, Hey, what's your lean improvement?

And like right there in front of 20, 30 people that are getting this tour, they're like excited to say, Hey, well, instead of doing this, I made it to do this. And I trimmed five seconds off of our production time per item. Well, to a lot of people, five seconds is nothing, right? But if you add up five seconds over the course of a workday, it turns into minutes, right? Then you do that over the course of a week and then over the course of a month and then over the course of a year. And the result is amazing. And they are focused on trimming seconds off of every little piece within their organization. And it's fascinating. Well, with that exact analogy of they've got their upstairs and they've got a slide to go

downstairs. And he put a slide in just for the more of the definition of what lean is. Now, if I think about it, let's say we have, I't know 100 people using that let's say it saves a minute one minute 100 people a day by going down the slide and having a little bit of fun and putting a smile on your face that's an hour and 40 minutes of productivity yeah there's 100 minutes right so you just added an hour and 40 minutes a day yep now that's one that's just putting a slide in yeah now you start to add up the five seconds, the ten seconds, the one minute. All of a sudden, you're recovering three hours, then five hours, then ten hours to the point where they get things so dialed in that they've saved 20 jobs. Literally 20 people's jobs.

20 people have 40 hours a week because of the 800 hours. Boom, they've saved that. And that's where their profit comes in. That's a great way to control everything from payroll to the quality controls, like Six Sigma. Because lean, we think about lean manufacturing, which is equivalent to kind of Six Sigma manufacturing. It's like within the certain standard deviation of being perfect. And I was just fascinated. I definitely recommend the two-second lean as an introduction.

And then the videos that go with that. Oh, yeah. Oh, man. I mean, they don't have a cleaning crew introduction and then the videos that go with that. Oh, yeah. Oh, man. I mean, they don't have a cleaning crew. Everybody's in charge of the cleaning there. I mean, everything. You guys got to check it out. If you haven't heard about it, it's amazing.

So, Sean, I want to go into kind of the way I wrap everything up, and those are three things. Number one is if someone wants to get a hold of you, if someone wants to, whether it's an email, chat on social, whatever that looks like, LinkedIn, what's the best way to contact you? Yeah. So you can shoot me an email at Sean, S-E-A-N at 4energy, F-O-R-Energy.com. You can find me on Instagram at Sean K. McGraw. You can find me on LinkedIn, Sean McGraw. Shoot, I'll even give out my cell phone number because I am a connector. My cell number is 248-895-2662. I'm accessible in a lot of different ways. Give me a call if you have any questions on anything.

You want solar on your house? You want an energy audit? Shoot, you want a new friend? Give me a call. Hey, what's your Snapchat? No, I'm just kidding. Not on Snapchat anymore. And, okay, so I always ask, we've talked about the Go-Giver.

We've talked about when friends and influence people give me three books that maybe you know we've all heard of influence we've all heard of talked about a lot of books you know me we go back and forth you've got audible you learn how to adjust the speeds we're big audibles tell me tell me about a few books that you'd really recommend it doesn't have to you – we always talk about this Help My Business. It could be something that maybe helped your marriage or something that brought you closer spiritually to yourself or whatever that looks like. But maybe some different books that – we know the e-myth. Totally.

So I'm going to give three books and two of them we have mentioned in this podcast. But the first book is The Go-Giver. I mean this is a book that you can take the principles, first book is The Go-Giver. I mean, this is a book that you can take the principles, the laws of The Go-Giver and apply it to your friendships, your relationship, your business, just genuinely how you treat people across the board. The second one is Two Second Lean. This is something, again, that you can apply to your business. You can apply to home, although some of your husbands or wives might hate you for doing this. But you can lean up your house for sure. And the third one, and this is more so for business, is the four disciplines of execution. This book, if implemented properly, it just works.

And it gives people that scoreboard that allows them to know if they're winning or losing. It creates a cadence of accountability. It's four disciplines that if you implement them in your business, your organization will be stronger across the board. Period. You're going to need that one. You're going to need the four disciplines. Who's the author? Don't author me.

All right. I won't author me. All right. I won't author you. Last thing we do is we talked about a lot. I think there's so many aspects of a business. But when I go back to the beginning of even looking at the Christmas light business, what I realized now is motivating people. And I do that through compensation programs, recognition, disciplining one-on-one, really in a public spot, praising them.

And there's so many little things. But take yourself back to really to those vital years. Not, you know, I know there was years that I was around with my garage doors. Really, I wasn't in the business as I am now. Yeah.

And I wasn't working on it or in it. I was bartending, doing other stuff. And you were going to school and doing other things. So let's talk about what the mindset really, what will help you transform yourself into who you're becoming today? What are some of those thoughts? What do people need to work on? What's your last kind of, I'll give you the floor to discuss anything that will help somebody from that. To get to that next level, I don't care how big you are.

Yeah, for us at this given stage, take all the things I said and apply those like building process and procedure. After that, it's being the mindset of collecting and raising talent. Collecting and raising leaders, right? If you've got that mindset and you're constantly taking on good people and plugging them into a system that works, the sky's the limit. And some of the best organizations ever, that's what they do. They take on and create leaders. And that's what I'd say. And that's what we're up to here at 4Energy. And we're always going to be doing that. That's our mindset. And that's our plan for growth. If we can continue to take on awesome people and treat them and continue to be able to offer them more and make this a better place to work with culture and comp plans and all

that kind of stuff taking care of your people and bringing on good people they will take care of our customers and generate more of them for us so that's what I'll leave you with I love it and I just want to add one thing to Sean's little notion there is I've had a guy working for me for three years. He's been number one every year. Yesterday he had his best day ever. And we took him and I want you to better your best. I think that's the best way to say it is forget everybody else. I don't want you to compare yourself to David and Goliath, if you will. I don't want you to compare yourself to this guy. Just better your best. Yeah. Continue to strive for the best and aspire to be number one. Those are just the

competitiveness. So great job, brother. Thanks for having me. Hey, I just wanted to take a quick minute and thank you for listening to the podcast. You know, most people don't understand this, but the way that the podcast has grown is when people subscribe and they leave a review. So if you would please, please, please, Wyatt's top of mind, take a quick minute to subscribe and leave a quick review. It'll help me out so much. If you just took a little bit of time right now, I can't tell you enough how much I appreciate the listeners and the feedback. And also when you subscribe, what I'm going to do is let you know the next guest coming on the podcast. And I'll let you email me anything you want me to ask

that next person coming on. All the pros I have on here, I want your feedback. I want you to subscribe so you can start giving me the questions you want me to ask and help us grow together. Also, I'm giving away my book for free now. All you got to do is go to homeservicemillionaire.com forward slash podcast. You got to cover the shipping and handling, but I'm giving the material out for free. It's 200 pages. It's a hardcover book. Homeservicemillionaire.com forward slash podcast. I appreciate each and every one of the listeners.

And thank you for making this Home Service Expert podcast a success. I hope you're having a great day. And thanks again.