The Home Service Expert Podcast - How to Transform Your CRM Into a Time-Saving Machine

Episode Date: November 8, 2019

Logan Shinholser owns Full Sail Marketing, helping contractor companies build their brands and attract more customers over the last six years. He is also the host of the Contractor Growth Network podcast, where he shares his expertise in inbound marketing, residential contracting, marketing, construction, lead generation, and entrepreneurship with his listeners. In this episode, we talked about relationship marketing, digital marketing, SEO...

So to understand that if you are in a visual industry your website needs to look you need to put as much pride in your website that you do your Truck wrap and your yard signs and all the things that you see every single day and then from that you can actually This is gonna be crazy. You can actually pre-qualify from your website So when a client calls you up and says hey, I want to get a quote on a kitchen You can direct them to the site and say, all right, great. Do me a favor.

Hop on my website. Have you seen some of the pictures of the stuff that we can do? And you can actually walk them through that, you know, what you can do. Because the last thing that you want to do is show up and they say, Oh, I want X, Y, and Z. And you're like, Oh yeah, we don't do that. Or they're thinking $3,000 for a kitchen remodel and you start at 20. So there's a lot of pre-qualifying that you can do using the visuals

of your website. So I would say it's kind of marketing that's more on the sales side of things, but man, your website should be a selling tool both before the initial call and then after the initial call. Welcome to the Home Service Expert, where each week, Tommy chats with world-class entrepreneurs and experts in various fields, like marketing, sales, hiring, and leadership, to find out what's really behind their success in business. Now, your host, the home service millionaire, Tommy Mello. Welcome back to the Home Service Expert. My name is Tommy Mello,

and today I have Logan Shinholzer on the line. And just a quick bio about what Logan's done. He specializes in inbound marketing, residential contracting, marketing, construction, lead generation, entrepreneurship, and podcasting. He owns a company called Full Sail Marketing. He's the CEO for the last few years. He's worked as an Indeed account executive, and he's done some stuff with his dad at Premier Ponds in the marketing director consulting role. He's the host of Contractor Growth Network Podcast. He's been running marketing campaigns for contractors in the home improvement, painting, landscaping, water feature installation, and lighting industries for the last six years. Logan, how are you doing? I'm good, man. I appreciate you having me on.

You know, it's all about giving back. I just love this business, the contractor world. What do you love about it most? I love that every single person that owns a business has a different struggle. And the more that I start podcasting and talking and going to events, I met a lot of people and read a lot of books, but I learn every time I get somebody on this podcast. And I just love, there's so many different ways we all do the same things. There's no right or wrong way, but I just love the breakthroughs. Yeah. It's funny. I was listening to one of your podcasts and it was the website. I forget his name, but he was talking about websites and he had like a long list of credentials. I'm like, man, this guy knows what he's doing. But then lo and behold,

he and I have the exact same like principles and understanding of websites. So I was like, oh, thank God, like I'm not going against this dude that's been around for 20 years. So Was it Matthew Woodward? British guy? Yeah, Matthew Woodward, that dude. Yeah, it was funny. I'm like, oh, I'm like, if I'm going against him, I don't know what I'm going to say. But it was like the exact same stuff. So I was like, like a sigh of relief. So yeah, super pumped to be here, man.

Yeah, well, listen, you've done a lot in the past. You were just telling me the story about trying to get through the Navy, which I was just listening. We're doing this book. We do our book club and we're actually going through the E-Myth now. We just went through, start with Why by Simon Sinek. And I listened to it this morning and it was talking about the skinny version of you versus the fat version of you is they battle each other all the time. And a super cool book. I just was at service round table and Ken Goodrich did his release with the HVAC world. And it's just so much fun to learn about these different things. So you try to go to the Navy and it's a pain in the butt. And I couldn't even imagine. I knew that the military wasn't for me, but you started helping your dad and all of a

sudden all of his buddies started to say, hey, Logan, I need your help too. Tell me a little bit about the entrepreneurship journey to where you're at today. Sure, man. So growing up in this household with my dad, who's always had his own business, I was trying to get into the Navy and I'm doing the marketing stuff for my dad's pond company, just working with Tom Reber, trying to help my dad's pond business generate leads of people that actually want to work with him. So I ended up getting into the Navy, Navy SEAL program, going through buds, and I get into hell week. And for those of you out there that have, you know, know anything about it, it's pretty challenging. And it pushed me to my limits. And I realized I wasn't as tough as I thought I was. So my biggest takeaway from all of that is

really like, even though I was like checking off all the boxes of all the stuff I needed to do, all the workout plans, I ended up moving to San Diego to train beforehand, all that stuff, simply checking off the boxes wasn't enough. Like if I really wanted it, I needed to like go above and beyond and like really go out there and, and take it. So that's kind of the mentality I guess I have now with business of like, just doing the stuff that you should be doing is fine, but it's not quite enough. So that's for as humbling of an experience as it was, I took a lot away from it. So then moved on past that, went in and started doing inside sales over at Indeed, did nights and weekends for my dad, still helping him grow his business. And then had a couple of his buddies come to me and just say,

hey, do you want to do this for me? I said, sure. And then just started picking up clients. And that was all. I guess I quit indeed August of 17. And as we're recording, this is pretty much November of 19. So two and a quarter years ago. And just have been ever since just totally addicted to the whole game of growing a business.

And I know you're a big reader and a big listener to stuff. That's where I get most of my information, I would say, at this point is just straight up learning how the big dogs do it and just applying what they do to my business and seeing how it works out. So I've been truly, I guess, blessed, would be the right word to say the least between my dad and then going through what I went through to now come out where I am today. That's awesome. So you, you work with these guys and you mentioned earlier, usually they're lower urgency. You know what that means to me is water restoration is urgency and it's a different landscape. Can you explain to me the difference between the marketing styles of urgency versus non-urgent? Yeah. So urgent services is going to

be like you said, restoration, remediation, roofing, things where something happened and you need to get a contractor, if you're a homeowner, out to their house ASAP. So at that point, they're really focused on speed and getting somebody out there, less on price or reviews per se. Those are still important, but it's a different ballgame. I focus on lower urgency, meaning remodeling, landscaping, ponds, custom homes, all the things that nobody, no homeowner is going to die if they don't hire you today. So that's what I focus on. And it's a completely different ballgame as far as marketing goes, because one is a quick, you know, make sure you show up at the top of Google because when somebody searches, they're going to be looking at that first person. And that's the faster,

higher urgency contracting business. But on my side of things, it's all relationships. The exact same relationships that you have with people in person, building those online. So I get to dive pretty deep into, you know, from Google to websites, to Facebook, and I kind of use the full spectrum to try to, you know to help contractors build those online relationships with prospects in this digital world. So it's completely different, which I love that side of things because it really is like from the very beginning to the very end, it could be a sales cycle of like two years and it takes forever sometimes. But when the leads come in, it's a pretty cool feeling. So there's two aspects too, because when I think about a pond, unless you go into

really servicing that pond on a monthly basis, it's kind of a wham, bam, I'm done, kind of like a garage door versus when you talk about certain other industries, you got that recurring income, almost like a SaaS model. Which one do you prefer? I'm in the garage door industry, as you know. And hopefully, if I fix the door correctly, I might sell a service agreement, but the service agreements are not really profitable until they go to replace their garage door again. I mean, they're probably a break even, which is a big misconception that most people think, oh man, service agreements are it. But the real reason why people write service agreements is because they want to replace the equipment in the next three to five years. But tell me a little bit about the difference between the reoccurring versus more of that one-time big ticket.

So I'm a big Grant Cardone guy. So I love the whole idea of cashflow. So let's say in the pond and landscape world, I'm a huge proponent of, if you're gonna go install something, make sure you do the maintenance on it. And the maintenance, just like with ponds, I mean, some pond contractors are doing it on a monthly basis. So it's just every single month and they have all these maintenance contracts

and that is really where they're making their money because every time you go back out there to maintain the pond, or if you're a landscaper, you go back out there to redo the gardens or whatever, that's your opportunity to upsell. So you're literally just getting paid to go back out there and just sell more work. Now, it's also super profitable because if you do your margins right, all it's costing you is just some labor. And if you know how to sell, then you've already gotten to the door once. All you got to do is just get back out there over and over and over, make your money doing maintenance, but then you get to upsell

along the way. Now, when we do stuff for remodeling and home building, that's a bit of a different ballgame. So home building is a tough one because just like you said with your garage doors, if you're putting the home in correct, then you're not going back out there a year later to remodel their kitchen. Now, with remodeling, the amount of times that you get out there just to, let's just say, for example, do their kitchen, and then the inevitable, oh, well, while you're here, could you just tackle X, Y, and Z? That's the whole goal of what we try to do. So you can do kind of service agreements and stuff with remodeling.

And it's almost like you're just, you're partnering up with like a handyman just to say, Hey, look, like, you know, we're going to do some basic service agreement. If you got to go back out there and do a honeydew list, we can tackle that or you can tackle that. But with remodeling, it's really just the idea that if they have enough money for the most part to remodel their kitchen, they most likely have other projects in the back of their mind that as soon as you get out there, it's kind of game on for that. So I love if you can have a recurring revenue stream, like a SaaS product, and that's way more doable in landscaping

and ponds and anything that has to constantly be maintained, but inside it's a little bit tougher. You know, I used to have a landscaping company and what I found with most landscaping companies, I used to go to a lot of residential and then all of a sudden I started really separating myself from the pack and getting really good at the sprinkler systems

and going in on Saturdays to these commercial properties. And it was mostly blowing parking lot and fixing drip systems and making sure I put perennials, making sure the flowers always look good. But the payouts were ridiculous compared to residential. And those are more of, you gotta go in and get it. They're more of those relationship marketing, which I think most companies are really losing that aspect now. And that tell you just without my Google guarantee, without my Google My Business page, which is the local, without any of that stuff, just my website

does over a third of all my business. And it's kind of scary. And it's kind of exciting. I mean, what would you say about that in your professional opinion? Well, I love so let's go back to that example of you going more on the commercial side of things. So I love that because with one of our clients, they're a landscaper and they're in the exact same situation where the only way that they're really going to penetrate into the commercial world, which is good money, big contracts, long-term contracts, is they got to go knock on doors. They got to keep showing up and somehow get past that gatekeeper. And how we help is we

just target them online. Hell, the gatekeeper and the actual property manager, if you can, and just try to show the brand over and over and over. So when our client walks into their office, they're like, yep, we know exactly who he is because of all the online stuff. So you're absolutely right with building those relationships and you can actually do it. You know, we love connecting all the offline stuff with all the online stuff just to make it a little bit easier. So you're not walking in totally unknown. People kind of have an inclination into why you're there. So I love that side of things. But then as far as like the diversification of all the relationship stuff that you're building, I mean, it's really super cool to actually like

have like so many different streams of leads coming in from the website to your Google business listing to your Google ads, all that kind of stuff because you never know when a huge thing happens like what Facebook did, I don't know, a couple of years ago where they just said all of a sudden, Oh, by the way, we're going to stop showing business and publications information as much online, like on the newsfeed. And then all these different businesses are now

scrambling to figure out what's next. And because they had all their eggs in one basket, they were kind of SOL. But with a website, when you own that, you get to kind of dictate what happens. So it's cool to hear how you're building that because relationships are just, they're never going to go away. Yeah. And it gets you through those bad times and relationships are, I got to tell you, I get so many calls to my cell phone or through Facebook or, you know, message or whatever it might be on a weekly basis. And my plan is to grow leaders of marketing. And that means that I got my guys going on social media every day, whether it's Instagram, Snapchat, Facebook, Twitter. And right now, I have a call tracking number for them so that they make $50 per call, whether they run it or

not. They make their regular money if they run it. But as long as it's a completed job over $100. So people will say, well, man, you're giving away kind of a lot by doing that. But it's better than getting guys doing work on the side. It's all tracked through service Titan. You've probably heard me talk about service Titan, but what's cool is service Titan paved the way. I think for a lot of other companies, you've got a lot of amazing CRMs. How important is a CRM for what you do when you're working with a company? So for me, I work with smaller companies. So I'm not working with, you know, somebody that has nine teams and eight salespeople. I guess that's more like the roofing side where you have stuff like that. For me, my goal is to just get you set up to the point where

you've got stuff automated, right? People are coming to your website, they're downloading whatever guide we've got. And then you're just, you're set up for all the email stuff. Truthfully, a CRM is huge if you're disciplined enough to do it. Because the amount of times that I'll talk with somebody and they go, well, I've got HubSpot. I'm like, oh, sweet. Like, what are you doing in HubSpot? Well, nothing. Okay. Well, are you at least updating contacts? Eh, kind of. So all these tools, a CRM is a fantastic thing to use, and we use it internally, and it helps us out all the time. I mean, the amount of times that I'll talk to somebody and then tell them over the phone, hey, this is what this costs. Then they

come back six months later, and I'm like, shoot, what did I tell them the price was? Because I can't remember everything. I go back to my CRM and it's all right there. So if you're a contractor and you're having people come back to you a couple of different times, I mean, it's huge to have that just for your notes sake, but then to have stuff automated where it's all tied together. I mean, I've personally never used Jobber, but I've always heard people just jump in and go, this is like the greatest thing for my business ever. So if you're, I guess, disciplined enough to use it, it's a total game changer. But then again, that's everything in business is it's just like a third technology, two thirds of

how are you actually executing using it? Yeah, I agree. I mean, I can't tell you how many times I do an audit on my, whether it be American Express Visa, whatever anybody uses, hopefully not Discover. Because when I used to serve tables, I used to always make jokes about Discover card, like discover how to tip because I always left the crappiest tips. But anyway, yeah, when I'm auditing my credit cards, I look at it and I'm like, how many different softwares? Why are we still paying for MailChimp? Oh, we use it once in a while. I was like, well, they have a $10 account. Why are we paying for the $100 account? And then you see these Adobe suites and I'm like, we bought Adobe on every...

And the one thing I can't stand is living in the past. That's why I have people around me. But I went through my Amex the other day. And I mean, dude, I found in comparison to how much we do, it's a sliver of a percent, but it adds up to lots of money over the course of a year. And it's something that I definitely recommend everybody doing today that's listening to the podcast is get on their American Express. Are you really going to use that LA Fitness? Look, you haven't used it in a year. Why not just get a little set of weights at your house? When you start using that for six months, get the LA Fitness back. Another thing, cancel all of your paper invoices. Use online and use email updates because they charge you for that. And so this is an old story real quick, Logan,

because I love this story. Somebody went into Amex and Amex hired a consultant and they said, look, we need to come up with an extra $100 million a year. Then he said, okay. So he came back to them in a week and said, we're going to send out a letter saying we're charging people, but it's going to be a little slip on their bill that says we're charging them $3 for paper invoices. Well, there's already hundreds of thousands of members of Amex and most people just pay it. So then Visa did the same thing after Amex did it. And then you've got all these companies that are still sending you mail that are charging you for it. And like I said, it's not a lot of money and most people are like, oh, whatever. I'll just, I like my paper invoices, but why? Set up auto pay, read the book Profit First by Michael Michalowicz. Make sure you got separate accounts, especially small businesses and go that route. I mean, that's one of the things I see a lot of companies do, Logan,

is mismanage money, especially when they're small. Is that something that you've noticed? And it's so easy because like, think of like for you, all the softwares that you have, that if you just streamlined it and, you know, got rid of all the crap that you didn't need and it's small in the grand scheme of things. But what if you just put that into like bonuses for your employees or you did something else fun with it? You know, again, in the whole aspect of your total revenue for the year, it's peanuts. However, that could really change some of the lives of your employees.

And all it takes is just a little bit of diligence of going in and just monitoring stuff and going, you know, like, do we absolutely need to have this? Because we've done that too. You know, we'll have a CRM and then we'll have, well, the CRMs, the email software is not as good with the CRM. So let's go ahead and get MailChimp or Drip.

And then you start to like, it just adds up and we just have so many redundancies that we don't need. Like I had a, we have a client right now as a remodeler and whenever he finishes a job now, he goes back and just returns the material he doesn't use. And he said, Logan, he was like, before I was thinking, well, the effort is just not worth it. He actually saves about 8%. He makes 8% back just by returning the excess material that he didn't use. And he was like, Logan, this is 8% that just goes to my bottom line.

So think about that, where it takes a little bit of effort and a little bit of attention span to see what you're using that you don't have to be. But man, talk about compound interest and compound effect. Like that stuff can really change your business. The biggest thing I've learned this year, and I mean, I've learned a lot, but you can't cut your way to success. But what I've done is started cutting so much crap, man. I have an automotive shop and I'm like, you guys are

spending how much money on water bottles a month? And then they get their Cintas shirts and their toilet paper. I'm like, we're going to bring this in house. That was a few hundred bucks a month. I mean, and like I said, you can't necessarily cut your way to success, but a lot of us get frivolous and we just get really, really just sporadic with our money spends and go through everything. And another thing you should do is really go through payroll. Overtime. Overtime kills. It kills so bad. It's time and a half. And I came up with all these things for overtime in my Christmas light business. I mean, we were getting burned with 70 hours a week. And I was like, okay, we're going to start having all the other guys except for the foreman meet us at the first job. And then we're going to make sure we dispatch properly and get the last job

near where the first job was at the very worst. And that way, the foremen are making a little bit more, but the foremen were mostly on a performance pay slash salary. So it just made sense. And then we said, okay, let's pay the minimum wage and then give them a bonus. So by giving the minimum wage and a bonus, they not only were more efficient and got things done in less time, they made more money, but they made way more money for the company. While also the time and a half was only, it was, I think it was $10 last year. So it cost us $15 for overtime, but the performance pay made more than that. And it's like, I'll tell you this, Logan, compensation programs mean a lot in controlling your overtime. It's just a huge deal. So what was the straw that broke the camel's

back that you said, you know what, this is ridiculous. We need to sit down and figure this out because we can't keep up with this 70 hours a week for the lighting company. Well, the one thing is I kind of look at what's in the bank. A lot of people are like, oh, this is what this is. This is what this is. And we invested quite a bit of money and I wanted an ROI, a return on investment faster. So that caused me to really look into the numbers and really look at what's in the bank and really understand what my payroll was. And these numbers are out there

for different types of businesses. There's industry standards. In the garage door business, you're not gonna see the same EBITDA, the profit as you might see in a HVAC company. But we've managed to kind of get there through the great economy, door sales and service agreements. But I defy all the odds. And when somebody says I can't do it, that pushes me to want to do it more. But I'll tell you, knowing your numbers is something that

I never really was good at until I found the really, really good controller in the company. And he's been refining it, refining it, refining it. And then when he refines it again, I say, I want graphs on this. I want to be able to take a quick peek and know exactly. I want to see last week's data, last month's data, last quarter's data. And I want to compare that. Are we moving in the right direction?

What's our goal? And by really understanding the fundamentals of improving certain lines, it starts making the company lots and lots of money. And everybody knows we're headed at some point for a recession. It might not be next year. It might not be in the next 10 years. But at some point, we are. And what I told everybody two weeks ago, I said, let's pretend like we're going into a recession. Let's pretend that we got to just cut the fat off of everything, off of payroll, off of the waste management coming too often, off of the electricity bills. Let's really get tight.

And I think most of them took me seriously. Some of them were like, oh, great. What's this all about? But really increased that bottom line and we've done a good job, but I know that we've got a long way to go. So this fourth quarter here is what it's all about. It's really cutting, cutting, cutting.

And we're not gonna cut our way to profit, but we're also improving. The real way to make money is through sales and marketing and you specialize in marketing. For me, I'm just getting rid of trimming the fat. And I think this should be done every year. I mean, we've renegotiated our credit card fees. We've renegotiated our auto insurance, our health insurance. I'm talking hundreds of thousands of dollars. Our workman's comp just got cut down more. We started realizing that sending guys to urgent

care and paying for those bills were much cheaper than the bottom line of what it would cost to actually get the workman's comp to pay for it. So all little things that better businesses, bigger businesses know, and the small guys don't have a chance unless they listen to stuff like this and start understanding their business and start asking for help. And the problem with the small business as we all do it is you don't know until it's too late. You don't know that you have these opportunities to call somebody up and go, hey, look, this is just a bit too pricey. Let's have a conversation.

Because you just kind of put your head down and you're like, well, I'm just too busy with the business. And you're just so in it that all it takes is just opening up your mind. And when you're driving to the job site, listen to stuff like this. And obviously I'm preaching to the choir because these are the people that are listening to stuff like this. But I don't know. It's funny. When I got into business, I'm sitting here and I'm just like, I'm working, working, working. And everybody's like, hey man, why don't you just take it easy? And it's just like, no, like I have to like pay my dues. And I think that's like this mentality. Cause I'm,

so I'm 28. Tommy, how old are you? Uh, 22. I'm 36. Okay. 36. So you're, you're like on the older side of millennial still though. Right? Yeah. Yeah. I'm still, I'm the first millennial pretty much. Yeah. So I know for, for me, I'm like, no, I got to pay my dues. That's just what you do in this business. But in reality, like you're going to fail in business, right? You're at some point you're going to have setbacks, but why have setbacks at step one? You know, listen to what other people are doing. Take the information from all these big time companies and apply it to yourself and then get to step one, then step two, then step three and fail at step four.

Don't fail at step one because then you're just going to be reliving the exact same year of business 10 times in a row versus being in business for 10 straight years. So it's just all the information's out there. You just got to be receptive to it. So that's why I love all this podcast stuff because it's just it's so easy You just got to sit there consume it and even if you implement five percent of what some of the big dogs are saying You're going to be that much further ahead in business absolutely, and

I am one of those guys that I go out there and I experiment and I want to Could I tell you one of the experiments i'm working on? Okay. So this is a marketing experiment. So number one, I'm working on aggregating data, which means we're working on some, some API integrations that will text message. We'll be able to email, we'll be able to send a voicemail blast. We'll be able to write a handwritten letter that looks like a handwritten. It actually takes my handwriting. And it's a blue pen that writes it in my handwriting. And it puts a real stamp on it, everything.

All to past customers. It's amazing. I got a list of about 100 things I'm going to do with it because some of it is to build relationships with bug companies. Some of it is to go after the main person or home warranty companies. Some of it is to meet HOA presidents. So there's that side of it, but here's the main piece. We go into a new city. So pretend all those small businesses out here. I'm going into, let's say a, a Lincoln, Nebraska, and it's A1 going in there. So I hire five technicians and

one installer. First thing I'm going to do is do Groupons. I'm going to do stupid Groupons, $29 for tune up and all your rollers replaced, just stupid cheap stuff. I'm going to do bottom rubbers for free when we come out for a service call. Whatever it is, it's just going to be like smoking deals, not on electronics because I'll lose my butt on electronics. But my goal is to find the biggest people on Instagram, on Twitter, on social media, and find the people that have 5,000 friends or huge deal on Instagram. And they're called influencers. And then what I'm going to do is say, listen, get your friends, neighbors, family, and post all over the place. I'm going to have these guys,

all of them sponsored ads on their pages, all my technicians. And then we're going to go in there. I'm going to meet the bartenders that have a lot of friends because it's pretty easy. I used to be in the bar industry, so I know how to kind of get with them. And I'd like to do probably 500 jobs. And here's the one thing I'm going to tell them. I'm going to do a Yelp deal for $200 off. I mean, it's going to be stupid. And all I ask you to do is take a before and after picture, give me a testimonial, put a yard sign, give me a next door, a Google, a Facebook, and a Yelp. But only if you like the work we did. I'm not asking you to review me to do the work. I'm asking you if we show up on time and do a great job. See, most companies say,

do me a favor and leave me a review. I'm asking them to leave 10 reviews and before and afters and testimonials while at the same time having my technicians get the practice, right? They're getting all the practice in the world to work on this kind of stuff that we don't normally sell like bottom rubber. So my guys are getting good. Have you ever heard of a soft open at a restaurant, like friends and family? Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is the same concept. We're going in there and we're doing the same exact thought process. But here's the thing. That one month of doing this will cause so much of a frenzy, the PR that we'll get out of it, everything that'll go nuts. And now we just set the high bar for the rest of the five years. And the cool thing is everybody's happy. We didn't lose a ton of money. I mean, literally I figured out the math. It's probably going to cost around $16,000. Do you know how much people spend on a radio ad or a TV ad when I could do that? It's unbelievable. I mean, talk about like stuff that's outdated and just way way way overpriced I mean the the approach that you know to come in use what's working in 2019 and beyond with all the social media stuff

I'm here in charlotte, north carolina, and we've got a couple like instagram You know what's going on in the city like those kinds of accounts and if you put something up there I don't know what they charge to have people sponsor with them, but it's just so ingrained in conversations where I'll say, oh, did you see what happened on Charlotte Agenda? So if you can do it right and you just get your stuff in front of them,

I mean, you're literally just blitzkrieging the town and it's just game over for everybody else. That's a pretty interesting approach because I'm guessing when you're rolling this thing out, I mean, it's just game over for everybody else. That's a pretty interesting approach because I'm guessing when you're rolling this thing out, I mean, it's not really a soft opening. You're hitting it pretty hard, huh? Yeah. I mean, at the end of the day, to get in there and make a huge influence in that city. And then here's another thing that you should do is start your Google My Business a little bit in advance. I mean, don't get fake reviews. That's not what I'm promoting. I mean, don't get fake reviews.

That's not what I'm promoting. I'm saying get your location set up. Get a small location. Get it dialed in. Make sure there's good traffic. Make sure people see it. And then start working on your citation sites and start building all that stuff

and geotagging all your photos. And this stuff takes some time. And Google, there's one thing you can never do with Google is you can't push time into it. Everything else you can do a lot of stuff like guest blogging and writing good content and making great videos. But time is one thing that Google just doesn't let you buy. So the earlier you get that Google My Business page up

and start building some links on your site and letting it get older in time. See, there's no better time to start. And Logan, you could definitely talk to the audience here. There's no better time to start with guest blogging and building the content than now. Am I right? Yeah. Cause the way to like Google, they're just the same way that you create a relationship with somebody. Google does the exact same thing. So the last thing that Google wants to do is just show some company to a homeowner or a prospect that's searching for it. And Google is not 100% sure that they're a reliable company. Because if that prospect has a bad experience, then they're not going to want to come back to Google. And then Google loses a bunch of money because the person's not coming back and clicking on their ads. So it's all just relationships. So the sooner you can get started with Google and

the tough thing about Google is it's only getting harder with the more people that are, I guess, adopting the internet, which is, I guess, people are still coming around for that. But the sooner you can get in there and the sooner you can start this stuff, it's just a time piece. You can't force a relationship. So if you start the time or let's say at like the one year mark, you're better doing it now versus waiting a couple months. Because I hear this all the time with a lot of people where they go, well, you know, Logan, before we start to work together and get leads, you know, should I get a whole team assembled and this and that? And I'm like, no, I'm like, this stuff takes time. Like if I could just snap my fingers and, you know, make a million leads that show up overnight happen, trust me, I would be in a much bigger space at this point, but it's just, you're selling relationships.

So before you get all your ducks in a row behind the scenes, like you got to start this stuff online because it does take time. So if you're sitting there putting off like, well, let me set this up, but I want to wait for everything to be good to go on the backend. Don't, just set it up. Google's going to do its thing.

It's going to take some time. And then trust me, by the time that you're ready, Google will at that point actually be a little bit behind and you're waiting for it to catch up. So don't delay on this stuff. It's funny is how many people are listening to say, I'm going to start this diet or I'm going to stop drinking soda.

I'll stop drinking coffee right after this Hawaii trip or alcohol, or I'll start sleeping more. I'll finally go through that closet or I'll finally start posting on closet, or I'll finally start posting on social media. You know the differences, Logan, of people that I've seen be successful versus not? What? Is the ability to start. They all procrastinate, and they have a hard time staying in it. The crazy thing is they never stay in it. They wake up and they go, we worked out two weeks.

We haven't seen the results we want. And then you've got your other person that tells yourself, I don't want to do this today. Then we fall back into those old habits. And the same thing happens. I go to a lot of seminars and different things like that and read a lot of books and stuff. And I'll come out and I'll do all these great things and it'll be going perfect and I'll be killing it. Then all of a sudden something happens that triggers me to go back to the old way.

And it's the ability to get started and stay started and keep it and make it habitual. And it's not easy. I mean, you know as well as I do. I mean, is there anything lately that you've really been focused on that you've wanted to do? So, I mean, we've been pushing more and more, so we like to have our own podcast and video stuff. So we've just been pushing, pushing, pushing on, on adding content to that, which

I'm sure as you know, man, it gets exhausting sometimes. Like you got to be on for this podcast. You can't just kind of come in like half asleep. So setting a schedule has like been a game changing of like we, you know, and what we do like on our YouTube channel is say we have videos that come out Monday, Wednesdays and Saturdays. So now we're forced to come out with videos on Mondays, Wednesdays and Saturdays. So I love putting the stuff out there for accountability purposes and then just saying, all right, Logan, like figure it out, Wednesdays, and Saturdays. So I love putting the stuff out there for accountability purposes and just saying, all right, Logan, like figure it out. You know, but I know if I keep this like behind the scenes and I just go, well, let me just post a video whenever I feel like it,

it's just never going to happen. So I'm a huge proponent of when you set the goal, put it out there, you know, post this online. Like Tommy, have you ever heard of, um, Andy Frisella? He does a NFCEO podcast. Yeah. I've heard of him. I've never met him. Okay. So he has this program. It's called 75 hard and pretty much a 75 days and you have to do five different things. And one of the things that you have to do is take a progress picture every single day. And the guys who I'm friends with online that take this progress pic of how they're doing and then actually post it on Facebook, well, now you have the entire world cheering you on. I mean, are you really going to falter on that diet or skip drinking that gallon of water that day? You're not. So, you know, whenever you're feeling good,

put your goal out there, put it, you know, send that to friends, send it out online, and then you're going to have to pretty much follow up. But it's always one of those things that as soon as you accomplish it or you finish it, you're like super stoked that you put it out there in the first place. So I'm a big fan of just, if you got something going on, put it out there for the world to see, because now you've only got one option and that's just to do it. You got to do it. You know, accountability partners are so important, I think, but here's the thing. Sometimes we pick a partner that really doesn't influence us or doesn't have the time to follow up on a nightly or daily basis. So the best thing I could recommend is find somebody you want to be like, whether it's a diet, whether it's a good dad, whether it's a good person that's not drinking as

much, or just somebody that you know that sleeps great every night and find out, do they drink tea? What are they doing? What kind of workouts are they doing? Why do they sleep so good? But more importantly, make a time on your schedule to hold each other accountable and say, look, all of us slip. We don't need to lie. We don't need to fall off the bandwagon. We just need to do this. We need to find somebody. There's someone out there that cares about you that'll try, whether it's quitting smoking cigarettes. There's so many things that I know people want to do. And whether it's quit or reduce the amount they do it, whatever it is, I find that sometimes it's easier just to stop cold turkey for a lot of us.

But the problem is it's not a lifestyle. There's no way you're gonna work out four times a day. But if it takes that to get you to where you need to be, then great, but just have realistic goals for yourself or you get burnout. But that accountability partner is so important. And I'm a member of Young Entrepreneur Council. And it's kind of cool that I've got a thousand people I can rely on that are super intelligent, that I can write a question and that does anybody know anything for this?

I've probably got 10 people on my phone that I bounce stuff off of on a daily basis. And to have that is so important to build that part of your network up. Wouldn't you agree? Let me ask you this. How's it feel? Because I know for me personally, I mean, this entrepreneur game, it's lonely. I mean, it's just you. You can't look to somebody else and go, well, the business is going under. What do we do? Because it's on you. So when you have those 10 people that you can hit up, how do you feel to kind of get that weight off your chest? It's kind of nice because I feel like now I have some of those people internally, even though they don't own the business, they act like they own it. So to have those people around

for me that actually I get to work with every day that feel like they almost have ownership. And I'm working on some phantom equity and I want to be careful on how I approach that. But I feel like there's people here that have treated it like their own. And let me give you a quick analogy. I just thought of it. If you take over a kid's life and you're not the real dad or the real mom, but after five years you take over after about when they're 15 years old and you're there every day, you're not the real dad or the real mom, but after five years you take over. After about when they're 15 years old and you're there every day, you're at their soccer games, you're there for their musical symphonies, you're there to help them with their homework and be at their

friend's recital, whatever that might look like. I would assume they pretty much call you dad and you would feel like you're their dad or you're their mom. And I feel the same with some of these people that have been here now for five plus years. It's like, I love being autonomous to make decisions because I've seen it all. And I don't assume they make bad decisions and the economy is great, the business is going great. So I love that part of it. But I also feel like these guys deserve more. And that's a feeling of they've earned it. But it feels good.

Did it answer your original question? To be able to have a decompression, to be able to actually talk about things and talk through them, it stops me from getting bottled up. And it allows me to focus on the future rather than have that lingering past feeling of just resentment or whatever that might look like. How does that feel for you? I'm super fortunate to be in this business and have like a network around me of people that are okay with like, for example, like talking about mental health, right? I know this is probably not where we thought we were going to go with the podcast today, but I mean, stuff like that, just having people around you that are receptive to you going, hey, I'm struggling with this and talking about what does burnout look like, things

like that. And just having a soundboard. I have a business coach that has been just instrumental in one, helping out the business. But now that we've got the business that's streamlined, system after system, we're running it on EOS the business that's like, streamlined system after system, like we're running it on the on EOS. So it's like, I love it. Now it's like working on on me. So it's cool to kind of make that transition. And I can go to him and go, Hey, man, this is what's going on. Am I right? Or am I just way off on this one? And to have somebody go, you know what, dude, like, you're a little bit off. It's super cool to have that. So I meet with a couple other business owners that are my age around here every other

Monday. And we just talk about some of the things that are going on in our business. And it's just like, it's an amazing feeling to know that like, you're not the only person going through this stuff. Like there's so many people out there, but until you actually like open yourself up and be vulnerable, like nobody's going to help you because nobody knows that you're going through it. So I've just found that just by saying how you're really feeling about all this stuff, like it truly does help just both from like an overall like longevity of the business, but also just internally to get that weight off your chest. It's interesting because if you were to ask me the number one thing that makes me successful in business, it would probably be the ability to ask for help. If I'm not even lost,

if I'm going the right direction and I see a gas station and I don't know the area, I'm still going to stop off and ask. And people are like, dude, you ask for help. Like always, like all the time. I'm like, you're right. I find the best, the best in that subject. And then I go there and I'm almost lazy about it. Now I'm just like, dude, this guy knows I can fix a lot of things. I've taken apart mowers before I fixed them. I could rebuild carburetors. I could do all that stuff when it comes to mechanical. But here's the thing. If I know a guy specializes at Honda and he specializes at two stroke engines, whatever that might look like, I'm going to go to him first. And I'm going to say, save me five hours. Whereas my grandpa and my dad, they'd be the first ones to take that apart and say,

I didn't even have to ask for help. And for some reason, maybe it's because I'm an early bird millennial, but I'm just, I'm always asking. Like every turn I can go, can you help me? Can you help me? How do you do this? Tell me how you're so successful at this. And, you know, some people might say, geez, that's just laziness. And I can see how people might say that. And I can definitely see sometimes it is laziness.

But at the same time, having an assistant, having a cleaning lady at the house, having a landscaper, I know how to do all that stuff. I used to actually enjoy it. But now I say, where's my time best spent? And it's almost like the way that I interpret that is that you might be a tad on the, nah, you're probably still in it. The growing up with Google. Hey, what, you know, oh, I want to know more about this, how to do this.

Just Google it. So I'm so used to just like going online and asking the online world for help that maybe that's the difference is because we're so used to doing it online that it's nothing just to ask somebody else. So it's me, you know what, you're right about that. And I go to Google, like, like I watched a history channel, how America was made and the vehicle stuff that I just love learning about this stuff. And there's like, I'll hear a word on like a TV show or a movie and I won't know it. I'll look it up and I'll be like, boom. And I started reading a lot

more. And when you think about, you know, I read a lot, but what's helped me go live on Facebook live and really do this podcast is I'm always reading and learning new ideas and testing them out. And I always have a lot to talk about because I don't live this mundane life. And do you remember when you were a kid? This is a really cool thought. And I'll get back here for the last 15 minutes to marketing and really dive in. But when I was a kid, I used to feel like every day lasted forever. I mean, before I'd start my day, my mom would wake me up. I'd go in the basement and work out with my dad real quick. I'd have breakfast waiting.

Then I'd watch a TV show. Then we'd talk real quick before we left. Then I'd go to the school bus. That was an experience in itself. After I went to my best friend's and waited for him for 10 minutes because he always took longer than me to get ready. And then the school bus. And then the first period, second period. and then the end of the day would come. That was just the end of the school day. Now I get to go home on the school bus. Then I get to

have dinner with the family. Then I get to do my homework. Then I get to talk with my sister. Then I get to go play with my friends. Then I come home and watch a movie. I mean, dude, that day used to feel like it would last forever. And now I'm like, wait a minute, what month is it? Or 2019, how's this possible? But there are people that are 10 times worse than me. And the trick of it is, I think, is to change up your day, change up your routines, do things differently, travel at different times.

Don't book that thing, that trip every time the same year. Don't go to the same place every single time. Make it different. Make your days different. And guess what? You'll be like, wow, yesterday felt like forever. But if you could do that every single day, imagine how much more your life would be.

And I love, I follow this dude named Jesse Itzler, who's, he sold his private jet company to Warren Buffett. And now he's like married to Sarah Blakely, who founded Spanx. And now he's like married to Sarah Blakely who founded Spanx. And he's got this whole program that's called Build Your Life Resume. And the whole idea of that is just,

it's effectively like you're living your bucket list all the time. And as soon as I heard him talk about that, it was like this revelation of like, you know what? Like instead of just doing the exact same stuff over and over and over and over again, like, go out experience it. And just like with what you're saying, like,

life is going to feel longer, and it's just going to feel that much more fulfilling versus just, you know, putting your head down and grinding all day long, which, you know, has its time and place. But man, like variety is such the spice of life that I wish I was better at truly going out and just stopping and smelling the roses because it really is. And you know, I'm still in my twenties. So I don't think I've gotten over the hump yet of like waking up after having a couple of beers and being like, Oh, never doing that one again, but I know it's coming. So I need to really embrace the, these last couple of years of, couple years of being in my 20s before I get over that big hump, you know? Well, I never feel bad about having a few beers.

I don't even care. It's like, are you kidding me? Look, enjoy yourself, but there's got to be – everything's good in moderation. I don't think you can find anything. And there have been times that I've way overdone moderation. But the main thing – I'll tell you this. Lately, I've been working out. I've been doing a lot of cardio, and I so really like energy and just excited and just, I feel like

working out. I feel like I can run a marathon and I have energy and that's important to me too. So let me take us back here a little bit because I really want to start sharing. You specialize in really your online branding and let's talk a little bit about maybe some things that we need to think about today that you could share with the audience of that maybe we haven't thought about. What are some things that we could do that maybe is outside of the box that we've not talked about much on the podcast? So I wish I had a silver bullet to all this stuff. The one thing that I will say that might be a little bit different for this audience is if you're in a

visual space, meaning you do like all the contractors I work with, you know, visual being remodeling, landscaping stuff that you're going to show up for an estimate with the actual, like, like a portfolio of all the stuff that you do, your website needs to be set up in the exact same way. So I see a lot of times with these, you know, visual industries where they have these websites that are, they're great for SEO and they show up high in Google, but it's one picture that they found on some stock image site and then nine paragraphs of text and it just does nothing for the consumer. So to understand that if you are in a visual industry, your website needs to look, you need to put as much pride in your website that you do

your truck wrap and your yard signs and all the things that you see every single day. And then from that, you can actually, this is going to be crazy. You can actually pre-qualify from your website. So when a client calls you up and says, Hey, I want to get a quote on a kitchen. You can direct them to the site and say, all right, great. Do me a favor, hop on my website. Have you seen some of the pictures of the stuff that we can do? And you can actually walk them through that, you know, what you can do. Cause the last thing that you want to do is show up and they say, Oh, I want X, Y, and Z. And you're like, Oh yeah, we don't do that. Or they're thinking $3,000 for a kitchen remodel and you start at 20. So there's a lot of pre-qualifying that you can do using the visuals of your website. So I would say it's kind of marketing that's more on the sales side of things, but man, like your website should be a selling tool both before the initial

call and then after the initial call. Well, you know what you just made me think about is when I go to a restaurant and it's a really nice restaurant and they've got a nice menu with pictures and I'm going to use, maybe it's not such a nice restaurant, but Applebee's and Chili's. Okay. I always, always, always order off of the pictures. I'm like, oh my God, that looks delicious. And when you give people options with pictures and it's visual, because 80% of people are visual. Now you're giving them the options you want them to see. So one of the things I recommend when you talk about that is don't put the cheapest cabinets or the cheapest crown molding or the cheapest baseboards or the cheapest granite or whatever it looks like, the cheapest pool in the picture.

Maybe put a good, better, best, but I would put the things that are super nice, that I make great margin on, right? Don't you recommend that as well? Yeah. The only thing with that is I would say, don't always show the home runs. So I see a lot of times people go, well, I don't want to put this up on my website because I've got one that I'm doing in six months. That's way better. And it's like, well, is that, is that your average job or a little bit better than your average job? So they're only putting up the a hundred thousand dollar projects when in reality, their business is built on the $30,000 projects when in reality their business is built on the $30,000 projects. So I think having, you know, somewhere between your average and then the higher

end. Don't drop below, but don't just go, you know, cause it's the exact same reason that Lexus and Toyota are two different companies, right? They serve as two different sides of the industry, yet they're owned by the same company. So you still got to be smart about that and keep your branding consistent because it's very tough to sell something that's $100,000 or showcase that online and then say, oh, we also do $400 options.

So it's just two totally under the spectrum. So I would say push more for something that's a little bit above your average because in that way, it'll, you know, hopefully raise the overall average job price for you. And then little by little, you're just starting to make more and more money. Yeah, that's really good advice.

And I would say the people that I found that go into a niche, like you did, you kind of said, I'm going to just stick to lower urgency. And you found yourself a niche. And I think a lot of the times you can't be Walmart and say, hey, we've got our Target aisle. We've got our Rolls Royce aisle. If you're Walmart, you're known as the cheapest, best price. If you're Costco, you're known as the best return policy in the industry. We know you don't make a lot of money on the bulk items. What you do make money on is the membership.

I mean, there's certain things that I think most people who have a little bit of a brain understand that. But for some reason, and I've made the mistake too, I'm going to be the top-end door, I'm going to be the middleman door, and I'm going to be the cheap door. But I'll tell you what, all my problems, guess where they all come from. Where do they come from? They come from the cheap, the cheap guys that want it done for nothing. Yeah.

They come from the guys that say, let's make a deal. And it was really hard for me to walk away from anything. When somebody wants to give me money and walk away, but then I realized how much is my time worth and how much are the headaches worth? Same thing, Logan. I say this. Do you know how many things had to go right to get to that job? You had to have a great ad out there, a great website, great house or Pinterest or visual, whatever it is. Something had to go right for them to call or text or email in or whatever it might've been. Then your CSR had to book that phone call, unless you're a really, really, really small company. And then it had to go to the dispatcher.

Then they had to make sure the truck was running correctly and you've got the proper insurance and you've got your tags up to date and you're paying all the tolls to get there. Then your gas bill. Look, I could go on and on. And then you've got your dispatching software. Then you've got, so boom, the phone system, all these things, the computers are working on. So now you're at their house. This is the most annoying thing in the world is when the technician doesn't understand the domino effect of not earning that customer's business. Because what happens is not only do you end up with a poor review, the other company comes in there and eats your lunch. And everything was in vain that happened to get there.

So I'm such a huge proponent of conversion. So many people call me up and they're like, Tommy, everything's pretty good. And then I look at their KPIs and I'm like, first of all, you suck at booking phone calls. Number two, your conversion rate is horrid. So don't come to me with marketing problems until you start booking the calls you're getting until you start converting them when you showed up to the house. Because if you can't figure those two things out, there's no reason to do any more marketing. You see what I'm saying? Yeah. And it's the same thing. I talk to people like that all the time where they're like, well, I just need more leads. I'm like, okay, well, what have you done for your current customers

or their past customers recently? Well, they're good. It's like, well, how do you know they're, what do you mean by they're good? How do you know that? So your past customer list is a gold mine. Like if you think about how much trust you have to build with somebody to get them to spend money with you, I mean, that's why promotional offers work because you can drop your price so much that somebody goes, you know what? I don't really trust this Tommy guy as much because I don't know him, but the offer is too good to pass up. I'm in. But then as soon as they're a customer and they know how you operate and they know everything about you, it's so much easier to buy a second time. It's like a tattoo. The first tattoo that you get, you think about it for a couple of years. Then the second one, you think about it for a year. And then by the third one, it's just game on. So if you're

out there and you've got, you know, an okay past customer list, tap back into that before you start to go out in this huge acquisition mode, because you've only got so much time and so much resources, especially if you're small, your past customers, it's easier. They already know, like, and so much resources, especially if you're small, your past customers, it's easier. They already know, like, and trust you. So it's so much easier just to get back in front of them. So that would be like, that's one of my biggest takeaways when I start working with somebody is, okay, great. Talk to me about your past customer list.

Do you even have one? Because then we always start from there before we go into this whole like land grab campaign. I think that's super, super intelligent. I was just at Service World Expo and one of the guys there, Josh Campbell, he advertises the majority of all of his focuses in 10 zip codes and does about $7 million in those. He does 10 total, but seven in those because he owns his demographic. And one of the guys there, what I was going to say, is makes 80% of his money through his past relationships, not through future work.

And it's amazing when you can hear those numbers because between you and me, and I guess everybody listening, I have 250,000 customers in my database. And you would think that I should be able to produce at least 20 million out of that. And that's one of the things next year that I think we're going to be better at because of the, some of the new tools we're working on being, they call it topa top of mind awareness and frequency is a big thing that comes into that. So yeah,

man, this is great. Let's go speed around real quick here. What do you say to a home service business owner who says they don't need a website? Then you don't need a business because you're going to go out of business in the near future. What do you say to someone that's spending $4,000 a month on their website? What kind of results would you expect from somebody spending in the multi thousands of dollars just straight on SEO? It all depends on the industry. But I mean, at that point, I would fully expect that they're

producing tens of thousands of dollars in actual work, but then also just building up their email list to then sell to them somewhere down the road. So without giving you a hard number, I mean, in the minimum, I would say you should at least be doing probably, if you're spending four grand on SEO, at least 30, 40 grand a month in just revenue from that. I think that's a good number too. Would you say that it's hard to do proper SEO? And what I mean by proper is there's certain restrictions that Google has kind of come up with and there's what's called white hat, black hat, gray hat. We'll talk about white hat.

What are your thoughts on that? And where do you side on? So I don't think it's that hard to do proper SEO. It's when you start to trick Google and you try that black hat stuff. That's when Google figures it out. And then all your efforts are for nothing. So crazy enough, my dad's pawn company, some of the blogs that I wrote five, six years ago that are like, they go against all of Google's pond company. Some of the blogs that I wrote five, six years ago that are

like, they go against all of Google's policies now. They're still number one in Google because it was just a good article and I didn't even know what I was doing and people like it. So I wrote for the audience instead of writing for Google and we're still getting rewarded for it. I think that really making something super interesting to your clients. I posted something on Facebook yesterday and it just had to do with a little trick for your doors when they don't close properly. And I probably had 500 responses. And I'm like, you talk about FAQs and little things and it doesn't necessarily need to be about the garage. It could be just these little tips that you look up. And every month it's interesting. It's fun. It's top of mind awareness. Sometimes you'll add a joke in

there, like a clean joke. But the content strategy is super important. I love talking about this stuff. I mean, it's huge, Logan. So what's the easiest way for a home service business to get started when it comes to search engine optimization? I would say always start off with a website. You got to have a website because SEO and websites are so tied together in the sense that if somebody comes to me with a website and they go, well, I need SEO, and the website does not look good, then it doesn't matter how good of an SEO job you're going to do. Eventually, people are going to come to your site and go, this looks like crap i'm out so i would say make sure your website is set up to build trust and sell for you and then the seo will come on the back end if that kind of makes sense yeah when it comes to the website i think load time how it

looks on mobile there's all these things how it's written how the onsite's done what the meta tags are there's so many people are confused and they just say, my website's my website. It works. It's just kind of something I want on a business card. Well, I promise everybody's got to understand in this world we're going to, that you're going to be able to talk to Alexa. You're going to be able to talk to Google. You're going to be able to talk to Siri and all these different things. And it's going to come to this when they go out and they look for your online reputation. And there's going to be a whole algorithm that's written for people like me that say, Google, take me here. Google, hey, Google, do this. Hey,

I don't want everything in my office responding right now. So I'm trying to be quiet. So let's talk about your podcast for a minute. So contract your growth network. Let's talk about what some of the stuff you put on there. I mean, all the stuff that we're doing for our clients, I put out there. So I'm an open book and I'll say, all right, this is what we just did. Here's the results for it. So it's a lot of just actionable stuff. And it's a bit about marketing. It's probably, I would say 30, 40% about marketing it's probably i would say 30 40 about marketing but the other bit i mean marketing is just one aspect of it because you could generate a lot of leads but if you answer the phone with like hello like nobody's gonna want to do business with you so

it's marketing it's sales and honestly it's a lot of mindset stuff too so if you're a home service provider and you're trying to really like do the right stuff, build those online relationships, then the podcast is going to kind of walk you through some tangible stuff that you can literally put into place today. And then also some mindset stuff, because if you don't believe in the why behind what we're doing, you're not going to do it anyway. So it's a combination of the two. I love it. And give me, you know, I'm going to ask, but give me your top three books. So book number one is going to be Story Brand by Donald Miller. Love that book. Book number two is going to be Traction. And then number three is going to be They Ask, You Answer by Marcus Sheridan.

Tell me about They Ask, You Answer. Have you ever heard of it before? I think I might have it, but I don't know if I've got to it yet. That one, tell me a little bit about it. I think I'll know more. So Marcus Sheridan, who wrote this, he was a fiberglass pool contractor, 2008 hit and everybody pulled their deposits from him. And he said, I don't know what to do. I'm about to go under. And he just started blogging. And all he did was just pick all the top questions that his clients or prospects would ask him. And he would just write a blog all about it. So it's just all about answering questions that people are searching for. Because in our world,

if you look up how many people, let's say, Google the term bathroom remodeler, well, there's like 15 more people in the area that are searching for things like what does a bathroom remodel cost? So it's all about answering questions that your prospects ask to then be top of mind. And, you know, you're hitting them at the top of that funnel. So that's what the book's all about. And I would say your podcast man like marcus sheridan would be an awesome guest so super cool speaker and stuff but he's the author of the book all right you know how i do it i just bought it they ask you answer a revolutionary approach a brand new one that's like a revisited version that talks all about like how you can use video as well. So I don't know

if they have that one on audible yet, but the old one is still just as solid. Okay. Yep. It's here. All right. And then if someone wants to get ahold of you, what's the best way to reach out, Logan? Honestly, if you just go to contractor growth, network.com, we're just going to retarget you and you'll, you'll see how to get in front of us or how to reach out to us. So go there or listen to the podcast Contractor Growth Network. We also have a YouTube channel all under the same name. So super easy to know. Awesome. Is there anything that you want to share with the audience? One last final notion or thought to get them motivated to get at today or maybe just get a process going? I would say as far as the process

goes, just think about how you're going to feel when it's done with. If you've been looking for an excuse to do that one thing to drink less or to go to the gym, just find that one thing, write down how you're going to feel as soon as you start to do that and your life is going to be that much better. So honestly, it's just a get off your butt, write it down, put it out there to the world, and you'll feel that much better. Awesome, man. Well, I gotta tell you, this is a breath of fresh air,

just kind of being able to talk a little bit about mindset, hearing your perspective on a lot of this stuff is amazing. So I appreciate you coming on today. Cool, man. Thank you. Thanks. Hey, I just wanted to take a quick minute and thank you for listening to the podcast. You know, most people don't understand this, but the way that the podcast has grown is when people subscribe and they leave a review. So if you would please, please, please, Wyatt's top of mind,

take a quick minute to subscribe and leave a quick review. It'll help me out so much. If you just took a little bit of time right now, I can't tell you enough how much I appreciate the listeners and the feedback. And also when you subscribe, what I'm going to do is let you know the next guest coming on the podcast. And I'll let you email me anything you want me to ask that next person coming on. All the pros I have on here, I want your feedback. I want you to subscribe so you can start giving me the questions you want me to ask and help us grow together. Also, I'm giving away my book for free now. All you got to do is go to homeservicemillionaire.com forward slash podcast. You got to cover the shipping and handling,

but I'm giving the material out for free. It's 200 pages. It's a hardcover book, homeservicemillionaire.com forward slash podcast. I appreciate each and every one of the listeners and thank you for making this Home Service Expert podcast a success. I hope you're having a great day and thanks again.