The Home Service Expert Podcast - Marketing Like a Billionaire: Inside the Mind of Russell Brunson

Episode Date: July 28, 2025

Russell Brunson is the co-founder of ClickFunnels and a driving force behind the online marketing revolution. From hustling potato gun DVDs in college to building a $100 million software company, he��s proof that big ideas and relentless execution can change everything. With ClickFunnels, he’s empowered over a million entrepreneurs to launch, scale, and automate their businesses without needing a tech team. He’s also a best-selling author of DotCom Secrets, Expert Secrets, and Traffic Secrets — books that have become the go-to playbooks for digital marketers worldwide. Known for his electrifying stage presence and practical, no-fluff strategies, Russell doesn’t just talk funnels — he builds empires with them. His mission? To help everyday people turn their passion into profit, and their message into a movement. Don’t forget to register for Tommy’s event, Freedom 2025! This is the event where Tommy’s billion-dollar network will break down exactly how to accelerate your business and dominate your market in 2025. For more details visit freedomevent.com 00:00:00 AI Intro 00:00:45 Title Sequence Music 00:01:05 Show Notes VO 00:01:50 Intro into Interview 00:28:59 AI Insertion 00:30:14 Interview Resumes 01:13:06 Outro

Hey guys, Tommy here. A couple of weeks ago, I was in the studio with Russell Brunson, a digital marketing genius and the founder of ClickFunnels, who also hosts the top business podcast, The Russell Brunson Show. I posted an abbreviated cut of the interview last week on my other podcast, The Mellow Millionaire with Tommy Mellow. And guys, if you haven't checked that show out yet, make sure to give it a like and follow. We've got a lot of great episodes over there that you don't want to miss with

guests that aren't featured on the Home Service Expert podcast. But today is a special treat for all of my day one Home Service Expert listeners. We're sharing an extended cut of my interview with Russell Brunson, just for you guys. That means over 35 extra minutes of insider tips from one of the most brilliant minds in digital marketing,

only on the Home Service Expert. All right, let's get back to it. Welcome to the Home Service Expert. Alright, let's get back to it. Welcome to the Home Service Expert, where each week Tommy chats with world-class entrepreneurs and experts in various fields like marketing, sales, hiring, and leadership to find out what's really behind their success in business. Now, your host, the Home Service Millionaire, Tommy Mello. Before we get started, I wanted to share two important things with you. Now your host, the home service millionaire, Tommy Mello.

Before we get started, I wanted to share two important things with you. First, I want you to implement what you learned today. To do that, you'll have to take a lot of notes, but I also want you to fully concentrate on the interview. So I asked the team to take notes for you. Just text, notes, N-O-T-E-S to 888 8 5 2 6 1 2 9 9. That's 8 8 8 5 2 6 1 2 9 9. And you'll receive a link to download the notes from today's episode. Also, if you haven't got your copy of my newest book elevate, please go check it out. I'll share with you how I attracted and developed

a winning team that helped me build a $200 million company in 22 states. Just go to elevateandwin.com forward slash podcast to get your copy. Now let's go back into the interview. All right, guys, welcome back. Today is a great day. It's been a fantastic day. I got Russell Brunson in the house. This dude is fantastic. Like if you don't know who Russell Brunson is, you don't understand the marketing side

of your business. Marketing is more important than sales. Marketing's more important than sales, it's more important than anything. You've gotta get the phones ringing, you gotta get the clicks. Russell Brunson is the co-founder and CEO of ClickFunnels, a New York bestselling author,.comSecrets, and a bunch more books, Unlock the Secret,

The Traffic Secrets. He's the host of the Russell Brunson Show. He's a business coach, co-founder, $360 million software company that revolutionized how entrepreneurs sell online. His secrets book trilogy has sold millions of copies and become the playbook for digital marketers. Russell has built a global empire by mastering the art of the sales funnel. So, how did you become so fascinated with funnels? And I know a lot of people that work on funnel hacking and just figuring out how to make the phone ring.

One of my buddies, Josh Snow, genius guy. Just I love hanging out with guys like you because I learned so much. We're nerds. Yeah, for me it was so it's funny because I got the last time I was having a conversation with a young entrepreneur. I was like, I was always a young guy in every room, right? I was like 20, 21 years old when I got started, but that was 25 years ago. So 25 years ago, before Facebook, Instagram, before MySpace, we were trying to figure out how to make money online while I was in college. And it was weird because there was not all these people teaching this.

It was a different world, right? And so we just tried a lot of things. And some things worked and some things didn't. And one of my first businesses I had was teaching people how to make potato guns. That was my first thing. And that was where I started experimenting. So I had a DVD teaching people how to make potato guns. So I set up a landing page.

We drove traffic to it, started making sales. And then that's where it all began. And then from there, it's like, well, how do we make this thing make more money? What does that look like? And then one of my friends was one of the first people ever do an upsell. And he's like, he calls me one day, he's like, dude, he's like, I had an upsell. And back then it wasn't like one click upsells.

You get like put your credit card, the next page, you put your credit card. But he's like had multiple offers and he's like, one out of three people are buying the next thing. I'm like, what? I'm like, how, I'm like, how should I do that? He's like, well, you're selling the DVD. Like what's the next thing somebody needs after they buy the potato gun DVD? I'm like, they got to go to? He's like, well, you're selling the DVD. Like, what's the next thing somebody needs after they buy the potato gun DVD?

I'm like, they gotta go to Home Depot and buy the pipes and the glue and all that kind of stuff. He's like, sell them a kit. And I was like, all right. So I threw up a page, like, they buy the DVD, the next page is like for 200 bucks, buy a kit and all this shit, all this stuff, and you can make it. And sure enough, one out of three people bought that.

And I was like, holy crap. And then we just started testing little things and little things. And so the next decade in my life, it was like, that's all it was. Like we would test a little thing and it would double how much money we made. We'd test this thing, 30% increase, test this thing. And so for 10 years, it was like a nerd in a science lab. We would test things and we made more money.

And I remember, I was never a good student. I never loved school. But as soon as I was like, I would learn something, I would try it, and then my income would go up. I was like, cool. It was like every day. In fact, we had a monitor, it's like, how do you give yourself a raise every day? So every day we come in, how do we give ourselves a raise today? If we can increase conversions by this, if we can get more people to buy the next thing,

we would continually increase how much money we made. And so for 10 years, that's what I was doing in a whole bunch of my own businesses, other people's businesses. And then about that time is when I wrote my first book, Dot Com Secrets, which is like, here's what we learned last 10 years. This is the playbook. And about the same time as we built ClickFunnels, which made it easy. But that's kind of how I got started and why I love this game and I'm still obsessed with

it. I still, every single day, because in my company, I'm the chief funnel builder. That's the idea. I still build funnels all day. My whole team, we have a whole company with 400 employees that do stuff, but my job is Because in my company, I'm the chief funnel builder. That's the idea. I still build funnels all day. We have a whole company with 400 employees that do stuff. But my job is I'm in charge of the funnels. And that's still all I geek out on every day.

I'm obsessed with it. I get all your ads. I use ClickFunnels for several businesses. It's amazing. It makes it so easy. That's the idea is the ease. Like, dude, my first sales letter. I don't know what it was.

Frank Kern and Perry Belcher, Ryan Dice. And I told those guys, man, I want to be like you, I want to be on stages. And they're like, well, how's your business doing? I'm like, we're doing like 30 million a year. They're like in garage doors. And this was 10 years ago. It was in Vegas. And they're like, dude, do not want stages.

We got to come up with the next gimmick all the time. And he's like, we're doing ties now. I think they were doing like, like they were selling ties or suits and they were doing and they're like you remember that I remember the cufflinks the couple yeah and I'm like they're like dude it's it's it's it's they're like do you know the founders of home depot I'm like no he's like exactly he's like most of the people right under the radar and I did I wanted the fame though I wanted people to know me but I wanted to know me like Damon John yeah like to know me, like Damon John.

Yeah. Like we've hung out a bunch of times. He's like, people know me and like me because I build their businesses. They don't ask me to sing a song or tell my favorite movie I produced. What is it like for you? Cause you're the guy, like you're the click funnel guy.

Like you, how do you feel? Is it a good feeling of like a little bit of fame? Is it weird? What is the feeling you get? It's definitely weird, especially I'm very introverted by nature, and so it's always uncomfortable. You know what I mean? And the weirdest thing is like I didn't, for me, I never started out for the fame. Like I was starting out because I was trying to figure out how to make money because it's,

you know, I was a student athlete. I was wrestling. I'd just gotten married. My wife was making 915 hours. I was just trying to figure out how to make money so I didn't have to quit wrestling. And that was my only motivation. I remember having this, I thought, I can make $1,000 a month, that would be it. That was my, in my head at the time, the peak goal, you know?

And then it was weird because it's like the nature of what we started doing. I was doing the funnels behind the scenes, it was fun, but then people started asking me, and then I would share stuff, and then that's when guys like that are like, hey, come speak at our event, tell people what you're doing.

I'm like, ah, it was so uncomfortable for me. But then what was so rewarding is I would go to an event, and I would awkwardly speak, and then you see someone who gets excited, understood it. And I remember, because the first time you learn something new, that feeling of just like, oh my gosh you see someone who get excited, understood it. And I remember because the first time like you learn something new, that feeling was like, oh, my gosh, this is everything's new and exciting. And like, and after a while, it's harder to learn new things.

And then I started sharing things with people and I see them get that in there. I like, oh, my gosh, like they'd have the aha, you know, and like, that feels better than when I had the first time. And then I got addicted to that feeling. And then, yeah, so I started doing the stage and speaking. And then when we launched ClickFunnels is when my whole world shifted. Like it blew up.

And that company went from zero to $100 million in three years. And it was just like, we were everywhere. We were speaking everywhere. It was chaos. And I enjoy it. But it's especially like for my wife here in town, but she's at home. She's very more introverted than me.

And like for her and for our family, it's like it's still kind of weird. It's like one of those like necessary parts of the business, I think. But yeah. Yeah. I think for me, I'm over that part of it now. It's more so like I just love I love watching the people we we train, like go and do cool stuff. That's more rewarding for me at this point, you know. No, 100 percent.

And I love it, too. When the light bulb turns on. I did yesterday – I just did a virtual event. There was 150 people. Then I did another one. There was 500 people. And the questions were – I could – you couldn't keep up with the – and I'm like – I get very excited just – I'm like this one little thing when somebody walks

up to you and says, dude, I was on the verge of divorce. I stopped going to church. I was drinking my life away. And then I listen to one podcast or did this one thing. Changed my life. And did our relationships never been better. And that to me is like why I keep doing it because it's hard to be on the road and it's hard.

It's a stress. I don't have kids yet. I'm engaged. I've never been married and my relationship's been with the businesses But there's a lot I want to dig in I got so many questions When is enough enough, you know for you you're changing lives. That's obviously important I asked you earlier that you you've not necessarily building to sell this business What is the goal I asked Gary Vanderchuck the same question.

He goes, dude, I'm having fun. He's like, I just want to see how far I could go. The goalpost always moves. So what about you? Yeah, we had an offer four years ago we could have sold. And that was like that was the time. That's the question. When's enough enough? Like, what's like what's the reason? Why are we doing this? And it was tough. I remember Tony Robbins actually told me, he's like, so if you were to sell it,

what would you do next? And I was like, I would try to build what we have. You know what I mean? I love what we're doing. I love our community. I love our, the thing we built is the thing I've been obsessed with for 20 years. We built, and so it's like, that was like,

for me it came down to like, I don't have something I like more than this that I would rather do. So if I sell it, then it's gone. Then what I did, the rest not have been chasing. I've seen so many people like, who have sold a business they cash out and then they're miserable after that because they're like, you know what I mean? Yeah. So for me, that was we turned we turned down an offer that I was insane in hindsight, like both my partner, I both we both would walk away with $120 million in our pockets on top of, you know, still having equity and all other kind of stuff.

And so that's the question, when's enough enough. And I think, I don't know, for me, it's, it's like, this isn't, I didn't get in business to be able to like, to cash out, like I came to serve and this is the best vehicle I can serve people in, you know what I mean? And unless I could figure out or build a different or better vehicle, like, until I have that or know what that even is, like, there would be no point, but, yeah. I mean, I'm sure you're saying to me, like,

we're not kind of guys who are going to retire someday. No. No, I'm 42. A lot of people are like, we're going to sell out and then we're going to retire. It's like, and then what? And it's like, I'm going to build the next thing. And the next thing, so it's like, I love the thing we built.

Like, why would I, until I figure out something to be cooler, but until then, like, I love this. This game is so much fun. I want to challenge you. This is what I love about thing we built like why would I? Until I figure out something to be cooler, but until then like I love this this game so much fun I want to challenge you this is what I love about Dan Martell Mm-hmm is he's very good because I was like I had an exit I sold 40 or 51 percent of the company And Dan asked me he's like how much you drive and I'm like I did the math 12 hours a week He goes you're gonna hire a driver And I'm like dude. I'm math 12 hours a week. He goes, you're going to hire a driver.

And I'm like, dude, I'm a humble guy, dude. I don't want to show up to work with a driver. And he's like, no, you're also going to hire a chef. He goes, because I know you're eating Uber Eats. We've talked about that. And he's like, it's selfish not to do that. And so what I ask people is like, is your mom and dad still alive? How old are your kids?

Do you have brothers and sisters? How important is the people that work for you? Because you're making all these draws out of the business. The cash flow, you're living good. And so I gave away $100 million on the first deal to 25 people. This next deal is going to be 200 people. And I'm still in control. I am the business.

You're the business. So I strategically look at it and I go, who, if they were invested in me, could open doors because I'm a networker, you're a networker. I mean, you talked about Tony Robb, these guys that you hang out with. They open a lot of doors. So the question is for me, is a relationship of an investor, it could be a minority play. Would that exponentially grow the business and I could – my mom's living her best life. Me and my dad are going on a golf trip next week.

And it's not like we couldn't do that. I had $10 million in the bank and then it ended up being a couple hundred million. And I was like, man, now I could – like my nieces or my niece and nephews have a trust and obviously I don't want them to grow up with – like they're going to start door knocking. Like I know you're a Mormon guy. Like that's the best upbringing ever. I'm like, I'll give you $5,000 just to start your first door knock. So I think it's a vehicle. And trust me, I'm busy enough. I don't golf

enough. But I would just say that if it's just strategic partnership that could double the business in a year. Wouldn't that be the best thing for everybody? I don't know. I'm just, I'm asking you potentially. And I'm not trying to get you to sell. I mean, you know, I just, yeah, no, I think you're amazing. Uh, I want to talk about, you know, I wrestled. Oh yeah.

Yeah. I was a wrestler and I grew up wrestling. I started when I was five. My dad's best friend growing up was all-state seven years in a row. The dude – not seven years in a row, but he went to college and played in high school badass. His name was Harold King. He was world-renowned back then.

I learned that – I was very selfish. I didn't like to play team sports because I was a go-getter and I was like, blame everybody else. I get angry. If I lost't like to play team sports because I was a go-getter and I was like, blame everybody else. Like, I get angry. If I lost, I throw off my head gear. And I learned to beat just my dad taught me to win. That's all I cared about is winning. We didn't get a participation trophy.

If I didn't win in soccer or baseball, I mean, we'd have a serious stern meeting that I didn't be a team player. But wrestling really set me up. And I really like to hire wrestlers because they take the ownership. They're just like, and then I like to hire team players. So they kind of grow into this team player. What did wrestling teach you?

Because you're obviously super competitive if you wrestled. Yeah, wrestling taught me everything. I love combat sports and one-on-one sports because of that. Because you're walking out every single day with no one else around you. Everyone's looking at that, because you're walking out every single day with no one else around you, everyone's looking at you and you either win or you lose right in front of everyone. And it's interesting because I coach a lot of entrepreneurs

and one of the biggest fears most entrepreneurs have is they're scared to, especially first time entrepreneurs, they're scared to try something because they failed in their failure. And so I watch these people who will year after year after year, they read the books, they come to events, they listen to the podcast, they have an idea, but they are so scared of like,

of trying that if they fail, they're gonna be a failure. And so for me, what wrestling, what sports taught me is that like, if I fail, I'm not a failure. Like one of my favorite stories about this, my junior year in high school, started the year, my goal is to be state champ, I wanna do this, everything, right? And I worked hard all summer long, told everybody, like my very first match of the year, my goal is to be state champ. I want to do this, everything, right? And it worked hard all summer long, told everybody,

like, my very first match of the season, I pulled the duty to second place in state the year before. And I was like, okay, this is gonna be proof that I'm good enough, right? So first match of the season, I wrestle this guy and he beats me. And I was just devastated. In my mind, I'm gonna be state champ

and I just lost first match of the entire season. You know, my entire team knows I've been killing myself. And afterwards like, I thought you were gonna be a state champ, what are you gonna do now? I'm like, ah, you know, and I go to school and everyone's like, you lost? I thought you were gonna be a state champ. And just embarrassing, humiliating, and like, again, I was a failure.

And I'm so lucky because my dad, my dad was awesome. He filmed the match. And then I remember going home that night and I went to bed just like feeling depressed and sad, sorry for myself and everything. And my dad watched it over like all night long my dad slept you know the entire night wake up next morning about to go to school and say

Russell come here he pulls me over the carpet I'm like annoyed they dad and he's like okay this we did wrong your hips wrong it like he's working on these little things right and so we did it in the morning and I was like just annoyed and I go to school kind of depressed and then I go to practice practice is done I see my dad like running down the stairs afterwards and his workout clothes, I'm like, oh, dad, he comes over, all right, let's drill this up. And we spent an hour drilling the positions I lost in. And then that was that first day.

And the next day, practice is done, my dad comes down the stairs, I'm like, oh crap. And we did that every single day for the entire four month season. My dad would show up, we'd drill it, we'd drill it, we'd drill it. And it never was another tournament with that guy until the state tournament.

We show up and going in the tournament, I was seeded first and he was seeded second. So all sides of the bracket. And we're wrestling, we're wrestling. And we get down to, both of us make the finals. And again, I remember right before, an hour before the finals, my dad gets his head gear on, come down,

all right, let's go drill it again. I'm like, dad, like, let's go drill it again. We go out there and this match, and I wrestled this guy who four months earlier beat me and we had the same match and this time I beat him. Win the state title. It's like, you know, one of the greatest moments of my life. And I remember driving home in the car that night

and I had the thought of just like, oh my gosh, like when I lost four months ago, I thought it was a failure. And I was like, no, I'm not a failure. Like we just, we learned like what, like how to, like we learned what I did wrong, the bad positions, and we came back and we drilled it, we fixed it, we fine tuned things, then we come back now and then four months later, we're able to beat him, right?

I think that's what I try to instill in my entrepreneurs, just like, okay, when you're creating a business or a funnel or whatever, throw it out there. And it's funny, even this morning, I had a guy who came in our coaching program, he just created his first webinar, he did it last night, and I tried to warn him ahead of time, I'm like, hey, the first one's gonna fail,

don't stress it out, it's all gonna be cool, don't worry about it warn him ahead of time. I'm like, hey, the first one's going to fail. Don't stress out. It's all going to be cool. Don't worry about it. And today, he messaged me, oh, I had 30 people on. And I went too long, and nobody bought. And you can tell he's got that, like, I failed thing. And so my first message back was like, dude, this is amazing. I'm like, now we know.

We know he went too long. We know exactly what to fix now. But the problem with most entrepreneurs is they don't do the first version version because they're so scared of failing. I think that athletics and sports taught me just like, you lose all the time in sports, right? And it's okay because you go through that process, you learn a bunch and then it's the tweaks and the changes,

the iterations that make things win. Like our business now, we roll out a new offer and we roll out a lot of offers and we roll them out really, really fast. And it's like testing the market, see what happens. And then sometimes it's like, ah, it's not gonna, it's probably not gonna go anywhere. Other times it's like, okay, something's there. It didn't work the way we're supposed to, but now we know.

And then we'll sit there and we'll tweak and we'll change and we'll tweak and we'll change. And our goal anytime we have new offers, like how do we get the spot where we can spend a million dollars a month in ads profitably on this offer? Like that's, that's like a winner for us, right? And so for us, it's like, okay, we did it. And it's like, there's numbers and then tweaking, changing, tweaking, changing until we get to the spot where that's, that's the numbers coming in, you know? And so, I don't know, that's what athletics taught me.

I think for those who haven't been athletes, it's like learning that, like if you fail, you're not a failure. Like if you, if you fail, like failures, like the, the most data you can possibly get, and then, and then that's where the game begins, like now I lost the first match, cool. Now I know how to like, now I have all the info I need to be able to beat him in four months now. Yeah. Failure is a good thing. Fail forward. I mean, look, I get on stages all the time and I'm like now I lost the first match cool now. I know how to like now I have all the info I need to build beat him in four months now. Yeah failures a good thing fail forward

I mean look I get on stages all the time and I'm like I'm the largest failure in this room guaranteed But by the time you are trying to like, you know, ready fire aim you ever heard that? Yeah, it's by the time you're trying to load the gun. I've already missed the target 18 times And I'm hitting the bullseye every time yeah Because I jump right in. And I jump in and I'm like, and everybody goes, dude, that's not gonna work. I'm like, you're right. It's not gonna work. But we're gonna get it to work because it's hard. I'm like, have you ever been to Mexico or a third world country? These kids will come up to you with a blanket or whatever. And they'll say,

Senor, please, my family. And they're five years old and you say no, no, no, no interested, you know, whatever They don't go home to their mom and dad and cry. They are so good with rejection We talked about this in my meeting earlier is like go for no who cares if they say no no Just I got guys I get excited from a no. No is like, okay. Well, why no? So you're used to doing it more online I'm used to doing a more conversation, having a conversation, smiling and saying, listen, I'm here to earn your business one way or another. I want to make your garage door safe, whatever that looks like.

Trevor Burrus I learned to do door-to-door though for my missions, for my church. I spent two years knocking door-to-door selling religion. So I had a glimpse of that for a little while too. So yeah. Aaron Ross No, that makes you stronger. Rejection makes you stronger. Do you think – there's something in my DNA. I've got ADHD. I don't care about failing. I don't care about embarrassing

myself. I'd stop caring about what other people think. To a certain extent, I care a lot about my fiance and my family. But do you think some people are born entrepreneurs? For sure. I think there's – Maybe they're upbringing? what do you think? I would think maybe upbringing, but also like I've got five kids who all came up with the exact same upbringing and I've got one who's entrepreneurial

and four that are not at all. So I think there's definitely something there. There's a book I read a while ago called Driven. I don't know if you've read that book. It talks about there's like a gene. There is a gene. That people actually have that are more driven. Yeah.

And I think somebody can learn to be entrepreneurial, but I definitely think that like there's, some people are born with that as a tendency, and some people aren't, which I think is also really important. I mean, you've got a big company, a lot of people like I can, if I had a whole bunch of me's in the company, like it would be like that.

If you had five of you's, you'd have five competitors. That's what I say. People are like, I wish I whole bunch of me's in the company, like it would be like. If you had five of you's, you'd have five competitors. That's what I say. People are like, I wish I had 10 of me. I'm like, shoot, then I have 10 freaking guys to compete with. Yeah, for sure. So I think, I think definitely people are more entrepreneurial.

But I think also it's like, if someone's got the tendencies and they've gotten the genes and stuff like that, like, yeah, it's just, it's like, how do you spark that and like fuel that flame, that fire? And people who wanna have it that don't, doesn't mean they can't be successful in entrepreneurial business.

I have friends who are not entrepreneurial, but they run big companies because they realize like, I wanna do this, but I'm not the dude who's gonna be risking and throwing my neck out of line and doing, you know, all the kind of things that entrepreneurs have to do. So they align themselves and they partner and they become like the number two and things like that in a company.

Yeah, they're, so They're so Gina Wickman. I'm bringing him up for the second time, but Rocket Fuel. He talks about great integrators. And we need that as an entrepreneur, we need we've got visions all the time is like put them in an order and try to hit deadlines and delegate well. But we need integrators. Walt Disney would never be in a been with without hisators. Walt Disney would never be able, without his brother, he would have never been able to,

he didn't know what was in the account or how to get caterpillars out there to build the, he just envisioned it. He saw what Disney World looked like in Disneyland. And he needed Roy to help him figure it all out. I mean, do you have those people in your company? I would say, yeah. One of my first mentors told me,

he's like, there's two types of people in this world. There's starters and there's finishers. They figure out who you are and surround yourself with the others. And so I'm, I think I'm one of the greatest starters of all time and I've got like 400 finishers. And it's funny cause I just got a new assistant recently and she came in from the outside world

and now she's dealing with me as an entrepreneur and all the people she's connecting me with are entrepreneurs. And she was like, she's like, are all entrepreneurs like this? I'm like, oh yeah, we're all nightmare. We are so good, so good at the vision and the smashing through the walls

to get things to happen, but we're all, it's hard to schedule, it's hard to figure things out. Our brains are all over, you know? And so if it's not for the other people, someone told me it was like, we're like kites, but there's gotta be the integrator on the ground holding the string to make sure that we can fly the wires.

We just go off. That's a really good analogy. I was like, that's how I feel sometimes. It wasn't for all the people around me that are holding the strings. I'd be a wreck. I'd be a nightmare. It's so true, man.

I can't agree more. What I've learned to do is write things down, have systems that get really, really organized people around me. And just the opportunity to delegate, it's so I'm so spoiled that now it's really hard for me to get in and do the work. Like where you're still going and building the funnels is this like, now I think about my who I need to meet. Like who do I need to hire? Who's the best of the best on the planet? And I don't settle anymore. I don't fill seats. Like I could wear any hat in the company right

now. I'm the CMO. I part with five people on my team and I dug in and I'm like, oh my gosh, we're in 25% of the bottom line. And I'm like, we're gonna hit 32 from the things I found. I called every vendor and I said one of four things is gonna happen. Number one, you got to hold us accountable with my VPs. We're gonna jump on a call weekly. and I said one of four things is gonna happen number one You got to hold us accountable with my VPs We're gonna jump on a call weekly and I said our KPIs must be dialed in or we're gonna pull back in these markets and Retrained we train we train retrain number two. You're gonna have some concessions. We're hitting our KPIs You're not you're going to do something for us. Your fees are gonna come down. Whatever that looks like Number three is we're gonna start decreasing our spend with you.

Number four is we're going to leave this relationship. You don't want that because I'll bring you hundreds and hundreds of clients. First and foremost, you're going to hold us accountable. It's mostly on us." And they were like, dude, like what do we do? And I'm like, it's nothing you did wrong. I let this go too far. I'm back in charge of it.

And I said, we're not pointing these fingers. We're pointing these fingers back at ourselves and It's unacceptable. What's going on right now? I'm not happy with my marketing calm and if we need to retrain we need to top grade We're willing to do what it takes and I'm not a pit bull that's trying to talk you down on price and renegotiate I want my vendors to make a lot of money. I believe they need to make a lot of money They need to stay healthy need to you know innovate to make a lot of money. I believe they need to make a lot of money. They need to stay healthy, they need to innovate. But this is what needs to happen and I'm just giving you

guys fair warning that I need you guys holding us accountable. And dude, I've never seen people work harder this last month. They want these reports back. They want everything. They're like pointing things out for us. They're recreating the creatives. And this is remember, it's a garage door company. I'm not doing what you're doing. It's like, I wish I had more e commerce. I mean, I look at Josh, it's insane what you do with Yeah, it's fun because it's, but it's hard. We got 900 people now. And this opportunity and now we're doing a bunch of acquisitions or there's a lot but I'm learning so much. If I didn't do this deal with the P company, I would have never learned how to raise capital. I would have never learned how to use debt to grow with way better results. I would have never learned how to raise capital. I would have never learned how to use debt to grow with way better results. I would have never learned like our ARR was 6%. Now it's a 0.3%

because they were able to point things out that I didn't know. And the guy that told me to do this, he's like, if you learn what these, he goes, you're really good at home service. You probably are like a doctorate. But if you learn what they know, you're going to be invincible because they know things that you'll never understand unless you do this deal. So that's why for me it was very compelling because now I sit there in a room and I extract, I grab a notebook and I fill it up and I go, you got to be kidding me. You went to the Middle East and you raised how much money and what's the return? What's the IRR on that? And they're going through all these things and it's hard with deal flows and they look at deals like this and they need to find founders and they need to find

really good company and I'm just learning so much and it was like eye opening to me. So your digital marketing book trilogy has sold more than half a million copies worldwide. I worked a million now. It's over a million. Yeah, two in three books sold a million copies. And by the way, those are listening, a book doesn't make you any money. At least it didn't my books, but they opened up so many doors. What's your thought on when you write a book, what's the main reasoning behind it?

Is it like a tripwire or whatever? Kind of, but for me it's like, I believe every great movement throughout time started with a book, right? You look at Christ, there's the Bible. You get every like every every movement like leads with that. So it's like the It's like giving people the playbook to understand how to play in your world, right? It's like when we launched click funnels We launched originally and in my mind like funnel software is the greatest thing in the world and nobody understood it Like we're selling that people like I don't understand this like and then I came out with my first book dot-com secrets people read it

like oh That's what you're telling, they had like the initial doctrine or the whatever of the movement, right? They read it and like, okay, I understand like why I need a cell phone. Like I never understood it before. And so that's like, that's what my books are.

So you're right, I don't make money on it, but when someone reads it and they understand it, then they're indoctrinating my way of thinking, they understand the end goal, what they're trying to do. And then they come into our world and they use our software and everything and they know how to use it. Like it gives them all the financial, or the information they need to be successful

with like the actual product. So in any of the businesses I launch nowadays, you usually lead initially with a front end book because it brings people in, indoctrinates them, gets them to understand and believe what you need them to do and then from there you can push them in. And it's funny, if you watched what Tony Robbins, like the books he's rolled out over the last decade,

or like he wrote Money Master the Game, was his first book he'd written in 20 years. But the goal was he had a big fund that he was trying to raise money for, right? So writes the book, teaching the strategies, launches the book, and I don't know the numbers, it's like, I think it's like six or $10 billion on the backside of the book got invested in the fund.

So the book made no money, but it got people to understand his way of thinking, his framework, his ideas, and then connect them with the actual side of the book got invested in the funds. Like the book made no money, but it got people understand his way of thinking, his framework, his ideas, and then connect them with the actual side of the business that was supposed to happen, right? It's also I look at books as like the best way to indoctrinate the right people into your world. And then from there, you can, you know,

plug them into all the stuff that you're selling. Hey guys, hope you're loving today's episode. We're just four weeks away from Freedom 2025. And I gotta tell you something, over a thousand contractors have already locked in their spots. So you've got two options. Option one, keep running against the clock,

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And the hotel block closes soon. So if you want to get ahead of your competitors instead of getting squeezed out, go to freedomevent.com right now and lock in your seat. That's freedomevent.com. All right, back to the episode. You know, I'm friends with Ben Hardy and Dan Sullivan and their books are due very, very well

and that opened the door for Ben. I mean, I don't know how much you've talked to Ben, but he's very reserved as well. Super high IQ. I mean, it's hard for me because he talks. And I'm like trying to grasp it. You're so smart. Yeah, and I'm like, oh my gosh.

But that put 10x is better than 2x and who not how. I think it blew up strategic coach, right? I mean, coach has been around for how many? 50 years. It's been around forever, right? And then, and these frameworks weren't new either, like Dan would teach them forever, and then Ben takes them, turns them into a book,

launches it, and I don't know the numbers on the backside, but blew up strategic coach, yeah. I had Marcus Sheridan come out, and he goes, the title matters so much. And he explained to me, he's friends with all these authors. And he's like, one of the best books, titles of all time, is Tim Ferriss's Four Hour Work Week. Four Hour Work Week, or Buy Back Your Time. It's like these titles. And I said, my next title, and he shot it down, I still think I got to do it. But it's called Pay

Them What They're Worth. But this idea of paying people, people don't know like, man, I got to pay more. But they don't understand equity incentive program. So I love your title, obviously. I mean, you've done very, very well. What's the most powerful lesson that you could remember that your books, like what's the one thing that if you said this book, this is the one major thing that you're going to learn? Oh, so my three books are so dot com secrets teaches sales funnels, expert secrets teaches

how to create a presentation to sell whatever selling and traffic secrets is all about getting traffic to your funnel. So they're all different. I think the most important though is the expert secrets book I love because it's not just like how to sell a product. It's like how do you create an actual movement of people, right? Like there's so many transactional businesses today. And when we launched ClickFunnels, I was like, I don't want this to be a

transactional business. Like I want to create a following and people and like people we can serve over and over and over again, you know what I mean? And so Expert Secrets was like kind of like we had been, ClickFunnels was four or five years old. We had built this amazing thing and it was, you know, people were coming, they were tattooing our logos to their arms, they were showing up to events.

It was just, it created this really insane movement. People were like, how did you do that? And I was like, well, before I created ClickFunnels, I was studying books like The True Believership, how to create mass movements. I was like going to network marketing events to see how in the world are they getting these people, these people that are making $0

and they get 10,000 people in the arena and they're crying about the product. I'm studying how are these businesses and how are they like... Like a cult. Yeah. That was the joke. In fact, the first version of Expert Secrets I talked about, I called it like you got to figure out how to build a cult.

Sure. I played off that. The new version, I took that out because the publisher didn't like all the cult references. But that's what it was. It was like looking at how do people build cults, right? And the whole premise of the book is like, and people think expert seekers, like, oh, how to create a course. I'm like, no, that's not, if you read it, it's like every mass movement throughout time

had three core things. Number one, they all had a charismatic leader. There was somebody in front of them. And what were those people doing? And how do they position themselves? And what were they saying, right? So that was the first element. The second element was like that attractive character was never talking about a present

based thing. They're always talking about a future based cause. And then third thing they all had is when they made an offer to their people, they were always offering what I call a new opportunity versus what most people do in business is they sell improvement. They sell like, we have a better mousetrap. How do you make a better mousetrap and The mass movements never were out how to do something better like you look at you get Christ and Christianity Christ didn't come and say I'm gonna show you guys a better way to do the law of Moses

He was like law Moses is dead. This is the new covenant. This is who I am, right? And so everyone moved Steve Jobs didn't say I we figured out a way to get more songs on a CD Like we need a hundred like he's. He's like CDs are dead. Like boom, it's the iPod. Like it's a new opportunity. And so those are the three things that every mass movement had. And I think when people understand that,

then it's like, okay, now you're shifting from a transactional product based business to like, we're creating, you call it a cult, you're creating a movement, you're creating whatever it is. But that's how you get people to stick with you

and buy from you. And like, and that's how I think you get the most impact on people when you figure out how to craft to craft and create that and so that's genius And I love I love the idea of just studying this stuff like you could tell you studied the tape We always talk about studying the tape like reflection which I was afraid to do a lot of my life I'm like don't look backwards, but when you learn to reflect a little bit And say I could be a little bit

better at this, get 1% better, like the true believer, I'm going to read that. I haven't read that book. Oh, it's really good. You were, you're heavily involved with, is it Dan Kennedy? Yeah. Yeah. He was my first mentor in about his company three years ago. So yeah, that's that's like no BS. He's had a lot of no BS. He's like 40 no BS books. Yeah, I have all I have all your books. I have all of his books. I mean, I'll show you

my books. I got one here, one at the house. But it's like readers are leaders. Yeah, I have all your books. I have all of his books. I mean, I'll show you my books. I got one here, one at the house. But it's like, readers are leaders. Yeah. And taking the time, Jim Quick, I was on a podcast with him recently, blew my mind because I'm like, dude, I must be lazy. But what I've noticed is it's hard to be everything. There's 168 hours in a week, you spend 50 sleeping, 50 working, 10 working out, still have 60 hours left for family. If you watch Netflix, whatever. But I'm like, man, when I find myself reading a ton, I find it so hard to do the five F's, which is family, faith, fitness, future self. I added fun and then finance and then fitness. So there's six actually. So I don't necessarily want to be well rounded. I think there's seasons of life,

but how do you maintain, because I know you're a strong believer, you're a family man, you're excited about business, you're taking care of your fitness, you're learning all the time. How do you find yourself handling those? Yeah, it's a good question. And first off, I do agree with you,

like it's hard to be well-rounded most of the time is impossible, right? Everything great in my life came during times of radical imbalance, right? Like when I was an athlete, I wasn't a 4.0 student and you know, these things like when I decided I wanna be a state champion, I wanna be a national champion, like I, my shift was radically imbalanced.

Like I was like, I do just enough in school to graduate, but I have all my brain power for everything's here. Remember my wife was the same thing. It's like, I wasn't balanced. Like, okay, I'm gonna date her, but I'm also gonna go into school. It was like, power for everything's here. When I met my wife, it was the same thing. It's like, I wasn't balanced. Like, okay, I'm gonna date her, but I'm also gonna go into school. It was like, okay, radical imbalance here. Like, this is important.

This means something like I'm gonna put the time, energy, dedication. You know, when my kids came, it seemed these radical, we launched ClickFunnels. It was radical imbalance for a season. And so there's that part, I think, where it's like, to create something great, there's, you know, maybe some people disagree with me,

but like for me, I'm like, it takes that time of radical imbalance for you to put in the inertia it needs to get off the ground, right? But then you can snap back to something more balanced. And so in the balance times, it's like, okay, now these things, I don't want to lose my marriage. I don't want to lose this. I want to have it all. How do we do all these things? And so for me, it's just very much, it's like, I had to learn how to become very present in the thing that I'm doing right now.

And I think this is where a lot of people is like, they'll be at work, but they're thinking about home or they're at home thinking about work. Where your feet are. Things like that, yeah. And so for me, it's very much like when I go somewhere and I enter into a situation, I'm leaving everything behind. So like literally when I get to my house,

I get driving my garage at night, I come in the door, like I stop for a second for the door, and I'm just like, okay, like Russell Brunson, I'm leaving him here and Russell's coming in the door. Like it's two different people, right? I come in and now I'm husband, I'm a father, this is where I'm at. And if I do need to go back to Russell Brunson mode, like I don't just jump on my computer on my laptop at my house because then it gets all mushy and weird, right? Like I'm leaving and I'm going back to the, like if I need to, because whatever I got to, like I'm leaving and going back into that environment, that identity.

So I have different environments from different people. And then I chunk up my time where I have these things, right? Like I know that for me to hit faith and spirituality, like there's no time during the day. So it's like, I've got to do it in the morning. So if I want to weave that in, it's like I got to get up an hour earlier and that that's when that's going to fit in. Fitness is the same thing, right? And so for me, it's like I got the same hours as everybody earlier and that that's when that's gonna fit in. Fitness is the same thing right and so for me it's like I

got the same hours as everybody else's right but it's like these things are important. I chunk out the time and then my gyms in my backyard so I walk across you know the driveway and I got a wrestling room and gym and everything so it's like when I walk through that doors it's like all right this is this is athlete Russell I'm going back in and then I'm there hundred percent. I think most people just this is the biggest problem is they don't, when they're doing something, they're not doing it. Like we had one of our, my mentors had, he wanted me and my team to do a time study. Kind of annoying, like every five minutes you talk

about what you're doing. And for me, it was like, I got done. I was like, wow, I got a lot done today. And everyone else, my team's like, yeah, I'm only working like an hour a day. I'm like, what? Like I couldn't fathom. And they're like, yeah, like between all the stuff, like I'm only actually getting an hour. And for I'm like, what? Like, I couldn't fathom. And they're like, yeah, like, between all this stuff, I'm only actually getting an hour. And for me, it's like, I was the opposite. I was like, you look at my day, like, it is jam-packed. There's not time. I'm just like.

Yeah, there's no breaks. I mean, the calendar's lit up. Yeah. And so I think that's what a lot of people understand. It's just like, it's like compartmentalizing the environments. And then when you're in there, like, you got to be. And that's how, at least for me, how I get a lot of stuff done.

Now, I 100%, and my lead has talked about, he's built a work day in six hours and he's got three work days to year one. And as much as I love the guy, I think he's so amazing. I'm like, you know what? I don't wanna outwork anybody anymore. I've served my time. I wanna out delegate. I wanna anybody anymore. I've served my time. I want to out delegate.

I want to out delegate. And I want to trust people. But I hold them to the highest standard of what I hold myself to. And I'm like, I'm not being tough on you. I'm way harder on myself. Just understand, everybody that I have interviews way better than I do.

When I'm interviewing you, it's to see if you can deal with a guy like me. Because I might text you on a Sunday. And I might need a meeting. And it's tough for people, because I'm trying to be great at everything, but also I think there is seasons that we talked about. I got three repeat questions, and we'll

jump back into some more. These are what I ask everybody. So what's one game-changing piece of advice you wish you knew in your 20s? This is actually something you mentioned earlier. It's based on one of Ben Hardy's books, but the who, not the how. From the first decade of my business,

I thought I had to be the guy who did everything. So I learned all the skillsets. I learned all the things I needed to be successful. And I would hire people, but it wasn't the same. And it wasn't until one of my now business partners, Todd Dickerson, he was an employee of mine working on stuff. And then when we had the idea for ClickFunnels, he was like, I want to do this with you,

but I don't want to do it as an employee. I want to do it as your partner. And I was like, but I'm the guy. Like, I do everything. I had never had a partner. Like, no, this is like. And it was funny because he lives in Atlanta. I live in Boise.

He was up in Boise for a week as we were planning the next thing we were gonna create, you know, and we figured, we had the idea for ClickFunnels. We mapped it out. And I'm driving back to the airport. That's when he tells me, he's just like, I don't wanna do this as your employee, I wanna do it as your partner.

And it was all the, you know, I'm literally dropping off the airport, stay by to him, and it's just like, what do I say, what do I say? And in that moment, I, like literally, it was the second best decision of my life outside of marrying my wife was like saying yes to him.

And I was like, oh my gosh, I realized now, like seeing now a decade later, what we really create because he had ownership, because he was, you know, all that stuff. It's like, I wish I would have understood that faster. Like you said, in your business you have five corporate, whatever that is, like looking at businesses, like that's step number one now for me is like who's the dream team we're assembling

to be able to do the thing. And being okay, giving away a lot of what we're doing as opposed to trying to keep it hoarded all myself. Yeah. You know? Richard Branson does a great job because me and you had to hire bottom up. We had to take the trash out, clean

the toilets. We were everything. I had to do inventory, I had to do payroll, which I can't stand. I used to have to do accounting and accounts receivable and I hated it. And all of a sudden I figured out what if you hired top down? You got the best of the best. And they'll build the company for you, but they got to have a stake in the outcome too. And if you can't afford them, and that's the thing people like, well, I can't afford someone. I'm like, the key is like you, if you're someone who's a visionary, you cast the vision, and the people come, you know, like, I have an idea working right now, like I'm in the process casting a vision, I'm going to go show a bunch of people and like, I'll get the best people in the

world to come part of it because like they see the vision, right? You think about it. You got a track record. Yeah. But I think the right people are looking like, I mean, I look at Todd, like Todd was making a ton of money on the side, his own online businesses, like, just because he's a genius, right? Like, he came and worked for free for me for over a year because, like, he saw a vision, he saw, you know, I think that's what, if you can cast a vision, you can get the right people, even if you can't afford them at the time. And there's the EIP equity incentive program, Phantom Stock, that if you've got a plan to exit it only works if they see the vision

to where it's what's in it for them and this idea of always thinking if I were this is EQ this is like saying what are your dreams what do you want and sometimes it's not money sometimes it's financial free financial freedom is money but sometimes it's some of the guys I'm like that the walk into the training center I'll show you next door is they're like I could just tell they're not they don't feel good about themselves you know they're overweight or their teeth need to fix and if that's their goal or just time with family it's my job to kind of reverse engineer that for them yeah I get them what they want and not everybody's created the equal but if you really look and say look I'm

here to you could have anything you want in life if you just help enough people get what they want. And that's zig-zag. It's so true. What millionaire habit sets you apart from the rest of us? Obviously, you've got a really good schedule. You go all in on what you're doing. I've learned a lot. But is there anything outside of the norm

that you think is just a really good tactic. I think for me it's like it's Obsession in a thing right like I am NOT it's fair. I always joke my wife like I'm really good at two things and that's it and I think I Go really really deep on again funnels like there's no one else on this planet's gone deeper than me on that. I know that better than anybody in the world. And I'm not gonna most everything else in my business and other things, like I'm really bad at the other things, but I think for most people,

it's like they're trying to become super good at all the things. It's just like when I started hiring people and I started, and it wasn't me juggling all the things or hiring people, and I had this really cool spot where like where do I want to spend my time? And I was like, well this. And everyone's like, well I thought you were the CEO of your company.

I'm like, yeah but like, just cause that's like the title, like I want to be building funnels. And so we built a company around where it's like, I can still be like the thing, but like my day job is in the part that like, I'm obsessed with like, I wake up every morning, I get to think about it and talk about it

and figure things out and we're creating new things. And like, it gives me the energy and I think It's the obsession so you can focus on the thing that gives you the most energy, you know, what's your ability? Yeah, that's You know, that's so powerful because I walk at people like why do you work so much? I'm like, I've never go to work. Yeah, are you kidding me? I had the best day Yeah, I mean look I'm doing a podcast now with you. It's phenomenal. Like, this doesn't work.

I'm curious because I want to talk a little bit about sales funnels, but I'm a home service, home improvement guy. So I don't know if you could relate to that. But obviously, you know, there's this idea of building a thought in people's mind to remember who you are and let them get to know you. The Wizard of Ads, Roy Williams, talks about this a lot. He's like, it needs to be relational. So I talk a lot about my mom worked three jobs when I was a kid. Let them know who I am. There's got to be a figure at the top.

But then there's got to be offers. And the offers, it's very hard to differentiate yourself when you've got two Valpat coupons out. So if you had to think about it more of a home improvement home service, because by the way, we're essential through COVID. By the way, nobody's telling their kid to be a programmer now, because AI is taking it over. They're like, go into the trades. Now this Harvard money that Trump's talking about, he's like, let's put 3 billion into trades, take it from Harvard. It's a thing. So I'm just curious. I don't know if your mind's ever gotten into this, because it's not what you do day to day. But if you had to think about, you'd

probably want to use more software based, because you get way more analytics and attribution from like Meta. And so it's a little bit harder. But I've got 6,500 call tracking numbers. I've got tons of different ways to book through schedule links, which I've got perfect attribution. It's hard to do radio, TV, billboard stuff.

But what would you do if you were to create, how would you think about offers and click funnels in a way that it applies to a conventional business like this? Yeah, that's really cool. Do you do Valpacs, all that kind of stuff? I do Valpac, ClipBurst, Aroro, Goldpac, Clipper, Ceroro Gold, like all of it. I thought those were, I forgot about those and last week my wife had one and she's going through and she's pulling out all these things and I was like, oh interesting.

Like I know that was still a media source. Anyway, it's really fascinating. So for me it's always like, again I come from the Dan Kennedy world, which is I think one of my unique things is that I started as an internet marketer. I joined his world and he's teaching about fax machines and direct mail and like- And affluent clients, how to market to the affluent. Yeah, all these things that I was like, and at first I was like, this guy's crazy.

This doesn't apply to me. And then later I was like, oh my gosh, like media is just media. Like that was the big ah-ha I got from Dan was just like, I kept thinking that the internet was a business and it's not, it's a media source, right? So you look at that, it's like, okay, all media, and then all media at the right price works, right?

So it's like, if you can make the numbers work in Valpac or classified at whatever. So we test and try, I love offline as well, you know what I mean? But then the goal for me is always like, okay, my initial marketing messages, you know one of the frameworks I teach all the time is hook story offer.

I'm throwing out a hook to grab their attention so I can just long enough I can like tell them a story and the goal of the story is to increase the perceived value of the offer, right? So on social media, it's easy to make sense. Like ever scrolling, like I'm trying to do something to grab them to stop the scroll, like hook, and then have a spot to tell them a story long enough that I can increase the perceived value of the thing I'm gonna sell. But the same thing would be true if I was doing in Valpacs or if I was doing classified

ads or radio or anything, it's the same thing. Like hook and then the hook, goal to hook is to get them long enough I can tell them a story and then make them an offer right and so I would be trying to figure out how do I take them from these from legacy media to a spot where I can control the environment right I think about all the time like especially in the internet world like people have their their controlled environment they they control the thing like they're on their phone they're on the computer like they have these these controlled environments where they're in charge and for me to have the ability to persuade and influence I need to move them out of those environments to a thing where I control the environment, right?

Because the environment is like half of the game. So it's like, I'm pulling somebody from their computer to a webinar, to a three day challenge, to a live event, to a like, so I'd be trying to get somebody from that, whatever that is, to a spot where I can talk to them long form, right? Because Valpac, you've got headline, a couple of bullet points in CTA.

How do I pull them from there to a spot where I can go long form with them? Because the more time someone spends in a seat with you, the more likely they are to buy, the more they'll be willing to buy, higher prices they'll pay. And then if I control the environment, it's way better. So for example, like we do,

in my world I have a three day event we do once a month, and it's eight hours a day, and people are like, I can't dedicate three days. And I'm like, you know, so we convince them they do, but then after they sign up, the first thing is like, we drill them, like do not watch this at your house, at your computer. Like most people are like sitting on their computer

and then they got Facebook and Skype and Slack and doing their kit, you know. I was like, you need to get Airbnb. Like this is an event you were leaving, go get an Airbnb, some were separate, so you're moving. So I'm trying to get them out of the environment they're comfortable so it's an environment I can actually control, right?

So we move them. I love that. Now we have a different environment they're comfortable. So it's an environment I can actually control, right? So we move them. I love that. Now we have a different environment. Now sales percentages, conversions, everything shifts because now I can. It's the reason why we do live events, right? If I can get somebody to book a hotel in Orlando and bring 5,000 people in the room, my conversion will be 100 more than if they're 100x more versus them sitting at home on their own computer where they control the environment.

And that's the reason why we're shifting environments so we can control the conversation, the narrative, the social proof, all those kind of things. And so for me, that's what I'd be thinking about. It's just like, how do I get people from these legacy media to a spot where I control the environment so now I can tell your story? You have more long form, you have all the things you need to be able to persuade and influence.

What have you learned about these things as far as the environment when you bring them in? I know Tony Robbins does an amazing job of like literally – like you're buying that at the end. You're changing your life. Like I love the guy with the red shoes, how he's able to change the perspective. You know what I'm talking about. But like – you know, I know casinos pump oxygen in the air.

They do certain things to make you want to stay. They make it really like you don't know If it's night or day, but is there anything you found to make? Real events I love the Airbnb idea, but as far as bringing them in Is this seating a certain way is there certain things you is it roundtable is it regular like what? What is the best advice you have about events? Yes, we do we do big We've done ten years or was there last year actually our final hockey live event We get five thousand people in a room.

And there's a lot of it, I mean, from like the ambiance, the room, the colors, the like all that kind of thing. But I think one of the biggest things that we learned the first couple of years we did events, we were very tactical, like let's just teach tactic, because we're marketing nerds. And so like, it was very much that.

And then I remember, I think the second or third year, I had a couple of friends who were not marketing people, but they were using click phones, but they were my personal development people, and they were my friends, and so I was like, oh, you should come and speak. And it was crazy, because they would come, and they would do the personal development things,

which didn't, in my mind at first, I'm like, this is, what does that have to do with, it's all fluffy, and like, I hate this. It was crazy that after that event, people started messaging me, and they were like, I came for one thing, I got something else. I thought I was coming for marketing, I got that, but I left change.

I was like, oh my gosh, that's the magic sauce, right? I remember Frank Kern told me this one time, he's like, at the time he had a $400 a month membership site and he was testing to try to get people to stick longer. He's like, I tested like 500 things. He's like, you know what's crazy? He's like, only one thing actually moved the needle.

I was like, what was the thing? And he's like, you know what's crazy? He's like, only one thing actually moved the needle. I was like, you know, I'm like, what was the thing? And he's like, I made module number one, a personal development module. And he's like, no one wants to buy personal development, but like I kind of forced, I kind of sneak attacked him on it and they went through his personal development. And he's like, and then I shifted their beliefs and then they stuck longer.

And I was like, oh my gosh, that's the secret. And so our third event we did, I was building my relationship with Tony Robbins at the time and I asked him the same question. I was like, I my gosh, that's the secret. And so our third event we did, I was building my relationship with Tony Robbins at the time and I asked him the same question. I was like, I'm doing these events. I'm teaching people the exact same thing, same framework, same everything. I was like, I can't figure out why like most,

like the percentage of having success, most of them aren't. And he kind of laughed. He's like, oh, it's because you still think that success is from the tactics, right? I'm like, yeah, we've got the best tactics in the world. He's like, you don't understand. Success is like 10% tactics, it's 90% psychology. He's like, what's happening in their head is what gets them from being successful.

And so he came to the next event, he did like a Tony Robbins like five hour, like, you know, fix their brains and like get people like fixing the psychology. And it unlocked people then to actually have success. And you look at like, you know, in our industry, we have the most success stories of anybody. We've got 3,000 plus people that have won our two comic club award. We've got, you know, in our industry, we have the most success stories of anybody. We've got 3000 plus people that have won our two comic club award. We've got, you know, it's just like the numbers are crazy, but it came on the backside of like, okay,

we're teaching the tactics that are coming forward, but we're spending time interweaved throughout on the psychology. And when we started weaving those two things together, and people don't know what they're coming for, but then that's what they leave. Like, I feel like I'm different. Like, this is not what I thought you know

I mean, that's my first event. I got a great buddy of mine He's doing 150 million and plumbing in Ohio, and he goes on stage, and I love the guy, but he's super unpolished He's not a speaker. This is his first time. He's nervous as hell. He threw up in the back and He's got this story about his son holding his son chase up They were living on his his sister's couch and his son was sleeping on the couch. He's kind of emotional thinking about it. But he told this story and he's not a perfect speaker and he held his son up and said, this is not the life we're going to live.

And I mean I get teary-eyed thinking about it just because Chase just graduated. He's going to a master's degree. Dad covered the cause but he doesn't – like that's the deal with the mom. They're still good friends. He says, I'm going to take care of us but I can't pay you much right now. They never got married. It was just a high school. Everybody in that room was changed by that story of like we're going to work no matter

what. He went bankrupt twice, failed. And I'm like, everybody pull out your phone to look at your Google My Business page. You know, I'm like teaching tech. I'm like, this stuff will work. I promise you. This is going to change your life.

Get a review on every job with a picture in it. And I'm going to. It's still stuff I do. I'm super tactical. And because I'm like, man, I listen to some of the book. Do you believe in yourself? And like, you look in the mirror, and I'm like, man, I listen to some of the, do you believe in yourself? And like, you look in the mirror and I'm like, ah. And so I started doing those things.

And it makes a lot of sense. I just learned something super important. Because I always invite those people that'll talk about being happy with yourself. And I tell the story about, like my cousin called me up. And she's got a doctorate in like physiology. She goes, you know how happy we are Tommy with you, the whole family? Like you've done so well and you're the biggest reader.

Your podcast is amazing. We all follow. We call you for advice. But she goes, why don't you love yourself? And I'm like, what are you talking about Rachel? And she goes, go in the mirror right now and take off your shirt. She goes, you're probably drinking too much. I can tell by your skin.

She goes, are you happy with the way you look? She's like, and I'm like, she's like, really look. And I'm like, I'm busy. Like, dude, I was 28% body fat. And that's the worst I'd ever got. And dude, that instant snap me out of it. And I look at people and I'm like, you know, there's no excuse. I'm like, if you're not happy with yourself, if you're content, but we always make these

excuses and I just, I was done with it. I'm done with the excuses. And I just, I love telling stories and that's where I wanted to ask you, is the best storyteller's when? I mean, I remember stories so well if someone's on stage and they tell me a great story so I started really talking about stories like I just listened to this the other day when you should start out any speech you should start out with once upon a time and can you imagine

you're 20 years old think about when you were 20 years old and like you tell this story and you have people the best comedians in the world They have you think about the situation like you're at the airport How many people ever flowers flows fly Southwest and all of a sudden you're like you're in that moment Yeah And if you could put you if you could have people put themselves in your shoes and really apply it to their own life So with storytelling, how do you even craft that story and message? Yeah

so this is like my big three events that we literally would talk about because we talk about one to many selling and or sub, we call it subconscious selling because when you're selling to the masses, especially online stuff like that, it's different than one-on-one, right? One-on-one, you have the opportunity like ask some questions, get feedback, resolve their concerns, but you're speaking like one to many, you don't have that ability. So what we do when we're crafting a presentation, if it's a webinar or challenge or a video set, whatever it is, right? The question I'm asking myself is like, what's the false belief they have inside their mind?

And the false belief is a subconscious belief, right? And subconscious speaks in stories. So it's like they have a story, right? So as soon as you tell them something, a story pops up in their head that's either positive or negative, that's like controlling whether they're going to listen to what you're saying, what they're going to buy, they're not going to buy. Like that story just magically pops up as soon as you start saying something, right?

And so if I know that, it's like, okay, I'm trying to get this person to buy something, I'm trying to get them to change, whatever. No matter what I say, as soon as I start saying it, their subconscious is gonna pop up a story about what they already believe. If that subconscious story's against me, I'm gonna lose. So when I'm building a story,

it's not just a story to tell a story, it's like, okay, what's the story that I have, the reason why I believe this thing and if I can tell the story in a more compelling way And I can convince them that my story trumps their story The subconscious mind will literally take my story and replace their story with it. That's what I'm trying to do That's like when I'm in an event in front of 5,000 people trying to sell something. That's all I'm doing It's like a so I had a little map out Here's the false beliefs they have if I talk If I'm trying to get them to do this or whatever the thing is, what are the false beliefs?

And I'm like, why do I not have that false belief? And it's like, oh, because this is what happened to me. I'm like, okay, that's the story I'm telling. So I'm telling this story and if I do it correctly, it's gonna literally take the false belief that they have, it's holding them back in line. It deletes it, replaces it with mine and now they have a new story.

So a good example, this is like a cheesy example, but I always joke with like network marketers, right? Like most people have like either positive or very negative experience in network marketing, right? And so I think about this like, if I came up to you or somebody and I'm like, hey, I wanna join my new network marketing program, instant there's a story like, oh, like, I'm gonna, you know,

everyone's got a story. You sell your friends and family. Yeah, and there's your story, so we got it. So there's a story, now the question is like I'm gonna, you know, everyone's got a story. You sell your friends and family. Yeah, and there's your story, so we got it. So there's a story, now, the question is like, why do you believe there's one or two reasons why you believe that? One is either you tried it, you had to sell your friends and family, it sucked,

or your friends and family called you and it was really annoying. So like, that's the story you have. So if I wanna be, if I'm a network marketer and I wanna convince you, if I, no matter how hard I try to get you like, no, you know, that story's there and I'm never gonna beat it. So I have to tell a better story.

So man, 15 years ago, I joined a network marketing company because someone got me into it and I was like, I'm not gonna do this. I don't wanna talk to my friends or my family like that. I'm introverted, like I'm not gonna call my friends. And my friend was like, no, the coolest thing you can do this on the internet. All you do is you set up a landing page and you say some information about it and then you drive traffic to it and then people who are interested will fill out the form and you just call the people who literally raised their hands and said yes

send me more information. And I was like so I don't talk to my friends, you only talk to people who asked you to call them that's it. And so I was like alright let's try it out. So I set up the form, drive some emails to it, I would drive some traffic to it, people fill out the form. I don't even want to talk to people so on the next page I'm gonna have a video of me just like pitching it and I have a link down below to sign up. I started doing that. And in three months, I became the number one money earner of the company, never talked to a single human being

and I won a Ferrari. Here's a picture of me on my Ferrari. So I tell that story and all of a sudden you're like, oh wait, you mean I could get the money from that? We're not talking to friends? And all of a sudden that false belief you've had all of a sudden is like trumped and all of a sudden you're like, well I could do it Russell's way

and then all of a sudden I could do that, right had all of a sudden is like trumped. And all of a sudden, you're like, well, I could do it Russell's way. And then all of a sudden, I could do that, right? Now they have a new belief, new story. I love that. And now I own it. And so for me, it's like, what are the false beliefs? What are the story I have I can tell that replaces their false belief with the true belief that's empowering? That's the game.

So this is genius. Walk me through. I'm a big white border, like big, big, big. So the first thing I write down on the whiteboard is, do you write the end goal? So part, but my goal is to sell this and you reverse it? Like if you were to just whiteboard with me. Yeah.

Great question. So how would you start this? I would start with, okay, so what's the result we're trying to get somebody, right? So to buy my thing, this is the result. And then second thing is like, what are all the other things that people are selling to try to get that result?

Like all the other potential options, right? So that's the first thing I was looking at. And then I'm trying to convince them that my, like my, the thing that I offer, excuse me, the map that I have to this result is, so for example, like people in my world come to me because they wanna make more money on the internet, right? So it's like, there's a lot of ways to make money

on the internet. You can sell stuff on eBay, you could do, you know, like whatever. And I'm trying to convince you that funnels is the best way, right? So like there's a lot of ways to make money on the internet. You can sell stuff on eBay. You could do, you know, like whatever. And I'm trying to convince you the funnels are the best way, right? So like that's my version. So like funnels are the greatest way. So my entire presentation has got to be designed in a way to get them to believe at the end of like of all the ways I could try to get that result,

this is the best one, right? If they do that, then they're going to give me money. That's it. So then I break it down into like there's basically three core groups. There's three core false beliefs that somebody will have when you're making a presentation. The first false belief is their false belief about is that vehicle the right vehicle

that's gonna get them the result? Second false belief is like, if I believe that's the right vehicle, like what's the internal false belief? I think the funnels are great, but I don't know if I could actually, I'm not technically, like whatever the internal false beliefs. And then third false beliefs,

if someone believes first off, I do believe that's right vehicle. I believe I could do it, but then their brain's looking for some escape route. So it's using external false, but I don't know how to do that. Or I can't do it because of some external reason, right? So I always say there's like the vehicle false belief,

the internal false belief, and then the external. So those are the three categories. And inside there, okay, what are all the false beliefs they have about funnels, right? If I'm gonna be bringing funnels, okay. So start thinking through that. And then I'm listing out what are the three categories. And inside there, I'm like, okay, what are all the false beliefs they have about funnels, right? If I'm in bringing funnels, okay. So start thinking through that, and then I'm listing out what are the stories I have that break these false beliefs.

Okay, now number two, like if I get in and believe that, what's the internal false beliefs? They're not technical, they don't know how to do it, they're running out of time, okay. What are the stories I have that'll fix that? Or list out those three or four stories. And then external, who are they gonna blame? What's the external, you know, what are the stories?

And so that's my presentation. Then it's all stories, pretty much. That's genius. So, you know, Jeremy Miner always says, by the way, he closes a large percentage of the room, but I think he does very well of getting the right people in the room. I think Tony Robbins does the same thing.

I think you do the same thing, is the 80-20 rule. And a lot of people are afraid one of the things My my old coo really great friend of mine. We're still very close. He did very well on the first accent He's like dude. You're giving away all of our frickin secrets, man He's like we've worked so hard and I go but nobody's I'll tell you how to get a six-pack Why don't you have a six-pack? Like you know how to get a six-pack calorie deficit't you have a six pack? Like you know how to get a six pack. Calorie deficit, watch your macros, burn more calories and you know,

within six months you'll have a six pack. What are your thoughts about just giving it all away? But obviously you charge people to do it for them. Like it's a done for you package. What's your like thought process around that? Yeah, I give it all away. So what my belief is that people will spend more money for the same information packaged in different ways.

So like I give all my stuff, all my stuff I'll give away for free on my podcast, it's awesome. If someone wants to buy it in a book, I have a book format, it's 10 bucks for the book, like same information packaged in a different way. Then someone wants to come to a live event, same info, like I'm teaching what's in the book,

it's a thousand dollar version, right? They want to do my coaching program, there's a 25,000 dollar version, it's facilitated differently than a $50,000, 150 and a 250,000. But the thing I'm teaching is the same frameworks I'm teaching at every single level, it's just packaged in a different way.

So if you want to watch it on a podcast, cool. If you want to read in a book, cool. You want to come and work with me in my office and we're going, figuring out, but it's all the same. Like yeah, all my stuff you can get for free or you can pay. And yeah, I'm a big believer in that. Just people will wanna consume it different ways

and they're willing to invest and they want proximity and proximity is, you know, that's what people pay more and more money for. Well, I go see a trainer and I don't need to. I used to be a trainer. And I just like it cause I'll get a spotter and I'll get an extra set and I'll do stuff I don't wanna do.

Like I know how to train people. I know how to push myself, but it's still, there's not a workout I can think of that wasn't better with my trainer. Because he's like, dude, turn it up. And he knows how hard, but the best trainers in the world know exactly how hard to push you to where you're not going to stop. Because some people just think I'm going to break this dude. If Russell walks in, he's not going to be able to walk for two weeks. That's not how you should be a great coach. It's like try to break people.

So there's this happy thing. Everybody needs a different prescription. All right, so this is the biggest thing on my mind is the future. AI is here. It's not going anywhere. It's actually going to start compounding. I think within two years, it'll start writing its own code better than anybody

and it'll help shape the future. I mean, there's that video out there of if AI was gonna take over the world, how would it do it? It's like, we'd put it in your pocket, we'd write all your songs, we'd give you all the information and you'd ask for more. We'd even put chips in you.

Not the Mark of the Dev beast and all that, but if you could regulate your blood and it wasn't like, but what do you think? I mean, it's such an Omni thing now, like people are like, well, you got to be on Pinterest. Are you on house? Are you on instant Tik Tok? Tell me you're on LinkedIn. Are you still doing it? And it's like that reddits the new big thing. And it's like, okay, like now there's AI and now there's chat to beabi-tique, rockin', Gemini, and we can keep going. But what do you think the next five years look like?

It's exciting and scary. I think, I'm nervous for, I mean, you said half an hour ago about programmers. It's like, in two years from now, I'll be saying, I want eBay. And it'll code eBay. I want ClickFunnels. It'll build ClickFunnels. So if me as a software guy, I'm like, OK, that's scary, right?

I think a lot of jobs, it's like people aren't going to need lawyers or accountants or those kind of jobs. Because I can have. Or realtors or any, yeah. Yeah, like all those things start. So it's scary for people who aren't used to change and stuff. It's exciting for those who are just like, oh my gosh, this is a change, right?

So for me, it's like the place in my mind that's going, where's the opportunity? The opportunity is in creating and building things that have network effect, right? So for example, like if every single person on the planet like asked Chad's DBT to build them eBay, there's gonna be that 10,000 Ebays, but people are still gonna go and list their stuff on eBay Why eBay's got a hundred million people they log in as a phone? Yeah, that's the that's the it's the network effect like it's that so it's like knowing that it's like the thing that's gonna be most valuable in the future is People like us gathering people the network like the gather communities its personality its connection

it's and the people who figure that out are the ones who are gonna win, the people who don't are the ones who are gonna lose because information will become, is gonna become a commodity. Like right now, I can ask you about GBT, any topic I want and it builds me a custom course on the fly and then I can upload another GBT

and it'll read it to me and it's a podcast. It's not great yet, but it's about to be. Oh yeah, it's insane. So like I can get a custom course saying this, why do people buy information? Well, they're buying it because in five years, no, they're buying it because they connect with you as a human, they like, they'll trust you.

And number two, you've got a cool community they wanna be around, like the network. Like that's, and so for everyone, it's like if you're building something right now, realizing the info is gonna be less valuable, software is gonna be less valuable, brand, personality, community, network effect is going to be the most valuable.

So it's like building stuff in that, through that lens is where things are going. Yeah, no, it's interesting. I really like that perspective. It's excellent advice, the best I've heard yet. Give me one book that you didn't write or two or three that are game changers that are like, dude, this will change your life. Obviously, the Bible's important. We all know, like, the emith revisited.

He's been in here before. Oh, yeah. But, like, is there anything that's not, like, mainstream that you are, like, game changer? Oh, man. I love books. I have about 18,000 books in the last three years, all first editions, manuscripts. Like, I collect rare books.

Yeah, I know that. Yeah. I'm a little bit of a nerd that way. So, Elsie Lincoln Benedict. most people know who she is. We're actually republishing her book right now Hopefully out of next month or so, but she wrote a book set as a little book. She was she lived in 1920s She was speaking in arenas full of women She spoke over three million women in like a couple year period time but she's filling reams back in the 20s and she would teach personal development and women. She spoke over 3 million women in like a couple year period of time.

But she's filling reams back in the 20s and she would teach personal development and she would she would teach different courses and then she'd she'd sell. She'd sell. She'd speak a big room, sell an event. I mean, just like all of us do nowadays. She was doing it in the 20s and she had an event she did called How to Get Anything You Want. And then she made a book series based on that. It was these little tiny books. And I found a rare first edition copy. It's been out of print for forever and so we're bringing it back and that's probably the most fascinating, coolest book I've found of all these books that I read.

I want to buy one of the first copies. I'll send you a copy because if you read it, it'll, it's insane that she wrote this in the 1920s. Like it's, anyway, so that's, in fact, Napoleon Hill in his, in Deacon- Napoleon Hill and Del Carnegie, same era, yeah. I think in Deacon-Gorish, Napoleon Hill talks about this. He's like, there's this woman, she's filling up stadiums.

He's talking about her. He was like watching, so he's like, how is she doing this? And no one's ever heard of her today. So she, like that book's insane. And then my favorite Napoleon Hill book, he's my favorite author, Outwitting the Devil is insane.

I am obsessed with that. I actually got the manuscript from that book from the foundation, so I had chance to read the original pages from his typewriter. I love it, man. It's so much fun. Last thing I always do is we talked about a million things. I've got so many notes, so many things to implement.

Maybe there's something we didn't talk about. Maybe there's, oh well, first and foremost, I gotta let people know what's the easiest, best way to get a hold of you and what's coming up that people should get involved in. Oh yeah. I mean, you can follow me socially if you search for Russell Brunson on all the places. But in my YouTube channels, I actually each week I'm bringing in my old rare books. Like I spent 1.5 million for this book. Let me tell you the story. So like that's if you get into old books and stuff to my YouTube channel. But the best thing we do is I do an event about once a month called Selling Online,

where we teach people this, like the mass persuasion, how do you sell one to many, how do you move people? And so it's a hundred bucks. It's a three day event on sellingonline.com. It's the cheapest thing we do. And it's probably the best thing we do. So if someone wants to plug in my world, that's the best place to go.

Cause you'll get indoctrinated on how to, how to sell, not like, you know, like I, as Jerry Meyer yesterday, that's the best place to go, because you'll get indoctrinated on how to sell. Not like, you know, like as Jerry Meyer yesterday, he's all one-on-one sales. Like this is not one-on-one sales, this is one to many sales. How do you craft presentations and a way to persuade masses and get them to buy from you?

And it's really fun. I love it. I love that too. I'll definitely go through it. The trick with me is get it on the schedule, like today. So it's like like get the timeline. People are like we'll get to that and it goes somewhere to die under their pillow.

So what do we talk about? Anything you want the audience to hear that we didn't talk about, final thoughts? I think for most people it's just, most people in the world are dabbling, they're not obsessed. I think a lot of times it's looked down upon like oh this guy's obsessed with what you know. I think if lot of times it's looked down upon like, oh, this guy's obsessed with what you

know. And I think if people find the thing they're passionate about and then just put on blinders and just become obsessed, become the greatest in the world at that thing, that's where... I mean, look what you do. Like garage doors. In infinity years, if someone came to me, like, this is what I'm going to be building. It makes no sense. And look what you built.

It's a session that's deeper. And I think if people will be willing to let themselves do that, because I think culture is a stigma about it. That person's obsessed. It's like a negative thing. It's like, no, the greatest things happen to people that are obsessed. Pick something you love and just become obsessed. Become the best in the world at.

I tell my kids this time, I don't care what you do, but whatever you do, try to be the best at that thing and read the book, study it. Get to the spot where you understand it deeper than anyone else. And if you do like, you know, it'll take care of it. I mean, the thing that I became obsessed with was 20 years ago, no one knew what a cell phone was. Like it was the dorkiest thing, but for some reason, like I just like, this is the thing.

It got me so excited and I just went down the rabbit hole. Potato guns. And then 20 years later, it's like, we built an industry based on this thing that nobody even knew before. We built, you know, click phones, we've done over a billion dollars in sales on our platform ourselves. Our clients have done like, I think, 14, 15 billion in sales on the platform.

It's just like, because I was obsessed with this nerdy thing that no one cared about, like be obsessed and be okay with it and become the best in the world at what you're doing. You know, last thing I'll say is a good buddy of mine, I've worked with him for a long time. He's just the greatest human being. I love the guy, Jody Underhill. He's like, I'll tell you a good buddy of mine, I've worked with him for a long time. He's just the greatest human being. I love the guy, Jody Underhill. He's like, I'll tell you. I've seen him forever. He's like, Russell is a genius.

He's like, when we worked under him, we didn't know what it was gonna become. Like, he's just persistent, he's obsessed, and he had the greatest things to say. So he's a great human being, and I love them and their family. Yeah. So Vanessa, the whole family is amazing. So I appreciate you being here, brother. That means a lot to me. I'm glad you made it out and anything I could ever do for you, you let me know.

And hopefully the audience took a ton from this. I'm going to get this on the Home Service Expert Podcast as well. And I hope you have a great day and a great week. Thank you. All right, that's a wrap. Hey there, thanks for tuning into the podcast today. Before I let you go, I wanna let everybody know that Elevate is out and ready to buy. I can share with you how I attracted a winning team of over 700 employees in over 20 states. The insights in this book are powerful

and can be applied to any business or organization. It's a real game changer for anyone looking to build and develop a high performing team, like over here at A1 Garage Door Service. So if you wanna learn the secrets that help me transfer my team from stealing the toilet paper to a group of 700 plus employees rowing in the same direction,

head over to elevateandwin.com forward slash podcast and grab a copy of the book. Thanks again for listening and we'll catch up with you next time on the podcast.