The Home Service Expert Podcast - Mastering Business Growth Strategies that Attract More Leads and Land Big Clients

Episode Date: March 5, 2021

Eric Siu is the CEO of both the content intelligence software ClickFlow and the digital marketing agency Single Grain. He has worked with major clients such as Amazon, Airbnb, Salesforce and Uber to acquire more customers. He also hosts two podcasts with more than 30 million combined downloads to date: Marketing School with Neil Patel and Leveling Up. In this episode, we talked about digital marketing, marketing consulting, advertising, search engine marketing...

The great thing about talking about SEO is SEO forces you into a long-term mindset. When you're running paid ads, it's like you're getting hits, right? And the moment you start, you turn it off, the party stops, right? You're really reliant on Facebook and Google. And 45% of venture capital money raised goes directly to those platforms, which is nuts. So you understand SEO first. You understand how to think long-term. Again, I pulled up this Pokemon card for a reason.

It's because I paid two grand for this thing because I think it's going to appreciate over time, but I also don't mind sitting there and waiting. And I think in my early days, I used to always think about, okay, everyone else is so far ahead of me. How do I get these results yesterday? But the older I get, the more I realize, the more I think in decades, the better, right? Because the long-term, I'm patient. Short-term, I have urgency. But I operate a lot smoother now.

And I don't try to do everything at once, right? I don't try to do this business over here, senior living business over here. And I'm going to try to start up this website over here, right? So I think it really grounds you. And so my point of saying all this is that there's a lot of marketing tactics that Tommy and I can talk about on here, but it's not about the tactics. It's about the strategy, and it's about what you want long-term. Welcome to the Home Service Expert, where each week, Tommy chats with world-class entrepreneurs and experts in various fields like marketing,

sales, hiring, and leadership to find out what's really behind their success in business. Now, your host, the home service millionaire, Tommy Mello. Welcome back to the Home Service Expert. You guys know me. My name is Tommy Mello. Today, I have a special guest who's the king of marketing and digital ads that's visiting with us. I got us all lined up here. Let me go over a little bit about who you are, Eric. He's an expert in digital marketing, search engine optimization, marketing, consulting, advertising, search engine marketing, social media marketing, based out of Los Angeles, California, ClickFlow, CEO from 2018 to present. Single grain LLC chairman from 2019 to present.

Growth Everywhere was the founder from 2013 to present. And Treehouse Island Inc., user growth lead, head of marketing from 2012 to 2013. Eric is the CEO of content intelligence software, ClickFlow, a suite of SEO tools designed to increase organic rankings as well qualified traffic for websites he's also owns an ad agency called single grain and has worked with companies such as amazon airbnb salesforce and uber to acquire more customers he hosts two podcasts marketing School with Neil Patel and Leveling Up, which combined have over 30 million downloads.

He also speaks frequently around the world on marketing and SaaS, software as a service. Eric, I don't want to butcher the last name. Sue. Sue. Like I'm going to sue you. Yeah, Sue. Not a Sue. Pretty easy. I'm excited to have you on today. I'm just going to have you tell us a little bit of background about yourself, what you specialize in, what kind of companies you love to work with, and what your passion is. Thanks for the intro, and thanks for having me.

So I'm completely focused on my book launch right now, so this leveling up book over here. And then other than that, I just focus around the marketing businesses that I have. So we have a marketing audience, I think combined right now, we're about 50 million downloads. So that's continuing to grow. And then we get traffic, good traffic from all different sources. So I've got the ad agency, I've got the software, we have marketing training, we've got all this different stuff, we have marketing events too.

So we just try to stay within our circle of confidence. And the whole idea here is we'll continue to stay within our circle of confidence. And the whole idea here is we'll continue to scale our audiences and buy or build businesses and plug them in as long as we feel like there's good leverage points. So I think it's taking my mindset more from a tactical marketer to more of a strategic investor in terms of thinking. Yeah, that's what I'm leaning towards too as too as I grow is just investing in home service companies. It's so easy once you learn how to do it. My buddy owns a company called Snow.

Josh, we used to be partners in a SaaS business for garage door parts. And SaaS is really cool, software as a service, and also selling things online on an e-commerce using WooCommerce or any of those sites. I use ClickFunnels. There's a million things out there for this kind of stuff. Tell me a little bit about what kind of businesses and how you worked with Amazon and customer acquisition and really what your niche is. Yeah. So our niche is actually SaaS because of the kind of foothold that we've established around it. And so the speaking, we rank well from an organic SEO perspective. We have our own SaaS.

So it just makes a lot of sense. And we work with some of the biggest SaaS companies in the world. And then big tech will take on when they come time from time, time to time. I mean, you know, Amazon, we worked with one of their, they actually have a SaaS company. Most people don't know that they own a SaaS tool

called Alexa. And then, you know, we work with like, you know, the Ubers of the world too. That's just more so just working with big tech. So we try to stay within our circle of confidence. We don't try to do too many things. And it's either SaaS, we have some e-commerce, and we have some education. But beyond that, we don't try to stray too far beyond what we know. Because it's really easy, as you know, in the world of service, it's really easy to just keep tacking things on and become really unfocused

and just really overwhelm your people. Yeah. It seems like most business owners tend to do that when they're small in business. It seems like they make a bunch of money at a good niche. And then they obviously, they start becoming real estate investors and going into SaaS. And now they go all these different directions. And we talk a lot about that in the home service expert podcast is uh focus i think what helped me is gary keller's book the one thing and it takes time i don't think you

just overnight you read about uh these guys uh gary vantage i talked about it a lot but you're 19 years old and you think you're just going to make 80 000 a month in a sass service with no hard work and it's just not that easy What do you have to say to the people out there that are the get rich quick by buying other people's infomercial crap? Yeah. You know, it's funny. I've been hanging out a lot on Clubhouse and there's actually a lot of these rooms where it's people that will, coaches and consultants that will put you into their funnels and basically try to upsell you and things like that. There's nothing wrong with coaches and consultants, but I think the way in which the information is presented and the way

in which you're sold might be super high pressure or something like that, where you just have a bad taste in your mouth. To your point, I think you just mentioned you're investing in services businesses. And then we talked about thinking long-term. When you think long-term, you're forced to get rid of the short-term thinking around short-term profits and things like that. You start to think about things such as, oh, building an amazing team. Well, how do you keep the team? You have to have an amazing culture, right?

All the stuff that I used to think was a bunch of baloney now matters a lot more than I ever thought it would. And so the short-termism that I'm seeing happening in the internet marketing or affiliate marketing world, the reason why that world has a stigma tied to it is because people aren't focused on building long-term relationships. And so that leads to kind of, you know, perverse incentives and you just see bad stuff happening across the board. You know, you've got a really interesting story of success. And I think the listeners will get a lot out of it. Do you want to share the story about how you grew the marketing agency and worked with Amazon and Airbnb and the huge brands?

Yeah, sure. So I'll try to make it practical for people. And so I took over my agency, Single Grain, and it was a failing SEO agency. The work we were doing no longer was valid in the eyes of Google. So I came in to help save the company. That's what I was brought in for. And there were four other partners. About six months into it, the four other partners decided that they wanted out and maybe it

was time to shut down the company. And I said, hey, guys, why don't you give me a shot? Here, what I'm just taking on. And my podcast co-host, Neil Patel, he was a partner in the company. He's like, dude, there's no brand equity here. As a friend, there's nothing you should get out. And I said, no, give me a shot. And so I ended up buying the company for $2 out of pocket and the rest were through the profits of the company. And I put in a contingency saying that

if the company folded, I would owe nothing. So for me, it was an asymmetric bet, meaning that I had unlimited upside if it worked and then my downside would be capped. I would learn a lot, but my downside was the company's lost, but I'm not going to lose a lot out of pocket. And so fortunately, actually, before we go into where it worked a year into the business, I took it over. I made it go from bad to worse, right? I read this book called let my people go surfing from the Patagonia co-founder. And I was like, Oh yeah, 27 year old founder. I have no idea what I'm doing. Right. Or quote unquote CEO. And I'm like, yeah, let my people go surfing. So I stopped showing up to the office and yeah, people don't want to be micromanaged. I stopped kind of just interacting

with the team. Right. I'm like, yeah, they'll figure it out. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's all about the vision. Right. And then what happens is everything implodes. We drop all the way down to one employee. My outside accounting firm calls me and says, Hey, it might be time to shut it down. And throughout that time, I actually got a job offer that was really high paying. And we're talking like off to seven figures or seven figures or more. And then what happened was I said yes. And then the day after I was like, oh, I can't do this. And I decided to keep going. And fortunately, through a series of lucky events, we were able to make it work. And I'm happy to go even deeper. But fortunately, the bet paid off. And the long-term bet was always,

and I think for anybody listening to this, if you have a services business, just understand that. If that's your goal, that's totally fine. But also understand that a service business can drive great cash flows. And you can take those cash flows and go reinvest it in more exponential or more durable sources of income, which is what I've done largely. Explain that to me a little bit. So you make your money from services, which right now, private equity, if you're in the right business, are paying 15 to 19 times multiples on EBITDA. I've heard of even higher than that. And very few people know how to run a service business. Amazon shits the bed. Facebook sucks. Google said, I'm just going to be a middleman. So I feel like there's very few people. I could run anything. You give me a

McDonald's. I always say this. I just got to focus on 400 square feet. You give me a service business. It's not for the faint of heart. So tell me a little bit about what you meant by that. You're totally right. I mean, you could get 15, 20x multiples if your EBITDA is 5, 10 million plus for a service business. So just to clarify, I mean, are you asking kind of why service businesses are a pain in the butt?

Is that what you're asking? Well, I'm curious if you said I took my service business, which really your service business was SEO, right? It was more of the advertising agency, right? Doing services for other people. And you applied that towards software as a service, which is you get them on, you keep them on, you make money and you get a much better multiplier for something like that. So tell me what you meant by that, because I want the listeners to understand and I'm personally, I want to understand. Yeah. So there's a couple of things within that. One thing I'll say is service business right now, they can actually

command 15 to 20 X multiples. SAS businesses, to your point, can actually command 15, 20 X, if not more, depending on how well it's growing. So I came from the world of SAS before I came into the agency. So I always kind of looked down on the agency and I've worked for an agency in the past because I am not a big fan of the business model, right? So I don't look down on any people that run it. I just, for me, it wasn't the right fit. That's what I mean by looking down on it.

Now, what actually happened was it was an SEO agency, but I actually had to fly the plane and change the engine while I was doing it because we changed into a paid media agency. So when we went all the way down to one employee, I was like, this SEO thing's not working anymore. Then I had to refer all the leads out. So we went switched an affiliate model. And then we took on all the clients again. So we switched back into a paid media model. So it was two switches before we made it work. Now, what you're asking is kind of what I'm doing right now with what I've been doing with the cash flow.

So if we drive, let's say, I'll just make numbers up right now, $200,000 in profit. Let's keep it simple for people, right? Then if I don't have any other costs, I'm not paying for a mortgage. I don't have family obligations, things like that. Well, okay, what's the best move for me? Probably to reinvest back into the business, right? So meaning I can invest in R&D, I can invest in people, because if I decide to take the profits, then I'm going to be paying 50% taxes to the government, right? I'm in California. And so my thinking here is, okay, I have this

cash flow coming in. Why don't I just use this as my angel round every year? This is my funding mechanism, right? So I think people should look at cash flowing businesses as funding mechanisms that they can use to redeploy the cash. If you look at Berkshire Hathaway, what they've done with See's Candies is it's a great dividend model for them. They're not going to reinvest back into See's Candies necessarily, maybe a little bit to maintain it, but they're taking all the profits and they're just putting it into different businesses.

So for me, we decided to build the SaaS company, ClickFlow. We built that from ground up. Right now, I'm in process for looking at buying other SaaS companies and other agencies as well because the deal's a lot better. Because if I can buy an agency, let's say it's doing $10 million a year, and then maybe it's doing 2 million in profit,

I can buy it maybe for a 3X multiple. So 2 million times three is $6 million. And you might think, oh my God, like I don't have $6 million. Well, if you can somehow find a way to find, my God, I don't have $6 million. Well, if you can somehow find a way to find 10% of the down payment, $600,000, you have the SBA pay the rest if you're in the United States. So there's a lot of different ways and I'm going in different directions right now, but I just want people to think and understand that once you have one cash flowing machine going, you can actually make it bigger and bigger and bigger. And what you're

optimizing for might not just be profits, but you're optimizing for enterprise value. Yeah, so there's a lot there. I agree with you to a certain extent, and I'll explain to you what I mean. Number one is there's nothing better that I can put money into right now as a platform company than my own company, because there's a beautiful thing called arbitrage. And if I start stacking the deck underneath me, right, I'm making 10 times on everything I buy that I know I can fix. So not only am I making 10 times, but if I triple that, I'm making 30 times. Find me an investment that I could go out and buy something, plug and play, and make 30 times on what I just paid for. Because I'm buying it for five, three to five times. I'm getting the extra 10, but I'm also tripling it. So in a certain aspect, as long as you're buying something

similar that, like right now, we're getting ready to build something pretty cool on top of our CRM, which is HubSpot on top of a home service CRM. And I love it. It's the unfair advantage. It's pulling in AI and all kinds of things that no one thought of. But what I like about what you said is you're going to pay Uncle Sam 50%. So you can invest in a company with net operating losses, nulls, and avoid taxes. So I think what Warren Buffett does better than anybody is he avoids paying Uncle Sam. and that's a whole different game and it's a fun thing then i don't talk about this on the podcast very often but you buy a shell company with a bunch of net operating losses carry those forward you shield

your profits for 10 years yep it's a lot of people do that yeah and it's like you know when you start getting into ipos or spax and this kind of stuff you start learning a whole different realm of what's out there and a lot of the guys in the home service base i'd say they got a master's degree in home service but they need to learn about private equity and and basically investments and you know a lot of cfos out there need to learn on this platform company and how it's i always say this on the, but it's better than drug dealing, because it's making money out of nothing. There used to be Google arbitrage. There used to be all kinds of arbitrage out there. But I got a lot of cool questions. And I'm going to go off script here because I've known SEO for a long time. You've got four algorithms now for home services. You've got SEO, pay-per-click. You've got your Google, my business page, and then you've got your LSA ads,

which is a Google guarantee. So a lot of people say organic's dead. As you go look at Google, and it starts out with the top ads being LSA, local service ads, Google guarantee, then you've got some pay-per-click, two more underneath there, Then you got your three-pack. And then you got a couple more pay-per-click usually. Then you got your organic. But what's cool is Marcus Sheridan wrote a cool book called They Ask, You Answer. And when you got enough domain authority, you can start answering questions that none of that stuff pops up for. Like what kind of toothpaste is better, Colgate versus Crest? And if you're in the toothpaste industry, you could go manufacture. Well, you want to talk about that stuff.

You also want to answer all the questions out there because then you build trust. And you could get hundreds of thousands of eyeballs with a website that don't directly go. It's hitting it higher in the funnel, right? They're not buy terms, but they're research terms that tend to use your company. So what I want to hear from you is since you're an expert at local SEO, you understand link building, you understand time on page, click-through rates, all that good stuff.

Tell me what the new world of SEO is and how you would look at each four of those different algorithms and really where you'd be spending your time. Because I think this is very, very important to everybody listening. So I would say I have more experience with big site SEO. I think you have more experience on local SEO front, but here's what I would say that I'm really

intrigued by. And I think you would love this. It's how do you go in your industry? How can you find websites that are heavily under-monetized, meaning that maybe they're monetizing through ads? How do you go buy these websites that have high domain authority in your niche that are ranking for keywords you want to be ranking for? And then you take it over. And maybe I'm saying we're starting from scratch. We have some money to buy a website, right? All of a sudden, you have this website with good domain authority. Whatever you tend to publish, kind of to what Tommy just said, you start to publish this stuff around your answering questions. So a lot of Q&A stuff, maybe a little longer form or whatever, you start to rank for all this stuff. Boom, your authority goes up even more.

And then when you're trying to rank for local pages, you're going to have an easier time doing that, right? Because a lot of local sites don't have that domain authority. They don't have that power. And so you can do that. You can buy these websites or let's say your site is already very strong.

So let's say Tommy has a strong website. Guess what? I can go find a website that doesn't have strong authority, but maybe they have a ton of content that I want. I can go buy that site for pennies on the dollar, plug all that content into my website. Boom, my traffic should explode. That's a good question. So I buy this website with 5,000 articles on Ahrefs. I'm a 62. In the home service space, you'll only find one company, I think, that's got a higher domain authority than mine i'd like to be a 75 because then i could outrank the manufacturers for their own search terms

um on a national level and then you're talking about thousands and thousands but then you got to think about your site map you got to think about the small things like the clickbait basically what are you going to put there when they find you is must see this updated 2021 before you buy and get people to click on you but then it all turns into a long funnel but this kind of stuff some people are going to be like dude you guys lost me and i'm sorry but this kind of stuff for me is like this is the gold nuggets that no one else the stuff that people will come back to later and this is the stuff that people pay thousands of bucks for like the conversation that we're having so oh this is genius i just have you on is amazing like this so all right this is selfish here but talk to me a little bit about so because i've got the domain authority tell me

how would i find and i believe thousand word articles keyword rich make sure they can pass certain plagiarism checkers out there. There's a million of them. And you go through all the content and make sure it's rich content, right? Tell me a little bit of a three-minute plan on how you'd go about doing that, because I love the idea. Yeah. So just to clarify, three-minute plan for- So you've got a domain authority. It's like, boom, it's the best of the best. You can break anything. How would you go about even going about buying the sites that have all the articles? Because I think that's genius. I've never heard of this approach. Yeah. So I mean, you can use a tool like Uber Suggest, which is from my podcast co-host Neil, or you can use Ahrefs. I love these tools or SEMrush.

All three are great. Actually, let me back up a second. If you use the Alexa tool, so alexa.com from Amazon, they will actually show you, if you type in your own website with maybe one or two competitors, they're going to show you a mind map of all the similar websites to you. And then you just click on each of those. They can show you how related they are. So you have this entire web. There should be about 100 websites that pop up and that's your lead list right there. Maybe there's only 20 or 30 that are qualified for you. And what you do there is you reach out to these sites. You don't necessarily say,

hey, Tommy, I want to buy your stuff. Because immediately you're going to put your defenses up. Who is this guy? But if I reach out and I say, hey, Tommy, I really like what you're doing. I think we should try to work out some type of partnership opportunity. Are you down to talk about it?

Boom, you and I get on the phone and we start talking. we start, you know, shooting the shit. And then we go for a while. And then at one point I'm just like, Hey, Tommy, like, have you ever thought about maybe selling a portion of your business? Right. Or, or maybe even all of it. And then you'd be like, what do you mean? And I'll be like, well, look, you know, I can see, you know, a business like yours going for this amount of dollars, whatever. Would you be interested in that conversation? Boom. Right. So you, So you come and you build a little rapport. It's like you're doing sales initially, right? You're reaching out to these people and then you build some rapport

and then boom, you go for the ask. And then so you get the website, you've got all these beautiful articles with great infographics, hopefully some videos and pictures and meta tags and everything's built perfectly. You just sit there with a VA and you export everything over to your site and just load it up and then boom. And then you probably throw some links at it,

some high quality, you know, 50 plus page rank, you probably hit what I would do is that make sure the title matches. Google gives it to you. What are the top 10 questions for this term? And they got a little click down menu and your page ranks better, you will take over that. So is that what you would do? Yeah. So, I mean, you have two options, really. You can keep the site as is, but I would probably, if your site has higher domain authority, I would just redirect all the 301 redirect them. I would 301 redirect all of them. And then you take over all of it. And then it's, then you have it focused, right? Then it's all sitting on one site. So that's probably the easiest way to do it. And then if you wanted to get a big stare right shot in your website, would you recommend I know

dot gov dot edu getting involved with a lot of charities really can make a big impact. One of the things that I did about a year ago is I called every company I work with the bank, my CRMs, everybody. And I said, hey, I'm a big fan, even my advertisers. And I said, I'm going to give you a testimonial, how much I love you. All I wanted you to put it on your site with a link to mine, with a long paragraph on how much we love you, Tommy from a one garage.com. And they all did it. And that was a quick way, a quick win. I don't know if you know who Matthew Woodward is. I work. Yeah. Yeah. He's a genius. I love the guy. He is always like success leaves clues. Just look at the algorithm. It'll show you what's going on with what's Google's algorithms

doing, but what else would you do to spike it? Since you've got so much of this high level SEO, we don't get guys like you on very often. I appreciate that. So, I mean, one thing I love, I mean, there's gotta be something in that. So a, what you're doing is genius because a lot of people in your industry don't understand SEO. So when you ask them for it, it seems like a whatever kind of ask, right? And so I'm sure you've operationalized that well. You've made a process around it where you continually do it.

But what I think is interesting too is you're going to know this better than I will, but there's got to be some type of widget or calculator that you can make. So as an example, Uber suggests, you know, Neil's tool or my tool, ClickFlow, we actually splintered off a feature and we gave it away for free. But when you create a linkable asset or like a tool, a lot of people are going to want to link to that, right? And maybe it's a calculator just for simplicity's sake. And people are going to use the calculator, right? That's why some of the strongest websites on the web are calculator websites. The entire website is just calculators. And when you click on their team page, they have like 40 people

working for their team. It's like a freaking calculator site. So can you go out there, use a tool like outgrow.co, make a calculator, or go out there and build something simple that you know that the auto industry or whatever needs? I know a software company that went out there and they said, how much is my business worth? And they'd go in there, plug everything in. And guess what it was? Free leads. Their acquisition lead got down to $3 when it averaged $150 per acquisition. So I just think those little things, these little tips that people aren't, if they don't listen to this and read between the lines and actually see, and I think a lot of this stuff is overwhelming for people because they're like, I just want to get a couple of reviews first and Yelp sucks.

And they, and they're like home advisor, what do I do? But this is a more advanced, it's a little bit more advanced. So it might not be for everybody. And that's why it reframes, right? I think it's, it's everything in life is just like, it's hard to say, Oh, on this podcast, we're going to talk about mindset. But at the end of the day, all we're really talking about is how our mindset is continually evolving

and just helping people think differently. That's what it really is. You know, it might not resonate with everybody, but there's one person, the goal is about this podcast. And, you know, we're getting about 30, some odd thousand downloads a month is really just, you're right. Change your mindset,

really think differently and understand there's four algorithms out there. Understand the world's evolving. I think what I do now is say, if I was Google, what would I do? First of all, I'd really want to authenticate the real business. So what would I need on a real business? I would need updated in 2021. I need to see that it has a real location. I want to see some pictures geotagged of the business. I want to know for sure that there's people that can help them in there and there's FAQs. And I think it's the, it's just giving as much to Google as possible because their job of a bunch of people that are PhDs and master's degrees, their whole goal is to give the best user experience because that's how they make their money. And if you can make sure that you're the right person in Google's eyes,

and a lot of that means working with Alexa, a lot of it means working with Hey Google, a lot of it means working with Siri. And what that's going to do is, I don't know how far we are from this, but the more science you put out there for these algorithms to find you, there's going to be a time that we're just talking to these computer algorithms to give us the best service. And I don't know what your thoughts are, but when do you think that's going to be? And it's going to scare a lot of people either way. It's already starting, but Google said they could book a hair appointment. I think two and a half years ago, I watched that done where the guy held up and booked a hair appointment. And I still haven't been able to do that yet, by the way.

So AI that they say is out there is, and here's a little clue too, guys. Make your website in Spanish and start to hit other languages because Google's algorithm is so far advanced in English, but it's not going to be near as advanced than these other ones. So what worked 10 years ago on SEO

is still working on the Spanish websites and the different places. So I haven't done that yet, but note to self here. This is why I love the podcast. Yeah, I mean, translations go a long way, right? So I think it's also the thing about diversifying too. It just, you can't have all your eggs in the SEO basket

because you can get torched overnight and then it's game over. So I think once you got it working, then starting to think about diversifying slowly. You can't tell how much this means for you to be on here. What's one thing you wish someone had told you when you started getting into the entrepreneurial journey? Yeah, I mean, if you don't mind, I think it ties in directly with the book. So I'll pull it up real quick.

Yeah, great. Leveling up. This whole leveling up thing. It's like, why are you even doing a book? Nobody reads books anymore, stupid. So it's like, for me, I love books. I love the physical touch of it. We're constantly leveling up thing. It's like, why are you even doing a book? Nobody reads books anymore. Stupid. And so it's like, for me, I love books. I love the physical touch of it. You know, we're constantly leveling up, right? The reason it's not called level up is because we're constantly getting better and better. We're constantly getting stronger. So I even have this Pokemon card up here. I paid two grand for this thing from a guy that used to work for me.

So this little Charizard over here, then this goes back into mindset again. The great thing about talking about SEO is SEO forces you into a long-term mindset. When you're running paid ads, it's like you're getting hits, right? And the moment you start, you turn it off, the party stops, right? You're really reliant on Facebook and Google. And 45% of venture capital money raised goes directly to those platforms, which is nuts. So you understand SEO first. You understand how to think long-term.

Again, I pulled up this Pokemon card for a reason. It's because I paid two grand for this thing because I think it's going to appreciate over time. But I also don't mind sitting there and waiting. And I think in my early days, I used to always think about, okay, everyone else is so far ahead of me. How do I get these results yesterday? But the older I get, the more I realize the more I think in decades, the better, right?

Because the long-term I'm patient, short-term I have urgency, but I operate a lot smoother now and I don't try to do everything at once, right? I don't try to do this business over here, senior living business over here, and I'm gonna try to start up this website over here, right? So I think it really grounds you.

And so my point of saying all this is that there's a lot of marketing tactics that Tommy and I can talk about on here, but it's not about the tactics. It's about the strategy and it's about what you want long-term. And I think that you need to set an end goal in mind. And I think the main thing is it really is about the journey, not the destination. But what I've really felt my success has been is finding who I want to become and trying to go visit them, get out of my zone and just bring an empty notebook and just fill this bad boy up with questions and then go there and get all my answers because it creates a lot of clarity. And, you know, it's interesting because I wrote down a couple of things here.

I think SEO is great. I also think what we've been really working on here at A1 is creating a system with social media engagement, everywhere from influencers to employees and teaching them how to go about going and visiting groups on social media. But now, you know, there's TikTok, there's Instagram, there's a million of them. But the main thing is teaching

people how to become an influencer and then giving them an easy way to post and get credit for it through the booking of jobs, which we call Schedule Engine. It's a software that we use and that books it right into our capacity board. So I have a guy that booked seven jobs yesterday by just posting on social media on Facebook. So you start getting involved in all of them and teaching a class on it. I'll just say the average person gets 10 jobs a day if you teach them right. You know, we have 300 employees. Let's say half of them really get into it. Let's just say 20%. Let's say 60 people. Let's say they're only booking five. That's 300 jobs a day. And you can't take that away from me because it's truly organic and my people are getting paid for it. And then there's partnership marketing, which is the best about SaaS models,

because part of what we got to do is when we get into SaaS, software alone is, I only want one user interface. So my whole life is API and webhooks, right? And if you're like I am, you don't love having to log into 20 different... I think Facebook and Google have done a great job. You hit log in with Google, log in with Facebook, we're there in almost everything. What is your take on all that? I mean, that's where the world's going. I think eventually we're going to get to a point where you don't even get the one click. It's just the look at your eyes, right? And then boom, you're authenticated. So going back to one of your questions earlier, I think the world's going to change quite a bit in the next five years or so. We're going to start to see it change

rapidly, right? I think the barber booking stuff, that's actually going to start to work really well. And look, all the stuff people used to dismiss, here's another long-term thing, right? People used to dismiss Bitcoin as a toy. They used to dismiss Snap as a toy. They dismissed esports or gaming as a toy, right? all three of these things are inevitable now snaps what hundred hundred billion dollar company now something like that right so i think it's really facebook dude i looked at it this morning i could have bought it at 20 bucks man when they did the ipo yep it's okay there's a heavy into bitcoin i actually got you can buy in on the clubhouse ipo there you go i love that see so it's just different types of thinking.

I think it's, we talk about long-term thinking, but also having strong views, but holding them very loosely, right? Just being like, if Tommy and I talk and we disagree on something, if Tommy brings me new data to disprove my point, I'll change my opinion quickly, right? So again, I think the best way to think about this, the best mental model right here is, is how do you emulate the best investors in the world? It doesn't matter if you're marketing a salesperson, whatever, if you can start to think like that, then you'll be head and shoulders above the rest. You know, it's funny because I talked to a lot of people that moved to Puerto

Rico as a strategic play, because what happens if you become a citizen and really spend more than six months there, you only pay like 3% taxes when you sell your company so but you got to check your boxes it's hard to do but half the the rich people there are kids with crypto and these the older generation looks at these kids like losers they're like these guys are lucky and i don't know today i saw bitcoin at 50 000 i don't know what it said just a second i go into coinbase or celsius i've got a different currencies but i think this thing's gonna run way off topic here but i love this stuff and it's my podcast so i'll do it you know i think it'll run to a million plus i think it'll probably run to 10 million to me it's either a million or zero

right this by the way guys it's not advice. This is just talking about it, right? So it's either zero or a million. And I'm willing to take my chances. I don't know how you think about this, Tommy, but it's like, if I lose my money and it's fine because I know how to go back and make the money, I'll replenish. I put my life savings down there. I'm looking at it as a currency. You could invest in the pound, which is British. You could invest in the yen, which is Chinese. There's a million different currencies. This is just another currency. But here's the deal. Do not invest because I said this.

This is, for me, is party money. If it goes up, woohoo. If I lose it, oh well. But the fact is, as the governments come and put more restraints on these currencies, guess what happens? All the institutional money comes in because now they go, now we could actually use this. As people come in and invest more in marijuana and they put more restraints, you find more investors, more institutional money pouring in. And it's

a whole different thing. We've seen what's happened recently with GameStop. It's a whole different animal now. And it's scary to most, exciting for guys like us, right? Yeah. I mean, look, at the end of the day, you control what you can control, right? We talk about building web assets and things like that. And then that will generate the cash flows. You decide what you want to do with it. But at the end of the day, like, again, if you can control what you can control, you can diversify, you know, slowly, then you'll have so many options where if something bad happens, you can capitalize on it instead of having to kind of, you know, run for the hills. When you talk about benefits and challenges of specializing and

choosing a niche in business, you know, I focus on garage doors. I fix them and replace them. I don't do a lot of new builder work. I don't do a lot of commercial work. I'm residential retrofit. And I'm looking at a little bit more of epoxy because it's, I'm already in the garage. You've already been refinancing. I want to own the garage and I'm looking at garage storage solutions. And you know what? There's a lot of people that I look at that they made a lot of money. I'm like, but I do garage chores. Okay. Like it's making a better mousetrap basically. Unfortunately, when you look at facebook instagram they were so ingenious they revolutionized an industry that never existed they thought outside of the box

i thought outside the box a lot but it's still garage doors so i'm wondering from your perspective in a home service niche what you would do i mean you've got a lot of hvac plumbing electrical businesses that those are the the top tier of the home service echelon. And this is the home service expert. So tell me a little bit about what you would do. Let's just use simple numbers like you did. You're at 15%. You're a $10 million company. You're doing 1.5 million. At that rate, you're probably looking at five or six times maybe. What would be your goals? What would be your mindset? Yeah. I mean, look, I can't say i've had an hvac company before but i think if i were doing okay 1.5 million and then uh 15 right or 10 let's call it 10

profit margin is that fair no no so 10 million uh-huh 15 percent probably got it got it yeah so what would i be doing i mean i personally would just repeat the same model with my service because of my ad agency, by the way, is a services business, right? And so what can I go out there and buy? Because here's what's happening in the agency world, right? And this can maybe carry over into the HVAC world. There's a lot of roll-ups happening.

And what that basically means is you go find other companies out there that are either similar to you or maybe could be even bigger than you in size and you can buy it for a smaller multiple and you can just use the cash flows from that business to pay off the sale. And so I think you can get an SBA loan. You can now do crowdfunding. Starting March 17th, you can raise up to $5 million from just unaccredited investors. So you have a lot of options at play now. You can do revenue-based financing. You can get the cash and then you can

just go out there and go find these deals. And then before you know it, this company that's doing $10 million, if you buy nine more of the same size, you're at $100 million now. And then now you combine, okay, let's say you're still at 15 million. So that's 15 million. You're at 15 million bucks, right? 15 million, you put like an 18X multiple on it, 270 million bucks, right? So now you're playing a much bigger game. If you want to, you don't have to, but it's just a different way to think about it. And here's the deal. You go into this business and this is what private equity companies do. And this is what the best investors in the world do. They go, how can I buy this

software for cheaper than they're paying? How can I increase their average ticket? Decrease, get the customers coming back for more, get more service agreements. How could I work with a better insurance agency? In fact, I just switched. I saved $250,000 a year. One little thing, your merchant services, you renegotiate, you add, because here's what happens. If you're like me, and you probably are, the biggest companies in the world pay a little bit less because they spend a lot more. They've got buying power. So another thing that private equity companies do is they look at your leadership team. And I love Jim Collins, good to great built the last. And what they do is they personally profile everything and they find out what you're missing. They find out you're missing

that C type personality. They're going to put that person in there that should see an immediate increase of 20% because there's no logical thinking going on. And I know where I'm at in the spectrum. And I know part of my leadership team is nothing like me. And that's why we oppose each other, but we balance each other. And then the finance team is completely different mindset. And that's kind of the E-myth. I don't know if you ever heard of the E-myth. But it's like, I'm the entrepreneur 10 years ahead of time i'm the dreamer you've got the manager then you've got the tech the manager's living on yesterday's results the text is only saying today's what matters the entrepreneur which i'm 90 brain it's like what's going to happen in 20 years it's pretty interesting what are your

thoughts on that yeah i mean the e-myth i mean good to great i mean these are all great books i think kind of what you're talking about, too, is really the whole concept around traction, the entrepreneur's operating system. And then you have Rocket Fuel, which is a concept of the visionary and integrator. So guys like you and me, you know, for every integrator, there's four of us, right? So you and I are actually a lot more common. It's just who can actually execute on it. The integrator is actually the one that makes everything happen. So I think that's just how life is. And you know what, though? The rocket fuel changed my life because I realized a lot of people tend to say, and Gina Wickman was on the podcast, but a lot of people say, I'm both because we're cocky individuals. We're human beings. I know where I live. And I live in a dreamer's world.

I build a vision. And then I whiteboard that vision on the right side of the whiteboard and move backwards. And I say, what needs to happen this decade, this year, this quarter, this month, this week? What needs to happen today? What do I need to start thinking about to build this vision, which is my dream? So I think a lot of people need to just sit back

and a lot of people say, whoa, there's a lot here. And I think what I've been able to do is compartmentalize where the best use of my time is with a very good strict calendar and making sure that we're able to identify these things. You know, what are your thoughts on that, too? Because a lot of a lot of us are ADHD and as a visionary, I think to your point, you just mentioned something really important. So there's a concept known as the BHAG, right? The Big Hairy Audacious Goal. And you know about it. And so there's a book called Scaling Up, which is written by the

founder of this group called Entrepreneurs Organization, Vern Harnish. So there's a BHAG, that's a 10 to 25 year outlook. But most people don't know about this other book called the 3HAG, right? So the 3HAG is actually a three-year plan. And it shows you what you got to be doing from Q1 all the way to Q12, right? So Q1, Q2, Q3, all the way up to Q12, right? What you're doing every single month, what your goals are, and then kind of where you're at with your organization, what parts are weak in terms of the most important functions. And there's like all of these things that are super detailed for the next three years, right? And then I think it's also really important to your point, talking about, okay, annual planning, that goes into traction, then you have your quarterly

planning as well. But even beyond that is a vivid vision. So I read a book from a guy named Cameron Harold. He hangs on a clubhouse a lot. So I know Harold was on my podcast too. He's great. Right? So vivid vision is great because you have to basically, it took me a few, few days to write that document. I had to really think about it. Okay. What do I envision for the next three years? And the first time I wrote the Vivid Vision was three years ago. And I look at it now, I'm like, we're in 2021. We have to wait till August, but largely, we've hit almost everything, right? So to be able to define it and call your shots that way, just understanding again, you have a one-year plan, a three-hack, you have a Vivid Vision, and you have a 10 to 25-year plan. And then you have an overarching mission as well.

For me, it's something that I'll never accomplish. It's to level up the world. And what a mission is, is ideally something that you can't accomplish because you can wake up every single day, just striving for it. So that's where I'm at. I don't know about you. Yeah. I look at GarageBars as a tool to get to the next dimension. It's what I have now. I wasn't born with a golden spoon, you know, and a lot of people, most people, most entrepreneurs weren't, you know, I look up to guys like Elon Musk and you look at a guy like Elon Musk and I read a lot of books, man. I can tell you it's crazy. And the one thing about Elon is he was obsessed with chess. He could see 10

moves ahead and the best entrepreneurs, they learn to see 10 moves ahead and the best entrepreneurs they learn to see 10 moves ahead they learn to play poker in a certain way that they don't they don't need to win the next three or four games they're working their opponent they're showing their bluffs they got a whole plan in place and then checkmate and they can continue to do it again and again and i know that you throw me in this business what i've learned. And unless something bad happens, I feel like I'm one step ahead. And by the way, you brought up poker. And poker is one of the most important things I did in college. I didn't go to class in college. I played 10 to 14 hours of poker a day. And whether it's tournaments or just no limit, go to the casino and all that. And poker teaches you a lot

of different things about investing in general. It teaches you to think long-term. It also teaches you to eat a lot of poo-poo because you can play really well for three months, six months, 12 months, but variance will hit you. You can lose all 12 months, right? So it really humbles you and it forces you to think in bets and just all of it, learning how to play the person, learning how to control your emotions. There's just a lot that goes into it. And the best, some of the best founders or investors in the world, they play a ton of poker. It's interesting.

Anything long-term that you look at, I always say, I feel like we're playing chess and most people are playing checkers and they don't understand. But these little things for me, I always say, if you ever worked out with somebody, you go to the gym and you bring somebody with you, all of a sudden you're like, you're doing 20 more sets, you're lifting heavier, you're pushing them a little bit harder. That's what these podcasts do for me. It's making me think outside of the box, challenging myself, is sometimes we take notes and we remember things and we say, wow, you know, the V.I. I haven't heard that in a while. Visionary revisit that.

And a lot of the books I read, I revisit them two years later and they mean completely something different than they did at the time. So the classics like the kind of friends and influence people, one of my favorite books on there, any copies. Love it. So I'm going to dig into a few more questions. Then I want to hear a lot about, obviously, leveling up how to master the game of life. I want to talk about that. We think about sales, marketing, and recruitment. What's one thing somebody could do today to increase their sales? Yeah. So it's funny that you said sales and recruiting. If you really want to think about, you said one thing today, but long-term, what you want to be doing is you hired the best salespeople

in the world that have done it, right? I've hired in too many scenarios where if I'm going into surgery, do I want to hire someone that has potential or someone that's done it a thousand times? And too many times I've hired someone that has potential, right? Idea, what I've learned now

is just to hire someone that's done exactly what you're aiming for, right? So that's a long-term type of thing. Sales from a service perspective, here's what I think. And you're really looking for the channels that have really strong organic reach. So let's say a lot of your customers are hanging out on LinkedIn, okay? So LinkedIn might be an example. Great for B2B. The organic reach is just nuts right now, right? And if you post something, a lot of people engage with it. I was looking at a page the other day, 20,000 followers, not a lot. I have 20,000 followers on LinkedIn, not a lot in grand

scheme of things. When he posts something to that page, it gets 1000 likes and like 400 comments, right? And so when you think about that, that's basically getting like, at least 50, if not 100,000 views on it. And that's organic free, quote unquote, reach, right? So that's basically getting like at least 50, if not a hundred thousand views on it. And that's organic free quote unquote reach, right? So that's LinkedIn. The other thing I would say is probably not as applicable to home service businesses, but the clubhouse reach is nuts right now. So when I do a podcast tomorrow with Neil, we're going to go live on clubhouse. Last week we did it. We had 500 people joined the room in the first hour, right? While we're also publishing it to, to podcasts as well. So the mindset here is I'm not saying these specific channels, I'm saying, think about where the organic reaches, think about where your audience is, and then,

then go out there, put stuff out there and also reach out to people that engage as well, right? Sure. You can absolutely hand-to-hand combat, you know, DM people, cold call people, that stuff works, but I'm trying to give you something that might be a little different than what you're used to. You're going to kill me. And you know, Dennis Hughes has been talking about clubhouse every day. I was just in a room with him the other day. We're probably going to go tonight too. So yeah, he's a man. He's been hitting me up every day and, and I I'm still on Android. So I got, I'm getting, get the iPad, dude, get the iPad. And then you'll be able to do the whole setup where you recorded the podcast. All right.

I'm getting an iPad. You know, I have a million iPads here for work. So I go into last year questions, but I want to talk real quick about, tell me more about the book leveling up. How do we get it? What's the best way? Are you going to do it on audible eventually? What's the deal with it?

So here's the thing. Like I keep pulling up the book up the book but like it's like this is the first physical product i've done like i was kind of whatever about it until i got the book i was like holy crap this actually looks pretty cool because there's a lot of illustrations and things in it and it's really different than like a kindle right so there's a kindle version there's this the audiobook probably won't come out until june or July, but I think the pictures actually do a lot here. So you can pick it up at your favorite online retailer, or you can go to levelingup.com. I managed to get the domain.

And yeah, the entire thing is about playing the game of life. So playing the game of life, leveling up, challenging. And it's no longer can we just sit here like the Yellow Pages. I think people lived through 40 years, 50 years, 100 years of the yellow pages. Now it's like, what's the next thing?

I'm curious what your thoughts are because you mentioned Clubhouse and the IPO. I haven't really done a lot of research on that. Is that happening soon? I don't think it's happening anytime soon. But I just think based on your trajectory right now, this format is here to stay. So we know Facebook's already making a competitor. Twitter's already made a competitor. But I think, look, even though they make competitors, look at Snap, right? Snap's still alive. Again, I just looked at their market cap, about $95 billion. That's still a very significant company. And so I think the future

of audio, social audio is going to be here to stay. I think the time will come for VR. It's still a little, it's not the right timing yet because, you know, having a bulky thing on your head that kind of weighs down your skull is not the best experience. And I think, dude, you know what's super exciting to me?

I was looking at the non-fungible tokens. So these NBA plays, you can buy, like let's say you see LeBron dunking. You can actually buy that play and you can own it on the Ethereum blockchain, right? So the blockchain technology stuff is actually coming into play now. And I'm like, finally,

you know, we're starting to see some practical use cases for Ethereum, right? Which is why you see the price going up so much. Yeah, I got to mix it. It's mostly Bitcoin and then I own Litecoin and then I own Ethereum. And quite honestly, I bought half of my Bitcoin through the stock because it makes it more liquidable. But interesting stuff. One thing I always ask is if somebody wants to reach out to you, what's the best way to kind of just connect with you? Hit me up on Twitter or Instagram. It's the same username at Eric O-S-I-U. Twitter, Instagram. And then what are three books, other than obviously levelingup.com,

which everybody needs to buy a book. What are three books you'd recommend to the listeners? You mentioned How to Win Friends and Influence People. So I'll leave that one alone. So The Hard Thing About Hard Things is one of the most recommended books on my podcast. And it's the book I love because it talks to, it really speaks to the pain around entrepreneurship. So it's the book I love because it talks to, it really speaks to the pain around entrepreneurship. So that's written by Ben Horowitz. A second one would be

influenced by Robert Cialdini. And I'm sure you've read that one, that one, you can pull it up. Oh, right here. Yeah. I bet you met him. Yeah. Yeah. It's a great book. It's basically human psychology. And then number three, I'm trying to think of what my number three, oh, the inner game of tennis, right? It teaches you at the end of the day, what it takes to become an amazing gladiator in the moment. So. Jeez, look at you that, you know, I've heard of one of those. I haven't heard hard things about hard things or the inner game of tennis. And we talked about a lot of stuff and I had a little

ADHD there, but I got the stuff that I really wanted to talk about because that one tactic could possibly lead to $100 million very easily. And, you know, if there's anything else you want to talk about, but what I like to do is give you the floor for a few minutes here to give. There's some questions here. I don't know if you got time for a couple more, but maybe we can do a quick speed round and then I'll give you a speed round. Let's do it. What are some gold nuggets you could share about people working on a real tight marketing budget? Yeah, I think with the real tight marketing budget, I kind of gave it already with the organic reach thing. You can do that or you can work with micro influencers. I forgot what the tool was, but there are a lot of tools out there that will show

you the size of these influencers. And what I mean by micro influencers, maybe anyone from 50K followers or so up to a couple low million. And those people, the attention is underpriced. They'll do a post for you. That's great. That's one piece of it. And then I wouldn't try to blow everything on ads because if you don't have a working funnel, then why would you do that?

But I'll go with organic reach and then kind of micro influencers. What are some of those tools that you'd recommend to find micro influencers? Oh, Mighty Scout. That's one. I just remembered it right now. My brain got lucky. Mighty Scout. Cool. All right. Are there any things that you'd recommend for standing out from your competition online other than like reviews and then maybe infographics and stuff like that? Yeah, I'm going to give you a boring answer that both you and I know, but it's giving more of a shit than your competitors do. Because at the end of the day, most service companies are not good at retention. Like they don't measure the retention that much. I mean, I think it's important to

measure your NPS score and just figure out how can you add more touch points? How can you continue to add value to keep that relationship going? Because most people think, oh, the sale is done and then we're done. Okay. And as far as the updates with the algorithms and Google, do you see any drastic changes? I know Panda and Penguin hit us and then MobileGaddon hit us years and years ago. And it still doesn't come out every couple of weeks. And they're never as significant.

I think JCPenney's a bloom off the map. Do you see anything coming in the near future other than probably talk to text and stuff like that? I don't pay too much attention to algorithms. Same thing with my podcast co-host. We just kind of continue on because if we become married to the algorithm, then we start to, we take our eye off the ball on the most important things, which is just delivering great value and great content. If something really bad happens, we're obviously monitoring our traffic. And for ClickFlow, we actually have a content decay tools

that shows you when you're losing traffic to your top posts. But other than that, we just eye on the ball of value. Is there any pointers you could give to create good content? Obviously for me, I think it's a video of the product. It's showing people. And really when I go to a video on how to do something on my phone or my electronic watches and everything, I tend to go for a video on how to do something on my phone or my electronic

watches and everything, I tend to go for the shortest one straight to the point with the most views. I think short, concise, quick, and deliver as much as possible in a short amount of time. But is there anything else you'd recommend to really have your content pop out? You just inspired me. I forgot to mention one thing. So Instagram Reels, TikToks, and YouTube Shorts. These are all the short form

versions for these respective platforms. And I think Snap just came out with one as well called Spotlight. But if you do a short video there, it could be 15 to 60 seconds or so, make it short and to the point. The organic reach on every single one of these is nuts right now. And so what I would say is to your point, short and sweet, probably shorter even than what you're doing. And you're good to go. I can speak for me. When I create content, the only thing I'm good at is really teaching. So I just love learning first and then teaching and I'm just talking and just understanding the whole time. My goal is just to educate. So that's what works for me. And I think in the home services world, it really works for everyone across the board. So you don't need to be this super

charismatic guy or gal. You just need to teach and provide value. You know, it's interesting. And I'll let you talk here and close us out here in a minute. But I was watching the TikTok videos, Instagram reels, all of them. We've got a whole division for custom doors that really 40% of your curb appeal, we call it the smile of your home is your garage door. And we build them from scratch, right? We're literally, we build these awesome wood overlay doors they're ridiculously badass they really look amazing and i'm gonna have a camera from two angles just recording us building it and then real quick showing how we changed it out and then having a beautiful picture overnight of just it getting from sunlight to sundown and it'll be less

than a one minute video i mean quick quick quick and those videos are getting millions of hits it's crazy there you go take advantage of that organic it's like you put the camera on the stuff and people are like well that's cool i'm gonna share that and i'm excited man this thing's getting me so pumped up so what i'd like to do now eric is give you a minute and basically you can tell us any takeaways anything's wake up smell the roses live your life enjoy the destination but maybe something that'll let the audience give them something to to go do in the next couple months or year obviously go buy the book leveling up yeah leveling up.com but what

else would you recommend for the audience? You could take the floor. So there's a chapter in the book called Thievery. And the reason I titled it that way is because most people have this, there's a cognitive dissonance. We all like to think that we're these amazing original thinkers, when the reality is all we do is copy from other people. So when you look at this mouse over here, Apple, they stole the mouse from Xerox in the 70s or 80s. They stole the GUI, the graphical user interface. Elon, for all his genius, I mean, the rockets still look pretty same foundationally, right? The big difference is they come back to Earth now. And so you think about what Picasso said, the great artist steel, right?

And so what we're doing right now, us being on a podcast, that's an iteration from the radio back in the day. And I just think we hold this whole original thing to be too sacred. It's perfectly fine to learn from other people and then take maybe 5% here, integrate it to your business, maybe another 5% over here, and then just make something original. I think people put too much pressure on themselves to have to be original. And so even when you look at, I have an ad agency, you have a services business, right? Like fundamentally, it's nothing too groundbreaking. We're just adding our own spin to it based on the information we're getting and based on how we're reprogramming ourselves constantly. So. I couldn't agree more. I want to give you guys one more thing because I read a book over the weekend when I was on my way to

Sedona and it made me think, just now you made me think of it, is because we are focused on one thing. I think one thing that me and you do a good job of is we really want to deliver the best thing to our customers, the buyer experience. And the book is called The Go-Givers Sell More. And all it explains is if you truly deliver value and don't care about the sell, you care about an amazing experience and true lifelong relationships, you win every time. And it's the gift that keeps giving. So lots of books out there, but the go-giver sell more is only, that's a three hour book. I know you, if you listen to it, like the speed I do, it goes pretty quick, but listen, Eric, you are the man. I really

got a ton out of this. It was a high level conversation for me. You're going to make me think differently about a lot of stuff. So I really appreciate you coming on and you delivered a ton of value. Appreciate it. Thanks for having me, Tommy. All right. Thanks, brother. Appreciate that. Take care. Later. Hey, guys, I just wanted to thank you real quick for listening to the podcast from the bottom of my it means a lot to me. And I hope you're getting as much as I am out of this podcast. Our goal is to enrich your lives and enrich your businesses and your internal customers, which is your staff.

And if you get a chance, please, please, please subscribe. You're going to find out all the new podcasts. You're going to be able to ask me questions to ask the next guest coming on. And do me a quick favor, leave a quick review. It really helps us out when you like the podcast and you leave a review. Make it four or five sentences. Tell us how we're doing. And I just wanted to mention real quick, we started a membership. It's homeservicemillionaire.com forward slash club. You get a ton of inside look at what we're going to do to become a billion dollar company. And we're just, we're telling everybody our secrets,

basically. And people say, why do you give your secrets away all the time? And I'm like, you know, the hardest part about giving away my secrets is actually trying to get people to do them. So we also create a lot of accountability within this program. So check it out. It's homeservicemillionaire.com forward slash club. It's cheap. It's a monthly payment. I'm not making any money on it to be completely frank with you guys, but I think it will enrich your life season further. So thank you once again for listening to the podcast. I really appreciate it.