The Home Service Expert Podcast - Understanding the Principles of Sales to Build Better Customer Relationships

Episode Date: August 16, 2019

Kevin Knebl is the CEO of Knebl Communications, LLC, a social selling and relationship marketing firm that specializes in helping companies realize their full selling and relationship-building potential. He wears many hats: speaker, author, trainer, and social selling and relationship marketing specialist. He's been a Joie de Vivre coach since 1994, and was named 2008 to 2010 Most Recommended Business Speaker in the World among over almost 300,000 business speakers worldwide. He also has the most number of recommendations on his LinkedIn profile than anyone else in the world. In this episode, we talked about Relationship Marketing, Social Media, Self-Improvement...

But becoming an expert at LinkedIn is like trying to become an expert at the transmission in your car. Because if you study the transmission in your car, that's not going to make you a better driver. So there's a lot of irony in this because people come to me every day and I get on my knees and I thank God. But they come to me every day and they say, you know, show me how to use LinkedIn to grow my business or show me how to use Facebook to grow my company or whatever. And they innocently think that if they have a deeper understanding of how the transmission in their car works, they're going to be a better driver. So I have to kind of wake them up a little bit. And I have to say, you think LinkedIn is going to help you grow your business. And I'm not denying that it will. I've helped my clients generate over $450 million in revenue and referrals using LinkedIn. I've generated for myself millions and millions of dollars using LinkedIn.

But it wasn't because I was a LinkedIn expert. It was because I am a conversation expert. Because if you have the communication skills of a rock, getting on LinkedIn isn't going to help you. Now you're just going to be a rock on LinkedIn. So the irony is that people think I need to study, you know, Instagram or whatever. No, you need to study communication skills like we were just talking about 10 minutes ago with how to win friends and influence people. Welcome to the Home Service Expert, where each week, Tommy chats with world-class entrepreneurs and experts in various fields, like marketing, sales, hiring, and leadership, to find out what's really behind their success in business. Now, your host, the home service millionaire, Tommy Mello.

Welcome back to the Home Service Expert. Tommy Mello here. I'm here with Kevin Knievel. He's not Evil Knievel. He's Kevin Knievel. And he's an international speaker, author, trainer, and social selling and relationship marketing specialist. I'm going to butcher this, but joy de vivere. Can you go ahead and say that for me, Kevin? Yeah, it's a French term. It's Joie de Vivre.

So he's a coach from 1994 and he's still doing it today. He's the chief business development officer at Medical Voice Incorporated. He was the 2008 to 2010 most recommended business speaker in the world among over almost 300,000 business speakers worldwide. He's the co-author of the book, The Social Media Sales Revolution, The New Rules for Finding Customers, Building Relationships, and Closing More Sales Through Online Networking, and contributing author of Learning Marketing with Social Media in 7 Days. Kevin, this is quite the resume here. Do you want to tell the audience and myself a little bit about where you came from and what you're doing today? Well, thanks, Tommy. It's wonderful to be here. It's an honor to be here. So thank you. And you

pronounced my name correctly, which is rare. I'm so used to people messing up my name that it's shocking to hear somebody get it right. So thank you. Yeah, I'll give you the quick 50,000 foot story. I used to be a piano player in New York City many years ago. That's what I did for a living. Very different line of work than what I do now. Through a weird chain of events, I got into sales, which would have been the last thing in the world I ever would have imagined. But life is funny. Had some good mentors and eventually became the top salesperson for four separate companies in four separate industries, including being the top salesperson in the world for an international consulting company with over 350 salespeople in 15 countries. And then in the early 2000s, I got on LinkedIn, started using it in my

sales efforts. People started asking me to teach them how to use it and really started doing some speaking, training, coaching, consulting around sales, networking, social selling, LinkedIn, stuff like that. That led to a speaking career. And then for about the last 10 years, I've been kindly asked to speak in about one to two cities per week all around the world with no marketing or advertising whatsoever. So on any particular day, I could be in Australia. A couple of weeks ago, I was in Ireland. Last week, I think I was in Houston or Kansas. And I just get on my knees every day and I thank God. But if you had told me I'd be doing this 10, 20 years ago, I never would have believed you. But life is funny. I love that story. You're a success without even trying. And it's kind of funny that we're talking about sales. And yesterday, I gave a presentation and I everybody

looks at sales as a four letter it's worse than the f-word you know it's like oh I don't you know all you guys care about is sales and you guys are salesmen and I said hey how did you meet your wife how did you meet your husband you were selling so tell me your perception on sales I'd love to hear this from one of the best salesmen of all time. Oh, well, I don't know that I'm one of the best. So you're very kind, Tommy. But you know, I, as a piano player, are you familiar, Tommy, with like personality tests like Myers Briggs and disc and stuff like that? Yeah, I train on disc and I've probably taken at least 20 of those. And I don't like the outcome every time. Apparently, Kevin, I'm ADHD.

You wouldn't believe that. Well, you know what's funny is most salespeople I've met are ADHD. But if you were to give me any kind of personality profiling test, I would pretty much always score 100% right brain, artsy fartsy, creative, flaky kind of guy. So when I went from being a piano player to being a salesperson, a sex change would have been more in my comfort zone. I was so far out of my comfort zone that literally every morning, I would throw up on my way to my first sales call. So the whole concept of sales really freaked me out. But then I just made a very minor shift in my head. And I said, why not look at this not as sales, but as creating, nurturing, and deepening relationships? And it sounds a little bit like semantics, but it's not. I really changed the way I looked at sales. And then all of a sudden, the sky was the limit.

So it's not uncommon, as you know, Tommy, for people to say like that gentleman said to you, all you salespeople want is a commission check or whatever. But people say all kinds of stupid things. Just nod politely when people talk, but watch what they do. So that's my perception of sales. There's lots of different ways to sell. I've got my way, you've got your way. But the principles behind effective sales don't change. Principles are things that never change. Gravity is a principle. So gravity works the same for males, females, old, young, fat, skinny, black, white. And the principles

behind effective sales are never going to change. And in this conversation that you and I are having, I'm guessing that we'll probably poke around at some of that. But yeah, sales is really about, in my opinion, and again, you're just getting my opinion, is that it's really about creating, nurturing, and deepening relationships. That's how I look at it. But other people might not necessarily look at it that way. Does that make sense, Tommy? A hundred percent. And I couldn't agree more.

And, you know, in the home service niche, we get a very short time to make an impression. And what I've learned is there's a good book that I'm sure you're familiar with of how to win friends and influence people. But people love to hear their first name, their last name. They love to hear people ask questions. And I've literally used to time myself on how little I could talk in a conversation to make a sale. And the least amount of time I talk, the more closing. And I think conversion rate is important in everything. And the least amount of time I talk, the more closing. And I think conversion rate is important in everything. And that's something that people don't really keep track of that as much as I think they should. But then again, a guy like you gets to pick and choose their clients. So it's a different relationship. Yeah. Can I make a comment on that? How to win friends and influence people thing?

Yes. So I speak on about one to two stages per week all around the world every week. I can't think of any presentation I've ever delivered in the last 10 years that I have not started off without holding up my dog-eared, tattered, underlined, written in the margin and held together with tape copy of how to win friends and influence people.

Because when I first got into sales in 1992, that was one of the first books that one of my mentors suggested that I read, but I didn't read it. I studied it. And I continue to this day and probably till however long I'm going to be around, I will always give credit to Dale Carnegie for delivering 30 simple principles, because that book has 30 chapters. And at the end of every chapter is a one-sentence summary of the principle in that chapter. So I recite those chapter principles every morning in the shower before I even start my day. And I've been doing that for 25 years. So because most people, what they do in the morning is they get up and they turn on the news and they see what country got bombed and what's going on with the economy and who got killed. And then they wonder why they start their day in a bad mood. I say to myself, my success today is determined by my ability to sincerely and authentically

connect with people. So I can't afford to turn on the news and see who got raped and what kind of car accidents are going on. I need to set my mind straight. So I just recite fundamental techniques in handling people. Number one, don't criticize, condemn, or complain. Number two, give honest and sincere appreciation. Number three, arouse in the other person an eager want. Six ways to get people to like you. Number one, become genuinely interested in other people. Number two, smile. Number three, remember that a person's name is to that person the sweetest and most important sound in any language. And on and on and on, just like you mentioned, people like hearing their name. So when people deepen their understanding of the simple principles behind effective interpersonal skills, their sales will go through the roof. I love that.

You know what? You just inspired me. I've read the book. I've got it on Audible, but I've never studied it. And I think that people that are listening right now would be wise to study that book and learn from it and practice it on a daily basis. I don't know if I'll recite it in the shower, but that is one of my goals. You know, for the people listening, stop reading books. Read street signs and menus, but study books.

If you're going to take your hard-earned money and buy a book, don't just go through it once. Study that thing and get it so you know it so well that the evidence of your knowledge of it shows up in your life. I always ask people, have you read How to Win Friends and Influence People? And lots of people say yes. And then I say to them, is your business 99% by invitation Tommy of reading How to Win Friends and Influence People? It would only take a jury 20 seconds to go, yeah, he's absolutely read that book. He's a walking, talking testament to that book. So yeah. And you don't have to memorize all the principles. I'm just a lunatic. But as long as you read a little bit of it every day, you're good to go. Very, very powerful. When we talk about reading books, Kevin,

look, I wrote a book. It took me two and a half years and I put my heart and soul into it. And I put 200 pages and I could have gone 500, but every day that happened, I learned something new. I'm like, I gotta change it. I gotta add this. But it has more mistakes. It's not what I did right.

It's what I did wrong. And I think that's really, really important. And for somebody to spend 10 or $20 on someone's lifetime of mistakes and really what they've learned through life, I just think you've heard, you hang out with five people, you're probably within 20% of their income and probably 20% of their happiness.

And when you read, it kind of pushes you to that outlier. It pushes you above everybody. And the one thing I attribute to success, if I was, and I'm not saying I'm super successful, I just think that pushed me out of my comfort zone is the fact that I read a lot and I enjoy it. And I underline and I write it up and I write pages. And then I write the synopsis of my own and then I read that. And reading is just, it really pushes you to the next level. And I feel like a lot of people don't read.

They say, I'm going to read this book. They've got all these books they're going to read. They've got a lot of notes. They never reflect on their notes. And what would you say to somebody to get them to push themselves out of their comfort zone and start to educate themselves. No matter what it is, if it's art, if it's playing the piano, that's knowledge. What's the old saying that readers are leaders and leaders are readers? I forget what that is.

I always say readers are leaders, but I don't know the rest of it. Well, Tommy, I'm originally from New Jersey where they eat their young, okay? So I've lived in Colorado for the last 15 years, so I'm kind of a mellow guy, but there's still plenty of Jersey in me. Is it okay with you in this conversation? And I'm totally okay with a yes, and I'm also okay with a no.

Is it okay with you in this conversation if I just kind of say it like it is? Is that all right? Absolutely. I'd love that. Cool. And because timid salespeople have skinny kids. So to sugarcoat it, if I were to sugarcoat something, I would be doing a disservice to your listeners. So let me answer your question with a pretty blunt answer. Kevin, how do we get people to get outside of their comfort zone and read more? You know, just ask them simple questions like, are you an intelligent human being?

And if they say, yes, I am, then say, explain to me how you're going to get really good at something without studying it. And they will be tongue-tied because you can't get really good at something without studying it or doing it over and over and over. That's delusional. So most people walking around are frigging delusional. Frigging, by the way, is a New Jersey term of endearment. It's not a swear. So what I do is I wake people up and I just tell them you know, if you don't want to read, then don't read, but don't complain to me when you're broke. Okay. You know, I'm not going to make you read. I'm also not going to drag your ass out of bed and make you do pushups. I'm going to encourage you to get out

of bed and do the pushups, but I'm not going to lose a second of sleep over whether you do it or not. But if you're telling me, you know, if somebody said to me, I don't want to read, I'd say, great. You know, if you think you're going to get in shape without exercising, you're an idiot. If you think you're going to take yourself to the next level, whatever that means in terms of success, without you putting in the time and the effort, and let's just be blunt, reading is not like running a 10 second, you 100-yard dash. We're not asking somebody to get on the floor and crank out 100 push-ups. We're asking them to read 15 minutes in a book. If a person is not willing to read 15 minutes per day in a book, they do not deserve success. So I'm a pretty simple guy. You tell me you want success. I will give you the most obese population in the universe.

And it's not a secret. Everybody says, well, I got sugar diabetes and I, you know, my genetics and my genes and blah, blah, blah. You don't work out, you eat McDonald's and you drink cola all day and you've never tried to watch your calories or, and you eat at night, you don't, you know, it's like, look, there's certain people that are always looking for the answer. They're always on the new diet, and it's no secret. It's not, and people always ask me, you know, I wish I could do this better like you,

and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I just say, look, it's not a secret. You know, I had a guy tell me he ran a 400-person call center. He sits me down, and at this point, he's 30 years older. This was 15 years ago. And he said, you know what makes me successful, Tommy? And I said, dude, I'm waiting.

I had my notepad out. I'm looking down, writing it down. He goes, I work my ass off. I work a lot of hours. And I try the best I could do every day. And I said, what's the secret? Where's the secret sauce? He said, there is no secret sauce. He gave you the secret. That was the secret. It was, it was. And you know what? I'm not married now. I don't have any kids.

I've never been married. And I think I have an affair with my job because I love walking in. I mean, I skip into work on Mondays and I do cartwheels on Fridays because I love Friday too. But, you know, there's no secret. And I come in on the weekend and I smile. Today, three people asked me, they said, why are you so happy? And I said, I'm happy because we're progressing. Things are great. And, you know, I told you, Kevin, next week I'm putting out a big speech and I'm a speaker of a big thing.

And I don't know. You can tell me if this is good or bad, but I'm starting out with telling them a little bit about me. And I'll give you a 60-second pitch and you can tell me. So the first 30 seconds, which is going to be five minutes, is, you know, my name is Tommy Mello. And a little bit about me is when I was seven, my parents got a divorce. My sister found a note on my dad's Z28 IROC. And my sister really grew up hating men. And, you know, my mom had to work three jobs. And the church was lucky enough to cover a couple of Christmases and our Thanksgiving dinner.

And, you know, it wasn't easy. I got a job when I was 12 washing dishes so I could buy the things I wanted. But that's one story. But let me tell you another story. My mom and dad were the most kind, loving people I've ever had. They skipped every other field trip. One of them was there. My dad was my soccer coach, my baseball coach, my wrestling coach. He taught me how to golf. My mom told me every day when she'd come home from her third job, how much she loved me. She still play with me. And I'll tell you one thing. I wouldn't have it any other way. They're my best friends to this day. And I have two stories. One of them is victim. One of them is how I really feel. And

I was successful having the best parents that could ever be. And that's how I believe I turned out okay. And doesn't that speak a lot to how people are? Well, yeah. Yeah, of course. And you're grateful. You don't take anything for granted. See, you mentioned earlier that we live in the most obese country in the world. And you're right, because a lot of Americans have become fat, dumb and happy. And it's not uncommon. I mean, it's a very work ethic of Americans in the 30s and the 40s and the 50s, and it was pretty darn strong. Consistently, you know, I'm sure there were plenty of lazy people, too. But, you know, when you look at immigrants, the first generation, you know, you've got people that come over here and open up 7-Elevens and dry cleaners or whatever. They're washing dishes in the back of a restaurant. And they'll work like 16 hours a day. They're just grateful that they have the opportunity to work. But then you look at the second, third generation and beyond, and it's a weird phenomenon because their parents work so hard, the kids don't have to work so hard, right? And they get lazier and then they get obese.

So I always tell people, if you want to succeed, just adopt your grandparents' work ethic. If you just do that, more than likely, you're probably going to knock it out of the park. And there's actually another side to that coin that as the country becomes more obese and as more and more people are looking for shortcuts to success, which don't exist by the way, the bar actually gets lower and lower and it becomes easier for people like you and I to succeed, Tommy. Now think about that. It sounds a little bit cynical. I'm not trying to be cynical. But as the bar gets set lower and lower, I truly believe that there's never been a better time or an easier time to truly succeed in America than now. Think about that. If you had a whole country full of

people with a crazy strong work ethic that were willing to just knock it out of the park, the bar would be set pretty high. But we're living in a time right now where the bar is getting set lower and lower and lower. And it's never been easier to differentiate yourself from all the walking dead. Does that make sense, Tommy? I love it. You got a big smile on my face right now. And I'm thinking to myself, I could listen to you all day. You should be a radio commenter or just your voice. So charismatic. And I really enjoy listening to you. I mean, uh, you're kind, I have a, I have a face for radio, but you're kind. So you are known as far as I know, you just, you've dominated on social media, LinkedIn, there's Facebook, Snapchat, Twitter.

There's all these different social medias, Instagram. And I could go on and on. And I've met a lot. Okay, this is a real story. I've met a lot of 20-year-olds that are making billions per month by telling their freaking story. And they do it so well on YouTube and social media and Facebook. And they've got so many followers and I've not broken the code yet but it sounds like you've got a really really good sense of

what's going on out there when it comes to these social networks can you let's dive into that and tell me what's what's the secret sauce if there is one well thank you first off, let me preface what I'm about to say with, although people think I'm a social media expert, I do not consider myself a social media expert. And that's not false humility. So let me explain what I mean. I don't care if we're talking about LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Pinterest, Snapchat, whatever it is. At the end of the day, it's not about understanding Facebook or LinkedIn. It's not about being an expert at LinkedIn. Becoming an expert at LinkedIn is like trying to become an expert at the transmission in your car. Because if you study the transmission in your car, that's not going to make you a better driver. So there's a lot of irony in this because people come to me every day and I get on my knees and I thank God, but they come to me every day and they say, show me how to use LinkedIn to grow my

business or show me how to use Facebook to grow my company or whatever. And they innocently think that if they have a deeper understanding of how the transmission in their car works, they're going to be a better driver. So I have to kind of wake them up a little bit. And I have to say, you think LinkedIn is going to help you grow your business. And I'm not denying that it will. I've helped my clients generate over $450 million in revenue and referrals using LinkedIn. I've generated for myself millions and millions

of dollars using LinkedIn, but it wasn't because I was a LinkedIn expert. It was because I am a conversation expert. Because if you have the communication skills of a rock, getting on LinkedIn isn't going to help you. Now you're just going to be a rock on LinkedIn. So the irony is that people think I need to study, you know, Instagram or whatever. No, you need to study communication skills like we were just talking about 10 minutes ago with how to win friends and influence people. Because if you get really good at how to win friends and influence people, it doesn't matter if we're talking about Instagram, LinkedIn, a telephone, smoke signals, carrier pigeons, because the communication tool is only as effective as the communication skills of the

person using the tool. Let me say that again. A communication tool is only as effective as the communication skills of the person using the tool. So if a person was Hannibal Lecter before they got on LinkedIn, now they're just Hannibal Lecter on LinkedIn. So what I'm really doing is I've been running around the world now for many years, teaching people, I'll teach you what you need to know about LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter, whatever. But more importantly, I'll teach you how to create, nurture, and deepen relationships. Because once you get that down, it doesn't matter what the next social media platform they invent is. So although I'm kind of recognized as an international LinkedIn expert, I'm the first

one that walks on stage and tells people, if I taught you how every electronic in your iPhone worked, that would not help your conversation skills. So I'll teach you what you want to know about LinkedIn. But more importantly, I'll teach you how to create know, like, trust. Because all things being equal, people will do business with and refer business to people they know, like, and trust. So it's really about creating know, like, trust regardless of the platform, LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter, face-to-face, telephone, email. Does that make sense, Tommy? 100%. I'm following you loud and clear. Yeah. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't learn how to use the basic features of LinkedIn. So it's just like, if you're a good driver

and somebody throws you the keys to a Lamborghini you're gonna have some fun with that Lambo but if you're not a good driver they throw you the keys to a Lambo you don't know what to do with it you haven't you're gonna crash it right so I always always always all day all night I'm telling my audiences and my private clients, I'll teach you what you want to know about the platform, the communication tool. But more importantly, let's focus our attention on the communication, not the communication tool. Yeah. Wow. That's amazing.

And it's amazingly simple, isn't it? It's so obvious once you see it but until you see it it's like this obscure thing but it's really once you see it you're like holy crap why am I worried about becoming a social media expert I'm not spending any time studying my transmission why am I going to spend time studying LinkedIn right yeah you're right it's good to know how the tool works but it's really you, when I think about it, you know, I don't even know really. I just downloaded Snapchat trying to figure the damn thing out. And I'm sure there's some logistical things to know, but at the end of the day, I look at people out there that are killing it just, but here's the best thing about it is people are attracted to people that are similar to them.

So when I told the story about my mom and dad getting a divorce, I think people relate to that. And, you know, when I now I'm A-list in Southwest, but I used to be C, which stands for center, because I always was a center seat. I'd go to the way back and people relate to that stuff. And I think it's really important to connect to people, especially when you're doing Facebook Live and things like that. I don't always say, look, I'm a millionaire. I just bought a new car. Check this thing out. And I think a lot of people do that. They give this perceived notion. And it's not bad to say what you have. But more importantly, I think it's to say today didn't go as planned. And let me tell you what I mean by that. I had a guy quit on me who's been with me for a long time. And I had another guy get in a car accident. Thank God he's safe. But I think people, they love drama. And I just don't think it's real when somebody goes online and they give this perceived notion. Every millionaire I know that fakes it on Facebook, like literally there's guys, look, I don't want to mention any names, but the biggest, most successful networks on the planet. And I could say a lot of names,

but I'm not going to go into it. But I've dealt with these guys. I've sat down with them and I've been with them for a day and understand that their life is not what people perceive. It's not so great. It's not all strawberries and you know what I mean? And here's the thing. You know, my goal is to do $100 million by 2021 just for my garage door company. But I'm going to tell you this, the day I walk in, there's going to be a new set of problems. It's the same set of problems when I was under a million. It's the same set of problems I have today. There's a new set of problems, but there's no such thing. We all have problems. It's not that easy. I've just done a better job of delegating and creating leaders. I mean, I've

created a lot of leaders and they've helped themselves. Don't get me wrong, but I realized a long time ago, I'm not going to do this by myself. That's not even fun. You know? Yeah. And what you're pointing at right now, Tommy, is just another way of pointing at what we started the conversation with, which when I said people don't understand principles, you just described in the last 90 seconds that regardless of whether you make millions or whether you don't make millions, regardless of what, at the end of the day, the principles behind success are never going to change. And just because you drive a Mercedes and you have a Rolex doesn't mean you're not going to have crap in your life. So most people that are walking around on this planet are completely delusional about how life really works. Now, I'm not trying to sound like an enlightened Buddha because I'm not. I got my own issues. But the fact that people chase shortcuts is all the evidence you need to prove that they don't understand how life

works because there is no shortcut. The shortcut is get up early, work your ass off, and go to bed tired. That's the shortcut. The fact that somebody would even look for a shortcut is like them holding up a sign saying, I have absolutely no idea how life works. So most people chase strategies and techniques. Now, there's a time and a place for strategies and techniques, but you don't really need to rely on strategies and techniques very much if you understand the principles behind how something works. So most people innocently get tricked into follow this social media guru or internet superstar and do what they do. And because they don't understand the basic principles of success, get up early, work your ass off, go to bed tired, they innocently think that, oh, I'll just do what this person with

5 million followers on YouTube. No, no, no. Just study success principles and focus on that. Don't focus on the flavor of the month. Was that too strong, Tommy, or does that make sense? You're just nailing it every single time. It's so simple too. That's the thing is people want this. They come in and I had a guy shadow me this week, Monday and Tuesday, all day. And when he left, he just said, he looked at me and said, man, I mean, I have some pretty intricate conversations. I'm talking about software. I'm talking about scraping emails and API connections and process flow charts. And he goes, but you know what I noticed? It's just the way you connect with everybody. Like you actually just, you're fun.

And I walk into the meeting and I always like, look, the thing is, I don't care how much money I have. I don't care. Look, I've never been to India, but I've been to South America. I've been to a lot of countries. I've been to China. And what I noticed is a lot of these people, they might not have money, but they're genuinely happy. They're smiling all the time. It's amazing that people think that money is the cure-all. I'll tell you what, money for me gives me a lot of choices. And I've always said, I want to do what I want to do, when I want to do it with whoever the hell I want to do it with. And money gives me the opportunity to do that. But at the end of the day, if I'm not happy today, what makes me think I'm going to be happy tomorrow? And happiness is very, very important. And actually, I try to pour happiness wherever I

go. And what I find is sales follow, money follows, everything follows happiness. And I'm genuinely interested in people. And I can't teach that. I just tell my, I tell everybody that I work around, my coworkers, I say, find something you have in common and don't pretend because I can see through it a mile away. If you don't like cats, then don't pet the damn cat. You're right. You're a million percent right. The fact that you would want to pet the cat when you don't want to pet the cat is showing that if a person is thinking that, it's showing that they're willing to use insincerity to try to become likable. It would be much more likable to just say to the homeowner, I'm really not into cats, but that's a beautiful cat.

Absolutely. Because here's what will happen is the husband says, I freaking hate cats. Yeah, that's exactly right. So why do people look for shortcuts? Why do people lie? Why do people manipulate? The reason why is because they're not comfortable with who they are to begin with. Now, we're going pretty deep down the rabbit hole here for a couple seconds. The more people are comfortable with who they are,

I don't mean that in an egotistic way, but the more comfortable that people are with themselves, then other people will also be more comfortable with them too. So people will chase techniques and strategies, like I mentioned a few minutes ago, to try to alter something about themselves instead of just becoming relaxed with themselves. So the statement, all things being equal, people will do business with and refer business to people they know, like, and trust, you and I are living proof of that. But we didn't try to become knowable, likable, and trustable as a strategy or a technique or some reverse psychology move. We just realized that we're in the people business. Whether you're installing garage doors, whether you're a landscaper, lumberjack, dolphin trainer, I don't care what the hell you do. By the way, gravity doesn't

care what you do either because gravity is a principle, right? So gravity works the same for a lumberjack as it works for a garage door install because it's a principle. Once we deepen our understanding of the principles behind effective human communication, Literally, the sky is the limit. If you want to make money, make a boatload of money. But people will chase things thinking that it will bring them happiness. It won't. If money brought you happiness, no millionaires would ever kill themselves. Millionaires kill themselves every day.

I'm not putting down money. Money's great. And I'm in the same exact agreement that you are i look at money as options that's all it is money creates options but money does not make happiness in the beginning you tried to pronounce that joie de vivre i call my coaching joie de vivre coach joie de vivre is french for art or joy of living. And we innocently get tricked into thinking this new car is going to make me happy. And it will for about three months. And we think this new spouse is going to make me happy. And they will for a little while. But true happiness never,

ever comes from an external situation or circumstance. Never. Not long lasting happiness. I believe that happiness is our natural state, except for when we innocently believe our thinking. I'll give you an example. Before we got on the call, you told me I'm used to speaking to hundreds of people. Next week, I got to talk for a couple thousand people. And what most people would say is, you know, I'm a little nervous. And I gave you a very quick answer to that when I asked you before we even started the interview, what's the difference between speaking to three people and 3,000 people? And the real answer is there's no difference. It's still you opening your mouth. The only thing that's different is your mind is playing games with you and trying to convince you that there's some difference between 3,000 people and three people.

There's no difference. You're still the same person with the same mouth that's going to open your mouth. But the only thing that happens is your mind is innocently tricking you into thinking that there's a difference between three people and 3,000 people. There is no difference. Does that make sense conceptually, Tommy? Yeah. Well, everybody's going to be naked in the audience in my eyes, so that'll make me feel better. Well, I always look at the, you know, whether I'm talking to one person or a million people, I'm always looking at people like they're naked, you know, but I'm just a weird guy. But, you know, the mind, and I know this probably wasn't where we intended to go with this conversation,

but most people do not understand how their own mind works because we're not taught that. We're taught things like the Pythagorean theorem and what's the capital of Liechtenstein. What good is that going to do you? But we should be taught from a young age how the mind works. We should be taught to read things like How to Win Friends and Influence People and Think and Get Rich by Napoleon Hill, because those books teach how the mind works. Once you understand that, then whether you're in garage doors, whether you're, you know, I don't care what you do for a living. Neither does gravity. Gravity doesn't care what you do for a living.

Whatever it is you do, the more you deepen your understanding of how the mind works, which is very simple, by the way. It's not complex. People make it way more complex than it needs to be. The more you deeply understand how your mind works and how to get along with other people, you couldn't help but become successful. If you tried not to become successful, you couldn't do it become successful if you tried not to become successful you couldn't do it it would be impossible it would be like going to the gym three times a week eating correctly and getting the right amount of sleep and saying to yourself i don't want to get

healthy sorry you're gonna get healthy because you're doing the things that lead to health this is simple this is not Well, people come to me, Kevin, I want to be more successful in my business. Well, great. Let's study the success principles and let's study people skills. Kevin, I want to make a lot of money as a garage door guy. Great. Learn as much as you can about garage doors, but please understand that your success in the garage door business is not going to come down to your garage door knowledge. Now, that shocks people when I say that to them initially. Your success in your chosen profession is not going to come down to the technical knowledge of your chosen profession.

If that were true, then everybody that's an expert at something would be rich. Just look at how obvious what I'm saying is. So I'm not saying don't learn a lot about garage doors. No, learn as much as you can, but don't be fooled into thinking that that's going to make you successful. What's going to make you successful is your ability to sincerely and authentically connect with other people and build know, like, trust. And people miss that. They just innocently miss it, and it's right in front of their face.

You know, as we're talking about this, I think about a year and a half ago, I learned a phrase. It's five letters. It's called WIFM, what's in it for me. Yeah. And W-I-I-F-M, it's my favorite radio station. Yep.

But what I learned about is to start thinking what's in it for them. And yes, what it does, it completely changed everything. I started writing my ads. When I hire people, I used to tell them, I used to think about everything that I give. I said, we do lunch on Fridays. We've got employee of the month. We do this, we do this, we do this. We're going to grow you. We're going to put a lot of money into training you. We're going to give you a career versus a job. We can't wait to get you on board. By the way, we do garage doors.

That was the last thing at the end of it. And you know what happened is we used to get 10 applicants a week. Now we get 500. And it's crazy. It's crazy when you start thinking. And I talked to my managers and I go, you know, we got sued the other day because there's another A1 garage in Colorado. And my manager got so mad. And I said, I would do the exact same thing. Let's think about this from his perspective. And I said, don't get mad. Let's think about a win-win

here. Let's think about how to make him win. And it's so funny when you start thinking like that. You know, when people ask me if the cup's half empty or half full, I said, it depends if it started empty or started full, because if it started full, then it's half empty when you empty it. But the thing is, it's just a whole different mindset. It's a whole different way of thinking. And when you could truly think of a win-win, life is just that much better, isn't it? Of course it is. Because by definition, if it's not a win-win, somebody loses. So I will not get into any kind of personal or professional relationship unless it's a win-win relationship. Because anything you enter into that isn't win-win is not long-term. Because by definition, there's a lose. And what most people do is they look at business and sales

as a win-lose game. That is not smart. That is not smart. What you just said is incredibly smart and incredibly simple. Because simple is always smart. Complex is usually stupid. So matter of fact, for me, I've come to a point in my life and I can only speak for me in any area of my life, spiritual, financial relationships, physical, whatever, in any area of my life where I'm trying to work on some kind of a problem or solve something, the way it looks to me, Tommy, is complexity is nothing more than an indication that I'm looking in the wrong direction. That's all it is. Whenever I look at something and it appears complex, I say to myself, there has to be a simpler solution. Because life really isn't

all that hard. We make it hard by innocently believing thoughts that aren't true, which I touched on a few minutes ago. But life is pretty simple. You and I are sitting here right now having a conversation. Your hair is growing. my hair is growing, blood is flowing through our veins, and we're not even thinking about it. So life itself is taking care of itself. But then we get involved with our head and we start buying into lies like life is difficult and success is hard. No, failure is hard. You want to know what's hard? Not being able to pay your bills when you're in your 40s, 50s, 60s, failure is hard. You want to know what's hard? Not being able to pay your

bills when you're in your 40s, 50s, 60s, or 70s. You want to know what's easy? Getting up a little earlier, studying your chosen profession, focusing on your people skills, delivering massive value, have a glass of wine, go to bed. Now, that's the way to live. But people, the fact that somebody would be looking for a shortcut is the evidence that that person does not understand how life works. So this conversation today, I'm enjoying it. It's a little more philosophical than I initially thought we would have, but that's totally fine. But it's a practical philosophy. It's not an abstract pie in the sky. It's highly practical. Get good at your chosen profession, but spend most of your mental ability figuring out how to become more knowable, likable, and trustable. Once you get that down, you won't be able to spend

the money. There's a lot of people listen to this podcast. I get really, really the smartest, best, amazing people on here. And you're one of them. And we could go into all the semantics and technology and strategy and tactics. But I got a lot more out of this than that. And I think I've answered all the questions I had for you on here. I mean, the fact is that it's very, very simple. I love that there's a thing called KISS, and I'm sure you're aware of it. Keep it simple, Simon. I switched to Simon there because I don't like to call people stupid, but you're right. And, you know, we could go and we could take a deep dive, and obviously you're a busy guy, but I just love the simplicity of it. And sometimes we hear all these things that we have to do and you got to do this to be successful, but really

if you want it bad enough and you know, Simon Sinek talks about finding your why. And I'm afraid that a lot of people's why is because they don't want to work for someone else. And there's, that's not a deep enough reason to go into business because I talk to people every day, Kevin, every single day. And they say, I just wanted to be in business because I hated working for somebody else. And I said, that's not big enough. I said, go back to work for somebody because you're going to kill yourself because this isn't for the faint at heart. You're going to go into debt, you're going to owe a lot of taxes. And if that's the only reason you wanted this, then go get a nine to five and put your work jacket off when you get home. See,

I love working at night. I love jumping on the phone and it's almost a sickness how much I love it, but I love it. And you can't teach people to love what they do. You just got to do it. Well, I think you just nailed it right there. And I shared a stage with Simon a couple of years ago. Simon's in Vegas. Great guy. Nice guy. And can I focus on the last probably 10 seconds of what you just said there? Yes. the universe. You just said something at the end of your statement that was profound. You just said, find what you like to do. Now, we're not taught that as a society. We're taught, hey, there's a lot of money in this, go chase that. That is the complete opposite of find what you like to do. So that's chasing a strategy or a technique instead of just saying,

wait a minute, hold on. Every human being has some kind of gift and talent. There's no denying that. I'm not trying to be Pollyanna, woo-woo, sit around a crystal and hum here. But there's nobody walking this planet that isn't good at something. So what most people don't do is they don't take a little bit of time to just ask themselves, what do I really enjoy doing? Enjoy doing more than likely you're probably pretty good at it. We tend not to be really good at things we suck doing. Right. So if we think about something So if we think about something that we enjoy, more than likely, we're probably pretty good at it and we can get better at it. And more than likely, what you enjoy is something that somebody else doesn't enjoy.

It's not that difficult to figure out how do I monetize what it is I'm good at? Again, not in a slick, salesy, awkward, creepy, what do I got to do to get you in this car today kind of way. But if you just figure out how to monetize what it is you're good at, and then present it to people that would benefit from your expertise at that, life just becomes a whole... You're not happy because you make a lot of money in the garage door business. Happiness is your natural state. You've just figured out a way to do something you enjoy doing, which is being an entrepreneur, but you're not attributing your happiness to that. You were happy before you were an entrepreneur. The entrepreneurial thing is in alignment with your natural happiness. I'm aware

that that probably sounded pretty woo-woo, but did that make sense, Tommy? Yeah, it does. And people say you're so lucky that you found garage doors. And I throw me in the middle of Antarctica and I'll love the snow. I mean, I don't do garage doors. I was out with a couple of managers last night and I said, man, I just love it because we just happen to be in the garage door business. But we focus on key performance indicators and happiness and solving people problems. And I'm a people guy. I mean, I love garage doors. I was out in the field. I used to run seven jobs a day. I mean, I used to do it. But the best thing about garage doors is I won every single day. If a bad experience happened, I'd say, well, guess what? The next customer is going to be fun. We're going to have some fun. I mean, I got dinners. I played ping pong pool. I got snowboards given to me. I mean, one of my good, one of the employees that

I hang out with a lot, he got a motorcycle as a tip last week. It's just fun. It's fun for me. And I think if you love people, but you know what? A lot of people don't love people and they can't learn to love people and that's fine. But what is it? I don't know the secret sauce to starting to love people. Some people hate it. Some people want to live on their phones and social media and they don't have friends. They've got a million friends online, but I don't know what it is. Well, we actually touched on it about 30 minutes ago. People that don't love other people don't love themselves. Now, they would argue with you. They would argue with you and say, yes, I do. Oh, really? Where's the evidence? You think hating other people is a way to love yourself?

I mean, think of the stupidity of that. People don't understand themselves. Therefore, they don't understand others. Now that sounds deep, like the Dalai Lama, but it's so ridiculous. It's so simple. It's so simple. It makes a lot of sense. And I think we're relating. Look, this is a home service podcast, but this is what this, you know, I got philosophical. There's a good book called The Ultimate Sales Machine by Chet Holmes.

And I call it the Red Bible. I learned a lot from it. And Amanda Holmes, unfortunately, Chet Holmes died. And Amanda took over the business when she was in her early 20s. And we got on a podcast and she was straight philosophical. She goes, this isn't the way it was planned. And I was at a big convention three weeks ago. And I had a dozen people walk up to me and say, that was my favorite one.

They said, it wasn't all salesy and strategy. And they said, we got so much out of that. And I feel like this is one of those podcasts where you have a lot of knowledge. And trust me, I'm sure you're going to get a lot of people saying, I want to work with you because it's so simple. But you've got a lot of LinkedIn strategies. But more importantly, you're just a real human being. And people want to do this with great people that just they could connect with.

And I can tell you this, we've made a joke about this earlier. You said, is this five or six hours? I could go all day. And, uh, I really can't, it's because I like you and I genuinely, like literally I'm going to reach out and try to come and visit you because here's the thing. I jump on a plane every single week and I go out and visit with the people I want to be around. And it might sound crazy, but most people, I say, just go visit a shop around you

that uses the same software and learn from them and smile. And guess what will happen? We'll get business. It's amazing. Yeah. Yeah, it's not complicated. Success isn't complicated. Again, complexity is an indication that you're

looking in the wrong direction. Success is simple. You know, Kevin, I've had these consultants that come in and they tell me all this stuff. And there's certain things that are pretty simple, right? You need to make a profit to stay in business. But consultants make things so complicated. I had a guy call me yesterday, landscaping company. He said, Tommy, I got six crews, three guys in each crew. He said, I'm working 80 hours a week and I'm not really turning a profit. And it was very simple what I told him. I said, I have a similar business. I have a Christmas light business. I said, double your prices, get rid of 40% of your customers and start giving your guys performance pay. They get done faster, make it more effective and make a win-win for them.

They'll make more money than they ever made, but now they've got a reason to win. And he, I mean, it was an eight minute conversation and he goes, oh my God. You reminded him that every human being has invisibly tattooed on their forehead, W-I-I-F-N, what's in it for me. That's what you did. You reminded him that every human being that you come across has what's in it for me. So when you just said performance pay, the person that doesn't want the performance pay, they're not a bad person. They're just in the wrong profession. So you're going to naturally weed out the you know the lazy people that should be you know get a job that asks you if you want fries with that but the guys and the gals that are willing

to get up early work their ass off and get paid well for it they're gonna they're gonna come like moths to a flame to come work for that company right you know here's the thing, Kevin, I can't end with just one episode of me and you. So if you would do this for me, you're going to get a little more tactical on the nextizer. I love it. Because on this one, we got people to understand the right mindset. The mindset is complexity is not the answer. Simplicity is the answer. And if you're not willing to do the work, then just get out of the industry and go ask people if they want fries with that. Now that people understand that, anything that I would answer in regards to LinkedIn or something like that will make more sense. Yeah. So we are going to schedule a number two,

and I'm telling you, what part of Colorado are you in? I'm just outside of Denver, but only for the next 10 days. Actually, 10 days from today, I'm moving to a little tiny village on the Oregon coast with a population of about 300 people, not even a traffic light, not even a gas station. So there's a long backstory on that. I'm going through a brutal divorce right now. It's a train wreck, but I've been wanting to live on the Oregon coast for many years and I'm actually leaving in 10 days. Well, that sounds a little more intimate. That's where I shall be to visit you. So the usual way that I end these, which we'll do is I always ask the top three books. And obviously

the one is influence friends and well, how to win friends and influence people, but give me three books. And then, and then also right after that, I want you to tell everybody on here how to get a hold of you, the website, if you want to give out maybe your LinkedIn and just how they could connect with you. Yeah, thank you. So three books off the top of my head that anybody that wants to succeed in life, notice I didn't say sales because it's about life. If you're going to learn success principles, they're going to work in sales. They're going to work in anything you do because like gravity, it works everywhere. Three books that people should not read. Three books that people should study. Number one, How to Win Friends and Influence

People by Dale Carnegie. Number two, Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill. Number three, Endless Referrals by Bob Berg, B-U-R-G. Those three books, if you're listening to my voice right now, people in the future listening to the podcast recording, go get those books, but do not read them. Study them. And then to answer Tommy's polite question about how to contact me, I'm very easy to find. I'm no longer in the Witness Relocation Program.

If you type Kevin Knebel, K-N-E-B-L, could I please buy another vowel? If you type Kevin Knebel into Google, you'll find me all over the place. But you can connect with me on LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Pinterest. You can go to kevinknebel.com and sign up for my free newsletter. I'm definitely not inaccessible. I'm always a phone call or an email away. If you follow me on LinkedIn, I'll follow you back. Same thing with Facebook, the other one. So I'm easy to find. And Tommy, I'm really looking forward to our second conversation where maybe we get into

some of the nuts and bolts behind how to use something like LinkedIn in 15 minutes per day to grow your business. Yeah. And we will. We'll definitely, I mean, I'm going to go talk to Bree. She works with me one-on-one. So we'll set the second one up. And the last thing I do, Kevin, every time is I'll give you the floor to give the listeners a final thought and something to kind of take away and start today with. Here's the final thought, which would be the same thought that we started with. The most important thing that anyone hearing my voice needs to understand right now is this. All things being equal, people will do business with and refer business to people who they know, like, and trust. So deepen your understanding of your chosen profession, but spend twice as much time deepening your understanding of how you operate and how you

tick. Because the more you understand how you tick, the more relatable you're going to be to other people. So focus on people skills. That would be my final thought, Tom. Well, Kevin, I will be in communication with you and I appreciate this. This is one of the best podcasts and this is just one of the best learning experience. I'm telling you, I've read the first two books, but I'm going to buy Endless Referrals via Audible and I'm going to buy it via Amazon right now. And we'll set it up in 10 days, you'll be in a little village in Oregon. And I will, if you'll allow me to, probably let you settle in for a while. But before the end of

this year, we will meet in person. How does that sound? If you will allow me. I would love it. Have you ever been to the Oregon coast? No. It is one of the most mind-bogglingly beautiful places in America. And most Americans don't even know it. So if you go on Google, go on Google, type in Oregon Coast, hit images, and get ready to have your mind blown. That's where I'm going. And I would love for you to come visit. Yeah. I'm in. Well, Kevin, I appreciate you coming on. This has been a world of knowledge for me. And I'm sure the listeners, you're going to get a lot of hits, a lot of hits on Instagram. Well, and that's fine. Anybody that wants to interact with me, I'm happy to do that.

And I appreciate Tommy. It's been a blessing to be asked to be interviewed by you. You're a good man. And I can't wait till we cross paths and face to face in person. All right, my friend. Well, we'll talk soon and appreciate it once more. God bless, brother. Rock on. All right. Thanks. Hey, guys, I really appreciate you tuning into the podcast. I want to let you know that my book is available right now on Amazon. It's called The Home Service Millionaire. That's homeservicemillionaire.com. Just go to the website. It'll show you exactly where and how to buy the book. I poured two years of knowledge into this book and I had 12 contributors. Everybody from the COO

at HomeAdvisor to the CEO of Valpak and of course, Ara, the CEO of Service Titan. It tells you how to have the right mindset and become a millionaire and think like a millionaire. It goes into exactly how to turn on lead generation. Have those phones ringing off the hook for the customers that you want to be calling, where you can make money and get great reviews. It also goes into simple things like how to attract A players.

Listen, if you want a great apple pie, you need to buy good apples and you need to know where to buy those apples. And it also talks about simple things like knowing how to keep the score. You should have your financial check every week. You should know exactly what's coming in and out of your account. You should know when to cut advertising that's not working. And more than anything, you should know how to cut employees that aren't making it for you. Listen, you might

have a big heart, but this book is going to show you how to make decisions built on numbers. I hope you pick up the book and I really appreciate everything. I hope you're having a great day. Tune in next week. Thank you.