The Home Service Expert Podcast - Using an Offline + Online Combination Approach to Win Over Your Customers

Episode Date: April 7, 2020

Dan Antonelli is the president and chief creative officer of New Jersey advertising agency KickCharge Creative, a company that specializes in helping brands redefine themselves and stand out in all the right ways. He is an expert in graphic design and brand marketing who has worked on nearly 400 HVAC brands throughout his journey as an artist, which started when he was just 14 years old. He is also the author of Building a Big Small Business Brand, a critically acclaimed playbook for anything and everything about branding. In this episode, we talked about branding, SEO, marketing, disruption, design...

And that's the thing, Tommy, too, is you have so many guys, to me, I'm blessed that the people that we do work for, all of them are providing a great service. The problem is, is that so many of them don't look like they're providing a great service. So when you could marry up the deliverable with the perception, that's when you hit a home run, right? I can do everything. I can make any company look as amazing as top shelf everything. But when you go ring that doorbell, it's on you at that point. I can't control what happens after you ring the doorbell, but I can control everything that happens before that point. And I can get them to believe that you are the best in your area and that you provide a great service. So when you marry up providing a great service with having a premium brand expectation, well, then again, that's when it's a home run. That's when you can get the dollars that you're providing a great service with having a premium brand expectation, well then again, that's when it's a home run. That's when you can get the dollars that you're trying to get. You see guys hit wall and they're like, I can't get those dollars here. I can't sell it for that much. No one's going to pay that much here. Well, you know what? Have you looked at what you're

putting out on the street? Maybe that's part of the problem as to why you can't get the dollars you're trying to get because you don't look like you deserve to get those dollars. Welcome to the Home Service Expert, where each week, Tommy chats with world-class entrepreneurs and experts in various fields like marketing, sales, hiring, and leadership to find out what's really behind their success in business. Now, your host, the home service millionaire, Tommy Mello. All right, guys, listen, this is an awesome podcast with Dan Antonelli. He owns a company called Kick Charge Creative, and we discuss everything you need to do to create a brand, from your truck wraps, your website, to your advertising. And a brand is the first thing that you need to think about. You need to get your vehicles wrapped. You need to have a website that kicks butt.

And you need to send people a message that says, we're different. We're not the cheapest in town. We are a brand. And it's really, really powerful. The one thing I want you guys to think about, though, as you're listening to me and Dan go through this is take action. Do something about your brand. It took me months to make a decision that when I started working with Dan and I finally bit the bullet and just paid him to do everything he did. And the results are staggering. I don't make any money from telling you guys this, but this guy is the real deal. He puts out amazing things.

You need to listen to this podcast and you puts out amazing things. You need to listen to this podcast and you need to take action. You need to get a hold of him. Thank you so much for listening. I really appreciate it. And we'll go ahead and get started. Welcome back to the Home Service Expert. My name is Tommy Mello. And today I have Dan Antonelli on the line. Let me tell you a little bit about Dan. He's an expert, a true expert in graphic design, advertising, web design, brand development, and content marketing. He owns a company called Kick Charge Creative, where he's the CEO and the president. Started that out in 95. And Hip Health Plan, manager and creative services before that. I can tell you that he really does all the big brands in

home service. I've seen him do so many things over the years. I've got his book here, Building a Big Small Business Brand, How to Turn Your Brand into the Most Valuable Asset. His firm completed well over 700 websites and over 1,000 logos and brands designed worldwide. The reason I got introduced to Dan is because I started calling people and I said, I need to get someone to help me with my rap. I had a business coach, actually, Al Levy say, I don't like your rap. It's not good. And what he told me to do is view it in black and white and see if the name pops out at you and make it simple. So he told me about Dan. And then I, Ken Goodrich with Gettle told me about Dan.

And everywhere I went, I kept hearing, Dan Antonelli, you got to go see this guy. And Dan's here with us. So Dan, thanks for coming on today. Thanks for having me here, brother. I've probably had 10 different designs over the years. In years, I thought my old one was decent. Like we got a lot of raving reviews about it.

It was cool. People recognized my face. And now I hate it when it's next to the new one you designed. And you clean it up. You made the logo nicer. It's crisp. And everybody knows what we do. And, you know, I have my own wrap company.

So when people come there and literally they go, I want that same color scheme. And they really love it. So you people come there and literally they go, I want that same color scheme and they really love it. So you did great for me. And I just think wraps are super important, creating a logo, creating consistency throughout your company. So tell me a little bit about you. You've been to Kick Charge for a long time now, creative. Tell us about kind of how you got going into that and you know, just tell us your life of how you got going into that and you know just tell us your life story and what you're up to sure yeah i mean i started kick charge 25 years ago so this is actually our 25th year so that's kind of cool to really be doing something that i'm so passionate

about even 25 years later but even going before i started the company i actually lettered hand lettered my first truck when I was 15 years old. I just found pictures of it the other day. It's so funny seeing this old hand-lettering that I was doing. But I was always really into lettering. I used to do a lot of hand-painted pinstriping. And I really wanted to be a sign painter when I grew up. And my parents were like, you can't be a sign painter, dude.

You got to go to college and stuff like that. So I was like, all right, I'll go to college. And I wound up going to college and studying advertising. And when I graduated, I was working in New York City as a graphic designer, and I really missed working with small businesses and working with them on their signs and their trucks. And then we started doing websites and things like that. So I started the company while I was working full time, like so many businesses do do, you know, they have two jobs, they have kind of their day job and their, their side hustle. And eventually just had enough work after about a year to, you know, quit my job in New York city and then just go full time into doing it. But you know,

the deal, Tommy, like how crazy it gets when you're, you're trying to do two things and build up enough work. And the first year or so, I mean, I was doing 90, 100, 110 hours. It was ridiculous. It was just insane. And the people that I worked for were so cool. They didn't want me to leave. And they gave me my own office with the door. So half the times I was running my own company while I was there, but I just couldn't do it. I'm like, I know what, I got to go out and do my own thing. And I just thought the concept of working with small businesses and making sure that everything that they put out on the street was consistent was something that I didn't see anybody else doing. So I've been really into logos and really obsessed with the idea of how important logos

are to small businesses. And I wrote a couple of books on it. My first book was in 1997 on small business branding. And I just always believe so much in how critical it is to get the brand done. And then everything else just works so much better for that business. So it's been quite a ride. And we do such great work. I have a great team here. We have about 20 people here now today. And we do everything. So we do branding, and we do such great work. I have a great team here. We have about 20 people here now today and we do everything. So we do branding and we do digital marketing and we do traditional graphic design

and print ads and all that other stuff. So it's just really cool when you can really change the course of a business and you can shape the way that they're viewed and create a unique brand story. And we look at the work that we do as changing lives, and that's how I view every brand that we create is the impact that it creates. You look at the work that we did for Ken at Gettle when we rebranded him. And at the time,

I think he was $7 or $8 million with maybe 40 employees. And now they're like 100 million with 500 employees. So it's so critical, our task and that responsibility that we have. And that's what I love about what we do is that we're doing a task that is so important for their success. And I just love it when we see the results and we see how much our work impacts those businesses. I'll tell you what, I was just at an event in Mexico less than two weeks ago, and we were sitting at a table with about 15 people total. So about seven companies, because a lot of people had their wives or their managers with them. And they said, what do you guys do with your wraps? And most of the companies didn't have wraps. And there was two companies that just did the lettering. Tell me a little bit about that because people say, is it really worth the wrap?

And it only lasts three to five years. And I'm like, it's the best investment I've ever made. And I'm not going to talk to you about wrapping vehicles, but this is, it's huge for me. That's just, that's the biggest thing I see. The mistake is people say say I see your trucks everywhere All the impressions I get with over 100 of those on the road. Yeah, I mean it's free billboards, you know It's nuts and and guys get hung up on the cost and you're just like seriously, dude Like do you know how much it would cost for you to buy a billboard and get?

Maybe even fewer impressions. You've got this thing working 24 7 anytime that vehicle is out there, it's communicating your brand. So dollar for dollar, there isn't another advertising vehicle that is more cost-effective than truck wraps. It's not even close. You look at billboards, you look at PPC, you look at anything, nothing comes close to the lowest cost per impression as a truck wrap. The problem is though, Tommy, so now you say, okay, well, I got to get a truck wrap, right? Because that's going to be so great for my business. The problem is, is most of the truck wraps that you see on the road today are actually a waste of money. And that sounds like, well,

that sounds weird, right? You just said it's so great. Well, it is great when it's actually effective and it's designed properly. The problem is is great when it's actually effective and it's designed properly. The problem is, is most of the ones you see on the road are just total train wrecks. They don't communicate a brand promise. You can't tell what company it's for. And it's sad because I know how much those things cost. And then you see the guy's got five of them and he thinks they're awesome, right? But the problem is, is it's not communicating the right message. So it's not just a matter of saying, well, I'm going to wrap my truck. It's a matter of making sure that every impression that that truck wrap is delivering is performing the task in which it's designed for. And that's where you

see a lot of guys just totally missed the mark. Yeah, you're absolutely right. And so many people, they have pride because they designed it. They had an influence in it. And I was talking to one of the guys that works at the design shop and I'm like you need to kind of lead them down the path like with with me and you i just said hey i guess i used to have my face on the side and you said we're gonna do a stenciled character and you made it work for me with the wrench in my hand but most people don't have a clue and they come in with all these ideas and And sometimes they redo it 10 times. And I'm like, you got to give them, tell them what you like and tell them why they should do it this way. I saw one rap that we designed because the guy wanted everything he offers in his air conditioning company, duct cleaning, blah, blah, blah, blah,

blah. And I'm like, holy cow. Yeah, It's not a yellow paper. You do all this stuff. What's your advice on that? Well, I mean, there's two things that you just said, right? You said one thing about designing something and finding out what they like. Listen, we've done probably, I mean, at HVAC alone, I think we've done three or 400 HVAC brands, I think, so far. And one of the things I tell any business, service business, whatever, is I want feedback from the client about what they like, because that'll help steer the creative. But at the end of the day, I'm not really that interested specifically in what you like. I am more interested in who you are selling to and what they like. And that's the part where guys don't get it. They're like, oh, I really love something really cool. And I want this grunge thing, or I want something that's really racy. Because my buddies,

they think it'll be cool. And I'm like, dude, listen, who are we selling to? Are we selling to your buddies and you? Or are we selling to Mrs. Smith? She's age 45. She's got two kids. She's got a BMW in the garage. Who are we really selling to? And making sure that we're designing something that meets those objectives first. And not only just the objectives about who we're selling to, but also assessing what is happening in that market and what do those brands look like that you were competing against? If you've got five other competitors in your space and they're all using red and blue, well, guess what? You're not getting red and blue from me. It's not going to happen. I don't care how much you like red and blue. It's not going to be disruptive. It's not going to

stand out. So those are all parts of what goes into figuring out what actually is going to function well in your space and what appeals to the target audience that we're trying to attract with our brand. So I've seen this company, I forget the name of them, but they had pink trucks. And yeah, they stood out, but that to me, I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing. They wanted to stand out. What are your take on that? So it's absolutely a good point.

And that's when some guys, when I tell them, okay, well, we got to rebrand. They're like, well, everyone says they see my trucks all the time. I'm like, well, that's great that they see your trucks. Awesome, right? But that's only a small part of the equation. The more important question is, is what do your trucks say about your business? That's where they don't get it, right? So yeah, we can make your trucks pink and purple and people say they see them all day long,

but what does it say about your company? Me as the consumer, right? I'm going to call up this company with this pink and purple trucks, right? What do I think I'm actually going to get as a deliverable? And that's where they miss, right? So standing out is only part of it. It's more about delivering a brand promise that will tell them an expectation of that deliverable, right? Okay, I'm going to call up this company. I saw their van. What do I think is going to happen when they ring my doorbell? What do I think I'm going to get? Am I going to get a very professional, honest, trustworthy company? Or am I going to get somebody that I'm not really sure if they're going to be in business next year if I have a problem with the service they just provided?

So it's not enough just to be seen. It's about what being seen and that message that you deliver at the same time. And like I said, that's where guys just don't get it. They think putting something really crazy and wild is going to draw a lot of eyeballs and maybe it does draw some eyeballs, but then I can't read the messaging. And then I don't have a positive brand promise to go along with that message. And that's, that's to me a fail. That's only half of it. And you're missing the most important part of it. Yeah. And, uh, you know, one of the things that Ken Goodrich told me is that it's kind of funny because this was years ago, but he said, what's your click-through rate? And I said, well,

what search term? And I think that's really relative, but overall for all your search terms, he said when he started doing branding and he, you know, he's a radio guy, he works with the wizard of ads, but he wraps all of his trucks and he gets the impression. So a lot of people think, put your phone over, put your website, put all this stuff on there. But really what you're trying to do is get those impressions all the time and have a very clear where a one garage door service and we do garage doors. And tell me a little bit about how that improves your click through rate.

Like a lot of people, here's what I don't understand, Dan, is they're not on Google, but they do all this branding. And they're not number one. They don't play from PPC and they don't have a website that ranks or loads fast. Right. How important is that? And that's a good transition to talk about getting these impressions, your branding, but you're not on the largest website or search engine in the world.

Right. And that goes to the idea of what we talk about with the concept of what I call winning the battle on the streets. So the idea is, I want to make sure that instead of somebody going onto Google and saying, I'm going to look for a garage door repair guy, and I'm going to type in garage door repair, Phoenix, Arizona. And maybe A1 shows up, maybe it doesn't show up. But wouldn't it be better for that customer to just go onto Google and just type in A1 garage door because they remember seeing your van and they remember looking at the van and feeling like it left me with some kind of impression.

So that's what we talk about as far as let's try to make sure that every impression that we make with that vehicle on the road, first of all, is delivering a brand promise. Second of all, it's sticky, right? So we talk about sticky branding and the idea that that brand then certainly becomes something memorable that they will use later on when they need that service. Because obviously, even for you, Tommy, not everybody needs a garage door service. They need it when they need it, usually. It's not like they need it frequently, usually. But wouldn't it be better if they just typed in your name into Google rather than garage door repair? And now I got to pay for the click, maybe? And I'm not saying you're going to abandon PPC and you're going to abandon SEO. I mean, you can't do that, but maybe we don't have to put nearly as many resources into that strategy if our name is already ingrained in their heads. If they already think when they think garage doors and they think

A1, well, boom. Well, then why do I need to be spending so much more on digital marketing if I'm already winning on the street? So that's kind of what I think what you're talking about there too, is making sure that those impressions deliver all the things we talked about earlier. And that when it comes time for them to make a decision about who they're choosing to do business with, your name comes top of mind to them already. And then even if they typed in garage door repair, and then you show up, and then they go to your website, and then they see that brand, they're like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I've seen those guys all over. I've seen their vans all over. You know, I'm going to give one tip that like so many guys don't even get. And it's really strange to me. Right. But like people should always have their vehicle featured on their homepage.

And it's like, it's blows my mind that so many guys do not do that and put that on their homepage. But aren't we trying to connect dots? Aren't we trying to show that vehicle that's in the community that they live in, that they've seen all the time, that their neighbors are using? So why don't we like make sure that our van is actually featured prominently on our website?

You know, it blows my mind sometimes because it's like, really? Like we're not even going to reference the fact that our most visible application of our brand is our vehicle that's in the communities and it's not even referenced on our homepage. It's bizarre to me. I agree. When I pull up to a house in the advance, I get more money. Like I say, is it okay that I parked right there in the street? And then they look out and they see this professional wrap, really nice truck, and they go,

this is a premier company. I'm not getting Joe Blow. I'm getting the best of the best. Right. Yeah. And let's the best of the best. Right. Yeah. And let's talk about that, Tommy, because you're hitting on something that's so important and you're talking about biases, right? And that's part of what the brand is really supposed to address. And I hate to use that term, but the reality is so many homeowners are afraid of who's coming to their home.

They're afraid of who they're using to maybe do business with them. They don't understand the things that need to be fixed, right? If I got an HVAC system and maybe it's just a blown fuse, like how the hell do I know, right? I have no idea what's wrong, but like if I can control that conversation, if I can control that impression and help overcome those biases that

they have, well, now I'm leading in with something positive, right? I roll up with this beautiful van, I hand out a card, I'm uniformed properly, and they've hit my website previously. All those touch points are speaking to them and saying, this is a professional company that I want to do business with. And then when you give that estimate, and maybe you are a little bit higher, well, you know what? I've laid out the foundation as to why my company is a premier provider of service

and why you should pay me a little bit more than the one truck operation guy. And if something goes wrong next year, we're going to be here to take care of it. So all the things we just spoke about is what the brand is supposed to do. It's supposed to counter all the biases. It's supposed to put them at ease with the decision that they have in front of them about who they're choosing to come to their home and do business. Right. Yeah, absolutely. And I can tell you that we're the

premier company. I always say you can get three things. You can get it done fast on your timeline, you can get it done best quality, or you can get it done for cheap. Two out of the three, you're not going to get all three of those. I want to be fast, and I want to be really high quality and good guys that are trustworthy. But I'm not cheap, and the trucks in my van say we're not cheap. Right. And that's the thing, Tommy, too, is you have so many guys. To me, I'm blessed that the

people that we do work for, all of them are providing a great service. The problem is, is that so many of them don't look like they're providing a great service. So when you could marry up the deliverable with the perception, that's when you hit a home run, right? I can do everything. I can make any company look as amazing as top shelf, everything, right? But when you go ring that doorbell, it's on you at that point. I can't control what happens after you ring the doorbell, but I can control everything that happens before that point. And I can get them to believe that you are the best in your area

and that you provide a great service. So when you marry up providing a great service with having a premium brand expectation, well then again, that's when it's a home run. That's when you can get the dollars that you're trying to get. You see guys hit wall and they're like, I can't get those dollars here. I can't sell it for that much. No one's going to pay that much here. Well, you know what? Have you looked at what you're putting out on the street? Maybe that's part of the problem as to why you can't get the dollars you're trying to get because you don't look like you deserve to get those dollars. Yeah, absolutely. And one of the things I learned too is I used to buy Dakotas because I didn't have any money and I could afford them. But I learned

about enterprises program. But the biggest thing I learned about a standardization of your trucks and keep it the same. Don't have all these different models, different styles, different wraps. The uniformity is super key. I wanted to hit on a subject here because you've been doing this forever, a really long time. And one of the pitfalls of graphic design, well, I guess it's not a pitfall,

but it takes time, but you got to spend money. It's not cheap. How do you explain to your clients why graphic design sometimes costs a lot of money? investing in your branding, that's where I think the real cost is, right? Because when you have a poor brand, then you just need to spend so much more money getting people to pay attention to it. And you have to work so much harder to get people to notice who you are. So I always say, well, it's not that it's expensive. It's actually the best investment that you can make. Like we recently

did a promotional piece here where I went back and I asked, you know, like 25 clients, well, what has happened to your business since we've rebranded you? And like, dude, the stats that we have are just, I mean, you take Ken's as an example, but the stats are just ridiculous. It always becomes this huge inflection point in their business where now suddenly everything starts firing on all cylinders and all their marketing channels are working so much better. So it's not that it's expensive. It's an investment. And when you see the return on that investment, it's a no-brainer.

That's why the biggest thing we hear when we talk to potential clients is like, oh, it's expensive. And I'm like, yeah, but how much is the poor brand really costing you every year? And missed opportunities and the ability to charge what you want to make on each job. Those are all the hidden costs that a poor brand is affecting. And they're intangible. It's hard to put a finite number on it, but I could look at every single company

that we've rebranded and look at the stats for them. Some of these companies don't put any additional money into marketing once they've rebranded and the growth that they see is significant. To me, it's like really one of the smartest things you could be doing. But listen, on the other hand, here's the funny part of it, right? So many companies don't invest in it.

And that's, to me, the hidden beauty of it, right? It's like, you have all these competitors in your space. None of them have a good brand. Well, dude, what would happen to you if you had the best brand in your market? You'd totally kill it, right? And I love those opportunities. When we take on a client and we do market research and we see what's happening in their space, and they say, well, this guy's like 10 million, this guy's 15 million. I'm looking at their brands. I'm like, dude, you got to be kidding me. Really? This is who we're competing against? Awesome. I love it because we're going to crush kidding me. Like, really? This is who we're competing against? Awesome. I love it because we're going to crush them. So it's really funny to see sometimes these bigger companies with these awful brands.

And then I've got a guy with half the revenue. And that's our whole strategy is just to come in and start taking pieces of his world because the new brand is going to work so much better. And people are going to just see that. And it's really ironic sometimes when I see what some of these companies have out there. It's like, okay, good, cool. Let them have that stuff. Let's go out there. Let's do something disruptive and let's make the brand work so much better. And we do it all the time. And it's just really, it is ironic like the hidden, the hidden beauty of it. Right. And it's like the huge opportunity that you have in your market, because I bet no one in your market has a good brand. Yeah. A lot of them don't. And I think a lot of people are attached to their brand and they're afraid to give it

up and they probably hesitate, don't they? Oh yeah. Yeah. Because you know, their nephew designed it or they designed it or their friend designed it. And, and the other thing is then they say, well, dude, I've been so successful with this brand for X number of years, why would I ever change it? And if the brand is really awful, I'm going to counter with that and say, dude, imagine

how much more success you would have had if you actually had a better brand. So don't use the, oh, well, I've been successful with this brand, why should I change? It's like this complacent mentality because you're not really looking at the missed opportunities that you might've had with a better brand. So kudos to you for being successful with that awful brand. That's cool and all. And it means you're running a good business. It means you're doing so many things right, but let's kill it on the brand side of things now. And now let's see what this thing can do. Let's take this thing out for a spin. And I'll tell you, man, we'll do so well with it

because now we have your great service matched up with the great impression that the brand is making. So absolutely, like, listen, yeah, we see that all the time. I mean, even when we worked with you, like I know you really liked what you had. And listen, you've been doing really well with it, right?

But you looked at it and you said, hey, you know what? It's not really communicating who we are anymore. And companies outgrow brands all the time. You started it, you had no money, maybe when you started it and you did it the cheapest way just to get a van done and get it on the road. And then it's five years later and you still got that same logo that somebody put together. And it's like, is that really who you are today as a company? And so many judgments are made on that first impression. And that's why it's hilarious to me sometimes when we do the market research and they send me their competitors. And I don't know what size they are, but during the course of the

conversation, they'll say, well, that company's $10 million and this one's $15 million. And I'm like, really? Because I'm judging them on that van that we did the research on. And I'm looking at that one van and I'm saying, this looks like they got like three vans, maybe. So that's what's really ironic about it too, is they outgrow the brand and then they won't make the investment in making the change because they think it's going to negatively affect them. I can say that anybody we've done it for, no one regrets the decision. No one comes back and say, oh my God, I wish that was such a bad idea that we changed our logo. You've got to roll it out properly, obviously. There's a method to rolling out a new brand, but no one ever regrets that

decision. I've never experienced anyone regretting doing that. Yeah. One of my goals is to start acquiring companies. And that's the first thing I look at is their website, which has to do with their logo and the wraps. And it all kind of works together and what they're putting on ads. And that's the first thing that we can really improve on right away. And tell me a little bit about what are some critical elements that make a logo work and align with the business brand? I think when we talk about brand promise, that's a lot goes into figuring out, like if you were at a party and you handed out your business card to someone with your logo on it, and that was the only judgment that they were able to make about what they thought

about your business. Well, what would it say about your company? What would they think about your company? So you see a lot of companies that, again, they perform this great service and they have a great deliverable, but you don't necessarily get that when you judge them by how the brand is communicating those key attributes. So it looks okay. Most businesses have what I call a neutral brand. And a neutral brand means that I don't necessarily think anything bad about the company, but I don't necessarily think anything good about the company either. It's like, okay, yeah, it's kind of there. We sort of call that blanding, right? When it's a brand, but it's really bland. So it's not necessarily like, I don't think that they're awful, but I'm not like excited about it.

I'm like, you know, so we're all really trying to make sure that that logo is communicating something positive. Like I hand you this card and I look at your logo and I think, well, this is a premium based provider or they're going to provide a great service to me or they look very professional and they look like they've been around a long time.

Like those are all the attributes that you're trying to really make sure your brand is communicating. So, you know, guys get caught up in the moment of having that old brand for a really long time and not necessarily stepping back and thinking about, well, what does it really say about my company when I hand out my card? Like, do people look at it and if they knew nothing else about us, what do you think that they would say? And that goes to almost the definition about branding is, what would somebody say about your company if they were talking about you at a party? What would they say? Or if they were telling their neighbor about the experience of working with A1, what would they say that experience was like? And that's all factored into what a brand truly is. And branding as a concept, people make it

sound like it's very complicated, right? But the reality is, if you think about branding, think about branding as a wheel, right? And the center of that wheel is a hub. That hub is your logo. Everything that comes out of that wheel, like the spokes that go around that wheel, like your social channels, your digital marketing, your truck wraps, your uniforms, your brand voice, all those things comprise that wheel. And that's really what a brand is. If you think about it from that perspective, it's a lot easier to understand. I like it. One of the things they got a question about is you really seem to, correct me if I'm wrong, but you pushing 300 or 400 at this point. And then service businesses, another few hundred service businesses. I feel like I've studied

so much about what works in that market and what doesn't work. And obviously, we have a tremendous amount of experience, but we see the results. And we see what happens when brands are integrated in a consistent manner across all the platforms too. So that's the other piece of the equation. It's not just like, well, let me get a new logo and get a new truck wrap. It's now how does that new brand live and breathe on the other touch points and making sure that they're all consistent as well. So, but yeah, absolutely. We do a lot of HVAC and, you know, I think we have a really good idea of what the consumers are looking for and how to address their fears and how to build brands that connect to those consumers.

You know, I see a lot of trucks and I think you said something about, you know, real pictures don't work. I don't think you do any of your vans with real pictures. Do you? Nope. So tell me a little bit about that. What's the, um, Because pictures aren't brands, you with real pictures? Nope. Nope. So tell me a little bit about that. What's the, um, because pictures aren't brands, you know, pictures don't represent brands.

In your case, you had a photo of you and I understood the reason and the rationale behind that. But we looked at that and we said, you know, there's probably a better way for us to communicate that. But you often see guys that have like a photo of a generic technician on the back of their van, or he's waving off the back of his van. All those impressions, they come at the expense of your brand in support of it. So even HVAC, some guys are like, oh, let me put a condenser unit on the side of my van. I'm like, oh, cool. So now I see a van driving by. It's got a condenser unit on it.

I know it's an air conditioning company. Which company is it for? I don't know. I can't see it because now the logo is coming at the expense of this big, big ass condenser unit that's on the side of the van. So photos don't represent brands. You know, it's always a huge mistake to integrate photos on vehicles, photos of equipment and air conditioning units.

Like, who cares? It's not related to them specifically. So why are we putting it on the side of our van? So yeah, we don't put photos on vans. We keep the wraps 100% brand centric and focused on that particular brand. And again, making sure that it delivers all the things that we want. That condenser unit doesn't deliver me a brand promise. All it tells me is that you're a heating and air contractor. It tells me nothing else about the experience I might expect to get if I chose to do business with you. It's not like you're McDonald's

and you've got a picture of a red box with French fries in it. You know, it's a whole different world over there. So yeah, we don't put photos on vans. It doesn't stop people from continuing to try to make photos work, but it's definitely not a strategy that we believe in. Hey, listen, guys, I hope you're enjoying this conversation with Dan. I just want to let

you know that we have a special offer from Kick Charge for you today. So stick into the end and I'll reveal how you can take advantage of it. But if you're in a rush, just go to homeserviceexpert.com forward slash podcast forward slash Dan dash Antonelli, A-N-T-O-N-E-L-L-I. And check out this exclusive offer we put together for our listeners. Okay, now let's get back and continue our chat with Dan. I love talking about brand.

I've read a lot of books on branding and really consistent messaging. And some guys I talked to on a podcast just yesterday actually said that just because you're getting impressions that people are, what do they say? Taco Bell. They said they tried a Taco Bell to do,

they had that, it was a commercial that got a lot of talk, a lot of shares, a lot of stuff on social media, but it didn't get the buy signal. They wanted them to buy more food and come to Taco Bell more often, but it didn't get that effect. So tell me something a little bit

about what successful brands have in common in terms of branding. No, I think the most successful ones are the ones in which, again, they are basically trying to address the most common concerns that their intended audience has. And it's trying to answer the question as to why they should choose to do business. I know we keep talking about Ken a little bit, but Ken's campaign with the boy holding the flashlight was something that is already delivering an aspect and a message that connects with them. The story of how he was holding the flashlight when his dad was working on the air conditioning unit. And it's crafting a message that is connecting with a lot of people. and then repeatedly seeing those messages and then hearing the stories that were

told on the radio spots and things like that. That was very powerful and it was very different. It wasn't driven by cost. The campaign wasn't all about a $49 air conditioning tune-up. It was all about what the story of that brand was meant to signify. And it stood out in that market. That's the other piece of it too, is the approach needs to be unique in that market. So you look at some of the campaigns, and when we launch any campaign, we're always really cognizant of what's happening in that space. So if there are, let's say there's five competitors and four of them are using mascots, well, you know what? Maybe mascots aren't really the right approach for your market because

it's not going to work as effectively as another market where there's no mascots. So looking at all those different things and making sure that it delivers that message from a competitive landscape is going to disrupt that space. And that's what Ken did. I think that's what we did when we launched that. It was very disruptive. It didn't look like anything else that was happening in those markets. And even your brand, nobody's really branding that way. You could go on Google and Google garage door repair wraps, and you tell me who else is doing an approach like we've got. Would you? Not many, you know, garage door repair wraps. And you tell me who else is doing that, you know, an approach like we've got with you, you know, not many, if any, right. So that's all part of, I think, what makes it work so much better and be disruptive at the same time.

So what do you call what you did with, with my face and, and Ken Goodrich's face? What was that called? Stenciling or something? I mean, it's technically, you would say it's mascot based, but the style in which it was rendered is rooted in some rendering styles that were more prevalent in, let's say, the 50s and that time period. There's little details on your illustration that you wouldn't expect to be done by an illustrator today. So we sort of looked at stylistically, how can we create an illustration style that will also feel very unique and very distinctive, right? And the same thing with Ken, when we did the illustration of his son there,

that was more like a Norman Rockwell type type approach like his particular style is a little bit different than yours but that's really the the inspiration of that style and you know, listen norman rockwell and the way he used to paint and do his His style we wanted to try to capture that because again subliminally we're illustrating Something to that customer we're talking about a better time And we're making them feel at home and comfortable. And those are all part of what goes into what is the takeaway you get when you see that brand? How do I feel after viewing that brand? And again, like I said, yours has different techniques, but those techniques are not very prevalent in most illustrations. You don't really

see what we did for you. Tons of guys doing the same kind of illustration. No, I don't see, like you said, whether it's window washing, chimney repair, no one's really doing this. And I think this is a huge podcast for people to kind of wake up and smell the roses here. What's one of the biggest branding mistakes that small businesses should avoid? I think there's a couple of things just to throw out there as things just to be really careful with if you're going to hire someone to do this task for. So a lot of times we see guys that obviously try to get the cheapest way to try to get something going and maybe they'll try to get the cheapest way to try to get something going. And maybe they'll try to do like an online contest or a logo contest or do something like that. And we've just seen a lot of examples of really bad things happen out of that experience. And part of the things that

we see happen is that there's sold artwork that belongs to other companies. So we've been the recipient of that having probably 30 or 40 of our actual brands that we've created for other contractors actually sold to someone else who didn't know that it belonged to someone else. And then they went and they put it on five of their trucks. And then we found out about it. And then our clients basically pursue the rights for their trademark and issue cease and desist. And now that other company has to throw away $15,000, $18,000 worth of truck wraps. So just be very cognizant of who you hire to do any of these tasks. Make sure all the artwork that's being created for you is original so that you can get your logo and your brand trademarked. That's really important. It means that no one else can

use it after it's created for you. So doing your homework about the agency that you choose to do business with is really important. Not using clip art is really important because you cannot trademark clip art. So that means that someone designs your logo and they use clip art. You put it on everything you own. There's literally nothing to stop someone in your market using that same piece of art. Now, they probably wouldn't, but you can have that artwork be recirculated and reused from anyone in the nation now, and that's not really a good thing. You obviously want to own your own brand.

So that's certainly something that we caution people about. Make sure that the artwork that's being created for you is original and that you can own it and trademark it after that process is done. You know, other mistakes, I mean, I would just say again to the idea that what we have today has brought us to this place. So why should we change? And typically that's not really rational. I mean, I get it. I don't want to say it's not rational. I would say it's kind of like a warm blanket, right? They're all nice and cozy with this brand and everyone on the team really likes it. And they kind of use that as the reason why we shouldn't change. But even for you, Tommy, you had to make a decision at a certain point and say, this is not good enough for us anymore. And you probably even got resistance internally with your

own employees. We see that all the time where the employees, they're not really on board with the idea of rebranding because they're afraid of change, right? I don't know. How was that for you when you went through that and you told your team that you were going to change? I had a lot of people that were like, oh, that's cool.

That's exciting. But several people were more nostalgic about, well, you've always had that. That's always been what we had. And they just, you're right, they hate change. And that's just that's not how a business should be run it should be run off of facts and black and white not not how i feel so absolutely i see them right next to one another all the time and i'm like wow

it's crazy my other one was just way too busy we really didn't know what we did but you see a1 garage on it so hopefully you can put two and two together. How many have done so far? Probably 40. Wow. They're flying out now. So that's awesome. I want to switch gears a little bit and let's talk about advertising. And when it comes to quality content, your marketing copy needs to stay true to the facts, but also it needs to be capable of pushing the right buttons. I talked about this a little bit earlier. What constitutes good content marketing and how would you define it exactly? Yeah.

For us, I think the key is just developing content that is authentic and making sure that you have a unique brand story that will connect with your audience. You see so many websites where the content is so generic and it's so clearly, obviously written for SEO and nothing about it is unique to that company. I think that that's really a mistake. I love it when we have the opportunity to write content for the websites that we design and we can craft the story of that brand through the written words. Of course, we still write for SEO and we're including keywords and we're doing all those things, but we're also making it so that the stories that are being told through the words connect with that consumer and connect with the brand story. So I think that that's what's ironic about so much of the online marketing that you see

is that all of it feels so tired and generic. And listen, I get it. It's not exciting to talk about HVAC, but you can write about HVAC in a way that is engaging and that still connects with your own brand and feels authentic. If I'm going to go on Google and I get the top three choices and all of them have these somewhat generic websites with all the same relatively generic content, well, now I've already placed the three of these companies at the same exact level. They're all the same to me. Now my thought process shifts to the idea of who can do this service for the least expensive because they look all the same to me. But really, is your company the same as your competitors? And if it's not, then why would

your content be the same as your competitors? I think the biggest mistake I see is not keeping your existing customers and not reaching out to old customers. Absolutely. Yeah. And it's really funny that you say that because I think that that's the irony of it, right? Is we're going to spend so much time on customer acquisition, right? And then we get this customer,

we do a great job for this customer. And then what do we do? Well, now we're on to trying to find the next customer. But isn't that customer, we killed it for them. They love us. Why aren't we reconnecting with them on a regular basis? Why aren't we telling them about some of the other things that we can do? If you're HVAC and then you have plumbing and they only hired you for plumbing for HVAC

services, well, maybe they don't know you do plumbing. How often do you hear people say that have multi-trades that the customer says, oh, we didn't know you do plumbing. How often do you hear people say that have multi-trades that the customer says, oh, we didn't know you did plumbing. We thought you were only electrical. Or we didn't know you did heating and air. We thought you only did plumbing. So those are all failures to communicate the message

to those existing customers. And so, yeah, we do email marketing and we try to keep some of it. Obviously, you want to try to keep the information useful to them so that it's engaging and there's some relevant content for them that they can use. We try to mix in, obviously, some offer-based marketing

and then do things that, again, reinforce their brand and reinforce the fact of some of the other service offerings that they may not be aware of. So anytime we see customers that have this problem that their existing customers don't know that they do this other service, that's something that we want to try to then turn that conversation around and make sure all our communication channels are in support of those other services. So couple the email marketing with some of the social posts and things like that.

And now you're at least trying to hit them from all angles and let them know about some of the different areas that you can help them with. But yeah, I think it's so funny, Tommy, because everybody is like, oh my God, I got to get new customers, got to get new customers. It's like, well, wait a minute.

What about the people that we've already done work for? Because we killed it for them. They love us, right? So what else can we do for them? So being aggressive in that space, I think, is really, really important. And being proactive. Yeah. It's something that I feel like most companies don't do well.

No. The majority of companies. No. And everybody's getting more sophisticated with some of the software platforms like ServiceTitan and some of these other platforms that are out there, right? So we know we have their email addresses. We know we have all that data. Why aren't we leveraging that data and using that data to support some of the other marketing initiatives? But it's kind of like, it's so funny when you look at budget lines, sometimes it's always like, okay, SEO and PPC taking up like 60, 70% of the budget. And then

it's like email marketing. It's like, it's like at the bottom of the list. And I'm like, really? Like, guys, we've got people who love us. Why aren't we talking to them more often? And obviously, we, you know, we're not going to kill them and flood their inboxes with crap. But we do want to make sure we keep up with that and leveraging those opportunities for sure. You wrote in an article that keyword rankings are essentially meaningless and marketers should focus on other things. And we hit upon this a little bit that you don't want to be the same as everybody else. Tell me a little bit more about that. Well, I mean, the idea that everyone places so much relevance on keyword rankings, first of all, it's keyword rankings to a certain extent are going to be different for everyone,

you know, depending on browsing history, depending on where they're browsing from. But the more important stat is traffic and relevant traffic. So we have guys that we run their SEO and they may say, oh, well, how come we don't show up number one for this? I'm like, dude, look at your data. Look at how many hits you have going to this page in support of this particular keyword. What would you rather have? Be number one and have no one clicking on it the more important stat is how much traffic, how much relevant traffic are we driving to your site? And more important than that, how much traffic is converting? So making sure that we're looking at the data from that perspective and not getting so hung up on very specific individual keywords that first of

all, maybe no one's even typing. That's the way we try to look at it more from a holistic standpoint. How much traffic are we generating? How much relevant traffic are we generating? Like we could generate traffic and it's totally irrelevant traffic, right? So what good is that? And making sure the traffic when they land converts, making sure that you have a good UI, making sure that you have the calls to action in the right space

and it's easy for them to call you and mobile and all those other things for sure. You know, I want to talk a little bit about the four-hour work week, which is VAs and outsourcing. Tell me, are you a fan or not? And how do you get great content? How do you make sure you're getting

the stuff done right properly? Let's go into outsourcing and your ideas on that. I think a lot of service businesses have the greatest intentions as far as thinking that they can do a lot of these tasks themselves. They say, oh, well, it's going to be really hard for someone to write social about our company because they're not here. And then they have someone at the front office maybe that does a couple of posts here and there. And then it just falls by the wayside. So we see those companies all the time where they have the best of intentions that they think that they can do it on their own, and then they don't execute. Or some of the content that they're actually putting out

that is meant to represent their brand in a positive way is actually doing the opposite. Either it's not professional or it's not on brand or it's not on brand voice, which is even worse. So I think at a certain point, it's nice to think that you can do some of those things in-house. And if you have the right staff, obviously you can, but I don't think most companies are really equipped properly to have a dedicated person that is experienced in some of those channels and how to make the most of those opportunities. As far as a four-hour work week, I don't see it happening for me. I'd love for it to happen to me, but I don't see that happening for me or for most of my clients, I would say.

Yeah, I can't imagine. Work to me is fun. I do what I And if people ask, what do you do for fun? And I'm like, well, I go golf and I shoot pool, I go to movies. But at the end of the day, I actually enjoy going into work. I enjoy building something and making something that's never been done before in the garage industry.

So I wanted to just ask you, I always ask this question, what are three books that mean a lot to you that you'd recommend? And it could be fiction. It could be anything really. I mean, the book Traction that has the EOS system has been huge for me and our company here. And I've seen so many cases of clients that have also gone through the EOS system. And I really believe in the process and a lot of the key concepts that come out of that book. It's been really helpful for us as a team to really get aligned on what we're supposed to be doing and what our

mission here is and our values and our goals. And I think that that's part of it too, where you're going along and everything's kind of running smooth and you think that everyone knows where you're going. And what I kind of found out is like, everyone had kind of a vague idea of what we were doing and kind of what we stood for, but it wasn't really defined. We're still going through traction. We haven't finished it, but we have made a lot of headway. And it's really, I think, been enlightening for me to see that.

The book that Ken just wrote with... Yeah, it's the HVAC. It's the E-Myth for HVAC. Yeah. The E-Myth book, I think, was huge for me to read early on and learn some of the fundamentals there. And I think we all struggle with the idea of working on our business versus working in our business. And that's certainly something that I think has been certainly a challenge for me. So you stumped me on that one. I'm trying to think of other ones and I know there's a... How about building a big, small business brand? Yeah. I mean, that's a page turner, man. You got to get that one. Yeah. There's a lot of cool, there's a lot of stuff, man. You got natural turf. I mean, it just keeps going. All these Crown Point, Blue Ox, it's just all these

different brands. I'm trying to do another one. Like I started the outline for a fourth one. It's just really hard to, I mean, that book there took me three years to write. So it's just, it's hard. Like I have so many things and so many new experiences. I mean, that was published in 2014, I think. But I feel like there's so much more on the topic that we can talk about. And I think what's cool about what we've done

even more recently is we have so many more hard facts and stats about branding successes that I think could be leveraged in a book more so. So when you talk about the results and having the book talk more from a results-driven perspective, I think there's a lot more that we could talk about. So yeah, I mean, it's one of my goals just to try to get going on a fourth one. But it's hard, man. You know the deal. Yeah.

You do all the stuff you do. I mean, you don't sleep either. I know. Oh, when I wrote my book, it was like, I just kept going like, hey, I got to add this. I got to add this. I got to add that. Yeah. It's really hard to say, okay, stop and get it done.

And you can see from that book, like what went into the design of the book. So that was the other part of it too. It wasn't just like writing words. It's like, you know, we really spent so much time with the visuals to go along with the content on that book. And that probably, I mean, the manuscript probably took me 25% of the time, whereas the design took the 75% of the time, you know? It's super cool. All my guys in my marketing team went through it. So how do I get ahold of you or the listeners if they want to get something done? And is there anything special you can do for anybody that mentions that they heard you here?

Yeah, yeah, definitely. We could try to work something out, have some kind of offer. The website for us is kickcharge.com. So K-I-C-K charge.com. And my direct email, if they want to shoot me an email, it's dan at kickcharge.com. Okay. What if they want to connect via LinkedIn or Facebook? What's the best? Yeah. Yeah linkedin is cool. You know, just dan antonelli on linkedin and

Instagram, I think it's kick charge creative on instagram for us And the phone number here too. 908-835-9000 And then finally the last thing I do on the podcast is give you a few minutes to discuss whatever maybe any final thoughts and maybe a plan of action because a lot of people are going to sit and say you know what i really need to do something but they don't do it ever so maybe some advice maybe some last minute thoughts or take to action type thing, plan of action. So. Yeah. I mean, definitely one thing I would say is don't be bland and people get afraid of the concept of disruption. And I think we've really honed in on the idea of branding disruption

and how it works in that space. But a lot of people are scared of it. You know, like sometimes we pitch these ideas and they're scared because it feels so foreign to them. You know, like it feels like, oh my God, like really, you want to put this mascot that big on the side of my van? And I'm like, yeah, that's what we're doing. I'm not afraid of it because we've done it so many times, but I have to remember that a lot of times,

yeah, they're scared of the idea of disruption because it's not what everyone else that they're competing against is doing. So when you recommend a strategy like that, everyone else is doing something that's more traditional. And now we're saying, do something a little bit more disruptive. It feels uncomfortable. So I think if people can get used to the idea of going a little bit outside their comfort zone and thinking about a brand that will connect in a visual way, in a way that will deliver that brand promise in a more meaningful way, and be open to that, and be open to the idea that maybe it is time to look at what you currently have and say,

hey, you know what? This isn't good enough. And I can tell you, I rebranded this agency and renamed this agency three years ago or so. I was called Graphic Designs for 22 years. And I told people, you know what? We don't do graphic design and we're not a sign company. Why are we called graphic designs? It was graphic D with a dash. That's how it was spelled out. And it was clever in 1995 when I named it that, but I'm like, we don't even do this anymore. But I was like, oh, but everybody knows us by that. Everyone knows us. And I went through the same things that our clients were rationalizing. And then I said, you know what? Listen, I was building a new building. I built a brand new office out here. And I'm like,

we got to change. We got to be something different. So we came up with KickCharge because we're like, well, that captures what we do. We energize small businesses. We power them. And so the name KickCharge sounds exactly like what we do. And I'm like, that's perfect. It was such a great name that I think we came up with for us to represent us. But I had to go through that sort of process myself and say, yeah, but like, you know, it's been working. Why would I change it? You know, so I had to answer those same questions myself after years of doing it for everyone else. And I think it was good for me to go through that process because I sort of better understood sometimes their apprehension. And I had so many people that told me it was a huge mistake.

Like everyone's like, I can't believe you're changing the name. Like all my family, they thought I was nuts. And I look back and I'm like, man, I am so glad that we did that because it's just us, you know, and it's worked so much better in all our marketing. So, you know, listen, look at yourself, look at your competitors, put all their logos up on a wall and put yours next to it. And you tell me where you live in that space. If you want to have an action step, go do that. And if you look the same as everybody else, or you look worse than everybody else, then maybe it's really something to look at. Or take pictures of all their vans and put your van next to it and see which one is more disruptive, which one

delivers that brand story. I mean, there's a couple of simple things that they could do just to really take a look at where they stand in their marketplace. Forget about what it communicates to the consumer. This is an even easier thing to do is just look at where they are and look at where you are and you tell me where you live in that space. I love it. Where are you located again, Dan? I forget the city. We're in Jersey, New Jersey and the western part of New Jersey in Washington. Got it. Okay, cool. Well, listen, I got a ton out of this. I am a big fan of yours. I know so many people. If you're serious about your business, you go to Dan. If you're not, you don't. I mean,

that's what I learned and that's what a million people have told me. And that's what I use you. And I'm really, really happy and proud of the results. So thanks for the podcast. And if the listeners out there want to improve their business, they need to get ahold of you. So thank you so much. Thanks, pal. Hey, hope you enjoyed today's podcast with Dan antonelli the reason we use kick cards to wrap our trucks at a1 garage doors is because they literally are the best at branding it's so clean everybody makes a comment on it in every state we're in and i gotta tell you this literally almost doubled our revenue if you guys ever listen to the podcast or this is your first one you know the number one thing i say every business needs is branding. So here's the great news. We put together a special offer for our listeners. If you want

to create a professional rep for your trucks that generate leads wherever you park them, go to kickcharge.com forward slash HSE and you get $500 off for just being a listener of the Home Service Expert Podcast.