The HoneyDew with Ryan Sickler - Erik Kramer | The HoneyDew with Ryan Sickler #376 | Full Episode

Episode Date: March 9, 2026

My HoneyDew this week is former NFL quarterback Erik Kramer! Be sure to check out Erik’s book, The Ultimate Comeback: Surviving a Suicide Attempt, Conquering Depression, and Living with a Purpose. Erik joins me to Highlight the Lowlights of his incredible comeback story. After the devastating loss of his son to an overdose, followed by his mother passing away just eight months later, Erik fell into a deep depression that led him to attempt to take his own life. Miraculously, he survived the gunshot and began the long road back while recovering from a traumatic brain injury. But the story doesn’t stop there. As Erik tries to rebuild his life, things take another wild turn when a con woman enters the picture and spends years secretly stealing money from him without his knowledge. 🎟️See me live. All tickets at www.ryansickler.com/tour 🎤Check out my new standup special “Live & Alive” streaming on my YouTube now! http://youtu.be/PMGWVyM2NJo?si=SrhXjgzR1pe6CyYE 👉 Subscribe for more standup and new episodes of The HoneyDew, The Wayback, and more! http://youtube.com/@rsickler ✅ Subscribe to my Patreon “The HoneyDew with Y’all”! Get The HoneyDew audio and video a day early, ad-free, for just $5/month! Want more? Upgrade to the $8/month premium tier and get everything above plus The Wayback a day early, ad-free, censor-free, and exclusive bonus content you won’t find anywhere else! http://patreon.com/RyanSickler 📧What’s your story?? Submit at [e-mail] 👕Get Your Merch👕 http://www.bonfire.com/store/ryansickler/ 🎧 Listen to my Podcasts 🎧 The HoneyDew - http://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-honeydew-with-ryan-sickler/id527446250 The Wayback - http://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-wayback-with-ryan-sickler/id1721601479 Patreon - http://www.patreon.com/ryansickler 📣 Follow Me📣 ▪ Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/ryansickler/ ▪ TikTok: http://www.tiktok.com/@ryan.sickler ▪ Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/RyanSicklerOfficial 🕸️ryansickler.com/ 🍈thehoneydewpodcast.com/ 🦀Subscribe to The CrabFeast Podcast🦀 http://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-crabfeast-with-ryan-sickler-and-jay-larson/id1452403187 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

At Desjardin, we speak business. We speak equipment modernization. We're fluent in data digitization and expansion into foreign markets. And we can talk all day about streamlining manufacturing processes. Because at Desjardin business, we speak the same language you do. Business. So join the more than 400,000 Canadian entrepreneurs who already count on us. And contact Desjardin today.

We'd love to talk, business. In communities across Canada, hourly Amazon employees can grow their skills and their paycheck by enrolling in free skills training programs for in-demand fields. Learn more at aboutamazon.ca. Connecticut, come see me at Comics Roadhouse March 13th and 14th. Dallas, Texas, I'm headed your way March 27th and 28th. Spokane, Washington. I'll see you guys April 3rd and 3rd. 4th, Buffalo, New York, I'm headed your way. I'll see you guys Friday, April 24th, and Saturday, April 25th. Get your tickets now at Ryan Sickler.com.

The Honeydew with Ryan Sickler. Welcome back to the honeydew, y'all. We're over here doing it in the NightPan Studios. I'm Ryan Sickler. Ryan Sickler.com and Ryan Sickler on all your social media. Thank you guys for supporting this show. Thank you for supporting anything I do. And if you've got to have more, I've been telling you for years,

then you've got to have the Patreon and the honeydew with y'all. It's five bucks a month. It's this show with y'all. And you guys have the most insane stories. here anywhere. We've been doing it for years. If you're still on the fence, just go watch the free best of episodes we put out right here on the YouTube channel. And trust me, when you see that, you're going to be like, that's worth a cup of coffee. All right? If you or someone you know has a story that has to be heard, please submit it to Honeydew Podcast at gmail.com. If you send it before,

send it again. We get a lot of them bump it to the top. We would love to do your story. All right. That is it. That's the biz. You know what we do here. We highlight the low lights. And I always say that these are the stories behind the storytellers. And I am very excited to have this guests with us. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Eric Kramer. Welcome to the honey-new Eric Kramer. Great to be here. Thank you.

That's great buildup. Thank you. It's great to have you here. And I want to publicly apologize for the parking debacle outside. I had just space locked. And then the trash truck came in. And you were like, oh. And as popular as you are, you had to know that was going to be an issue.

It's wonderful to have you here. Before we get into anything that we'd like to talk about, plug all of it right there. Anything you want them to know, please. All right. Well, a couple years ago, co-authored a book, here it is. It's called The Ultimate Comeback. I was approached by Bill Croyle, who basically wrote it, and it's my story. And it's a wild tale. I can tell you that.

So it goes, there's a little bit of football in there because that's... part of who I am and what I did, but it's a tale of about, it's probably four or five different tails that go on at the same time. So it deals with my upbringing a little bit. And then my son, my oldest son, Griffin's kind of a little bit of his tail through some of his drug dependency as a young person.

Eventually he passed away from an overdose, as did. My mom passed away about eight months. months after he did from cancer and then my dad was diagnosed around the same time she passed away with esophageal cancer, which he then passed away from about three years later. Both from the same cancer? Different cancers. Were they both smokers? Early in life.

But it didn't have to do with, no. Can I just see that for a moment? Because it says here, the ultimate comeback, it says surviving a suicide attempt, conquering depression and living with a purpose. And I was about to get to my own. I was going to say, you haven't even hit yours yet. Yeah. So, I mean, you know, this was, what, 10 years ago.

So this, for me, it was in 2015. And I had hit a very low point in life because at that time, I think I was 51-ish. And it, you know. That's when it all hit 51? Yeah, yeah. And so. I'm 52 right now. Just sitting here putting myself in your shoes with.

Right. So it was kind of, it was a culmination of a lot of things. It was a divorce that happened kind of separation back together, separation back together, eventually, ultimately divorce. And then all the things I just listed, and it really felt like all the important people in my way were no longer here. And there was nobody coming to replace them. And so anyway, that culminated in a suicide attempt, which eventually I'm still here.

So thankfully, it didn't work. I mean, I have a million questions for you. Let's go back to the beginning of all this. First of all, where are you from originally? You're here from here. I'm from here, yeah. So I grew up in the Valley, San Bernard Valley, up in Canoga Park. And I was saying to you outside, I'm pretty sure.

And you said, yeah, it was you. You played football with Corolla out of Corolla. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, we were teammates for a couple years, I think, around age eight, nine, ten, something like that. That's great. All right. So you're growing up here, and then you get married and have your, how many kids? Two?

Two boys. Yeah. Griffin and Dylan. And so the first marriage is what you were saying. That was the one that was sort of back and get together. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And so it was really, I think, tumultial. for the kids. And do you mean the relationship between you and your wife? Yes. Or excuse me. Because I also want to ask you, too, because you played Detroit, right? You played Chicago. Correct.

So are they rooted in one place or are they also bouncing with you? No, we were bouncing around. So the longest I was ever in one spot was in Chicago. But that was after I first started. I crossed the picket line and played during the strike in 18. You did? With the Falcons. Yeah.

Are you in that? I watched that damn documentary. Are you in that one? No. Was it a 30 for 30 one? That was on the Washington Redskins. Oh, just the team only. That's right.

Yeah. The team that won actually the Super Bowl later. And so. What was that like? Were you hated? Not really. They actually kept me after that. Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

But was it weird in the locker room or were they like just whatever we get it? I think at first, because Mike Ken played left tackle and he was the head of the union on the player's side. I'm not sure he and I ever had a conversation.

But interestingly, the only guy that crossed the picket line of the regulars was Tim Green, who eventually obviously had a good NFL career, but then went on to become a broadcaster and best-selling author.

And so Tim and I became friends. And then, but from there, the next year came back. I thought I had what was a pretty good training camp, but then was the last cut. The Rams had let go of both their backup quarterbacks. And so Falcons picked them up, and I waited around, no one called. So I ended up in Canada, played in the CFL for a year and a half, Calgary. Okay. Yeah.

I mean, I've got love for the CFL. because, again, Baltimore, we had the Stallions, and they won the CFL Championship. And to this day, they're the only American team to ever win the Grey Cup. So I, you know, I tout that a little bit. I had no idea. Yeah, they tried to, we wanted a team so bad. And this is not going to be a sports podcast. Yeah.

But they were like, nah, we'll give Jacksonville one. We'll give Carolina one. We're like, what are you talking about right now? Everybody, but. St. Louis and L.A., they're going to flip-flop a few. times. LA and Oakland. I mean, we're like, what? And they were like, here's a, here's a USFL team championship. Now, did you keep your band? Yeah. For the CFL, whatever they were, Baltimore style. They went with Colts in the NFL vlog. They still try to use Colts because it was

at the early. They were like, no. They kept the band and that band is now the Ravens Marching Band. It just turned into that. Yeah. It's a great story. That's great. Anyway, okay, so back to your life. You're playing football. You're, have a tumultuous time at home. It's rough for the kids. Yeah. When do you notice your son starts having some issues with drugs? This was like his, I want to say it was like in his, what age you when you're 10th grade? About 15, you're just about to get your license and stuff. Yeah, so right around that. So right around the start of his 10th grade year.

maybe in that summertime. And what are you seeing that makes you say, hmm, or do you find some, what happens? He just looks out of control. And I remember there was a birthday in the backyard for him. And that came to find out he was serving alcohol out of the garage. And you didn't know it? Didn't know it.

How would you find out? I can't remember. Sooner or later, somebody overdoes it. Yeah, I can't remember. But what I did was there was back in the middle school, there was the school, the school or schools had reached out and had some kind of relationship with the Los Angeles Sheriff's Department. So I reached out to Dave Bates, who at that time, was a. officer with them and I had him come over to the house and we sat there and he talked with Griffin about you know building a great wardrobe comes down to finding pieces that feel good

mix well and last and that is exactly what you get with quince with premium fabrics and well-thought designs they make everyday essentials that feel great and are dependable even as the seasons change We're kind of in that weird weather right now where it starts off cool in the morning, but then it's either hot or raining by the afternoon. Quince's flow-knit breeze long-sleeve tea has been a staple for me. It looks sharp. It's not stiff and suffocating, and it fits what I'm doing, whether it's work, errands or weekend cheer tournaments. Quince works directly with top factories and cuts out the middlemen so you're paying for quality, not just some brand markup. Their clothing is rated between 4.5 and 5 stars by thousands of people wearing it every day.

and they only partner with factories that meet rigorous standards for craftsmanship and ethical production. Stop overcomplicating your wardrobe. You don't need a closet full of options. You need a few pieces that actually work. Right now, go to quince.com slash honeydew for free shipping and 365 day returns. That's a full year to build your wardrobe and love it, and you will. Now available in Canada too. Don't keep settling for clothes that don't last.

Go to Q-U-I-N-C-E.com slash honey-dew for free shipping and 365-day returns. Quince.com slash honey-dew. Basically, you are the choices you make in life. And there's, so anyway, the point was that that's kind of the first time. And then, but prior to this, that even, when Griffin, I think he was like 13, so this didn't have anything to do with drugs at that time, but my wife and I, my then wife and I were going to a therapist where Griffin was often the subject matter. And so also in that group was a psychotherapist. And he said, hey, would you be okay

getting Griffin neuro-psych tested. I didn't even know what a neuropsychologist was. I'm going to say right now, what is that test? What are they looking for? So, the neuropsychologists

are not by nature therapists that you go and talk to. They give you tests and evaluate your mental capacity. And so, at that age,

it was about a three-day-ish process. Is it a sleepover thing? No, no, no, no, go and come, go and come. And what sort of test are we doing, like written, verbal, or identifying? Like, what is it, the Rorschach tests and all those sorts of things? Is it a mixture of those? I can't. Do you know?

I don't recall. She didn't walk me through. Three days is a long time. It is. I imagine on day three to also you're mentally fatigued and it's. And I think that's why it gets, probably the goal of it. So it's not eight hours a day, right? It's maybe two.

And so, but what did come back, was Jeannie Bismunds, her name, she said, here's the scenario, is that Griffin's frontal cortex, which is responsible for your organization, it's not wired properly. So, oh, okay, now it makes sense that in school, you know, like in second grade, I remember reading with him or getting him to read,

was very difficult. And, you know, coaching him through youth football was not difficult. The difficulty came and he didn't have the patience to learn. And but I would say heartbreakingly, even more than that, was he would, he was very social kid. And so he didn't have the awareness to know that he was sabotaged in the very relationships he was seeking. And think about it, at that age at 13, as if life isn't hard enough already. So anyway, and so I think for him, what happened was, you know, this is a life we all need to be connected, you know, in some way or another.

And so if you start out here and that's not working, well, then you're going to go here. And if that doesn't work, well, then you're going to go here. And so eventually Griffin found himself, you know, for him, people that were comfortable. Only they weren't helping him making very good decisions because they themselves were in the same boat. And as, you know, we talked about it's when you're at that age, it's typically if we've all dabbled in something, at least dabbled in it. However, if you're 13, 14, 15, 16, and you kind of are going down a string of, these are, this is who I'm hanging out with and this is what I'm doing. I'm not telling you about it, but this is what I'm doing.

Then typically there's something that is not allowing you to function as others would, as most others would. So you're saying that sort of self-check doesn't exist. There doesn't hit a point where they're like, hey, this is hurting us. This is look at your body, whatever. We don't have a job, et cetera. No, it's just what my next drink is or what my next whatever is. And if you don't mind me asking, what was your son? What was like, was he a drinker?

Was he? So I think it started out as, uh, pot, maybe some alcohol. Then it went to things I've never heard of until that time, which was like cough syrup mixed with something juice or Coke or whatever. The sysurp and all that stuff. Yeah. I learned about it from rap videos.

You sound like me. We eat and alcohol or like as far as I ever have gone in my life. Shrooms a little bit. That's it. No acid, no cocaine. I'm scared. I'm scared of it. Then it was Zanny bars, which I don't even know what they are.

Zan. X. Yeah. Well, I know that from comedians who take them to fly. Okay, super. But then eventually it became into a world, which I've, you know, never like, uh, I forget what it was. They sound like pharmacists. There was something else, something else. And then eventually heroin. And, um, and then that's what ultimately got him is, is he was, sober. So the visions was the place we'd found. It was in Malibu. Don't think of Malibu as a, you know, a billion dollar mansion on a cliff. This was in the city limits of Malibu, but it was at a house with other kids his age. And, and, and then from there, I want to say that was three months-ish.

And then from there, he stayed in visions, but in an outpatient program. So he basically slept at home and was at visions all day into the evening. And so that's the best I ever saw him ever, ever, in his whole life. It's the most confidence I ever saw him had in his life. So they had reintroduced school, but not the traditional school. So this was a very one-on-one, two-on-one. one ratio. And one of his teacher's aides, I'm still in touch with. She's married now and has her own family and lives out in Anderson, Nevada. And it's just, and she's a teacher. So I just

think that it's the first time in his life that I ever saw him have confidence in learning, anything. And I remember, so this. This was, I want to say outpatient program was probably a year and a halfish. And I remember sometime during that time, and I think Wednesday nights where the time with parents could come and, you know, they had like a group. Here's what's been going on this week. And it was more like a conversation where the parents have sat and watched. And I remember being blown away by how insightful all these kids were.

And I remember there was a point in time when Griffin had said, you know, thank God, I'm here. Because otherwise, I would have been dead or in jail or not doing what I'm doing now. To the end of that period of time when he said, oh, no, that was his brainwashing. Well, no, it wasn't. And I wish that he had, I wish visions had another way or there was another, like Griffin, in my opinion, never should have gone back to high school. And do you say that because of the environment and the kids there and stuff? Yeah, well, they're not, as I expressed a few minutes ago about the way his brain worked, there was never going to come a day. where Griffin's going to thrive in a class of 40 people.

That's never going to happen. So he didn't belong in that environment because now he's back again. Like, he's feeling everything. That's, yes. And it's not because he's dumb. Right. It's just because he couldn't pay attention. Like, physically couldn't do it.

And what that must do to you is a person mentally, like, I'm a failure. Correct. I'm going to go hang out with these other failures. And you're going to hide everything about it. And so they're like you're suffering. in silence his whole life. So how long, I have two questions, too, because your era of football, are you guys, the painkillers and stuff, are you starting to see the pills come in back then and stuff, all these oxies and crap that everyone's addicted to? Or was that sort of you're at the end

of, like, as you're leaving football, are you seeing that come in more and more versus whatever, you know, whatever they used to use, the shots and the rolands and shit? Right, right. No, so. So the most I ever took was Vicodin. But I didn't take it like it was candy. And it was, you know, as I recall, it would have been, you know, something like that I would have only taken if pain or, you know, like after surgery or something. Yes. Broken arm, leg, yeah, excruciating. Yeah.

Which was part of the rehab, right? So eventually you have to get from the hospital bed home and then eventually you've got to start your physical therapy. Well, in there are two or three days where, you know, there's going to be reason to take Vicodin. but I was never addicted to anything like that. And then that was it. And I was never a drinker. No, you never a drinker. So I have to ask you, like, how, when, where are you when you find out about your son?

I was home. So Friday night, Griffin's team had played St. Bonaventure at Venture College. and I remember meeting, you know, or picking him up back at Thousandex High School after the game. And then so we're, my wife and I were separated. And so I was, but we didn't live far from each other. And we had lived in Aguirre Hills at the time. And so as we're driving back, he asked me, he says, So the name of the coach I played for at Pierce College was Jim Fenwick.

At this time, he was coaching at Valley College. And he said, do you think Coach Fenwick would be okay if I tried out for football? Now, keep this in mind. Griffin had never mentioned in his life to me something about the future, never. Whoa, that's interesting. I thought you were going to say football. You said the whole future. Well, this concerned football, but it's concerned football.

but it's concerned football next year. Right. Never. Never. And so we must have, as we drove home and then we pulled up, we must have sat out in front of Marchand's house for 45 minutes at least. All this whole conversation was sort of initiated and driven by Griffin. That alone was like, wow, this has never happened before.

So the next day, which is Saturday, there's a youth football game going on at Agora High School. And so I go over because I knew a couple of kids playing in it. And so I was sitting with one of the moms and her husband and just watching the game. and I see Griffin and Dylan so Dylan had just gotten through playing his season

and used football and I see him and Griffin just kind of hanging out playing catch didn't think anything of it went home get a call in the morning from Lostville Sheriff's apartment

and I didn't I didn't even think to ask how did you get my number but they said, would you mind coming down to the Lost Hill Sheriff's station? And I said, well, no, but why?

And I said, oh, well, we'll tell you when you get here. And, um... What time of morning is this? I don't know, nine, ten-ish. And they fucking won't tell you? Hmm. So you... But I knew it couldn't be good.

It's definitely... I didn't know what was going on. It's definitely not good if the sheriff is inviting you to the station. Correct. Man, but then what's going on in your mind could be, and it could be anything. It could have been anything. All I know is I'd never been called by a sheriff before. And so, anyway, it wasn't far from my house.

So I pull up right in front as I'm walking up the steps, an officer walks out and meets me before I even get inside and says something effective, Griffin didn't make it through the night. So we end up How old was he? He was 18. And what does that mean didn't make it through the night? Why, he passed away. I mean, was he, did they find him and was he in a hospital? Were they trying to save him?

Well, no, I can tell you the story of what happened. You comfortable doing that? Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah. So, I get into his car and we, were driving over to the house that he was at. And so I called, so Dylan that night was sleeping over a friend's house.

And so I called the dad and I said, I gave him a quick little, as best I could scenario of what's going on. and I said, would you mind hanging on to Dillon a little longer? And then I'll call you and I'll tell you when I'm home. And so, oof, all of it, Eric. I'm putting myself in that dad shoes too. Like, fuck, this poor kid's about to find out. And I know ahead of them. I got a smile.

And oh, man. Yeah. So we walk in. And at first, I sit down at the kitchen table, and the woman walks in, and I know her from Alon. So, and we're just talking to the table and then about, I can't even remember what. And so then my friend from high school who works at the Los Angeles Sheriff's Department, he comes in. So obviously he got a phone call and knew what happened. And so Chris and I and this woman are sitting at the table and then her son comes in.

and he's right away talking about whatever happened that night, not implicating himself in any way. So I didn't think anything about it. I just sat there and listened to whatever he's. I didn't exchange with him anything. And then eventually it was time to go back and see Griffin's body, basically. And it's the only dead body I've ever seen in my life. Oh, are you kidding me?

Even growing up as a kid, you never saw a grandparent or anybody like that. Oh, my God. No. That's horrific. And he was laying face up. And so, you know, I just, there's not a lot I remember other than just sobbing. And it's just a reality that eventually hits you like, he's not coming back. I care what you do.

And he's a baby. Yeah, yeah. And then my good friend Robert Espinoza, who is the kid's godfather, comes in and I don't really remember. I just remember seeing him. And then eventually we got home. I, you know, left and went back home. And then Griffin came. I mean, Dylan. And I remember. I remember the exact chair we were both sitting in. And that was not only the worst day of my life of finding out and Griffin passing away, but the second worst part of that day was telling Dylan. And he fractured into, it was like taking a vase and just slamming on a concrete floor. He broke into a million pieces. I'm sure.

He was 13 years old. One plus one equals more of the greatest stories. Hulu on Disney Plus. Stories about our survivors. The most dangerous planet. Family. Retribution. Murder.

Prophecy. Fear and propane. Pantta. The ultimate soldier. The best of the best stories now with even more from Hulu. Amazing. Have it all with BYU on Disney Plus. So can I ask?

You're ex. Do they call her as well, the police separately, or do you have to tell her? No, I think they called her. I don't remember her coming in the room, though. But anyway, so back to that kid. Okay. It's back to... A kid that didn't implicate himself. David Nernard. David Nernberg. Yep. So... Wait, can we pause this for a second? No, no, no, wait. The last name. N-N-N-N-E-R-N-B-B-B-R-N.

Yes. That's the last name of the people that own this building. It's not him. He's not one of them. Are they related anyway? I'm sorry. I'm sorry. But my point is, he spent a lot of time telling me what he didn't do.

It was all a lie. So I didn't pay, there was an investigation. Also, you're going through. God knows what emotions you're going through. It was kids over here saying it. But, yeah, that's the most important. thing is what I didn't do. Yeah, well, I'm just saying, like, for me, I didn't care about the investigation.

That wasn't going to bring him back. I didn't care. There was a court, whatever. I didn't care about that. I do remember getting a phone call from the detective. And he said, here's what happened. He goes, that kid, he said, they drove into a cul-de-sac in the Gurra Hills. and that kid, apparently Griffin was afraid of needles.

And so that kid injected Dylan in his toes. His toes? Yes. And then... Is that so it's not visible? I don't know and I don't care. But the point was Griffin had an immediate reaction, like a seizure-like reaction.

eyes roll back, foaming at the mouth. And so this kid, David, starts driving him and calls a bunch of his friends. What do I do? What do you do? Take him to the hospital. He didn't. Call 911 on the way. Or take him to the hospital.

Yeah. So drive up. And he didn't. Here's what he did do. He drove him back to his house. Now, by then, Griffin was already gone. He was. So if he wasn't, he was on the verge.

So he would have had to drag him out of his car into the house. Yeah, he's not walking in. Lay him down on his bedroom floor and then go out to a party. Oh, forgot about that part. He went to a party and left him there. Left him for dead. Is he arrested? So he ended up getting probation.

Hold on a second, dude. That's, I mean, if it's not murder, I feel like it's at least attempted murder. You did nothing to attempt to help this person that you knew was dying. Well, you put him in his head. Where's the mom? So he's responsible for injecting him, which to me is a murder weapon. You stabbed somebody. What's the difference?

I stabbed you. You bled out through your toes. Who cares where you? bled out or whatever. I stabbed you. So, you know, Griffin's dead, mostly because of Griffin's own inability to get through life. That's the fact. I mean, that's coming from his dad and that is a tough pill to swallow. Even for me as a son to hear, I'm like, you're right. But the company he kept had a big hand in the reason Griffin's no longer here. So, fast forward.

So I think he was convicted of involuntary manslaughter. So this past year, I think it was, my girlfriend and I go to Detroit for a Lions game. And while there, I get a phone call, which there's no name attached to it. It's just a number. So I said, hello. And the person on the other than the line is crying. It's a male cry, a person crying. And I said, who is this?

He says, I can't tell you who it is. I said, well, if you know who I am, I need to know who you are. This is crazy. This has happened to you at the game while you're at the game. No. But while you're in Detroit. In Detroit. So.

And I, and I, knew right away who it was. It was him? Yeah. Was it? Yeah. So he says, I can't tell you my name, but I can tell you my mom's name. It's Karen.

I said, all right. I don't care about Karen. What's your name? And he said, David. So, all right. David what? David Nuremberg.

It's all right. So I spent the next hour talking to him as though I was his therapist, getting him to breathe, calm down, relax. And I said, so. Sorry, how old is he now? I couldn't tell you. 30s? Yeah, 40s. Yeah. So he's talking about his own daughter and all this. And so a couple days go by, now I'm back home. And I, I text him and I said, please. call me when he gets second. So eventually he does.

And I'm walking into Costco. So I pulled off and I'm sitting over. And I said, I wanted to throw something by you. I said, how would you like to drive me around and explain to me what happened that night? Wait, you mean like a reenactment of the night? Yeah. He's going to take you here and you. Wow.

Yeah. I said, this is for you, not me. I don't really need to know anything. And it went from that to him wanting me to testify on his behalf that that his daughter's mother is suing him for custody or something. Nowhere in there do you even say I'm sorry. So here I had written him off for the rest of my life, never even thought. thinking about him. He kicks his way in the door, metaphorically. I've been thinking about you for a while, for sure. But he reenters my life. Now he's got me thinking about him where he was gone from my life.

So, and he kept at it. And so my girlfriend did some research on him and found the detective that was actually investigating. So they knew all about Griffin. They knew all about his conviction. and Anna had sent him the detective, the printed out text where I say, don't ever contact me again. So this detective told Anna, and she said, if he ever does, let me know, and we will arrest him.

That's been quiet since? It's been quiet since, yeah. I want you to, because you said something to me too, like for parents out there who who myself included naively think oh you you're messing with just the wrong crowd so you stumbled onto these drugs and now you're an addict or whatever you're saying not every single one of these kids is that there are some people who right and i told david nernberg on the phone that first time when he called i said i don't hold you anymore responsible than hold griffin i looked at the both of you as kids that

weren't, you know, if I told him, I said, if the rolls had been reversed, I'm not sure Griffin would have the wherewithal of the right thing. Where is this coming from in you than versus the Karen that would come out or the Papa Bear or whatever? Where is this, you know, enlightenment coming from where you're not like fuck this guy and all that? Where? Where is that coming from?

Well, I think that's sort of just my nature anyway. But I think years, whether it be therapy or whether it be Alon itself, I just think there's an awareness over time that comes with knowing that we've all got our obstacles. And you can't always see what they are. They're not always obvious, but they're there. And so I think we're at our best when we're not judging someone else. That kind of stands in the way of everybody's best side. Well, said. Let me ask you this now as a father.

You've got a 13-year-old son now. Well, he's 27. But I mean, at the time, my apologies, at the time. He's 13. Are you terrified, hyper-vigilant? Like, how do you become as a dad when it comes? comes to him now entering this world of possible drugs, alcohol, all that. Right. Well, that goes back to they were completely different. So as people and as young

people, they were completely different. Dylan didn't have the hurdles that Griffin had. And so I think we were especially attuned to just surrounding him really with as much love and support as possible. And I remember he was in eighth grade. And we'd been to meet with the principal and all the administrators and his teacher. and it was decided that the best thing to do that year was just let him go to school without the, without the expectation of doing any school work, mostly just for the socialization of it. If you wanted to do something, great.

If you didn't want to do something, great. And I think that first year, for him was exactly what he needed. I mean, you know, because not only did Dylan lose a brother, he lost his hero too. And so, as you might imagine, there was a five-year age gap. And so given Griffin's internal frustrations with life himself, well, who do you think got the brunt of that? Dylan. And it was about the last six months of Griffin's life where that started to turn.

And Dylan noticed that. Griffin became more self-aware of himself. And in a way that translated to Dylan as, hey, you don't have the hurdles I have. And you don't need to make the decisions I made. And in talking with Dylan, he was like, you know, what was so great about that is it wasn't even with just me. He did that with other people.

and and so again you know Dylan caught a glimpse of what was truly on Griffin's inside briefly and then

again you know and to hear him talk about that night so I didn't know what was going on and it was really Dylan was with a group of friends and they were kind of playing catch and the ball got away and rolled over

to where Griffin was sitting. Dylan didn't even know he was there. And so they start playing catch, the crowd dissipates, and they're just hanging out themselves playing. And Dylan was like, that was the greatest night of my life. And then that next morning,

you know, later that night, he goes and sleeps over to his friend's house thinking everything is, what it is, and only to wake up and be delivered to the news he was going to receive. Yeah. And you're saying, I want to be correct here, within a year and a half time now, you lose your son, your mom passes, and your dad gets diagnosed with cancer all in a year and a half. Yeah. So this was all in 2011 is when Griffin passed away, October 30th. Earlier that year, it was actually the day after Mother's Day. And on Mother's Day, we were hanging out, playing golf, in fact.

And so I'm walking out of the car, she says, you know, I'm going to get some tests back tomorrow. And I said, test for what? And she said, oh, you know, I don't know, I haven't been really feeling all that great lately. I said, okay. Well, the next day, she finds out she's got stage four uterine cancer. She's out there golfing at this moment. At what age? Well, she was born in 1944.

So this was 2011. So what was that? 67? 66. 66. So anyway, she was remarried and she went, she underwent a very. and she underwent eventually some radical surgery where they removed like, I'm not an astronaut.

I don't need an astronaut. Audiences have spoken. Project Hail Mary is an awe-inspiring masterpiece. So, I met an alien. If you've fallen out of love with going to the movies, this one will bring you back. Ryan Gosling, in the first must-see movie of 2026. Project Hail Mary, only beaters March 20th. Parts of a few organs.

And then she was, you know, like, I guess woke up from it, okay, eventually. But then she had this neuropathy, and she also had to get chemotherapy. So I remember going to Tarzana Hospital with her and sleeping over. And, you know, she had the bed. I had the chair turned into a rollout, basically a padded platform. And it was that year that, you know, we really became close. And it was kind of everything about her that she cared about that was, I'll just use the word nitpicky.

went away. And we grew very close during that time. I mean, I'm just getting in my feelings here because right now what I'm hearing is you've got a dad who's lost a son. That's a grandma who's lost a grandson also. Now, you're about to lose your mom and mom's about to lose everything. Yeah. Yeah. Man. And you know after Mother's Day that she's got stage four. So now you know it's not like, oh, well, we're got 10, 20 years, you know damn well. I just buried my son and this is going to be coming quick. Yeah. And how quick? Yeah. Well, how fast? Honestly, I didn't think about it in terms of like time or how many days left or anything like that. I mean, she looked good right up until she didn't. And how long did she make it after the diagnosis?

So what was that? May and July 12th, the next year, when she passed away. So roughly a year, a little over. And I remember she was at West Hills Hospital, right? And so there's, I don't know, six or eight of us there. And the doctor asked us to come into another room. And he says, okay, Eileen's a name. She goes, your mom's not going to make it. And it's now time to either have hospice here or go home and have hospice. And we all go back out. And the doctor ends up telling you. And you know those little triangle bars that hang down in front of you? Yeah.

The doctor explains to her what the scenario is. And she goes, huh. And she pulls herself up and starts doing pull-ups with the triangle bars. No, your mom. With cancer. She goes, I feel fine. Get the fuck out of you, for me. That's crazy.

Yeah, so she's proving everybody. She's like, what are you talking about? I'm fine. Oh, my God. So anyway, yeah, she goes home, you know, I don't know how long, three, four, five days with the hospice. And, I mean, hospice nurses are unbelievable and just amazing, amazing people. Agreed.

And, you know. But now your dad's also there saying his good. Well, yeah. And so that last year before she passed away, I think it was a year before that actually, there was a Thanksgiving that my mom and her husband invited my dad. So there's probably, I don't know, 15, 16 of us. And I still have that picture. That's nice. And so yeah, around the time she passed away, he had some acid reflux that went undetected, that eventually turned into acid, I mean, esophageal cancer. Is that right?

Listen, that shit can happen to us? I'm telling you. Years of acid reflux eventually just eat your esophagus and turns into cancer. Yeah. I mean. And then there's no getting out of that one. No. And so, you know, that was about a three-year downward spiral that just kept getting worse and worse and

wars. And so it was really, you know, if you've ever seen somebody over time go go spiral downward, that is not an easy thing. And, you know, because they start, like he, started losing his ability to swallow. And he just, his strength was evaporating. And eventually he ended up, he went from one assisted living facility to another, eventually, getting closer to me. And it's just, that's why I think, you know, and I was growing up for various reasons, I was never close to either of my parents.

And like I said, I think when we're at our most vulnerable, which is those times when you're really, really sick, I think you end up laying down all the things that used to get in your way with other people. I don't know how that works, but it works. And unfortunately, it works late in the game. Yep, very often too late sometimes. Yeah, yeah. So obviously you're going through mental hell and you decide to take your life.

Yeah. When does that happen? Had you ever even had you ever tried to commit suicide before? Never. None of your younger days. You have a son? Yes. So how are you coming to that decision?

I know not easily, but right. And so know this. So Anna, who I've, we knew each other when we were 15 or 16 years old. And we've been friends for life. And now we're more than friends. There was a time during my recovery. She was the one that was there every second. And in subsequent years, she would call it my accident.

I said, Anna, this was planned down to the nth degree. There was no accident here. Well, a couple more years go by. And then I realized that my ability to, discern like I do now was not there. So my ability to my my perspective on my own life wasn't there. So I told her I said, you're right. It was an accident because you don't you can't accurately assess the damage your decision is going to cause. You just can't. No. And I happened to do this the day before Dylan's first day of class, his junior year.

I had no idea. Jeez. And you said it was planned down to the T, you comfortable telling us what the plan was. Sure, sure. What did you do? I did everything you could, everything you would do if you knew you were going to die, which was okay wait

stop right here for saying because I'm with you here like I've never tried anything like that I'm even over here what do I do am I shooting and my pills and my cud like what do I'm right now I'm talking to the people who are kind of thinking in terms of their living trust

the living will and trust so what do you decide to do this? Okay, so how I'm going to do this, I'll get to in a minute. But I basically wanted to know, I wanted everybody, I wanted to account for everybody financially. I wanted to make sure that Griffin, excuse me, Dylan was looked after and just things that you would never do that don't matter. Like to the people who I who I laid this all out for

Do you think they care a second about a penny? No. Nope. And so... Did you leave a video or is it just a living? Okay, all right. But I remember going to Peter Wakeman's office, who's my trust attorney.

And I remember basically, drawing all this up, knowing what I'm going to do, but knowing I can't tell him what I'm going to do. Right. And it's just a bizarre set of circumstances. And then what I, so now at this time, Dylan was living with Morshan full time. Because what had happened was a few months after Griffin got out of the outpatient program

So he was 18 again, Dylan was 13. At that time, they were going back and forth between Marchand's house and my house, even though he didn't live that far apart. It was like they would spend part of the week at her house, part of the week at my house, and so forth. And so Griffin said, you know what, I don't want to do that anymore. So when he didn't want to, Dylan didn't either. And so, but I didn't want to. So I was going to purchase a gun, which I ultimately did, and shoot myself. But I didn't want to do it at my house because I did want to take the chance of Dylan being the one to walk in the door.

So you're going to blow your brains out. That's how you're going to do this. Yeah, yeah. And you're going to do it with a handgun. Yep. And you went that you didn't own already. No, never have a gun on my life. So how long was the process to get a damn gun?

we don't or we don't need to talk about it. No, no, I'll tell you everything. So I... Because you know you can go to Walmart parking lot and get one today. I could. I didn't, but I could. That's what I'm saying. So also you went through the proper paperwork.

I did. And that's giving you more time to consider this or reconsider this. Yeah, so here's what happened. So I go find a place, a gun store in Seamy Valley that I go and I've no idea what I'm going to get. So I'm walking around inside this gun store knowing internally what my reason for being here is. And yet I'm thinking I got to look like that's not what I'm here for. And so I eventually get this Sig Sauer 9mm gun, which to me is no different than any other gun.

And so I purchase it. And now the rules are, laws are, you can't take. it with you. There's some period of time that has to go by. Okay, so our horses staying at the stable for now. Yeah. Okay. So, um, I, and this is in 2015. This is in the springtime, sometime. I don't remember what month. And so, um, then I make a phone call to, um, Eric Hippel. Eric Hippel is a former quarterback with the Lions who played throughout the 1980s in Detroit. My first year was 1990. But he still lives there, so we got to know each other a little bit.

And so Eric, he says, hey, if you're not feeling so great, get on an airplane. And he goes, I'm actually part of a program that it's with the University of Michigan. and we've got a what's technically described as a depression center. Get on a plane and come. So I said, okay. So I fly out there and Eric picks me up and it's basically, it's not on the University of Michigan campus. It's basically a farmhouse out in the middle of nowhere. And so I'm about as depressed as you can be.

And so, and I think going there, you know, after about a day, I call it. So there was the people that were there that included me were maybe seven or eight people. Most of them, I believe, were like military PTSD people and me. And so being there day after day, for the first couple of days, I called up Eric and I said, I don't think this is the right place for me. And so he comes and we're literally walking around this farm. And he's like, if you can just stick it out for the 30 days, I said, okay. So there wasn't one day there that was like, this is great.

Not one. Not one. Because that's not how the pressure works. Yeah, there's no light switch to flip on. You know what? It's a great fucking point. I did just recently see a post that said, they're lying to us. And this guy said, I've, I've slept in the best hotels. I've dined in the best restaurants. I've traveled the world.

I'm fucking miserable. It's not about. No, it's not about your surroundings. I remember Anna, okay? This is before I went there, she goes, you know, she has a timeshare in Hawaii. She goes, I'm taking my daughters, and we're going to this time. She said, why are you getting on a plane and go with us? I go, Anna, you don't understand.

I don't care where I go. I'm the one that's getting off the plane. I'm still stuck with me. Yeah. Yeah. And so. But you stuck the 30 out. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. But. You still had to wait on that. So, okay, let me get to that. So while there, okay, while there. I don't remember half of the stuff that took place. So apparently, there was, there's something called a Q-E-E-G test. So it's where they strap some electrodes on your head, and it's a brain mapping.

I don't remember any of that. You actually did it. You don't even remember it. Correct. That's definitely something I feel like we'd all remember, you know. Oh, yeah, since it's once in a lifetime. that I've done it. No, don't remember it. You would think. So I fly home. I don't remember flying home. I now remember, I don't remember a friend of mine told me, yep, I picked you up and I actually

stayed with you for a few days and you actually told me the gun store that you purchased the gun at. And you didn't remember doing any of that? No. He goes, Chris goes, I took your ID out of your wallet. I drove over to that gun store. He goes, I told them if this guy ever comes in here, this is what he's going to do with that gun. So now what? What's plan B? So I'm just saying, I never knew any of that happened. So I come home.

Oh, yeah. And eventually, while home, Chris goes to the gun sewer. I didn't even, I don't remember any of that. He told me that later, years, you know, a couple years later. and so did you remember you were waiting for a gun? I knew it was there. You know what I mean? Yeah, I knew I'd purchased it, but I didn't really think about it.

In fact, when I went, I didn't think it would be there. Yeah. You know, I didn't know. You went, and it was there. And it was there. And so here I am purchasing this gun, trying to look like I'm not going to purchase it to kill myself. And, but there I walked out of the story with it.

They let you have it? They did, yeah. After he went in and said, this is the fucking guy. Also, I can show you NFL highlights. What he could have. Right. What he should have done was like get a cardboard, you know, stand up. You know, here, this guy.

He's got to be coming. And leave it there. And they let you go anyway. They did. Son of a bitch. Yeah. Yeah. So, and it wasn't like I missed.

So. So. Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! So basically the day comes, and I've got everything sort of in its place, as I've told you. This really is the most thought-out tidiest goodbye.

Right. And so I had, you know, handwritten several letters, obviously, one to Dylan. And then I went to basically a motel in Calabasas. Called the Good Night In, ironically. I know where that is. I passed the child. And you got yourself a room at the Good Night Inn? I did.

That's where you were going to take your life out. Yeah. The Good Night In. Why there? Why did you pick their closest thing? Because it wasn't home. It was anywhere else. Yeah, it was anywhere else.

And you didn't want to do it outside or in your car. You wanted to fucking made to clean that shit up over. That room was going to be. out of commission for help. And so here's a... Do you remember the room number? I don't. I don't.

But here's what I... Here's another thing that happened that I don't remember. Is that... So, I shot myself under my chin. Oh. And... Are you sitting on the bed? Yes.

And just like this. Yes. So I think I was leaning back against the headboard, right? Okay. And shot myself. And there I am. So prior to doing that, I had texted several people. What do you mean?

Oh, texted. I thought you said tested. Oh, no, no. Texted like with an X. Several people basically saying goodbye. And so one of those people was Chris German, the same one I had told you about earlier. And Chris was out of town getting his son into college in New Orleans. Didn't receive the text until sometime after.

So he calls my cell phone and there's no answer. So he calls the hotel and asks for my room, which they ring the room. Apparently I picked up. No, get the fuck out of here. After you shot yourself in the face, You answered a phone? All I'm selling is what I've been told. Did he say you say could you talk?

He could hear gurgling. So what he said was, Eric, if whatever's in your hand, drop it. And he heard something hit the ground. You still had a gun in your hand. I guess. So then he goes, Eric, there's somebody at your door. right now that's there to help you. So apparently, I got up.

No, get the fuck. I went to the door. Oh my God, dude. And I walked down into the ambulance. What? Bleeding and I, you had to be. Right. Did you ever see the shirt after it had to be covered?

I never see the shirt. I didn't see the, I don't know where the gun is. Hold on. You shot yourself under the chin. Yeah. And somehow answered that phone and walked. yourself to the ambulance. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I'm told. Okay. What is the actual first thing you remember as you come to from that? Are you in the hospital? Like, what do you remember

hearing anything? So apparently, no, I don't remember any of what happened that night. I apparently, I was placed in a coma for a few weeks, like six weeks. And then I eventually went from, that was at Northridge Hospital. And then I went from Northridge to UCLA for their brain trauma unit for a couple weeks. And as I'm there, some woman comes into my room and introduces herself as Rose. I can't remember her last name.

And she says, I'm with, well, I'm with, well I don't remember it then but it was Center for Neurals C&S I said okay great I thought she just wanted in the room just floating around there and shit yeah yeah and so as it turned out it was Anna and my aunt Patrice had found this place and they it was at that time it's now in Tarzanah but at that time

it was in Encino, not far from Balbo and Ventura Boulevard. And so, but they also had two houses that weren't attached, but you drove to them, right? So they had people like me living there. And so, and they had picked out the house I would, the house and the room. Like there was one that was more near a freeway. They were both near the freeway, but one was more near the off ramp. And my aunt goes, no, I don't want him walking up that offer. Oh, good point, yeah.

So I was, you know where Candy Caney Lane is? Of course, I know. The one I stayed was on Martha Street over there. I know exactly. I drive it every year. Yeah. So it's getting less and less as the years go on these days, though. But it's a great.

For all of us, right. So let me ask you. So that's where I was. What do you know the list of your damages? Like what ended up happening? So. I used also said brain, but also mouth. Right.

So the bullet went up through my tongue, through my navel cavity. No! Somehow didn't hit my optic nerve. It really did go up. It's not like you flinched or it went in. Oh, man. So a good friend of mine from high school, Don Tegals, he's my optometrist. He goes, how did this thing miss your optic nerve?

I don't know. So later, I go and I'm talking with the server. surgeon that saved my life. I coached his uncle, his nephew in football, and Dr. Kerner. And so he goes, what happened was, he goes, by putting it under your chin, the gun actually kicked forward. He goes, had it gone backward, you wouldn't be here.

so the recoil kicks it forward which is what enabled it to go street yeah bro is that the greatest fucking pass you think you've ever made your goddam oh how you're talking about threading the needle bro that is not i've never heard that analogy but if that was it was there was there's never been an analogy word spoken that are more true than that threading the needle that's what i'm talking about The, I mean, the odds, the sheer odds. Which, right? So, like. Okay, so what's recovery now?

I'm keeping you longer. I can't help us. What is the recovery for this? So wait, I got to stop. It's several years. It's the mouth, the teeth. The, the, every, can you smell okay now? No.

But you can see fine? Yeah. Are you wearing contacts? I wear contact. No. So nothing with the vision. No. You smell's gone.

Smell's gone. You blew your tongue up. Right. So taste is somewhat. Taste is tied to smell anyway. I lost mine during COVID, so I get it. Yeah. But your teeth look fucking great.

Well, they did have some work done. I can tell. But still, they look great. Thank you. Are you pulling them out at night? No, no. Yeah. Right.

It should be. No, at least there's some there. But tell us about your head. Yeah. So that was a real thing is that there was a period of time where I didn't have a forehead. What do you mean? So if you, so I'm going to turn to the side, okay? So if you were looking at me from this angle, my head would have gone like that.

Oh, like the slow-stop. It was a slant to it, yeah. So what you see now. For how long was that? I'm not sure. My guess is it would be several months. Are you wearing hats and sure you band? Yeah, I had to wear helmet.

No. No, I had to wear like what you would wear like to go. skateboarding. The irony of a retired football guy whose career was a helmet happened to wear any other helmet in his life is absurd.

Right, in case I fell. That's crazy. Could you have gotten like an old lion's one with the face mask off? I probably could have. They're probably more supportive than the skating ones these days. Probably right.

But it was funny how Anna tells the story she goes, you know, you would look at yourself in the mirror and you'd go, huh, I wonder how that got there. And then there you walk away. So what's actually in here? So it's, I guess it's some sort of NASA design plastic. It's plastic.

Yeah. It's not a metal or aluminum or titanium. It's plastic. Turn aside again. To my knowledge. Great. Right. Yeah.

It's flawless. Yeah. I mean, this is, I think it's better than Botox, bro. You know what I mean? Everybody should just go get a plastic forehead. Why not? Okay, so how, like, is it, if you ever fucking headbutted something, could it dent? No.

Okay, but is it also, can you, if you're in a fight, is it a weapon? I've never been in a fight with it. Have you, have you fucked around a little bit? Have you fucked around a little bit? No. You're a dude. Come on. You haven't fucked around a little bit.

Not even a little bit. Not even. No, I've been on, I've been back where your head's damaged. I've been in that life before. It took me a while to get out. Good point. It took two months to get that for it. We don't need to be ramming it around.

But I mean, you ask, what's the recovery like? The recovery is substantial. Well, so it's not just one thing. It's your fucking face. Yeah. And it's, it's, so it's been a decade now. Okay. So, but it's, it mentally.

It look amazing. Thank you. But I hear you. Please continue with the mentally. But I was going to say, like, the mental, uh, cognitive, you know, your brain is capable of doing so many things, which mine wasn't. And like, we could be sitting here like we are now and I leave. And five minutes after I left, I wouldn't remember being here.

None of it. None of it. That's very concussiony. Correct. But worse. Yeah, way worse. But that just, yeah, I don't even remember. But then when someone would tell you something, no, we talked about, would that start to trigger at least?

Like, I was always a hangover guy like that. Like, I wouldn't remember. And then people could, no, we did this. And it's like, oh, yeah, yeah, I remember now. If someone prompted. But even you could. Not even with planting. No, I have no idea.

So for the better part of, I'd say, between two and three years, I don't really remember a whole lot. So it wasn't like, you know, oh, I hit the three year mark. Now I remember. Okay. So there's. gradual. But as your memory serves you now, you can remember childhood, some NFL stuff. There's a gap.

Well, like I said, there's that, you know, between, let's say the end of 2015 until sometime in 2017, which is when I was married. A lot of trauma. Right? I mean, so I was during the time of incapacitation. Yeah. It was when I basically got kidnapped and married. Yeah.

Oh, my God. Yes. Can we talk about this? Sure. Sure. We're going. Go ahead, please. So it was during that time that I was medically incapacitated.

But yet the legal system, it's called conservancy. So the conservatorship court system is supposed to protect individuals like me who, for whatever reason, are in some way incapacity. It's the only way you can be. become conserved. You can't, oh, I lost my arm and it got chopped off at the mill. Sorry. The leather arm, buddy. Yeah. So, but the conservative court system isn't set up to protect me. It's actually set up to reward lawyers and all those people that are professional conservators, lawyers, to keep me in the system as long as possible. So what happened to you? While you're, incapacitated, what happens?

Well, in comes a person named Courtney Baird who, after Griffin passed away, I was friends back then, not anymore, but with her brother, Dave. And so they're from the East Coast. And so I had seen Courtney on occasion over here and there. And then, so once Griffin passed away, that was in late October of 2011. For about two or three weeks, my house was flooded with people, not necessarily sleeping over, but there was sort of a constant stream. And then, so, you know, Griffin was playing football, right? And so a lot of the moms had gotten together,

they'd make stuff. And they'd put it in these big, I forget what you call them. There's these silver trays, right? And they'd be, so people would come in from out of town. And now everybody's gone. And a Saturday, and so I'm just home by myself, and there's a knock at the door, and it's Courtney.

And she brings over some cookies or who knows what. and we eventually get to talking. And apparently, Marcia, who was my ex-wife, one of the things that bothered me or that kept at me when Griffin passed away was, was he fully aware of how much I loved him? And so in talking with Courtney, she says, you know, Morshan had asked Courtney to come over on occasion and take Griffin to an AA meeting because Courtney

Courtney had some of that in her background. And so she did. And Courtney had a daughter. And so Courtney would leave her daughter with Morshan and off her and Griffin would go. And then she would say, oh, yeah, Griffin talked nonstop about how much she loved you and blah, blah, blah. Well, no, he didn't. Now I can tell you, no, he did not. That just wasn't his personality.

And I think that's the way she initially connected with me. And so we had within, I don't know, a month-ish, we were starting to hang out, I guess, more and more, and which I wasn't aware at the time of how painful that in itself was for Dylan. So she basically squirmed her way into my life two different occasions. And so being in a relationship with her eventually was a nightmare. And so eventually I broke it off in January of 2015. and so later that year is when I did this.

And Anna tells the story of, so if you remember, I was staying at this Martha House that was tied to Center for Neural Skills. Well, eventually later that year, 2015, the residential part of my insurance ran out. And so, Anna had arranged for me to live with my sister in Henderson, Nevada, and they found a NSEP, which is a Nevada community mission program, which is kind of like a CNS. Okay. And so there was two weeks there, though, where Anna was staying at my house, taking me to CNS, then driving on to her work in Santa Monica. coming back, picking me up and taking me home.

So after about eight or nine days of that, oh, and Anna also over the course of time, would take accounting classes, right? And so there was one day where she did all that, then went to an accounting class, which she was taking, I believe in Pasadena, comes back. Damn. Right?

I know the, yeah, the traffic. Yeah, the distance. So now it's probably, who knows, eight, nine o'clock. She walks in the door and guess who's sitting at the kitchen table with me? Courtney Baird. And I go, what was I saying? She goes, you weren't saying anything. It was Courtney just blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah forever.

And finally she's like, Courtney, you got to go. She got to get to bed and I got to get up in the morning. So Courtney leave. and then comes back the day we're leaving. And I was like, don't say gone too lot. Again, I don't remember any of this. So we go, and apparently I'm in, you know, I'm at this Nevada community remission,

which is taking place at one of the campuses for a southern Nevada community college, right? So apparently I was getting texts and phone calls nonstop. while I was at the place, to which they would have to pull, like, go out, find me, bring me back and say, hey, quit bringing your phone. And so eventually Courtney flies out and drives me home. So it's a four and a half hour drive. Yeah.

until he gone. You don't even have a forehead, bro. Well, I think by then I had the making of one. All right. But I'm saying, like, can somebody please protect us? It wasn't much prior to that that I didn't have one. You're right. So it's basically got dumped into the car with the piranhas. Yeah. Yeah. And so it wasn't long before that as we started looking at bank records where probably took her about three or four days to, she started off small. But then, um, uh, uh, eventually was, it was very apparent what she was doing. So comfortable saying how much she got? Yeah.

Over time, she probably stole 300,000. Get the fuck. And what? A couple years? Let's see. Yeah, about a couple years. $300,000. Yeah.

Oh, did she get caught? Yeah. And she forged four checks and she. Oh, shit. She got sloppy and everything. Yeah. But she also got protected. How?

The conservative, well, first of all, the, the detective, Courtney drives to his office, which is at the Chatsworth Courthouse, drives there thinking she's going to get arrested. So she basically admits everything. She had forged four checks, and she stole about $50,000 at that point. And apparently, The detective, David Lingshite, says, hey, we're still conducting this investigation. Don't go anywhere. Move out of the house and let Eric's family get somebody to deal with him as far as, you know, caregiving.

She has no caregiving, period. So instead, so then David Lingshite takes that to the, assistant district attorney that was in charge of this case. And she tells him, no, I want you to get more evidence. So $250,000 more. Excuse me, more than an admission. Four blank checks and $50,000. So there's only one, there's only one suspect in this case who then comes in and admits it's me.

I've done everything. arrest me and you don't. So then the, I won't even spay your name, the assistant attorney, she basically punts the ball over to the conservatorship court system, which was a complete fiasco. I don't even know. They have their whole, excuse me, whole own court system for that conservative. Just for that. Yeah.

So I get appointed an attorney by the court. who comes to meet with me. Now, this is after Courtney and I are married, right? We got married on December 22nd, I believe, 2016. And so the investigation, as far as anyone's concern, was over. And all Anna and my aunt were trying to do was get the marriage annul. So to get that done, you need the, conservatorship of the estate, which was granted, then you need the conservatorship of the person.

So Michael Harrison was my court-appointed attorney who fought in court against me being conserved. The first person to testify that morning was David Lynchite, who under oath said Courtney Baird admitted to me of stealing $50,000. And writing four, Yes. Forging four checks. The next part of that, he walks out, goodbye. I don't even know he's there.

I don't even hear the words he says. Honor produced the court transcripts, so that's how I know he was there, and I spoke, and he spoke. And so Michael Harrison. You spoke in court and don't remember. Don't remember. Does that fucking blow you away also? Yeah. Like, that's court.

Right. You know what I mean? Not just this little time. You're going to fucking court. So, look, so picture the fact that, brain is wild. Picture the fact that you're, let's just insert you in here. You're my attorney. And you've got a, that was given to you.

You've got the neuropsychology report from Dr. Tomashevsky that says, I'm incapacitated. That says Courtney Baird is stealing from me a ridiculous amount of money, and I don't understand it. And you're representing to the court that out of your mouth comes these words. I'm as, what was the word he used? I'm as competent as anybody here in the courtroom. Referring to you. Me. He's representing me. He fought against me being conserved. And the judge says, well, who's going to, what legal remedy do you have for this? He goes, oh, well, the CPA. The judge says, well, what legal means does a CPA have of stopping

anything? Well, I don't know. So we walk out of the court that day and the court says, yes, your aunt can be your conservative. Okay. Because my aunt was trying to keep my constant. Right. The very next step was the conservatorship of the person. That was like a week or two later. So we're all there.

Court hasn't begun yet. Anna is sitting next to my aunt's attorney. Jonathan Cole. Michael Harrison, walks over and sits right next down and says, hey, rather than this conservatorship of the person, let's just do a post-nuptial agreement. So he didn't even understand that we're trying to get this marriage annulled. So had that happened that day, Courtney would have been court ordered to leave the house. So right then and there,

all monies, all stealing is gone. She's out of the house and now nullity proceedings begin. How long it takes? I don't know. But the theft is gone. I'm like, listen, everybody, basically this motherfucker's not even here. He's here in person. But everything else is not even fucking here.

He's not going to remember this shit. Got it. God, this is crazy. So now I'm married for about a little under a year and a half. You're about about a year and a half, I think. And so I'm trying to buy a house because the house I was in was renting. So I'm not trying to buy a house. And by this time, my aunt, it was too emotionally hard for her to be my conservator

because I couldn't see what was plainly in my face and what people were like her telling me, Courtney Baird is stealing from you. She's admitted to it. She's admitted to, she drove over there and admitted it. Told her on herself. Yes. Yeah, not just the regular people to the police.

And here's me. Huh? Jeez. So she's like, I can't. So they found this professional conservative, named Eileen Federizo. So her... Your memory for all these people's names

and everything also after everything and fucking happened to you is amazing. Well, I'm telling you, I'm good now. But we couldn't have had this conversation 10 years ago. I hear it. So, only because this is all been told to me. If we fucking promote this and you're like,

I don't even remember doing that show. So like, Anna and my aunt and Eileen Federizo one day meet. And they're going to tell her everything that's going on as to why you're even here. So they tell her about Courtney Baird, and they tell her about, this is a fraudulent marriage,

and they tell her about all, and they show her these are all the expenses that are fraudulent, one by one by one by one. And they're the same ones every month. So the way the process worked was, Raymond James Trust Department held all of my major finances. And so they had closed off my account, my normal account, and created a new one at Raymond James Trust Department.

And so the way it worked was the credit card bill or bills would come directly to the conservator, in this case, Eileen Federizo. Eileen Federiza would go through those bills and go fraud, fraud, fraud, fraud, fraud, fraud, fraud, fraud, fraud, fraud, fraud, fraud, fraud, fraud, fraud, fraud, fraud, fraud, fraud, fraud, fraud, fraud, fraud, fraud, fraud, fraud, fraud, don't pay, to pay. There's, there's, because remember, I was at home, so all my bills were getting paid, like electric bills and blah, blah, blah, blah. So guess how many of those $12,000 a month credit card bills, guess how many of those she actually said don't pay that? Zero. Zero times.

Wait, what? So she let all of it go by too? So if I told you every- Everybody's in on this. If I told you every expense that says ATM-C-beard, $700. If I tell you that is fraud, and then you become the conservator,

and then you see on the next bill, C-Baird $700, you don't flag that, yet you charge me $17,000. Your lawyer charged me $33,000. $50,000 went out the door to you and your lawyer, and what did you actually do? Nothing.

Here's the one thing, She did. When I went to buy that house, all the terms were finally agreed upon. And the house wasn't going through. I'm like, huh, did I get a phone call for my lien? No. I figured out that, oh, I'm conserved. And I'm conserved because Courtney Beard is stealing from me. That's all I knew. I didn't know how much. I didn't know that she had wiped out Griffin's $10,000 memorial fund that all came in after he'd passed away. I didn't know any of that. All I knew, I put corny-beard, conservatorship,

that's what's going on. So I go to, this is sometime in June, early June, 2018. I go, I know for about a week, but I'm not, I don't say anything. So eventually I go, And I play in this Bears alumni golf outing thing. I come back and it's probably 11, 1130 at night.

And Courtney is on the couch. Now, normally, she's up sleeping and not my bed, but some other bed in the house. And I'll come walking in the door and she springs off the couch. She goes, oh, how is golf? I said, all right. She goes, oh, well, how was Chicago? All right. And she goes, what's wrong?

I go, nothing other than I'm getting a divorce. She goes, oh, well, I'm not. And I said, fine with me, but I am. So I walk up and I go to bed and I guess I fell asleep and I guess I shut the door that she opens the door. She goes, I guess you don't want me sleeping in here. Now, mind you, she didn't slip in there. in how long she was in the house. So I go, no, I guess I don't.

So now I get up in the morning. And I can guarantee you she didn't sleep a second. So she's on the couch. I come down and make breakfast. I go sit outside. And she walks outside. And she goes, I want to talk about this. I said, about what?

She goes, but you're getting in her bars. She goes, I told you, I'm not getting one. I said, fine. Don't have to. I am. She goes, well, what are Macy and I going to do? That's her daughter. I go, well, you should have thought that before you started stealing from me.

She goes, I didn't steal from you. I go, okay. So I go, why don't you just, she stood up and I stood up. And I go, why don't you just go back in the house? And so she shrugs her hand off my, like, does this to get my hand up or something. She walks back in. And at that time, there was a dowel. a stick, right, that locked the door at a sliding glass door. So the front door is locked.

That's the only other way in the house. So I'm thinking, huh, how am I getting it back in the house? Well, I'll figure out later. I'll go back and read the paper. Well, I got my back to the door. So then I hear that thing pop out. So I go, okay. So eventually I go back inside. and she's now upstairs. And this is all probably, I don't know, six or seven of the morning. And so I notice, I remember there's some pictures of her, like maybe four or five. So I take them down and I stack them and I put them by the front door. And she goes, she comes downstairs and she says, what are these?

I go, there are pictures of you. and she starts putting him back up. And I walked right behind her and I take him down and I open the front door and I throw them out in the front door on the grass. So they're busting and whatever. And she walks upstairs and she goes, she shouts down, I'm calling 911. Super.

So I'm literally eight cop cars pull up eight seven, you know, more than one. More than one, less than ten, but more than one. And so I'm standing there inside, like I've opened the front door now. I was waiting for them walking up. And remember one of them says, there's a couple guys that walk up. And one of them says, looks like we've had a tough morning here. And I said, yeah. And the guy goes, did you put your hands in your wife?

Now I'm thinking back to when out in the back, I touched her back of her shoulder. I go, yeah. He goes, okay, step outside. Put your hands behind your back. So now I'm arrested and I'm walking toward the car, which I'm now being put in, and he's going, oh, and you can have OJ to think for this. Nah, he said that. Yeah.

Wow. Yeah. So I'm sitting in there, and now it's, you know, one cop car kind of kneeling down, door open. I'm sitting there. there was another guy over his shoulder and they're wanting me to talk about what happened. And I go, I'm not talking and nothing did happen.

So I eventually spent that night in jail. I didn't have my wallet with me. So later, I finally get Eileen Federizo. So I was a felon, I was charged with felony domestic violence, which carried with it a $50,000 bond. There's another 50. So I had to, it was, this was on a Sunday.

So I had to get a hold of her on a Monday, which then wired $50,000. And as long as I showed up a court, I got it back, which I did. So there was never any domestic violence of any kind ever, never in my life. And yet I get arrested for it. And so this brings in another lawyer now. Now I've got to get a criminal freaking defense attorney named Michael Norris. So somebody referred me to him. He's down in Redondo Beach.

So I drive down there and I'm basically telling him my story. And he goes, well, how much do you want to pay? And I go, I don't know, enough to make it worth it to you. and he goes, okay, I'll do this for you for 10 grand. Like, all right. So on my way home, now I'm going, you know what? You told me you didn't care how much. So I called him back.

I said, how about five? He goes, no, no, no. So we spent an hour on the phone. I go, you told me it didn't matter how much. Well, I'm telling you how much it is. It's five grand. So eventually we settled on that. During the course of this, so Ana had come to,

to the Van Nuys courthouse, which is where this was happening. She never showed up, not for one hearing. And I go to him, I go, never, ever, is there going to be a situation where I plead or I accept counseling or domestic violence counseling or any type of counseling at all? So, Alan and I both made that very clear on several occasions. The last time we go there. Now, Corny doesn't show up again. And Michael Harrison and the district attorney charge of my case

get called in, or actually Michael Harrison, what's his name? Anyway, Michael Norris. Michael Norris requests meeting with the judge in the judge's chambers along with the prosecutor. So he comes back out. He doesn't tell me what they talked about. So now the judge is basically saying, Eric, you agree to plead guilty. And because it's a one-time offense, I'm going to let you off with counseling for however many months and

blah, blah, blah. That's all I hurt. And he's just, how do you plead? I said, uh, uh, or do you agree to this? And I said reluctantly, yes. You did. I did. So, we get out of the courtroom. And on it goes to Micro Norris. What the fuck did you just do? We both have spent the last month or more telling you, Eric didn't do this. And no counseling was going to be at all part of this. She goes, did you not notice that Courtney was not in the courtroom? She's not there because there's no financial gain for her anymore. So about three days later, Anna finds a new defense attorney.

So I then fire Michael Norris. I retract my statement that I'm ever going to take. You can do that? Yes, you can. I didn't know you can do that. Oh, you're not fucked. I mean, if you have money, you're not fucked. I'm guessing this all costs money.

I had, I had Anna, and I had my incapacitation starting to float away. Okay. So now I had the ability to tell Michael Norris, go fuck yourself. Give me back all my records, and I'm moving on from you. And if I could, I would sue you for legal malpractice. So in any event, that was part of the story, is that, Courtney Baird unilaterally reentered the picture because she saw prey, easy prey. And there was nobody in the legal capacity to protect me.

No, they're just more prey. They're more. This is more money for us in the system. So if I tell you, Courtney stole $300,000, but all the attorneys, along with Eileen Federizo and her attorney, they all, it was well over, 400,000. Who's the bigger thief? Exactly. The system. The system. The people within it that have figured out, oh, we're protected by the very system we created. That's right. And you can play both sides. Yeah. So what happened to her? Anything legally happened to her? Yeah. Yeah. So the marriage got annulled. Okay. She still owes me about $500,000. She did like, she got sentenced to 180 days and she

served, I think, 70. Her brother paid every nickel. of her restitution, which was $170,000. So she didn't pay a nickel. And so she's out freeing about. God. This is an insane fucking, not only an insane story, is this like an insane 10 years. It is.

It is. It is. And so, you know, in addition to this book, The Ultimate Comeback, with Jonathan Walton, we did a podcast called The Quarterback and the Comptain. artist okay and uh it's already run it went 10 weeks uh once a week um it ran toward the end the last year but it's still available anywhere you listen to podcast uh hon and i right now are in

talks and i own it and so on and i are in talks right now with uh a couple of different production companies about possibly turning this into a docu series oh yeah this is wild yeah because because they go what do you want out of it what what's the reason for doing this and i said for me, the reason is to shine a light on this whole system, the people in it and the people who benefit from it. Because I shouldn't benefit from it. Hell no. But it's also wild to even think that our minds are so susceptible to memory and what is and what is it. And the fact that you could live a day-to-day life. I'm getting up. I'm using the toilet. I'm going here. And you're like, I don't remember any of it. Yeah. And then it comes back.

So let's say right now, if we walked out of this building, we're in, right? And we got to the alley. And prior to that, like, if right now we said, okay, when we get to that alley, Eric, we're going to turn right. I said, great. Well, in the time it would take us to get down there, if you said, now let's go to the left, I'd go super. I would have no recollection of what we just agreed to. When Michael, I'm sorry, when David, Ling Shite came and saw me at CNS.

Okay. I couldn't tell you what you looked like. I remember walking in that morning and the woman at the desk said there was a detective here to see you. They said, okay. Don't remember a thing after that. Here's what I do remember. I remember Courtney coming to pick me up and getting in the car and saying to her, you're not

going to believe what happened today. Well, guess what actually happened? Yeah. Courtney didn't drive. I drove. Wow. You drove. You shouldn't be driving clearly. I'm just telling you this is how bad my brain function. Now, you, if I didn't open my mouth, there's no way in the world you could tell that I was mentally gone. But I could drive. And I could, function in ways that look normal. But it would take you a couple minutes for us to have a conversation. Oh, okay. And I'm repeating myself or you're having to or something along those lines.

Eric Kramer, I can't thank you enough for doing this. That is an incredible story. Before we promote here to get at the end, I wanted to ask you advice. You'd give to 16-year-old Eric Kramer. Okay, that's a great question. So I think what I would say is you're doing okay. And I think for kids, for people at that age, they're all kind of, we at that age, we were all faking it. We were all trying to fit in somehow, some way with somebody, some crowd.

And what I would tell that 16-year-old Eric Kramer is there's only one Eric Kramer. Be that one. Great advice. Please, one more time, promote everything you like. Yeah, here we go. The ultimate comeback. As you pointed out, the subtitle is surviving a suicide attempt, conquering depression, and living with a purpose. And I think the living with a purpose one for me stands out because there's a couple of nonprofits I've formed, one of which we're going to have a youth football.

It's going to be a football camp for kids that starts out. There are going to be kids that just completed their freshman year of football. Okay. And we're going to take them through their office. season of their junior year so three years and um you can't pay for it we're i'm raising everything for it and we're going to work with you and your parents um on your yes you're going to become good football players that's a given but you're going to become even better people that's the fucking thing i always tell my daughter i'd rather be a better person and friend than a student yeah really would

yeah eric thank you so much man well thank you appreciate you doing this it was awesome thanks for bringing some levity to all this you got to as well this was great Great, man. As always, Ryan Sickler, on all your social media, we'll talk to you all next week. Getting ready for a game means being ready for anything. Like packing a spare stick. I like to be prepared. That's why I remember, 988, Canada's suicide crisis helpline. It's good to know, just in case. Anyone can call or text for free confidential support from a train responder anytime. 988, suicide crisis helpline is funded by the government in Canada.