The Hope Hotline - Real Faith or Just a Performance?

Episode Date: April 29, 2026

The Hope Hotline | S04-E24 | 04-29-2026

Hello and welcome to the Hope Hotline. Thank you for joining us today on this awesome Wednesday. We are minus one, but we gained one. Yes, we did. OGs are back, baby. She's a little bit more mouthy. I'll shut up. I told you I'd be good.

She's a little bit mouthy, but we will constrain her. Taya has permission to go, boom. I said I'd be good. If needy. Somewhat. It'll be honesty, but it'll be nicer. Thank you very much. Yeah, I got you.

So today, we are going to talk about performance-based Christianity. And I think a lot of times I'm going to let you do your thing in one second. Yeah. But I think a lot of people don't realize they perform more than they have relationship. And we're seeing it, it's becoming normalized, which is kind of dangerous. Performance-based Christianity is becoming so normalized that I think people believe that it's true Christianity. It's what the reality of what a Christian really should be like.

Very dangerous and very interesting to dig and delve into. And a lot of times, too, if you're a solid believer, a lot of times we do know other performance-based Christians. And I would strongly encourage you to watch today's podcast or show it to them so that they might be able to reflect honestly about their work. walk with God and you might be able to help them so they solidify themselves so let's know what all right well welcome back everybody um if you're a facebook we would love to know where you're watching from so let us know and if you want to join us in the live chat that kind of keeps itself going

and we're over in rumble so you want to head over there hello to everybody on rumble and also youtube as well so we'll be on all three channels and youtube is still working for us so and we're going to behave over here, Norma. We just got back on. So we're going to be on our best behavior today. And yes, and so, of course, audio podcast available later on today. If you'd prefer just to listen to us, we got some sad news that Natalie is not going to be here next month. So she will be back in June.

So you can still send your questions in. Anything you guys have, if you see something that seems maybe too good to be true. And you'd love Natalie's opinion on it. Please send it over. We'd love to hear from you guys. You know, you can follow us up. I forgot to bring that to the back. You can follow us on Instagram and TikTok. We love to see you guys over there and sharing our stuff. Of course, Pastor Tom has his two pages too. And we also have all of ours that you can follow us on,

take a screenshot, go find us. Maybe Vanessa might be doing some TikToks since she's on the go right now. And then, of course, we have foundation worship as well, so you can go over there and share and do all that kind of stuff to help us out there. And then Dare to Be is coming up. No music today. Just nice and quiet? Okay. Nope, not that one. We're going to do something different.

We're doing something different. So Dare to Be is coming up. As you guys know, you'll definitely want to be there. I cannot believe it's going to be May on. Friday. Can you guys even crazy leave it? It's almost Hope's birthday. 24th, baby. Yes. Everybody wish her

happy birthday on the 24th. I know it's a Sunday too. What is it? Easy peasy. Bro, we should sing happy birthday on the stage. No, that's okay. Oh my gosh, I'm going to get Aaron to do it. Happy birthday. Oh, my word. Who invited her? I'm actually sure you did. I think you

birthed her actually. So, yeah. Okay, Friday the 15th, 7 to 9, bring your girlfriends, bring everybody. It's always such a good time. Nothing like worshiping with the girls. So good. They always have great songs too. So it'll be a great time.

Please come. And that's all I got for it today. That's it. Lovely. That's it. Lovely. I think I, seriously, I think it's such a, peep of mine about people who are fake, I cannot bear it. I can't stand people who are fake Christians,

who are fake nice, who are one way in front of certain people and another way in front of another group of people. Do you know what I'm saying? I hate that. I hate fake. I cannot stand it. And that's really what a lot of people say they hate it too, but they do it. They are it. And there's a difference between dying to your carnal nature and not treating people a certain way and another thing to be fake in who you are to a group. Does that make sense? Yeah, that's what I was thinking.

I mean, I cannot, I cannot stand it. And that's what I find a lot of people in their Christian walks. What they do is they put, they are a character, they put, well, let's see, that's not the right way. They live a role, and they aren't that role. It's like they're an actor when they go into certain places, and then they are no longer that actor what we somebody going to say persona in a sense like you put it on when you're around people and then when you're home alone it's back off yeah a lot of famous people say they have to like put on a persona when they're like entertaining i just heard like somebody her name's tate mccray

say the same thing she has like an alter ego persona is what she says when she's performing but when she's off the stage she's completely somebody different because she has to do that to be something well and i get that if that's your job if you are a singer or performer i get that but But people do that with Christianity You're saying Like you can do that with anything technically Yeah and they do And it's disgusting

And a lot of people are walking away from Christianity Because of it Because it's disgusting And There's a difference between Looking like you have a close relationship with God And then having a close relationship with God Because eventually

you will be exposed. True. You will be exposed. What were you going to say, Tracy? No, no, no, yeah, you're right. I was thinking the same thing. Some people are, like, insecure, so they act a certain way.

Like, they have to put on a front. But then there is the ones that I think you're talking about, too. Well, yeah. And what happens is, is people believe that that ends up being real Christianity. Right. Like being a fraud,

because they surround themselves with frauds, So when they get saved or what they believe is saved, they believe that is Christianity. When in all actuality, it's not. You have deceived yourself. And that's one of the reasons why I think that Joshua's scripture that Tom always uses, says, if it seems evil to you to serve the Lord, but for me in my house, we will serve the Lord. because what happens is when you deceive yourself in what Christianity really looks like, your Christianity is what you believe Christianity is, not what the word of God says Christianity is.

And so you end up putting Christianity in this realm of your perception of what it is. So you live that perception, but what does the Bible say about our hearts? They're evil. for the heart is evil above all things and desperately wicked. So you are not going to live out what a true Christian really looks like and really should be because you don't base it on the word of God because you live a fraudulent lifestyle. And a lot of us know people like this. I mean, if we're honest, we know a lot of people who pretend and they actually believe they are

these legitimate believers. and there's nothing legitimate about their lifestyle. As we're seeing it on social media. Social media has not helped Christianity because that's real performance-based in a lot of ways, Christianity. In my opinion, ladies, say otherwise? Do you say otherwise? No, totally agree.

Totally agree. Lead you down a really weird path. The social media Christianity? What does that mean? I don't know. I feel like it's so like I mean you already said it's very fraudulent it's putting up like just a picture of what it could be but you're not living it yeah because they always say the right things yeah that's what I'm saying it's so scripted and fake the whole time it's like a lie you're living a lie you're also lying to people I feel like you're lying there we go that's all I'm going to say you're lying you're not being honest you're messing up every day and you're playing it off as if you're not like you're lying I don't know it's weird it gives me a nick So how do you, but how do you tell somebody, how do you get somebody so that they, I mean, for me, it's the scriptures. And then the person has to be honest and say, that is me. But a lot of people are not honest and their walks.

I've literally listened to people, talk to me about their life or about their Christian walk. And, I mean, the whole entire time, I'm like, you aren't who you think you are. you're actually opposite of what you're saying you are right now. And I'm like, how do you, how do you, I mean, I think it's revelatory knowledge. And this is why this Christianity, this performance-based Christianity is so dangerous. I see it more in the Ark churches or a lot of churches that preach the Ark message, because there's no depth in these teachings. They're 20 minutes in.

Well, the whole entire sermon or service is about 40 to 45 minutes total. Am I wrong about that? No, because they have to start every hour and a half. They have to get everybody in and out. So if you go to church, the announcements, the worship, and the sermon, coming in, waiting for it to start, and then having time to leave, is all in that 45 minute time period. what could you actually be learning?

What could you be at, I mean, you really should be doing stuff at home on your own during the week. But most people don't. I mean, we've told you the statistics. The statistics are less than like 5% of people who read their word every day. Right. And it's ridiculous. So, like, how do you, without hearing scripture in a month and being encouraged, I mean, a lot of times these churches are also like, we're going to read the.

whole Bible in a year, which I think is kudos to them for trying. But when you don't teach them anything every Sunday, like why would that spur them on to read the Bible in a whole year? Right. Because you're not challenging them. I mean, we're to be challenged to change. But I literally, I talk to people and I'm like, how do you honestly believe you're selling me this bill of goods of who you say you are and you don't think that I can't see like your life and know do you have like some examples that you can like think of like like like overarching that they say they're one thing but you know they're not because they'll say that some people will say we'll try and paint a picture of their home life as one way and I'm not talking married couples

I'm talking about single people as well, like that they'll try and sell you a bill of goods that they're, we'll just say this is a single person, right? Because we always go for the married couple. Let's do it. The single person is saying that they live a certain lifestyle. Like, but when no one's around, like, what are they saying to their friends? Is it gossip?

Do you know what I'm saying? They portray like, I don't talk about anybody. And then you're like, I know that's not true. Right. Or they'll pretend or they'll act like they're pure, they walk in purity, but they actually are looking at pornography. So they're outward, like, they know they're doing wrong and they're acting like they don't. Right.

Okay. And it's like, you know, even though nobody sees what you live like at home. Yeah. I mean, God does. Right. Also, you know people buy their fruit, so. Yeah, and it's usually like. The actual, the true fruit will show.

I mean, they look great when they're worshipping. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They have all the Sunday school answers, all the Christianese, like when you're talking to them. Some of the, some of the best worshippers that would be considered the best worshippers I've ever seen have been some of the meanest people that I've ever talked to are dealt with and their families, families would say that. It's yelling, screaming, ranting, and raving on the way into church on Sunday. What do you think that is? Why do I think that is? Their carnal nature is so big.

And their spiritual man is so small. And they have sold themselves a bill of good. that is just not true about themselves and they live in delusion. Yeah. Like how can you, how, like if you don't think that that's doing something to your children, they say you're a fraud because when you get out of that car after you've been screaming and yelling at either your spouse or your kids, maybe you're not married to your single parent and you're yelling and screaming on the way in.

Yep. And when the kids get out and the whole family is walking into the church and you're now happy, you go lucky smiling and laughing and pretending like what just happened in the car never happened. That's mentally messed up too for children. Your kids sit there and go, you're a fraud. You're a fake Christian. But to that parent or to that adult, they're Dululu. They honestly believe that who they are acting like in that moment is who they really are.

No, who you were in the car, just about five minutes. ago, that's who you really are. That's the truth. I mean, like people who bicker argue and fight with family members or their spouse, that's who you really are.

And you can say, well, we don't really mean it or we joke around like that. I mean, because I have heard brothers and sisters be so mean to each other, like so sarcastic and so one kind to one another, and they'll put it off as, we're just sarcastic. We're just playing around.

If you don't think that that one of you, it's cutting like a knife, it is. Like, you can't say you're the solid believer and treat your brother or sister. And I'm not saying in Christ, I mean, your legitimate blood. Yeah. Your brother or sister are horrible. And not think, that's who you really are. Don't come in and play like you're like you're this rock solid believer when you're, you're mean. Yeah. It's, you got to fix that. It's a big deal.

It's, you're performing. You're pretending to be something when you walk into either your friends. I think of like youth, like for the youth group and stuff like that. I think, and probably not hardly anybody of them are watching, but if any, But I just think of like these kids, when they are at home, they're disrespectful to their parents. Their parents talk smart to them because a lot of them aren't saved. And they reply in the same tone and the same nastiness.

And then they won't go to youth group or they go and hang out with their Christian friends. Okay, who you are just in your home and how you behave towards your parents. Word is clear. We're to honor our mother and father. Okay. that means that it's just like a merry couple. If they are asking you to do something that's not biblical, then you don't do it, okay? Honor means way different than doing things that are sinful.

Like a wife is to, husbands and wives are to submit to one another. But if that spouse asks you to do something that's sinful, you don't do that. That's not when you submit. There are two different things. But I just think that people, and everybody's like, well, no, Nobody can be perfect like that. That's not what the word of God says. Be perfect as I am perfect, is what the word says.

Like, this is not complicated and this isn't hard. It's just your carnal man is bigger. That's all there is to it. Does anybody want to add anything to this really quick? No, keep going. Matthew 15, 8 says, These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.

And this is truth. It's very true. And I, sometimes I feel like, like, for this podcast, it's always like, I think sometimes people are more like, can we just talk about more things that are light and fluffy and, but light and fluffy ain't going to get you anywhere. Right. It's freaking boring. Right. It is.

There's plenty of other places to go to talk about that stuff. Yeah. I'm like, be challenged. Look at yourself honestly. Or help your friend who's not looking at themselves honestly. Like all of us are to be discipling. somebody. This might not be for you, but you might be able to use this for someone else. So use it because we're supposed to be iron sharpens iron. We're supposed to be helping one

another in our walks with God to make them better. And if you have somebody who is not true to themselves and not true to the word, this is the perfect podcast for them. Because a lot of people are playing. They're playing church. They're playing Christian. They're not real. And that's very, very dangerous. Do not be deceived. God is not mocked. Whatever a man so is that he will also reap. That is truth.

What is this again? Is this the eight? She ate, right? Right. Yeah. Ooh, get it. Left no crumbs. Get it.

Okay. It's true. Real eight over there. Yeah. Treat it. Oh my gosh. I feel like I'm about to get up and dance. Oh my gosh.

Matthew 6.5 says, when you pray, don't be like the hypocrites who love to pray publicly. And a lot of times, you're like, I, I'm very simple in my prayers. I'm very simple. And then there's people that, like Pastor Rodney, he's very simple in his prayers. I mean, he's come to my house and he's prayed over Tom. And it was not dramatic.

I mean, he wanted to yell, like, shit and get out or whatever, whatever he was going to do. I don't know what he's going to do. But, like, he's very simple. in his prayers. But there are some people that they think more dramatic, longer, more words, very big vocabulary. That means something. And it means nothing because what did God do?

When he cast out demons and devils with a word. When he healed people, it usually was less than 10 words. I mean, very, very, I mean, I, on purpose don't make my prayers very big. I do it on purpose. Yeah. So we appreciate that. Thank you. Well, if I'm praying and prophetically, God gives me something to somebody, that's way different.

Right. But I don't sit and make long drawn out and make these proclamations and declarations. And listen, if that's what God's telling you to do, then you should do that. But on the whole, that's not what Jesus did. So I do it on purpose. I purposely pray a certain way so that I replicate God or Jesus. The reasons, too, is because a lot of times people can be puffed up

if they start feeling like they got to make these long, drawn out prayers. Yep. And that's dangerous. What is that? That's why I like dad's prayers too. They're so, like, powerful and quick, though. Like, everything's in it. It's all compacted in there.

It's like, very simple. But you feel it, though. That's the difference. It's just like those lawn drawn out ones that maybe you do feel, but just so quick and easy. Thank God. I mean, literally, I can't tell you, when I had a kidney stone, oh, gosh, I don't know, five years ago, I had never had a kidney stone in my life. They were pain.

It's so painful. It is worse than childbirth. That's crazy. It's worse. Never had one. Like, oh my gosh. Thank God. I'd have 10 kids over having a kidney stone.

Wow. And I remember like 3 o'clock in the morning I woke up and I was like, holy moly, what is that? Now, I remember, the only reason I knew what it was is because Thomas had kidney stones before. And so I, like, got up, went to the living room. because I could not lay in the bed. And I was like, this is not happening. I am not doing this. So I, from three until like six in the morning, I laid on the couch and I prayed over

myself. I spoke over myself. I was like commanding and speaking the word. I remember Tom getting up. And I was feeling really good. The pain had stopped. and but every now and then it would try and creep back in so I'd have to like and I actually in between the three and six I fell asleep for a little bit which was crazy six o'clock in the morning Tom comes

out and he's like what's what's going on and I'm like I got a kidney stone and I's like I'm not going to the hospital I'm not nothing like I'm already feeling better um but I we had two services at the time because we were in the old building. So I'm like, I'm going to be at church this morning. And he's like, okay, well, he's like, let's pray. And I can remember he basically said something along the lines, which is what he normally does. Oh, gosh, how did he say it?

I command it to come out in the name of Jesus or something like that. And so it's super basic. And then he just. you know, thanked, thank the Lord. And then he's like, oh, okay, I'm going to go back to bed. I'm like, okay. I said, I'll see you. I'll see you.

Because I had, I was clothes ready. I said, I'm going to go to sleep. I will be there for second service because I haven't really slept. And I said, because I will be there. I woke up at, I think, 8 o'clock, 8.30, went to the bathroom and peed that thing out. Wow. Like that. Felt great.

It's like you don't have to like, and I know most people deal with those things. I've never heard of anybody get rid of a kidney stone that fast in my whole entire life. Yeah, that's crazy. And it was crazy. But, you know what I mean? I've seen so many miracles in my life. And I've personally experienced them from having a broken nose where it was sitting over here to being. Wasn't that softball?

Right. That was softball, like where my nose was literally sitting to the side of my face, me praying, bleeding everything to know, swollen nose. My nose was back in place. No black, no black and blue eyes. Nothing. Didn't you get up and go play again? No, I didn't go and play.

No, I went and watched in the bleachers and shared my team on. It would have been a G if you went out back. They didn't want me. They wouldn't let me. but it might have been because I stunk not because listen if I really brought something to the team they probably would have been like get out here

but because not so good not the greatest softball player in the world they were like you stay there you sit at the bleachers and I was like all right whatever but I mean I've seen so many personal uh healings with friends family

myself like I don't doubt it. But I also know that it doesn't need a lot of words. No. It just doesn't. Right. And so people who are seeking all of that, don't seek it. Like, pray like Jesus and pray like yourself.

I feel like that's the same with casting out demons doing all that stuff. Like it always has to be this huge show, it's huge, always throwing up, shaking a lot. But it's like it doesn't. It has to come out right when you say. Well, that's what the Bible says. The word says. Yeah. There's no talking and having a discussion.

Why would you talk to a liar? Correct. I don't know. So for me, like that demon has nothing to say that I really want to hear. He's a liar. His father is the father of lies. So why am I going to tell you the truth anyway? Exactly.

So it doesn't matter. Right. Like there's no disgusting. But find your place. But a lot of times people feel like that if they don't, pray with a lot of words. If they don't pray, like what they've heard other people pray like, um, I mean, God bless it. But I used to have, um, I used to have a family member and like every time they prayed over the meal, it was so long and so drawn out. I was like, the food is going to be

cold by the time we eat. Yep. And it was the most, like, old, school like thous and these. I was like, why are we praying like this? Why are we not just using our words? Because they wanted it to, they wanted it to feel like it was something. You're not impressing anybody. In fact, all of us are like,

well, you just shot up. Sorry. Pray it. Say it. You know? Like they say an amen and you think it's done and they go back to it. And you're like,

I'm like, you're tight. Okay, we're good. No, we're not good. We're going right back into it. Yeah, no. It's like, it's not that you don't, like, when I say just shut up, it's not that I want to not be thankful for what God's done. It's like, I don't want to hear you trying to impress. Right.

I know, and you know. I'm like, who cares? So true. You're not impressing. You're actually offending. Right. And not in a, you have offended me, like. Like hurt me, you're offending me because it's like that's not what Christianity is all about.

It's unnecessary. Galatians 110 says, if pleasing people were my goal, I would not be Christ servant. Like I said, I think social media has made it really bad. And here's some reasons why I believe that. It started as something real and then it became like a performance. So a lot of times people start these Christian, not podcast Christian They're not podcasts

What do you call that when somebody comes on and they have Like I've watched plenty of them on like on TikTok No they're not even interviews They come on and they like Tracy you've done them before What is that when somebody comes on and they have And I have seen some really great ones Like really

Like they were powerful and they were good Like a point of view Like the OVs? Yeah but it's It's not like, morning time. But it's more like a, not a Bible study,

but a time of sharing. Something that they reveal. No, it's not story time. It's like a time where they're sharing something that God's either shown them or something they've experienced, but it's not story time.

I don't know what that's called either. Yeah. I don't know. You should bring one on Friday and be like, but it's like, it's like a devotional, but it's not a devotional. Hi.

Oh. Like a series? Yeah. Like, what if I? Is there actually a word for? Yeah, is there a word, an actual word for it? No, they just come on and they.

It's like them, they're filming themselves, right? It could be in their car. And then they're telling something that they're not giving their testimony. Like, this is what God did for me. But they're like, you know what? They'll read something in the Bible. And then they'll come on. share what they learned from it and how it can be applied to their life.

Okay. Vanessa said TED Talk. New. She's here. Even though she's not here, she's here. Yeah, just like a TikTok video that's like, but it's like a devotional, but it's not a devotion. Okay.

Let's do it. Let's go with that. Yeah. I'm going to go with that one. But here's the thing. Like I think what happens is with these people who go on and they share something. And I'm not saying everybody because like I said, like I said, I've seen some really good ones.

And they, they're hard, some of them are heavy hitters. A lot of them are fluff and stuff, right? But I would sit there and go, are you just doing this for this TikTok? Is that all we've done this? Like,

well, how much do you, in private, how much do you spend time studying the word? Are you like pulling this stuff so that you can share it, but your real life isn't, it's non-existent. Do you know what I'm saying?

Yeah. Like, do you, when you, when you are talking about this stuff, how much have you studied it out? What, how are you living it out practically? Or are you just saying this so you can get more likes and more views? Well, I think a lot of the times things aren't even inspired by God. They just saw somebody else do the video. So then they copy it and they do the video, which is in your own strength, you know. So, but if God inspires it and you're just pouring out, you know, like you said, like you

studied it, you were in time, and then you're like, oh, this feels like something I should share. Like, it feels like God inspired. But otherwise, people are just watching somebody else's TikTok. They're like, oh, I like that. I'm going to say it too. Yeah. I just think it's very, very dangerous, how we have become so, again, it's the back to the word, performance based in our Christianity. I mean, we even talked about this earlier. Norma mentioned about worship. Like, I've been to so many churches, and it feels like a performance to me during worship. And, And I come here. And so many people talk so highly about our worship, but it's not a performance.

It's like, it's the furthest thing from it. And so when there's an anointing and power on it, then no longer is it performance anymore because now there is like it's actually God inspired. Even our Christmas services, I can even say, like, usually that is more performance-based. Right. It's not here, like, at all. Like, there is an anointing even with the Christmases. I thought I cried.

Yeah, but you know why I think a lot of that is? So, and I mean, can I say that this is true of everybody? Pretty much. But I think everybody who's on the worship team or even like the specials that we do, like those people that are doing the specials, they literally love God. Yeah.

Like their whole intention and whole heart is to please God. And I think that's one of the reasons why, even the little girls when they danced. So cute. Like all of them love God. And I think it really shows. Like it wasn't, and we obviously say,

you're not performing. This is as unto him. So if that's your heart and your passion is to perform, then just don't do it. And I don't think, and I think because of that, if anybody did have that intention,

it's quickly corrected. But even like on Christmas and stuff like that, pretty much anybody and everybody that's doing it, the hearts are really to honor the Lord and what that specific, whatever, if it's Christmas, honor him and like the birth of him and how grateful we are that he was born. So I would agree with you about that, Norman.

I don't think it's like a lot of times I feel like with churches today and even, Christians, it's like, get in, get out. Get in, get out. Get in, get out. How many people can we say actually we're here? So we can chalk it up to, we had this many people come this year to our Christmas services and it's a power play.

It's not really about what was the purpose of, what was the purpose of those, I want to call sessions, but they're not sessions. They're like services. Thank you. The correct word. But what was the point of each of those services? It also like makes me wonder, I'm going back not to Christmas,

but like to Sunday like services. It also makes me wonder to be like people even like enjoy going to church anymore when you're that fake. Like do you even enjoy it or are you doing it just like prove a point now? I think it's so that you can say it's, you check it right off. And for me, I look forward to Sunday every week.

not just for like the people that are there but like I just love being there I don't know I just love Sunday I just the whole thing from start to finish from starting band practice to the all this leaving to go out to lunch like every part of it is amazing for me worship message everything like I don't know for me you know one of the things is what you know it's so funny because like at the river all of the river churches um call it the main event yeah oh yeah And really, it is. It's like an event. Going to church is not like something you check off the list.

It's like it's an event. Like going to a football game is an event. Like you should look at going to church as like that big of a deal. Like you don't want to miss it. Like a nervous excitement. Like what's going to happen? You could have never like Sunday, Sunday service at the very end of. Sunday service when Tom, because Tom hadn't prayed over people.

So good. And you, like, that was powerful. So powerful. It was so good. It wrapped around like twice. We were all shocked. Like, I was in shock. Yeah.

It was so powerful. I was in complete shock that we had that many people bold, first of all. I mean, bold enough to come forward, but to just want to have hands laid on. them for whatever God was trying to do in their life. I'm like, man, it was crazy. That was powerful. And sometimes I can tell people go up because, like, their mom went up or their friend went up. Like, it seemed like every single person that was up there was expecting something. Like, you could just kind of tell. Well, you were right there because you were taking picks. Correct. Yeah. But he's up close and personal. It was, it was. It was crazy. Yeah. How many people do you think that was?

Because I, mom, it was like the whole, I'm not joking. There's maybe like a hundred people in the chairs, maybe. Like, that's it. I mean, we literally wrapped around the whole thing and then went up the front again. It was nuts. And actually to the side. Yeah, and sides. Yeah. To the side over by the cafe again. Vanessa said I almost got trampled.

That's true. Vanessa was one of the last ones. We had to protect her from the cafe. Oh, really? Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Poor Benite. It's just, I mean, for me, like, that's what church is really all about.

Yeah. It's so awesome. Coming with an expectation of what God has for you and what you can receive. and that, but that shows like your weekly and daily walk. It's not like, how can I look like something and still get to experience all that the world has to offer me too, which is I really feel like a performance-based Christian is that's the lifestyle of them. Yeah, sure. It's let me look like something.

And I don't think, to be honest with you, I don't think a lot of people know that. that they're doing it. Yeah, that's what I was wondering. I don't think that they do because this is what they know that they're going to these churches and these churches are performance-based. Right. Get them in, get them out. Get them in, get out.

Get them in, get out. That's performance-based, right? Because there's no real, like, there's nothing really being taught at these churches that's of some substance. How can you teach something of substance in 20 minutes? 20 or 20. How much, what's the average message? Length of time.

Yeah. I think it's 25 to 30 minutes. And it's the same message all six times. Yes. Like, so they do it Saturday night and then two on Saturday night and then four on Sunday. But it's the exact, they just say the same thing. Like how? Four times, six times.

I listen to a message that was 30 minutes about dirt. And I'm not joking. Dirt. I believe it. How do you take, like, okay. But, I mean, you could get something in 30 minutes. There is some things that you can learn depending on how much word is in it

but a lot of times there's very little word in these as well. So how, what are you really getting if there's hardly any word being taught? There's no an anointing. Right. You can't have an anointing. It's because the Holy Spirit's not free to move.

There's no anointing because there's no freedom. There's a time and there's a schedule and you have to meet that time and schedule. Right. Let's see how a pastor could have even enjoyed that either, though, to be honest. I think it's safe. Like, it's safe. They have, like, the message given to them.

And then they have, like, only can be a certain amount of time. And so I think it's safe. Yeah, but, like, safety gets boring after a while, though. That's what I'm saying. Oh, yeah. I would be bored out of my mind. Yeah, but you know what happens with people is people that want more or realize that there is more than just a performance-based Christianity.

It says, cowards were not inherit the kingdom of heaven. I think it's in Revelation 3. Or it's Revelation 1-3. I can't remember it is in Revelation. Cowards were not inherit the kingdom of heaven. And a lot of people, when they realize that there is more to a Christian walk than this performance-based Christianity, they're afraid. Fear will keep them from not being fake.

Because they don't want to be judged by other people who will say, oh, you're self-righteous. Now you're self-righteous. Tell them to go pound sand. Well, the thing is, it's easy to say, but when these are your friends, you still want to fit in. And you don't have another set of friends. They're actually doing what you're longing to seek out and find.

So leaving the old to get the new is sometimes very, very tough. So you stay in it because you're afraid of trying it. With you're miserable with those people knowing what you now know? Knowing now? Like I would be like, I'm miserable because now I know what's in front of me and what I could have. Why would you stick with the old? Well, sometimes, but then other times it's easier because you don't want to deal with real issues. Yeah, I guess, yeah.

No, I see that. Okay. So real issues are like, I can't do that anymore. I can't, like, drink and get drunk anymore. I can't go and hang out with my friends, her getting drunk anymore. and I will be convicted to have to tell them that drunkards will not inherit the kingdom of heaven. Those are real issues that you're going to have to face

and you're going to have to deal with. And then you're going to have to deal with the consequences of them. A lot of times it's just way easier to stay a performance-based Christian and hope and believe that... So dangerous. It's very dangerous. Now you know the knowledge of God

and now you're choosing to ignore it because you want to be comfortable. Yes. That's even worse in my opinion than being performance-based. like just like pretending and you know maybe not knowing exactly everything but now knowing and then going I'm still going to go back to performance based you're you're stuck up you're struck by lightning go ahead enter the church you're coming back it's it is but I mean

well there's a lot of people that still will go to two different churches because of it like if you're a Catholic I mean let's face it like your dad was one of them because his parents didn't want him to go to a Pentecostal church or just any other church other than the Catholic. So your dad would go to Catholic Mass and then he would go to Catholic Mass on Saturdays and then you go to church on Sunday mornings. There's a lot of people who do that because of the fear of man. Of what will people say? What will people think? What will people deal with? Did he do it for his parents? Is that how he would go? Yeah. He had to sneak out to go to church on Sundays. Or spend the night at his friend's house in order to do it.

I know dad did this. I had no clue. That's funny. Yeah. Little sneaky son of a gun. Yep. For Jesus. Because his parents didn't like it.

But they didn't go to Mass. They would go into Catholic Church. I was going to say, so they did go to Mass. But they didn't go. So he went by himself? I think so. Yeah. I know.

It's crazy. That makes me sad. It's your dad. It's your dad. Back in the day. Be like, I'm so sorry. Your dad. He didn't care.

I just want to like, cut him. They're like, you're doing great. He didn't care. He really didn't. I promise you. Wait, were you dating him? No, he was in high school. He was not attractive.

He was not attractive. Not dating that guy. He was a bit chubby. He's like. When he did get skinny, he was, he did look good. Oh, my dad is good looking. When I sent you that video from the ski trip my mom took, I was like, oh my gosh. Hey, what are you saying over here?

He's like a handsome man. Yeah. The heck? She goes, yeah. Yeah. And then Hope was over there looking all. My mom's a smoke show, bro. Yeah.

What is that? You're hot. Oh, my gosh. You are. You're right. Oh, my gosh. Shut up. Wine, wine over there.

Please. I would date you. Thank you. Thank you very much. That's incestual. But that's okay. Once again, Norma should not be on the podcast. I know.

And we're going to get kicked off YouTube. just because I said I'd date my mother. Oh my gosh. Help me, Lord. I know other people that would date you. What is that? I know other people would date you. Other girls?

Yeah. That's disgusting. That and men. I've heard some comments. Oh my gosh. Please. People think you're hot. Okay, whatever.

She needs help. Ready, outy, outy. Whatever. Okay, let's go back to the thing because I just do not want this topic anymore. Proverbs 2925 says. Exactly. What is that, Norma?

Back to the Bible. Yeah, back to the Bible. Back to Jesus. Back to Jesus. Go ahead. Fearing people is a dangerous trap, but trusting the Lord means safety. And John 1243 says, for they loved human praise more than the praise of God. And I really feel like that's what, I've said this before, but I've told Tom like 10 plus years ago,

it was probably 15 years ago when, when, um, when, I, I've said this before, I've said this before, I've told Tom, I've, I've said this before, When I saw, I'm going to name names, but I'm not saying this person's a terrible person, but I think it started a very, I don't think it started a good trend. When Joel Osteen started, when his dad passed away, he took over Lakewood Church. And Joel Osteen really is a power of positive thinking speaker. and he adds in God into that positive speaking. I don't know. So what happened with that is his dad was like hardcore hellfire brimstone speaking in tongues from the pulpit.

Like he hung around with Kenneth Hagan. actually I heard Kenneth Hagan do a teaching and it's super old and he prophetically spoke over Joel Osteen's mom, Doty about what she was about when she was going to get cancer and he prophetically spoke over her about the cancer that would come but he didn't say it would be cancer but he told her about what was in her future but he also told her that it would not destroy her. And she lived, which is powerful.

But he hung up, his dad hung around the who's who as far as big faith people, big stand people, big word of God, word of faith, like holiness, obedience. And when Joel took it over, he really went more of the positive thinking route. and positive speaking round. And he does add the word in, but it's real minute. And it's, in my opinion, when I first started hearing it

and I started seeing it, I told Tom, I was like, that's very dangerous because there's very little about sin and there's very little about repentance and there's very little about changing and moving towards holiness. And then you saw how successful it got.

went from, his dad had a 5,000 member church and overnight. And I'm like exaggerating, but not by much. He grew from 5,000 to 10,000 to 15,000 to 25,000 in a short, like I had never heard anybody preaching like him before. When he first came out, I remember sitting in my friends, our friends were the pastors of a church. I remember all of us sit and watching him. and we were all like, well, this is different. Because it was not hellfire and brimstone by a lot of other pastors, but nobody was preaching like Joel was. And then it caught on like fire.

And people were like, that man just grew his church from 5 to 25. I can do that too. And that's how the art came about. Because if you look at Associated Related Churches, they have literally copycatted what Joel Osteen did. Joel Oatstein though, in his, and he always did a, and I think he still does to this day,

salvation call where he used the word repentance, he used the word sin, and you actually knew what you were doing. When you said the sinner's prayer, you knew you were saying a sinner's prayer. Yeah. But in the arch church, because the arch church is eternally secure,

that doctrine is eternally secure. there's really no teaching of that, that salvation call is very, very different. But they've grown and like gangbusters, just like Joel did, because they used the same formula as him. And that's very, very dangerous. But it works,

but it teaches performance-based Christianity, in my opinion. Yeah, I agree. It's not good. It's dangerous. What is that? Can I bring her home? Absolutely. Now is this? Can I bring her home? Yes.

So I just think But what's interesting too is Vanessa said this earlier is that this next generation, these guys over here, are looking for anything but performance based. The Gen Ziers hate this, by the way. They hate this nonsense. You can sniff it out. Because it's fake and it's fraudulent. And that is actually

100% actual truth. Gen Z hates performance-based anything. You do research, which is I did when I did this, one of the things that it said in the research that I did when I did this is Gen Z hates performance-based Christianity is one of the things that it said. I mean, obviously, Jayers, my husband's a youth pastor, and you can't, they know. They know, they smell it out.

Like Norma just said, two seconds, if you're being fake or if you're real. And they want the anointing. They want power. They want opposite of what they're seeing in school, at their house, with their families, with their friends. Like, they don't want that. They're sick of it. They hate it. They see that it's wrecking their lives.

They want what's true. They don't want sedation. No. They are opposite of what I would call millennials. Millennials love to be sedated. Yeah. True. They love it.

Like, give it to me. That's how it is. Gen Z, nope, not at all. Do not sedate them. They'll question you the whole entire time. What are you sticking in my arm or why are you sticking that in my arm? Yeah. They're not having it.

They're not having it. And Gen Xers, we had millennials. So there's a reason why millennials are the way they are. Like Gen Xers were like kind of raised themselves to a certain extent. We're the first generation to really be latch key kids. And we were like, we're not doing that to our kids. So we raised sedated children. Not good either.

Yep. I mean, I have Gen Zer, so I did something right. This Gen Xer did something right. But I used to remember selling my kids, and they might not remember it, but I used to literally say to them, I am not raising a millennial child. I am not. You will not be millennial.

I remember. I was like, you will not be a millennial. Not my kid. Obviously, there are millennials that are not like that, but a lot of them are. A lot of them are. And it's usually the older ones that are not like true millennials. Have you ever noticed?

What's the age bracket for millennials again, by the way? 81 to 99 98 something like that no no no not 98 it's 96 95 something like that I was about to say if 98 that was going to say Tommy's a millennial yeah no he's not he's on the he's on the early he's on the edge

it's 1981 and 1996 okay Tommy was almost a oh Tommy was almost a millennial dude I would have roasted him but the yeah but the older millennials are very, very different. They still have that tendency to a certain extent, but for the most part, no. You can always tell an older millennial. They're very close to being like a gen Xer. They really are, especially in their work ethic.

Like, the younger the millennial, their work ethic stinks. True. Lots of privilege, like, or, uh, entitlement. That's it. Oh, it's terrible. It is terrible. Oh, my gosh. Tough as a business owner.

What does this do to people? I'm going to read you some scriptures. So when you learn to be like this or you kind of embrace it, it's very, very dangerous. And what it does to you is it really weakens your walk with God until I think to a place where do you even have one? When you become performance-based, it's more about the image versus the conviction. of what a true believer looks like. Revelations 315 through 16 says, I know all the things you do,

you are neither hot nor cold, you are lukewarm. And then it's fault goes on to say, I'll spew you out of my mouth. So performance-based Christians a lot of times are lukewarm because they want one foot in the world, one foot in their Christian walk.

And eventually it says, you cannot serve two masters. You'll love the one and hate the other. So you'll figure it out. You're going to be one or the other. And if you stay lukewarm, that's worse. Pick one because God's going to spew you out of his mouth. True.

James 122 says, don't just listen to God's word. You must do what it says. I think that part of the problem is, is they don't even know what to do because they go to these churches. And nobody's, it's like Tom said, he nailed it when he said that churches today, they're preached the non-specific. Which, man, it's so true. There's no specificity with anything. So how do you know what to do? You need to read the word, but a lot of times Christians don't read the Bible.

Not even in our church. Listen, that's a feat not to read the Bible in our church. But they don't. Let me tell you what real faith is. So you can't say, so when you have a friend that you need to, Listen, we need to be plucking people out of these churches. I'm not kidding you. We need to be plucking them out of these churches, and I will not feel a bit bad about it.

Not a bit bad, because it's not good. What real faith actually looks like is a real Christian is honest. But when I say, Leslie, how do I say this? because it's in it's in um basically i when i say this it's more along the performance side of it so they're honest but they're not perfect not that they're i'm not saying that they're they're not perfect as far as far as how they live their life what they're what i'm saying to you is like their image isn't perfect like how they how they um come off is is maybe how they pray isn't like everybody else.

It doesn't sound as, it's not as polished as somebody else as a performance-based person would be. Does that make sense? It's consistent. And it's not based on performance consistency. It's based on consistency with holiness, obedience, following after what the Lord says in the word.

They focus more on what they're doing in private, than versus what they look like in public. I wish I could convince people to be more concerned about their walks with God in private versus how people view them in public. If we could teach people that, it would be powerful. But so often it's opposite. It is so opposite. People care more about what people think when they're out and,

public versus how they live their life in their home. And their home, they're mean, they're irritable, they're nasty, they're, they're not good. They fight. Their language is poor. They're sarcastic. They're condescending. All of it's bad. And all of it comes from a very bad place. And it's not Christ. I mean, everything out of the abundance of the heart, the mouse speaks. And when you talk like that, when you act like that, when you behave like that, guess what? You are that. Right.

And people have convinced themselves that they're not. But you are. Who you are in private is really who you are more than anywhere else. I wish I can, like, make people understand that. Same. I know. Start name dropping. Let's go.

I'm going to. Name dropping like who doesn't perform. Yeah. I was just thinking because she's like, I wish I could just make people understand. I'm like, well, you can just start telling them, start speaking it out right now. Again, don't do that. Actually, that's not a good idea. There's nobody that, I mean.

I do. I know somebody and they don't go to this church. But they do this. And they go to like all week. They live a certain way. And they're angry and frustrated and swearing and drinking. And then they show up on Sunday. And they're fighting the whole way in the car.

And then the second the door opens, they do exactly. They're like, oh my gosh, hey. Do they have kids? Yes. Oh, my gosh. They do. They do. And they're completely unaware.

Even if somebody were, even if you were to say to them, what you're, like, you don't understand. Like at home, we run a tight ship. We do this. We do it. They are completely delusious. Like you said, it has to be a revelation. Like you have to have a revelation.

Because you could even point things out. They're like, no, no, no, no, no. Like, you don't live with me. You don't get, they are completely delusional. Do they go to an arch church? Yep. Makes sense. It's so dangerous.

Like I used to tell Tom, that right there is the great falling away. It is. It is. Because there's no accountability. There's no power. There's no nothing. As you just show up to hear a TED talk. There's no scripture.

If there is, it's the one. you hear every week about love and gentleness. Yeah. No shame. No shame. God. Jesus chases you everywhere. I'm not kidding.

Like 15 years ago, you could clearly see it that that was a great following way, falling away. Like 15 years. It wasn't rocket science. If you are a solid Christian, you could clearly see it and define it. It's crazy. Psalm 516 says, but you desire honesty from the womb, teaching, me wisdom even there. John 423, let this be us where we chase after holiness and obedience

versus a performance-based Christianity. John 423 says, the Father is looking for those who will worship him in spirit and in truth. Understand, worshiping him in spirit and truth. That is powerful. That is significant. If you're not doing those two things, And those two things, like truth has to be not your truth. Truth has to be the word of God's truth. And that's where I think a lot of people are so misconceived and so misguided and so deceived. Because they have now believed that their truth is real truth. But your truth is not.

It's like when a crime is committed and you're not the criminal, you're a person, you're a person that was in the maybe store when somebody got robbed and you saw what happened, your truth of what happened will look different than other people's truths of what happened and occurred. Like the criminal will look maybe taller, shorter, bigger, smaller. Your truth might be inconsistent with what the actual truth is, but here's the honest truth. real truth is the word of God. And if you follow that truth,

then you can never be Dululu. Right. True. You just can't. True. So your truth will be his truth. And so it will be truth. Luke 1610 says, if you are faithful in little things,

you will be faithful in large ones. You want more, learn to be faithful in his things. And I kind of end it with. that because I have a couple more things. It's so good. You're preaching, woman. Oh my gosh. You dare to be right now. Click on. Click on.

All right. So I'll do this in two minutes or less. That's my truth. Okay. I like it. Now whether or not that's going to happen, I just don't know. But my truth is two minutes. We'll find out. So how do we reset? How do we say, I'm going to change how I am or how do you help somebody to change who they are? Because a lot of times the people that watch us live are actually practicing.

Like they're actually people who are not really, this does not define them. But I will tell you, we have people who watch this and listen to this podcast, more like on Spotify and Apple and stuff like that. We have a lot of people that we don't get to see or we don't get to know that this is them. So how do you, if you are living it out, truth you're not a performance-based Christian but you want to help others and disciple them so they're not how do you reset this and if you are this way here's what you got to do you just got to spend time with God when nobody sees you you got to get in that prayer closet when nobody knows

and you don't tell anybody that you've been in there and how long you spent in there otherwise you just performed you did that so you could tell other people potentially. You say nothing. Everything should be private. You don't need to tell people how much you spend time in the word and how much time you spend time in prayer. I mean, if it comes up, great. But on the whole, keep it to yourself. It's your business. It's between you and God. This is another one. And oh my gosh, please, for the love of all that is holy, stop posting everything. Oh my gosh, please. Yes. Thank you. About your life. about your spiritual walk, everything.

Like post less, spend more time with God. People care too much about what other people think. Learn to not care what other people think. It will be the best thing that you've ever done in your life. When you're happy and content with Yeshua and the Lord. And if people love it, that's great. But if people don't love it, that's great too. Learn to be content with you.

And if people come alongside of you, yay. If they don't, they're a loss. People don't love themselves. They just don't. I mean, you got to understand God made you. That's powerful. Love what he made. And don't feel like if people don't accept you or aren't coming alongside of you,

that that's a negative. It might be the best thing that ever happened to you. They might not be the best thing for you. So that's not a bad thing. Be honest about where you actually are. Okay, that's another thing. A lot of people, they lie to themselves. They have bought a bill of goods about themselves.

It's just not true. They have deceived themselves into believing that they are, who they want to be versus who they really are. You can never become that person if you believe you're already there. It'll never happen for you. Matthew 6.6 says, when you pray, go away by yourself. Then your father will reward you. Colossians 323 says, work willingly at whatever you do as though you were working for the Lord.

If your relationship with God only exists when people see it, I'm sorry to tell you that it's not. not a relationship. It's just not. I mean, how many people would want to date somebody like that or be married to somebody like that? You wouldn't. That's just the God's honest truth. You wouldn't. So why is it acceptable for God? Why does the Lord have to take that? He won't. So I'm going to leave you with this. First Samuel 16, 7, and I am way over two minutes. But I told you that was my truth. 1st Samuel 167 says people judge by outward appearance remember this people judge by outward appearance but the Lord looks at the heart so while you're trying to impress people remember you're not

impressing him and who do you really want to impress god or man and whichever one you decide on Remember this, what the word says too, is you can't serve two masters. You'll love the one or hate the other. So make sure you choose wisely. Because you really, he is worth everything. Man will let you down. God never let you down. He sticks closer than a brother.

Man does not. So while you're worried about pleasing them, you're displeasing God. When really, God's worth pleasing. he'll add all they seek ye first the kingdom of heaven and all these things will be added unto you seek him first see how much better he'll be for you than any man any woman any person he outranks them he outdoes them and he is way better amen all right now Tracy you have done phenomenal I'm gonna just I'm gonna give us some Tracy Tracy started feeling not good yesterday what time Uh, Monday night I kind of felt blah.

And then Tuesday I was like, oh. And then last after abide, I was like, it just went, uh, and then I laid in bed. And then you like fought the good fight of faith, spoke to your body. Yes. Fell asleep.

Yeah. I was like, this is stupid. I hate this. And you have to hate sickness. I did. I hate all night. I would wake up and be like, I hate this. And then I would fall back asleep.

And then I woke up and I felt like so much better. Like I was like, hot. Like, Jared's like, why are you sweating? I'm like, I don't want to answer that. You should have gone because I'm smoking. Yeah. Seriously. So I was like, I'm not going to answer that. I'll just ignore that. And then yeah, then I will, like, I just, now it's just like right here. And it's like ready to. Yeah. And here's the thing. And now you said you woke up and you felt really good this morning. You sound not good, but you said you feel great. Yeah, I feel great. So let that be a lesson. And I say this

on purpose. Yeah. Every time something like this comes. our way when we get a headache, when our back aches, when you get a, like, you feel like you got a limp because you sprained your ankle, whatever it is, something small, whatever it is. Take the opportunity at that time to speak over it, to hate it, to despise it, to command it to go. Like those are your opportunities to really see some healing in your own life. so that when you'd have to lay hands on the sick, you've experienced healing so much in your own life that you actually believe that what you're about to pray works.

It'll actually happen. For real. You'll take your own words seriously because you've seen it work in your own life. You're your own testimony. Right? So like I sing to her earlier because I was like, do you want to do the podcast?

And she's like, yeah, I feel great. And I'm like, that's what we got to do, people every single time a cold tries to come on a sore throat or whatever it is you speak to the mountain you cast it into the sea and you command it to go and watch it go and like you're going to just see things pop like popcorn because you'll see one healing after another in not only your life but in others and that's really what we're supposed to do walk in power amen power and authority when the lost disciple believers that's what this life is truly all about the rest of it is nonsense and when we put our priorities about other things then we get all screwed up the rest of it

is just not anything so we will see you on Friday thank you for joining us bye