The Hope Hotline - What Spiritual Maturity Will Cost You!

Episode Date: February 11, 2026

The Hope Hotline | S04-E09 | 02-11-2026

Real talk. Hello and welcome to the Hope Hotline. Thank you for joining us today. I feel very bright, very glowy, very gold. Very bright. I told them, I was like, man, my shirt is very busy. Very bright. Very bright.

I feel very, like I'm looking at myself right now. And I feel like, ooh. Hello, everybody. Today, I am super excited about our topic before we get into what Tracy is going to talk about. But I am very excited about. this topic, but I'm afraid to tell people what it is because you might turn me off, because this is going to be, wah, wah, high alert, high offense alert, potentially. Because a lot of times what we're going to talk about is spiritual maturity, like what is the cost of spiritual maturity,

going from milk to the meat. And I think a lot of people have deceived themselves that the word is very clear that we're to evaluate ourselves, and I feel like a lot of times, it talks about it in Romans, like a lot of times people don't evaluate themselves honestly. Tom was just talking about this at church on Sunday. I don't think people evaluate themselves honestly, so they think they're in the meat when actually you're still on the milk. And it's hard for people to swallow that. I mean literally we've had people or I can recall one specific person coming and saying to Tom that they were going to leave the church because they felt like he was preaching the milk instead of the meat. This person no longer walks with the Lord at all. But this person, if if this person would have actually realized they were getting the meat, it's because they were so, so.

immature on their walk with God that they were on the milk, didn't realize it. And if they had tried to eat the meat, they might have gotten sick. Because if you eat the meat too soon, it'll kill you. And I think that that was the case for this person. And they just didn't realize it. But I think that that's the case for a lot of people. Yeah. So, but thank God, all that can change. So my computer keeps dying or going out on me. So I'm going to have you do your thing. Okay. I don't need a plug. I need to fix something. Okay. So you do your thing while I do my thing. All right. Sounds good.

All right. Okay. If you are watching on Facebook, hello. You could be probably watching on the Hope Hotline or Foundation Church. And if you are watching the replay, feel free to drop in the comments that you're watching that and just say hello because we'll eventually see it. If you're watching on YouTube, hello. If you would love to come over to Rumble, that's where we're at. So Courtney is in the chat.

And of course, Talia, sitting right next to me. We got the two people on the chat. So if anybody else is in there, let us know where you're watching from. And we obviously have the podcast available later as well. So please head over there. Sometimes it's easier to listen instead of having to have it on YouTube and stuff, especially if you don't pay for like the premium stuff. That way you can always just listen to the podcast without like interruption.

I pay for all the things. So I always forget about those silly commercials that like to pop up. But those are your options. We do have our Black Rope TV too, but these are some of the easier options for a lot of you guys to find us on. And let's see what we got next. Yes, Ask Natalie. It will be coming on February 25th. So if you have any questions at all for her, start sending them.

I already found some good stuff. So I'm excited to collect that for her and get that all in order. Some really weird stuff too. So I think she'll have an opinion on it. And I'm very curious because every once in a while, I'm like, I wonder what Natalie thinks about this. And I'm like, I'll save it until the end of the month and I'll wait. But yeah, if you have anything at all that you've seen, like is new information out there.

Sometimes she's already studied it out. So it's worth sending over and sharing the wealth with whatever we got going on. You know that we're on TikTok. So please come find us. Hope has her Gen X, name that tune. And then Vanessa, you just never know when me and Vanessa will pop up. Talia never pops up anymore. But if you want to see her old content, you never know what you'll find on there too.

So that could be fun. We have our Dare to Be. And so this is, if you didn't see our commercial last week, this is our commercial, and I'll have a new one for you guys on Friday because it's going to play. Actually, I think it might have already gone out. But this is our other commercial. So check out Dare to Be. Invite a friend.

Come ready. No, pause, pause, pause. Restart. Here we go. Are you ready? Yes. Dare to Be is a night set apart for women who want more than routine faith. It's a space to reset your heart, renew your thinking, and step forward with intention.

Come February 20th, 7 to 9.30 p.m. Invite a friend and come ready for what God wants to do in you. Okay, so Dare to Be is coming up. You want to invite your friends to this. On Friday, we'll have a new commercial, and you're going to hear a very familiar voice. So that'll be fun. Hope is very excited about that.

I can already see it on our face. Excited about the new voice doing the next commercials. God bless it, yes. The Lord loves me. She did a great job, so we'll have a new one for that. But really consider who you can invite to this next dare to be. It's going to be great, guys. We have such a good time together, and it's fun.

It's just fun. know about you guys, but I love worshiping with just women. Like I love community worship. I love like on Sunday morning all of us, but there is something special like when it's the ladies singing on stage and it's all the ladies like our women's conference and these there to be ladies nights. Like there is just, it does something special to my heart. And I just love it. I love seeing us all together singing, praising God and just, I don't know, just taking time out of our very busy schedules to just connect together and then come hear the word. So make sure you invite you your friends, all your girlfriends, anybody that's been on your heart lately, this will be a great

opportunity for them to be in a very amazing atmosphere with all of these ladies. So I'll just do a couple more TikToks. We got Pastor Tom. He has his TLP clips and then his church one, all of his preaching messages as well. And then we've got our foundation church worship that we have TikTok as well. So if you guys want to follow us on those, if you're on TikTok, we would love that. And And that is it for today. Hot dog, let's do sponsors really quick. Okay, do you. Let's move into Real Estate Appraisal Associates of Southwest Florida Inc.

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They are automotivated to keep you safely on the road. Hansen's operates with Proverbs 163 at the core of everything they do, which is commit to the Lord, whatever you do, and he'll establish your plans. Give them a call at 941-460-3962. 14603962. And like, like we were saying, the main topic for today is about spiritual maturity. A lot of times people stay in the, and it's a dangerous place to be in the immature walk with God status versus the mature walk with God. When you're immature in your walk, you're easily, you're easily, world, you can be easily taken out. And the reason that is is because it's like when you're in the

wild, if you're in Africa, what do the pray go for every single time? The weak. The babies. Vulnerable, yep. You're because you're vulnerable. That's a great word for it. And when you are mature, that is where the scripture is being strong in the Lord and in the power of his might. So when you're mature in your walk, lots of times you see things coming before they arrive and you're able to ward them off because you've seen this before. It's an experience that you've undergone. When you are an immature believer, what you usually do is your walk is a walk of convenience with the Lord. It's a very emotional walk. It is something that is extremely shallow relationship. because you never allowed much root or much depth of that relationship.

Do you guys want to add anything to what I'm saying before I use my scripture? But do you want to add more to that specific little thing that the introduction of it? No, that's good. So in 1st Corinthians 1311, and it's New Living Translation, which you know I love, but 1 Corinthians 1311, Paul was talking to the Corinthians, and they were a hot mess, to put it lightly. Yeah, especially the Corinthians. Oh, my gosh.

Hot mess, and he was trying to save them from themselves. And really, when you are a baby, let's wait a lot of times. I would never, do I think I've arrived? No, not at all. Not at all. But I also know the amount of time that I've spent in the word, spin in prayer, spin in worship. Like where I was at to where I am now, I'll never want to go back to being a baby in Christ. No thank you.

I was like, like I was a ship in the waves being tossed to and fro when I was a baby. And no thank you. I was emotionally like sporadic, schizophrenic. if you will. That is no kind of life. I was saying to the girls, I was saying, this is a lot of Christians. I was saying to them before we got on,

this is what's probably going to offend many. But if you're a mature Christian, you don't get offended. And you just don't. We'll talk about this in greater detail, but like when you're a mature believer, it's pretty difficult for you to be offended. because you're not driven by your emotions or your feelings when you're a mature believer.

You can't be. That's how Jesus never got bothered. He just spoke truth, but it was like, it was like as if he was somewhat of a robot because he wasn't. He had feelings, but the truth had to be spoken. It had to be revealed and it had to be done without any emotion or feeling behind it. Because if that was the case, then, like when he did the whip of cords, there was anger and there was emotion in that. But when he spoke to people about the truth about themselves, he wasn't doing it to be mean. The heart behind what he was trying to do was to help them.

And a lot of times, I think a lot of people, when they speak to people, they speak with motives behind why they say what they say. But we should be like Jesus. We're telling someone the truth that benefits them to help them, not in response to how we feel towards them. Yeah. Even when he was making the whip of cords, it was for their benefit. It was righteous. Literally. But definitely anger involved.

Yeah, righteous. Righteous anger. And there is a difference than just being angry with somebody. And I find, like, sometimes I get so righteously. angry for the Holy Spirit when I see certain things. Oh my gosh, Tracy, like, I love you because this, I cannot stand this. On Sunday, you walk, do you know what I'm about to say? I don't know. On Sunday, this righteously makes me angry. But you do it. You helped me. He said I love you, so I think this is going to be okay. So during worship on Sunday, it's powerful. Our worship services have been

so powerful. I know you're going to say. Yeah. And like I'm in the back because I usually, like I have a job to do during service. So not necessarily do I want that job, but my husband has dictated that I have this job. So I do it. But it bothers me sometimes because it affects my worship. But what bothers me is because I have to work a lot of times.

My worship is not what I want it to be because I have to work. Whereas other people could absolutely be worshiping, but they choose to talk to their neighbor, laugh, joke around, hold hands, cuddle, like use that as a like, I love you, you love me instead of Lord, I love you. I know you love me. No, it's about, so on Sunday, there's these two. people just talking it up and Tracy politely and so so sweetly but I was like thank you Lord because that just irritates me for the Holy Spirit it righteously makes me mad I'm like

you're getting an opportunity right now to worship the Lord and you choose to talk to your neighbor like how disrespectful to the Lord so she's tight gently went up and said and they did didn't like it though I'm gonna be honest with you you didn't see that part but no I knew that's why I didn't look back I like I knew what's gonna happen but and I and I wait like the thing is like I waited and and it was just like it wasn't like like real quick like saying something to your neighbor or something like it was like a full conversation like it was so interruptive and it wasn't and you've got people that are standing in front of you that are trying to worship right how rude yeah

no it was yeah it was absolutely inappropriate so I'm not I don't even know these people are saved. Okay. But if they are, that's what being a baby Christian is, is like. And you're easily plucked when you're like that.

If you are not, if you don't have the mental capacity and the brain cells enough to know that that's not the time or place, then I don't know spiritually speaking where you're at.

Yeah. I really don't. So, but what I was saying to them, I digress, is very something along the lines of a lot of times people think that they're spiritually mature because of the way in which they worship. They go in to church and they are mighty worshippers. I mean, they put a lot of people to shame. The people that they put to shame, though, came to church in harmony with their

family and spouse and maybe had a godly conversation on the way in versus the person that was the mighty worshipper who is truly the true babe in their walk with God because they fought the whole entire way with their spouse or their children yelling, screaming, ranting, raving. It might have been while they were getting ready to come to church or getting dressed at home. Like if that's you and that is your Sunday, like your normal Sunday, you're like I know people have literally said to me that every Sunday they fight. tooth and nail.

And they think that because they're fighting tooth and nail, that's the enemy. And I'm like, that ain't the enemy. That's you. Enemy can't do anything to you unless you let him do it. And that means you're spiritually immature. And if you don't know that you can't see that that is either your carnal nature taking over and your response to whomever that delivery is to versus Satan. is trying to attack your family and you're like, not today, not going to happen and you shut it

down and you don't make it. That's a spiritually mature person. If that is your every Sunday or if that's your life, you need to really evaluate, which is what Romans clearly talks about. You need to evaluate yourself. You need to evaluate where you are spiritually speaking if that kind of stuff happens on the regular and you're home or with your friends because you might like you might be on your own you might have an apartment you know what I'm saying so you don't like live at home anymore and or with your parents or like siblings and stuff like that I don't know because I guess no that's true yeah I mean your house has older kids and my house has older kids so they have to like deal with their siblings or maybe you're maybe you're married and your kids are grown and they're not at home

anymore. It's just you and your spouse. What's that look like? Because that'll tell you whether you're spiritually mature or not. Mm-hmm. First Corinthians 1311 says, when I was a child, I spoke and thought and reasoned as a child. But when I grew up, I put away childish things. Well, what I would say to you is, do you act like a child when things happen? Because spiritually speaking, if you act like a child about these things, then you still are a babe and you're on milk. you're not on meat. And that doesn't mean you can't change. That means that you need to recognize it

so that you realize you're on milk so you can get to the meat. Because a lot of times it's like, I always say this. A lot of times people, like if they have kids, and Tom says this too, they have children. And they don't want to admit

that the child isn't saved. So they want to believe they are saved. Well, okay, the fact of the matter is, is they're not saved. So how do you pray for them? to become saved or how do you show them the way to Christ if you already believe they're there. True. It's not going to happen.

Truth is where things change and in order to have something change, you have to acknowledge truth. Go ahead. Does anybody want to add anything? And that's a good, that's a good gauge is that like if you are, if something rises up, there's an issue and you immediately act like a child, that's a good case. that's a good gauge. Like, okay, and just recognize.

Like you said, you can change it if you recognize it. The ones that, like, refuse to recognize it, and they only glorify their amazing worship and their very deep theology debates. Like, those people never recognize that they're immature in their walk because they have, like, these great debates over here and they worship really hard over here.

Right. But then the second something hard comes up, they act like a child. I have seen some of the most hateful people. Me too. be the biggest worshippers on Sunday and everybody thinks that they're these like stars. Yeah.

There are these Christian stars. And I'm like, if you understood how mean they are to their spouse or to their children or to people in general. Yeah. I'm like, you wouldn't think. Because that what you're seeing right there is what Vanessa said before we started the podcast,

a performance. It's performative Christianity. it's all a facade. It's like Facebook love lives. True. It is. That's exactly it. True.

The marriages that pretend that they're like always got to have a picture, always got to look like that they're the loving couple, but in all actuality, they hate each other. They hate each other and all they do is fight. And they're near divorce. Every week. I have saved myself.

I can't even tell you how long it's been since I've seen Facebook or dealt with that stuff. I'm like, because I can't bear it. Yeah. I can't bear it. Like, I'm like, you hate each other. You're just talking about divorce. I'm like, gosh. And now you're acting like you guys are the Valentine's Day. Stay off of Facebook. Yeah, but you don't want to kill somebody. You get to see the underbelly of it. You know what I mean? Like you know information that other people don't know. So that's like even harder when you know and then you see it displayed and it's just like a mockery because you, you know, you know, know it's not real. You want it to be real for them. You want them to have a great marriage, but they just

were with you in counseling a week ago. It's literally God watching us on his throne, seeing you, you know, go after it and worship. And God is like, I know what you did. Right, right before you walked in. Right before you went in. Yeah. What are you doing? I know. Get it right. And then let's go. Let's, you know. Exactly. This actually, this, because it's, the word says that our worship is like incense. He's like, this actually stinks to me. Knock it off. Well, and the thing is, if you look at,

which I won't go into detail, but if you looked at how it is, worship is an incense, but if you looked at how in the Old Testament, the tabernacle, how incense was burned and the significance and importance it was, and then you'd realize

how important your worship is. True. But. True. But if you're acting like a turd on the way there, or like if it is all a facade and if it is a performance, then just like be who you are until you can get it right. You be you.

No, don't be you like that. Don't listen to her. Don't listen to her. That's bad advice. And so if you really like nail it down, they're not even on milk. because the way that the word describes milk, milk is fundamentals. It's the repenting of evil deeds and placing our faith in God.

You don't need further instructions about baptism, laying on the hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. And so God willing, we will move forward to further understanding. So milk is all of those things that I just mentioned. They're not even doing that. You're not even on milk. Dude, are you even a believer at that point?

And so, true. Ask questionable. Actually drink the milk, build your foundation and then mature. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think, I don't know. I think that it's just very, very difficult, which that kind of changes my thought process.

Actually. I'm sorry. No, it's good. Why? Walk us through. I want to hear it. I know. Because some of what I have written down here wouldn't even apply to the milk.

So some of my stuff that I have might be wrong. Let's read it. Hebrews 5, 12 through 14. You have been believers so long that you ought to be teaching others. Instead, you need someone to teach you again the basic things about God's word. You are like babies who need milk and cannot eat solid food. For someone who lives on milk is still an infant and doesn't know how to do what is right. Solid food is for those who are mature, whose thorough training have the skills to recognize the difference between right and wrong.

And then if you go to chapter, yes, chapter six. verse one yeah which is what i have this thing in my my notes so part of what i have it then what i do have is right which you just threw me for a loop venison because i'm sitting here going well if that's what did chat ch pt tell you that no i i just read it out of the heroes i had i've because i have hebrew 512 in mine which solidifies what i wrote down but now i started second guess on myself i know i'm sorry i had actually like looked into this recently because I was like, what is milk? What do you define milk as? And so that it led me to Hebrew 6. Which says, so let us stop going over the basic teachings about Christ again. And again,

let us go instead and become mature in our understanding. Surely, we do not need to start again with the fundamental importance of repenting from evil deeds and placing our faith in God. You don't need further instructions about baptisms, the laying on of the hands, the resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment. And so, God willing, we will move forward to further understanding. Okay. Then that goes with Hebrews 512 then. Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, then I feel a little bit better about what I. Okay. I just literally like, we might have to shut, close up shop. I might jack this up. I feel like, I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I feel. I'm back in play. Yeah, we're good.

We're good. Let's keep going. Because, well, the thing is, is that was good, though, because I'm like, wait a minute, part of what you're saying is, like, that is very true. That's why I was like, hmm. So lots of reasons why I made a list of why people don't want to mature. But the thing is, what I'm going to do is I'm going to give you the reasons why they don't want to mature, but I'm going to tell you the reasons when you do mature, the benefits of that maturity. Yeah. That's good. So a lot of times people don't want to mature because of comfort.

They're very comfortable. Okay. In order to, you remember how like, I don't know, I'm not like Tracy, right? Tracy is, how tall are you, Tracy? 5-8. 5-8. I'm only 5-2. But I, too, had growing pains.

True. Okay, do you remember the growing pains? Do you remember, like, when you would hit growth spurts and, like, how painful you your legs would ache. I do. Okay. I remember, like, my mom having to rub my legs and stuff, because it hurts so bad.

And it wasn't because it was very painful. And not like yours, you probably had major growth spurts. And that was way more painful than what I did. But when you grow, it's not comfortable. True. And sometimes it's painful. Because sometimes with that growth requires purging. Right.

That is true. Which is what we'll talk about further. But it doesn't feel good. Growth doesn't feel good all the time. So people don't want the uncomfortability or being uncomfortable in that process. So they just stay right where they're at. Not knowing all the while that if you were to grow how good you would feel from that growth. But it's getting past the painful process of it.

a lot of times people don't want they want to be comfortable and they feel like if i stay where i am i can still behave the same way you can't behave the same way you are responsible for what you know and what you don't know and the longer you're you call yourself a christian um that doesn't mean that you shouldn't be getting rid of a certain lifestyle a lot of times the reason they want to stay that way is because they don't want to walk in obedience. Facts. And they feel like if I stay a babe, then I can still behave the same way. Correct. You can't. It's not possible because you'll still be accountable for not learning what you should and shouldn't have been doing. People say, well, I'm accountable for what I know and not for what I

don't know. That only will take you but so far in your Christian walk. And then you'll be accountable for not knowing what you should have known. I hope that makes sense. I don't even understand that. process like to say I'm only responsible for what I know and not what I like why do you not like I just I want to know more so like to me it's almost like embarrassing to admit there's like so much I don't know even though I know that but to like use it as a crutch to be like well I don't know everything and use it as a way to be like I'm not responsible like I take my hands off the responsibility of that because I don't know I don't think I think it's more not about like you're you're well you're bothered about is like no things that would help you and propel you in a closer walk with the Lord, not obedience things. You want to know the inner workings of Christianity and having to have a more firm foundation. I'm telling you, these people want to use not knowing, like, I didn't know that it was sin to have sex outside of marriage. I didn't know that. I thought if you love the person, it was okay.

Yeah. That's what I'm talking about. You are. There are no ceremonies back in the Old Testament. Oh my gosh. But like for me, like if I thought like if I. That is so true right there. No, it is. It's 100%.

You were saying was you would want to know what all the sins are. Like if I thought that, if I was like, well, I didn't know. Like as soon as I'm like, is that okay? Like I look it up. Like I look up everything. If you tell me something, I don't believe you. I look it up. I'm like a Gen Z.

Trust but verify. Always. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I don't even know if I trust, but verify. I verify everything. Everybody should be like that, though. That's why Jinziers are a phenomenon. Okay, but everybody actually should be like that. And that's what makes them so great. Well, that's what I don't understand about that thought process to be like, oh, well, I didn't know. Like, that's embarrassing to me because I would have looked at, like, my personality and how I do things, I look it up. Like, if I don't know something, I don't like not knowing. The second I'm like, oh, wait, I don't know. I look it up. Like, I don't use it as a.

That's why you didn't fall for COVID, though. True. Yeah. Okay. That's because we don't operate in believing everything that people tell us. I can't. I can't do the ignorance thing. Like, I don't know.

You have to think for yourself. Spiritually speaking, that's what discernment is. True. Thinking for yourself by allowing the Holy Spirit to be the guiding force behind that. Yeah. That's discernment. 100%. Yes.

And how you fall for things and how you're fooled by things is because, Because lack of spiritual maturity. Or you're believing and hoping in the best in someone. When all the while the Holy Spirit is like, and you're choosing not to listen. Right. Yes. Yeah.

Which again is spiritual immaturity. Or ignorance. Or you're dumb as a box of rocks. It's one of those. Or disobedience, right. Exactly. Like you know, you know. Willfully disobey.

Willfully being disobedient. I see that all the time too. And they admit it afterwards. Like once they have to deal with the consequences of their decision, they're like, I knew I just, I just wanted to do what I wanted to do. Yeah.

And I'm like, because there's zero foundation. Right. There's zero, they've not laid out, laid out the groundwork. So, it's like building on sinking sand.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Which comes to my last one. Any wind comes and they're like, gone. Gone.

But the thing is is, You're on sinking stand in a house made of straw and hay and sticks. It's all the same thing. Like the three little pigs. And the foundation is milk, is the land of the hands, is resurrection of the dead. That is your foundation. That is milk. And then as you spiritually mature, that's what you build on.

People are not even at the foundation part. They're not even at milk. Yep. it's so true it is so true and the thing is is and it goes back to which this which i'm going to piggyback but a spiritually mature person even if it's uncomfortable they do what is inconvenient not what is convenient 100% yes yes every day which is thinking for yourself yeah yeah spiritually speaking no it's true yeah and then when you yeah because when you are spiritually immature there's always give me a lot of voices. Like everybody has an opinion. Everybody thinks that they know.

And if you're not hearing from like the one true voice, which is hard when there's a lot of sound, a lot of, like somebody you trust said something. And then your mom said it and then your dad said it. But then your pastor said it. And now it's now it's all confusing because you're not, you're not being spiritually mature and listening to God. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that's exhausting. It is exhausting. And a lot of times the voices you're listening to are ones that are easily offended, which is my second one. True. A spiritually mature person, as I already stated,

is not easily offended. Or should I say, or offended? I mean, you can, like, I loved, like, oh my gosh, I've talked about her before, but my boss that I had not, when I worked for a

company called Celebrate, the boss that I had, she was a Christian believer. And she taught me some of the best things that I carry to this day. Great manager. But one of the things that she was very good at is if you came to her

because you were bothered by something, right? She just wouldn't let you get away with it. What she would do is she would ask you a series of questions like, why do you believe that? Why do you think that? And then it would continue until you were like, Like you start out like this wide and she's narrowing you right into like this pinpoint. So let's like let's pinpoint.

What is the real problem here? We started very broad, but we're going to pinpoint. What's the real issue here? Yeah, that's good. Is it that you're really bothered about something else? Let's address that problem. Yeah. Or is this a real problem that we need to take care of and let's fix it?

it? Or is it a critical spirit? Which having a Christian boss that handled and managed that way, whether it was a believer or not a believer, really paid off. But it helps keep a calm in the midst of something that could have been a real storm with a group of women that work together. Yep. Very true. Yep. Because, I mean, it really does matter who you listen to. And it really does matter who you take advice from. Yes. And you really shouldn't be listening to somebody who's easily offended or somebody who isn't calm. Right. That loves the storm, that loves drama. I mean, literally stay away from those people. They will create a very tumultuous life for yourself. And any, a a very mature spiritual believer does stay away from them because they recognize it for what it is.

They use discernment and say, this is chaos. I want no parts of chaos. But a lot of times, like a lot of times people, well, immature believers, they love it because their walks with God are so dull and in almost void that the drama inspires them. It gives them life versus. what the word does. Right. 100%. Yeah. Stay away from them.

Be a mature believer. A mature believer wants no parts of that. Right. Once no parts of any of that. No offense. You can literally have a conversation with somebody and walk away and not be offended by it. Absolutely. Okay, so everybody airs what they feel.

Everybody has an opinion. I mean, I do it all the time with people. all the time. I talk about things that I think might bother them or they think might bother me, and I don't always agree. Sometimes I do, you know. I do agree with them.

But sometimes I don't agree with them. It is not going to change my relationship with any of them because it doesn't matter at the end of the day. So what you don't agree? It's not the end of the world. Right. I don't agree with anybody all the time. Right.

And I know the Lord doesn't definitely agree with me. all the time and he still doesn't ditch me right so like you got to be able to handle not it not being having somebody speak truth to you without it bothering you and destroying you yeah agree now maybe the motive of the heart with them isn't right so maybe you need to think is this a person that is actually best for me do they work on my for my best or are they trying to sabotage me And if that's the case, then you need to say, maybe I don't hang out with you so much. But if a person isn't like that and their motive is pure, then you say, I'm going to cling to this person. I'm not always going to agree with this person.

But you know what? Thank God they're in my life. Yeah. Yeah. And you're never going to agree with everybody all the time. It's what you do with the disagreements that help that relationship grow. And, I mean, if you think about it, some, like I don't argue with Tom hardly ever. But we don't agree with each other a lot.

And by us not agreeing, we've actually learned how to become a really solid couple. But also, like, by not agreeing, it has, like, later on, I've literally been like, wait a minute, I was wrong. He was absolutely right about that. And then you're able to go back and say, you know what? Through time, you know, a couple years ago when you said that to me, I thought you're crazy. I thought that was like, no, you were wrong. But now I'm like, spiritually where you're at, and now I see it in a whole new light.

Your relationships, if you allow differences to help build that relationship, they will. They'll actually make you better and stronger in your marriage. Because a lot of times people feel like not agreeing or disagreeing or whatever. That's such a huge negative. But you can buy those things. you can have a better and stronger relationship. It's how you deal with it.

Like if you, because you don't agree, you want to fight, argue, and try and manipulate, you're going to destroy that relationship. But if you can disagree, but find a common ground of like, okay, we're not going to agree on this, but you know what? I'll search it out, I'll figure it out,

and you'll be right or I'll be wrong, but it's not going to affect my relationship with you. We'll actually build a better relationship being able to have a place of where we don't agree on something, but it doesn't affect us in any way. Does that make sense? That's maturity. And that is so uncommon, unfortunately.

You know, like most people, especially with the people that they're the closest to, get so easily offended. And then it is, like Jeff always says, Jeff and Vanessa say, like what hills are worth dying on. Like you kind of, not many. You identify those. and it seems like people, like, they can't do it. Every hill is worth dying on.

Every hill is worth giving up on. And I don't, that's why I, like, I really hope all what you just said, people, like, I hope they have, like, a revelation. Like, I hope who's listening, like, hears this and actually, like, it hits, not just their head knowledge, like, actually hits them. Because it is exhausting to live a lifestyle of, like, hearing two different stories. And then every time, because somebody doesn't agree with you in the moment, because, like, you said later on you might actually agree with them or they might come back and agree with you

but in the moment every time having to be upset because you don't have the same exact feelings like that's exhausting it's right which you're going to find that in friendships but i find it like I mean friendships are so secondary to marriage you know so you may you're going to have that in friendships i mean that's just common yeah like but when you're married people find this such as such a detrimental thing and it's like it's not detrimental it's detrimental in how respond to it. That's it. A immature believer reacts. Right. They react. Right. Right. Whereas a mature believer, oftentimes doesn't respond. Right. Because there's not, you don't respond. You just resolve. Right. But that's maturity and that I don't, I think, that's, I don't see that very often. I really

don't. Like, I don't see people having that self-control to not immediately respond because they want to either prove that they're right or they feel like there's injustice or, or They feel like you're not understanding. And I don't, I just think it's such an uncommon. They have a point to prove. Right. Who cares? Because that's pride.

Again, an immature believer is very prideful. Very, very prideful. So what I did is I made a list. When you're a mature, when you're a mature believer, based on what we just talked about, you stop needing to have constant validation. Yeah. True. First of all, if you need constant validation, you are high maintenance.

Dear lords, I just like, I have no time. Right. Well, and probably insecure. Like, you're probably very, very insecure. So find your identity in Christ, know who you are to him. Right. Yes. But let me just tell you, the worst thing you can be and the most P.U.

You stink is somebody who's needy. Oh my gosh. Neatiness is stinkiness as far as I'm concerned. I have no, like, if I, if I start feeling. like or if I start seeing or if I see it right away, somebody is needy or I can handle pride. Like pride is something like because a lot of times prideful people are still somebody you can talk to. But if a person that needs constant validation is like it's a repellent to me.

Like some people don't mind it at all. I can't stand it. I can't do it. you're too desperate. You're too desperate. You're too needy. Like I'm like so polar opposite of that. You are.

That like I can't deal with it. Whereas I guess some people are really sensitive and very sweet people. They aren't repelled by that. Right. They're repelled by pride because that's right. That's probably true. Whereas me, I've had to deal with pride. So I understand it.

Yeah, you have a little bit of them. I have a clear understanding of that. that doesn't bother me a confident person that's prideful that i don't like a confident person i like yeah i don't like an a prideful arrogant person but you could deal with them but i can deal with them i'm not i don't think i've ever been arrogant but prideful oh yeah oh yeah i don't have i don't have enough confidence to be arrogant but i do have enough confidence to be prideful okay there is a difference I like it. There is a difference.

Not much, but there is. I didn't cross the line of arrogance. I'm not that, I'm not great about, I mean, like, people who are arrogant are usually people who are really good at something. That's true. Yeah. And they know they're so good at it. I've never really been that great at anything. So arrogance was never a real issue for me.

Pride all day long. emotional hand holding oh dear me oh my yeah these are people who are like easily offended if you're easily offended you probably need constant validation self-evaluate and see if i'm really telling you something true okay if you're easily offended or easily bothered by things you're probably somebody who needs constant validation you have a need for emotional handholding uh you have to win every argument. That is not good. You like I get that part. I get that part. Like I used to have to win every argument because I thought I was right about everything. That was my pride though. That was pride talking. And that listen just so you know that's disgusting too. Be humble,

man. Who cares if you're right? I have learned this. People don't want to be around that either. No, they really don't. And here's this. You repel people that way. There is something sweet. But what the problem is, is just from personal experience here, having to win every argument, you're not like that with everybody. Okay. You're not like that with everybody. So a lot of times you fool yourself because you're like, well, I'm not like that.

I don't have to win every argument. Well, you might not have to win every argument with everybody. but there are certain people that you have to win every argument with. Yeah. And that's what I'm talking about, just from personal experience. I'm talking from... Like-minded, like to do that. They both find each other.

And then people that don't like to argue are just like, whatever, hope you win. You know? Yeah, well, because sometimes there's an intimidation. True. Right? So there will be some people that I'd be like, Yeah. I'm not, like, I'm not intimidated by many or much, okay?

But then there would be some people that are like, it's not worth the, I don't really care. Because pride was like, that's not worth my fight. Right, right. That wasn't that, it wasn't that I had to be right. I already knew I was. They weren't worth my fight. Right.

But then there were, there were people that I was like, when we're done, you'll know I'm right. Even if you think I'm wrong, when I walk away, you're probably going to say I'm right just to stop the argument. But that'll be fine with me because I'll be right. That's matching the New York energy we were talking about. You're going to match that energy. Yeah. It's head to head. It's ridiculousness. Yeah, I know. It's spiritually very immature. You're a babe. Don't be that way. Humble. Humble is the key. Humble is the key. I am like, like right now for me, I am like a dog with trying to be.

like I just I was just telling somebody earlier today I saw my husband be he's a humble person anyway you know a lot of people don't think that he is he's he is probably one the most humble people I've ever met in my life because he's quick to say I'm wrong he's quick to say I'm sorry and when he tries to correct people a lot of times he tries to be very gentle I'm learning that. I'm working really hard on parts of my life, spiritually speaking, that cannot be existing anymore. And like every year, every day, every week, the Lord is like right there, right there, right there. And I'm like, okay.

Okay. Keep smiling. All right. I hear you. But I just saw him do something. something so humble a few weeks ago that it radically, like, it radically, it was just between he and I, like, but it radically, like, kind of shook me. And I was like, man, like, I know why the Lord uses him. It's, oh, to be like that. I'm going to get there. But it's amazing that, yeah,

It's amazing that humbleness is so, I think that's one of the reasons why I talked about it. Was it a couple weeks ago? Was it last week about being humble? I think that's one of the reasons why is because, like, the Lord is showing me how important and profound being humble can radically change. So many people around you. It's true. Absolutely. Yep.

And there's a. There's a reason why we all are really supposed to walk in it. Yeah, I agree. When you are easily offended, you have no restraint. But when you're mature, you've learned restraint. And how, like, for me, like, I have such a respect for people that can restrain themselves. Because all my life, I've never really restrained myself. Like, if it was in here, it came out here.

if I was like mad you know I was I had little to no restraint and for me like people who could I never really thought they were weak especially somebody who I knew could really like either in a word debate crushed the person that they were speaking to

I just saw this lots of probably people are lots of people already probably saw this but there was like it was at a sporting event or something like this and this guy came off and he was mouthing off to this other guy like he was like just giving him an earful and people were trying to separate the guy that it was just run in his mouth which used to be me um like just run in his smack at this person like like threatening him and like telling him he could take him outside which they're already outside but whatever and

The guy that he was talking to was just smiling and like kind of scoffing at him wherever. The whole time this little Minkum poop is mouthing off. He's mouthing off to a UFC professional fighter that could have killed him. Yeah. That showed restraint. Yeah. And I'm like, man. Mad respect.

Yep. Because he could have crushed him. He could have killed him. And the whole entire time, he said nothing. Yeah. Like that's a mature individual. That's a man. Like, that's what all of us should be.

Instead of being offended and feeling like he had to, like, show him who he was, he just was like, you're not worth my time. Like, it's true. And that's really how we should be. Not easily offended, not easily bothered. Be meek, which is what that guy was. He was meek. He showed restraint.

What were you going to say? You know what God told me when I showed up at Foundation Church? He says, he goes, you will not be offended at this church. Like he was telling me, you will not be offended. It's not an option. Oh, not because we weren't going to say anything to offend you. No. He was telling you, you better not.

No, you will not. Not even you better not. He said, you will not be offended at this church. It's not an option. You will not be offended. The opportunity will be better at yourself over and over again. Yeah. And so I just.

Sunday. So I, like, I made it like a mantra of mine when people would say something to me. Like, I just don't like, I don't want to like hurt. I'm like, you can say whatever you want. I will not be offended. I'm, I'm very, very hard to get to a place where I'm like offended. You'll have to say a lot to make me get to that place. And so because it was like something God told me, it wasn't even just from the pulpit, which I'm sure that's what like the original thing was. But it was even relationships with people. Like I just refused to get offended because God told me I can't, it's not an option. You won't get offended. You know, I think about this.

I think of, well, I'm thinking of one scenario with both you and Vanessa that you had to deal with somebody. And this person, like, just went out of their way to cause issues and problems and divisiveness and the whole entire time. And you aren't not being true to yourself. And that's what a lot of times people feel like if they know somebody is bothered by something and that person doesn't respond to it. but just in like shows kindness and doesn't change like in how actually that's how you're supposed to spiritually that's how you're supposed to be and that's exactly how both of you were you were still nice to this person you are still kind to this person you never showed in any way of being any different towards this person even though they were being very different towards you

and that is spiritual maturity spiritual maturity is when like things change with somebody you don't change right yeah it's like the UFC fighter because that's offense being offended correct it's like the USC fighter like you know when you're living a pure life and you know you haven't done anything that will come out there's no reason to like go and talk to you about what's going on or to like explain while they're like you you know where you stand you know that there's nothing in the dark you know that you could one word say what's true and what's been said, like, just like the UFC fighter. He knew with one punch, with one armhole.

I don't know all the things. Grab what's, Demi an UFC fighter move that would knock somebody out. If you're asking me, you're asking the wrong person. Take care of them. Because I know the right hook. My son lost and I thought he was winning. Okay. I know nothing.

Exactly. So a choke hold. Choke hold? Okay, a choke hold. Like, you know, all he had to do was do one move and that guy was down. And he didn't have to because he knew what he was able to do. So a lot of the times when it is when people are upset, with me or Vanessa or whatever,

it usually is something just underlining. And we know eventually the truth comes out. It has everything to do with them and nothing to do. Right. I mean, in this scenario anyway. Right. I'm not. But a lot of times that's how it is.

It's either somebody's going through something and is it really you? It might be you. Yeah. But it's probably on a grander scale many other things. Right. Right. So you're just a part of that equation. And so to allow that to affect your life.

Right. You're crazy to let that affect your life. You can still, depending on who the person is, like this person was hateful. They literally went around trying to be divisive and mean and deceptive and drama driven. Like those are the people that you kind of got to cut and eradicate. Because, but you still, you don't have to be ugly and you don't have to be mean.

You don't have to like be a part of it. But you still, if you were to ask the Lord, what does the Lord say about your enemies? To heap holes of kindness on them. Love them. And to love them. But loving them doesn't mean enabling their bad behavior. Ever. And spiritually speaking, if you were to ask the Lord, how should you respond to a situation

with somebody that you either like or you don't like? He's going to tell you to be consistent. And to treat them a certain way. way. Now, if it's your husband, then you're going to have to, like, die to your flesh and pray over that situation. If it's your friend, well, you have to determine, is this friend, like, worth it? Okay, pros and cons. If they are, then you just don't really respond and you, like, I've had to do this. You don't really respond because, like, it usually works its way out, right? And then you grow from it. Who cares, right? But if you let it be a problem, then it's going to be

worse than what you're actually walking through in that moment. Do you know what I'm saying? And Satan will have a field day with it. Yep. And the cool thing is in Proverbs 16.7, it says, when a man's ways please the Lord, he makes even his enemies be at peace with him. True. Boom. Right there. So even if you have to do the third one, which is, yep, even if you have to do the third one where the person is it was a friend or you like the person. Yeah. But you've determined. not worth the investment, you still, you may remove that relationship, but you still aren't ugly with that person. You just don't enable bad behavior. But you don't have to change who you are.

Spiritually speaking, a spiritually mature person is not moved by anything. They're not. It's not that you have no emotion. It's just you control your emotions. You're not carnal. Right. Spiritually, you respond how Jesus would. Absolutely.

And that's the biggest difference of all. So, all right, we have 35 seconds. Anybody left anything to say? Otherwise, we're going to peace out. Yeah. Because my next one is something else. Something else. Praise the Lord.

And we'll move into that on Friday. Or a minute. Natalie's not here Friday, is you? No. We'll move into that on Friday. All right, 14 seconds to go. see you. Thank you so much for joining us. See you on Friday. Bye.