The Hope Hotline - When Intimidation Keeps You Silent

Episode Date: September 2, 2026

When Intimidation Keeps You Silent

Hello. How you guys doing? We've been having a, well, Norman's melting down and like melting down in a like way. Yeah, she's giving us Cliff Notes. We're, okay, listen, I just need you to know the first 35, 40 minutes of this is not going to be too spiritual, potentially. Potentially. I will try and put the biggest spiritual spin on what we're about to talk about as I possibly. can. We might be able to. But probably not. I am so flipping intrigued right now. It is insane.

You're welcome. Yeah. Yeah. Well. No, I'm a good. Yeah, you're welcome. Okay. The world is going to hell in a handbasket. Like, this is crazy. You know what, too? Like, I did, this comes to my mind. You guys were, well, Tracy, I don't think you were here, but Vanessa was. I don't, but I don't know if you came. My ladies' Bible study that I would have on Sunday nights where I taunt on Revelation. Did you go to that, Vanessa? I did. I was there. I was there.

You guys were on like week 175 when I came. Took over a year. The Ring of Fire. Have you guys been paying attention to the Ring of Fire? No, that makes sense. Remember in Revelation about the Ring of Fire? No. But is that what's happening right now?

Back is itchy scratchy. Yeah. In 30 days, we have had in the ring of fire. Okay. It's between 180 and 190 earthquakes. Oh, I do remember. I do remember. Okay.

Yeah. I'm ready. Jesus is coming back. Take me now. I think I thought, because I was talking to Aaron about the ring of fire and he's been paying attention to it too and he's like I'm ready Jesus just take me oh I'm like what the what but study it out ring of fire revelation in times very interesting what's going on I'm telling you right now it is crazy people are going off the rails in many ways

but the ring of fire is super interesting spiritually speaking and that's about all you're going to for the next 30 minutes of anything godly, Christ-like, end times. Biblical. Okay. Every single podcast right now, and it might happen until, I don't know, until next week. I don't know. It might end on Friday. But Lindsay Clancy, let's catch up because.

Let's do it. It's a scene, man. It's a wild scene. It's a wild scene. So yesterday they were deadlock, right? I was thrilled about this. I got to get centered. Yeah.

And then can you fix your thing? Deadlock or headlock? Deadlock. Did you see that video? Oh. Yeah. Thank you, Norma. Thank you, Normie.

I didn't even know that. What do you mean? I would be the ones to say headlock. There was a video and this husband was like talking and his wife's like, yeah, they are in a headlock right now. And he's like, they're what? She's like, a headlock. They're in a headlock.

So then there's all these memes of like these things in headlocks. Oh, my gosh. That's what been funny. They're in a deadlock. It's like the chimp on my shoulder. The chimp on her shoulder, which is what Vanessa always thought. Oh, yes, I remember that. Yes.

Because she had a chip on her shoulder. Because why would I have a monkey on my back and not a chimp on my shoulder? It made sense in my brain. Well, actually. Right? I am, well, I was about to say I was fluent in English, but maybe not. Depends on who you talk to. If it's ebonics, I might be even right there.

But I'm just saying that makes sense in my head. And I speak English way better than you. Right? So I'm scared right now. Personally for myself. Yeah, she made it. She made it make sense. 100%.

So it was a gridlock? Deadlock? Deadlock. Deadlock. Deadlock. It's dead lock. Deadlock. Deadlock.

Gridlock is traffic. When you're driving. Oh, my word. I was like, wait. The champ is making less and less sense because of out of embarrassment and pride. I was so sure. No, my gosh. It's deadlock.

Deadlock. Thank you. Yes. We are going to talk about intimidation. Right. Right now. Right. We might need to give an English lesson.

We do. We need to go through all of the vocabulary words. All the things. Okay. So. Okay. Deadlock. They are in a deadlock.

They came out yesterday at like 10.30, 1130 in the morning. And the job. judge was like, no. The jury came out. The jury came out. And then the judge was like, no. Not having it. Not having it.

Because so much money has been spent. Yeah. And he's going to have to do his due diligence that if, because for another trial, he has to like make sure that he has done all that he can. Right. Right. It's a lot of money. It is.

Along with many other things. Right. Go ahead. And it can go all different directions. So supposedly we can do a mistrial and then the persecution, persecution. Prosecution. Prosecution. Oh, my word.

It's something else. Prosecution. Has to decide if it's worth a try, like to go further into it or if they want her to sit in jail or they, like there's all these different directions that can go. So it doesn't sound like anybody really knows what's going to happen if they have a mistrial. It's like it's kind of like the judge. Like everybody has to like make decisions on what they think they're going to end up doing. So it's so confusing right now what they're going to do.

So anyways, so we're like, okay, tomorrow they're going to come back. But when I keep hearing from like lawyers and people that have been in these situations, if you send the jurors home and they've already made a decision, the likelihood of them changing their minds is barely, it's like never going to happen. Okay. Especially women. Especially women. Yeah.

Because like this is the thing like, Tom's saying. But I think he got it from me because just from life, right? Yeah. Yeah. Women by nature will forgive, we'll forgive, we'll forgive, we'll forgive, we'll overlook. We'll overlook. But once we're done and we've made up our mind, you're probably not going to turn us

around. Like we have, we have gone the lengths of devotion and loyalty that we're going to go. And once we're done, we're tapped out. You're not going to probably turn the heart and mind of a woman back. It's just our nature. So Tom has always been like a scorned woman that's totally done. You're probably not changing her mind. Well, same thing with this.

Once a woman has like, in my opinion, if I was on a jury and once I made up my mind, especially like how serious this is, you're probably not changing my mind. Like I'm like a scorned woman. I am embedded in that decision. Yeah, I know. Like my feet are, ah, my feet are in the sand. Like I'm dug down. Like they're in concrete.

I know. And this is like, I feel like you either are one side or another at this point. Like you're either, there's too much unknown so you're going to choose that side or you don't care. You think she killed them and she's guilty. Like it doesn't seem like. And then, of course, there's like the crazy people that are like, I understand. And like they're literally psychos. It could even deadlock.

It could even be deadlock where it's like somebody doesn't think she did it and there's not enough proof. And then somebody doesn't believe that she actually, I mean, there could literally be people in there that think that it's the lesser of all of them themselves. But they in good conscience can't say that she should go free. So they're going to do whatever that lesser one, which is manslaughter, not which one. terminally charged. No, there's one where she gets life and then there's one where it's not premeditated or whatever. It's like 20 years. It's like 20 years.

Yeah. So they may want to be just doing the 20 years and the other people are like maybe life, right? You're deadlocked. You're not. It could be nobody knows. It could be where they do believe she did it. But they can't figure out which sentence to give her versus there's not enough proof. We're not sending her away along with people who are like, well, she did do something.

You know, we, you know, the odds are high. But in my opinion, like I said last week, there is not, we put people in jail for like hardly any evidence of it. And I'm not saying they should go free because they probably did it. But our law says if you don't have enough evidence, you shouldn't go to jail just because your gut instinct says that they did it. that's the rule of law you're guilty until i mean you're innocent until proven guilty and and the problem is is nowadays it's reversed that's one of the reasons why about said it wrong way because nowadays is you've got to prove your innocence because everybody walks in the courts saying you're guilty that is not how we go into a court system right i mean tom and i watch this stuff

all the time and literally we're like there was no evidence now and tom and i both will be like B'allans are they did it. But no proof. You can't send somebody away with no proof. Right. It's not right. It's not right. Work until you get it. And if you're in that situation, you would want somebody to do that for you. That's what, that's how me and Tom always think. We're always like, well, what if that was us? Right. Or your child. Or your mom. Yeah. Or your sister. Yeah. Literally. She's breaking me out of jail. I know you would. Apparently in Mexico, you can buy somebody out of jail. Oh.

I thought that bad. I'm counting on it. Like, it's so funny because Leanne Morgan, that Leanne Morgan, that comedian has that funny joke where she's on a plane with a guy who was telling her about his grandson

who he was saying like, he'll commit a crime for his grandson. If his grandson committed a crime, he would or killed somebody, he would cover up for him. And so she's sitting there going, holy crap, I'm sitting next to somebody who would cover up a murder. And then she started thinking about But she goes, I'd do it.

She realized, I'm no different than this crazy guy right next to me. I probably kid, I cover up for my kid. Oh, my gosh. You know, like, I don't know. It's a, I personally am so against them sending her away without full proof and full evidence. There's just not enough evidence. It's too, like the thing where, I don't know if you've seen this, but they have documented proof that her husband rented two days before the killing, an apartment in New York, from this girl who he's now married to's father.

I mean, they knew each other. Right. Like, were they having an affair? Right. You don't, why are you renting an apartment in New York? you live in Massachusetts. Why would you? Like, it's too suss, man.

It's all proof. That doesn't mean that he did it. It just doesn't mean that he didn't have something to do or have some kind of knowledge about something. Like, it's not, like, I mean, this is a person's life. It is. It is. It's like her whole life.

And she already, like, can't walk. She's already paralyzed. Right. That's rough. She already lost three kids. At her own hands, maybe. Maybe, yeah. But she has to live with that, whether it was her or either way.

She doesn't have three children anymore. Which, again, I really lean the highly that she did do it. But did he play a part in that? I don't know. I do think that I don't know how innocent she really is. I mean, I don't know. Like, did he play a part in? and while she was drugged

and leading her through the whole entire thing. I don't know. Right. Because, in my opinion, that would explain her body temperature. Because if it happened earlier and he played a part in it

and her being out there, do you know what I'm saying? It all would add up to a certain extent. But then you have the phone calls that don't add up. So I just don't, the whole thing is a mystery. It's too much. It's way too much. Yeah.

That's why you can't like, It's somebody's life. I don't know. It's crazy. Like footage. Like somebody's like, that's why we need flock cameras. Yeah.

I'm just saying. Supposedly, yeah. And that's another thing people are saying. Like nobody's coming out saying like I walk past the house. But apparently the neighbor said that the window was open way before. So that. Way before. He left.

It was like two in the afternoon or something like that. And so the thought is that she could have already been dead or not dead. she could have already been strangled upstairs in her room. And that's why her court temperature was so low because the bedroom door was open. The bedroom window was open. Right. And she was just laying there. And then everything happened after that.

And he did everything. And then attacked her and then dangle it her out the window. So. Okay. And I thought that was weird because it's January, nobody has a window open. But also very weird that the hose was attached to the house. Up north, you don't keep your hose attached to the house in the wintertime. And she was soaking wet when she made it to the emergency room.

And there wasn't enough snow on the ground for her to be soaking wet. So then another thought was maybe he tried to drown her and make that look like that. And that's why she was soaking wet. Or to make her freeze. Or to make her freeze. Right. With the core temperature. Didn't he look all that stuff up?

How fast is? Everything was looked up. Yeah. And like, and then they're like, well, she looked up like where the, what's the vein in your throat? The coronary or something like that. Okay. Vanessa, can you say what that is? Corottery.

I don't know. You make me look good. She put two words together. That's why she didn't. So apparently she researched that. She calls for anything. Hey, besides the obvious, what would you change about yourself? Hmm.

Besides the obvious? I think, if you've never seen that video, it's Jare going up to Vanessa. It's saying, besides the obvious, what would you change? change about yourself. She never even, everybody else was like, what do you mean besides the obvious? Vanessa's like, hmm, she's eating her pizza. Hmm, what would I change besides the obvious? You know what it is? Because I'm not, my brain goes so fast. I don't know what you said for the first line. Yeah, that was verbal instruction. Like, I don't know what you just said. But I'm going to finish. What would I change? What would I, all I heard was changed. I was like,

hmm, what would I change? That would be mean. I would have said the same thing. Oh my gosh. I'm like, make sure Vanessa is in every video. it'll be hit that or Kristen it'll be hit because Kristen is like out there too both of them because our brains are going a mile a minute true that's it norma Norma is like oh you have to add Norma too because Norma I about died when you go well besides the obvious my nose I was like oh no I'm like oh my gosh that's so freaking funny that was funny and then you said you're obnoxious or something like that. I'm pretty annoying. I'm pretty annoying.

Like Norma played right along into his hands. I know. Everybody else was offended. I'm like, that's perfect. But you caught what he was asking. That's the point. You caught what was asked. Everybody else caught it was offended. And it was like, what?

How dare you? And Norma's like, here you. And that's why I live a very peaceful life. Very peaceful life. I just didn't think, because I think of Jared, like, he's not your day. Yeah, fair. Only think the best. That's freaking funny, though. Okay, so go ahead. The artery in her neck.

So she looked it up on her phone and she's a nurse. No nurse needs to look. It's just, it was silly. All that stuff is silly and they're like, well, she, she, and it doesn't even make sense. So anyways, but today, the breaking news today is that there is a gridlock, headlock all over again. There's a deadlock all over again. So they came out and said they said they said, still are at a deadlock. And the judge was like, I'm going to make this very clear. Blah, blah, blah, blah, all words. But he made it clear yesterday. He's making it clear again. Yeah. I'm not, he's that he's not taking a deadlock. Is that what he's saying? He's saying he's sending them back again. And so in the state of Massachusetts, my mom said that there is a specific law, Alan Rodriguez law, I think. And so you can do it twice. So I think this is the

last time he can send them back. And so all the reporters that are in the, like, are in the, like, court TV stuff. You can't keep sending them back. They've already made up their minds. But I think because, like you said, he's going to cover his basis. This is law. Like, this is what he has in his hand to do. And so this is what has to be done.

But the chance of anything changing is slim to none. So if there's a mistrial, that's where I don't know what it's going to look like. Because there's been, I've heard way too many different things. Like they have, they can do this. They can't do this. They can. Like, so every law is different. I guess the judge has a lot to do with it.

So I guess we'll see. Do you know with a deadlock if they have to tell why there's a deadlock? That's a great question. Because then that would make the judge based on what the deadlock is determine what the next moves are. That's what I would think. Like if the deadlock is because they can't determine whether it's life or 20 years, that's a whole different scenario versus. there's not enough proof or evidence to convict.

So we're not doing it. And then you've got the ones that are like, there is enough evidence and we're going to go and convictor. We just can't determine which one it is because they're saying there's not enough evidence, the other, you know, a certain number of jurors. I bet you there's a bunch that say there's not enough evidence. How much you want to bet?

According to chat, they do not have to tell a judge why they are in deadlock or reveal. Or reveal how the vote is split. I asked specifically for the Lindsay Clancy case. Interesting. Yep. And they're reported to be deadlocked twice. Judge Williams gave them the formal Tui-Tuie Rodriguez instruction, Massachusetts version of the dynamite charge and sent them back to deliberate.

If they come back again and they still cannot reach a unanimity, unanimity. Unanimity. Nope. Unanimity. Unanimy. Unanimy. Unanamity. Unanimity. They will... Unanamity? You can essentially say... After further deliberation, we remain unable to reach a unanimous verdict. Yeah. They do not have to say the split. They don't have to say who is in favor, nothing. Nes-S-L-L-L-L- actually limits how much a judge can probe into deliberating process. In the meantime, the Charlie Kirk case is silent and nobody's even watching or listening to it. Isn't that convenient?

It is. Interesting. So convenient. Nobody cares. Nobody cares. And then we're, and then, okay, you got this case and then you got the other case, which I, you know, I just find it all coincidental that both of these cases, you got this one that's in a deadlock. Mm-hmm. and will probably be resolved tomorrow

because they're going to come back tomorrow and say we're still, we're in the same state. Yep. You got the other case, you got the other, but that's not, that case isn't for the Netflix one.

That one's not for murder though, correct? No. Okay, so that's totally different, but that's super big time right now. Everybody's paying attention to this case too, which is what, Like, it's very curious. Nobody's paying attention to Charlie Kirk.

Nope. I mean, I find that highly suss. It's the same thing when Hillary Clinton was like on trial. I know. Everybody knew about it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

It's on purpose. Oh, on purpose. But, hey, listen, it's way more entertaining. I mean. It's so true. Because, listen, at the end of the day, we know what's going to happen with Charlie Kirk. Right. trial. Right. They they everybody knows it's on purpose but we're not going to get any different

outcome than what we already knew going into it. They're going to make sure of that. Exactly. I mean, Derek Chauvin, are you kidding me? They made sure and then they charged him for two things and you're only allowed to charge him for once. I mean they they, they you can't even do what they did to that man and they did it in spite. I mean, how do you do that? I know. So I'm like Tom, you're not taking me in. Right. I'll go down to the blaze of glory. That's why I'm taking my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my,

my, my, my, my, my, my, my, range class on the 13th. I'll be ready. So, sign up with hope. You're going down. I don't know. He's got, like, he's already got a nice size class or nice size group of us going. Mm-hmm. But intimidation.

That's where I'm intimidated. Yep. I am. Yeah. I know. It is. I'm going to stop me. I mean, like, are you intimidated by a gun?

I have a healthy fear of it, leaning towards fear more than, like, comfortable. But I am not, like, stay away from it. Like, it definitely raises my heart rate. Let me just tell you, I've gotten lots better, but freak. I was a freak with the gun in my hand. I was scared. The gun is not loaded. Doesn't even have anything in the chamber.

and I'm like, it's like exhilarating, but it's like. It's not exhilarating. It's petrified. No, now it is. Now you're here. Now I'm not exhilarated right now. Like, Travis is like, do you feel better? I'm like, not really, but I'm getting there.

I'm so intimidated. And I don't like when I'm intimidated, but it challenges me to like be an overcomer. Because there is not much in life that I'm like, this bothers me. That scares me. crap out of me. So funny. A gun is so intimidating to me. And you've been around it. I grew up with guns. And your husband was a cover 25 years. Yeah, but I had him. I know, but still like they're around you. All the time. People that like aren't around them ever, you know, that are really terrified of them. Oh, yeah. Like, listen, I have seen him like in situations and I'm like,

right. Dude. Yeah. That's hot. That's hot. You're getting lucky tonight. Holy crap. He'd drive by fast in his car. Oh my gosh. The lights on. I'm like, I text him. Hello. Or that's hot. Okay. So like, but I didn't have to do anything. I had him. I know, but they're around you.

But at some point, you got to be responsible for yourself. And he might need me to be his backup. Hey. Oh my goodness. Bonnie and Clyde. He might need me to, you know, what me and my girlfriends used to say when we went to the club? I got your back. Yeah.

He might need me to have his back. You never know. And right now, I'd be on his back. Okay, scared to death. I would not be his back. Yeah, you get that guy. You get up. But at some point, you got to be responsible.

But yeah. Do you? Like, you do nothing. You do nothing. Like, you don't even, you just have your head down when you're walking through the airport. With a leash around your neck. My head is not down.

No, I'm looking around. I'm like, la la la la. Oh. Looking for something to eat. Yeah. Or look at that in that shop right there. I'm smiling at people. I'm saying hello.

I'm being friendly. Going to the duty shop. Yeah. Exactly. I'm living my best life. As you should. As I am not. As I am not.

I am. at the airport. Yeah. So, okay, so back to business because we got a few minutes and then we'll start

talking about intimidation. Okay. Okay, listen people. There is something on Netflix. Now, Mom and Miss Barb, I'm going to speak directly to you because I know you're watching. You're going to use my Netflix account.

I have it all set up for you. Miss Barb is going to love this, I really think. Documentary. You guys, tell them about the start. Not just Ms. Barb and my mom, but everybody watching. What is this documentary?

Because Norma and everybody has watched it but me. I'm watching Andy Griffith as they're watching documentaries. But I am going to watch this because there's something. There's something about it that's like serious biz. Okay, we'll watch it together. Good luck watching it with Norma. She's going to be on the table. It'll be something.

Okay, it's called Death of the Pastor's wife. what it looks like when you on Netflix. So that's like the cover photo. Is that her? That is her. But this is really what she looks like. So I know. Super cute. She was so cute. So cute. And I say was so cute. Yeah. Was. She is no more. Yes. So. So, yeah, it looks a little sketch. This just came out August 26. So this is a brand new series that came out. And, Oh my gosh. I don't even know where to start. I know. Where do you start?

Let's start at the beginning. Micah Miller. That's her name. Not his. His name's J.P. Pastor J.P. I already hate him. I hate that name. I hate him.

Go ahead. So when did she start in 13? She started attending Solid Rock Church at the age of 13. And he was the main pastor at that time. a senior pastor he had taken over from his father. How old was he 23? Young. No, but how old was he a senior pastor? 23?

So if she was 13, he's 15 years older than her. Okay. 32, Norma is talking and you can't hear her. So I will try and translate. So 13 plus 15 is 28. So he was 28. Okay, so he was 28 when they met. When they met. Or did he try and date her at 13? No. Thank you, Lord.

Yeah, she started attending with her family. She's musically gifted. Okay. So she became like the worship leader very quickly, very young. 16 years old. Yeah. 16 years old when she became the worship leader. And then she got married at 18 to her like high school sweetheart.

Okay. Not him. Right. He was married. He was married and had kids. He was married and had four kids. Holy. Yes.

So she married her high school sweetheart at 18. They were madly in love. And then she. And he married them. Yes. Because I remember you saying, I'm now remembering she was married. Yes. I remember you saying he married them.

He married them. And then she got hired on staff. And so she was, she now became his assistant. So she was handling all of his sermon notes, worship. everything. Then she became their nanny. Yes. That's never good.

Then she became her nanny. And when she married her high school sweetheart, they would go on like double dates. And it was very much. And then there's like even footage of them four together. And he's like picking at her and like going like this behind her back. And you can tell like he groomed her completely. Like he literally groomed her.

And then they started They had an affair. He started texting her like inappropriate things at first. It started with texting. It started with him like saying like inappropriate things. But like on the line, not too much, but like on the line of being inappropriate. And that's how it began.

And then eventually they they became intimate. And his wife uncovered the text messages and then divorced him. immediately yeah um and then soon after that he married mica because she also got a divorce around that same time well probably because her husband found out that she had been cheating and he's like yeah yes pretty much yes and so that's i think they they like packaged it to the congregation because when that happened like there was a huge split and i think they they packaged it to the congregation like we're honoring god by getting married like we're did this bad thing.

Yes. But to make it right, to redeem the situation, we will get married. And they ate it up. They were like, num, num, num, num, num, we'll take it. Oh, my gosh. True. Yeah, but here's the thing. Like, the Christian world does this every day.

We're not with adultery. But when you have two people that are, like, messing around and having sex outside of marriage and they decide well we're going to make it right we're going to get married everybody's like i know okay this is great like let's take what's in sin and let's make it holy right okay no you don't do that right but because we have dumbed down christianity so poorly and so badly we think that fixing something that's sinful and making it holy that's that that you know it can't make it all Right. Yeah.

It cancels each other out. No. Absolutely not. No. It's fruit from the poisonous tree. Whatever you started out in sin is fruit from the poisonous tree. You don't elevate it and make it better. And then you put a kid on top of it and have a child.

Yeah, that makes sense. But that's what we do. And parents are like, I'd rather them do it this way than no. How about they abstain from sex and find out if God's called them to be with each other. I mean, once you're married, I mean, people always say to me, well, we didn't do it right. I'm like, well, okay, you can't go back in time.

So now it's gonna work and you have the ability to make that which was not holy because now you are holy. You aren't then, but parents, like, if it's not done, if the deed's not done, don't encourage marriage to try and make sin okay. Yeah, true. If it's already done, it's done.

But it's just crazy. So go ahead. Okay. I want to hear it. So now they're married and they're trying to make it right. Oh, wait. Soon after, like two weeks after, maybe, I don't know, I can't remember the timeline. But he wanted her to have breast implants.

Yes. Like soon after their wedding. Yes. And so she went and got breast implants. When that happened, he claims that she woke up with, like, bipolar. And the plastic surgeon is the one that diagnosed it. Is the plastic surgeon her friend, his friend? Great question.

I don't know. We don't have that information. Probably. That's interesting. Probably a great friend. So at that point, they put her on like psych meds. And he was like, she's bipolar. That's what it is.

She needs to be medicated. Like he was all for it. Yes. So that was a start like almost immediately from their, their time of the wedding. Like he started like painting the picture that she was not, well mentally. Did he do this with the previous wife? We don't know.

I don't think so. Interesting. Go ahead. Nobody's going to want to watch the Netflix thing. No, there's so much more. There's so much. We're going to cover such a short period of time. I'm watching it.

Norma's saying you're going to want to see the footage. There's a lot of footage. There's a lot of footage. And apparently they missed a lot too because there's some stuff. Like he ran over his girlfriend in high school and got in trouble. Like this guy is not. It got expunged. It got expunged.

He's like, he's out. That's why I say Norman was like, yes. Let him be a pastor. Great question. Well, because his dad gave him the church. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Like, he's a freak too.

Mm-hmm. So, yeah, a lot of his sermons are based around, like, how a woman needs to take care of her man. And if they don't, then their husband is going to cheat on them and go find other people and all this stuff. And it was like, what was it? The devil will put things out. They'll send that, and if you're not doing it, God's not just going to send angels to take care of things. Like, so bizarre, so crazy. And it was, and it always seemed like it was when he was not happy with her.

But we found out that they were intimate four to five times a day. So it's not like she was not doing what, like her, like, whatever, but that he was like, obviously had issues. And that even said, like some of her friends said that she would say that she's, in pain and like all kinds of things. So obviously it was very abusive. Um, so it, it ends up being that she's on all these psych meds and she's not doing good. And, um, she ends up getting like a tattoo of him on her side. Um, like it just, it gets really weird very, very quickly. Um, so then at some point, I forget like what happens that kind of brings them to their, um, marriage. And, ending. But at some point, they, in November 2020, J.P. starts patterns of cyber, cyberstocking and

harassing Micah. And so I think this, at this point, Micah's like realizing like, I need, like, I need to get away. Nobody's helping her. At this point, she was also like confiding in different like friends. Yes. Yes. And her friends were kind of like, this is not okay. Right. And I think that's when she started to wake up a little bit about what was happening. And I think maybe stopped taking our meds or something because he kept telling her family, like she's not taking her meds, she's not okay, she has to be on our meds. And he was constantly advocating for this medication. He's a pastor.

And he was done and knows by those pastors will tell you to take meds. Like, there's some in the area that are on them themselves and encourage people to do it. I mean, it's just the way it is. Yeah. Instead of letting God take care of. I just don't get it. And I'm not telling people who are on them to get off of them, but God is more than enough. I've seen it.

I've seen so many of our women that have gotten off them. So 100%. So, yeah. So then, oh my gosh. Then she, like, finds this older woman that takes her in. And that's the picture that she was at this one. So she's staying with this older woman. And so this is the camera footage of her coming and going a lot of the times.

It looks like an apartment. And yes. And so she was safe there, staying there. And he was, like, freaking out, sending her text messages, like, all these things. Like, just come back. Just come back. And then he's like, you're a terrible wife. Like, just like typically, typical narcissist, like, psycho behavior.

He's on the needs on medication. He definitely needed to be on medication. But in the meantime, somewhere around there, we find out there's an affair going on with Susie, Susie Summers, something like that. Susie. Which is J.P.'s sidepiece. The new side piece. And she is married to a man who's a quadriplegic. And he's in a wheelchair. And so she wants to bring her husband to this church. And so he comes and she loves it. And he's like, I don't know. I don't feel. He's like, I don't feel good about this pastor. And she's like, no, no, it's so good. So they keep going. And then eventually he's like, I don't want to go anymore. So then all of a sudden, And then there's a night.

Oh, go ahead. And then she starts coming alone and getting plugged in and ignoring her now, her then husband. Yes. To the point where he was like, like what the heck woman? Like he's she's not taking, like he relied heavily on her. Yeah. Of course. Right.

He was quadriplegia. Right. So he's like she's not bathing him anymore. Like literally like she starts neglecting him. So then there's a 911 call. And he was. found at the bottom of a pool, the community pool. Yes, because he accidentally fell in.

Before they call 911, Susie called JP and Micah, and they were first on the scene. Yep. Instead of the cops. And he performs his funeral. And he had his funeral at crosspoint. And so the family of this husband, because I can't remember his name, they, like he had mentioned, I don't know about this. I don't feel good about this guy. So the guy that he didn't like is performing his funeral.

His family must have been beside themselves. Yes. And so they're part of the interview process of the Netflix series. So you get to hear their perspective. Oh, I will be hearing their perspective. Yes, you will. Yeah. You can bet your bottom dollar on this one.

So I'm pretty sure Micah knows that she's cheating on him, right? With Susie. Yes. Okay, she found out. So Susie's like there's video footage, obviously, of like them all hanging out before from like the live stream. And you can see Susie and Micah like passing each other. And at this time, like, Micah knows. And she's on the worship team.

We found out that she was forced to take testosterone to try to keep up with his sex drive. And it started messing with her voice because she's a worship leader. So then that started messing her up and she's on all these medicines. So do you remember what led to the divorce? Or what led to like Micah just filed for it. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. You can't hear.

Yeah, there was, oh, I think, didn't she write a letter? She was like, if you do any one of these things, I'm gone. Yes. And then he ended up, he ended up doing one of the things on her list. Okay. And that was like her way of freeing herself. Right. Yes.

Okay, the cheating. Yes. And so, Mike, a file for divorce. somehow she got committed into the mental hospital and he grabbed her laptop and phone because they were separated but not divorced and then he started posting on social media as her and even posted like a nude picture of her on social media

yes oh my word he posted that photo it was a photo of her topless and because she sent it to him first, but he saved it as well. Right. He said that after confronting her and she said, get away from me. You have a restraining order. He goes, those photos will be out in a couple hours.

And he actually did put the photo out in a couple hours. It was disgusting. What? Yeah. People are sick, man. Yeah. And it's all recorded. All of it.

I'm like, what are you thinking? All of it. People aren't thinking. They're not thinking. So at some point, okay, it's 2020. Michael filed for divorce. In February 2024, J.P. filed for separation from Micah.

So the case was dismissed when she filed for divorce. Can't remember that I'm just looking at this timeline. And then in April 2024, there was records reportedly showing Micah contacted law enforcement repeatedly regarding issues involving JP, reporting based on those records that she had contacted the law enforcement at least 14 times between February 7th and April 15. So then in April 15th, she separated from him, or Micah filed for separation. April 23rd, a hearing was scheduled for June 5th. April 25th, according to the affidavit for Micah's sister, JP was served with the divorce papers two days later, two days before Micah had just died. So on April 27th, Micah died. So, and then the timeline was that she entered, Micah was recorded leaving her Myrtle Beach residence. And then about an hour later, she entered a pawn shop. And then, and then, And she purchased a firearms, left with a firearms, which a lot of the people, like her brothers and sisters, thought that she was buying it to protect herself because she was stocking.

Right. And then she was captured traveling down Highway 501, right an hour later. 30 minutes later, she was at a convenience store. And then about seven minutes later, she was purchasing gas and a drink. And then she drove to North Carolina River State Park. Why would you get gas if you're going to kill yourself? Why would you grab a snack if you're going to kill yourself? going to kill yourself.

Yeah. One last meal? One last meal. But it was a good one. She asked the dispatcher. I'm not just gas station. So not as saying the state park that she went to. So far away.

So far away from where she actually lived. It was about, so she left and got gas an hour at 135 p.m. And then at 254 she called 911. The 911 call. Yes. You can, they say you can hear a person with her. Yes. And she only called 911 to let them know that, hey, I'm parked here.

I'm about to kill myself and I want my family to know where my body is. But they can hear somebody else too. Yeah. And they can't even tell if it's her voice. So why did she originally go to the park, the national park? Do we know why she went there? No. They say that she was lured in somehow.

Yeah. No, I don't know why. So anyway, so then she kills herself. Okay, so J.P finds out. JP starts texting everybody. Yep. To tell everybody that she killed herself. All these people that hate him.

She's a good job. You were supposed to give her medication. This is your fault. Blaming them that she killed herself. So that's Saturday nights. That's a nice cover story. Yeah. Saturday night, right?

She kills herself Saturday at whatever time that was. She calls that 3 o'clock p.m. The next morning, Sunday, he shows up at church. They have worship. He gets up on stage. gives his whole sermon, which I'm pretty sure was at the movie. Some crazy sermon. Associated Related Church's sermon.

Something about movies, something crazy. And he was going on and on. And then right at the end, he goes, okay, I'm going to make this announcement. When I do, please do not hang out and talk. If you want, you can go outside of, but do not talk in here. Please just leave and then don't say anything else. My wife killed herself. She's dead.

And everybody's like, what? Like it was the most bizarre thing in the entire world. And he's like, okay, Pastor Blah, blah, blah, it's going to pray you guys out and just walks off stage. An interviewer once asked him, why did you preach the next day? Yeah. And he said it was the first thing I knew to do, just to get up and go to work. Yep. Yes.

What? No comment. Are you kidding me? And you see like people like look at each other in the audience because again, this is live streamed. And they're like hugging each other. What? Is this real? Like, everybody's so in shock. Right.

But he just preached a whole sermon. But he had also been grooming his congregation, too, because they had been separated. Yes. True, true, true. True. True. True. True.

She had been sharing, like, be praying for my wife. You know, she's bipolar. She's not taking her medicine. She's having episodes. So he had been grooming his congregation already. Very true. That's, yeah, that's the one I think that's why I said it was at the movies. It's summer playlist.

Oh, my gosh. It's summer play. If they do a parody on the song. So. Okay, you can't hear what she's saying, but she's saying that, because all you can see is a sitting here and doing nothing. What she's saying is that this pastor, J.P. Would take songs, secular songs, and rewrite them and make them Christian.

So that morning is what they did. But that's the same thing they do with the summer playlist, sermon series. And so in the summer you'll have where they'll do at the movies, most churches will do like at the movies, which is they'll take a movie and they'll make it and they'll twist it to be kind of like a Christian lesson. Well, summer playlist is where they take Christian songs. Like some of the old times they'll take even a movie and they'll do it. Like they did a Star is Born with Lady Gaga and what's that?

guy's name uh bradley cooper they when a star was born a movie came out they took that there's lots of churches local churches but someone in particular that i'm thinking of in their sermon series that summer they did um they did the summer playlist and they did the song but they didn't change the words so they had a guy and a girl from their worship team go up and sing the song to that movie, the star is born, and they sang that song. Like, what are you, like, you're degradating the very platform and the stage that is holy,

like with a song like that. Like, what are we thinking? What are we doing? What we're doing is, is we're dumbing down the gospel, and we're making everybody comfortable in the lifestyles that they're living, which goes back to what we were talking about before, saying like, at least when they got married,

if they had an affair, they're making it right by getting married. Right. I know. That's how that happens. It is. Yeah. It is.

It's just, it's sickening. It's perverse, guys. That's really what it is. It's perverting the gospel. Yep. So he tells his whole congregation, you're going to have to watch this because I'm watching it too, but they tell us, like this is what,

He's on trial right now. Next month. It keeps getting postponed, but most likely October 6th, I think, or fourth. Something like that. Okay, so it was supposed to be happening relatively soon, which was going to be, I think, the next thing to keep everybody. That's what everybody's saying. Distracted?

Distracted. Yeah. Was this case right here, which could lead into a murder case. Yeah. Because it's highly sus too. Right, because it's on everybody's radar now. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Which you should be. I mean, the husband being found in the bottom of a pool. I know. That's not good. And then you got her. And then you marry her? And then so now.

And then they got married a year after her death. He married this girl? He married her. Susie. Susie got married. And now they started a new church. They are now in Myrtle Beach. Yeah.

You know what? You know, people think I'm crazy for saying wait to get married to you. at least know the person one year. I'm crazy to say that. What? They did know each other. No, I'm just saying. But she's nuts for marrying him because she knows.

They're all nuts. They're all nuts. They're all nuts. They're all just saying. This is cult behavior. This is 100%. They're all brainwashed. 100%.

There's people still going to this church people. I know. Uh-huh. And that church was full. I mean, it was a smaller church, but it was full the day he preached and then told them she all died. Mm-hmm. I keep rolling.

And Micah stayed longer than she probably wanted to because she did not want to see the church fall apart. Mm-hmm. Because it kept falling apart every time you do something. Yeah, literally. Yeah, but. I know. But when you're brainwashed, you just do crazy things. And they're crazy.

I can see staying because God's not released you. but when your husband's having affairs and I mean that does it guys he started grooming her I'm pretty sure from the age of 13 he shouldn't be in the pulpit just simply because of affairs yeah like he like takes time off and go get yourself yourself restored like he's still acting like he's like well you know all these interviews well here's my thing and this is one thing that you left out was when you're paying the homeless to come in and have sex with your wife so you're you can watch. Okay, she needed to say, let the church fall apart.

I know. Okay, that's one thing to say for it to be like that versus like. Insane. I don't even know. Oh, and he apologized. He wrote out an apology, almost like a confession letter. And he wrote out all the things that he was sorry for. And that was in there.

To the congregation or to her? No, to her. Trying to win her back. So sick. Yeah. It's sick. It is sick. People like, I'm just, if you're, you know, what people live and endure in is there's differing degrees of stuff, right?

But when it becomes abuse as far as, like, that's sexual abuse. And, you know, he's causing you to commit adultery and then, like, the whole thing. Like, that's, it's one. thing if you are married to somebody who like isn't nice and isn't a nice person. I don't know because like even like I mean because like what I live with is like when Tom says he's not nice. Like if he's bothered about something, he'll always be like, listen, just so you know, this isn't you.

But I am not like I'm in a bad mood right now. But it has nothing to do with you. I just, I'm going to be real quiet. and either you don't have to be around me or you can, but just no, I'm going to be quiet. Okay. That's not the, that's not, okay, that's not what some people live with with people who are in bad moods. Okay. Some people live with people who literally take it out and yell at them and are inclined to them.

And that's no, that's no cause for divorce. But I'm just saying, like, people live in differing degrees of having to deal with somebody who, you know, have, has a, difficult marriage. But that guys, like that's a whole new level. And to put it under like Christianity and how you can't walk away from it, you're nuts. But that is intimidation, which is what we were supposed to talk about. What we're supposed to talk about. But we're not. Because at that point, you are, you're so intimidated. And who's going to believe you? Is anybody even going to believe you? I wouldn't care. I know. You bring home a homeless man. I know. No, I know. Hope. I know. I'm out. But it doesn't start with a homeless.

man. It starts with these little things. And you wouldn't even let it get to that. It starts with five times a day. And that ain't happening either. True. Sorry. But that ain't happening either. Yeah. Right. And so that's what I'm saying. Like you hope wouldn't let it get to the first degree, second degree. And she's at like the 23rd, 24th. Now at what point like you do almost lose hope? Like what do I even do at this point? You know, where do I like, who do I turn to? So she did start turning to people. And thankfully she had some decent people because they were like telling her like this is not good like this they yeah but I mean there's people that literally deal with this I mean I we have people who go to our church and they have very difficult marriages okay and I and I understand that I get it

and some of them deal with it even further than just somebody being in a bad mood yeah oh yeah but know the balance of that right and know your worst Right. Because if you don't know your worth, that person's not going to treat you like you're worthy. And sometimes that's the most thing you can do for that person is show them that you know your worth and you're not putting up with it. True. Because then it changes. It sometimes like just clicks.

And that person's like, wait a minute. Yes. Let me take a step back here. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe she's so. Go ahead. Maybe she was so intimidated that she kept silent.

That's, I think that happens a lot. Tracy said. But that is, well, a lot of people get treated poorly. Even being married to somebody who wants to yell and scream and take out their frustration, women do it and men do it. It's not, listen, I have seen women be so degrading and so nasty to their husband. It goes both ways, right? but if somebody would just stand up and say, you're not talking to me like that.

I don't know who you think you are. But not today and not me. And I wonder if he used the Bible as a weapon against her. You need to submit. He did. That is your role. And he said it from the stage. She knew her Bible, which is get in your word,

then you would be like, that's not what it says. That's not what it means. And so you're distorted and you need to read the Bible. She's also being drugged. So. Yeah, I know. But it all starts again from sin. It does.

It does. And we just don't teach, we just don't preach and we don't teach holiness like it needs to be. And that's how you get in these situations is when God is not the center and holiness is not number one. Right. Right. Which how can holiness not be number one? Like be holy as he is holy. Because it's about the pulpit.

It's about pride. It's about titles. It just gets yucky in those churches. Yeah, I just don't. I'm not saying like when I say, a lot of times if you say people need to be holy and things like that, people automatically say, I don't want to be under the law. I don't. Listen, I'm not perfect and I'll be the first one to say, listen, I like, I fall short. I literally had to ask for forgiveness.

I was like, Lord, I asked for forgive this because yesterday I failed and I had to literally go before the Lord and repent. Okay. I don't live with that anymore and I move on. But you know if you're doing wrong and you know if you're doing right. Being holy means fixing what is wrong and not doing it again. It's not hard. It's not living under the law. I don't live with any condemnation or guilt about what I how stupid I was yesterday.

yesterday. I mean, it is what it is. But I don't want to have any blemishes. I don't like, and I'm sure there's stuff that I do that I don't even realize I do sometimes because, you know, we're idiots sometimes. But the things that you do know and God convicts you on, you need to fix. And it feels good. Like, then you're like fresh start with the Lord. You put the things behind you. You're going to make better attempts to not do that because you felt like crap when you did it. It just, it feels good when you do that. But no, but what people want to do is sweep it under the rug all under the guise of grace. And that just continues to perpetuate my biggest pet peeve. Yes. I hate that. Yeah. I'd rather duke it out. And I don't even like conflict,

but I'd rather duke it out, deal with it, then sweep something under the rug. Yeah. I would. I'm like, that's very dangerous. It's not good. And sweeping things under the rug. It's going to circle back. It always does. It's going to circle back. If you don't do it now, you're going to do it six months from now. Right. Well, here's the thing. Usually, when you're sweeping things under the rug, it's because of pride because you don't want to say, I'm sorry about something. Or you want to be dishonest about it so nobody knows the truth about it.

That's nine times out of ten when you're sweeping things under the rug is because there's some form of dishonesty. And you just don't want it to be found out. Yeah. That, like, true. And even in those moments, you may not say, you may not go, okay, I'm going to expose my lie or my aversion, isn't that word, aversion? Yeah. Of the truth.

Of course. If I ever want approval of anything in the English language, I'm going to you. You don't know the difference. But if you don't like want to really come clean on it, I do understand that and you do get it. And sometimes it's best. Sometimes it's best to just, depending on what it is. Because like not everybody wants to like have you, it becomes OCD, right?

Everybody, I have to tell you this. I have to tell you that. I'm like, sometimes it's best for you not to do it because of your nature. So you do go before the Lord and you ask the Lord to forgive you. And then you say, and this is what I have done. I have done this before. Like, if I made a mistake and I was dishonest with somebody about it, I always say to the Lord. Okay, Lord, if it comes back around, if this topic comes back around, then I'm going to confess.

I am going to talk about this and I am going to expose the truth to it. But if it doesn't come back around, then you need to understand. I understand how wrong I was. I know I send against you. I know I send against them. It was dishonest or whatever. And I am not doing that again. Okay.

That's in my way of thought, now do I do that all the time? No, because sometimes I know that I am convicted to go and tell the truth and expose the wrong that I did and the dishonesty that I did. But it becomes a way of people become under this. Like it's not even, sometimes it's OCD for them, but it becomes so, they're so guilt-ridden and they're like, they're compelled. And then Satan has them on that. Do you know what I'm saying? 100% know what I'm saying.

And that's not good either. No, it's not. So you got to like, there's a balance to everything and know that God knows your heart. So even if you don't tell the other person the truth about the situation, God knows that you would, and if it happens that you can, you will. And you go on about your life, but you live free. Because a lot of people don't live free. There is a balance in everything. I know. Yep. And learn to walk in it, but learn to be a person that chases after holiness. Yeah, for sure. Because a lot of times it's chasing after grace. What can I get away with? Right. Right. And still go to

heaven. Yeah. Like, what's the line? How close can I get? Can I? Here's the line. And I'm going to be right here. And every now and then, if I can, I'm going to go right here. And then jump back over. Without ever failing conviction compelled to repent and just sweeping it out of the rug. It's dangerous. It is. So, all right, we will hit intimidation on Friday because a lot of us walk in things that were intimidated by. I, you know, in my, life, I've been intimidated by people, things like guns. I mean, a fear of speaking publicly, very intimidated by it. And if you allow intimidation to rule you, you will accomplish nothing. True. You will allow people to rule your life. You will not overcome things that are

necessary so that you become stronger. Like if I, I go, I go. I go. to the gun things. Like people periodically come. There's always like some that come. I go to every single one of them. I don't want to go to every single one of them. But I know I have to go to every single one of them to overcome what I feel. Because what I feel isn't really real.

I need to really mentally take captive of all those fearful thoughts and understand that if I understand the gun, then I can have control over a situation and I can think it through clearly and I can allow nothing to have authority over me. I do not want one thing or one person to have authority over my life except for the Lord. That's it. But when you face these things, you have to not make excuses because it would be really easy to say, I got Tom. He'll protect me and not face the fact that I'm afraid of guns. Right, right, right. But that doesn't help me.

It would be very comfortable, though. Yeah. Very comfortable, but it doesn't help me. And then the next thing I face, I could do the same thing with. And I don't do that in life. If something really challenges me, then I face the challenge. I love that, I love that T-shirt that I used to wear all the way. It says a strong woman looks at a challenge and she gives it a wink.

and I don't ever want something to get the best of me. I just want to look at it, wink at it, and take it on. And that's the best way to go. So Friday, intimidation. But I love today. That was fun. That's great. Because we hardly ever do things like today.

There's a lot going on right now. Lots. Lots of talk about. We're very, very busy. And the jury is coming back. So right now. Right now. right now.

No way. They just opened up the court. Deadlock. Yeah. They ain't playing. Grid lock. They're dead. They're going to conclude for the day, but we'll see what they say.

It's deadlock. Yeah. I agree. All right, peeps. We might have something out for you on Friday, but we're not going to take over the podcast with that. We'll give you a snippet, and then we'll move into intimidation. Yeah. Yep.

All right. See you. Friday. Peace out.