The Hope Hotline - When Shame Becomes Your identity

Episode Date: May 29, 2026

The Hope Hotline | S04-E32 | 05-29-2026

to the whole potline. Welcome, everybody, to the whole potline. Yeah. It's a great day. It's a happy day. It's a Friday. It is. Friday.

I know. Oh my gosh. You know, you would think that having Monday off would make me so excited for Friday. Yeah. But I am. Because you know what I did on Monday? What? Tell us.

Pretty much nothing. What did you do? Nothing. Nothing. Nothing. I did something in the morning. I worked in the morning, but after that, I was off. Good for you.

I'm actually, like, thinking tomorrow, I have a couple things that I have to do, and the rest of the day, I'm doing nothing. I even put a bathing suit on people. Wow. What? You had shorts on, like, three weeks ago, and now you're wearing a bathing suit? That is. Well, it's at my house, so, hello. But I was out by the pool.

Wow. I didn't go in it, but I was out by it. That is special. It is pretty impressive. I'm impressed. I went to the wet fest or summer. What was that thing called summer or summer bash? Summer bash.

I was in shorts then too. Wow. I'm shocked. I know. My legs are bad, but they're not as bad. It's a new season. It is. So, three years later.

What makes them so bad? What? Cellulate. Cellulate, girl. Disgusting. I got it. My arms were full of cellulite. My legs are full.

Not so much anymore. That's it. Three years later. Exactly. Three years later. Commitment and consistency pays off in everything. It really does. In the spiritual realm.

Everything. And the worldly realm. Everything. It's almost like it's biblical. Almost. As if God told us to do it. Yeah. I don't know.

Yeah. Pays off people. It does. I mean, I'm not saying my legs look like they were when I was in my 20s. But they definitely look like they did after I had children. Talking about legs. I found a spider vein.

I've had plenty of this. Sorry. So I looked into a vein specialist. For one spider vein? Yes. Isn't that another way? And they like inject something. I know.

It's a saline into your legs to make them. And it clears it up. Mm-hmm. It's like a tattoo, if you will, inside your vein. I think I'm going to do it. Wait, what do you mean? For one, spider vein? It's because it will grow into a varicose vein.

No, it will not. I have them on my thighs. Trust me. I need to understand that. So they put saline into the vein. And then it turns it not blue. And it clears it up somehow. Is it fixing it or is it just a superficial?

No, I think it fixes it. It does fix it. Oh. Like, varicose veins are ones that protrude. That's not what's going to happen. You need to know. I'll show you my vein and then you let me know. Yes, I will.

I will. I stayed at a holiday inexpress last night. You're a doctor right now. You're a professional. I'm a pro. I am a physician at this very moment. A varicose vein specialist. I was at the cardiovascular doctor yesterday.

Oh. Or not for me. For somebody else. But that sounds like a professional. And I did read a poster on the board talking about varicose veins. She's a professional. You better listen to.

There are different kinds. And yours is easy peasy, baby. Okay. You haven't even seen it yet. No, but you should have seen what I saw on that poster. Oh, I can only imagine. Lumpy bumpies, scary, scary, scary. Like a spider vein is flat.

There's no, there's no, like, structural indentation. Do you want to see my vein right now? Sure. The doctor is in. We need to get to the bottom of this because. just crossing your legs too much. What if it gets worse? Oh, really?

Oh, that's not a varicose. I mean, that's not a, well, one of them, you might need to get looked at. That's why she's being quiet the whole time. Okay, that's not what I got. That could grow into something. You might have a problem. Hope was certain until she wasn't. certain. That's not a spider. That is a varicose. Oh, gosh. Okay. Is there a way we can do it yourself at home?

That is going to need more than saline is not going to solve that problem. My professional is my professional opinion is he a doctor. Does it look like the one on the map on the poster? Yes. Not as bad. Okay. Okay. I feel validated. But it could evolve into something else. I'd pray that sucker away. Oh my gosh. Holy macaw. You're welcome. Here we are. I'll show you mine. Okay. And then you're going to see the difference. It's only fair that you show me. I have to pull by my pants for that. So we're going to do that later.

Oh, my gosh. That's something, girl. That's crazy. It's not bad. It's not dangerous. I think it is from crossing my legs. Yeah. Oh, I do all the time.

It's always. Even my spider. And it's, listen, I'm not saying like, like hereditary and stuff like that. I don't believe in that. But it is. You don't believe in that stuff, but it is. It's definitely Friday. It's just like stretch marks.

Stretch marks. Not hereditary. Even though I don't believe in it. Even though I don't believe in it. Don't believe in them. If you believe in it, it is. It's true. If you don't, it's not.

Power of your imagination. Oh, my gosh. So I didn't know not to believe in it. That's how come it happened to me. Oh, my gosh. New insecurity. We're literally. Now I'm like, do I have any?

Oh, my gosh. That is flipping funny. Wow. Thanks, Vanessa. We're talking about shame today. Do you have any shame? And today's topic is shame. Shame.

We put a new level of shame. It really is shame. It really is shame. Don't be looking at my legs on Sunday, I'm not going to shame you. Please. Do not ask me to show you either. Because I won't.

I'll show you mine and show me yours. Not happening. Oh, my. Goodness gracious alive. Courtney's like, how do we move on from here? We're not. I don't know if we will. Oh, my gosh.

What did you say? I don't know if we will be able to. Courtney. It's not happening, girl. Mom's laughing in the chat. She loves it. Oh, goodness gracious alive. Okay.

Oh, man. Okay. I don't know what we were talking about, but why don't you give us your announcements. Okay, I will. And then we'll move on from there. Thank you, Vanessa, for the good laugh at your expense. You're welcome. I appreciate you.

app workout in. Thank you. I appreciate you. My goodness. If you're watching on Facebook, YouTube or Rumble, say hello in the chat. We love to hear from you if you were laughing along with us. Awesome. And if you weren't, okay. If you're not, you have no sense of you. Yeah, exactly. You might not like us. You might want to move along. Yeah. But yeah, we love to see you guys on here. So just make sure you say hello. You know, we see more little eyeballs watching than we see in the chat. So if you just want to say hi, you don't have to. you don't have to hang out long in the chat, but just say hi, so we know you're there. And again, that's Facebook, YouTube, and Rumble.

And then later on, we'll have the audio podcast available as soon as I can download it and upload it and upload it. And then just for an FYI, June 3rd, we will not be here, which is next week. Believe it or not, we are moving out of May and into June. Can you believe it? Hot dog. Can't believe it. And then right after that, Natalie will be here.

So she'll be back June 12th. So if you have questions. this is the time to send them in. Let me know and I'll get it on the little calendar or a little agenda for her, but it will be June 12th. And if you send it on June 12th, I can't promise anything, but I will try my best to get to them. So if you want to ask during the podcast as well,

we usually can try to get to them there. Just a reminder, there is no podcast in July. We're on our summer schedule. We will be returning August 7th just in time for my women's conference. Where did that one go? See, isn't in here? That one? Nope.

Okay. Well, let me see if I can find it. But we have our women's conference. coming up. Oh, we've even, we've even posted a save the day yet. That's coming up. Oh, yeah. That's coming up in June, too. So stay tuned for Dominion. So we'll get, we'll get a little picture up. And then tonight, Pastor Tom is live on TikTok and on Instagram. So he has his Bible study. It's about an hour. So he is alive. So you can chat back. And if you have specific questions, Instagram is more foundation church friendly. And TikTok is the

the whole world. So it's an interesting to switch back and forth. I did last week. I was going back and forth between the chats and it was funny. It's just two totally different audiences, which makes things fun. Pastor Tom loves that stuff. So it's right up his alley. But he's had some really, really great topics and you can't see them unless you're watching live. So you better hop on. It's an hour of your time and they are excellent. Very, very, very good topics. And I think that's all we got for today. Oh, do me a favor. Yeah.

I was just looking at Instagram. You did the Foundation Church drop. Yes, we officially have, I got it right here. We officially have our first drop. What is a drop? It is a special little puck. If you look right at the bottom, and it says Foundation Church and that logo right in the middle of the lion,

you will find it. It is almost like a coaster, you would think. Like you'd put it in a car, like those little like kind of like rubbery things. And so on the back it'll say what to do with it. So you're going to find it. Then you snap a picture when you find it. and then you're going to tag us, and then you are going to win some cash money.

So these are all of the things that you have to do. These are the hints. And it is already live. It went live at 3 o'clock. So there was an email sent and then on Instagram and Facebook, and we need you guys to tag us on Instagram so we can easily find you. And then when you come on Sunday, come find me, and I will reward you for your find. Yes.

So that picture is a great hint. Yes, it is. Of where that puck. Yes. Well, it's not exactly where the puck is. No. But the area in which the puck is. Yeah.

That's a great clue right there. It is. And read all the hints. Read them all. And think in your brain. Like, close your mind and ask the Holy Spirit. It's cash money, people. We'll guide you.

Cash money. And it ain't, it is pretty good. Do I tell how many? I would be happy with it. Do you want to tell how much? Yeah, yeah. Go ahead. $200.

Cash. Cold hard cash. Yeah. Like the real stuff. Like the stuff when they're like, oh, we're cashless society, not foundation church. I could use that money. Nope. Towards the vein specialist.

Oh, you're sitting here so you cannot. But at 5 o'clock, we have a youth drop. Oh, yeah. That one's coming up. So it's going to be posted the same way. So you'll have to be watching on social media. Do we want to tell the? city that it's going to be in just to give a little hint.

We do. We do. And then people can be ready to know where they're going to go. Yes. What's the city? It's in Northport. Ooh. And the thing is, is every single week, they're in a different location.

Different city. Yeah. Surrounding cities. So if you lived in Englewood, right, there will be one in Englewood. Yeah. If you live in Northport, Port Charlotte, Pantagorda. That's it, right? Yeah.

So, be watching. Cash money. Cash price. Mom said she's flying down right now. Mine don't blame you. Hey, listen, $200 is like a night out with your family? Absolutely. To go out to dinner and have a fun night free for the summer.

Oh my gosh, that is true. And the gas price is going down. Yeah, they are. Not much, but it is. We'll see how long. I know. It's ridiculous. But it is right now.

Praise you the Lord. But seriously, like, I was telling a youth. person today. I was like, if you go and hunt for it, you and your friends can go out for like dinner or go get ice cream or whatever. And you can share the wealth if all of you go and hunt together. Yeah. You can share the wealth. Yeah. True. So true. And it's a free night. Like, but it's a great way to start the summer off. So I know. And you know, that's what foundation church is all about. It is. People having fun. We like having fun. We do. We're so silly. Singles, adults, married, families.

It's not meant for just families. It's meant for, hey, listen, I know, like, my mom's roommate. Like, she'd be out there hunting. Like, she should be out there hunting right now. She loves to shop. Oh, yeah. See? Like, you know, you can be single and hunt and find that puck and have fun.

Mm-hmm. Go with your friends. Absolutely. Split the money. Absolutely. I mean, I would. if I wasn't hiding them. If I wasn't hiding them, I would.

Yeah. So. I know. Listen. We got some people guessing where it's on, on Facebook or on Instagram. Don't guess. Go find. I know.

But put us in the car with you. Yes. So as you're looking, have us with you. Yeah. Yeah. Go with us. Or us go with you. Go.

You go with you. We go with you. Absolutely. That's what we're going to say. Okay. All. All right. All right.

Good stuff. Good stuff. Lots of fun. Oh, you didn't. What time is the, what time does the youth one drop? Five o'clock. Five o'clock. Okay.

I was going to say if it was four, you could do it. But it's not going to happen, people. It's going to be a five. No, and you know it really can't happen anyway before then? Mm-hmm. Because it's too hard. Okay. It's too hard for us because we got to put that puck out before other people start

finding it. Right. Other people can find the puck. and claim the prize besides foundation church people right so we're trying to drop them just before right the podcast and just after so there you go there you go that's why five doing it at four ain't going to work all right shame as we shamed Vanessa how many of us have or are currently walking in shame you know oh my gosh seriously like um I made a list I had Grock make not Grock I made chat GPT make me a list of why people walk in shame or have shame.

It's a long list, first of all, and boy, did I relate to several of them. I was like, oh my gosh, this is true. It's like a list of 20 items. And some of them I thought to myself when I read, I was like, who would have thought somebody would be feeling shame over that? And then I thought to myself, I know people. who have like even though I wouldn't right like it like everybody affects everybody differently and I personally have walked in shame as a Christian and before I got my

life back with God and then when I was younger and I you know there's a difference between shame guilt and conviction yes 100% yeah definitely when you become a new creature in Christ when you get saved All shame is gone. All condemnation is gone. There's conviction now that takes its place, which is a sweet scent from the Holy Spirit. When he gives you conviction,

that's him like sweetly saying, no, no, no. And sometimes if you're hardheaded like me, the conviction gets harder and harder and harder. And it's not so sweet. It's like, yeah. Yeah. And I mean, I'm hardheaded. so but shame is what a lot of believers I think walk in and it's very very dangerous right because it

changes you as a person it changes you as a believer I agree and you can't become all Christ has called you to be that's like when people are always saying what's your identity well shame can be one of the things you identify as right and it keeps you stuck it does and it makes you do a lot of things. Like one of the things that I learned shame can do is make you controlling, which, hello, I never thought about how shame controlled makes a person be controlling of their situations. Yeah, that makes sense. Definitely. Because you're afraid of rejection. Right. I mean, there are, like, you open that door and you realize what, how shame can, how shame, uh, changes a person's personality, livelihood, not financially, like how they live.

I mean, it's crazy what shame can do. I know part of it because I, I mean, have you not shame, like my past, I lived with shame from my past until I realized that the door, the Lord doesn't even see it. It's as far as the east is to the west. Why am I still carrying it? if every time I bring it up to him he's like I have no idea what you're talking about then why am I still carrying it but have you guys like you're a you're a good girl Vanessa so like was your shame like there is shame still but a different way right yeah absolutely for me

there were a lot of years where I was just idle and like lukewarm at best that's one of the things at list I would have never thought that there's there yeah totally their shame associated with that because I'm like I could have done more if I I wasn't so stuck. But listen, when Chat GPT listed that as a believers, I was like, but I do, I never with, but Tom talks about that. Now, he doesn't walk in shame. But Tom, clearly, I could see how somebody would walk in shame with that, though.

But I never would have, I don't know. Yeah. Tracy? Yeah, definitely. I think. Because you're wild like me for a short period of time, but not as wild as me. Yeah. Yeah.

And even just like going through a divorce. too. That's one of the ones on the list. Yeah, that's like another one where I had to like consciously say like the divorce is something that happened to me. I'm not like because I like, well, it wasn't because you wanted it either. Right, right. Exactly. But still like you're a divorcee. Like you're going through like all these things that divorce people go through and it just feels yucky. Like it's just like I, first of all, I didn't want it, but I had to. And my parents didn't get divorced. My grandparents, like it wasn't a thing that like nobody in my family got divorced. Right. So then that feels yucky. And you're just like, so I had. So I had.

to like just make sure that that wasn't an identity of mine. It was just something to happen to me. Yeah. And it is really you have to. I mean, it is a defining moment when you look at a situation and you don't say, I am that, but you say that that is a whatever it is, whether it's a mistake or an error. But you don't say, I am the mistake. I am the problem. Because if you're not walking in that, anymore and you've turned your back and repented then you're not right and shame does not exist in that because you are not that that's what repentance does it cleans the slate and you again become a whole new person so how can that be your identity it just can't be but shame is a crippler man it is yep it is like when I was uh I was looking over what to talk about and man that one like flew off the page to me I was like

man, we never talk about shame. Yeah, no, it's true. It is. And so many people walk in it all the while believing that they're free. And they're not. They think, sometimes people think that walking around with shame is kind of not a badge of honor, but it's being true to who you are. And it's not like pretend to be somebody you're not.

People actually believe that if they aren't somebody who says they're an addict anymore. Well, it's not that you carry it as a badge of honor. You carry it as a reminder so you don't become that again. That's dangerous, though. Because being an addict carries a shame. And it reminds you of a sin that you no longer are. So how can you be that very thing? If you're a new creature in Christ and you're chasing after the Lord and you've turned your back on all that stuff,

you shouldn't call yourself something you're not. And in the shame of it. Because a lot of times people feel like if I don't, then people won't think that I remember who I was. Do you does that make sense? Yeah, it does. It does. And that makes you feel better because you're reminding these people that you remember that you were this bad person. And that makes them go, oh, okay, they don't think that it can't happen again, or they don't think, or they think that they're above all of that.

You should think you're above all of it. if Jesus has forgiven you of it, you are above it. And that's the world's way of handling it. Because I hate when people say, I'm an alcoholic. Right. Oh, I hate it. They claim it. Because it's something that they will always have and they will always live with.

And it's like, man, that sucks. And no, you're not. And how can you be the very thing that you do not do? Right. You say you're an alcoholic. Are you still drinking? No, and these are people that have been sober for years and years and years, but they will still label.

themselves as an alcoholic in the hopes that they'll never drink again like if I say this right I won't drink again exactly yeah because their hope is in that right and not in the Lord well and if they've hurt family from it true then they want their family to realize that they know who they were right and they're not beyond ever being that again which is dangerous because you should never remind your family of that because that past is not good and they should be looking at who you claim you're going to be, not who you were. The hope is in who you are going to be tomorrow and in five to ten years from now, not in who you were in your past. That's dangerous. Right. And like AA and stuff like that. The world's way of like rehab and stuff, their success rate is very

like small. It is small. They're literally putting a band-aid on like a spiritual role. Well, because they use just, they're like every other cult out there, even though. A-A is not a cult, they use a small fragment of the gospel. Right. Which gives people hope, because Jesus is that. They give you an element of truth in the word of God. Yeah. And then the rest of it's the world's way.

If you go all God, their success. Literally. But you do a cult or you do something that just has the element and taste. Right. Because if they do all God, you're going to offend the people who don't believe in God. And let's face it, AA makes money. Their government-funded, I was going to say company, government-funded organization. Yeah.

And they can't go all God, even though jails and stuff like that, they had the recidary, what's like, when they come back again? What's that word? Recidivis, recideration or something like that. I can't remember how you say that. I think Tracy is looking it up. God bless you. Repeating, repeat offenders. Okay.

Okay. So when the church ran the jails, the repeating, the people who would come back repeating the offense was like nil. Wow. But then when we gave it to the government, it's like a hamster on a wheel. They're going back all the time. It becomes where people are so used to the life study. of jail and living in a confined space that living out in the real world scares them more than getting out of the six-by-five room or cell room they're in.

And you do go back because it's what you've become comfortable with. Did you find the word? Yeah. Okay. I don't know phonics. Can you spell it for me? Spell it for me. R-E-C-I-D-I-V-I-S-M.

Recidivivation. Something. recidiv. Did you say T-I-O-N? T-I-N. T-I-N-R-E-C-I-D-I-V-I-M-S-M. Recidivism. Yes.

But you can say it other than, I know. I know it's a miracle. I even knew it. But I couldn't even say it. I knew there was a D and I knew there was a V. Now how they all added up, I do not know. And I couldn't, I couldn't put it together. Yeah, that was a tough one.

But it doesn't work. Only God. And that's what with shame, it's always self-focused. Everything is me, me, me, I, I, I don't want you to be upset with me. I don't want you to feel a certain way about me. I, I, I, I, but then when it's all God-focused, literally, there's no you anymore. I think of Jeff and his story, like he went the rehab route, the world's way, and he kept relapsing and kept relapsing. And then as soon as he did it, God's way, Teen Challenge took him in. Teen Challenge is an excellent program. I don't know how they are anymore. Back in the day. It was excellent. They killed it. Yes. And it was the only place that would take him.

And so Jeff was like, I'm just going to go clean up. And they were like, well, if you're going to be here, you're going to do it our way. And they have, like, you have to attend chapel every night. Yes. There's scripture memorization. Like they disciple you heavily. Because we used to have Teen Challenge come in. Our churches supported them big time.

Like we would give, our churches would give to those, to that organization. and they would have teens come in. Yeah. I remember as a young girl, teens coming in. They had a choir. Did they come in and sing? Yes. They would come in and they, all the people in the choir had a story. Yes.

And they would pull like three to five of those people out and they would give their testimony. Yeah. And it was amazing. And those people went into ministry a lot of times. Jeff was one of them. And it was like going back to school. It is. But it's a Christian school.

It is. It was amazing. It was amazing. And he said one day at chapel because you have to, to attend chapel. He really only went there to clean up. That was his only intention. He's in chapel and he's looking around and he's like, why are these men, these men, hardcore men, lifting their hands and you can see so much peace on their faces. He's like, man, I want what they have. And he's like, all right, Lord, if you're real, I need to show up right now.

He's like, I don't need to show up next week. I need you to show up right now. He said, in that moment, a hand went into his heart and started pulling out shame. Wow. Literally started to pull. Because when you're an addicts, right? you have so much shame because you have you have burned every single bridge at that point his family wouldn't even accept a collect call from him yeah um and so he said the that that this hand just literally came and just started pulling out shame pulling out regret pulling out addiction he never once relapse after that never once because that's our god yeah and he can do it for anybody and everybody if they would just open up to it literally but that's that's why the other stuff

doesn't work. But you have to get rid of shame in order to be a whole different person. You really do. Shame's definition is a painful emotion caused by consciousness of guilt, shortcoming, or impropriety, which is exactly what you were just saying that the Lord was doing with Jeff. But so many people live in that. And you know, you think about the very first people who are shamed or us shamed was our great ancestors, Adam and Eve. Oh, yeah. If you look at the first people who were shamed, what happened to them? They, well, they, I was going to say rebelled, but that's not, they were disobedient. They did what the Lord told them not to do because they were deceived, but they chose that deception.

I mean, like I've said before, Adam stood right there while Eve took the apple and he could have said, stop. But he didn't, for whatever reason. and then when the Lord came to see them, what did they do? It says in Genesis 3, 8 through 10, it says when the cool evening breezes were blowing, the man and his wife heard the Lord God walking about in the garden. So they hid from the God, they hid from the Lord God among the trees. And then the Lord called to the man, where are you? And he replied, I heard you walking in the garden.

So I hid, I was afraid because I was naked. He was ashamed because he was naked. His eyes had been opened. And the thing is, is when you do something wrong, you usually want to hide it. If you lie, what do you do? You cover it up. If you steal, if you cheat, whatever it is, you're going to try and cover your tracks the whole entire time. At the end of the day, though, shame does not go away.

Nobody may ever find out about it, but there's shame in that. Adam and Eve literally were walking with the Lord. And they go from walking with the Lord to hiding from him. How amazing is that to be able to walk in the evenings with God himself. And then you're so stupid, which has been me in my life. So as much as I blame them, I would probably have ate the apple too. But you go from walking with the Lord to being deceived to hiding, from him because you now know you're naked.

And you're embarrassed. Right. By your nakedness. When before, you had not even a clue because your mind was so pure. You knew no sin. Right. What would that be like? I know.

Yeah. I know. That's crazy. I know. But it'll change your behavior. And I wrote down how. It changes your behavior because now, as soon as you feel shamed. almost immediately. And I know this is true because this is, this was me. I'm telling you the very

things that caused me what I did when I felt shame. These are the four things that I did. I hid, I hid from my family and I hid from my friends. I left my church. I now began to fear, but I feared the very thing that I loved. Yeah. I feared losing it. And then I lied. Distance. insecurity. All those things shame bring upon you. And maybe, maybe you are like, that's not me. One of them might be you though. So here is my list that chat gave me for shame. Have you ever, some of these are me. have you ever sexually send had an affair looked at pornography had add add addictions whether it be drug or alcohol had an abortion which you know is so funny because so many women walk in shame and I want to hit the subject very very briefly and very hard at the same time lots of women

have had an abortion they have and Tom talks about abortion, but a lot of times he leaves out this part, even though he means it deeply. If you've had an abortion, there is no shame in that. Okay? And a lot of people who've had abortions walk around with a great deal of shame. Because at the moment, you believe the reason you're getting the abortion

is for multiple reasons. Like, people will say, well, they made it sound like it was a medical procedure. And they are so afraid to have the child that when they're hearing it's a medical procedure, it makes them feel better about their decision. They find themselves in a relationship that is going nowhere and how can they raise a child by themselves, well alone with, you know, they don't have the means or the funds. Because a lot of college students, high school students, that's one of the reasons why. They know they're not going to marry this person.

Like back in my day, and I was in high school from 81 to 85, and girls were having abortions, not like they are in high schools today, not like they are in college. Today, abortion is like a means of contraception. Back in my day, abortion was not like that. If a girl had an abortion in high school, it's because of what I just said. She knew she couldn't afford this child, and she was scared to death to tell her parents. So there's multiple, but today, a lot of times, it's a means of contraception for people. And so once you come to the other side of it and your lifestyle is different, and sometimes even then, because I know people that have had an abortion that can't even talk about it because it bothers them so greatly.

That it's not something. Now I know also people who have had an abortion and it's a private matter for them. Okay, so like it's not something that they go and they share and they exploit it or whatever. I do applaud, though, people who have had an abortion and use it as a means of teaching and say, I do respect that. I respect that greatly because they use it as a means to say, don't do what I did. Because you don't want to walk through what I walk through. But understand this.

And you girls can, I mean, you're younger than me. me. So it probably was more of a normal thing to see back in the day. But, I mean, when you were younger, and even like my girlfriends, like when I graduated high school and I was out partying and stuff like that, I had a few girlfriends too. Like they were just like, I ain't having this kid. And they were with their boyfriend and who they potentially could have married. And they're like, I ain't having this kid. I was like, holy crap, you know. Yeah. So not. when I say, holy crap, I'm not putting them down. And it's not because of a piety that I say it.

I'm just saying, like, people have different reasons why. They did not feel guilty or bad. So there are the people who don't feel guilty or bad. And then there's ones that feel tremendous guilt and shame over it. And I'm just here to tell you, if you're a believer, you're forgiven. You have to, like, let that go. And lots of people don't. Yeah.

And that Tom would say, even though he speaks strongly against abortion, he would also say strongly to you, it's covered under the blood. Let it go. Forgive yourself. Ladies, you want to hit that topic because I do briefly, but harshly. Or hardly. I want to hit it hard because it is such a tough job, especially for women. Yeah, I mean, I used to work for a pregnancy center making testimonies, videos, and part of their pregnancy center was support after abortion. too. So they had like this whole other side of it. And and it's, I think the hardest thing was that even if they made the

decision in the moment thinking that this is like, I just, I can't afford it and I can't this. Yeah. Like the dates always stick with you. So you'll always remember the date that you had the abortion. You're always going to remember the due date that they gave you. Like it, it doesn't really relieve anything. Right. It's like it's that I can't, I can only imagine like how hard that would be to have to walk that out afterwards because you don't just do it and then forget about it. Well, I know there are some that do, but for the most part, I don't know very many people. I agree with you. I don't know anybody that's had one so far that. And I honestly didn't know anybody growing up that had one. I knew a girl in college, and she used it as a form of contraception. But I didn't know her, know her. I just

heard through the grapevine that she had had like six abortions. And she just, yeah, she just, She just said it was a form of contraception for her. And then as I got older, I didn't know anybody until I entered into like the pregnancy center realm. Oh my gosh. And I got to talk to a lot of people that now made it like a life mission for them to work in somewhere that they could help girls when they wanted to make that decision, not make that decision and share their testimonies and stuff.

So, but I know one girl, she had an abortion. and when she had got pregnant again later in life, it was really hard for her to connect with her firstborn because she had so much shame for the decision that she made earlier in life that she had a hard time connecting with her firstborn because of that decision. So she almost like just didn't like she she couldn't, she just couldn't connect because of that. I see and have you ever told me that story before? Maybe. because I feel like I've heard that too but I've also heard like where people have had them

and then they can't have a child. That too. And then there's so much pain from that. Yep, I know. An older woman that she never could have children after that. It's so sad. That is sad. But she's made it her mission to try to stop girls from having abortions by.

And the way they do it is a little bit like, I'd say like worldly. Like they meet them where they're at. I think if they just preach the word, like you just said, like I want to hit it hard, but like they just do it more, you know, nice. Oh my gosh. But whatever, whatever. But she did. She has made it like her life mission to see if she could help as many women as possible not make that position.

You know, that's where Romans 828 comes in. Correct. Because. Yeah. Yeah. So sad. I mean, it's really, it's really sad. Yeah.

I never encountered anybody who had an abortion. But didn't you, like, your area is really small. But you were in New York. How is that possible? Yeah. But my high school had, like, I think my middle school even had like a nursery. And so they made it, there was a ton of resources. So if you did get pregnant, like, there was help.

There was help everywhere. Okay. So we meant. So. girls did get pregnant. They just had the babies. Yeah, they had babies and took babies with them to, like in my middle school had a nursery.

So, they just took their babies to the nursery. Your middle school? Yes, my middle. My best friend Amarillo is had a baby at 15. That's not middle school. That's high school, right? 14, 15.

You get your sophomore, you're like ninth, you're like ninth going into fifth, 10th. Okay, I was like, wait a minute, what? I'm doing the math. I'm like, but she was,

I mean, 15. That's so young. But I do remember having the conversation with Emerilis, my friend, about, because I think abortion was an option

at one point for her. And I just remember like, just talking it with her. And I was like, I will help you. Like, I will walk this with you. And I did.

And she ended up having this baby. And he just had his birthday yesterday or the day before and he's 24. So crazy. You know, like, I go back to that moment where like,

she thought that's all, that she thought, that was her only option, but because it was complicated, her baby daddy was the pastor's sudden. So it was just kind of like, there was shame. Right. Oh my gosh. Did, did he know that he was the father? Yeah. Because that's the other side I feel really bad about it is when guys don't know and they have no say. Yeah. I don't like that. Yeah. Yeah. I don't like that. I think that that is wrong. I've heard that is very wrong. A recent one that I've heard. of the dad had no say.

Yeah. And the person went through with it. Yeah. It takes two. I know it's your body, but hello, it should be our choice, not your choice. I mean, you could have that baby and give it to the dad. Right. Like, you don't have to do that.

Or you can just have the baby and you made a choice and now. Well, yeah, I mean, I'm just saying. I know. No, you're right, though. They give the dad a chance. Right. I totally agree. Yeah, if he's willing.

I know. Some dads aren't, but if he's willing. But I have heard stories where the guy was broken. Yep, me too. But she ended up going through with the pregnancy, and now we have Jason, and Jason's an amazing man. That is so crazy. And he just turned 24, and he's working, and he's such a light to be around. That's so cool.

That is so freaking awesome. And we were just two. girls trying to figure it out. You were young too. It's not like you were older. How in the world? Like seriously? She brought, she brought Jason home and I like had a sleepover with her. So in the middle of the night, I'm just like, I'm holding Jason. She's making the bottle. That's crazy. Your babies. Literally we're babies with with a baby. It's good birth control. You'll have to show her this podcast because I know. Totally. You were babies. We were literal infants. And, um, oh my gosh. Yeah. And she homeschooled. She got her diploma. She homeschooled him? No, she homesed her school herself.

Oh my gosh. Herself and got her diploma. Like she, she overcame. Well, here's the thing. And this is what I say to people all the time. Not all the time. I say frequently. And we say this on the podcast too. It's like, what you do today determines your tomorrow. It really does. And it. And it really, what you invest in right now will be spiritually what you get back. It's like seed planting, right? Like, if you don't know, if you're not watering something, you're not growing something. Yeah. And a lot of times people like her, her saying to herself, okay, my future is determined by what I do right now. Right.

Like, okay, so I got to be about something. Yeah. I just and that's a kid that's freaking 15 years old who realized oopsie daisy made a big whopping mistake here

I'll do the right thing and now I'm going to have to it's going to be harder but I'm still going to be successful it's crazy so good so good and so crazy it is So if you have, you know, done the option of abortion, forgive yourself.

Move on. Forgive yourself. You know what? You're going to see that baby in heaven, you know? Yeah, don't miss heaven because of shame. Oh, my gosh, no. And then, you know what, too? It says that the Lord's going to wipe away our tears.

And it might be because we did something stupid like that, okay? He'll wipe away those tears. You'll love on that kid. See what, you know, what's become of it. Listen, in some ways, there's a positive. Can I tell you what the positive is? Is it didn't have to live hell on earth at times. I mean, literally it escaped.

Hanging out with Jesus. And you're hanging out with Jesus. I'm not saying do it because of that because that's not really a true positive, but it's the only positive you can probably pull from it. Is that it did go to heaven. And hello. Far superior than living on this earth and rolling the dice.

Unless you were a really solid believer, or got saved. Like she was, was she a Christian that whole entire time? Yeah. Okay, so there you go. But not everybody does that. Yeah.

They don't roll the dice. They still live like a hellion. And that kid doesn't go to heaven. So criminal behavior, so many people are so ashamed that they, you know, have a criminal past. Like, let that go. I, even like the worst of the worst,

people who have done what the world considers the worst of the worst, murder, pedophilia, all those things, like all of them. God restores and redeems. He does. He forgives. Truth will be revealed in when and when you prove that you are not those things.

Time shows those things. And as time shows them, you, when you say I am not that and you do not live like that, then people go, I don't, like, that was you, I would have never guessed you were in jail. I would have never guessed that was what you did. Because you're not that person. Like my kids, they don't know about my past. I mean, they know very, very little about my past.

And I've always told him, if you want to know, I'll tell you. I mean, I don't share it with hardly anybody. I mean, Tom obviously knows the whole entire thing. But not a lot of people know it because it's not a lot of people's business. I don't go and look at other people's past because there's no glory in knowing what their life was prior to. The glory is in who they are now.

So that's one of the reasons why I don't really delve into any of that with me. I would always be transparent and honest about it, but there's no glory in it. Like, I mean, they know I was not a virgin when I got married. Now, Tom was a virgin when we got married, but I wasn't the virgin when we got married. They know that. Well, to go any further beyond that, there's no glory in that.

Even knowing that I wasn't a virgin when I got married to him, even though we didn't mess around before we got married or do anything. Like, even that, me, them knowing that, where's the glory in knowing that I wasn't pure when I married my husband? I'm not ashamed. I'm not ashamed of it and I have no shame in it. But like my kids have told me a hundred times, we don't really care because you're not that person. If you told us those things, we'd be like, well, that's not you. Like, I don't even know that person.

And they don't know that person. You got to let that be you. Because then there's no shame in it. Because you don't resemble that person at all. And so you're just digging up stuff that God's like, why are you digging this up? Like, it's buried. It's gone. It's, you have to think like that.

You have to. And people will say it's because you're, ashamed of your past or they will tell you that you just don't want anybody to know about it. And I'm like, well, I don't really care if people know about it. I just don't know why anybody would want to know about it. It's not even who you are. It's not me. Right. Like, I'm not embarrassed at all. Yeah. Right. I'm not embarrassed at all about it. Right. I mean, I laugh at some of it, which I should be embarrassed because some of my behaviors were deplorable. But I'm not embarrassed by it. I just don't, I'm like, I'm not even that person. Right. Right. So.

It's a non-topic. Like, I wouldn't want to know about anybody else's past. I don't care about who they were. And maybe that's crazy. I know a lot of people love to use their past as their testimony. And depending on what that looks like, I'm okay with it. But a lot of times, that's all some of these ministry is, is their testimony. From 30 years ago.

Right. Right. Right. Nothing has happened since then. If you aren't successful right now, who cares about your testimony? Your testimony is really who you are still today because you have no ministry. Right. Your ministry is your testimony and that stinks. It smells.

There's nothing good from it. Like I'll go back to Jeff, Tomas. A lot of people don't know his. I mean, you just gave just a fraction. Like I gave a fraction of myself, right? If you knew all about his past. Right. Okay, he doesn't look like it at all.

If you knew about it, though, you'd be like... Oh, snap. Uh-huh. But really, what is truly profound is who he is now and the ministry that he has today. Correct. That's really like the wowser in the whole big scheme of things. And it's literally scripture come alive. Like, he is a new creation in Christ.

He's gone. Behold, the new has come. And really, he probably, if he was to ever talk about it with people, he'd be like, I still find out things on the daily. He'll bring stuff up and like, what? Yeah, well, oh yeah. It's funny, because I said something to Tom like a few months ago and he's like, oh, I didn't know that. And it wasn't anything horrible.

It wasn't anything, but it was more, it was more or less like, you're a nut. You're a freak kind of thing. Like, that's crazy. But for me, it's like dead weight. Like talking about all that. like seems like it just doesn't connect anymore right there's no connection no connection so if Jeff was to start telling me all about that stuff

I'd be like I'm bored right tell me what you're doing now like this is boring to me like I find nothing entertaining about that now what he's doing now right I'm like what the what because God is like just opening doors and like yeah showing up and showing off in that man's life and you just sit there and go, if God does that for him, man, I'm no different. That's where I'm like, that's where it's what it's all about. So understand, like getting beyond who you were is actually a good thing. And a lot of people will tell you it's not.

But it is biblical. Like Paul said, and he was a murderer. Like, he participated in martyring and putting Christians in jail and the whole nine. Like the guy was not a good guy. Right. But even he didn't talk about his past. He mentioned it like once. And the rest was all about what he was doing.

True, good. Because there was nothing good. Very true. And then people will hold it against you. For the very thing you're not anymore. Yeah. True. Yep.

So let it go. Lying or deception. People, you know, I didn't think about shame being in lying in deception, but in all actuality. Yeah. It's true. Financial failures. Never even thought about this. Yes, definitely. But I'm like, I know people who've literally like had to file bankruptcy or had businesses fail or, and they are so ashamed of it. I'm like, okay, hello. Depending on what the bankruptcy is for, people do stupid. Like when you're younger, you do stupid stuff. And then you learn from it and you're like, oopsie, daisy, never going to do that again. Let's that go. If you had a business that failed, well, you know what I say to that? At least you tried. Right.

At least you tried to not work for the man and work for yourself. Okay, you weren't successful. You learned things from it and you'll try something again. Right. There's something good. Absolutely. It's perspective on things too. If you're honest about why it failed, except the reasons why it did, be honest about those things.

Move on. Right. Most people don't even try. They don't try. They don't try. And I'm like, I never thought about that, though. Oh, yeah. Definitely.

That's crazy. Divorce definitely makes sense. That one makes parenting mistakes. That one makes sense big time to me. Business failures, which we touched on, losing a job. Like, I would have never thought somebody would feel shame about losing a job. True. Like, I'm like, bye.

See ya. Yeah. Like, if you lose your job, there's multiple reasons. Sometimes it was you, you fix it, you find a new job, you do better. Right. Yeah. I don't know. Some people will find their identity in what they do.

True. Or they feel like they give everything to their job. And then these people didn't appreciate me and now they just threw me out. Like I'm nothing. But where's the shame in that? Because I think that that's more about being kind of like. Pride. Well, but I think if you, like, if I came in every day and did all this and I,

And I, like, was like, oh, this is like, I can do the podcast. And all of a sudden you're like, peace out, Tracy. I'd be like, but I, like, what do you mean? Like, it's like, I would you have shame in that? No, I wouldn't. But I'm just saying, I think people could have like this built an identity around it. Like, there's a podcast and there's youth. And all of a sudden, then you're just like, okay, I'm firing you.

And that was like an identity. That was like something that I did. And now I, when people ask, I have to be like, oh, yeah, I don't do that anymore. I guess it could be shame in that. Or you're just like. And then you're trying to sit. tell explain why you're not and trying to make sure that people know and then like that me it was so hard right it was all hope it's not me it's them right instead of when you're

breaking up with someone yeah yeah it's probably the after it's me exactly but yeah the after part when you have to like explain to people yeah that part of it's true because that you can just move on but everybody's gonna know like I know I've always got kind of like the screw you mentality I know, I know. But that's true. Not everybody's wired that way. Not everybody's wired that way. I'm like, I mean, if somebody was like, do you have that job in my mind?

Like, no. They fired me. I'm like, I got it something better. I don't care. I never would be like, but here's the reason why. Right. Or like the fear of man too, like where you go in and you're like, hey, I'm going to do a good job and you didn't do a good job. And then you get fired for not doing a good job.

But then you're like, oh, I let somebody down. Like you don't really associate. like those situations. I might though. You know what though? If I really tried really hard and I thought I did a really good job and they fired me. Yeah. Because I am a person that really like if I do a job, I really try and do a really good job.

I might feel like that. Interesting. Wow. I figured you'd be like, meh, I tried. Well. Because I do know people that were fired and they went in and like they actually were really good at what they did. and then something just like a new season of life or they had like stuff going on and they didn't do a great job and they actually had to be like out. If I really like them, if I really like them,

I might be like that. If I didn't really like them, right. I'd be pissed off and I'd be like, screw them. Okay. So like they just lost the best thing that ever walked into that joint. As you should. Yeah. That's probably how I would feel. But if I like them and I thought I disappointed them. I might feel like that actually. All right. Even though I would be like, I was doing a really good job. I would probably start questioning myself. Oh, see. And that's the shame. Did I really do? That's what she did. Yeah. That's interesting. I never thought about it like that. Okay. We got two minutes. All right. Not reaching goals, academic struggles, feeling like they wasted years of their life, which is what you said. Yeah. Broken promises. That when

I get. I do too. That one I get growing up in poverty. When I read that one, I went, totally. I would have never wrote that one down though. Me either. But people live in shame because of how they grew up.

And then they constantly live like they have to prove something to people. And they become controlling because of it. Identity. Yep. Yes. We're going to hit the rest of this on next Friday. But I'm going to finish this list and we're going to get the heck out of here because we've got two minutes.

Having dysfunctional parents. probably like addicts and stuff like that because you're always having to lie for them or you're parenting them or parenting them or you're making up excuses for them like well it's just that yeah that's sad that's so true true abuse in the home I never thought about the shame of having parents that were addicted oh yeah but but that's true for sure 100% family scandals I would have never wrote that one down but that one's right yes because I I've known people that had parents that had affairs that were in prominent positions in the church. Yep.

And there is some shame and embarrassment with that. For the kids, especially, along with the one that, you know, obviously did it. But, yeah. Wait. Wait. Can you believe that? Yes. Oh, listen, I was fat and proud.

But I didn't like being fat and proud. I mean, fat and skinny or skinny and proud is way better. true. But people have shame with weight. Yes. No, that's very true. No, that's very. Or if they're like really, really, really skinny and they don't want to be really, really skinny. That was me. But I had no shame in that. I just really didn't want to be really, really skinny. Okay. As people will say like, are you, do you eat? And like, you know, yes. And then the other, yeah. And you're like, nonstop. Are you stop eating? Exactly. But, but you know what? That's wild because I would have never thought weight would make people feel shameful. you know because I'm like if you weigh that weight you either want to be that weight or you try

and you're not able to lose it but there's no shame in the game because you're actually trying I wouldn't think that there's shame in it that's true but then you feel shameful what is that then you feel shameful because you're not you're not meeting your goal which is one of the things oh yeah that's true but like and then also like and then also like and then the clothes wearing and looking at yourself and being like comparing yourself to others right other people yeah like after Tom said if you making yourself smaller so you don't like stand out in a crowd true Pastor Tom always says you know the people that like lose like weight quickly

when you're losing weight because you're like that is true girl so true and then now that I'm on the end of always having to watch what I eat yeah it is true you're always like God I hate them see shame I hate them appearance aging yeah aging oh I know I'm very aware of what my neck looks like Same. Really? I'm like 59 now. 59?

Mm-hmm. I don't feel ashamed. Good. Good. Are you going to be ashamed? I don't think I will, but I'm just very aware of what my neck is doing right now. Oh, I'm always doing this. I'm always doing this when I'm putting lotion on it.

I'm applying everything up. Yes. Yeah, everything's got to go up. I'm too. But I'm not ashamed. I'm actually like. Yeah. No, I'm.

I'm very happy about that. Why do you think people feel, we got to hurry. Why do you think people feel ashamed about age? Because society, it's the way the society has built it. Yeah, you're no longer useful. Right. Yeah, but you can be. Right.

Of course. That's the mindset. We know that. Yeah. But as you get older, like, we don't need you work in the workforce anymore. But, like, when you're in ministry, like, your mind kind of, like, knows that it's not. Like, society says, like, you go to school and you get this great degree and then you work in this incredible job and then when you, you know, then you're done, you're done and we don't need

you anymore. You know what? I think, you know what? If I didn't have this job, I'd be thinking, and I probably, I'm delusional. I'm telling you right now, I'm sure I'm delusional. Okay. But I'd be like, whoever got me is dang lucky, man. I'm going to work everybody else under the table. They need to hire me. You won't understand that one. The work one and the age, because you, yeah, you just embrace. You're a unicorn. You are a unicorn. Yeah, but like, do you think that I'd be delusional? Because nobody would. would hire me? Interesting. Well, what if nobody would hire you? Would you feel shame? Like if you went out and you were like trying to get in. No, I probably wouldn't feel shame. I probably think these

people are freaking idiots. I'm a golden, but what if it was a diamond in the rough? Because you put in there, coach, and I'm going to. But like, what if you kept applying and you never got a job? I'd be pissed probably. No shame though? I don't know. Especially if you found out like a younger person got hired in your position. Would that bring shame? I don't know. I might think that they're stupid. Okay. Good. I might be like, There's so much more wisdom here than that, right there. Like, what are you doing? I know.

I don't know if there'd be shame. But that's illegal, right? But they don't have to tell you at your age. They're not going to realize all these younger people are getting hired. Everybody keeps getting a job and I don't. 60 over here ain't getting hired. There's a reason. I don't know if I would feel shame.

That's a good question. All right. Huh. Because I think I might be delusional on that. But I don't know if I'd feel shame. I might be delusional in thinking people would want me. Right. I'm pretty sure.

I am delusional I'm thinking people would want me. But, I don't know. The thing is, like, for me, I'm like, I got a proven track record. I got a proven track record in sales. I've always been in the top. Yep.

I've always done stellar work. Like, I don't know. Like, I would think your track record speaks for itself, so why wouldn't they want you? But what you're saying is true. Right. And they could probably pay, somebody less than they'd have to pay you.

Or it's true. You'd want. So that usually is an issue too. Yeah. That's true too. N. A.I. I could just hire AI.

There's AI. And then there's AI. That's why you got to do all the blue collar jobs, electrical, mechanical work. Yep. Any plumbing. Yeah. Things like that. Those jobs will never be gone.

They won't. It'll be, yeah. It'll be really long time. You go. Yeah. If you're in customer service. We're going to keep going really fast. Scars.

Oh. Scars. Like, and disabilities. What, like, are they meaning like scars down your arm? I should have asked. Do you have a, idea of shame from your scar? I don't like to. I have this massive scar on my arm.

And I always make up a story. Oh, I have a big huge dent in my leg. And I have one too. I have, it literally looks like I got shot in the leg. Oh, my God. And so I would say it. I would believe it. I would believe it.

I would like I've been stabbed. my arm. It does look like this. I got this in a gang fight. Oh my gosh. How did you get it really? I had a lump removed. I had a boil.

Our stories aren't that great. No, it's so boring. Stick on the other ones, please. And you came from a boil and then not even like a, it was like a fat lump, like a fatty lump. Yeah, which is a lymoma. Yeah. Yeah, that's no good. No.

Both of our stink. Yeah. Stick on your other stories, please. But people do believe me when I say, I got. I would totally believe. Because it looks like a perfect bullet wound. And you were crazy. Yeah, but this happened when I was like 10.

I still would have believed you. So funny. Illness, physical limitations, feeling unattractive, anxiety. You know, we're going to go over these later. Okay. Because it's now almost five minutes. We're going to see you on.

We got things to do people. We got to schedule. We got to do some stuff. We got to do some stuff. We're out of here. Peace. Bye.