The Horror Returns - THR Bonus Episode - Hannibal: Season 1 Episode 1

Episode Date: August 27, 2023

For all listeners, we bring you our very first Patreon exclusive show as Lance and Brain get into the show Hannibal. Thanks for listening! The Horror Returns Website: https://thehorrorreturns.com THR YouTube Channel: https://youtube.com/@thehorrorreturnspodcast3277 THR Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thehorrorreturns THR Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thehorrorreturns/ Join THR Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1056143707851246 THR X: https://twitter.com/horror_returns?s=21&t=XKcrrOBZ7mzjwJY0ZJWrGA THR Instagram: https://instagram.com/thehorrorreturns?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y= THR TeePublic: https://www.teepublic.com/user/the-horror-returns SK8ER Nez Podcast Network: https://www.podbean.com/pu/pbblog-p3n57-c4166 E Society Spotify For Podcasters: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/esoc E Society YouTube Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UCliC6x_a7p3kTV_0LC4S10A

guys. This is Lance and I'm with Brian. What's going on, man? Not much. This is a new thing that we're starting. I think we learned about this show. Actually, I guess we could both talk about how we learned about it.

I knew it was on, but I've always been a, I refuse to watch network TV type guy. But then I think when Bean and Marcy were on, they finally told us about this show called Hannibal. and had asked if we'd ever watched it before what uh i had never seen a single episode brian um before

we decided to take on this endeavor what about you um i had originally i've only seen the first i believe two seasons and uh with though with that i was uh day one when the first episode drop okay because uh it it looked when i seen the trailer it looked very well made I like Mads. Mickelson and I just thought you know getting into Hannibal Lecter and the other characters I thought it would really work doing it as a series as opposed to a movie

and yeah I was pretty much day one and I kind of kind of slipped off a little bit that's why I didn't finish the series and then when it got canceled I kind of just put it on the back burner and figure I'll get to it when I get to it and best time seems to be now that we're doing this. Yeah, make sense. That's funny, man.

I had a similar situation with another series that the same exact creator, or I guess showrunner on this one, was involved in. Brian Fuller started out the first season of American Gods and then I don't know what happened with that, but I did watch the second season. I don't think he had anything to do with that one from what I understand, but it was like, man, it was such a monumental drop from quality from season one to season two.

And I started season three and then like two or three episodes in, for whatever reason they announced that that was going to be the final season. And I pretty much just said, fuck it, because first you lost Brian Fuller, and then I know a lot of the actors started jumping ship for different reasons, and apparently there was a lot of strife on set. You heard about any of that? Yeah, it's kind of like The Walking Dead,

like when Frank Deribont left. I know one of the actors, I can't think of his character's name. He asked. Oh, shit, I'm sorry, Herschel. You're talking about the guy who played Herschel, right? no it was a different actor who was the one with the he he had the camper in the first two seasons oh fuck it's you know what man i'm i'm actually watching season 11 just because i have to finish it

out i i couldn't i couldn't even tell you man yeah he he's an actor that he's close with frank darabond and i remember uh when frank daribont left after the second during i don't know if it was the first the second season but i guess he asked for his character to be killed off because he he didn't want to work with anybody else. Well, I know Orlando Jones either got the boot or quit,

and he was probably one of my two or three favorite actors like him and leave Schreiber's brother. Pablo. Yeah, there you go, Pablo. I think those were my two favorites. So when he jumped ship and then they said,

well, it's going to be canceled. I'm like, fuck it. I'm not even going to do season three, you know? Yeah, I think, I think Orlando quit and they tried to say they let him go, but I think he quit. Yes, mutual decision or whatever. Yeah. That one.

All right, folks. We're not here to talk about American gods or the Walking Dead. We're here to do our first ever, I guess it's our first ever Patreon exclusive show. Yep, first. All right. Hopefully more to follow, but we're going to give you guys a little appriteef as we cover Hannibal. the series all the way through and we're going to start with

season one episode one. So title of the episode is Approteef and it is the first episode I'm getting all this right out of Wikipedia of psychological thriller horror series Hannibal.

The episode was written by Brian Fuller and directed by David Slade. Not David Spade? Brian? I think that would have been a completely different episode. Well, this was first broadcast on April 4th,

2013 on NBC. The series is based on characters and elements appearing in Thomas Harris' novels Red Dragon and Hannibal with focus on the relationship between FBI investigator Will Graham, played by

Hugh Dancy, and Dr. Hannibal Lecter, who, as you mentioned earlier, played by the Great Mads Mickelson. He is a forensic psychiatrist destined to become Graham's most cunning enemy But are they really enemies? I guess we'll find out as we go, right? Yeah.

So basic quick synopsis. This particular episode revolves around Will Graham, an FBI profiler who is able to sense and think like any other serial killer during a crime scene and recreate the murder. When college girls are reported to be missing and all are said to be kidnapped by the same person, Graham is recruited by Special Agent Jack Crawford to help.

After one of the girls shows up in her house dead, Graham and Crawford receive help from Dr. Hannibal Lecter, a psychiatrist who has been dealing with sociopaths. However, unbeknownst to Graham, Crawford, and the FBI, Lecter is a cannibal, who has been killing and retrieving victims in order to make them his personal meal. So, Brian, what did you think, man? I'm assuming you, obviously a rewatch, because you said you'd seen this when it first came out, right? Yes.

What were your first thoughts when it started? Like, how did this thing, how did it hit you? I like how we didn't get really a lot from Hannibal right away. we got a lot more from the other characters in it especially Will Graham I love the whole having to walk through in his mind

the crime scene and he's seeing it as it happens and he's able to just kind of break down everything I love that how they just reenact everything Lawrence Fishburn is great

and man does mad mickleson make cooking people look delicious because he is just sheffing it up in there and i think i don't know i mean no disrespect to um oh man i'm spacing on his name uh who played uh the original hannibal uh oh sir anthony hopkins yes thank you okay gotcha madman Mickleson just kind of he gives him a run for his money i i like i like the way he portrays hannibal and very smart very cool and um i like the interaction between him and will um because uh they they have a little bit of interaction here and he sees something in will that that intrigues him and he wants to get to know him and uh all that just just made for a great first episode for me Yeah, I was a little bit confused and thrown off at the beginning because, you know, you had this guy going through and he was at the crime scene and it's like everything was kind of going backwards and in slow motion.

And then, of course, you know, like he, I guess he puts himself into the minds of the serial killer to the point where they were actually replaying how the murder went down. but kind of like showing you from his point of view. Yeah. And I thought that was, okay, so we've probably got a guy that I'm assuming is a little bit, shall we say, non-traditional in his approach to solving crimes. Yeah, definitely. And I don't know, I would assume that he's probably got, wouldn't you think he's probably got Asperger's syndrome or something like that? Yeah, he's, I would say, on the spectrum.

He's, and you can also tell. that him doing this really takes it tall on his psyche. Oh, yeah, that's true. Yeah, it's pretty obvious that he's taking it personally and, like, absorbing. Like, he has to go so deep, I guess, to get into the mind of the criminal and stuff like that, that he lets it start to kind of eat him. If it's already eaten away at him this much in the first episode, I can only imagine what's coming up.

Yeah. What did you think about the scene where he first met Dr. Lector? And I think it's important that it was on Dr. Lector's turf. I think that means a lot that he met him there rather than Lector, like showing up at the station or something like that. What did you get out of that meeting? I could tell he, because what is Hannibal, a psychiatrist? Yeah, like that.

a therapist or something like that. A forensic psychiatrist I think is what they call him. Yeah, you can clearly tell that Graham doesn't want to be near a psychiatrist because he's got his guard up. Mm-hmm. And I just liked the whole interaction

because I kind of feel like they were sizing each other up mentally. Oh, okay. Yeah, I can see that. And then, of course, it was kind of interesting the way that when they met, you noticed that this is a guy that has a lot of class.

Like the way that his house is decorated. And it was very polite, but like you said, also very much, his ears were certainly pricked up. Like, he wasn't going to be taken advantage of. He knew that, well, obviously, he knows something that we know, since we know the Hannibal Electric character that Will Graham doesn't know, but do you think maybe Graham is already suspecting that there's something off about this guy, or do you think that he's just kind of going with the flow here?

If he did, I think that kind of went out the window by the end of the episode. But I honestly think he wasn't thinking anything because Hannibal seems to be very in control of everything, like you said, just very neat, polite, very intelligent. You see how he keeps himself as far as appearance in his office and everything is just immaculate. I just think he kind of portrays an image that you wouldn't think he's a cannibal. Mm-hmm.

Right. The cannibal next door, huh? Yeah. So we were talking a little bit about that opening scene where they, you know, he's recreating the crime scene in his mind. And you've got like the blood hitting the alarm and stuff like that, but it was doing it backwards. What did you think about the way they filmed that? Because you got to realize this was network TV. And this was, what, about seven or eight years ago.

So do you think, you think this was a little bit ahead of its time? I mean, this is something I would expect to see maybe like an AMC or something like that. But for NBC, man, how did they get away with this? Well, I know originally the show, I guess they aired it like super late at night. So there was that. But you can tell where the money went in this show. I think everything, I think Brian Fuller definitely had a vision. And I feel like that vision got put to camera very well because I love all the camera shots and the like I said, the recreation of all the crime scenes and just the the details and from everything from the scene, the set, the characters and everything.

I think the budget was well spent, but it does probably look like maybe the budget was high. and maybe a lot of people felt like that's why the show got canceled because the show was expensive. Ah, that could be. Especially for network TV. Right. Yeah, I could kind of see that. Because I've, now, have you read any of the books? No.

Yeah, I've read all the books, and they're not like, you know, super epic in scope. So, you know, we're not talking like a song of ice and fire here or anything like that where it's, or the stand. where it's 700 to 1200 page books. So I think maybe they would average 300 to 400 pages at the most. But nonetheless, I mean, you know, anytime you've got, you know, a character that's been written about this much and this in-depth, I think it does lend itself better to a series

than, you know, just a quick in-and-out movie. So I'm intrigued, man, especially having seen this first episode, I'm looking forward to continuing this on, especially if you're telling me that there's a chance that they're going to do what they're doing with Dexter and bring it back. Now, I guess we'll find out later whether Clarice Starling ever shows up in any of these episodes or not. Or do you know something I don't know? I am not sure, but if I was sure, I'm not going to tell you. Ah, fair enough. Okay.

All right, so we started out with that opening scene, which is where he was kind of recreating the grisly murder in his mind, and we were getting to see it all go through his head. And then we come to find out that he's in a classroom, teaching or lecturing for, I assume, college students, and, of course, in walks, an FBI agent. and Morpheus

Yes You beat me to the punch Morpheus himself What did you think about that That first meeting between those two I mean Larry Fishburn is always great Clearly he knows

What Will Graham is capable of But There is something that has happened in Will's past Okay That he is not really Wanting to return to the field He's he's more suited for

Lecturing and teaching Yeah So it's obvious he's gone through something very traumatic then Yeah And I do believe it It gets revealed later by his His psychiatrist Just

I think he had to fire his weapon on the field. Okay. I think they believe, they mentioned that. So this is one of those situations where, you know, you've got, I mean, we've seen this before, right, in different movies where you got somebody that used to be, that's obviously got a brilliant mind. Um, for whatever reason they're kind of out of the game or they're, you know, either teaching or maybe on a lecture circuit or maybe you'll have a character who's written like a best selling book. And that's all they're doing, right? It's going around and touring with the book and autographing and stuff like that.

And then all of a sudden, you know, up walks a, you know, very active agent that says, look, we need your help. Here's the deal. This is a big thing. You know, we know what you're capable of. We know what your talents are. We need you. So I think there's always, you know, this is obviously one of those tropes that we see quite a bit in these type of. types of movies and TV shows where, you know, there was a traumatic event. He decided to get out of it.

But yet, it's so enticing and so tempting because that's what he is, right? That's what he does. So, you know, half of him kind of wants to, I guess, save himself from it. And half of him just can't fucking wait to get back in the game and help out. Exactly. So the half that wants to get back into the game wins As they As they join forces And I guess they go out to talk with Parents of one of the

Was it a I'm assuming a missing girl at that point When they went out to meet with the parents Yeah I believe it was Not the first But yeah it was another missing girl Okay so it's like a string of girls that they're assuming have been abducted and they've confirmed that some have been killed and I guess others haven't been found at this point. Is that what you got out of it?

I think they did get found. Weren't they like displayed in certain ways? Yeah, that's right. There was a scene and that leads to the other agent that was working with Will Graham. And it seemed like there was always tension between him and her. But she, I guess, what did she find, like a metal filing or something to give him a

little... Yeah, I think it was like a little shard of metal. Maybe the guy was a metal worker or something. Okay. So I guess that that kind of all led up to that. Now, this is where, this one seemed confused

me a little bit. And I was trying to figure this out. Maybe you can help me or tell me what your impression of it was. But when he told the dad, don't come in here, don't come in here, right? And he goes into the room and the girl's in there dead. Was that really happening? Or was he reliving when she was killed in that room? Yeah, I think it was happening.

I believe they said that the killer felt bad for what he. did and try to put the body back. Oh, that's right. That's right. And was this the one that had the the certain body part they got put back in because it was cancerous? I think so. Okay, so if I remember correctly, the killer removed the liver and intended to eat it, but when they found it it had a tumor on it, they sewed the body part back into the corpse. Yeah. Wow. So now we're starting to get an idea of where we're going to be going with this show at this point. And I believe soon after that they find another body displayed out in the field somewhere, and Will's quickly to acknowledge that this wasn't done by the same guy.

It was done by a copycat. All right. So at this point, we've definitely got multiple killers. Yeah. Okay. And so are you getting the impression that this is going to be an ongoing story throughout the entire season? Or do you think we're going to be looking at more? Again, I'm coming in totally blind.

This is my first episode to ever watch the show. And that's probably why I never started it because I was kind of worried it was just going to be a Monster of the Week type thing. Which way are we going here, Brian? Are we going ongoing storyline? Are we going Monster of the Week? we could get a little bit of both I know there's going to be a battle of wits which Will is not knowing it's Hannibal

but he knows that there is another killer out there oh man well since you brought that up I've got to talk about the moment that Hannibal made a phone call to the suspect what was that all about man Why would he call him and warn him that they were like he said it was a courtesy call from a fellow I guess killer?

So it was like a professional, professional call, huh? From one to from one to another. So I think you were talking about they had found a second body. was that the one that they had determined that, I guess, there was a piece of an antler or something like that. So they kind of figured out that the body had been displayed on gear amplers or something like that. Yeah. Now, what was that?

I'm trying to think of the movie. Help me out here. What was the movie where there was a pool table involved and the killer? Silent Night Deadly Night. Yeah. So this kind of gave me vibes of Silent Night, Deadly Night, when they got to that part. Linnea Quigley. That's right. Absolutely. Okay. Oh, man. All right. So I think after this is where we start getting into what you were alluding to earlier.

Where it becomes obvious that Will Graham is having like bad dreams and, you know, all sorts of, like, just, you know, know, freaked out memories and stuff like that. Yeah, waking up and pools of sweat. He has to, like, the scene where he wakes up from a nightmare, and he has to take his shirt off and lay towels down because he's just completely soaked. And AJ was watching the episode with me, and she said, wow, that reminds me of you, because I'm a night sweater.

And so, there's some of, that I'll have to change my t-shirt or put a towel down like he did so I can definitely relate to that. So this all goes back to the trauma that he's suffered in the past on the job and like

is it we don't want to give anything away of course but is there one specific episode Brian or was this just is this all have to do just with the way his brain works? and the fact that he is getting into having to get into these serial killers' minds and, you know, obviously suffering the mental damage that would happen when you tend to do that, or is it kind of like a mixture of the both?

I think a mixture of both. I think having to work these cases, see these bodies, recreate what the killer does. I think it takes a toll on his mind, and then eventually it just kind of builds up. and then it sounded like he actually had to get physically involved in a situation. And I think it just, that moment just kind of broke him. So there's a lot going on here. Yes. And very damaged human being, but obviously very talented human being. Yeah.

It's kind of one of those weird things where the thing he's so good at is also the thing. that is like destroying him. Yeah, makes perfect sense, man. A lot of people are like that, like workaholics and things like that, you know, are people like, for example, you get an attorney that's so damn good at what they do that they're in the office, you know, 80 hours a week and they're out with clients and they're lying for people that they know committed murders and stuff like that. That shit's got a way down on you and hurt your.

your home life, you know? Yeah. And I'm sure it's very hard to stay, to stay married when you're, when you're taking all that on your shoulders like that. Yeah, he doesn't, well, he, he kind of seems like he's not really very sociable either. Like, he likes to be alone.

He looks like he lives out in the middle of nowhere, and he rescues a lot of dogs. Oh, yeah, I'd totally forgotten about that part of it. So, yeah, he, uh, Kind of brought a new friend home, huh? Yeah, it seems like it's more easy for him to interact with the dogs than it is actual people. I can see that, and I'm sure that that's going to come into play a lot as we take this journey together through the series. All right, so now we're getting to the, let's get back to Hand of Elector a little bit.

So, as you said, the man does prepare a meal. I mean, you know, I can see this guy as a chef at a three Michelin Star restaurant or something, you know. Correct me if I'm wrong. But is he kind of using this as cover to be a copycat killer and kind of throw the blame on somebody else as he enjoys his liver and fava vines? Yeah, I would suspect that he. uses the cover of many different killers to satisfy his needs. Yeah, this is going to get pretty interesting, man.

So we're getting, I think we're going to get into a monumental battle of wits here between these two. I can't wait to see how Lawrence Fishburn's character interacts with these guys. I'm wondering if there's got to be more stuff going on down the road. I'm sure there's going to be lots of twisty tourneys, I would suspect, as we move forward here. Twisty tourney's introduction to characters that I'm not familiar with the books but I know from the movies will get some other characters. All right, well, I guess one of the last things that I wanted to talk about, which we

kind of alluded to it earlier where Dr. Lector made that wonderful courtesy call to his fellow sociopath there. Man, what a fucking mess that turned into, huh? When they showed up at the house, good Lord. Yep, and another situation that made Will Graham get involved again. Mm-hmm. And but I also believe that it kind of was planned So Hannibal could further

Keep his cover because he was Even though he he he he warned the guy he also was there to assist in apprehending him and helping the girl So it it really looked good on his part Yeah, so he's further ingratiating him with Fishburn and with Will Graham. What's Fishburn's character's name? Crawford. There you go. Crawford and Graham.

So he's ingratiating himself with them. He's making himself more valuable to them. He's kind of playing both of them. Yeah. He even went as far as to stay all night with the girl in the hospital in her room. Okay. Was that... Ah, man, see, I don't know how to, I don't know, I don't know what to think about that.

Did he actually have, you know, feel, I mean, he's a multi-layered character, for sure. But do you think that was just disingenuous to make it appear as though he cared? Or do you think he, you know, honestly somewhere deep down inside he, you know, cared about this young lady? I think a little, a little bit of both. I think he's keeping up appearances, but I think he only killed. kills certain people, I think. I don't think he wishes everybody dead. So I think a little, there's probably something a little bit there,

but I think mostly it was for our parents. Very interesting, man. All right, well. Because, I mean, going back to the ambulance, or before the ambulance got there, he didn't have to, like, hold her, in his hand over her wound to stop the bleeding. You know, I think it does. a little bit of both. I think he was

trying to save her, but at the same time, keeping appearances. Man, this is, this is going to be a wild ride, Brian. If this first episode has anything to tell us, they put a lot of thought into these characters.

Not too familiar with the guy who's playing Will Graham, man. I think he's a young British chap, right? Hugh Darcy? Is that like what are some of the things he's been in? He's been in Black Hawk Down.

I'm looking at his... Ah, okay, okay. He was in that one movie with Scarlet Witch, Martha, Marcy, May, Marlene. So was he a member of the cult or was he someone outside the cult in that movie? I have not seen that movie and like since it came out.

Okay, all right. got you. I haven't seen it in a while either. It's a good movie. He's been in some stuff. Okay. Yeah, but I mean, I think we've got a good cast here. It looks like if we can stay on track, if the rest of the episodes are written as well as this one, it's going to be a lot of fun. As far as you know

how many, are we looking at, please tell me we're not looking at like 24 episodes of season here. I'm looking it up right now. I don't think they... Maybe 10, 13. See, that's perfect. Which is kind of like what you get now with most of the streaming series

and stuff like that. So, if that's the case, this show is a little bit ahead of its time then. So what do we have? 10 episodes of season? First episode is 13. So it looks like they can range from 10 to 13 episodes of season. Perfect.

All right. We're not going Flash or Arrow where it's like 30 episodes. Yeah, that's exactly what turned me off all those CW shows. I just couldn't do it. I can't believe I'm sticking with Walking Dead, man. But I'm almost there, Brian. I'm that close. So I got at least see the main show through.

Yeah, I'll probably get caught up just to be there with you when it went it all ends in five years. Yeah, it's been quite a journey. Five years from now. That's going to be a five-year-long season. Yeah, I don't know. They keep talking about all these spinoff shows. I'm like, well, let's finish the main thing first.

But I don't control walking dead. All right. Well, as I said earlier, I can't remember if it was before. after we were recording, but it's pretty obvious from the Wikipedia page that we got that update from and some of the other things I've seen. There's a huge fan following, so I know we're not going to rate each individual episode. You and I decided we're going to give a rating at the end of each season. Yeah. So unless you have any final things to say about this one, I was going to get into a few little pieces of trivia and then sign out. What do you think?

think. No, I think that's it. Great first episode. I'm looking to really looking forward to tackling this with you. It's going to be a lot of fun, man. So our plans are to do this weekly. Yes. We'll be releasing this show every week until we finish up. And then hopefully by the time we get to the final episode of season three, they will have announced a new season or at least a movie. So I do want to cover a couple piece of trivia before we sign out because there's some really interesting things here. So these are all from IMDB where we get most of our trivia on the show. Hannibal

Lecter portrayed by Mads Mikkelson is listening to Box Goldberg Variations when he's first introduced. This piece of music is also playing in the Silence of the Lambs when Lecter murders the two officers in his cell. Oh, he wears that guy's face. Yeah, I remember that. All right, it gets weird. Are you ready?

Yep. Okay, there is a scene that took place in a red FBI bathroom in the episode. That bathroom is almost an exact replica of the bathroom that appeared in Stanley Kubrick's film The Shining. Now that you mention it, it, oh, wow, that's crazy. All right, and then I've got to bring this up because we talked about, maybe he is, maybe he isn't. I think this confirms it. We must have missed where he actually said it in the episode, but final piece of trivia here. Will mentions, yes, indeed, that he falls on the Asperger's end of the autism spectrum.

Hugh Dancy previously played a young man with the same exact disorder in a movie called Adam from 2009. So there you go. There you go. All right. So that's, I guess that's our season one, episode one of Hannibal. So we're going to sign out any closing words, Brian, or anything we want to say at the end of these? I just want to say thank you to our patrons. Thank you for supporting us. We're going to try to give you more content. Just thank you for sticking with us throughout these years.

Yeah, and man, I cannot tell you how good it feels, Brian, for us to be able at the end of all these shows to just simply say, go to www. The Horror Returns.com, and you will have links to literally everything horror returns. And boy, do we have some new stuff on the way. It's a real thing. It happened. All right, man. I guess until next week, patrons, thank you very much. And we're signing out.