The Horror Returns - THR Bonus Episode - Movie Homework With BingeMedia: Beau Is Afraid (2023)

Episode Date: August 26, 2023

In this very special presentation, Lance joins up with Jack Falvey IV of BingeMedia to talk about Ari Aster's newest film, Beau Is Afraid. How does this compare to Ari's other films, is this really a horror film, and why the heck does Pink Floyd keep coming up in the conversation? Thanks for listening! The Horror Returns Website: https://thehorrorreturns.com THR YouTube Channel: https://youtube.com/@thehorrorreturnspodcast3277 THR Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thehorrorreturns THR Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thehorrorreturns/ Join THR Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1056143707851246 THR X: https://twitter.com/horror_returns?s=21&t=XKcrrOBZ7mzjwJY0ZJWrGA THR Instagram: https://instagram.com/thehorrorreturns?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y= THR TeePublic: https://www.teepublic.com/user/the-horror-returns SK8ER Nez Podcast Network: https://www.podbean.com/pu/pbblog-p3n57-c4166 E Society Spotify For Podcasters: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/esoc E Society YouTube Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UCliC6x_a7p3kTV_0LC4S10A Music By: Steve Carleton Of The Geekz

You're listening to Movie Homework. Brought to you by the Binge Media Podcast Network. Subscribe wherever you get podcasts. Another edition of movie homework on, well, on bingemedia.net, but this episode might be elsewhere as well. I'm Jack. I'm joined today by somebody who's not my normal co-host. Chad is not around, and so in his stead, I have decided to bring along the one, the only master of the horror returns, Lance from Texas. What's up, Lance?

Hey, man. Appreciate it. We've been talking about this for a while. As a matter of fact, I think when I got out to the theater, checking out Bo's Afraid, I texted you that this movie reminds me of another movie in certain spots. And I think you agreed right away. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So we're talking about Boas Afraid today.

And we're going to get into it. This is going to be a little bit different of an episode than we normally do. Obviously, we always do the superlatives and all that stuff. but we're going to go in a different direction because this is an interesting movie. I think it's worth talking about. And this episode is going to get spoilery. Movie homework always does, and we don't always do a recent release. So make sure that if you don't want to be spoiled, you don't listen to this episode any further

because we are probably going to dip pretty heavily into that throughout here. But as always, let's just start off the top. We'll play a little bit of the trailer and we'll go from there. I love you. Are you at the airport? I'm on my way, I just... It's not safe, it's it? What do you think I should do?

I'm sure you'll do the right thing, sweetheart. Welcome back. I hit you with my car. What? I know. What? What is this? That's my little assistant health monitor.

Feeling sad about going home, Bo? Must feel totally unreal. I'm supposed to be leaving. believe i don't know if that's gonna happen crazy trailer crazy trailer um all right so 2023's beau afraid ari aster uh you know on the movie homework feed we have talked about ari aster once already with mid somar a few weeks back uh that was a good conversation and yeah aryaster is just uh he's kind of one of my guys anytime of movies coming out by him i'm i'm gonna be interested in seeing it but lance what's your uh what's your relationship with astor movies

Three for three easily, man. And on set, as usual, on second watch, I got so much more out of Boas Afraid than on the first watch where I saw in the theater. Interesting. Yeah, I mean, no verb it up, man. So let's see, I started out with Hereditary. That was all three of us on the Horror Returns.

That was our favorite film of that year, which is rare, because usually I'm a little bit more of the sci-fi vent. Brian is a little bit more. He likes the gore. You know, he likes the gore, like the old school type horror movies. And Phillips is the fucking wildcard, dude. You never know what this guy's going to like.

Because just when you think he likes everything, he'll give it, he'll give like a negative one to something. And it's like, what the fuck is up with this guy? But yeah, man, this might have been our first. Actually, I think Hereditary was our first. We're all three of us picked it as our favorite film of the year. Mids Samar was my favorite film of that year, not so much for the guys. and, you know, the year's list is still to come out, but Bo is afraid is going to be on there, man.

There's, I don't know, I'm not going to say he's the new Kubrick yet, but, or, you know, up there with David Fincher or somebody like that as we were talking about before the show, but guys got a bright future, man. Can't wait to see what he does next. Yeah, I think so. You know, in our midsummer episode that Chad and I recorded, we kind of talked about this a little bit, of the criticisms that gets thrown his way a lot is the fact that he makes movies that are

reworks of other stories. So the idea being that hereditary is his version of Rosemary's baby. Midsomar is his version of the Wicker Man. But I was afraid it's his version of, we'll talk about a little later on, but that is an interesting way to, I don't know, kind of attack dealing with Aster's work. But I think he, say the same thing I said in the other episode. I think he's original enough, and he brings enough to the table where he's doing his own thing. There's some similarities with those stories,

but in my opinion, not enough to be anything more than sort of, you know, flattering imitation. I don't think he's trying to read at the wheel with any of those. But, well, yeah, so Bo's Afraid. Joaquin Phoenix is Bo. And this movie is, like a lot of other movies in the last year, three hours long. Oh, yes.

It's been a very good year for long movies after post-COVID. Yeah. Now, some of those movies, I think, justified their run times and others, I'm not so sure they did. Bow is afraid is really an interesting movie to me because it's got, right from the outset, you know that you're in a just crazy other world. It's not reality. It's like hyper-real, you know. The fact that there's a guy running around on the street just butt-ass naked murdering people on the 6 o'clock news should tell you everything you need to know.

Like, it's just, it's just crazy. But Joaquin Phoenix, you know, he's obviously Joker finally got him an Oscar. I think the guy has been great for pretty much his whole career. Sure. Are you a walking guy? Even when he had us on, right? And said he was a rapper and no longer an actor. That was great.

Yeah. I mean, even that, I think it's hilarious because I'm a, I'm a lover of, like, crazy documentaries, and that's definitely a crazy one. No doubt. No doubt. I loved him in Gladiator, Jack. I thought that he was, to me, I mean, don't get me wrong. Gladiator had a lot of great, you know, great performances in it, up to it, including skinny Russell Crow,

as opposed to what we get now, which is, of course, you know, proud of that Russell Crow. We'll call meat kick, you know. No, I thought he had one of the best performances in the film because I hated him so fucking much. I agree. And anytime somebody can give you that much of a visceral feeling, that's acting. I mean, I love those performances that are, like you said, just make you fucking hate somebody. Walking Phoenix is comitist and gladiator is one of those. Sharon Stone is Ginger in Casino is another one where it's just, she is.

is such a mega bitch, but she's so good at it. You got to give her credit. But yeah, I think he's one of the better actors working these days. He makes a lot of interesting choices. I'm excited for his forthcoming Napoleon movie, you know, another Ridley Scott flick that boasts pretty well, you know. And I think in this, he is just, he makes some really interesting choices, man. You know, he starts out he's, I don't know.

How old do you think he is? Late 40s, somewhere in there? Early 50s? I mean, it's hard to tell. He could be a relatively young man, like even late 30s, but just early balding. Right. From all the anxiety and all the guilt and stuff like that.

Or he could be 55, or he could be anywhere in between. That's what's kind of cool about it. And you definitely see him at several other ages in this movie, which I think is a great choice to do that. True. One thing that I kind of felt cheated on a little bit, Jack, was I wanted more flashback. to what made him what he is.

Now, with the wall, you get, am I allowed to say that yet? Well, I'll let's out of the back now. We are going to be talking about that a little bit here, so. Okay, so in Pink Floyd the Wall, you've got several flashback scenes, right? Sure. Or Young Peak is Young Pink. But I did certainly appreciate the scene on the cruise ship

where he met the young lady that will come into play later in the movie as well. but I certainly would have appreciated more flashback scenes. Now, we did get a director's cut of Midsamar. It added about 40 minutes. Was it really that necessary? As per what you and Chad said, I agree with you. It really wasn't. A lot of that stuff.

Yeah, some of the character development with Christian and, you know, throwing the kid in the water with the rocks on them, but then pulling them out and they're still alive. We didn't need that. But now this movie, this movie, I think, would really benefit. from more youth flashbacks. I want to see more of his relationship with his mother. Yeah.

Yeah, I'd be interested. And, you know, one of the things that... There's so many little details in this movie that I find hilarious and interesting and kind of strange. One of which, again, this is spoilers for Bo is afraid, but I don't know, maybe my favorite cameo of the year, Bill Hader is the UPS delivery man.

I mean, absolutely... I knew I recognized his... voice on the phone and then when it shows yeah i didn't yeah i didn't i recognize richard kine's voice immediately of course of course impossible not to but uh but yeah bill hater shows up mark duplas shows up as i think he was a bumblebee or a butterfly one or the other at the play oh in the play huh yeah yeah um so he pops up but yeah it's just a really interesting kind of uh i don't want to call it a meandering movie it feels like a like a metaphysical i don't know journey into the mind or something, you know,

because it's, so it's basically a five-act structure. Starts out in Bose. I love the way that, sorry to interrupt, I love the screen, I'm pretty passionate about this movie because I just rewatched it again a couple of nights ago, so it's fresh in my mind,

but I absolutely love the way the screen goes to total black. And I mean, long enough to make you a little uncomfortable, like is the movie over, are we getting to get more, you know, kind of like Barbarian did, at the scene where the crazy woman came out at the end in the hallway. And you're like, is that the end of the movie? Should we get up?

Should we go get popcorn? You know. But I love the way they did that, man. You're right. Five-back, sorry. No, no, not at all. Not at all. It's where we're breaking this thing down, you know?

But, you know, a lot of great, you know, guest performances by Amy Ryan, Nathan Lane, I thought it was really funny. Oh, yeah. And there's another thing. The guy living on their property, his name is Dennis Minichet. Yes, I've seen him before. Yeah, well, he was the dairy farmer in In Glorious Bastards at the beginning. He's a very well-known French actor, actually, yeah.

Okay. He's looking a little Russell Crowish himself in this movie, but still a good actor, still good actor. And, yeah, there's just, the best way I can describe this movie is you're either going to really enjoy watching somebody get slowly tortured for three hours or you're not like you're either gonna find that funny and maybe a little empathetic or you're not gonna be able to deal with it you're gonna have to shut it off an hour in and I don't think there's a middle ground you know I think you're either on board or you're not with this movie you know because there's no there's no logical explanation for I think

anything that's going on in the flick like it's I really think it is just your you're stepping inside the mind of somebody who is riddled with any anxiety and like, oh absolutely, maternal guilt for just existing, you know, and everything is just like, the whole world around him is completely oppressive and difficult and terrible to him.

It just makes me laugh. The whole thing makes me laugh with like morbid laughter, you know. You're saying unreliable narrator is a, is a calm way to describe this movie. Yeah, you know, it might be that. it might also just be your, it could be

incredibly reliable narrator, you know? Like, from his perspective, his whole world could be skewed so heavily that like these are the things he's experiencing. And, you know, his psychologist is it turns out is like working against him. Um, what he

thinks about his mother. Yeah. Like, what he thinks about his mother being alive or dead is working against him. Um, sure. The one girl that he had feelings for when he was a kid, finally meets her, sleeps with her, and of course she just fucking dies. And then his mother's watching? He didn't have the heart attack.

It's true. His father and his father's father's father and his father's father's father's all dead. Exactly. And, you know, just the whole concept of the play and him sort of projecting what his life would look like. Had he been allowed to live it. Yeah, stepping through that for 20 to 25 minutes to then revert and be like, nope, that's not what happens. And it's just all just the play. It's like, what the fuck, man?

But I don't know. So I've been doing a lot of talking here, but you said you were really passionate about this movie. Is there something specific that connected with you on this? Or is it more just, it's a wild ride and you're kind of here for it? Okay. Let's take the opening sequence. Well, the absolute opening sequence, you don't know what's going on until you figure out that he's literally being born. Yeah.

Which is kind of an odd way to start a movie, right? A little bit. But then you go to him and he's in this incredibly, okay, so he's in an apartment complex that's, to call it an institutionalized-looking setting is an understatement, right? For sure. Okay, so like basically, just picture the worst possible apartment complex in communist Russia. but then overrun by hoodlums, right? Yep. And that's where he lives.

And I see, I compare that to the beginning of the wall, where it's in the, you're in the hallways of the hotel that he's staying at. The lady's got the vacuum cleaner going on. And super institutionalized. So that was the first big similarity that I saw between the two movies. And those were both in the very beginning part of the film.

And so that first, that first sequence where he's, you know, He's fighting with himself. You know he doesn't want to see his mother. There's no fucking way that he wants to see her. He wants to live his own life. In the back of his mind, he's got all of these dreams. I could have done this.

I could have been this. I could have had this family. I could have found a woman to fall in love with. But mother smothered me and mother convinced me that if I have sex for the very first time, I'm going to have a heart attack and die immediately. And that's just very similar to the mother in the wall. So we'll get into that as well. But no, that first 30, 40 minutes of this movie is just an exercise in just anxiety to the nth degree.

And we'll get into it later. I don't want to talk about it quite yet, but don't let me forget that I do want to talk about how much we've relied on medications, things like that, and escapism to get away from our anxiety. I have a pretty strong theory, Jack, that, and this kind of compares to the wall, too, because you've got his father, died in World War II. And that was pretty obvious from the storyline. And, you know, the gun was left behind that, yeah, we know what happened. We saw the beginning part of the wall. Just the hell of war and, you know, wanting to just get out of it any way you possibly can. Of course. So I've got a strong theory, Jack, that we have gotten to the point in this, I don't know if it's just in the U.S. Maybe some of our, you know, listeners in Canada and other parts of the world, Europe,

and tell us whether it's the same way there or not, but we have gotten so incredibly soft, and we have gotten so incredibly safe and secure, whether we really are or we think we are, that we, I think we've all got to the point where we have to create our own monsters, we have to create our own war. Look, dude, we don't have tigers chasing us down

trying to eat us anymore or bears like we did, you know, even just 100 years ago, right? We don't have, you know, displace, Native Americans trying to kill us as we're going west anymore like we did a hundred years ago. So I think we all create our own monsters and our own anxiety now. And in many ways it's worse. And then now we've got these doctors that have these miracle drugs, you know, Xanax, lithium, you know, you name it. And we'll get into the paint drinking later because I've got some theories about that as well. But yeah, no, I mean, just think about it, man.

this guy's in a situation where things probably aren't really as bad as he thinks they are but just because he's so incredibly anxious he thinks every single person out on the street is trying to get him trying to break into his apartment trying to take what little bit he has

I shit I don't know what's going on with that fucking note about you're playing your bass too loud maybe you can explain that to me but yeah no this first 40 minutes was complete fucking insanity jack it was in some ways my favorite part of the movie. Yeah, you know, I think a lot of people agree with you in the opening section, especially. You know, I saw so many reviews for this movie where people said, yeah, I loved the first act,

and then it sort of just got worse from there for a lot of folks. And I can kind of understand that because the first act is hilarious, and I think that kind of bleeds into the second act, too. There's a lot of funny stuff in there. But the movie definitely moves in different directions. directions. I think it is still pretty darkly hilarious at times, but it gets less funny as it goes and becomes less of a

open farce and more of like a metaphysical journey, you know? It just sort of the narrative shifts into I think being more a reflection of what Bo is feeling inside of his mind and just the

world around him is an external version of what he sees in his head. but you know it's interesting your point about they're not being challenges or not being real dangers to contend with it's a really interesting theory I've heard it put forward on on you know different podcasts and you know written in different books over the years

I think there's definitely something to it I think that there have been a lot of movies that have dealt with this and I think one of them that comes to mind immediately is Fight Club you know that whole speech about we are the middle children of history we have no great war are great wars ourselves, all that stuff. I mean, speaking directly to what you're talking about there. Speaking of Fenture, right? Exactly, exactly. And you end up in a prison of your own mind

and how difficult is that to escape from, right? If you don't have the self-awareness to rise above that, I mean, I can't imagine what that must be like for somebody who has a legitimate psychological problem, you know? And while Bo is a funny character to watch, he's also a really kind of depressing one for I think a certain kind of person you know he ultimately succumbs to whatever his mental illness is and uh you know it it culminates in him like you said in one scene drinking some paint uh in another scene imagining a life where he could have actually lived it and been somebody and not just be the you know, version of himself that's probably his, his least favorite version of what he

would have wanted to be, you know. Um, and his story ends in the most brutal way possible with being judged, uh, by the person in his life who sort of, uh, crippled his emotions to begin with. I mean, I can't think of anything worse than that, you know, um, pretty, pretty dark. It's pretty dark, but I say with a smile on my face, because it's also pretty fucking funny. Like, the way it's presented here is funny, you know? So, yeah, I just think this movie is so rich with, with, like, metaphors and meaning. I've seen it twice. I know I'm going to watch it again.

And it's the kind of movie that I think the longer, the more distance we have from it, I really see this being the kind of movie that pops up and say the Criterion Collection in a couple of years and people will write essays about and, you know, maybe 15 years from now, Astor has his version of a movie like The Whale where he gets a bunch of Oscars for it, right? And he's like, recognized as this great filmmaker.

And then people will look back and be like, oh, you know, that Bowie's afraid. It was a little weird, but man, that's his magnum opus kind of thing. You know, like the re-evaluation, right? Like, that always happens. But, well, yeah. Kind of like Aronovsky's mother, right? where everybody was walking out and giving it was like a fucking 20 score.

Exactly. Audience score, right? Everybody fucking hated it. What the fuck did I just see? That was garbage. Right. You know. But I mean, I loved it.

AJ and I loved it. We came out of that movie. We went to, after we saw Mother, we went and had a brunch. And it turned into a two and a half hour brunch because we kept talking about the movie. Yeah. And so this is one that she watched with me as well. And I was like, I don't know how my wife's going to react to this movie. because she said, well, she said, oh, it's Arioster, huh?

And I said, yeah, it's Arioster. And she said, well, you've already told me because of my fear of demons not to watch hereditary. So what is Bo afraid of, Lance? Is he afraid of demons? Is it going to be demons? Could it be Satan that comes out when I'm watching this movie? And I'm like, no, it's not that kind of movie.

Give it a chance. Jack, she was fucking riveted. She could not. It's a three-hour movie. started at like 10 p.m. I thought, okay, we'll watch half tonight. We'll watch the second half tomorrow. I kept trying to turn the movie off. She's like, no, I want to see what's going to happen next. She fucking loved it. She was mesmerized, man. But one thing I noticed, there were a lot of scenes where I just fucking started laughing my ass off. And she turned and looked at me. She said,

what are you laughing at? That's not funny what he's going through. That's not humorous. He's going through hell right now. Why are you laughing? And I'm like, give it a second. Maybe I'll laugh. Yeah, yeah. That whole, that expression, boiling the frog, right? That's basically what this movie is. I love it.

That's a great analogy, man. And it especially makes sense because he ends up in the water at the end, right? Oh, yeah, lots of water. Lots of water in the wall, as a matter of fact, too. Right. So yeah, so maybe this is as good a time as any. So you've alluded to it a couple of times.

But so Bo is afraid, walking out of the theater, my first thought. And I was, you know, Meg and I saw it, we saw it with two other couples. We get out of the theater, we're in the lobby, we're talking about the movie,

we're all just walking out of the theater laughing, you know, like, oh man, that movie was great, blah, blah, blah. And as we're going home, I think Meg was driving, and I'm sitting in the passenger seat

and it occurs to me, and I'm just like, oh my God, that ending reminded me a lot of the wall. And then the more, the more I thought about it, I was like, wait a minute, yeah,

So some different things happen, and it's a different character, and the circumstances are a little different. It's modernized. It's modernized. Exactly. It's the same sort of like alienated, anxiety-riddled character. There's a female companion that is, you know, kind of brushed aside in a similar way, we'll say, in the wall. The trial at the end of the wall is incredibly similar. to the end of Beau is afraid. Almost scene for scene, I would argue, Jack. I mean, the only difference here is that Bo is Afraid isn't a musical, but if it was, I have to think, it would sound a lot like the trial, you know?

The evidence before the court is incontrovertible. Well, the only difference being that the wall has a positive ending, you know, where they finally get outside the wall and maybe there's some hope. Bo's Afraid has no hope. There is an explosion. In all fairness, there's an explosion at the end of this one, too. It's true. true. It's just not the wall that was. Yeah, the, the, the whole scene in the attic when that

happened, I just knew that this movie was way, way over the way over the line. But again, the imagery of like the giant penis in the attic, I immediately said to myself, oh my, like, it's the, it's, it's Gerald Scarf paintings, it's the wall. Like, there were so many illusions. So outside of those couple things, you mentioned before and the things I said, did you pick up on any other references that you wanted to kind of like hash out? I did. I did. Yeah, like I said, early on, like that first sequence, it's very institutionalized, okay? So you're not in a comfortable, comfy home. He's in an incredibly uncomfortable, shitty apartment that we find out later his mother paid for to keep him there because we see the pictures when he's going to. walking around after her death. And then, you know, in the beginning of the wall, you've got him in the hotel, you know,

and then you've got, there's a lot of, a lot of fear of others. So when you, okay, how do I describe this? So it's not quite the same because, yes, obviously Bob Geldof's character is a mega rock star. So the reason that people are tearing down the gates and bursting through, and coming toward him in droves may or may not be the same reason that people are doing that same exact thing to Bo. But dude, the concept is fucking spot on.

Exactly. So you've got a metal gate that the fans are literally knocking down to get through, to get a piece of Bob Geldof. And then when you're in Bo's afraid, you've got all the crazy street people that are out there that are literally

bursting into his apartment and breaking the glass to get a piece of Bo. So you can't argue with that. You've got lots of water. So when Bo is afraid he's laying in a bathtub, and he looks up, and you get the poster earlier of the brown, brown recluse spiders somewhere in the building.

Don't let it bite you. The dude is up there literally barely holding on with sweat pouring off of him into the tub. And you see the brown recluse. And then they got falls on top of bow, man. And that was one of the most funniest fucking moments I've ever seen. Oh, yeah. Where you've got a fucking naked with incredibly huge balls.

Yes, yes. As we're going to learn later, the medical reason for that, courtesy of Nathan Lane. But potentially cancerous nuts. Right, right. And, yeah, so you got the water floating there, and then he got Bob Gelow in the wall floating in the pool. The first time he's just floating in there by himself, The second time was after he grabbed the glass and broke his or cut his hand.

And you've got the Jesus motif, right? Where his arms are out. So. Absolutely. Okay. And then at the beginning of the wall, you've got the mother sitting there on a park bench. And you see the baby carriage in the distance. Like she's there, but she's not really there.

Because the baby carrots is to get 20 or 30 feet away from her. And she's just so self-absorbed on the park bench. And that really hit me. So that was a couple. of things that I, you know, kind of noticed early on. What about you? So I, yeah, there, there was one thing in particular that I, I was trying to make a connection on and I wanted to, wanted to bring it up because I wasn't sure how, I wasn't sure if I was explaining it correctly in my own mind. But, so I was trying to look at other characters, right, and see if there were any illusions,

like direct allusions to the wall movie. And in the movie, Bob Hoskins shows up, right? And he's a, he's like a tour manager for pink. I think he's supposed to be his band manager. Oh yeah, sure, sure. Eating all the food like a savage and just like enjoying the, the, what do you call them the, ah shit, I can't think of the word from the, I guess the groupies, right? Oh, of course. Come through and do whatever they have to do to get backstage and that's right. That's right. So in a sense, his character is a leech, right? He's kind of leaching off of pink. You know, Ben's need managers, but, you know, it looks like maybe he's getting fat and sassy off of Pink's hard work a little bit there, right?

So I was trying to think, is there an analog to that in Bow's Afraid? And I don't think that it's exactly the same, but it sure seems like Amy Ryan and Nathan Lane are sort of trying to get the same sort of thing out of Bo, where they have a child who is missing, right? or a member of their family who's gone, and they're trying to use the relationship with Bo to fill a void somehow. And that they are essentially the leeches and the Bo is Afraid story that are doing something similar to the Bob Hoskins character. It's like you said, it's not the exact same, but I think in terms of their relationship to the main character,

it kind of serves a similar purpose. It's just a little bit different of a twist. Do you agree with that at all, or am I like way off on that, you think? Dude, now that you describe it that way, I was trying to figure out how that kind of fit together. And that explanation is as good as any I can think of, because they've got, number one, they've got a couple of,

they've got a couple of reasons for guilt, right? Number one, they've got the guilt of losing their son that was in the military. And that's why they let the crazy son of a bitch. Right, exactly. In his little, you know, trailer. And then they've got, They've also obviously got the guilt of her hitting Bo with her fucking car.

Even though that wasn't her fault. You know, Bo was just out running naked in the street because, you know, he's trying to get away from a fucking cop that went overboard, like trying to shoot him thinking he was the greasy strangler, so to speak. That's right. The knife. Classic. So, yeah, lots of guilt there.

And yes, they're pulling him in. Oh, my God, dude. Now that you mention it, not only did they bring him into the knife. their house, they put him in their sweet little daughter's bed with all the K-pop posters on the wall and all the little stuffed animals. Right. Everywhere. And just the softest, sweetest, nicest little place. You nailed it, brother. I think you just hit that one right on the head. Yeah, I see them totally as the Hoskins character. So I think there's something to that. They're getting a lot out of that.

I think, and so another connection I was trying to make, so in the wall, Pink has fantasies about him as essentially a fascist dictator at a concert, right? Basically Hitler, right? Exactly, and he is the supreme being. He is in control of the environment, and this is his ultimate dream. Now, I think in the pink story, for me, he becomes that because his experiences are so negative and so bad throughout his life, right? So his fantasy is to become that, whereas Bo's fantasy is to, you know, be happy, have a family grow old and then die. Three sons, right?

Right, right. And while they're, again, I don't think that Bo is afraid as a remake of the wall. I think that it is a framework, though, for what Ariester wanted to do with Boas Afraid. I think that he took some of the broad strokes and colored them in with his own palette. And I think this is an example of that where, you know, I don't know that the wall necessarily has a five-act structure. And the story is a little bit loose. The movie holds together fine, but it's not. Again, I think there's some metaphorical stuff, you know, and it's not necessarily A to B, to C to D.

I think it jumps around a bit there. But in Bo, I just saw the sort of theatrical performance on stage. Well, it's a direct analog to the Pink Floyd side of it because he's doing the same thing. He's performing on a stage. The difference is Pink takes it to, you know, he's on a power trip, whereas Bo wants to just kind of live a good life. So I saw a little bit of comparison there as well, whether it was conscious or not, I don't know, you know. But just something interesting that I thought was going on there. And then, you know, obviously everything that happens at the ending, we kind of talked that through.

The Parker Posey character, I think that the fact that he reconnects with her, sleeps with her, and then she dies. that happens to one of pink's, I don't know if it's one of his groupies or his girlfriend. It's kind of, I don't know, if it's a little bit nebulous there, or maybe I'm misinterpreting it, but maybe it's his ex-wife even. It is his ex-wife, isn't it?

Isn't there like an allusion to them being married, I think? Yeah, the redhead, right? Yeah, yeah. And his mother was also a bit of a redhead, and you've noticed that the mother and Bo is afraid is a redhead. Right, right. You can't be a coincidence, can it? I think there are too many.

I think there are too many coincidences for them to be coincidences. I think it is a very conscious interpretation of what Astor, I don't know, thinks about this. And his feelings on his relationship maybe with his own mother or his sort of complicated feelings around families and maybe even, you know, fame itself, the little bit that he has as a director of these successful movies, you know. But yeah, I just, you know, not to, let's put the car before the horse too much, but this just seems like one of those things that if you know what it is, then Bo is Afraid becomes, I think like an auteur level, I don't know, masterpiece might be too strong of a word. I've only seen it twice, but it is just, it's my kind of movie, you know.

You get to a place where there's a lot of interesting stuff going on. the metaphors are really fascinating. It gives you a lot to think about. And it's the kind of movie that you walk away from at the end, really needing to think about what you just saw and really kind of making up your mind and taking a stand one way or the other. And it's kind of exactly the sort of film I want to see

when I go to the movies. But yeah, I mean, Lance, before we start pushing this thing towards a conclusion here, other thoughts about the movie in general in terms of like the other performances or score standouts or anything like that? Well, I mean, one thing that we absolutely can't ignore, right? And this is one of the big centerpieces

of what makes these two movies so similar. Bow has no father figure, okay? Pink has no father figure. Both fathers were lost through intense trauma. Now, whether that be that Bo's father really did die, the very first time he came inside of a woman, probably not. Probably not. What did you get from it? Did she lock him in the attic for a while until he died?

That's really bizarre to, it's hard to say. There was some kind of trauma. I think she might have murdered him, truthfully. My read on that was after I thought about it, because obviously in the moment you're just like, what the fuck am I looking at? I think that she's a successful businesswoman, right? Like, that's clear. She's obviously wealthy. She has a nice house.

She's able to pay for his apartment. She's doing very well, and she seems to be well, well respected at least. And all those medications she gave him over the years to keep him healthy and clean. Exactly. And keep him away from those nasty, nasty girls, right? That's right. I couldn't help but think about Maude from the Big Lobowski, whose whole objective in that movie that you don't even know until you finish the movie,

is that she wants a child and she doesn't want the father to be anybody that she knows socially. So she sleeps with the dude with the hopes that she gets pregnant, right? And the feeling that I got from both. mother is that she was a really like self-driven determined woman who was going to get what she wanted and maybe what she wanted was a one-night stand with somebody so that she could have a son okay and the maybe not quite as sinister as i thought then well i think sinister in in in a different way right because she just again incredibly driven um business woman i i think that it stacks up that she is incredibly domineering.

We know that emotionally she has a lot of control over Bo. But I think also maybe she wanted a child, but she wanted it on her terms, and she didn't want any outside interference. And the fact that the father figure, or the symbol for the father figure, the gigantic dick in the attic, was hiding up there and was repressed.

It kind of tells me that she didn't want any male influence on this kid and she felt like she could do a better job because the world is so harsh and and all that. So that was the read that I got. It might not be correct. I might need to watch it a few more times and I missed a couple of details. I don't think there is a correct

or incorrect read in this movie, Jack. I think that's what makes it such a great film. Yeah, yeah. You know? That was the feel that I got, but I don't know. The murder aspect is interesting too because, of course, you know, hide them in the attic. A lot of fucked up

things have happened in addicts and Ariester movies, you know. Well, you know me, dude. You know my thoughts amidstamar that that that was not a murder suicide, that that was simply murder. Right. Right. Pele had a lot more going on. And I think that that, I think that my opinion on that is that that that group that Pele was involved in had a lot more influence in the United States than maybe we thought they did. But that's a talk for another time. Sure. Sure. So to get to the part, All right, let me get to one part, Jack, that I don't want to forget. So, okay, so when his mother is dead, right?

And she's officially dead. And it's conveniently there's no face in the open casket, so you can't tell whether that was her or not. Although, as you, of course, they alluded to later, he did notice a birth mark. So it was proven that that wasn't really mother's body. But when he's walking around the house, and you've got the bread music playing,

the real chilled out music from bread, And he's got all the posters, 1970s, 1980s, 1990s, 2000s, all the different medications that she kept him on.

Don't you think mother was keeping him comfortably numb? Oh, all this time? Absolutely. So that, dude,

that's another just fucking straight on homage to the wall. I would not say that Ariaster ripped off the wall. But if I were to sit down, if you and I

could sit down with Arioster and have a couple of beers or a coffee with him, right? And if we honestly asked him, have you ever seen Pink Floyd the Wall and he said, no? I think we could both call him a liar. Well, I have to think that if we sat there and asked him that question, hopefully he would just turn and smile and shake his head. And then you'd be like, all right, man, all right. You've got it, sir. I would hope so.

I would hope so. Yeah. I mean, it's kind of like you said. You know, we still have a few months to go this year. There's a Scorsese movie coming out. I'm sure you know how I feel about Scorsese. And, you know, I've really loved a couple of movies that have come out this year. But this one has really stayed in my head.

I feel like it's probably going to stick around in my top five. Unless the next few months have some real barn burners, you know. Sure. Sure. We'll have to see how that goes. But yeah, just a, I don't know. movie that I feel like not enough people have seen. I know the three-hour runtime scares folks, but you can always pause a movie and come back the next day.

You know, if that's the only way you can watch it, everybody's busy, and, you know, we're all living our lives. There's nothing wrong with that. So, yeah. You know, this is usually the part of the show, Lance, where we throw out some letter grades, because it is movie Homework. So we don't go one to ten.

We go from an A plus to an F. I think I'll go first on this unless you have anything else you want to add before we start throwing these ratings out No, no, this is great, man, we've covered a lot We've covered a lot Excellent, excellent, all right So I'll start it off

So I've seen this movie twice And it's actually made me want to watch it a third time I love the wall I saw the wall performed at Fenway in 2012 It's the greatest thing I have ever seen in my life in terms of live shows. Did they play Sweet Caroline in the middle of the movie? No, man. Oh, no, no, this was Roger Waters the wall. Like, it was, it was the live show. Oh, the live show. Yes, yes, yes. So it was, it was incredible. It's not fair to call it just a

concert. It was a show. It was unlike anything I've ever seen, you know. So it's, it's amazing. But I've loved that for a long time. And the fact that, somebody had the balls to make a movie, basically an art house film, an A24, three-hour movie that is essentially their take on the wall. I have so much more respect for Ari Aster now than I did six months ago. It's just totally on my wavelength. I love the choice. I'm close to loving this movie.

I think... I think it's a very strong, very strong. I think it's an A-minus for me. I think it's an A-minus. Nice. I don't know that I can call it a masterpiece. I don't know that I can call it a favorite yet, but I feel like it's on the road to there, you know,

so it's pretty close. Not bad. So what do you think, Lance? So hereditary for me was just a straight-f-A-plus. Like for a director's first film ever. I was so blown away with that and just upon rewatch it, it only gets better.

It truly, it only gets better. Midsomar A-plus. The guys didn't agree with me as much, but actually Midsomar is I would say is my favorite of his three so far. This one's an easy A. The fact that I loved it

so much more on the second viewing really says a lot, Jack. so I mean there's room to move my favorite film of the year so far is also an 824 film but it's speak to me oh talk to me this one or talk to me yeah talk to me the australian film have you seen that one yet i have yeah what'd you think i thought it was interesting i uh i do have some questions about it but i i'm kind of looking forward to a second watch on that one so yeah that's that's a second third fourth watch but uh just to give me an idea of how much I love comedy.

My second favorite movie the year so far as Renfield, so there you go. All right, nice. Very nice. All right, so that's pretty respectable. A from yourself, A minus, from myself. That's pretty high praise. I would say

if you have not, you know, if you didn't care about the spoilers and you listen to this episode, you should really go watch Bowes Afraid. I think it's well worth your time. And if you like Bowes Afraid, absolutely watch Pink Floyd's the Wall if you're unfamiliar with it. At least listen to the album. And if you're going to listen to the album, listen to the live one on the Is There Anybody

Out There Box Set? Because that is, that's the preferred version. That's just, that's where it's at. All right, Lance, as far as where everybody can find you, where can we hear more from you and the Horror Returns Network? Oh man, just check out our website, thehorrorreturns.com. You know, we got a Facebook group and all that good stuff. But, you know, we're on all the major podcast platforms.

We do it through Podbean. So, like, if we go to Apple Podcast or anything else, search for The Horror Returns, and you're there. And we also, by the way, do action movies and wrestling, just so you know. Nice. Very nice. All right. And as far as myself, well, if you're on the movie homework feed, you know, we're still here binge movie homework at gmail.com you can find myself on facebook we've got the binge media

group and uh you know keep an eye on the patreon uh things may be happening there pretty soon so we'll uh we'll have to see but definitely have more content coming your way and uh yeah lance i'm really glad we can carve out some time to talk about this it's been in the works for a little while uh it was well worth i think both of our time and uh yeah this was awesome man thanks for making the time yeah thanks a lot been a long time coming since we first saw the movie i think we both noticed it so there you go really good stuff all right that's it for myself i'm saying peace thank you for listening to movie homework a binge media production follow the binge media podcast network at binge media dot com patreon dot com slash binge media or wherever you get podcasts got a

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