The Horror Returns - THR Bonus Interview: Mind Body Spirit - An Interview With Directors Alex Henes & Matt Merenda

Episode Date: June 30, 2024

We sit down with the directors and co-writers of the new film Mind Body Spirit. Very special thanks for Welcome Villain Films for setting up this interview. Please continue to join us in supporting independent filmmaking. And as always, thanks for listening! The Horror Returns Website: https://thehorrorreturns.com THR YouTube Channel: https://youtube.com/@thehorrorreturnspodcast3277 THR Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thehorrorreturns THR Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thehorrorreturns/ Join THR Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1056143707851246 THR X: https://twitter.com/horror_returns?s=21&t=XKcrrOBZ7mzjwJY0ZJWrGA THR Instagram: https://instagram.com/thehorrorreturns?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y= THR TeePublic: https://www.teepublic.com/user/the-horror-returns SK8ER Nez Podcast Network: https://www.podbean.com/pu/pbblog-p3n57-c4166 E Society Spotify For Podcasters: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/esoc E Society YouTube Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UCliC6x_a7p3kTV_0LC4S10A Music By: Steve Carleton Of The Geekz

Regings victims, for those of you who delight and dread, who fantasize about fear, who glorify gore, welcome. You have found the place where the horror returns. Listeners beware. This podcast contains major plot spoilers. and the foulest of language. Join us in celebrating the old and the new, the best, and the worst in horror. Greetings, listeners.

Ah, that's the old school horror returns intro. We did years and years ago. It's back because we got a bonus episode. And this week, folks, we got a very special interview with Alex Heems and Matt Marenda. the writers and I think you guys wrote and directed or at least you were part of the writing we can get into that but uh look a lot of you guys have been sending us feedback so we know you you're either watching the film or you want to watch the film but like this is one of those indie movies that we've gotten a lot of feedback from so we're really happy to have you guys on here um we also want to shout out our thanks to nicky mcman with welcome villain films for getting this all set up uh Nikki it's greatly appreciated so um Alex and Matt, again, like I said, there's a lot of buzz. I mean, a lot of, you know, a lot of our listeners are like, man, that's, that looks really cool.

I can't wait to see this. And we reviewed the trailer, oh, I don't know, like a couple of months ago, because we have a little segment on the show called Trailer Park. Thanks, thanks for joining us. I really appreciate you guys making the time. Yeah, happy to be here. Thanks for having us. I'm happy to be here all the way from Berlin, almost dinner time, yeah. And on Skype, no less, right?

And on Skype, no less. All right. Well, we got a couple of questions, but, you know, feel free to add any stories or anything you guys want while we're talking. And we'll get this thing aired pretty quickly, as I know a lot of people want to hear it. So I guess we'll start out with a simple one. Like, how did you guys, like, meet up? And why did you decide to kind of share the directing credits on this? Like, what was the, what, how did that happen? We met at a trailer, a movie advertising company called Buda Jones. Alex worked as a copywriter and I worked as an editor. At an after hours, I think work gathering one night, we both kind of went up to one another and were like, we should make movies. We should convince our boss to pay for movies that we make. And long story short, that's what happened.

So we then, you know, we kind of discovered like that we went to the same. college that we had a lot of shared experiences. We had a lot of movie love in common, a lot of genre love in common. Eventually kind of went to our boss, Dan Asma, the executive producer of this film, and made a short with him. And then the idea for this movie came about, which we'll talk about. And we kind of went our own, the three of us went our own way and made mind, body, spirit. I want to note, because I've yet to note this on a podcast yet. that the first time that Matt and I really ever interacted with each other was at a company white elephant Christmas party. All right, as happens, right?

He picked my gift that I put into the pile, which was dinner. I got a steak dinner, like a glass of whiskey, foil wrapped it. It came with like a little menu, and I like taped it down on the inside of this box. And basically he had to like he opened the gift and pretty much had to sit. sit down in the corner of the room and eat an entire steak dinner by himself, which I still think is really funny. I'm not really sure if he got the joke at the time, but he definitely tucked into that steak dinner. He's not one to turn down. It was tasty. You came up to me after and we didn't know each other really well at the time. You came up to me after I opened it. You were

like, I'm so sorry. And I was like, this looks delicious. At least it wasn't that one from the big Texan that we have here in, or well, I'm in Florida now, but. lived in Texas and there's you guys ever heard of that restaurant the big texan it's free if you can finish it oh it's one of those 100 pound steaks yeah yes that would have been a totally different story right have a lifetime no not today all right cool well um so on this particular film like um i was gonna just ask like why you guys decided to go with the the pov kind of the found footage. I guess it kind of makes sense with the narrative of the story, but like, what is the story behind this film? Like, where did the idea come from? And, like, what got you guys motivated

to do this particular tale? I think it came from a sort of long-gestating desire to, like, to make a film within the constraints budgetarily that we knew that we were going to have, I think, which is kind of a strange place for a film to be born from. But, like, truly, I think we, the three of us, me and Matt and Dan had sort of been kicking around ideas and going like, well, what could we actually reasonably make with like on a low budget? Right around the pandemic, this movie called Host came out, which sort of. Yeah. It lived in that sort of Zoom seance screen like thing. And like, I think it really got all of our brains like sort of churning over. because it was like, here's this like 60 minute thing. It just feels like a full movie.

It's all about scaring you, but it does not, you know, overlook the dramatic narrative and the tension and the dynamics between these people. And we had been kicking around this sort of yoga horror idea for a while. A new genre, perhaps? A new genre. You know, that was like something, you know, that we were like, there's something really interesting with the body horror here. I'm a big, I practice a lot of online yoga, particularly with this woman named yoga with Adrian, who kind of served as the inspiration for this.

But I think having that sort of kernel of an idea and being really inspired by the sort of craftiness and resourcefulness of this small film and and generally the kind of films that were coming out during the pandemic you know i wouldn't call this a pandemic film but it's um that sort of scrappiness and that sort of like how do we work around these logistical issues um definitely inspired us uh to sort of meld those two things together and uh and i think got us sort of kick started on making this movie. Nice. Makes sense. So it was around 2020 that the idea, like, first formed?

I think so. And it was a long, a bit of a long road, like, through ideation, writing, filming, post-direction, because we were both working our full-time jobs the entire time. We were doing everything. So we did, and ironically, like, casting and pre-pro was a little easier because we did everything on Zoom or video calls. And it just enabled us to hop up, talk to people and be done. And casting, which is maybe another question we're going to get into,

it was like nice to see the actors perform on a screen because that's how the movie is going to play out. So it was like, can you hold us by yourself on a screen? Can you captivate us? Can your performance come through? So it ended up being this weird kind of boon in a way. Nice. All right.

Although I really love the direction that you guys went with the film with commenting on like the new media and like how, you know, there can be problematic issues with this quasi-fame or whatever. Things that come with anyone being able to create content now. It's like a totally different world. You don't have to have an agent or anything like that. But you're talking about the casting. Let's go into that. So Sarah's performance like really carried the film. So I thought when I saw the trailer, I thought it was just going to be her, like a one-person movie.

I do like what you guys did with bringing the little, I don't want to give too much away. She really carried the film. So, like, how did you guys find her? Were you all part of the casting on that? And, like, how did you meet this act? No, I mean, Sarah, I mean, I don't know what there is to say about her that we haven't already said. I mean, I just think she, we really kind of just lucked out with her. And, yeah, I think there, she, she all.

almost seems like she became so close to that character that it almost felt like a life imitating art imitating life sort of scenario i mean she really just like embodied that character and i think when we met her she was at a time in her life where she really kind of felt the way that character felt and i think over the course of the filming she really sort of like changed as a person uh for the veteran, like, kind of grew out of this version of herself. And it was, like, super powerful to watch that sort of transformation. And I think what is such a tribute to that is the performance you see on screen. I mean, she just transforms it. But she's also so she transfixes, too. I mean, she just has this quality to her where I remember the first time we looked at her audition tapes.

And, you know, obviously, you're supposed, you think like an audition. someone against a blank screen, you'd be locked in on them, but that's not always the case. Sometimes you're sort of just going like, you're skipping, you're jumping ahead. And I remember the first time I saw her, I was just very like taken aback. I felt I was immediately intrigued. And I think both of us knew that that sort of innate quality to her, that innate watchability and vulnerability that she just naturally brings to the screen. was something that we would need for this movie because she has a lot to chew on in this movie.

She has a lot of big monologues and scary moments and stuff. But it's like you have to be locked in on her even when she's just kind of like pouring a cup of tea or, you know, rifling through pages and these little like idiosyncratic moments that you still need to believe her and you still need to be in love with her and you still need to like want to root for her. and I think she... Yeah, the likeability. They inhabit those moments, too. Yeah, I think the thing she had, because the character on the page is like this mix of, you want to care about her,

but she's also pretty annoying. And there's a sort of perverse, like, you kind of want to just watch this whole, like, tragic arc of her downfall over the course of this 80 minutes, like, happen. Not to give anything really away, but in casting someone like, Sarah, it's like she counters that with a likeability, with a charisma, with a vulnerability that is like,

oh man, like, I'm like curious about what's going to happen next and not necessarily feeling bad about it, but I feel bad for her. And like she was able to do that. And I think also, in addition to what Alex said about her bringing so much of herself to it, like her technical precision on everything was perfect. Like we never had to redo a take. because she made a mistake. It was always like one of us gave a note wrong or the camera, you know, it was like the or a prop or something was on.

It was like she nailed everything. And that was an amazing experience for us to be able to purely be like, try it this way and play with it. Instead of having to kind of get a performance out of her, she brought everything, you know, from jump herself. Kind of lightning in a bottle, I would say. I mean, and you said like she hasn't been in a whole, whole lot, yeah, but we really hope that she, like, you know, blows up in the next, you know,

a couple of years. Yeah, a lot of charisma, a lot of charisma for sure. All right, well, so we, you guys kind of touched on it earlier that you had, you know, certainly had budget limitations. So, like, what were some of the ways you guys worked with that? Like, was there any, not to give away, you know, like the movie magic or anything like that? I particularly like that little seen that after she drank the tea from the herbs that she found, that was pretty cool, like visually speaking. So how did you guys pull some of these things off with the budget that you had to work with? Not without a lot of stress. I think, like Alex said earlier, like we went into it with that in mind, knowing that we had limited resources. And our goal was

to do a lot of the kind of design the effects or the scares or these, these, moments to do as much of them in camera as possible. Okay. And the scene you're referencing, like, is one of those scenes where, like, everything was done in camera in a single tape because we couldn't move the camera and we couldn't afford to do any sort of motion controlling or anything. And so our same photographer, Blake Horn, and our VFX supervisor, Fulvio, Cistido, like, kind of imagine this, like, if we get it all in one shot and don't move the camera and

Everyone's holding their breath. Then Sarah can essentially do one take, get up, run around the house, come back, do it again. And that was our day. That was our whole look, I think, for four or five hours of that one scene. And I think most of the effects are kind of done with that mentality of like, how can we get it in camera, a way where we can stitch the frame, do something simple, and make it, you know, hard on everyone on set, but easier in post-production, because that's where the money starts to really fly out the window.

All right. Makes sense. Anything else besides that scene? Like anything creative that you guys came up with under the constraints of the budget? Oh, I mean, yeah, there's one like really long sort of floating shot that goes to the house. That's like a real sort of flex shot. And we had to use literally every single light we had, plus some people's. phones.

There you go. There you go. Guerrilla filmmaking. Gorilla filmmaking, which is the most fun with things. And I think, like, you know, obviously there's parts of the film that I think we wish could have been more polished, but there's a certain sort of like DIY scrappiness to it that I think really endears itself to a lot of people. I think a lot of people are like, this looks dumb.

and you're like, okay, well, you'll never be happy. But I think a lot of people like the movie even more for having that sort of low budge cred, you know? Yeah, well, look, so if you guys had like an unlimited budget, right, like you got hired tomorrow and said, look, I'm giving you a billion dollars. What would be your dream project, like for each of you? Or have y'all talked together, like, we would both be interested in this project? Oh, that and I projects together but I don't know what the billion dollar one would be

I think we probably have one somewhere but we Right I was going to say like I saw that question And I was sort of like That's not what we Like doing or would want to do I think no no no Marvel movies huh

No no I think we I mean listen we'll sell out if people are going to give us a $5 paycheck for it but I think what our sweet spot would be ideally, what we'd like to get to is like this sort of $10 million creature feature kind of like we would, we love practical effects. We love that kind of like getting it in camera like real gritty kind of feel. And we love genre movies like be it horror or thriller. And I think that's what we want to do. And I think that again, like, sure, we'll take $20 million. We'll take $30 million.

But I think there's a point where you start to get out of this range of like the crafty sort of invention of limitations slips away. And that's like the most fun part of, like, one of the most fun parts of movie making to us is like that problem solving kind of like, you know, we have to do this in one take because we don't have the, you know, luxury of CGI or whatever. Or we, you know, we want to make sure that this has some sort of visual inventiveness to it that, that, feels tactile and real. And, you know, I think that's, I don't know, does that answer the question? Yeah, no, that's a great answer. I mean, but I do like the fact that you were willing to say you guys would sell out. So, you know, would you say a billion dollars?

So maybe 20, you know, $10 million movies. And then that's 800 mil to just for like a yacht. Sure. couple houses. We can play we can play poker against Jeff Bezos. There you go.

Yeah. All the things we've ever dreamed of hanging out with Jeff Bezos is so high on my list. Sure. All right. So look, Alex, Matt said something about horror and thriller genre.

Is that like what turns you on to? You like mostly that type of genre or more maybe drama or like what's your interest? I mean, interests lie, I think, somewhere between the worlds of horror and comedy. I think the two are extricably, like, linked with one another. I saw this really awesome interview with Jordan Peel, where he said the only difference between a horror movie and a comedy movie is the music. And it's

true, you go back and watch some scenes from his movies. You know, he was like, imagine, imagine the, the maintenance man running towards Daniel Kaluya. but with like Busby Berkeley music underneath. Sure. It's like there is something inherently funny and there's something that is just sort of like that sparked inside you when you're scared and when you're and when you're laughing,

you know, it's like there's those two things share a common space in us as people. And I think that's what I loved about getting to make this movie is that we kind of had the freedom to do, add some elements of humor and add some satire and work on the faces as some of our favorite satirists, you know, like Paul Verhoeven is a massive influence for us. I mean, obviously you can see Matt's Robocop poster very prominently in the background, but his ability to sort of tell his story and create like a really compelling piece of genre work, but also like infuse it with a with a sense of humor. I think I think if your

movie doesn't have a sense of humor, especially a horror movie, it can just become this really dreary affair. And I think that people even like, you know, the hereditary, I think is an incredibly funny movie. I think there's some some moments in that movie that are like the kitchen, you know, the kitchen table scene where she's like freaking out on everyone. It's like, is that not just like a super heightened version of like one of the worst family dinners you've ever had. You know, it's like it's, I think good horror specifically, like, allow space for people to laugh. And when it doesn't, it just can kind of feel like a punishment. Makes sense. Yeah. All right, cool. So Matt, all right. I had to ask you. I saw your IMDV page.

I did not find the film. But what's for this rubber ducky movie? man. It is, I think it's floating out on the internet somewhere. I gotta find it. That was a short that I made with another friend of mine from film school that was inspired by these Charmin, I think they were Charmin toilet paper ads where they just inanimate objects had an inner monologue in a bathroom. And speaking of horror and comedy, it kind of was born out of that.

And then it just spired out of control. And we were like, what if it was the entire life of this duck after he escaped the bathroom? But honestly, like Mind, Body Spirit, weirdly conceived not thinking about the pandemic, but then has all these shades of like, you're stuck here. What do you do? Feeling to it. But yeah, that was where that came from. Yeah, caught my attention when I was looking it up.

And Alex, you've got some experience doing things in the industry other than just, directing. I mean, are there some things like that really, you know, are you're particularly proud of or that was like this was a high point or something like that? Yeah, when I was 24, I was an assistant to a porn producer. No shit. For the first like year and a half that I lived in L.A. I got I got the job because I was the only PA willing to clean up a certain body fluids off the floor after the shoot was done. And I got an email saying, hey, we saw you out there wiping up to the, what I won't mention. You showed a lot of Hutzpah. Like, I think you should be my assistant. And that led to the most interesting year and a half of my entire life. I think there's

an alternate timeline where I just like kept working in porn because everyone was really friendly. Right. And the money was really good. and, you know, while movies are teetering on the brink, shout out inside out too, for bringing the box office back. Port will never die. Well, they're always... Oh, they'll always a demand, right? Oh, man. All right. Well, what are you... I don't know what to say after that one, man. This is the kind of stuff you're like, didn't expect to hear that in the interview, but that's why we do these, right? That's Hollywood, baby.

Holy shit. What are you guys plans moving forward? You have anything like in the works together or any projects that you're working on right now after this one? Yeah, we've got a new script that we've shot a sort of proof of concept short around it. And we're hoping to sort of package those two things together to anyone who might be interested. So if there are any people with deep, pockets who love horror films out there that are looking to invest you know where to find us and yeah so it's like a it's the film itself is a bit of um it's a sort of lives in the like a twilight zone sort of area it's like supernatural um it's uh what would you call what do we say the the big chill meets the thing yeah meets the twilight okay yeah it's like twilight zone So yeah, do with that what you will. But hopefully we'll be, you know, getting that ready and shooting that sometime this year. That would be a dream. Yeah, hopefully by the end of the year. Yeah.

Nice. Maybe we can get a lot of people together with like shallow pockets, you know. Maybe that's a dream, right? That's also a dream. And honestly, I love hearing that your fan base has sort of been so vocal to. to you guys about the film because we've gotten we've gotten such lovely feedback from people and and varied feedback um you know it's it's great it's great knowing that people are out there watching the movie it's like i think it's like a it's a strange little treat cool i mean all right so

this question this probably isn't y'all's side of the business as much as you know like nicky or or someone on that side but like are there any other plans for this film like streaming services, anything of that nature? Yeah, I think, you know, we, it's interesting kind of going through this process as first time filmmakers and seeing the distribution side of things. And like it's available now, like on, you know, to rent or to buy on Amazon or iTunes and whatnot. I think eventually it'll be available, you know, on other streaming services and it'll sort

of have this life for a while on. in the digital space. But yeah, it's sort of like, we're kind of being introduced to all this like, oh, this is the strategy behind that, or this is how this works and this is how releasing has changed because we both kind of came from the like, yeah, it'll be on VHS and DVD,

and then like you just buy it and that's the end of it, right? Right, right. So it's kind of a strange new world and it's constantly evolving as well. But it's fun because you're able to, like Alex said, connect with fans more and have people reach out to you directly and be like, I love this, which is really satisfying.

All right. So I think that's most of the main questions, but I've got like one final one, and this is a question that we ask of everybody. Oh, and by the way, we'll post all the links, listeners, so you can be sure to check out the film yourselves. And this is it. This is our last question we ask of everybody, and it's just real simple.

Are there any special causes, you know, charities, organizations, anything that's like near and dear to either of your hearts that, you know, you want to talk about? If so, how can our listeners get involved? Yeah, there's actually a place that a friend I met through Matt. She runs it in downtown L.A. If any of you guys live in L.A., it's a spot called the Hippie Kitchen. My wife and I have volunteered there a couple times, and it's just like a great organization.

They give out meals a few days a week, and they always need help in the kitchen. So if you're an Angelino and you feel like, doing some good. It's a good group of people and it's a great spot. Yeah. The hippie kitchen. Yeah. All right. Cool. Yeah, we have we have a lot of LA listeners and we have actually one co-host from the city. Oh, cool. So we'll get the word out for sure. Nice. I wasn't going to mention anything specific other than to say get involved in the arts and arts support and either locally or a little broader and empower that as much as you can in whatever your community is. Nice. All right. Well, guys, we appreciate it a lot. Looking forward to what you guys have to

bring to us next. And we'll have this show up probably, I don't know, two to three days. Just audio only. We might, you know, try to get a video feed out on YouTube. We don't do the YouTube stuff that much because always there's like when we're doing the recording, there's always somebody's kid in the background or a dog barking or you know something like that so we usually keep it audio only but we'll uh we really appreciate your time guys it's is good talking with you yeah thanks for having us lance appreciate it really great questions