The Horror Returns - THR - Ep. #320: Dead Ringers (1988) & Crimes Of The Future (2022)

Episode Date: July 10, 2022

SPOILER ALERT: Since there was absolutely no way to review Crimes of the future without spoilers, we play our alert just after trivia, so if you plan to see it, wait to listen to the second half our reviews until seeing the film! This week, we dive into a few David Cronenberg films with Dead Ringers and Crimes of the future. Joining us this week are Marcey and Bede from Super Network. Cool of the Week includes The Boys, Thor: Love and Thunder, The Night House, Peacemaker, Stranger Things and Scream 5. Trailers are Hypochondriac and Resurrection. The podcast spotlight shines on Scary Stuff. And we get feedback from Wraithsword, Kate Pollock, Xim Vader, Anthony Ybarra, Adam Thomas, Tim Davis, Jenn Nangle, Al Ramseur, Robert Ward, and Patrick C. Greene. Thanks for listening! The Horror Returns Website: https://thehorrorreturns.com THR Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thehorrorreturns THR Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thehorrorreturns/ Join THR Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1056143707851246 THR Twitter: https://twitter.com/horror_returns?s=21&t=XKcrrOBZ7mzjwJY0ZJWrGA THR Instagram: https://instagram.com/thehorrorreturns?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y= SK8ER Nez Podcast Network https://www.podbean.com/pu/pbblog-p3n57-c4166 ESP Anchor Feed: https://anchor.fm/mac-nez E Society YouTube Channel https://youtube.com/channel/UCliC6x_a7p3kTV_0LC4S10A Music By: Steve Carleton Of The Geekz  

This is Ethan Embry and you're listening to the horror returns. Greetings, victims. For those of you who delight and dread, who fantasize about fear, who glorify go. Welcome. You have found the place where the horror returns. Listeners beware.

This podcast contains major plot spoilers and the foulest of language. Join us in celebrating the old and the new, the best, and the worst in horror. All right, welcome back, everyone, to The Horror Returns. I'm Lance and with me as always are my co-host, Philip, Kevin, Brian. and from the land down under tonight, we've got the Super Network in the house, Marcy and Bede. What's going on, guys? Yo, yo.

Yo, we're back. Well, together this time. Yes, I actually made it, and Bede almost didn't make it, which is ironic. All right. Indeed. Go ahead, man. I was going to say, like, I literally did. just like woke up about half an hour before the show and my alarm did not go off.

So if I sound slightly croaky, that's why. Slightly. 10 in the morning over there, right? It is, but I thought I set my alarm. It clearly did not go off. And my body clock decided to like sleep in today, which is usually unusual. But yeah, so, but I'm here now. So we're, dude, we're glad you're here, man.

A big part of this show was for you. So we didn't want to start without you for sure. All right. We're going to go into Cool of the Week, but before we do that, I know you guys had a Stephen King book review recently, Marcy, you and Stephen. Yes. What else do you guys have coming up right now?

In terms of Stephen King or... The entire Super Network. Come on. Oh, of course. Well... Put it all out there. Yeah, this coming week, we have Transes 2 on the Tooby Tuesdays podcast, which I still don't know what was happening in that film, but us on the Tooby Tuesdays love full moon. And we love watching films in a series that are not the first one.

So it makes sense. That was Tim Tomerson, right? Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes, the awesome doll man, which was one of our earlier episodes. And this coming, I guess it's Thursday nights is when they release it over there and Friday mornings for us. We have the next episode of the Osloid cast.

And we actually, I mean, every episode we cover five films. But this week coming up, we actually finally have arrived at one of the biggest known osploitation films with Mad Max. So a very cool episode. Cool. Indeed, indeed. This is a slight bit of minor spoiler. One of us, because there's three of us on the episode, was not a fan of the movie, but we're going to let you all guess trying to figure out who that may be.

You have to listen. That's so big it almost doesn't count. I don't believe. But you'll have to understand. Definitely, definitely. This is the first one? Yes. Yeah, the first one.

Because it was the last one. I'd let that slide. I grew up with the first one. As long as we all love Thunderdome. Yeah. Oh, fuck, yeah, dude. There's not a bad Max I don't love. Speaking of Thunderdome, over here in America,

I don't know if they're having it this year, but they have that burning man. I'm sure you guys have heard of it. It's a big, huge, drunk, drug-fast, run around naked in the desert. My buddy goes all the time and they build a Thunderdome and they have fights in it. They really have fights in it? Yeah.

Well, it's just to play around, but it's built. It's a Thunderdome. He sent me a video one time, dude. It was crazy. I was like, oh, man, I would definitely go in that thing. But did they get Tina Turner or a Tina Turner impersonator? I don't know, but there was a big buff guy with a saxophone. Oh, Jesus Christ.

do the whole bust the deal spin the wheel thing? I have a lot. I just saw him fighting, so I don't know what was going on and yet. I've never been. I just seen videos. I don't feel like being out in the dirt for a week. So, yeah. If I'm going to be somewhere in the week, I'll be

in San Diego at Comic Con. And fingers crossed that I go. So we'll see. Be a good year for it. Is many of me still alive? I would like pay to have him go out by back. I think he passed. He passed away.

Ah, damn it. I met him too at a convention, which is even funnier. All that, all that, well, there's photo evidence to be out there with him, so if anyone wants to find us on my face. Yeah, but who's taller? Me or Vern Troia?

Obviously, Vern Troia. All right, guys. We'll keep the show moving. have a lot to cover. So, uh, cool of the week. Um, Bede, since you just got here, putting on your pants at the last minute and getting over your drug addiction and coming up with all these, uh, instruments for mutant women that you've got that you're grabbing out of the museum case. Uh, what's your cool of the week? Wait, wait, you guys are wearing pants.

Okay. Wait, this is pantless Sunday here on, uh, of the horror returns, uh, or at least for me, anyway, anyways, um, I've done you quite a lot. week but I guess in terms of my calls of the week yesterday I decided I was going to restock my Blu-ray cat that's because I have like 200 odd Blu-rays that I needed to put in my shelves I never even got to the shelving park no no no does don't do it but do you have this Jesus fucking Christ you with that movie man oh god that movie that movie that movie could we ever forget. But, yeah, so I didn't even get to the shelving part because I was basically like taking all the shrink wrap off everything, and that took about seven hours to do.

But in the meantime, though, well, I figured I need to watch something like while I'm doing this. So something, nothing too major, something I could put in the background. So I finally put on the documentary, In Search of Darkness, Part 2. Oh. which of course is the documentary, the follow-up documentary of the other film of the same name, that goes into 80s horror. So they go into a lot more other films that they didn't cover on the previous doco, like they go more into Italian horror, they even go into Australian horror,

and also come a lot more sort of undiscovered gems that were released in that period. And that entire doc is about four and a half hours long. So I watched it on the one sitting hours I was doing all my shelving. And it was a pretty fun and an entertaining watch. And also during the week, I watched another horror doco, which was

Woodlands Dark and Days Be Witch, which is the documentary on folk horror. That's a long one too. Yeah, that was about three to half hours long. And I watched that entirely of one city one night. But that was a really interesting one. But I would have to say my cool of the week

is a film that we're going to be talking about an actress who's in this later on in the show, and that of course is the film The Nighthouse starring Rebecca Hall. Oh, okay. Which I actually really dug a lot. Like, it's a really

interesting and unique spin on the Haunted House film and has deals with its own kind of unique sort of spin on grief. And also Rebecca Hall in it is just absolutely fantastic. And she just gives such an amazing performance in it. Like, it's a really good follow-up for David Brucker, who did The Ritual, like a few years back.

And I think he did a really good job with this one. And it's an interesting and unique spin on the ghost film genre. So it's definitely what I think everyone should check out if they haven't seen it. That's the one where they have, like, relationship issues and stuff, right? Well, he's... I think so, because the husband... Yeah. Yeah, because the husband's, yeah, the husband committed suicide at the beginning,

and then, of course, as the film goes on, you find out revelations of why that is. Oh, okay. And it's actually, yeah, because it's an interesting, like, yeah, it goes into some interesting places I was not expecting for a film of this type. And somebody actually made an interesting point, like what would make a good double feature with this. Even though they're two completely different films, but they do deal with certain little similarities between him is

the Lee Warnel Invisible Man. Ah, okay. So as a double feature with those two. So definitely check both those films out. But I do definitely recommend the Nighthouse. That would definitely be my cool of the week, for sure. All right. Good hit. Phil, I think it's on

HBO Max. Yeah, I scroll past it a couple times and I think I thought it was something else. So I'll check this one out. She was pretty good, in it, Rebecca. Yeah, I guess anyone else who does, if it's not on HBO Max, if you're in Australia, it's on Disney Plus so people can watch it there.

Everything's on Disney Plus over there, right? Kitty is actually. Pretty much. All right. In secret, Disney owns everything. Yeah, I know. I think even Freddie Got Fingered is on Disney Plus here Australia. All right.

Now we're talking about that. Then I could not finish. I don't believe you. Marcy, what's your cool? Yeah, look, my cool, cool z of the week, the season three finale of the boys, which was wow. The entire season was fantastic. I'm not going to spoil it, but yeah, if you haven't seen the boys at all, like binge see for three seasons, because it's so good.

Yeah, I got to get that one. Yeah, so good. You definitely do, Philip. You would fucking love it, dude. Because I've seen like season one. It's got you written all over it. And like a couple of episodes of season two, I think. And then I just kind of fell off of it.

Now you have to just get there. It's so good. It's such a great show. And I finally binge watched season one of Peacemaker, which I just thought was incredible. Nice. I absolutely loved it. I do want a sidekick eagle.

So I don't know how I'm going to manage it. that, seeing as we don't have bold eagles in this country, but I'll work it out. And my final call of the week, which is kind of, I don't know, I think it's kind of lame, but whatever, I recently started streaming myself gaming on Twitch with like older games, and I decided I was going to conquer the MS DOS game Commander Keene number four. And I've never been able to do it as a kid. I couldn't finish the game, but after two trip, on two different Twitch streams, I completed the game and I felt so just complete in life.

So very happy. That is a definite, you're talking about super old school games, MS DOS. And then I'm going to knock my cool out of the week quick It's the boys episode one of season three Because that's all that I've gotten to But Philip This show's got you written all over it

Trust me You love peacemaker, right? Oh yeah, I love peace maker, right? Oh yeah, it's his peacemaker on acid All right All right Yeah, I'll have to catch up with it Who's next?

Well, I'll go, I've been talking I just watched Thor Love and Thunder. And so that's definitely going to be my cool of the week. It's not as good as Ragnarok. The jokes maybe aren't quite as funny.

And there's a lot of them. They play up the comic angle. As a matter of fact, at the beginning of the movie, I mean, you know, I'm not going to spoil anything, but at the beginning of the movie, Chris Hemsworth was almost like

that Chris Hemsworth from Ghostbusters. Oh, no. Bumping, huh? Fucking stupid, man. But then they sort of weed all that out and it's still a really good time.

Feel good movie, man. I like it. It's a lot of fun. Yeah. And look, I know it's stupid and this isn't really a spoiler, but those goats every time made me laugh. That's in the trailer.

That's in the trailer. I know. It was a stupid joke and they just kept running with it and I kind of appreciate that they took it as far as they did. Because they could have done it once and just left it alone and it would have been great.

But it was like the Peter Griffin Roland on the floor thing. Yeah. He just keeps going until it's funny again. And I think special props to Russell Crow's accent with whatever the hell he was doing. That was bloody hilarious. That was fantastic.

He was kind of awesome. I don't know what type of Greek accent he was going for with that. I appreciate it because it was just so hilariously over the top. Yeah. Did he just lose his What was his name of Gladiator? Maxima. Oh, Maxx.

Did he just lose that body? Oh, yeah, no, he's not getting that back. That was 20, 30 years ago. He was big and unhinged in that one movie when he was, his son was gay. Oh, boy, it riced. Yeah, I mean, I was like, damn, what happened to him? He got all big. Oh, you're good.

I think he's just happy being a big man. Yeah. He was having the best time playing Zeus with that ridiculous accent. It was it was non-angry Russell Crow, which is nice to see everyone. That's rare. Yeah, that's rare. He was very much into the orgies. Yeah, he was.

Right. That he is. All right. We're moving on from that. Nez, you want to go next? Because Brian always saves his Amityville update for us. I finally finished or I finally sat down and watched Stranger Things. I didn't know they split it in half.

I just, it was done so I went through. I didn't know much about it. It was, did everyone see it? No, not the finale. I've seen episode eight, or I've seen the second to last, the pen ultimate. It was just poltergeist dream war. his rip-off, but I mean, it was still good. I loved it.

But yeah, it was good. It was a good season. I really loved the last season when they were in the mall and all that. But this season, they just took it up another notch with all the, it was a little more gory and bloody and everything. So I thought that was really sweet. I like the new characters that they brought in. I thought that was good. I thought this was it. I had no idea that they were going to do a season five.

So that was a good ending for what's to come. It's already out there. Everybody already knows. But overall the whole thing, though, that was awesome. That was awesome. But for those of you that don't know, Master Puppets actually came out like maybe two weeks before. Oh, leave it. Leave it to Nez.

He, Eddie was awesome. He was just no internet. No internet. There was no internet. no tabletures, anything. Wasn't even in the guitar magazines yet. So there's no way he would have known, huh? If he just had a really good ear for music, there is guitar pros out there that can do that.

But I didn't know there was electricity in the upside down, but I don't know. It doesn't matter at that point. It was awesome. Yeah, it was really cool. I really love that Robert Trujillo's son was he played Eddie when the camera zoomed in when he was doing the solo. That was Robert Trejillo's son, the bass player from Metallica. So I thought that was pretty sweet. But overall, the whole series, the whole season was amazing.

I definitely want to watch it again. I know vans put out a limited series of Stranger Things vans, and I want the slip-on ones that have the Hellfire stuff on it, so I want to get those. But the last thing, I got this when I was a Texas Frightmare, and I was in the mood to watch it, and the, um, the Arrow version of American War Wolf in London.

Oh, wow. Nice. This is the, it's the 4K one. It's got the, the 4K film and a booklet and a poster and I, that came,

but I didn't know it was 4K only. I usually the 4Ks that I buy have a, a Blu-ray in it. This is just 4K. So I was like, son of, I don't have a 4K player, so, but seriously? No, I don't have one yet. Anybody would.

Keep those Patreon dollars coming, folks. They're like a billion dollars. E-society! E-society! Yeah, we need to start one of those. But it's really cool. I mean, I love this movie. I ended up watching it on Hulu or whatever it was last night.

But I am a huge arrow collector, so I kind of buy whatever, not all of it that comes out, but the ones that I love. And I thought this was really cool packaging and everything. I was just bummed that there was no Blu-ray in it. But I guess it kicked me in the butt to get a 4K player. But yeah,

yeah, Stranger Things in this little unboxing I did for American Welf from London. Cool. All right, bring us home, Brian. You're muted, Bill. Oh, yeah. Yep.

There we go. Nope, now it's muted again. Now he's unmuted. Am I unmuted now? Yes. Okay, cool. Well, I didn't watch anything new. I just did a bunch of rewatches.

That's good. Me and my daughter rewatched the new screen. And she was actually pointing new stuff out that I didn't catch. Like that one guy that got killed, the kind of older bully guy, Vince or whatever, that's Stu's nephew. Oh, shit. I had no idea the guy that got it with his own car?

Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I had no idea. She's pointing out like little stuff that I didn't catch. Fucking, hey, dude. That's awesome. I watched it with the grandkids this week, Brian. I saw that. And I figured since she liked Scream,

I was telling her about the people that directed, directed another one of our favorites on the show is Ready or Not. So showed her Ready or Not. She enjoyed it. Yeah. Great movie. And we're going to get to Stranger Things next because I got shamed. because she thought I'd seen it by now, but I haven't watched anything, and she's already seen the season twice.

Oh, yeah. But that's it. So what do you think? Scream 5 then? Yeah, Scream 5, 2022, whatever they call it. Right. All right. All right.

Well, that's cool of the week. Brian, you got any headlines for us this week? Yeah. I thought we'd start with. I even put it down. I didn't put down the date that it's coming out, but a movie that we've all talked about on here. Some of us like it.

Some of us don't. It's getting a Blu-ray release. And that's George Romero's amusement. Whatever the cards are called. Why? Why bother? Blu-ray's going to kill it, man. I never seen it yet, so. Oh, Jesus, dude, you're not missing a fucking thing.

It's like 20 minutes long. I have, what is it on? Or do I got a shutter. It's a shutter release. Have you seen it, Babe? I don't know if you want to hear Bees, uh, thoughts. What's it called? The amusement park.

He thought it was genius. Well, I'll say this about the amusement park. It was one of my number, it was my number one horror film from last year. And also in my top ten of last year, too. What about you, Marcy? It's a commercial. Um, I thought it was okay.

Like I understood like where it was what it was, what the point was. And it's, I think it was a little maybe too on the nose, but I'm like, I kind of applaud Romero for like, you know, this church or whatever. Gay, you know, funded this thing. And he's like, yeah, fuck that. I'm making my own shit. Jesus. It was an artsy public service announcement. Yeah, basically.

Was that the first thing he ever did? What's the story? No, I think he did it like at least just before. I'm trying to think like the timeline of that movie because I think he might have made it sometime after Night of the Living Dead. But I'm not sure if it was like, I don't look it up because I'm kind of curious now when he actually made that film.

But I know it was like one of his very early works, but I know for a fact that, like, I don't know if this is going to be on. the Blu-ray or not, but I know the George A. Romero, like, people, like the people who are actually working on

like doing restorations on all his early work. Like, not in terms of, like, his feature films, but a lot of his short films, documentaries, and I think I've heard rumours that there might be, those might be coming out on Blu-ray very soon.

I don't know if it'll be part of this Blu-ray or it'll be part of like its own little box set and that. So I'm not exactly sure, but I'm very excited to pick this movie up because this came out after the crazies. He had did the counts and then did this. I like the crazies, but this, I'm glad you got it been. Kind of like the entire world versus me on the black phone here. Well, I'll say this.

It is better than the 2019 Black Christmas Reefat. back in terms of Yes. There you go. Facts. No, no. Put it back. Put it back.

He's got to show it. He's going to show it now. This is going to be our first TikTok, guys. All right. That blue ray is coming out on the 17th of September, or the 13th of September.

Must buy. Must buy for me. Must be a Friday. Must be a Friday if it's the 13th. All right. TV news. Anybody watching Evil on Paramount Plus? I want to start it, dude.

It looks, the trailer really intrigued me. I watched the first episode. It's all right. It's called Evil? Evil. Yeah, wasn't it just a network show at first, Brian? Yeah, it was CBS. Then they were starting to bring everything over to Paramount Plus,

and it's like an exclusive now, and it's like one of their big hits. and it is season three had just came out a couple weeks ago I believe and season four is season four has already been renewed damn yeah now I gotta catch up on that one too

yeah too much shit to watch only first I recognized and it was Luke Cage yeah I've seen the I think the first half of season one it's pretty good it's pretty good I just you know there's so much going going on TV that you just kind of lose track

of everything Brian did I ever tell you I keep a sticky note on my computer at work of every TV series I need to watch and I cross it through when I get through that series. And then I have to do a new sticky note like every two weeks. I should probably do that. I've probably seen every first episode of every new show. Right. You lose niz?

Temporarily. Well, let's say, well, he'll be back. He'll be back. All right. Another show that got renewed for another season is the last drive-in. with Joe Bob Briggs for new four fifth season. Okay, cool. As well it should be.

Yeah. Always fun. We reviewed this trailer a couple weeks ago of the Barbarian or Barbarian. Yes. With Bill Scarsguard, it's getting a slight delay in release moving to September 9th. So not that bad. Yeah. Other release dates announced, Dune Part 2 is coming out November 17.

2023. Thanksgiving movie. The sequel to Ghostbusters Afterlife gets the December 20th, 20th, 23 release date. Nice. Godzilla versus Kong. March 15th,

2024. Don't say when you're the only one that liked it. He came on stream fiends and did that with us, and he loved it, so don't listen to him. Didn't we already do this? What is Godzilla versus Kong, too? Yeah.

All right. Shortly after Terror Fire 2 comes out in theater, it is coming to Screenbox. It's going to stream there exclusively this fall. Anybody got Screenbox? I think we even have that in Australia. Yeah, they put, as far as movies, I think their show selections a little bit better. They got Toxic. They just today release Toxic Crusaders, the animated.

Toxic Avengers show. Oh, yeah. Freddy's Nightmares, Masters of Horrors TV series. Oh, that was always good. Not as good as the podcasters of horror, though. Yeah. I was going to say.

I don't know those people. And finally hasn't been confirmed, but the rumor is a psychological thriller apartment 7A that just finished. rap filming is actually a Rosemary's Baby

prequel. Oh, yeah. I saw some rumors on that. Looks interesting. Because I think somebody said they went through the cast list in some of the last names of some characters are the last names from

the people in Rosemary's Baby. Okay. Maybe we'll get some behind the scenes on the satanic cult. Yeah, I would just, you know, those older people were kind of wacky, so I would, uh, especially, uh, the

main older couple that was always coming over. We'll kind of like to see more of that. Okay. Yeah, I think it's interesting. I'm kind of very curious to see it because I think the director of a Natalie, Erica and Jay, she also did, uh, the film Relic, which was a really good. Yeah.

And it's kind of funny with, it's funny you're bringing this up now, right? Because like, while I was doing my shelving, When I stopped watching In Search of Darkness, I watched the Curse 2 episode of Roseberry's Baby. So that was a really interesting watch as well. And it's kind of funny that we're bringing the possible prequel up right now. Yeah, so many connections they brought up in that episode.

Oh, yeah. And that's all the news I have right now. All right. That means I tried to sneak them in there, but this is all you guys then. I did not get a chance to see the trailers. But fear not, because Brian is going to bring us the big, the small, and sometimes the very, very weird. Brian, what's our first new trailer tonight? The first one is a new film from XYZ films called HyperCondriac.

Synopsis is a young Potter's life devolves into chaos. as he loses function of his body while being haunted by the physical manifestations of his childhood trauma. This star is Zach Vila, Devin Gray. You can watch trailer now, Lance. Madeline Zima. Like Harry Potter? No, he's a potter. I think we're going to break Lance.

On mute. This is... This is written and directed by Addison Hyman. I think. We'll go with that. That's funny. We'll go with Marcy first. Yeah, I hadn't even heard of this until you guys sent through the trailers to watch for the podcast prep.

And I was like genuinely like, wow, this is, I mean, I have no idea what's going on, but it looks very intriguing and very psychological, which I always like with my horror. So yeah, it's definitely got my attention. I can kind of relate to the aspect of, I'm clearly unwell, but then doctors being like, nah, it's all in your head, and I'm like, I'm gonna freaking punch you in the face. Yeah, I kind of agree with that. You know, there's times I've been to the doctor

and I'm telling them, I'm not here to be here. I don't feel good. And they're like, well, we can't find anything wrong with you. Yeah, only took me like, I don't know, 15 years for a diagnosis, but yeah, sure, you're doing so good, doctors. I literally watched this as we were recording. Looks really interesting. Like, I wasn't sure what to expect, but I think it does have a lot of really interesting and creepy imagery throughout. And the fact that it sort of dives into mental illness and a kind of a unique way is very intriguing.

to me. And also, like, I was kind of, like, kind of shocked at first because I saw Natalie Zima, who played the daughter in The Daddy in the car. So I saw her, it's like, oh, it's a little girlfriend, the daddy. And so that may be even more intrigued to check out. But I'll definitely watch this for sure. It looks good. Well, yeah, I think it definitely looks interesting. It looks like they've got some good imagery and stuff going on, special effects and things like, where he has like some scars that pop up on his skin and stuff, they look pretty good. I like it, man. I'll watch this.

I'm sure it's got a very metaphorical thing going on from like childhood trauma sneaking back up on him into later life and stuff, which is always cool. I like it when they have a message. It's relatively clear. plants I'm like what the fuck did I just watch man yeah this looks fucking amazing man yeah it's like a demon or what what's what's that sneaking up on him or is there anything it's his trauma obviously

yeah they do mention in the trailer that his his mother had mental illness and maybe he inherited something maybe he's just creating everything himself or yeah like pottery Like the idea of creating pottery, right? And I'm thinking you were talking about Harry Potter. I know, Ed, like, when he said it, I was like, What the fuck is a Potter?

And Harry Potter. The last thing I thought about is actually making pottery. But it was prominently displayed in the film, Ghost. So there is that. You know what, pottery doesn't get enough stuff. It's modern movies. Street, Chris. Maybe this will be the film that brings pottery back into the military.

That's going to be it. Yes. It's so great. Started here. Yes. All right. This is getting a July 29th release date in theaters and VOD. No, VOD on August 4.

So you can't make it to the theaters. Just wait a few days. Next one. actress was in Beads Cool the Week Rebecca Hall Resurrection, new one from IFC films.

Quick synopsis, Margaret's life is in order. She is capable, discipline, and successful. Everything is under control. That is until David returns, carrying with him the horrors of Margaret's past.

Of course, like I said, Rebecca Hall is in this, along with Tim Roth, and this has written I'm not making up these last names like the Hyman thing. This is directed and written by Andrew Seaman.

So... And Andy Ballsack. Phil, what'd you think of resurrection? I don't understand what's going on, which is not necessarily a bad thing. I kind of hate when they give away the whole. plot in the in the movie especially on something like this where I'm sure you're trying to figure it out the whole time but I like that type of movie and you know Rebecca Hall's awesome so

yeah I mean I dug it you know the whole her life's in order and going everything's all cool and everything and then she sees somebody from her past that clearly was was not a good person but it kind of made me think that maybe she's just not or just not or just just thinking this is this person? Maybe it's not this person. I hope it gets into the whole psychological thriller aspect of it. They definitely put that out there as a possibility that it's not, this is not who you think it is type thing. It wasn't an awesome trailer, but I bet the movie's going to be better than the trailer is. Let's hope so. IFC has really never done us wrong, right? I mean, I can't think of anything from IFC films that I haven't at least enjoyed watching.

I mean, they're big on slow burns, which is not, which I love. I'm an old dude, man. I live through the 70s. I love the slow burn. Marcy. Yeah, I would give it a go, if I remember. I mean, Rebecca Hall, like, yeah, I'll watch anything she does. She's awesome.

But yeah, it definitely sort of leaves you like, what the hell's going on? And yeah, hopefully it's like kind of, yeah, like a slow burn psychological thriller, I think that'd be pretty cool. But I guess we'll see. So, yeah, if I remember to watch it, I will. Yeah, I just really hope they really get into the psychological part, because there's a scene where she's, like, holding a gun, but then there's another scene where she's not pointing a gun. She's doing the finger gun thing. I saw that. I don't know. It's actually a banana. I'm really interested to check it out as well. I know a few people who saw this as part of our the Sundance Film Festival and they had nothing but raves for it. So I'm definitely intrigued to check it out.

And I think the only thing I could gather from their thoughts is that there's a lot more going on in the story like when you read the synopsis. So definitely intrigued to check it out. And the fact that I think it is going to feeders, but I think Shutter is going to play it later on in the year as well. So we have no excuse not to watch it on there, Marcy, if it does come to Australia, why that means. sure

yeah uh august 5th release also be able to theater same day and like beat said uh on shutter um usually they go probably like a couple of months after it's release so sometime in the fall I would say

nice before the end of the year then yeah this is going to be a tough year for me guys on the on the top half bottom half well actually bottom half's going to be really tough because I haven't seen too many movies I've hated this year. Even stuff that everybody's shipping on, I haven't hated. Well, we know black phone's not going to be on your bottom list. It probably will, dude.

It's not. You made a mistake on that one. It's getting another watch. I guarantee you. In a quiet, no fucking kids in the theater bullshit. Just quiet setting, it's getting another viewing. But I don't think it's going to creep out of the bottom 10 unless something really really comes along into 31 days.

But I don't know. We'll see. They usually, that's where they usually come from. That's where they pop up, like zits. All right. That's the last trailer. All right. Let's get through some listener feedback. This week, the podcast spotlight shines on Scary Stuff Podcast.

Horror movie, Deep Dives, Discussion and Dissection. This week's topic is Doug Jules. Jones Day 3. Nice. If anybody deserves three episodes, it's that guy.

There you go. For this year's Doug Jones episode, we're discussing 1993's Hocus Pocus. We're in Doug Jones plays

Billy Butcherson in one of his earliest roles. Check out. All right. That'll be fun. Yeah. Listen to the

episode, a lot of fun facts about Doug Jones. All right. Which, hold on, which one is this guys? I'm going to download it a quick. Scary stuff podcast.

Got it. Thank you. Doug Jones, day three. And regarding the bad seed returns, I didn't know that was a thing. Are you fucking kidding? Rayth Sword says

our favorite super psychotic. Is it still got a, what's this not in it? Macaulay Culkin? Probably. I've never heard of it. Brian, you know anything about this one? Isn't it a remake of a sequel to a remake, right?

A sequel to a remake? Yeah, well, Rob Lowe, I believe, starred in the remake of it. And the actress who plays the lead, like the psychotic little girl, she's the same girl from Ghostbusters' afterlife as well. Oh. Yeah. And I think I read she, she's one of the co-producers and helped write the script. So she's kind of.

She's totally 50s, sorry. Yeah, she's kind of branching out. Wow. Keep an eye on her, man. She's going to be a big name. McKenna Grace. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

All right. I'm going to check. Regarding Destination 180, Kanju 37 says, love the name and the artwork. And D-180 replied to us and said thank you. So, Destination 180. Is that a movie? That's the podcast.

Podcast. Yeah, it was our shout-out last week. Oh, right. Remember the hottie, AJ, and I was concerned with it. That's right. Sorry, guys. I'm an idiot. They expose themselves. Canju 37, that's Kate Pollock from...

Oh, yes. everybody loves everybody loves Kate right Marcy sure no if you guys haven't listened to eternal darkness of not so

spotless minds definitely give it oh okay I got you guys will enjoy it it's a British yeah British podcast yeah I've seen I've seen you guys share the stuff

and keep meaning to give it a listen and then in Marcy fashion I forget so Matt's been on here a bunch of times and still trying to get Kate on here. Well, I'm not helping. Regarding the new Pretty Little Liar Show, Zim Vader says Allison May Ferguson.

What am I doing with that? I have no idea. I don't know. I'm not a pretty little liar's fan. My wife could probably tell you. Well, I think I'd never watch the show, but I think this new series or spinoff, I think it's supposed to be like a slasher themed.

Huh. It's the only reason I posted it. Oh, okay. You might watch it. I mean, my wife loved the original series, so I'm sure she'll watch it. Regarding Relic, Anthony Baris says, Doug this one. Yeah, man, it was a good movie. Beat, you were talking about Relic, weren't you?

I was. That is a good movie, so definitely check it out. If people haven't seen it. That one's in my blind spot. Maybe I'll check it out for 31 days this year. Yes. And it's also an Aussie movie as well. And regarding this week's Cronenberg films, Adam Thomas says, I love both damn shits.

Okay. Just like that. All right. So Adam Thomas is a Cronenberg guy. Appreciate it, man. Tim Davis says, much love guys. Jim Nangle says, thanks for sharing. Regarding the poster, before we found something, Tim Davis also said this post.

poster looks familiar. We found something. Yeah, I'm not going to say the movie studio, but it seems to be a theme in the way all their movie posters look. Oh, I gotcha. Asylum, maybe, Brian, or what?

No, their posters are a little bit better than that. Okay. Zim Vader, talking about our sinister podcast, says, this is pretty good. I found sinister boring, but your review was

still an interesting listen. As for Black Phone, I think you've talked me into giving it a go. Lance, I thought you liked it. Apparently, that's the theme tonight, Brian. We'll see on second viewing. We'll see. I'm keeping my mind open.

Regarding the poster for He's Watching, Zim Vader says also the new poster for he's giving out blow jobs. I'm going to have to go look at the poster now. Zim also said he left a Spotify review, but Lance was unable to find it anywhere. Yeah, help us out, man. You can leave Spotify reviews or right?

Apparently, yeah. Hey. Al Ram Sour says, the last duel is my top five this year. So long, so good. I like the last duel. I like the way they did it. A decent movie. Yeah.

Also, Al posted a pick of him and the new horror returns tank top and in the group. So thanks, Al, for all your support. Yeah, thanks, Al. Can't wait to get you on the show, ma'am. Or if you don't want to be on, we'll just cover your picks. Did I send those to you, Brian? Mm-hmm. Nice, all right.

Hey, cool. It's coming. Just like Bede, it's coming. By now, but later on. Anyways, I'm recording Scream 5. Robert Ward says, I watched it for the first time a couple weeks ago

and was a little shocked to see Dylan Minette in it. A co-worker is a fan of his band Wallows and introduced me to them a couple of months ago. Oh, my current plan is attending Lollapalooza for the first time at the end of the month and to catch them on Saturday. Oh, nice. Cancel that Lollapaloo's a ticket and go to Burning Man, fight in the cage. Or come to Texas Sprite Mayor, because we're definitely all going next year.

Oh, yeah, absolutely. Period. End of story, non-negotiable. And Rob Zombie and Mudvane is still up in the air, Brian, but you don't know about that. It's a big Texas heat. And we got an email from Patrick C. Green. says, hello and good day. Under Wicked Sky, an apocalyptic horror novel from Patrick C. Green is now available on Amazon at Amazon.com. Under Wicked Sky, ebook, Green, Patrick C.

Patrick is available for interviews and guest appearances on podcasts and YouTube channels. Oh, let's check out the book. There you go. The sky, yeah. That makes more sense because I started reading it like that's how he was talking. And I was like, oh, right? One of these guys. I thought somebody sent us a poem for a second.

I think he's already sent us a free copy, guys, to read. Oh, you see. Yeah. So we got two podcast networks together here. So timing might be good on this one, Mr. Green. There it is. Check it out. And, of course, our show intro comes from Steve Carlton of the Geeks.

Our artwork comes from Natsulani. If you'd like to help the show out, please consider becoming a Patreon patron. We'll let you pick the movies for a future show at any amount. And for $5 or more a month, also pick a commentary for a future bonus show. And if you have a chance, please give us a five-star Apple Podcast review. That would be awesome. And we'll move on to our featured attractions. This week, we're going to check out some body horror.

Dead ringers and the brand new crimes of the future. I'm very curious to see what you guys thought about these. We'll start with dead ringers. Twin gynecologists take full advantage of the fact that nobody can tell them apart until their relationship begins to deteriorate over a woman. Director David Cronenberg, also known for Crash and playing a major role in the new Star Trek Discovery. Lance definitely wrote this.

Writers are, of course, David Krodenberg with Norman Snyder and Barry Wood. Not Barry White? Wrong one. The shots of the twins on screen together were accomplished through one of the first uses of computer-controlled moving mat photography. Robert De Niro turned down the mantle twins role because he felt uncomfortable playing a gynecologist. That would have been a whole different film, right, guys? Don't even fucking worry about how fucking psychotic they are. The fact that they're a gynecologist on top of that does make it really weird.

All right, Marcy, you want to start us off with Dead Ringers? What do you think? Dead Ringers. The film where Jeremy Irons plays twin gynecologists. Weird rapy guys. I mean, it's a, it's not like, how do I even like explain? Like, Cronenberg is probably weird. One of if, yeah, maybe like my second favorite, like, filmmaker behind David Lynch.

Because I like, I like things that really, I don't know, I could say go off the rails, but I want things that make you think that are not the usual. So. Yeah, it's definitely different. Yeah. So obviously, I have a lot of love for the films of David Cronenberg. And Dead Ringers, I think, doesn't actually get talked about as much as other films. Someone's got a plane flying through somewhere. Yeah, like if you, you know, when people generally talk about David Kroenberg,

Dead Ringers isn't one that comes up a lot. And I think it's almost a shame because it is a really, like it's a fantastic film. But it really delves into a lot of different themes and subjects. Like on the surface, yeah, okay, it's about these twin. gynecologists who almost feel like they're the one person with, you could almost look at it like a Jekyll and Hyde type of thing. But they're, in reality, they're not, they're two different people. And it's kind of this, almost this descent into,

you could say it's a descent into madness in a way. But it's like, it's this interesting like duality of, I guess, of like the human psyche. if you can put it that way. They're very strange individuals. I feel like they're very obsessed with the inner workings of the human body rather than anything else.

And the mutations that they kind of bring up here and there and the weird tools that I think it's Beverly ends up making, I think, kind of go into that. And a lot of that imagery is very Kronerbergy and we kind of see that same sort of weird imagery in crimes of the future, which you can generally find in a lot of Cronenberg. But it's kind of like this, it's almost like this weird. You could almost look at this like a relationship with like an abuser.

You know it's not good for you. It's very wrong. And there are parts where you almost can't let go of this toxic. thing in your life. And that's kind of the relationship between the two brothers. And like by the end, it's, it's almost like there, it's coming a time where they probably do need to actually separate from each other's lives, but they're unable to. And in the end, they just almost want to become the one thing. But I probably cannot articulate this as well as anyone else. I'm very bad at doing that. but I think it is a really interesting, fascinating, and really well done film.

Like, you really feel like Jeremy Irons is two different people. Oh, yeah. Those performances are so different. And I guess the way they kind of filmed it and the way he went about the performance actually works, that you feel like it's two different people. And it's really beneficial. And I could not really picture anybody else but Jeremy Irons because he's just that kind of actor. He really embodies what he plays. But it's still very weird and I think it could definitely

miss the mark with a lot of people, but with Kronenberg, you don't look at his work on a surface level. There's so many layers of what's going on. And dead ringers, I don't think you can even get the full picture just by one watch. You definitely need to watch it a few times. And I actually didn't realize until last night just doing a little bit of research that it was kind of based or sort of, I guess, inspired by two real life twin doctors. And there was, I think, a book written about it. And that was kind of very interesting and fascinating as well. But what about you guys? Bid, you want to jump in? Well, I mean, David Kronberg is one of those filmmakers that, first of my son, watching his work.

Like, obviously, like, a lot of people I saw the fly first. And then watching his later work, I was kind of iffy about because there were some things I liked and other things I didn't like. But the sort of the older I get, the more I'm more appreciative of his work. And like Marcy said, he's a filmmaker that definitely does a lot of things with his films that are under the surface. Like there's a lot of interesting sort of themes that he explores depending on whatever film he tackles. And Den Briggers is definitely no exception. I mean, I watched this film for the first time years ago, and I really liked that. And rewatching it again, sorry, my friend, it's a bit choky.

I appreciate it even more. You sound like Vigo in the next movie we're going to watch. Anyways. But I appreciate it. But watching it again in prep for this episode, like I definitely appreciated it even more so. Like I think the performance from Jeremy Irons as both Beverly and Elliot is fantastic. Like even though these two characters are identical in every single way,

they definitely do have very different personalities. And I love the fact that Irons, it plays it very subtle and how their personalities are different. Like, Beverly is obviously a very shy character, while, you know, Elliot is a much more outgoing character, is more confident. And once this Genevieve Bajor comes into the picture, that's when kind of everything changes and kind of changes their whole world. Because these two characters, even though they're twins, they're so interlocked with each other because they want to share the same experiences

because that's just how they just sort of roll as twins. So even when the character of Bev kind of starts to become a drug addict, like in Elliot's mind, the only way he can fix him is not only get Bev to detox, but also become a drug addict himself to get them down to a level where they're exactly the same, because if one goes top to Toby, the other one that does it and vice versa. And I think it's beautifully filled. Like, it's a very sort of slow-paced film, but I think it reels you in with the performances and with the story.

And I guess it's not for body horror, but when it does pop up during the film, it is very unsettling and disturbing and also just going into that world of being a gynecologist. And being crazy. That's a film, which kind of feels a program given the profession. Right. Yeah, sorry.

No, no, not worry. You're frozen. You're good. You just froze, yeah. I froze. I was frozen today. But like I was saying, being that in this world, it would be gynecologist,

I like that the film fans just kind of very sort of sterile kind of look, as it would be if you were in a hospital or a doctor's office. Like everything just felt so clean and clinical. Yeah, but what they also do is, like, when they do sort of the surgery, they're in these red like outfits which is weird

it's really weird it makes it even more unsettling is that not what surgeons wear in Canada I mean that's what I wanted to find out because they have the and I'm thinking like

oh this is just something David Kronenberg did but then I remember when the Sosker assistants did their remake of Kronenberg's rabbit they also had doctors wearing the exact same But that might have been a shoutout. Yeah, that could have been a shoutout.

So I've got to curious, like, if this is something that Canadian doctors actually do or not, but I can't find anything about it. But I'm assuming, yeah, Kronberg made it up. But like you say, Rossi, it's, yeah, having them in these bright red, sort of an odd-looking surgical attire, definitely feels very contrast to the sterile and almost great look of the film. And, yeah, I think it's also. like it's beautifully directed, very well acted, and also it's just a very compelling film. Like, again, it's a very slow-paced film, so it won't be for everyone.

But it's one that if you go with it, it just kind of just reels you in. And of course, it's just, you know, on the back of, you know, an amazing performance by Jeremy Ions, who's definitely he's one of the best kind of twin performances in a film. And he's just great here. I definitely would say. Eddie Murphy, huh? In the nutty professor in Norbert. To be fair, Eddie Murphy was playing multiple characters and not actually.

Actually, yeah, he was playing two characters and were the same person. But anyways, but it's definitely up there. But, yeah, I really like this film a lot. It's definitely one of my personal favorite Cronerberg films for me. All right. We're not going to bring up Eddie Murphy and Bowfinger? Well, that's her, yes. Oh, man.

I forgot all about Bofinger. Brian, coming to America. Try the soup. Brian, what did you think about dead ringers? This was actually my first watch. And I do agree, Marcy. I think this takes multiple watches to really grasp everything. There was a lot of uncomfortable moments in this movie,

especially anything that had to do with the gynecologist stuff. and even the scene where he's using the clamp thing that they made it into a earlier made it into like a statue or something. It's like a gold thing that they had. Yeah, he's hurting the lady and she's just, he's just like, but it's solid gold. It's made out of gold like it makes it better. Yeah, I don't even want to think about that being used on my body. And then he proceeds to, you know, do whatever he's doing with his hand and talking about a woman having sex with a dog. And I'm just like, what is going on in this movie?

I once treated a woman that had been having sex with her golden retriever. And I think what really sold me on the movie was Jeremy Irons. Oh, yeah. And doing a little bit of research myself, he actually stayed in character and had two. two dressing rooms. Oh, God. Which eventually didn't work out because he was starting to get confused on which dressing room he was supposed to be in.

So they, he changed the one. Yeah. But yeah, I thought there would have been a little bit more body horror because his whole, like you said, the fascination with him about people's insides and people are beautiful on the inside. And I think he was kind of more fascinated with that whole thing. and um yeah it is lifestyles of the rich and famous yes who was it they kept watching that was that beverly see i've got no that that that to me like an elliot thing okay so that was his that was

his uh bag right which i think he kind of jeremy irons kind of shine more as beverly i felt like i got more out of his performance you know okay him the just especially how he just kind of broke down when his girlfriend kind of left to do her movie shoot and he was not with her and he just couldn't handle it and he was just breaking down and just that whole performance there I thought

kind of made that the movie for me and yeah I think I definitely check this out again because I think on multiple rewatches I'll get more and more out of it. Yeah, if you can definitely pick up on

the sort of duality, of Beverly and Elliot. And if you do look at it as something like, Beverly is more like Dr. Jackal and Elliot is like Mr. Hyde. And, you know, with Beverly being the more quiet, not confident one, and Elliot just like oozes its confidence.

And doesn't really hesitate to go bang the girl that Beverly likes, you know. Or anyone else for that, man. Or anyone else, really. He's like, I'll have twins and they can refer to me as both me and my brother. I'm like, okay, that would be best up. That was pretty sick. Like, as Beverly gets the attachment, sorry, I keep forgetting the lady's name.

Claire, Claire, sorry. As she goes away, like, it's almost like him losing that, he loses part of himself, which is interconnected with like how he his relationship is with Elliot. If he loses part of Elliot, he's losing himself. And it's almost like he can't function without that. So I think it's definitely very interesting. And when you look at how they add in the drug addictions and, I mean, you can look into that so many ways.

But I'll shut up. No, that totally makes sense. Lance, what did you think? Yeah, no, this is definitely in my top half of the Cronenberg films. It's beautiful film. I mean, the descent into what ended up becoming like a mishmash of the two together is what got me toward the end. And it got a little scattered for me there, but... Yeah, I definitely did.

I guess, okay, so if you take the movie from the beginning, first of all, every time I hear Jeremy Aaron's voice, I think of Scar. I can't not think of the Lyme King, unfortunately. But I will say that the acting was spot on. It would be difficult to imagine De Niro or anyone else in this role. Yeah. Kind of, that would have been a completely different movie, right? I was thinking that, right? Yeah, I can't even imagine De Niro trying to pull this off.

I don't know that it would have worked. I think he would have hit the Elliott part, but I think he wouldn't have worked with Beverly. I don't know, man. I would say that, okay, at the beginning, so when you start out, the dichotomy is very clear, right? So you've obviously got the super suave, Devonair, incredibly shallow Elliott, right? And then you've got the really deep, emotional Beverly. But as you, I don't know if you guys noticed this the way I did, but as the movie went further and further, I would catch one of them in a scene either with the actress that they were having the affair with

or in another scene. And I couldn't tell, I couldn't tell who was who, as it got toward the end. And I think that's what Cronenberg intended on this one. And I think that's, that's, that's exactly what the actor intended.

Because as you got further and further toward the end of the movie, and my God, what a chilling portrayal of drug addiction. No, it's, it felt very accurate. I felt dirty.

I mean, I felt horrible. I really did after watching this. I had, I had to take a, take his annex and I liked how he was so in sync with his brother

when he was going around. He knew where all his stashes were. Oh my God, yeah, that's right. Every single one of them. Unless they were his stashes at first, I don't know. It could have been. See, that's what I love about this movie, is that you really aren't totally sure who was who. And yeah,

Arns pulled it off. He did a good job. I'll say shout out to the special effects because the CGI in this movie was 10 times better than some of the shit that they give us now. You know, like the terrible fire and water sequences. And when you get two people together that are in the same scene, this really honestly truly looked better than some of the things where you see twins now, where it's the same actor or actors. I was going to say, did they even do CGI? It was just the twin thing you talked about. You were saying that it was like a computer. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, basically what they do, and they've done this with a lot of film since. Basically, they use a computer for the camera to map out, do the exact same movement over and over again. So basically they would shoot, say, Jeremy Irons separately. So the background is the same. Yeah, so the background's all the same. but also the camera move in the shot is the same. Yeah.

And then, of course, they will just composite the two shots together in post. Okay. I will say this. You guys remember last year when Candyman was coming out, which was supposed to be the year before, they kept referring to it as a spiritual sequel, right, to the original Candyman. This film, in my opinion,

the next one we're going to talk about tonight is a pure, straight-up spiritual sequel to this movie. there were lines out of both films that were exactly identical, talking about the beauty pageant on the inside of the body, talking about why don't we, you know, look at the insides of people, why do we take beauty at face value? So, I mean, Cronenberg has come full circle.

Brian, as usual, you did a great job of seeing the two movies up. I didn't make this pick. This was Marcy. No, that was paid, actually. Oh, okay. Feed. I did. It was a supernepard.

But is that beat? Yeah, well, that's the thing. I kind of disassumed with these two because they had both a surgical element to them, but now watching both of them. Back to back. Like, there are definitely a lot, yeah, back to back.

And then there is definitely a lot more similarities between the two of them that I actually initially thought they would be. These could be in the same universe. Absolutely. There's so many things that are hit on. But I will say this. Not only was Iron's excellent,

but I think all of the background characters were really good, too. Now, what's your name? Genevieve Bougard. Is that correct? Or did I? Sure. I will say this.

Another thing, and you guys tell me if y'all caught this or if it was just me, but when I was watching Crimes of the Future, I thought those women look a lot like she looks. It's like Cronenberg likes a woman of a certain look. I don't know. Something about the facial features. Maybe it was just because this one was in my mind. But as I was watching Crimes of the Future, And a couple of the actresses, I thought, really reminded me a lot of this one that played the actress.

The way that they didn't. It's probably just shit that he's got in his head. That is his type of... Dreamwoman, right? So this is his... When they're auditioning. Weird. Like, you know, if there's ever some kind of unsolved serial murderers or whatever, I would definitely look at David Carter.

Oh, geez, man. Just saying. Remember him from... What was the Clive? Barker movie Brian? Oh, A knife brain. Put on the sackhead.

Yeah. That's right. I will say also that this movie has a lot to say about toxic relationships. You've got the woman that you fall madly in love with and it looks like she's got everything together because she's an

actress and she talks about drugs being, what did she call it an occupational hazard or something like that? Did she have it together though? Because she made a lot of. She had a drug problem. She was, she seemed to be...

Well, if she didn't rule, the love of your life, probably shouldn't be your gynecologist. She also seemed to be taking roles that she didn't want to take, but she had to take? Oh, I guess you're right, man. Well, they definitely seem to have it all together, at least at the beginning, right? It's kind of her duality as well. Right. Where she's not what she appears to be on the surface. Oh, okay.

I like that. Yeah, but definitely, like I say, the toxic relationship aspect that, you know, he starts doing the drugs. She makes all these little comments about, well, a lot of doctors take a lot of drugs, you know. It's like, was she using him to get the drugs? Like the brother said she was? Was he maybe more astute in that? And actually her whole modus operandi was to get prescriptions? I don't know.

I mean, that's how many layers there are in this film. It's really well done. I think toward the end, it got a little over the top. When you go into the condo and there's like pizza boxes and fucking Chinese takeout boxes on the floor? That was a bit much. A bit much. But oh, man, overall, yeah, definitely in my top half of Cronenberg films for sure. That's big because off of one movie you said his son was a better director than him.

Well, we're not done yet tonight. So it's her hopes up yet. We'll reassess that at the end. Yeah, this is definitely one of Cronenberg's probably milder as far as as body horror goes. But still a lot of psychological weird shit, man. Like he's good at weird shit, which is not necessarily a bad thing unless he's a serial killer. I don't know. Yeah, because whatever, whatever the, whatever.

the rules are of filmmaking, I don't believe he goes by those. No, not about. He makes his own rules. He walks to the beat of his own drum. Yes, definitely sure. Definitely true.

And yeah, and just knowing what Kronenberg is like with the body horror stuff and then putting a gynecologist who is weird and rapy and

crazy to gynecologists. it just is it's a weird combination of stuff but yeah no Jeremy Irons had me convinced that he was two different people you know like I never once in the movie there were plenty of times where I was like wait which brother am I looking at right now but there was never a time where I was like those two people are the same fucking person

what am I you know what I mean like sometimes you get performances that are kind of distracting because they don't really pull it off and you're like all right it's just the same person playing another role and I didn't get that with him he fucking nailed it I do think that yeah it had a lot of deep aspects to it the dr jack old mr. Hyde aspect where it's it's kind of or you know Arnold Schwarzenegger Danny DeVito whatever of just two sides to the same person You know, if you think about like who you are, like maybe there's two different sides to you. And I think that that's a lot of what this film explores.

I liked it, man. I was I was pretty impressed with it. I watched. This was the first watch for me. I watched Crimes of the Future first. And so, you know, maybe I, uh, jumped into the fire and then sat beside it. And I was like, oh, this is not so hot. You know?

But yeah, I think. this was definitely one of his tamer and and I enjoyed it. Yeah, it's very in that like psychological I think over the more grotesque visuals, but it's kind of funny because I watched Dead Ringers because I thought we were doing this podcast

last week. So I kind of watched that a little bit ago now and then Crimes of the Future yesterday. And I was like Pete, I don't know, these kind of, I don't know if these go as well as maybe something else as a double. But then the more I thought on it, I'm like, actually, it kind of works because there are certain similarities with the films. So I'm actually kind of glad we sort of did both of these together because, again, it does have,

I mean, I guess we'll sort of go into it more with the crimes of the future, but there is a lot of like a sexual element as well. Yeah. And both films, actually a lot of Cronenberg films have a very cold feel. And I do believe he does that on purpose. because while a lot of his films sort of have this commentary on what it is to be human, it's also very detached because humanity is just so detached from itself. That's kind of what I pick up from his style.

And it's probably one of the things that I absolutely love about his work. Yeah. And he likes the insides of people. for the insides of people. And spitting acid or whatever, breaking down your food before you eat it. All right, let's do scores on this one. Marcy? Yeah, so I give this one eight mutated women's bodies out of 10 or whatever that line he says.

or three whole service. Mutant women. Mutant women. With three opening or three whole cervixes. But yes, eight out of ten from me. Beat. I think this is eight out of ten as well. I forgot to mention before of my assessment

is basically one of the things I do love about this film is that there is a little bit of humour. That sprinkles three out of. There's one moment at the start of the film that made me laugh. so hard as women, the kid versions of Bev and Elliot, they're like talking about sex. Yeah.

And they go up to a random, like, young girl. And said, oh, would you want to go into the bathtub so we can have sex with us? So we, as an experiment, and she's like, fuck off. It's also happened to Kronerberg when he was younger. And that's why he likes to cut women apart. That could be. But also, if you notice, the conversation they're having about like fish reprimers, production and

that kind of thing they're talking about. It's very detached. And I think that is very telling of these two characters because they are so detached from the actual world around them. I did laugh at how they just go up to a kid and be like, do you want to have sex?

And she's like, fuck off. Yeah, you don't even know what fucking is. They're on the spectrum. What are the spectrum. To be fair, if I was that young girl, I would have had the same reaction, but I probably would punch them in the face. To be fair. This is Fib on Tooby? It could be.

I mean, I have been tempted to make us watch Naked Lunch because that is on Tooby. Oh, Lord. But, yeah, I mean, it's a great film. Definitely top tier David Cronenberg for me. And it's also an interesting one because it's kind of like the first one where he kind of left the more. sort of horror-centric films of his past and going to more sort of, I guess, more prestige film. So this is kind of like that middle ground between the two.

So, yeah, I think it's a great film. And definitely worth checking out. And it has a great performance from Jeremy Irons at the set of it. Or performances, I should say. There you go. All right, Brian, what do you think? I will go based off of Jeremy Irons, a seven and a half. half. That's just for the first watch, I think with another watch this could go up. I was surprised by the lack of body horror I thought I was going to get, but I was made to feel uncomfortable in other ways. Like I brought up the gyatocologist scene and the fact that they share women under the idea that they're the same person, which is very creepy.

and so I got that uncomfortableness in other places. But like I said before, Jeremy Irons, especially as Beverly just killed this performance. So seven and a half. Marcy, would you have thrown water in his face in a public restaurant if you just at that moment discovered that? Yeah, I probably would have, to be fair. I do actually like how she, like before she meets both of them together,

that she's kind of catching on to what's happening. It seemed that way, didn't. Yeah, it did seem that way. And she didn't know, like, it's like, imagine being in that situation, it would be mortifying. Yeah. Yeah.

I like the way she was pushing Beverly's buttons to kind of break him out of character, you know, like, why is your brother named Elliot and your name Beverly? Did they want a girl, you know, and just kind of pushing his buttons, and he was like, what are you trying to say, you know? There's absolutely an element of like sort of the toxic masculinity as well,

because Beverly is the more quieter one and doesn't go out of his way to fuck everything that moves like Elliot does. So there's definitely part of that in there. And I don't even think that was quite intentional. But it's definitely there. It's there. Lance, what are they? Man, dude, six and a half, man. I really like this movie.

Yeah, I did. It's two-thirds good. So, yeah, way to go, Cronenberg, man. I think it was incredibly deep. There were a lot of layers. I've seen this movie before when I was younger, which probably, you know, like a couple of years after it came out. It was on HBO or something like that. The only scene I really remembered too much from that was the, like when the brother toward the end was doing the drugs with him so that they could both, you know, kind of be synchronized, as he said. So that's very haunting to me still to see that. But very great acting, you know, incredibly well done. The way that it's portrayed both of them is to completely different people. I like the scene where Beverly showed up at the speech, got up on the stage,

and made a complete ass out of himself. And I think that's kind of when it started breaking down for Elliott, too. I think at that scene, that's kind of when they started getting to where it was really difficult to start telling them apart from each other. I don't know. I just felt like a spiral, a downward spiral was beginning. One personality was coming to the surface.

It was a power. Challenging the primary personality. Exactly. Yes. Yes. Who's the alpha dog, right? Well, yeah, well done movie. I enjoyed this one.

Yeah, I think seven and a half is a pretty fair school. Wow. I imagine this one gets a lot of really high scores and a lot of really low scores, depending on, you know, who's watching it. If, like, you don't know who Kronenberg is at all and you're not into that kind of movie, you could probably watch this and not take much away from it. I was really fucking boring. But I think it had a lot to say, you know, I think it was a really solid movie. I liked it. Damn.

I can't believe I. I was low man on the totem pole on this one. I really enjoyed it. So it's recommended by all. I think so, yeah. All right. This one is going to be interesting, I think, because I'm curious to see what people think about it,

because I'm not entirely sure what I think about it, which is what you guys are going to go first. But we'll start with the crimes of the future. My opinion can be changed. Malleable. Yeah. Humans adapt to a synthetic environment with new transformations and mutations. With his partner Caprice, Saul Tenser, a celebrity performance artist, publicly showcases the metamorphosis of his organs in an avant-garde performance.

When you say Caprice, I thought a kid, Capri, Capri. You guys don't remember that, do you, from HBO? Do you comedy, Jam? Yes! You got it. All right. Director and writer, David Kronenberg. Vigo Mordensen, who apparently is his favorite person on the planet,

and he's worked with him. Right now. That's crazy. This is his fourth time, full time working with him. It feels like 12. It does. It feels like he's been working with him forever, really. Vigo wanted to play the part of WIPIT.

But David Kronenberg claims he harassed him into playing Saul Tenser instead. Vigo suffered quad trauma when struck by a non-participating horse at the American Kentucky Derby and as a result was unable to stand for periods

longer than two minutes. How are there non-participating horses at the Derby? I don't know how any of that happened. They're surreal. None of what I said in that last sentence makes any sense. It's very interesting

Replacement horse or something I don't know Apparently he got hit by a fucking horse man Like that's That's great That seems like it's a guy I got struck by lightning stories He probably got kicked by

Hildago Yeah right If you remember that movie I'm sure he did This fucking toilet seat Just flew out of space And hit me in the head This resulted

In his character constantly kneeling while giving exposition and monologues, which I totally worked. I noticed that, I'm like, it actually adds to the character because he's like always hunched over or something. Yeah. And it's quite intriguing, but yes, please continue. Well, that was it for the trivia. So Marcy, want to start us off on crimes of the future?

What did you think about this one? This is a motherfucking spoiler alert. You've been fucking warned. this is a motherfucking spoiler alert You've been fucking warned This is a motherfucking spoiler alert You've been fucking warned Well, they are certainly crimes in the future

Are they? I don't know I don't know There's a crime in there, I don't know But I see a lot of people getting in trouble This was Well, they probably should have I mean

The way this film starts off is very shocking. We see a woman whose kid is eating like a plastic bin. That's what all my grandkids and we just watch screen five

and I said I've got to watch this one for the podcast. As soon as the little kids start eating the trash can, they all scattered. They ran upstairs. I don't wait. It's such a weird way to start a movie. A kid's eating a trash can, okay? Like a plastic trash bin thing.

God-daily is bad enough. I got to protect him from the fucking raccoons. Now I got to keep away from my kids too. Yeah. But the mother apparently thinks that that is enough wrong with her kid that she smothers him to death. And I was kind of like just sitting there going, okay, this is a very fucked up way to start the movie,

but then we move on to something completely different and I was a little unsure of where it was going. I thought maybe at first the kid might have been like Vigo Mortensen as a kid or something because I didn't really like, I tried to say as unknowing going into this as possible. So that completely wasn't it. But then, yeah, we do meet. and caprice and this world of the weird, I guess, synthetic nature that the world has become.

Like they point out at some point, like there's no, people don't feel pain anymore. They don't really have disease or anything. And I'm like, I'm thinking, okay, if there's a world without pain, give that to me because I live with chronic pain. That'd be great. I'd love that. But we clearly see there's pain in the source. all characters, which is kind of interesting, because he is very much like this enigmatic presence.

And as it kind of goes... And he's treated that way. He's almost treated as a desire of sense, right? Yeah. Yeah. As it goes on, like, there's so many ideas of like, like, it's like a natural human evolution. And it's a... I kind of take it like, is it in our nature to kind of evolve in this way? Or is this just humans so fucked up? It is really complex.

And again, it's a film that feels very cold and it also feels very dry. And again, Cronenberg does this on purpose. I'm 100% sure that he does this because humanity is just so disconnected from itself. But the way he kind of explores all these themes and how much body horror there is, like this soul is just growing random organs in his body that they then remove as part of a performance piece. It's very bizarre. Very strange idea for a story, right? Yeah, but then we also meet other characters.

which include Kristen Stewart, who I don't know if she wanted to fuck his organs or what the hell. Yes. She was very weird, but they, they're at the, like, organ registry. So if you grow a new organ, they register it so we know what it is. If you, it's voluntary. It's not actually part of the government yet. Yeah, and then, and then, and they do this thing where they tattoo them and da-da-da-da. But then we have, you know, we go back to that child at the start, and we're just, We meet the father played by Scott Speedman, who I did not know was in this film.

Oh, I could have sworn that was the dude that played Homelander in the boys when I first saw Scott Spieman. He looks just like him. So we, yeah, we find out, like, he's got his own agenda, this character, like, and this definitely delves into, like, massive spoilers. He's part of a group that, kind of forming their own human evolution. where humans can survive off basically trash, put into plastic, where we don't need food anymore, you just consume this. And that they had obviously modified themselves to process this, but his son was actually born that way.

And the mother saw that as something else and then killed him. So thinking that was Vigo as a child, you weren't far off, actually. because he's kind of, yeah, he's like almost the other side of that coin, where he's definitely changing and mutating. And all of this kind of comes together and it's just, it's almost very fucked up. Like they've made, like there's this change that could be way beneficial, but then it needs to be covered up as well.

So it's, it's very complex. And I know that I probably would need to probably, watch it a few more times and I might not have been in the best headspace for a film this heavy, I suppose, but there's definitely a lot to say on humanity, evolution. The evolution. Exactly. The things within ourselves.

Okay. So we're, let's just, we're doing spoilers on this movie. It's just how it's going to be. Clearly. But not yet, though. Not yet. Yeah. Well, we kind of already.

We've already hit. I've already hit that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Let me have questions. We're going to put a, we're going to put a spoiler warning before we get into the Oh, wow. Yeah, it's kind of hard to talk about this one without, isn't it?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, but did they, did they make themselves able to do the, to digest the practice? Some did, yes, yes, because they, yeah. Was that a natural human evolution thing that they were trying to stop? That's, that's the beauty of it, dude. You don't, you don't know.

Well, that's how you look at it because we get the idea that they have evolved themselves unnaturally, but it started to form naturally in the kid. But you have a group of people who don't want that to happen. But then Vigo, because of who his character, like the character of soul, who he is and he's already changing. And as it goes on, like these organs are forming much faster every time. And he's very uncomfortable in his body. Yeah. Very uncomfortable.

All of those people genetically modified themselves to be able to digest the plastic? Yes, they, some of them already had it. No, they all modified themselves because the kid was the first one to be born like that. All right. I missed that part. Yeah, that's where Speedman picked that up because he said, my son had this particular genetic ability. And so we modified ourselves so that we can do the same thing so that we can continue to live. I got you.

In this world that we've, as humans have fucking created and fucked up. Yeah. And we've got everything plastic now and pollution and everything's, we either go with it and we keep living or we don't go with it and we die out. That's a whole other question. It's almost like they want to extend what you could do. Yeah. But then like a Vigo's character kind of takes everything in to evolve again. And so that's why when they were pulling all the organs.

out of the kid during the autopsy. They were tattooed. And so they were like, oh, well, these are not like original organs. Yeah, they actually replaced what was in the child. Right. So that performance was then like, oh, it's just whatever. Whereas they took all that from him. And then you see those two women power drew into his head, killing him.

Yeah. Almost just stop this thing. But it's almost like it's saying that this kind of evolution, is almost inevitable whether humans are going to kill each other out or get better. But I've definitely said a lot. But this film is a lot to take in. It is very complicated. Like if you're not fully paying attention, you're going to miss shit.

Yeah. And that's, hence, I need to be in a better headspace. And definitely need closed captions because I feel like I just can't understand a movie without them anymore. A lot of dialogue. I know. There was a lot of dialogue. I put them on everything now.

I'm like, oh, man, am I an old person now? I guess I am. Yeah. But I definitely do want to revisit it and really take more in. But as I was watching it, like my understanding was that they kind of modified themselves. Okay. To ingest plastic, which resulted in the kid being born that way, but maybe it was the other way around. See, that's how I...

He said it. He said it. He said it in the film. See, I probably missed the dialogue because I couldn't hear shit. So there you go. Yeah, but people do body mod. A lot of people do body mod now. I mean, you know, it's part of... A lot of people like to have piercings and tattoos and stuff like that. It's all kind of related, you know?

I like this movie. The whole body modification just... It will evolve. I mean, it already has. Get all these ears on you, Philip? You want to have some extra ears? Even if they don't hear? I can go get boobs tomorrow if I wanted to.

Sure. How much different is that? I'll give some YouTube news. Yeah. Yeah. But yes, please, someone else. I don't know if I'd be mad at it. I want to hear from everyone else.

All right. Bede. It's an interesting movie, man. Bede, what do you think? Oh, it definitely is for sure. Like, I wasn't sure. I mean, I had a bit of an idea what to expect going into this film, because I've read the synopsis. But I was kind of very intrigued just to see Cronenberg going back into science fiction and body horror games. He had done that since existence in 1999. So it's interesting kind of seeing him going back into that world. Like, would he? Yeah, it's been that long. And I was kind of curious to see, like, would he still have, like, that magic as he usually does when he goes into this type of genre film? Or would it just be kind of tired and mooring and all that?

But honestly, I think he still has it. And watching this film, like Marcy said before, like it immediately grabs you right away with that kid starting to eat the plastic pit. Like, you're going like, what the fuck is going on? And at first, I did think, oh, this is Vigo Walton said as a kid. and then the kid gets murdered. I'm like, okay, this is definitely not what I'm expecting at all. But as it goes on, there's so much world building within this film. It kind of just throws you in there.

It reminded me a little bit of like Matt Max Fury and Roebore. It just throws you into that world. Very epic. It reminds me of Dune. It reminds me of Dune from last year with the same. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I mean, in the small amount of time that this movie takes place,

you just feel like you know everything about this world. I just really got into it. But it does just throw you in there and you kind of have to figure it out along the way. Yeah, that's true. Kind of like a puzzle, right? Yeah, and also very much to pay extra attention as well, because like Marcy said, you could easily miss stuff. But I was able to capture a lot of things that were going on in the film. And I think what's interesting is that, you know, this is a world where basically climate change and pollution has done a lot to the world.

But instead of like in the way of that, you know, like in total destruction, it has changed our biology as humans. Yes. That we can no longer feel pain and we grow other organs inside ourselves. So basically now, like people can do stuff to their bodies and they won't feel pain. Like, you know, and I think it's interesting about this film is that it is also a satire on the art world as well. Like this is the quote of the next evolution. Yeah, the next evolution of that is like we're going from painting or sculpture to doing stuff to the human body. And the fact that we can take stuff out or move things around or put more ears on us without feeling any of that pain whatsoever, like it just makes it, I guess, free as a society.

But with the character of Saul who can still feel pain, like he's one of the few characters who still care. but, you know, he has to grow new organs. Like, it's interesting kind of seeing that he's being pulled in by the government to go into this radical evolutionist group to show kind of, and his worldview kind of changing because of that. Because I think what's interesting about this film is, like, all this stuff is changing, but when the kid, like, you got Scott Spieber who genetically modified himself to eat plastics. And probably this is a world where there's so much garbage and figure out. Adapt or die.

Adapt or die. Yeah, exactly. And maybe that's kind of the thing. Like there's like so much garbage and all that, maybe the next thing to do is eat the garbage. So that way we can save ourselves as humans. But then, of course, when his son is born with that same ability as well, and then you have this.

And then the mom kills the kid. And also you've got all the government agents wanting to kill Scott's speaking. It's almost like the government in a lot of place. Oh, there's so much going on. And there's also a lot of things like the government is saying, like, is denying that this is the next stage of evolution. And they just wanted to be fun and normal. Yeah, exactly. And there's a lot of parallels to that, like even what's going on into the world right now. And to me, it just really adds so much to the film. And also all the surgical equipment and also,

So like the machines that Saul uses for, and also Caprice use for their art shows, is very resentment of some of the surgical tools that Beverly created in Den Briggins. But some of that design is a lot. I told you. Spiritual sequel, man. Exactly. And also the performances are great. Vigo Mortensen, like now knowing that he actually injured himself pretty badly before the film definitely makes sense when you watch his performance. because he looked, that is not, like, he's not faking that pain.

He is in legit pain as he's in his performance. And I also have to laugh as long as you text me this past year when you're watching. It's like, why does he dress up as a ninja? Yeah. That kind of smacks an urban legend though now. And now that I think about it. Yeah, and also like, I guess because they shot this film during COVID time. So I'm thinking like, oh, he's dressed up as ninjas so he doesn't catch COVID.

but I think the performances are great but for me the standout performance is definitely Kristen Stewart whose performance is so weird but you just can't help be captivated by it because she's such a like as Masked said she gets yeah it's such a quirky performance but you can tell that she's very

almost is kind of has this kind of sexual attraction sexual attraction to like to these like body surgery art pieces that soul is. She does say to souls that surgery is the new sex and there's definitely this correlation between like sex and I guess the human body and there's so much you could go into like honestly I mean we see we see Leah Sadoo like after Vigo has a surgery basically stick her tongue into his open

zipper wound. So. Very grudge like if you think about it too. Yeah. It was just that was the new sex and that was the new artist.

You know, it was the new fucking Michelangelo. You know, he was doing his thing and then he had groupies. And also it's interesting.

And again with the sex stuff is like there's a scene where Saul and Capri's do have sex, but they don't have sex with each other. They let that machine just like cut them, cut them, and it kind of gives them sexual pleasure. Yeah. Yeah, so it's a very interesting film.

Like, it's definitely not for everyone. I can definitely see some people being incredibly put off by it. But I think there's a lot of interesting stuff in this. And like Dead Riggers, it's one that you'll think about so much after you watch it because there's so much going on. And when you go back and rewatch it again, you're going to get even more out of it. So I think it's a really great film.

And definitely, again, a very, in my personal opinion, a top-tier Kronenberg film. And it just shows that this man still has it. All right. Brian, what do you think? I don't know. I'm getting more out of listening to you guys talk about what you got out of it than what I did.

That's a good thing. Had so many questions when I finished this movie. I mean, outside of that, I thought all the performances were great. I'd beat, I agree. Kristen Stewart was to stand out. She was the weird one in this movie. Out of all the weird shit going on, they actually call her the weird one. I forgot which character was.

It was like, what's going on with that weird girl? Yeah, she was making them uncomfortable. I just, maybe I just, maybe I just. wasn't in the also on the right head space to watch this and didn't pay attention enough there was just so many

like the beginning the boy that's playing by the water you see that entire ship turned over in the water right and then the buildings look kind of

post apocalyptic but they never kind of speak on what happens you know sure I kind of maybe they don't they don't need to

Brian they don't need to you kind of know where you are at that point I mean I didn't I didn't know what the fuck was going on and I also thought that was Vigo as a child until his mother

Everybody seems to have thought that I've violently smothered him because that was She not only put a pillow on him She laid on top of him So he could flail about Which I was just kind of like What is going on? It was a strange

Like I said the grandkids scattered When that scene came on As soon as he bit into the plastic trash skin They were gone I kind of got all you know Everything with the whole body modification but there was just other stuff. I was just like, what was that with the breakfast chair thing?

That was kind of... Because it's more modifications, dude. It's the way we're going, man. That's why... That's why I thought it was a natural genetic thing because they have this chair that is supposed to help you digest shit. Because so many... Is that what it was doing?

Yeah, it's supposed to. Yeah. Some of them sounded like they weren't digesting anything. Yeah, well, but that, yeah, that's what it was doing. It was moving you around and helping you digest. It's like, Phyllis, like Wally, Wally, the amorphous blobs float around, right? But if that many people were having that many problems digesting regular food and that they had to sell this fucking chair that's super expensive. Right. Uh-huh. And how much of that are we just being told we need?

Well, then why is this not a natural genetic thing that's happening? Okay. And I didn't. But again, I think I need to watch it again, man. Yeah, I wanted to know why I was General or Palpatine's, not Toppedon, Ego Mortensen, Jedi Morrison. His whole motivation to, because he was undercover, right? Yeah, right. What was his motivation?

He was playing both sides. well they didn't go into that did they they didn't go into his motivation he's sickly and and that's all he does just get get surgeries and recover and that's it you know he kind of has to cover up because he's sort of a celebrity I it's sort of makes sense and he's got to cover up scars yeah I had to laugh a little bit I'm sorry I was just going to say he was covering up to because he was a celebrity but he seemed to get notice everywhere he went. Everywhere he went. I mean, when you're the only person

dressed like that, yes. But also, notice the similarities between what he wore. If you put that in red, he could have been straight out of the mantled gynaecologist surgery. Hey, who's the demon monk over here? Hey, Vigo!

And at times, he was kind of like a ninja. I mean, he watched the whole ear guy performance in the dark with his mask on. Right. Until somebody was like, hey, Vigo? What do you? That was a cool fucking scene, huh? I like the ear guy.

It did feel like he was a, Vigo was a Messiah. Yeah, the ear guy was awesome, dude. I thought that was really great special effects. Yeah, maybe Messiah, but maybe more just like super celebrity, like art god. Yeah, but he's like the one that can grow the, you know, he's the one that's changing naturally. Like he could eat the plastic candy bar. what other people could. So he's the next phase, like the child.

They got killed. Candy bar actually looked delicious. Hey, it's Willie. It looked like it came back out of Willie Wonka's. Yeah. And another question. Who hasn't eaten a little bit of plastic at some point? We all did.

They couldn't feel pain, but could they experience grief? Oh, he looked like he was experiencing him. Yeah, but then you get... He was actually experiencing pain, though. Well, they were very open. sexually for sure you get the mother that killed her son in the beginning she cried for about a minute and then stopped and seemed to go over it and then was when she was doing the right thing right and then uh what is her name uh is it clea sodo or leicidot right lea sedo yeah yeah the whole

idea of doing an autopsy on this kid seemed to bother her for yeah and then she got over it so can they not experience grief anymore True. Some of that may be pacing. I don't know. That's, no, I mean, that probably you got a point. I mean, if you're going to kill all physical pain, doesn't that just... Yeah, because you notice how detached... And again, it's such a theme in Kronenberg's work. There's a detachment of that emotion there.

Yeah, there you go. Detachment. Even with Scott Speedman coming to find out, you know, his son's dead. You know, he just kind of put his hand on his chest and was like, oh, I know. I'll have someone do it. performance piece using your corpse. You know, everybody just seemed to get over everything like super quickly. So I just kind of wondered that that change.

That's what I was wondering. Yeah. Wow. Of course the performance piece. Yeah, well, I think with the performance piece, it basically was like even though his son is no longer alive. It's basically

he's going to use his son and do this live artistic autopsy scene to kind of show the world this is the next stage. Oh, yes. Absolutely, yeah. That was his whole master plan.

Yeah. And so the world could see it and people see like, this is where we go to next. And there were, there were deniers, right? As there are right now. Right? Yeah, like those, yeah, exactly. Like those, the two women who always come around and get turned on by fixing Saul's machine because they were great.

They were great. They were great. And they was like, we're just going to get naked. to sit in this machine for no apparel. Yeah. That was cool, though. That was a beautiful scene. It was a sex thing. Yeah, I loved it. Yeah, I really did.

It got to turn me on, to be honest with you. The sex artist's toothbrush. No, paintbrush. Yeah. All right. Lance. I fucking adored this movie, man. This is the top top ten for sure. Yeah.

Favorite Cronenberg film since the flying easily. I just, I thought the Worldbuilding was phenomenal. I think we've already talked about most of everything. I can't really think of anything new to add. You know, we've kind of gone more round robin than we normally do, which is cool. It's a nice change. It's kind of had to just be a roundtable discussion kind of thing because it's such a fucking weird movie.

Yeah. Bottom line, I think that what he's mainly trying to say is that we're killing ourselves. We're destroying ourselves. We're polluting our world. We're turning everything into plastic. if we don't adapt to this trash and this garbage and this. It's not even necessarily trash and garbage. It's just different.

It's man-made. It's like it's fake. It's not what, you know, if you believe in God, what God put on this earth, like, you know, trees and plants and water. It's like we're changing the world into something new. Now, are we going to adapt to this something new that we as these stupid idiots have changed it to? Are we going to all just die off and wait for the next? species to take over. I always feel like it's kind of optimistic in the way that,

um, kind of positive because, um, like as we know, like people are constantly going to change and the world around us is changing. And this is something that like has embraced. Yeah, it embraces like all these changes. Like people modifying themselves is seen as wonderful and beautiful. Whereas you look at that now and people are so against other people living their lives the way they want, it's like, well, fuck off, A, and B, fuck off. But it's also, it really does speak about, like, that evolutionary, like, kind of embracing the change that we need to make. And that's kind of really encapsulated in the soul character, especially at the end

where he is, like, taking on this new, um, way of living again. But I'll show up again. This is great. Yeah, we got a lot of talk going on for this one. I don't know. Yeah, I got a lot out of it. I really did.

I think I need to watch it again. There's a lot there. Yeah, but especially after discussion, I'm going to say I definitely really like this movie because it gives you so much to talk about. And it's so fucking different than anything I've ever seen in my life. You know, it's, David Cronenberg is good at that. And there were parts of it that were very uncomfortable.

And there were parts of it that were very sleazy. There were parts of it that were. Oh, yeah. Fucking genius. You know, it was, there's just so much to go on. And, uh, I think it, I think it deserves another watch. I'm still slightly confused. And it says a lot of things.

I think that's part of the point, too. Yeah. to you, Brian? Yeah, I got a couple of extra little trivia here which is appropriate to bring up, but Nicholas Cage was attached

to play Saul. Oh, my God. So do imagine. Oh, my God. He's been trying to make this movie since 2003. Wow. And after Nick Cage,

Ray Fines was also attached. Okay. So I had to bring up Nick Cage. That is a pairing. like I would love to see is Cronenberg and Nicholas Cage? Dude, Nick Cage

could have pulled this roll off. Nick Cage is the new sex. I really, I really I really, I really I really get... I think he should be nominated for Ben of Actors. He's pretty fucking amazing and he did great in this. I think we need Nick Cage and a remake

of Dead Ringers. Oh boy. Oh, wow. Nick Cage and Nick Cage. We already know that he could do that because you look at adaptation. Wow. He did play. And like face off, he kind of played.

Yeah. Let's also not forget the unburable weight of massive talent because there's two Nicholas cages in that move. Oh, yeah. We're going down that rabbit hole, are we? I can just imagine like the cage. And it better be that shit crazy. I just want to.

laughing to myself now. I can imagine Nick Cage as being in this film, he'll be like, all right, you're going to do all the work, I'm going to take all this body parts out of me. Don't mind that. Don't mind that spleen. It's gone with the hair from con hair on top of its head. Oh, my God. He'd be like, I've grown my 10th penis.

Oh, my God. Who could play the better fucking Messiah Art King than Nick Cage? Yeah. That's, like, what he's born for. also Orca's inside of my body is another

Nicholas Cage Also, Leah Sadoe was supposed to play the Kristen Stewart part because originally Natalie Portman was going to play her part Oh wow Interesting Yeah, I read that too

And she couldn't at the last minute Due to COVID So I think it was like COVID restrictions Or she wasn't able to fly out For the shoot So Because they filmed this in Greece

Not Toronto or Canada That's different for Croninberg, right? You guys ready to wrap up with scores? Yeah, and I'll definitely agree, though, that Kristen Stewart did pretty badass. She was fucking amazing. I wouldn't mind if she got an Oscar nomination, too.

I never thought she was a horrible actress. I think she just got stuck with a bad... Stuck with a bad... Kind of like Batman, huh? I think they've since then had both proven themselves. Isn't that crazy how they've both gone on to do so many great roles? They got their... they got there, as Jane and

Salin-Bogg would say, their movie check up first. And they both worked with David Cronenberg. Get that motherfucking movie chit. Cosmopolis, uh, starbropos. That's right. That's right. That was Cronenberg. Fucking A. That movie bored the shit out of it.

Just that man right and running a limousine. I fucking loved it. It's so solicit. All right. I will rewatch that. Hmm. So I think Pat's, Our Pass was also in the follow-up, Maps to the South, which is a very underrated. That's actually one of the rare Kronenberg films I haven't seen, and I actually really want to get on to one either.

Hold on, which one was that, guys? The one I was talking about earlier, Lance. Maps to the Stars? Oh, Maps to the Starz. Yeah, I've never seen that one. Never seen it. I have to watch it. It's a great, dark, comedic satire on Hollywood. Okay. And I, to this day, still reckon Julia,

Julia Ann Morsha got an Oscar nomination for that movie. She's amazing at it. Does he cut up like hookers or anything? There's a lot of weird stuff in it. I mean, and John Tuscack is just being all weird and crept of being all weird in it as well. This is, this is, this is his outlet for his serial killer inclinations. It's just like how we podcast instead of actually serial killing people. Why do you think I have so many podcasts?

There you go. There you go. Gotta hide your victims somewhere. Every time some dumb motherfucker cut you off, it's like, I'll just do a podcast instead of stabbing your ass in a hit. Right. All right, scores. Marcy?

Yeah, once again, eight out of ten, but I'll give it eight out of ten. and weird fucking organs that you grow that don't really have a purpose and they get taken out. I do really want to watch it again and be in the right headspace for it. And I think I'll probably get a lot more out of it as well. But yeah, it's a very, it's kind of an interesting amalgamation of Kronenberg's career because you do get a lot of little bits from his other films. Like the connection dead ringers. you've got connections with like existence because the visuals, it's very similar in ways

and that very like detached and weird eroticism that you're having crashed. Like there's so many little bits and pieces. And the fact that E called this Crimes of the Future when he made a short film, I think, in like 1970, called Crimes of the Future, but it's not, this isn't a remake of that. Oh, wow. It's completely different. I think it still sort of has a bit of like a medical thing. I haven't seen it for maybe 12 years or so. Something ridiculous. But that was also Cronenberg? Yeah. So it's almost like he just took the title of like one of his very early works and sort of amalgamated so many things into this film.

But yeah, it's certainly not going to be for everybody. but if you're kind of weird like us, you'll definitely get something out of it. So eight out of ten. Yeah, I'm looking it up here. It says it only shares a title because the story and concept are unrelated. I think the original title, like when he was working on this back in 2003, where Nicholas Cage was actually Pain Killers. I think that was the original title, which I guess would be a much more appropriate title.

Yeah, that makes more sense. But I guess crimes of the future as a title can be a lot of things. Could it be the crimes of like, you know, what we do to our world through pollution and climate change? Could that be like what the things that we do now with body modification, but growing organs are those kind of like the post crimes of what we did to our planet in the future? So I Crimes of Humanity. Yeah, exactly. It could be a lot of things.

Like, there's a lot of things you could read into that title when you sort of think about this film. 100% yeah. Beat, you guess, Thor? Yeah, I'm actually going to get this a 9 out of 10. I really enjoyed this film a lot. I think it's, it's definitely got great world building,

a lot of interesting and thought-provoking themes. And the performances are all great. And, of course, in quintessential Cronenberg style, he still knows how to kind of unsettle you as a viewer with some of the weird imagery and how far he goes with his story. And not just in this discussion, but even just now a few days after watching this film, there's a lot of interesting things within it, thematically, that I think I'm going to, that make me appreciate it as a film even more so now that I did a few days ago. but also like next time I watch it I'm probably going to get even more out of it so yeah it's definitely a top tier Kronenberg film for me so yeah nine out of ten all right Brian what do you think originally my score was a little bit lower than what I'm going to give it but now kind of listening to everybody talk more about the movie it kind of made me understand it a little bit better and I've been kind of thinking back towards it and it makes a whole lot more sense And on top of that, I thought the performance was great, especially Kristen Stewart,

which I kind of wanted to see more of that character. She was kind of a more of a minor character compared to everybody. Yeah, didn't get enough screen time. And we didn't really talk about the body horror that much, but I think this is a return to form for... Oh, yeah. You know what I mean? Who does body horror better than David Cronenberg?

Oh, yeah. Uncomparable shit. And it's kind of what I want to... wanted more in dead ringers, I got it in abundance than this one. So I'm going to give this one. Definitely going to rewatch it. So I'm going to give it a seven. Nice. Nice. See, I'm going to save Lance, you for last, because I'm very curious. You could be anywhere on the map on this one. But, yeah, I wasn't really sure what I thought about this. And it's because it's one of those movies where, like,

crimes of the future. I'm like, all right, let's go watch Minority Report. Yeah, exactly. That's not what this was. I was not expecting what I got, even though I knew it was David Cronerberg. Actually, I didn't catch that until I started watching it. like I clicked on Crimes of the Future and started

watching it and then some really weird shit started happening and I was like Oh, what in the David Cronerbergen I watched And it was just so weird, it's hard to come up with a real opinion on it right off the bat And after

after yeah talking about it I really want to watch it again and I'm I'm going to go nine on it too man And I think this... What? This movie had a whole lot to say in so many different things. Oh, my shit. Without just blasting you in the fucking face with it.

It was... It had a lot of nuance to it. While showing you guts and stuff. It's a crazy fucking movie. It's definitely the polar... Yeah, like, it's definitely in terms of how it is. explores its themes. Definitely the polar opposite of something like, say, the Black Christmas remake, let's just

say that. God damn it. This is not here right now, so I have to bring it up. So I think there's going. Well, he can't defend himself. I can't escape that movie. I don't know what he's trying to defend. Let's, what did you think?

My favorite Cronenberg movie since the Fly. 8 and a half. I was teetering between 8 and 8 and a half. Yeah, I was teetering between 8 and 8.5 but you guys have all talked to me into raising it up. But Philip, dude, I'm fucking astonished

that you gave it a 9, dude. That's amazing. Yeah, like I probably wasn't when we first came on the show. It was just, it was like if I had to describe this movie, if somebody casually asked me, oh, I had crimes of the future,

Did you see that? What you think about it? My answer would be fucking weird. Yeah, I was just... That's my two-word review. Yeah, I was very surprised. I did kind of enjoy the trailer a little bit, but then I was a little bit worried,

Brian, about the older Cronenberg movies that I hate so much, and I was worried he was going back to that cheesy B-grade stuff, but this proved itself. It's going to end up in a lot of top tens this year, for sure. So is that it? I don't know. Conversation. All right.

This movie could be our could be our Mandy for this year. Oh, wow. That rewatch has to be on mushrooms then. Yeah. Oh, we should definitely do that. All right. Marcy and B.

Thanks again, Ergett. Thanks again, Marcy and B. My computer's about the shit on me. So before it does, tell everybody where we can find you. Yes. Thank you so much for having. having us on to discuss these two films. And yeah, you can find the Supernetwork at supermarsie.com,

which is S-U-P-E-R-M-A-R-C-E-Y. You can find all of our podcasts and everything you need to know there, including all of our socials and our podcast feeds, everything. It's your one-stop shop for all things to Super Network. All right. And as always, we want to thank you guys for listening to another episode of The Horror Returns. We always love to hear your feedback and ideas. You can reach us at The Horror Returns at gmail.com or www.

Thehorroriturns.com. And we're putting some re- uploads on. I'm working on one right now, Brian, that's, I think, our best films in 2017. And one thing I noticed is we used to get a lot more listener feedback on our top 10 and our top and bottom 10 shows. So this year I'm very, very hopeful that we can get more interaction from people. that are listening because we know there's more of you out there now. So please, as we get closer to the end of the year, send us your top and bottom 10 of the year. You guys will both do that for us,

right? Sure. Yeah, I'd do some research in it before I decide mine. My shit's always last minute. That's all right. Beating and Marcy, you guys are going to give us the top 10 list? I mean, I barely see any new releases, so probably not. All right, we'll go with five. I'll do it. I'll do it for me. All right. No, Bid will give it to you in by like five years from now

when he's completely watched everything possible. Well, I promise my top 10 list from last year will finally be released very soon. So it's going to happen. That's very late even for you. All right. Well, next week. I have been busy. Sorry.

Next week for some reason, we're going to salute the fifth. films of full-moon features. What led to this, Brian? I don't know. Coincidence. Okay, well, whatever it was, it's going to be Puppet Master and Doll Man. So, Philip, until the horror returns again. Good night.