The Horror Returns - THR - Ep. #407: March Madness (2024) - Female Empowerment

Episode Date: March 14, 2024

This week, it's time again for that honored tradition of the annual THR March Madness tournament - featuring the best of female empowerment in horror movies. Joining us this week, we have Heather Powell from The Friday Nightmares podcast, Jessica Schmitt from The HorrorCast, horror novelist Sabrina Voerman, and our very good friend Pedro Nunez. It's an all-star cast to celebrate Women in Horror month. Thanks for listening! The Horror Returns Website: https://thehorrorreturns.com THR YouTube Channel: https://youtube.com/@thehorrorreturnspodcast3277 THR Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thehorrorreturns THR Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thehorrorreturns/ Join THR Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1056143707851246 THR X: https://twitter.com/horror_returns?s=21&t=XKcrrOBZ7mzjwJY0ZJWrGA THR Instagram: https://instagram.com/thehorrorreturns?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y= THR TeePublic: https://www.teepublic.com/user/the-horror-returns SK8ER Nez Podcast Network: https://www.podbean.com/pu/pbblog-p3n57-c4166 E Society Spotify For Podcasters: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/esoc E Society YouTube Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UCliC6x_a7p3kTV_0LC4S10A Music By: Steve Carleton Of The Geekz

sisters and you Victims, for those of you who delight and dread, who fantasize about fear, who glorify gore, welcome. You have found the place where the horror returns. Listeners beware. This podcast contains major plot spoilers in the foulest of the foulest

language. Join us in celebrating the old and the new, the best, and the worst in horror. Welcome once again to The Horror Returns. Lance is out this week, but we have a very special show for you. It's the Women in Horror March Madness Bracket. We've got Pedro and Brian here with me, and Lance is out this. week but we also have Sabrina Heather Powell and Jessica Smit so how are you guys doing today great it's so nice to see the three of you well here the three of you again we've had some good times together over the years and I'm a big fan of the show I've written in a couple of times I wrote a review about how handsome you all were I'm not

sure if Lance ever read that review I wrote it anonymously to see if you would figure out it's me or not. So it's so nice to be back. And I'm even more excited because I have two lovely ladies joining us. One is a podcaster, one is an author, one is also Canadian, which is always fun. But I'll start first with Jessica. Jessica, welcome so much to the horror returns, the woman's bracket. And thank you so much for participating.

And do you want to give a little promo about yourself and what you do in the horror community? Yeah, thanks for having me. I also listen to the show, and I love you guys. So thanks for inviting me on. Thank you. Really bummed. Yeah. Super surprises me, but I'll take it.

Oh, yeah. You guys are always so supportive of the horror cast, which is one of the podcasts I'm on. So I've definitely noticed that you share our posts without us spamming your Facebook group. You do it for us. So that's really great. Yeah, you take Brian for that. I've got dogs going crazy over here. sorry about that.

That's a, that's my werewolf. First of all, adorable. Can he come on the show? Like, I think he's going to replace Lance moving forward. Lance, we have your replacement. It's just going to get. Yeah, you can just record that sound clip and play it back whenever you need to insert, werewolf noises.

But I'm on the horror cast with three co-hosts. And then I'm also on horror through her eyes, which is a female-centric podcast. I started with the Taminator in October of last year, so we're still fairly new. But those are my two main, you know, sources of existing in the horror community so far. Although I'm hoping to do more. I've been guesting a little on other podcasts, and we've been having some guests, including we had a Dave Dr. Shockbecker on the other night for horror through her eyes. So it's been really awesome and we're having a good time.

Well, so happy to have you here. And how long have you been on the Rotten Round Table for? Yeah. So for the horror cast, I think I've been on there for about two years now, maybe just a smidge longer. And that was really, it was such a cool opportunity for me to get to join them because it was actually my favorite podcast. And I was an online lurker. And Tammy, you know, who's also on that podcast with me. She invited me to come on just as a guest, listener, and then they ended up liking me, I guess. So they asked if I could join full time, and I was very honored. So it's been really awesome. It's been such a crazy progression of feeling like I know those people, even though I didn't actually know them, just from listening to them for years, you know, and then getting to actually become friends with them and join the podcast. Well, Mark Nato is definitely one of my favorite humans on this planet.

besides obviously the gentleman and everyone on this show right now. But yeah, he's fabulous. And I've always appreciated his insight. He watches everything, truly. Oh, my God, he does. It's insane. And he's actually, he's inspired me to kind of do that too. So last year I had a lot of Tooby Watches under my belt because I agree with him that

it's really hard to judge a movie like that's actually bad if you don't even know what bad is. true very true not that all two be movies are bad by the way i love them yeah you would get along very well scott crawford i don't know if you listen to friday nightmares but if you do scottie you know then scottie's a big fan of uh of tuby films and everything they produce and with me is my canadian counterpart that's just around the corner right sabrina because vancouver and toronto are super close to each other um so close it's such a pleasure i feel like we know each other other. We have a mutual friend and I feel like we've spent a lot of time together though this is literally the first time we've spoken. So welcome to, is this your first podcast or have you

podcasted with Kate before or I guess tell us a little bit about you? I have. I have podcasted with Kate and I'm glad she kind of brought me into this community because there's been so much, so many great relationships that I've been able to develop just through Facebook and Instagram and, you know, being on something like this where I get to talk about women in horror. is it's amazing. But to get into my little intro, I'm Sabrina Vorman. I am actually from Vancouver Island, so I'm around the corner and then some. Not quite as close. Yeah, a little further away, right? A little further. We love BC fairies. So I am a author and I write dark fantasy horror. I've got a series that's coming out progressively.

One is actually coming up next week. I had one come out last year, and so there's a couple more coming out in the future. And they are very female empowerment focused. That's my main goal with everything I write, everything I put to paper, and pretty much everything I talk about, too. So I'm really excited to be on this, and I think it's going to be a very interesting conversation to have because all these movies are fantastic. Yeah, we definitely brought together some really interesting picks.

And we really didn't have any duplications. Now, mind you, there was only three of us, so that could be a little bit easier. But I, and I kept a couple actually from a previous bracket that was sent to me because they kind of fit over, so we'll see what continues. Before we jump in, Phil, is there anything else you want to talk about for the horror returns before we jump into the bracket? Uh, no, check us out on the horror returns.com. Pedro, I'm sorry, buddy. I forgot to mention you. He's, or honorary remember, he's on here with us. Um, and yeah, I'll let you take it away and we'll vote on some bracket stuff. Should we get Pedro to do an intro? Pedro, do you want to do an intro?

I heard it not needed because you're on the show so much. Pedro, you want to pimp some stuff? No, Pedro went back to bed. He's too tired. He's muted. He might be away. Do you want to give an intro to yourself at all? You're on here, too. Anything you want to say? No, I was just excited to get into the bracket, excited about these picks and waiting to hear what everybody has to say about them and see who is Victoria.

Yeah, it's the best March Madness you can find right here, right? All right, we'll start with the first side. We'll start on the left side, I think. And we'll start with a very popular film for one of our co-hosts that couldn't be here today is Kate Pollack. I was a big fan of this one because she talked to me excessively about it when she was hoping to could join us, but unfortunately she couldn't. We are hitting up The Witch 2015 versus the autopsy of Jane Doe 2016. I do have a synopsis out up about each movie, but I'm assuming the panelists have seen them. The witch is based in the 1630s in New England about a devoted Christian family with five children and one particular young lady who is, I guess you could say, coming to her own.

And the autopsy of Jane Doe is about two dudes that are doing an autopsy on a woman who is not what she seems. So I don't know, Jessica, let's start you off. Which one do you think represents woman empowerment more strongly than the other and why? All right. Well, this one, first of all, is going to be really hard. I was just looking at this matchup. I love both of these movies, although The Witch is one of my top ten favorite movies of all time. But to be honest, if I'm thinking specifically about female empowerment, I would hate to say this because I love The Witch so much and I picked it. And I definitely think it's a really great movie about female empowerment. when it comes down to it. But coming back after death to take revenge is pretty freaking empowering. So I think I'm going to actually have to go with the autopsy of Jane Doe. And I love that, you know, there's a portion of the movie, too,

where another character is kind of pleading with her, saying that he understands why she's so angry and vengeful. and he's trying, you know, to say, please take me. Like, we deserve to be punished for what was done to you. Like he understands the gravity of that. And she's still in death is like, no. I'm not adhering to anything. I'm taking my power and I'm going to do what the hell I'm going to do.

And she, I mean, doesn't talk, doesn't act. You know, she's just laying dead on a slab throughout the whole movie. So it's very impressive, but I think incredibly empowering. I think you make some very valid points. You know, the first time I saw this, I thought the same thing. I'm like, how can an individual do so much and not say or move a muscle throughout this entire film? Right. Right.

So I think he makes him really valid points. So what are you thinking, Sabrina? Where do you stand on this? This is such a tough one. I haven't seen all the films, but I have seen both of these. and to pair two very powerful witch characters together. It really makes for a tough first battle. I am going to go with the witch because I'll lay out my reasonings here.

It, to me, is like a self-fulfilling prophecy. You get beaten down by the same people telling you the same thing and shooting you down and cutting you down. And eventually you're going to snap. And Thomasine's character doesn't necessarily snap, but she gets pushed in like a cage dog, and she is forced to let this progression take over. And then she just, she owns what she is and what her family has kind of made her be because she has no other option.

And even though she has no other option, it still felt like her choice, if that makes sense. Totally. Totally makes sense. If I can interject really quick, sorry, because that was the point I should have mentioned to why I was picking one over the other. Thinking about it with The Witch because it was kind of her only option, that's one of the reasons why I went with the autopsy of Jane Doe. Not that I'm trying to poo your decision, Sabrina. Oh God, no, totally fair. I just totally forgot to talk about that part, not just what I picked, but why I picked it over the other thing.

so I figured I should say something. Right. Great conversation. Thank you so much to both of you for bringing your thoughts. Full disclosure, I'm not a huge fan of The Witch 2015. Unpopular opinion I know. Probably one of the few people I know that don't overly love this film. That being said, the performances in it, you can't take away anything from that.

And the built-abund, this young woman kind of coming into her own and finding herself and finding herself in something that was considered quite deviant in that time. leaning up to witch trials and all the other stuff that's happened in history. I think for myself, and as much as, you know, I do put a lot of credit into the witch and I do see a lot of empowerment, I've always enjoyed the autopsy of Jane Doe because I find that her story is told as they go through the autopsy if she becomes more and more powerful, also seen as a witch, and the ability to control a scenario without having to do a single thing. always found it always struck me as a very empowering um concept because in a lot of cases women are voiceless and we do lack power in situations and this was a situation where

even someone who was lifeless quite literally lifeless had the most power of everyone in that situation so I'm also going to go with the autopsy of James Doe but I see that Pedro is back and Pedro may be the one that breaks the tie here or not the tie or comes through and maybe makes it a tie or not so Pedro are you who's your mic are you better oh for Pedro well I don't know do Brian or

do one of you want to step in for Pedro for now and give your opinion Brian or Phil and the other one can judge if we need jump in real quick sure why not I It's tough because I understand what you're saying about the female empowerment, but the witch is such a better movie that I have to go with that. Oh, that means Brian has to do the tiebreaker.

Brian, your time is coming. I mean, it's Anya Taylor Joy at her best, man. That is a killer movie. Incredible performance. I couldn't agree, Marfell. If I may interject again. If I was going... I mean, if I was doing this.

just based on what is the better movie. I mean, autopsy of Jane Doe is still a really great movie. But I would, you know, probably pick the witch personally. But if we're thinking specifically about women empowerment,

that's the thing that you need to focus on just saying. I know. That's why that's what I, like I totally, I don't disagree with your opinion. But I still got a role with the witch. Okay.

I'm just saying, I'm just saying you might still think that the witch is. Yeah. I was going to say, you might still think it's more empowering, but just make that your reason instead of it being a better maybe. Do you guys hear me? Oh, Pedro! Okay.

Yes, okay. Yay. Do you or Brian want to be the tiebreaker here? Let me go ahead and untangle this right here. So, yeah, I mean, I'm going to go with the autopsy of Jane Doe for all the reasons you guys have stayed. When I think of the witch, I think more of a family dynamics issue with the thing. that movie, I think they're much like a lot of other supernatural movies that are dealing with families kind of, you know, thrown into chaos. If you see the witch, it's more about like

family dysfunction to me. And so there is some female empowerment there for sure. But I mean, autopsy of Jane Doe is just a great metaphor for just a lot of the injustices that females face on a daily basis. And, you know, it's very cathartic, right? When it's comes to like just, you know, the entire film itself. So I'm going to go with the autopsy of Jane Doe for this one. Oh. Wow. So I guess the autopsy of Jane Doe, if I understand it, is moving forward.

I think it's. Yes, it is. Three to three right now, right? Oh, is it three to three? Never mind, Brian. Oh, because. Yeah, is it three to three? Is it?

Maybe I marked it wrong. Wait, so no, I said it. Jessica said it. Sabrina said the witch. You said the witch. Oh, you're right. Oh. Well, no, it's two to...

All right. Never mind, three, two. That's two to three. Yeah, right. Or the autopsy of Jane go, right? I'm on the... Okay. Thanks, Brian.

It would have been our autopsy anyways. Thanks, Brian. Here we go. And I had moved it forward in the bracket. I don't know if you're doing it on your end, Brian, or Phil, but I've copied it over. So I'm keeping it up it, too. All right. Well, here we go.

Let's move on to the next. Now, I don't think I really need to give an intro to this movie. assuming we've all seen Halloween 1978. And we all know what and who Jamie Lee Curtis is. So we're pitting her up against Happy Death Day, a tree from Happy Death Day, 2017. Have we all seen Happy Death Day? Does anyone need a, you know, a reminder of what Happy Death Day is about?

Are we all good? I have seen it. You haven't seen or you have seen it? I have seen it, sorry. Pedro, you've seen it, right? Yes. Awesome. So we'll start with Jessica again.

Which one do you think represents female empowerment more? I mean, I feel like I clearly need to go with Halloween. Hmm. It's so funny trying to think about this. Huh? It's a weird pairing. It's a weird pairing. Oh, yeah.

I did that purposely, just to be clear. I thought that would be fun. Yeah. This is a fun one. It is funny. just trying to think, you know, better movie versus like what's actually more female empowering. So it is kind of hard. Although in this case, you know, Lori Strode is such a strong final girl.

And because of those tropes of, you know, her being smart and virginal and all of those things and her being able to take those things and use them to her advantage to do what she's. needs to do to me is very empowering, especially because she's trying to protect young children at the same time. And also when we think about the situation where she's literally going around knocking on doors and people are ignoring her, she really has to just take her own power and do what she's got to do because nobody is stepping in to help her out, even though she's in a situation where they should be. And also, this is clearly more grounded in reality than a Happy Death Day, which is very like Groundhogs Day fantastical. But yeah, so I'm going to go with Halloween.

Awesome. Can I go next? Of course you can. Thank you. So, I mean, I get it. Halloween has, you know, she was one of the early final girls back in 1978, I think, yeah, 1978. But I tend to disagree. And again, this is coming from a totally male perspective, right? I mean, I understand. But she doesn't actually kill the boogeyman or even actually Loomis does. And if you really analyze that film, she's very much the victim.

And it takes a man to come in at the end and really get her out of that jam. And, you know, then you have that whole motherly instinct, which I think is very stereotypical as well. as far as her quote unquote job duties, which is very much gender role specific, which is I think it's very anti-feminist. And so I've always disagreed with this film being like a feminist film or a woman empowerment film in general, just because a lot of the tropes are there for her to be saved at the end by a male.

And, you know, so, and actually she does a lot of mistakes. the entire movie. I mean, she's got a knife and she drops it right in the middle of it, right in the middle of the struggle. But it is the better movies. The only one that doesn't get stabbed in the face. Right. But it is a better movie. So again, I'm conflicted. But as far as like female empowerment, I'm going to have to go with Happy Death Day 2017. Hot take. I'm digging the hot take, Pedro. I love it. Sabrina, what are you thinking?

Okay, so please don't kick me out of the podcast. I actually haven't seen the original Halloween. However. It's all good. I have heard a lot about it and know the general. I mean, if you've made it this far in life and don't know the general plot and what have you, then you've missed something. I have heard a lot of the controversy about it being perpetuating sort of that virginal. final girl kind of that trend started about you have to be a certain way to be the final girl

and I know that that has changed a lot in it is of its time that's not really something you run into as much today whereas happy death day is very sex positive you know she's got a lot going against her and she's not a great person but she doesn't she's definitely not virginal she's definitely not, she's not a very good person at all. And that's the point is to, she learns so much and how to change and how to better herself. And I think that's a really important part of being human and an important part of being a woman is supporting other women, which she doesn't do at the beginning, but she gets better at the end. So for that reason, I'm also going with Happy Death Day. Wow. I'm so glad I put these against each other, more or less, because I thought it would be

funny because I can't have you can't have too many serious pairings right we got to have pairings that come in that make it entertain and spice it up a little bit um and you know Sabrina's fine that you haven't seen the original Halloween it's okay don't worry watch any TV show any TV channel in how like in October I'm sure you'll see it on somewhere um I think we've all made some really good points here and I was already leaning towards happy death day because she does solve the problem on her own. She's stuck in this time warp going back. She has to get people to believe her that she's in this time warp. And yeah, she's not a great person. Unlike Lori Strode, who you kind of feel sorry for in a sense, she's me. And, you know, she wanted to get the quote unquote guy. And she's not popular like the other girls. Like there is a little bit of that underdog feeling. But if I look at empowerment, problem solving and kind of just getting it done. Tree definitely gets it done and happy death day. So echoing what Pedro and Sabrina said,

I am also going to go with Happy Death Day. Happy Death Day, Shock Fate moves forward. Hopefully we didn't lose any fans for this podcast now. If you're on jobs, I'll just increase the money I can, Phil. But only for you not to Lance. We talked about that already. Anything you wanted to add, Phil, any comments you wanted to make? Before I move on to the next, I don't want to...

I'd like to throw it out there that Halloween was from 1916. 78 and so that and I do think it has a little bit of female empowerment because she's the only one that fights back everybody else gets killed immediately and she stabs him in the eye with a you know crochet pin so I yeah that would have been my vote not that it matters I mean she does get the jump on them though and the other two couldn't so there's that yeah we get some respect we give some respect you're right and it was a one unquote different time and not as much as another movie that we're going to talk about out here in a little bit because I think that's like the ultimate female empowerment movie, but we'll, and let's keep in mind that if the movie I think you're thinking about, it's literally, it's like a year later. So we're still within the same time frame. I think with Halloween,

I think the misconception of female empowerment is in the distress tolerance that Laurie Strode shows throughout the entire film, which is commendable, right? Because it is a lot, especially in the third act of the film, she deals with so much. Yeah. But ultimately, you know, it does take a guy with a gun to come and see. saver. And, you know, she's very much in shock.

And so maybe, maybe the Laurie store that we meet after this film, which has been defining many different directions with all these, the remakes and sequels. Yeah. Maybe, maybe she's more representative of female empowerment. But the Laurie Strode in this film is very much a stereotype. And so that's why I'm, yeah, happy death day takes this one in my eyes. And let's be clear, not just some guy, a drunk Donald Pleasant shows that the same. Yeah, that is the actor.

Dr. Well, maybe Dr. Loeus is also on the Joy Jews. We don't know, right? Well, and I don't think it's necessarily a negative female stereotype that she is like the good person, the one that's not screwing around with everybody and all that stuff. Like, I think that's a good stereotype to have, you know? Yeah, and it's not really perpetuating, like, a trope yet because this is the first movie that ever dealt with that at all, you know what I mean? So yeah, for sure. Yeah, but yeah, I was definitely thinking for this time period and her being a high school kid and her being like smart enough and observant enough, you know, to to survive and protect the children.

That's kind of where I was coming from. Yeah. Well, and I kind of agree with you that Happy Death Day does sort of define the female empowerment a little bit better on this one. I kind of like the autopsy of Jane Doe did. I can't really argue with that, even though I voted against both of them. That's all right. We need to keep it spicy here, Phil, or what else is the point, right? So we'll move into what I feel is what someone was alluding to earlier.

Alien, 1979, I'm assuming, if not, we've heard of aliens and we've seen it. And we know about what happens. We have a strong female protagonist in this film, as well, as it is up against. Hostel Part 2. This was my pick, because I fucking love this movie. I love all the hostile movies. They are a guilty pleasure. Even Part 3? Yeah, baby. Even Part 3. I love the Vegas shit, Pedro. Yeah, fuck yeah. I don't even remember what happened in Part 3. I'm not entirely sure I've ever seen it. It's fine, Phil. You probably don't need to. It's a Guilature. But Hostel Part 2, simply because we do have a protagonist that gets shit done at the end, who I've always really, really appreciated. So we'll spice this up a little bit.

Pager, why don't you go first? Oh, I mean, Alien, 1979, for sure. I mean, what else could you say? That is the final girl in my eyes, and that is the very definition of female empowerment. And for that time, you know, it's even more magnified because, you know, I think, I don't know, really Scott didn't write this film. I forget his name, but he worked with John Carpenter early on. He wrote this film.

And so, yeah, it took some, you know, for lack of a better term, some balls, I guess you could say, to write this kind of character at a time when these characters were not really being accepted yet. So, yeah, I'm going with Alien. Awesome. Or it took some ovaries, some strong, strong ovaries. Some strong ovaries, right? Some vevos. And we could say wevos because it would cover both. Oh, there we go.

Thank you for being so inclusive. I appreciate it. Sabrina, would you like to go next? What are you thinking? Okay, so another instance where I haven't seen one of the films, I have seen Alien to make that clear. Otherwise, I'll definitely get kicked off the podcast. So I can't speak for the hostile films

and how it targets female empowerment. I'm sure it does. Maybe it's something I need to dip into, but to give my point on Alien, because it was a film I was going to pick, but I didn't want to pick things I assumed other people would pick. science fiction has always been full of diversity and changing the narrative

and alien is case in point you've got you've got Sigourney Weaver who just takes over she doesn't care about anything but surviving and she's so strong and it shows throughout the whole film and she's another example of a final girl I think in

in a sense that everyone looks up to her and everyone will continue to look up to her, like for generations in my opinion. And I just feel like the only thing I would say that maybe would knock it down a tiny, tiny bit is that I think that this film could be done with anyone in that role, but the fact that it was a woman is what makes this a classic female empowerment film. that's part of the reason I actually like it just to jump off of that because I like that it's a role that could be filled by anyone it doesn't necessarily have to be a woman but it is and she's like the leader and I love that yeah I love it too Phil do we can we swear on this podcast you guys swear yeah yeah absolutely oh fuck yeah Sabrina that's what I'm talking about laying it down I agree but you know what we got another heavy hitter coming in here so Jessica what are you thinking?

Yeah, so I apologize. The only movie in this whole bracket I haven't seen is Hostel Part 2. And I will watch it eventually. I just haven't gotten to it yet, but I was reading the synopsis just so I could say that I at least kind of tried to give it some credit, but there's no way in my mind that anything on this bracket is beating Alien. to me alien is number one perfect movie and a great female empowerment movie maybe someone else could have played that role but I don't think that it could have been as great with somebody else

playing that role I think that Ellen Ripley is you know one of the best characters that there's ever been and I literally love every single alien movie even for and I think a lot of that has to do with the female empowerment that's kind of strewn throughout all of them, even for, you know, when she makes like a weird humanoid baby with the alien queen, she's still like,

she's still very much like female empowerment in that movie as well. But I just love how strong she is. I think that this character is kind of set up my love for strong female characters throughout my entire life. So I definitely have to give it to Sigourney Weaver as really.

She just kicks ass. She takes charge. She, you know, care, she does care about her crew, and she tries to be a good leader, but also doesn't have time for bullshit, and just does what she needs to do.

So I just love her. She's so strong and reasonable and great. It's just, it's perfect. Can I jump in and say what? Of course. Nothing about her screams like bombshell. You know what I mean? I was just going to say that.

Just a regular woman. I was going to say she's not that conventional Hollywood expectation of beauty, but she's so strong and she is beautiful. And I think it's sort of carved a way of moving away from this, you know, cookie cutter expectation of what is beauty and looking at it at a different lens and also putting in that your beauty. isn't what makes you strong. Right.

Yes. Beautifully said. I did this pairing simply because I love the scene in Happy Death Day, where she, not Happy Death Day, fuck my life. Hostile Part 2, that. She is confronting the crazy doctor who's played by the same guy who's in suits. And she has enough money to fucking buy off the people that are doing,

running this whole thing, and she fucks him up. Only reason I put this in here. It's kind of like how Detroit Lions made it a lot further than anyone thought they were going to do for any NFL fans here, but couldn't get it done. We all know aliens are moving forward. So aliens it is. Thank you for humoring me with bringing in a guilty pleasure. And I absolutely love Hostel 3. Phil, you and I can do a watch party on that.

We'll do a Patreon exclusive. How does that? Oh, let's do it. So our next one, and I'm not an expert on the one. I can't remember who brought Gerald's game to the table. Sabrina was that you or Jessica? I think it was me. I may get you to give a little bit of an overview of that one if you don't mind,

only because I've never seen it. So do you mind giving us a little synopsis? Yeah, sure. Well, in Gerald's game, so Carla Gagino and her, sorry, Carla Gagino's character, let me see, which is Jesse. I should have known that because that's my name. And her husband, who's played by Bruce Greenwood,

he's Gerald, of course. They kind of go away for a weekend getaway to kind of like spice up their marriage. And Jesse's character, she has a big secret in her life that she's been holding on to since she was a kid. And it's one of the reasons that she's kind of had intimacy problems

throughout her life. And she has this occurrence come up. that puts her life at risk. And so it's kind of this like half survival movie, having to be really smart and figure shit out when your body is like starting to fail on you with no help, but also while facing her trauma. And so I think it's super empowering

because she has to kind of deal with so much all at once just to be able to survive. And it all makes sense that she's doing. this, you know, and having to face her trauma because everything kind of plays into each other and weaves into this, like, wonderful story that is very empowering. And then especially in the end, the way she gets to face another kind of evil that's happened in her life. And really look it in the eyes. It's just to me, it's just all empowerment. Agreed. And she's handcuffed to a bed for, like, what is it, majority of the film, would you say? 90% she's handcuffed.

to the bed? Yes. Okay. So it's a one shot. Basically, it's a one shot film in the sense that it's filmed in, you know, one, one scenery. I guess one shot's not the right word, one scenery type film. Against Hellraiser, which I'm hoping we've all seen Hellraiser, if not Sabrina, just Google it. It's fine.

You can read it real quick if you haven't for some reason, though I feel like you probably watched it. It seems like your jam. Hellraiser were referring to Christy in the Hellraiser. The first one, that's who I was thinking of when I thought. of female empowerment. So, I know Jessica, we kind of got you to talk a little bit about Gerald's game there. Would you like to kind of continue and talk about what your pick would be? I mean, Hellraiser is a movie that I absolutely adore and have for most of my life. So this is another case of I like Hellraiser more, but I think if I'm specifically, you know,

thinking just about female empowerment, I think that I have to go with Gerald's game just because that whole trauma, half of her story is just so powerful and how she has to face it and overcome it. But I love Hellraiser. Well, we can love and we can choose one to be the best. So it's all good.

So, Pedro, I see you're unmuted. Would you like to go? Yes. Yeah, tough choice here. Again, for all the reasons that Jessica stated, I'm going to go with Gerald's Game 2017 just because, yeah, it was a tough choice. Both of these films are full of metaphors,

you know, sexual repression, gender roles, et cetera. But I think for the topic that we're covering, Gerald's game is the better movie. So I'm going to go with Gerald's game. Well, I'm going to go next to put Sabrina in the hot seat because I'm going to go with Hellraiser. That's to fucking stir shit up a bit.

And also because I do think it's more empowering. I think Christy, A, actually looks like a young individual that's maybe late teens, early 20s. And I particularly love how she has to fight against several villains in this. Not only that she has to fight against pinhead. She has to fight against her creepy fucking reepy uncle that she needs to fucking deal with. She's seen some fucking vile shit. When he gets pulled apart by the chains, that shit is, or her dad gets pulled up. her dad, I can't remember now.

Someone gets pulled apart by the chains. And that shit is fucking vile. And throughout the entire thing, she manages to keep her cool enough. Like, if that was happening to me, I'd be peeing my pants in probably a fucking corner crying, being like, well, I get to get to torture me now. Here we go, right? Like, I don't know if I would have the stana that she has to basically fight shit from hell. Like, you don't get more fucked up than fighting shit from hell.

So I'm going to go with Christy, though I do appreciate Jessica your review with Gerald's game and I do have to watch it. It is on my watch list. So thank you for giving such a really great overview of it. It does sound quite empowering. But Sabrina, you're the deciding factor here. Where are we going? I really shouldn't be the deciding factor because I haven't seen either of these. I have read both the authors and the reason I haven't watched them is because I haven't read those particular books yet and I will not watch a film if I have not read the book. And I didn't have time. I did not have time to read that many books. you didn't have time to read all these books this week?

No. No, I tried. A Google synopsis on Wikipedia is just fine. You got the just of it. I have. I have. And I know a fair amount about Gerald's game, because, again, well, both have been around for a very long time. But based on what you guys have said, and maybe my opinion shouldn't be part of this,

if somebody else wants to be the deciding factor, it's. feels like to me, based on the conversations that have been had here, is that Hellraiser is more about her fighting back against, as you mentioned, multiple villains from hell. It sounds like she had a lot of her own stuff to deal with as well, as you mentioned, some creepy uncle. And based on the Wikipedia summary, at the end, it says, Christy's boyfriend, Steve, arrives. And so it sounds like he wasn't really there for like the main part of the fight, which I do appreciate. And correct me if I'm wrong on any of that, but I kind of want to stay neutral

if somebody else wants to be the deciding factor on this one. Oh, that's fine, Sabrina. I don't know, Phil, Brian, do one of you want to come in with a decision? Brian, you want to take it? I got to go with Christy Cotton. She not only had to deal with everything that was mentioned, I believe, if I remember the movie correctly, she also had to deal with some creepy movers.

Yes. The move was creepy too. Everyone was creepy. You're right, Brian. Well, that could... So you're voting Hellraiser? That's a tie then, because Sabrina's very much being neutral on this. So, Phil.

I gotta go Gerald's game. Hellraiser never struck me as female empowering. I love the movie. But, I mean, I guess it is, if you really think about it like that. It just never clicked like that. although I don't know Gerald's game I guess is not I guess you can make the same argument for that one

I don't know you to commit okay all right I'm gonna commit to Gerald's game is gonna be my is gonna be my vote for a better female empowerment movie Christy Christy made a deal with pinhead

she had enough in her to make a deal with the devil I'm probably sure to read watch I do you feel like as far as female empowerment goes that Christy could have just been anybody who had to suddenly deal with a bunch of people from hell, not even necessarily a woman, where the things that happened to Jesse and Gerald's game are very female-specific.

Just my input. And actually, for Hellraiser, I would feel like Julia's character is more like female empowerment than Christy's. That's just my own personal. That's interesting. Yeah, it's a fair argument. Yeah, that's what I was thinking too. And so even with Gerald's game,

Like, I feel like the entire film is focused on female empowerment, whereas Hallraiser, yeah, like any film that's going to have a final girl, it's going to have little, little sprinkles here and there of female empowerment. But Gerald's game's entire focus is on female empowerment. So that's why I picked Gerald's game. That's a great point. It's all good. I like how it took all of us to make that decision. That was quite interesting. We'll see how far Gerald's brain goes moving forward.

Well, it's not a bit alien. Spoiler alert. Sorry. Now no one's going to listen. Well, Lance may show up, everyone. He may want to stay in case Lance joins us. Well, he's on the beach right now. So I don't think I suggested this one, but this is one of my all-time favorite films.

A Girl Walks Home Alone at Night. Excellent film. Who brought this to the table? That was me. I love this movie. You and I, Soul Sisters, right here. This was referred to me by another podcaster, and I thought, one, it was an incredible vampire film. Definitely strong female empowerment vibes.

But, you know, Jessica, I will let you kind of take it once I give the intro of the movie that it's going against. The one that is going against is Invisible Man 2020, which I feel like I reviewed actually with Phil and Brian and Pedro a million. years ago during COVID. Really? Yeah. Like I feel she's in the 2020. So gentlemen, here we are again. I'm a big fan of this film.

I thought it was a great readaptation of the Invisible Man. I find the main character. I'm just going to say her first name because I can't remember her last thing now. Elizabeth, very empowering throughout this. No one believed her as being a domestic abuse victim in the sense that, you know, her abuser is still there. and she's fighting against something that she cannot see. And got to Jessica's point,

this would not work the same if it wasn't a female in this role because of how abused victims are treated. So Jessica, though, why don't you bring us in? Talk a little bit about maybe your pick here and how you feel it goes up against Invisible Man 2020. Yeah. So with a girl walks home alone at night, it's an Iranian ghost town.

and it's a place that wreaks of death and loneliness and the townspeople are unaware that they're being stalked by a lonesome vampire. So that's just a little synopsis for people who haven't seen it because it's not one of those ones that everybody's seen. But the vampire is a female character. And this movie is actually an Iranian movie. And so already that kind of, because this is directed and written by Anna Lili Emmerpur, who's female, And, you know, it being Iranian, that's already kind of like a big deal as far as female empowerment overall. And I do love her, the main character who's just called The Girl, played by Sheila Vand. And she comes into this kind of ghost town and really just like takes what she needs.

And people think that because she's a girl walking around alone at night that they can take advantage of her. and because of that they're you know met with their demise um and her i just love how um confident her character is and how she has this kind of this more this morality about her you know but also this kind of like this is just the way things are um reasonableness about her as well uh but going up against the invisible man honestly i think i would have to go with the invisible man because of what you had mentioned before heather about how nobody believes her and nobody listens to her um i feel like that's something that a lot of women specifically have to deal with all the time when it comes to abuse and just in general you know we're always just like hysterical about things um because we're thought of as more

emotional and as dramatic dramatizing events. So I think because of that and because of how she very smartly gets her revenge at the end and, you know, in doing so is able to survive, I feel like I have to give it to the invisible man. Well, thank you, Jessica. Pedro. What do you think? I was going to say, yeah, I'm going to go with the invisible man as well.

you know, domestic violence is a real thing, right? And I think there's, you know, we talked a lot about metaphors and symbolism. And there is a lot of that in this film, just as, you know, women not having a voice. And one of the things with these films, and we're also going to talk, I'm also going to bring it up in the next film,

within the context of the film. And when I think about female empowering films, I also think about how males are represented in these films. And you get a sense of entitlement, with the quote-unquote invisible man in this film. And just the way that he manipulates and abuses the female. I forget her name in the movie, but she does a great job. And so you sense the frustration, right?

You could see it. And what I like about this film, too, is that she uses her own resources that are available to her. Because in the third act, like, you know, she's already kind of torn all the way down. You know, she's got nobody believes her. I believe there's even there's that scene when she's having dinner with her friend

and the invisible man kind of like he slashes her friend's throat if I remember correctly which is a little cartoony and that's one of the scenes that kind of takes me out but still the point is that

she's very much against the wall at this point and she uses her own smarts and her own intellect you know to get even with him at the end So yeah, I'm going to go with The Invisible Man. Awesome.

And yes, you do remember that scene. Well, it was her sister, but same thing. Oh, her sister, yes. It was a little shocking. I remember when I saw it in the theater. It's like, holy fuck. It definitely threw me off the first time it happened. Sabrina, what are you thinking?

So I promise I've seen more films on the other side of this bracket than this side. I haven't seen either of these, but I know very quite a bit about the Invisible Man because it's obviously a very old story. and because I know a substantial amount about it and because I feel like with the domestic violence and just the pairing of it being about like an invisible man and how women are not believed and they historically have been condemned to psych wards, asylum, sanitariums, what have you, for speaking up against domestic violence or sexual violence. for that reason alone, let alone the performance I know Elizabeth Moss does in that film, I have to go with that one.

It just feel like it echoes a very dark history of being silenced in women. Excellent. And thank you for getting Elizabeth's last name for us. We all couldn't remember. So thank you for bringing that in. And I definitely recommend that Sabrina. know you watch a girl walks home alone at night, I think you would actually quite enjoy it. I think that would be right if you get a chance to. Yes, I will. Kate actually told me to watch that one for this podcast so I could choose it. I will just tell her that you did.

It's okay. Okay. We'll lie her. She's not here anyway. Yeah. Sorry, Kate. Sorry, Kate. Invisible man's moving forward.

The next two are also kind of fun. I'll start with the bottom one because the bottom one is the one I chose. It's a shutter film that came out in 2018, and it was called Revenge. Anyone hear of it? Just unmute and say yes if you watched it. Wow. Oh, yeah. Oh, yes.

You said that's watched it? I've watched it. You've watched it, so everyone's seen it? Okay. Yeah, we've seen it. Well, of course. You're the experts. Well, I should think anything less, right?

Well, I'm glad we've all seen it then, so I don't have to really. I'll go over a little bit for you, Sabrina, if you haven't had a chance to see it. It's about a young woman who is, visiting her rich boyfriend basically I'm just going to summarize and things don't go well she finds out that he isn't who she thinks he is and she gets left for dead and she

needs to fuck shit up for good 90 minutes of this film so it's her basically fucking shit up that's revenge and then death proof have we all seen death proof of course that's a great fucking movie nice good old

Kurt Russell so this is and this movie's been criticized I've I listened to someone talk about this recently because of the chatter that happens. There's a long part of just conversation between the friends and some people find that boring. I always found it engaging and I felt it was great character development. And the Kurt Russell goes to fuck shit up and they fuck up shit back. So Pedro, why don't we start with you? Yeah, well, I mean, kind of like what I was talking about with the invisible man, I'm going to also go with death proof for the same reason.

I mean, I guess revenge has it as well. but, you know, that proof to me is a better film, and it's also representative of female empowerment. Again, looking at how stuntman Mike, how entitled he is, and how much of a, how little he respects females, right? Because he's getting joy out of this.

And so, yeah, but, and to be fair, I mean, we only see a portion of what he's done. For all we know, he doesn't discriminate it, but he definitely, really in this film he's he's focused on on females and and one of the things that stands out to me as far as like the injustice and again the male privilege is how easy he gets away with with his first murders right when he kills um uh the four the four young ladies on the road which is a phenomenal scene by the way that that scene itself makes it worth the stun in that film is amazing um

so the the cathartic portion of the film which is in the third act um really hits home, you know, even more because, again, I think the dialogue is there to kind of enhance the third act, which it does, in my opinion. And so at the end, when the other four females that he tries to kill, once they get the upper hand, we see how little he becomes, right? He becomes a coward, and he literally starts crying at one point. And so, you know, Kurt Russell's performance is amazing, too, by the way. So yeah, no, this is very representative of female empowerment. And not only the female empowerment part, but also the culture that we live in, again, because I state, you know, just the way the first murders get discarded by those sheriffs, right? And it's like, well, if there was any reason or to believe that these murders would have been done by a female, the reaction would have been completely different.

So I'm going to go with death proof on this one. Awesome. Sabrina, had you seen either one? I've seen death proof. Oh, boy, yeah. And I know a bit about revenge because it is on my watch list. For me, it's definitely deathproof because it's not about revenge. And, well, okay, it is about revenge, but it's not about revenge in regards to sexual assault.

Because I know there's a big conversation going on right now about a lot. of films and TV shows are putting in you can be a strong character if you've been sexually assaulted and I love the focus on you can be a strong woman without having that history and I think that that's a really important thing to both are valid but it's not the only reason that you can be strong you know overcoming that sort of awful trauma in death proof to me it's It's just, I like the conversations that the women have, and I wonder. Sabrina. There you go.

And did they have a problem with the conversation and reservoir dogs? I was going to say, exactly. Isn't conversation kind of what he does? Right. He is what he does. That's his films. There's a big contingency of people who just do not like Tarantino movies. Yes.

I'm not a huge fan of Tarantino, all of his stuff, but I like a lot of his stuff. Like, for me, it's hit and miss with him. But death proof is definitely one of those films where the whole time you're just really, you know, where they're just literally kicking the shit out of him. Like, okay. Yeah. It felt it felt more raw that way than if they had just like, you know, shot him or something like that. It was just, it was so much stronger that way. So death proof is my pick for this one for sure.

And I love Kurt Russell, but I also love that scene. Yes. Sabrina, I really applaud the point you just made there about sexual assault and women not only fighting back for that. I think that's a very good point, especially with horror movies we've seen over the last couple of years. And I think part of that is trying to bring sexual assault knowledge at the table to understand how common it is. But I think your point there was quite valid, and I appreciate you sharing that. Jessica, what do you thinking? Yeah, I'm definitely going with deathproof.

love death proof and I think it's very very empowering for women in so many different ways. A couple of points because everyone's made great points already so I'll bring a couple of different ones. There's like the scene when they're in the restaurant and two of the girls are stunt women, you know, so they're saying they're gearheads. They grew up with Vanishing Point and all these car movies where the other girls, you know, they grew up watching pretty and pink because they're normal. And Abernathy, one of the normal girls, says, what, you didn't watch John Hughes movies to one of the gearheads? And she goes, of course I did. I'm a girl. And then she says, but I also watched car movies. So I just love those little kind of bits of conversation throughout,

where they're kind of talking about their gender fluidity a bit while also kind of focusing on it. But then also, it seems like stuntman Mike, you know, the reason why he's even doing this and a serial killer in this way is because he's a stunt man and they're just not really used anymore because now we have CGI and all these things that have kind of taken his job. And so half of why he does this is just like as a thrill seeker, you know, because he doesn't get that adrenaline rush anymore that he used to from doing stunts. And it's like when he focuses on this new set of girls, he's kind of upping the ante because they are half stunt women and he thinks that he's still going to have the upper hand just because

they're women but they're also adrenaline thrill seekers you know who happen to be women and so they use that to their advantage at the end and it's just such a great ending and this is like a real like you go girl moment you know when people that's kind of been a trend lately that people use for certain movies the like yeah you go girl but I feel like this is really like actually yes you go girl oh fuck yeah I

you know I love going last because it's great you can all say it and I can just agree I really don't have much to add to this you've all really hit it like death proof is clearly the winner and we'll be moving forward so thank you for sharing your thoughts although revenge is a great movie I recommend it is it is actually a really good one on the shutter and I'm so glad while of course

these gentlemen reviewed it, but I'm glad that people have watched it because it is quite going when I agree, Phil. American mirror. Sorry. Going back to that's just because it, you know, another thing about it, it's such a great film. And again, you guys have talked about what the dialogue is important. I also love, like, that diner scene where they are talking about being gearheads.

I love the reveal of Stunman Mike just being in the background where you see it towards the very end. Yeah. This guy's like a peeping Tom. He's a murder. He's like, so you could tell this guy has, he has like some bad, like, mommy issues, too. Like if we're to explore this character more in depth, he's got a lot of serious problems. And so, yeah, I know, this is just wanted to say this is a great film.

Agreed. Agreed. I'm glad that we got to bring a variety to the table. And the next pairing is definitely a variety. American Mary 2012. It's been a while since I've seen this one. I am a big fan of this film. I had to read the synopsis to remind me, and it took me all back to how much I invested in this

because I worked for post-secondary institutions and tuition, it's fucking. expensive. So I could see how someone would be driven to engage in some of the shady underground body shit that I'm like, this could possibly happen and goes on. I did not bring it to the table. I can't remember who did. Was it Jessica again? I think it was me. I'm pretty sure it was me. Awesome. I'll get you to go first after I introduce the next one. And then I brought, I think I brought up audition. I think that was me. This is a, I believe it's a Japanese film. I want to make sure that I or I think it is. It is.

I was sure it was Canadian or Japanese and I don't want to get that wrong. I, this was a long time anticipated watch for me because I just hadn't got around to seeing it, but I love Japanese films for so many reasons. And one of them is that they don't shy away from dark shit. And I absolutely love the lead protagonist in this who just does whatever the fuck she wants and doesn't care who she takes down with her and uses marriage as kind of in her favor, which marriage isn't always in a female's favor to give what she wants. So Jessica, do you want to lead us in in a little bit of a conversation here and talk about

maybe a little bit while you brought American Mary and which one you think is more empowering? Yeah, so American Mary follows Mary and she's a medical student, although she does get sexually assaulted partway through by, I can't remember if it's like one of her teachers or a call, you know, like basically a, a colleague, you know, from the medical school, um, takes advantage of her. And, um, she ends up, you know, dropping out afterwards. But then she ends up doing some like under the table surgery, I guess for, for, uh, lack of a better term. Um, and she starts doing all these body modifications, which are like very empowering for her clients, especially one of her female clients in particular. And, um, she really takes back her power and kind of,

becomes she takes revenge basically she does take her own revenge and is able to use her skills in her own way after dropping out of school you know when she's not going to put up with that shit that she had to deal with so that's why I chose it and even though it does deal with sexual assault that's not the only thing it deals with you know because she does get to still use her skill set that she had to work so hard for and go to school for and then then, you know, basically be forced to, like, drop out of school as well. And then also get to take her revenge. So I think it's very empowering, not that everything, you know,

ends up working out for her in the end. But, you know, if it's worth it, then it's worth it. I do also like audition, although it's been a very long time since I've seen it. And I'm trying to remember if the main character's motivations were, actual motivations from anything or if she's just crazy? Well, she had been abused and she was kind of, you know, believed everyone. Like, yeah, she's a little bit of both. I would say there's a whole mixture of things going in here.

You know, I think the biggest thing is it's, you know, in a very hierarchical structure where she doesn't have a lot of power and she's taking power back through other means, right? Means of control, means of torture, basically trying to get her power back. Yeah. I do love her glee while she's torturing. That's amazing, especially because she was lied to. You know, the whole reason she met this man was like a total lie and a setup.

So I totally get that. But I think that I will have to go with American Mary on this one. All right. I'll go with Sabrina next and we'll save Pedro for the end. Sabrina. So I know a fair amount about American Mary, and I've never heard of audition before this podcast. But kind of brushing up on American Mary,

it's like she's a medical student. And I want to preface with my last comment about, like, revenge, sexual assault kind of films. I'm not saying that they don't have a role because they absolutely do. And I think those stories are valid. And like, if a friend of mine came up to me and said, hey, I killed my rapist, I'd be like, okay, that's we're going to figure this out.

How do we cover this up? Yeah, exactly. Just to make it clear that these stories are also important to tell. But I'm going to go with American Mary. I haven't seen an audition. But I mean, she's educated. She, you know, it's about revenge and getting back at the people who have harmed you. But also, I love this line here of she takes clients for extreme body,

modifications to solve her financial troubles and I'm so here for a boss queen. Yes. That's a great, that's a great description. So Pedro, what are you thinking? Well, I'm going to go with audition just because, you know, I think about the culture in which this film was made, which is the Japanese culture, which, you know, the patriarchy is still very much a thing there now. So it's, to me, I think of filmmakers that have the current.

courage to do that, especially like Takeshi Mikey, who's a male, and he says, I'm going to write a female empowerment film. And when you see the film, I mean, yeah, she is bad shit crazy, but it was just the world that she lives in kind of drove her to that. And when you see her torture, the guy who, again, try to manipulate her, there's this cathartic energy with her. And I think for a lot of females, especially in that culture, in the Japanese culture, that saw this film, I mean, I there was this cathartic response to it as well just because you know they live in a world where they have no voice and it's just it's very crazy making so um so i'm going to go with with audition well thank you i think we're going to have to do a tiebreaker which is fun because i'm also going to

go with audition for similar reasons you gave pedro is i really do believe that this is an individual who has been pushed down not that american marry like the lead in that hasn't been she absolutely has. But when I think of the oppressive culture in a whole, and I think of her using marriage and love and sex as a mean of gaining that power back, I kind of alluded to it earlier. That's what strikes me as very empowering. But let's see, who wants to do the tiebreaker, Brian or Phil? Who's seen both? Brian, you want to take it over? Because I don't think I've seen either one of these. I'm going to have to go with the American Mary, only because I haven't seen audition. And, like, 20 years.

It does stay with you, though. For people that haven't seen audition, if you see it once, there's certain scenes that you're never going to forget. I'll just leave it at that. I remember the scene. I know, I remember the scenes that you're probably talking about, but the overall storyline, I don't.

Oh, that's okay. And that's what this comes down to, right? Sometimes we have movies that we haven't seen, and both are excellent, and American Mary is moving on. So we're going to go back in time a little bit here, and we're going to do some little bit of French filming as well. So the movie Raw, 2016, has everyone seen Raw or at least heard of it?

Okay. Okay. So, Raw. About two sisters who go to university and find out that when they are forced to eat meat, that one, they have uncontrollable urges or the one has uncontrollable urges. And then the second is the Stefford Wives. I've seen the remake with Nicole Kidman, which I did like, but no one likes remakes. There's a shitload of remakes of those Stepford Wives.

It seems like he's paid every like 10 years. I've only seen Nicole Kidman one. What's the other ones? They give them different names. Oh, I get what you're saying. Like it's the same thing, only a different movie. Okay, sorry, yeah. Yeah, I go you're putting down, Pedro.

But I chose the OG, the OG Stepford Wives about basically a situation where women are being programmed to serve men and to meet all of their needs. until one fight back. So Pedro, would you like to start us off? Well, I'm going to go with the step for wives just because of your synopsis. I mean, what else could be said? This film, this story, which like I said earlier, has been told many, many times. It's literally about female empowerment. And it's very intentional in the way it's presented.

And so, yeah, that's – and plus I haven't seen Rawls since it came out, so I don't remember much about it. But I'm going to go with the Steffer Wives. Fair enough. Jessica. I'm actually going to go with Raw just because at the end of the Stepford wives, you know, sadly all the wives lose,

which sucks. You're really rooting for the main character. But I do love the Stepford Wives so much. And I love seeing that fight. And I do love that towards the end when she goes to see a therapist and she's telling her her crazy theory that this female therapist believes her and tells her like, you know what, just get the hell out of town.

I'm not going to be here for a few days, but just call me. I'm going to call you when I get back and we'll figure this out. And I really appreciated that scene. But in Raw, I feel like there's just so many different themes happening that have to do with coming of age as a woman specifically and finding out, you know, about kind of like a metaphor for like being a woman, I think, you know, her whole experience. and the thing that she's inherited from her mother as well as her sister. Because she really likes eating meat?

No, just because it's this whole thing that like they've inherited specifically from their mother, right? Yeah. And the father, you know, still loves and supports his wife and he realizes that she has this power, you know, that she's learned how to control and these girls haven't yet. But I think that as women, we all have this kind of. of like crazy unbounded power that we just need to learn how to tap into. And, you know, I hate that we'd have to like keep it in control and keep it in check for society's sake. But, you know, that's how I kind of like to take it. Also, I'm vegan, so I did appreciate, I did appreciate

that aspect of the story. Now, have you ever had meat ever in your, like, previously to becoming vegan or is it been a lifetime? Yes. Yes. A lifetime. Okay. Yeah. I've been vegan. since 2014 and then before that I was a vegetarian I don't know for like 10 years or something but up until I was 18 I ate meat oh well good for you it's a big that's a big lifestyle change so good for you um Sabrina um so I recently watched raw because I was having the wheels spin about what I wanted to bring to the podcast and raw was one of the ones that I wanted to but it didn't quite make the cut so I'm glad somebody else who Jessica was it you or was it Heather I believe it was me I don't think it was me but I don't really think it's a good choice it is a good choice

I because I haven't seen the Steppford wives again it's a book I have to read it that's and you didn't read it this week as well Sabrina honestly honestly I could have because it's only 148 pages I probably could have cracked it out but Oh, dang. I didn't really. Life. Yes. Jobs.

Raw. Jobs, God. What I really liked about Raw was that it was a story about sisters. And the relationship you have with your sister as someone with an older sister, they can be very complicated. And I'm lucky that mine isn't. But seeing the different dynamic between, you know, when your sister moves out and moves on and, you know, she discovered, oh, her sister's eating meat.

And she was appalled by it. And she came around to understanding. And I think there's a moment in that film where the younger sister, I'm spacing on their names, she's eating the older sister's finger. And I was like, oh, no, the older sister's going to flip out. And she gives her a look, this knowing look. And that's kind of when the point in the movie

where I went, huh, something's really off here. And I wasn't going to pick it. But the ending when the dad, reveals that the mom is like that too and it's like is it the family is it all women like what is the are they vampires are they cannibals like it's there's so much left unanswered but i think that that is such an important part about like what we go through at a coming of age is not everything gets answered and so i think raw because of the sister like relationship and the you know the mom's relationship and it all worked really well for me so i'm going to go with raw for that one

I echo the sentiments. I also am going to go with Raw. And for me, the biggest reason is I think it pushes against oppression. When I watched Raw, I think about how, you know, no matter how we dice that women are oppressed more than men in society, it's just how it is. And I think this movie really represented that pushback. Kind of same reasons why I enjoyed audition.

It's that pushback against the oppression. So Raw will be moving forward. And now we flip to the other side of the bracket. And I know, Sabrina, you were saying earlier, you've seen more movies on this side. And there's one movie in particular that my friend, you will be leading the charge on because I unfortunately did not get a chance to watch it this week.

But we will start off first with Jennifer's Body from 2009. Man, this is a fucking fun movie. I think, Jessica, did you choose this one as well? No, I don't think this one was me. No, Sabrina, did you choose this or did I just add this randomly? I chose this one. Oh, so you're going to be going first, Sabrina. So we'll have Jennifer's body

When I'm done introducing it against the other film Which I believe I chose the other film You can maybe go into a little bit more about Jennifer's body In case I'm pretty sure we've all seen it But Swallow 2020 This movie really affected me when it came out It's about a woman who is In a marriage

That is not necessarily the most healthiest marriage And from the outside looking in it would look like it is But she's very much controlled by her husband her in-laws and she is pregnant and swallowing inanamic objects to gain some sort of control back over her life. I was in a very previously a domestic violence-based marriage and had some pretty unfortunate experiences in that marriage. And I think for this movie, it connected more to me on that angle on how this woman eventually empowers herself, which starts with the swallowing, which is, believe it or not, taking back power in her life to kind of overcome and

leave her situation, which is why I chose that in case no one has ever seen it. It is from 2020. But Sabrina, do you want to lead us in with maybe a little bit of thought on Jennifer's body and which one you think is more empowering? Yeah, for sure. I haven't seen swallow because I cannot find where to watch it. So if you know where to watch it in Canada, please let me know. I'll hook you up. I'll find it. Thank you. Thank you. I chose Jennifer's body, because it's, I mean, it's hilarious for one. And it felt like it was a time, a film that came out before the world was ready

and it's kind of kind of making its way back into conversation now because women are taking back that, you know, we are witches, you can call us sluts, we don't care. Like it's an empowering term to be sex positive. Obviously, with that said, I do not condemn Jennifer, because a lot of the boys she eats aren't bad people. So she doesn't target the people who are terrible, but I think in a way it,

because people see her as this very sexual human being, that's kind of what they reduce her to. And unfortunately, the marketing for that film also reduced her to that. And so it's sort of a coming back from being boxed into this one dynamic and then exploding because you've been pushed so far, you've been possessed by a demon. But I think where the strength comes in that film is with Amanda Seyfried's character, and no one's going to believe her.

No one believes her. Her boyfriend doesn't believe her that Jennifer is eating boys. And she's looking out to stop that. And she's such a meek character, and she comes so into herself at the end. And, you know, I'm assuming everyone's seen it because it's a classic. So it's for me the empowerment is more about Amanda's character and how she overcomes. Like killing your best friend is, I couldn't do it. Even if she was possessed by a demon, that's a really hard thing to do, I'm assuming.

But with everything you've mentioned with Swallow, that taking back control, like that is such an important thing. Like throughout history, women haven't had control over their bodies. We still don't have control over our bodies in a lot of places in the world. and in relationships you can be boxed in and you don't have a way out as much as people can say oh you should have just left well it's not that easy because the control has been taken away from you so her swallowing things to take back that control

I think it's such an important conversation and I'm glad you brought it to the table even if I haven't seen it I know how much that film stands for and it covers a topic of mental health and taking back that control So this is a tough one for me Because from the sounds of it Swallow sounds like it has more

empowerment in it than Jennifer's body So are you going with Swallow then? I think so As weird as that is Plot twist Only here on the horror returns Right guys?

Getting more Patreon All right Pedro do you want to go? Yeah yeah no yeah Going by what all of you have been saying This is a very difficult choice they both tackle different things that kind of lead to the same place.

Heather, like you were saying about swaloges, females using coping skills, right? Maladaptive coping skills to deal with the stressors of being a female in a world that's very much male-dominated. It's a common thread, and it's a very real threat. So it's very important to have these kind of films

on the other side of that. Jennifer's body, I mean, you know, like Sabrina was saying, it's just a fun film, but it's also, there's a lot of, you know, metaphors there as well. Like, like, you know, being a female who's sex positive, who actually ends up being punished for that, you know,

because when she goes to meet this band and, you know, they sacrifice her to Satan, which there's a, you know, there could be a tingle of sexual abuse there as well, because we don't really know what exactly that entails. But because she wasn't a virgin, you know, she ends up become this monster. And again, it just, it's our society telling us that females shouldn't be sex, positive, right? They should be virginal.

So, yeah, this is a very difficult one for me. I'm going to go with Jennifer's body. Just as a tiebreaker for me, I think it's a more watchable film. Both of them have very great good messages that they deliver, but I think I would, you know, I would see Jennifer's body more than I would see Swallow. So I'm going to go with Jennifer's body. Awesome. Jessica, bring us in. Yeah. So for Swallow, I I do see a lot of female empowerment in this, especially because the main character just has so much development from the beginning of the film to the end.

I do see it more as a drama than a horror movie, really, and a character study. But, you know, Hunter, she starts out as very meek and well-mannered. And she's marrying this guy who seems like a pretty good guy. But he reveals himself to be a super douche by the time we get to the end of the movie. And as you said, she starts swallowing inanimate objects as a coping mechanism just to have any kind of monocum of control in her life. And then it's later revealed that she is the result of a rape. So her mother was actually raped by a stranger. And that's her biological father that she's never met.

And so she has to confront all of this trauma that has literally been with her her entire life. And so I do think it's very empowering, especially because of where she ends up, because she does end up running away from her husband and not just playing the role she's supposed to and confronting her biological father. But I think that Jennifer's body also has a lot of female empowerment on different levels. Like it's written and directed by women. And then it wasn't appreciated at the time for what it was doing. and now it's become this really big, like, female empowerment cult classic. I like that both Jennifer and Needy have their own roles to play as far as female empowerment go, you know, because as it was mentioned, Jennifer is basically raped.

She's supposed to be a virgin. This ends up backfiring in the ritual because she's not a virgin. so she's like being punished for being a sexual being and taking power in her own hands. And I love when she says, you know, I'm not killing people. I'm killing boys or I'm not eating people. I'm eating boys. I think that that's just such a fun line to portray the female empowerment that we're trying to convey in the story. And then needy too, having to come up not just to kill her best friend who's a female,

but having to come to terms with the fact that throughout their childhood, she's kind of just been like the dormant in the friendship and needing to find her voice and her power. And then when she does find her power, she uses it to take revenge for her friend, you know, that she had to kill, that she was forced to kill because of what this group of guys did to her. So I'm going to go with Jennifer's body just because,

of like all the different aspects of female empowerment. But I do think that Swallow is a really, really good movie when it comes to that as well. Well, this is the bracket of plot twists. Like Sabrina's opinion got changed. You changed mine, Jessica. I'm going to go with Jessica's body because of exactly what you did said.

I was all ready to pass it on to Phil and Brian for a tiebreaker, but you won me over. That was pretty compelling argument. Now, our next bracket, I don't know, Sabrina, if you're looking at the bracket says we're going, you suggested a movie. Oh, yes. Okay. Sabrina, can you say how to pronounce this movie and maybe give a brief synopsis and we can say what it's about or who it's, and I can say who it's against? Yeah, absolutely.

I'm assuming you mean Byzantium. Yes, is that how you say Byzantium? Okay, thank you. Yeah, yeah. So Byzantium is a vampire drama that follows two women who, uh, call themselves sisters. And they move from place to place and doing whatever they can, the older quote unquote sister,

who turns out to be the other one's mother. She is a prostitute because it's what she knows. It's what she can do. It's what she's been reduced to because of a person in her past who put her in that position. And it's revealed that her quote unquote sister is actually her daughter that came from being a prostitute. and when she, her daughter gets raped by the same person who put her into a brothel.

And it's at that point that she turns her into a vampire, which is not permitted by the brotherhood. The brotherhood does not allow women to create, which is why I picked this film. And she turns her daughter into a vampire and they live their lives on the run because this brotherhood is hunting them. down to kill them because a woman created a vampire. I forgot about it. It's awesome. Oh man, I'm digging this. It's a quiet one. Nice. You've seen it, Phil? Yeah, it's good move. Awesome. Well, it's up against Carrie. So we all know what Carrie's about.

It's a tough one. Would you like to go first and say which one you think is more empowering? Sure. Oh God, this is a very hard bracket. because both are such fantastic films. Carrie, obviously, she's battered down, she's beaten down by her mother, by her peers at school, by her teachers, her principal doesn't even know her name. And, you know, she goes through this shocking trauma

because she wasn't told how the female body works by her mom. And so she's so scared of what happens. And then I couldn't imagine being bullied that relentlessly. about something that just happens to anyone with a uterus, right? Like that's, it's appalling that that was something that was done to her. And so her, I mean, where she gets to at the end, there's so many moments where it didn't need to go that way, but she just kept getting bullied and bullied and bullied.

And, you know, the tipping point, obviously being the pig's blood. And I don't think she wanted to hurt anyone. and she just snapped and you cannot blame her for snapping. Like when you look at what happened to her, when she kills everyone, you're like, most of those people didn't actually deserve to die, but I am still rooting for her. Yeah, high school's tough. But with that said, and I know lots of people probably haven't seen by Zan, because it didn't really have much of a release when it came out.

I only knew of it because Gemma Arderton is my favorite. an actor. And for me, having a brotherhood of men tell a woman that she is not permitted to create. And there's this one line where they're kind of grilling her. And she says, you know, they ask like, what's your intent as a vampire? What are you planning to do? And she says to curb the power of men. And that is such a powerful line because she has been, you know, living in a world where she was put in a brothel, she didn't have an opportunity, she couldn't get ahead, and then she has a daughter, she tries to give her daughter a better life, and then her daughter is raped by the man who raped her, and he says, now she will die of probably syphilis, is my assumption. And so she does everything

she can to protect her daughter. And so I think it's a really important look at what it means to be a mother and what it means to be a woman. And I'm not saying that. being a woman means being a mother because I don't want kids and that doesn't change who I am. But she does everything she can to protect her daughter and then at the end it turns out protecting her daughter is letting her daughter go. And there's such a huge character arc between Gemma Arderton's character and her daughter who's played by Sir Sharronin and I find the performance is so strong and I'm going to go with Byzantium. No plot twists here. Well Sabrina, first of all I'm buying all your books because you're very detailed.

I can imagine. Well, you write. So thank you for that and such a great explanation. Pedro, would you like to go next? Yes, well, yeah, unfortunately I haven't seen by Saint-Tium, but it's on the list. So I'm going to get to it as soon as possible. So I'm going to go with Carrie because, again, Carrie is very much, like for other reasons that were stated right earlier. Just there's a lot of metaphors of not only bullying, but just also.

being the object of projection for the bullying because I think bullies tend to target people that they consider weak and so that's what Kerry represents. There's also a lot of like religious overtones with her mother. So there's a lot of family dynamics that come into play when we're talking about female empowerment. Changing cultures within the family structure. I think it's also represented in this movie. So just um yeah it's it's a classic and um, um, I'm going to have to go with Carrie on this one. Awesome. Jessica, bring us home. Yes. So I actually hadn't heard of Byzantium before we got our little chart here. And I did get around to watching it. And I'm really glad because I enjoyed it a lot.

And like Sabrina said, all the performances are really great. And it's directed by Neil Jordan, who also directed the company of wolves in high spirits. He did in dreams. And then he also did an interview at the vampire, which is one of my all-time favorite movies. So I'm really glad that I got to watch this. And I agree with everything that Sabrina said. And I think it's, oh, it's so good. I'm sad that I've never heard of it before. I definitely want to just give it praise so that people will go out and watch it. And he, Neil Jordan's also a writer and he wrote Breakfast on Pluto, which is a really great movie. He's known for The Crying Game. So I definitely think that this was just a good, you know, writer and director and that all of

his movies are probably good to some extent. But I am going to have to go with Carrie, which is, you know, one of the ultimate female empowering movies to me. In this case, it's also, you know, that it's also coming of age of course. And also just like having to figure out, like, like what being a woman means because she doesn't have any of that insight and having to fight with her mother who's supposed to be there for her, you know, and just makes everything worse. And her just wanting her mother's love, even though she's the worst person, it's all she has. And it's, you know, the person that she's supposed to be able to turn to and learn from. And I'm sure that part of the reason that her mother is the way she is, is because she's a woman.

And, you know, she was also taught and trained to be a certain way and to fill certain roles and act certain ways. So I think that her mother was super traumatized when she was younger. I bet she was an illegitimate child for sure. Yeah, maybe. Yeah. And then just all of her mother's own trauma in having to face the fact that, you know, she had sex out of wedlock and just like how guilty she feels about that. for the rest of her life. And then Carrie ultimately having to take her mother's life

in order to protect herself, even though you can tell that she doesn't want to do, even though her mom totally sucks. And then, you know, makes the decision to take her own life as well. It's just, yeah, it's such a huge bummer. And it's like probably if there's any villain ever, this is the one that I feel the most empathy towards.

And I think a lot of it, It just has to do with her being a woman and coming to terms with what that means. Wow. Incredible. Phil, you've seen both, right? Yes. So I'm going to pass my vote to you on this one because I feel as though that's more just. Because I have not seen Byzantium.

So do you mind getting us in? Yeah, absolutely, because I would love to vote on this one. Carrie is kind of the obvious pick here. But I think Carrie is more of a coming of age. and not necessarily a female empowerment movie. Byzantium is definitely female empowerment. It just has a very unfortunate name, and so it didn't get out there as much as it really should have.

Because it's a great movie. It's a great vampire movie. And it doesn't take to traditional vampire shit. You know what I mean? It's kind of an almost sci-fi dystopian vampire movie, which is way fun. So if you haven't seen it, definitely go watch that one. It's totally worth it.

I know what I'm watching tonight after this, I'll be honest. You've all sold it for me. That's my pick, I think. I like that one. Brian. Heather, can you please give me your opinion? I want a full voice note about your thoughts on my Xantium. Oh, you're getting it. I love my voice notes. I'm one of those white people. Kate's like that too, so you know what that's all about. 30 minutes every day. Oh my gosh. We love you, Kate. Never stops any voice notes. We love you, Kate. Right? Brian, have you seen both of these?

Because, again, I don't want to weigh in if you've seen both. Oh, Brian. And my pick, I don't know if it's controversial or not. I would have to put the Byzantium for everything that was said about it. What? I actually think it's the better movie. Love it. Wait, what?

I'd rather watch Byzantium right now than Kerry. God of love the plot twist. Me too. I would like to add one more thing really quick. Just that one of the things in Carrie 2 that does make it more having to do with female empowerment is that her power is coming to her because she's becoming a woman. It's because she is. Oh, good point. Yeah, that's like the whole reason she even starts getting her power.

So just want to bring that up. You just need to drink the coolest like the rest of us did, okay? She does have it as a kid, though. no you have a very valid point and both movies are incredible like honestly if they weren't pitted against each other we would see them pitted against in later rounds right um but Sabrina you did a great job to selling that film considering some of us haven't seen it we're all watching it now tonight we're all watching it tonight watch party it has it has a lot of a lot of female empowerment themes that are like critical to the movie you know can I just say it is written by a woman I know it's directed by a man, but the original screenplay, which is actually like a stage play, is written by Moira Buffini, and she also wrote the screenplay for the film, which is why I think we see a lot of that female empowerment stuck through, even with a male director. Moira, that's not a name you hear very often. I like it. What a great conversation. It'll be interesting to see what we bring with this next one, because I purposely paired these to be as odd as possible.

ginger snaps for my Canadian sister over here. 2000, two young ladies. It's a werewolf movie coming of age film, I'm assuming we've all heard of or seen ginger snaps. And Mitzamara, that's for you, Lance, even though you're not here today, because you made me watch the directors cut with these gentlemen, and man, that was a long podcast.

Listening to Lance talk about how great the floral work was and all the other stuff that he did at the time. You guys remember The flower agents, guys, they're awesome Oh my gosh And he was like Oh, just I love the flowers And the colors

And look at the trees And they're breathing All right, Lance Maybe you should slow down On that miracle Medical marijuana Right? We're not

No, we're not Hey, oh, I'm feeling that It's legally It doesn't even smoke that much It's all good there Anyway, Mitzamar is a great film You know, we're looking at someone

a woman who is going through a major change in her relationship, major change in her life and finding herself throughout the film. So Pedro, why don't you kick us off? This is another tough one for Mia. Ginger Snaps has a lot of similarities to Jennifer's body. And so we've kind of covered that. Mitz-Mar, like you were saying, it really is about a female getting some enlightenment, right?

And just it taking another part of the world for her to get there. it's interesting because the male character, her boyfriend, who seems very disconnected in the relationship, which kind of gets them into the situation that we see at the end of the movie, he's also kind of being guided by just the culture that he lives in. So, again, we talk about trying to find empathy for some of the villains in these films, and this is the one that resonates with me as far as like, you know, Was he where was where was his disconnect coming from? Was it from this like from his ego from from his this idea that you know as a male he gets to dictate

How the relationship is going to go or was he being guided by a lot of his environment? And I don't have an answer to that it's that's up for debate But I just I just feel like you know when when this character is presented she's going through a lot of trauma I believe her sister is the one that committed suicide, correct? It was her sister? Yes, it was her sister. Yes. So she needed the emotional space, right?

And that's, you know, being a significant other, that's kind of like, you know, we're socially contractually obligated to do that. And so just the fact that that wasn't happening, it was kind of an awakening for her. So I think in the grief is where the female empowers. Carmen comes in and so I'm gonna go with Mitzamar even though it's long as fuck though but It is and I think I'll just I was I also on that commentary? I don't see myself did you fall asleep I don't remember It's not a film that you know we can revisit more than once every like five year five 10 years or say right? Yeah, I've watched

hereditary a few times guys the flowers I've watched hereditary a few times Midsamar was a one time thing. The flowers. It's the flowers, Brian. So Jessica, what are your thoughts? Yeah, I've seen both. And with Midsamar,

I do love this movie. I don't, I don't feel like her being a woman has as much to do with her empowerment, you know, overall is just like her grieving and growing

and she's also kind of manipulated by this, you know, it's pretty much a cult. So, so this is 100% a cult, Jessica. No, yeah, it's 100%. Right, you're right. Well, you know, it's kind of like a cultural thing, but it's also just a cult. But, yeah, so that's, this is an example of one of those movies where people are like, yeah, you go, girl. But honestly, she's been manipulated and her trauma and grief is kind of used against her. And maybe people just don't pick up on that aspect as much.

But to me, that's kind of more of what I pick up on in that story. So I'm going to have to go with Ginger Snaps. And yeah, I feel like I do love coming of age stories, especially about girls. And I think that there's just so many different aspects to it as well. And I love weird girls, you know what I mean? So I'm already totally on board with Ginger and her sister. right from the get-go just because they're like these weirdos that love each other and they have their they're packed that I think is so sweet and I think even because of their mother and the role

that she plays and the conversations that she has with them towards the end of the movie I think that all of that has a lot to do and in my mind as being women and being empowered especially together Awesome. No, no, Jessica, have you ever been to Canada at all? Have you across the border? No, I wish. So what they're going to do is they're going to ask you what your favorite movie is, and you say ginger snaps and you'll have no problem getting through the border, okay? Okay, perfect. I'll be like, yeah, they'll be like, winter snaps. It doesn't matter where you are. You'll be in, no problem. Oh, good. I also love Cronenberg.

Oh, my gosh. Honestly, I guess you're coming up to see me sometime. I'm just outside of Toronto. You're welcome. time. Okay, perfect. Sabrina, do you want to bring us home? Yeah, I want to echo what everyone has already said here, especially Jessica. I think you made really good points about Midsomar. I have always had an issue with Midsomar because I feel like people say it's a good for her ending when really he wanted out of that relationship and then because of the murder, suicide, her sister committed, he was kind of trapped. And I am not saying he is a good person because he is an asshole. He was a shitty boyfriend.

But she also has a responsibility to read the room. And I think that in a relationship, there's give and take. And she needed to see that he wasn't happy. And he also needed to pull the pin. And so both aren't that great of people. I sympathized with her trauma. And I think she overcomes so much. but at the end of the film, I don't think he deserved to die.

And I feel like her decision was based on the fact she was on a lot of drugs. And so I don't know if you can actively make a decision like that to impact your entire life when you are on hallucinogenics. As a sober person who doesn't do drugs, I wouldn't make a decision on drugs. So I don't feel like by the time she wakes up from that haze, I don't think she's going to be happy. And so I don't know how much empowerment that really does. Whereas Ginger Snaps is a story about, again, I love stories about sisters. My sister and I watched this together and we wanted to replicate their creepy suicide school project they did.

And they are so tight and, you know, they don't want to get their period. They're so against it. And how did no one think about doing a werewolf people? period film. Like to me it is a staple. It is, you know, pulled in by the moon and that cycle. And, you know, the way Ginger changes throughout, which is kind of like a coming of age, she, you know, sexually awakened and all that. And B isn't there yet. Be isn't caught up because it doesn't happen to her yet. And the divide that happens between them, that happens between sisters at some point. Normally your sister doesn't turn into a werewolf that you have to,

you know, kill. But I think B overcomes so much and has to go through so much. And I always feel for her. And I feel for Ginger as well. But to me, there's so much strength in the characters and the conversation of, you know, getting your menstrual cycle. To me, I love those conversations in films and we need more of it. So Ginger Snaps wins this one. Awesome.

And you hear that, Lance? Fuck Midsamar. Fuck it. No, I do like it. I do like Midsumar. I love that the flowers breathe. That's all. But going back to Mitzamar, and I'm not going to be a Mitzamar apologist.

I mean, whatever, it's a movie. But I will say this. From my perspective, I still see the boyfriend as trying to save her. So we're saying, okay, he kind of stayed her because he feels trapped. Ultimately, this movie comes down to a lack of communication. And I agree with you, Sabrina, and that if there was more communication, you know, they would have been able to have a better outcome, you know, both of them maybe separating or taking a break or whatever.

But I think the message of the film is that as a man, sometimes we feel like we have to protect women when they're in this stress. And so the boyfriend feeling trapped was not him not having the courage to let go of the relationship. It was him saying, I need to protect her right now, even though I don't want to be with her. And so I think the symbolism of this movie, even though it's pretty extreme, is that her character goes through this kind of like enlightening process or what or have you to where she kind of just purges a lot of that old self in order to be reborn again, right? And so I think the message there is that had, because we have to think about it, what would happen

had they had not gone on this trip? They would still been in this very maladaptive relationship where neither of them would have been growing. right that that's what we assume so this is what it took for her to kind of be reborn again so and reclaim her power anyways that's how that's kind of how i interpret it um but yeah i like that insight thank you for bringing that because this is a film where i've had to come around to it so every piece that can add to it i do appreciate where does the werewolf origin story come from like originally iraer yeah Ireland? Yeah, when I was in...

When I traveled back to the UK, I laughed because Scott always makes fun of me talking about the UK. My understanding is it has a birthplace in Ireland. It's where the foreclore began. And I feel like Sabrina would know better. I should, because I wrote a book about werewolves. Aw, Sabrina. It's kind of all over the place.

My knowledge of the werewolves is like with the real werewolf trials, like Peter Stump, which is like Jermper, which is like Germany. So there's kind of all of that. So that was like a real thing. Like they thought people were were wolves? Oh yeah. And they were tied in very tight with the witch trials

because people would say, oh, she made me a werewolf. So let's burn this witch and let's tear apart this werewolf. I have not even looked into that. Because it wouldn't surprise me at all if it was, if it had something to do with like the female cycle, you know, with the moon phases and all that shit. like it kind of makes sense yeah yeah I feel like we just birthed another horn movie that's going to come out in 2025 about witches and werewolves you heard it here first pick it up can it be my book please oh 100% it's going to be right will you come back to us when you're still famous will you will you come on here and do this again Sabrina forever oh that's a commitment um so clearly gin your steps is is moving forward thank you everyone for their their insights on that it was a really

good conversation. Sabrina, I owe you an apology. You selected this first movie, Fresh, which was in my top five of the year it came out, and I forgot it on the original bracket, so I apologize. Fresh, we have, up against, don't worry, darling, which was also in my top five of the year I came out as well.

I did that purposely. Sabrina, I see you're muted. Would you like to go first? both two fantastic films I really really liked both of them very different films and yet they both cover the same topic of you know

what it's like to be with men and I will say not all men but you know typically fresh for me you know eat you but can you blame her like Sebastian Stan can get it

Um, anyways, I think what Fresh does is it takes this look at the modern dating and how awful it is. Like that opening scene where she's going on a date with that guy who's like, you know, I think women should try harder. Yeah. He's mocking her outfit and he's wearing his dumb fucking scarf. And so when she meets Sebastian Stan in the grocery store and he's funny and he's engaging and he's just a normal guy, obviously he's just a sociopath. But I was invested. I was like I would have absolutely reached out and, you know, asked him for coffee or something.

So it's believable how it led to that. And you can tell it's written by a woman I find throughout the whole film. There's so many parts of like the friendship that Noah has with, I'm spacing on her best friend's name. But, you know, they have that little sign off of, I will give you the sign off. and if I don't, essentially it means I'm not safe. And that's how her friend finds her.

And that's how they save each other. And I have that. I have a code word with Kate, actually, who I don't know how she's going to help me in England when I'm in Canada. But anyways, that's the point. But she could call someone. She could call someone if she had finished, right? She has, like, all my parents on her messenger.

So we're good. There you go, right? But to me, Fresh, it's women, they come. They fight. They fight so hard. They fight with missing limbs. They fight with missing butt cheeks. They fight. And Noah's character eating people. And you know that it takes everything in her to keep that down. She does so much for her survival. And I'm always just amazed at, I wonder how far we would go for our survival. Don't worry, darling. I love it so much. But, and, you know, Florence, Pugh's character does fight against the oppression and fight against this world that she's in and she does make it through. So they're like neck and neck, but I think Fresh tips it over just because it's a realistic approach to what we face and what we have to overcome and what we have to prepare for and worry about as women. Lovely. Pedro, have you seen both?

Yes, I saw Fresh, yeah, I saw it once when it premiered. I haven't seen it since, but good synopsis there. Thank you for that. I'm going to go with Don't Worry, Darling. And I have stated earlier how we had a lot of these little quasi-remakes of the Stafford Wives. And this is kind of another one, right? It's another one that deals with the same themes. And to me, again, this is more about females changing the culture instead of focusing on their own individual path.

And for Don't Worry, Darling, is both. You know, she's trying to change her life, but also trying to. change how the world sees women within that community. And so, again, I think the focus, in my opinion, it's more on female empowerment for Don't worry, Darling, than it is for Fresh. Like I said, I've only seen it once. Maybe if I saw it again, I would change my mind on that. So I'm going to go with Don't worry, darling, for this one.

Awesome. Jessica. Yeah, for both of these movies, I'm actually kind of like lukewarm on both of them. but I think it's, you know, it's important to bring up that these are both written and directed by women. So that's really cool. And I do agree that with Fresh, I really enjoy especially the character of her best friend, Molly, and like all the codes and the conversations that they have and the worry. Because that is very realistic to today, I think. Although it's still kind of unrealistic to me that she was okay with going away with this.

guy when she hasn't known him that long. That's kind of my issue with both of these movies, though, is that both of them have plot issues for me. But I think I'm actually going to go with don't worry, darling, just because so much of the story has to do with these, like, gross men that don't have the power that they want, controlling these women in this weird experimental way that they've discovered and changing who they are in this fake world to be who they want to be and to have control and have their women at home,

just doing what they think that they should be doing and just relaxing. And we really see with Florence Pugh's character how she's actually a doctor and she's very driven. And her boyfriend thinks that if she could just relax and just let him take care of her, that everything would be perfect. And that's just not what she wants or is looking for.

And so he forces it on her. And so, you know, when she wakes up in that final scene, I feel like, yes, okay, we've at least gotten out of this weird fake world where men have pushed what they want us to be onto us. And now you can go back to being an actual, you know, strong woman and she had to fight to get there. So while I have a lot of issues with the movie on a technical standpoint, I do think that as far as female empowerment, it's a little stronger for. me. Well, excellent. This would have been my pick, and I'll give a quick brief synops as why, because it doesn't really matter, but there's a scene where Alice confronts Frank. And that scene to me is extremely powerful, because we've been taught, especially in North American society, to have polite conversation, especially women. And she pushes back at this dinner party and challenges.

And also, she was removed from a world not by choice. She was forced into basically a prison and besides having fucking amazing oral sex, there wasn't much else that really happened in this film that was to her benefit. And to me,

her putting it together from when the one woman quote unquote kills herself and challenging and confronting the system and finding out that someone else

in another role where bunny's chosen to be there because it's easier to be there than facing her trauma of losing her losing her children. This is probably by far one of my all-time favorite films. I adore Fresh too. I think all Sabrina's points are great

and again it doesn't really matter but that's why I brought Don't worry, Darling, to the table. Anyone want to say anything else before we continue on? I was going to say, you know, even so the production of this film was a mess, right? Don't worry, darling. There was a lot. The media kind of really amplified

how much of a mess it was. But, you know, again, every film production is going to be chaotic. And Olivia Wilde took a lot of heat for how much of a mess this film was. And, you know, the question becomes, had it been a male director? Because, again, these films are always going to be chaotic. So there was a lot of drama that came out of this film behind the scenes. You know, Harry Stiles was pissed off.

Everybody was pissed off in this movie. Chris Pine was pissed off. I think one of them spit at the other one on, whatever. So it makes me wonder, I mean, that's something that Olivia Wilde also had to overcome, right? Just being in the director's chair and being a leader in this production, how much the media tried to tear her down. And, you know, the film turned out fine. I mean, it's flawed for sure, but just like any other film would be flawed. So I think that's something to look into as well as we talk about these themes of female empowerment.

Because I feel like, you know, again, female director, I mean, male director, would the me, media be as harsh as they were with her. Probably not, Pedro. I'm going to go with, because there's probably this shit happens all the time, right? Oh, it does. Yeah, this shit happens all the time. But this is making a movie's hard. So yeah, right?

Yeah, you're dealing with actors of egos. I can only change the drama, right? No, really, I also would like to throw a little two cents in, even though it doesn't matter because the movie's already won. But I would have voted for fresh because, because I feel like, like Sabrina said, it's a little bit more of a realistic representation, even though, you know, probably not cannibals

trying to cut you up and sell you for meat. Well, that could be, you know. I was like, I don't believe that nothing has not happened anymore. There could be. You just don't know anymore. I mean, there's people doing all kinds of crazy shit. So, yeah, like, that probably is more realistic at this point.

I don't know. We'll see where AI gets to for, Don't worry, darling. But yeah, not far off, right? But I feel like, don't worry, darling, was more of a trope of what we think that men want. Interesting. More than, you know, how it actually is. This is true.

Well, I do like oral sex. That's accurate. I do want that. Yeah. Yeah. So my wife stayed at home and helped me with my business for a while. She's back at work again now, but it wasn't like she was just staying at home and doing nothing. She was like handling the business side of my business.

Yeah. She was working in partnership with you. She was running shit, to be honest with me. She was the boss, is what you're saying. And do you also have children as well? Yes, I have two. Wow. It's a busy household. Yeah, it is.

We got stuff going all the time, but I wouldn't have it. any other way they're awesome it's awesome well thanks everyone for your feedback again these are great conversations sometimes our movie picks are quick and sometimes we have some really good conversation so the next two are is the descent from 2005 what a fun k you creature film yeah what a fucking fun film even i even like the sequel i don't know if that's an unpopular opinion but i enjoyed it for what it was yeah not as good person but it's no it's fun though right um and hush I back when I was just watching Netflix for horror and this came on I was like oh my god like blew my mind back in 2016 simply because I found the main protagonist the woman in it quite incredible having a disability and being able to overcome so I feel like Jessica's going to tell me this is more about his film about someone having a disability and overcoming but I

decided to bring it to the table so now that I've actually mentioned Jessica's name Jessica, do you mind if you go first? I don't mind. And you're right. I was trying to kind of think of like, well, how is this specifically a female empowerment story? I do really love hush, though. I love how she plays out all these scenarios in her head and basically talks to herself. But I do think that the killer targets her because she's disabled and not necessarily because she's a woman.

And he has no problem killing men in the film as well. So, but to be honest, I also don't really feel like the dissent, even though it's filled with women, and it's a story about a group of women. And obviously they are trying to survive in this cave. It still didn't specifically speak to me as a female empowerment movie. But I think that I'm still going to go with the dissent just because there are all of these female dynamics at play, you know, and, relationships especially between Sarah and Juno and what they've been through in the past with, you know, Sarah being married and her husband cheating on her with Juno, both of them grieving his death and then having to like come together and still be friends and go on adventures every year. So I guess that,

in that scenario, it is women specific. So I'll go with the dissent just because of that. you know Jessica that's why I brought it to the table because I do think that as women were taught to be against each other from a young age and I think this is a situation where two women decided to put aside what differences they could to survive and come above the caddiness and come above fighting over some man some man that they could all just get another man if they really wanted they could get another one it's not the only man so you know that's why I brought it to the table but I would agree they are not the strongest films on this list, which, you know, might make it a quick conversation. So Pedro, what are you thinking? Well, I agree with everything that Jessica just said. She articulated perfectly. I, again, I don't know how these two films meet criteria, even with your explanation, Heather. Because I think in the, I haven't seen either of these films in a long time, but I think in the dissent, they still end up kind of betraying each other at the end, right? I mean, maybe I'm not remembering correctly, but I'm going to go to the dissent.

Sabrina. I echo what everyone has said here. My issue with the dissent has always been that it did come down to, yes, Pedro, you're right. They still were at each other's throats at the end. And a lot of that had to do with the history of Juno sleeping with Sarah's husband pre-dead. They were both grieving, obviously. But I think I always take issue with it, but at the same time when it's paired against Hush, which is a great. film about a woman surviving being hunted, but I think that that role could be done by anyone, regardless of gender, whereas the dissent, for the most part, these women are working together to survive and they overcome a lot of extreme horrors and traumas, you know, even with the rope tearing apart the one girl's hands, and they are looking out for each other until the end. So this is a tough battle, but I think the dissent tips over just a tiny bit. because there's more women together throughout, even if it doesn't end that way.

Excellent. Well, it's a sweep. We probably won't be talking about this too much more after the next round. But we'll move to the next grouping. We're almost on our first round, actually. It's exciting. So X 2022.

I don't know who brought X. It wasn't awesome. So I'll probably get you to start, Sabrina. And it's a coin against, and this one is for Kate, who couldn't be here, Suspira, the original. the original Suspheria, which I hope is the one that she prefers, because that's the one that I went with. We'll see. I actually think she prefers the new one because Dakota Johnson is her favorite actor.

Oh, well. I'm going with the old one, so you'll have to forgive me. Hey, Lance. I've only seen the new one. Okay. As her. Lance, though, Phil? Oh, yeah, no, he loves Dakota Johnson.

That's, that's his thing. Still very much on this, Joy, and though he's not here. No, Lance, he's still with us. us. So Sabrina, take us off with these two. Well, I picked X and pairing it against Suspira being Kate's favorite film is like, are you trying to break us up? How did you know? I can get up to the Canadians around, Sabrina. Getting too much.

So I'm kind of basing what I know off of the remake of Suspira. And there's a lot of women and their witches. and I struggled with that film a lot, but I do think the main character overcomes a lot, having come from such a modest, almost strange background, very foreign background to mine. And she does come into her own and finds a power, but what I really liked about X is that I went with a lot of films

that have a lot of sex positivity because that is such an important thing to me in all genres. You see it a lot now in horror. And so I thought that the the three female characters in X, not including the crazy grandma lady who kills everyone,

I was expecting there to be a lot of catiness between them. And when there wasn't, I was really happy with the way that these women work together and they loved what they were doing. It wasn't pornography. as a negative. It was pornography as a positive. And yes, there's good porn and bad porn. That's a whole other conversation. But I think this highlighted a really positive way of women owning something that

historically we've been selling sex for that's like the oldest job. And doing it and having fun and supporting each other and lifting each other up. I really like that aspect of X. And then I also loved Maxine's growth of when you kind of discover her roots of that. religious extremism and how she overcame it and she will give herself the life she deserves whatever that line is at the end. I just really think that that is such a powerful guiding force behind her. So because of it, sex positivity and because I think it's a more enjoyed film, I'm going to go with X. Awesome. Pedro. I'm going to go with X as well. I don't know if

Suspira, 1997 meets the criteria that we're talking about, although I think the remake does a lot more. But, you know, X is a great film. Not only is it a female empowerment film, it was just an all-out feminist film, in my opinion. There's that great scene where, like, General Ortega wants to participate. So, so General Ortega's boyfriend is all like talking shit, right? It's like, he's actually, he sees himself as above the other porn stars because his girlfriend's virginal, et cetera, et cetera. and all of a sudden general tale is like, well, I want to participate. And that just kills him. It kills, well, later on he literally dies because Pearl kills him.

But it killed me a little bit. That was an uncomfortable scene. But that happens right after his soul's crushed because his girlfriend wants to participate in this porn scene. And so that's very reflective of, you know, having this sex positive message that, you know, just because I want to participate in this. scene is in the scene is not reflective of who I am as a whole and and her boyfriend can't see it that way so he cries he takes a shower and then he comes down he gets killed so it's a little bit reflective of their relationship though right exactly so so so so so I think there's a lot of little nuggets

of like you know um feminist thought in in that in that entire film so I'm gonna go with X for sure awesome Jessica yeah I agree both um the original Spiria and the remake, although that one could be a little more female empowering. I feel like it's a lot of women fighting against each other, you know, and their empowerment all comes from actual magical power, but there's all these, this like classism and power dynamics and witches wanting to be like the top dog, you know, in the hierarchy of witches, but it's all about like women competing against each other. Are there any men in that movie?

in Suspiria. In the original they are, but they're all like basically man servants. Okay. I just, I can't remember a whole lot. Okay. Yeah, so I guess in that way, because the women are all like more powerful, I guess that that could be taken as empowerment. But in X, I feel like, yeah, it's like very sex positive.

And, you know, Maxine ran away from like a very religious home. homestead to find her sexuality and power and she really doesn't want to be kept in a box, which I think is very empowering in even Pearl, the crazy grandma. You know, she's empowered to kill people. That's like her thing. And she also still wants to feel beautiful and young and sexy. And then as you mentioned, Jenna Ortega's story, I think is very empowering, especially because her boyfriend, you know, was making hypocritical statements.

And, you know, she makes a decision that could probably end in their relationship ending, but still she made that decision for herself based on, you know, what she has seen and processed through thinking. So I think it's, I think that X is actually very big on female empowerment. And I love Britney Snow's character. And just the way that she talks about their profession. And yeah, I think X is great for this. And X it is.

That moves on. We're getting down to our bottom round. These two films that I purposely put up against each other because working at a post-secondary institution, both of them talk about corruption. And let me tell you, none of them are off. I've actually seen these situations happen on the campus that I work at. So it's not pleasant and it's the reality of assault on campus and how young women are treated. So a promising young woman 2020 versus MFA 2017 both deal with individuals in a post-secondary institution who are basically acting as vigilantes for things that have happened to them.

I do think a promising young woman massages out a plot line a little bit more detailed, especially at the end when you realize who the boyfriend is and what he was involved in and how she confronts him. There's a lot of great confrontation and very hard conversations that occur in both of these films. Has everyone seen these films or?

Yes, no. Yes. I haven't not seen either one of these, actually. Okay. Okay. Awesome. All right. So I guess Jessica, do you want to start us off? Yeah. I'm pretty sure that I brought MFA to the table.

And it's one that I haven't heard of a ton of. I thought I did. Sorry, my bad. Oh, oh, no. Oh, no. I wasn't saying that to say that. No, I thought you were just saying that you pitted them against each other purposefully. Maybe I didn't. Maybe I didn't mention it. But it is one that I really enjoy and that I never hear anyone talk about. I've never heard. Right, exactly.

Yeah, you got to check it out if you get a chance to you. Yeah, it is really great. Although I think that I will go with promising young woman just because of how intentional the main character is. And she's really, you know, doing all of this on behalf of her fallen sister. And by sister, I mean like her friend, but, you know, female empowerment episode. I'm calling her her sister. So I just think that the way that she really plots everything out and really uses, you know, sex, which was kind of the demise of her best friend, she's using it as like a tool in her belt to avenge her friend.

Yeah, I just think that like every step and every action she takes and her whole reason for even still being has to do with. you know being an empowered female and doing what she thinks is right because of how her best friend was wronged so yeah I'm going to go with promising young woman awesome Pedro same thing a promising young woman I think for all the reasons that Jessica stated so there's nothing more for me to add so I'm going to go with a promising young woman awesome Sabrina also same reasons and I wanted to bring up in promising young woman, it also highlights not just the men who have done bad things, but the women who have done bad things. That's a great point.

Particularly the dean of the campus. And that's not to say that Carrie Mulligan's character isn't also doing some pretty shitty stuff, but the fact that she was willing to, she knew that there was a chance she was going to die. And she still did it to make a point and to hurt the person who hurt. her, as you said, sister, best friend. We are all sisters in solidarity. And so promising young woman takes the cake. Yeah, there's a scene in a promising young woman with the female dean where the main field male protagonist, I can't remember her name, sorry, who says, well, maybe we'll have your daughter go to the frat house. And she freaks out.

And for someone who works at post-secondary institutions, there's a dark side to everything. and that I've never seen something more accurate put on film. And needs to change. But very good movie. Both are excellent, but a promising young woman is moving on. So our final bracket for round one. Thanks for everyone for sticking with us, and we'll see how round two and three go.

Don't feel like you need to give more information if you feel like you've already stated your points. If you just want to give the winner, that's fine. So we have Neon Demon, which I've never seen from 2016. I'm not sure who brought that to the table. I did. Okay, excellent. So I might have you talk about that one. It's a blind spot for me. And there's so many black Christmases out there. So many. But I decided to choose the OG. I think I put this on there. I think it was mine. I thought it, you know, I did a little Google for women empowerment and films and this came up in one of the top three. So I thought I would include it. So we'll see what the conversation is. So Sabrina, if you can start us off. For sure. With Neon Demon, I debated whether or not I should bring it to the table. So the fact it's, paired against Black Christmas is interesting because it might sway my decision. For me, neon demon is a story about an aspiring model and the world that is modeling, which is a very

toxic world, especially in Los Angeles. And there's so much battling between like how to, how to be the best, how to be the prettiest. And for me, the reason why I chose it is because it is about leaning into your beauty and owning it. But unfortunately, it's paired against Black Christmas, which is a pretty strong contender, given the fact that it is a abortion positive film from the 70s. So Black Christmas has a lot of women in it, and I feel like it's a stronger one for the theme,

whereas Neon Demon probably could have taken a couple others, but I don't think it can take Black Christmas. Well, thank you. Pedro. Yeah, there's a tough choice right here. I think Neon Demon does bring a lot of topics that women, I live in L.A., so I live in a very superficial city here, very materialistic city, and just the objectifying of women is very prevalent in Neon Demon, and just these expectations that women have that are unattainable,

especially now in the social media age that we live in and just the pressures that come with that and it's represented very well in Neon Demon but Black Christmas you think about when it was made and again the subjects of abortion and just that female empowerment and also within the film itself you see women that that enjoy kind of hanging around with each other

there's not that cattyness that you see in other films where you have a lot of women, like the descent, for example. So I'm going to go with Black Christmas from 1974. Awesome. Thank you. Jessica. Yeah, I agree with everybody so far. And I'm from Palm Springs, which is pretty close to L.A. and both of those areas are very superficial.

Right. So I totally know what you're talking about because I grew up around that. And it's one of the reasons I moved to Portland, Oregon, actually. But yeah, I mean, Black Christmas especially. It's kind of how I felt about Halloween is where I'm considering the time that this came out and how insane it was that they were pro abortion. And just the way that Jess talks back to her boyfriend about, well, I don't want to get married to you. Like, why would you assume that that's something I want? You already know what I want.

I've been very upfront with you that I'm going to school because I want. want this other life for myself, which I think is just, just totally stands out for this period of time. And all the women in the house are like the sisterhood, which I really love. And I love the house mother. She's so great. And I love that she tries to kind of like defend all the, you know, she's like, well, I'm not their babysitter. Like they're grown women. So I'm definitely going to go with Black Christmas. I do love the Neon Demon, and I do think that the main character, you know, becomes more empowered as the story goes on.

But, yeah, a lot of it is just kind of like, and I know there's like this whole, you know, witch backstory that is happening too, so I love that part of it. But I think so much of it has to do with competing and girls going against each other instead of supporting each other. So I'm going to go with Black Christmas. Oh, Black Christmas for round one. We made it through round one. It's interesting that Bob Clark directed Black Christmas,

which was very much a female empowerment film. But he also did Porkies, which is like... Yeah, a very different film. It's like the objectifying women. It's a sex comedy, and it's just weird how that happened. But anyways, and he did a Christmas story, too, which is even wackier. Fun fact. I've got a media course in university years ago, 20 years ago, so it's probably changed now. That was the highest gross in Canadian film at that time. Fuck, I hope not other films that have come out since then have surpassed Porkies.

So we're going to do round two now. And again, I always found when I was a panelist on this, sometimes I wouldn't feel like I had anything extra to say. Of course, if you do, please share it. But if you just want to give the name of the movie for other arguments you gave in the past, that's fine, too. you know, don't feel pressured to add stuff if you can't think of anything else you want to add. So back to our round two racket at the beginning. We have the autopsy of Jane Doe versus Happy Death Day. Sabrina. I am going to go with Autopsy of Jane Doe because I feel like Happy Death Day could be done with someone of any gender, whereas Autopsy of Jane Doe felt like it had to be her story.

and as you guys mentioned, she doesn't even speak, and she holds that much power. Yes, absolutely. Pedro. Same thing, Autopsy of Jane Doe. Awesome. Jessica. Yeah, I mean, if the Autopsy of Jane Doe

beat the witch, it's, yeah. Happy Death Day is not beating Autopsy of Dane Doe in my eyes. This isn't a sports game, it's not rigged. Okay, so next one. I'm just kidding. Just kidding. Wait a minute, wait a minute, well. I have questions, but there's not a time to ask.

About sports or about... Yeah, about sports. Oh, I just seemed funny. I was just being funny, Pedro. No, I was just being funny. I was just being funny. I know, Patriot's like Heather. We're going to have a whole separate podcast about that.

So aliens, 1970. That's are the original aliens versus Gerald's game. Sabrina, we'll do the same rotation. I don't know. Unmute myself. I just started talking. Definitely, alien. There's no competition.

Yeah, Pedro. Alien. One of the things that I wanted to say about Alien that I didn't get to say in the first round, the man in this film, like, Ripley's always unequal. From the very beginning of the film, she's equal to them. And there is no point in the film where they empower her. Like, usually with these kind of films, you see the trope where the guys, even though they die or they get killed, and we have the final girl, there's always like a passing of the torch, right? where a man is going to empower the woman, either that's the boyfriend or whatever the case may be.

Here it's just like she is who she is and she comes into the film already like self-actualized. She's already empowered. And that's one of the little things that I love about this film because this film is it's surrounded by a bunch of quote unquote alpha men. And the way they get treated was very different for this time, you know? Like you have Tom Scarratt there who does a great job with the time that he's given. but he was kind of like a leading man at that time. And here he kind of plays secondary to Ripley. So that's one of the, you know, just to add to how amazing this film is

when it comes to female empowerment, that's just another layer of it. So I'm going to go with Alien. Awesome, Jessica. Yeah, I think this is actually kind of a hard pairing, but obviously I'm going to go with Alien as well. It is also another case of like this technically came out in the 70s. and it's just so nice to have like a female lead at that time in this kind of a role. And I grew up as a tomboy, you know, not to say that Ripley is necessarily a tomboy,

but it just kind of made me feel more normal to see a strong female portrayed in this way instead of some like hot bombshell. I feel that in my bones, Jessica. Feel light in my bones. All right. So obviously aliens moving on. Yeah, I want to throw a little extra. That's part of the reason that I love Alien as the female empowerment movie because it's not,

it's not even necessarily a female empowerment movie. It's just that the badass main character happens to be a female. I like that. It's not really gender specific. She just is. Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, I feel like we'll be talking about it more.

maybe a lot towards the end as a prediction was given earlier. Invisible Man 2020 versus Death Proof 2007, Sabrina. Oh, this is a hard one. I know. This is a hard one. This is a hard one.

I think I'm going to go with death proof, though, because all the women come together to defeat this man who's harmed so many women in the past. All right, Pedro. Oh, it is difficult, though. But I'm going to go with death proof as well. well another another thing that I get to talk about in the first round there this is this this cool scene because we're talking about how how the dialogue gets criticized there's this cool

scene where I think it's jungle Julia is getting text from her I think it's her boyfriend that he's on his way no no they they had some sort of issue and they and they want to get together and talk it out so he keeps on texting her and she kind of keeps something on ignoring it but then she dies so we never like like in that world that never gets finalized There's never any closure. And so it's those little things that I love about, about Tarantino's writing because he'll leave those loose threads to be representative of real life. Like, you know, we'll never get to see the end of that text conversation

because obviously she gets killed by Stumbman Mike. So I don't know, it's those little things that I love about that film. So I'm going to go with death proof. Awesome. Jessica. Yeah, I'm going to have to go with death proof as well, just because, like you're saying, all those little touches and details. another one being from that first part of the movie

Butterfly, the friend Arlene, she gives Stupman Mike that lap dance which was like the greatest lap dance in cinema history in my opinion. And yeah, and then for him to like come and murder her right after, you know, and then her to like see the car for a split second before she's killed and think

damn it I knew it I knew I was right knew that car was evil I knew there was something wrong with that guy you know for like that split second before she died made me so mad that he got a lap dance from her but then also with the second group of girls

you know they think that they're going to leave Abernathy behind when they're going to go get revenge they're like okay you can get out of the car it's cool we're going to go take care of this she's like fuck that let's go kill this bastard um i just freaking love that like yes female empowerment all the way like she's just as pissed it doesn't matter that they're gearheads and she's more girly and would prefer to watch

john hughes over the vanishing point um they're all going to go and do this together this is a shared experience now um so yeah i'm going with that proof sorry you talk too much no you don't talk to me that was awesome i love bringing different stuff up um so death proof moves on bye bye invisible man So our next pairing, American Mary versus Raw, Sabrina. Tough one. But given my stance on, I want to see a film that's not about revenge of sexual assault making its way through. And I do love sisterhood and that connection that sisters have. I'm going to go with Raw.

I think it's a really good coming of age story. Awesome. Pedro. I thought you were going to say American Mary, because I think. think the Saskas sisters directed that film, so I was like, oh, that's cool. But I'm going to go with Raw as well. All right. Jessica.

This one is so hard, but I am going to go with Raw as well, especially just because of the character development for Justine overall. Yeah, I think, yeah, I'm going to go with Rob, but it's very hard for me. Hey, that's okay. Some of these won't be hard at all. so it's good to have some hard ones and easy ones Jennifer's body versus by Santium Sabrina Byzantium

You're like it's going through baby I'm so happy it made it this far And I am going to keep fighting for this one Because I think it is about curbing the power of men Who have oppressed women Their little underdog Pedro Well since I haven't seen by St. Tim

I don't think it would be fair for me to just pick Jennifer's body so maybe Brian's going to have to take this one okay Brian by Zanti oh I think we're just little right up I know Brian's like whoa oh what's is we still recording um Jessica I'm contemplating give me just a second this is basically the biggest decision of life I told Mark Nato everything's relying on this that's so funny oh it's so hard they're both I mean by Byzantium is like a better film. But it's just, I feel like Jennifer's body just deals with so many different female themes.

You know, I'm going to go with Byzantium because there's also another, there's another part of that story where one of the girls has to like find the power and the bravery to do what she thinks is right. right, you know, even against her mother's wishes. So I'm going to go with that because that's just another dynamic and theme. Awesome. All right. We have ginger snaps versus don't worry, darling. Sabrina, take us off. I really liked Pedro.

I think it was your take on don't worry, darling, of them coming through and fighting the oppression of an entire community. I really, really like that. And so I am having a hard time with this one. I think I'm still going to go with Ginger Snaps because Ginger Snaps, to me, what B has to overcome watching her sister go through this

and what Ginger has to overcome going through it, I'm going to go with Ginger Snaps. All right, Pedro. I'm going to go with Don't worry, darling. Awesome. And Jessica. I'm going to go with ginger snaps. Plot twist. Love it. All right.

Now this is the easy one. The dissent versus X. I don't even know I'm asking the question, but we'll do it anyway for sake. The ginger snaps wins that one? Oh, Ginger Snap won the last one, yes. Sorry. Sorry. I should have said that. I'm getting tired, Phil. You know how it is, right? I'm doing a great job, by the way. Thank you, Pedro.

Maybe I should replace Lance. Did you guys, you guys want to talk about that later? Just kidding, Lance. Then he's going to try to come on my point. Anyway, the dissent versus X. So, Sabrina, I know this is a big decision. X. X.

And Jessica. X. Oh, man. Quick. All right. So X moves forward. Finally, for round two, a promising young woman versus Black Christmas. This may be a little more tough.

We'll see. Sabrina. Well, I would argue that Black Christmas is more a traditional horror film. However, when I first saw a promising young woman, I realized that horror, like, doesn't have to be scary. but that is fully entirely all horror movie like the way it made my skin crawl so promising young woman even though they're about very similar things I would say promising young woman is the stronger film here

awesome Pedro yeah same thing I mean you know a promising young woman is very grounded and it's very real I think that's what makes it even more scarier and so I'm going with a promising young woman awesome Jessica this one's really hard But I think for the specific theme, I'm also going to go with a promising young woman. Awesome.

Real university stuff versus fake frat house sorority stuff. All right. We're on to round three. Ooh, this is going to get, we'll see if Pedro's prediction, you didn't take any bets on your prediction. Did you, Pedro? No. There's no money on the line, is there? Okay.

Optopsy of Jane Doe versus alien. Marina. This is a very tough one. Because I feel like Alien is one of those ones that once again could be played by any gender. However, the fact that it is played by a woman and her being a woman isn't the main point because she takes all these. She just owns all the roles that she's in. I'm like sweating right now.

It's a big decision again. I think because of all the reasons previously stated, I'm sticking with Alien for this one. Sorry, Jane. Hey, Jane made it pretty far. Well, we shouldn't say anything yet, Pedro. Not that I think I know what you're getting at. Before it started.

I mean, I don't know. I think this, yeah, it is a good conversation as far as like if, like if we were to put the character of Dallas, which I previously, the Tom's scary character, and he goes through the entire process that Ripley, goes through, I think it would be a completely different film. So I kind of disagree with the fact that you could just kind of put a male into that row and it would still work. And then there's also this very like subtle connection between the alien and then Ripley that would only work if it was, because it's a female, especially in the sequels.

But so I would have to stay with, I would stick with Alien in this one. Jessica. This is crazy because alien. is my second favorite movie of all time. What's your first? Evil dead. All right, I can go with that. But I think I'm actually going to go with the autopsy of Jane Doe.

Just because, yeah, I mean, you know, she was like murdered for essentially being a woman and being accused of being a witch. And we never find out if she ever actually was a witch beforehand or if this is something that comes, you know, as like vengeance after death only, but I think it just has so much to do with that, where with Alien, if we were considering the whole franchise, I would say that the female empowerment comes into play more in the sequels than it does in the original. So I'm going to with Autopsy of Jane Doe. Shots fired. To keep it spicy, I too, I'm going to go with the autopsy of Jane Doe. I think your arguments were pretty good there. So why don't we

go down to Phil Phil well you know what my vote's gonna be let's ask Brian okay Brian wake him up Brian you there You gotta put it on me Because of everything Jessica said I'm gonna have to

What? Oh my All right well I'm officially putting my vote in for aliens So it's a tie Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Hey someone call up land The idea. I know.

We only have six people. Can I give a piece that I forgot about alien until just recently right now? Sure, sure. The writer included the alien coming out of the stomach as one of the biggest fears that men would have potentially is being pregnant. Also one of my biggest fears too. Also one of my biggest fears. It's not just for men. This is real.

Yeah. And so I like that that was taken. Like here's something that's inherently, you know, people with a uterus, generally females go through. Let's make men go through it. And so that's kind of a female empowerment part of it as well, if that sway is anyone. I think we need to get Phil's wife on the line. I'm just kidding. Everybody else is out.

It's just me. today. That's a good argument. Does anyone want to change their thoughts? Or does anyone have something to argue about the autopsy of Jane Dome? Well, I think because Phil is more of a tiebreaker um, Phil, what? You fuck things up, Phil. I'll be honest. I know, dude. I'm sorry.

I should have done that. First of because I hated it. You gave up your turn. I gave up my turn. I hate it to Brian because I assumed he was going to vote for the same thing I was. But I think we have to go with autopsy at this point because he was the tiebreaker. So autopsy it is. Wow. What an upset.

What an upset. You can send me the money later, Pedro. I was not expecting that. I know. See? I had already written down Alien. See? This is why you stay, because anything can happen.

happen on this podcast. All right, we got death proof versus raw. Sabrina. Two very different looks at what sisterhood means. One is actual sisters and the other one is a group of women who come together to support each other. This is a very difficult one. There's such different films.

I think death proof is still going to take the cake on this one though. it's also I feel like the stronger film and the one that you can go back to I know that isn't supposed to be the deciding factor but it's kind of one of those ones where you cheer for the women at the end whereas raw you're kind of like whoa okay like the sister's in prison and it doesn't exactly end well valid point valid point Pedro yeah well when we're thinking this is a very difficult choice as well but when we're thinking of like like my own tiebreakers I do have to kind of resort to the performances and the film that I would, you know, I'll go back and watch numerous times. So with that said, I would have to go with death proof. All right, Jessica.

Yeah, I would go with death proof. It just, to me, feels more like specifically about female empowerment, whereas Raw, for me, is like coming of age before female empowerment specifically, if that makes sense. So I'm going to go with death proof. So death proof keeps on moving. on. All right, we got Bysantium versus the Ginger Snaps. Sabrina.

Okay, this side is getting really hard. This is not fair. That's the plan. This is where it gets tough. So for this one, even though they're both very strong sisters slash mother-daughter relationships, I still feel like Byzantium is more about oppression and overcoming it than Ginger Snaps is. then so it wins for me. All right. Pedro.

Well, I haven't seen by Santham, so I'm going to have to forfeit my my pick here to Brian. Are you sure you want to do that, Pedro? Well, yeah. Just kidding. All right, Brian, are you awake?

Awesome. Yes, I'm still awake. I'm going to have to give it to Bisona. Jessica. I'm actually going to give it to Ginger Snap. Oh, so I guess I haven't seen Vysantium, but Phil, have you? I can't remember if you've seen it or not. I have, but I don't know how fair I'm going to be because I haven't seen Ginger Snaps

since it, like, came out. Well, you have seen both where I haven't seen either, so you're probably a little more fair than me. And my vote definitely goes for Byzantium because I think it is like the epitome of female empowerment. That's what the movie's about. I feel like we've learned that we all have to watch this movie later. Oh, well, look at the underdog just chugging away.

Right? Honestly, right? X, so Byzantium moves forward. X versus a promising young woman, Sabrina. Brutal. Brutal. Okay. One, you've got some serious sex positivity and overcoming religious trauma

and, you know, coming into yourself and, like, I've loved Jenna Ortega's character arc in that in X. Promising young woman takes a look at some serious, real life things that happen today and takes a look at, I think with feminism, we have to look at the women who are holding us back. And that is the dean. And that is, you know, just a lot of these other characters who don't want to look at the past, don't want to look at the people who, oh, but they would have had a good future. so we shouldn't accuse them.

Oh my God, this is a hard one. Can I hold off? Pass. Would you like to pass? For now? Go back to you? Yes, we'll go back to you. Pedro. I mean, it's not any more easier for me either.

This is a tough one. I'm going to go with X. Just because, again, in my own little tiebreaker, I mean, they both have great messages when it comes to female empowerment. I think females against females is a form of control by the patriarchy, and that's something that needs to be analyzed in more films, and that's something that's very prevalent and promising young woman. But X, I think, resonates with a lot of issues that I relate to more,

so I'm going to go with X. All right. Jessica. I'm going to go with promising young woman. I think even just the title tells you what you're in for and what the focus is of the story. And to me, yeah, I feel like this movie is all about female empowerment and, you know, writing the wrongs that women face because of men and because of, you know, just hierarchy and people being against us. So I'm going with Promising Young Woman. Sabrina. Okay, I'm back.

So the deciding factor for me is that in the end of X, Jenna Ortega's character goes all psycho on Maxine. And I didn't love that. So I am going to go with Promising Young Woman. Awesome. Me too. Equal time. All right.

Very happy. Anyway, not that I'm biased at all in this. All right, we're in round four. Man, this is exciting. All right. So autopsy of Jane Doe versus death proof. Sabrina. I am going to go with death proof because with autopsy of Jane Doe,

the people who were doing the autopsy didn't actually do anything. Now you bring that out. They didn't deserve to die. you're right they're good i get you wow pedro i know these aren't your i know one of wasn't your top pick but where are you at i'm gonna go with death proof still i'm sticking with that proof all right jessica yeah i think i have to go with death proof it's kind of the ultimate um you go girl movie to me yeah death proof wow would death proof have beat alien yeah eventually

I mean they were going to go I mean I think on the female empowerment thing that makes sense yeah look at that it's hard we got death proof in the Super Bowl of

I think I think the difference I think the reason why alien is so hard to like you know to justify it being eliminated is because Ripley is such a great character right the character is so strong Whereas the message of death proof is better as far as people empowerment than alien is. So that's kind of like where the confusion is.

So anyways, yeah, death proof. Good conversation though, right? That's what it's all about. All right. Who is death proof going to face? Are we looking at Byzantium? Are we looking at a promising young woman? Sabrina.

I hate you all and I'd like to leave. Oh, my God. Well, Byzantium is my little underdog that I fought for in other podcasts, or at least spoke of in other podcasts. And to me, the line that carries this film through is to curb the power of men. And there's so many variant different oppression, so much oppression in this, including Clara's oppression of her daughter, trying to keep her safe, is actually not healthy.

And the way they break out of that, Byzantium still wins this one as much as I love promising young woman. So a promising young woman? No, Byzantium. Oh, Byzantium. Sorry. Sorry. No, no, that was me. All right. Pedro. I have to forfeit because I haven't seen Byzantium. So, Brian.

Brian. Brian. All right, Jessica. The excitement. Look at the excitement. I'm going with promising young woman, actually, because Clara's character in Byzantium, while obviously have nothing against prostitution or brothels or any of that, it is a profession that she was forced into at a very young age. And in becoming a vampire and living for centuries, you would think that she could find something else that she could do because she's... Yeah.

I mean, because it seems like it's not something she's taking absolute joy in. You know what I mean? But she always is just kind of like, yeah, but it's what I can do. So it's what I do, which I just don't think is that compelling of a reason. So I'm going to go with promising young woman. I'm also going to go with a promising young woman because it continues to make me angry every time I think about it. I'm super passionate about it. So, Phil, this comes down to you.

Well, I don't know, because I don't think I've seen promising young woman. Oh, well, then I guess from while we talked about, you just got to go with your gut. So I think, well, I mean, because we've got what, two Byzantium, two promising young woman, and Pedro and I have, ah, shit. Well, I guess I have to go promising young woman. I'll I'll I'll

leave it to your guys' expertise on that one Wow You're breaking my heart I know Hey Amy's wrong I'm going to watch Sabrina

You've basically now We're all sold But go watch Byzantium I'm telling you It's a great We're doing much After this That's the next episode

So All right We got death proof Versus a promising Young Woman I'll be real Not the two movies I thought would be here

but I'm super poor. That is not, yeah, very surprising. Right? Yeah. For it. Sabrina, who is our victor? Well, I'm not the one determining the victor. We all are.

Well, you're victor for you. Who is your personal victory? When it comes to these two films, I feel like a film that is written and directed by a woman that takes the female experience and various versions of, the female experience into consideration and it's a film that makes my skin crawl. It's a film that broke me and made me cry, which is not easy to do. Promising young woman. All right,

Pedro. Emma Sabrina, you convinced me. I was going to go with death proof, but I can't argue your points. Yeah, I'm going to go with promising young woman. Jessica. So I love death proof, but it is produced by Weinstein. So I'm also going to go with promising young woman. Me too. Could you imagine if a Weinstein film one? I know.

It'll be very problematic. This was a lot of fun. Thank you so much to you two ladies. I'm just going to give you both a chance to promo your software to find your books. Jessica, I have subscribed to your podcast with Tammy, so I will be binging it today when I walk my dog. But if either one of you, maybe just so you can go first, talk about where people can find your podcast or anything else you're up to, and then Sabrina can come in with talking about her stuff.

Okay, great. Yeah, I'm on the podcast with Tammy and Mark Nato and Revenant Venn. And you can find us wherever podcasts are found. We're on some social media, but I think we're the most active in our Facebook group, probably. Mark does occasionally post on Instagram and such, but that's basically it. And then for horror through her eyes, that's the podcast that Tammy and I run. We're very active on like every social media platform for that one.

And then Tammy also takes care of our YouTube channel. So I do all the editing and releasing of the actual podcast and she does all the YouTube's. But you can just look up horror through her eyes. Or technically the podcast comes out through Spotify, but it's also on any podcasting app. And yeah, so that's where you can find us. Any Patreon's yet, or we're still beginning that journey before you get to Patreon?

Yes, we're still, it is something that we are wanting to do eventually. We just really wanted to solidify like our format and stuff. And I think we're pretty much in a good place for that. So we're going to get a website and then we'll probably do like the buy me a coffee thing. And then eventually Patreon. Yeah. I'll buy you tequila shots instead of coffees. Is that okay?

Okay, sweet. Yes. I don't know if that's an app. It doesn't matter. That's what you can use the money for. Okay, great. Sabrina, do you want to plug your stuff and where we can find your awesome books?

Sure, yeah. You can find me pretty much Facebook and Instagram under Sabrina Vorman or S. Foreman. Also my website. If you Google my name, that's all that shows up. I will say my book is coming out, March 15th. And if you liked Byzantium, I think you'll like it. Very vampire, female empowerment sort of novels series.

Do you have a preferred way that we purchase your books? Because I am going to purchase them. But what is your preferred method of purchasing? Honestly, your best bet is going to be Amazon. Unless you want to sign copy, you can hit me up and I can send you one. Oh, awesome. Love it. And before I pass it back to Phil, my name is Heather Powell.

I do the Friday Nightmares podcast on Legion Podcast Network, and I also do the Summer Party Massacre podcast, and you can find me on Facebook. Ideally, I'm more active on the Friday Nightmares page, and I'm also a Patreon of the Horror Returns. So I will pass this back to Phil to close us out. Well, yeah, check us out on all the stuff. Go to thehorror returns.com. That's where we got all our stuff that you can buy some t-shirts or some shit, right? We got some pretty cool artwork and some merch. It's good stuff.

Check it out. And until the horror returns again, Brian. Bye. Bye, thank you.