The Horror Returns - THR - Ep. #62: The Shining (1980) & The Dark Tower (2017) (Re-upload)

Episode Date: December 30, 2021

This week Jay Black talks some Stephen King with us. Thanks for listening!

Yo, you're listening to The Hoare Returns. This is Pachamolor's sickhead from 31. Let's see. Hello, putto, how'stas? Here I'm here I'm a... Marikon. You're going to die. Delight and dread.

Who fantasize about fear. Who glorify and gold. Welcome. You have found the place where the horror returns. Listeners beware. This podcast contains major plot spoilers and the foulest of language.

Join us in celebrating the old and the new, the best, and the worst in horror. This is the podcast that proves the horror never ends. Each episode, we seek out and review a brand new movie. Usually horror. In this case, sort of. We're kind of getting back to horror, it looks like, finally, after all these summer blockbusters. And then we go back and find a classic work, and we're looking at similarities as well as differences. We do include spoilers for the new film.

However, we're going to, for the most part, wait until the very end of the show to spoil the new feature. Maybe a little hard on this one, particularly not to spoil it a bit. And if you haven't read the books, you might get spoiled a little, so just fair warning. But we'll let you know before we get into the big spoilers with an alert. And if you don't want to hear it, just turn us off at that point. And after you see the movie, you can pick it up again and you won't miss a thing. Obviously, we assume you guys have already seen the classic film, so we're always going to have spoilers when we discuss anything that has been out for at least a year.

The other thing we may do from time to time is use a few four-letter words. This is usually a horror podcast, and horror movies tend to be R-rated. and you guys can pretty much expect us to be too. I'm Lance, and with me as always is my co-host Brian Philip, sadly couldn't make it tonight to tonight's recording, but that's okay because joining us tonight is a guy we've had on before, I think for the Blair Witch saga. Is that correct, Jay?

That is correct, yes, sir. All right. So once again, we have Jay Black in the house. house, what's, uh, what's been up with you, brother? Uh, same old, same all, you know, a lot of work and, uh, just working, working every day and putting in a lot of hours coming home and just kind of doing the same old routine day after day. Pretty boring.

Brian, you got anything more exciting to talk about? More exciting than that? No. All right. We're all in the same boat. My wife's been out of town for a week, so I've definitely caught up on a lot of I have a big sample size from which to draw my cool of the week. And speaking of cool of the week, Jay, as you know, how we start the show, man.

You want to go first? Wednesday. Went out Wednesday night and I saw the movie Dunkirk. And that is my absolute, absolute cool of the week. It's probably, it's a contender for the best movie the year so far for me. I had a really great time with Dunkirk. It was an amazing movie, a very amazing movie. I don't want to go too much into spoilers or anything like that,

but I got to tell you, there's a lot of flack on the movie, or the most flak that the movie is getting. It doesn't really focus on, you know, characters per se, does it dig into, you know, the characters that it's following. And for most movies, I probably would agree with that. But for this one, I mean, I was fine with it. It was just kind of following, you know, what is happening in that event. And, you know, just and the characters that you're kind of following are, you know, they're reacting and they're trying to survive in there with that.

So you're kind of step for, the viewers kind of step for step with those characters. So you don't really need to dig into their past and who they are. And what even, sometimes you don't even get people's names. But it's, you know, I don't think I've seen a Nolan movie that I have not. liked or loved and did not disappoint at all. Yeah, I think that was somebody's cool of the week last week, wasn't it, Brian? I think it was fun, so. I believe so.

I believe so, yeah. Definitely a trend. What about you, Brian? I'm going to have to go Game of Thrones again. Oh, yeah. And one spoiler for anybody who hasn't listened. I'm just going to say I just loved Lady Tyrell's little mic drop mom. on at the end of the episode.

Got to see that. I'm a week behind right now. I'm waiting for the week to get back so we can watch it together. All right. We can't say, yeah. We can't say anything more about Atlanta. You need to get on that right away. Yeah, I kind of caught one little scene where it looks like

Circe and Jamie aren't trying too hard to cover up their little incestuous antics too much anymore. Yeah, I think the cat's out of the bag and they're okay. Right. So that's the big one, Brian? Yeah, that's pretty much all I got really time for this week. Cool. Yeah, I could take the easy route and just say, you know, my rewatch of Clockwork Orange was the coolest of the week, which, of course, is probably the best film that I've seen all week. But I did a show with Kevin over on MacNez, and we, I think he's, I think he's, I think he's,

already got it up. So we've, uh, we just kind of went through about an hour and a half discussion of Kubrick and Clockwork Orange, but I would say my cool of the week is a movie that's new to Netflix. Highly, highly recommended. Have you guys seen The Devil's Candy? Um, it's, it's, um, it's pretty good. It's probably, I don't know if it's going to be in my top five or it might be if I'm, I don't know if he puts it to a top 10 list. It might, it might squeak in there. I really enjoyed it. Especially, what is the actor's name? Ethan Embry?

No, the one that was basically the killer. Pruitt Taylor Vince. Okay. Yeah, he was pretty, he was pretty creepy in the movie. Right. And I really enjoyed the actress who played the daughter. Yeah, very convincing. I thought she was really good in, yeah, really good in the movie.

Mm-hmm. You heard anything about this, Jay? no no nothing man I highly recommend it it's not it's not even really that long I think it's about 80 minutes and if you've got Netflix it's it's you know

you're already paying for it anyway it's directed by Sean Byrne I think he's an Australian he's either an Australian Australian or New Zealand director but the only other thing I've ever seen him direct there's another one that was on Netflix called the

loved ones Brian, I think we've talked about that one before, right? Yeah, that's a good one too. It's where the chick, she kind of lives a cloistered life by her parents, and she really wants to go to the prom with this one guy, so they basically kidnap him and force him to have a prom at home, which becomes very bloody and violent. It's just a really bizarre, trippy, trippy movie.

It's highly recommended, but yeah devil's candy it may end up on my top five man i mean i really enjoyed it and i i watched a lot of horror movies this week so it had some stiff competition yeah i'm looking it up right now let's get that pruitt taylor vince that's i like that guy that's i like everything he's done he usually plays those weird just strange characters and he does it so well right and he's got those those eyes. Those eyes. Yeah, yeah.

And he kind of, he's really good. I noticed on some of his movies, and what was one of I saw that he was really good at was the John Cusack when they were all stuck in the hotel. You guys remember that? Identity. Identity, yeah. And just the way when he's, I just remember when they were kind of, when he was

being interviewed and he was talking, and the way he just wouldn't look at people in the eyes. And like you said, he has an eye twitch. He's just kind of looking up, kind of looking down and all around. I mean, he does that. He plays that creepy characters so well and everything he does. So, yeah, this is definitely going to be on my list to watch. Yeah, highly recommended. Highly recommended.

So, Brian, we got any news this week? Any headlines? Ian McShane's just got casted in the new Hellboy reboot. He is going to be playing Professor Broom, who was previously played by John Hurt in the previous two movies. Oh, wow. So I'm pretty high on this reboot. I'm everything I'm hearing, I'm not mad at.

So hopefully, I think they're going to be shooting if that already started. So we'll probably get this movie sometime, I would say, mid-2018. Gotcha. Go ahead. Who's Hellboy, do you know? Do you remember? I remember you guys had mentioned before, and it's the... David, David Harbour, if I'm saying his name right, he was the sheriff and he was the sheriff in Stranger Things.

That's right. That's right. Yeah, I mean, you're going to put enough makeup and stuff on him. So yeah, I mean, I can, I got no problem with that, honestly. I really don't. Yeah, and they're going the rated R route with this one. Oh, okay. That's good. Yeah, like I said, everything I'm hearing, I'm, I'm, I'm, pretty cool with so far. Let's see. AMC announced a whole

bunch of shows coming out. The first one is going to be developed by the actor, a comedic actor, Rain Wilson. He's, uh, yeah, he's going to be doing a sci-fi series and he's going to executive produce and star in.

And as of now it is untitled. For some reason, I just can't get on board with that guy. I don't think he's that, I don't like him. I really don't. Right. Yeah, he's hit or miss with me. Yeah. You, uh, you, you, uh, when he, when he was made into the fish boy and a house of

a thousand corpses. I don't like him in anything. I think it all started, you know what? And, and maybe it's not fair to this guy, but it all started with Transformers too. He was like the professor or something. It just, oh, I don't know. That'll do it. That was one of the worst parts of the movie was just the way he was acting and just the, I don't know why.

I don't know why it rubbed me the wrong way. I can't really explain it, but ever since then, I've never seen The Office. So, and I, and that's probably a part of his guy, I don't want to watch that guy. And I think that's kind of a part that's kept me away. But I don't know. I just don't like that guy. Speaking of House of a Thousand Corps is his co-star in that one, Chris Hardwick, is also getting a new AMC series called, called Underbelly, and Underbelly will explore the dark side of horror fandom.

Wow. Is this, so this is more like a documentary? Yeah. Interesting. So, I know he's got his thing going on with the Talking Dead and all that, so no surprise. No surprise they gave him another show. Is he like a new Ryan Seacrest where he just does everything for AMZ? He seems, and I know he does a lot of hosting stuff for, like, Comic-Con and, like, other things.

Hey, man, the dude lives the life we all wish we lived, am I right? Yeah, I mean, yeah, no complaints. I mean, actually, I mean, like, I like when he does, you know, all his talking shows and all that stuff. So, yeah, I've never had an issue with him. So, I mean, it's good he's getting all those jobs and all that. I mean, it's, you know, if it's somebody that you can watch and, you know, you can be entertained by, then, you know, all for it. Lucky bastard. Let's see here.

No shit. Okay, another AMC show, but this time with Blumhouse, they are going to be teaming for horror anthology series called Wicked West, and it will tell true Wild West horror tales. Oh, no.

Come on, we don't need that shit. Are you serious? Yep. All Wild West Horror anthology. Come on. AMC, what are you thinking? Oh, my God.

Maybe Roland Deshain can show up or something, huh? Man. Let's see. AMC's not done there. They are also going to be teaming up with Greg Nicotero, who is developing a sci-fi, another horror anthology series called Shock Theater. And this will be a throwback to sci-fi horror B-movie classics. All right.

That I'm most excited about. about for sure. What about you, Jay? Sounds interesting. Yeah, out of everything you mentioned, that definitely excites me the most. Yeah, I mean, the actually, you know what? I love Westerns. The horror, while West has me intrigued, but I just have a strange feeling. It's going to be over the top with, how do I put this, with, I want to say future elements, but one thing I don't like is when you have a period piece and they have, you know, just settings or whatever or incidents that are in there that that aren't, you know, for the time, you know, probably dialogue or if they have, you know, certain weapons or things like that.

And I got a strange feeling that this is going to touch in on that, that they're going to pull in stuff that really wouldn't happen in the Wild West or wouldn't happen to the 1800. So that's, I mean, again, I want to see the West, but it's, yeah, I'm going to roll my eyes at this one for right now. My thoughts, exactly, man. And we're going to finish off AMC's upcoming new schedule with their last show they're planning with Eli Roth. And this one is going to be called AMC Visionaries, Eli Ross History of Horror. And it will be a six-part look at the genre. So more like a documentary series. Yeah, and only six episodes.

That's not bad. That may be worth watching. So is AMC, or is this basically telling us that they've decided to go? all horror and sci-fi pretty much moving forward? I would say because I think they're planning, along with the Eli Roth, AMC visionary series, they are talking about doing a James Cameron story of science fiction and a Robert Kirkman, the Secret History of Comics. So I think that's the route AMC's going.

Interesting. Yeah, I can get on board with that. Some people may have a problem with Eli Roth, but one thing you can't really dispute is he is definitely a fan of the, you know, horror genre. So whether you don't like what he makes or what he writes, but at least you can appreciate that he pretty much likes what everybody else does. So, I mean, he's just as big as a fan as everybody. So with him being part of a documentary and just talking and discussing about everything,

shit, yeah, I can be on board with that real quick. Yeah, really quick, Lance, I heard your podcast you did with Kevin and you guys brought of Death Wish. Oh, yeah, yeah, the new one with, uh, of Bruce Willis, right? Yeah, Eli Roth directing. Sure. Did you guys, by any chance,

watched the trailer? I saw bits and pieces of it. Jay, did you check it out? I did not. This is a remake of the original Death Wish? Yes. Okay, okay. Yeah, I think we're going to talk about it more

next episode. So, yeah, to answer Kevin's question, I think we will be putting it on the schedule because what I've seen in the trailer, we're going to have to discuss the the differences between that and the original because... That's cool.

Yeah. I don't necessarily know if I'm feeling Bruce Willis is in this Charles Bronson role, so... Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Well?

So, yeah, I just wanted to throw that out there. Definitely a re-vis, a reimagining of Death Wish then, for sure, huh? Yeah. Interesting. As far as news, that's pretty much it right there.

Very slow news week. All right. Well, that's cool. You know, the week after Comic-Con, I guess there has to be sort of a letdown week, you know? Yeah. But the good news is we ain't done yet, boys, because Jay, as you know, it's time to take that little trip down to the trailer park. Brian, what's our first new trailer to talk about this week? Okay, the first one we're going to talk about is a new Netflix movie, Carlin,

called What Happened to Monday, starring Newmey Rapace, Willemdafo, and Glenn Close. Great cast. Yeah, I'm interested. I like these kind of futuristic movies that, you know, kind of shows you. I don't know how to put it, actually, where the society's changed. And I'm really interested to see why they're doing this. with the children and the whole population thing. Right, right.

It's got me intrigued. Yeah, yeah, definitely. I mean, it had kind of an orphan black vibe to it. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, because you have the same, well, it's not the same, you know, like multiple clones and multiple versions of the same, of the same person. Now, they're all together and this one, orphan black, they're out finding each other. But yeah, that's what I got from it. I got very Orphan Black-ish vibe to it.

And I never finished Orphan Black, but I, you know, I didn't not like it. You know, I just stopped watching it for whatever reason, never went back to it. But I always meant to go back and finish it. So, yeah, this definitely has me intrigued. Yeah, well, we all agreed, I think, that in the movie that we reviewed earlier in the year that she was in, that Numi Rapace is definitely can play a badass, right, Brian? Yeah, she looks like There's some scenes where she looks like a badass in this

And there's a couple little comedic things in there I like the scene where she was told to jump through the window Into the dumpster because it was full of trash And there was nothing in it I like that little scene right there So I'm definitely going to check this out This got a release date of August 18th And that's coming straight to Netflix

Awesome Yeah, well we'll be there for sure It looks good. It looks very intriguing. Okay. We are going to stay on Netflix because our next trailer we're going to talk about is for a new series called Mind Hunter, starring Jonathan Groff, Holly McKinney,

McKinney, if I'm probably saying his name wrong, Anna Trove, and it's going to have three episodes directed by David Fincher. Hmm. That had me hooked right away. Just that alone had me intrigued, yep. Yeah, well, he had a runaway hit with House of Cards, and he's the one who first created that show. So I would imagine it'll be worth watching. I usually am not big on these, quote-unquote, police procedurals, but this looks like it might have a little bit extra to it, you know?

Yeah, I mean, it's, it's, I just started this, the show. I can't remember what station it is. I don't know if it's like, see, it might be identity channel, whatever. whatever, it's about the Unabomber. So, you know, it's about, you know, the FBI guys, you know, the psychology guys who go in and they try to figure out, you know, what the mindset of a killer. That's how you got to try to capture the Unabomber. And that was kind of what it was. And this just, that's basically kind of what this is.

It's these guys, they're interviewing, they're talking to, you know, actual serial killers so they can play, play the game on basically their level and I guess try to stop future ones or, you know, And I couldn't really tell if they were trying to, you know, create the method where they can stop future serial killers or if they're looking for one or two. And they're also talking to, you know, other ones to try to get, you know, a mindset of what's going, how they think so they can go get the other guys. Kind of like a silence of the lamb sort of, you know, type thing, you know. So, yeah. And so I heard Fincher was on board, watch the trailer. I was like, yeah, man, this is, this is, I'm down for this. Because this is going to be a psychological type of series more than.

just, you know, like police procedures and this and it's no law and order or whatever, those things are like that. But I think this is going to, this looks really good. I'm very excited for this one. Yeah, I'll definitely check it out. You pretty, you pretty pumped up for it, Brian? Yeah. And my wife is also into these, as he put it, like police procedural type shows.

Right. So this is probably a day one binge. Cool. Let's see. Series debuts on Netflix, October 13th. Oh, good timing. Good timing. I think that's a Friday the 13th too, isn't it?

I think so. I think so. I was thinking it was for some reason. Like there's going to be a lot to celebrate this October, you know? Yes, it is. And you are correct, sir. That is right. Good timing.

Smart marketing. You got to give it to Netflix. These guys know how to market. Guys and gals definitely know how to market their product. Yes. And let's see. Our final trailer we're going to talk about is Ghost House, starring Scout Taylor Compton,

James Landry Heberk, Mark Boone Jr. And Russell Jeffrey Banks. And a little spoiler alert for our listeners. We might possibly have one of these cast members on the show here. just trying to lock down the time. Yeah, that would be great. I know exactly who you're talking about, and I don't want to spoil it, but there's another

film that he's got coming up that I'm extremely interested in seeing as well. And, yeah, I mean, this movie looks like a good old-fashioned horror movie that's got a little bit of everything in it. Yes. I am really intrigued. You know, for a movie that's, it doesn't seem like it's a big budget movie. but when you watch it, it looks well made. And I feel there's going to be some good scares in it. And the one part of the trailer that has really got me interested, because my wife watched it too.

And it got her attention. She doesn't do horror at all. Wow, this may not be the best one for her to jump on it. But she wants to watch it because, yeah, the scene where he tells her to grab the little, the object off the thing and take it. Yeah, she was just like, why did he do that to her? And I was like, I don't know. She was like, I got to watch it now.

I got to see why would he do this to her, you know, especially most likely knowing what was going to happen. So it's got her intrigue. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. Yeah, that looks really good. I actually have one of those in my office at work, a ghost house. It's a little wooden structure.

It's a pretty cool looking thing. Yeah, it's supposed, you know, I don't know. if it wards off ghosts or it's, if I remember, it's supposed to work like a birdhouse, you know. Really? So the ghosts of ghosts or spirits are supposed to come in here, it gives them a place to stay or something like that. And I may have that completely wrong, but that's what I remember. I've had that in my office for a good two years now. Oh, okay, so it's a real thing.

Oh, yeah, it's definitely a real thing. Yeah, definitely real thing. It's pretty cool looking little wooden structure, though. I'll take a picture of it when I go to work and I'll send it to you guys. Oh, cool. Yeah, posting on the, uh, on the horror returns group, man. Yeah, yeah, we'll do.

So we can all check it out. So is this a remake of an Asian film or anything like that? I kind of get that vibe that it might have been a remake. You know, it kind of does look that way. I can probably check real quick. Yeah, it doesn't necessarily look like it is. I'm kind of flipping through the credits. It looks like it's all pretty much first-time people, so.

Yeah, I know the lead actress ScoutTail. Compton. She was in the Rob Zombie Halloween movies. She was Laurie Strode, right? Yes. The girl herself. So, yeah, she's got quite a, quite a horror resume for sure, man. Yeah, I'm not really finding too much if it is a remake or not. But I think those ghost house, though, I mean, they're, I mean, that's in the Asian culture out there. So I would, I would be surprised that that's the only movie. I don't know if it may not be a remake, but it can't be the first movie that involves a ghost house or anything like. that.

That would make sense. Looks pretty good to me, though. That ghost or monster or whatever the fuck she is, scared the fuck out of me, man. She jumped at her like that. I'm like, yeah, this looks like a good movie. Yeah, and it looks like a mixture of, you know, prosthetics and makeup and a little bit of CGI, but, you know, when her mouth really stretching is CGI. But, I mean, she looks really good.

She does. So, yeah, I mean, I'm excited to see all three of these. That's, I think that's a first. That's really at first. I mean, yeah. That's good. Ghost House is coming pretty soon, August 25th. Man, we got to find a way to work it in.

Yep. And that is our last trailer. All right. Well, usually Philip does our list or feedback. Brian, you want to tackle it this time? I believe you posted it on the Facebook group. What is the most anticipated movie for the remainder of 2017? Mm-hmm.

Jay, you said Star Wars above all. Above all, yeah. I mean, I don't see how Star Wars cannot be for most folks. I mean, you're finally going to get the real return of Luke Skywalker, just not some, you know, five-second clip with him staring off. He has a lightsaber. Looking wise. Yes, you're going to get some real Luke Skywalker.

So yet it's definitely out the top of my list. But if we're talking horror genre, it's definitely going to be it. I mean, this is a Stephen King year, guys. I mean, you got It, who I know a lot of people really wanted to see redone correctly. Dark Tower, I know which we're going to talk about later, is something that almost everybody that's probably rather Dark Towers love has been waiting to get on the screen. So this is a really big Stephen King year. So, yeah, I'm definitely looking forward to it. Let's see.

Mikey Truma Trash. He also said it. There you go. Not a movie, but also Stranger Things 2 is on his radar. That's a good, another good October release there. Yep. Marcus Will Turner said that's a toughie, but if we're speaking specifically horror, he gave us a pretty good list here for his most anticipated.

he said jigsaw, it, leather face, death note, happy death day, the snowman and the ritual. Which, I think we're going to be talking about a little bit of the ritual trailer next week, too. Good, good. Good friend of the show, Lars, also said it. Wow. I think pretty much it is, yeah, that's going to be, that's my most anticipated right there is it. Right. Reed Wilson said Jigsaw.

Okay. Another friend of the show, Bede, Germain? Is that how you say his last name, Lance? Yeah, or just call him, I think you can call him the terrible Aussie and get away with it. Okay, the terrible Aussie. He said, in terms of just horror, he also gave us a list. He said, it, mother. That's mine.

Mother? Yeah, I caught the little. the little, I guess it was a little teaser. The trailer? In front of dark, did you, it was it in front of Dark Tower? Yeah, I have no fucking clue of what's going on in that movie. And that's what I like about it. I was going to bring that out.

That was an awesome trailer. It was a, I really like how it was done. Let's see the rest of his list. He also has the Snowman, Annabelle Creation, Death Note, Happy Death. Day and Leatherface. Denny Louie says Star Wars the Last Jedi. No surprise there, yeah.

Justice League and Thor Ragnarok, that is all. Two out of three ain't bad, Denny. Which his comment was followed by Eric Bionock saying replace Justice League with Kingsman. Good call, good call, Eric. Patrick Lear said it, Blade Runner, and Thor Ragnarok are probably my most anticipated.

Yeah, I can't go wrong there. Yeah. Of course, I'd like to thank everybody for posting on the Facebook group. Everybody's welcome to join, you know, join in on the discussion, and that's the Horror Returns Facebook group. You can also reach us at the whole. Horror Returns at gmail.com and look us up on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, the whole deal. This is David Uri, Schizohead from 31, and you're listening to The Horror Returns. All right, boys, I guess that means it's now time to move on to our featured attractions.

And Jay, as you said, it's Stephen King's year. Well, right now we're going to celebrate Stephen King Week here at the Horror Returns with a look at the brand-new, highly, highly-in. anticipated dark tower movie, as well as 1980s The Shining. So, as always, we'll start with the older movie. It's a little bit of trivia about The Shining. It was directed by Stanley Kubrick, who our listeners would probably most know him for things like A Clockwork Orange and maybe 2001 of Space Odyssey. Writers were Stanley Kubrick with Diane Johnson, and I couldn't really find anything else

she had written. So I'm not quite sure if that was just sort of something where he mainly wrote it and she helped out or edited or what. But I don't know. And maybe listeners know anything more about Diane Johnson for sure, let us know, email us or put it in the group. We're kind of curious about that one. So according to Shelley DeVall, the infamous Here's Johnny scene took three days to film

and the use of 60 doors. That's Kubrick for you. Wow. And here's Johnny. That was ad-libbed initially by Jack Nicholson. Is that correct? I'd heard that, yeah. Yeah.

Sorry, did me to interrupt you. No, no, no, no. That's great, dude. So why would it take 60 takes? Yeah. Unless on the very last one, they said, here's Johnny. And there's like, you know what? That was so good.

Stop. Yeah, that'll stick. Let's just go with that. And now it's one of the most classic. classic lines in horror cinema. Oh, definitely. There were actually so many changes to the script during shooting that Jack Nicholson says he just pretty much just stopped reading it.

And he would read only the new pages that were given to him each day as they went on with filming. Wow. And going back to Kubrick and known for his compulsiveness and numerous retakes, he got the difficult shot of blood pouring from the elevators in only three takes. This would be remarkable if it weren't for the fact that that shot took nine days to set up. Every time the door's open and the blood poured out, Kubrick would say it doesn't look like

real blood. In the end, this one shot took approximately one year to get right. Wow. And he's right, though. It doesn't look like, it looks like a... Even now, it looks like Kool-Aid to me. It always did. It never really looked like blood.

It's just too watery. Right. Well, but it's an effective, it's an effective scene nonetheless. Emotionally, yeah. Yeah. Yes. So, Jay, you're our guest, man. We always like to give our guest's first shot.

You want to get the party started here, man? I'm going to get the party in the gold room started. And then you guys, you like that. shining one of my favorite Stephen King books definitely um I've this is probably one of the first you know scary movies I seen when I was a little kid I remember watching it on TV quite a bit it's it's a fantastic movie it still holds up um I do have you know being a fan of the book I do have issues with it being so different but you got to take the the the performances by Jack Nicholson.

And Shelley DeVall generally gets overshadowed just because Jack Nicholson is Jack Nicholson. And I thought she was absolutely fantastic in this movie. You know, I love the fact that she's not very an attractive woman at all. So you have a real, a realistic person, a realistic mom, a realistic wife who's dealing with the issues of the complication with their husband and dealing with the complications, definitely of her child and all that. So I think she really brings that role to it. And that's what really enhances that movie and kind of makes it more, you know, brings more humanity to the situations that she's in. You know, she's not just the person, you know, that's always screaming.

Yeah, and she's doing that. But the way she's reacting to the scenario, the way she, everything, you know, she's confused and she's just completely scared. I think that's one of the better parts of the movie for me with Shelly DeValle. underrated for sure huh definitely definitely and of course you know that really has i think it does have the dude a lot with jack nicholson if you had another performer in there that wasn't as strong i think she would shine pun not intended i just got that yeah i didn't mean it oh yeah out okay let's go back and rewind that one um no but i think she would actually uh

i really do i really think she would be more remember for this role if it would wasn't for Jack Nicholson, just being Jack Nicholson in this movie and knocking it even further out the ballpark than anybody could expect it. Well, you know, this movie wasn't very well received by critics when it came out. As a matter of fact, if I'm not mistaken, I think she actually won a Golden Razzie Award for Worst Actress or something like that. Did you hear that? No, I did not know that.

I don't see that. I don't agree with that at all. Yeah, I don't either. but I don't know, man. I love the book. I mean, this was actually the first Stephen King book that I ever read, and I probably read it about, I must have read it about 78 or 79, so I was, you know, 10 or 11 years old when I read the book. And I just absolutely loved it. The book captivated me from the beginning.

And when I first saw this, when I first saw the movie, man, I absolutely hated it because. I could see that. man, it varied too much from the book, you know? And I really took umbrage of that. Yeah, I mean, it did. And this is a weird movie for me because normally if it's something, but for me, I've seen the movie. I didn't read the book until well into my late teens, maybe early 20s. So, you know, that came much later.

So I just had the reference from the movie on that. But for the most part, if I really like a movie, I'm not. sorry, if I really like a book and then you see the movie adaptation and if it varies extremely to the left of it, I'm not going to like the movie as well. But for this one, it's a weird one for me because I still appreciate the movie for what it is, for the acting in it, even though it is so far from the movie, I mean, sorry, from the book, which is one of my favorites. One of the aspects, I think, is Jack Nicholson's character. Now, not the actor, but, you know, Jack Torrance. In the book, He's actually a pretty happy go lucky kind of guy for the most part.

And then he just dives into madness. And here, for me, just seems Jack Nicholson is already halfway in. You know, he's just an angry cocksucker. He's just fed up with everything. And this is his last much. I think so. I think he kind of started off that way. Or he just got into it really quick.

So it's definitely a different Jack Torrance from the book than it is in the movie. I was okay with it. I think just because of the strong performance of Jack Nicholson, which probably really helps me like this movie so much the way, like it as much as I do, even though it varies from the book. Right. Well, Brian, what were your overall thoughts, man? Well, I did not read the book. So I'm coming from a whole different perspective. I really enjoyed this movie. This movie, Jack Nicholson shines. He plays that. that creepy. He can either play creepy really well or an asshole really well. And you got both in this movie. Yes, he did.

And I kind of agree with you, Jay, how he kind of was an asshole, I think, before all this. Because you have the scene where she wants to leave. She wants to take Danny to get help. And he's worried about losing his job. And he mentions all the shitty jobs he's had since teaching. that he can go back to and he's not trying to do that because basically his career

will be ruined and it just it seems he has resentment for having the wife and the kid and that's what's kind of like holding him back and it's like he has to do he's doing this because he has to you know like you said he's already an asshole

yeah and may I say the three of them together they're pretty creepy looking themselves that whole car ride to the hotel and the discussion about cannibalism and they just looked odd. The three of them just looked odd together. Right. A bit awkward, huh?

Yeah, every time I watch this, I just notice more and more that's just creepy. I do agree the blood scene, the blood looks horrible, but just the overall shot of the scene and the blood just flowing out. It's pretty, pretty jarring to me. Yeah. I'm sorry, go ahead. I was also going to say the music is, it's perfect for this movie. Music was phenomenal.

Yeah. Absolutely phenomenal. And if you don't believe that, look at the little video that our listener Joe Bale put up. Did you guys check that out? Shining Dunn is a family comedy. I did. Wow, what a difference the music makes, huh? That was funny.

But overall, I thought, oh, no, that's cool. Overall, I thought everybody was fantastic. And you telling me that Shelley Duval got a Razzie for her performance, it really blows my mind. I looked it up while you guys were talking. She did not win, fortunately, but she actually was nominated. That makes no sense. Yeah, they were way off on that one. Good God.

way off. Well, let me ask you guys this. Have you guys ever heard of a documentary came out about a couple of years ago called Room 237? Sure have. Have you guys checked that one out? Oh, yes.

Oh, I have not. I was going to check it up this week. I'd check. I looked at some theories about this movie online, so I might be able to follow you guys in a new discussion. All right. Well, I just want to, especially for our listeners that haven't seen it. It's a very interesting documentary. I'm just going to cover a

couple of the theories. It's basically there, there's some people that have their own personal theories about what the hidden messages and things like that in the movie really are. One person thinks that the film is really about the genocide of Native Americans because there's so much Indian, I guess, imagery throughout it. For example, there were cans of Calamee, baking powder noticeable in the background of two important scenes. Yeah, but everything was in the background of those scenes. You had your Crisco, you had your peas and corn, so eh. Well, hey, let me go into the next theory.

You had your, you had your tang. Right above the Calamee on the next shelf up was nothing but tang. And another theory is that the, is that the whole thing was basically Kubrick admitting that he faked the moon landing for NASA. Yeah. And that's why you have Danny wearing the Apollo. 11 shirt and stuff like that. Yep. Yep. Yep.

So those are like two of the crazier ones. There was somebody, I think, that said it had something to do with the Holocaust or Jewish genocide or something like that. I don't know. Anti-Semitic caricatures or something like that. Yeah. I mean, which they kind of, they use the same as the, you know, like the Native American, you know, genocide as well. So they kind of use the same, their point of views of the same things that you're seen in the movie.

No, but that's what this really means. No, but this is what that really means. I mean, it's a very interesting documentary to see all these crazy things out there. I mean, there is a lot of things in the movie that, you know, this kind of don't make sense. You know, the one that really stuck with me was when Jack Torrance is on his second trip, or when he finally goes to the hotel with his family, I think it was when he went with his family,

and he's waiting in the lobby and he's reading a magazine. And I believe it was like Playgirl magazine. magazine. That's right. It's like, he just kind of picked it up and was thumbing through it, right? But yeah, but that's what the idea was.

It was just a magazine. What the hell is he looking at a playgirl? And what's it doing in the lobby of that hotel? That is, that was really odd to me. I don't know what the significance of that was. If it was an end joke from a prop master or a joke that Jack Nicholson wanted to do just to see if anybody who knows,

but it was, but it has a lot of weird things like that. you're like, huh, yeah, yeah, that does make sense. Why would it be like that? Some of them can be explained, you know, of certain shots, hey, you know, it's daylight in this one and you don't see the daylight in that one. Well, you know, if they're film on all hours, especially if you have Kubrick, who loves retakes and retakes, you know, especially you do retakes all day, yeah,

you're going to get a different lighting in different rooms at certain parts. And he's going to say, you know, I want take number four on this conversation, and I want take number 27 on this part of the, on this camera view of the conversation. And, of course, the lighting's going to be a little off. You know, as filmmakers, you've got to accept that and all that. But it's into it. But it is definitely, definitely, Brian, I really strongly suggest you watch that documentary. I think you will get a kick out of it.

You probably won't believe everything on there, but it's fun to see all these things that are there being pointed out of the movie. Yeah, and I just checked real quick for our listeners, The Shining and Room 237. They're both on Netflix. Yes, yes, yes. Oh, cool. All right. So what do you guys think of the significance? because I really don't think that Kubrick does anything accidentally,

especially if he's taking that many takes and stuff like that. And I want to get later into a few of the differences between the book and the movie that were pretty obvious. Some people think it was almost like Kubrick giving a middle finger. Yeah. Changes he made. Yeah, especially. I think the big one that's really called out is the Voltwagon, right? Yeah, the color of the actual Volkswagen in the book, you actually see it crushed by a truck.

in one of Scatman's Cruthers scenes there toward the end when he shows up in Colorado? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yep, because in the book, it's a red one in the movie. It's a yellow one. Right. As he's driving up, he sees this red one thing crushed. And why is it, yeah, I think it's this big F you to Stephen King because he was verbal about, he was very. And normally he says that he doesn't really care how his movies are made or something like that.

I guess it depends on the book, whatever. But this one, yeah, he was very verbal about, this is terrible. You're just taking the store and you're completely thrown it away and making too many dumb changes or whatever. Yeah, he did not like it at all. Well, let me ask you this. Why do you guys think that Grady's name changed from Charles Grady being described at the beginning as the guy that went and murdered all of his children in the 70s to what was it, Delbert Grady or something like that, who was actually. like in 1920s clothing? What do you guys think the significance of that is?

You know what? I don't even remember catching that. I'm wondering if Grady even really existed, guys, or if that's just somebody that Nicholson made up as he was going mad. It's like he was misremembering that there was another caretaker. Because in a way, he had always been the caretaker from the beginning, and that's why you see him in that picture at the end. He was there in the 20s also.

Yeah. But why? why would they make that up and why would he change the character's name and the time period he was from? I mean, there's a lot of possibilities. That kind of gets you thinking a little bit. Like, what's reality and what's like false memories that Nicholson has had? Because really, this whole movie is mostly from his point of view. And I think he would have to say that he would be a very unbelievable or, you know, he's a he's a narrator that I think would be very hard to believe everything is exactly as he remembers it happening you know what I'm saying yeah yeah I mean that could be you're saying like the the Delphin Grady the 20s bartender for the most part or the waiter right sure but because but the girls were still there and he never saw the girls now Danny still saw the girls that's right Danny saw the twins and they and they were Grady's

kids. In the 70s, right? In the 70s, yeah. It was like 1970, 1971, when he happened. But like you're saying, he pulled that name. But didn't he find them in the newspaper as well? Wasn't he like in the boiler room and he came across the newspaper that had that information? Brian, is that true?

I think I remember hearing about that. I think so. Yeah, I know it was definitely in the book. And I'm trying to, I think it was in the in the movie as well. But yeah, I didn't catch that. That his name changed. And if they brought it up with the documentary, I just don't remember. But they were both Grady's.

That's the weird part. Yeah, they were both Grady's. Yeah, that's interesting. That definitely is interesting. And maybe like you said, he's projecting a person that's already done that into, you know, the ghost that's influencing him to do it now, you know, to follow the same path. You know, maybe it's just like, you know, they're all agent Smith. You know, maybe they're all great here. Yeah, there you go.

Hey, that's a good theory, man. You got me thinking now. What's your theory on all this, Brian? I did not even catch that the names was different. This is, this is, I'm probably going to rewatch this again tonight because I am going through all these theories online. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

So I'm going to get back to you guys on that because I did not even catch the name change. Yeah, man, it's just layer upon layer upon layer of what's reality and what's fantasy or, you know, false memory or, you know, something you made up or, you know, I think, I guess a lot of it. I mean, obviously, I think we would all agree that something supernatural is happening there. That it's definitely a haunted hotel, right? Oh, definitely. And it's, you know, the ghosts or whoever there, they're definitely heavily influencing Jack. and that's you know and it's his take on

you know what is he seeing what is because wasn't something happened in the 40s or is it the lady in room 217 was it 237 or 217? I think of the book from the book to the movie the room number changes I know that

that's right it was 217 in the book and 237 in there I think maybe she was the one that killed herself in the 40s but like you said that sounds right that makes sense the party was in the 20s Okay, with all the people having sex and animal costumes and weird shit like that going on? Yes, yes. And in the book, I think they were all, and then they all, you know, gould out and you can see like they're all, you remember how when he was kissing on the naked lady and then when he kind of like snapped out of it, sort of, she's all gross and, you know, decomposing and all that. And I think in the book, the partygoers end up like that as well. So that definitely could have some influence on what he's, what his reality.

of which Grady he's talking about. Right. One thing that the book, I think, pushed a lot more than the movie was that I think it was quite obvious in the book that the ghosts were not really so much after Jack. They were just basically fucking with him to get to Danny, right? Because they wanted to suck his life essence out. Because he had the Shining, so he was more of a delicious treat to them or something, right? Yes, yes.

Which always got, I always questioned that. I mean, how come Dick Hollerand didn't have as many issues as Danny was having? If his shine, now his shine wasn't as strong as Danny's, but it was clearly there. And if he wasn't as strong as Danny, how was he able to hold off? You know, the way he did, or was he just not there, or is it just really manifest when the place is empty and you only have a few people to mess with or something like that? and that's where the ghosts or the, you know, or the hotel can really focus on folks. And if he gets out of dodge when everybody else does, you know, maybe that's his protection. I don't know.

But I always wondered that, yeah, I always wondered why he didn't, why he didn't have the effects, you know. Right. Because his subjection would have been, you know, keep Danny away right away. You know, but he was kind of okay with it. You know, hey, this is going to be scary and shit's going to be fucked up. So just stay strong, boy. And, you know, call me when you can. You know, I thought it was like, wow.

you know here's a gun you know just you know you tell a little five-year-old kid all right hold this gun and if something comes just start shooting well maybe he was a little bit older and wiser and more able to protect himself because he'd been through more than Danny and Danny was a little bit more you know innocent and not as not as equipped to deal with it so speaking of haleran you know there's the biggest difference in my opinion between the book and the movie and that That fucking pissed me off, man. That did.

I mean, he was basically, I mean, for the most part, he was a useless character in the movie. Yeah, he was there to get them a vehicle to get out of there. Basically, that's it. That's why he showed up. Yep. Yep. I mean, in the book, he does have a little bit more connection to Danny. There's a little bit more, you know, Obi-1 to Luke sort of, you know, relationship.

Even though it's brief, it's still a little strong. And they actually communicate in the book, I believe, right? It's not just sent out on ice cream or whatever. Yeah, yeah. And it's not just a feeling he gets. I got to get to Danny's. No, he's talking to him. He's like, Dick, you need to get over here now.

That's right. Yeah, that's right while he's in Florida. And Danny's yelling so loud in his head. He's like, you need to calm down because you're going to kill me. You're too strong. I do remember that. So there's more explanation on the shining in the book as far as the actual power? I don't think so.

I don't think there's more explanation as to what it is. But, I mean, Dick doesn't really know. What you get in the movie is pretty much how he explains it in the book as well. You know, my grandma had it and I had it. And, you know, it's just, it's shine. We can talk to each other. But there's just more connecting and more interaction between Danny and him in the book. There's just more of it.

Okay. Yeah, it comes across as much stronger. What was, hey, I would put this forward. Jack Nicholson has always, I mean, at least as long as we've known him. Of course, you know, he goes back to parts in the 50s and 60s. He used to do a lot of work for Roger Corman in his really, really old cheesy horror movies and stuff like that. He was the dentist in the original Black and White Little Shop of Horrors, which was a great role. But he's always been this crazy guy.

but my theory on him after watching this movie was that up until this film he was just more of like a crazy but basically good happy go lucky kind of guy like even in one flew over the cuckoo's nest he was never sinister he was nuts but he was never sinister this movie I think this movie

changed Nicholson's persona for future roles because after this one okay you get him playing the Joker and Batman very sinister character you know you get him you get him playing basically the devil and the witches of Eastwick. Oh, yeah. I just think that this role, I think after this role, Nicholson took a much more sinister turn.

I mean, even a few, you can look at a few good men the same way. You can look at the departed the same way. Yeah, I mean. Right. Yeah, yeah, definitely went down that path. I mean, if it worked for him, too, I mean, you probably looked back at the street. He's like, damn, look at, I did it. I did a, look at what I just made.

This is awesome, you know. And which most people agree. So, yeah, you know, stick with what works. I get that. I get that. One of the main differences, and I'm glad that that Kubrick went this way. And Brian, I don't know if you know this, but there is no maze in the book. Yeah, I heard that.

They're actually, they're animal hedges, you know, like they're lions and bears and everything like that. But he couldn't get, if I remember correctly, he couldn't get the special effects to work the way. way it would to make it look realistic. So he decided to go with the maze, which I think probably maybe that's why he spent so many shots and days on the blood was because, you know,

I got to get something right. If I can't get the maze right, at least I got to get this right, you know? So I can appreciate what he did in the decision he made on that. Although the animals are a lot creepier in the bug. Oh, no shit. If it's going to look cheesy and if it's going to

look terrible, yeah. You know, definitely go with something else. I'm on board. It worked. It worked. Have you guys ever seen the remake of this, the TV miniseries? No. I have, and I actually enjoyed it. And my understanding is it is a lot closer to the book, and they actually do employ

the hedge animals. Is that correct? They do employ the hedge animals. Another big difference is in the book and in the miniseries. He doesn't have an axe when he's going after Wendy. He has a croquet mallet. Oh, that's right. Yeah, that's right.

And Brian, with this, with a croquet mat, well, see, with an axe, if he gets her, it's over, right? Yeah. If he gets her with a croquet mallet, he can get her a few good times, and she can survive that. So, yeah, it's pretty much what you're going to expect. She gets banged up pretty well with a croquet mallet. So he's able to get her with that thing. You know, of course, there's no here Johnny or whatever, but I sort of like the croquet over the axe because. Oh, yeah.

You do have that, oh, he's got her and he's got her again, and then you have that, you know, is she going to survive, isn't she? With the act, you kind of know it's going to be a one and done. Either he's going to get her or she's going to get her. Right? I mean, look, I mean, look what happened when Dick Hall around. One shot and he was gone, you know. I mean, if you would have whacked him over the head of the Crowe Cay Mallet,

then, you know, he could have still been all right, which may have what happened in the book if I don't remember. All right. Well, Brian, any final things you want to mention about this movie or things that struck you about it, that you want to. to talk about before we move on? I actually found something about the Playgirl magazine.

Really? Yeah. There are theories because I guess, let me see real quick. There is an article in that issue about incest, so the most common theory is that Kubrick was implying that Danny has experienced

sexual abuse. Oh, I don't know. And another theory is on the cover. It is advertised that there's an interview called The Selling of Starsky and Hutch's David's Soul. So I guess he said there's a theory that he was foreshadowing. Wow. That's a crazy one.

Yeah, because the article's basically saying there's no reason that their Playgirl magazine should just be sitting there in the lobby. Exactly. That was the one thing that really stuck out for me on that documentary. he's like, why is that there? That just, I don't get it. Yeah. Wow, that's great. I don't know if I agree with the sexual abuse.

I mean, you can even, in the point of the movie where when Jack is talking to Lloyd, you know, talking about he would never hurt Danny. And you can see the sincerity in there. You can see that, you know, he, you know, I guess it really bothered him when he, you know, pulled his arm out of his or dislocated his shoulder. So, and definitely I don't see the mom doing that. You know, there's just nothing there to support that whatsoever. No inclination. So, yeah, I don't think I agree with that at all. Hmm.

Wow. That's, yeah, that's definitely not alluded to in the book at all. I mean, there was the one time. Yeah. And they talked about when he broke the boy's arm, but I think in the book they actually had a, like, didn't they go into a whole chapter where it happened or something or a flashback chapter with a lot more detail in the book? Yeah, I believe.

Yeah, I believe they did. And it was an accident. He didn't do it on purpose. He just got, he lost his temper. Yeah, yeah. And that was what made him quit drinking, remember? Mm-hmm. Yeah.

So they definitely went a lot more into the, uh, the alcoholism aspect in the book. Yeah. You know, you know? You know, but what are you going to do in a two and a half hour movie, you know? I mean, you can't, definitely can't cover as much as you do in a, in a 600-page book for sure. That's true. All right. You guys ready to move on to scores or is there anything else, uh, that, that you guys

wanted to touch on with this one. I think we all, I think we all enjoyed it. Oh, yeah. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. All right. For me, I would go, and I'm going to, without reading the book, well, so if I was to see this movie without reading the book, it's definitely like a maybe an eight or nine on ten. Knowing what I know about the book and how much I love the book, I don't want it to bring it down for me, but I'm still going to hold a strong at an eight. I think I'll hold a strong at a date. I think I'll hold a strong at an eight on ten for this one. It's still a fantastic movie. I love the acting on Jack Nicholson. I especially love the acting on Shelley DeVall. The kid is creepy as shit as well.

You know, Dick Hall around for what it was. You know, he did for what it was and everybody else, you know, just small minor parts. But, I mean, it's a creepy-ass movie and it does its job of what it's supposed to, you know, regardless of how close to sticks to the book or not. So it's strong eight on ten cool

well Philip phoned in or texted in his his score for this and he gives it a nine so philip's giving it a nine on ten for my for my part jay i'm right there with you man i'm also i'm also going to give it an eight on ten and for the same exact reasons and that would be the fact that uh... i just love the book so much that i just

kind of i couldn't i couldn't go any higher than that i've i've seen almost every Kubrick film. There's not a single one of his that I've seen that I didn't like quite a bit, if not love. But I'm looking at his list here. The ones that I would definitely put above this one, Dr. Strangelove,

2001, Space Odyssey, full metal jacket, clocked orange. That's a given. Yeah, then probably the shining, and then after that would be maybe like Spartacus, eyes wide shut, Lolita, that group. And then actually, Pads of Glory,

was really good. Have you guys ever seen that one? No, that one and eyes wide shut are the only two I have yet to see of Kubricks. Yeah, Pads of Glory is a strong anti-war movie, kind of like Dr. Strangelove is, and it's really well done. Kurt Douglas is in it, and it's like a group of soldiers that kind of have to make a hard decision, whether to sell somebody out or not. It's a really great movie.

But, yeah, not my favorite Kubrick. film at all for sure. But still an 8 out of 10, in my opinion, is pretty goddamn good. Oh, that's excellent. That is absolutely excellent. I'm going to go 8 and a half. For me,

this movie gets better every time I watch it. And whoever, I don't even know the Academy's name, but you guys can keep your fucking Razzie nomination because that is the most An outrageous thing I've heard on this show. I can go one worse.

I'm looking at the list. Kubrick was actually also nominated for a Razzie that year for Worst Director. Well, I don't know who's making these nominations because I fully enjoy this movie. I recommend it, and this is an iconic role for Jack Nicholson. The only way that Razzie makes sense if it was somebody who was strongly devoted to the book, that's the only way I can see that. That absolutely makes no sense. That person doesn't know what the hell they're talking about when it comes to movies.

Nope. Must have been a slow year for the Razies that year. Yeah. All right. Well, without any further ado, the moment we've all been waiting for, and that's our featured attraction this week, which is the brand new, the Dark Tower. Lance, before we get into that, just one quick thing,

Did you read the sequel to The Shining? I did. Yeah, Dr. Sleep. Dr. Sleep? How did you like? Absolutely. I really enjoyed it, man. It was a totally different vibe, but obviously it still had Danny in it.

And I think Dick, Dick Halloran was in it at the beginning, right? No. How could have he was. No, he was. I think he was in spirit form. Ah, okay. Yeah. All right.

Fair enough. That's right. He still spoke with him. I got to tell you, man, it was one of the words. worst Stephen King books I've read. It's on the plot of my list. I was so disappointed because I love the Shining so much. I got you. I was so disappointed with Dr. Sleep. Understood. Yeah. I can see I can see that, but no, I actually enjoyed it. I actually got a kick out of it. I like the the gypsy type people and their story and what they did to basically steal souls and

stuff like that. I thought it was an entertaining read, man. I had to kind of keep it separate from the shining, though, for sure. Oh, yeah, yeah, definitely. All right, sorry about that. I just had an interlude to throw that in there. Oh, that's great, dude. We both read a lot of King, so it makes it for a much better show. And speaking of reading a lot of King, Jay, answer me this question. Have you read every single book in the Dark Tower saga? I've read each book five times.

I've listened to the complete audio of each book twice. So I've done the Dark Tower series a total of, I'm sorry, three, times on the book, twice on the audio. I've done the Dark Tower five freaking times. Absolute favorite book series of all time for me. This, the, the Dark Tower, this is my shit. This is it. So I was, so you would think the Dark Tower movie is a big anticipation for me. It is, but it isn't. It's a double-edged sword because I, to me, there is no way it can be put on screen, you know, prior to watching it or anything like that, my conception is there's absolutely no way to put it on screen and do justice.

I disagree. I think it can't. I think justice could be done, but we'll get into that war. Let's do this. Let me knock out the trivia here. And then I think, Brian, would you agree we definitely brought the right guest for this show? Absolutely.

So you're going to, Jay, I think you're probably going to take up about 80. to 90% of the talk on this one, which is cool. Yeah, I may. I've read them all once. Brian, have you read any of the books? No, I haven't. All right. Again, came in this with a different perspective.

All right, cool. That's good. That's good. We're going to get a good, well-rounded group then. So I'm going to run through this super quick, Jay, and I'm just going to let you bust loose, baby. All right. All right.

So, Director of Nicolaise Arsel, also known for a Royal Affair and Island of Lost Souls. writers and this is what I always consider it if you listen to our show before folks Lance will consider it the kiss of death when you have more than two writers and so screenwriters Akiva Goldsmith

Jeff Pinkner Anders Thomas Jensen and of course Nicolage himself Nicholas herself had to get his two cents work then okay already looking bad for me alright here we go so for those of you who don't know the Dark Tower is a series of eight books

which span an entire connected universe, which links several other books and stories by Stephen King, including Bag of Bones, the Talisman, Black House, the Stand. Everything's eventual from a Buick 8, and did you notice the Buick toy in the movie? No, I did not. Okay. Hearts in Atlantis, Insomnia, the Eyes of the Dragon, Salem's Lot,

and minor references to It, the Mist, and the Shining. this is interesting Daniel Craig, Christian Bale, Vigo Mortensen, and Javier Bardem were all considered for the lead role before Idris Elbel was cast. And if

this movie goes on to have more sequels and stories, and that may be a big if, but to me this sounds like perfect casting, Jay. Aaron Paul has been rumored as a possible Eddie Dean. that's i i i can't think of any other once i read that i was like we're done that that's your eddie d

i can't think of anybody else more perfect for eddie dean than erin paul what do you what do you think about this movie man who okay so i'm sitting there watching the previews and the sony emble comes on and then another you know how you have the production movies and the distribution they all have their logos You see a blue turtle with a rose and it says the Tet Corporation. People who read the books, you know what that's going to mean. Brian, you have no idea what that is. You probably think it's another production movie.

So I'm like, this is off to a great start. I'm like, oh, man, they're getting this right. This is it. Tech Corporation. Movie starts off with Jake Chambers and you get into Jake Chambers' life. It goes into Jake. He goes into, you know, he's has. And I'm not going to give away too much.

You know, he's seeing visions of the dark tower. He's seeing visions of the man in black. And, you know, it's kind of driving him a little silly. And, you know, his mother's worried. Teachers are worried and all that stuff. And then you start getting into, then his story starts taking place. He knows he belongs in some or else. He finally sees a revelation of a gun slinger, a man with a gun, who we refers to as a

gun slinger. and he goes and then they go on to their adventures he eventually meets Roland and they finally go on to he's got to get into from one world to the next he does that

and and the adventure just goes on and they do their thing and yeah yeah yeah oh man

let me ask you this I don't really necessarily remember from the books the opening scene with the 1919 and the, you know, the building and the kids and all that, was that all alluded to in the book or was that? Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's in, that is in the last book. It may be in book six, but there's, I mean, there's actually seven books for the Dark Tower. The eighth one came four years.

Was it four years? Maybe four. The wind of the keyhole? Yeah. Think of it as a Rogue One to Star Wars. Think of it like that. It's not part, it's not an actual episode. It's just a side story.

So when you're thinking of the Dark Tower, there's really only seven novels. Now, that place is called El El Segundo, something like that. And yeah, it's mentioned in book six, maybe in book six, but it's definitely prominent in book seven. You're right, that was the first scene,

not Jake Chambers. So yeah, that's in there. So with this movie, it takes bits and pieces from all seven novels and you're like, okay, I'm going to take this and I'm going to take that and I'm going to take this, put it all together. Here's your Dark Tower movie. This is what's happening. I honestly do not remember any scene in this movie that is in the actual book, The Gunslinger. I don't think there's anything in there. Not one thing. Even the emergence of Jake Chambers. How he comes into there is actually not into book three, although Jake Chambers is in book one. So I'm not going to score of that. Go read the book and you'll know what I mean. One thing, when I watch it, I'm halfway through this movie, I'm watching it,

Roland shows up and all this. One thing came to mind when I'm watching this movie, Transformers. What? Yeah, let me get into that. Now, when Transformers came out back in the early 2000s, everybody's excited. We're going to have Transformers. We're going to do this, Optimus Prime, and all that. The movie was all about the boy, about Sam Whitwicky, whatever's name, Shailaboof.

Oh, yeah, a little shy. Okay. With the Transformers being basically glorified props. So the movie, sensual, that movie was so central to that character, Shilabu's character, and that's what this movie was. It was so centralized around Jake. Oh, yes. And I thought the point, I think the kid did a fantastic job as Jake.

You know, Jake starts off as this sort of, you know, sort of weak character. And throughout the books, he finds he grows into himself and he becomes. comes, you know, a gunslinger himself. But for this movie, it, it didn't revolve around the dark tower for the most part. It didn't revolve around Rol. The Rola was sort of a side carrier, almost a kind of a one-dimensional character. I mean, I love Idris Elba. When I found out he was going to be it, I was like, oh, my God, that is the most perfect. I mean, I wanted Eris Abel for Batman. I wanted Ieris Elba for James Bond. When he got this, I was so excited because I think he can do it,

but it just, it's not the rolling, it's not rolling. He is definitely not rolling in this movie, and it is not a rolling movie. It's not a Dark Tower. It's a Jake Chambers surrounding. They took the whole movie, and they surrounded it around him.

And that was the problem I had, because that's not what the whole Dark Tower series is about. You just, I don't get it. Another part of it was The Man in Black. Now, I, and the last podcast I was on with you guys. And we're coming full circle.

The trailers that we watch was the Dark Tower. And I had my rumblings about Matthew McCona key and his character. And for that point, I wasn't down with it. I was like, I don't like the way he's portraying it. I don't like the man. I don't have nothing against Matthew McConaughey at all. It's just the way they were showing his man and black character. And God damn it, I hate being right because they completely missed it.

And I wonder if there's like so many like deleted scenes and reshoots. I heard that there was like $6 million in reshoots and all that. Oh, wow. Because in one scene, you actually get an idea of who the man in black. Okay. Here's the man in black. You guys all watch The Walking Dead, right? Sure.

Yes. Okay. The man in black is basically Negan. That's who he is. He is a sign. Yeah, wearing a smiley face button and a smile. He's got a smile. He's always in a cheery mood.

he's basically the Joker to the Batman. Batman's the serious guy. Joker's kind of like the goofball. He's a maniac but he's always having a good time. That's who the man in black is and that's his counterpart to Roland. Roland is a very serious and I see, you know, here we are,

he is a one-dimensional character mindset but he's completely fleshed out in the books. He has a one-track mind. I need to get to the Dark Tower. That's all that matters. Nobody else matters. Nothing else matters. This is my one-track. mind, although he is fleshed out as a character in the books. Here he's not. In here, the man in black was just as serious as he was. Now, there was a scene, and I'm not going to spoil

what the scene is, but when Jake and Roland go back into his house and there's ashes, and now there's ash on the wall where he created a happy, a happy face, right? And I was here, or whatever it was, that's the man in black. That's that one. That one. Unseen. You're right. That caught it. What was written on the wall. Fucking with it. Was not that character. Was absolutely not a man and black character.

So there was a lot of things that I thought they got wrong on this. Just because, and I try to do what I did with The Shining. I tried to separate the book with a great movie. And unfortunately, guys, I just couldn't do it with this. I'm so connected to the books of the Dark Tower. It's the greatest thing I've ever written. I've ever read. So I hold it too close to heart

to have the character of Roland treated the way he was and the man in black kind of treated the way he was in the movie. More important, Roland. It just, he wasn't there. And I don't mind the Jake aspect of it. I really don't. Now, if this was going to be a multi-series movie, you know, movie two, a movie three, if it revolves around Jake,

I'm okay with that because then you have, you have Roland established, you have Jake established, you have the man in black established. Once you establish all these people, go ahead and have movie two and have movie three focus on this kid, because he is absolutely a key point in the survival of everything that's going on, including the content was the group of folks and all that. They just did it way too early.

It's just like the first movie was about Jake. It's a good thing. It's a very good thing. They did not call this movie, The Dark Tower, the Gunslinger, because it definitely wasn't. Gotcha. Well, we'll get back to that, and we'll definitely do some spoilers toward the end. But, Brian, what were your overall thoughts, having not read any of the books?

Okay. Coming into this movie, seeing the trailers, I was a little hyped on it, and I'm going to say it's mostly because of Idris Alba and his gunslinger character. After watching this movie, those just those scenes. of him actually being the gunslayer are the only things I liked in this movie. Yeah. I had my doubts on Matthew McConaughey coming into this movie. I did not understand fully about the character.

I just went off of the one scene in the trailer when Jake says he's like the devil. And then Roland says, no, he's worse. I don't think he portrayed that in this movie. It was a little too, like he was trying to be smooth and cool, and he just didn't really come off as worse than the devil to me. I mean, there was a couple scenes that I liked with him, but overall, I just, I didn't, I didn't care for his performance. The kid that played Jake, he was fine throughout the movie. Yeah, yeah, I really liked him. I really did.

I thought he was an absolute fantastic Jake. No problems with him there. Yeah, but going through this movie, I had no nothing about it. about the books. So I thought there was going to be some sort of explanation about the Dark Tower, the world. And I felt like everything was just

rushed through. Rest through. It's only an hour and a half, too. It wasn't like a two and a half hour long epic movie, you know? Yeah, definitely. Definitely. I was lost.

I did. That's why Jay, I was banking that you were coming on this show because I know you said you had read the books. You're a fan of the books because I was completely lost in this movie. I wanted to really love this movie just from watching the trailers, just from hearing everybody talk about the books. And I was extremely let down through this movie.

I think spotting the Easter eggs in this movie was the only other best thing about this movie to me. And there was a ton of them. The Shining, the Overlook was in there. It was on, yeah, yeah. So that room, remember what was it? 217 was in there, was it not? Where did they show that? I can't remember where it was.

I remember 1919, and then they had another four-digit number to get back to one place when the guy said memorize this number. Yeah, actually, I got a list here. What kind of, I don't know, maybe we should wait till spoilers, because I got a list of Easter eggs. Yeah, if they could be kind of spoilery, we should wait. Like if it's something later in the movie or if it's just. Yeah. Some of them are, some of them aren't. The one thing, Lance, can we go into what was Rollins? What was his intent? He was after the man in black. And I don't think we're spoiling. What would we give the reason why he's after him? Or do you want to wait till spoilers for that? Why was he really after the man black?

That's pretty early on, but I don't think they got it quite right. I think they kind of lost focus on what his mission really was. Yeah. So in the movie, Brian, his clear intent is he wants to get revenge. He wants to kill the man of. black that's all he wants in the books it's the tower roland has to get to it's always rolling and the dark tower there is nothing in between i don't care who it is his friends his mother his father jake anybody nothing matters except the dark tower now in the first book the man and black is the gateway to the dark tower so that is why he is after the man in black not for revenge for killing his father killing his mother, whatever. I was so angry when that came up.

I was like, yeah. I don't want the dark. So you hell can not Roland not want the dark tower. That's like, I don't get it. That's like Batman not wanting justice. He just wants to go beat up people because he wants, he likes to punch people. No, he wants fucking justice. That's what he wants.

Right. That's, that's your main whole goal of Roland is to get to the tower and this. They fucking, Jake had to convince him to go to the, dark tower and I even call that out in the previews. They kind of even hinted on the previews. And I remember saying that on the last podcast. It was like, it looks like Jake is trying to convince him. And sure, shit, that's what it was.

And he finally convinces him, you know, when he's telling, oh, never mind. All right. We got to wait for some deep water right now. Yeah. Oh, man. I'll tell you what, I liken this movie to what I was kind of afraid it was going to be, especially being rated PG-30. But, oh man, this was just the glorified young adult movie.

It's almost like they were trying to make it for the same group that likes, you know, the Maze Runner and Hunger Games and all that bullshit. You know, you've got the little kid who's like kind of the smart one and the leader of everything. And like you say, Roland is just kind of window dressing. And he's not even after his true, he's not his true nature as he was in the series of the books at all. You said he's like a one-dimensional, like a cardboard cutout, man. He was. I mean, you actually see a scene and it's a flash, granted, it's a flashback scene with his father and you see like fear on his face. He's actually terrified. You and me, you read the book, Rowan, that's not him. He's not terrified. He doesn't care. He doesn't care if he's going to get killed. He doesn't care if anybody around him gets killed. He has a one track mind and he's going to kill and he's going to get where he's going to go. He doesn't fear for anything. He doesn't explain himself. or anything to anybody

only when he absolutely has to. His character was based on the man with no name. Now you guys all seen and that's how Clint is. Yes, sure. That's the question, of course. He doesn't talk. He talks when he absolutely has

to. You know, and it's got rolling so wrong. So wrong, man. So wrong. And Brian, you mentioned when he was on, when he was still the gunslinger and he was killing, that was great. Man, I absolutely loved it.

I was like, okay, this is Roland. Roland shuts his brain off, and he goes into complete instinct killer mode and boom, boom, boom, boom. And he kills. There's a scene in the book, which they kind of, I think they kind of lent this. It's kind of a version of what happened in the movie and what happened in the book where he actually kills everybody in a town. Sure. The whole town is on him. The whole town comes after him, and he kills everybody.

It's just how he is. That part they got right. I still don't have a problem with Iderselba. I don't. You just got to tweak his character. If you're going to have a sequel, and I'm kind of hoping they do to fix this, and then make part two, make part three,

if they're going to do that HBO Showtime series or whatever. I think that was kind of the goal was movie series and bookend it with another movie. That's the only way to really do this. I don't know if they're going to get the chance after this, man. I mean, I guess like to see the weekend numbers, but... I know the series was confirmed. Seriously?

Yeah, and it's supposed to be a gunslinger origin. See, why do we need a fucking origin? Why don't we just go through the books in order? Why don't they just make one fucking good movie for each book? Exactly. You know? I mean, Harry Potter did it. Don't get those folks from Harry Potter.

They know what the fuck they're doing. They took... They absolutely pulled it off. they pull they can but then again the difference between that i think the dark tower wise a little bit more fearful of of making a movie of the dark tower and it being good is there's just so much there's it's it's connected into so many things and it goes off in so many directions each book each book isn't generally its own standalone story that can connect you know like the harry potter books where you can take the first book and make it into a movie and and have your and you know okay

part two's coming okay part three's coming it's very very very very very very very very very it's very hard to do that with movies in the Dark Tower. So when they set a series, a series book in it by movies, yeah, I'm on board with that. But if you're just going to make a couple of movies, you can't do it. It can't be done and done right. Sure. It's just, it's not going to work. Yeah, I don't really have anything else to say except for spoilers at this point, you know? Yeah, same here. Same here. Brian? No, I'm ready for spoilers. All right, Jay. Where do you put it, man? You know, we go on a 1 through 10 rating here, so speak from the heart.

I'm going to kill with my heart. That's what I'm going to, which is one of the lines. You want me to do that? I'm going to kill this movie. I can't give it a four on ten. I just can't because I loved Jake Chambers. That was the best part of the movie for me.

Character-wise, okay, we're talking character-wise. They nailed Jake Chambers. He was spot on. when Roland was on was in kill mode he was spot on absolute perfection on that i mean those alone and with i think the hope of it continuing and probably fixing the things in there is what's going to allow me to give it a five on ten it's just the story was all over the place unless you know the books in and out have the shit that happens you have no idea what's going on the dixie pig a mass. You're like, what the hell is the next you did it? Yeah, exactly. That wasn't the, that wasn't the same

role that it had in the book, man. Oh, it was completely different. And it was at the scale end. It was the very end. And they, able to switch from one world to the next way too easy. It's like, oh, yeah, that door's over on this. Let's just walk through that door. Why isn't the hell everybody doing this shit? They just went back and forth way too easy. They got rolling completely wrong. They focused too much on Jay. They got the man in black completely wrong. They were actually

attacking the tower, and they're not supposed to attack the tower. They're supposed to attack the beams that hold up the tower. You know? Not the tower itself. Sure. Yeah, not the tower itself. And I don't know. You're not even supposed to see the tower until the end. That's the whole point. And you're not spoiling anything

because this all happens in the first two minutes of the movie literally. Yeah, it does. Yeah, it's a very. And that's a And that's a crime too. Yeah, it is. You just jump right to the end and the beginning and just five on ten. Oh, okay, five on ten. What about you, Brian?

Oh, I'm completely disappointed with this movie. I'm going to give it a three. I'm really trying to rack my brain. There's so many things I just, I don't know what was going on in this movie. Okay. That's good to know, right, Jay? Yeah, and you know what, and I think that's what helps, like Lance and myself, Brian, is we do have an idea of what's going on. So that allows us to recognize things that are happening.

It's allowed us to say, okay, I know what that is. I know what that's supposed to be. Yeah, like, they're talking about beamquakes and there's two-skinned people. I'm like, who are these people? Who's Jackie Earl Haley's character? Who is this guy? But, like you said, that's what I'm saying. there's pieces missing from this movie because a beam quake.

Okay, so, you know, in the very opening shot, when they get all these kids and they're using their mind powers and this laser goes right into the tower, correct? Well, there's these beams. You know, when he draws the circle, he puts the tower in the middle and he draws like the spinning wheel. Sure. Those are the beams that are actually holding up the tower. Think of it as like the force from Star Wars. It's basically like these beams that are made of the force and they're holding. Now, these kids are using that mind power that you saw to take.

kill the beam and once they kill a beam, that's when you get a beam quake and the earth shakes and all that. So that makes sense. And the tower starts to fall down. But yeah, they don't, and there's like the beams are named after different animals, like the beam of the turtle and the beam of the bear and stuff like that. Yeah, the lion, the fish, the rat, the bat, the bad, all kinds of stuff. Yeah, so it kind of ties in with, um, uh, I don't know, like zodiac or something a little bit. Yeah, yeah, something like that. to that more. All right.

So, Brian, you give it a three, huh? Yes, sir. Pretty brutal. Pretty brutal.

Well, Philip phoned in a 5.5. Oh, wow. You know what, Brian, I'm right there with you, man. Three is what I'm giving it as well.

I don't think it's going to be bottom five of the year, but it may be an honorable mention. So anyway, there you go, folks. So, you know,

if you haven't seen it yet, after all this you may not but in any case, as always we're going to go into spoilers. So, all right, Jay, this is where you cut loose, man. This is a motherfucking spoiler alert. You've been fucking warned.

This is a motherfucking spoiler alert. You've been fucking warned. This is a motherfucking spoiler alert. You've been fucking warned. All righty. Jay, can I ask you a quick question? I was waiting for spoilers. was the gunslinger and the man in black friends previously or something?

No. Because he kept referring to him as Walter. Well, they knew each other. Okay. That's a complicated story. He's a wizard that used to work for his father. Are we in spoilers? Oh, we're totally in spoilers.

Okay. We're balls deep in spoilers. He was a wizard that used to work for his father. And now, Roland. like he said, remember he said his magic doesn't work on him because Roland always had a seat to this thing. So he never really liked this guy. He had everybody fooled and all that. And he knew him as Walter before he actually, he knew him as Martin, Martin Broadcloak.

And then there was a wizard. Like I said, it's confusing as shit. It turns out Walter. So Randall Flagg from the stand, this is him. It's the same guy. Oh. Yes. You remember how he was?

Remember how he's kind of goofy? He's kind of silly. He had fun. a Negan character or like, what's his name, Al Pacino. He was more chaotic than anything. Yes, yes, he's more chaotic. So it's the same except guy. He just goes from world to world and this is what he does.

So he knew him from his past. It was actually Walter that forced Roland to become a gunslinger because he became on way too early at 14. He was screwing his mom and he caught that. So he went to go become a gunslinger so he can kill him. Okay. Yeah, and he found out that it was, so the war that happened, Walter was the, basically he was the knoll on the gunslinger's side, and it was, he was the little finger. He's the one that got all this shit.

It fucked everything up for everybody. That's who he was. Okay, because they had a scene where Matthew McCona, hey, refers to him as an old friend. Yes. And I'm like, what is going on? Yeah, now what? but but they weren't friends it was more of an old friend i keep referring to batman and like how the joker would call the batman and okay they've been fighting for so many these guys

are like hundreds and thousands of years old okay if you follow the book that way and time is funny as it always says but that's what that is um dang it i just closed my book on my notes okay so now there's rumored that this is a sequel to the books and there was actually one clue in there that would tell you that it is. And Lance, did you notice it? Well, no. I mean, the only thing I remember about the books is that he finally reached his destination. I get, like we said, we're spoiling big time here, folks.

So if you haven't read all the books, don't listen to this. But at the very, very end, he came to find out everything's just an endless circle. And he got to the end of his quest, and he opened the book, and boom, the man in black pursued, or the, the gunslinger pursued the man in black across the desert. And guess what it all starts over again? He's done it a hundred times. He's done it a thousand times. He's done the same story.

Now, at the end of the book, there was one thing that did change. So when he was a kid and during the war, him and his other two buddies were fighting, well, his friend had the horn of L, what they called the horn of L with him. And it was, Roland didn't pick it up when it fell. It was, you know, it's this treasured emblem. It's like, remember all the old, the old, the role. Romans, when they had like their eagle, their staffed, it was just, you know, the symbol for them and it was their honored relic, whatever. Well, Roland didn't pick it up. He left it behind and that

was something and he always regretted. So at the end of the book, when the dark tower ends and you find out it's a circle, you found out in this loop around, this final one, he did pick up the horn with them and take it with him. So in this book, you actually see the horn in his backpack. So that kind of, So people who read the book and all that, that's the hint to them that, yeah, this is probably another turn to go and do the whole cycle thing over again. Which I'm fine with if it would have been, you know, even though it's a little different from the books because this would have been like the sequel, the part that really got me is he still should have been after the tower, not the men in black. That's kind of still the fault point for me. Big sticking point. Yeah, that's what it was.

I would have been fine with differences because I knew it was a sequel as soon as I saw that horn. Yeah, the biggest problem I had with this was that my two favorite characters from the books weren't even in this, and that would be Eddie and Susanna. Exactly. Jake didn't even show up until, well, this version of Jake didn't even show up. He was the last person to join the group. Yeah, he was the third drawn, right? Yeah, actually. Susanna came through the Dixie Pig to get to the world, right? No, no, no. That's book six. That's book six. All right. Yeah. No, Susanna was, so the drawing of the three. She kicked her out of 1970s, New York or something, right?

60s. Okay, that's right. Yeah, she's from the 60s, he's from the 70s, and Jake's from the 80s. Got it. And when was Eddie from? Yeah. Modern Day or? No, Eddie is like mid-80s, 84, 83, something like that.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and he's just, Brian, just so you know, when he's pulled, he's an incredible junkie. And Suzanne is like a split personality who also happens to be. be a compulsive shoplifter that's in a wheelchair. It's just basically the most fucked up people you could pick. Yeah, so she's a, so one, so she's rich, right, but she has no legs. She has nothing from the knees down, so she's in a wheelchair.

And one half of her is just kind of a mild-mannered, you know, rich, you know, grew up with money because her father made the money. And the other half of her is just kind of a sort of like a Black Panther, civil rights type. Yeah, very militant, very, very militant like that. And so that's, and actually, that's the third one, I believe, because Jake isn't in the drawing of the three. He doesn't show up to the wastelands.

Okay, I don't know why I thought he drew those two, and then Jake is the third one. Well, Jake is the third one, but in the drawing of the three, he's not brought in. it's Eddie it's now you can say Suzanne is the second and third because there was two of her there was two personalities but but the third person because Roland doesn't physically go into our world he actually there's there's like these these magic doors once he goes in he goes into the body so his mind goes into the body and takes over the other person so he took over

Eddie he took over Susanna and then he took over this guy named Joe Mort So how... That's right. That's right. Jake comes into Roland's world by being killed in our world, in Keystone Earth. And Joe Mort is a guy who pushes Jake in front of a car, and Jake ran over and dies and ends up in our world. So that's... And then, you know, then he dies in Roland's world.

But in the drawing of the three, Roland kills Joe. before he can push Jake. So now Jake is alive again. So it creates a different timeline. Kind of a paradox. It is. It is. Yeah.

And there's a couple of things in here, hints in the movie that makes me believe there may not be no sequences like Charlie the Choochoochoo. Remember when he said there's amusement part? You can see Charlie the Choochoochoo was in there. When he was watching, Roland was watching TV and he saw the talking raccoons. That's OI. Right.

You know, I was like, okay. There's your version of Oi. There's Charlie. choo-two, so you're probably not going to get blamed the mono, you're not going to get oil. So it's just those, yeah, those are the... And they crossed the world so freaking

easy. I mean, they actually struggled to get Jake out of there. I mean, it was a fight. Remember, Susanna had to have sex with a demon to keep him occupied, just so Jake and Roland can create what they had to, just to pull Jake

out. It wasn't like, oh, beep, beep, beep, put in your coat and go. It was like, oh, it. Okay, it's down this street. Okay, let's go there and then beep, beep, beep, and they're gone. Right. It's not that easy to cross worlds. And they just make it way too easy. He did have to contend with like a lumber demon there in the house there, you know? Yeah, yeah. And that's actually in the book. That's straight from the book, which is great. But again, it's not until book three when that happens. But yeah, and but he doesn't kill the demon.

Remember, they have to fight to get him out. And he just says, okay, go away. And it goes away. I'm like, really? That's all he had to do? Why did he just do that with everybody? I was confused with that. Yeah. That was dumb. Right.

I might change my score to it too now because everything you're saying that is in the book sounds like it would be an amazing movie or amazing series of movies. Yeah, it would be. Especially when they get on to Blaine the train, right? Oh, Blaine's great. Yeah, that's some of the best parts of the book. for me and then going across the wastelands like they had to. They did make a reference when he was checked

into the hospital that, well, you're suffering from hepatitis, A, B, and E, and you also have radiation poisoning. Yeah, so there it is. So now there's your, there's the wastelands, you know, so you probably won't see that because that was referenced right there. Yeah. They did reference

to cram a little bit of everything into it, man. They did, they did. So terrible. And you're never going to get it. Yeah. In the sequel or whatever. But you know what's a good thing? I want to bring up that we picked a Stephen King movie. Initially, everybody was like, yeah, the Shining has nothing to do with the Dark Tower. Well, guess what?

They called it The Shine. Oh, yeah. They were all about the Shine. They were like, oh, he's got the shine. He can do this, which is exactly the same thing that Danny and Dick Holleran had. So by, you know, wasn't that? Strange coincidence. That is a strange coincidence

How the Shining got pulled in And that's basically Was the power of Jake Was the shine Right So we didn't think he has in the book Maybe to go with it after all Yeah yeah perfect

All right Yeah there was the two twin girls In the beginning Did you guys catch them? No I didn't catch that Yeah there's two twin girls And they say come play with us No

What? What? What part was that? I think it was early When the group of kids was being gathered in the beginning. Wow. Yeah, which that's why I wanted. Yeah, I wanted to wait to talk about the Easter A's.

Because it's kind of fun noticing them on your own. Oh, yeah, give us all the Easter eggs, man. Okay, real quick, there was a sign in the amusement park that said Pennywise, the dancing clown. Okay, I missed that. Jay, you mentioned the... I saw a clown statue holding balloons or something, though. Yeah. Jay, you mentioned the...

picture of the Overlook Hotel. Let's see. There was a poster on the door of Rita Hayworth, which was the poster Tim Robbins used in the Shawshank Redemption. Yeah. Mother and son walking St. Bernard down the street. Oh, Cujo. Oh, I missed that.

There was a toy, 1958 Plymouth Fury in Jigs Room. Right. And let's see. Oh, was that supposed to be Chris? Christine then? See, I thought that was the from a Buick 8 car. No, that was

Christine. Okay. There was a... It was an older one, I think. Yeah, there was a Misery's Child Book from Misery in there. And the number you guys were thinking of over the portal was 1408. I just remember why you were talking.

Yeah, I was going to mention it when you were done. It was 1408 was another book, a short story by Stephen King. Yes. The John Cusack movie. Oh, yeah, John Cusack and was it Sam Jackson? Yes. Yes.

Yes. Okay. Yeah, that's what it was. I'm, you know what? I'm reading a Stephen King book, the end of watch. Oh, okay. Yeah. And it's that, that's where, and they, they, and the, the main antagonist is kept in room 217.

That's where I got 217. Oh, okay. Yeah. And the last one I found online was the attack dog sign, attack dog keep out. They're saying it's supposed to be a reference to stand by me. Really? Okay. That's a stretch.

Yeah. So, yeah, those were the ones. Some of them I've seen, but most of them I had to look online because I was real curious. Yeah. Interesting. Okay. Oh, man. I don't know.

Last thoughts just, yeah, they, he was wrong. They completely did rolling wrong, different character. Continuation or not, which I think it's kind of dumb to throw that out there because it really spoils the book for everybody. You know, for the moment, I do really lot of Stephen King, and for a good chunk of him, I really don't like his endings. A lot of them are anti-climatic.

Dr. Sleep being one of them, but the Dark Tower is probably one of the best endings of all time. Oh, yes. We were to spoil it. Any better, man. Where he goes and he's like, you're repeating to do this all the time. You're going to kill your friends. You're going to kill your family. You're going to make the choices. You're going to do it over and over

and over. And that's, and that's hell. In here, there's like, okay, yep, that's what happened and we're just going to, you know, we're going to just repeat what we did in the first. And that means anybody who hasn't read the books is kind of like, eh. And Brian, I'm sorry if we spoiled it for you. I mean, it really is definitely a good book to go read a set of books. If you really want a good, long, you know, convoluted in a good way. It's just there's so much the Dark Tower reaches out to almost every single book that Stephen King has. I mean, this would, be the cornerstone.

This is basically the dark tower where they say that's the nexus of everything. That's the center. That's kind of a metaphor for the books. It is. It's the really, it's the centerpiece. And every book, it reaches out and it touches pretty much everything that Stephen King's done.

Oh, it's fine. If anything, you guys made me want to go read the books now. Here's another. A little spoiler, a little spoiler, but I've got to say it because I thought it was so humorous the way they did it.

But there's even a, I think the second to last book, they actually go back and meet a young Stephen King. I was just going to bring that up. He's a major character in the books. He is an absolute major character in the books. Stephen King himself. And very humorous, very self-deprecating how he portrayed himself, wouldn't you say?

Oh, yeah. Yeah, definitely, definitely, definitely. Yeah, definitely watch. Definitely good read. Cool, cool. All right, so I think the consensus, folks, read the books. Don't see the movie. Yes.

safe to say, go do that. Or if you don't want to, if you want to like this movie, don't read the books. Enjoy the movie for what it is. Stay away from the books and you're going to be all right. Unless you're Brian. Unless you're Brian. All right. Well, fuck, dude.

I think the, the acid test here is that Philip only gave it a 5.5. Mr. I love everything. Barely above the water line. Barely. So, Jay, you got anything coming up or anything you want to plug that's going on? No, no. You know, me, I live a simple life. I love listening to your guys' podcast.

I love being on. I love talking to shop with you guys. You guys have turned me on to a lot more horror movies that I'm generally not accustomed to, so that that's good. The only other, if you guys want me to plug other, you know, podcasts or anything like that, It's always Danny Louie after midnight in the benchcast, which we all listen to. Oh, yeah. And then Lance had turned me on to Mission Log, the Star Trek podcast, which I really, really enjoy it. And I'm finally caught up on.

Other than that, that's pretty much it. All right, cool, man. Well, we appreciate you being on. It's always fun. And we'll look forward to the next time you can swing by, man. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for having me.

I'm glad you allowed me to do the Dark Tower. You know, as soon as that movie was coming out, Lance, I was like, I was itching. I was like, I've got to talk about this. I got to do this. Oh, yeah. All right, well, folks, as always, we want to thank you guys for listening to another episode of the horror returns. We would love to hear your feedback and ideas. And, of course, you can always reach us at the horror returns at gmail.com.

Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Podbean, you know, just do a Google search for the horror returns, and you will find us. Look for us on iTunes. If you like what you hear, we would just ask that you guys please rate us and review us. Next week, we're going to continue with horror again. Wow, what a shocker. The horror returns, and we're actually getting into horror movies again. Two weeks in a row. Two weeks in a row.

We will be doing Annabelle Creation as well as 1978's Magic starring Anthony Hopkins. And we should be having a very special guest on Santos Ellen Jr. from the, from horror news radio. We're looking forward to having him on because we know how much he loves dolls. So, until the horror returns again, do not!