The Horror Returns - THR - Ep. #74: Saw (2004) & Jigsaw (2017) (Re-upload)

Episode Date: April 9, 2022

This week, we saw away. The newest movie in the franchise - and the one that started it all! Thanks for listening! The Horror Returns Website: https://thehorrorreturns.com THR Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thehorrorreturns THR Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thehorrorreturns/ Join THR Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1056143707851246 THR Twitter: https://twitter.com/horror_returns?s=21&t=XKcrrOBZ7mzjwJY0ZJWrGA THR Instagram: https://instagram.com/thehorrorreturns?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y= SK8ER Nez Podcast Network https://www.podbean.com/pu/pbblog-p3n57-c4166 ESP Anchor Feed: https://anchor.fm/mac-nez E Society YouTube Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UCliC6x_a7p3kTV_0LC4S10A

Victims, for those of you who delight and dread, who fantasize about fear, who glorify goal, welcome. You have found the place where the whole returns. Listeners beware. This podcast contains major plot spoilers in the foulest of language. Join us in celebrating the old and the new, the best, and the worst in horror. All of you who delight in dread fantasize about fear and glorify gore, welcome home. This is the podcast. Every week proves the horror never ends.

And each episode we seek out and we review a brand new horror movie. And then we go back and find a classic work with similar themes. We do include spoilers for the new film. However, we always wait until the very end of the show to spoil the new feature, and we will let you know before we do so with a spoiler alert. If you don't want to hear the spoilers, if you haven't checked out the movie yet,

just turn us off at that point. Promise you won't miss the thing. You can pick it up later. We generally assume that if you're listening, then you've probably already seen the classic film, especially this one. I think this one was real big in the theaters. And then it's been very, very big every year.

I think, what, through eight sequels or seven sequels before they took the 10-year break? Is that about right, Brian? Yeah. Seven, I believe. Yeah? Well, when you got a horse, why not kick it to death? Well, we'll definitely spoil anything that's been out for at least a year. And from time to time, we are going to use some four-letter words.

That's why we have a little E on the podcast. podcast when you pull it up, guys. So, uh, you know, expect us to be R-rated. Uh, I'm Lance and with me as always are my co-host, uh, Philip and Brian. How's it going, guys? It's going good. I'm back, bitches. Yeah. Oh, that's right. You were out there for a week, man. Yeah, man. Great podcast, though, guys. I listen to it. Um, thanks, dude. Appreciate it, man. Um, we tried, you know. Um, well, hey, man, since you're the one who was out, you've probably got, what, too cool of the week, right? One for each

week or where you do too much moving? While on a search for kids' movies for our Halloween episode, I came across Little Monsters on Netflix. You guys ever seen that? Awesome. It's classic. Fred Savage, man.

See, people used to make fun of me when I was a kid because I looked just like him. Ah, okay. And so, I don't know, I always love that movie. I never even realized that it was Harry Mandel. Totally overacted, and he's definitely summoning some beetle juice in there. But it was good. It was fun to watch.

Summning beetle juice or Drop Dead Fred, right? Yeah, that and an awful lot of cocaine, I imagine. But yeah, I did that, and I watched the first episode of The Walking Dead. I can't believe we haven't talked about it yet. Yeah, there you go. Yeah, it was, it was okay. We're kind of getting somewhere. We'll see.

I was very happy with it. I was, have you checked it out, Brian? Not yet. I've been hearing a lot of mixed reviews. Yeah, same here. Nothing super special, but nothing to get upset about either. All right. Brian, what about you, man?

I got three quick little things. first, I got to do a couple of the 31 days of horror episodes with the League of Geeks. Nice. Kind of last minute, they needed somebody, and I did The Lost Boys and the Burbs. Oh, nice. Yeah, you got a lot of feedback on the page about that one, man. Yeah, so I know the Lost Boys episode is out right now, and the Burbs will be out here soon. They're just quick little 20, 30 minute little episode.

So definitely those guys, those guys are awesome. Steve especially, that's the episode I did with. And we are planning a League of Geeks Horror Returns crossover episode here coming soon. Awesome. Everybody would be looking for that. And then a couple days later, I was on the McNez podcast. Oh, that one heard. Yeah, we talked a little, yeah, season of the witch, which is an awesome movie.

Absolutely, man. My favorite of the entire franchise. Yeah. Really? Yep. So definitely those episodes are out right now. So it was a lot of fun with those guys. Everybody already knows Kevin.

Kevin's awesome. I had a lot of fun. And my last thing real quick is I started the audiobook for It. Ah, okay, cool. That's a good idea. This move, I'm only like probably an hour into it and it's already pretty explicit, pretty graphic. Yes. I'm actually enjoying it a lot.

It's very, just listening to it, I'm envisioning everything they're saying. And definitely, so far where I'm in the book, a lot of this shit couldn't have been in the movie. Because it is pretty crazy. So definitely rated very high. So if anybody hasn't read or listened to the book, I totally recommend it. That is me. I'm going to have to do that. Mm-hmm.

I'm rereading it as we speak. Yeah. And next week I'll have a little update on, what is it, the Dark Tower, which past guests, Jay provided for me. So I'll have a little update on that. Appreciate it, Jay. so far just a little bit I've listening to it makes me hate the movie even more because that that movie should have been

like at least three movie epic trilogy so for sure have a little bit more on that next week yeah makes sense man yeah it's before I get into the cool of the week I have a little announcement to make

we are going to be attending the we just got our got a proof for our press passes yesterday. Got an email so we will be attending the Wizard World Convention in Austin. Phil, what have we got? I think we're going on Sunday

the 19th, right? I believe that's the plan. Awesome. All right, so if you guys are anywhere near Austin, Texas, are you going to be going to Wizard World? Look us up. We'll be there. I'm sure we'll have some stuff to bring with us to give out. And we'll try to

We're going to try to set up a few interviews, so hopefully we can talk to a couple of people and bring you guys more of that kind of stuff. So stay tuned for that. My cool of the week, hands down, no doubt about it. Fucking amazing. I'm only three episodes in, but Stranger Things, too. Yeah, nice. Really good. I didn't want to bring nothing up until I was done, but I'm about like three or four in.

Yeah, I'm not. Pretty awesome? I'm not, oh, dude, better than the first season. And it's so cool because they kept all the same talent. They were able to get everybody to come back, and they've got a couple of really great additions to the cast as well. And some things I wasn't expecting, Brian, like there were some new characters that showed up

that I think are really going to add a lot to the story. Yes. So far, everything I'm seeing, I have no problems with this show, not one bit. It's a lot of fun. There's nothing anachronistic in it, man. I would say whoever, these Duffer Brothers that do this show, I just hope they have a very, very long career because it's literally like you've stepped out of 2017 and into 1984 literally. It's like every single thing about the TV show reminds me of when I was when I was in that period, you know?

I mean, they just do a bang-up job. And, yeah, it's like they've got the perfect cast. Wouldn't you guys agree? Absolutely. And the one thing I would say, if they're going to continue, like, a couple more season with these kids, they have to keep filming. Because you do notice that the kids are slightly older. Yes. The voice is a little bit deeper.

Yeah. So, yeah, but it's great, definitely. And everybody out there, please stop with the spoilers on social media. Oh, yeah. Come on. Get a lie. Is there a bunch of them? There's a few.

I had a time for you. I had to go to work so I couldn't start when it came out at midnight. And I went to check my Facebook and like the first like five things that popped up with stranger things. And I had to like just turn it off real quick. So there's a little. Or, like, legit plot points? Well, it's just kind of like bringing up characters. Like, why did you do that?

And, you know, I just kind of want to, I just kind of want to be surprised. I don't want to be expecting this character to do something. Just wanted to happen. Yeah. Couldn't agree more, man. All right. Well, with that being said, Brian, you got some news for us, man? Let's see.

I'm going to do my weekly box office. update Geostorm open with a disappointing 13.7 million. What? With also a 9.7 overseas with the opening weekend total of 23.4 million. That's all overseas. Are you serious? Jillian to make, I'm sure. Yeah, I believe it was, I couldn't.

I didn't get that part in my notes. leave it was like $120 million. Holy shit. Oh, wow. So, very weak, very weak opening weekend. Hmm. I'm going to start off with a little comic book movie news. Are you guys familiar with Shazam?

Zazam. I can't believe what you're about to say. Yeah, this is, this is like the weirdest, weirdest casting news. I've only seen this guy in a couple things, but Zachary Levi has been casted as Shazam. Okay, Philip, do you know who this guy is? Zachary Levi, sounds familiar. You've got to look him up on IMDV.

Have you guys ever seen a... I heard of a TV show called Chuck? Oh. Yeah, okay. Yeah, I'm confused. This guy is supposed to be Henry Cavill's, like, equal and fighting characters like his main villain

is Black Adam who is going to be played by the Rock. Yeah, that would be like the world's shortest fight, I think. Yeah, I mean, the movie does not, the movie is due to come out in 2019.

He is going to have to hit the gym until then. He does not, I mean, Henry Cavill is a big guy. And he, he, he looks.

small compared to the rock. So I just can't imagine. Small compared to the rock. There's nothing he can do. It's going to be a big threat. So this casting was just kind of out of nowhere. It kind of took away the interest for me. When I heard David F.

Sandberg, who did Lights Out and Annabelle creation, I was a little intrigued. But I don't know where this casting came from. It just kind of threw me for a loop there. But I don't know. I guess we'll see.

Guess we're going to find out, man. This next bit of news, Lance, this should make you happy. It should make up for Shazam. The sequel to 47 meters down is going to be called 48 meters down. What? Yes. Why is there a sequel? You're kidding me, or are you serious?

So they are going to extra meter for this one. Now, wait a minute. Is this from the asylum? That has to be Jagaline on the movie That's great This is This is actually a real thing

It is a direct sequel So No No Is it going to be the same The same actors? Oh my gosh I hope not

Holy shit How stupid could they be to get To be getting that same fucking boat In that same fucking case Yeah If Matthew Modine is still the guy that's the captain.

I don't know. Okay. Fet Averrez, he's the one that's rebooting the girl with the tag, Dragon Tattoo franchise with the movie called The Girl in the Spider's Web. He's

casted Sylvia Hokes, and if people don't know her, she played the Android Love and Blade Runner of 2049. Oh, yeah. Oh, yes. I like her.

Yep. So she will be in the movie along with the actress that I totally forgot her name right now that is playing the lead character. Okay. Look on her past episodes for that because that was on there. You got me interested. Yeah, I thought she was great, you know, for the character she played. Yeah. So I thought it's good casting.

I like her. Mm-hmm. Uh, any, uh, any of you guys fans of the old video game Contra? Absolutely. Oh, yeah. Yeah, who didn't love that, man? Uh, Konami that made Contra is making a live action TV series. TV series?

Of Contra? Yeah. She like a double dragon. Come on. That'd be awesome. And, uh, I have a little giveaway here. I have, let's see. I don't even know where I put it now.

Damn it. Oh, here it is. Is it all the graphic band, street fighter paraphernalia? I wish. I would have kept that for myself. Recently, just came out on Blu-ray

is a movie directed by Freddie Kruger, Robert England himself. 9-67 Evil. Yes. I don't know if you guys are, yes. That recently just came out on Blu-ray, and I have a I will give away to the first person that emails us the code for Contra for Extra Life.

Oh, classic. Nice, nice. That's good. That's good idea. So email us at the horror returns at gmail.com and the first person that gets it in will get this Blu-ray copy. Fantastic. Yeah, I love that movie, man. Yeah, it's a classic.

Cheasy fun. Let's see. More TV news. Clive Barker is working on a nightbreed TV series. That could work out. Yes. And possibly a Dead Ringers TV series with David Cronenberg's support. What?

Yes. But they were twins and like, didn't they both die or something? I don't know. I don't remember the film that well. And I'm like, how are they going to pull that off? Um, I think, uh, Dead Bringers is, is, is in talks right now. So that's not really, besides the talks, it's not really a thing. So, but I know he's really pushing this night breed TV series, which I think I always, I always love the movie.

Me too. It's almost like, uh, kind of X-Menish, but, you know, with monsters. Mm-hmm. So I, I really would like to see, like, more in that world. And I think it could be really cool. Uh, Phil, you see that? series. They can,

yeah, it's been a long time. But I mean, with the TV series, I feel like they can do like a slow burn kind of thing and make it work a lot better

than they would in a movie. So I'm all for the whole horror moving to TV thing. Mm-hmm. I like it. I think that's a great idea. That seems like the perfect, the perfect short story.

Actually, I think he wrote two or three short stories about Midian, or novellas or whatever. I think that was just one of them. Yeah. I believe that, if I'm not mistaken, our friends over at Helming Power Hour did that, what, maybe four or five months ago, I think they did Nightbreed. And they were talking about how it would have made a great TV series because there's so many stories, you know, that could be told.

So didn't they do, spot on? Didn't they do a book where they crossed over with a hellraiser? I'm pretty sure they did, man. I'm pretty sure they did. I've read, I've read a number of his, uh, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, he do a book. short stories and his books. And I don't remember that specifically, but those two universes seem like they'd go together really

well, you know? Cool. Okay. On to a little bit of not really news, but I just kind of wanted to see what you guys thought about this. Dan Ackroyd, he wants to do a kid's Ghostbuster-style Netflix show. Okay. I'm not mad at it. I mean, I remember

watching the Ghostbusters cartoon. Yeah. I think he wanted to do like a live action. Like, with kids. Oh, with the kids. Okay. Yeah. So.

All right. Well. Yeah, I just kind of want to see what you guys thought because, you know, right now it kind of seems like Netflix is buying up every TV show movie idea. Mm-hmm. So I can kind of see this one working. And I think he would be more hands-on with it, you know, because there was a lot of things he wanted to do with the, with the, with the, with the, with the, with the, with the, with the, with the, with the, with the. new Ghostbusters movie and I don't think exactly the

last one that came out is what he wanted to do. Okay, makes sense. So, yeah, more on that when it comes out and our last bit of news might kind of be sad to fans of the movie.

Fans of what we do in the shadows. Great movie. Tycho Watiti, the director, also Director of next week's Thor says the sequel Weirwolves is not happening anytime soon. Hmm. Okay.

Nothing has even been written. Gotcha. That's cool, man. I mean, really, you know, I wouldn't be too mad if they even just left that alone. Yeah. I mean, I kind of look at that movie, the way I look at Spinal Tap, the movie this is Spinal Tap. It's kind of like each one of them is perfect as a standalone entity. I don't really think they need, they need sequels.

So I'm cool with that. And it's to be expected. I mean, when you get your next movie to direct and it's Thor, not only Thor, but you got the Hulk and you got everybody showing up in it. It's going to take a lot of your time. Yeah. And Thor, every trailer I've seen looks fantastic. So, this guy's going to get a lot more work.

So. It's more like a comedy, but yeah, I'm excited about it. Lance, I'm right there with you. If this was like left alone as its own thing, I would be fine with it because it's great on its own. Sure. Yeah, me too. And that is the news. All right.

Then, boys, let's take our little trip. Brian, what's our first new trailer to talk about this week? First one we're going to talk about is Angelica. starring Jenna Malone, Janet McTeer, and Ed Stopper, directed by Mitchell Lichtenstein. The only thing I know he's done, he did that movie, Teeth. Oh, that was actually pretty good. Yeah. Before we get into the review of this trailer, I just realized, I guess this movie came out overseas in 2015.

Oh. I don't even know if it's even available over here now. But what did you guys think of the trailer? I can probably do without it. Yeah, I wasn't exactly blowing away. Like a period piece. At first, I started turning it on and I was like, what the fuck am I watching? Yeah.

Yeah, I wasn't sure what was happening. It could be a good, it could be a good net. Netflix midnight show. Yeah. There's a lot of things that Jenna Malones popped up in that I'm not too big of a fan of hers. Mm-hmm. And was that El... Was that Melisandra from Game of Thrones in the trailer?

Was it? I don't know. I mean, I don't want to watch the trailer again, but I was just asking. well that would give you it right there if you don't even want to watch the trailer again this won't be one of our uh one of our films yeah so again the movie came out like three two three years ago that tells you probably everything you need to know yeah i don't know why the trail is being released now or if it's even out so

if any just look any of our pages and I'll keep everybody updated if anybody wants to watch it so I'm just got to go ahead and move on

to the next trailer which is the second trailer for Bright the new Netflix show or movie starring Will Smith Joel Edgerton

New Meber Pace Jay Hernandez and Edgar Ramirez directed by David Ayer also written by Maxill Hold on

I wrote down some movies that David Ayer has done and hear me out. I love a lot of his stuff. Yeah. This is why I think this movie's going to be good because when I watch it, I kind of get a training day type vibe. Oh, for sure. Yeah. And movies he's done that are in that kind of realm of movies is end of watch,

Street Kings, and Harsh Times. Yeah, and those were all three great movies. Yeah. And he's also done Fury, which I love Fury. Yeah, that was pretty good. Not bad. so and this is written by max landis who who did chronicle and other movies i jotted down he did uh he written he's wrote uh dirk gently the tv show oh yeah i've heard a lot about that you've told me a lot about

that yeah american ultra and uh philip a movie you brought up like a while ago uh mr wright with uh sam royd yeah yeah he's written that so hmm it was it was it was kind of quirky cool, man. This thing might be okay. It just, it looks super fucking weird. It's kind of an obscure idea to bring out there. But, uh,

you know, I'll give them some points for originality. Yeah. And I think it's got a great cast. Yeah. I mean, so. How, how, how bad can it be with Will Smith? Yeah.

I feel like they're trying to push. It's not, it's not PG, Will Smith. many F bombs he dropped in the trailer. Oh, yeah, they made that quite clear, didn't they? And if you wouldn't have told me that was Joel Edgerton, I would not even thought it was. He plays his partner, the orc.

Yeah. I'm all in, and Lance, you had messaged a great idea for a companion movie with this? Maybe, yeah. I mean, what do you guys think? I thought it was pretty good. alienation. You ever seen that one, Phil?

I don't think I've ever seen it. With James Conn and Mandy Patinkin. And when it was a human and when it was an alien and the aliens are like, I guess they're like being integrated into our society and so they put these two cops up. It's a good movie. I remember that one.

Man, I haven't seen that in a long time. Yeah, I'm cool. That'd be a good pick. The only thing I'm worried about out with Bright is everything you guys say is spot on. Ayer's has done some great stuff. It's got a fantastic cast. Max Landis is a really good

young writer. I just do not want to see Suicide Squad too. That's a lot I'm worried about. A lot's come out with him about that, that he didn't really have full control of the movie. So

I think that's why he's, I don't even think he's doing the second one. They took him off doing it. So you're thinking that since this is Netflix, there's a little bit of a, there's kind of an unspoken word out there that Netflix

is really good about letting its creators be creators and not like reining them in. Instead of having studio push their ideas. Yeah, you guys are selling me on this. So I mean, if this is like Suicide Squad, then David Ayer, you know, you could shut the hell up.

And that you take part of the blame for Suicide Squad. But if this is like Fury or End of Watch or one of the movies, then I'm all on board. Cool. Yeah, makes sense, man. Release date. Just be, you know, it's got Will Smith.

How bad can it be? Yeah. That would work. This will be streaming on Netflix December 22. And you've already got it on our list, so we'll be seeing it. Yep.

And on to our final trailer, which will be Winchester, the house that ghost built. Okay. Based on true events, this is starring Helen Mirren, Jason Clark, and Sarah Snook, directed by a couple of guys that directed a movie. We'll be reviewing later. Michael and Peter Spirig. Mm-hmm. What did you guys think of Winchester? I liked it, man.

I like the look of it. And all I could keep thinking of was the after midnight episode where Denny had Jay Black on there, where they talked about the Winchester House. So this is based on true events. Yes. It kind of reminded me of that murder hotel a little bit, like the devil in the White City story, the guy that created the hotel in Chicago with all the trap doors and stuff like that. You know the people in there?

What, Philip, you probably, do you know the backstress? of this at all, this Winchester? I don't. No, but I'm kind of excited to see it because I like the based on true story type stuff. So I'm down, man. I don't really know much about it, but I'll

definitely watch it. Yeah, there's not too much the Hell of Maron's in that I don't like, so. Right. And she's still gorgeous, man. I don't care. I don't care how old she is. She's still a looker, man. You know what? I am

right there with you. Have you ever seen the pictures of when she was young? Oh, my God. They took, they took a, okay, this was like the strangest thing. They took a picture of her in her mid-20s and did a side-by-side. She could, she looked like, what's that? What is her? Jennifer Lawrence. There's a side-by-side comparison of when she was torn in her 20s. And they did, they took a picture of Jennifer Lawrence now and they looked like they were sisters. sure it was like the craziest thing you're in the one that did uh callicula yes okay you know that that was not the movie i thought you were going to say she's done a lot she's done a lot of movies over the year oh that's she got all naked

in that one didn't she yeah yeah I'm stuck in my mind, man. I know what he's saying. I know what you mean. Winchester, the house that ghost built is coming out February 2nds. Cool. And put it on our list, Brian. It is on there.

I am very intrigued. True events, the house, the look of the house definitely got me intrigued. And it's Helen Marin. And also, Jason Clark. I like Jason Clark. You too. February 2nd, I'll put it on the list. And that is our last trailer.

Philip, we got any feedback this week, man. Looks like all the T-shirts we sent out for iTunes reviews have found their home. Lars from Denmark says thanks for a T-shirt, guys. Now I can have the perfect Halloween. You rock. No, you rock. Lars, thank you. Art from Cali says, just an update.

one's interested. My son watched the original nightmare on Elm Street and laughed the whole time. He loved it but was really amused when the scary stuff went down. Now he wants to watch the rest and isn't scared at all. I might have a little horror freak on my hands.

Well, all spelled in as well. Gene Turner says, I couldn't agree more with your review of Geostorm. The end scene with them on the dock made me laugh out loud. I'm sure it was meant to make you laugh, but there were a lot of other times

than I laughed, and I don't think I was supposed to. Also, you guys mentioned the movie roller coaster. I saw that in theaters when it first came out and liked it at the time. I don't know if I still would. Great show, guys. All right. Thank you. Regarding the movie The Burbs on Brian's 31 Day of Horror List, Beatrix Harper says, oh God, this movie is incredible. It is fun. That's good movie. A RICO Wally, thank you for posting this.

One of my all-time favorites and not many people I know have seen this little cult classic. Oh man, there you go. I haven't seen it forever, Brian. How did it stand up on this showing? Oh, I still love it. I said it in my review on the League of Geeks. 80s Tom Hanks is probably my favorite Tom Hanks. Oh, yeah.

It's definitely, it's got a little bit of horror elements, but it's a family movie. You can watch it with the kids, and it's fun, and it definitely holds out. Yeah. A lot of that Tom Hanks stuff holds up, man. It's a good one. Yeah. Stephen Lobelad says, okay, Philip and Lance, let's finish this shit in Houston. hashtag beat LA, which is not going to happen now because we lost last night.

Oh, yeah, but it ain't over yet, dude. As of our recording. By the time this is on the air, we'll probably, they'll either be down three or they'll be tied again, right, by the time this show gets posted tomorrow. Yeah, we've got Kikel in today. I'm hoping he can pull some shit off, man. Maybe we'll be up by a game. But either way, not going to be able to finish it in Houston anymore, which sucks.

Well. Since we're talking sports, Go Rockets, five and one. Yeah. Whoa. Good start, man. On track to kill the league.

Mm-hmm. Yes. And congratulations on your cowboys today, Phil. Oh, yeah. That was an ugly game if I've ever seen one, but once everything counts all away and I'll take it. Let's see. Alan Easterling,

Jesse Bollinger isn't allowed in Mississippi. unless he's escorted by five members of the National Guard, three state troopers, two police officers, of which ever town he is in, and the county. What? Those are our horocopia buddies.

Is there a story behind that? Oh, yeah, you need to follow the, that's just a good time to plug, to plug another podcast for our listeners. If you guys haven't heard horocopia, yes, I will admit. Sometimes they talk everything but horror when they get into snakes with British accents, the macho man speaking to them being interviewed literally from the grave.

And they did have a spider name Lavelle, but they've killed him off, spoiler alert. But since they talk to Mots from beyond, maybe they can still talk to him from beyond too. So, yeah, this is, if you follow the Facebook page. Shippie, apparently. follow the horacopia Facebook page and you'll understand what this shit's all about Yeah

And Jesse's been doing Jesse and Kevin's been doing a lot of great shows with their jump scares For Halloween Little episodes Those are great So definitely check those out Great show guys

Let's see what else We got one more Okay Well hey from Jesse Bollinger we're all aware of how much you guys don't like the amazing witchboard says what do you guys think of

Night of the Demons directed by the same director that is one of my that is one of my go-to Halloween movies that I'm sorry Kevin what is the director Kevin Tenney Tenney?

Yeah I think Nass has an interview with him coming up, man. Oh, yeah, that was a great episode, great interview. But I'm sorry, Kevin. Night of the Demons is his better movie, by far. Yeah. And I'll bet, and I'll bet. Aside from Tony Catane.

Right. I bet Mest didn't ask him a single question about anything except fucking witchboard, huh? Oh, speaking of Night of the Demons, uh, posted on our Facebook group, uh, Patrick got a nice picture with, uh, Linnea Quigley. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Oh, that. Yeah. That was pretty awesome right there. Mm-hmm. Let's see. Lars from Denmark, of course, says, I love Witchboard. Saw it twice in the theater back in the day. Ah, he was just looking for that Toney Catane scene.

Yeah. There was probably nothing else out in the theater. Yeah. And then I bought a Weechboard and played with my friends, and we were all freaked out. Well, that's what Ouija boards are for, man. Unfortunately, which board, not so much. Let's see. I think that's it for feedback today.

Thanks to everybody who reaches out to us. We love it. As always, you can reach out to us at our Facebook or Podbean page, or you can email us directly at thehorror returns at gmail.com. We love to hear from you. Let us know what's up. And leave an iTunes review. We need some iTunes reviews.

For favor. And you win a T-shirt. Yeah. Or a coozy. I think we're going to make some, uh, print some coosies up, guys.

I think that's a great idea. Yeah. I'd like to, I'd like to have some ready in time for the, uh, Texas Frightmare weekend. That's my goal. I think that would be a little,

a little, a little bit cooler than just handing out the cards, you know. Something you can actually use, you know. So we'll, we'll see how that goes. Kind of, about to start looking into what the cost would be to, to make some of those and we'll

go from there. I'm going to ask the use of beer and give it to them in our coozy. Ah, perfect. Yeah, Lance, you should ask the guys over at Binge. They do a lot of merchandising.

Yeah, I might ask them about it. I've kind of got a hookup for the T-shirts, a family member that does those. So I'm not out a lot of expense on those. So we'll see if he can do Coozy too, man. We might be able to get a really, really good price. All right.

Everybody and Zach Baxter with the Knights of the Drunk Watch. We just finished episode eight of American Horror Story, the winter of a discontent, and it was bloody. So let's start off with introductions. Hi, I'm Kate. I'm Crystal. I'm Andrew. And I'm Zach on the Zach Baxter channel, and Andrews are going to say the magic words. Oh, we are the nights of the drunk watch. And now our talk begins. All right. Kate, hit it with the nuggets.

Okay, so we can start with the fact that. Like the denim boys have taken over the restaurant, and the ladies are in the kitchen cooking, and they're not happy about it. Not at all. So Beverly is essentially like, if we cut off the head of the snake, the army will die.

And Winter's like, oh, no, don't do it. I can still sway him. And Beverly gives him a week, and then she's having to do with him. Yeah. So that's kind of Beverly's goal here is like, listen, we were supposed to be equals.

If we're not, that's not okay. So we do get a couple of interesting background, and we'll come back around to Beverly, but we do get some background flashbacks in this episode. And one is two years ago Halloween, we see Kai and Winter going onto the dark web and just basically trolling people. And they get contacted by Pastor Charles, who brings them to a murder church. The trolling alter right-wing conservatives. Yes. Right. Yeah.

Yeah. They're just like, yeah, they're, I mean, but... Ultra. Yeah, ultra. Yeah, they're just trolling them and they get brought on by Pastor Charles to bring them to the danger house. That's not what it's called. No, it's called the house of, house of, um, we'll, we'll research it. Judgment house.

Judgment house. Thank you. Um, and it's essentially like a horror house of sins. Right? Yeah, basically. Yeah. Um. And at one point, they, just Kai and Winter, Kai is like, no, we're saving these people.

We're going to kill Pastor Charles instead. And that was when he got his, like, that was basically the catalyst for him, yeah, for him to be culty. Yeah. But why, like, what then from there was like, now I shall start a cult and I shall be in power. Well, I think there's a certain something when you, I don't know if that was the first person he ever killed. But he also, like, he took all those people. Yeah. who didn't have power, saved them, and basically convinced them all to do this.

Right. You know, I mean, they said, oh, we're going to call the police. Did he do, da, da, da, and said, no, we're going to kill you. And they all went, okay. Yeah, that's a good. So he felt empowered, I guess. That was his first time of, first taste of power. And blame it, maybe blood.

Yeah. I mean, they murdered that guy several times over. And also, he was to see Winter at his side. Like, he says, what do you think? Let's do this. and she said, yeah, kill the motherfucker. So she seems fully on board with following what Kai says. At this point.

At that point. Yeah. Well, and I think in that situation, because even she, like, the more you saw both of them go through the whole house, he went into his whole, oh, I'm going to fight and save these people. And she was like, no, let's get the fuck out. Yeah, she wanted to leave. But then he was like, no, we'll save them. And she joined the- Yeah, she joined him in saving, even though.

I mean, I don't know. Yeah. That was, that was rough. I guess it also shows that. Yes, that was rough. It also shows that winter is not really a leader. Like, she's just like, let's get the fuck out of here. Yeah.

And Kai's a natural reaction. Right. But Kai is the one that always wants to stand his ground and make a point, it seems. Make a statement. Make a statement. So then the other flashback we got was his introduction. Detective Samuels. Or Detective Ralph.

Ralph is what we call him. If you don't get that reference, you need to watch more Gillianner's movies in the 1960s. Okay. I was hearing Ralph, I'm like, you're not saying it right. No, it's wrong. And if you don't get that,

you need to watch more Julianders movies of the 1960s. Basically. Pretty much. So we see Detective Samuels comes across him and he's selling his brother's drugs from his

prescription pad. and when the detective wants to be partners with him and says bring the money to my house, when he brings it by, he's trying to get down to the lady and that's not working. I just don't get this scenario. If I was a detective and I was crooked and I was going to team up with a drug dealer,

my stance would be leave the money outside. Or give them a time. Yeah, or give them a time. Or at the very least, put the money down and get the fuck out. Yeah. Not, let me tell you all my issues, my problems, I can't get it up. Well, it seems very conversational. If the girl had not escaped,

because he would have gotten it up and gotten it on with her if he continued to be able to choke her. And she was like, I'm out of here, because otherwise he would have been like put it down. He would have seen, and of course, it's Kai. So who knows what Kai would have done it. But a normal, the everyday drug user slash cop team up, he would have gone in,

seeing that the guy was like... And flagrante. Yeah, and then put it down and gotten out of there. Right. But Kai, just, you know, maybe, you know, if it was the same moment where she rushed out, still, probably, a normal person probably would have still gone in and said something. But he wouldn't have been, like, ready to take control over him.

I just, I didn't believe the part of Detective Rolf being deep. deeply intimate with Kai on their second meeting. I didn't either. It didn't make any sense. What connection do you have to do? He gave him some deep, intimate secrets about himself. The only thing I can think is that he caught him in a moment of complete vulnerability. Vulnerability?

Uh, well, and when his secret self wanted Kai to come on to him. Yeah. Is that what you think it was? I mean, the guy's, the guy is, is, is, is, to the very end, it was a closet. it homosexuals. Yeah. So, do you think,

so I, okay, that's possible. I didn't read that in the scene. To me, it just felt like a very clunky

written character scene where it's like, they meet. Ugh, they butt fucked? Yeah. It just seems, and then would you

let a drug dealer butt fuck you on the second, I don't know, some people would. Not me. Okay? No.

Okay. I just didn't, I just didn't believe the scene. Well, because we're also assuming... If they met in a bar, they were like googly eyes. You're also making an assumption of the timeline. Your assumption that it's linear.

This is the first time we saw them together was the first time, and this was the first time we dropped up money. They could have made friends by that. Because also this episode is three weeks past. Yeah. You know, the shooting episode. I don't know. So...

I think Kai is secretly bisexual. Oh, I don't think it's a secret. one who said there is no gay and no straight. Right. He's pansexual. Fine. Next thing I want to get to that we forgot to talk about in the Nuggets, what we definitely need to bring up is the baby Messiah. Oh, God. A attempt.

What was that? Did they even get, they didn't even land the plane. To be fair, though, they got all three people in the room, and they, like, that's further than I know would have gotten in that weird scenario. I would have just been giggling. I wouldn't have gone. I think that, I mean, that for weird storylines

it's about winter's thing because winter is like all about Kai yet part of her know even even though she's a murderer part of her knows that Kai even she knows that Kai is fucked up part of her knows this

this is fucked up part of her is like going no he's my brother and he's a leader and another part of her is going wake up he's a loon You know, well, I think... In the bin of Looney's, he is the Looney Tunes. Yeah. And because I think that's why she throws Beverly under the bus

because Beverly had threatened Kai. So it was easy for her to throw him to the bus for shooting Detective Samuels, Detective Rolf. Yeah. Because she kind of didn't mean to shoot him. And that also protects her. And that protected her. But, you know, and of course, Kai is going to believe. her over anybody else.

Yeah. So, you know, she kind of cocked off, shot him. New Beverly was going nowhere anyway. Threw her under the bus. But, you know, I think until Kai cut

Dr. Vincent's finger off. Yeah. I think she still, I think that is probably the breaking point for winter. I could see that. Her brother. Yeah.

Because... They were family in. Yeah. And so it's like, you know, everything was telling her he's crazy. He's crazy. crazy, he's crazy. Vincent,

being a psychiatrist, picked up on it right away, and then, but, but I think she was still kind of like under his sway. Yeah. And I think losing Vincent is going to be the deal breaker for her. And so, you know, the idea that you know, does she team up with Allie? Well, I think Al, well, this is moving on to another nugget. Right, that's fine.

Allie clearly, I think, clearly, is doing what she's doing to get into that cult so she can get her stuff. Yeah, get out of her. Her plan is an extraction plan. She didn't just become a member of the cult. That was her talk back. Thanks so much, Andrew, for that was it. That was it.

You can talk about winter and Allie Moore. I mean, I was saying, going back to the to the Manaja No. Yeah. A menager, no, thank you. I think... Marajana. Ana.

The Manajana. The menazana. The menaz are not going to happen. Yeah. Yeah. I think part of it was, I think she was playing along. I think at some point she thought this was like, as far as what though?

For me, like, as far as being a woman playing along, when your brother says lay your receptacle down, you don't lean back, put your feet in the stirrups and show it to the brothers. It has to roll. That's a bridge too far. I agree with that. Or you don't let him rub his limb dick on you.

You got to layer cult on top of that. But I think she was conflicted that entire time, and she finally gave into the conflict that said, screw this. But the reason why I say it play along, because Kaya's done all these strategic little moves, like, we'll do this in Latin, and we'll do the satanic thing, and we're going to make this.

Like, she, I think she's seeing it. Yeah, I think she's seeing. Oh, my God. We forgot about that scene. But that's what I'm saying. I don't think she, I think she saw the light that we saw it. This wasn't serious. until it was serious, until there was a lip dick on her vagina.

Like, I think she thought all this was just a game. Until then. Maybe for her, she could slip out while my brother and Ralph get it on or whatever. You know, I don't know. Marjoring. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so until I got, I think she's, I think this episode is of winter coming to realization of this is now real. It's gone to another level.

Yeah. Like before it was just playing and like, we're just trolling people on the internet. Yeah. But now people are fucking dying. You just killed our brother. And so it's not playing anymore for Winter, I think. Well, yeah. But she's been involved in how many deaths already?

So many. Like all of them. Like all of them. Yeah. She was there for the Changs and for the coffin. Maybe. Yeah. Well, yeah.

No, I'd be right. They were family. But I'm just saying it's like the murder. I mean, it's not that the murder of her brother put her over, is going to put her over the edge. of her brother. It's a brother of a brother. Yeah. All right.

So we have two minutes. We need to discuss Team Allie or Team Winter. Allie. Well, who said that they're going to be the same team? Yeah. Those are an opposing team. I think they're opposing teams. I don't.

I do. Do you think Allie just wants to get in, get her son, and get out? Yes. Yes. Yes. I think they have two separate goals. But why can we work together to achieve?

That's true, but I don't. I don't want to take over the cult, though. Yeah. I think Winter's going to realize the cult has to go. Yeah. I think she's realizing her brother has to go. Most definitely. But I think when her brother, like, I think she also realized when the brother goes, the cult dissipates.

Yeah. And she's, and the other thing is, sorry, Koso. You know, she takes her brother out. Is she any better than Kai? And then now she's alone. So she has to live with that loneliness. Yeah. Oh, Andrew.

nobody wants Ivy. Nobody wants Ivy. Winter apparently does. No, she doesn't. Yeah, she doesn't. She won't put up with them. I think Winter's goal, like I said, is, like you said, disband the cult, disband Kai, maybe put him away. And I think Ali's goal is, like you said, get her son and get the hell out.

They could ultimately work together, but I don't think they have told each other at each other's plan. There hasn't been any communication. No. Well, not at all. You presented it as Team Winter Team. Okay, they're not working against each other. They're not opposing teams. No, but they're definitely on paths.

That may converge in the middle. They may have the same goal. Right. But they're working at it from opposite ends. Your metaphor doesn't work in that. Okay, I'm sorry I used the word team. Can we also point out how now he has Ali in Beverly's outfit? And Beverly was originally supposed to be his right hand woman?

Yeah. now alleys. But Beverly's not dead yet. No. She's feeling better. Where did Beverly go? Isolation change. More importantly, where the fuck is Francis Conroy?

Where the fuck is Francis Conroy? I am not going to have this one episode, Francis Conroy. Oh, now Lemuel was on TV. This is so hard. Let's end it. Okay, so that was our talk back because we got to end because Lin'Manuil wasn't and say lots of cute shit. He's secretly my husband.

Let's go. If you like this content, make sure to let the guys at The Horror Returns know. Leave a comment. You can find their podcast at thepodbean.com. Thanks so much, guys, for letting us be a part of you this great content. Oh, that's my alarm saying we're done. And if you like our content, we also watch The Walking Dead on Sundays. On Facebook, we have Talkbikes as well as that.

And we also watch American Horror Story. All right. That's all I got to say. Andrew? We go that's the jerk watch. And now our talk has ended. Good night, everybody. We'll see you on.

Sunday. So you guys ready for featured attractions? Let's do it. We celebrate the return of the Saw franchise with the new movie Jigsaw, as well as the 2004 original, which actually wasn't an original because there was a 2003 short that Lee Winell wrote and starred in. You guys heard anything about the short? I've heard of it.

I've never seen it, though. I haven't either. I almost clicked on it the other day. though I should have watched it. Yeah, me too, man. I kind of want to go back and see it now. But anyway, the director of Saw was, I guess he was kind of just getting started,

but he's horror movie royalty now, and that's the one and only James Juan. Never heard of him. Yeah, sure, of course. Best in the business today, man. Hey, that's strong work, man. That guy's on top of it. Well, all the Conjuring movies,

all the insidious movies, didn't he do one of the Fast and Furious? Yeah, he did Fast 7, and the upcoming Aquaman is also James Wan. Ah, okay, maybe it'll actually be good then. Writers were Lee Wynnell, who writes almost all of the films Wanda X, and he also starred in this movie as Adam. Really, basically one of the two main stars, or I guess one of the three main stars, if you count Jigsaw.

When they were filming at all of the bathroom scenes were shot in chronological order and they did this to make the actors feel more like what the characters were actually going through in real time. This movie did so well in its opening weekend that Saw 2 was approved for production

the very weekend the film opened. And James Wan very smart man. He took a gamble and he decided to take zero up front salary for the movie and opted instead for a percentage. Yeah, that was a good idea. So who wants to dive in, guys? Not all it wants.

I'll go first. Actually, if he has, it won't, I was kind of hoping I could on this one. Oh, yeah, go ahead. Yeah, 2004 Saw is a really, really good movie. I wouldn't go quite so far as to call it a horror masterpiece, piece, but there were some, it got a little corny with some of the Reeb Goldberg contraptions and the believability of them being able to be pulled off that way, but

definitely a lot more believable than some of the later movies in the franchise, and especially what we may talk about later tonight as far as believability of how it could get pulled off, but I thought it was a really neat idea. could definitely see how a lot of sequels came out after this. It was a small movie. I love the fact that it felt really, really, it made me extremely paranoid just watching the bathroom scenes. Because basically you got two guys in there that are chained. And they're given just enough to kind of figure out what's going on slowly, but surely put the pieces together. But they're not given enough to actually, you know, get out of there in one piece.

and it just kind of goes to show you that whoever it is that's holding them in there is just kind of like an evil genius you know that they knew exactly what they were doing and set them up and like I said it's not so far-fetched that you couldn't believe that this could be pulled off I thought putting the cops in there in the fact that Danny Glover's character

became obsessed with it I think that added a nice little wrinkle to it yeah I thought he was great in the movie yeah for sure Sure. And Ken and Kim, Ling, one of his early roles. You guys remember him from Lost? Yeah. He showed up in the later seasons, and he's a pretty big actor now, but I don't think he had done too much at all before this one. Carrie Elways, man, I didn't even recognize him. He's long, different from his dashing, dapper. Princess Bride Days. Love is pain, princess.

but some of those scenes with him man especially toward the end there I mean just ah man he pulled it off I mean he really had me believing that and they did really good makeup work on this to make you because you could see after he had done what he does toward the end of the movie there

to get to finally get out you could just see how all the he was really pale and he looked like he was starting to go you know starting to lose it and fade out very slowly you could almost see it happening. And I thought Lee Wunel considering this guy's a writer and not even really

an actor, I thought he did a really convincing job, man. I mean, they both sold me. First movie, too. What's that? This is the first acting movie. First acting movie, right? That doesn't surprise me too much. I thought pretty much everyone in here

did a good job. Speaking of Lost, Michael Emerson, the guy that was helping jigsaw out, kind of like his lackey. We find out there's a twist there at the of why he's involved, which we didn't really think up to that point was the reason he was involved. But, yeah, all in all, this is a really, really great tight little horror movie. I loved it.

Yeah. I also, I wouldn't say it's a masterpiece, but it's definitely a classic. I mean, we get introduced to, like, Jigsaw the character is iconic to me. And for a while, it definitely, you knew it was Halloween because there was a new song movie. That's how big this was for a period of time. And, you know, and we get introduced to James Wan, who, like you said, went on to do The Conjuring Insidious, you know, had his fingers in countless other horror movies. And, you know, this movie is great. This is probably one of my favorites out of the series.

I did watch the series, and it got really tough. But of course. It got really tough near the end. And because it was just, I don't know, it was just they were bringing back so many people and was like they was connected. This happened then. And it got a little confusing. But, you know, we're not talking about those, talking about this one. Yeah, they're going to reach in there for a while.

Let's see. Carrie, how do you say, Elvis? Right. I thought he was great, especially toward the end when he just completely, you know, lost his mind. mind. Absolutely. The only part I did not like was his interaction with his wife and kid. I just,

I didn't buy it really, especially with his kid. No, man. I did. It was a little cheesy, huh? Yeah,

I thought he was like, I don't know. I thought he was the cornyest parent ever and just did not. I don't know. You know, now I'm saying that maybe that just was his character that he did not know how to relate to his kid. But I thought when,

when you got into the later part of the movie, his acting really kicked in. Lee Wanel, I thought he was fine for what he did. But Tobin Bell, what can we say? You know, that guy is just iconic in horror movies now

because of this movie. So, this is definitely high on my list. And we get introduced, well, not introduced, but she's been around for while. We didn't even talk about Shawnee Smith. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. She, she, she, uh, ends up, her character is a big part of this series. And, you know, she gets introduced in this one and one of the most iconic, uh, jigsaw traps, uh, the reverse bear trap. So. Yes. That was pretty creepy. They didn't even talk about that one in the new one. Yes. Yeah. It's, I, I'm definitely a whole classic. Um, I mean, I don't know really what the difference between classic and masterpiece would be,

but I would definitely put it right up there with a series like Nightmare on Elm Street or Friday the 13th or whatever. It's just, it just started later. Sure. But anytime you have, you know, an original idea with a very convincing bad guy like that that can become iconic. Of course, they're going to, you know, know, kick the dead horse and bring out 18 other movies. But that just goes to show you how good the first one was. And I think it was a really cool original idea in Hollywood.

I loved that, I love that whole little twist section at the end that they do. I love the, where they, you know, reveal everything. And I liked it. It was kind of a really tense horror thing, but it was also sort of a crime drama at the same time. I thought Danny Glover did great. Carrie Ewells did. He was, he was all right.

I could definitely see where you're coming from, you know, where he was kind of cheesy and kind of corny. He was kind of like that pretty much the whole movie. The other dude, the writer, that acted, there were a couple of scenes that were, I wasn't exactly buying him, but for the most part, I thought he did

pretty kick-ass. I mean, it was just, it was a real raw movie. It looked very, you know, low, especially from where Saw is today, it looked kind of like low budget, and you were like watching the beginnings of something great. And I really enjoyed it, man.

It was great to watch, especially if you forget about all the other sequels and stuff and just go back and watch this one, it was really fun. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah, sometimes smaller is better, you know, something like this. And, you know, like I alluded to earlier,

the traps that he started creating like in the second, third, fourth movie, and then especially in jigsaw. It's just like, it's almost like sometimes you see something set up and it's like, oh, wow, that was really cool. But then you think back and you're like, no, wait a minute. How did he know that that exact purpose? person was going to be at that exact place and pick up the tape recorder that has their name on it.

And you didn't do a whole lot of that in this one. That's what was so cool. It's basically it was just kind of all set up just for those two people. Yeah, that's true. Now, why, I think I missed it. Why did he pick up Kerry E.L. Wizz, whatever the hell his name is? Mm-hmm. Why did, why did he choose him?

because he seemed like a pretty good dude, except that he almost cheated on his wife. Yeah, and I think... It's like word with his life? Yeah, I think he thought there was more... I think Tobin Bell's character might have thought there was even more going on than there was. And it didn't have something to do with the way he acted at the hospital,

I think, because that's where, of course, that Tobin Bell was staying there in that hospital. Weren't there some other things going on with him that kind of pissed off Tobin Bell's character? Yeah, I felt like it was kind of stretching. I was like, this is the guy that you're going to choose to, you know, redeem by murder? Like, at least have a good reason for it. Yeah, what do you, what do you think, Brian?

You think there was a good reason that he was chosen or do you think he jigsaw could have made a better pick? I think he was one of his physicians when he was in the hospital with his brain cancer. and I think, I don't think, oh my gosh, they didn't really cover it that well, but I don't think, I think maybe he just kind of glossed over his case and didn't really properly help him. That's kind of what I'm thinking. It sounded like, maybe he felt like he was partially to blame, you know, for the diagnosis and everything. I guess. We're not dealing with a perfectly sane person here, obviously.

Well, yeah. That's true. but I mean, I feel like in a lot of the later movies, he has reasons for choosing these specific people. And then, you know, as the story goes on, you find out the reasons that he chose these specific people. And as the story goes on in this one, you find out reasons why he probably shouldn't have chosen that guy because he seems like a pretty good dude. Anyway, that was, that was probably my only real gripe about the movie. Yeah, it's a good thing to bring up because, you know, now I'm thinking about it. You know, it's not really, I don't know if he really done it.

anything that horrible. And then the guy that takes pictures, I mean, he seems like kind of a douchebag, but... Yeah, the voyeur. Yeah. The guy who's basically a private detective. Yeah.

But, yeah, I mean, that's his job. He's kind of a dick, but I don't know if he... There's a lot of other people that does that, so, I mean... Yeah. I would say the only... I would say the only thing that I found kind of...

I didn't find any of that too hard to swallow because I just kind of thought he's bit of a psychopath anyway. So he's basically playing God. So he's going to just pick the people to kill that he just wants to fuck with, you know? And he's basically, it's not really necessarily in this first movie. It got more toward the later movies.

It was more they did actual specific evil deeds or things that led to people's deaths. This one I think it was more just, look, I'm just trying to pick a couple of people and just explain to you that you guys are taking, your health and, you know, your good health in your life for granted, whereas I'm about to die, you know, let's give you, let's give you something to go through that's going to make you

really appreciate your life. And if you do survive it and come through, you're going to be a better person, you know, like the drug addict was, the lady you talked about earlier, Brian, Shawnee Smith. Oh, yeah. I think was her name. So, you know, I mean, that's kind of what I saw. The only thing I found a little hard to swallow in the whole thing is how long were they in that room. Did it start it, it started at 10 p.m. and they had until six, right? So like eight hours? Yeah. So you mean to tell me Tobin Bell is going to lay there perfectly still in the middle of the room with them thinking he's a corpse without having to get up to piss or take a shit or anything? Didn't he inject himself with something? Is that what it was? So he basically, I believe so.

Okay. All right, that makes a little bit more sense. Gave himself like a tranquilizer, huh? Yeah, he just, uh, can't. He just conveniently woke up at the right time. Okay, I got you. Yeah, that and, I mean, they sure didn't try very hard to cut those chains. You know what I mean? It was like, I'm going to saw real furiously for like 10 seconds and then give up.

Well, I don't think I would have been sawing on the chain itself. I think it would have been sawing on the lock, you know? That's a lot thinner. Yeah, something. But I feel like if, even though it's, a dull blade if it's sharp enough to cut through your bone, which obviously it was, then I'm pretty sure

in, you know, eight hours, you could probably get through a lot. Yeah, I would have at least given it a bit more of a shot too. Yeah, or you could have been like Donnie Wahlberg and I believe it was three. Mm-hmm. You just break your foot and slide it through. Oh, yeah.

Right. Well, shit, I mean, we all knew it was coming. As soon as we saw those saws, or I don't know about you guys, but I knew that I knew somebody was going to be cutting off a body part to get out of there. I just kind of started writing on the wall there. Yeah, I mean, my final thoughts on this one is I just, I thought it was a really great, tense little tiny horror movie. And that's what I liked about it.

And that, and that's what I began to progressively dislike as the movies went on and on. they tried to get a little bit too elaborate, I think. Yeah. Yeah, I'm with there with you. It was more, I was into the story more in the beginning of the franchise, and it just became more about, you know, watching how people die. Mm-hmm. And the story's got a little, little thinner.

Right. This wasn't nothing there, but, you know, this is where it started, and this is definitely iconic movie, and it's, it's, started something, something big. And, you know, I'm looking at the budget here. This movie was only a little over a million dollars to make. Mm-hmm. And it went on to gross over $100 million.

So it just tells you what kind of a phenomenon of this movie was at the time. Yeah, definitely helped James Wan to build his empire. Yep. Well, if you guys are ready for scores, we can dive in. Let's do it. Yeah, I saw this movie when it very first came out at the theater. I thought it was really good then. On the rewatch,

a couple of plot holes, of course, that you pick up. You could tell it was an early movie. But, yeah, I mean, I still give this a real good strong seven. This is a really good horror movie, and it's definitely, you know, watch several. It's worth several rewatches for sure.

Strong seven. I am going to go just a little bit higher than you. I'm giving to 7.5. Just everything you said, this is definitely the best one out the series and you get so many, you get Tobin Bell's jigsaw,

which is just up there with, you know, is he really a serial killer? Because he never really kills anybody. I don't know. Yeah, technically he doesn't, does he?

He puts him in a position to die. Yeah. So, I mean, I think that just adds to his character, you know, how he's able to get people to do these things himself and his,

real psychological and definitely he's up there with a lot of horror villains and maybe we'll do another villains with the you know in a March Madness episode maybe he'll be on there maybe he'll be on there might make the guy next time

yeah so I'll go over a seven a half for an old man with cancer that dude is pretty limber he takes people out yeah Yeah, I loved it. I'm going to go pretty high.

I'm going to say eight and a half. Wow. I think it's a classic. I think if you haven't seen this movie, what the fuck are you doing with your life? You've got to watch it. Right. If you haven't seen this movie and you're listening to our show, then you're completely wrong. I would be shocked.

I would be shocked if any of our listeners haven't seen this before. Yeah. You know? But it's great, man. I think it was really original for when it came. came out. I think they, you know, went overboard. It's like, it's like a really good song that comes on the radio and then they just

play the shit out of it. That's what happened with Saw, you know? But that's what happens with a lot of movies. Saw was the Despacito of its time, huh? I don't know about that. But yeah, you get my point. I liked it, man. I think it's I think it created a new horror icon and a new franchise

when in a time when we were losing those people. You know what I mean? Like Child's Play and Jason and Freddie and all were kind of sliding downhill in 2004. So Saw picked up where they left. Yeah, it was something fresh. Yep. Yeah. Very good way to put it.

All right. Well, that brings us to. Jigsaw. So now we're up to 2017. Jigsaw is directed by Michael and Peter Spirig. Why is that name? Why do those names sound familiar, Brian?

They're doing an upcoming movie called Winchester and what else did they do? They did some They did a movie pre-descination. Daybreaker. Yeah, they also did go ahead.

No, go ahead, man. I was also saying they did Daybreakers, which I thought was a decent little vampire movie. I've never seen that. Yeah, both movies have Ethan Hawking in it, so. I think I've seen that one. It's been a long time. I'll have to, I don't know, I watch a lot of dumb movies sometimes. Yeah, is it, Brian, you know if it's on Netflix or not?

Predestination. Yeah, Ethan has those. I know I own Daybreakers, so. I don't think that's on there. Predestination might be on Netflix. I'll have to look for it. I've been told good things about that movie. Yeah.

Isn't it a time travel? A little bit of time travel in it? I think so, man. I think it's kind of similar to what we did a couple of weeks ago. I think it's a time loop type thing. Okay. I think so. Those are good when they do them right.

The writers of Jigsaw were Pete Goldfinger and Josh Stolberg, also known for Piranha 3D and Piranha 3D. I love those movies. Even though Saw 3D the final chapter was originally intended to be the final movie of the franchise, in 2012 the studio Lionsgate had expressed

interest in continuing the franchise, and they were even contemplating rebooting it. Then in 2016, the development for Jigsaw was officially confirmed. this is actually the first Saw movie in fact to be released more than a year after the previous as you guys were talking about the uh the Halloween tradition they had there for several years and this does take place 10 years after the events of Saw 3 which is the movie that

features the death of Jigsaw as well tie all that together I'm sure so I went first on saw who wants to go first on this one um I'll go um I thought this was a fun movie. Was it the best out of the franchise? I don't know. I've had a chance to watch the other ones more than once, but I had a lot of fun with this. I did enjoy how they kind of brought Tobin Bell back into the story,

but also explained why he was in there. Yeah. Hard to explain that without hitting spoilers, huh? Yeah. So I'll wait on that. This one has spoilers written all over it, doesn't it? But I thought the kills and the torture devices were cool. I did enjoy the story.

I didn't like the introduction of a new character to the series. I'm assuming he's going to be a part of the series now. Yeah, it's very hard to not really talk about this without even giving anything away. because I just like how the story played out for the most part. I was able to spot who the killer was. Were you?

Yeah. How in the world did you do that? I'll get into that because my wife and son actually went with me and I just kept leaning over. I was like, that guy is the killer. And then I leant over. And yeah, and then they did a little timeline

thing in here and I was able to spot that. So, but overall, I had a lot of fun with it. It kind of brought me back because this was like one of those movies. Like I said, with the previous review, when it was Halloween, it was saw time. And it was, it was just kind of fun to go watch these kind of movies in the theater. And it kind of brought me back to that. So a lot of fun with this movie. Yeah.

I'll agree with you. on that, man. It was definitely a lot of fun. It was, uh, I, I liked it, man. It was pretty good. There was a lot of things you kind of have to look past. It's a lot of stupid people making stupid decisions sometimes. Right.

Why would you do that? What are you doing? That makes no sense at all. Yeah. If you guys talk to John Heater, you can get me a sound bite from my stupid people segment. Okay. And his Napoleon dynamite just need to get him to say, idiot. there was some not too smart people in this movie

why are you going over there there's nothing good that's going out of this but uh um and some of the acting was a little chenzy uh we'll go with that word um that's a good way of it's a good thing I mean, there was some, there was some cornball shit in there sometimes. Okay. But it was, it was really fun to watch, man. I, I did not see the plot twist coming.

Yes. Nor did I. It was, yeah. I kind of, but I went in there not trying to figure it out, too. You know, I was, I was letting Saw do what Saw does. You know, they were, they were, they were, I was there to have a good time, and they were just going to show me a show. And I was not disappointed.

It was fun. Cool. All right, time to throw the cold water on. Didn't really care too much for this one, guys. Way, way, way, way too far-fetched for me. There was, I will say this, I will say this right off the bat because the people who don't want to hear the spoilers, you know, won't hear us talk about, you know, what the twist was.

I will say I enjoyed the twist to an extent, but I could have sworn looking back that there were, and I have to rewatch this movie, because I could have sworn there was at least one scene where once they got to the twist it couldn't have happened because there was something that overlap

but I have to go back and double check on that but let's say that they don't let's say that they did pull it off just right and film it exactly enough to kind of fool us with our persistence of vision and assumptions on what's going on when it's going on I thought the acting was just

fucking horrible in this movie I thought that all the characters were I think Chensy was an understatement dude I mean, this was some bad, bad, bad acting from a lot of different people. One of the bright spots, I will say that if either of you two guys says that the, says that the red hot, the redhead with the tattoos wasn't fucking smoking hot. I'm going to call it. I was, you know what?

I was going to correct you when you said hot because she definitely is smoking hot. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I'm kind of a dangerous side, you know. That's what I like. Obviously, why she got the part, because I'm pretty sure it was not her acting. Yeah, yeah, definitely. I mean, the acting really, really took me out of this.

Now, when Tobin... She was an awful convenient character, too. I thought that was a little overboard. Very convenient. And she wasn't the only one. Okay, here's what I hated about this movie most of all. The fucking way that they set up, and I like... I can't go into spoilers, but I like the way they did tie two things together,

which we can talk about it a little bit. But I really, I could not swallow. There was one scene, this isn't a big spoiler. It's really, really early on where it was set up, like I was saying, for one specific person to pick up a tape recorder and have their name on it, how in the world did he know that that person would do that thing to get to that place where that tape recorder? recorder wise. Because he's an idiot.

I mean, seriously, it was just a little too Rube Goldberg for me, I guess I would say. Yeah, and that's what I was saying about how the series went on. It just kind of went into that and it kind of took away from the story. I'm kind of worried about the writing now for the Winchester House movie

because if these are the two guys that did it, but I guess they're not the people necessarily who wrote it. I don't know, guys. It was a lot for me to swallow, and it was just, with the exception of Tobin Bell, and everybody knew he was going to be in here, which it could be a flashback or whatever. You never know.

Because movies have shown flashbacks before, but I mean, he's always good. But other than that, I don't think there was one redeeming acting performance in this whole movie, was there? Did I miss something? Well, I mean, to be first, I don't think a lot of these characters

are even supposed to last that long for them to put on some kind of acting performance. Okay. Well, I didn't even notice that it was the... I thought the cop was okay. Hey, it was the supergirl from Smallville was in it. Did you guys even recognize that it was Laura Vandervort?

Yeah, I did. Yeah, I didn't even recognize her until afterwards when I was looking through the credits, but she's, uh, she's quite a, she's quite a pretty young last in her own right. So, Um, they did, they did have some really good looking chicks in the movie for the gals. They had some, they had some beefcake for them to enjoy.

So, you know, can't hate them too much for that. But, ah, man, it was too far-fetched for me, guys. Too far-fetched. You know, far-fetched, it definitely was. I can, I can see that. Yeah, that's pretty much where the franchise went. Yeah. All right.

Score time? Yep. Uh, I will give it. A shit. That's not a very good score. No. You said you had fun, man. I did have fun, but the rating I was going to throw it out puts it in line with the first one.

I know, right? I was about to go with that, too. And I was like, man, I don't know if it's quite there. Okay. I'm going to give it a six, which is to me, to me, is not a bad score. It was fun. It's just there was some minor things that was just, I don't know. Actually, I'm going to go.

I'm, okay, I'm a rewind. I'm going to up my score. I'm kind of there with you, Philip. I'm going to up my score of a saw to eight. And I'm going to give this, I'm going to give this a soft six and a half. There you go. Okay. I had fun.

I had fun with it. I thought the story could have been better. And Lance, you're right with the acting. it was bad, but also, to be fair, I don't, I don't think we were supposed to get used to any of these characters attached to them in any way. So, I think they serve their purpose. Okay. Fair enough. Makes sense.

Everything you say is legit. All right. Hang on. I got a crying little one. Give me, like, two minutes. Yeah, no problem. What's wrong? Oh, no. You hear that, Brian? Yeah. Oh, I guess while he's there, we can discuss what our plans are for the kids' Halloween show.

Okay. You guys want to try to do it one night this week then? Yeah, that's fine. Yeah, I don't know. My daughter went to go stay at her aunts, and I told them to have her here by three, and she's still not even here. so. Hey, man.

Not a big deal. Caitlin and Addison weren't able to come by the day either, so. Okay, cool. It's been kind of chaotic. Hopefully we'll, hopefully listeners will release the show before Halloween, or at least on Halloween day. Okay. If not, unfortunately, this year, it may be a couple of days after, but hell, you know,

it's the spirit of the holiday still. You know, that's what counts. Yeah. So the, uh, the three movies we're going to be reviewing are going to be, uh, what, uh, what, are they, Brian? Boo, two, Child's Play, and Beetlejuice. That's right. You folks heard it right.

We're actually letting the little ones see Childs play. Okay. Sorry. Hey, no problem, man. I've got a feeling that mine might go into a little bit of the others because they've seen all the Chucky movies now. Yeah. Great parenting.

Our grandparenting. Well, mine's seen Childs Play quite a few times. so awesome all right so philip i think we were getting to your score man

yeah you know I think uh I think I'm gonna go on six and a half also um not bad it was yeah it was it was it was cheesy

and um it is what it is man I mean you went to the movie to see a cheesy gory horror movie and uh they did they pulled that off

I thought it was fun Cool. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I didn't totally hate it. It's definitely not a bottom five. I will say that up until the twist, I would have given it probably half a point lower. But I thought it was kind of neat the way they've kind of played with your mind with the timeline there. I thought they did a pretty decent job pulling that off. Like I said, I think there was one mistake. And if I go back and find it, I'm going to point out what it is on the next show. But all that being said, I'll give it a three. and a half. Definitely not. Yeah, definitely not one of the, that's not bad, dude. That's not one of the worst of the year. That means it's one third good. Ain't nothing wrong with one third good. Hey, let me put it to you this way. If I hadn't gotten my movie pass and seen it on the movie pass, I probably

would have been a lot more pissed off, okay? I'm working on getting that thing myself, actually. Real quick, real quick, I need to put in the Rotten Tomato Scores. Okay. Jigsaw came in at 39%. Ouch. But it came out an audience score of 82%.

Whoa. That makes more sense. There you have it. Hey, at least it was a horror movie on the horror returns. So fun, but not necessarily a great story. Fair enough. Fair enough. But it is full of spoilers.

Yes, it is. This is a motherfucking spoiler alert. You've been fucking warned. This is a motherfucking spoiler alert. You've been fucking warned. This is a motherfucking spoiler alert. You've been fucking warned. What are you guys thinking about the twist?

The time switch there. I seen it coming. I didn't. I'm glad you did, man. You saw a lot of shit coming, Philip, and I didn't, it sounds like. I synced it. Did you? Yeah.

Did you see it coming, Phil? No, I didn't. I didn't either. I thought that was him. I thought he was in the present timeline. I'm going to explain why I thought there was a time difference. It's because of these bodies. There was no way he was getting these bodies out after they died

and setting them up in all these different places. Because I believe the scene where the guy died in the, I don't even know what that contraption was that was attached to motorcycle. Oh, yeah. And lowered him. Yeah. Yeah.

The body was put in the warehouse closet, where the, where the chick had all the, the, the jigsaw contraptions. Right. But then you cut to the next scene where the, the main girl, Anna, is in. She's not even that far from where he died. She's, she's already in the next room. And I'm like, how, how did you get the body? in there. This had to have happened in two different timelines.

Okay. I didn't see that big of a timeline, the 10-year gap. Right. But I just figured there's no way he's getting these bodies out. Because they wasn't really moving, when they moved on to the next area, it wasn't that big of a jump, you know. It was only like a room over. So that's where I've seen that.

And where I caught where it was the doctor, mortit, what was he? worked in the morgue or whatever, the forensic guy. Sure. Where he found the flash drive inside the guy's neck. I thought that was a little too, I don't know. I'm not, I don't, yeah, I don't do autopsies or forensic science, but all of a sudden he was like, what is this? And then he stuck the tweezers inside the guy's neck and then pulled it out. I don't know how you saw this.

And then I found, I thought the one scene where he found the jigsaw piece missing from the chick's tongue. I just kind of felt like he knew where to look. So I just kind of was like, this guy, I leaned to my wife, and I was like, that's, that's, that's, that's the new jigsaw. But then I thought I was wrong. I thought I was wrong at the end with the scene with the laser collar. But then she pointed out, she was like, no, I think you're still right because. Right. If that was, if that was, if those were laser cutters, why didn't his head split open?

I was thinking that too, actually. Yeah, that was kind of weird. But he sure fooled the other guy, didn't he? Yeah, I mean, I thought he was dead Mm-hmm Yeah, I thought so too But my wife just was like Why didn't they cut his head

It just cut his head Yeah Like I thought he was dead But I was like Wow, that was kind of disappointing You know For lasers coming at your head I was like

Oh, this is going to be cool Yeah Yeah It was kind of cheesy though I don't think they had that kind of technology In morgues really do they those laser cats. Yeah.

And another thing I had a problem with the guy, though, I guess he was supposed to be more like the comedy relief. The guy, the dumb ass that got his leg caught. Yeah. Did he really, did he really do something that horrible?

Right? Yeah, what was his sand? He wasn't the one that stole the motorcycle. No, he he was the one that did the pocket. He was drunk and stupid and standing up in the back of his buddy's car when he was a teenager.

Right. And they reach back to get him and he falls out and they crash. Yeah. Who hasn't done that? I mean, seriously. Well, I haven't fallen out of a car. I've got 25 dead buddies right now. Just ran into shit and blew up.

I mean, I mean, granted, you know, sit down, asshole. You're drunk. But at the same time, they were speeding down the street. Speeding and the guy was not looking, you know. and I can't imagine that he was the only one drinking. So I just, I kind of, I kind of felt like compared to pickpocketing a lady's purse and not giving her inhaler and kind of watching her die. Oh my God. How satisfying was it when she fucking died?

I was like, somebody killed this bitch already. And then also, you know, me and my wife talked about this movie. I was like, I just, I thought it was kind of unfair that guy died. compared to somebody that smothered their fucking baby and blame the husband who later kills himself. I'm like, that's not even on the same level. So I didn't understand why he was, I thought they were going to, because they mentioned he was like a shady business guy. Yeah. I thought they were going to allude to something else he did, but it just never, they didn't really sell that point to me.

And I just kind of felt like unfairly got his leg. He was just a generic douchebag. There was. Yeah. Yeah. Again, like, like, like, the. points you were making about the first saw movie it's not like he picked okay uh tobin bell or rather jigsaw the punisher he ain't yeah the punisher would be very very careful to pick the people who

absolutely needed to die and make sure that they bought it you know what i mean yeah just kind of seems to arbitrarily pick a couple of people who like uh irritate him yeah i kind of compare some of these some of these to like his protégés, his followers that helped him after because they started, I felt, you know, rewatching the older movie or the movies in the series, I kind of felt like nobody ever really did anything wrong. It was more they're just killing people.

And that really just took away from the overall story. True. But, yeah, I just, I thought he just unfairly died. And, but I will say I did. enjoy the kills in this. It was very gory.

And there looked like a lot of practical effects. And I'm always big on that, especially the one with the, like you said, the lady with the part that snatched the purse. Yeah. That was very with the, with the acid that just came, you know, sparting out the side of her face. Yeah. That was very gory. And then the hell up. Jesus Christ.

And then the, and then the laser cutter scene at the end, which. turn that guy into a demigorian from strange to think. Well, and I like the guy they had on the table, too, with like half his face gone. Oh, yeah. That was pretty cool, man. That was cool. But overall, I thought, I thought the kills were nice to see. The contraptions were pretty cool. You know, some of them didn't make sense. Right. but the story just was just falling just fell a little short especially with the

with the hot redheaded chick you know she was clearly to put there to make us think that that was the killer which it couldn't have been that easy yeah especially when they found the warehouse yeah she just completely had a warehouse more and build all these elaborate fucking things that are you know a tribute to to jigsaw yeah yeah A little far-fetch. But yeah, you're, you guys are spot on. You know, she's hot as shit. Because even when, even when she just got her hair pulled back with glasses,

I'm like, you're pretty fucking hot to work. In a lap boat. Yes. And I've got, guys, I've got a major, I've got a major gripe about her specifically. Okay. It goes back to something that a friend of the show, Patrick Lear, posted. He said, what's the one thing that was really good in the 80s that's really missing in horror movies today? Ariota

Gratuitous nudity Come on guys Couldn't we have at least gotten a few Topless scenes I mean This was our rated right We got partial boo With the

As it was split apart Yeah Right That's what we got Yeah Yeah it's not It's not that time no more I guess

I guess Maybe we can maybe we can revitalize it man bring it back bring boobs back there you go maybe we can get with uh maybe we can get with laras

we can get with lars and uh justin and a couple of our other listeners who are in the filmmaking industry and we can we can revitalize the gratuitous nudity horror movie as a genre I'm telling you we slap a pink ribbon on that thing and we can get a whole lot of like

test dancer stuff to go along with it. And then it'll be like female empowerment. Absolutely. We can be a part of that. What was it? Hashtag free the nipple. Free the nipple. Yeah.

All right. Anything else you want to bring up? Real quick, Lance. What was the thing that you said you had to go back and look? I was interesting. Yeah. I just thought for some reason when the part when Tobin Bell was speaking with those two people, I could have sworn that they got mixed up in the current timeline with the cops that they were in the same scene together.

Obviously not. I mean, I know it was just my mind playing tricks on me, but for some reason, looking back, I thought, wait a minute, that can't be the case because they were in the same exact scene with the current people, but I guess not. Because I think when the cops found their bodies, they were all decomposed and everything, right? Yeah, when if, I don't know if you guys want to, they're all on Netflix, but if you rewatched a series, there's a lot of time jumping and basically the whole series

happens within you know a specific time period sure like one of the later movies in the franchise actually happens before one of the movies earlier on in the series and they do a lot of a lot of time jumping and okay they kind of they're known for playing fast and loose

with that I don't even think I've seen in any of the movies after like number four or five Oh, the last one is fucking terrible. That's what I heard, man. Yeah, it is. Was that the 3D one or whatever? Yeah, where they brought back Kerry Elwoods. And he, apparently he's been helping since the first one.

Oh, no. I never, I didn't watch that one. Yeah, oh, sorry, spoiler. Oh, no worries. That actually makes me want to watch it. We're fine. So, yeah. Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of, you know, oh, this guy was like the head of the SWAT team, so let's make him the main person in part five and a lot of that going on.

It just seems like a lot of these, if you're a detective in the solid franchise, you're going to die, basically. Yeah, you're either going to die or you're going to be working for the gigas. Yeah, it always seems like, yeah, neither you're going to be working for them or you did something horrible in your past you have to pay for. Yeah. Or you just irritated that grouchy old Tobin Bell. Yeah, which I knew that guy was going to die. I was like, you're not Jigsaw, but you probably did a bunch of horrible shit and you're going to die. And he died very horribly.

Indeed. That was kind of cool, though. I did like, I would say I like the special effects in this movie for the most part. And, again, it was a horror movie. Yes. So you guys, uh, said your piece or anything else to add here? Yeah, I think that's all that I can think.

I do on that one. All right, cool. All right, well, so as always, we want to thank you guys for listening to another episode of The Horror Returns. We would love to hear your feedback and ideas. You can always reach us at the Horror Returns at gmail.com. Be sure to follow us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Podbean. What else, Brian?

I think we're on, yeah, we're on Tumblr now. Tomber? Yeah, don't go for Tumblr for any news. I'm just going to post the shows, any news on upcoming episodes and stuff. Okay. And also our Facebook group. Yep, Facebook, the Horror Returns and also the Horror Returns group. And we love to have you in there, guys.

We're up to what you said, 311 last count, I think, right? Yeah, it might be a little bit more. We're getting an influx. of people wanting to join the group. And that is awesome because we love talking to all you guys about whatever. Bring it home.

As we read earlier, that's where Stephen posted about the Astros. So yeah, whatever you guys want to talk about. Cool. Join the group. Hell, friend me if you want to. I don't pay attention to Facebook a whole lot, so I might not respond to you.

Yeah. Don't feel bad. I do the same thing of my mom. Brian, you're really into Twitter. I don't even get on Twitter, so feel free to reach out to us through any of those methods for sure. Absolutely. And most importantly, if you use Apple or get into iTunes,

please, folks, please rate us and review us. Again, we're getting ready for it. I think once a quarter we're going to do a T-shirt giveaway. So if you do the rating and reviewing on iTunes, we guarantee you you will get a T-shirt. It may take a little longer, We'll get it for you. Next week, speaking of not going horror anymore,

we pursue the Hammer of the Gods with Thor, Ragnarok, and also Valhalla Rising. So, until the horror returns again, Go. No.