The Horror Returns - THR - Ep. #89: The Prisoner (1967) Retrospective (Re-upload)

Episode Date: August 16, 2022

Jack Falvey IV joins us to talk about the classic cult TV show, The Prisoner. Thanks for listening! The Horror Returns Website: https://thehorrorreturns.com THR Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thehorrorreturns THR Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thehorrorreturns/ Join THR Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1056143707851246 THR Twitter: https://twitter.com/horror_returns?s=21&t=XKcrrOBZ7mzjwJY0ZJWrGA THR Instagram: https://instagram.com/thehorrorreturns?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y= SK8ER Nez Podcast Network: https://www.podbean.com/pu/pbblog-p3n57-c4166 ESP Anchor Feed: https://anchor.fm/mac-nez E Society YouTube Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UCliC6x_a7p3kTV_0LC4S10A Music By: Steve Carleton Of The Geekz

Victims, for those of you who delight and dread, who fantasize about fear, who glorify goal, welcome. You have found the place where the whole returns. Listeners beware. This podcast contains major plot spoilers in the foulest of language. Join us in celebrating the old and the new the best and the worst

in horror. Oh my God. This is the podcast that proves the horror never ends. Each episode, we usually seek out and review a brand new horror movie and then we go back and find a classic work with similar themes. But this week, as we do so often lately,

we're doing things differently. And in celebration of the 50th anniversary of the cult classic television show The Prisoner. We're going to be talking all about the prisoner. We're going to spoil the final episode, but not until the end, because a couple of our goals here is we want to have fun, but we really want to bring some new viewers into the village who've never been exposed to this show before.

When you hear the spoiler alert, you know we're going to start talking about Fallout, which is the finale. So just, you know, if you haven't watched it yet, us off at that point. You can come back and listen to it after you've seen it and you won't miss a thing. I'm Lance and with me as always are my co-host Brian and Phillip.

And tonight coming all the way from the binge media network. It's our good friend Jack Falvey the 4th. How's it going, Jack? What are you guys up to these days over there? What's going on, guys? Very happy to be here again. It's always fun to come and guests on this

podcast. I know I say it every time, but you guys do really great work over here. So it's a Thank you. It's somewhat of an honor. I appreciate you coming on. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. No, everything's always happening in a pinch media, you know. We've got to currently have a new show that we might be rolling out soon in the works. A couple shows on hiatus. We're trying to sort of reorganize and focus in on some things we have coming down the pike. I can tell you that TV commentaries are coming back in full force very soon. So stick with it for that. It's been a while.

Yeah, for sure. And better call binge, I think you're going to be seeing some better called binge sooner than maybe most people thought. So we've been told, Jack. So we've been told. Yep, yeah. So, yeah, lots of good stuff. Awesome, dude. Well, what kind of television shows are you guys thinking about doing commentary zone?

Or would that be telling? That would be telling, but I will let you guys know all fair. I can tell you there's a certain show that starts the last week of February that I think a lot of people who listen to this show will be interested in. All right. They may want to keep your ear to the grindstone. That doesn't fucking make sense, but whatever. All right, well, we'll try to figure it out. So, as you know, Jack, we always start with Cool of the Week.

What's the coolest thing you've seen this week, man, besides what we're covering? So the first of which, Lance, I know you've talked about it before, but I finally circled back to Star Trek Discovery. I'm about five episodes in at the moment. All right. I'm really enjoying it, man. You know, I kind of went in with very low expectations. I've stayed away from a lot of reviews and things like that. I heard a little, I don't know, Scuttlebutt about when it first started, but, excuse me, haven't heard much since.

But yeah, I kind of dove in, and I like what they're giving us. You know, not to get super spoiler, but the concept of, you know, interspace travel with this like spore network was kind of interesting to me. I kind of like that. I really like Anthony Rap in the show. He's not, like, phenomenal, but I don't know. I'm just kind of digging the characterization there. Obviously, Doug Jones is always awesome to see.

So, yeah, that's. I'm really enjoying what they're doing there. Cool. Yeah. And then the other thing that I... For me, it picked up even more when they get past the mid-season break. So I think it's going to get even better, but you'll have to tell me your thoughts about all that. I will say I have one small gripe.

And it's not bothering me to the point where I don't like it. It's just a little weird. But it does seem like the Klingons all have very high-thrody voices in this one. And I don't know what that's about. Like, you know, I'm thinking back in the day, you know, search for Spock. It's like Christopher Lloyd and, you know, he's like, Grog, check, nah, you know. Right. These guys, it's all like, oh, mok, check, look, chikna, doesn't it?

Yeah, it's like, it's a little weird, but I don't know. You get that cling on accent down, man. Yeah, there you go. But it's, it reminds me of, you know, it's clear Game of Thrones influence. It reminds me of the Dothraki right off the hop, you know. Oh, yeah. So good stuff. But the other thing that I definitely wanted to watch this week because I knew I would be on here was the documentary 7852.

Oh, Hitchcock. Exactly. So it's supposed to be about the shower scene in Psycho because it was, what was it, 78, I think it was 78 cuts in the scene, but 52 different setups. Wow. And the documentary, in my opinion, thankfully, it kind of goes into the making of Psycho and, like, Hitchcock's psychology of it, the influence that that movie's had on other movies and all this, all this kind of deep stuff that I wasn't really expecting from it. Very solid. You know, I know you guys have a respect for Hitchcock. You know, this is exactly the kind of thing that you want to see about is work.

because it gives you the perspective of sort of how they made that scene but also how the film is constructed around it and they kind of take a deep dive on Anthony Perkins' role in the film and how he approaches certain line readings and it's just really fascinating I mean anybody who's a horror fan obviously you've got to have Psycho in your toolkit

and you've got to know it backwards and forwards and if you do this is a perfect companion so I've really really enjoyed this I highly recommend it that sounds super cool is it uh like on demand or on netflix or what uh i mean an honest movie guy has it i believe so i got you it's out there somewhere awesome hey brian what was your what was your cool man um i don't know if it falls on the cool or not so cool so i don't know how i feel about it uh cloverfield paradox uh i knew you were going to say that um some parts

of it I liked. Some of the characters in it in there didn't work for me but I think I was just bothered by them trying to shoe in this whole the Cloverfield connection. It wasn't working with me and I kind of see why

it got dumped on Netflix. Right. Yeah. Like it wasn't really a Cloverfield movie. It was just a crazy sci-fi space movie. It was like life. I mean, there was some parts of it I enjoyed but just overall It's about on that level. I mean, I didn't hate life.

Yeah, I didn't hate it either, but that wasn't the greatest movie either. Yeah. Yeah, I'm just really surprised. I guess Netflix paid like $50 million for this movie. And that was incredible to hear. Yeah, so. Yeah, the only big name dude was that Irish guy, right? I mean, he's not even that big name.

Chris O'Dowdowd was in it, right? I did not like him in this at all. No, yeah. I got to say, I thought the cast was actually pretty stacked. I mean, you had, what's his name from Inglorious Bastards is the German guy. Oh, yeah. Daniel Bruill. Yeah, Elizabeth Debicki was the blonde.

She was in, I mean, she was in Guardians of the Galaxy, but she was in that BBC show The Night Manager. um the the bald guy uh i can't remember his name but he was in silver lion's playbook yeah he's been in a bunch of stuff yeah the asian woman zang ye i think her name is or something like that i mean she's been in a bunch of crotching tiger and dragon hero you know like i was actually surprised at how how many of the cast members i knew um i don't know it seems like they spent a lot of money on who was in the movie and not the script but that's yeah there's uh a lot of a lot of really pseudoscience, and they're really focused on the minute details of the whole thing

instead of, you know, trying to maybe make something for the bigger picture of the Cloverfield universe, which is probably what they should have been doing. Uh-oh. I mean, it wasn't bad. It just wasn't great. Too bad, man.

Yeah. Well, got Netflix anyway. May as well watch it, right? was that was that all all you had for the cool week brian i watched a bunch of bullshit again i'm not even going to bring it up so horror horror is i'm sorry to say

so far in january or going into we're in february now is not really doing it for me right now we're not in the season i'm getting really i'm getting really nervous really fucking nervous this year that was gonna be one of mine to uh cloverfield paradox was I mean, it was kind of cool of the week.

I had to watch it twice because the first time, like if you missed that first half of the movie, it doesn't really make a whole lot of sense. And then even if you watch it, it still doesn't make a ton of sense, but it does what it does. I also, I watched a few episodes of the end of the effing world on Netflix.

It's interesting. Like, I kind of like it. It's really quirky. And I think I maybe, wish they kind of made a movie of it instead of a series, but I'll hold that judgment until the end of the series. But so far, it's, it's, it's holding my attention. It's, uh, kind of got a, a real indie dark feeling to it. Yeah, but it's fun. It's, it's interesting. I like it. Oh. Yeah, I thought about checking it out, man. I don't know. I've heard not so great things. Jack, have you seen it? No, not yet.

I don't know. Star Trek had a little bit more importance for me. Yeah, I know. As soon as you said Star Trek, every fucking time we do this podcast, I'm like, oh, shit, I got to watch Star Trek. And then I totally forget as soon as we're done. Yeah. Well, maybe this is your chance to check it out, man.

Yeah. Finally, the alcohol is a motherfucker. Hey, not to derail things, but you guys actually mentioned something that I want to ask you about while I was on here. Um, so, you know, Oscars are what they are, right? They don't really dictate quality of a movie, but, you know, you're talking about how this year so far horror hasn't been that great. Well, right now we have from obvious the last year, Get Out has been nominated for Best Picture. Now, say what you will about whether that's a horror movie or not, you know, whatever.

It's sort of in that camp. Sure. How do you guys feel about that? I mean, it's been a while since, I think, a legitimate horror, thriller, whatever. has gotten a best picture nomination. I mean, are you guys happy about that? Or do you kind of want it to stay like niche and sort of, you know, serving its specific audience?

No, I think we need more. Yeah, I think we need more Alfred Hitchcock's in the world, man. That's a, uh, that was, that was a pretty damn good horror movie and, and just a pretty damn good movie in general. And, uh, I wish they'd do more of that shit, you know? Nice. yeah i i'm gonna go out on a limb and say uh 2017 is has been my favorite year in film since uh since

1999 when the the matrix and the six cents and american beauty and bling john malcovitch yeah yeah yeah yeah election i mean 99 is the shit man yeah damn 99's amazing 2007 is the fucking shit yeah there's a couple years that what i don't know what was in the sauce but like They're just these fucking pockets of amazing fucking movies. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm worried about... 2018 is not off to a good start.

No, it's not. Very worried so far. But on the television front, maybe not so worried. You guys know how much I just gravitate towards stuff that's very polarizing. Sure. You either love it or you hate it. How far are you guys into altered carbon? I only watch.

as far as two episodes. I have not got back to it. I'm not yet. My fucking wife won't watch it. Have you checked any out yet, Jack? Not yet. It's definitely on the short list, though. All right. Well, I just, I'm up through number four, and four is far and away my favorite of all the episodes yet. And the reason that I love it is because I don't think there's any technology in it that's not going to be happening. guaranteed at some point. Because I think the way that they're presenting the technology is very logical.

I don't think it's real far out. Like you guys were talking about the pseudoscience with the paradox movie. I think it's all very believable. And then they had a twist that they introduced in the fourth one of where maybe some of the technology came from that gets you thinking, wow, that would really up the game. So I'm loving it, man, four episodes in. And the only reason I haven't finished it is because I really don't want to blow through all 10 too quickly. you know, I'm enjoying that much, and I really like watching an episode and then thinking about it for a couple of days. So, no, I think it's really good, hard science fiction. I'm loving it.

I really want to watch it. Like, that is on my, like, very first list of things to do. As soon as she goes to sleep, I'm watching it. Yeah, definitely cool of the week. Well, Brian, we got any news going on, man? last week we talked about the fourth movie which was going to be set in world war two apparently there's a fifth one that is already might be already made possibly or in the process of being made and a rumor is they've casted daisy ridley in this one what dinny will love that right jack it might love it a little too much

and they have said uh All future Cloverfield movies and the franchise will be in theaters. Hmm. So that's kind of kind of a little bit telling about the Cloverfield paradox. I think it was just kind of a little origin story that they may have thrown out there. I don't know. It feels like the whole Cloverfield part of it was just sort of thrown in at the last minute. Like it maybe started out as a different movie.

Yeah. So that's literally the case. because I don't know if you guys took too much of a deep dive on it, but the cast didn't even know that it was a Cloverfield movie until, like, a month ago. Yeah. Well, that makes sense. Yeah, because I guess what they did was the, because obviously the way that they filmed it,

nothing that happens in space has anything to do with Cloverfield at all. Like, it's called Cloverfield Station, but that's it. Right. So the scene. And they don't even really tell you that. Right. Exactly. But the scenes with the husband.

on Earth were re-shot to tie it into the Cloverfield stuff because really there are like only two references, right? I mean, when he first comes across the kid, he kind of sees like the shadow of something. Yeah. And the thing at the end.

But yeah, look, I'm kind of excited for Overlord because even when I first heard about that a couple years back, I think that the occult with the Nazis is just a criminally under fucking told story.

They were into some crazy shit. Raiders of the Lost Dark can just fucking punch it. Since Raiders, they haven't done too much in that vein. Yeah. That's why I'm excited about it. Exactly. Exactly. Like, I'm envisioning it's probably going to be like, I don't know, probably like D-Day, right? And a bunch of guys come across a town where they find some crazy Nazi experiments, right?

Like, that's got to be what it is. But I'm so fucking down to see that. Like, that sounds awesome. Well, except, I mean, not necessarily. spoil anything. They did sort of explain why it would be a World War II movie with the Cloverfield shit

in this one. Oh yeah? Which takes the Nazi experiments off the table. No. I know, right? And I'm I was really excited about it being in a Nazi experiment because like, I mean, I've read books about Nazi experiment. I'm not like real books,

like fiction books, but Nazi experiments that were cool as shit. And I was really hoping that the Cloverfield thing would, would flow that way. I'm like, okay, well, maybe it's like an origin story. Well, no, this was the origin story, and it kind of sucked. Yeah. Well, speaking of World War II, would you guys watch a World War II movie that had Chuckie in it, that had Chuckie in it?

Hell yeah. Why not? Yeah. How does that work? Don Mancini says he has an idea to put Chucky in a World War II setting. This is not... I only want it if I can get multiple Chuckies, like thousands of them. Right.

To replace... Their time traveling, Chucky's. Here's what I'm thinking. The Chucky dolls are the Nazi experiment, right? Yes. There's a lot. There's planned. Hitler's plan is to save the Aryan race

by using Chucky as a Nazi No way they don't give a fuck They'll just treat it like Russia Just keep throwing them at the enemy They're not fucking alive Who gives a shit? You know, eventually they'll be through On it, I'll fucking watch the shit out of it

Was Charles Lee Ray an Aryan or what? Was he a pure blood? You'd have to be. I did not see that coming. I did not see that coming. And then a dude. end of the movie, it's also a Cloverfield sequel.

Yes. Or it's a tie dad, one of those. Okay. Probably not with Chuckie. Lance, I think... Lance, I think you'll be happy about this. Don Mancini also is working on a Child's Play TV series.

I can't wait. Now, I'm more interested in. That I was sold until he said it's not going to be a reboot, but it's going to be a continuation from the movies. That's okay. What's okay? What's good for that? I was not a fan of that last one. I was.

Well, how much more off the rails can they get? I mean, it's Chuckie. Well, apparently he's going to World War II, so that's pretty fucking off the rails. David, uh, Kershner will be involved and it said Brad Duroff is returning as the voice. So,

nice. Well, we can ask him when we see him at Fright Mirror. Oh yeah. The whole original child's play cast will be there. Awesome. We got to get some sound bites from those. Yeah. Let's see here.

We talked about Matt Smith possibly playing Charles Manson in the Quentin Tarantino movie. Well, it wasn't for the Quentin Tarantino movie. It is for another Charles Manson movie called Charlie Says. Oh, come on.

Yep, this is coming from American Psycho director, Mary Heron. So he is attached to play that. And they've also casted Carla Gugino to play in the movie, too. Nice. Yeah, she hasn't directed too much since that. She did like some kind of a vampire movie at a girl school or something. And I think that's about it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, Jack. The American Psycho was like a classic. Yeah. Um, God, I hate to keep doing this. We keep doing sidebars here, but are you guys watching American crime story? No, I haven't, I haven't, you mean the Versace one? Yeah. Haven't, haven't seen that, but I've heard, I've heard good things.

Dude, it's American Psycho. Like, it's exactly what she was doing an American Psycho, in my opinion. The guy is fucking out of it, like, super scary, like, predatory fucking serial killer. Yeah. It's like, it's absolutely Patrick Bamingette. Bateman-esque. Like, it's... Does he listen to

Huey Lewis in the news? Well, he's in the 90s, so he's listening to, like, fucking good vibrations and stuff. You know what I mean? Like the fucking Marky Mark one. But, yeah, like, you guys really need to get on that.

Look, the Giani Versacee stuff, surprisingly, kind of takes a back seat to the serial killer. Like, the show is about the serial killer. Okay. It's really fucking good, though, and it's right in you guys' wheelhouse.

nice. Yeah, yeah, I'm going to check that out. Yeah, for sure. It looks amazing, too. I mean, it's one of the best-looking shows on TV right now, I think. Well, they did. That was the same American crime story that did the, like, the OJ thing, right? Yeah, and I think a lot of people assumed that was going to be another courtroom thing, but it's not. It's like the fucking trials and tribulations of a serial killer. And the latest episode was like one of the most chilling fucking things I've seen in

a long time, especially on TV. So, man, I got to check it out. Because I loved, I loved the OJ season. I loved it. It's got the same, like, sort of ironic, shitty wigs and bad hairdo, and bad makeup. You know what I mean? Like, it's just, it's like slightly exaggerated, but it fucking works really well in that show. But I'm telling you, I've never seen this guy in anything else, and he is fucking lights out.

It's really good. I mean, it's only four episodes at the moment, so it could definitely go downhill at any time. but so far I would yeah it's one of the best things I've seen this year so far fuck man something else I got to add to the docket I know right there's a lot of good TV on right now

it really is Waco's great too I don't know if you guys tapped into that yeah I can't take Taylor Kish his favorite favorite actor in there as much as I love Michael Shannon I hate Taylor Kish so it's really tough for me man you're all kinds of down on Dane DeHon huh

hey he can play the part better. I'll say this. If you have a problem with Taylor Kitch, I totally get it. I think that a couple years ago, studios made a mistake trying to put him in like every big name movie. Right. And they just didn't work out because they weren't the right thing.

But man, this show, if he was used like this from the beginning, not, like, granted, this show he's the focus. I mean, he's David Koresh. He's the main character. But if they had found roles like this for him instead of making him, instead of making him John Carter or, you know, the lead in battleship or any of that other bullshit, the guy could have developed into a much better actor,

but I feel like this is his, like, second chance to kind of rate the ship. Man, he destroyed savages for me, man. Yeah. See, I like savages. All right, well, God damn it. Another one I got to give a chance to, huh? Yeah.

Mike Flanagan, who recently just did Gerald's game is writing and directing the shining sequel, Dr. Sleep. Yeah. I think that's a great, great choice. Do you guys think this will go to Netflix or? I think it has to do it, right? I mean, it seems like it's set up for that.

Flanagan's been doing a lot of Netflix shit lately, hasn't he? Yeah. Stephen King, man, has had more movies come out in the last year than his entire career. Netflix is the perfect place for a guy like Stephen King's story. So his audience is always going to buy his next book, right? Like, it doesn't matter. I don't know any Stephen King fan who hasn't read. If they read Stephen King, they read every one of his books, you know.

So if you know that there's another movie and it's a Stephen King movie, it's coming out on Netflix, same guy who made the last one, even if you just kind of like the last one, I feel like odds are you going to tap into it, you know? Yeah, why not? And the last thing we're going to talk about is we're going to get a second Star Wars trilogy. And this is going to come from Game of Thrones creators David Binaught, if I'm saying that right, and D.B. Weiss. I'm putting my hands in the air and saying amen right now. Y'all can't see it. Okay.

Look, the more Star Wars, the better for me. Yeah, I'm cool with that, but I don't know how Patrick's going to feel, man. He's been a resident Star Wars hater lately. Well, Disney Star Wars, people don't like that idea. But Disney Marvel apparently is okay. Hmm. Okay. Yeah. Nah.

I think it's too much, you know. I mean, I just, I don't know, man. I'm down, you know, I'm going until they give me reason not to. but at the same time, it's like, I don't know, Star Wars used to feel a lot more special, you know, and it just, I don't know, if you get one a year, it just feels like they're watering it down to me. It's not such an event anymore, is it?

I just want them to contribute to the bigger universe. That's my thing, yeah. If they do something to contribute to the overall story, in every movie, they have to do that. So go ahead. I was going to say, since we're getting two new trilogies and then we're also still getting standalone movies,

are they going to move it up to two movies a year? I mean, that's got to be the goal, right? Wow. I mean, Ryan Johnson, at the game with their ones, guys. Yeah, I think Marvel's a bad comparison, though. And unfortunately, everything's trying to be Marvel, but, I mean, obviously, you know,

you think of that right away. because it's established universe and cinematic universe. It's what everybody wants to do, right? But Marvel, you know, look at Iron Man, right? Iron Man comes out. They focus, and this was the same summer as the Dark Night. So it's impressive when you think of that. Because Iron Man came out in May.

Dark Night was like June or July. And somehow both of those movies were able to coexist in the same time space, right? Yeah, now was that 2007? Is that what you were referring to earlier? That was actually 2008. Okay, well, that was a damn good year then. It was. It was. But what's interesting about Iron Man is that there is nothing to tease anything beyond Iron Man until the very end credits.

Like, clearly after, you know, they started making sequels, they had stuff that they could draw from, and they kind of organically went in different directions. Yeah, of course. But, like, they focused on telling you a good story to start. They never took for granted the storytelling in service of whatever came next, right? Yeah, good point. Good point. So it's not like the greenlit Iron Man and also Greenlit Iron Man 2 and the Avengers and Thor, right?

They made Iron Man. They made that well. Then they started thinking about Incredible Hulk, I think, was the same year, actually, now that I'm thinking about it, because Tony Stark shows up in that. That was pretty bad, though. It was. it was but but you know they built it right movie by movie

and kind of built their brand and now it's to the point where every Marvel movie is a pseudo sequel of the one that came before it but they can also be their own stories right so my problem with Star Wars right now is the same problem I have with Wonder Woman because

Wonder Woman was an origin story after we already saw Wonder Woman for the first time and knew that we were going to see her again like five months later right so who gives a fuck what happens in her origin. Like, who cares? We already know where this character ends up. There's nothing to tell. Like, there's no urgency. She's obviously going to beat the bad guy. She's obviously going to survive. Like, those are off the table, those options.

Well, that's in any comic book character, really. Sort of. But at least there's a suspension of disbelief when I walk into a fresh Batman movie. Well, that's an example because they've shit on Batman for a few years now. But like, you know, Black Panther, right? I can assume that Black panther is probably going to get out of it, but I don't know anything about his other characters. I don't know when this story takes place. Like, I feel like there are elements there that they can kind of work with, right? What is Star Wars done?

Star Wars made The Force Awakens. Decent movie, derivative, but decent movie. You know, no criticism there, really. Then they go to Rogue One. Rogue one, cool concept. Last third of the movie is phenomenal. First two thirds are kind of met for me. But it's all about what came before.

establishing the shit that you already know, right? Okay. Last Jedi comes along, a movie that is obsessed to the fucking T with doing what you don't think is going to happen to the point where I personally think that the narrative suffers very much in that movie. From the twist, sir?

Just a lot of pieces of that movie don't make any sense. But, you know, I understood. I did a whole three-hour podcast on that if you guys want to jump into it at some point. I'm binge, but what's the next movie that's coming out? Solo. have to learn about the origin of Han Solo?

I mean, what are we doing? Like, how many times do we have to keep going back to the shit that we already know? Sure. To, like, tell us why we should like it. Like, don't fucking tell me why I should like this. I already like it. Move on. Give me something new.

Yeah. You know, you know, he's going to do the Kessel Run, right? I mean, of course, the ship is different. So, like, they got to fucking explain what happened to the ship, right? They got to fucking explain it. Yeah. Yeah. Landau had a card game, right?

It's like, I already know what this movie is. Like, stop, you know. So I just have issues with Star Wars not taking a step forward and not, you know, Ryan Johnson talked about how the Last Jedi was supposed to be this bold move in a different direction to keep Star Wars relevant, right? But then they just rested on the laurels of what they always do in that movie to do the exact same thing all the other Star Wars movies do. So it's either

shit or get off the pot. Do something different or fucking don't. But like I don't know. I don't know. I don't want to get into a ton of Star Wars stuff on you guys, but like I got some pretty, I got some issues with that. All right. Well, uh, see, and I'm, I'm okay with them.

I got, I got to interject. I'm okay with them going into the past because, uh, I like I'm expanding. That's in my mind, I'm excited about the things that they are doing in the past. I kind of want them to go further into the past, like more into the origin of the Jedi's and all that shit.

I hope that they get there. And at first I was thinking, ah, Han Solo, who cares? We already know what his story is. But after seeing the preview for the movie, I'm like, ah, this will be a cool story. Is it going to be an integral part of the Star Wars? universe, probably not so much.

It's more of a standalone movie, kind of like Rogue One was. But being that standalone movie, they're not constricted to as much stuff as say The Last Jedi was. So I think that maybe they can do with that

what they did with Rogue One and hopefully make a kick-ass movie. Hope so. Yeah, actually I kind of like the way that Rogue went in. and the way it did seamlessly tie into the next film, even though I didn't think they were going to do that that seamlessly, but I kind of enjoyed it.

Oh, I didn't think they were either, but yeah, it worked. Is that the news, Brian? Yeah, I was going to say, we should just go ahead and get to the trailer park. We're already getting there, boys. We're going to make a Star Wars podcast. Sorry, Brian. It's all right. Yeah, well, that was me too.

A lot of our Star Wars podcast are pretty heavily downloaded, so you may have a point there. Well, hashtag the fuck out of this thing. All right, Jack, we're going to ask you to slum with us a little bit, man. Because we take it a little trip down to the trailer part. Brian, can I guess what our first new trailer might be to talk about, or should we just skip that one? I mean, do you guys have anything else to say about Solo?

Oh, yeah, I guess we did. As far as what you've seen in the trailer. I'm excited about the trailer. I wasn't excited about the movie until I saw the trailer. Oh, boy. Well, that's Philop for you. Yeah. Okay.

I mean, Donald Glover looks like just the most fucking swab-ass pimp I've ever seen in my life. Right. Lando as a motherfucker. He's pulling it off. Can we just have the Landau movie? I feel like that's the way better R-rated movie that I want, personally. Yeah.

That would be amazing. Just Slanpoon, you know, alongside our buddy G. Right. feeling right to stuff. Sure. All right. Solo, coming out

May 25th. All right. Everybody else think it's weird that that's going to be competing with Infinity War in the same month? It does seem kind of odd, doesn't it?

Yeah, bad idea. Especially from the same fucking studio. I feel like it's going to get pushed. Yeah, and I guess we'll get into this trailer here,

which comes out May 18. Deadpool 2. Yes. I love that trailer, man. Fuck yeah. Cable looks fucking badass, man. Yes, he does.

I know. I'm more excited about this than anything. Yeah, I know you are. That was your number one movie from two years ago, man. It was. Deadpool was amazing. It was a film masterpiece, I feel like. Jack, what do you think about that?

Put it this way. I'm a big fan. Toy Story, and I love Woody. Like, he's just my shit. Right. Did you see the Wade on the bottom of his foot? Yeah, dude. That was so fucking awesome. Yeah,

I mean, how can you not be in for this movie unless you're, you know, just a fucking asshole, really? I mean, this movie's probably going to have everything you want in it, plus a little more. Yeah. I mean, it's fucking Deadpool. Why? Anybody who doesn't like Deadpool and they'll

fuck themselves? and Philip we got a Superman mustache reference I know I rewound it to show my wife because I started laughing and she's like What the fuck you're laughing about? And I'm like, did you not understand what happened just now? So just on a pure like film level I am going to be interested to see how they're able to juggle

Deadpool being snarky With I feel like cable is going to be pretty straight Yeah, but you need that. man you always have to the straight man and the good comedy act you know for sure but i hope that there's a i hope it's it's done well i hope it's justified you know what i mean yeah well we'll find out man we'll find out soon enough you know you're going to be there with with uh i i think the the way that they pulled it during the first movie i i think that they're they're going to do it well i mean have have you played the game it's pretty fucking yeah yeah yeah

Yeah, like I said, Deadpool 2, May 18. I'm going to move on to our next one, which is going to be HBO's Westworld season two. Kanye in the background. Do you catch that? Yeah. No. What? Kanye?

For real? Yeah. A little version of one of his songs. The song that they had playing up. Okay, I thought he popped in the show. I'm looking for a... I am a genius. You're a fucking robot.

Sit down. Yeah, we're all looking forward to it, you know. I wasn't that impressed with the... It was more of a teaser, really. Yeah. You know, it was hard for me to tell exactly what was going on. I want him to go outside the universe of Westworld, like the movies did, where they go to, like, future world. And, like, at the end of that where they had the samurai, all the samurai swords.

and the Japanese armor and everything. I want to see that world, you know? Well, they kind of teased that in the finale last season. So I feel like they may do that this season. This trailer got me excited about it again because I had kind of forgotten, you know? It's been a while since West World was out. Yeah.

And at first I was like, yeah, well, whatever. The Western stuff, robots, okay, cool. And then, you know, they showed like the bull attacking the guy and then like the the eye robot looking dude that was attacking the other guy. And I was like, okay, robots taking over. This shit's going to happen. Like, I mean, we already got sex robots on the way. I'm telling you, it's only a matter of time.

It may not be in my lifetime that the robots take over, but it will be in my lifetime that they have a really kick-ass sex robot. And I'm sure at some point, I plan on experiencing that. It's going to happen. I'm just saying. You know what I think should be a requirement for using one of those things? Just as like a term of liability, they present you two versions of the robot, right? One, completely decked out the way that you want it, right? And the other one, without the skin on it, just the gears. And let's see how many people decide to stick their fucking dick in that thing. I'm just saying.

We'll put the skin back on it and then you're okay. Good to go, huh? A lot of cogs, man. A lot of gears. Clockwork angels, huh? There you go. It's bad enough we all have to deal with a zipper on the reg is all I'm saying, you know? People still fuck that. How did you get the beams above the Frank?

Westworld's season two, April 22nd. All right. And our last trailer, which was kind of just dropped out of nowhere, Venom starring Tom Hardy. It can drop back. Really? Yeah. Really?

Okay. One thing that I didn't like off top was the accent he's using, the voice. He kind of sounds like Terrence Howard. Was that his though, or was that somebody who was talking? to him. I believe that was him. Yeah, I think it was him. I think he's got like a, I think he's trying to do like a California accent maybe.

I don't know. Weird for a guy. Yeah, I fucking didn't like this trailer at all. You have a movie called Venom in a trailer. It doesn't have Venom in it. Right. What's up for that? Okay. That's my problem. Is that going to be the movie? Like, it's venom but not venom? Oh, I hope

not. Cloverfield But this is another example of like a studio just being fucking stupid Right? Like, why does Venom matter without Spider-Man? Like they're talking about all these Joker movies they want to make. If Batman's not in the Joker movie, go fuck yourself. Like that's why he's there is to fight Batman.

Like if you don't have that, you don't fucking get the character, man. You know? Like, I don't get it. I don't get this fucking movie. Yeah, I hear you, man. I hear you all the way, dude. I don't either. Tom Hardy and it gives me a lot of hope.

I think that he's a great actor, man. I think that he can pull this off. And it depends on how they do it, though. If it's some goofy fucking CGI venom because they haven't showed you venom yet, then it's going to suck. But hopefully, I mean, if they've got the money to pull Tom Hardy, hopefully they've got the money to put into some CGI stuff that's actually worth the shit.

I think the story is going to be all jumbled, though, because there's rumors that Tom Holland's going to make a cameo in this movie. Oh, no, no, no, no, no. Well, because they're supposed to be friends, right? Peter Parker and whatever his name is. That's how it started. So they were buddies or whatever at first. I'm okay with that.

I'm even okay with the standalone Venom movie. I mean, if they pull out big guns like Tom Hardy. When were they buddies? Because isn't Tom Holland in Spider-Man in the MCU supposed to be like 15 years old? He means it in the comic books. Well, yeah, in the comic book, that's a good point. That might be a little bit of pull off. Yeah.

Well, I'm sure they'll figure out a way to justify that stuff. You know, I mean, little plot holes are not my thing. I think it's Sony just fucking shit up again. Yeah, just throwing it out here as quick as they can. Well, we know Monica from the Padded Room podcast is going to be seeing it, just because Tom Hardy's in it. Yeah. She'd watch Tom Hardy painting a wall or something, you know?

Well, we're getting Venom here this year, October 5th. Yeah. All right. Have fun, guys. Oh, shit, Brian. Wait a minute. Right around Halloween season. I think they're going to go, maybe not horror,

but it's going to be a very tense movie, I think. Yeah, on that note, that is our last trailer. Oh, boy. I'm not sold on the trailer. I'm not sold on the movie. All right. And now my favorite part of the show, Philip, do we got any feedback this week, man?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've got a bunch of feedback. Hey, Jack, real quick, you brought up the standalone on Joker movie. How do you feel about Joaquin Phoenix possibly playing the role? Yeah. I don't know, man.

Good actor. Yeah. I mean, dude, Todd Phillips is supposed to be directing that. Get the fuck out of here. Are you kidding me? You're giving the fucking, why is there a Joker movie? Like, why? Why? I just, I can't even, I can't even get, like, close to

answering how do I feel about Joaquin Phoenix because I can't even fucking believe that the people who are working on that movie are working on it. It blows my fucking mind. That's got to be a joke, dude. You went from, like, you went from, fuck it.

I can't, I can't do it, man. I could just tell for like two hours on a podcast. Maybe it'll be as good as suicide squad. How about this? What is his name from the room? Tommy wants to be, yeah, he wants to be the Joker.

Oh, what? Way better. Way better. Way better. The crazy guy from the room? Yeah. Oh, wow.

I can see it all right now, you know. Yeah, why I saw serious, Greg? Why? Everything going right on my, Greg. You do. Bruce.

Everything goes right on my and Bruce. Ouch. That was, all right. That. That was amazing. I love that idea now. You may see it.

All right. Listener feedback. We got quite a bit today. Regarding a quiet place, Ryan Stevens says it's a cool concept. I hope it won't end up being a snooze fest like it comes at night. Agreed. There you go.

Yeah. Check out Jen's review of the Hauntars. Jeans. Oh, my bad. there's a missing e. Check out Gene's review of the Hunters. The Art of Scare

on our group page. The movie explores extreme haunted houses in America. Oh, fucking definitely. We got to check that out this year. Big time extreme. No, you don't want to check this one out, Philip. Oh, well, oh, that was

like to pick you up and throw you in a coffin shit, right? That's the one. Yeah, well, if you get a chance to watch the review, because Gene, they're all on YouTube. He doesn't have a podcast. I don't think that you can subscribe to, but he does the YouTube videos. And he was talking about

one where they don't even have a fucking safe word. And they throw like goat's blood on you and they handcuff you and some people it takes up the three hours to get through the haunted house. Fuck that shit. That's like asking an asswoman.

Fuck it. We've got to do it. All right. It'll be an adventure. It's fun. About Joaquin Phoenix, possibly playing the Joker, which we talked about. Mikey Troma. Mikey Tromitras says he's a great method actor. I think he could surprise us all.

Jack, what are you thinking, man? Oh, wait, you already told us what you're thinking. Yeah. He can't get past the whole movie being made. Fucking make another good Batman movie before he fucking talk to me about a Joker. cock suckers. Fucking athlete. And I was really, I was really looking forward to

Affleck too. Fuck. Fucking assholes. Oh my God. Regarding Amazon's upcoming Conan series, Ryan Stevens Hall says, yes.

Art Callie says I'm highly interested in this myself. Can't be too bad. Regarding Winchester, Benez. says, for the Bay Area Pimp that I am, this film gets an eight. Oh, my God. He gives everything an eight.

He likes some weird stuff, man. He reviewed something with us last week, and he said, this movie sucks, and this was terrible, eight. He's the anti-Garrett, Jack. I don't know if I could handle the anti-Garret. Sorry. KF, we love you. Of course we do. South Bay is cool with me.

Patrick Clear says I'll have to go see it. I suppose I have to have something for this year's bottom five. It's already getting some stiff competition, though. Yeah, no, check out the January movies. Patrick Clearer says, from here on, whenever Lance mentions Dane DeHan should star in something, I'm going to counter with Jason Clark.

Oh, fuck you. you're the fuck out of here, Patrick. Oh, boy. I'd say they're on the same level. Regarding solo, the Star Wars story, Lars from Denmark, says, looks awesome.

What a great surprise. I want to be a space gangster. I'm very serious. Thought it would be funny. Solo looks great. I'm in. Oh, he's in. Patrick Lear says,

if it totally sucks, Star Wars fans will only see it three times in the theaters each. Shit, that he mentions it. I kind of want to be a space gangster, too. Yeah, I know, right? Fucking A. The Strangers Pray at Night. Melissa Stevens says, I am so curious about this movie because of the first one, because the first one is probably my favorite horror film of all time.

Wow. Check that out. Strong words, huh? Yeah. Adam Falkington, Falkingham says, did you see, did you guys see Wade wearing chunk shirt from the Goonies in the new Deadpool trailer? Yeah, that is. I think he's sitting on the couch with the blind lady. Oh, okay, okay, okay, I got you at the very end.

He says, ha-ha, if we see cable riding a pink bike with training wheels in the film, I will laugh my ass off. That's cool. Chunk from the Goonies. I'm digging it. Nice. Check out the horror mafia's newest podcast in our group.

The Dead Will Rise. Our boys, Donnie Rings, Big Bill, and Baby Joey fight off the dead in the boxes specially selected triple dose of zombie films. Not only do they welcome Tanya as an official

full-time co-host. They also spread the brains in a full-on antipasto that will set the mood for their undead shenanigans. Pass the schnaps and a second helping of intestines with this one.

All right. More comments on altered carbon. Sounds good, man. Grigario Mirren just saw the first episode and it is my cup of tea here. A lot of similarities with Ghost in the Shell

and other futuristic dystopian animas. We'll watch more of it. Ryan Stevens. The first review on IMDB is titled To Those Who Read Books. This makes me laugh because I have never heard of this series before Netflix. Okay. Regarding extremely wicked, shockingly evil and vile.

Cynthia Talbot says I was hoping Jim Parsons was going to be the character of Ted Bundy. he would make a creepy villain he would but I think Ted Bundy was supposed to be a little more suave than that, huh? Total sidebar Have you guys ever watched

the Ted Bundy movie? Uh-uh. Oh wait, wait, wait, wait, I think I did. Who was in that? Wasn't it just called Bundy or something like that? I think it was originally called Bundy. I think if you look at up on IMDB

it comes up as Ted Bundy, but it's, it's it's super shitty maybe i hammond then it's super shitty it's super shitty it's super shitty but it's also fucking hilarious like they don't know how to deal with him being suave and also murdering women so it just comes across as like awkward soap opera but it's really uh yeah it's it's good for like a it's like the room it's kind of in that mean i'm a little excited about this new one coming out man I totally expect it to be horrible. I hope that it's good.

I hope I'm wrong. Let's see. Talking about the Netflix movie Bushwick, Chad Eric Dukowitz says The binge crew reviewed this a bit ago and it failed to mention how it's also like a long follow shot the entire film, which was interesting,

as it was almost like real time. There you go. That's for you. I'll bring it to the bosses. Jim Kupka says Kupka. Kupka. I'm going to text of that right now.

You're recording this, right, Jack? All right, so Jim Kupka. All right, so Jim Kupka says this right here, just moved up in the docket. I love shit like that. Also, Aesop Rock did the soundtrack. Alex and Sierra gave it a positive rating.

Did you listen to this show? He said, did you listen to the show? We're going so far off the rails here. Jack, you got a lot of stuff to take back, man. I'm taking notes. It's far from great, but like Lance said, fun way to kill an hour and a half. Yep.

That's how I would get. It's a fun movie. Have you seen it, Jack? It's on Netflix, Bushwick. Not yet, man. Batista. Yeah, it's fine. It's a fun movie.

It's a fun movie. No, it's awesome, dude. They're in, without spoiling too much, they're in a Bushwick, which I guess is a neighborhood in Brooklyn, New York, and just weird shit starts going on. And it is pretty much all in real time. And they come,

come to find out that some kind of militant group is coming and invading. It's a fun little movie, man. It really is, yeah. I think you'll like it. It moves super fast, too. It's like over with before you even know it, you know? Gotcha. Yeah, check it out.

Regarding it stains the sand red, this is one that I really want to see. I think Brian saw it this week. Yeah, I did. Did you? It was good? Yeah, it's pretty good. How was that? not your cool, Luick?

I don't know. I'm so overwhelmed with all the other bullshit I've seen. You got a lot of movies. Yeah, but I don't know if it would have been in my top ten from last year, but it's decent. It's pretty good. Yeah. Okay.

Well, Don and Ellie says, awesome. I want to hear what you guys have to say about this one. One of my top ten favorites of the year. Ryan Stevens says this was one of my top five of the year. Very good film. And it's a shame it hasn't gotten much press. so sounds like it's getting a lot of love from our peeps yeah

and the movie that just keeps on giving Kudoku Meatball Machine I still haven't seen it I really want to watch it Jack Jack have you seen that one man Not yet Watch the preview at least Yeah yeah yeah yeah

You guys mentioned it didn't you I'm pretty sure I heard it Yeah yeah yeah yeah Yeah we've mentioned it So Patrick watched it He says, I watch this movie tonight. I have to say it's insanely over the top. Overall, though, I actually liked it.

And it's all in ridiculousness. It also has the missing gratuitous topless scenes. So it has that going for it as well. Seven out of ten for enjoyment factor. I may have to go watch the first movie now. Hey, you had me a gratuitous topless scene. regarding the possible new Star Wars movies being created by Game of Thrones television creators Patrick of course had something to say about that he says

I hope they aren't expecting George R.R. Martin to write it boy. Ryan Steven says Ryan Johnson's the worst. The G.O.T. crew will probably do a much. better job. Ouch. All right. I'll take that.

I hope they do. That's it for listener feedback this week. Thanks to everyone who reaches out to us. We love the feedback. As always, you can reach us at our Facebook or Podbean page. Or you can email us directly at

the horror returns at gmail.com or reach us at any of the social media's, Instagram, Twitter, any of that junk. Tumblr. We have a Tumblr. We'd love to hear from you, leave us a review on iTunes

because we need you to help us. Help me help you. And that's it for listener feedback. All right, cool. So now finally, it's time for our featured attraction. We're going to take

a deep dive into the cult classic, the prisoner. Once again, we are going to spoil the finale. But not until the very end, because our main goal here is to turn people onto the show that haven't seen it before. So definitely not going to give much of a spoiler. Okay. Well, we'll talk about that later. But a little bit, as we always start with a little opening trivia, the creator was Patrick

McGuin himself, the guy who plays number six in the series. He was also known for Danger Man and he wrote several episodes of Columbo. In case you guys didn't know that. Hey, Lance. Yeah. Let me throw something in for people who might not know. The thing that a lot of people know Patrick McGuhan from is actually Braveheart. I don't know if you guys remember, Edward the Longshanks, the bad guy, you know, the evil king of England. He's, that's Patrick McGuhan. So when he's being a fucking bastard in that movie is the same guy.

You know, all those great lines like, you know, do the horos, sir. And he's like, yes, but look at those as well. I don't know. I have to go back and check that out, man. I know, me too. I haven't seen Braveheart in forever. Yeah, that was, when I first saw this, I was like, oh, that guy's really familiar.

And then my mom actually told me, she's like, yeah, he's this guy. I was like, that makes sense. So there you go. So a lot of people might know him from Braveheart. Cool. All right. The butler, played by Maltese actor, Angela Muscat, never speaks. And he actually appears in more episodes than anyone else,

except, of course, McGoo and himself. On several occasions, plans were made to adapt. The Prisoner Day feature film. McGowan once considered filming a sequel that took place 100 years after the TV series. I don't know how that would work. A movie was announced in 2001 with Magooan as executive producer

and Simon West as director. Oh. It was shelved. It was shelved by 2002. Okay, Jack, you're going to like this one, man. Christopher Nolan was reported to be considering a film version in 2009, but later dropped out of the project.

The producer Barry Mendel said a decision to continue with the project depended on the success of the TV miniseries in 2006, which of course we all know sucked. And final piece of trivia, this was actually ranked number seven in a TV guides list of the top 25 cult shows ever. Yeah, that's fair. So, yeah, a lot of things we can talk about here, but instead of going to, like, episode by episode, guys, if you guys are cool with it, I thought we just maybe cover some of the overall themes and some of our personal theories, and then maybe just each mention our favorite episode. Will that work? Yeah, sure, yeah.

What do you guys think is the overarching theme of the series? Like, start to finish, what's the most important point? Damn the man. Well, yeah, you got it, man. we let our guests go first but Jack, it's up to you, man. You want to jump in? Yeah. I mean, it's pretty clear that the show is all,

it's just, you know, about what freedom is. Like freedom of choice, conformity versus non-conformity. I mean, you know, this show came out in a time when, you know, the Beatles were just hitting the Ed Sullivan show, the sexual revolution was happening. and this was a kind of a I mean part of the reason why it didn't last very long is because this show was just so fucking way ahead of its time for what it was doing um you know when you compare it to the conventional shit that was on TV at the time like you know the Avengers not the Marvel Avengers the fucking Emma Emma Peel and in what's his name um and you know macuans other show Danger Man I mean I'm in America they had what like we were we were beyond I love Lucy but you know

Happy Days hadn't come along yet, but, you know, 60s television was what it was. What about like, like, uh, bewitched and, uh, yeah, I dream a genie, wasn't that kind of in the same time? Yeah. I mean, I just think that this show was trying to,

whereas American TV by and large was viewed as a product to sell things via commercials, this show was like, one of the earliest examples I can think of, of somebody taking a concept and making that story and that theme the concept instead of the show being the product, if that makes sense? Well, yeah.

It's done all the time now. Right, right. Like the show is almost like the shell with which they're having this grand conversation about the identity of the self and a lot of deep psychological ideas. So I don't know. I think that that's the core of it, you know? What are you made of, kind of? And what does that mean?

And what's it worth to hang on to, you know? Not so family-friendly. It's more art. Exactly. Yeah, Brian, what do you think about that concept? I mean, do you think he was really an individual? I mean, do you think that, did you catch anything early that ended up happening in the, in the finale? or were you kind of surprised by all that at the end?

I mean, were you kind of expecting one of the twists or not? No, I didn't. That finale was, that was a crazy episode right there. Crazy is good word for you. I have a quick question for you guys. Throughout the episodes, did any of the episodes run like one story run into the next episode or was it just kind of because I wasn't sure if

because I had to seek other means to watch this show. Not really. And I kind of was confused because one episode will go to one thing and go to another. And I wasn't sure if that's how the show went or. It was just confusing.

It was just a confusing show. The only one that I saw that ran into the next one were those last two. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, I think for the most part they're pretty isolated. I mean, it was different.

It was more of a different, different TV than we have now, you know. Yeah. Yeah. There was an episode where at the end of the episode, number two changed, and it was a woman. And then I went into the next episode, and that wasn't the number two. And I was, I didn't know. So, you're not missing anything. Okay.

You're probably, that could be, you could be a victim of the fact that this show has three, different um like style uh or uh orders to the episodes so so there's the original airing and then there's like there's another timeline at by which you can watch it lance you might know better than i would because i didn't look up what the other one was yeah my understanding is that there was the original uh british airing and then the american airing uh moved some of the episodes around and then magooan actually came out several years after that from what I understand and said, you know, actually this is the episode, this is the order you should watch the episodes in. And, you know, like there were

some way toward the end that were like second and third in his list. So, you know, I mean, it was just kind of, regardless of what order you watch it, and I think as long as you watch your rival first, and I think as long as you watch, you know, the final two in the order that they're in once upon a time in fall out, then I think you're good. I think you're pretty good as long as you. Because TV was a lot different back then. It wasn't like Breaking Bad, you know, where you literally have a cliffhanger. And at the beginning of the next episode, you know, you've got the same guy holding the gun

and what happens next, you know? Yeah, they're all pretty standalone with the same concepts. Most of them end up with the same, like, they kind of reset themselves at the end. Right. And speaking of which, speaking of which. Speaking of which. Gilling's Island with James Bond. Yeah, kind of like the original Star Trek series, you know?

Very episodic, but also very, you know, gets you to do some deep thinking. Why do you guys think they kept changing number two? I mean, so that kind of depends on what you feel is going on in the show, right? because I don't know how to talk about this without getting into spoilers really, but like if you believe that he's, they're trying to crack him, that like somebody's trying to crack him. Right.

That I think it's just you have to accept the fact that whoever is controlling number two, like they're just throwing absolutely everything they have at him, right? Yeah. So that's a good point. Yeah. So like at every moment he's meant to feel disorienting. disoriented and confused just to catch them off guard, to get in any edge they can at any moment. Definitely comes across.

They're confused and things like that. It's a very confusing show to watch. I always thought my theory was that number two was like the ultimate tool, just absolutely disposable. Obviously, their life could end at any moment, their job. could end at any moment. You know, they're just there to be the tool, just the device, and that's it. And I thought that that's kind of like how society's kind of set up with a lot of these people that are, quote, unquote, in power, you know, and they think power.

And, you know, it all twists around at the end, of course, in the final, the episode, we keep skirting around, but we say we're not going to talk about until the end. But I don't know, that was kind of the way I saw it. Like, it did totally disposable. I did get that, though, because there was always a sense of desperation. to achieve their goal. Sure. Yeah.

Kind of like the upper management douchebag at your office that's always fucking nervous that he's going to lose his job tomorrow, you know? Yeah. Right. I mean, I even liked how, like, it just seemed like a scare tactic to me, right, by whoever's in control, because even when you try to start figuring out, okay, they're going to change number two every episode, then they throw in a curveball and it's like, oh, one of the number two is actually going to be there for a while.

You know, so like, yeah, you're just always off balance. I always, the first time I watched it, it was weird, but the more times I watched this series, the more I kind of appreciate that stuff. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, I had actually never watched it before. And I kind of loved it, and it still holds up. I kind of hope that they don't make a remake of it. This was pretty amazing, and I'd love to go back and watch it again. I mean, it's got a whole lot of influence on things that have come out.

Now, Austin Powers, I'm sure, got pulled a bunch of shit from this. But it's, I mean, it was kind of amazing. It was really trippy. You never really know what's going on from one episode to the next, but they're all sort of standalone episodes, and they all sort of play on the same theme of, So he resigns from whatever sort of spy agency, and then he goes to this spy retirement community, not by choice, because they put him there, and then he is a prisoner. Yeah, they literally gassed him.

Yeah. And they show you that in every opening episode, which I thought was kind of cool. They just remind you of why he's here and what's happening. And then so every episode he tries to find a way off the island, Gilligan's Island style. and somehow ends up reset back on the island at the end of it until the last couple of episodes where they sort of finalize everything. So not to go off on another tangent, but it seems to be what we're doing tonight. But so you were just talking about the influence of this show, right, on Austin Powers. And, you know, obviously there are a lot of tropes, I think, that they use in the prisoner that we've seen in a ton of shows since then.

Absolutely. The reason that I found this show in the first place was actually because of the end of Lost. Right. I knew we were going to go there. Yeah. It's James Bond, Gilligan's Island in a lost setting. That's the show. So the problem I had with Lost, and not that we need to rehash this again, but Lost was obsessed with this.

this like overarching mystery and adding stuff to the mystery and keep like prognosticating questions right that's super top heavy didn't it well it just it never had an under a story underneath there for you to like learn anything about or or for like any of the characters to do anything right like it was always you know uh you ask a question in that show and it just all it does is you get more and more questions with no answer to anything. Mystery for the sake of mystery. Where's the beef? Right.

And Philip, you were just saying, the prisoner, every episode opens reminding you of what happened and why he's there, right, and his main goal. So when you have a story

about somebody who has one central idea and goal and they represent something, you can have these other mysteries as long as the story isn't the mystery. The story is, is the prisoner getting out, escaping, right? An unnamed secret agent from MI6 resigns. Somebody puts him in this village,

and he has to escape, and that's his one goal. So you can work with these mysteries, right? Like, swap out to Smoke Monster for the Rover, right? And then it starts to look pretty similar. But this show, to me, was just a much better, use of like a sci-fi concept such as you know keeping somebody prisoner somewhere

and then working within that you know what I mean yeah so that yeah because I know that Lance we didn't mention it at the beginning but you and I have been talking about this series and show for like a couple of years now wanting to do this podcast and it seems like a very random pull when you think about it it's like how the fuck

would anybody even find this thing right now right? But yeah, it's... It's on YouTube, by the way. Yeah, there you go. But, but yeah, it's a great... It's great. And I'm glad that...

I'm glad that we have the opportunity to do this shit. So, sorry, I didn't want to take an engine, but, you know... Oh, no, dude. Yeah, yeah, that totally makes sense. Because... And it, like, I didn't... It didn't even click as more of a spy thing to me

until towards the end of the series. Like, at first, it was more of just a sci-fi thing. Like, there's not really a whole lot of spy thing. concepts, you know, until you know, judo chop comes in and he starts having to beat up bad guys. But yeah, man,

check out Ginger Cat on YouTube. Whoever the hell that is has all the episodes, go check it out. It is totally worth watching. I loved it, man. As

going back and I'm not huge on like old 60 shit like some of it is okay right I get but some of it doesn't really hold up this one actually really holds up it was really fun to watch like I really enjoyed it

I went back and watched it and I was like man this movie is or this show is really kick ass and I wanted to keep watching episodes and episodes I watched all 17 in the period of like you know a week so they sort of ran together for me

Maritining it, man. Yeah. But it was still, man. It was definitely worth watching. And at some point in time, I completely intend on going back and watching them again. You know, my really good friend, Joe Beale, I think he listens to a lot of our episodes. I know he's written in a couple of times, but he had a really interesting theory about it that I hadn't really thought about too much before. but he was talking about like the idea of security versus freedom that's become so big lately, especially post-9-11 and everything.

And he was thinking, well, you know, it's really obvious if you watch it that it kind of talks about how the technology kind of gives us freedom at first, but then the bad guys get a hold of the same technology. And then all of a sudden we're slaves until we're able to, you know, create a more powerful technology. to keep us safe from that technology that originally gave us freedom. And we become prisoners of that model, like always having to build something bigger and better to stay ahead of the, you know, the bad guy. So did you get to see any of that in here at all?

Yeah, yeah. That makes a lot of sense, actually. God, that's a really interesting take. I like that. Yeah. I thought it was weird that, like, I mean, it's basically, you know, retirement community for spies

forced. And everybody else seems to be just fucking playing along. Like, it's no big fucking deal. That they're stuck on this island. Wasn't that fucking bizarre? Kind of like a cure for wellness. You guys remember that? It really reminded

me of that, like in the first couple of episodes. So I guess if they did do a prisoner remake, the actor that they could best pull off the part. Oh, come on. I'm not going to say it because I don't know Patrick coming back. No, but like everybody's just okay with this? Yeah, this is my life now.

Fuck it. Well, see now. Everybody's bought right into it. See, I have a different take on that. See, I don't think that the village is like a village for anybody but number six. Like, I think that the entire situation is controlled around him. I don't think that any of the other people he recognizes from his life or anything else about that stuff is valid. I think that everybody's putting on an act to get information out of him.

To what end? I mean, that's up for debate. Man, that's a big experience. Yeah, like, I never saw it as, yeah, like, I never saw it as it's a village with a bunch of ex-patriots or whatever. I just thought that it was. And this has been like reinforced every time I watch. I've seen the series like four times now. Right.

But I've always felt that it's a controlled situation to get info from him and only him. Wow. Or. Mind blown, man. Is it all in McGowan's head, number six? Maybe the whole shit didn't even happen. Maybe there's like an epilogue where, you know, he wakes up and finds his wife in the shower or something. It's just like, I had a bad drink.

Yeah. Hey, man, we're not far off. We'll get into spoilers, but I think that that deserves a serious argument. They'll have an epilogue where he's in an insane asylum, huh? One flew over the cuckoo's nest or something. Something, yeah. He's not even a fucking spy. You're just a homeless dude. Like the end of a Christmas horror story, huh? Yeah. Exactly. Well, what do you guys think about the importance of, speaking of other villagers and stuff like that? You know, I mean, obviously there's a lot of weird, like, multicolour, rainbow colors and stuff like that.

What's the deal with the straw hats and the capes? And, I mean, what do you guys read into all the way they use colors and costumes and things like that in the show? It almost seemed like they were uniforms. Yeah. Like they, because everybody kind of seemed like they dressed the same, like they weren't individuals. Hmm.

Yeah. Yeah. The goons always wore the striped shirts, right? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Like, Popeye. Yeah. I, you know,

I never gave a ton of thought into that, but I kind of always assumed that it was just, you know, the first step in trying to maybe psychologically break him, right? Would be to give him an ideal life or an ideal living, right? And maybe one of the ways to do that is to try and immediately appeal to a sense of, like, I don't know, a sense of society through color and to use that to set up his perspective

of like right and wrong and maybe throw a lot at him at first to see if he's, he gravitates towards something, if that meant like, you know, people wearing certain colors or whatever and start the process of breaking his mind, you know, like I always kind of thought that that was maybe the behind-the-scenes reason for it. Not that it's at the forefront or anything,

but just, again, I kind of, I've seen this series a couple of times. So the more I watch it, the more I'm trying to look at it from the perspective of this is basically like a giant, science experiment, right? Okay, sure. They're trying to break this guy.

And if they're trying to break this guy, then they're going to throw everything they have at him. Right. Now, if they know that he is very mentally strong, then they may have to result to unnatural tactics or things that other people wouldn't think of, right? So if they tend to study him and find a pattern regarding, I don't know, yellow.

Let's say, and it seems that he is nicer to women who are wearing yellow than he is to women who are wearing any other color, right? That maybe one of the things that they want to do is throw a possible love interest at him that's wearing yellow, right? So that they can get a little bit more of an edge and affect his psyche a little bit more

than the average person could. Other than that, and obviously the goons wearing the certain uniforms, I never saw much. on that. I do think it's interesting that he wears black most of the time because that, so that, I don't know if you guys know a ton about your like westerns history, but black, the good guy always used to wear black in westerns. Like if you look at high noon, Magnificent Seven, like all the classic westerns, because in black and white, you could always

delineate the man in black, right? So he was always, he was always the good guy. It was always like Gary Cooper or any of the old Hollywood stars that would play them. And then somewhere in 60s, that all kind of shifted, right? Because then you started to see Yule Brinner would, well, this is way later, but like Yul Brynter reprises his role as the man in Black in Westworld, but now he's the bad guy, right?

Right, right. Ed Harris, Westworld Cho, you don't quite know who he is. I mean, it's, things are kind of Tocci Turvey. So it's interesting that this show, he wears black the whole time. And it's at a time where a lot of those genre films were sort of flipping that

script so that he's almost in the middle of these two kind of ideas of good and bad. I don't know exactly where I'm going with this, but it seems notable for this time in film history. I just, I don't know why how. Well, and then he usually has that little white trim around the black. I don't know if that. It may just be goofy 60s British style. But taking this step further, though. Oh, sorry. Some of the buttons, I just thought about this. Some of the other numbers, their buttons were black and some of them are white. Most of them are white, but every once in a while you'd have someone with a black button.

What the hell would that signify? Well, and also just think about the whole situation. Like what is the thing that they all tell each other as a greeting? Be seeing you, right? Right. Be seeing you, be seeing you, be seeing you, be seeing you. Well, if a guy has been taken hostage and he's in a situation where they're trying to break him, if everybody around him is constantly telling him that he's being.

watched, what does that do to his mind? You know? So, I like it. This is the shit that I love rewatching the show for. Like all these little nuances and questions that maybe need answering and all that kind of stuff. There's a lot you can kind of chew on with this. Right. Yeah, because B.C. and you is huge in the show.

I mean, from start to finish. I don't think there was one episode where they didn't say that. Right. But how creepy is that when you think about it? Right. He's seeing you. Like, oh. What did you guys

Speaking of BC and you And always watching you What'd you guys think about Rover? What did what did what did what did What did rover represent? Was that was it just technology like a piece of equipment Or did it have a life of its own? Is that the balloon?

Yeah I don't know what the fuck that was He was They never really explained it It's just like a big old bubble gum thing Yeah I don't even know how How are you able to control

it. Well, sometimes, I did notice that a couple of times it definitely killed whoever it observed, and then other times it just delivered them to a different place or knocked them out and then they woke up in their bed again, you know? And of course, you guys realize every, from the very beginning, they always said, whatever you do, you can do whatever you want to number six, but cause no permanent damage. I thought that was kind of interesting. Well, he was very important for some reason, because they had to figure it.

out why he resigned. Yeah, well, that goes back to Jack's argument that the whole village was set up literally just for him, you know? Well, I mean, it makes sense because, I mean, apparently that question was so relevant that they couldn't harm him or hurt him or kill him, even though that they were so quick to kill everybody else. I mean, I know we're going to talk about favorite episodes in a minute, so I'm not going to say which one's mine, but mine completely kind of validates. that theory that I have. Yeah. About the situation being all about him. Like, nobody else is on his side.

He is onto an island of himself. You tell you many happy returns? I am, actually. It's interesting. Okay. Is that the one where all the people get on his side and then they change later? That's the one where he wakes up and the water doesn't work. but he's in the village.

Oh, right. Okay. But we'll talk about that a little bit more. Okay, cool. Ready to get into spoilers? Sound like rovers and enigma, huh? Well, yeah, because it doesn't make any fucking sense. It's just a big old white bubble gum balloon.

It takes you up and takes you somewhere. All right, before we talk about our favorite episodes and then get into spoilers, Brian, I want to know, where do you think the village was really located? I have no fucking clue off the ghost of Morocco well they found it

but did they let me let me go into my next question then Philip do you think he ever really left the village at any point whatsoever yeah I think he did I think he left it okay I think he left it many times

and literally then I well it depends on on how you're talking about literally like I personally think the whole series happened in his mind, so maybe not. But if it didn't, then yeah, I think he went to Britain and everybody else was in on it.

Wow. That's a big conspiracy, man. I know, big ass conspiracy for a dumb-ass question, but whatever. Why did you fucking resign? You don't have anything else to say about it, Brian? About the village and where it was looking, though. Do you think he really left the village? or do you think when he thought he was like back home again,

do you think that was all a mixture of drugs and special effects or something? You know what, man, the more I watched this show, the more I got confused. But listening to Phillips' idea that this was all in his head, you know, that's starting to feel more plausible. Yeah? But this is definitely a show that needs to be watched more than once. Well, Jack, you've seen it several times.

Yeah. Yeah, I think he does leave the village several times. I think that he, well, again, I mean, I believe that this show is a controlled action against him. Like, whether that's an experiment or a test, that's up for debate. But yeah, I think he absolutely leaves. I think that he, you know, the times that we see him outside the village are legitimate. I don't, while the inside your head. head theory is is interesting.

I think that it sort of cuts out a lot of the meaning of the show for me, especially the ending. So I don't love the theory, but I can see where you're coming from with it, you know?

Yeah. Because I think there are definitely there are definitely details that are left there to guide you towards that, you know? Well, yeah. And it's mostly the ending. For sure. for sure.

But yeah, I'm yeah, yeah, there's a lot to say. Yeah. Yeah, is for where the village is located.

I mean, it seems that they narrow it down to, you know, exactly where they're going, but he has a co-pilot that could be controlling the plane. Well,

so, I'm not sure. A co-pilot who said B.C. and you, huh? Yeah, and I'm not sure that, you know, they necessarily go exactly where he's thinking they go. I'm not sure that he's a pilot.

You know, he's a spy. But is he a pilot? Does he have a sense of direction, orientation? We don't really get that answer. So it's tough to say for sure. Yeah, well, you know what? The fact that all four of us each has a different idea about where it is and what the show is really all about, I think that speaks volumes for, you know, the depth and the intelligence.

to this show. Right. But I will point something out, though. We all have these different opinions, and none of them are wrong. Right. And the nice thing is that the story doesn't need them to be right to be a good story. Yes.

That is the problem with Lost. And that's why that show, in my opinion, failed so horrible. Yes. Because the story was predicated on mysteries that needed to be solved to finish the story. Right. It's not the case here. You know, these are mysteries that exist in addition to the story. And they serve a greater purpose of what the themes are of this show.

They're not, the show doesn't break because that theory means something different to a different person. So I think that's a really important distinction to make with this and, you know, some other shows. And in this show, they're more abstract. Like, it's, it's, it's, it's, you can have your own theory on what's happening. But, I mean, there's, there's always an underlying message. to what's happening in the show. Right, right. All right.

All right, you guys ready to reveal your favorite episode? I think, Jack, you already gave us a clue, right? Yeah. Yeah, I love many happy returns. I love a lot of the episodes, but I think this one, if I were to present this show to somebody, without any context, I think this one stands on its own pretty well. Um, first of all, it does something that I love in movies.

And for the first, I want to say 21, maybe 22 minutes, uh, there's not a single word spoken. It's all visual storytelling. Ah, and it's, okay. Phenomenal stuff. Kind of like Wally a little bit. Like Wally, like 2001, like there will be blood, you know. Um, a lot of, a lot of my favorite kind of movies.

Um, I, I, I really love that when I see it. Um, um, And I think the first words that are spoken are of the two fishermen who take number six on their boat. So he doesn't even speak for even longer after he gets on land and he comes across that sort of traveler with his family, I guess. And then, you know, the first person that he says anything to doesn't speak English. They seem to be speaking some form of like French gibberish. Yeah. So that's right.

Yeah. So like I really, there's something interesting. about that episode because it's it's all about restricted communication right like he you know he wakes up in the village nobody's there he has nobody he can talk to nobody to interact with he goes to the bell tower rings the bell nobody responds so like all of his attempts to communicate with someone fall on deaf ears like nobody's around so then she decides to leave um you know he finds a black cat the black cat obviously he can't talk to a cat but the cat does seem to be watching him. And, you know, he's, as he's sort of building his raft, he just sort of, you know, he looks at the cat a couple of times. And they make a point of sort of keeping the cat in shot in a little bit of that scene. You know, gets back to London, gets to his flat. Someone else is living at his flat. He asks to talk to the, you know, what is the mister who lives there? It's a mistress. He starts talking to the mistress. She doesn't understand what he's talking.

talking about. He can't seem to describe the fact that he used to live there properly. She mentioned something about liking men with beards. He doesn't have a beard. She'd like to see him with a beard. Like there's just, there's a lot of weird communication, right? And then when he finally gets to his superiors, it takes a long time before he can convince them of the village, right? He can't, it's just all about like repressed communication. He can't get the idea across no matter what he does, right and you know finally when things coming to focus and he's in the plane with his co-pilot and everything he has this like clarity of vision and clarity of communication and everything kind of lines up and finally somebody else is going to believe him 100% that that's the village

and the fucking co-pilot launches him from the plane and he's back in the village yeah and I just love the shot when he gets back home and he looks in his bathroom and the showerhead starts going, right? So like, it's this clear, fuck you from whoever is in charge to him. Like, you're not in control of this situation. I am. Right. And that's the whole point of that episode. It just, it, that episode always resonates with me. I love that episode. Yeah, that's a pretty deep one, man. And you're right, that would be a good starter episode, you know,

for someone who's never seen the show before. I'm going to go on a totally different direction. I'm going to get really non-serious, kind of almost silly a little bit. The one, the one that I really enjoyed was the girl who was death. Oh, nice. He took mine. Oh, man, that would just start it out not knowing why in the fuck is he not even waking up in the village. He just starts out in, you know, in London. It's like, what is going on here? And then, you know, when he, like, he's, he's, everywhere that he goes, she's trying to kill him. And he has to escape all of these Ruble Goldberg type

death devices. You talk about some Austin Powers influence, right? Yeah, exactly. With the frilly shirt and everything. Right. And then the silly guy

playing cricket with the big turn of the century mustache and everything. It was just, what in the fuck is going on here? This is a totally different show. It's not starting the same way. He's not in the village. And then at the end, he grabs the storybook, closes it, and says,

okay, kids, we'll do another story tomorrow night. And I'm like, okay, okay, I get it. That's kind of that waking up in the shower, Dallas type thing you guys were referring to earlier. Right. No, it was just a fun, fun episode. I really enjoyed that one. Philip, you have a second choice? Yeah, well, I mean, that was really mine.

Aside from that, I mean, I think the first episode was really good, the arrival, just to set you up for the series. But yeah, that was going to be my choice, the girl called death, because it was, I felt like it had a lot of that 60s spy nostalgia stuff in it. I mean, because even though it's a spy show, it's not really a spy show,

but in this episode, it was a spy show. And he kicked some ass, they had some special effects, some, you know, pop and smoke. It was just really fun. It caught my attention. My kids were running through the room, and they both stopped what they were doing and stared at the TV while this one was on. Yeah. It was great, man. I really enjoyed it. That was my favorite episode by far. Oh, and did I forget to tell you, if you blow out the candles,

they'll explode. Right. By the way. Yeah. I loved that. I love that. I love I love the ending to it. I loved everything about it. Other than that, you'd say arrival, huh? Yeah, I think so. Just to set it up for everything that's happening. Kind of a W-T-F moment for him. Yeah, man.

Those first two, three episodes really pulled me in and never let me go. I like the episodes where it showed you how far they was going to go to get this information. Like, I liked A, B, and C. Yeah, I was going to mention B and C. I really love that, too, where they went into his dreams and everything. Oh, yeah. And another one I liked was The Schizzoid Man, when he had the double to, they had him thinking he wasn't himself until he's seen that picture where he had the little bruise under his finger now.

Yeah. Because up until that point, he wasn't sure who he, if maybe he wasn't who he said he was. and of course a big ben i think was another one the chimes of big ben that whole journey through the water and through the crate and in the what was he you in the fake uh fake office they had set up yes yes yeah so fucked up yeah i'm like it just it just shows you how far that and i was going to say something to your uh theory jack about uh everybody was in on it that i i didn't

I didn't want to spoil it earlier, but did you guys notice the sign that was on the wall that said, um, a still tongue makes a happy life? Was that so nobody? Because I noticed no one ever talked to him really. Oh, wow. Brian, you, you just blew this whole thing out of the water, man. No, I didn't notice that. Yeah, it was a, you know, they had signs on the wall and that was one of them.

And that now hearing what you were saying about it, that made me think nobody was that for the people there not to talk to them, not to. to give anything away just to go about things, you know, like they're, like him, like they're staying there. And that was a thing that kind of makes me think maybe everybody was in on it, except for there was the episode with the girl that threw herself out the window. Oh, hammer into Anvil? Yeah. But the real sadistic number two, right?

Right. The real evil guy. Yeah. Yeah, but yeah, I really like the episodes where it just shows you how far they're going to go to get this information from him. Yeah, and that desperation was always there. They were always willing to try something different. Anything different, anything new, as long as they didn't permanently damage him, right? Or that sign was something he put there in his head so that he didn't give up the information.

Well, you know, it's fun. because, okay, so there's a, I'm trying to think of how to award this. Okay, so the first, like, section of episodes, right? If you look through, let me just get this right, I want to make sure. Okay, so the first run of episodes, well, according to my listing, are arrival, chimes of big Ben, A, B, and C, free for all, schizoid man, and the general, right? Then there's many happy returns. Now, I think that there's an argument to be made that the first.

six episodes represent like the first action of the controlling people or body to get information out of number six. Like to me, those episodes all represent different versions of we have to crack this guy. We have to get this information out of them, right? Episode seven is almost like an odd sort of many have a return. It's like an odd sort of reset, right? Like they've gone through all this bullshit. He's persevered. And at a certain point, he must just be, you know what?

I'm not giving this information up no matter what they do to me. So they reset by giving him this totally different situation, right? And they teet. Like if every episode has a lesson than what I was talking about before, episode seven, is probably them reinforcing the idea that you are only going to be able to communicate when we say you are. right so if that's the concept then the first six episodes of trying to break him represent one section

episode seven starts this new era of the story where they say you know what we have to change the conflict in order to beat this guy like he's not going to respond to adversity the way that we want him to he's stronger than we anticipated not what we expected Yeah, so we need to start shifting the battle lines into something more sinister.

And to me, episode seven, the darkest thing about that episode is the fact that at the end of it, like I said, when he walks into his house and the coffee pot's going off and the shower, when the water starts going, if that's not the biggest fuck you, I own you bitch move in the show, I don't know what is. Good point, man. and then you get to the like the last five or six episodes and they uh boy they take a left hand turn and just keep on going like that shit gets all kinds of crazy there's a western episode living living in harmony yeah episode yeah i was like what the fuck is going on now are you guys uh i have to assume well i don't want to assume anything you guys iron maiden fans at all yeah absolutely was one of my favorite bands growing up. So I assume you're aware of the album, The Number of the Beast? Yes, sir.

The prisoner is going to show up in this episode at the very end. Stay tuned. There you go. Didn't see that one coming. All right, cool. You guys ready to talk about this crazy finale? For sure.

All right, spoiler alert. This is a motherfucking spoiler alert. You've been. fucking warned. This is a motherfucking spoiler alert. You've been fucking warned. This is a motherfucking spoiler alert. You've been fucking warned.

Them bones. All right. Just a couple of little pieces of trivia. I pulled more out, but let's just move forward. So a couple of things. The series enigmatic finale was so controversial

that according to legend, McGuin had to go into hiding for a time. Not legend. I saw an interview. He did that. You know what? And my friend Joe told me that that was a fact too. So,

I mean, this dude's probably seen the prisoner a dozen times. So, mega fan. And I'm sure a lot of people that are going to find this podcast and listen to it could probably attest to that as well. So that's crazy,

huh? Different time back then, huh? Oh, yeah. The final episode of Jack, you're going to love this one, man. The final episode, received a Hugo Award nomination, not a win, but nomination for best dramatic presentation in 1969. But it lost out to, I guess it could live with this, 2001 of Space Odyssey.

Yeah. All right, what the fuck is going on with this episode, guys? Got me. Brian? Brian? shit was fucking crazy. I did not see everybody banding together at the end. What was with the little dude?

Why did he switch sides so easily? Mini me, I don't know. So, I do have a theory. And it's a fairly popular theory. I mean, I don't think it's anything out of left field, really. But

you know, there's a lot in this episode. And part of the episode, I don't know if you guys know too much of the history of it, but the script was finished about 48 hours before they went to shoot. If I remember correctly, McGuhan worked with

a certain writer on this, who had stepped away from the show at this point. So he was sort of left to end this thing. And you know, there was some question over how many episodes they were going to get. And I think this was filmed like months after the previous

episode, which originally I think the final, let me think here, 12, so I think it was supposed to be 12 episodes in the first series, and then the second series was supposed to be 13 to wherever they ended up. Okay. It happened to be, what, 17, 19, whatever it is. But so there's definitely like, this episode does feel quite a bit different than the others

for a lot of those reasons. Now, when you talk about the all in his head theory, right? I think that this episode, some of it is in his head. I do think that. Obviously, it has to be, right? There's no fucking way that... Right. It's crazy.

Yeah. But I think that this is where the... The themes of the series start to come into focus, the more that you watch this episode. Because it seems like... The idea of the show is nonconformity, right? Sure. You shouldn't believe in what anybody tells you. You should believe in yourself, right?

Rugged individualism. Right. I think there's a quote somewhere where it's like, build your own kingdom, don't worship others, right? So if that is what they're trying to get across, I think that metaphorically, number six, and we're in spoiler alert, right? Are we there yet?

No, we're in spoiler mode, yeah. Okay, okay. So when number six takes the mask off and it reveals himself as number one, A gibbering idiot version of himself. Right. With a monkey face. Right. But I think what he's saying a few different things.

I think the first thing that he's saying is the, like, a complacency is bad, right? And if you are somebody who just wants to follow all the rules and live life the way everybody tells you to, you can ascend to the top, but the top isn't all that it's cracked up to be, right? So if you get there, and if that's your goal, that's fine. But there may be mortal life than just being at the top of the mole hill, right? I like it. I think that it's also, it also has a lot rooted in his own journey, right? Like his journey was to not crack. And wouldn't it make sense that the only person who deals with him is,

is himself. Like, he's the only person who has ever bested the village, right? If the village is a test of him and number one is the person who bested the village, then it has to be him. It's always him, right? Yeah, nothing else would make any sense, right? In a weird way, yeah, it's that whole shining thing. Like, you're the caretaker.

You've always been the caretaker, right? Like, oh, wow. His whole character is an island. to himself. And I think that the ending is just a big metaphor for where he has come from and where he's going. And I actually,

I think that the comparison with 2001, they're both ironically being up for a Hugo Award is very valid. Like that's what that story is about. Like what is man? Where can man go? And how did they get there and how can they

get to the next plane of existence? Or like, more so, like what does all that mean, right? I think that this finale encapsulates a lot of those ideas. And it's a swerve because they don't really, they don't tell you for sure, yes,

this is a dream or this is in his head or any of that stuff. It's left open for interpretation like the rest of the show is. But I think the fact that was it 67, right? So what are we, we're 50 years on? We're still talking about this.

I think that validates what McGuhan was trying to do with these stories in a big way. So I think that's where it's coming from. Yeah, I don't know. We may not be talking about loss like this

38 years from now, right? Dude, we weren't talking about loss like this now. Fuck that show. Yeah. All right, so let me ask you as this. When he got up to the podium and they, everyone said, okay, the judge told him,

hey, you're the, you're the you've bested everything, you know, you're our master now. Get up there and speak. And then he opened his mouth. And he said, I, and then everybody back there in the jury or whatever it was behind him, I don't know what that was all about, but they all started going, I, I, I, I, I, you think that has something to do with the fact that once you make it to that point, and like these celebrities today, they're drowned out by their fans in social media

and they become something that they aren't really or that they didn't mean to be or express. Did you guys get any of that out of that? I can see that. Wow. It's just kind of interesting. It's like he wasn't even really allowed to speak for himself because as soon as he would say something, people started aping him. Everything that he was saying, you know? Yeah.

You know, wouldn't even let him finish his sentence. Everybody wanted like a piece of it, you know? And even though he kept going with his thought, you couldn't hear what the hell it was that he said. All you could hear was the eye, eye, in the background. That's really cool. I think this whole episode is a metaphor. Totally drowned out. And then it's as true now as it was then.

It's kind of weird. It's almost like, eh, maybe it wasn't, though. But I'm just thinking, is it possible that everything that Magoon was saying 50 years ago in this show is even more relevant now than it was then? Is that possible? I tend to think so. Yeah. I think that whole number one being himself was just saying, I mean, even though I'm like,

ah, well, maybe this whole thing was all in his mind because the whole fucking show doesn't really make a ton of sense. But I think in general, he was saying that your own worst enemy is you. And even though you best everybody else, the final boss is you. You got to beat you to become something greater. Man, deep thoughts. I know, right? That was one of the few serious moments for me.

I'll tell you what, though, you got to love Leo McCurn, huh? The number two. I think he was number two more than anyone else, wasn't he, throughout the series? Yeah, because he was there a couple times before the last couple episodes. I mean, what a great British Shakespearean type actor, you know. I mean, who could have been better in the role than this guy? Yeah, yeah. A lot of solid performances in this series.

You know, just pretty much everybody played number two. They all played it in a different way. In their own way. Sure, sure. I love that about it. Yeah, they all kind of stand out as having their own, you know, perspective and style. And obviously, you know, not that we're not that we're not. we need to say,

um, Magoo Hint is fucking awesome. He's absolutely perfect for this. And I think part of that is, you know, he's the driving creative force behind it. So he's got a vested interest in everything. Mm-hmm.

So what about like the very, very end where, um, they get out. They're, uh, the, the, the,

the, the, the, who, who, who, who escaped the place. And then they're back in England.

And I, like, what, what is, what is, Does that mean anything? What the fuck is that? When he's running hand in hand with the little guy?

Yeah. Which is when they're running away. Creepy weird looking. Number 48, number two, and they're all like buddies. Yeah. It becomes like a heist type thing there at the end. Yeah, it was weird. I was like, okay, well, that's not.

I mean, I know that we need some sort of happy ending, which may be why they put that into the show, but. Yeah, I was confused. use, especially they got the scene where he's talking to the cop. Right. And it looks like he's explaining everything that just happened. Right. And then they just run off.

He likes keeps squatting down and moving his arms all around. What the hell is he? Jack, help us out here, man. Yeah, I mean, I can't really speak towards that. But, you know, when six drives away and the butler goes into his house, and the door opens the exact same way the doors in the village open. Right. That's right.

I didn't catch that the first time. I watched this episode twice. Yeah. And I saw it way back when, but this time I watched it twice, and I really only caught the door on the second viewing. Yeah. Yeah. And we have to remember, too, that this was during, you know,

this was right at the beginning, or I'm sorry. Was it the beginning? No, let me think here. Cold War era. Sure. Yeah, right of the Cold War, right? Right, right. So there's something to be said for this whole show,

getting all the way to the end and the metaphor of, you know, confidence in the self. And, you know, I think that there are probably some ideas behind not selling secrets and, and things of that nature. Right. And if the village is meant to be, let's say, a psychological prison, I think it's an interesting move to remind the viewers that, despite them being back in London, that there may still be things to think about the way that he thought about them in the village, even though he's, at home. Yeah. Because it's not the first time he's been back in London. Exactly. True. So it's interesting. I mean, you know, there are some conflicting things you got to remember. Obviously, it's the 60s. So, you know, there are some things in here that are a little fucked up.

Just like in the 60s, you know, the style of filmmaking or acting was a little bit different. It's like that fucking, what is it, East, East Atlantean accent that they had or, or, East Atlantic, Atlantic, what the fuck is it? It's the way that everybody talked in old Hollywood movies with that, like, Oh, yeah, sure, sure. You know, that Catherine Hepburn, Gary Cooper, like, ah, Mrs. Mrs. Hepburn, you must get on me. Like, yeah, see, see, you see?

Right, like nobody ever talked, except for Ever, G. Robinson, nobody actually talked like that. But it was just like a convention of the time. Obviously, the prisoner is going to have some of that stuff that feels a little dated. A little dated now, sure. Yeah, I think that maybe, like, trying to infuse a little. bit of the happy ending. Let's all go our separate ways thing.

Maybe that, but, you know, it could also be them saying, look, the village was set up where, you know, number two is here and number six is here and he goes about his day to day and does his thing. Well, you know, we're going to drop off number two. Where do they end? Number two, he goes into like Westminster Palace, right? Mm-hmm. And, okay, well, is that much different than the pod that he lived? lived in in the village?

Like, you know, like, is there some, is there some geographical similarity that's supposed to induce a certain thought process in number six now? You know, have they, did they finally fucking win? Just by bringing them back? I don't know. There's a lot of interesting stuff there. It's, it's worth considering. Why do you think, why do you think toward the end when, uh, 48 and two were in those?

And then, um, obviously there was that one that wasn't marked, but they all said orbit on them and then of course there was the rocket ship at the end there i mean was this what the fuck is all that mean was this like a dr strangelove type thing with a with a bomb or was this more like a 2001 thing would shoot them into space yeah what what what was up with that it was very drug induced more than anything well there was a lot of shit going on in the late 60s right yeah that was on the cusp of the decade under the influence right jack right right Right, right. Yeah, I mean, there's probably more meaning there. I just, I've never really doveen into that.

I've always chalked that stuff up as being of the time. Sure. Yeah, I never really thought about it that much, to be honest with you. I was always more interested in, I guess, the journey of self in the show and kind of focusing on the aspects of the show and the story that deal directly with number six and where he ends up as a person. So I think I lost track somewhere along the way. There was an episode where he runs for office and gains the number two spot.

Yeah, free-for-all. Right. What happened? Did he lose it? Because the next episode he wasn't number two anymore. Oh, that's a good question. Good question. Okay.

I had even thought of that. I was just making sure. I was like, okay, because I thought he was number two. and now he's number six again. I mean, I know everything usually resets, but maybe I miss that part. Yeah. I think, I don't know.

Yeah, I think the idea there is trying to, you know, trying to give the guy, trying to do more than dangle the carrot, right? Like, let's give him the carrot and see what happens. Yeah. Just another ploy, another trick. Right, right. It's all a very metaphor.

series, I think. You know? I mean, there may not be... I mean, obviously, there's not one official meaning, which is part of the reason that we're still talking about the damn thing. I think that's kind of cool about it. Yeah. Yeah.

Timeless series, for sure. Yeah. Yeah, it definitely holds up. I'd urge anybody listening to this, who obviously doesn't care about spoilers because they're still listening, but... It's worth your time to seek this thing out. It's, you know, I don't know, time isn't really doing it any favors.

It seems like it doesn't, there's a certain cult following, but it's not like people are clamoring to see this thing anymore. I think that's a mistake. I think that this is one of the more interesting pieces of science fiction you can come across. Yeah. Probably because it's not exclusively science fiction, too. I mean, it incorporates a lot of different things. but it's really

it really does hold up I'm always surprised because I always expect it to not be as good the next time you know or to be redundant yeah a little bit more dated a little bit more 60s

yeah but it's interesting how the show it just it really swings for the fences every episode there's just so many different things that it tries that if you give it enough time you kind of forget about a lot of the thing you know like I'd forgotten about the Schizoid Man episode I know that one's very memorable memorable. But I, like, watching it this time, I was like, oh, yeah, that's right. He has a double.

That was a good one. Yeah. So, you know, it's a great show. I really love this show. It still is one of my all-time favorites. Yeah. I wasn't even excited about it watching it. I mean, I didn't, you know, like I said, I was a big Iron Maiden fan growing up. So I had heard the quotes and all that stuff. I had no idea what it was from. Not a clue. I didn't really know this show was on the fucking map until we decided to start talking about it. And we were going to do the show a long time ago and never got around to it. And I was like, man, 17 episodes and they're an hour apiece. God, that's going to be an undertaking from the 60s. I wasn't really stoked about it.

Yeah. And then like two or three episodes in, I was like, wow, this is. this is kind of awesome I'm really impressed with it definitely wasn't as hard to make it through as death note right? Exactly because that was okay

Death Note was that was a hard show to make it through for the show you know what I mean because it was a lot of episodes but they were short man oh I know they were short but it was a ton of episodes where are they?

I kept comparing it in my mind I know right I kept comparing it in my mind to this one I was like nah these are like a fucking hour apiece, dude, 17 episodes. That's a lot of hours. But I'm telling you, man, two or three episodes into it, this is an amazing show. Go check it out. If you've never seen it, you owe it to yourself to watch it. It is a must-see. Awesome. I think we're all in agreement. All right. So if you made it this far into the show, go ahead and watch the prisoner now,

now that we've given all this. But you know what? Even with the spoilers, you could go watch the series now, even listening to all this and get something totally. different than what any of us got from it. Very easily. That's the whole point of the show. We talked about less than 10% of this show. I mean, there's so much here. All right. Well, as always,

we want to thank you guys for listening to another episode of The Horror Returns. We'd love to hear your feedback and ideas. You can always reach us at thehorror returns at gmail.com. And follow us. Where, Brian? Twitter, Facebook. Instagram, Tumblr, join our Facebook group.

We enjoy all the feedback from everybody. All right. Look for us on iTunes. And Jack, once again, we want to really thank you for showing up, man. So put your plug in now, dude. Where can we hear you more? Oh, well, binge media, you know. Like I said, we've got TV commentaries are coming back.

And actually, for those of you who stuck it out to the end here, I will drop a little spoiler. At the end of February, we will be covering Ash versus Evil Dead season three. There we go. Oh, there we guess. Definitely show. When is that come out, February? It's like the last week of February where it starts.

Fucking, I love that show. Right around the show. Yep, so we'll be ramping that up. It just appeared on the sports cast this past week. And, yeah, you know, we'll see where we end up. But, yeah, over there on binge reading. you. Awesome.

Yeah, sorry about your boys, man. Ah, we were going to get through a whole show without talking about that, man. But I fucking hate the Eagles, man. Yeah, you know, that was one of those games, whoever had the ball last was winning it. For some reason, there was no fucking defense. Yeah, well, until you hear the commentators talk about it and act like the Patriots got outplayed, which they did not. Ah, you know, they made one play good on them. Eagles won.

Congratulations all that shit. But, you know. They made the good D play. Well, I'm going to be a fucking asshole Patriots fan right now and just say the nice thing about being a Patriots fan is the floor is the AFC championship game every year. So I fully expect us to be back. And I don't think the Eagles will be. All right. Maybe the Cowboys.

We'll come back. I'm going to make an NFC sweep. NFC East Sweep of the Patriots. I like to see it, man. I like Dak. Definitely like Dak. All right. Well, since Brian is our program director here,

who always chooses what we watch, uh, guess that means next week it's fucking superhero week again. Oh, Jesus Christ, I can't believe it's going to be so terrible. So we're going to cover the brand new Marvel movie Black Panther. Yeah. as well as, is it

1998's blade, Brian? Yes, sir. Oh, cool. All right, that one I love. So we'll see how that goes. So until the horror returns again, Jack. Good night.