The Host Unknown Podcast - Episode 175 - The Sam Altman Free Episode

Episode Date: November 27, 2023

This week in InfoSec (06:40) 23rd November 2011: KrebsonSecurity reported that Apple took over 3 years to fix the iTunes software update process vulnerability which the FinFisher remote spying Trojan exploited. Evilgrade toolkit author Francisco Amato had reported it to Apple in 2008.Apple Took 3+ Years to Fix FinFisher Trojan Holehttps://twitter.com/todayininfosec/status/172768779801710602512th November 2009: John Matherly announced the public beta launch of Shodan (@shodanhq) - the first search engine for internet-connected devices.https://twitter.com/todayininfosec/status/1727462790330232951   Rant of the Week (10:51)Former infosec COO pleads guilty to attacking hospitals to drum up businessAn Atlanta tech company's former COO has pleaded guilty to a 2018 incident in which he deliberately launched online attacks on two hospitals, later citing the incidents in sales pitches.Under a plea deal he signed last week, Vikas Singla, a former business leader at network security vendor Securolytics – a provider to healthcare institutions, among others – admitted that in September 2018 he rendered the Ascom phone system of Gwinnett Medical Center inoperable.Gwinnett Medical Center operates hospitals in Duluth and Lawrenceville and the deliberate disablement of the Ascom phone system meant the main communication line between doctors and nurses was unavailable to them.More than 200 phones were taken offline, which were used for internal communications, including "code blue" incidents that often relate to cardiac or respiratory emergencies. Billy Big Balls of the Week (18:52) UK's cookie crumble: Data watchdog serves up tougher recipe for consent bannersThe UK's Information Commissioner's Office (ICO) is getting tough on website design, insisting that opting out of cookies must be as simple as opting in.At question are advertising cookies, where users should be able to "Accept All" advertising cookies or reject them. Users will still see adverts regardless of their selection, but rejecting advertising cookies means ads must not be tailored to the person browsing.However, the ICO noted that: "Some websites do not give users fair choices over whether or not to be tracked for personalized advertising." This is despite guidance issued in August regarding harmful designs that can trick users into giving up more personal information than intended.A few months on, the ICO has upped the ante. It has now given 30 days' notice to companies running many of the UK's most visited sites that they must comply with data protection regulations or face enforcement action. Industry News (26:16) Cybersecurity Executive Pleads Guilty to Hacking HospitalsRegulator Issues Privacy Ultimatum to UK’s Top WebsitesMicrosoft Launches Defender Bug Bounty ProgramWhy Ensuring Supply Chain Security in the Space Sector is CriticalBritish Library: Ransomware Attack Led to Data BreachNorth Korea Blamed For CyberLink Supply Chain AttacksUS Seizes $9m From Pig Butchering ScammersNorth Korean Software Supply Chain Threat is Booming, UK and South Korea WarnInfectedSlurs Botnet Resurrects Mirai With Zero-Days Tweet of the Week (32:28)https://twitter.com/MichaelaOkla/status/1721715089970274542 Come on! Like and bloody well subscribe!

budget's out of order now all you need to do is get with your boss and launch a mini budget and completely screw everything all we're trying to do all we're trying to do jav is to delay you for your next meeting yeah we're just seeing how long we could hold out okay okay my next quote-unquote meeting is a friend you're listening to the Host Unknown Podcast Hello, hello, hello, good morning, good afternoon, good evening From wherever you are joining us And welcome, welcome one and all to Well, I've lost track, is this 175 of the Host Unknown Podcast? We missed you there Andy

because I was on mute but I was shouting you saw me lean in and shout 179 amateurs someone doesn't know what number episode it is the other one doesn't know how to unmute themselves 179 yes exactly of the host unknown

podcast welcome welcome one and all this is the uh the sam altman free episode because let's face it who the hell can keep up with what's going on there um who knows such as he may or may not be chief exec yeah he may or may not be chief exec of OpenAI at the time this hits. I'm just waiting for the Netflix documentary. Yes, let's just catch up on it then and see where we are. Anyway, gentlemen, how are we? Jav, how are you doing? I see you're drinking your Monster Energy drink at 8 o'clock in the morning.

That's not a good sign. What is a good sign, then? You don't want me to be awake? A monster energy drink at 8 o'clock in the morning. That's terrible. No, I mean, I could have gone for three coffees that I normally do instead of I only had one coffee and now I'm having a monster. You're actually probably better off with a coffee.

Yeah, exactly. You won't get kidney stones with coffee. It's like podcast with my two dads. It's just unbelievable. What now? I should drink more water, hydrate. That's some sound advice there. It is, yeah, absolutely.

Hydration, I mean, it's what we all missed as kids in the 70s. Yes, that's it. It's funny, in the 70s, someone told you you can buy a bottle of water. I know. What? That's one of the greatest marketing stunts of all time though isn't it getting people to pay for water yeah yeah second only to getting people to listen to the smashing security podcast if you wanted to buy water you bought a soda stream

yes burdock and dandelion now that was oh man yeah or dandelion and burdock or or slightly odd tasting coca-cola yeah cola in adverted commas anyway jeff how are you apart from low energy levels uh very good thank you i i'm actually looking at my calendar to see what I did this week to see if there's anything of note. You know, yesterday and today, our American cousins have been off celebrating Thanksgiving. And so it's been gloriously meeting free in the afternoon. So I'm enjoying the ride, let's say that. so I'm enjoying the ride, let's say that. Yeah, that sounds about right. There's one problem about working for a UK organisation is that you don't notice any difference for this week,

which is a real shame. Andy, what about you? They complain about all the bank holidays we get, though. They get more than we do. Yeah, Labour Day yeah Martin Luther King Day yeah Veterans Day all this kind of stuff

no I've actually been celebrating Thanksgiving myself I have been out eating as American as I can I sent you guys

some pictures of my BBQ chicken my Texas sausage that's the God it was obscene my pulled pork it was obscene theene cobbler you pulling your pork on the on the whatsapp group was just but the amount the amount of foods dear god man

the gluttony of the gluttony portions yeah i mean seeing you now i mean thankfully this is just an audio podcast but we can see each other but you know i can even see the return of the of the double chin it's like that's right well you know i'm still carrying a little bit i'm still carrying a little bit of holiday weight from uh as you're aware a bit of holiday weight but anyway talking of dead weight, Tom, how's your weekend? Yes. Yes, very good. Talking about unnecessary weight. Yeah, very good. Let's see what... I should look at my calendar, actually, and see what I've done this week. Not much.

Do you know what? After Iris... Your calendar just says, take your meds on 8 o'clock, 10 o'clock, 12 o'clock, 2 o'clock. Calendar. I have recurring alarms for that. But yeah, after IrisCon, I was absolutely shattered. I was in bed early for the first part of the week. It was ridiculous.

I was so tired. But yeah, apart from that, I don't know. I've been doing a bit more reading than normal rather than just watching telly in my underpants. I've been reading books in my underpants instead. So, yeah, it's been a bit of a bland week. A cultured week by the sound of it. A cultured, yeah, I know, I know. But talking of doing things in your underpants,

shall we see what we've got coming up for you this week? This week in InfoSec proves that three years is a reasonable amount of time. Rant of the Week is a traditional hospital pass. Billy Big Ball stretches the cooking analogy to breaking point. Industry News brings the latest and greatest security news stories from around the world. And Tweet of the Week is proof that there is no such thing as paranoia someone really is watching you so let's move on to our favorite part of the show shall we the uh part of the show that we like to call this week in InfoSec.

It is that part of the show where we take a trip down InfoSec memory lane with content liberated from the Today in InfoSec Twitter account. And our first story takes us back a mere 12 years to the 23rd of November 2011 when Krebs on Security reported that Apple took over three years to fix the iTunes software update process vulnerability which the Finn Fisher remote spying Trojan exploited. So evil grade toolkit author Francisco Amato had reported it to Apple in 2008 so this was a story on government surveillance tools in the digital age obviously focusing on Finn Fisher which was this spying Trojan marketed to various governments for PC and mobile phone surveillance and it revealed that Apple was warned about this vulnerability on the iTunes update mechanism in mid-2008, but it took 1,200 days to fix that

because the vulnerability basically allowed the deployment of FinFisher to be disguised as an iTunes update. So despite being notified in 2008, they took over three years to fix it, which actually raised questions about the company's awareness of the vulnerability. Sounds reasonable. Sounds reasonable to me.

Three years? Come on. It's complex. It's a complex thing. They put their best man on it. Or woman, I'm not sure. How long is it going to take? It depends.

Yeah, exactly. How long have we got? If you think now, like, you know you know critical vulnerability would you accept three years for it to be fixed uh would apple even accept it these days um who knows but yeah it's very into as always krebs asking the questions right and this was uh 12 years ago but, our second story takes us back a mere 14 years to the 12th of November 2009 when John Mathurley announced the public beta launch of Shodan, which was the first search engine for internet-connected devices. And I'm sure that many of our listeners are familiar with showdown and i think it was ken beaumont that

referred to it as the uh the most accurate asset inventory that your company will ever have it's a fantastic tool it's used you know it did get a lot of um hype on twitter a few years back when you know people realized that you could just surf the web and look at other people's cameras connected cams yeah exactly and it's still true to this day i think people are just you know showdown the novelty's worn off exactly but uh yeah fantastic tour only hit us 14 years ago wow and normally actually by at black friday and what have you Showdown sometimes has a sale on so let's keep an eye on that

because sometimes you can get a whole year's worth of Showdown for like $50 of PervCam for $5 alright excellent I mean if that's what you're looking for Jav you've got to have a hobby I guess

in between work and host unknown podcast. No comment. All right, excellent. Thank you. That was... This Week in InfoServe. Feeling overloaded with actionable information? Yep. Fed up receiving

well-researched, factual security content? Yes! Ask your doctor if the Host Unknown podcast is right for you. Always read the label, never double dose on episodes. Side effects may include nausea, eye-rolling and involuntary swearing

in anger. Which sounds very timely, actually, given it's now time for this week's Listen Up! Rant of the Week. It sounds a mother f***ing rage. Now, if the headline alone doesn't doesn't wind you up here, then I think you're somewhat dead inside so former infosec coo pleads guilty to attacking hospitals to drum up business i mean this this is big balls like we could see that coming in fact if we look forward and probably is billy big balls this but this is like the fire an arsonist fireman this is this is somebody who's setting fires just so they can stay in a job to to put them out so this is a an atlanta tech company uh former coo has pleaded guilty in to a 2018 incident in which he

deliberately launched online attacks on two hospitals later citing the incidents in sales pitches now as if it wasn't bad enough yeah i didn't see that part before okay if it's not bad enough that you're you're you know you're an arsonist setting fire to things but you're setting fire to hospitals. I'm metaphorical speaking, obviously, but hospitals, you know, the place where people go to live and or die, hopefully. You know, it's this is people at the most vulnerable, at least attack a company. But then again, you know, if you're in this kind of mindset, you only like to punch down onto the weak. But the story continues that under a plea deal that he'd signed last week,

Vikas Singla, a former business leader at network security vendor Securolytics, I mean, if that name doesn't put you off by itself, I mean, it should do, a provider to health care institutions, amongst others, admitted that in September 2018 he rendered the ASCOM phone system of Gwynedd Medical Centre inoperable. What a scumbag! Utter, utter scumbag.

Gwynedd Medical Centre operates hospitals in Duluth and Lawrenceville and the deliberate disablement of the phone system meant that the main comms line between doctors and nurses was unavailable to them. It just doesn't get any better. 200 phones taken offline, used for internal communications, including, we know the Americans love these sort of terms, code blue incidents that relate to cardiac and respiratory so so literally

er came true because you had people running down corridors shouting code blue rather than shouting it down a a telephone line instead but this is just awful oh and apparently he wasn't even sent down for the uh the full amount of time because he's a bit sick. He's ill. I think, is it cancer? I think it was something like that. He's been diagnosed with a rare and potential

incurable form of cancer and a potentially dangerous vascular condition. So two things spring to mind here. One, if only he could have got to a fully functioning hospital that may have helped him. But no, he probably attacked it on his way in on the ambulance. And two, man, play stupid games and win stupid prizes.

It's calm as a bitch at times. But, yeah, this is shocking. I mean, I'm really looking forward to seeing how jav can spin this as a as a billy big balls or anything other than that you know because you know attacking hospitals but if you're a criminal is bad enough but when you're a supposed good guy that then goes on to sell your services as a result of that shocking shocking i tell you to sell your services as a result of that. Shocking. Shocking, I tell you.

Well, maybe he was breaking band in it. He was like, you know, his insurance didn't cover it and he needed to get into... And America being America, you need, like, you know, a million dollars just to be seen. Oh, he needed to get into prison to have his life-saving medical treatment. Yeah, yeah, maybe. Something like that. So, you know, there is always that but actually this reminds me like you know in the 80s 90s there was a lot of conspiracies about how

antivirus firms were the ones that were creating the viruses and putting it out there so they're creating the problem so that they could solve it and you know this this kind of thing it doesn't play well for the image of the industry and what people are doing. And neither do stupid made-up company names either. Well, that's just the industry. Secure olytics. Take two words and mash it together and there you have it. To be fair, though, to include the hacks that he did in his own marketing deck that is kind of like you know that's it that's it and

i think here's how easy it is look what i did yeah yeah i think it was in the first mission impossible where veng rhymes he was like a hacker in it and something and someone's saying what about that job and he goes like hey it was never proved that i had anything to do with that magnificent piece of work yeah shocking absolutely shocking uh is securelytics come on where's our uh researcher online is securelytics still going? Let's see. I can see Jav on the Google Doc. He's on it. Securitics.com?

Yeah, it is still going. Wow. Yeah. Wow. I mean, you'd think you'd go for a rebrand after that, wouldn't you? They do email security, IoT security, web security, cloud logging cloud logging yeah so one of the reviews unsolicited advertising emails from jeff counsel taking advantage of the wanna cry hysteria reported as a spammer i think we found the measure of the company as a whole

well i was gonna say exactly that perhaps you'd like to sponsor us I was going to say exactly that perhaps you'd like to sponsor us and come on to the show to give your side of the story we'd be very happy to hear from you so Viglas Singla was one of the founders of the company they've got about 10 or 11 employees they're founding in 2016

and yeah they don't seem to have any funding or anything as such so um well because people don't touch that sort of shit with a barge pole no is he is he still on the website no this was i was looking at crunch base for that okay okay i was going to say if they still have his his picture up as one of the founders perhaps in an orange jumpsuit i don't know or a medical gown uh it's on it's on the way back machine okay because single chief operating officer but not on the current site actually this story i mean just this story actually broke in 2021 so you're only two years late for this.

Well, no, he's just been sentenced. Yeah, he's just been sentenced. Yeah, come on. It's up to date. But I tell you what, despite what everybody says, you two are pretty good researchers, I have to say,

as you're clicking away in the background. Excellent. So thank you. That was this week's Rant of the Week. People who prefer other security podcasts are statistically more likely to eject USB devices safely. For those who live life dangerously, you're in good company

with the award-winning Host Unknown podcast. All right, Jav. Yes, I know we've got to hurry up. It's time for your... So you... Who understands those cookie banners that show up on your European websites? I understand you click OK and they go away. Exactly. But the UK's Information Commissioner's Office, the ICO, is getting tough on website design, insisting that opting out of cookies must be as simple as opting in so they should inform consent yeah yeah this reminds me of like my first pc i had in about 96 or something like um and it had that turbo button on it do you remember the turbo button yeah made the fan go faster or something yeah i know i don't

know what it did it was almost i think apparently it was it was useless on modern machines but on older machines that were trying to emulate the 086 chip it what it did was allow programs to speed up. So old apps and old games that would rely on the system clock of an older chip or the chip cycle of an older chip, which is obviously slower, the turbo allowed it to operate at normal speed. Well, that is the most useful bit of information you've ever provided on this podcast, Tom. So thank you.

But really, we all pressed it it hoping things would go faster yeah yeah uh i was thinking auto man would pop out or something anyway so with the advertising cookies uh they said that users should be able to accept all advertising cookies or reject them. Users will still see adverts regardless of their selection. But rejecting advertising cookies means ads must not be tailored to the person browsing. OK, so, you know, that makes sense, I suppose, if they just call it – instead of calling it cookies, why don't they just say, would you like personalized ads turned on or off? And that might make more sense to more people out there.

You speak to American friends and they're always like, oh, do you call cookies biscuits? Because it doesn't make any sense. The ISO note is that some websites do not give... John, whenever I press, I still get adverts. Whenever I press, I still get adverts for bloody Viagra. I don't know why. Yeah.

The ISO note is some websites do not give users fair choices of whether or not to be tracked for personalised advertising. This is despite guidance issued in August regarding harmful designs that can trick users not give users fair choices of whether or not to be tracked for personalised advertising. This is despite guidance issued in August regarding harmful designs that can trick users into giving up more personal information than intended. In a few months on, the ICO has upped the ante. It has now given 30 days notice to companies running many of the UK's most visited sites that they must comply with data protection regulations or face enforcement action. I think this is such a Billy Big Balls move. You have like,

what was it, EasyJet that was breached and ICO said we don't have enough resources to investigate it. But now they're going after every single UK website saying your cookie banners must be better. I think if this is not such a Billy Big Balls movie and showing like where priorities lie I don't know what is yeah do you know what reject should always be the default option of cookies yeah sorry because you have to always be the default you need to opt it yeah exactly and let's face it, you know, facing enforcement action from the ICO is like being savaged by a dead sheep. Yeah.

You know, I don't think most companies are going to worry about it. To your point, Jav, about, oh, we would investigate it, but we just don't have the staff. Yeah. What is friend of the show, Stephen Bonner, doing now? He needs to up his ante himself. Yeah. Come on. Yeah, he does. Come on of the show steven bonner doing that he needs to he needs to up his ante himself oh come on yeah come on to the show steven he's stopped returning our calls when he became the uh the deputy ico yeah he put a lot of distance between him and us yeah episode five i think was around about the time he stopped returning our course so i think one of the

little people what was it he was i think was there i'm sure we got something from him maybe yeah yeah yeah oh yeah that segment we haven't but we need to maybe revive that well do you know i actually listened to after they obviously last week's uh finally curated episode that was published was uh edited by me uh and so whilst i was logged into the simple the or the portal that we use um it's i i went back and i found episode one and i listened to it and it is uh ultimate cancel material for like any from from uh 2016 uh that content is absolutely should never be published and deleted from

Oh you have to listen to that now. Blimey. Now you've got me curious as well. I did sit there listening and laughing my head

off at where it went. And then you know we had all the features. We had tweet of the week. We had

obviously with the old jingles like very old jingles. But yeah no very very fun listen. Do you know, when I was at IrisCon, I was on the front desk checking people in, as you know, scanning badges, and somebody said,

ah, I've started listening to Host Unknown from episode one. It's really good, I'm enjoying it. It's like, wow, that's commitment. Yeah. That is. We've had some had some speed bumps on the way put it that way yeah episode two specifically oh very good anyway so this was by billy big ball which is more like i suppose it's more like it's less Billy Big Balls, more like the audacity of the ICO segment. Billy Big Balls of the Week.

If good security content were bottled like ketchup, this podcast would be the watery juice which comes out when you don't shake properly in a niche of our own you're listening to the award-winning host unknown podcast so we can see jav's getting antsy he's looking at the clock uh seeing it tick down so let's see how long i can keep this little segment going in between times and see how stressed I can make him by just not moving forwards at all onto the next part of the show. Because, yep, his eyes twitching now, and we've still not gone any further on in the show.

He's starting to smile. Yeah, I can see his buttocks clenching through the look in his eyes. And his eyes are glancing to the clock. And what does the clock tell us, Andy? It tells us it's that time of the show where we head over to our news sources over at the InfoSec PA Newswire who have been very busy bringing us

the latest and greatest security news from around the globe. Industry News. Cyber security executive pleads guilty to hacking hospitals. Industry News Cybersecurity executive pleads guilty to hacking hospitals. Industry News Regulator issues privacy ultimatum to UK's top websites. Industry News

Microsoft launches Defender bug bounty program. Industry News Why ensuring supply chain security in the space sector is critical. Industry News British Library. Ransomware attack led to is critical. Industry news. British Library. Ransomware attack led to data breach. Industry news. North Korea blamed for cyber link supply chain attacks.

Industry news. US seizes $9 million from pig butchering scammers. Industry news. North Korean software supply chain threat is booming UK and South Korea warn Industry News Infected slurs botnet resurrects Mirai with zero days Industry News

And that was this week's Industry News Huge if true Huge if true Huge if true Huge, I think that was the quickest we've ever done it. I want pig butchering scammers. Yeah, I heard this story about the British Library being hacked.

Okay, we'll do that one instead, yeah. What are they going to get? I actually just clicked through. Well, this is what I'm wondering. It's following around some words. Yeah, so it appears to be from their internal HR files. So do you reckon someone uploaded like a malicious CV or something? We have no evidence that data of our users has been compromised,

so your reading history is safe. Yeah. Oh, so they asked for a starting price of 20 bitcoins, which is £749,000. As a ransom. It's a Britishish light it's not the most i mean it's it's not it's probably got money but it's not exactly going to be sloshing around because it's like a public institution right i mean it's it's yeah and you're going to get a they're going to release reading histories? I mean, it's hardly Ashley Madison, is it? No.

Oh, it says they've got HR data as well. Again, you know what? In terms of great crimes, I don't think it's up there. No. I think it would be Billy Big Balls if the British Museum Just said publish and be damned Yeah

British Museum British Library sorry So I think this is a really interesting The headline caught my eye about Supply chain security in the space sector And I'm like You know we have enough supply chain issues

with like normal stuff and uh yeah I get it it's like they want to be you know safe it's safe and make sure their shuttles don't blow up and what have you but it's um I think it's hardly a list of burning issues is it I mean how many people sit there and think, oh, we need to make sure that the supply chain or fast satellites or whatever it is. Actually keeps me up at night wondering where the equipment, where the food delivery on the International Space Station is delivered from

and whether or not those people are vetted. Yes. The spacesuits are made from child-free labour. Yeah. Oh, then they're never going to be up to standard are they exactly there's tiny hands to stitch them together so this pig butchering i've never heard of pig butchering it sounds horrible but it's it's basically a scam where you don't uh starts with an unsolicited message, normally on social media or a messaging app or something like that, or a dating site. And then when the scammers won the victim's confidence,

they persuaded them to make crypto investments, specifically crypto investments in what turned out to be non-existing trading platforms. That's a horrible name for what is quite a bland kind of attack it's i don't know i get a lot of these uh spam things uh via like whatsapp or telegram or you know on a message thing where it's like you get added to a group with like a thousand other people and then all of a sudden someone says hi my, my name is such and such. I'm a big crypto investor. And then someone else says, oh, is that so-and-so from such and such a company?

I've heard of you. This is the greatest investor in the world. And it's like, clearly Shill Account's talking about, you know, it's like, yes, I'm here to give you all financial advice for free because I believe in sharing wealth. And it's like oh yes please tell me more i've always wanted to learn from you but could never afford your courses and it's just it's

funny to watch but you know you do have to like leave these groups because it's like who the f is this you know how did you get my number yeah that's perfect we got your number by guessing it yeah that's fantastic anyway yeah i've had a few i've had a few well i mean yeah but you had a very dodgy pass though in fairness andy true well past the present they're probably like they don't they probably go to add me and i'm on the list like he's one of us. Like, don't add him. There's Jav selling our data, Tom. That's it. Ah, there we go. Okay.

Very good stories. Thank you. Okay. Oh, is that our sign to move on? All right. Yes. Excellent. That was this week's... Industry News.

this week's industry news 30% nostalgic 30% ranty 30% ballsy and 30% terrible at maths you're listening to the award-winning, host-unknown podcast. Okay, Andy, time to take us home with this week's... Sweet of the Week. And we always play that one twice. Sweet of the Week. This week's Sweet of the Week comes from Michaela Oakland, and she says, That weird burner account watching your stories isn't your ex. It's not your ex's new girlfriend either.

It's me. We don't know each other. We never have or will. But it's not your ex's new girlfriend either it's me we don't know each other we never have or will but it's me because i stumbled upon you and you became a beloved character in my nighttime routine it'll always be me which i just thought was beautiful fantastic maybe michaela is our listener we can't identify i hope so michaela we're going to tag you obviously when we uh release the the episode please follow us and please listen and we really hope that you do that we become beloved character or at least characters i guess in your nighttime routine beloved is probably a bit of a stretch for at least two of us yeah if you could put a link to my youtube

channel and everything in it so that maybe michaela can start bumping up those figures and i can get back into the uh the monetized section then that would be great you know that that you know many years ago i was monetized and like you know that that is 20 that i made over those years was put to good use. So, you know, it's good. It would be good to get back to some passive income because like, you know, the world's greatest investors

have told me that that is the future. Brilliant. Thank you. Okay, Jack. I've got to go, guys. Bouncing in his seat. See you.

Stay secure, my friends. I love you. Bye. Beat you to it dear me he really is off isn't he blimey

Jeff's shooting early yeah shutting down he's gone yeah well I mean shooting early I mean why let a

oh it's suddenly gone a lot quieter hasn't it right excellent well Andy background noise I know I know

well just generally speaking right so yes Andy thank you very much Excellent. Yeah, background noise. I know, I know. Well, just generally speaking, right. So, yes, Andy, thank you very much. As I scroll around looking for the closing music, which I can't find anywhere. But no matter. Thank you very much, Andy. Thank you, Dom.

And stay secure. secure stay secure my friend what were you waiting for it doesn't work with just two of us I'm just thinking it doesn't sound right I'm waiting for the yeah

yeah it doesn't work anyway ta ta you've been listening to the host unknown podcast if you enjoyed what you heard comment and subscribe if you hated it please leave your best insults on our Reddit channel. Worst episode ever.

R slash Smashing Security. So Michaela Oakland obviously is the, she ran the, she rates dogs. Oh, is it she ratesates Dogs or We Rate Dogs so She Rates Dogs and she also has a podcast maybe it's similar to We Rate Dogs

yeah 12 out of 10 definitely a good boy yes exactly yeah and We Rate Dogs yeah

nice well Michaela we look forward to a little bump in our stats