The Host Unknown Podcast - Episode 36 - IT'S CHRIIIISTMAAAAS!

Starting point is 00:00:00 I can't believe we've actually been recording so many episodes this year. And I suppose we got the lockdown to thank for that. Well, that's one good thing that might have come out of it for us. I don't know about our listeners. So what is this, 36? Yeah, episode 36. And are we... Are our stats still increasing or are they steady?

Starting point is 00:00:24 Well, they're going up in that people are listening to us, but, you know, we'll see. We'll see. Maybe we could make this one the most listened to episode of the year. How about that, dear listeners? You're listening to the Host Unknown Podcast. Hello, hello, hello. Good morning, good afternoon, good evening from wherever you are. Welcome to the last Host Unknown Podcast of the year that shall forever be known as 2020.

Starting point is 00:01:03 That's all you need to say just 2020 and people know exactly oh i've had a bit of a 2020 moment you know or a god this week's been a bit of a 2020 do you know what i mean just oh my god but this is the last one so you're suffering as nearly at an end folks you know this will be great for opticians it'll be like if you've seen the dictator the movie with uh sasha baron cohen and he replaced a whole bunch of words in the beginning with uh aladdin his name yeah yeah so even the words yes and or positive and negative were replaced with aladdin so there's someone at the doctor and he goes you are hiv aladdin and he and he smiles and then he gets sad then he smiles and he gets sad because so i smiles and he gets sad.

Starting point is 00:01:47 So I can just imagine in the future, like going by your logic, people are going to go to the opticians and they're going to say, your vision is 2020. Oh no. Yes. Yes. No.

Starting point is 00:02:00 Oh dear. Anyway, how are you Jeff? Apart from watching a Sacha Baron Cohen movies recently. I'm very good. I'm very good. Glad that this is the last thing of the week. Anyway, how are you, Jav, apart from watching Sacha Baron Cohen movies recently? I'm very good. I'm very good. Glad that this is the last thing of the week. I could do, off the year, I could do with a break from you guys for a few weeks. And I'm sure our listeners can too as well.

Starting point is 00:02:15 So it's a win-win, as our Chinese spy from TikTok would say. Very good. Hello, Jav. Ati, how would you like to follow up that xenophobic piece of dialogue? No, I will just agree with Javin. It'll be good to take a break from you guys. I only speak to you once a week anyway, but it's,

Starting point is 00:02:35 it's been a lot. I'm just done. Yeah. Stick a fork in me. Although before Tom joined Andy, you and I were discussing about how ever since Tom's got a job, the a job, the chat group has been blissfully quiet because he's actually working. Just no content this week. I had to generate all this content on my own. I'm just like, there's nothing in the chat. Blissfully quiet. You're always telling me how much I never take part in the chat.

Starting point is 00:03:02 telling me how much I never take part in the chat. I come back and there's 72 messages and I think, oh, this should be interesting. And then I'm deeply disappointed when I get to the end of all 72 messages. It's just utter rot. Utter rot. And yet you send it on to other groups and

Starting point is 00:03:17 sort of claim credit for being down with the kids, right? Well, yeah, obviously. Obviously. I send unique content to you guys as well i scrape the very best of reddit oh my god it next step next year tom's gonna take a leaf out of someone's book and like start pro yeah content from reddit posting on twitter under the guise that this is his own original content i'm waiting for you to be in a coffee shop hearing some people being rude to a waiter, and so you've got to register their domain name

Starting point is 00:03:50 before they do, Tom. Yeah, that's right. Host Unknown. Fuckers, I'm going to register. Hostunknown.com. No, I'm not, because that's about a grand. Let's do something cheaper. Oh, dear me.

Starting point is 00:04:03 Yes, I will change my name to Khalil Langford. So how is the new job going, Tom? It's good. It's good. There's a lot to do, obviously. I'm writing some content for the website and et cetera. I just had a meeting this morning with the European team about some events and things for next year, which

Starting point is 00:04:26 looks pretty busy. They probably just off the top of their heads knocked out about 25, 30 events they want me to take part in. First one is the week after next on the 23rd of December, which is marvellous. I'm hosting or moderating a panel to do with cyber warfare. So best start reading a book, I think. Clearly we need Bob Geldof to intervene because they do not know it's Christmas time. Like, why would you do a webinar on the 23rd of December? Because it's the Middle East. Well, clearly they do not know it's Christmas time.

Starting point is 00:05:08 There you go. Still, you know, it's always nice to contribute, you know, to the grand scheme of things. But, yeah, Jav, you've just been doing your end-of-year report. You've done a whole bunch of work this year. Yes, I have. I have. He doesn't want to give any spoilers away because he's

Starting point is 00:05:27 saving in his back pocket for review day yeah yeah yeah yeah no i was quite surprised i've written like 79 blogs this year don't ask me about the quality of them just there were 79 of them so the rest of us call them defacements but you know, you go on. Look, a tweet can be construed as a blog,

Starting point is 00:05:51 can't it? It's a micro blog. Oh dear me. Right, right, let's get cracking shall we? Last show of the year,

Starting point is 00:06:01 we don't want to overrun too much. What have we got for this week? We obviously have our not so new This Week in InfoSec Tweet of the year. We don't want to overrun too much. What have we got for this week? We obviously have our not so new This Week in InfoSec, Tweet of the Week, Billy Big Balls,

Starting point is 00:06:09 Rant of the Week, Industry News, which is, is that from our regular stick? Still the regular stick. This is his last content. Yeah, last week is, sorry, next week is his last,

Starting point is 00:06:22 is there last week, isn't it? Yeah, he's not going to be working as last week, though, is he? Come on, let's be honest. Well, he's barely worked this week, so. Will we have a little people today? Maybe. Let's see what Jav can pull out of his bag, as it were, out of Santa's little sack.

Starting point is 00:06:40 What can you produce for us for the little people today? We're also going to have a look back at some of the notable events of the year, because we're nothing if not topical and informative. So, yes, that's what we've got. Excited, folks? Very. Can't

Starting point is 00:06:58 wait. Oh, dear. In which case I reckon we should go straight on to... This week in InfoSec. Love the jingle. Yeah, so this is the part of the show where we take a little stroll down memory lane. We liberate content from me today in InfoSec Twitter account,

Starting point is 00:07:32 and for the second week running, I am feeling a little bit disappointed in that there was only really one story worth bringing up, so I had to go out and find my own story for the second one. What's the point in liberating content if you have to go and find your own as well? I know, exactly, right? I mean, I'll have a word with the guy. I'm going to say that there's no point in me stealing stuff from you when you're not doing the work. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:07:53 Can you recommend anybody else I can steal from? Exactly. Who did you steal from? Where's this breakdown in the chain? So this is quite a funny one to end the year with so the the host unknown podcast has seen a new lease of life in 2020 uh not many other things saw a lease of life but the the podcast did uh if you recall back to our very first podcast it was five years ago and we brought you a story about a certain mr troy Hunt leaving Microsoft.

Starting point is 00:08:27 He had finally given up his job and was going out on his own. And so topically, he didn't work for Microsoft. Yes, he did. Yes, he did. He was a Microsoft MVP, but he worked elsewhere for an insurance company or something. I think there's a difference. Ah, OK. No, I'm sure he worked he works at my try we know you're listening can you just you know tweet us or ping us or you know just just clarify yeah whatever just prove jab wrong that's all we're asking it was five years ago we talked about this although jab you should probably know because i'm

Starting point is 00:09:02 pretty sure that um there's a video of you sort of picking him up and driving him around in your old we had a fantastic day I took him to East London we went to Ilford had a brilliant curry you must have had a real crick in your neck at the end of that day he's like six foot six and you're four foot three you know what it's uh it's a permanent permanent picture of my neck i mean like you got a triangular shaped vertebrae to make sure he could look up yeah so anyway i mean fortunately that part's uh not that factor would be part of the show anyway but uh whether or not he uh left in 2015 or left his own company.

Starting point is 00:09:47 He used to work for Pfizer. Right, okay. And he was Microsoft MVP because he was in that region. But, yeah, he worked at Pfizer. And I suppose if he had stock there, he'd be pretty stupid now because their stock's going through the roof with the vaccine. Anyway, sorry, please carry on. on anyway so we clarified that part anyway the point of this one the the uh part we are highlighting here is it was actually the 5th of december

Starting point is 00:10:15 2013 so seven years ago troy hunt launched the site have i been pwned um and so mere seven years ago at launch he had passwords from adobe stratford gawker yahoo voices and the sony pictures breaches um indexed um so quite a good little bulk of stuff to start with and as of today seven years later he has got nearly 11 billion compromised accounts indexed um you know in that area so i'm sure most people are familiar with have i been pwned um it's merely seven years old wow i can't actually believe i'm surprised it's seven years i i would have thought it's like three or four years but um yeah i think it's it's like hat tip to try for keeping something going for that long. You know, you see so many things in InfoSec, especially they come,

Starting point is 00:11:10 they're a flash in the pan. A couple of years later, it's gone. But I think it's a dedication to what you're doing, and I think it does bring or has brought a lot of value to a lot of people. So I think it's well done, Mr Hunt. When we look at this thing that he's got nearly 11 billion compromised accounts or the details of 11 billion compromised accounts, all I can do is picture him sitting in his secret rocket base in Mount Uluru with a cat on his lap stroking it and cackling

Starting point is 00:11:43 because he's got 11 billion compromised accounts. Yeah, no, I don't think of him like that at all. I just see him behind a computer providing a service. But okay. Oh, come on. Well, mostly on his speedboat these days, isn't he? He's not... True.

Starting point is 00:12:00 Did he win that on Bullseye? Yes. Here's what you could have won. That's what he came to the UK for, to pick up that one from that family in Yorkshire. He didn't need it anymore. For our international listeners, sorry, you might have to look that one up. Yeah. So anyway, the next story we have.

Starting point is 00:12:22 So seven years old. Congratulations, Mr. Hunt. Moving on to story two. And this is a mere three days ago. So this is the story that I came up with. This day in InfoSec this year. This week in InfoSec. FireEye, a well-known security firm,

Starting point is 00:12:41 announced that they had experienced a security incident that involved the theft of the FireEye Red Team tools. I remember when this happened. Yeah. I mean, quite a big story at the time. So the evidence suggests that the compromise may have been carried out by Russian nation-state threat actors with top-tier offensive capabilities. And this is per the blog post announcing the hack authored by the fire eye ceo kevin mandia um so they are sort of saying that the it looks as though

Starting point is 00:13:15 the attackers were interested in the details of fire eye customers that specifically the government agencies and obviously the FBI have been called in to assist with the investigations they always are in these these things but just credit on FireEye for this one so we have been working with them we've got some interests going on at the moment and they've been very transparent about everything you know that they've not sort of gone into a room and said hey look you know we'll come back to you um you know they've been very open sort of talk through where they are and um you know ongoing works um so yeah mere three days ago but i'm pretty sure this will be mentioned in um you know in years to come so this time next year um you know we shall cover it again they have done a really good job i have to say

Starting point is 00:14:07 um very very transparent and open and i think also what's interesting is the the rest of the industry rallying around them yeah pointing fingers and laughing yeah and i think it makes a difference though when you are transparent though doesn't it it's a very different vibe straight away you get people on site uh on on sites and yeah you can really control the narrative a lot better that's it that's it i also think it's it's one of those things that um you know you only don't when i was at alien and i worked a lot with the research team um or got to know some of them a lot a lot better and um some of them were telling me that, you know, threats against researchers are a very real thing. And, you know, companies like FireEye, they are very much in that

Starting point is 00:14:53 high profile area. So even people like Krebs, we've seen like he's been swatted or attempted to be swatted like several times, you know, people have sent him drugs and then sent the SWAT team after him and that kind of thing. know it you know we we joke about a lot of things uh in the industry and people doing stuff wrong but I think people that are are researching some of these big things especially like nation states and what have you you know there is a fair amount of risk for the company and the individuals there so uh it's even more important i think for uh that it's it's it and reassuring to see people rallying behind them as opposed to trying to make another uh adding more stress to their life this week in infosur thank you andy you really were scraping the barrel there

Starting point is 00:15:42 to get some additional content, weren't you? I was quite surprised at how short that was. But think of it this way. Andy's now stacked this week in InfoSec for the next X amount of years because in January we'll just look back at what we've done on this January and we'll repeat that. Repeat the whole thing. We didn't start until April, though, Jeff. Oh. Okay, you, Jav. Oh.

Starting point is 00:16:08 Okay, you've got a few more. Financial year, financial year. Financial year, yeah, yeah, that's right, that's right. Oh, dear. Right, Jav, I think it's time for you this time. What have we got for you? Oh, you're doing Tweet of the Week, aren't you? Tweet of the Week. What have we got for you?

Starting point is 00:16:23 Oh, you're doing Tweet of the Week, aren't you? Tweet of the Week. This week's Tweet of the Week is by Dennis the Trainer. Graziano Dennis is his Twitter ID. Americans, I'm not getting the COVID vaccine. I don't trust what they put in it. Also, Americans, woo-hoo, the McRib is back! For our American listeners,

Starting point is 00:16:49 we're doing this, we're laughing with you. There are plenty of Brits on this side of the pond that also aren't getting the vaccine or they don't trust what's in it. But I think when you play to stereotypes, it just makes it funny. Also, Americans are 20% of our audience, so let's not completely remove them.

Starting point is 00:17:10 Let's cater to them. Well, cater, yeah. McRib, everything. Brilliant. So anyway, that was the sort of too good to let go tweet of the week. I had a chat with somebody the other day who said, would you get the virus, you know, the new vaccine? I said, yeah, of course I would.

Starting point is 00:17:31 And he said, oh, I don't know. I just don't like sort of putting things in me. I don't even like a paracetamol or whatever. I was like, seriously? You want smallpox back? You know, why would you not you know oh there's the brilliant trend on tiktok at the moment where people are sort of telling their family members they've had the vaccine and then sort of uh twitching or you know doing tiktok and stuff

Starting point is 00:17:57 there's some hysterical ones about it it's just so funny how people are so scared of this vaccine yeah whereas they'll take vaccines all all other times you know well apart from the anti-vaxxers of course well that yeah i think that's what's to say you know you're not prepared to take this uh scientifically researched um you know scrutinized vaccine and put it in your body to save yourself but you're prepared to pay you know 40 quid for a gram of coke uh from some guy in the pub and snort that in the toilets that's it that's it but you know what it's my mom was telling me she was listening to the radio and some caller they're talking about the vaccine and someone called in who was um he was really old he was like in his 90s um and he said that back in the 50s i think he said he

Starting point is 00:18:46 was in school and he remembers clearly that one of the teachers came in and they said that so and so kid um won't be coming in because he's died of measles or or something like i think it was measles and you know he's with he's with the angels whatever. I think it was like a church school or something. And he goes, that really stuck with him because it was, you know, a friend of his who he used to play with in the playground and he's now dead because of this disease. And then through his lifetime, he's seen the vaccines come and to the point where it's completely eradicated,

Starting point is 00:19:24 like measles and deaths from you know all these preventable things smallpox polio whatever um and so for him he was like i cannot fathom why people do not want to take the vaccine he goes it's a tried and tested sort of scientific method that has been going on and it's made the world a lot better just through the course of his life he said he's seen it become so much better and he goes you know autism death yeah yeah yeah so anyway but um moving on a vaccine insert disclaimer we are not medical professionals so yeah please uh please do not use this podcast for medical advice always consult your doctor before taking any

Starting point is 00:20:13 medication including the vaccine um so instead of doing a tweet of the week, I was going to just highlight who I think is the tweeter of the year. I know it sounds like now we're kind of officially doing some awards or what have you, but it's not. Do we need to get a new jingle? Yes, we do. But fortunately, only once a year. It still costs the same amount.

Starting point is 00:20:42 So we shall use it every week it has got to be in it is someone who i've followed for for a long time and he's not even strictly about infosec he covers a lot of uh amazon web services uh it is cory quinn uh his of Amazon Web Services. It is Corey Quinn. His Twitter ID is at Quinnypig, Q-U-I-N-N-Y-P-I-G. And his commentary on Amazon Web Services, especially last week when it was reInvent, absolutely had me in stitches. And it is just so factually correct,

Starting point is 00:21:22 but hilarious at the same time. He also does this newsletter called Last Week in AWS. It's worth subscribing to it if you're actually more interested in some of the technical details around some of the services and how you do some of your costings and what have you. Jeez, it sounds like a sponsored spot. Tom, run the sponsor jingle for us when i get to the end of this sponsored by last week in aws last week in aws cory quinn yes at quinny pig so so where did he get that idea from the uh the last week in uh he's obviously a listener of this show

Starting point is 00:22:00 he is he is clearly the lovers mutual friend of the show um so so things like if we'll put a link to his his uh some of his reinvent tweets in the show notes but there's some things like you know and we're starting out with an ad for intel thanks to reinvent sponsor prospectus we know that an intro video for the keynote is a sponsor option that costs 175 000 dollars my soul cousin is free 175 gram plus the costs of making the video in the first place yeah yeah i mean that's it's kind of like on par with a lot of these big conferences, you know, RSA or Black Hat and what have you. So, you know, it's just the little quips he makes in between responding to people's comments during that.

Starting point is 00:22:55 It's like, we have millions of customers, and that's why we've had the same three keep showing up on slides and in keynotes. They're the only three that are willing to admit it. Yeah. I used to believe that your child in pain was the worst sound you would ever hear but then aws named their custom trip tranium custom trip yeah it's uh it's some custom trip i I don't know. I'm just looking. Just saying the same thing again doesn't mean you're explaining it.

Starting point is 00:23:29 No, it's a slide in the picture where a person on stage and behind him there's AWS Custom Silicon. So I think it's a typo. I think you meant to say chip. Maybe, maybe. Oh, yes, they did, yeah, because it says Tranium under that, under 2021. Tranium? Tranium.

Starting point is 00:23:52 Anyway, that was my selection for Tweeter of the Year. Excusing his typos, go follow him, he's brilliant. Okay, thank you very much. Tweeter of the week. Smooth. We updated that, no problems, on the fly.

Starting point is 00:24:12 On the fly. AI, ML, we have it all. And the fact that we can shout louder than the jingle. Oh, dear. Fascinating. I love, actually, the cost of these events that you know, like Ignite and RSA, it always astounds

Starting point is 00:24:34 me how much it really does cost to get in front of that many people. Yeah, it's crazy. And this was a virtual event. And this was a virtual... Oh, God, yes, of course. Jeez. I wonder how many attendees there were to the virtual event compared to normal because Ignite is definitely one of the big ones, isn't it?

Starting point is 00:24:54 Yeah. Like tens of thousands. Is it bigger than RSA? I'm not sure. Probably. Who knows? Different audiences, though, isn't it? Oh, yeah, obviously. Yeah, I know's just you know just the scale of it it's a bit like um the salesforce ones they're they're

Starting point is 00:25:10 about three times the size of uh rsa and that's when they bring in cruise ships into san francisco to act as hotels uh anyway yeah you're listening to the host unknown podcast more fun than a security vendor's briefing virtual or other true story true story absolutely right andy i think we're over to you now for this week billy big balls of the week okay so um this is my billy big balls of the week and although it's written by a scientist um there's that sort of link between the stem and uh cyber security and to me this really applies to any uh i guess subject matter expert and his take uh so this is a guy called marshall shepherd and he's written an article um sort of saying three reasons scientists endure social media trolls and attacks um and to me this is uh you know it's a great one and he starts off by saying that obviously social media is an

Starting point is 00:26:20 interesting place uh you know it can be a repository of amazing information access um yeah at the same time it's a cesspool of mean spiritness and uh you know misinformation um but he's saying because you know it's a place for credible experts to connect with others beyond the ivory towers um you know it's he tries to balance that against the fact that you know it's also a place where people can get an audience whether they deserve it or not, not pointing to any particular presidents in particular. So he's really answering the question, why do respected, published and admired scientists endure the trolling and attacks from faceless personas? And then he sort of comes up with three reasons based on his own experiences.

Starting point is 00:27:05 And like I said, I think this relates to or can relate to um a lot of people because i often wonder you know i i came off social media a while ago um you know say for tiktok which is just the best platform out there um but uh um you know you know it's win-win yeah so says win-win but you go into the uh you know you can just open twitter and just see people arguing about nothing uh you know you go to comments and it's just it's frustrating sometimes you know there's some really really great people who've got some really good uh insights to part um and then there's others just want to argue for the sake of it um so this guy gives his three reasons. And he says, you know, number one, the reason he endures the hot mess that social media is because it is an effective medium, you know, for exposing, you know, the board of public media and policymakers to the real science.

Starting point is 00:28:05 You know, I mean, the vast majority of your friends on Facebook, you know, are not scientific experts who are cracking open scientific journals or conference proceedings on a regular basis, yet they do have an opinion on Twitter and Facebook, which they spread to the rest of their friends. So he's really there to make sure that they engage in these spaces because, as he says, if credible expertise is not in the fray then pseudo expertise and bad actors with agendas will gladly fill the voids

Starting point is 00:28:31 you have to take the fight to them basically yeah pretty much you can't just stay in your your existing spheres of influence and and expect it expect them to engage there that's right he's got something he calls mAlpine's Law, which says that pseudoscience will always try to fill vacuums in scientific knowledge, which I think is great. Why is that McAlpine's Law? Because there's a guy

Starting point is 00:28:56 called Alistair McAlpine who wrote about it in a medical brief. Ah, okay, fair enough. Yeah, I mean, again, don't read too much into that um but you know this is a podcast nobody looks too much into it yeah but you know if you think back to the start of the pandemic the amount of experts um you know you've got their medical degree from facebook um you know telling everyone else what they should and shouldn't be doing

Starting point is 00:29:22 uh so uh reason two is um you know beyond serving as an antidote to misinformation campaigns, he says it's really about the passion. People are passionate about what they do. They've been doing it since a young age. They've spent a whole career trying to understand how things work. So he just wants the opportunity to share, you know, talk about stuff and just let everyone know about their passions, which I think is probably the reason most people started talking

Starting point is 00:29:51 about particular topics on social media. It's just keeping that ego in check. As I'm sure you're aware, Jav, a struggle that you fight with on a regular basis. But then he does come up with uh i know we love analogies but his final reason is um is what he calls the boiled peanut incentive um and what he's talking about is how peanuts which although messy and cumbersome to get into uh once you're past the shell he says the moist slightly salty nut is being so worth the effort. That's what she said.

Starting point is 00:30:28 And he also caveats this saying that the feeling could probably apply to crab lovers too. And so it's really, again, it comes back to the passion as it works for the greater good, the advancement of knowledge, betterment of society and the future of his kids. Worth the effort. to good the advancement of knowledge betterment of society in the future of his kids yeah and uh yeah they're able to endure the internet shells to get his ultimate prize um so not uh let's say not purely infosec but i think applicable to many industries yeah it is it's why i come on this podcast every week. Are you the pseudoscience part, the pseudo-expertise? I'm here to take the fight to the pseudoscience. No, no, Jav is the hard, crusty shell. Actually, no, wait.

Starting point is 00:31:14 I've got a funny thing to tell you quickly. Yesterday, someone on LinkedIn, I won't say their name because I don't want people looking it up, but they announced that they were moving to another job and someone I used to work with who I love immensely he's he's a brilliant guy he commented on them saying congratulations and he goes it'll be good to stay in touch because clearly he works at the same place that they work at and I replied to his comment saying ah your, your words are hollow, you never keep in touch with ex-colleagues. And then I said, by the way,

Starting point is 00:31:50 congratulations on the job to the original poster. And like, because me and him, we have this just banter going on all the time and what have you. Anyway, I make that comment, think nothing of it. I come back later and the original commenter had replied to my comment, basically tearing me a

Starting point is 00:32:05 new one saying you know you know how rude and inappropriate is for you to bring your personal grievances onto a third person thread you know and highly unprofessional to air it in this space and like bloody bloody blah and I'm like holy shit man and then I lick and there's like not just a like on that it's a heart comment and I and I click to see who it is there's another person like loving that person's comment saying that yes you go you know you tell this bully like you know put him in his place and I'm like she did not know you at all no no no um so I was like oh man what do i so i replied saying you know what this is fantastic that you called it out you should call out toxic behavior i wish more people are like you uh but you know this is i maybe i should have added a smiley face it's just a inside joke between me

Starting point is 00:32:58 and my ex-colleague uh and then i and then i dm'd my my ex-colleague on twitter because you know he wasn't around on LinkedIn. I said, dude, you need to back me up here. Bow me up, bow me up. My parachute didn't open. Help, help, mayday, mayday. And please tell me he said how much. You know what?

Starting point is 00:33:19 He's like, he thinks a bit like you two. And I would not have been surprised had he, for him to have just piled on the wall. I have no idea what you're talking about. No, thankfully he went on there and he cleared the air as well. But I was sitting there thinking, oh my God, I'm going to have to leave LinkedIn. There's people probably sharpening their pitchforks, ready to have a go at me.

Starting point is 00:33:42 But yeah, I think, you know, that's why I endure social media trolls and attacks. Oh, look, Tom's looking it up now. Okay, no need to point right yet. Yeah, that's the one. Yes, yes, that's the one. As thrilling as it is listening to someone read in their head. I know.

Starting point is 00:34:09 Yeah, I know. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Yeah, so anyway, go on. Go on. Well, he saved me. And then the original post said, sorry for the confusion, and we all lived happily ever after.

Starting point is 00:34:21 But, you know, it was just touch and go there for a second because you just never know. You saw your entire internet history flashing before your eyes. Yeah, exactly, exactly. Cancel culture. I'm contacting your employer. Yes. And when Jav sees his internet history flashing before her eyes,

Starting point is 00:34:38 I think so do Andy and I because they're somewhat intertwined. She's never good. Never good. Let's delete the WhatsApp chat up till today, shall we? We have to do that every year anyway. Every year? I have to do it every time Andy says something.

Starting point is 00:35:00 Oh dear. So that was your Billy Big Balls? No, it wasn't? It was. Oh, it was. Yeah, that was your Billy Big Balls. Okay, it wasn't? It was. Oh, it was. Yeah, that was your Billy Big Balls. Okay, you're not going to do this other story then? No. Okay.

Starting point is 00:35:10 In which case, we'll save that one for next year. And thank you, Andy, for this week's... Billy Big Balls of the Week. So, Andy, have you got the time? I do. It's that time of the week when we... It's me the time! It's me the time when we head over to our reliable sources over at the InfoSec PA Newswire, who brings us the latest and greatest stories from around the globe.

Starting point is 00:35:43 It's this week's... Industry News. Hashtag Web Summit. Nick Clegg claims internet needs accountability, not rules. Industry News. Ransomware set for evolution in attack capabilities in 2021. Industry news. 2020, the most vulnerable year yet.

Starting point is 00:36:10 Industry news. TALIS and Google Cloud partner for external encryption key management. Industry news. Hashtag BHEU, collision of cyber communities creating tension and risk. Industry news. Hashtag BHEU, collision of cyber communities creating tension and risk. Industry news. Hashtag BHEU, focus on security fundamentals, not adversarial sophistication. Industry news. Data loss reports to ICO increase once again.

Starting point is 00:36:40 Industry news. Hashtag BHEU North Korea cyber offence Cyber offence strategy evolving To focus on international Industry News And that was this week's Industry News Huge if true

Starting point is 00:36:59 Huge if true Huge Huge, if true. Huge. Javid's Weekly Stories. Yes, so the real stories that you've all been waiting for. None of that low-quality stuff from the Stig. At least you got the jingle right this time. Yes. Nearly three in 10 workers are furloughed, feel less loyal to their employer post-furlough. Industry news. Business executives

Starting point is 00:37:32 log in sold on Russian hacking forum. Accounts can be used for BEC scams. Industry news. Power banks could infect your smartphone with malware. Industry news. Experts on Klopp ransomware attacking retail giant Elan. Credential stuffing attack. Oh, no. Sorry, he didn't put a line in there. Industry news. He'll read anything if you put it in front of him.

Starting point is 00:38:00 Credential stuffing attack target Spotify, affecting more than 300,000 accounts. Industry news. South Korean retail giant Eland Retail suffers clock ransomware attack. And that was this week's Javs. Javid's Weekly Stories. I see you're recycling your PR and media content for multiple sources on the same story.

Starting point is 00:38:32 What do you mean? Well, Eland Retail suffers Klopp ransomware attack twice. Yeah, so I offer a comment and then different publications pick up the comment. So sometimes it's picked up multiple times. The experts on clock ransomware. That's actually by what's the information security buzz where they just take anyone's comment.

Starting point is 00:39:00 We used to write an article for them. Like we had a regular column in there. Yeah. We had three articles column in there for a couple of years. Yeah, regular column. We had three articles, I think. Yeah. So I'm looking at some of these stories. The business executive's login sold on the Russian hacking forum. This is old news, isn't it?

Starting point is 00:39:18 This was like a few weeks back. This isn't this week's. But this goes by when it's picked up and when the journalist decides to write that story. So if you look at that actual story date, that's from within the last week. So if you're looking for old news, then you can just jump straight to Jav's industry news. If you're looking for Russian news that might not be relevant, might not have all the details, then yes, don't come here. But if you're looking for well-researched, well-thought-out, with all the facts, none of this speculation that Tom offers. What do you mean speculation?

Starting point is 00:39:48 It's informed speculation. And also I only speculate on things which I'm pretty damn sure are right. Okay. Anyway, maybe InfoSec Buzz can return the favour of our three articles and sponsor us. Indeed. In fact, why not?

Starting point is 00:40:08 Host Unknown Sponsored by three articles and sponsor us. Indeed. In fact, why not? You know who you are. Yes, Dr Malik, isn't it? He's the one that was our contact. He took over from Joe, wasn't he? Yeah, he took over from Joe. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I wasn't it? Yeah, he took over from Joe. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I don't know.

Starting point is 00:40:27 I don't know. You never liked that guy when he took over Joe's job, did you? No, no. No, not the same. Not the same. Right, let's move on swiftly to this week's rant of the week, which is me, and it's about Apple. Woo-hoo!

Starting point is 00:40:49 Oh, surprise, surprise. So we know whose side I'm on here straight away. Without even knowing what the story is. Yeah, yeah, Apple's right. So basically, Cydia, who were the first people to create an app store back before Apple had an app store for the iPhone, back with the original iPhone, is suing Apple. So a new lawsuit bought by one of Apple's oldest foes seeks to force the iPhone maker to allow alternatives to the app store, the latest in a growing number of cases that aim to curb the tech giant's power.

Starting point is 00:41:30 So it would come as no surprise that I think this is utter bullshit. See, I was never, I resisted going to an Apple for a very long time. What? Well, I just did. Yeah, everyone, it was just, I don't know if you ever watched Star Trek, but the old Next Gen, there was this episode where everyone had this game that someone had picked up

Starting point is 00:41:53 and they were wearing it like a visor. And everyone was just addicted to it. And Wesley Crusher could see everyone else just sort of walking around mindlessly addicted to this thing. And for me, it was like that. You know know i had my nokia n95 i was happy but watching everyone around me getting these apple iphones and i was like man what was going on like you know the battery life was horrendous compared to you know other phones on the market also had a camera um so i i missed these early days and you know the problem is I then got a free iPhone through work

Starting point is 00:42:25 and I've never looked back, unfortunately. You looked at the back of the case, which was covered in crack, and you were addicted to it. Exactly, yeah. But, yeah, I've never – I didn't know about this old app store. So, you know, I was never there in the early days. So, yeah, pre-app store, which I think came in in ios 2 was it or ios 3 i think it might have been 2 or 2.1 something like that so pre then you you could um there was a

Starting point is 00:42:52 whole subculture and it still is but i think it's it's certainly less prevalent whole subculture of jailbreaking your iphone so you could put other apps on it because the original iphone did not have a lot of stuff for it in fairness i mean you know you could download some apps on it because the original iPhone did not have a lot of stuff for it, in fairness. I mean, you could download some games through iTunes, but they were pretty pants. So if you wanted anything different, you had to jailbreak your iPhone, which of course means removing all the security controls, et cetera. Less of an issue then than it would be now. And then you could download this Cydia app and install it and it gave you access to a whole bunch of other apps. There were some great games on there and great tools and it was excellent.

Starting point is 00:43:32 And my first iPhone I bought from the US and had to crack it to get it to work on the UK network, etc. And I downloaded Cydia and I was a jailbreak freak. Every single version that came out, I would do the latest version and stuff like that. But then the app store came out and it became an overhead, to be honest with you, to maintain, because every time there was an iOS upgrade, you had to wait until you could crack that in order to get access to everything else. And frankly, the App Store was good.

Starting point is 00:44:11 And it was a moderated environment. Apps had to be approved and meet certain standards and all that sort of thing. And everybody talks about the Apple walled garden and how you can only do the stuff to, you know, you can only do the stuff that Apple lets you do. Well, fine. You know, if you don't like that, go to an Android. The thing was, as I saw it, Cydia had had its day. If you wanted to develop for the iPhone, just move to the move to the app store. store. You'd have a better software environment to work in, a guaranteed way of getting your income, et cetera, et cetera, rather than something managed outside. And so I was quite surprised to

Starting point is 00:44:54 read this, that Cydia is suing Apple, because basically they're saying that Apple needs to break its hardware to software to firmware end-to-end control in order to let other people mess around with its system, which I'm not a fan of, I have to say. I'm not a fan of. But how is this different to, you know, Windows went through this about pre-packaging Internet Explorer as the default browser, and they had to open that up so people had a choice

Starting point is 00:45:27 which browser they can install. I guess using the same arguments for that, where Microsoft were accused of having a monopoly, why would Apple not have the same? I found that a little bit bizarre as well, to be honest, because there was nothing stopping you from, I mean, let's face it, Internet Explorer, only job is to download firefox or chrome um but i never understood why there was such a big thing about that if you know

Starting point is 00:45:50 if you didn't like the internet explorer go and download something else and make that work and that way i think the is the the the issue with that was that people that weren't technical and back then there weren't a lot of people that were technical they they would just use whatever was there as default and i think what's wrong with that well it was the antitrust thing the monopoly thing so this is the exact same thing that came to my mind as well i and i've heard like some um even now like as microsoft adds more capability so say like now they have the windows defender and yeah that that's there by default and everything so you could make the same argument for antivirus vendors like you know it's anti monopoly kind of thing or what have you uh but you know like like you say you know that's something

Starting point is 00:46:37 different because like people that are security conscious they can take it off and install whatever they want and then have all the issues with the upgrades and what have you. I think what is different with the Apple case, and I think you rightly pointed it out, Tom, is that Apple own the hardware, the firmware, the software. Yeah. They even make their own chips now. So it's basically that's what the value is. When you think about Apple, that's the value.

Starting point is 00:47:06 Individually, everything is a commodity, but when it's integrated together, that's the real value and that's the value of the business. I think there are a lot of flaws with the App Store, how it works and how it compensates people that create stuff for it. I mean, that's never going to be solved, like, at least in the near future. But there was, like, a lot of pushback, and so they recently changed some of their percentage, I think, for earning less than a million in revenue.

Starting point is 00:47:38 15% rather than 30%. Exactly, exactly. I mean, I still don't think that's completely the right model, but it's a good step. I find that incredible. I just, you know, you're being provided this platform for free. You know, you just have to invest in your people and your skills and you've got your own marketing and distribution channels straight away. You don't even have to build one. There is a lot of value in it, but there's, there are a lot of issues there as well. And, uh, you know, we, we can go into that in,

Starting point is 00:48:13 in, in something more, more in depth, but just on, on, on this thing, I think it, uh, I do agree with you, Tom, uh, that I think this is a case of sour grapes for Cydia. Yeah. And, and why wait so long to rise from the ashes and decide to sue Apple? It's, you know, it's like being a fantastic CD producer and saying, oh, digital music has ruined us. Let's sue Apple. Well, no, you're going to get ahead with the times. Or pivot to Android.

Starting point is 00:48:40 There's your platform. There's your open source platform that allows you to download, you know, as many viruses and malware and ransomware as you want onto your phone crack on that's it not that i have you know i'm biased in the slightest but but yeah i i find you know most i people would complain about the rope that they're hung with sometimes. I just find it amazing the amount, as you say, the sour grapes, but also just the amount of complaining. You mean I have to pay to live in this house? You mean I have to pay for this food to stay alive? It's like, well, unfortunately, that's the way life is.

Starting point is 00:49:19 This is not a fundamental human right of access to somebody else's um you know source code as it were so i don't know but is it uh studio sour grapes or have they just uh seen an opportunity because of antitrust laws yeah they could be that absolutely and yeah well well people sue apple for at the drop of a hat right yeah you Yeah, of course. Why wouldn't you? They've got money. Yeah, yeah, exactly, which is all part of the American… Litigation. You know, we can sue anybody we want, even if it's an entirely invalid case.

Starting point is 00:49:59 It's like the Seventh Amendment or something, isn't it? Yeah, that's right. Sue thy neighbour. Yeah. Yeah, the one after uh arming bears yeah my favorite one was is like those memes you see like where people they they're in like a walmart and there's like a puddle of water on the floor and there's no hallelujah all my prayers have come true about to get paid yeah yeah there's a there's one of the guys uh it's a walmart look the sign's broken outside

Starting point is 00:50:27 one of the letters is hanging off and he's sort of sitting underneath it my brother's about to get paid out here anyway yes i think we we interestingly we tend to align with Apple on this one. All of us, which is... And each other. That's even more scary. And each other, yeah. What the hell's going on? I mean, I'm trying to think of a reason to argue it, but I do think it's a frivolous case.

Starting point is 00:50:58 We could just argue for the sake of arguing with Tom, though. I mean... Well, you do that off-air anyway, so... You're such a fan boy Tom can't you see the monopoly that Apple have yes and I love it rant of the week oh dear show shall we do look back on the year or the little people first let's do the little people before we look back on the year i think we can end on the year okay okay so uh this you you think you've got a little people do you i do have a little person okay for this person far and wide but um i i immediately i found someone he's he's new to the

Starting point is 00:51:40 where he wants to break into the cyber security industry so this is a proper little person who's not even on the register on the radar yet and i went to him and i said like you know why do you want to become secure into security what inspires you and what are you looking forward to next year the little people. Hello, my name is Johnny and I'm a little person because I'm a little person that works in hacking and cyber and because I want to grow up and be a cyber person. And I listen to the Host Unknown podcast because it is so, so good. It is like the best podcast in the whole wide world I really like what all the stories are and I really like the presenters but my favorite has to be Jav he is so good he is brilliant he is my favorite in the world and the other two i think are absolutely rubbish they're just useless you could replace

Starting point is 00:52:47 them with a plank of wood and it wouldn't make any difference anyway keep up the good work jeff and you know stay secure my friends the little people people seriously jeff so i have questions seriously jeff i think we can leave you have one job when a person's not there to defend themselves we can't you have one job which you struggle with every week in fairness you know i think we this is what episode 35. And I can tell you, we've done three, six, nine, 12, 15, 16,

Starting point is 00:53:27 17. We've done 19. So barely half of them have had little people in it. One of which is you. What? No, sounds nothing like me. I wouldn't say anything like that.

Starting point is 00:53:42 Holy. I am so glad we didn't finish on this. Yeah. That would have been, that would have been a letdown. Oh my god. And not only does he pretend to be someone else, he gets the facts wrong. What? That you two are useless, I think. That's absolutely

Starting point is 00:53:59 right. I agree. Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness. my goodness right okay so we don't oh god i don't know well we don't have a jingle stop being rubbish like a plank of wood and carry okay okay all right so in which case should we should we run the jingle for Look Back on the Year? Do you know what we should do is have the Oasis and just play that chorus part where it says, Don't look back in anger. Okay, how about let's do it this way.

Starting point is 00:54:37 Look back on the year. There we go. How's that? Quality people. I think that was good. Right, let's go. How's that? Quality people. I think that was good. Right, let's go. So we started the year with January, as it normally does. As most years do.

Starting point is 00:54:54 So it did start to be a good year. Yeah. Yeah. I went to Oslo in January. I know. At that time, the Ice Cube memes were still rolling. It was a good day. But Travelex, it wasn't a good day for them. They were pulled offline following a malware infection. Not just malware, it was ransomware. The company itself and businesses using the platform to

Starting point is 00:55:21 provide currency exchange services were all affected. I'd like to say there was a happy ending to this. Unfortunately, there wasn't because they went on and once they did recover services, the pandemic hit. And so they actually filed for bankruptcy a few months later. Spoilers, Jav, it's January. pandemic hasn't hit yet Yeah, further on down the line but it all started off in January, well December actually but okay, in January the services were offline so that was January

Starting point is 00:55:53 Okay, we've got to be quicker than this because we've only got three minutes left Well, that was a tough way to start the year wasn't it? So in February Estee Lauder suffered a data breach at the hands of cyber criminals which resulted in the exposure of 440 million records. And so the data breach exposed internal emails and they always give out the line with no evidence that customer records or payment details were at risk. So what the hell was lost then?

Starting point is 00:56:24 Well, good question. Pictures of their models. There were millions of records pertaining to middleware that is used by the Estee Lauder company. So this includes the brands such as Clinique and MAC as well in the US. That's a lot of stuff. Anyway, okay. So this was February.

Starting point is 00:56:47 Again, still things were, I think at this time of the year, we're sort of saying, hey, Korea doesn't look like it's in a good place. No, that's right. And in fact, a couple of companies pulled out of RSA that year as well, didn't they?

Starting point is 00:56:59 Oh, yes. Yeah, RSA still went ahead, didn't it, in San Francisco? Well, Jav and I were there. We took Coast Unknown on the road. I was in Peru, unfortunately, yeah, our estate still went ahead, didn't it, in San Francisco? Well, Jav and I were there. We took Coast Unknown on the road. I was in Peru, unfortunately, in February. That's right, eating marmalade sandwiches. Yes.

Starting point is 00:57:12 Yeah, actually drinking coffee for the first time as well. Oh, yeah, you said that you've only started drinking coffee. Anyway, sorry, let's get back on track, shall we? Something else in Peru that I can't remember quite. I can't put my finger on what was there. Paddington Bear. Anyway. Anyway, no, you're thinking of Colombia.

Starting point is 00:57:34 So March, the start of the lockdown, Marriott, the hotel chain, suffered a cyber attack in which email accounts were infiltrated. 5.2 million hotel guests were impacted again and do we know what the delta is between the previous breach that they had um and this breach because if you recall you know uh marriott after they acquired starwood hotels yeah they'd actually acquired a company that had already been compromised uh and you know what i think that's a really good question, Andy. But, yeah, go on to April.

Starting point is 00:58:09 April, Nintendo said that 160,000 users were impacted by a mass account hijacking account caused by the NNID legacy logon system. Legacy logon system strike again, and I'm sure all those 160k users can find their details in Have I Been Pawned? I'm sure they can. So May, the, oh, I'm trying to do this. So the budget airline EasyJet revealed a data breach exposing data belonging to 9 million customers, which did include financial records. But let's be honest. Well, we're jerks on the criminals because we're all poor people. I was about to say.

Starting point is 00:58:50 You picked the wrong airline to say. They're all prepaid credit cards, mate. You got another one, Andy? So this is about Blackboard, the cloud service provider that was hit by ransomware, you know, who hijacked all its systems. And this company actually paid the ransom to stop client data. We covered this. We did cover this because they only announced it later in the year.

Starting point is 00:59:17 It was around this time. They announced it quite late. But, you know, they sort of made themselves out to be the heroes by paying the ransom. Whereas I think all their impacted clients just wanted them to do security right in the first place. Yeah. I think, Jav, you also missed something from April, which was Host Unknown start their podcast. Oh, yes. No, continue their podcast.

Starting point is 00:59:39 Continue, yes. After the mid-season break that lasted for a year. High ages. Okay, June, University of California, San Francisco, paid a $1.14 million ransom to hackers in order to save COVID-19 research. Bastard. A lot of good that money is now that Americans are saying, we don't want the vaccine. And they still haven't got

Starting point is 01:00:05 it anyway no it's just been approved it's just been approved uh i think uh breaking news this morning ah it was uh overnight for us in the uk it was i tell you what operation warp speed has made sure they got right to the front of the queue on that yeah well i think the fact that everyone else has approved it um yes, Canada approved it yesterday. No, Canada approved it on Wednesday. Yeah, and I think the Americans have just sort of looked around and gone, oh, fuck it, yeah. Might as well, everyone else has.

Starting point is 01:00:35 What's the worst that could happen? Nobody's taking it. July, MGM Resorts, a hacker, put the records of 142 million MGM guests online for sale. Lovely. You can't stay anywhere without having your details done. And the check-in agents are so insistent on taking photos, you know, scans of your passport, print your card. It's just frustrating that they take all this information and can't even protect

Starting point is 01:01:05 it yeah so july we're still uh feeling good about the lockdown now we're coming out the other side looking bright to the future it's nice and sunny in the uk um a company called experience in august sorry this is so in august a companyian, and this relates to their South African branch, they disclosed a data breach which impacted 24 million customers. Amateurs. Amateurs. Looking into the detail of this data-breaking company. So despite it being about a data breach, this wasn't actually a cybersecurity incident.

Starting point is 01:01:45 This looks to be a KYC failing. And it looks like... I know your customer. I know your customer. Oh, right, right, right. Not a bargain bucket. I can feed the family for $9.99. And, yeah, so it looks like they also managed to get the data back.

Starting point is 01:02:03 They tracked down the person responsible, took the data back, and it looks like that person's intention was to mass mail. They took it back. How do they know they didn't make a copy? They took everything from the house. Including the cloud? The South African police don't mess around, Tom. And they took his fingers as well.

Starting point is 01:02:27 This man's been incentivised never to touch a computer again. Chopped his hands off at the wrist. On that lovely note, September, NS8, the CEO of the cyber fraud start-up was accused of defrauding investors out of $123 million. dollars oh this was a great i think we covered this as a billy big ball story uh at one point this was uh this was the ceo that wouldn't let his uh finance team look at the bank accounts yeah oh. Oh, that's brilliant. Jan.

Starting point is 01:03:06 Oh, it's me. God. Sorry. Hold on. October. Dickies. The U.S. barbecue restaurant chain suffered a point-of-sale attack between July and August. Three million customers had their card details later posted online.

Starting point is 01:03:24 Do you know what? i think the devil's in the detail here between july 2019 and august 2020 i didn't i didn't wow okay not just a month but 13 months and here's me thinking oh they picked it up quick well this is what's the uh the average detection time is is like 200 days or something six months roughly something like that i mean it it changes all the time and it depends on who you you know yeah which do you look at which article yeah who's who's sponsoring it yeah exactly yeah as soon as they deploy the ransomware, we detect it. Yeah. Which leads us nicely into November.

Starting point is 01:04:14 And this is one where a fake Zoom invite cripples an Aussie hedge fund with an $8 million hit. And this was a story we covered last month from Jav about the Sydney hedge fund that collapsed after a cyber attack triggered by a fake Zoom invite, which saw its trustee mistakenly approve an $8.7 million fortunate invoice. And the company, although they managed to claw back a lot of the money, they then lost some of their biggest clients as a result of this and ended up going down. some of their biggest clients as a result of this and ended up going down.

Starting point is 01:04:50 A very rare case of actually a cyber attack resulting in the company going out of business. Yeah. It doesn't happen all the time. No. And I think it, so you might be able to attribute some of Travelex's downfall to the ransomware attack, but this is like a very clear cut cut and dry case of yeah phishing attack credentials leaked bc and company collapse i think it's it's something that you know we'll we should look at a lot more carefully in the future that i think you know we we might see a bit more of these kinds of things happening, unfortunately.

Starting point is 01:05:30 OK, and December and oh, look, we're recycling some news here. So FireEye disclosed a cyber attack suspected to be the work of a nation state group, Russia. The cyber security firm said the hack resulted in penetration tools being stolen. And FireEye were very, very good about this. And as we mentioned earlier, I think everybody, or everybody that counts anyway in the industry, has been very supportive and encouraging of FireEye, both in what happened to them and, more importantly, what they did afterwards.

Starting point is 01:06:01 what they did afterwards. And that was our... Look back on a year. I definitely think we should insert the Don't look back in anger. Yeah. I ain't got time for that shit. I've got a day job. Oh, now he has a day job.

Starting point is 01:06:24 Right, folks. I ain't got time for that shit. I've got a day job. Oh, now he has a day job. Yeah. Right, folks, we are at time. Thank you very much. I'll just end on one positive story, which I did see this week, and that is the news that Microsoft has disclosed the fewest vulnerabilities in a month since January. Oh, the story that you've marked as a backup topic rather than an ending.

Starting point is 01:06:46 It is. Well, I just thought let's start something a bit positive. Either they've missed a whole load of vulnerabilities that aren't going to get patched over Christmas. Quite possible. Or they did only just release patches for 58 vulnerabilities across its suite of products. Is that good news or is that just Microsoft doing the job?

Starting point is 01:07:08 I think it's good news. A bit of both. A bit of both, yeah. Who knows? Who knows? Just look, the glass is half full, okay? Let's just go out on a hike. Let's fill it up again as well in that case.

Starting point is 01:07:23 Let's just muddle our audience up just as much as we are before we sign off. Indeed. Thank you very much, folks. We are taking a break. We will be back on the 8th of January, Friday, the 8th of January, one week exactly after the New Year's Day. We will be back with basically exactly the same stuff, to be honest with you.

Starting point is 01:07:48 Nothing's going to change. I very much doubt we'll update any jingles or anything like that. So, yes, Andy, thank you very much for your time today. So we've told Tom that we'll be back on the 8th of January. If you hit that subscribe button on the podcast program that you're using you may hear from myself and jav over the christmas period but have a great christmas and stay secure my friends yeah that's right and uh but the the andy and jav show will be only available to patreon subscribers money in that virtual can we're rattling in front of you

Starting point is 01:08:26 or just go to the host on our own website and you can you can donate there folks stay secure so Host Unknown, the podcast, was written, performed and produced by Andrew Agnes, Juvad Malik and Tom Langford. Copyright 2015, or something like that. Insert legal agreements here as applicable and binding in your country of residence. We thank you. You know, I'd be worried if I didn't know, basically, how lazy both of you are. What are you talking about?

Starting point is 01:09:18 Challenge expected. You know, 2020 has been one of those years, every night, and I think this was a tweet as well, but it just embodies me so much. Every night I go to sleep, think tomorrow's going to be different. I'm going to get up on time. I'm going to work out.

Starting point is 01:09:30 I'm going to be productive. And that's been the case of the whole year. And nothing's changed. I'm going to learn a new language. Order the Aramaic books off Amazon. Yeah. Still not open.

The Host Unknown Podcast - Episode 36 - IT'S CHRIIIISTMAAAAS!

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