The Host Unknown Podcast - Host Unknown Podcast - The Difficult Third Album

Episode Date: April 23, 2020

What we lack in quality we make up for in volume. Here are the presentation skills Andy should have paid attention to: https://youtu.be/bdcX5-4D_Uo Come on! Like and bloody well subscribe!

You know we're recording at the moment. Right, okay. Just make sure you upload the right file and make public the... Dear me. All right, shall we start then? Yeah. And my name's Javad Malik.

Okay. And cue the intro music. You're listening to the Host Unknown Podcast. Hello and welcome to Host Unknown Podcast, which is, gentlemen... More fun than a security vendor's briefing. Yeah, well done, Andy. Pick of the week. pick of the week yeah we're trying to record this a little bit differently last than last week because one last week's went on for nearly an hour uh and two that we had some post-production problems

which meant i was banished from host unknown for about 24 hours whilst I fixed it. Whereas today, you've decided to have pre-production problems and burn the hour up front. So today's episode is going to be six minutes long because... So this is very typical of Tom, and me and Andy were talking about this earlier. So when it comes to starting a meeting, say like you have to start at top of the hour. Andy's the person that usually arrives on time on the hour.

Yeah. I'd arrive five minutes late normally. And Tom actually arrives on time. But then he says, I'm off to make a coffee. And then he disappears for five minutes. Yeah. Yeah. Because that shows I'm on time.

But actually, it's illegal to have a meeting without a hot drink it also shows you're disorganized no it doesn't it means i'm really busy back-to-back meetings and everything so um let us know what would annoy you more someone that is consistently five minutes late or someone that joins on time but then wastes time by saying i've got to go now so you're either asking me or the audience but what i would say though jav is consistently five minutes late is more than aspirational for you to be honest i mean i remember once many years ago when we were doing some filming you had to turn up at eight o'clock in the morning on on site what time did you turn up 10 o'clock which one oh i couldn't

find a shirt oh this is the the ciusp you know yeah it was your guy's fault for also having it hosting it in like some the arse end of london honestly it was your guys' fault for also having it, hosting it in like some... The arse end of London. Honestly, it was such a mission getting there. Just because our director lives in the arse end of London doesn't... You can't get... I came on public transport. You got your own bike.

When is Ballon the arse end of London? Yeah. Well, because it's in the south, isn't it? He's a northern boy. Yeah, exactly. North of the... North of the... North London. North London He's a northern boy. Yeah, exactly. Jav's a north boy. North London.

North London's the only place to be. Anyway, gentlemen, how are we? We're in week five of lockdown, I think, is it? Week five, week six, I don't know. It's all blending into one. So how are we, gentlemen? All good from my side. Can't complain. It's a nice, cool 22 degrees here in the south today. Yeah, it's all good here as well. Recouped the price on the £35 clippers I got. Both the boys have had haircuts. I've had haircuts. We all look terrible, but it's worth every penny. And I will tell you, as we're talking about spending money, I am a convert, and it was Jeff who recommended to me to get a curved monitor.

Ultra widescreen? Yeah. What did you get? So I got myself a Samsung ultra widescreen curved monitor. And if Samsung is listening, there are plenty of sponsorship opportunities. We are available for sponsorship. But I used this monitor to replace my previous samsung tv that i uh decided to try a big 40 inch one it's just too big but um is there such a thing as a too big monitor yeah that was a bit so i was going to bed at like four in the morning because

i think my eye the rest of this has been burned from the back of my eyes. I'd be working in the evening and then go to bed at sort of 2 and I just couldn't sleep. None of that blue light filter. But my new monitor's got like an eye protection mode. Yeah, they're called eyelids. Well, yeah. So it kind of dims the screen. You know, I assume Android have it. Tom, you'll know what I'm talking about, like the nighttime mode,

where it's like a light filter. So my monitor can do that in the evenings, obviously. So basically it looks yellow at night. Yeah, pretty much. Yeah, yeah. Very good. Good? Very good.

So you should be even more productive. Well I am. So the problem I had with a 40 inch monitor was I was creating a presentation and using font size 4. 4? I could see it no problem. On a presentation? Yeah. But then obviously once I used a smaller screen I like, no one's going to be able to read that. Jav, I think you and I did a presentation, sorry, a video on people who did presentations at 4.0

many, many years ago. Dear me. Have you learned nothing from us, Andy? I'll be honest, absolutely not, no. You know me. It's kind of whatever you guys are talking about, in one ear, out the other. You're like my white noise machine as I progress through the day. So if I'm the white noise machine, what's Jav? Oh, here we go. This is like checkmate isn't it that's how do you answer that one without the uh hr departments of uh taking interest

oh dear oh dear host unknown where casual racism is the norm oh dear white privilege at work on on that note I think we should move on to our first little segment a segment we like to call Billy Big Balls of the Week so Jav you've got a a very good billy big balls this week uh who have you got my billy big balls for the week is a gentleman by the name of b r shetty and uh to to those who are very very clued up in the world of security you'll know that he doesn't

work in security he actually is the person that acquired Travelex the money exchange company in 2014 right and they're recently in the news for having a ransomware issue that's right that's right so on new year's eve they had a ransomware attack and all the systems were taken offline they were down completely for several weeks and they reverted to some manual processes and you know it was it was a real cluster so what would manual processes be for a currency exchange that That's definitely a calculator, right? It's something like a calculator. I think they pulled out those old registers,

like with, you know, black pen, blue pen, you know, that kind of thing. Carbon paper. Yeah, the old school bartering system. Yeah, yeah. An abacus. So the ransomware took them down, so they were out for a while and then the the travel bans

kicked in so a lot less people were traveling and i suppose had less need for foreign exchange and all these things came together and and today it was in the news that travel x is now up for sale and and it's uh unfortunate because only last year uh shetty floated the business to uh the wider fin fin abler finabler a group um and it was valued at 1.2 billion this was just last year so that's how much a ransomware can uh uh wipe off your company uh but that that's not where the story ends that that that is just like small fry. You mean there's more? Can you imagine waking up and thinking, how can my life get any worse?

So Shetty also founded this company called NMC. It's a healthcare company. Yeah. And I believe it's under investigation in Dubai for alleged fraud and debts of over 6.5 billion. That's billion with a B and B for big balls. So he lost 1.4 billion and they've got

debt and another company of his has got debts of 6.3? 5 billion. 0.2 of a billion between friends. Split the difference. Yeah. So. Okay, so why is he a Billy Big Balls?

Hey, you don't. Surely that should be a winner, right? Mind you, if he's got, you know, if he's still moving ahead, then I guess that's something. When you rack up numbers like Al Capone sort of territory then I think you deserve to be Billy Big Bulls. We're different leagues here. That guy's definitely in a league of his own.

Oh my god. And I'm worried about my bank overdraft. Exactly. Mind you they do say that if you owe your bank 100 quid it's your problem. If bank 100 quid, it's your problem. If you owe them 100 million, it's their problem. Yeah. Wise words.

Yeah. Wise words. That's why I'm trying to rack up a larger overdraft. I'm trying to work out exactly when it makes it their problem. Excellent. Thank you, Jav. That was our slot of... Billy Big Balls of the Week. So, running up huge debts seems to qualify you for the host unknown

Hall of Fame of some description, or Hall of Infamy. I think we've all been there before. Well, yes, we have. Let he who has not been in crippling debt cast the first stone. I'll give a shout-out to a couple of my friends

who decided to jump the country and leave their debts here in the UK. And there's me sticking around and paying it off. Yeah, and sending the screenshots of your yeah well you send the screenshots of your uh credit card every now and then don't you yeah good times back then good times back then well you're still doing it as far as i'm aware mind you the last one was for a television yeah numbers have dropped significantly i mean as well have and

the purchases have changed category slightly. So now it's more TV based. Yeah, less champagne. Those are rookie numbers. You've got to pop those numbers up, boy. Yeah, you want to get them to Tom Langford 2017 figures. What a year that was, I think.

The cause of and solution to life's problems. Is that a laugh or a cry? I know, I know. This could have gone in either direction. I'm wondering whether I should have bought that out. Maybe we should do a special one. A special podcast on 2017. Tom's memories.

Yeah, if you think 2020's bad. It'll be a short podcast. Well, if we think viewership is dropping, we can always just pull on the heartstrings by like... That's true. Tom 2017 and the uncut version. All the details he left out of the blog post. Do-do-do-do. Do-do-do-do.

Do-do-do-do. Was that a Dave Lee Travis thing or Simon? I can't remember the stories he used to tell on Sunday mornings. Yeah, the radio station. I can't remember. Yeah. Sounds like an old person radio station. I wouldn't know.

Just because you listen to radio that has adverts on it. LBC or Capital or something like that. Dear God. Kiss FM, I'll have you know. Oh, my God. Come on. The BBC, darling. That's all you need to listen to.

Neither of you got Amazon Music. That's the only thing I listen to now. No, I have Apple Music Come on Of course you do The whole family has Apple Music Whether they want it or not So I think we should move on to part two now

We're going to talk about Tweet of the Week The Tweet of the week the tweet of the week and this one's me actually and I'm really looking forward to this one because it actually affects all three of us I'm pleased to say so it's a it's a tweet from IT security guru that's IT underscore SEC guru and it reads congrats to most entertaining blog finalists at naked security no at g cluley no at javad yes at smashing security isn't that at g cluley i don't know uh at the many hats club Club. Not. At Tom Langford. Yes.

And at Gabrielle BGB. Vote now for your winners in the EU Sec Blogger Awards. So, yeah. So, both Javad and I are up for Most Entertaining Blog. But also, Host Unknown is up for another award. Was it the Legends of Cybersecurity? Is that right? It is indeed. it is indeed it is indeed although we don't need a bit of plastic for validation for that no no but if you know if

if if i was given one you know and uh who would we be up against in the uh legends of cyber security just so i'm aware of the competition right, who's got a browser open? Oh, jeez. Okay. Well, I haven't because I'm hosting the thing. I do need to make sure that... Where is it? Oh, there we go.

Let's have a look. No, I got it. I'm finding it. Well, I've got it. You don't do it, I do it. And back to the casual racism. So we've got Gabrielle Blle b blog smashing security the state of security graham clooley uh schneier on security host unknown whoo andy gill zero sec and the beer farmers why is graham in there twice

where is he twice well smashing security andmashing Security and Graham Clew. Well, that's Carol's, isn't it? Smashing Security's Carol's. Graham Clew. Oh, this is true. I always think of it as Carol and Graham. Well, you know, Graham's just riding her coattails. I think so, yeah.

I think so. So, yeah, you've got some stiff competition there. What do you reckon? So I'm actually just looking down the list of nominators. So there's some categories in here, like best Instagrammer. And there's only two categories in there. Yeah. When you hate to come second in that last year our good

friend william lau won the award for best instagrammer he did i guess why is he not in here today i mean he is a bit of a legend on instagram mostly for his food in fairness do we know but he he was taking pictures of security swag so i don't know if that's still ongoing and i know he also started a new job late last year so that may have put the kibosh on um and he had some time out as well so that may put the kibosh on uh on him sort of pushing that blog but yeah it's it's uh it's a shame he's not there to defend his title all right and i noticed there's no category for the best tiktoker which uh i believe i would fall into these days probably because they didn't want to see any content that you might produce

quite scary but anyway that was my tweet of the week because that's a big celebration of the type of quality that you're currently listening to we don't go in for long um silent pauses and things like that we we you know we're the no dead air on here we we certainly know where to draw the line um and our content is second to none especially if you want to hear about curvy monitors big 40-inch tvs and um indian entrepreneurs dodgy ind entrepreneurs absolutely absolutely so yeah that's a good tweet of the week there tweet of the week

so these blogger awards they're going to be good fun I think they're going to be virtual this year aren't they virtual that's right but they've asked for everybody's address which is interesting for a surprise oh yeah i know debt collectors so they know where to send the invoice to yeah yeah so it's it's the lovely folks at uh skenzi are sorting this out. Is that correct? Eskenzi PR and Marketing.

That's right. Eskenzi PR and Marketing. PR and marketing needs. And sponsorship needs, maybe. Well, they are one of the best PR firms in security, in my opinion. I've worked with them for a number of years. They are lovely, lovely people. And they're just crying out to sponsor a podcast or

something like that i hear i believe so yeah they should absolutely in fact you know we could put them in contact with a few people if they're interested but yes they've been running it for the last few years it's done a marvelous job and as you say lovely lovely people some you know the best PR and marketing company in the in the security world and yes Yvonne and Neil we thank you going a bit Trump esque there on the the whole Fox News promotion going what we What are we talking about? Look, we need sponsors. What can I say? Are we not, can we not furlough Host Unknown? Can we not just take some cash?

We've been on furlough for about 18 months. No, that was a sabbatical. That's different. Or a hiatus. Oh, yeah. Yeah, a hiatus yeah yeah oh yeah that that's right so when you're on a sabbatical you're not being paid when you're on furlough you are so uh so yeah when you know when you're going to release some of that money andy well you know living in a sabbatical is not cheap so uh the bad news is...

Oh, dear. Yeah, those curve monsters aren't going to pay for themselves, Andy. No. We need to attract all the big names to this podcast because this shit isn't going to sell itself. As we have so plainly seen so far with the wild success of last week's podcast. What, we've done a podcast? Did you publish it?

Yes! I mean, I know the viewing figures don't quite reflect the fact that it was published, but it went out there. It went out there. I slaved over it, published it about midnight, worked. It's there. I even had somebody give it a thumbs up. So definitely there.

Easy mistake to make. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, they meant to hit the other button. I don't know. Andy, I think it's time for rant of the week because we're floundering here and you've got a cracking proper story on this um so i'm gonna hand over to you andy for rant of the week Go for it. Okay.

That's my cue, right? So should we actually explain to people why there's these awkward silences? Because we're a bit short today, aren't we, Tom? We're having some technical difficulties. So none of us are seeing or hearing the cues that we should be having. No, not yet not yet okay not

yet we'll be fine next week's next week's will be fine it's a slick oil well-oiled machine this podcast you know this is how you know tom used to be a cso at a global corporation he's all about investing up front in technology not having the resources to configure it properly and then saying screw it we're going back to the old ways didn't even uh didn't even uh you know check for uh the need for what we actually needed or wanted it's just uh hey you took the mickey out of me for for doing it and now you're taking out taking the mickey out of me for not doing it i'm like you can't win no you really can't well actually i don't know why i'm surprised at that because yeah i know i can't right so i mean this is sound and that's this is sound like your rant tom or is it your rant is

you guys ranting at me yeah yeah yeah go on you go so uh yeah so my rant is about Tom not being able to... No, it's... So it is a story about some of... Some people may be familiar with the Snoopers Charter, or its official name, I believe, is the Investigatory Powers Act, under which these are surveillance laws in the UK in which internet and telcos must retain communications data for up to a year and the reason this has been such a I guess a controversial topic is the I guess the barriers to access that data so historically you know when it first came out you just needed someone senior in the police to say, yes, there's a valid need to access this data.

So that was kind of this was in 2016 and that was kind of changed around about 2017. But now there's, you know, some five additional bodies have been added to the companies who can officially access this data. And they include the insolvency service and the pensions regulator which is a very interesting one because you may be wondering what do they need to know about this stuff

why does the pensions regulator need to see your browsing history and the insolvency people what's that to check your shopping list so the insolvency service stating they do it to investigate breaches of company director disqualification orders, which is obviously a very... What, through your browser history?

Well, it's a very... Surely they just looked that up at company's house? Yeah, well, they need to be able to attribute subscribers to telephone numbers and analyze itemized billings, as well as be able to see what IP addresses are accessing specific email accounts. So it's quite a broad. I mean, if anyone knows anything about data collection and then data analysis, you know how difficult it is to sift through, yeah you know sort of vast amounts of data um so yeah i mean i i would suggest uh you know reading up on this the uh the snoopers charter check uh l reg um i i will say i'm not familiar with many of the writers there these days but um no uh you know still good stories as opposed to the one that we used to know as opposed to the one that we did know

hey John big up John so yeah check it out do you want to be a sponsor John the Snoopers Charter so if the insolvency folks want to know about directors that are disqualified

we could help them out to start that list so what I'm more interested in is what the uh what the pensions fund would would want nice segue there sir nice move so the uh the pensions fund so the reasons they are uh looking at the data is um they want to be able to what's the phrase they use, to delve into anyone's emails so it can secure compliance and punish wrongdoing. Of what? Grammar? Punish wrongdoing of sending a heated email, a flamer. This is the regulator that checks that companies have added employees into their pension schemes. So I think the whole thing is this whole sort of mass surveillance state that's sort of coming through the back door.

But how does accessing email do that? You add people through your pension provider. Ah, but if the company's not doing it then you know the regulator wants to search search evidence that it's happening or not happening i'm not sure that email is the right place for that to happen email web browsing it's not it's just give us all the data that's what they want they just want access into the network it's um yeah it's one of those stories that you know you want to get worked up about but there's so much to read on the topic you know yeah and actually actually i got

you know bigger issues right now right speaking of whatever speaking of getting worked up about um these sorts of issues shall we try to get rowena fielding on our podcast next week and ask for her opinion? Yeah, we want to limit it to an hour, though, in fairness. No more than. But yes, absolutely. Rowena, if you're listening, please give us a shout and come and join us. And explain to us exactly why the pensions fund wants access to our personal data. Well, I think she'll tell us why they shouldn't have access to it well without a shadow of a doubt because rowena is very uh well she's very hot on privacy without

you know as everybody who's met her knows and probably more knowledgeable than any of us so it doesn't take much on most things basically i mean we're talking to an ex-iso an ex-analyst and and you andy are we still not sure what you do i love the fact that no one knows what i do it's uh i mean when are you guys going to realize i don't even work in infosec but you guys keep adding me to you know all of these events and stuff it's like i've got my own marketing job to do you know well you need to do a better job because we don't see much of you well tom gave lee a job yeah i'll give anyone a job and he was stacking shells in a in a supermarket before then so yeah working as a waitress in the cocktail bar is... As Depeche said.

It was Depeche Mode. Spandau Ballet. Oh, Schumann Lee. They all blur into one. I mean, my next one was going to be Duran Duran. I guess the 60s was more your era, wasn't it? We're talking about Beach Boys. that's where your knowledge resides.

Proper skiffle beat combos. Oh, dear. Good rant, Andy. I think we almost got a little bit serious there. Almost. Let's not dwell on it too much. Well, I mean, with what's going on at the moment, it's just about burying all these uh uh you know these power these are things that people have wanted to try

and slip in before and it has actually been um judged to be illegal twice in the past um you know incompatible with human rights as well yeah or eu human rights so it's um ah that's why we left the eu yeah well exactly why not uh because i want to be able to see your browsing history yeah so we left the eu so they can see our browsing history and not be able to buy ppe exactly and put up 5g masks don't forget about that absolutely don't know anyway thank you Andy for that rant of the week

great so we've got one other section left which may or may not be broadcast we will soon see Jav would you like to introduce the little people are we talking about little people yes yes you know the jingle you just heard oh yes the jingle i just heard which i clearly heard clearly so this section is called the little people where we we like to help promote not just the big names in the

industry because we are fake let's face it we are an industry that likes to build up heroes and you know then tear them down as well but that's beside the point it's very much a a cult of personality within the security industry so what we like to do is to focus on someone that doesn't get the recognition that we feel that they deserve the unsung hero if you will or as we like to call them the little people i always feel like we should get a government grant for doing this kind of stuff. Yeah, we should get money. Well, I told you. I was talking the other day on the old group chat about this company,

without giving away too much about what I do. But there was a company I was working with based in one of these co-working spaces. I thought you were going to say Australia. Yeah, okay, it was in Australia. But a very expensive co-working space right in the centre of downtown financial district. But it was all paid for by

Microsoft because they were granted that space for being a start-up. So there is some help out there if you are starting your own company. If you're looking for an office, you want to work with like-minded people. And these aren't sort of like the old school desks

which are just close together. You get some big space in these places, dedicated meeting rooms, fridges full of drinks, guest speakers in every day, and just resource on tap. I mean, I have no idea how these places make money and i assume it's some kind of tax write-off um maybe jeff you can help me understand that a

bit better but um you know there are these things that are out there so it's uh i'm not quite sure how we got onto that but something just made me think of it yeah yeah um google campus does that as well so there's a google campus in london yes and i know i i applied for some office space there and basically i think they look took one look at my uh technical record and said not a chance sunshine right so go to go to try azure man try microsoft yeah well that's well i do i'm a mic house, but I'm not exactly doing any cutting-edge stuff on there by any stretch. Mostly email and Teams. So automate some of your Excel stuff.

Get someone to write it for you into your invoice management system, your game changer for the industry. There we go. So that you're developing it, or rather you're paying someone in a cheaper resource area to to do the work for you and uh i'm sure they will sign you up oh they'll just throw themselves at me i'm sure because because that 50 quid a month i'm paying them for my uh oh three six five you know that's um that's good that's going to be showing up a month then i think they will definitely give you the space because that's going to be showing up on there. If you're paying 50 quid a month,

then I think they will definitely give you the space because that's quite a high amount of money for a business account. Well, it's for three... Well, it's a whole bunch of stuff anyway. It's not that much for what I've got. Really? Yeah. I mean, I know you can get it cheaper,

but I've got a whole bunch of services under there as well a whole bunch of other stuff it's the E3 plus a bunch of other stuff added on and that's for currently three accounts I'm sure you can get it cheaper from keygen.exe or something

I'm just kidding I do pay for my software which is why I'm curious about that price, because I certainly don't pay that amount. I'll send you an invoice. You're always billing me for your time, man. I'm not counting this as consultancy. Stop doing that. No, no, no. This isn't consultancy. This is you paying my Microsoft bill for a month. This isn't consultancy.

This is you paying my Microsoft bill for a month. So, you know, you kind of like say it as a joke, but I don't know whether I mentioned this to you guys, but Adrian Sanabria and Haroon Mir, they done a closing keynote at Virus Bulletin last year. And Adrian, as part of it, he took a delve into the murky world of awards. And he set up a fictitious company and he created a fictitious cmo on linkedin for that and what he ended up doing was um applying for a bunch of awards and there's a whole series of these awards like the stevies and

some others that said okay basically pay us a grand or two grand and uh we'll give you an award and uh so he paid for a few and he goes literally you turn up and it's like going to the cloakroom you turn up with your tag you give it to them they look at the number and they hand you your award and then to a side there's a little sort of like stage area where you can just you just walk up there there's some people there and official photographer if you want to pay for that part as part of your package as well and uh you get your photograph taken and and it bobs your uncle so you can get awards for do it for absolutely nothing but um the the other thing he said that was funny was his fake CMO posted on LinkedIn, happy to announce that our fake company won these awards.

And within a week or so, he actually got a legit Silicon Valley company approach his fake CMO and offer him or show interest in offering him a job as a CMO at their company. or show interest in offering him a job as a CMO at their company. I'm not pointing any fingers, but don't both you two guys point to your award cabinets and the highly awarded status of your activities in this industry? Yeah, but our awards come from valid sources that have real parties and real people at them and let's face it if there's a party then it's a valid award yes even if it is being paid for by sponsorship money but you know of which in many cases I have been a sponsor yes but I you know that

the two things are entirely unrelated a bit like jav winning awards at the um bloggers awards where he's a judge yeah strange strange how that happens every year he's been a judge he's won an award it's it's fascinating no no let's see again this is just like slandering my good name first the casual racism and now dragging my name through the mud. Merely bringing up data points for other people to join the dots on. See, these were voted for by the public. The judges have no influence over it. Then why have judges?

Why have judges then? I am the people's champion. Why have judges? If the judges have no input, why have a judge? Well, they're for like admin issues technically. I'll tell you what. champion and that why have judges if it's if the judges have no input why have a judge well therefore like admin issues technically i'll tell you what i'll tell you what if you think it's so easy why don't you give up hours and hours out of the year to dedicate to helping the community and you know judging something and putting it together oh i have oh i have i've been a judge on something

and it did take hours i have to say but but then again it what there wasn't you know it wasn't like the public had a vote it was purely judged on their on their actual capabilities by the people called the judges not not not by some sort of voting and then judges saying, maybe we don't agree with that. Anyway, so the whole idea is that I think it is very, very possible for us as host and known to actually come up with a product and it doesn't even need to work. Like Andy said, it can just be your accountancy automation thing as long as you market it in the right way and you position it in the right way say it's an app for your phone and it's like whatever then you can get your space at google or microsoft or whatever so i think we

should make that for for next year a target. We get Tom a space at one of these fancy co-working places. I'd go for that. Yeah, that's good. As soon as it's in his benefit, Tom agrees to partake in fraudulent activity. Especially when it's not going to cost him anything as well.

That's what he said. Although, let's be truthful about this And the app needs to be called something like The app that doesn't work Yes Because you've still got your morals right I've still got my morals

And my principles I'm going to do a quick Subject change here because I'm conscious Time's ticking down because we've spent so much time You know trying to connect and you know standard uh issues um it's ramadan isn't it i was wondering if we had anyone on the line who was able to uh talk us through what this means and what's going to be happening oh very good yeah tomorrow it it will start ramadan so um i shall be observing it like I do every year.

As do I. So when we come to record next week's podcast, you're going to be a miserable bastard. Just like every other Ramadan you've been. Because we all remember that time at Rant. Oh, yeah. At the Rant. When we were hosting Rant.

And literally in between, folks, this is, we're opening the veil on this somewhat uh but in between every single session that we had to introduce and all that while the session was going on jav was just mumbling under his mouth under his breath like it was a waste of time no it was a waste of time i don't know No, it was a waste of time. I don't know why we did this. And then it was suddenly, ah, hello, we're back to, and, you know, the next talk would start. I don't know why we bothered. And then we went out for dinner after dark, and he was lovely.

Do you think the fact that we were missold and mistold what our position would be be what our involvement would be whether it was like oh you've got three minutes in between prepare so we prepared jingles we prepared lines we prepared everything and then it was like oh no you've only got 10 seconds quickly introduce the next person in 10 seconds and then shut up and then it was like oh we're running a bit behind schedule so you can like fill up time with more stuff that had nothing to do with it at all no i mean i do recall andy and i sort of adapting and improvising and overcoming and you just you know moaning under your breath but you

know maybe that was just me anyway i i also remember that was the night that you stole jemma patterson's phone i didn't because i was in the photographs as i recall what's that we run out of time what unbelievable yeah yeah yeah we we need to cut this right now jemma i know you're listening i'm sorry sorry, again. It was pre-2017, what can I say? So, folks, thank you very much on that incriminating note. Let's draw to a close. Thank you both. It's been lovely as always.

We can say the same. And we'll play a quick jingle for our sponsor this week. Oh, quick jingle, yeah. So this could be you there you go um we may even record one just for you. I'm not sure. It depends if I can find the invoice from the guy who did those about three or four years ago. But, yeah, that could be you. That could be you.

Maybe I should be looking this time. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, all those samples I managed to get. But, yes, sponsors, we're still looking for you. Eskenzi, we're definitely looking at you because you're lovely and wonderful and thank you gentlemen a pleasure as always and

say goodbye to the little people out there goodbye little people blimey I've worked with better trained monkeys anyway what were you doing working with monkeys? So basically I've got this story about these monkeys. I'm going to tell Carl Baskin about your animal abuse.

I'll tell you what I was doing working with monkeys, Jav. Recording a podcast. Goodbye, folks. Cheers. goodbye folks cheers host unknown the podcast was written performed and produced by andrew agnes javad malik and tom langford copyright

2015 or something like that insert legal agreements here as applicable and binding in your country of residence we thank you and we're out oh man you are so useless tom without the jingles it's weird what do you mean so useless without the jingles help it flow a lot better it does yeah definitely