The I Love CVille Show With Jerry Miller! - Barbara Shaw Joined Nate Kibler Live On “The White Mountain Ministries Show”

Episode Date: June 25, 2024

Barbara Shaw of Heart of the Home Family Ministries joined Nate Kibler live on The White Mountain Ministries Show! The White Mountain Ministries Show airs live Tuesday from 2:30 pm – 3:15 pm on The I Love CVille Network. Watch and listen to The White Mountain Ministries Show on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn, iTunes, Apple Podcast, YouTube, Spotify, Fountain, Amazon Music, Audible and iLoveCVille.com.

Welcome to the White Mountain Ministry Show. I am your host, Nate Kibler. I thank you for listening. I thank you for watching. I thank you for praying. And I thank you for being a part of what the Lord is going to do today through this show. Hey, this ain't church, y'all, but this is all about the kingdom of God. I want to once again thank our guests from last week, John and Linda Martin. They were amazing. They were powerful. The feedback we received was really amazing. The people that were impacted through the show, through John's teaching, through Linda's testimony. So once again, we thank you. But now we are going to focus on today. And we have a very dear friend of mine on the show today. This is Barbara. Some call her

Bobby. Some call her Barb Shaw. We're honored to have you with us today, Barbara, with the heart of the home, Family Ministries in Timberville, Virginia. Thank you, Nate. Thank you for the opportunity to be here. I'm very excited. I'm excited about what the Lord is doing and what he wants to share with the people today. Yes. So we're going to talk about in a few minutes how we met because you are our kingdom connection today. And it was a beautiful God orchestrated relationship. But before we go there, can you just tell us a little bit about you, about your ministry? Yes, I'm a mom. I'm a wife. I'm a Mimi. I have three grandchildren, and I have four children and my husband, and we have a ministry in Timberville called Heart of the Home Family Ministries. It started out as a business ministry, and from that, a church was birthed after six years of intercession

and it's growing and we're a family there and lots of the love of the father and good things are happening very exciting yeah so you talk about being led by the holy spirit this woman it's one thing to be filled with the holy spirit it's another thing to be led by the Holy Spirit. This woman, it's one thing to be filled with the Holy Spirit. It's another thing to be led by the Spirit. And this is a Holy Spirit-led woman with everything that she does in her life. So we talk about, I think it was about three and a half years ago when Barbara and I first met. We didn't actually meet in person. This was during COVID.

And it wasn't even a Zoom call. It was actually a conference call that we had both been invited to be on. And we couldn't even see each other. There was a young lady on the phone who didn't know the Lord. She didn't know why God would love her. She was dealing with all kinds of things in her life. I asked her if I could pray for her. She said, yes, I prayed for her. The Lord touched her powerfully. We actually found out a week after that night, that young lady actually gave her life to the Lord. And as soon as I prayed that night, that young lady actually gave her life to the Lord. And as soon as I prayed that night, Barbara said, what's your name? And I told her, she said, the Holy Spirit just told me that you are supposed to come and preach at my church.

Didn't know anything about me, had never seen me, but she heard the voice of the Lord and she was obedient to that. And so we started to get to know each other a little bit on the phone. I came to preach to the heart of the home and a beautiful partnership in the spirit was established. And she's been a great influence, a great impact in my life. And she's doing amazing things for the kingdom of God. So Barbara, I don't know if you want to talk about that at all again, about how we met, you know what what that looked like for you yeah nate it was amazing because um i heard you and the way that you were sharing the love of god and just the truth from the word of god to this young woman uh was so life-giving and and the holy spirit that's what he does he prompts me when there's somebody he wants to have come share at our church and

things like that so i said okay yes lord it's church. And so we made that connection. And then just the more I got to know you, your beautiful family, your wife, and your children, and just what you guys are doing in the kingdom of God, it just was such a heart connection and just this covenant relationship like family. And so now here we are, and it's beautiful what the Lord's doing. Absolutely. So Heart of the Home is actually our family's home church now, and it's been a great blessing.

And, you know, we live in Ruckersville. We actually drive over an hour to come to church, and some people don't understand that. But, you know, it's not about going where you're comfortable or about going where you're close. You go where the Lord leads you. And he led us to the heart of the home and it's been such a blessing. But so look, Barbara, when you, something that I love about you is you really do know the heart of the father. And there's a lot of people that, you know, it's like when they walk into the room, I know Jesus is there because of the power, the authority, the

gifting that they carry. But when Barbara Shaw walks into the room, I know that Jesus is there because of the power, the authority, the gifting that they carry. But when Barbara Shaw walks into the room, I know that Jesus is there because love is in the room. And you can feel the heart of the Father, the love, the joy that you have for so many people when you walk into the room. And I know such a big part of your message is sharing the heart of the Father. And I believe it really all starts with the heart of the Father, because how can we know who we are? How can we know who He is in us if we don't actually know His heart, His character, His desires for us, and all those things? Can you please just open up and tell us about the heart of the Father? Nate, you're 100% right. And because the love of God changed my life. And that is really my life message. He gave me, years ago, this scripture.

And if you don't mind, I'd like to read it. Of course. It's in Ephesians chapter 3, verses 14 through 21. And it says, For this reason I bow my knees to the Father. It says Father. Of our Lord Jesus Christ, from whom the whole family, and so there's certain words I'm going to pick up on, but Father and family, from whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, that he would grant you according

to the riches of his glory to be strengthened with might through his spirit in the inner man. That Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. That you be enrooted and grounded in love. In love. May be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the width, the length, the depth, and the height. To know the love of Christ. To know it by experience. Which passes knowledge that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.

Now unto him who is able to do exceedingly abundantly above all that we ask or think. According to the power that works in us to him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus to all generations forever and ever amen um I wanted to memorize some scripture Nate and um the Lord strategically led me to this and I didn't know it was going to be a divine setup, but basically it was. For me, I was just wanting to memorize scripture, but he led me to this portion, and this is like life, my life verses right now. What happened when I started to memorize these scriptures, and I would say them over and over and over, the truth of God's word started to be planted deep within my heart. And his love started to be revealed to me. I grew up in a denomination and I knew that Jesus died on the cross and I knew, I had head knowledge that he loved me, but I really struggled with feeling that love.

And as far as God was concerned, I was actually afraid of him. I believed that he was up there in heaven looking down, waiting for me to mess up so he could put the hammer down. And I was afraid to approach him. I didn't have a relationship with the Father of God because I never felt like I was good enough. I never felt like I could measure up to his standards. I always felt like I was falling short of what he wanted. It was this set of standards I didn't really comprehend or understand, but no matter what, it just never felt like it was enough. And I lived that way for many, many years. And at one point, I even walked away from God in my 20s because I felt like I'm never going to be able to make it to heaven.

That was like 10 years ago? No. I wish. Just got to keep it light. Yeah, many, many years ago and so anyway what happened was um i just told the lord one night in the church service because every service i was at the altar begging god to forgive me again and um i just told god that night i said i'm not going back up there because i'm never going to be able to make it i just can't. And the Lord spoke to me that night. One of the first

times I ever remember him speaking to me, but he said, you will make it. And I left the church and went back into the world and everything. However, the Lord never let go of me. He was pursuing me and he knew he had a plan and he was going to reveal truth to me at some point yeah well it's it's not the uh it's not the the wrath of god it's the the goodness of god that leads man to repentance amen and um you know so you've opened up about this a lot that for kind of what you're talking about now that you were really in religion for a long time and and so many people we don't look the pharisees didn't know that they were called in religion right and and and it's still going on in the church today that's like an understatement and we don't even really know what we're doing most of us i don't even think most christians we actually don't even

really know what the kingdom of god is so when you explain a little bit what that looked like of coming out of religion and into a life in the kingdom. In my late twenties, I found a book, Power in the Blood. It was by Benny Hinn. And at that point, I had a revelation moment of knowing that it wasn't up to me to save myself. Now, when I came to Jesus, I knew he was saving me from my sins. But then from that point forward, I thought it was up to me to keep me saved and to be good enough. And it was a constant years of striving and struggling and striving and struggling. Always feeling guilt, shame, condemnation. Never able to live up to the standards that I thought he wanted. And I really felt like he was not pleased with me all the time. And I can't even tell you the bondage that is, Nate.

You live that day in, day out, and you don't really realize the weight of that heavy burden that you're carrying. But boy, when you get freedom, it is life. It is life. And you come out of that darkness. And so then there was a situation later in my 40s when I was in a church. It was early 40s. And there was a situation that happened, and a woman lost her life tragically. And I really began to like question God about everything that I had grown up believing.

And I didn't understand why I wasn't seeing things in the church like I had seen them in the Bible. And why weren't people getting healed? And when they weren't getting healed, why was God getting blamed when he told us to heal the sick, when he told us to raise the dead, when he told us to, you know, preach the gospel, do these things, but yet it's like if those things didn't happen, well, the blame went back on God instead of realizing that we've been given the responsibility and the authority and the power to go out and in Jesus' name do the same works that Jesus did. So I had all of these things stirring in my heart and I started to cry out, Nate, with everything in me. I have a journal. I should have brought it today

to show you, but pages of questions, not just, I don't understand why it looks this way but the Bible looks this way yeah and so um I started saying I want truth God I want truth I want truth I want truth and as I cried out for truth he heard that cry and he brought me the help that I needed he started to reveal that truth to me he put a woman in my life named Ann Hoover, who was a tremendous mother in the faith, a powerful woman of God. Yeah, ha, ha, ha, that sort of thing. She's full of joy, full of the love of the Lord, and full of the word of God, full of truth. She started speaking into my life. But she was telling me things that went completely opposite of things I had grown up believing.

Nate, I actually thought that it was too good to be true. And I was scared because this religious spirit, and it is a spirit, it really is a spirit. It tries to grab hold of you and not let you go. And when truth starts to come to you, it tries to make you want to run from it, make you afraid of it. And so I was afraid and I was like, Lord, this just sounds too good to be true. Like, is it really true that, you know, you've forgiven all of our sins, that I'm not condemned anymore, that I don't have to walk around with guilt and shame and all the benefits of the finished work of the cross of Jesus Christ? I just, it was hard for me to believe. So I kept saying, Lord, don't let me believe a lie. Don't let me believe a lie. But all those years I had been believing the lie, but then he started to bring truth. And as I started receiving,

Nate, I would open up my Bible after I started to receive this truth. Scriptures I had read for years that didn't mean a whole lot. All of a sudden the Bible became a lie. Scriptures, and it was everywhere. After truth started to get revealed and the scales fell from my eyes and the veil was lifted, the veil of religion was taken away, I could start to see the truth in the word of God and it became alive. And so that's how the Lord started to pull me out of that. And then that's really when he started to lead me into the love of the father. Yeah. So some of the things I hear you're saying in scripture that we're not saved by our works, we're saved by grace through faith. And to be able to see ourselves the way that God sees us, because most Christians, people in the church,

we do not see ourselves even close the way he sees us. We see ourselves as dirty. We see ourselves as our old identity. And, you know, as Colossians 1 even tells us, we are wholly blameless above reproach in his sight. Amen. To see ourselves as wholly blameless, that we are no longer slaves to sin, that we are slaves to righteousness. Amen.

I mean, the people that I've sent to Romans 6 over the years, look, guys, if you're watching, listening, if you don't know Romans 6, read Romans 6 and just learn to, okay. I have that. You talk about seeing, reading scripture and not believing it. The number of people that I have sent to Romans 6 and I have said, look, not argue because it's not about being right. It's about being righteous. But if you're walking around, you've given your life to Jesus. You still see yourself as your old identity. You still see yourself as a sinner.

Just look at it from this new perspective, you know, that you actually have new life and you are now a saint. Amen. That you're a child of God and see what that scripture will do for you. I have had people that have read that scripture and seen it from that light that had been stuck in religion their whole life that read that scripture and actually got delivered just from the truth that they received. Others that have read it and said, I see what it says, but I don't believe it. Because we've been lied to our whole life. But this gospel, it's not a message of bondage. It's a message of freedom,

and we are free. Yeah. And it's good news, Nate. It's not fear, guilt, condemnation. It's good news. And it's good news because he's a good father. And that is what just radically changed my life. I mean, it was so freeing. And I have this tremendous desire for other people to walk in that. You know, a couple years ago, Nate, the Lord just spoke to me and he told me, he said, my people, now he's not talking about people in the world that don't know him. He's talking about people in the churches that belong to him, his children. He said, my children are dying because of guilt and shame. And I'm like, what, Lord, what? And he said, yeah, because the weight of that guilt and shame that they're carrying, Nate,

is actually causing physical problems. It's causing mental anguish. It's causing all kinds of situations in their hearts and in their lives and relationships even. And it separates us from God. It does. It crushes our intimacy with Him. Yeah, because we can't go to a God that we're afraid of and that we feel like we're dirt. I wonder if we're going to get a spanking.

Exactly. Exactly. And so what happened was he showed me how Jesus died on the cross for our sins, but he also took all the shame and all the guilt from everything we've ever done in our life that the enemy would try to use against us to make us feel less than. Yes, that's right. Jesus bore that on the cross. And you know what? We don't have to carry it. If he paid for it and he carried it for us, why would we want to carry such a burden? And after I got that, I got freedom in that area in a big way. And he showed me how so many people are still, they love him, they love the Lord, but they don't

know how to walk in that freedom. Right. We love him, but we don't know him. Right. Hey, thank you guys for watching. Look, I forgot to share this at the beginning, but if you're watching live, comment, tell us where you're calling in, where you're watching from, where you're listening from, and share the show, guys. We don't have a, we're a new show. This is episode number four, and, you know, we don't have a platform of a million followers or a million, you know, people that are watching the show, so please share it because these shows are getting shared to people that are meant to see, you know, meant to have this truth that will pierce their hearts from these guests, from these anointed men and women of God. And so just share it. If you're getting fed by this, if you're being blessed by the show, share it.

And so, Barbara, you know what love looks like. So can you tell us what love looks like it looks like jesus and because that's who he is that is who he is and that is who the father is they are love it's the most powerful force in the universe it's the love of god and when i started to get a revelation, Nate, in my heart, you can hear for years and years and years that God is love. You can have a head knowledge of it, but until it becomes reality right in here in your spirit, where on the deep, on the inside of you, it is truth and you can't be budged off of it that you know that you know that you know absolutely know that God is a good father and that he loves you until you have that revelation on the deep on the inside of you and it's truth to you a lot of times you're striving

and struggling but when you come to that revelation and you know that God is love and that you are loved, it's like this, Nate. Everything, every area in my life after I experienced the love of God, started to experience it, every single area of my life started to change. Because his love was invading every area in my marriage, in my family, with my children, finances. I'm talking everything, Nate. Love is our greatest weapon. It's, I mean, you're right. It is. It's powerful.

Yes. It's so powerful. Yes. It's so powerful. All right. So we are going to step into something new now that is going to lead into some of the real juicy stuff. Right? Okay. We're going to talk a little bit about the five-fold ministry, which when we talk about the five-fold ministry, we're going to go into Ephesians 4, verse 10. Now, the Bible doesn't specifically say this is the five-fold ministry, but this is what the five-fold ministry is referred to in Scripture. So Ephesians 4, 10.

This is going to be a little bit of our word of the week. So I felt in my heart not to do this at the beginning of the show because this is what we're going to step into right now for this portion all right he who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens in order to fill the whole universe so christ himself gave the apostles the prophets the evangelists the pastors and teachers to equip his people for works of service so that the body of christ may be built up until the end of the book of Acts. It actually does not say that, but that's what we think is that apostles and prophets are no longer needed for today. We hear that a lot, right?

It actually says so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ. So do we think that we have all attained unity in the faith and in the body of Christ? That is a rhetorical question because the answer is no. We have different denominations all across the board. Jesus never intended for us to do this. And we need prophets. We need apostles. We need pastors. We need teachers. We need evangelists. And look, these are gifts. Like we have in 1 Corinthians 12, we talk about the gifts of the spirit. These gifts are gifts and callings that are given to us by Jesus. Okay. And Jesus was,

he was the apostle of apostles. He was the prophet of prophets. He was the evangelist of evangelists. He was the pastor of pastors. He was the teacher of teachers. Amen. And again, you know, some say that it's not for today, but guys, I can look at churches and I think that we've gotten good at delegating some responsibilities all right we have children's pastors we have lead pastor we have you know missionary pastors but i feel like the lord put this on my heart today that we've gotten good at delegating roles but we don't know how to delegate the callings. In the fivefold, one person was never intended to hold all five roles for the church. Exactly. Because what the modern day church has become is pastor, pastor, pastor, pastor, pastor,

and it's not how we're intended to operate. That's right. We're called to have the prophets. The prophets are important in the church. The apostles are important in the church. And, you know, look, here's the thing that why we do this, because we are not being taught this. We're not being taught these things. You know, I'm so grateful the Holy Spirit didn't say, you know, the night he set me free, Nathan, I need you to go to seminary and start a church.

Because we think that we have a calling on our life for the kingdom of God. We know we have a calling on our life for the kingdom of God, but we just think because what the, you know, what the church world has taught us, it's like, okay, then I'm going to go to seminary. I'm going to become a pastor and I'm going to start a church. But do we know the number of people that went out and started churches that that was never their calling? God will still honor it. God will still bless them. But a lot of these churches fail because they were never even intended to be started. You know, if you're an apostle, if you're a prophet and you're trying to hold the role of a pastor, that can be very, very challenging.

And very challenging. Yeah. Yeah. And so, you know, it's the same thing with the gifts. Like we, we really haven't embraced the gifts. I mean, I grew up as, as a child and, you know, people used to call it my spidey sense. My parents would call it my spidey sense because I would look at people. I would know things. I would know their motives. I would be able to see things before they happen. And sometimes they would, they would call me would know things. I would know their motives. I would be able to see things before they happen. And sometimes they would call me to say I'm paranoid. But then these things would start to happen.

I'd tell them before they happened, and my parents would be like, oh, that's your spidey sense. Well, I used it for my advantage throughout life. I called it my gut instinct. But I had no idea that this was a gift to be used for the kingdom of God. Amen. No one ever taught me that. And so, you know, we need to be teaching these children when they're seeing in the spirit, when they're hearing from the Lord, how to steward these things. And, and, and, you know, we, we teach children like, okay, well, you know, so-and-so the five-year-old had a,

had a bad dream. And, uh, they come and say, there's a boogeyman in the closet. And our parents, we tell them, well, boogeymanman aren't real we need to be teaching our kids how to cast the boogeyman out of the closet that's right Nate that's right so anyways you know the evangelist in me it's like say a prayer to go to heaven go to church give 10 someday you meet Jesus but the gifts aren't for today healing is not for todayles and prophets are not to today. Signs and wonders are not for today. Devils aren't real. Really what we're doing is we are disarming ourselves as a church.

And, you know, why would the unbelieving world want that? We need to let them know that Jesus is alive, that this walk, this Christian walk, this kingdom walk is exhilarating. It's fun. It's powerful. Yeah, it is. And so you know a whole lot more about the five-fold ministry than I do, Barb. So maybe you can start talking a little bit more in detail about the five-fold ministry for the listeners. Well, Nate, I grew up in traditional church.

And so all I knew was the traditions of man. And when the Lord called me to a business ministry in 2005, and then in 2000, I thought it was my idea. And I said, no, I'm not going to do that. But then he made it clear to me in 2006, this is me. I want you to do it. So I said, okay. But I thought it was going to be a Christian business where it would be Jesus in the marketplace. So people would come in, I could pray for them or however the Holy Spirit would lead. And so that's when I went into that business with that mindset. And from there, after I opened the business in 2007, the beginning of 2008, the Lord said to me, I want you to have a meeting. And that terrified me, but I did it. And from that meeting, Nate, he assembled

intercessors. And he said, I want you to pray for this region for a move of my spirit to come. And Nate, I'll tell you how he told us to pray. This was the instructions from him. I want you to pray in the spirit for a half an hour when you start, and I want you to take communion. Why would he tell us to do that? Because what was happening is our hearts was coming into alignment with the perfect will and plans of God. And then when we would come back together after praying in the spirit for half an hour, all of us were like hearing the same things. We were all on the same page because we were in this connection and in this flow with the Holy Spirit.

And so while we're praying half an hour in the Spirit, the Lord knew, I'm going to make this place a church. It's going to do this. I'm going to establish a five-fold ministry here. I didn't even know what a five-fold ministry was. But because we just yielded to the Holy Spirit and we did what we were instructed to do, God birthed the church out of that. And Nate, when he started to say, this is a church and you're the pastor, I said, no way.

No, I cannot do that. I will not do that. I have young children at home still that were like elementary age and I'm a mom. And all I knew about church was these amazing pastors that carry the weight of the world. Some of them, they burn out. Sometimes their families fall apart because their dad's not there for them because they're a pastor and they have to be everything to everybody and it's required of them they have boards that tell them you have to do this you have to do that um and they it's such a heavy weight and they're they were never supposed to carry all of that and so then what happens is things start to fall apart. They get burned out and all of that. So that's why I was resisting big time and like, no. After two weeks of crying about this to the Lord, when I realized that this was him saying it and I wasn't going to get out of it, I just cried.

He didn't force you to do it, though, did he? He did not force me. It was a choice. But after two weeks, he said to force me it was a choice but after two weeks he said to me it's not what you think just keep doing what you've been doing and love the ones i send you and i'm like oh okay it was like the weight of the world lifted off of me i can do that i can't be everything to everybody and and all, but I can love people that you send me. So from that point, Nate, we became this church.

And when he gave me a vision right before we started the church, and it was a pulpit, and there was a big wooden cross. And you know the cross. It's in our church. It's at the front. I had that made because of this vision and and the the big cross was behind the pulpit and the lord said to me i am the head of the church and i said yes sir and i was actually very relieved because i knew i didn't know what i was doing so from that not in our own strength right. And so I just yielded to him.

And if I could just encourage leaders and pastors, people that genuinely love the Lord, Nate, one of the biggest things I would encourage them is to encounter the love of the Father. Let him love them well, like receive his love. We can't give anything away that we don't have. If we haven't received it from him, We can't give anything away that we don't have. If we haven't received it from him, we can't give it away. And the second thing would be to yield to the Lord and allow Jesus to be Jesus. Let him be the head of his church. Allow him to make the decisions. Allow him to call the shots. Allow him to be Lord. We don't need, well, we don't need a board of people to tell us what God wants us to

do and not want us to do. We have to hear from heaven, not from men. It has to come from the Lord himself. It's his church, Nate. You do not have to be PC on this show. Thank you. Bring it. He died. He died and paid a big price for people, Nate. And he knows how to do this and he knows how to do it well. And if we just yield to him and allow him to do what he does, the most beautiful and amazing and incredible things start to happen. And you know what? You don't get burnt out. You don't get exhausted. You don't get frustrated and want to quit and run away

because it's life-giving. And so for me, if I could impart anything to leaders, pastors, just say, Lord, reveal to me truth. How do you want to do this? How do you want to do everything here? If he wants to restructure everything, let him do it and just yield to it and just ask him. You don't have to figure out anything. Like I'm talking nothing. We don't have to figure out anything, Nate. All we have to do is yield and just say yes to him and he'll do it. Yes. Amen. Thank you. You know, and we should never put God in a box and we should really never put ourselves in a box

because what we're going to get into next, you know, we're talking about the five-fold ministry. You basically, you didn't wake up one morning and say, I'm going to be a pastor. No. The Lord called you to be a pastor. And, you know, for years we look at the five-fold and I've seen myself and I've been labeled by many as an evangelist. Right. But we have a grace for different callings. And you could be a pastor for a season and the Lord will train you and call you into something new. Right. And that's not even see with myself.

It's like evangelist, evangelist. But now he's been starting to call me into new things and so that's clearly what he has done with you and what we're really going to get into um now is that you know we're going to talk about the women in the church as a whole okay and um again something you look barbara sh Shaw is an apostle. She's been ordained and called by God to be an apostle in the Shenandoah Valley. I don't know where that will reach to. But, yeah, and you didn't just wake up one morning and say, I'm Apostle Barb. And put it up on your Facebook profile or your business cards. Right?

I don't think you did no i did not yes you were ordained and called by god to do this and you know what i'm realizing this was not my intention this was not my plan but the lord is using this show through four weeks to empower women to give women a voice on the show he did it with my wife he did it with linda martin last week he's doing it with you and a few days ago, we talked about this and what I felt like the Lord was putting on my heart for this show. And you said, oh, Nate, I don't really talk about those things publicly. And I said, all right, but you're stepping into a new season. And I think the Lord is calling you to say this, but I won't force you, but you pray on it. And then two days later, you reached out to me. You said, Nate, the Lord came to me and woke me up in the middle of the night and he told me i need to share this

so you are an apostle you are a woman please share so nate i had to struggle with even being called pastor okay and then i had to yield and surrender to the Lord's will and do what he called me to do. So we started a church for five years. I was pastoring, but three years after we, after I started this church, the Lord said, I'm going to send you an apostolic board that will help carry the weight of this ministry. And I didn't even fully understand it at the time. But what he did, I didn't get to choose these people either. I want you to know. The Lord himself chose the people and who it was going to be. After the fact, after they were already chosen, and I'd already asked them to be a part of this, I realized he had chosen the five-fold ministry.

There was an apostolic prophet. There was an evangelist, teacher, pastor, and apostle, all five. And what happened, Nate, is when the Lord established this order in our church, and they didn't come in and try to take over the church or tell us you're going to do this or that. This was a loving relationship like family. It is deep heart connections with people in the spirit. And they came and they're there. They have given love, support, encouragement. If I need anything, I can call them. If things are out of order, they can step in. I mean, whatever it looks like, they're just there to love and help.

And so from there, the Lord started to talk to me about, you know, who I was and that he had called me to be an apostle. And I hardly knew what that looked like or what it even meant because I grew up in traditional church. And I had a crazy thing that happened, and I got ordained in Kenya, Africa, of all the places. Totally didn't plan that and wasn't what I was wanting, but it happened, and I was ordained as an apostle. And so the Lord started teaching me what that looked like, Nate. And after I had pastored for five years, he started to tell me, you need to step into your apostolic calling. And I kept trying to pastor because I was unsure and I wasn't very confident. I kept trying to pastor. And what happened was the grace for pastoring ran out. And I got to a point, I'm like, wow, Lord, I want to like get in my car

and drive away from these people. I'm like, I have never felt this way. What's going on? And he said, your grace for pastoring has run out. I need you to step into what I'm calling you. And he raised up two pastors in our church. So we have two amazing pastors in our church. And then what he did is he raised up people within our body, in the local assembly there, to be five-fold ministry people. And so, Nate, this is how I can explain to you what I saw the Lord do with the five-fold ministry. It came together, and when all the pieces come together and they're in place, it starts to fit together kind of like this. You know, like the gears in a watch.

If you take the back off of a watch and you're watching the gears spin around. Like a puzzle coming together, right? Yeah. It's everything. There's this flow to it. There's this smooth, just a smooth flow.

It's not getting jammed up. It's not getting, and it's how the Lord designed it. It's right there. It's right here in front of us in Ephesians. Okay. And when it operates that way, there's a grace on it. Yes. You know, it's five and that is the number of grace. Jesus is the full representation of the five-fold ministry. Jesus, just like you said earlier, he was all of those. And when we have all of those operating in our midst and in the body of Christ, what happens is Jesus in his fullness is seen, and things start to move and operate. And you think, well, how in the world can you have an apostle in a church and a prophet in a church and all these different things?

When the Lord does it, it just comes together and there's this mutual submission and love to one another. And you honor and you respect one another. And I want people to know, like, the apostle word has gotten thrown around. It has been abused. A lot of people think it's a title. It's not a title. It's a function. It's kind of a job description. And really, if you're called to be an apostle or a prophet or something like that, your place is at the bottom. And what you do is you come underneath and you love, encourage, support, and build up others so that they can step into their calling and be all God's called them to be. And so really it's being a servant. And the greatest in the kingdom of God are servants.

Jesus came to serve. And we have to learn servant leadership. And so it looks like laying our lives down, Nate, for other people and loving the Lord so much that we will do what he's called us to do to help see his will accomplished in the earth. And he wants to raise up sons and daughters at this time to go into the harvest field, to go into the harvest field, to go into the marketplaces, to go into all the different spheres of influence and impact these areas for the kingdom of God and the kingdom of God to advance. We were never meant to stay in a building and just come together and be happy, just us four, no more kind of thing. We were meant to raise up people, empower them,

and then send them out. And that's what the apostle does. He has a heart. Apostles see the gold in people and they call it out. Apostles want to send people out. And they're also sent. They're sent to start churches. They're sent to go places in the world and things. But really, for me, when I think about myself as an apostle, I'm a spiritual mom. And I feel like that's probably one of the best ways to describe who I am. Because I love the children that God sends me, no matter what the age. Everyone in our church, from the youngest to the oldest, I look at them as a leader in training. Everything that the Lord does in our church is geared toward training, equipping, and empowering the people so that they can be all that God's called them to be for his kingdom. Yeah, that's really good.

And one of the things that you said that hit me right as you said it is that your grace to be a pastor had run out. And, you know, think of how I can phrase this, but we stay in the same place. Most of us for many, many years, we get comfortable. We think we're good at it, but the Lord has called us to something else, right? Many times he calls us to something else. Are we going to be obedient to that? Or are we going to stay where we're comfortable and what we feel good at? know i think faith in the kingdom is spelled r-i-s-k and and and he will often call us to do the uncomfortable things and i won't you don't i don't know how much you want to share on this but when you talk about the grace running out as a pastor you know the lord essentially called you to to hand off your baby he did and you know that's why i said i felt like the timing

of all this and even being on the show was so important so i don't know if you want i didn't say what that meant but if you want to talk about it and what that looked like and maybe how challenging that was for you um to to step out really step out and what the lord's calling you Well, Nate, it was in January of 2021 when I recognized that I wasn't comfortable being a pastor anymore. Okay? And I was, it was starting to be a struggle, and I was striving. And then I'm like, this doesn't feel good anymore. I want to get in my car and drive away but I love the people so it didn't make any sense to me so when I think it was your flesh

no I just didn't understand what the change was because before it was just beautiful like it was I love the people and it was it was amazing but then all of a sudden it became like a burden you know it was a striving and a struggling and that was the lord telling you that it was time to step into something new but maybe you weren't discerning that at first right well i just want you to say that it's important to know because we feel these things and we don't always understand what's going on that's exactly what happened he had actually told me in november of, but I kept just doing the pastor thing. But he was trying, because he's so good, he's all the while at working us to will and to do of his good pleasure.

So if we just yield, he's the one working in us, and he's going to get us to where he wants us to go. So when I said, Lord, what's wrong, when I finally asked him, he said're the grace for pastorings run out and he said and he had already told me that uh pastor Ned Irving is pastor at Heart of the Home now and then later um Linda Dillinger she was put in as a pastor as well and so um I kept trying to do what God was calling someone else to do I was actually standing in their way of advancement. You were being disobedient, right? At that moment, I was being disobedient. Yes, I was. You didn't realize it, but you were. I was. I guess, right? Yeah. And so when I realized, like, oh, okay, so I had to ask him to help me transition out of being this pastor that I have

learned to do into being what he was calling me to, which was a big learning curve too. And then we put in the pastors. And Nate, there's so much freedom walking in who God's called you to be. When you start to walk in your true identity, you wake up in the morning and you can't wait for your feet to hit the floor

you can't wait to go and sit with him and find out what are we going to do or like and just that relationship with him and the fullness of who he's called you to be it's so much joy like i when you're in line with him, too, that's beautiful. Right. And that's what he wants for all of us. He came that we had life and have it more abundant. And so he wants us to live an abundant life, and he knows what that looks like because he knows what he put into each one of us.

But if we're living outside of what he's called us to, it's a striving, it's a struggling, it's a fumbling around, it doesn't feel good, it's, you know, so we have to find out who we are and what he has for us. And we do that in the secret place with him and allowing him to be father to us and love us and tell us who we are. So I'm going to stick on the women in the church and give the women a shout out today. And apostles, right? So named apostles in the New Testament, what would you guess? How many?

How many? Sure. Named apostles. It's not just 12. Yeah. Yeah, there's more than that. This is quick trivia. I don't know.

Okay. All right. Let's say 25. I was going to say 25. You were right on that, okay? This is really interesting because you see millions of them now. Do you know how many named pastors, male or female, were named in the Bible? Maybe none.

The answer is zero. Yeah. Do you know how many named female apostles were listed in the New Testament? No, not exactly. Romans 16, the name is Junia. And some people, you know, we like to say that maybe, my understanding is that Junia, through my research, is a listed female apostle in the New Testament. So there are actually more female apostles listed in the New Testament than male pastors. Wow. So just think about that for a minute. Okay. And look, women in the church, I mean, there are churches in Charlottesville, big churches in Charlottesville that have been

divided, like even in the last year, because of wanting to allow women to have leadership roles in the church. Okay? And this is really interesting, too. Do you know who the first evangelist was? Who was the first to share the good news? It was the Samaritan woman at the well that Jesus encountered and told her her whole life history, and she left there and went into the town and told everybody. That's very good, and that is accurate but from the resurrection of jesus mary it was mary magdalene yes who i'm going to read this really quickly

mary stood out the soon crying as she wept she bent over to look into the tomb and saw two angels in white seated where jesus body had been one of the head and one of the foot they asked her woman why are you crying they have taken my lord away she said and i don't know where they've put him at this she turned around and saw jesus standing there but she did not realize it was jesus he asked her woman why are you crying who is it you're looking for? Sir, if you've carried him away, tell me where you have put him and I will get him. Jesus said to her, Mary. She turned over him and cried out, Rabboni. Jesus said, do not hold on to me for I have not yet ascended to the Father.

Go instead to my brothers and tell them I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God. Mary went to the disciples with the news. I have seen the Lord. She was a female evangelist. And there was not coincidence that she is the first person that Jesus appeared to. Right? Yes. And not only was she was a woman, she was also in a previous part of her life.

She was a prostitute. Exactly. And so, you know, look, I'm just going to leave it at that. But look, you have faced lots of persecution in the church for being a pastor. You'll probably face even more for being an apostle. I would love for you to be open and share some of the things that you have faced and why women are called to be leaders in the church, in the body of Christ? Well, for one thing, Nate, the Lord doesn't see us according to gender like we see each other. We are spirit beings. And when we come to the Lord, we are a new creation in Christ.

And we have been called by the Lord. He is the one who created us. And he's actually the only one who has the authority to tell us who we are. Not a person, not a man, but God. He created us, so he's the only one. And you know one of the most segregated places in the world is in the church. It is. If you think back to the azusa revival and how the lord used um

william what was his name uh william um is it william seymour yes yeah and he was uh he was a black man who was praying and and these women that were praying and this revival broke out in 1906 which was so powerful and can one of you guys look up uh is it william seymour do you know his name i think it's william seymour okay so um at that time for this man to be with the the white people in 1906 i mean people were getting killed for things like this but god used him in that revival and the lord is raising up women i mean go all the way back to the old testament and the story of Deborah. She was a prophetess. She actually led the army of the Lord, and it was a man who was put in that position, but he didn't want to do it.

And he knew, I'm not going into this battle without her. He saw. He saw what was on the inside of her. And so she said, I'll go. And she went, and they had a great victory. But anyway, the way we look at things, and sometimes we get so hung up, Nate, on these little things, it's man, that's flesh.

We have to move out of our flesh, and we have to move into the spirit of God and start to live out of the spirit realm, out of the Holy Spirit guiding us, the Holy Spirit leading, the Holy Spirit calling the shots. As long as we're trying to do it in our carnal, natural, fleshly thinking, we're going to miss it. We're going to miss the Lord. We're going to miss what he's trying to do. I mean, think about when Jesus came. Think about how many religious people had studied the Torah. They knew everything about the scriptures, but they missed it in a big way.

And you can go back through the Bible, and you can see Jesus throughout the whole Old Testament. And if they'd had a heart to receive, they wouldn't have missed it. So don't let your traditions of man and all of that stand in the way, your carnal thinking stand in the way of what the Holy Spirit is wanting to do. Because God wants to use women, and he is using women in a very, very powerful way. Yes, he is. So what do you say to those who say that scripture says that women aren't supposed to have leadership positions in the church? I think that there are scriptures that are misinterpreted at times and put in a light that makes it look like that women aren't supposed to speak in the church. And we aren't even looking culturally at the time of how things were when those scriptures were written.

And so what I would say to people is if you're questioning this and you want to know the truth, you need to ask Holy Spirit to reveal truth to you. You don't want to miss something God's doing because you're hung up on a thing. You want to know the truth. I mean mean you're an amazing woman of God you have an amazing church church family and you told me that there are groups of pastors who meet that will not allow you to come to the meeting because you're a woman Nate it's true um I'm excluded from pastor's meetings because I'm a woman. I'm not allowed to be there. And I don't hate them.

I don't dislike them. It's just how it is. And, you know, I pray that the Lord will reveal to them who I am in the spirit. And they can quit looking at me as just a woman, but look at me in the spirit. And that's not the only persecution. There's been years of persecution, like who's your covering? Um, where's your husband in the ministry? I've had so many different things that have come against me. The enemy has tried his best to stop me from being who God's called me to be. And his spirit has empowered me to just keep going no matter what just keep going and I just

encourage can I talk to the women right now yes please I just encourage you women a lot of you have been sitting in churches for a long time and they've put you on the back row they've given you a job in the nursery or in a Sunday school class. They've told you you can't do this, you don't have a voice, and you're not allowed to do that. And the Lord wants you to know that he sees you and he knows what he put in you. And the things that you're feeling in your heart and in your spirit, they're from God. And I encourage you to go to your father and ask him to reveal to you who you are in the spirit and how he sees you. He wants you to know who he created you to be because this is where you're going to walk into a life that is so full of joy. It's so fulfilling living in your destiny with the Lord. And I just

encourage you to hear from the Lord and then ask the Father to put the right people in your life. Ask him to send you people into your life that can see you for who you were created to be. And allow him to start speaking to the destiny on the inside of you. Allow him to start calling you out and letting him tell you, I have a plan for you and I want to use you in a really big way. And the reason that you're seeing these things is because a gift that I've put in you. The reason you hear these things in the spirit is because I'm speaking to you and I'm showing you those things. He needs your voice. He needs you to operate in your kingdom gifting so that this world can be impacted with his love. And so I just encourage you, don't be discouraged. Don't

hold bitterness and unforgiveness. Forgive, walk in love, and go to the Father and let him heal your heart where you've been hurt in the church, where you've been abused spiritually, let him heal your heart, and then allow him to speak to your destiny and walk in the fullness of that. Freedom! Yes, amen. That's exactly, that was the Holy Spirit, and I thank you for sharing that and bringing that, and people are going to be greatly impacted by those words, and yeah, well, I honor you, I love you, I love you. I appreciate you. I thank you for coming on and Tom flies on the show and I knew it would. And we have literally like, um, one minute left. So I just want to say really quickly, uh, Barbara, you have been

amazing. Our guest next week will be Mark Malvis. He's coming from, he's from South Africa. He lives in new Orleans. Now he is, it shows going to be fire. There's going to be a lot ofees. He's coming from, he's from South Africa. He lives in New Orleans now. He is, his show is going to be fire. There's going to be a lot of laughter. He's a really big personality. And I met him through Barbara. So these are connections, kingdom connections. And also, yeah, share the show. People need to see the truth that Barbara brought on here today. There are still opportunities for sponsorships for the show. If you see the links, the Venmo, the PayPal, donate, bless the show if it's on your heart. And one more thing, Barbara, if there's anything in like one minute that you have for the show,

if you have for the city, the community of Charlottesville, the Lord puts on your heart, have at it real quick. I would just love to release the Father's love over this entire region, that the churches, the pastors from the leadership down would encounter the heart and the love of the Father in such a way that it will radically impact and change their life, their congregation, and this entire region. And that's what I would love to release in this region today, that we can encounter his love. It's life-changing.

It's life-giving. Thank you, Barbara. Thank you for sharing your heart. And, hey, bless you guys with this. Thank you for being a part of the show today. I speak of life and love and healing over your bodies and blessings to you and your family. And we will see you next week. Thank you.