The I Love CVille Show With Jerry Miller! - Burger Bach Closes In The Shops At Stonefield; Why Are Many Restaurants Closing In CVille Area?

Episode Date: September 3, 2024

The I Love CVille Show headlines: Burger Bach Closes In The Shops At Stonefield Why Are Many Restaurants Closing In CVille Area? Dairy Market Parking Now Free + Other Updates AI-Powered Gaston’s Market Opens At UVA Gaston’s Features Checkout-Free Shopping AI F&B Store vs Cherry Ave Grocery Chamber Of Commerce Bldg For Sale, Best Use? UVA Stomps Spiders; At Wake Forest Saturday Read Viewer & Listener Comments Live On-Air The I Love CVille Show airs live Monday – Friday from 12:30 pm – 1:30 pm on The I Love CVille Network. Watch and listen to The I Love CVille Show on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn, iTunes, Apple Podcast, YouTube, Spotify, Fountain, Amazon Music, Audible, Rumble and iLoveCVille.com.

Good Tuesday afternoon, guys. I'm Jerry Miller. Thank you kindly for joining us on the I Love Seville Show. It's great to connect with you on a crisp Tuesday afternoon in downtown Charlottesville. I hope the three-day weekend, if you were able to enjoy a three-day weekend with Labor Day now behind us us was pleasurable for you. I spent much of the three days with the better half and our two boys, including a first-grade birthday party on Saturday at ACAC Adventure Central. That was very enjoyable. At that birthday party, I had the pleasure of chatting with a couple of parents

who were viewers and listeners of the I Love Seville show, including one parent who was excited to start listening to the program, very much enjoyed connecting with viewers and listeners in a real-life setting to talk about, you know, what we try to make the program, the water cooler of Charlottesville. Got good feedback on the show. Oftentimes on the program, I highlight the topics of interest that I'm passionate about or the topics of interest that are our primary sources of revenue,

and those are often linked to real estate, business brokerage, the economy, and the cross-section of government on small business, commercial real estate, and those who choose to buy and sell commercial real estate. Some of the feedback I received at this first- birthday party was include some of those human interest stories that used to be prevalent on the show. Some of the educational storylines that were extremely prevalent last year as Dr. Meg Bryce and Allison Spillman went toe to toe in a at large race on the Albemarle County Board of Supervisors that generated national attention. I appreciate the reminder. I appreciate the feedback. We're always looking for feedback and storylines that you think are different than the ones we like to cover. We just want to be the water cooler of the community where topics originate and legacy media watches us and turns those into other storylines.

I also want to relay the afternoon we had on, was it Saturday or Sunday? It's all a blur. I think it was Sunday. On Sunday afternoon, my wife and I and our two boys went to Pro Renata. If you want to highlight our partners there on screen, Judah, in Crozet. It was a great experience. Pro Renata is, they understand the concept of an omni-experiential outing. The boys, a first grader and a 22-month-old, 21, 22-month-old, were playing on a physical playground. I think playgrounds are not prioritized as much as they should be

in the era of screen time and YouTube. So as we get photos on screen for Pro Renata, Judah, I want to highlight the kids enjoying an outing with the playground while mom and dad enjoyed a couple beers with friends. Then we went inside. We listened to live music by Jimmy O. How about Charlottesville legend Jimmy O?

I think I first was introduced by Jimmy O at the Lazy Parrot Grill on Pantops when he played Kevin Kirby's restaurant, that outside patio. And I'm talking about Lazy Parrot 1.0, not the Lazy Parrot that's on the end cap where the old Hallmark used to be next to the old Hallmark, Lloyd's Hallmark location. I'm talking the initial Lazy Parrot that was in the middle of the shopping center. A lot of

folks in the Charlottesville, greater Charlottesville area don't realize that at one time Kevin Kirby, a retired firefighter, owned two bars in the same shopping center with the same name, Lazy Parrot. The first iteration of Lazy Parrot was in between the Food Lion and the Roses Shopping Center, right in the middle. And this was a playground of mischief and a playground of fun and a playground of debauchery, a playground of sports fans and chicken wing fans and a playground of trouble from time to time. The first Lazy Parrot was, and in fact, I think I met you there, Judah Wachauer, during Trivia. I Love Seville Trivia, 14 years ago. We launched the business 16

years ago, and to get the word out about I Love Seville 16 years ago, we were hosting local trivia in bars and watering holes, trivia that cannot be found on your phone, but was instead about Charlottesville landmarks and Charlottesville history and Charlottesville storylines. And at this particular Lazy Parrot, there was a smoking section. At first, it was all smoking. And then Kevin, who's a creative and enterprising restaurateur, a successful restaurateur, now his daughter Cassie, in charge of the day-to-day operations of Lazy Parrot, he siphoned off a part of the dining room

and made it non-smoking, where you would see families. And then in the smoking portion, you would watch fans enjoying sports and drinking $2 beers and $2 Jägermeisters and listening to live music like Jimmy O, who was playing at Pro Renata in Crozet. But before I get today's storylines, I want to highlight what was two hours of fun for our family. We watched our kids play in a playground while drinking cold beers. Then we went inside and we enjoyed Dino's Pizza and Moothru ice cream while I watched football on TV. Our boys were having a good time eating gummy bear topped ice cream from Muthuru. And I mentioned in person that Pro Renata and Crozet

has really much turned into the Disney world of Crozet, where it's extremely appealing to families. You see that playground theme elsewhere, where you also see it as that Mexicali restaurant on West Main Street, their old World of Beer location, Judah. Another partner of the show, Mexicali restaurant. Johnny Ornelas and River Hawkins.

They have built another Omni experiential destination where it's live music, it's food, it's drink, playground for kids, outside patio. These are the people that are winning. And it's a perfect segue into Burger Batch. Burger Batch and the shops of Stonefield

did not provide that Omni-experiential destination. Burger Batch, you went into a restaurant, you sat down, and you had fries, burgers, oysters, or beer. It was a traditional dining experience. If you do not know, Burger Batch and the shops of Stonefield has closed. And this was a restaurant chain.

It's a restaurant chain that started in Richmond but also penetrated North Carolina due to two-shot, offer some color on the other Burger Batch locations that have closed and the ones that are still open if you could. The two burger batches that have closed, obviously the one near us, also the one in... The one in... So burger batch spots in Carytown, Midlothian, and Durham, North Carolina remain open for business. The Charlottesville location is closed. Burger Batch closed on West Broad Village after an 11-year run in Richmond.

So it had a handful of locations. The one local to Charlottesville closed and outside of Charlottesville closed as well. A lot of folks on Reddit, a lot of folks on Facebook, the Charlottesville area community chatter group have highlighted the fact that this location in shops of Stonefield is closed. And perhaps the spin is it's a greater issue for F&B businesses in Charlottesville and Alamaro County and Central Virginia and beyond. And I'll be straightforward. Is it a particularly strong market for F&B businesses in Charlottesville, Alamaro County, and beyond? Probably not.

The cost of goods have gotten extremely expensive, and we're seeing that reflected in the menus and the prices we're paying when we're going out to eat. The labor market is extremely expensive. Look, we want to pay folks a living wage in the Charlottesville area. We want staff in restaurants to make $15 an hour or more. We want to have auto tip included as a service fee. And we're seeing a number of restaurants do that.

Selvage Brewery, for example. When you order beers and food at Selvage Brewery, there's a 15% tip included. And then you're asked if you want to tip on top of that. My wife and I and our kids were just there. I tip additionally on that. Get it to 20%. Okay? I tip additionally on that, get it to 20%. If we want these types of equitable dynamics or ecosystems, then you and I, the consumer, are going to pay more when we go out to eat.

Menu prices are a reflection of cost of goods, are a reflection of labor costs, are a reflection of rent overheads, and frankly are a reflection of debt service that's now coming due, that was incurred or accrued during COVID and the pandemic. All those elements are impacting small businesses in Central Virginia, in particular, a category that's saturated like food and beverage. It's no secret that dairy market has had a number of brands and businesses close of late. GRN Burger, Green Burger.

So GRN, Green Burger, whatever it may be, has closed. Citizen Burger Bar stall has closed. The South and Central stall is closed. The closing. It should be noted that some businesses have been doing well and have been expanding. That's the point I was going to make. The point I was going to make is this environment is not headwinds for all. This environment, in fact, is tailwinds for some. And we're seeing those tailwinds with brands and businesses like Pro Renata,

the success of Mexicali out the door. Dairy Market, its ownership group, Stony Point, has changed the parking structure outside the food hall to free parking. And they're now marketing and promoting that the parking is free. Insiders, or those of us that patronize businesses like Dairy Market realized that the parking was essentially free all along and never really being policed by tow trucks. We've known that for years. Still, some paid for parking. Do I think Burger Batch is a reflection of the fragility of food and beverage in Central Virginia and in the Charlottesville and Albemarle County area? Perhaps yes, but perhaps no. It's no

secret that the shops of Stonefield are one of the most expensive rent environments in the region, period. And whether we want to admit this or not, and whether the private equity group that owns the shops of Stonefield wants to admit this or not, that shopping center has never had the success that it had in the planning stages. It's never enjoyed the success that was initially envisioned for it. You have a Trader Joe's, you have a movie theater,

you have some expensive apartments, and you build retail around it. Folks, that should be a recipe for success. It has not been. We've seen Pasture Restaurant. Jason Alley out of Richmond. He had Pasture Restaurant in the Burger Batch location. We've seen Rock Salt close. We've seen Hunter Smith's Champion Hospitality Group with Champion Grill close there. We've seen Trevenia close. The movie theater, whether we want to admit this or not, is operating on thin ice.

Had a conversation with Jerry Ratcliffe, the star of The Jerry and Jerry Show, airs Tuesdays at 10.15 a.m. on the I Love Seville Network. The man behind JerryRatcliffe.com. He and his girlfriend went out to see Reagan, the new movie about Ronald Reagan, as told through the eyes of a Russian spy. A two- hour plus flick and he said they got a large coke and two movie tickets at a late night screening and spent nearly $50

to go to a movie do we think that the future of the highest end rent district in the region the shops of Stonefield, is linked to an in-person movie screening experience? I don't. We bought a new house in the Ivy area and outfitted the house with, I said this a couple weeks ago, a 75 plus inch TV in our main room, a 60 inch TV in the secondary family

room, a TV for the primary suite, for the workout room, and five TVs with installation by the Geek Squad and the fantastic Spencer Pushard

and we spent $3,800. And we have a setup, ladies and gentlemen, that is our own home where we drink our own beers, have our own food, have the same surround sound, and a better viewing experience than you could probably get at a movie theater where the floors are sticky, the seats are musty, and you're sitting next to strangers at a time where people are still fearful of getting sick, when COVID cases are upticking. And this is not about COVID, this show. Never is it going to be about COVID again. But that's the world we live in. The rents are based on a model that is not reality. I attribute the burger batch closing less about headwinds and food

and beverage, and people will push back on me, and they're going to say dairy market and the food stalls and the turnover there. Well, maybe we need to realize that a food hall like dairy market is an incubator or a tryout for food and beverage. You want to bring a concept to market, you're going to pay a rent set up for a stall that's three or 400 square feet, as opposed to a 10-year lease in a class A space where you're mortgaged to the hilt, where you're leveraged to the hilt, and you're not sure you're going to make it and cover the debt for a decade. Wouldn't you try it out at a stall first before you go to an end cap in a shopping center? Obviously you would. So of course

there's going to be turnover in dairy market. People are throwing shade on this food hall and I don't get it. The food hall is a platform for people to try things out. There's going to be turnover in this food hall. And the burger batch closing is less about headwinds with food and beverage. And I understand it's saturated. I understand labor is a big-time issue. I understand cost of goods is a big-time issue. And I understand restaurant owners are now facing debt service tied to loans accrued during COVID to survive the pandemic. I get all that.

But Burger Batch is in the highest rent district, and they didn't do anything omni-experiential. We were talking Laura Foner on Friday. I believe she's watching the program. She's the new chef at Beer Run. Look at what Beer Run has done. It's a restaurant that's meshed with a beer tasting venue, with a beer bar, with one of the best craft beer selections in the region, a craft beer selection that can rival Wegmans or Whole Foods. You go to Beer Run and it's omni-experiential. It's a destination. It's not about sitting in a chair eating nachos, eating oysters or a burger. Those are the ones that are surviving.

The pro renatas, the mejicales, the beer runs. They are the ones that are surviving. And I'll tell you right now, we're going to tell you the story of a convenience store that's opening right off the UVA corner on Brandon Avenue that is staffless, that has no staff. It utilizes artificial intelligence. It's cashierless. Cashierless. The staff they have is to stock the shelves. They're not paying cashiers.

And we're going to compare and contrast a convenience store that's coming to a artificial intelligence and Amazon Pay to have success with their model by fattening their margin. And I'm going to compare and contrast that concept and the world we're heading into to a co-op grocery store that's being rumbled and chatted and scuttlebutted about on Cherry Avenue. There's a lot to unpack with the storyline of a chain business from Richmond closing in Stonefield. And how it's an indication of the fragility of the

market in totality. People pointing to shrimp what is it? The place in Ryle Hill Shopping Center? What was it pointing to Shrimp, what is it, Shrimp, the place in Rio Hills Shopping Center. What was it called? Scrimshack? Yeah. Everyone's like, that place closed too. Well, you know what? I have intimate knowledge about this. And now that it's closed, I can relay this to you, the viewer and listener.

It was a corporate-owned store. That brand was intended to be a franchise brand where points of sale were franchised out to individuals to run them. The only parent or corporate owned store was the one in Rio Hill. And the corporation, the parent company said, we don't want to be in this operation business any longer. So they made a strategic decision to close it down. It's not headwinds in the market. People point to Uma's on Water Street closing down. The ladies behind Uma's

want to go to a different market. They want to move out of Charlottesville to a different market. We're actively representing multiple restaurant owners, current ones, that are expanding their portfolio through acquisitions of other businesses. One of them we're going to announce in the very near future on this show.

The deal literally in pending stage. And that's all I can say. The doom and gloom is not all real. It appears to be real, but it's not all real. And I'm not buying the story that Burger Batch, it's closing in Stonefield, is a reflection of everything else that's happening in the greater Charlottesville area.

Show is yours, Judah Wittkower. Then we'll get to the viewers and listeners. I know you had some things you wanted to add. I would imagine that Burger Batch closing is probably more an indication of how things are going in Stonefield than Charlottesville at large. It's the rents. And we're seeing other businesses opening.

We're seeing other restaurants opening. We're seeing other restaurants opening. What did I just see? The New Orleans-styled restaurant next to Vicelli's. Yeah. By the Washington family. And Vicelli's is back open. That's great. Yeah.

And, you know, it's a shame when a restaurant closes, especially if it's a place that you really like. But, you know, you never know. And the owners, in this case, I don't think anything has been heard from the owners of Burger Batch. Them closing their short pump location as well could just be an indication that those two places weren't doing as well as their other locations. People are still going out to eat. I went to a few places this weekend, had delicious food, and all for supporting the places that you love and that are still open.

Vanessa Parke, I'll get to your comments in a matter of moments. Deep Throat, I'll get to your comments in a matter of moments. Neil Williamson, I'll get to your comments in a matter of moments. Holly Foster and James Watson, I will get to your comments in a matter of moments. The day of just putting an open side in a door and selling burgers or chicken wings, chicken sandwiches, pizzas, and tacos,

and doing only that, those days are done. Those days are done. People are going to expect or want more. And the more could be the omni-experiential nature of the business, the playgrounds, the live music, the art on the wall, the TVs for live sports, some kind of aspect that they cannot get through ordering food on an app and eating it in their tighty-whities or their bathrobe, on their couch

on their house, in their house. If all you're offering is a sit-down place and some average food that's expensive, you're not going to win. But if you're offering something that has the beer-run piece, the best beer selection out there, maybe second only to Wegmans, with beer tastings and wine tastings, with damn good food, and a name brand chef like Laura Foner, or you're doing what Christian's

doing, friend of the program, the Kellys, Christian and Jen, speaking of Laura, at Dooner's restaurant, where they're doing food that is far from cheap that food is priced some would say a little bit above market but it sells all day and every day because christian's menu is so dialed in and so damn good that people will pay for a plus quality and nobody's going to Dooner's for diner quality anyways. It's A-plus quality. That's my point. That's literally the point. He wins the game because his food is better than anyone's. It's in a category that is matched by very few.

Burger Batch closed because it had too expensive rents. It had average food. It had labor issues, cost of good issues. And the foot traffic in the shops of Stonefield, whether we want to admit it or not, is just not very strong, and certainly not since the pandemic. Get to comments. James Watson, it's good to hear your voice. Barracks Road is arguably the only successful shopping center in Charlottesville. I wish many of these business owners would call me before they take out loans and sign a lease. I could give them better advice where to invest their money. I'm not a financial advisor. It's like the moment they open, you know they got about 24-month window of survival in most of the

shopping centers. That's like this co-op grocery store that's being planned on Cherry Avenue. Co-op grocery store on Cherry Avenue is a recipe for catastrophe. Weren't you saying the other week that co-op was the only way that a grocery store could work over there?

I said the other week how you make a grocery store work is you make it a pickup location. I say you do a digital app where people can pick things up by a cold, by a refrigerated truck. Kind of the Relay Foods model, is how you make that work in a food desert, Cherry Avenue in Fightville. To staff a co-op and to tie something to a brick and mortar is asinine. You're going to be competing against the Wegmans, Kroger's, Food Lion's, Harris Teeter's of the world. Not the point of having a place there is that not everybody can travel to the Wegmans and

Food Lion's. Why do you need a brick and mortar? Do it out of a refrigerated truck. Everyone has a phone today. Use a phone and an app to order your groceries like the entire world is going to and pick it up from the location you're going to do the co-op in. You do not need brick and mortar with staff. You don't need it. And we're going to tell the story here in a matter of moments of Brandon Avenue and an AI convenience store.

And I'm telling you, this is going to be the new norm. First, other comments. Holly Foster and Henrico. For your information, Burger Batch is also closed and shore pumped. I enjoyed Dooners on Saturday night. Great food and the fresh pastries were such a treat. Had a fantastic meal on Sunday night at Vivace. What an outstanding restaurant.

Shocked that their cannolis did not make your list, Judah. I'm going to highlight the two restaurants. They might not have a picture of them. I'm going to highlight Holly Foster with Vivace and Dooners. I went to Dooners for my birthday. Christian Kelly and Jen Kelly, I hope you hear this. We sat at the bar with a bartender that knew our name, Fletcher. He knew our drink order, my wife, martini, me and old-fashioned. The drinks were robust. Then he said, you guys want the mussels and you want the duck egg rolls again? We said, absolutely. She told Fletcher it was my birthday. He busted at and got us a dessert. The dessert had happy birthday and chocolate syrup

on the side of the plate. We went there and we had an experience that was difficult to duplicate. The touches of chocolate syrup spelling out happy birthday on the plate, and the conversation with a guy who knew your order and how to make your drinks and the food consistent in quality. That's why they win. She mentions Vivace restaurant, one of the few places we take our kids. They're little terrors. One's in first grade and one's a 21-month-old. We nickname one after a tornado and the other one we nickname after an apocalypse. We kid because we care. These kids are difficult to bring anywhere. Parents, you can relate. But we go to Vivace.

Why do we go to Vivace? Because if we get there at 4.30 or 5 o'clock, we can sit in the bar area where the tables are. The kids can get popcorn from the popcorn machine, which they think is novel. The bar has got a buzz and an ambiance to it that's second to none. The bread is fresh. The pizza is amazing. The draft beer is five dollars. The food comes out quickly. The spicy calamari is amazing. It's an experience for the kids and the parents. That's why they win. Lonnie Murray watching the program. One of my pet peeves are sit-down restaurants where all the ordering is by app and you almost never see a waiter, but still prompting for 20%.

We are willing to put up with that during the pandemic, but enough is enough. We eat at restaurants for service. Otherwise, we do takeout. There it is. Love when you watch the program, Lonnie Murray. You can still win in this category, and you can still win, I would say, in any category of business, as long as you're willing to be creative and entrepreneurial and innovative. The days of yesteryear's tactics,

when the consumer is more sophisticated than ever, that ain't going to work. And people are still winning on the mall and still opening on the mall. The mall's forever going to be deep throat, you're on deck. The mall is going to be near and dear to my heart. It's going to be near and dear to my heart because I think it's the most important eight blocks in the region.

It's going to be near and dear to my heart because we own a boatload of real estate in downtown Charlottesville. It's going to be near and dear to my heart because our businesses are based in downtown Charlottesville. It's going to be near and dear to my heart because our businesses are based in downtown Charlottesville it's going to be near and dear to my heart because I spend 50-60 hours a week on the mall and I highlight the headwinds the mall faces and most of those headwinds are tied to a houseless population

that is making quality of life in downtown Charlottesville the perception unsafe the reality sketchy and that's fair to say but still with those headwinds perception unsafe reality sketchy. And that's fair to say. But still with those headwinds, perception unsafe, reality sketchy, still with those headwinds, restaurants

are opening. Draft is coming to market. Very close to opening. Can't wait. Draft tap room, 60 beers on tap. Bonnie and Reed just opened. Sushi speakeasy in the back of Vitae Sp and Reed just opened. Sushi Speakeasy in the back of Vitae Spirits just opened.

They're opening businesses downtown. Go to Tillman's and it's busy. Citizen Burger Bar and it's busy. Hamilton's and it's busy. Fitzroy and it's busy. Jack Brown's and it's busy. Monsoon and it's

busy. Deep Throat's got some perspective. Simply too many restaurants in this area. That's the issue. People are opening restaurants, drinking the poisonous Kool-Aid that local boosters are serving. Yes, evil is getting wealthier, but it is not doing so or growing at a rate that can support so many. The market would be a lot healthier with maybe 10% fewer restaurants. Also would say that some commercial real estate owners are just like

multifamily housing owners to have to come to realize that optimal vacancy is not 0%. They'd rather protect rent levels, keep them high and then tolerate a 5% vacancy. And he says to the omni-experiential thing, my in-laws moved here part-time recently and joined Farmington. We find ourselves joining them for dinner there a lot and kids can go to the pool and swim while we eat. Something for people to do. Something for people to do instead of just sitting down and ordering from a menu and eating average food. Ginny Hu, thank you for the retweet.

Judah, anything you want to add to this? No, not right now. I'll go to Vanessa Parkhill next. And Lonnie Murray says, Mas is an example of a fantastic restaurant. Great service, unique food at high quality. We had a family over to our house for Labor Day.

They have two boys. One of them, my oldest son's age and in his class. We went swimming in the pool and I grilled out while my wife served a vegetable tray and put out some charcuterie.

We had Coronas, Minutemen, Basic City. We had 40 miles. And I asked them, what was your favorite date night spot when you get a babysitter? And they said this, probably Mas. And they talked about the experience. They talked about the sangria, the bacon-wrapped dates, and the tomatoes asados. Ladies and gentlemen, when you are dealing with couples that have to get babysitters for their kids,

babysitters for their kids are costing $15 to $20 plus per hour. If we're going out to eat and we're spending three or four hours out, we're spending somewhere between $60 and $80 plus per hour just on sitter fees alone. If the experience is not memorable, we justify, is the $60 to $80 plus in sitter fees worth it?

You're not just competing against the consumer and other restaurants. You're competing on the spending power of a dwindling dollar and how it's stretched thin in many ways. Vanessa

Parkhill of Earleysville. How much of Dairy Market's food hall concept dependent on the office space that was also part of the development? I'm sure the Stonefield developers also counted on business from the North Roman facility next door. The remote work world has to be impacting those places.

I think one of the things that's impacting Dairy Market, and I love your comment, Vanessa, is the inability to build phase three, not saying phase three would be done right now, but having an apartment tower with 600 people living right next to it would certainly help the food hall.

No doubt. Curious to see how the duck pin bowling concept is going to work out at dairy market. That's in the Omni experiential category. The pricing of that's going to be key. No doubt. I was reading about the same thread as you on Reddit about keglers. Yeah. And the cost of bowling. Only for rich people.

And he's talked about this on this program, Deep Throat, the amenity effect. You start getting a household income, median family household income, greater Charlottesville area, $124,200. That's what the median family household income is according to HUD. And ladies and gentlemen, you price out your labor. The labor you have left has leverage to negotiate higher rates because fewer are willing to work. And then you've got a bunch of wealthy living in the community, and the wealthy is going

to expect businesses tied to their champagne tastes. And the businesses associated with their champagne tastes are going to be white tablecloth as opposed to paper towel. $50 tickets as opposed to $10 tickets for dads, kids getting free. That's what you're seeing happen in here. Olivia Branch, thank you for watching the program. Multiple media outlets watching the show right now. What's the next topic on the headline? Judah Wickauer. And I'll mention this from John Blair as you get the next topic ready.

John, we got LinkedIn up and running again through some enterprising of Judah Wickauer. The other unspoken words here, John Blair says, are about Stonefield. As you know, there were supposed to be apartments built over at Stonefield, but let's not forget, there were supposed to be apartments built over at Stonefield, but let's not forget that there were supposed to be a lot of apartments built at Seminole Square Shopping Center as well. The lack of housing near Stonefield probably plays a role

in the restaurant difficulties. He says, I'm curious, Jerry, how do you and Judah perceive of the burger business? I think the burger business in particular is really difficult. McDonald's did introduce the $5 value menu. Riverside is very reasonably priced. Now, I'll grant you it's not the same product as Burger Batch, but can you charge three times for the same product? Riverside does have tasty burgers. I love Citizen Burger Bar.

We helped come up with the name, and we designed and developed the logo for Citizen Burger Bar. Do you remember? Yeah. Of course. A logo was sketched out on a napkin, literally over drinks. And it was on a Friday night, and I brought that logo sketched out on a napkin into our office on Monday, and we said, let's brainstorm this concept of a brand,

like a brand you see on a cow for a logo for this new burger bar that's going to open by a talented restaurateur named Andy McClure. And he brings a concept where he's going to sell a price point for quality meat, quality meat, at $12, $14, $15, $16, $17, $18, or $19 a burger.

And we're going to call it Citizen Burger Bar. Initially, it was going to be called Union Burger Bar. And I said, that's a lot for a burger. And then he said, look at the other price points on the mall. It's the most affordable out there outside of Revolutionary Soup. And Revolutionary Soup is not a sit-down restaurant. And I don't think they do burgers. And they don't do burgers. And I said, all right. And he rocked and rolled. And he was so successful that a commercial broker

that watches this program that I won't name went to a brand in Harrisonburg called Jack Brown's and said, you can capitalize just on this waiting list with your own burger spot in the old location of Chaz Webster's The Box. Jack Brown's used to be The Box, owned and managed by Chaz Webster. But now you look at the downtown mall, and there's other more affordable spots.

Jack Brown's, once Draft opens again. Jack Brown's is actually... Tillman's. Are they affordable? When's the last time you've eaten there? I don't think I've ever eaten there. $12 grilled cheese with a side of tomato soup. Is $12 affordable for a grilled cheese?

Find me something where you can get a gourmet sandwich with a side of tomato soup that's homemade for $12. You went to McDonald's and you ordered a Big Mac, got a side of fries and a soda, you'd spend more than $12. Whether we want to admit this or not, $12 is the new affordable. The most affordable meal on the downtown mall. There's two clear-cut options.

Do you know what they are? Most affordable lunch on the downtown mall. Two clear-cut options. Do you know what they are? I would say Vita Nova and Christian's. I just had a Vita Nova slice of pizza for lunch. It was $4.09 for a slice of pepperoni. The second most affordable option on the downtown mall

is probably the dumplings, Marco and Luca. Five or six dumplings for what, four bucks? Outside of that, find me a lunch meal under five or six bucks. 12 bucks is the new affordable. 12 bucks in 2024 was the six or seven bucks of 2019 before COVID when labor and cost of goods and debt went out of control. I hate to tell you that.

It 2X'd because of the pandemic and what we did when we gave everyone free money to go spend it in our economy, to put people on lockdown. You know what the craziest thing is in the world, Judah? The biggest drug dealers in the world, the most powerful and arguably the most corrupt drug dealers in the world, got in the ear of politicians, spent a lot of money on advertising, bought commercial spots left and right on cable news channels and on YouTube, and they convinced the world that something was borderline synonymous with the flu was worth closing the world down for two years. And those drug companies were not the guys

you see on the street slinging white China and rock its Moderna and a vaccine. They got in the ears of politicians, of senators and congresspeople. They bought the TV commercial advertising and they told everyone this was the way to go. And we had a lockdown. And then the government gave everyone money because they were on lockdown. They prioritized big box brands while dehumanizing small box, small retailers and locally owned operations. We put all that money back into the economy causing inflation. People got out of frontline businesses because they were either scared or because they realized this was not for them anymore.

It caused a labor shortage. Or because they were forced to stay home. It caused a labor shortage. Cost of goods went through the roof. And the small business owner had to take so much debt on just to keep their operation going that that debt is now becoming active and needed to be paid back now. It's the death of a thousand cuts. And it's all passed on to us. The $12 meal in 2024 is the $7 meal from 2019. Although I will point out that

speaking of Jack Brown's they have a grilled cheese for a lot less than $12 how much is the Jack Brown's grilled cheese? $4 show me the Jack Brown's grilled cheese you're seeing it on the menu? let me see the price of that on the menu

I mean it's on their website you go to Jack Brown's right now and get a $4 grilled cheese? That's what it says. They may have changed the prices on their actual menus, but I don't think they've changed it that much. I've been there recently, and these prices seem about right. So $4, 12% tip, five and change. Are you going to get a drink?

You're going to get fries? What does it have to do with $12 cheese? I said the grilled cheese at Tillman's came with a bowl of soup, tomato. Not originally, you didn't. It did. That's what it comes with. Well, you could have made that a little more apparent. $12 with a bowl of tomato soup. That's definitely better than a $12 grilled cheese sandwich.

Either way, you're tipping at both locations, aren't you? I would. I do. 20% regardless. In some cases, more. Yeah. Aaron King watching the program. This whole conversation is hitting close to home.

EK, we love you. Running the show over at Feast. Got someone on another page, Vanessa Parkhill, saying she just went to Mary Mill. Owners of Mary Mill own Feast. Fernando Garay watching the program fur cuts he says all the truth Jerry

keep speaking the truth Olivia Branch watching the program the Cherry Avenue project is a task with engaging the aging fightful neighborhood a grocery shop was one of the top requests from neighborhood meetings I respect that OEB

Queen of Keswick, Olivia Branch. I respect that position. My fear is creating a grocery concept where two other iterations already failed, Kim's Market and the IGA. It's not entirely fair, though. How is that not fair? I mean, that's like saying that

after a restaurant has gone out of business that no other restaurant should take its place because it's clear that restaurants don't do well there J-dubs sometimes we're we are our own worst enemy that's fair

and how we are our own worst enemy. That's fair. And how we are our own worst enemy is pride and ego and feeling that we can take the wheel and make it roll in a much more efficient fashion than those have used the wheel for years before us. If anyone thinks selling boxed goods or frozen dishes or canned cuisine

or fresh produce in a brick and mortar that's expensive to heat and cool and staff and ensure is the path of least resistance, then you or I or the viewer and listener is not in touch with reality. Well, I hope your vision does not come to pass. The internet and online ordering and the need to do it faster and easier and with less friction is changing consumer behavior.

Okay. Groceries delivered to your front door by clicking a button that takes one second within hours. But I don't want to pay someone an extra $15 for something that I can take 20 minutes doing on the way home. The $15, you're seeing it through the eyes of a single man.

Yeah. I want you to see it through the eyes of a parent that has a 22-month-old or a 6-year-old that they have to lug to a grocery store that has meltdowns, craps their pants, gets sick every time they touch a grocery cart because they're putting their hands in their mouths, takes the food off the shelves, throws them on the floor, breaks the spaghetti sauce, demands extra boxes of Lucky Charms, goes through the ice cream aisle and has a fit when they don't get

the ice cream sandwiches in their cart. A grocery experience that takes 30 minutes to get there because you're unloading kids from an Explorer and 30 minutes to get back because you have to put the kids in the car seats and drive home and you have six tantrums,

four meltdowns, six shitty diapers, and two broken spaghetti jars in aisle six. And then ask yourself if $15 spent on Instacart or Whole Foods delivery is worth it. I'm all for not seeing those people in the grocery store. Okay, that is more the norm than the individual guy that can go to and from the grocery store

and pick up a loaf of bread, a six-pack of sour beer, a pack of raincoats, and whatever else you're buying over there. What's the extent of your grocery experience? Eleven items? Are you in the express lane?

Most of the time. Exactly. You have the most frictionless grocery experience in the region. It doesn't change the fact that I see all sorts of people in the express lane with less than 12 items who are just stopping in to grab something. Not everybody shops for the entire week. And consigning us all to one type of shopping because you have shitty, I'm sorry,

less than well-behaved kids. Judah, you're speaking for a man who has limited experience. You're speaking through the eyes of a single man that can get in and out of a grocery store in 10 minutes. I've also been shopping with my family when we've gone on vacation. I've gone where it takes. Michael Buchenski, most people with families will look at that $15 as a cost-benefit analysis for their time, so they're willing to give up a few bucks if it saves them the time. I think you're pretty spot on with that, Jerry. Some people are. I have no doubt.

You know what it's like? We're going to agree to disagree on this one. Are you calling for the abolition of all grocery stores? I'm not calling for it. I'm saying the concept of a brick-and-mortar shopping experience is challenging, especially if that brick-and-mortar shopping experience requires tens of thousands of square feet of leased space that must be kept at temperatures to keep produce and frozen goods in good condition,

that requires staff to fill and stock shelves that often needs a class A or class B space to rent and large parking lots to accommodate people. There's a reason why these models are operating on single-digit percentage profit margin setups. Like, few points. Few points. And I'll also add this. As the consumer becomes even more trained to do their shopping on their phone. And as the consumer who is unwilling to shop on their phone

because you can't teach an old dog new tricks, whether we want to admit this or not, the consumer who you can't teach an old dog new tricks, they ain't getting younger. And the consumer that's been for the last decade and change You can't teach an old dog new tricks. They ain't getting younger. And the consumer that's been for the last decade and change shopping on their phone is becoming the broad base of the buying public. I would love to be able to get in and out of a grocery store

and turn for 15 minutes. Well, you are the envy of, I'd say, 85%, if not 90% of the viewers and listeners listening to this program. Legitimately, the envy. Most would call that an incredible hassle. What? Grocery shopping. Oh, I can't stand grocery shopping, but at the same time... You can't stand it and you spend 15 minutes doing it.

Imagine 8X-ing that experience. 8X-ing. And that's probably light. Lonnie Murray, keep in mind, Judah Wickauer, that the good parents in grocery stores can often be the ones with upset kids. They're usually upset because a parent told them no. It's so easy to just shut them up

by giving them what they want, but what makes for terrible grownups? Exactly my wife right there. That's fair. They hear no on a daily. Because you know why? It's much easier to parent and teach children than to repair broken men and women. Say it again. It's much easier to teach and parent children than it is to repair broken men and women. Okay.

And raising kids by teaching them the word no and not being their best friend, but instead being their accountability north star is how you parent and teach children so they don't become broken men and women. Any other topics at the 128 marker of the I Love C. Hill Show? We've got Gaston's check out free shopping. Here's a great example. Further backs the argument.

Set the stage, please. Wait, that does not further back your argument. Okay, go ahead. Give them the who, what, when, where, why. It's a physical location. It's a physical location where they're trying to strip it of being a physical location. But they can't.

They literally cannot strip it of being a physical location. Yes, you can. It's called delivery to your house eventually. But then they wouldn't. Okay, set the stage. Okay, go ahead. UVA has a new market, Gaston's Market, which is AI-powered. It runs off of, I believe, Apple Pay.

And once you have signed in so that you can shop there whenever you want, I believe the place is open 24-7 because it doesn't require hiring anyone to sit at a register. You walk in. You basically have no staff. Your staff is going to be the people that fill the shelves with product. Right. And so you walk in, grab what you want, and when you walk out, it charges your Apple Pay. And you're good to go.

You don't have to deal with anyone. Whether you're someone like Jerry who likes to have everything scanned for him or whether you're someone like me who likes to go through the self-checkout line, it works both ways. You walk in, you grab what you want, you walk out, and it's paid for. And I don't see why that couldn't be a model for the Cherry Avenue grocery store. Because you're paying rent.

Yeah. What does that have to do with it? Why are you going to pay rent for a 10 or 15,000 or 20? I mean, how many square feet is Wegmans? I bet you Wegmans is over 100,000 square feet. Okay. I would bet that Wegmans. Let me see if I can find it. Is Wegmans 120,000 square feet? Yeah, 120,000 square feet. How many square feet is Reeds?

I couldn't tell you off the top of my head either. I would imagine Reeds is probably 20,000 square feet. Sure. You want to know why Reed's is still in operation today? Anyone want to know why Reed's is still in operation today? They own the real estate.

If Reed's did not own the real estate on Preston Avenue, that grocery store would have been closed a long time ago. not own the real estate on Preston Avenue, that grocery store would have been closed a long time ago. They own the real estate, and still the community had to do a GoFundMe to keep the business open. Do you get that? They have the market advantage of owning their location,

and still a GoFundMe was needed to save the grocery store. The co-op model, they're not going to own it. The AI concept on Brandon Avenue is to get away from overhead. If you can successfully run a convenience store 24-7 in a place where certainly drunk college students will shop at, and if it's able to sustain itself,

then your next step of evolution or innovation is to basically do the same thing without having rent overhead. You want the same concept? It'll be delivered to you. You're getting out of Coupe de Ville's and you want to have a Mountain Dew and a Hot Pocket with pepperoni inside?

You get on your phone, and it's delivered to you in five minutes as you come out of Coupe de Ville's on Ellywood Avenue. In your hand. That is going to be the future of shopping. Because it's going to be much more innovative, instantaneous, and have much significantly less overhead. Have a pickup spot.

Oh, a boatload of people will track their IP addresses or in this one area within one block of each other, and they're all ordering at the same time. We'll have all that stuff delivered to the front of Little John's in 15 minutes. Meet us there. And you've already paid on your app, so it'll be frictionless pickup.

And it'll probably be effing delivered by a drone. It won't even be a human that does the delivery. Amazon has drone delivery now, where little robots are taking your one- hour delivery to you down the street. You're sidestepping robots on a sidewalk as your package is delivered to your doorstep. Did you know that? I have seen them. Okay. That is the, it's not. Do you think the AI brain and avenue grocery store is going to work? I think it'll be an interesting test and it could lead to further changes in other stores.

I think 100%, I 100% agree with you. I think this is going to be a very interesting proof of performance. How many people have been to a McDonald's lately? My kid loves the sausage biscuits, so we go to McDonald's. We went to the McDonald's on the base of Pantops. There's not even cashiers at McDonald's. You go to a kiosk, you order on a kiosk, and someone brings the food out from behind the kitchen and drops it out a window and calls your name. They don't even keep, they don't even staff the cash registers.

It's 1.34. Some topics we're going to have to save for tomorrow. I thought you were on point today. It's the Tuesday edition of the I Love CVO show as we integrate feedback from viewers and listeners on evolving the content from just some of my passions, business brokerage and commercial real estate. I'll close with this. UVA got a crucial victory

against the Richmond Spiders on Saturday. I'm not going to make this about sports, but I'm going to make this about the value to Central Virginia. Virginia has Wake Forest on the road this Saturday night, two and a half point underdogs UVA against the Demon Deacons.

If UVA gets a victory against Wake Forest and starts 2-0, you'll see that week three matchup against the Maryland Deacons. If UVA gets a victory against Wake Forest and starts 2-0, you'll see that week three matchup against the Maryland Terrapins, 8 o'clock kickoff under the lights in Charlottesville at Scott Stadium, perhaps with more people in attendance in Charlottesville.

And that's going to be a good for every business in this community. Tony Elliott's not just playing for his job. Tony Elliott, in a lot of ways, is playing as the greatest or one of the most significant drivers of the Charlottesville and Central Virginia economy, the head coach of Virginia football.

Tuesday, Judah Wickhour, Jerry Miller. I love the Seville Show. Thank you.