The I Love CVille Show With Jerry Miller! - Charlottesville Activist Kevin Cox Is Our Guest; Cox Arrested For Creating Crosswalk On Elliott Ave

Episode Date: May 30, 2025

The I Love CVille Show headlines: Charlottesville Activist Kevin Cox Is Our Guest Cox Arrested For Creating Crosswalk On Elliott Ave Cox Says He Notified City Manager About Crosswalk City Says Cox Created $1K+ In Vandalism Damages What Is Kevin Cox’s Defense Strategy In Court? State Of CVille – How Would Cox Characterize City? What Does Kevin Cox Think About Livable CVille? What Does Kevin Cox Think About High Street? Read Viewer & Listener Comments Live On-Air Charlottesville activist Kevin Cox joined me live on The I Love CVille Show! The I Love CVille Show airs live Monday – Friday from 12:30 pm – 1:30 pm on The I Love CVille Network. Watch and listen to The I Love CVille Show on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn, iTunes, Apple Podcast, YouTube, Spotify, Fountain, Amazon Music, Audible, Rumble and iLoveCVille.com.

Welcome to the I Love Seaville show, guys. My name is Jerry Miller. Thank you kindly for joining us on a Friday afternoon in downtown Charlottesville. The week is almost behind us. The last show of the week and what was a shortened week for Memorial Day, but I think it was a pretty good one. On Tuesday we interviewed Almar County Board of Supervisors candidate Dave Shreve who is running for a seat on the board in the Jack Jewett District against Sally Duncan. On Tuesday Chief Mike Kochis, the George Clooney of Policing was in the house, we spent an hour with Chief Kochis talking in part about Kevin Cox and the

arrest that is currently hanging over him, a vandalism charge for a crosswalk that he created on Elliott Avenue. We'll talk about that with Kevin Cox. We'll talk the state of Charlottesville with Kevin Cox and we'll reflect or take a look on East High Street on some of the new zoning ordinance and some of the activism that's happening in Charlottesville with Mr. Kevin Cox as well. A lot we're going to cover on the show and we encourage you, the viewer and listener, to join us

in the conversation by asking questions and shaping the discussion. I ask you, the viewer and listener for very little, but I do ask you for the same thing every day. If you could do me the favor of hitting like and sharing the show, like and share the show, and tell somebody about the I Love Seville Show. We work hard for you, and that literally is the only thing

we ask in return, is that you help us spread the gospel. Judah Wickower, director and producer, if we can give some props to John Vermillion and Andrew Vermillion at Charlottesville Sanitary Supply. Friends of the program, partners of the show, Charlottesville Sanitary Supply on East High Street is locally owned and operated. 61 years and counting for Charlottesville Sanitary Supply.

John Vermillion is four, maybe five generations in Alambara County, and his son Andrew is now taking over the business. They do things the right way, the honest way, the communicative way. Charlestville Sanitary Supply support this business, ladies and gentlemen. Judah Wickower, studio camera, then a two-shot as Kevin Cox is on the show with every media outlet in central Virginia watching the program. Kevin Cox, good Friday afternoon to you. Hi Jerry, thanks for inviting me. Thank you for joining us watching the program. Kevin Cox, good Friday afternoon to you. Hi Jerry, thanks for inviting me. Thank you for joining us on the program.

Did you walk here? Of course. Walked here. He is the, I would say, can I say this with confidence and conviction, the top pedestrian advocate and advocate and activist in Charlottesville, Almarl in central Virginia. I'd say that's you, Kevin Cox. Can I say that? You can say that. Thank you.

What drives your motivation for pedestrian and cycling advocacy? Well, there's two things, really. The first is I walked to my job at UVA for 25 years, 2 and 1 1 miles one way. And I got to know the streets and the sidewalks, and I know there are a lot of problems that need to be fixed. And secondly, I really want the city to be more walkable for everybody so that more people are out there on the streets and sidewalks.

It'll make the city a safer place. It'll reduce traffic congestion. Everybody that walks instead of driving to UVA to their jobs, that's one less car. And so I think it's beneficial to me and it's got a huge benefit for Charlottesville in general. Whereabouts do you live in Charlottesville, Kevin? I live on Fairway Avenue, behind Chisholm Place, sort of behind Mead Park. Okay. How long have you lived in Charlottesville?

Well, I've lived in the area for 62 years. 62 years? Yes. Wow, fantastic. Family man? Am I? Yeah. Yes, I have a wife and three children and a new granddaughter

who's three months old. Fantastic. I'm excited to talk about the State of the Union of Charlottesville with you. But the topic that is front and center in all the new cycles is a recent arrest for a crosswalk that you created on your own prerogative. We'll unpack the details here on the I Love Seville show, but I'll start with an open-ended question.

Give us the flip book of what happened with the crosswalk on Elliott Avenue. Okay. Well, my involvement started when I saw a request on the city's app, My Seaville. It was a request from a woman who lives near that crossing and she wanted, she was requesting a marked crosswalk, designate that crossing. And the then acting city traffic engineer replied and he was very dismissive. Was this Brennan Duncan? Yes, it was.

Brennan Duncan? Okay. He was very dismissive in his reply, but his reply also showed that he's pretty ignorant of how pedestrians travel in Charlottesville and what a pedestrian sidewalk network really does. And so that got me started and I contacted the lady and she and I began a petition drive to have a marked crosswalk put there. We collected over 900 signatures. That petition was pretty much ignored.

Numerous appearances have been before city council. Emails have been set detailing it and they continue to refuse without any good reason. Have you heard from anybody any reason that the city has denied that crosswalk? I have not, Kevin. I have not heard a reason. You're saying there is no reason.

There is no good reason. There is no good reason. What is the reason you've been given for denying the crosswalk? Well, in the most recent explanation I got from the deputy city manager, Mr. Freese, it's they're not putting a marked crosswalk at that pedestrian crossing because they're trying to encourage people to walk more than a hundred yards uphill out of their way and then walk back down. And so by not putting the marked crosswalk there somehow or another, that's going to

encourage people to walk a good distance out of their way and they don't do that. I don't think Mr. Freeze would do that. Okay? And so where were we? The reasons for why the crosswalk are not there. Right. And then after that, I got an email from the acting traffic engineer, Brennan Duncan, and in that email he said that the street is an arterial street and that was given as a reason for not putting

down a marked crosswalk. That statement, arterial street, is oxymoronic. It's something he made up. There's no such thing as an arterial street. It's either an arterial or it's a street. They're different, okay? And so I think this is one of the real reasons is because he's designated an arterial and he wants to keep it an arterial in order to keep the speed at 35 miles an hour. Arterials do not have marked crosswalks at unmarked, unsignalized intersections.

So on an arterial road, if you have an intersection but it doesn't have a stop sign, it doesn't have a traffic signal, then you're not supposed to put a marked crosswalk there. That's because arterials are high-speed roads meant to move high-speed traffic. They're usually four lanes between freeways. They're not city streets. Elliott's a city street. Let's see, what else did they say?

Oh, it's too dangerous. You have this all documented. This is all documented via email, paper trail. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. They've also told me it's too dangerous to cross there, so they want people to cross up the hill. Well, it's a legal crossing, okay?

It's completely legal. Pedestrians and drivers have all the same rights and responsibilities at that pedestrian crossing as they would have if it were marked. All a crosswalk does is indicate to drivers, this is a pedestrian crossing. A marked crosswalk does not create a crossing, it acknowledges one. There are many legal pedestrian crossings in Charlottesville that do not have marked crosswalks, and still people have all the same rights to cross there. We're going to get into the arrest here in a matter of moments, and what led up to the arrest, the vandalism charge here.

Before we talk about the arrest, we have the police report that you sent us which we can put on screen. He sent us the police report, Kevin Cox. You had a little bit of a brouhaha, maybe a tiff with Brian Pinkston in council chambers. Yes. On the record, during the public comment portion of a recent city council meeting. Tell us what happened with Brian Pinkston, the vice mayor of Charlottesville in council chambers. I was speaking during my three minute comment and I was alluding to the fact that many of the people

who make decisions about the streets and roads in Charlottesville, in the city, don't live in the city and that for that reason the streets of Charlottesville are viewed as through roads meant to move people in and out of Charlottesville as quickly as possible. They're not through roads, they're residential streets. And so the issue really is over the designation of the street. And they told you essentially be quiet, right? They cut you off. Yes, they did.

They. Brian Pinkston did. Pinkston cut me off. He chided me for making an ad hominem comment, which I didn't make. It was, in my view, just an effort by Mr. Pinkston to trip me up and to use up some of my time. And he did that. And I got kind of angry and told him to be quiet and invited him to debate me, at which point he was quiet.

Brian Pinkston running for reelection for a second term on a ticket with Juan Diego Wade. Kevin Cox, our guest, let's talk about the arrest. What led up to the arrest prior to you purchasing from Amazon chalk ‑‑ that's right. To chalk a crosswalk on Elliott Avenue. You have gone on the record and said you contacted City Manager Sam Sanders. Yes. What did you do with communication with the top executive in Charlottesville, Virginia,

the City Manager Sam Sanders? Well, I emailed him ahead of time and said I was going to do this. What were you going to do specifically? I said I was going to paint a marked crosswalk. You were going to paint a what? A marked crosswalk at 2nd Street and Elliott Avenue. Okay, so you used paint and chalk in the same sentence. And I've heard you use paint and chalk together too.

Because paint and chalk I would say are quite different in their execution and their application. I've had reason to think about this and I think the noun paint is a lot different than the verb paint. Than the verb paint. Okay. And people use the verb to paint quite frequently to mark with a variety of different things. Okay. So I don't think that's really that much of an issue, the verb to paint.

I made it clear it was spray chalk. Okay. And so at exactly 11 a.m. on Saturday the 17th, I put down lines across Elliott to indicate that pedestrians would cross there. After I was finished at 1119, I emailed the city manager and told him that there is now a marked crosswalk at 2nd Street and Elliott Avenue in spite of you, I wrote. I know that's not very nice, but that's how I felt. And I also said, I use spray chalk. And I didn't hear any more from him. Did Sam Sanders respond to your emails in any capacity? No.

Did you get any communication of any kind from Sam Sanders? No. No phone call? No. No email? No. No in- any kind from Sam Sanders? No. No phone call? No. No email? No. No in-person conversation with Sam Sanders? Nothing. So next thing, what happens?

Well, after that, Mr. Sanders contacted the police chief. OK, so I'll jump in here. OK. Chief Cotcheis joined us on Tuesday. There has been multiple points of clarification on the record Chief Cotchis has made about Sam Sanders contacting the police department. Chief Cotchis, did you watch the interview with Chief Cotchis? Yes, I did, and he never used the word contacted. He used phone.

OK. You want to explain what you mean by that? Yes, I think that this is a red herring or just a false lead by saying phone. Maybe Mr. Sanders didn't actually pick up a telephone and call him. But the issue is not about what medium was used to exchange information between the two.

The issue is, did Mr. Sanders exchange information with Chief Kochis prior to my arrest? And the answer is yes, he did. How do you know that? I have the detective's report right in front of me. And I can read it. May I read it? Please.

OK. He's reading the detective's report. So an email was sent to city manager Sam Sanders from Kevin Cox stating there is a marked crosswalk now at 2nd Street and Elliott Avenue in spite of you. It's been amazing to watch this morning as numerous people both in cars and on foot stop when they notice it and thank me for doing this. It's chalk not paint. Please replace it with a real one.

Attached to the email was a picture of a roadway with white markings. After Sanders received this email, he asked for a risk assessment and notified Chief Cotches of the vandalism. Okay, so they used the word notify. Right. Okay. And I want to tell you something. Like I said, it doesn't matter what medium was used, but I would like to know.

And so I submitted an FOIA request this morning for those emails, for any emails exchanged by Sam Sanders and Chief Kotches on Saturday, May 17. How did you get arrested? You turned yourself into the police department. Yes, I was over here at the ‑‑ at Cumbre. Okay. The coffee shop.

Yes. At the coffee shop, which incidentally is where I got my haircut right before I got married in the courthouse. It used to be a barber shop. Yes. Wilbert Shifflett cut my hair and guaranteed my marriage would last forever right before I got married. Anyway, I was in Cumbre having a cup of coffee and the phone rang and it was the detective

who had a hard time initially telling me what she wanted. I think she was embarrassed. But she then did finally tell me that they had a warrant for my arrest. She had called me the day before to interview me and she said, we have a warrant for your arrest, can we come down to your house or what would you like to do? And I said, well, I'm nearby. I'll come over. So I walked over to the police station and sat in the lobby and waited. And while I was waiting, an officer rushed in. And he was very friendly.

And he talked to me. We had a very nice, cordial little chat there for a second. And then he went back into the station, returning, oh, 30 seconds later, looking very sheepish, and said to me, you know, this is really awkward. And then he handcuffed me. He handcuffed you in the police department? Yes.

OK. What was going through your mind as you get handcuffed in the police department? I was having a real difficult time dealing with my emotions because I was angry. Difficult time how? Well I was angry and I wanted to express that anger and that's not a good thing to do so I kept it inside of me.

But I didn't have much to say to anybody. So they handcuff you, take you where? They handcuff me and then took me to the jail and the detective and the officer both went to the jail. Once at the jail I was booked. This is the jail down Avon extended? Yes. The joint security complex that used to be called anyway. And once there I was fingerprinted, mug shots taken, I was searched.

I went before the magistrate for a hearing who released me on my own recognizance. And then the detective drove me back home. I think the fingerprints are on screen from the police report. You're 72 years old? Yes, sir. And damn proud of it. I respect that. Can I play devil's advocate with you?

Sure. For the sake of a talk show. Devil's advocate. Go ahead. Okay. talk show. Devil's advocate. We're on a two shot. On your prerogative, on your own dime, you chose to order what you're saying is water soluble chalk. Correct. I believe you have the receipts that justify it's water soluble chalk. Yes. To

create a crosswalk on Elliott Avenue, you're saying you notified the city manager via email beforehand that you were gonna do this. Yes. You are creating this sidewalk on Elliott Avenue because you're a pedestrian advocate who, your words has walked the last 25 years from basically Mead Park to your job

at the University of Virginia. That's not the only reason though. If that was the only reason that I did this, I'd be painting Mark Crosswalks all over town. It's this particular incident that really galvanized me. Okay. If you took a bird's eye view, a holistic view of this, and we're told someone in the community was going to paint a new traffic pattern call to action on a city owned road without having approval of any capacity from local government and was going to do this on his

own dime, would you think that person was going to have legal ramifications on his or her near horizon? I would assume so. Okay. So when you were doing this, did you anticipate getting arrested? No. When you were doing this, what did you anticipate the legal ramifications to be? I thought that the most likely thing that would happen would be they would inspect it, see that it was chalk, go get a tank truck and hose it off and then send me a fat bill for that labor.

That's what I thought would happen. Avenue, you had every reason to believe that the city was going to on taxpayer dollar paint over your chalk crosswalk and then bill you for the work and the labor and for the materials. Not paint it over, wash it off. I expected them to wash it off. The police chief said when sitting in your chair that they painted it over and then the chalk walk started to bleed through or see through. No, that's not what happened.

Explain to us what happened. I went and looked at it and watched as it happened. And what happened was the black stuff that they used to brush on to the white chalk did not adhere to the white chalk. It rained and the chalk layer and the black stuff both came off revealing more of the chalk but very faded underneath it. It didn't bleed through. It's a talk show. My job is to keep the tempo and keep the conversation and play devil's

advocate. If every resident in Charlottesville, Virginia, chose to utilize civil disobedience to, in their view, better the city, would we not have lawlessness and chaos in Charlottesville? Jerry, that's just not going to happen because people don't want to have to go through what I'm going through right now is one reason. And another important point is what I did was a protest. It wasn't intended to be a real traffic control device. It was squiggly white lines that washed away in the rain. It wasn't an attempt to mimic a actual authentic

crosswalk. It was an attempt to get attention so that this would be fixed once and for all. That attention that you were attempting to get, and I appreciate your conversation here, thank you for joining us. That attention that you were trying to get, was it not attracting the attention of vehicle traffic on Elliott Avenue and or pedestrian walkers on Elliott Avenue? And if it was attracting vehicle traffic and pedestrian traffic, aren't you creating a dangerous traffic pattern potentially? Because folks don't know if this is a crosswalk or

not. No, I'm not creating it. It's a legal pedestrian crossing. People cross there every day legally. They have as much right to cross. And they do. I didn't create that. They did. That legal pedestrian crossing was created by the city when they put sidewalks on both sides and according to state law, it's legal. I didn't do that. Now, as far as drivers noticing it, I hope they do and I know they did. As soon as the first white line went down, you could see drivers taking note of this

white line just like you and I do in our cars. I see a pedestrian crossing, it registers whether there's anybody in it or not. The crosswalk is not specifically there though. That doesn't matter. It's still a legal pedestrian crossing. Because you're saying there's two sidewalks on either side. No because of the orientation of it and because of state law. Read the state law section about pedestrians. It makes it very clear that in Virginia, jaywalking, for example, is not prohibited. Mid-block crossings are completely legal, and pedestrians enjoy the same protections and have the same responsibilities that they do at a marked intersection.

But does the state law indicate that everyday people can go on city-owned roads and paint their own traffic patterns at their leisure and on their own dime? I knew it wasn't against the law. It was an act of civil disobedience. Okay? You've hired an attorney. Yes, and a good one. Your attorney is very good.

I know of your attorney and his reputation. Your attorney ain't cheap. Is your attorney doing this work pro bono? No, not pro bono. Do you get a discount on the attorney rate? Yes. I think so. This civil disobedience when it's all said and done is going to probably cost you thousands of dollars. Would you do that again knowing what's happening right now? Would you do everything you have done right now knowing that you have been arrested? Well it depends on the situation. In this case...

You're facing a year in jail. I know that. It depends on the situation though. In this case it's very cut and dried that the city was wrong to deny that request. I want to go back to that for a second. Mr. Freeze said that they want people to use the other crosswalks that are hundreds of yards away, right? Well, if you're walking from Ix towards Elliott Avenue and you want to continue walking down Elliott Avenue,

there's a sidewalk only on the opposite side of the street, on the south side of the street. So if you're walking from X and you want to get to Elliott, your choices are, and this is what Mr. Freeze wants you to do, he wants you to walk in the street on the north side, several hundred yards and then cross the street there. But people don't do that. Many people walk down Elliott and go to 2nd

Street. And a lot of them actually use the crossing, but quite a few of them also jaywalk, mid-block between 6th Street and 2nd Street, walk in the street down to 2nd and then continue up 2nd. It's a link in a regular pedestrian route. Brennan Duncan said that he didn't want to put it down because it would only serve the 15 houses on Ware Street. He also said that people could walk out of their way, which they don't. Both of these underline the fact that Mr. Duncan

does not understand pedestrian commuting patterns. That is a link in a regular pedestrian route. This Brennan Duncan is the husband of Sally Duncan who's running for Almore County Board of Supervisors in the Jack Jewett district. Just want to highlight that for the record. Kevin, I you're speaking to someone who has a platform that reaches a lot of people who on an almost daily basis is holding City Hall and local government accountable in some fashion. I do it all the time. I am critical. I hold them accountable. I spare no punches

on this show. I understand the concept of civil disobedience. In some cases you can maybe describe that's what's happening here with the I Love Seville Show. I also am someone of practical reasoning. And in the most respectful fashion, sir, I mean what I'm about to say here, and I wanna be respectful. If we had a community where individuals on their own dime, on their own prerogative, on whatever time they choose, go into Charlottesville or Almore County and

change traffic patterns, alter rules, alter... Jerry, that's not what this was about. This was not a permanent change in traffic patterns. I get that. Or a legitimate fake. And, you know, it wasn't disguised at all. It was a protest that was intent and that's all it was intended to be. I understand that. I want to say one more thing. There are numerous instances all over Charlottesville of paint applied to the street that has been there for years with words like slow down, cat crossing. I've seen it.

The city knows about this and that person has not been arrested. Okay, so follow up question for you. Do you feel that you've been stigmatized or targeted because of your activist history? Absolutely. Okay, explain that. Well, I've had a lot of problems with the city. Mr. Sanders and I have had some serious arguments. In person?

Yes, in person. I've been lectured on my behavior in a very demeaning way that just made me angrier. And I got mad and I said and did some things that I regret. For example what? Oh, I just said that I don't know. I insulted the city council, said they were all sycophants. And you know, just really, I just lost it for a little while because I'm so frustrated at what I see as the pigheaded determination not to protect people who need to be protected

at that street. They cross there. Drivers need to be protected at that street. They cross there, drivers need to be notified of that. Are you passionate about this because in some ways, someone very close to you, you know, also needs protection? That's part of it. Put that in perspective for the viewers and listeners. I don't wanna talk too much about it,

but a family member is disabled and- Is this your wife? Yes. Okay. Yes. And she's been working very, very hard to get the city to be more compliant with the ADA and she has accomplished a whole lot that people don't know about in ways that make the city a little more ADA compliant. But the city has a long way to go. Do you know about the recent survey? Explain. Well, the city has updated their ADA plan,

and that update required a survey of all city streets and sidewalks, and in that survey, they found more than 48,000 ADA violations on the sidewalks. This is because of a long-term neglect at complying with the ADA by the city. How does your wife respond to this arrest? And this one year of potentially jail time?

Oh, she's upset with me and worried. Would you say some of your actions from a advocacy or activism standpoint are rooted in, A, genuine wanting of improvement for the city and, B, potentially hotheadedness, or C, all of the above? Well, it's mostly A, really. Would you say you're hotheaded? Oh, I am.

I am, and I've worked to control that, and I've made a lot of progress. Sometimes people deserve anger. There are plenty of times when I've felt very justified of progress. Sometimes people deserve anger. There are plenty of times when I felt very justified when I did get angry. There's various levels of anger, application and execution. And there's anger, execution and application that can inspire you to work harder and make positive change. There's anger and execution that leads to verbal arguments with the city manager. And there's anger and execution that leads to an arrest, maybe $1,000 or more out of your pocket and potentially a year in jail.

Let's hope not. That's why I got a good lawyer. What happens if Kevin Cox has to go to jail for a year? Well, he'll have a new experience. What happens with your wife? Well, there are other family members that will. Have you thought about this? Yes. Yes, I've thought about it. And I think there's very little chance that I will go to jail.

Why do you say that? Well, I have no criminal record. OK. It's a first time offense. Yeah. It's a minor thing. This is a very serious what you're facing here. Yes, I know. It's very questionable if the vandalism charges were

appropriate because I used chalk. Is this your attorney talking? No, this is me. OK. And what is your account? Does your attorney know you're coming on this show to talk like this? Yes, he does. And did he counsel you not to do this is me. OK. And what is your count? Does your attorney know you're coming on this show to talk like this? Yes, he does.

And did he counsel you not to do this? No. He's told me to say anything I want to anybody. And he said, distribute the police report. Look, we are right about this. And I feel very strong. I have nothing to hide. Ask me questions about how stupid I was,

and I'll answer them truthfully. I am. I'll answer them truthfully. I am. I, you know, I understand civil disobedience. I understand advocacy. I understand when advocacy goes to activism. I understand protests. I understand hotheadedness. I understand fighting for a better Charlottesville.

I understand fighting for your wife. it's all of this here. I'm not going to sit here, though, and say that you were right. And I mean it respectfully, but I don't think we live in a world where individuals can, on their own prerogative, with their own money, change traffic patterns. Because if we all did this, I have money, I have time, I want Charlottesville to be better. If I utilize my money, my time and influence to go make Charlottesville better by changing laws, we would be fucked. We would be fucked. Yes, I know, Jerry, but look at this particular situation and you have to understand that this isn't just about

that marked crosswalk, it's about generating public attention. What you're doing. To the overall problem. What you're doing. There are a lot of places in town that need marked crosswalks that see a fair amount of pedestrian traffic. You know what the city has done? They've gone and put marked crosswalks down and done quite a few, and they can say, what

are you talking about? We have all these marked crosswalks and hold up the list. But if you go and look at them, you'll discover there are cross dead end streets with three houses that absolutely do not need a marked crosswalk, whereas a block away there's a busy street and he refuses to put a marked crosswalk to protect the people who cross there every day. So that's what my civil disobedience was about, as well as that one crosswalk. It was about getting attention to the need for more marked crosswalks and the bigger issue of designating streets as arterial roads and at higher levels of use than they really merit. My street, Fairway Avenue, is

a narrow residential street. I know it well. It's rated as a minor collector. It's a narrow residential street. Now, as far as this, I want to say one thing about the designation thing. Elliott is a street, but at periods of time, it is used as a commuter corridor to move commuters away from the university and downtown and on their way home. Oh my God. Elliott Avenue is an extremely important road in Charlottesville. That's extremely busy, that without question is dangerous right now, without question needs much more attention from the city, without

question is neglected, without question needs to be made way more safe. And I think what Brett and Duncan has done overlooking Elliott Avenue and what City Hall have done overlooking Elliott Avenue, overlooking East High Street is reckless and on the cusp of malpractice. I agree with everything you are saying. I do not agree with purchasing spray chalk on Amazon and doing my own crosswalk on a city road that you have no control or autonomy of. It was borne out of frustration. I get that. I get that.

That's all I can say. And I would bet and we got everybody, every media outlet in town watching you here. You've got City Hall watching you here. Right. I know. You've got a lot of folks watching you right here. I ask you a sincere question and hope

for a very honest and genuine response. Do you regret what happened knowing where you are at right now? No. I'm glad to be here. I'm glad for the attention. I want people to realize that that street should have been changed immediately as soon as that terrible death occurred. But I want to clarify. It happened at another... The Liberian woman, local Charlton woman.

Mama Wasamai. She was a mother. Yes. She was struck by a teenager on Elliott Avenue and killed. That was not at the specific location of your crosswalk. No, it was at the other marked crosswalk that the city is telling people to walk to because they have enhanced it. The enhancements are mostly a joke and actually in some cases more dangerous. More dangerous how?

Well they put these plastic popsicle sticks, the pylons, they put them, a whole lot of them, on top of the bike lane stripe, okay? So they didn't really physically narrow the street at all, they just created this confusing lane. People who live there and walk through that have seen this and I have seen it also. People are live there and walk through that have seen this and I have seen it also. People are confused by the pickets and they go into the lane between the street

and the pickets. I saw one guy do it and use it as a merge lane accelerating onto Elliott. It's just not an effective way and it's also a huge waste of plastic. The pylons have their place but it's not everywhere. The city is throwing away tons of those things because they constantly... They crack, they break, they get torn down. They're pieces of crap, frankly. They're tokens. They're tokens. Look, we did something. It's for... Exactly. It's a perception management tool and not an actual practical application. That's what he means by tokens. That's right. Now, they put up flashing lights to warn oncoming drivers. I've walked a lot

and I know how the flashing lights work and I can tell you, many drivers ignore them even when there's a pedestrian in a crosswalk. It's all voluntary. All of this depends on the drivers. Most drivers are going to cooperate. It's the jerks who kill people on 5th Street that don't cooperate. And there's a problem. Viewers and listeners, let us know your thoughts. Let us know your thoughts of Kevin Cox and what's going on here with this crosswalk. Put them in the feed. I'll relay them live on air.

Your comments. You get a lot of comments coming in here. A lot of comments. We want to highlight Ray Cadell who's watching the program. And Ray Cadell is someone who speaks highly of you. Well, thank you. Ray Cadell is watching the show. I'm going to relay his comments exactly verbatim live on air.

He said, Kevin is a long-time first-class advocate for lots of different issues throughout many years here. He deserves a medal, not a summons. Ray Cadell also said, Jerry, have you mentioned that there was a pedestrian death at that exact dangerous intersection? And I corrected him in the comments, and you confirmed my correction. Yes, that pedestrian death was not there. We're in agreement there, right? It was at another crosswalk 100 yards up the hill. Yeah, okay.

That's an important point of clarification. I made that mistake last week. I've been doing this for a while. You've been doing it for a while. Correcting people. Yeah, I appreciate that. Janice Boyce Trevillion is watching the program. She disagrees with what you did.

She says, I agree with you, Jerry. If some young high school kid had done this, we would all be raving about the dangers of what they had done to that intersection. I can't say that that's really accurate or inaccurate. It's a subjective guess. Deep throat watching the program. I believe you know who deep throat is, but we're going to go by the moniker deep throat nevertheless to protect his anonymity.

But I do believe you know who he is. He says, I've heard people use the counterfactual argument Jerry just made about painting a traffic pattern, but that is not the right analogy. The point is that this is already a legal crossing, so marking it does not actually change anything about pedestrian or vehicle rights or responsibilities. That's not true of painting an eternal aid or something like that. He also says deep throat, can I share my own experience with Brennan Duncan and crosswalks? A crosswalk across barracks that I used ‑‑ that I got paved over.

This was clearly a mistake by the contractor. Instead of saying sorry, we will put it back, the traffic engineering came up with a bunch of species excuses. Kevin helped me show that one of those excuses relating to ADA was completely made up in the end the crosswalk was not back Ironically, Pinkston was the counselor who pressured staff to put it back go figure by now I think you know who deep throat is yeah, okay A lot of comments are coming in you have all the radio stations TV stations in print watching you right now I'm gonna throw this question to you. If I was your attorney, and I'm not an attorney, I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express and I'm just

having a conversation with Kevin Cox here on the I Love Seville show, in your defense, if I was your attorney, I would point to the sundials that are in the Belmont neighborhood, I've talked about this on previous shows, where residents in Belmont are with permanent paint going into the roads of Belmont, the streets of Belmont, not on roads, but intersections of Belmont and painting sun dials that are, you know, two, 300 square feet, massive sun dialials in the middle of the road on city‑owned roads. And these sundials are visible to vehicles, these sundials are visible to pedestrians,

to bicycles, bicycle riders. They get cars to stop and look at them, walkers to stop and look at them, kids to stop and look at them. They are legitimately changing the traffic, walking and biking patterns by painting sundials in Belmont. And nothing legally has ever happened to these people painting those sundials. Well, do you know that they didn't get permission first? I would know for ‑‑ I would bet you a bottle of top shelf booze that they did not get permission. I think you might lose that bet because there is a similar intersection over at the intersection

of Little High Street. I know the intersection. Well, tell them the intersection. Yeah. At Little High and 11th, I think it is. And the entire intersection has a huge painted mandala covering the entire intersection. Is that a better word, mandala? Is that what we're going to ‑‑ or sundial?

I think mandala. I haven't seen the ones that you're talking about, Delmont. I doubt it's a sundial. It's probably a mandala or sundial? I think mandala. I haven't seen the ones you're talking about. I doubt it's a sundial. It's probably a mandala. A big circular colorful design. And they went to the city and the city approved it. So I'm not ‑‑ But if the city approved it, they wouldn't have allowed children and adults to paint these mandalas or sundials without having any protection. The city can't say I approve you to go on our roads and in the middle of the day or in the middle of cars driving by there you can go and paint a mandala without offering

city protection from a person getting hit by a car. The city would get sued and lose every day and twice on Sunday. There's no way in hell the city approved that. You're basically saying the city said go paint on these roads and we're not going to say don't drive your cars on these roads? What if someone got hit by a car? »» No, I know the city approved it. I don't know how the process unfolded and I don't know that city employees weren't there to put up cones and direct traffic while they did. I don't know that.

The better defense for your case would be these people did it without notifying the city. Yes. And nothing happened to them from an arrest or vandalism standpoint. Right. Well, you know, look ‑‑ Can I help you find something? No, I got it. Okay.

Down on Caroline Avenue is where there's a lot of paint on the street that was put there more than five years ago, and the city knew about it and spoke to the homeowner. I don't know what transpired. I went down there last night and took pictures of it, and it's quite amazing how much paint there is there. The city knows about it. They didn't arrest her. They didn't cover it up. Yeah. I mean, so your case, what he's doing here is saying that I've been targeted because

of my activism. Absolutely. That's what he's saying. This is vindictive. That's what he's saying. Chief Kochess came on the show on Tuesday and said it has nothing to do about his activism. Uh-huh. Did you hear him say that?

Yeah, I heard him. What did you think of Chief Conscious's comments on the show on Tuesday? I think the most critical one, the most meaningful one was, he's my boss and I do what he tells me to do. Well, that's how it works. I know. I know. So, you know, that's… Sam Sanders is his boss.

That's where the responsibility lies then. Conscious is just the messenger. Conscious is the police chief who works for the city manager. Yes, he's the messenger for the police chief in this case. The police chief contacted him and told him… You're talking the city manager contacted the police chief is what you're saying. Yes. We have that in a detective's report.

Okay, let's just say hypothetically, let's just say, and I do believe that the city manager has contacted Chief Conscious. Yeah. Okay. Let's just say hypothetically, let's just say and I do believe that the city manager has contacted Chief Cotches. And how that contact was made is what's up for debate. And that's what caused Chief Cotches to get frustrated with the daily progress with its headline writing. But you're probably right. The city manager did probably message the police chief in some capacity and say, do we have some kind of legal exposure here? What is wrong with that? What is wrong with that? I don't get that either, frankly. So I expected him to do something.

Yeah, Sam Sanders should know why. That's why I sent him the email, because I expected him to, once he knew, do something. So I don't know that it's inappropriate for Mr. Sanders to take direct action, but it is inappropriate for him to use the process of being arrested, booked, charged, have to pay $1,000 in court costs and all of this. He's using that to punish me. No. He's following the letter of the law, Kevin.

No, he's not. Because if he was, he'd be doing it all over town. There are plenty of other examples that are not being addressed. That's the argument, Kevin. No, he's not. Because if he was, he'd be doing it all over town. There are plenty of other examples that are not being addressed. That's the argument you make. That's the argument you make. But what you did was against the law. Absolutely. You're admitting it was against the law.

You just happened to be in very visible way breaking the law. But you still broke the law. Do the others that painted the mandalas and the sundials at Belmont, should they probably face ramifications? I'll bet you after this show they will. And I'll bet you after this show those Belmont sundials and mandalas will be painted over and no one is going to be allowed to do that ever again. I'll bet you a bottle of high‑end booze, that's going to be some fallout from your work here, Kevin. I don't think that's necessarily true. As I said before, we do know that the one on Little High was done with the permission

and approval of the city. I don't know that the same circumstances don't apply to the ones in Belmont. City of Charlottesville cannot allow average Joes and average Josies to take permanent paint and paint artistic renderings on roads. They did it. But if they do that and that person gets hit by a truck or a car, then the person who dies family can sue the city. You can't allow them.

They can sue the city and get thrown out more likely. I don't know that. I don't know that. I just don't know that. And also it's a very slow street. I do know that the city approved that. I don't know that that that I just don't know that and also it's a very slow street. I do know that the city approved that and and the little high circumstance yes yeah I I will bet you that the artistic renderings that are done on city roads will not be allowed anymore. I don't know. I think that'll be collateral damage of this. Can I make one more comment about the speed on

Elliott? Yeah. The speed right now is 35 miles an hour on that stretch of Elliott from Ridge Street up to Avon. But on Cherry, on the other side of Ridge Street, the speed is 30 miles an hour at the park. Okay? Now, he seems the traffic engineer seems intent on keeping that road at a higher speed by calling it an arterial. I want you to think about this. What is the difference in travel time between in that six tenths of a mile between going 25 miles an hour? Nothing. Nothing. What is the difference in getting hit by a car going at 25, 35? Significant. It's a matter of life and death.

Significant. So what's the issue? I don't get it. I don't understand why they haven't reduced the speed limit and taken strong action. Probably because if they do that, they're going to lose face to you. And it's a pride issue. You know it. Would you agree with what I just said? Absolutely.

Yeah, it's a pride issue. And that's why civil disobedience and activism versus advocacy, there's ways of threading a needle. The way that you're threading a needle is the bull in the China shop way. Well, I tried the other way. The bull in the China shop way often creates resistance. It's the whole vinegar and honey mythology. We collected 900 signatures.

I've been through this with the city council over and over again, constant emails. We have tried the legitimate ways and out of frustration I did this. I wanted to get the city's attention and I want to bring attention to the bigger issues of speed limits throughout town and the absence of marked crosswalks at critically used legitimate pedestrian crossings. I respect that. And I understand where you're coming from. And if you have any questions that you want to jump in, Judah, I'm happy to weave you in. I sincerely mean that. Judah often has questions that are very good. Just give me a sign that you want me to weave you in

on a three shot. Amanda Burns from the Charlottesville School Board is watching the program. She says, on a separate topic, I want to thank Kevin Cox for caring for the flower gardens along the roadside in front of Reeds over the years. Your work there has not gone unnoticed. I also want to piggyback on what Amanda Burns has said.

You've done a lot of good for Charlottesville. You have done significantly more good for Charlottesville than you have done bad. What you have done on East High Street should be commended. And I'd love to get your take on what's going on with East High Street, because I've often said on this show, and frankly, Elliott Avenue, too, I said the most underperforming, the most

unsafe, the most underutilized corridors in the city of Charlottesville are East High Street and Cherry Avenue, Elliott Avenue. And it's clear cut. I've highlighted the lack of cohesion or uniform nature of the sidewalks. I've highlighted the piss poor pedestrian and bicycle safety, bicycle lanes I've highlighted. I've highlighted the piss-poor pedestrian and bicycle safety, bicycle lanes I've highlighted. I've highlighted the speed. I've highlighted the volume of traffic that go onto these two-lane roads because they're such important thoroughfares for the city of Charlottesville. I've just used common sense when talking about East High Street and Cherry Avenue and why they're unsafe and underperforming. Can you put in

perspective some of the efforts you've made to East High Street? Well, I was a crossing guard at Hazel and East High and I saw what the situation was like. There's a lot of congested, fairly fast moving traffic on East High, it's difficult to get across. One problem that happens frequently there is that drivers will block the intersection of Hazel and East High and traffic backs up to the traffic signal and we have gridlock.

And so the solution to that would be a don't block box. And I consulted, I asked Brennan Duncan to install a don't block box at that intersection and he said yes, that's a good idea. Eight months later it hadn't been done. So again I decided to take action. I made my own do not block intersection sign that looked exactly like a legitimate one and I nailed it to a utility pole near the intersection. Two days later the sign was torn down and the don't block box was installed by the city. Okay. Then there's the sidewalk. For many, many years there was a dirt

path in front of the brick building that AT&T uses. And it took quite a bit but Mr. Sanders was new. He and I got along great. He was very helpful. He got that sidewalk built using funds meant to build safe routes to school for children. The big issue with East High, though, really is the absence of any sidewalk at all on what is the south side, and that's from the intersection of Mead and East High all the way down to the phone company building. It's very dangerous. It's extremely dangerous. Somebody was killed there.

Yeah, bicyclists get hit all the time. Jude and I have crossed East High Street on a number of times, walking into Charlottesville Sanitary Supply with parking in one of those side roads so we don't take up our clients parking in front. And crossing that street on foot, it's like you're playing Frogger. It's extremely dangerous. People are hauling ass down East High Street. And

for you to walk or try to get across without a crosswalk is extremely dangerous. And we're able‑bodied men over here. I cannot imagine what a mother pushing a stroller or someone carrying bags or someone that's not ‑‑ you know, someone that is not, you know, as fluid with their movements, what they're going through, crossing East High Street. Talk to me about what you think of the State of the Union in Charlottesville right now. How long have you been in Charlottesville? 62 years. I've lived here now in the city.

I've lived here for close to 30. Close to 30 you lived in the city. You've been in this area, Charlottesville or Almarle, for 62 years? Yes. Okay. What do you make of Charlottesville Virginia right now? Oh it's a great place. I like it a lot and there's and it's going to be better. I think it's undergoing dramatic demographic change right now. How so? I think call it revitalization or gentrification but many of the- Those are two very different things. Okay. Well, it's being revitalized by people who are moving into inner city and urban neighborhoods close to downtown, and they're moving there.

One of the reasons many of them move there is because they want to live in a walkable community. They want to live somewhere they can put their kids on the cargo bike and go to the grocery store. They tell me this. When I work on my flower garden in front of Reeds, I give away free flowers and I talk to people. And I have been really excited by the number of younger families that have moved into town. Town is going to go places. The higher density new zoning, like it or not, is going to bring more people into town and crossing the street.

What do you think of the new zoning ordinance? I think it's overkill, way overkill. Why is the new zoning ordinance overkill? I think that the densities are too high in some cases and I don't particularly like the mandate against parking minimums. I think that that's going to have a dramatic impact. You're going to have to have money to buy a parking space and it's also going to increase cars congesting, blocking pedestrian access. The cars ought to be in a garage under the building. I am in agreement with everything you just said there. What do you think of the folks at Livable Seaville? They won't talk to me. I asked them to help me with the second and Elliott and they rejected that. Why will Livable Seaville not talk to you?

I don't know. What do you think of the folks at Livable Seaville? I think they're very inclined to accept dogmatically whatever comes out of the urban planning academic ivory tower where the air is thin. What does that mean? It means that sometimes some of the things that come out of urban planning don't make any sense at all. For example? Well, sometimes they make sense, sometimes they're misused.

For example, right now the city has increased zoning density dramatically in order to bring down housing prices. Supply and demand. More supply stabilizes prices. Yes. And what they neglect in all of this is that more than half of the urban area is controlled by Albemarle County's land use policies. And that's going to have a dramatic impact on the entire housing market, including that

portion of it in the city. Five percent. And they And then consider that. Five percent of Albemarle County is allocated for development, only five percent. And of that five percent, we're not at full capacity, nor do we have the topography of that five percent to truly actualize development. I think Livable Seaville, this is me talking, is an organization that if we're not careful is going to damage the future of Charlottesville.

Yeah, I think you might be right. One of the things about- Why do you think I might be right? Well, because the higher zoning is going to dramatically drive up housing prices. It's not going to bring it down. It's going to drive it up. The area has become very attractive to people all over the country with money who want to live in what Charlottesville is becoming and there's demand and the demand is growing

I mean I've been just amazed at the prices of homes. Shacks really near me. What do you make a city council? I think they're a disappointment. They're nice people. All across the board or Yes. Or some specifically? Yes. They don't serve the public as advocates. We need counselors who will speak up for us and act as ombudsman or, you know, take our issues to the administration. In Charlottesville, we have a weak mayor form of government, and the administration has tremendous authority, and they can pretty much do what they want to do government and the administration has tremendous authority and they can pretty

much do what they want to do and the voters have very little recourse. And so I think it's... That's not true. That's not true. The voters can vote different people on council who then can do different things with the administration. Yes, they can. But as far as administrative day-to-day control goes, they have very little...

Yeah, they have no control. That's what I'm talking about. Yeah. Yeah. We're a one-party city. Yes. Yes. Any thoughts on that? It's a shame, but I understand why. You have to bear in mind we have an awful lot of transient individuals. That's one thing. We have the university right here. Most college towns are very liberal because of the presence of academics. Higher education.

Right. And we have a kind of a unique situation. Only about between 10 and 12 percent of the adults living in the city actually voted for the people on city council. Council. So I think really I've come to feel like the City Council is for me a waste of my time and I'm better off taking my issues directly to the staff. Yeah, but that okay, okay, directly to the staff as opposed to directly to the asphalt. I will I want to close I want to wind this interview down here. I want to wind this interview down here. Kevin Cox, I'm going to ask you what your legacy is going to be for Charlottesville.

I hope it's open sidewalks and moved utility poles and all the curb ramps built. I have a vision actually of Charlottesville as a really nice place, but right now the sidewalks there, they seem to be functionally pads for the utility companies, not walkways. And so I wanna see the city really blossom like it can be. It's dirty, there's litter in a lot of places, debris in the gutters. The city can be a really beautiful, livable place

where people are happy to walk out of their homes. Remember, our environment makes a big difference as to how we feel. You want people in Pros prospect to feel better? Well don't have them walk out of the house and see the crap that's in front of their faces now. Yeah. You know what?

A large portion of what this guy says I'm in very much agreement with. An extremely large portion of what he says. I'm very much agree with him. It's just I'm a criminal and you can't support that, right? That's not it. I have no problem with it. That's not it. I have no problem with it. That's not it either. My issue is you changing traffic patterns.

That's my issue. If Judah, you, me, my wife, and 1,000 other people change traffic patterns at the same time in Charlesville, we would have chaos and lawlessness. Still not a good analogy that it wasn't changing traffic patterns for one thing. It didn't change traffic patterns. You painted a crosswalk on the road. I painted a bunch of thin white stripe lines across it.

It was pretty clear what it was. I know. That's going to be up to a courtroom to decide there. Yeah. And that's a precarious position to be in. Yeah. You're basically right now, right now, you have put a year of your freedom. Yes.

Judah, this is what this man has done. This man has put a year of his freedom in the decision making, in the eyes, in the temperament of that day of other people in a courtroom. I would never take that risk. You have done that to try to better the city when you have indicated you have a handicapped wife at home that needs you for care. Well, she doesn't need me. She's independent. She can take care of herself. Might be a little

more difficult, but I'm not going to say she needs. Okay. Might be more difficult. You've put a year of your life and freedom in the hands of other people. Yeah. Yeah. That is a huge effing risk. Well, maybe I'll write a book about it when it's over. I'll tell you what, getting arrested and having handcuffs put on was really an experience that I think a lot of people would benefit from just because it gives them insight into what people go through.

It was an experience I actually kind of value. It wasn't fun though, it was extremely humiliating. Well, if you think about it, your arrest was done in a police department without anybody really seeing you. There's much more visible and humiliating arrests than you going to a police department and quickly being whisked away into a private room. And you had the police officer drive you home. And I had a very sympathetic police officer and a sympathetic detective who I really feel

bad for actually. Well no detective or police officer joins the force and puts on a badge and carries a gun to arrest 72 year old men for painting crosswalks on roads. The travesty is the detective was new, okay? A very nice young woman. She was new. This was her very first case as a detective. Stop it. Yes. Is that true? It is. You popped her detective cherry by having her arrest you for a chalked crosswalk. I didn't have her arrest me.

Is this where you're going to say Sam Sanders? Yes. Sam Sanders did not have you arrested. He contacted Kochis and said do something. And Kochis has to do what? We'll see what that email has And Cotchis has to do what limits the exposure for the city. Right. Because if Cotchis doesn't limit the exposure for the city, then he professionally is exposed. Right, he did what he's supposed to do. I don't deny that. But we'll see when they respond to the FOIA request I submitted this morning. We'll see what email exchange took place and what Mr. Sanders actually did say. I don't know that he told conscious to arrest me. I just know he contacted me.

There's not a doubt in my mind that you're gonna be like a dog with a bone on this. You know it. I do know it. We'll close with this. When are you in court again? Is it July the 14th? Best deal day. Is it what is it? Yes. July 14th? To the barricades! What time what time on 14th of July? Do you know? 9 a.m. 9 a.m.? Yes, sir.

This story is going to continue for another 45 days. I hope supporters show up. This story is going to continue for another 45 days. You see that, Judah? You know what you should do is you should probably launch some kind of GoFundMe to see if the community will cover your fees tied to vandalism and court costs. Because my prediction is your case is going to get thrown out, but you're going to be

on the hook for the $1,000 plus in vandalism charges and the court costs. »» Right. I think you're right. I think it will get thrown out, too. I'm surprised it hasn't been dropped already. »» But if they dropped it already, they wouldn't have the $1,000 court costs. »» Exactly. Exactly. Kevin, thank you. Was the interview fair? Yes, it was very good. We're about to close.

I want to talk to you all fair. I'm going to be two more minutes. Was I fair? Yes, you were. Did you have a good time today? Yeah, I did. You could have been harder with me. I wasn't going to be. Kevin Cox, Judy Wickower, Jerry Miller, Friday edition of the I Love Seaville show. You see the premise of the program. I just want to be the water cooler of conversation in Charlottesville. And I'll close with this.

I sincerely mean this. I think Mr. Cox truly wants what is best for Charlottesville. I do truly mean that. Can I say one thing? I think the execution is left to be terminated. I want to add a caveat to that to make it clear I am not running for City Council and I am not going to. Are people asking you? Yes. I mean, this guy, we have somebody on YouTube saying Kevin Cox for mayor. It's not going to happen. Well, you would have to run as an independent at this point.

Yeah, well, it's just not going to happen. There's no reason to ask questions about it. Can you imagine a city council where Brian Pinkston wins and Kevin Cox is sitting right next to him on the dais? Look at this. The man gets a chuckle out of that. It wouldn't be good. Brian Pinkston and Kevin.

No. Well, I'm not, I'm as qualified, I'm as unqualified as they are and I'm not going to put myself in that position. Closing with a zing right there. Alright, that's the Friday edition of the I Love Civo show. So long everybody. I need to get a photo with you. Okay..