The I Love CVille Show With Jerry Miller! - CVille Econ Dev. Office Eyeing On Downtown Mall; Econ Office Wants To Reimagine Downtown Mall

Episode Date: December 9, 2024

The I Love CVille Show headlines: CVille Econ Dev. Office Eyeing On Downtown Mall Econ Office Wants To Reimagine Downtown Mall What Does A Reimagined Downtown Look Like? Moose’s By The Creek To Close Down On 12/31 Phil Dulaney Estate Owns Moose’s Real Estate Dulaney Estate Under Contract To Sell Toddsbury Most Impactful Business Closings Of 2024 UVA Basketball Stumbles Into Christmas Break Read Viewer & Listener Comments Live On-Air The I Love CVille Show airs live Monday – Friday from 12:30 pm – 1:30 pm on The I Love CVille Network. Watch and listen to The I Love CVille Show on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn, iTunes, Apple Podcast, YouTube, Spotify, Fountain, Amazon Music, Audible, Rumble and iLoveCVille.com.

Good Monday afternoon, guys. I'm Jerry Miller. Thank you kindly for joining us on the I Love Seville Show. Today's headline lineup is absolutely loaded. We have an institutional greasy spoon, a diner of generational proportions announcing its closing.'s fantastic owners, Amy Benson and her partner Moose, have decided to close or turn the chapter on a hog waller destination that is beloved. Moose's by the Creek at the end of the year and Amy with this fantastic eatery, a fantastic eatery that initially was Moores Creek and is now Moose's by the Creek. We'll talk about that on today's program. I want to talk Phil Delaney. Since his passing, some of his properties have started to move. Ladies and gentlemen, first it was the Todsbury that goes under contract. And we're hearing through very reliable folks that the Todsbury and Ivy, a once beloved pizzeria, is now going to go through a reimagining if it can pass certain

contingencies. We know the septic tank is a train wreck at the Todsbury and Ivy. We know it's got limitations and concerns with its proximity to a creek behind the Todsbury and Ivy. And we know what's underground the Todsbury is also concerning. We know the building is in disarray. Yes, this is a Phil Delaney property. Phil Delaney has since passed away. His widow and his estate are now looking to fire sale real estate. And it doesn't necessarily mean that they're going to offer ridiculous price points, but it does mean that they're much more open-minded to selling Phil Delaney's properties, a man who never wanted to sell anything. We bring up Phil Delady and his estate because, folks, the property around Mooses, the property including Mooses, owned by this estate. So I want to take a look at what happened

with Mooses by the Creek, the decision to close at the end of the year from a common sense standpoint, from a landlord standpoint, from an uncertain future standpoint, when the state is looking to offload holdings and frankly pay back a lot of the back taxes that are owed on the late Mr. Delaney's properties. I'll offer some perspective on that on today's program. Judah Wickhauer, yours truly on the I Love Seville show. And as we say on this program, Judah, it is time to make the donuts. And how we make some of those donuts is Charlottesville Sanitary Supply. Judah, 60 years of consecutive business,

Charlottesville Sanitary Supply is a business you need to support. John Vermillion, Andrew Vermillion, East High Street, Charlottesville Sanitary Supply, a family-owned business that's three generations strong, online at charlottesvillesanitarysupply.com.

A lot we're going to cover on today's program, guys, but of course we're going to give love to the folks at Mexicali Restaurant. They are doing well. The Old World of Beer location, Johnny Arnalis and River Hawkins, Mexicali Restaurant, Latin Fusion, Cocktail Bar, venue, street art museum. My, oh my, what an experience they have created at the old World of Beer spot. Judah Wittkauer, studio camera, then a two-shot. A lot I want to cover on today's program, including the men's basketball team stumbling into Christmas break. A lot I want to cover on today's program, including yet another

institutional business closing its doors this year. We've seen a lot of them, cover on today's program, including yet another institutional business closing its doors this year. We've seen a lot of them, Judah. Mel's Cafe. Blue Moon Diner. Moose's by the Creek. Just to name a few. We've seen how many businesses shut down Judah Wickhour in Dairy Market. Citizen Burger Bar.

Take It Away Sandwich Shop, GRN Burger, South and Central, to name a few, many more than that. 2024 and a lot of the ways known for the year of the F&B closing, that topic on today's show. I ask you the same question at the start of every program. Which headline today intrigues you the most and why? I think it's sad to see Moose's go, but I'm excited for what Amy and Moose will do next. I'm excited as well. Make sure we're live, if you can do next. I'm excited as well.

Make sure we're live, if you can, on the I Love Seville group. I want to first start with the Sean Tubbs newsletter and the Office of Economic Development in the city of Charlottesville hosting a meeting this month about reimagining the downtown mall. They're going to try to reimagine what the downtown mall could be from a retail and strategy standpoint, from a parking standpoint, from working with the tourism arm, Visit Charlottesville,

reimagining the downtown mall from a soup to nuts standpoint. And I think you and I could give a lot of perspective on this topic, J-dubs. And viewers and listeners, I want your perspective on what Chris Engel and the Office of Economic Development must do in conjunction with stakeholders as it applies to reimagining the downtown mall. I'll offer my two cents, and then Judah, you jump in here. First, I love what Friends of Seville are doing. Greer Achenbach and her team at Friends of Seville are creating a reason to come downtown that is family-focused. Friends of Seville will host their weekly show

or their once-a-month show, the Downtown Spotlight, this Thursday. On this Thursday show, Friends of Seville has Major Mark Van Meter of the Salvation Army to talk about the conversion of a homeless shelter on Cherry Avenue from a thrift store to a shelter. I bring that up. Greer Achenbach at her downtown spotlight Thursday at 2.30 p.m. with Major Mark Van Meter of the Salvation Army. Make sure you watch that show on Thursday. I bring that up because the first step with reimagining the downtown mall, if you're Chris Engel in the Office of Economic Development and your stakeholders that are tied to Charlottesville is the homeless story. It is whether reality or whether unfair, the perception is there is a houseless, homeless crisis on the most important eight blocks in a 300,000 person region.

And one of the opportunities to alleviate or solve this strategy is by creating additional shelters that are not necessarily right on the mall. The Haven is on the mall. We saw a fight earlier this year that started at the Haven and had one person running from the Haven next to Hamilton's Restaurant First in Maine, running for their life as two others chased him. And the two others caught him and stomped him and beat him over a dispute that started at the Haven on Market Street. We must come up with strategies for shelters that are not tied to the downtown mall to solve the perception or the branding issue of houselessness or homelessness and the crisis there is on these eight blocks. I think what Friends of Seville are doing is amazing. If you have a chance to come downtown, you will see lighting. You will see free events. You will see a train ride for kids.

You will see a beautiful heart with the word Seville next to it. Perfect for selfies. Magic on the Mall. Magic on the Mall. Magic on the Mall. A peppermint trail where contributing restaurants have agreed to make or create a holiday cocktail. An opportunity for you to do an elf hunting. Hunt for a scavenger hunt of elves on the downtown mall. They're doing, Friends of Seville has encouraged storefront owners on the mall to decorate their storefronts in competitive fashion,

where the winning holiday storefront will get props and forever live in, not infamy, but forever live in Hall of Fame status and the downtown storefront Hall of Fame. What they're doing is building reasons to come downtown for destination, reasons to come downtown with your family. It's brilliant. And Friends of Seville should be applauded for the efforts of what they're doing. The first step you need to do if you're Chris Engel in the Office of Economic Development is to work more with Greer

and Friends of Seville. I hope Greer hears this. The second step that Chris Engel in the Office of Economic Development need to do is to create ways to alleviate the perceived homeless crisis that is downtown. The third step they have to figure out is to manage the branding issue that is parking. Judah and I work downtown. Is there a parking problem downtown, Judah? It can be difficult at times. I completely disagree with you. Really?

Completely disagree with you. You think parking downtown is difficult? It can be, depending on what your goal is. What is the goal? If your goal is to park on the downtown mall in front of Hamilton's and walk out your driver's side door five steps to the front door of the restaurant, that's going to be difficult. But if you do not mind walking two blocks to get to Hamilton's or three blocks to get to Hamilton's. That is not difficult in the least. That's true.

This is a perfect example of what I'm talking about here. Judah Wickhauer, you have worked downtown for how long? Years. 15 years you've worked downtown. No. 14 years?

I think that's still a reach. You've worked at this company for 14... You've worked downtown for... I can tell you exactly how long you've worked downtown. You've worked downtown for 13 and a half years. Okay. 13 and a half years. And you've never had... And I'm just

having a conversation with you. In those 13 and a half years, have you ever had difficulty parking downtown? Yeah, it's not always easy, but then I don't park in the two-hour spots. This is the branding conundrum, the perception conundrum, that downtown has to figure out, that the Office of Economic Development has to figure out. Here's a man who's worked 13 1⁄2 years in downtown, and on a very well-listened-to talk show, he's saying parking downtown is difficult. I said it can be.

I am of the absolute opposite end of the spectrum on this one. I mean, there have been times when I've driven your car around for 10 years. But you've always found a spot. Yeah, eventually. You've always found a spot. You've never had to not park downtown when you're driving the company car.

Never had to? You mean park further out? Every time when you've driven the company car, you've found a spot downtown. Have you ever had to park on West Main or the UVA corner? Or have you ever had to park anywhere besides the downtown area? So in 13 and a half years, you've never had to not park downtown. That's the point.

That's what the Office of Economic Development has to do, what stakeholders have to do, is they have to be like, look, you will find parking in some capacity downtown. It may take you a couple of circles around the block, but it'll work. And guess what, ladies and gentlemen? That's how it is in downtowns everywhere.

You want to park in Carytown, around Carytown and Richmond? You're going to drive around Carytown before you find a space. You want to park in downtown Asheville, which is very similar to Charlottesville? You're going to drive around downtown Asheville until you find a space. Downtown Hendersonville and North Carolina, you want to park there? You're going to drive around Hendersonville until you find a space. Colonial Williamsburg, Georgetown, McLean, all the same. You want to park in Park Slope? If you want to park in the Upper East Side? You want to park in where? Tribeca? You're going to drive around until you find the spot. Somehow they have to manage that conundrum.

And another issue that they've got to manage is this. It's another issue that they've got to manage. You've had some business come into downtown Charlottesville that I have said on this program is not the right fit. I've highlighted the purchase of the Charlottesville that I have said on this program is not the right fit. I've highlighted the purchase of the Charlottesville Redevelopment and Housing Authority

of the old Vita Nova building right in the middle of the mall. I've highlighted the fact that you have the, what do you call it, the Operation Hope, the folks that have done hard time and are now trying to assimilate back into society,

that storefront is in the old Bashir spot. That's not a good fit for them all. I've highlighted the fact that the city is funding a food and beverage incubator in downtown Charlottesville. That's not a great idea. Having a food and beverage incubator funded with taxpayer dollars, a New Hill Development Corporation endeavor, right in downtown Charlottesville,

to compete with the businesses that are struggling to survive, that is not a good idea. I've highlighted some of the commentary that Derek Bond, the owner of the melting pot, has passed along in the comment sections of this show, where he has struggled with the city to get basic things like lighting. He is right there on Water Street. What's the street right next to the Commonwealth Sky Bar? The old Commonwealth Sky Bar? You're talking about the one that crosses them all?

Bill Nichman Street, right there on the side street. We just rented that office space over there. That's Fifth. Fifth Street, right off of Water. They can't get that lit with the city lights. I've highlighted on this show that very obvious

storefronts or very obvious trophy properties on the mall remain vacant, especially the ones on City Hall side. When will draft tap room open? That's a good question. We're told any time now. The floors have been redone. The kegs are out.

The taps are up. That needs to open. Alan Kajine's Commonwealth Sky Bar is nowhere close to opening. The space right next to Bagby's has been vacant since the Blue Ridge Country Store, one of the owners of the Blue Ridge Country Store, went, what we heard, is bankrupt. We hear the Bagby's team is taking over the old Blue Ridge Country Store location to expand their operations. This side of the mall, the free speech side of the mall, needs these properties to open because right now these properties are critical to driving traffic

from the Omni side of the mall, from the code side of the mall, to the other side of the mall. And I want to ask this question, and it's kind of a carryover from the conversation of previous weeks is what's best for downtown Charlottesville apartment towers on the mall it's a conversation that's happening right now is an apartment tower on the mall what's best for downtown Charlottesville I don't think the merchants that are on the mall can survive the two to three years of construction of building an apartment tower on the mall. Those that are pushing the apartment tower forward saying you want density in Charlottesville are saying this density will help revitalize or build an economic ecosystem in downtown Charlottesville. And my response to that is maybe, but what it will do is crush the businesses that are here right now. It could fortify or drive economic activity for businesses that choose to take over the spots of the businesses that were crushed during the construction process.

But the ones that are here now, it will crush them. There's a lot of reimagining that needs to happen in downtown Charlottesville. Another question I have, is the future of downtown Charlottesville actually brick and mortar retail? We're heading into a world where you can buy anything with the click, a tap of your finger on your phone. You know what's going to change retail altogether? It's live streaming influencer shopping. When the people that you follow on Instagram or on Twitter and Facebook are getting on Facebook lives like this, Instagram lives, LinkedIn lives, Twitter lives, Amazon prime has a live streaming service. Did you know that?

No, I don't think I did. You can stream live now on Amazon as an influencer. And shopping is going to be reimagined where you're going to have influencers with large followings doing lives like that saying like, you see this right here? This is an I Love Seville Yeti Cup. Exclusive to the I Love Seville show. You want to show your love for Charlottesville? Only we can sell the I Love Seville show. You want to show your love for Charlottesville? Only we can sell the I Love Seville trademark Yeti cup. Buy it from iloveseville.com. And that's what shopping is going to be.

You'll have influencers at various niches. You saw influencers in a lot of ways determine the United States presidential race. Joe Rogan, more people watch Rogan's interview with Trump than they were watching broadcast television and their coverage of the presidential race. As we become more, as content and live streaming becomes more ubiquitous on hardware in our hands that becomes more robust and more innovative and more

powerful, you will see retail be completely reimagined. And then retailers have to ask themselves this question. Are we going to spend $6,000 or $7,000, $8,000 a month to be in the primo shopping district when people aren't buying our widgets on our shelves in this capacity anymore? It's bananas. I'm not sure retail is the future for downtown Charlottesville.

Huge meeting coming up with the Office of Economic Development. How would you reimagine the mall, Judah Wickauer? I'd add the benches back. Maybe add another place to use the bathroom. Would anyone just coming to the downtown mall know that you can go into your place? I'm not even sure that's open anymore. Yeah, not either. I'm not sure that bathroom in your place is open anymore.

Neil Williams says Judah parking like traffic is relative. If you grew up in Nelson County, one traffic light, your perspective is different than someone who grew up in Williamsburg with significant historic area parking restrictions. Bingo. We went to colonial Williamsburg all the time, especially around the holidays. And we knew that we would be weaving in and out of Duke and Gloucester Street, around Duke and Gloucester Street, around Weave and Marry until we found a parking space, even if it was three or four blocks away. My parents live in Flat Rock between Hendersonville, North Carolina and Asheville, North Carolina. We love to go brewery hopping, hop around the breweries in Hendersonville and Asheville. And my wife and I and our friends know when we visit, we're going to be spending

15 or 20 minutes weaving in and out of streets until we find on street parking. Charlottesville somehow has to convey to its residents, its residents here, because I don't think the tourists have an issue, but Charlottesville in some way has to convey to its residents, coming downtown to park is the same thing as coming downtown to park at Scott's Edition in Richmond, Carytown in Richmond, downtown Hendersonville, downtown Asheville. And that is a branding and advertising campaign. I hope the Office of Economic Development realizes that. It's a branding and advertising campaign. I hope the Office of Economic Development realizes that.

It's a branding and advertising campaign. You may want to start a parking series where someone on your team says, I'm going to show you the 12 days of parking in downtown Charlottesville and how easy it is. That's a great idea. And then use social media to get it out there. All right. A lot we're media to get it out there. All right.

A lot we're going to cover on today's program. Judah Woodcower, yours truly, Jerry Miller. We've got to get to Moose's By the Creek story. Are we not live on the group, Judah? We are. We're live on the group? Yeah. You're certain of that?

Oh, you are. Excellent work. Thank you very much, Judah B. Woodcower. What did you, as you get that lower third on screen, what did you make of the, Vanessa Parkhill says, so the influencers selling on Amazon will become the new home shopping network. That's a perfect description, Vanessa Parkhill. Vanessa Parkhill, you're a smart, smart, smart person. Imagine the home shopping network, but on significant steroids, where previously there used to be only QVC in the home shopping network, where you had to apply to sell on the home shopping network or QVC. Lori Grenier from Shark Tank, I might be butchering her last name, but

Lori, the beautiful shark on Shark Tank, she got her start as a star on QVC or the Home Shopping Network. Now everyone has their own Home Shopping Network or QVC at the palm of their hands. All they need to do is get an iPhone on a tripod with some good lighting and build up a following. And you are an influencer that can stream and sell things. We did a telethon on behalf of the Thomas Jefferson Community Land Trust. I think now the Piedmont Community Land Trust. And we raised tens of thousands of dollars on the I Love Seville Network by me and various people sitting across from me on this network for 10 straight hours asking the community for help. And we raised tens of thousands of dollars. Remember that? Mooses by the Creek, you want to set the stage or shall I? Why don't you you might be better at it let's see so

everybody is just hearing about this from Mooses by the Creek they've posted it on their Facebook page that come December 31st the end of this month Mooses by the Creek will be

closing down and the owners will be closing down, and the owners will be moving on to some other venture. Julian Shaver, I'm here for the Mooses coverage zest for life, energetic, high energy, meets Melinda Moose Stargell. When Melinda Moose Stargell is working part-time at Moores Creek Restaurant. Melinda Moose Stargell. Talented softball player. Grew up in the area. Community pillar. Amy Benson.

Brilliant woman. Accountant. Bookkeeper. Knows numbers inside and out. After they meet at Moores Creek Restaurant. Amy and Moose start dating. The year was 2003 they decide to purchase

Moores Creek Restaurant I've spent many a day in Moores Creek Restaurant and I've spent many a day in Mooses by the Creek stark contrasts Mooses by the Creek family friendly mooses by the creek, family friendly, mooses by the creek, lively mooses by the creek, community melting pot, mooses by the creek, an opportunity to take a selfie with the antlers of a moose at the entrance and exit to the restaurant. How many people have mistakenly stabbed themselves

in the back of the head by the antlers of that moose? I guarantee you it's hundreds. They've poked the back of their head. Sausage gravy, breakfast, brunch, coffee, an opportunity to see people you haven't seen in forever, priced fairly, tables turning quickly, friendly faces. An opportunity to see people you haven't seen in forever. Priced fairly. Tables turning quickly. Friendly faces.

This is an institutional type business. And the same breadth of Blue Moon Diner, Mel's Cafe, and Lumpkins in Scottsville. All of which have closed this year alone. Our community, Charlottesville, our community, Alamaro County, and our community, Central Virginia, have lost charm. The type of charm that separates our community from every Tom, Dick, and Harry Main Street in America. When Blue Moon Diner, Mel's Cafe, Lumpkins, and Moose's all close in the same calendar year. The community is gutted. And it's gutted because these type of businesses are your melting pot for communal spirit. I'll give you, I want to go deeper in the story.

I'm going to go past what you've read in the Daily Progress or past the few paragraphs you've seen on television or heard on the radio. Who owns the Mooses by the Creek Real Estate, Judah Wickhauer? You put it somewhere. It's literally in the headlines that you're rotating on screen. Phil Delaney. Phil Delaney, who has passed away. Phil Delaney, ladies and gentlemen, a man who recently passed away, July 15th, 2023, at 72 years of age. Phil Delaney went to the UVA McIntyre School, graduated from the UVA McIntyre School of Commerce. He played football at the University of Virginia. A third-generation owner-president of Charlottesville Oil Company.

He was the owner-president of Charlottesville Oil Company. He was the owner president of Charlottesville Realty Corporation. He operated the Skyline, Swannanoa Incorporated business on Afton, that huge hotel that's now an afterthought. He got a master's in business from the University of Richmond. One thing Phil Delaney did not do when he was alive running his real estate portfolio was keep his properties in good condition. Another thing he did not do was pay the taxes on his real estate holdings. When some of these properties sell, and currently one of his properties is under contract, the Todsbury Pizzeria of Ivy.

It's under contract right now. I'm hearing through extremely reliable sources that if the deal closes, and it's contingent on a couple of things, which I will outline here in a matter of moments, but if the deal closes, the Todsbury will be reimagined as the Batesville Market and the Hunt Country Store. If the Hunt Country Store and the Batesville

Market rendezvoused and had a baby, that's what would come to the Todsbury of Ivy location. Before we can get to that point, you have to get through a number of contingencies, including the obvious concern with the construction, the quality of the building. The roof is leaking. The septic tank has to be replaced and is seriously damaged. Its proximity to the river behind it is a problem. It's got proximity to electrical infrastructure.

There's a sign behind the Tott's Berry of the things you literally cannot do within this proximity to the river behind it. These contingencies have to be cleared before the deal materializes. But what the Tott's Berry deal shows you is that since Phil Delaney has passed, and now that his estate, his widow, are running the show, they are more inclined to move property. Phil Delaney never wanted to move anything. He was a holder, never a seller. Look at the Mooses by the Creek address on the GIS.

Charlottesville Realty Corporation owns 1706, 1707, 1708 Monticello Road, 1712 Monticello Road, 0 Monticello Road, 0 Monticello Road. They have millions of dollars in real estate holdings right around Moose's. I would ask you this question. Are you inclined to ink or get into a long-term business arrangement when the uncertainty surrounding the landlord and the real estate your business is operating within is ambiguous at best. I would not. And neither would Amy or Moose. Compound that uncertainty with a labor market that is challenged, extremely challenged, and a customer base that is headwinds ridden. I go to Moose's during the weekends. You go to Moose's probably during the weekends.

Who's going to Moose's on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday? How much has the price of eggs or bacon or sausage or biscuits, any cost of goods, how much have they increased over the last handful of years? And have those increased in cost of goods been reflected with price point increases on the menu? Can you raise your prices enough to help offset the cost of goods before you get to a point that you just alienate and piss off your customers? There's only so much that people are going to pay for two eggs over easy,

two slices of bacon, a biscuit, and some hot coffee. Eventually, if it gets to the point that it's too expensive, the customer is just going to say, I'm going to do this myself at home. Headwinds. A lot of headwinds here. You have a Delaney estate that owns all the property, not just the property the business is on, but all of it around it. You have a widow that's looking to move the property.

You've got a labor pool that's meager. You've got a customer base that's penny-pinching. And you've got a business, an operating business that's exhausting, that requires weekend and holiday work. Still, we champion Moose and Amy for what they've done for the community, whether it's caring for creatures, Mason's Toy Box, raising funds for the police department, the fire department, rescue squads, giving philanthropically to the community,

creating a diner that is fair with its prices and welcoming to anyone and everyone, no matter race, no matter any kind of orientation. It is a place that we should champion. And it's a perfect segue into our next topic if you put it on screen. Which institutional business loss is the most impactful for the community?

Just off the top of my head, viewers and listeners, help me add to this list. You have Blue Moon Diners closed, Mel's Cafe closed, Lumpkins and Scottsville closed, Moose's by the Creek closed. You're talking four of the godfathers here. If you tally the Lumpkin's tenure, time in business, with the Moose's time in business, with the Blue Moon time of business, with the Mel's Cafe time in business, those four businesses will probably give you an aggregate tenure of, what, 100 plus years?

I mean, I want you to think about that. Those four businesses, you combine the time that they have been in operation, and are you looking at a total of 100 plus years or more? Probably close. You want to put a prop bet on that? No. Let's put a prop bet. I'll take the over on 100 years you take the under for another bottle

I'll let you double up what you owe the studio bar over there a $75 bottle of scotch let me double up you want to do it you want to clear the debt you want to no that's ok

are you sure yeah I'm sure. It's a way to clear the $75 scotch debt on the Lewis Mountain neighborhood. Or a double. It's your call. It's a prop bet. We could look that up pretty easily. I'd say those four combine 100 plus years.

I'll put the over under 100 and I'll take the over on 100. 100's a push. Anything under 100, you win 100 and I'll take the over on 100. 100's a push. Anything under 100, you win. You want to take the bet? No. Okay. When you lose businesses like this, what do you lose, Judah? You lose charm. You lose options. And I think you lose some of the character of an area. You lose the type of magic that keeps Charlottesville from becoming... What? Fredericksburg, Northern Virginia, right? Parts of Route 29.

Parts of Route 29. You look at parts of Route 29, you're like, you literally can put yourself in parts of Route 29 where someone can just pick you up. Let's say someone kidnaps you. They kidnap you, they blindfold you, and they drop you off like they did to us at Phi Kappa Psi with pledging. And you have to look around and you have to figure out where you're at to find your way home. There's parts of 29 where if you were dropped there, you wouldn't be able to tell where you were at. But if you're picked up, if you're kidnapped, blindfolded, thrown in a trunk, and then dropped off in the middle of the night next to a big-ass rooster,

next to a spaceship-looking building that has odors of fried fish, next to a diner with a menu outside that says hogwall or hash, or next to a restaurant with moose antlers in the window, damn it, you would know exactly where you were at once that blindfold was removed from your eyes. That wouldn't be the case when you were standing in front of the Chili's

or the Applebee's or the TGI Fridays, the Texas Roadhouse or the Outback. And when you lose businesses that have an aggregate 100 plus years of tenure across four of them, you lose the charm and the appeal that makes Charlottesville what Charlottesville is today. Look at what happened to the shopping center across from Barracks Road. At one time, there was the tavern where tourists, local tourists, students, and townspeople alike met. And right behind that was our good friend Ted Anderson's store where I'm doing some business with Ted Anderson right now.

We've built him a fantastic e-commerce website. Fantastic website to custom order. Ted Anderson, I love you. Susan Anderson, I love you. Make sure Ted Anderson hears this. Love you, Ted Anderson. Effing love you. First time I ever met Ted Anderson, I was the rush chair at FISAI. Pulled up in my buddy's beat up Ford Explorer. We popped the hatch. I went in with the fraternity credit card definitely had a fake New Jersey ID

and we got a bunch of kegs of natural light we loaded them in the back of the beat up Ford Explorer and before I left I picked up some soup to go and that's when I fell in love with Anderson Seafood and Catering. 20 years old. Remember what the Barracks Road looked like? The shopping center across from Barracks? You had the tavern. You had Anderson Seafood and Catering. What is it? Meadowbrook Shopping Center was over there. What do you have in its

place? The CVS, which is an absolute cluster duck, that shopping center to get in and out. And now they're percolating what? 24 apartments right there off Barracks Road behind the CVS. You built 24 apartments behind that CVS on Barracks Road in a gully on a hill by a creek next to million plus dollar homes, that shopping center is going to be an effing nightmare. A nightmare. And you know what other shopping center is going to be a nightmare? Anyone that lives down Fifth Street Extended, your parents live down Fifth Street Extended. When that Wawa is finished, when the construction on that Wawa next to the market, that Tiger Fuel market on the entrance to Fifth Street Station in Wegmans, when that Wawa materialized, Brian Haleska just goes by. He's freshly haircutted, Brian Haleska right there.

When that Wawa is finished, no one is going to want to drive down Fifth Street ever. You think? Judah, have you seen the entrance to Wegmans at the market by Tiger Fuel and how backed up it gets?

Add a business that has 10,000 customers a day to it. I'm very curious to see what that throttled intersection with the addition of a Wawa next to a market

by Tiger Fuel, an entrance to a Fifth Street station, does to the real estate over the city line into the county. Very interested to see what happens. And that's another point that I make on this show, prioritizing all kinds of development before we start prioritizing quality of life. And I'm going to get some heat from the yes in my backyards, from the yimbies on this. We can't just ramrod 24 unit apartment buildings behind a CVS on a hill next to a gully on Barracks

Road on an intersection that's already throttled as people try to go from Emmett to Barracks to Preston. And we can't just ramrod and approve Wawa developments and their 10,000 customers a day next to a intersection like the market by Tiger Fuel, the entrance to Wegmans, where in the morning or the evening, it's miserable to drive by. Because that's going to impact the people that live there and will impact their real estate values. Questions, comments, put them in the feed. Judah, any thoughts for you? John Blair comments.

I'm going to you on LinkedIn. You are 100% correct. We are transitioning from institutions to individuals and influencers when it comes to retail and shopping. Here's an interesting question. Is there a local Seville influencer who could truly move business if they visited restaurants retail operation live? Yes. And you're looking at that person right now. We literally used to go into restaurants. This was what?

This was when my wife and I were not even engaged. Do you remember, Judah, when you, me, and my wife would go to restaurants all over the area? They would pay us a flat fee. And I would do a two or three minute live video. when you, me, and my wife would go to restaurants all over the area. They would pay us a flat fee, and I would do a two- or three-minute live video, and then we'd create a top ten list on why you would want to patronize those restaurants. I think we'd charge like 500 bucks for them. We were doing two or three of those a week,

and then positioning them in front of our followers with some kind of call-to-action message with it. The only reason we don't do that now is because we've segued and pivoted into more of a venture funding, business brokerage, real estate type of model that, frankly speaking, is more lucrative and less labor intensive. And he says, one last thing. On this side of the mountain, there are rumors circulating of a big potential sale of a Delaney property. Keep an eye open. I am hearing rumors.

He may be talking about Swannanoa right there. Are you talking Swannanoa right there, John Blair? Are you talking about the Afton Hotel there, JB? Bill McChesney says the Meadowbrook Hardware Store and Pharmacy was there. That was a great drugstore. I am hearing through the rumor mill that folks are kicking the tires on the old Charlottesville Oil property. Phil Delaney's Charlottesville Oil. That's the scuttlebutt

around the real estate circles. Follow that closely. Which one is most impactful? Vanessa Parkhill says Ted and Susan Anderson are the best. The absolute best. You should be buying your seafood at their market on Ivy Road, ladies and gentlemen. And ordering your food through their new e-commerce website, which is very nicely done. I do say so myself. Which business most impactful

for you of the four that we mentioned? Lumpkins, Mel's, Blue Moon Diner, Moose's. Question for you, Ginny Hu. She says, speaking of Lumpkins, I still want answers about that damn rooster. I added the word damn. She didn't say damn. There goes a well-manicured, well-haircotted Brian Haleska right there. Which one most significant for you? Oh, man.

I think probably Moose's. I've been there. I mean, I don't get out to Scottsville very often. I don't think I ever went to Lumpkins. But I've been to both Blue Moon and Mooses. Have you been to Mouse? What? Have you been to Mouse?

No, I never went to Mouse. But I'm definitely a weekend brunch person, and I'll miss both those places. It's hard to pick of those four. Yeah. Hard to pick of those four. Yeah. Hard to pick. The Mel's closing was significant because there's few businesses in the city of Charlottesville

that are black-owned. Especially black-owned with that kind of tenure. Yeah. That's a significant closing. The Moose's and Blue Moon Diner closings are women-owned businesses. You're talking about business closings that are significant not just because they're the water cooler of the community where tourists and townspeople

and students alike meet, but businesses that are significant in that they inspire the next generation of black-owned business owners to get in the game or women owned business owners to get in the game. Yeah. All right. Last topic of the show. Men's basketball team just took a loss to SMU at SMU. First time they lost an ACC conference opener in more than a decade.

I think it's like 15 years. We'll talk about it tomorrow at 10.15 a.m. with Jerry Ratcliffe on the Jerry and Jerry Show, the Virginia Sports Hall of Famer. I made this prediction when Tony Bennett resigned. I said that if the cards don't fall correctly, the athletic department and UVA's top two sports teams, football and basketball,

would be mired in a state of fan apathy never seen in multiple generations of time. And that prediction has proven to be correct. If Ron Sanchez doesn't turn this program around, you're looking at a football team that's lost, what, 22 of 23 games to Virginia Tech? Last one in Blacksburg in 98? So 22 of 24 to Tech?

And then a basketball program that seems to be stuck in yesteryear. Prove to me that the PAC line works without Tony Bennett. Prove to me that Bennett Ball works without Tony Bennett. Prove to me in an era of transfer portal and NIL, when there's not athletes that are in a program for two or three years before they play, that a nuanced defense and offense like Tony Bennett runs can work.

I think you need an era of athlete that is willing to redshirt or hang around for three or four years for this type of system to work and that's just not college basketball today we'll talk about that tomorrow on the jerry and jerry show 10 15 a.m right here on the i love seville network judah wickhour and jerry miller Thank you.