The I Love CVille Show With Jerry Miller! - Downtown Dewberry Hotel Skeleton For Sale; Offers Due By 1/9/25 For Dewberry Skeleton

Episode Date: December 12, 2024

The I Love CVille Show headlines: Downtown Dewberry Hotel Skeleton For Sale Offers Due By 1/9/25 For Dewberry Skeleton Is Building A New Hotel Good For Downtown CVille CVille & AlbCo Have A Vacant Apartment Glut Are Apartments Next Bubble In CVille & AlbCo? Read Viewer & Listener Comments Live On-Air The I Love CVille Show airs live Monday – Friday from 12:30 pm – 1:30 pm on The I Love CVille Network. Watch and listen to The I Love CVille Show on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn, iTunes, Apple Podcast, YouTube, Spotify, Fountain, Amazon Music, Audible, Rumble and iLoveCVille.com.

Thank you. Show and help us spread the gospel, that would mean the world to us. That's the only thing we ask of viewers and listeners, is spread the word of the I Love Seville Show. We work hard for you, and that's our only ask, ladies and gentlemen. A lot we're going to cover on today's program. The Dewberry Hotel is officially listed for sale. John Dewberry, dubbed by Bloomberg Magazine as the emperor of empty lots. John Dewberry, born in Waynesboro, a quarterback from the rambling wreck of Georgia Tech. The Georgia Tech Yellow Jackets quarterback at one time. Now a developer in Hotlanta. Live on LinkedIn now, Judah.

That's fantastic. Thank you. Now a developer in Hotlanta. He wants out of Charlottesville, and his skeleton is for sale. We will talk about the Dewberry Hotel in today's program. Offers for the Dewberry Hotel are due by January 9th, 2025. A call for offers, a deadline of January 9th, 2025. I want to talk about that on today's show.

On today's show, I want to talk about Jax's Bar and Grill in Crozet. That's for sale. You don't have the banner behind you either there, J-Dubs. So you've got to slide that. I want to talk on today's show a topic that we discussed on Tuesday, the glut of apartments that are currently in the rental and tenant ecosystem in Charlottesville and Albemarle County and whether folks actually realize, you know, elected officials understand that we have such a glut of apartments. I want to talk about the interview yesterday with Joe Plantania and Chief Mike Katchus, the Commonwealth's attorney, Joe Plantania, and Police Chief Mike Katchus. I thought that

interview went extremely well. If you have yet to watch that interview, give it a listen and a watch. It was excellent. I did ask Commonwealth's Attorney Joe Plantania if he was going to run for re-election. He said on yesterday's show that he loves his job, is passionate about the work he does, and has an announcement coming in January. If we're reading the tea leaves, Joe Plantania is going to run for a third term as Commonwealth's Attorney of Seville. And, you know, I think Charlottesville, with Joe Plantania as essentially the top cop, Chief Kachis, the top cop in uniform, Joe Plantania, the top cop in a business suit,

is in a good place with Plantania at the helm. A lot I want to cover on the program. It's a busy week for news here on the I Love Seville show. The first topic, Jude, if you want to put that as a lower third on screen, the top three headlines as lower thirds on the Dewberry Hotel, that would be great. At this point, just scratch the group if you can't get it up because we're about 10 minutes into the show. The first headline with the Dewberry, if you want that as a lower third, the emperor of empty lots, John Dewberry,

has put his skeleton up for sale. And there are people, according to this article in the newspaper today, kicking the tires for this skeleton. And the expectation is the Dewberry is going to remain a hotel. A lot of folks were surprised, and I was surprised when I read that the skeleton is still completely usable, feasible, and has value, and the skeleton, the steel structure, does not have to be torn down.

What does have to be torn down, all the electrical work, all the HVAC work, all that has to be torn out and replaced. But the steel structure itself is salvageable, and as the folks that are looking to sell Dewberry's position on the downtown mall, they said it gives whoever buys this position, the dirt and the steel structure, a big head start on development, on the cost of development. So I'm going to ask you this question. This steel structure has seen many different phases or plans for its use. John Dewberry said hotel at first, boutique hotel. He said luxury apartments at one time. Michael Payne, when he was running for his first term for Charlottesville City Council,

was trying to politic and campaign in some way, strong-arm the city into affordable housing at the site of the Dewberry Hotel. Michael Payne, in a lot of ways, was the driving force of killing a deal that fell apart in the bottom of the ninth inning, a deal that had the city of Charlottesville and then city councilor and attorney, then mayor Mike Signer, negotiate a parking arrangement, 75 parking spaces in the Water Street parking garage, and some tax breaks on the development of this hotel. And when Michael Payne was campaigning for his first term on city council, this was right in the middle of racial unrest, civil unrest in downtown Charlottesville that climaxed with August 11th and August 12th,

the death of Heather Heyer and Nazis and armed racists in downtown Charlottesville. The climate, the mood in Charlottesville was fragile and Charlottesville was searching for its identity. Charlottesville was searching for its soul and its brand in a lot of ways as armed Nazis. And the Klu Klux Klan came to Charlottesville. So during this time of civil fragility, of humane fragility, of unrest, Michael Payne motivated to become an elected official, politicked and campaigned counsel, and politicked and platformed council and politic and platform for himself that we should not be offering tax breaks to wealthy white out-of-market developers. And a deal that Mike Signer, the mayor and a city councilor, had put in play where Dewberry was going to get 75 parking spaces for his hotel in the Water Street Garage,

it fell apart not just in the bottom of the ninth inning, but I'm talking the bottom of the ninth inning with two outs and the batter who's at the plate facing an 0-2 count. I mean, it was in the absolute final stage. And that deal falling apart, Pay pain gets a lot of this. I know there were three counselors who voted against this deal. Was it Kristen Zakos, Bob Fenwick, and Dr. Wes Bellamy, with Bellamy and Fenwick actually changing their vote. Initially, they were supportive of the 75 parking space arrangement and the tax breaks for Dewberry. Then they changed their vote after hearing what Michael Payne had to say,

after having a feel for the civil unrest that was happening in our community. And as a result of that bottom of the ninth deal crumbling moment, we've had a hideous structure on the downtown mall. You're talking 16 years of hideousness where my parents, they come every time to visit us in Charlottesville. They're like, how is this still here? It is so ugly. Well, we may be turning a chapter, viewers and listeners, on the emperor of empty lots. As he's finally said, I want out of Charlottesville in my position on the downtown mall. A couple of things stood out to me or stand out to me when it comes to this story. First, the assessment on this property, city records, 8.9 million for this structure.

8.9 million, 201 East Water Street. You can look this up on the GIS. I'm on the GIS all the time. One of the clunkiest websites you will find. In fact, the Albemarle County GIS is even worse than the Charlottesville GIS. John Dewberry acquired the property for $6,250,000 at public auction in 2012. The initial stakeholders in this project, one, Halsley Minor. He's the founder of CNET. Halsley Minor has since filed for bankruptcy,

and he had to divest his ownership stake in this Dewberry Hotel. He wanted to build the hotel there along with developer Lee Danielson. Lee Danielson, it was initially his idea of a luxury hotel in the downtown mall. He purchased Lee Danielson, the site, from Central Fidelity Bank in 2000. And Danielson was going to partner with Halsley Minor to build a special place, a luxury hotel on the mall where the mall was very different in 2000 than what it is here in 2024. Today in 2024, you have a hotel that's being planned by Jeff Levine, a Marriott brand, a Marriott brand hotel right next to the Omni. Today you have a hotel that is right across from the Lewis and Clark statue on West Main Street. It's right there

on the corner. Viewers and listeners, help me with the brand of that hotel that's on West Main Street across from the Lewis and Clark statue, right across from the bus station. Today you have a hotel, the Clark Hotel. What is that now, the Doyle Hotel? Right on West Main Street, that's a luxury boutique hotel. Today, you have the Kibbton Forum Hotel that has 198 rooms. You have hotels all over Charlottesville. Evidently, despite what us locals are seeing, so many hotels in Charlottesville, there evidently is still not enough supply to meet the demand. There's 988 hotel rooms in the Charlottesville area,

according to real estate firm CBRE, 988. To put in perspective that there is not enough supply to meet demand, in the business model, the marketing brochure to sell the Dewberry Skeleton, CBRE says whoever buys the Dewberry Skeleton on the mall can charge $600 to $800 a night during peak time. That's bananas to me. $600 to $800 a night in peak time for the Dewberry Skeleton. Shows you we don't have enough supply.

This will dovetail perfectly to the apartment conversation that I want to have, where I think we may have an oversupply of apartments. And my concern is, is this the next bubble that's going to rear its ugly head in the city? I'll table that for now. Since Lee Danielson thought of an idea of building a hotel in the downtown mall, since Lee Danielson partnered with CNET founder and tech tycoon Halsley Minor to build the structure we see on the mall right now, since Halsley Minor filed for bankruptcy and Halsley Minor had to literally sell art that was on the walls of his home

to pay the debt of what he owed some folks and some entities. That's how bad it got for Halsley Minor. Since John Dewberry purchased the Dewberry, the Halsley Minor, the landmark, whatever the hell you want to call this thing, the skeleton for what? $6 million and change, $6,250,000 at auction in 2012. Since Dewberry got pissed off with Charlottesville City Hall about a deal falling apart in the bottom of the ninth inning, a deal negotiated by Mayor attorney Mike Signer, a deal that fell

apart because of Michael Payne and because of Bellamy and Fenwick changing their vote. It ends up getting shot down three votes to saying, no, we're not going to give tax breaks and 75 parking spaces below market to this out-of-market developer. Since all that has happened, Charlottesville and downtown in particular has gotten significantly more hoteled. And you rotate those lower thirds, J-dubs, for these here. Those three lower thirds, if you could. And then I'm going to weave you in the mix to get your comments. I'm going to get the viewers and listeners in the mix as well. Currently, a hotel is in the works, a Marriott brand hotel next to the Omni Hotel. I'm going to ask this question.

And the first thing I want to emphasize is getting the skeleton and turning it into something is great for Charlottesville. It is absolutely great for Charlottesville. We need this skeleton to turn into something. We need the skeleton to turn into something. But I want you to think about the projects that are currently in the works right now in downtown Charlottesville. You've got a Marriott brand hotel

that's coming next to the Omni. You have, and that's a project led by Jeff Levine, lives in North Garden, has a house in Manhattan. The guy who did the project renovated the Blue Moon Diner and built apartments around it. He also owns the University Tire building on West Main Street. You've got the same guy, Jeff Levine, talking about buying Violent Crown, the movie theater, to build

apartments there. 13 stories, 18 stories, who knows how many stories it's going to be there. But he's talking about constructing an apartment tower there. You've got the Dewberry Skeleton that has a call to offers on the 9th of January. Whoever wants to buy it needs to get their offers in no later than January 9th, and then Dewberry's going to make a decision. I'm going to ask you this question. Can downtown Charlottesville sustain, can downtown Charlottesville, how long can downtown Charlottesville survive if at the same period of time you could have construction on the Dewberry Hotel skeleton, construction in the Artful Lodger spot where the livery stable, Artful Lodger, that shopping center, it's going to be converted into a hotel. And potentially Violet Crown getting sold to build an apartment tower. You would have potentially three major projects, certainly two projects. I think we know the Marriott Hotel is going to go where the artful lodger, livery stable, shopping center is going to go. That's a lock. Whoever buys the Dewberry skeleton,

a call to offers on the 9th of January of 2025, whoever buys that skeleton and spends millions of dollars on a skeleton is going to move quickly with building a hotel. That project, I'm going to say, is very likely to happen. Let's say at minimum, there's going to be two hotel projects on the downtown mall at exactly the same time. Two hotel projects on the downtown mall at exactly the same time, ladies and gentlemen.

And potentially a third project if Levine can get what he wants with the violent crown conversion into apartment towers. What are your thoughts on that? What are your thoughts if you're a business on the mall and two projects like that are happening at the very same time? I mean, such is life. Such is life. What are your thoughts on what that could do to downtown in the short period of time? These are questions that need to be offered, need to be asked. Does the city offer any kind of meal tax break, any kind of rent break on the alfresco dining charges for the restaurants on the mall, any kind of sales tax break for the local merchants because two potential approved projects could be going on at the very same time in downtown Charlottesville? That's a fair question. If I was, you know, as someone that's, you know, as someone that's a leader in downtown Charlottesville, I would say to council,

is there any kind of provisions or any kind of olive branch that's being extended to us as downtown property owners and downtown business owners if these two significant projects happen at the same time? It's a fair question. And a couple of other items that stood out to me that are worth reiterating, the fact that there are 988 hotel rooms, according to CBRE and the Charlottesville area, and those 988, including the 198 at Kempton, the 168 at the Boar's Head, is still not enough to meet the demand from a tourism and student industry that drives almost a billion dollars in revenue

through the Charlottesville area, Seville, and Almar County. It's such significant demand that they are pushing the Dewberry Hotel and the 98 rooms that could materialize in this skeleton. They are pushing it as an operation that could charge $600 to $800 a night during peak tourist season. F-ing bananas.

That Dewberry Skeleton, the plans also call for a couple of restaurants and a rooftop bar with unobstructed views of the Blue Ridge Mountains. The two best views in the city, I'm talking city strictly, are if you go to the top of the Graduate Hotel or the top of the old Cork Hotel, now the Doyle, and you're drinking beer or having a cocktail from the rooftop of those two spots. Those are the two best views. They're saying this view on the Dewberry

will be even better than those. A lot I want to cover on today's program. Judah Wickauer, we'll give some love to Charlottesville Sanitary Supply. 60 consecutive years in business. John Vermillion, Andrew Vermillion. Charlottesville Sanitary Supply are where you want to shop. Charlottesvillesanitarysupply.com. Judah Wickauer, studio camera.

We view in on a two-shot. You read the same story I did. What did you make of that story? I thought it was interesting. I thought it's about time we get our downtown mall back. Hopefully have something put in there. I'm with you. I'm not sure if we really need a hotel, but I don't know if anybody would be able to build anything else on there. I remember reading that it's not coded for, or at least not... Zones, the word.

Was it the zoning that's the problem? I thought it was the way that it was initially set up. And the height of the stories is not conducive to apartments. So that's why CBRE is pitching this as a hotel concept. Kevin Yancey makes a point that I think a lot of us were wondering. How is the steel and the concrete, which has been exposed to the elements without protection, still have the integrity to use?

I wonder the same thing. But the folks that are brokering this deal or trying to broker this deal have straight up said that it has integrity. The steel and the concrete have the integrity that it can be used. So you're not just buying the parcel of land, you're buying the steel structure that can be used as the foundation for your hotel built. I was floored, almost flabbergasted when I read that. Because like all of us watching the program, we all expected this to be a teardown. And whoever purchased this from John

Dewberry was just going to buy the dirt. Evidently, you can use the steel structure as a head start when finishing your project. I'm less surprised about the steel than I am about the concrete. The whole thing, right? I mean, they have to rip out the HVAC, the electricity, the electrical work, all the stuff that's been exposed. But John Blair says, I know you like odds and numbers, so here's one for you and the viewers. Over, under on the Dewberry fetching $13 million.

John Dewberry, John Blair, I love you so much. And you, John, made Joe Plantania's day yesterday with your comments to him on the show. I just want to highlight that. And I could also tell with Joe that he has tremendous respect for you, John. John, I was going to put the over under. I was going to ask, I was going to see if I can get Judah into a prop bet. Oh, Lord. Another prop bet.

Did you see we got another bottle from a happy client? Yeah. Let them know what we're doing here. Jerry is heading to our, hold on, I'll just. The hotel bar is pretty dope right now, right? Can you show the hotel bar? Or this is the studio bar. Give them the play-by-play commentary.

We've got a... Don't pull it too far. This is our... Let me see if I can zoom in. This is our bar. We have one... I think we have a couple good have a couple good drinks on there. Okay, let's go back to a two-shot over there.

We just got a happy client dropped off today in a nice gold-wrapped, with a ribbon, some Glenlivet 12-year-old single malt scotch whiskey. Aged 12 years. that ain't bad. I was going to do, John Blair, a prop bet and try to get Judah into an age scotch proposition bet, and I was going to put it at $12 million. Do you think, Judah, that this and buyers and sellers, this is a great question for Deep Throat. This is a great question for the commercial brokers

that are watching the program. This is a fantastic question, frankly, for Rob. Rob, are you watching the show today? Rob Neal, this is a great question for you. Scott Thorpe, this is a great question for you. Lonnie Murray, this is a great question for you. Lloyd Snook, Michael Pruitt, great questions for you here. James Watson, right up your alley here.

Does the hotel at closing, the skeleton, if I put the over under at 12 million, does it sell north of 12 million? South or north of 12 million? Deep throat, I'm very curious of your take. John Blair, what's your take on that? It's assessed at, what was the assessment? Was it 8.9? Yeah, it sounds right. 8.9 million? It's right. 8.9 million? It's assessed at 8.9. Assessments are always below market value.

Is it trade north of 12? Do we want to put a prop bet on that, Judah? I don't. You do not want to put it? Why would I want to put a prop bet on that with you? Why not? Because real estate is your thing and it's not my thing. And there's no way i'm stupid enough to go in on a prop bet with you you did the lewis mountain prop bet yeah i was stupid enough to do

that why would i do it again i wouldn't say you're stupid enough i mean i had no way to judge anything about that bet neither did i yeah you had a much better idea than I did. You could have negotiated the number on the listing. If I had any idea what I was talking about. Are you going to be bringing that bottle of scotch to the studio bar anytime soon? Yeah.

$12 million. Over or under on $12 million? John Dewberry has been paying about $ 65,000 deep door. I got you in the, I got you on deck here. Um, John Dewberry has been paying about 60 Rory Solzenberg put this on Twitter. The planning commissioner has been paying about $65,000 a year in taxes. Obviously that number, uh, go goes up since Dewberry purchased it. So I just want to use the rough number of 65,000. So Dewberry acquires the property at auction in 2012. So he's got, let's go, 2013, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20,

21, 22, 23, 24. Let's call it 12 years. That 12 years, let's just use the number 65,000 Stolzeberg put on Twitter. The whole 12 years he wasn't paying 65K, but let's just use it for the sake of the talk show and to keep it simple. 65,000 times 12. 663. 780K Dewberry paid, in back of the napkin, taxes to the city on this hotel. Remember, they couldn't call it blight in eminent domain, the skeleton, legally, because Dewberry was paying his taxes, and he had secured the outside of the hotel. That's a bananas number. This dude has paid, and, is relative. I mean, bananas to us, $780,000 is crumbs for some people, right? I just saw on CNBC that Elon Musk is worth $480 billion.

The most powerful man in the world is not Donald Trump. The most powerful man in the world is Elon Donald Trump. The most powerful man in the world is Elon Musk, the man who got Trump elected, who also has the most money in the world and is running three of the most, four of the most impactful companies in the world. $480 billion Elon Musk is worth. Think about it.

I mean, that's just incomprehensible, right? Now, a lot of that is tied to stock. I mean, it's just incomprehensible. Right? Now, a lot of that is tied to stock. A lot of it's Tesla stock. So you could say it's just, you know. But that's crazy. 780,000 Dewberries paid in taxes on this. He buys it for 6.2 million.

If he sells for 12, minus the taxes, he contributed a little bit to the wrap that the friends of Seville, Ludwig Kutner. Did he? Oh yeah, he contributed a little bit to that wrap over there. Yeah, a little bit he contributed to it. He had to pay a little some money to board it up, to put the fence around it. What's that going to cost like? $25,000, $30,000? Dewberry legitimately could walk with a nice pile of money here for doing Jack Doo-Doo. Jack Doo-Doo. Let's get to comments.

Viewers and listeners, let us know your thoughts. Especially some of the names that I rattled off. I would love to hear your thoughts. Deep Throat's always making the program better. Let's get Deep Throat's photo on screen. Deep Throat, will you come on the show? Come on, Deep Throat. always making the program better. Let's get Deep Throat's photo on screen. Deep Throat, will you come on the show? Come on, Deep Throat. And I got a response to that email I sent you yesterday,

Deep Throat, about a building in Richmond. I'm working on that. He says, by the way, Dewberry has a case before the Supreme Court. Oral arguments were yesterday. I haven't seen how that went. has a case before the Supreme Court. Oral arguments were yesterday. I haven't seen how that went. Dewberry faces $43 million plus interest judgment for trademark infringement.

He is trying to get that award reduced. Perhaps the arguments went poorly and he knows he's going to have to pay $43 million. I didn't think about that. That's why Deep Throat is number one in the family. Love you, Deep Throat. And he says that hotel in the corner that you were talking about by the Lewis and Clark is a Marriott Residence Inn.

Logan Wells Claylow on Facebook also says it's a Marriott that I was talking about. So that Marriott by the Lewis and Clark statue was not there when this hotel was playing on the downtown mall. It was not there. The cork was not there when this hotel was playing on the downtown mall. It was not there. The quirk was not there when this hotel was playing on the downtown mall. When this hotel was playing on the downtown mall,

Airbnbs and homestays were not a thing. They were not a thing like they are now. When this hotel was playing on the downtown mall in 2000 by Lee Danielson, there was not a marriott being built by the omni by jeff levine the big apple developer yeah there was no kimpton hotel they weren't there so it's a very competitive and saturated market but still if you build it they will come field of dreams james earl Jones, $1 billion tourism industry, $600 to $800 a night in hotel charges.

Jesus, dude, that is obscene. That is New York City prices. My wife and I took a long weekend to Tribeca. We went to Tribeca, stayed in Tribeca. No kids. God, it was so nice. The kids stayed with my in-laws. They were kind enough to watch our kids in our home.

And we were just able to go up to Manhattan to Tribeca for a Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. Had shrimp and mussels and cocktails on a boat on the water. Bar crawled. Went shopping. Just no kids. Gosh, no kids. And I think our charges for a pretty nice hotel in Tribeca were under $300

a night. And this is Manhattan. Unbelievable. More comments from Deep Throat. He says he would not characterize the Doyle as luxury. There is basically no staff, electronic check-in, and a low-end product.

Really? The Doyle's the old quirk hotel. I'd call the quirk luxury. Would you not call the quirk luxury the Doyle? I've never been inside. You've never been inside? Never had a reason to go to a hotel. There's a restaurant and bar. One of the most beautiful views. You would enjoy it. They have an art gallery there. They have shop i love hotels i love the transient nature of hotels i love the luxury of hotels uh there's nothing better than going in a hotel room getting buck ass naked and putting the bathrobe on that's provided in the hotels the nicer hotels where you get in the bathrobe and then you just sit back in your bed and kick back. This is when

you have no kids with you. In the bath, I just love it. I absolutely love it. I think I would call the Quirk and the Doyle luxury. And he says, as for valuation of the Dewberry, Deep Throat says, the comp that leaps to mine, and this is where I was going to go. Gosh, I love you. I was going to go this way. The comp that leaps to mine is what Levine valued his artful lodger site when he brought in a partner. That was around $5 million. The Dewberry has a better location, and much of its construction is done. So I would say this trades between $8 and $10 million. So Deep Throat's taking the under on our $12 million prop bet.

Judah took the over on that for a bottle of scotch. Just joking. He says, as far as hotel capacity, I think there is insufficient capacity for peak days, basketball games, graduation, etc., but very much over capacity for normal times. Occupancy year-to-date for Seville area, according to a a state report is 65% and Revpar is a pathetic 113 his guess is 8 to 10 million and he says what could hurt

the sale of this is the rushed nature of the process because Dewberry is looking down the barrel of a 50 million dollar court judgment so you know what Deep Throat and John Blair did you hear that viewers and listeners did you hear that that's the barrel of a $50 million court judgment. See, you know what? Deep throat. And John Blair, did you hear that? Viewers and listeners, did you hear that? That's the kind of insight and commentary, the kind of insight and commentary, the kind

of reporting that should have been included in the Daily Progress article. I'm not throwing shade. I actually thought the Daily Progress article was pretty darn good. Emily Hemphill wrote it. It was released today on the DP website. I thought it was pretty good. Emily Hephill wrote it. It was released today on the DP website. I thought it was pretty good. It was lengthy and robust with information. But in that article should have been the fact that Dewberry is facing a nearly $50 million judgment for trademark infringement. No doubt. Is it a fire sale because of said judgment? And in that article, which I was going to provide this for the viewers and listeners,

I was not going to provide the trademark infringement commentary. Deep Throat added tremendous value with that. I was going to provide the Levine Artful Lodger comp for the downtown mall and try to use that as a baseline for valuation. But I think that's some of the value you get from the I Love Civo show. At least I hope you guys get for the I Love Civo show that you guys appreciate. We're going beyond the headlines and trying to use some institutional knowledge and some professional experience to provide content value for you, the viewer and listener.

What are your thoughts, viewers and listeners? Like and share the show. Like and share the show. Marlene Jones, watching the show. I can share the show. Marlene Jones, watching the program. Free enterprise means investors that speculate on developments expecting high rents should lose their shirts when supply and demand results in gluts of housing units that will result in competition and lower rents. The city and country should keep approving development that will result in workforce housing that has lower rents and is near to business and transportation.

It is the workforce they should be supporting, not greedy investors, most of whom avoid paying even their minimum taxes yet expect bailouts when their speculation crashes the market. Marlene Jones, did you get her photo on screen? I don't believe we have one. We should get a photo for Marlene Jones. I appreciate her comment. She left that comment on the I Love Seville Facebook page, if you want to find it.

I would love to add her to the database. We do. We should get Marlene's photo on screen. There we go. I appreciate that comment. That comment can go in a lot of ways. She offered some commentary prior to today's show about what I think is becoming a softening market at best, a bubble potentially, the overbuilding of multifamily housing.

And I first started hearing about this bubble, as I said, on Tuesday's program a couple of months ago when I'm at the bar at the Mill Room. And I'm meeting with some bankers about getting financing for a six-unit project off of East High Street. And they said, our bank ain't financing anything like that. We're not financing multifamily anymore. And they said, see if you can find a bank. And this was 30% down, this good credit, cash reserves, in a history of being a landlord and a partner in the mix as well. That was also more experience than I was.

I've been doing this for 17 years. He's been doing this for like 25, 30 years. I'll get to the multifamily glut here in a matter of moments. I want to dot the I's and cross the T's on the Dewberry. I got a question that's very straightforward for you, Judah. If the Dewberry is sold, and I think it's going to be sold now, because you got a motivated seller, and you may have a motivated seller because of what Deep Throat just highlighted, the nearly $50 million judgment. The Dewberry is sold, and a project happens on the Dewberry taking a skeleton into a luxury hotel, 98-room hotel that could command $600 to $800 a night bananas. If that happens, and construction happens at the exact same time, the Marriott Hotel is built next to the Omni Hotel, you will have construction on that side

of the mall, on both sides of the mall. Cause and effect, collateral damage, and how does the flip book play out in that scenario? Oh, man. I mean, Charlottesville's already got a relatively minor traffic problem, but routing traffic away from the downtown mall, I don't know. I think it depends. How is Charlottesville going to respond?

Do they work out some type of way to get people to and from the mall during that time period? Or do they just let everyone fend for themselves? And what if in the meantime the Violet Crown gets sold and starts

construction on there as well? I think these are questions that have got to be asked. That's why we're asking them on the show. Business is fragile on the mall right now. F&B food and beverage is fragile. Jax's Bar and Grill is closing in Crozet. Just effing open at Jax's Bar and Grill. Moose's

is closing on December 31. I did a post before the show when Moose's by the Creek closes on December 31st of this year, Charlottesville and Alamaro County will have lost four iconic restaurants this year alone. Lumpkins, Mel's,

Blue Moon Diner, and Moose's that have a combined 122 years of serving the community. That's the type of generational community commitment that can never be replaced. 122 years amongst four iconic businesses. It's a fragile F&B market. It's fragile because it's hard to get labor. It's fragile because cost of goods are causing menu price increases, and menu price increases and expensive labor. Expensive labor is also causing menu price increases. And when the price is increased to a point, the consumer says, I can't afford that.

Especially when American credit card debt is at an all-time high, when housing costs are at an all-time high, when groceries and fuel are still extremely expensive. There's less customer base. How does the most important eight blocks in a 300,000-person region respond to two construction projects at the same time and potentially a third in the hopper. Does City Hall offer relief in any capacity?

Meals tax relief? Alfresco dining relief? The rents paid, the restaurants to the city, for their alfresco dining? Does it offer sales tax relief for retailers? Is there any kind of relief? Does the city need to go balls to the wall with a marketing campaign that drives interest

or attention in downtown Charlottesville? You see this in some construction projects. Part in our dust, part in our work, but business is still open here. Does it need something like that? In the end, it's good news. Georgia Gilmer, I also have heard the rumor,

and I don't think it's rumor anymore, I think it's fact that Moose and Amy are opening Boyd Tavern and Market in the Keswick area. I think they're going to kill it with that concept. And as I predicted on Monday's show, the local media, all they did on Monday's show was said Mooses is closing December 31st. Yeah. That's all they said. All they did was report on the post that was on the Mooses Facebook page. I said on the show, the reason they are closing is because Phil Delaney, Phil Delaney has passed. His estate owns all these addresses.

I scoured the GIS around Mooses, Mooses and all of them around it. And his estate now is very eager to move property. A great example of that is the Todsbury going under contract. I've heard a lot of people are kicking the tires on the Charlottesville oil location across from Borset. And I'll cut straight to the chase. Phil Delaney, the late real estate tycoon, he was good at acquiring real estate and trophy properties.

He was terrible at upkeeping real estate and terrible at paying the taxes on real estate. That Wawa on 29 North was a Delaney property where the Wawa is now. And when the sale of that piece of property went through, FedEx packages started arriving at the closing. A bunch of sealed, certified FedEx packages were responding. A lot of people don't know this. I'd say probably a couple hundred people probably know this in Charlottesville, and that's about it. A lot of FedEx packages started arriving to the closing. You know what those packages were for?

I do not. All the liens against the property. Why were they packaged? All the liens were coming in via FedEx to closing because they were first in line to get their money back on the taxes against the property. Good luck. No, you get them.

Are we still live on LinkedIn over there? If you confirm for me. A lot of people don't know that. A lot of these properties have so much back taxes due, and now since he's passed, the folks are chomping at the bit to get their money, the local jurisdictions.

Now, this is a perfect segue into the apartment club, J-Dubs, and we can rotate some of those lower thirds on screen. Deep Throat got me thinking on this. Multi-family housing in the city a lot of people aren't realizing is becoming is gluttonous a word? it is, that's not the word you want though what would it be then?

too plentiful? in abundance? overabundant? Overabundant? Just too much of it? Yeah. Now, there's a population of the community

that says, good, build it. The more the merrier. It'll drop rents. The rents. The rents are too high. Marlene left a comment about that. Marlene, I respect your opinion.

I respect your opinion, Marlene Jones. I'm going to send you a friend request, Marlene Jones. Very much respect the comments that you've been leaving. I just sent you a friend request. She said, good, build it. Build it. We need workforce housing, she said. We need housing close to the epicenter of employment, she said. We need these damn rents. She didn't say damn. I said damn. I got to stop. I got a

potty mouth. It is what it is. We need these rents to go down. I get that. Livable Charlottesville, the Gilligan gang, they're pushing that. Get rents to come down. More housing. Get rents to come down. More housing, get rents to come down. Workforce housing, get rents to come down. You build too much multifamily. Here's the risk that you have. A, obviously it's going to sit vacant. And if it sits vacant, it's going to spook builders, developers. It'll spook them because they can't rent. If it sits vacant, you're going to have banks that refuse to lend on future projects. You're going to have projects potentially crumble.

How much longer can the Elysian, Elysian, Elysian, and Stonefield, Elysian, how much longer can it survive when more than half of its units are vacant and not collecting rent? I mean, depends how much profit they're getting. How much longer, right?

Yeah. You keep building multifamily. Say you build multifamily and say you're able to rent it. Someone's going to come in at a price that's lower and they're going to capture some of the demand. What's the additional multifamily that's built going to do to infrastructure, to schools and roads and transportation, the environment and quality of life? Kate Acuff is on the Albemarle County School Board and she recently made a comment on the Albemarle County School Board. And she recently made a comment on the Albemarle County School Board. She said something along the lines of,

we're building more? Good God. Our schools are already overcrowded and our kids are learning in trailers. Where did I read that? I think I read that in the Crozet, This Week in Crozet newsletter. Is that what I read? Yeah. I try to read everything,

guys, to prepare for this show. I have an insatiable appetite for reading local and finance and real estate content. Let me see if I can find it. And also in that newsletter, interestingly, the Crozeli, the sandwich shop in Piedmont Place, it's expanding next door, and they got a tiny arcade in there. I think the Crozet newsletter, they do a good job with that one. Where was that? I read it somewhere. Oh, yeah, here it is. It was in that Crozet newsletter. She said this, Kate Acuff, Elmore County School Board Vice Chair. Every time I drive down the road, I see another development, and I cringe. Not because I'm not pleased that our community is growing, but just that I know the impact on our schools. You have an elected official, an elected school board member saying in a meeting, on the record, in a meeting, on the record,

every time I drive down the road, I see another development and I cringe. Not because I'm not pleased that our community is growing, but just that I know the impact on our schools. What is she saying there? She's saying we're expanding our housing, but not our infrastructure and all the services that go along with it.

She's saying the schools are overcrowded. Yeah. Very short. It's the same. The schools are overcrowded. That's what she's saying. This is an elected official. In this same Crozet newsletter,

and they do a hell of a job. What's this called, the Crozet newsletter? It's called This Week in Crozet United. Crozet United. Hell of a job, whoever's putting this together. I'm pretty sure it's Eric that's putting it together from Striker Media. In this, I'm going to read a few more paragraphs

from this newsletter that I found fascinating. You ready for this? They highlight a project, the Old Dominion Development Project. The plans for the new Old Dominion neighborhood have been updated and are shown in a graphic that they put in the newsletter. The 110 home neighborhood, which surrounds the current veterinary clinic on Route 240, will be a prominent visual change to the Crozet entrance corridor. A small portion of a bike lane will be added and a very dense block of townhomes will hug the northern Mountain View side of the street. Then they say this, schools don't have the funding to handle population growth. At their joint meeting with county supervisors last week, the Albemarle County School Board requested half a billion dollars, 560 million to be exact, for school construction to keep up with population growth. The school division currently projects that only 11,310 more homes will be built across the county over the next decade, which will yield up to 4,350 more students.

Unfortunately, the school's growth projection is still an order of magnitude too low because it does not fully account for the supervisor's recent residential development spree. As of today, there are over 10,000 new homes that have been approved, but haven't been built yet. The county is now evaluating proposals for 4,000 more. These figures still ignore all of the additional housing developments that have yet to be proposed and built over the coming decade. Finally, two more paragraphs from the newsletter. Unless the county's planning commission and board start to take seriously the secondary effects of the development they have already approved, it's reasonable to expect that our schools will become even more underfunded and overcrowded. Our water supply

will face greater strain and our transportation infrastructure will remain unsafe and increasingly compromised. Perhaps the 2025 local election cycle, which unofficially kicks off next month, will be the wake-up call that supervisors need to take a hard look at the county's runaway growth. Voters deserve clear answers on how they plan to address these mounting challenges, specifically overcrowded schools, overtaxed water resources. The unsafe and congested nature of our roads. The concerns about water. The concerns about public transportation and environmental impact. Because of this build, build, build mantra.

And I get labeled a NIMBY, a not in my backyard. And that's some BS. I am not a NIMBY. I am, let's honor the current zoning that's in play where people are buying houses, their most important investment, and not expect after they purchase their house to have the zoning on their street

or their neighborhood change and allow more debt. People buy houses expecting what they buy and the street and the neighborhood they buy in to be the same when they buy it. And to change the zoning on a street or a neighborhood

is radically changing the rules of the game. That's like saying in basketball, it's not the team that scores the most points wins. It's the team who scores the less points, least amount of points wins. Changing the game, that's wrong. I am also of the mindset that you better prioritize our schools, our roads, our quality of life before approving development. If not, then what's the point of living here? You're going to get to a point where kids, a generation of kids, is going to have an inferior education

because of the overcrowding nature of what's happening in Charlottesville and Alamaro County. And then you're going to stack those kids up against the same kids that are going to private schools in Charlottesville and Alamaro County. And then you're going to stack those kids up against the same kids that are going to private schools in Charlottesville and Alamaro County where that's not happening. Where the student-teacher ratio is significantly different in the private schools in Charlottesville and Alamaro County than the public schools. Significantly different.

I'm talking a delta that is 16 to 1 in a private school, 25, 30 to 1 in a public school. Those are some of my concerns, Marlene. Kevin Higgins says, Miss Acuff, this has been an issue for years. Kevin Higgins also says, Albemarle County is not equipped for fire, police, and rescue. Anyone who talks to the fire, police, and rescue will confirm that. Anyone who talks to the fire, police, and rescue will confirm that.

Anyone who talks to the fire, police, and rescue will confirm that. Marlene's got some more comments. Marlene, I respect your opinion. I appreciate this back and forth that we're doing respectfully. She says, why don't developers build condos? I really don't understand. A lot of aging single homeowners would like more options in the city,

really would like to understand the economics of not developing condos and not apartments. I'll ask, I'll pose that question on our Real Talk show. Interestingly, tomorrow, Ned Galloway and Neil Williamson are in the studio at 10.15 a.m. So this is a great topic matter for Supervisor Ned Galloway

and for Neil Williamson, the president of the Free Enterprise Forum, tomorrow at 10.15 a.m. on the Isle Love Siebel Network. There's three spots up for grabs on the Board of Supervisors. That Galloway spot, Diantha McKeel spot, and Jim Andrews spot. Isn't the scuttlebutt that Jim Andrews is not going to run for re-election, is that the scuttlebutt, ladies and gentlemen? That's the scuttlebutt I'm hearing.

Strictly scuttlebutt. That he's not running for re-election? Is that the scuttlebutt, ladies and gentlemen? That's the scuttlebutt I'm hearing. Strictly scuttlebutt. That he's not running for re-election. Galloway and McKeel running, I would imagine, absolutely. They live and breathe this stuff. Two spots on council. Pinkston and Wade. Running as a ticket. Would you make a B. Pinks

and our man Wade running as a ticket? Running as a ticket. Would you make a B-Pinks and our man Wade running as a ticket, running as a team? How are they running as a team? Running as a ticket. They're announced at the same time and said, we're doing this as a ticket, as a team. What'd you make of that? They're campaigning

together. That's what that means. Maybe they're campaigning together. That's what that means. Yeah. Maybe they're hedging against the uncertainty of who might be throwing their hat in the ring. I don't know. Albert Graves on Twitter. Will the construction workers that are building the two or three hotels help provide revenue for the restaurants on the downtown mall?

It's a great question. Scott Stadium and John Paul Jones visitors need plenty of rooms, just not 24-7, 365. He also says, Albert Graves, I love Albert Graves. Not surprising with the closure of Jax's. He would just close on random nights, including Friday and Saturday. Also, go read the reviews. Not so good. And the way the owner berated his employees in front of nights, including Friday and Saturday. Also, go read the reviews. Not so good.

And the way the owner berated his employees in front of customers, not surprising at all. And he said, Crozet is running out of water. Wow. I've been in this community for 24 years. 24 years. 24 years. I remember when Crozet was pastures and cow fields. Lifted

Ford F-150, 250, and 350s. Flannel and camo. Bud heavy and bush light, Garth Brooks and George Strait, Bonfires and Fried Chicken at Brownsville Market. is X-Fives and Mercedes-Benz. It's Taylor Swift. And I'm trying to come up with a rich person's name.

Taylor Swift and Dua Lipa. It's wine coolers and Chardonnay. It's pinkies up champagne charcuterie and hors d'oeuvres.

It's Robback shirts and fedoras. 24 years, it's completely changed. From a blue-collar country community of good old boys and gals to million-dollar homes and white-collar professionals. And, hey, it's a designated growth area. It's a designated growth area. So I chose to move there.

This was coming down the pipe. I don't think anyone saw it like this. Kevin Higgins says, Albert Graves is right. We are one drought away from disaster. Albert Graves is a smart man. Marlene Jones says, Charlottesville schools has a lot of capacity with existing buildings and plans for Walker as a pre-K. City will start getting best teachers

due to union options and potential to city support for teachers. Any closing thoughts for you, Judah Wicower? It's going to be an interesting 2025. Content creator's dream. The city that never sleeps. Judah, this is where you say it sleeps, Jerry. Did we put a prop bet on that, Dewberry? Content Creator's Dream. The City That Never Sleeps. Judah, this is where you say it sleeps, Jerry. Did we put a prop bet on that, Dewberry?

January 9th, it's going to sell. No, the call for offers by the 9th of January. All right, that's the show. The downtown spotlight is today at 2.30. Greer Achenbach of Friends of Seville has Major Mark Van Meter of the Salvation Army. So the head of the Salvation Army is in studio today at 2.30 to talk about the conversion of a thrift store on Cherry Avenue

to a shelter for the houseless, the homeless. 2.30 today, Greer does a hell of a job on her show. Make sure you catch this show. Thank you kindly for watching us, guys. So long, everybody. Thank you.