The I Love CVille Show With Jerry Miller! - Downtown's Violet Crown Movie Theater Closing; Could 18-Story, 225 Apartments Replace Theater?

Episode Date: November 13, 2024

The I Love CVille Show headlines: Downtown’s Violet Crown Movie Theater Closing Could 18-Story, 225 Apartments Replace Theater? New York City’s Jeff Levien Is The Developer Levien Built Blue Moon Building & Apartments Levien Wants 184-FT Building (CVille’s Tallest) Levien Asking City For Tax & Zoning Breaks Will John Dewberry Ask For Same Tax Breaks? How Will Years Of Construction Impact The Mall? How Will City Council Respond? Michael Payne? The I Love CVille Show airs live Monday – Friday from 12:30 pm – 1:30 pm on The I Love CVille Network. Watch and listen to The I Love CVille Show on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn, iTunes, Apple Podcast, YouTube, Spotify, Fountain, Amazon Music, Audible, Rumble and iLoveCVille.com.

Thank you. that wants to take the movie theater and convert it into what will be Charlottesville, Virginia's tallest building. 225 apartments, 18 stories. Jeffrey Levine wants to build in place of shuttered Violent Crown movie theater. This is the New York City developer who created the building where Blue Moon Diner currently exists, right next to University Tire on West Main Street. We're going to talk this topic from every single angle, including is this best for Charlottesville? Is this best for economics in Charlottesville? Is this best for the downtown mall? How will two years plus of construction on a potential 18-story, 225-apartment building impact downtown Charlottesville,

in particular the side of the mall where most of the commerce happens. Ladies and gentlemen, how will John Dewberry respond to a New York City developer asking local government for tax abatements and zoning breaks? Will John Dewberry, the extorting emperor of empty lots, the guy who played football for the rambling wreck, the Georgia Tech Yellow Jackets, grew up in Waynesboro, now lives in Hotlanta, Georgia. Will he say, I want the same tax breaks, I want the same zoning breaks for my skeleton on the downtown mall? Have we set or will we set a precedent for future development? Does the zoning code need to be amended in massage when it's not even 11 months old? So many storylines to cover as Violent Crown movie theater goes the way of,

as Judah Wittkower said, the dodo bird, the way of the yellow pages, the way of Morse code, the way of the carrier pigeon, the way of Tom from MySpace, the way of watching the 6 p.m. and 11 p.m. news on a couch while staring at a box. So much to cover on the I Love Ceevil show. Judah Wickhauer, it is time to make the donuts. We'll give some love to Charlottesville Sanitary Supply. If you could, please, sir. 60 consecutive years in business, Charlottesville Sanitary Supply on East High Street, a three-generation family business, now with its

own e-commerce website, which you can find online at Charlottesville Sanitary Supply. John Vermillion and Andrew Vermillion doing special things at Charlottesville Sanitary Supply. I also had a fantastic outing over the weekend at River Hawkins and Johnny Arnalis' restaurant, Mejicale, on West Main Street. Mejicale, Judah Wickauer, has got cocktails.

It's a live music venue. It's got fresh food. It's got a playground for kids. Mexicali is absolutely a restaurant you must try on West Main Street. Where do we begin, Judah? We'll go on a studio camera and then a two-shot. I'm going to set the stage,

and then I'm going to ask you, the viewer and listener, for your comments. You, John Blair, your comments. You, Logan Wells-Claylow, your comments. You, Deep Throat, your comments. You, Rob Neal for your comments. You, John Blair, your comments. You, Logan Wells-Claylow, your comments. You, Deep Throat, your comments. You, Rob Neal, your comments. I want Kevin Yancey and Kevin Higgins. I want Heather Lamond Walker, Lloyd Snook, Jesse Rutherford, counsel that watches the program to share their perspective. And remember, on December 11th, Joe Plantania, Commonwealth's attorney, and Mike Kochess, police chief, will be live in studio on the I Love Seville show. Here's the stage as you rotate the lower thirds on screen.

Violent Crown Movie Theater. Hasta luego. Sayonara. Peace out. The pandemic, collateral damage, movies, people don't go to them anymore. My wife and I have been to Violent Crown and have been the only people in the movie theater. Literally the only people in the movie theater. On a 7 o'clock or 7.15 showing.

The owner of Violent Crown, an out-of-market owner, they said business is struggling. We need to shut this down. We're exploring options for the only asset we have left. And the assets that we have are not big screens and popcorn and juju beans and Coca-Cola and oversized cups. Instead, the assets we have is the dirt under our movie theater. The building, worthless, will get razed and knocked down. But the dirt, our movie theater the building worthless will get raised and knocked down but the dirt oh wow the dirt has value this particular site this particular plot this particular patch of dirt has the fancy of jeffrey jeff levine a new York City developer, the man who reimagined the apartment building and the home to Blue Moon Diner, who coincidentally is closing right around Thanksgiving of this year.

The New York City developer, Jeff Levine, rebuilt that building into an apartment tower and a new home for Blue Moon Diner. This was also the New York City developer who wanted to put apartments on the location of the Artful Lodger and the dive bar delivery stable. This was the New York City developer who told the Daily Progress, you know what? I wanted to do apartments, and I spent tens of thousands of dollars, maybe hundreds of thousands of dollars, planning the potential for apartments at the site of the Artful Lodger, planning the potential for apartments on the site of the livery stable, because Charlottesville is screaming at once more density, and then he throws

shade at the zoning code. He says this new zoning ordinance, it doesn't work. The affordability requirements, the inclusionary zoning requirements are prohibitive, prohibitive, and it's keeping me from doing apartments on the side of the Artful Lodger and the Livery Stable. As a result, I'm throwing away the plans, all the sunk costs, all the skin in the game, all the money I put into it until this point, and I'm going to partner with a Glenn Allen firm, and I'm going to bring a hotel in the shadows of the Omni Hotel. A Marriott brand instead. And I'm going to say, I know you want housing.

But it's going to be $500 a night room hotel instead of the housing that you guys want. Because the zoning that you push through, the zoning that you want it to be a reality, is flawed. Perhaps fatally flawed. And now he's repositioned his target in his scope, in his bullseye is another piece of dirt. Literally across the mall

from the livery stable and the artful lodger. And I have some questions. The first question is this, Judah. Are you ready for this? Did this New York City developer, did he stop pursuing

or halt the pursuit of apartments on the site of the livery stable and artful lodger because it truly did not make financial sense? Or did he stop the pursuit of housing on the location of the artful lodger and the livery stable and those other shops because he had another deal in the hopper. Did it make more sense for him to take the building he owned, that Artful Lodger shopping center, and convert it into $500 a night hotel rooms, a version of a Marriott,

a Marriott brand over there, because he had this other deal in the percolator with violent crown. Are you saying violent? Does it matter? It's dead. It's a thing of the past. It's the yellow pages. It's Tom from MySpace. Was he genuine in his commentary to the media that the new zoning ordinance kept him from building apartments in the Artful Lodging Shopping Center? Or did he make the choice because he had this other deal working? I'm curious of that. I have other questions for you, the viewer and listener, and then we'll take your comments live on air. What he wants to build would be the tallest building in the city of Charlottesville. If you go to iloveceville.com forward slash tallest buildings in Charlottesville, I'll give you the URL again, iloveceville.com forward slash tallest buildings in Charlottesville. I'll give you the URL again, iloveceville.com forward slash tallest buildings in Charlottesville. You'll see a list of six buildings we put together

a handful of years ago. You need to integrate Jeffrey Woodruff's code building into this list later today if you can, please. Jeffrey Woodruff's code building, which is right next door to Violet Crown, is a 10-story commercial office building. The tallest building right now is the Draftsman Hotel, and I direct messaged you a link with some information on the code building. The Draftsman Hotel on West Main is 10 floors and 121 feet tall. It was built in 2018. 500-quart square, formerly the Monticello Hotel, is nine floors, 109 feet tall, and it was built in 1926. The University Hospital Tower, the new one, is nine floors, 109 feet tall, and built in 2019. 1800 Jefferson Park is nine floors, 109 feet tall, and built in 1966.

The Lewis and Clark Square building with the condos that are pricey, nine floors, 109 feet tall, built in 1989. And of course, the flats built by Corrin Capshaw, nine floors, 101 feet tall, year built 2014. All of these buildings would absolutely pale in comparison to what Jeff Levine, the New York City developer, wants to build. In the place of Violet Crown, he wants to build, are you ready for this Judah Wickower as you're rotating the lower thirds on screen? A 184 foot tall building. This building would tower over everything.

It would be like the Jolly Green Giant in downtown Charlottesville. Like Andre the Giant of WWE fame. Like Yao Ming of the National Basketball Association. 184 feet tall. Remember, what we think is the tallest building in Charlottesville right now is the Draftsmen Hotel at 121 feet. So this would be 63 feet bigger than the Draftsmen Hotel, J-Dubs. Tower over everything. And this is how he's going about it i have a genuine question for the viewers and listeners is this negotiating in good faith he is saying to the city of charlottesville if you

do not give me the opportunity to build an 18 story building 18 stories and 184 feet and 224 apartments. Despite your zoning code only allowing 13 stories, I want 18. I want five additional stories. But he's building it inside. I want five additional stories from 13 to 18. I want you to give me tax breaks. I want you to change the zoning. And if you don't do this,

then I'm going to leave this deal and Violent Crown could look like the Dewberry Hotel, another skeleton on the crown jewel of the region. Is that holding the city hostage or is that negotiating in good faith? I want a genuine question. I want you, the viewer and listener, to provide that answer. Is this New York City developer negotiating in good faith or is he holding the city hostage? Follow-up question. If the city council and city hall says, New York City developer, I will allow you to go to 18 stories instead of 13. I will allow you tax breaks and tax abatements, and I'm going to massage my

zoning code for you so you can make this project a reality and have it penciled out. Will John Dewberry then say, I want the same damn tax breaks. I want the same damn zoning massaging, and I want them now just like this New York City developer did. Will Chris Henry do the same with Phase 3 Dairy Market and Stony Point? Will this set a precedent for other development in the city of Charlottesville? I have another question for the viewers and listeners. How will multiple years of construction on the downtown mall, the side of the mall that has the most commerce of any of the sides, remember the pavilion side of the mall, if there is no concert in operation, the pavilion side of the mall is a ghost town and, frankly speaking, is unsafe. The lighting is dark and sketchiness happens there all the time. The other side of the mall, the Omni Hotel side of the mall, is where it's popping until 2.30 in the morning. You got bars,

you got restaurants, you got hotels, you got music, you got action, you got liveliness. How will two years of construction and two years as a minimum impact the economic vitality and sustainability of that side of the mall when we know most merchants on the mall are as about in fragile state of operation as they have ever been? I have this question for you. How will two years plus of construction impact traffic flow on Water Street? Does that mean Water Street will become a one lane for two to three years? How will it impact the perception to come downtown for folks that are hesitant to come downtown now for either the houseless population or for parking or because of a lack of connection to the most important eight blocks in the region. I got a follow-up question for you.

Are 225 apartments best for economic vitality when finished or would a thriving movie theater be best for downtown Charlottesville when finished? The follow-up question to that is, could a movie theater ever be thriving again? Or is that just something from the past? A ghost on Christmas morning, or Christmas Eve, or on some kind of holiday? When did the ghost show up? The three ghosts? Christmas Eve. Christmas Eve. Is a thriving movie theater a ghost haunting Scrooge? Is it a thing of the past? So much to unpack, Judah. So much to unpack. I will tell you this.

If I was on the dais in Charlottesville, Virginia, I would feel like I had the proverbial, we had a developer, a heavy-hitting developer in the studio right before the show started. Did we not, Judah? Sure. A man who's built multiple buildings on the downtown mall and owns one of the buildings that is most significant and iconic on the downtown mall right now. You know who I'm

talking about. We don't need to use his name. He was sitting right next to you right in front of me, right? You know what he said to me? He said, is this guy holding city council hostage with a shotgun to their chest? Because that's what it sounds like to me. I said, if they don't offer these tax breaks, Natalie Orshan is saying in the article in the Daily Progress, the city councilor, that we're just going to have another boarded up storefront and that's the worst case scenario. And you know what? The heavy hitting developer who was sitting across from me at my desk right over there said, well, you let it happen and you let the free market play out because it's always going to play out. It will always play out. And then he made this point, which I found to be a fascinating point. If this developer wants tax abatement, years of tax breaks tied to real estate to make the project pencil out, he slams the guy sitting at my desk,

the heavy-hitting developer, a man who owns, I couldn't even put in perspective how many millions of dollars in real estate. He slams his hand on my desk and says, well, damn it, we deserve a vote if we're going to give people that kind of tax breaks. We deserve the vote to determine if someone's going to get

hundreds of thousands of dollars of tax breaks. Don't we, Jerry? And you tell your audience that. Good Lord, ladies and gentlemen, it's time to make the donuts on the I Love Seville show. Judah Wickauer, I'll weave you into the discussion. Then we're going to Deep Throat. I want to get John Blair in the mix.

I want to get you, the viewer and listener, in the mix. What do you make of this? Ginny Hu, you're coming up as well. Warrior AG, Albert Graves, welcome to the mix. I'm going to get you, the viewer and listener in the mix. What do you make of this? Jenny Hu, you're coming up as well. Warrior AG, Albert Graves, welcome to the program. TV stations watching us, newspaper watching us. I just, the word on the street is the TV station down the street has got a major sales staff shakeup. So much is going on in this community. Holy get out.

Judah Wickauer, jump in the mix. The show is yours. And remember, 2025, next year, two spots on city council come up for election. Brian Pinkston and Juan Diego Wade spot come up for election. Anyone who's running for city council next year, when this is going to be a topic in the election news cycle, should this hey what's your take on Violet Crown and what a New York City developer wants to do with this site I see the wheels turning Judah Wickower your perspective and then the viewers and listeners well the big difference between this and the uh and the landmark is that Levine doesn't own the property yet. He wants to do this, but obviously.

Levine's deal is caveated. It's contingent. That's a better word. Levine's deal. I thought you said caveated up the wazoo. Levine's deal is contingent on the city of Charlottesville offering approval on what he wants exactly for this project. If Levine doesn't get exactly what he wants from the city of Charlottesville,

he says, fine, I'm not going to do this project. Let Violent Crown Movie Theater turn into a place where the houseless can defecate and urine upon. Just like the Dewberry Hotel. Let it become a rat epicenter, an epicenter of rodents to run around, just like the Dewberry Hotel. That's what he's saying. That is what he is saying. Not in those words, but that's what he is saying right there. You know that, right? And that's the difference between an in-market developer and a New York City. New York City, get a rope, and a New York City developer.

No ties to the community personally about money. An in-market developer. That's why I'm such a champion of Chris Henry. He's got ties to this market and cares about the market. Do you think New York City's Jeff Levine would go to a church in the 10th and Page neighborhood and take verbal arrows to the chest

from the Zianna Bryant group? Jeff Levine wouldn't do that. Chris Henry did. That speaks to Henry's character. Levine on the other side is playing the game in the press. I don't own this. If you want me to own it,

you're going to give me what I want. Tax breaks. Zoning breaks. 18 stories instead of 13 stories. 184 foot tall building, and you're going to give it to me now, or I'm saying peace, and then violent crown's going to be shuttered,

and then violent crown's going to be turned into a paradise for pee-pee and poo-poo. It's an elegant way of putting things additional thoughts are you asking me if I have additional thoughts? I thought you had additional thoughts to expound upon I mean, he's not really asking for it to go taller. Right? According to the new zoning ordinance,

which was put into existence on January of this year, he can go 184 feet tall. And that's how high he wants to go. He wants max height. He just wants five additional stories. Yeah. 18 instead of 13. How much would that cut? I mean, uh, why does he want 18 stories instead of 13 stories? Because he gets a lot more units out of it. Exactly. One thing to also highlight 10% of these 225 apartments, 10%, what is that, 22.5?

Call it 23 units would be tied to 60% area median income. Isn't that for 99 years? It's tied to area median income 60% for 99 years. He wants the five extra floors so he gets extra apartments to rent. I'm curious, how do they hold people to that? Say he builds this thing and then sells it. How do they force the person that buys it to keep some of the units affordable? I don't know the exact language for that. That's a great question for John Blair, Deep Throat, or Neil Williamson, but they would absolutely be able to enforce that.

They would absolutely be able to enforce it. They would absolutely be able to enforce it. There would be some kind of, is the exact language, Deep Throat or John Blair, some sort of deed restriction associated with it? That would not be something to worry about. That would be enforceable. Let's get to the comments here. Derek Bond watching the program.

Fantastic restaurateur behind the melting pot and behind Moe's original barbecue on Ivy Road. Kevin Yancey in Waynesboro. Jason Noble says the Alamo at Fifth Street Station is superior anyway. Sondra McDaniel says my husband and I have monthly subscriptions for Regal and Stonefield. We love going to the movies. I just happen to like the Stonefield

area and what it offers along with the movie theater. Kevin Yancey highlights the parking with Alamo and Stonefield and the fact that Violent Crown does not have it. George Gilmer, I'm not sure why you cannot get it on your phone. Other folks are watching on their phone. I'm sorry you're not getting on your phone, but we are currently streaming it on our phone. Maybe a clear of your browser history. Sondra McDaniel says what is happening with this New York City developer and City Hall is called blackmail. Jason Noble says we need another movie theater like we need another

Starbucks. Neil Williamson on my comment section shares a link to the free enterprise forum. And that link is to a fantastic piece of content saying Charlottesville zoning wrong number, highlighting the concerns he has for zoning. Kevin Yancey says, well, dealing with local rats would be cheaper than dealing with the big one from the Big Apple. Ooh, that's some shade right there. That wasn't me.

Jeff Levine, who said that, by the way. That was one of our viewers and listeners. Vanessa Parkhill, thank you for watching the program. I believe every media outlet is watching us right now. Kevin Higgins watching the program. He says, this type of development will save the downtown mall.

Give Dewberry most of what he wants, and a Marriott is coming. Between the city tax and meals tax, the city tax and meals tax is over 10%. He's saying it's expensive. He says, this is a no-brainer. Collect revenue for the city tax and meals tax is over 10 he's saying it's expensive he says this is a no-brainer collect revenue for the city and drive business on the mall hopefully we will have a city council that one day give the same breaks to mall businesses based on the huge tax revenue they generate be smart say it's a go but you're responsible for building a public restroom

building on the mall somewhere and maintain it nice kevin higgins and greenwood good comments from higgins um i'm gonna go to deep throat number one in the family he's got comments on this jenny who i'm coming up to you next he says this um i guess we know now why jeff levine bailed on the apartment project at Artful Lodger. A better site came along. Still, he is asking for handouts. Feels to me about as good a sport for dense, high-rise housing as you can find in Charlottesville. 18 stories, okay.

Probably a little too high. But certainly going up to match the code building would be reasonable. The code building is right next door. Beautiful property built by Jeffrey Woodruff. Those are my words. Now back to Deep Throat's words. The bigger issue is this. The downtown mall is losing violent crown. That's another attraction. I know it's a tough time for movie theaters, but for the food and beverage businesses nearby, I would think a thriving movie theater would generate more business than 200 apartments would.

I want you to unpack that. Do you think 225 apartments would generate more business on the downtown mall than a thriving movie theater? That's a tough one. I think if the movie theater really was thriving, it could probably bring in a lot more than 200 apartments. Because 200 apartments, they're definitely going to use the downtown mall. They're definitely going to use the F&B services on the downtown mall.

But there's no guaranteeing that they're going to do that on any regular basis. I mean, even if I lived on the downtown mall, that doesn't mean I'm going to go down and spend money on restaurants every day. And I'm sure that will hold true for the people that move in there. I respond. Go ahead. Whereas with a thriving movie theater, you've got people that are coming to the downtown mall

for not necessarily food and beverage, but chances are they're going to stop somewhere either on the way to the downtown mall for not necessarily food and beverage, but chances are they're going to stop somewhere either on the way to the theater or on the way from the theater. And those people aren't living on the downtown mall there every day and deciding whether, do I really want to spend, these are people that are going for a night out, spending money anyways. I think he probably has a point that having a thriving movie theater would do more for the F&B in the area. I push back on that. And I push back on this.

Thriving theater. Yeah. That is the caveat. Thriving theater. A thriving That is the caveat. Thriving theater. A thriving movie theater will never exist again. Certainly not in that footprint. What does a thriving theater look like today? Show me a thriving movie theater.

There's not one in Charlottesville. And if you have three movie theaters in Charlottesville, Fifth Street Station, Stonefield, and Downtown Mall, they destroy market share. They splinter market share. Which is strange. I remember a time when different theaters had different movies. In fact, Violet Crown does have, I think,

some select movies that don't make it to the other two. But for the most part, all the movies seem to be coming out from the same source. I don't know what, but I remember movies, other theaters got movies from other outlets. Why does it not happen anymore? I think that would definitely help, because you're right. Having three that are all showing exactly the same movie is idiocy.

It's absolute idiocy. It's cutting your nose to spite your face. It's an odd metaphor. I would say it's trying to compete in a pond with sharks as opposed to finding your own pond and being the only

minnow in it. I don't think they have a choice. That's a question I have. That's in the weeds here. That's not what this story is about. We're going to go one more from Deep Throat and then John Blair's got some great commentary. Deep Throat, who, I'll give some props

to the guy. All our viewers and listeners are extremely intelligent. You, the viewer and listener, makes the talk show. Without our viewers and listeners, this talk show is a shadow of its self. Shadow of its former self? Deep Throat has done this. A shadow.

Calculations on what a 184-foot-tall building would be or do to the downtown mall from a shading standpoint. At 4 p.m. on a May afternoon, a 184-foot building would cast a shadow all the way across Market Street. If my calculations are correct, I'm using simple shadow length, height, and the tangent angle of the sun.

Nice. That's so crazy. I really want to use your first and last name, Deep Throat, so I can give you some props on this. He said the Omni would get shadowed in the morning. Let's go to John Blair. John Blair has some really good questions. Number two in the family, John Blair.

John, if you were here, I would give you a proverbial chest bump or pour you some of the fantastic top shelf Irish whiskey we have where we bust open when we close a deal or sign a contract. He says this, Jerry, I truly want to know this answer. Who do you trust more, the Daily Progress or Reddit? Reddit has commenters saying on this thread, commenters who work at the Violent Crown that are saying the theater closing is not true. In the Reddit thread, it's the opposite of what the paper, the Daily Progress, is reporting. He says, I give the benefit of the paper, the Daily Progress, is reporting. He says, I give the benefit of the

doubt to the Daily Progress, but that thread really does seem to question some of the story. He also says, you might want to look at the Reddit thread. I have. I check Reddit daily. He says, I honestly have. I'm one of the most popular guys on the Charlottesville Reddit thread. What's the laugh at that? I'm far from that. I think I'm the least popular guy on the Charlottesville Reddit thread. Now that Hunter Smith has vanished. It's right there with Ethiopian restaurant. John Blair also says, I honestly have zero clue what is going on with this story.

I want to know this. Is the New York City developer, Jeff Levine, utilizing the press and the media to pressure maybe blackmail? Maybe that's a heavy-handed word. I'll take that back, Mr. Levine. I'll use pressure.

Is the New York City developer, I'll scratch blackmail, is the New York City developer, Jeff Levine, using the media to pressure council and city hall to give him exactly what he wants by leveraging public perception to his benefit to get the best out of a deal. I wonder if he's manufacturing the whole thing and creating an environment where he hopes to cause Violet Crown to close, if that's the case? No, no. I don't think that's like, basically what Jude is saying is, is he using some kind of like,

some kind of tactics that we see on Wall Street where someone can utilize a massive following on Twitter or someone that's a heavy hitter in the banking or finance or hedge fund space that can get a stock to run long or pop because he's holding shares, or tank because he's trying to short it. I don't think Jeff Levine is doing that. I think what he is doing... That's not really what I was... You're basically saying this.

Is he trying to get Violent Crown to fail so he can buy the dirt? That's what you just said. Why else would he be manufacturing this story? He's manufacturing the story, the perception story of, if you don't give me what I want, this is going to be a closed up storefront where the houseless can poo-poo and pee-pee. And that's what Natalie Ostrand said in the story. Which part do you not agree with there? If Violet Crown has no intention of closing, go ahead.

How does anything in the article make any sense? What is he trying to do? If Violet Crown is not closing, is it Elevate owns the the dirt right now if they have no intention of selling the dirt because they have a tenant that's planning on being there as long as possible uh what can i can i read what did you read the article yeah it says the cinema is closing regardless of whether Levine's vision becomes a reality. Ever since COVID, the box office sales have been down for the industry nationwide.

And with two other Charlottesville theaters to compete with, Violent Crown has not been selling enough tickets to remain profitable. Last year, the Austin, Texas-based Chainz Theaters were sold to Elevate Entertainment Group. As part of the deal, Elevate also agreed to operate Charlottesville Violent Crown on a short-term lease. There literally has a short-term lease. You wouldn't operate a building with this kind of overhead

and this kind of labor and this kind of cost on a short-term lease unless you were planning on exiting. Did you just read what John said? What? That the employees at Violent Crown are saying that Violent Crown's not closing?

Okay, so I'm going to take somebody who takes... Well, then discuss that. Don't just shoot it out there and then get me to talk about it. Am I going to take the guy that's... Okay. All right. Do you want me to prioritize the person

that is filling the popcorn tubs and splattering them with fluid and liquid butter and asking if we want Coke or Diet Coke over the commentary of the developer that's built a building that's tens of millions of dollars on West Main Street in the site of the Blue Moon Diner, who also owns the University Tire Building, who also owned the Artful Lodger livery stable shopping center, who formed a joint venture with a Glen Allen hotel developer, who created a partnership with

Marriott to build a $500 a night hotel room in a Marriott brand on the downtown mall. So we are to believe the anonymous Redditors. We're not. We're not. I'm sorry. I set you off on this. You didn't set me off.

It's a talk show. It's not setting people off. I didn't mean it that way. I just meant sent you off on this tangent. Please continue. I can't prioritize anonymous commenters on Reddit that pump butter into popcorn tubs over a man that's built nearly a $100 million building on West Main Street and owns other sites in the city of Charlottesville. I understand. I think what the man is doing is using the media to his advantage to position a narrative of another Dewberry skeleton where the houseless are pooing and peeing and rats are running around. Or he could be the white-robed, bearded, walker on water who takes the fishes and the loaves and feeds the hundreds. By building 225 apartments at a time when activists in Charlottesville, one of them quoted in the article, Matthew Gilligan, co-chair of Livable Charlottesville, the urbanist activist group, saying we need the housing.

Matthew Gilligan is basically bending over for Jeff Levine in this picture, in this article, in this narrative. He's bending over for Jeff Levine, saying give this man whatever he wants. That's what Matthew Gilligan of Livable Charlottesville is saying. Bent over and saying, give this man whatever he wants. Give him the 18 stories, the 225 apartments, the tax breaks, give him everything he wants. And when that happens, I'm

saying, John Dewberry is then going to ask for the same damn thing. Wouldn't Dewberry ask? Here's another effing crazy story. Are you ready for this crazy story viewers and listeners god this story isn't this story is incredible this story is incredible are you ready for this oh yeah listen to this who killed the John Dewberry tax break parking garage arrangement deal for his hotel when he bought it from Halsley Minor. The CNET founder who went bankrupt.

Who killed that deal? Question for you, Judah. You got this. Who killed the Johnny Dewberry deal when he bought the skeleton from Halsley Minor and CNET? Payne.? Payne. Michael Payne. And why did Michael Payne kill that deal? Charlottesville City Councilor.

He killed it when he was running for council. Why did he kill that deal, along with Nakaya Walker? Why did he kill that deal? Wasn't it over taxes? He said, we're not giving tax breaks to out-of-market developers.

This is so effing crazy. Michael Payne, who's currently on city council, killed the Dewberry deal that Mayor Mike Signer negotiated. And Mayor Mike Signer, the attorney, negotiated a deal. This was all confirmed by Lloyd Snook on the I Love Seville show.

Video that exists on the I Love Seville network. Lloyd Snook talking about Michael Payne killing this deal. Mike Signer, Lloyd Snook confirmed, negotiated a deal for John Dewberry to take over the Dewberry Hotel when it was formerly Halsley Miner's project. Halsley Miner, the CNET founder, went bankrupt. As a part of the bankruptcy, Dewberry acquired the Dewberry Hotel, the skeleton, the remains of what Halsley Miner built.

Dewberry then negotiated a deal with Mike Signer, the mayor. That deal included parking spaces in the Water Street Garage and tax breaks. That deal was in the bottom of the ninth inning and the contract was about to be signed. John Hancock. And then Michael Payne and Nakia Walker kiboshed that deal.

They effing killed that deal. And they said, we're not giving tax breaks to out-of-market developers. Michael Payne's words, exact words. And now an out-of-market developer is asking Michael Payne for the same tax breaks. Holy bejeebus. This is effing crazy. How is Michael Payne for the same tax breaks. Holy bejeebus. This is effing crazy. How is Michael Payne going to respond? Two spots on council up for re-election next year.

Brian Pinkston and Juan Diego Wade. The mayor and vice mayor up for re-election. This will be front and center on what's their platform. This should be front and center on their platform. And I was right. Deeded restrictions on the sale of a building. Your question, 10% of units. How would, if someone else purchased a building

that had 10% of units for affordability for 99 years, how would that be enforced? This is crazy. Let's go to Neil Williamson. You get his photo on screen? Neil Williamson, president of the Free Enterprise Forum. The city also chose to rebuild one of its parking garages and include 100 residential units

in what became known as the Bookend Project, with apartments on one side, condos on the other, and retail on the bottom. The city oversaw the development and then sold projects to private developers, a formula that repeated at least five times on other projects. This is in Greenville, South Carolina. This approach provided critical mass population to support retail, which flourished. To this day, Mayor Knox White is a champion for downtown residential housing. He shares a link on his notes from Greenville, North Carolina, when the Chamber of Commerce and city elected officials,

along with Neil Williamson, went down to Greenville, South Carolina. Such a crazy story. Vanessa Parkhill, would this apartment building have on-site parking for residents? would it have on-site parking for residents? that's a great question anyone have that answer? that's a good one for Deep Throat Kevin Higgins

exactly right Jerry those counselors and the mayor at the time couldn't see past their nose it's embarrassing Bill McChesney watching the program. Who owns the building Violent Crown is in now? Kevin Higgins asks. Elevate

Entertainment Group. Oh, man. Absolutely crazy. I will say this article is vague in areas and sourced in sketchy fashion I have these questions that were not present in the article

how many years of tax breaks does the New York City developer want? Ginny Hu, the last time I went to Violent Crown was for a Star Wars movie and walked out to hear Carrie Fisher had died eight years ago. If I'm going to spend my hard-earned money going to the movies, it's Alamo where someone will wait on me. And she says, oh my word, I wish my middle school child could meet Deep Throat. Figuring out the shadow angle is something he would definitely do, her middle school child. We have, Ginny, are you a mother of three? We have mothers of three that are asking men who direct message

in a social media podcast for an introduction. I love the world we live in, the 2024 world we live in. We put this photo on screen that's representative of Deep Throat. Can you put his photo on screen? And a fantastic mother of three, a phenomenal woman mother of three, is asking that her middle child can meet the person that's on screen right now. 2024, it's a beautiful world where you can take children to breweries and wineries and booze while they play and run around the bar. What a wonderful world we live in. This is so crazy. Under the new zoning, there is no parking minimum.

Deep throat. But that would be a hard sell. So I imagine underground parking, which tells me this is probably $4 to $5 a square foot. Or, I don't understand that. $4,4 to $5 a square foot. I don't understand that. $4,000 to $5,000 a month kind of place? Is that what you're saying?

Yeah, I have no doubt in my mind that these apartments would ask top dollar. Kevin Yancey says, how often are $500 a night hotels occupied? Kevin Yancey, you would be shocked. $500 a night hotels are occupied all the time. My wife and I got married in June of 2017. In June of 2017, we had a massive wedding. I think there was damn near close to 200 guests at our wedding. We got married in what we thought was going to be the mansion that Patricia Kluge lived in. It ended up selling to Trump right prior to our wedding. It was the huge mansion on the hill, arguably one of the best views out there.

200 people. Those 200 people struggled for a place to stay. There goes Brian Haleska across the street. Those 200 people struggled for a place to rent. They ended up renting in the hotels in Charlottesville, some of them, and easily were paying $500 a night. Tom Powell, founder of Toilift. Slowly, the downtown mall will become nothing but apartments with only a few restaurants and small shops. 20 years from now, all the shopping and restaurants will be located on Route 29,

just like you see happening in cities all over America. Let's hope that's not the case. I'll also add this. You ready for this? I have a fair question for you, Judah, and the viewers and listeners. Can the restaurants and shops and merchants that are indicating to the entire world that they're vulnerable and fragile right now. Can they sustain 24 to 36 months of construction in downtown Charlottesville? That would be two to three years of additional headwinds. Headwinds that are compounded by the houseless, by parking, by perceived crime. Whether fair or not, they are the headwinds that are compounded by the houseless, by parking, by perceived crime, whether fair or not, they are the headwinds that people perceive. Can they sustain three years of construction? The heavy hitter developer that was sitting across from us that owns buildings on the mall,

he said, easily a two-year project. He said, it takes two days just to tear down one of my houses and to knock down a house. He said you got a massive concrete building on downtown Charlottesville. You'd have to close Water Street down and you'd have to bring in the heaviest of heavy equipment to tear it down. Easily two years, if not three, for this project. He said you'd be shutting Water Street down. Insane in the membrane. Insane in the brain. This one comes in from someone in the business, construction business, development business, the real estate business. Man, the feed is on fire right now. He says, because I'm in the game, you need to keep my name out of this. All theaters are struggling and COVID contributed. Personally, my house was very COVID conscious. We needed to be, but we returned to theaters in 2022, but always go to

Fifth Street because it provides parking and we got tired of not feeling safe at times downtown with our little kids. He also said, firsthand experience with movie theater buildings. There is a very expensive structure to repurpose for a new commercial tenant. The stadium seating concrete is so much different than re-renting core office or retail space. Current owners are really screwed with that physical asset. He also says, if the city does not play ball, that parcel will sit dark for years because I can't see a new tenant buying that parcel and not having to tear it down. He also says, a buyer who wants to do housing must do many units

to pencil it out, but there is no way any bank or private equity would underwrite a big loan with current city affordable constraints beyond 12 units. He also says, I can't get behind a TIF for a job and commerce-producing structure, but hard, too, for housing. That's not how TIFs work. A TIF is what Dewberry should get for the hotel. What a quagmire this is for all parties. Now 225 apartments would be great for the mall once it's complete for people working in code, 323 apex, et cetera, to live and to be able to walk, basically a live, work, play, but they would have to get to that two or three year marker and surpass it. Unbelievable. TIF is Tax Incremental Financing, for those that are asking on the feed.

I'm sorry I used the acronym. Tax Incremental Financing. Neil Williamson, how long was Water Street shut down for the Ice Park transformation to code? Neil Williamson, I got feedback, a response to that.

The code project was done during COVID, during the pandemic, when people were not coming downtown. Judah Wickowerhauer and i because we're perceived as news we were considered essential and could show up to work and not uh what's it called when the government forced us to to stay in our houses and told us not to do is it it's not communism what is it what was the word when the government told us? Not a dictatorship. Not Fidel Castro's Cuba or Joseph

Stalin's Russia. Was it called when the government told us to stay at home during the pandemic and COVID? I'm not sure what you're looking for. What's it called? Oh, sorry, sorry, sorry. Let's let the fire truck go away. It was called a lockdown.

You had to quarantine. You had to do what was best for the community. It was not Fidel Castro's Cuba or Joseph Stalin's Russia, right? Yeah. Okay. This is not a dictatorship or communism. I misspoke. I got confused there.

Jason Nommel, tyranny. Neil, that project happened during COVID where it did not impede the downtown mall because the downtown mall was closed the timing of that construction was during COVID the timing of this construction would happen at the exact same time the merchants and vendors and the retailers and the restaurateurs are having to pay off EIDL loans

and debt that was accrued during the pandemic. So now they're trying to keep their doors open by managing escalated labor, escalated rents, escalated cost of goods at a time where the perception of parking issues, safety issues, and homeless issues is very real, all at the time when their EIDL loans and their COVID loans and their home equity lines of credit are coming due. Stuff that was accrued during the pandemic. Worst time possible.

Bill McChesney, martial law. I just call it dictatorship or communism. Joseph Stalin, Fidel Castro. Anything you want to add to this? God, what a crazy effing story. This community is, for a content creator, and a lot of what we do is create content. Content is currency. Content drives eyeballs. Eyeballs can be monetized. Eyeballs can have call to action message position in front of them that can drive incremental revenue and brand awareness or can fill vacant offices or vacant storefronts or vacant buildings.

For a content creator, this city is inspiring. It just doesn't sleep. It doesn't sleep. If you're just watching the program. It kind of does. What? It kind of does. How? You're talking about Charlottesville?

I'm talking the proverbial doesn't sleep, Judah. Yeah. I know you. What time do you go to bed? Is it 10 o'clock? 9 o'clock? 7 o'clock? You never know.

It changes. I'm not an in bed at a particular time kind of person. I sincerely mean this. I think you have one of the best lives in central Virginia. All right. Homeowner, 42 hours a week of work, can go to bed anytime you want, show up to work at 9.30 in the morning,

work downtown, frequent Jack Brown's, man about town very little responsibility outside of work mover and shaker Judah Wickower live in the dream we wake up every you know what time we woke up this morning

I do not soon to be two year old who turns two on the 27th of November got up at 4.49 in the morning 4.49 in the morning. 4.49 in the morning. Unbelievable. If you're just tuning into the program, Violet Crown Movie Theater is the house of cards that is crumbling. And New York City developer Jeff Levine, the man behind the apartment tower where Blue Moon Diner is located, the man who owns the University Shopping Center, and the man who owned

the Artful Lodger Livery Stable Shopping Center, a man who said, I was going to build apartments on the site of the Livery Stable and the Artful Lodger, who then pivoted and said, I'm going to build a hotel and partner with an out-of-market hotel developer and put a Marriott brand there instead because the new zoning ordinance doesn't work he said all that while he was negotiating a deal on the side for the dirt that was violent crown and now he's using the media probably using us we're using him frankly to create the story he's using us, we're using him, frankly, to create the story. He's using us, we're using him to create a narrative that if the city of Charlottesville doesn't give him what he wants, which is tax breaks, 18 stories,

184 foot tower of 225 apartments, then he's not going to do the deal. A violent crown is going to be a shutter disaster and it's going to be a shuttered disaster, and it's going to be a paradise for pee-pee and poo-poo. How about that for some perspective? The I Love Seville Show on a Wednesday. I'm Jerry Miller. Thank you.