The I Love CVille Show With Jerry Miller! - Fred Missel & Scott Smith Joined Keith Smith & Jerry Miller On “Real Talk With Keith Smith!”

Episode Date: August 8, 2025

Fred Missel & Scott Smith, Albemarle County Board of Supervisors candidates, joined Keith Smith & Jerry Miller on “Real Talk With Keith Smith” powered by YES Realty Partners and Yonna Smith! “Real Talk” airs every Friday from 10:15 am – 11 am on The I Love CVille Network! “Real Talk With Keith Smith” is presented by Charlottesville Settlement Company, LLC, El Mariachi Mexican Bar & Grill, MejiCali, Fincham & Associates, Inc., Free Enterprise Forum, Intrastate Service Co and YES Realty Partners.

Good Friday morning, guys. My name is Jerry Miller, and thank you kindly for joining us on Real Talk with Keith Smith, live in our studio in downtown Charlesville on the I Love Seville Network on a show, today, presented by Yes Realty Partners. The name you can trust, Yes, Realty Partners online at yes, realty partners.com. They will help you with the buying and selling of real estate across Charlottesville, Almorel County, and Central Virginia. Today's show is an anticipated program.

We have been promoting the show for about a week now on the I Love Seville Network. Fred Missal and Scott Smith are in the House. The only contested election in Almorel County, ladies and gentlemen, in the Samuel Miller District. A lot of topics, and storylines in Almarl County as housing affordability continues to be front and center, a lot of other storylines that we're going to cover as well, bicycle and pedestrian safety,

safety for a community at large, taxpayers feeling the pinch, especially as it applies to real estate assessments, so much to cover in the year 2025 as this community, Alamara County, has radically changed post-COVID. Those topics and more on a show that live streams on every social media platform, possible, a show that welcomes you, the viewer, and listener to ask questions and shape the discussion. Judah Wickhauer's studio camera, please, and let's go to a foreshot as we welcome Keith Smith, Scott Smith, and Friend Missal to the Friday edition of Real Talk with Keith Smith. We need to get this out in the front.

No relation, right? That's right. Well, maybe. We didn't do our 23 and me yet. No, not yet. We might be related in some way. Gentlemen, thank you for doing this as we're saying. in the intro, you know, this is just a couple of guys having a cup of coffee

talking about what we love the most in this region. In this show, it's around real estate. You know, Jerry kind of kicked off a little bit, but I want to kind of do a set the frame on real estate real quick, and then we'll let you two guys introduce yourself, but I'm going to go ahead and get this data out there first, and then you guys can introduce yourself. So Jerry was talking about the last couple of years, but I went back and look at 2019, which was pre-COVID, Albemar County, and now year-to-date on that, what has sold,

you know, so forth and so on. So interesting, we're down about 25% in volumes. So we've sold 25% less homes today than we did in 2019. Annualized? Excuse me? Annualized? It is annualized, yes. So, thank you. But the medium sales price is up 49.6. Let's call it 50%. It jumped from 380 in 2019 to 568 right now at this particular point and one other

just quick little thing to throw out there of the sales of 2025 only about a quarter a third of them were under $400,000 so again housing we're going to kind of talk about

this stuff but if you don't mind I'm going to let Fred kick off first and then you can introduce yourself Scott thanks Keith thanks Jerry I appreciate you guys having us Scott, thank you too for running. I think having an opponent

in this race is actually going to make the race better for the community. And, you know, just one of the ways it's better is by having these types of conversations. So I'm grateful for the opportunity. I truly believe iron sharpens iron, and I think we can do that together. Moving forward, and regardless

of the outcome of the race, I think that, you know, continued discussions like this are going to be invaluable to the community. So thanks for that. Yeah, so Fred Missal, and just one thing, Keith, just on following up on your comment there, the one interesting fact that you put next to the increase in housing costs is what we're seeing in terms of incomes, and the incomes have not kept up with housing costs. And so that's one of the issues that I think we need

to be thinking about is, you know, as we think about people trying to afford new homes and tax increases and efficiencies and so on, I think it's important to also think about what their incomes are doing and diversifying that. So Fred Missile, I've been here, gosh, in this area for almost 40 years. I was a student here at the University of Virginia, graduated in 1990. I started in my graduate school as an urban and environmental planning major and determined that it was a great path and I really enjoyed it a lot, but I also wanted to look at working on physical environment and seeing an impact on the physical environment. So I pursued a landscape Architecture Master's degree in addition to the planning urban planning degree. Probably most

importantly is I came here one day after I was married. So I married my undergrad sweetheart, and we met each other in freshman orientation, actually, and we've been together now over 42 years. And so she moved here. She's a nurse. She's now retired, and she supported me through four years of graduate school. In the fourth year, we had our first daughter, and she's remarkable. She was a D-1 athlete also at the university in Rowing, and she is married to a wonderful gentleman, and we have our first grandchild now, so we're excited they're actually visiting this weekend.

And then three and a half years later, almost to the day, we had our second daughter, and she and her husband live here in Charlottesville, so it's been great to actually have them's live close by. I've done a lot in the community engagement. I don't want to just ramble to hear myself talk, but... We'll probably get into all of that stuff as we'll wait on that. We're going to give Scott a shot here. Sounds good.

Sure. So again, thank you guys both for the opportunity to be here. Thanks, Fred, for being here. I actually grew up in university communities around the U.S. and actually a little bit in Canada, too. So, you know, very much like Charlottesville, you know, grew up in an academic communities. You know, it's interesting because of that, some of my initial passion for government came out of my participation in Boy State, you know, way back in the day, back in high school. Engineering degrees, undergrad and graduate degrees in engineering, specifically industrial.

And I think the key part probably about that is it helps organizations operate more efficiently. We'll probably end up touching base on that a little bit. Multi-decade career in, you know, high-tech enterprise software, specifically around helping organizations. organizations become more efficient. We moved here. Nancy and I met, well, 35th, in our 36th year of marriage. You need to get that right. I know. That's what I was just thinking I'm on air. I better be careful here. 1990 we got married. And so, anyway, and three children, I've adopted, you know, all the, you know, the kids, it's pretty exciting. And moved here five years ago, fell in love with their just a rural beauty, and I'm sure all of you can kind of attest to that.

And so it's just a great opportunity. You know, one of the things that comes up, I was just thinking back, like being an election official last year that was, you know, getting up at the crack of dawn, or actually before the crack of dawn and going out and doing it, or when we went down to Samaritan's purse to help out with the hurricane victims and took supplies down there. And so, anyway, lots of opportunities to participate in the community, looking forward to the conversation today. So I kind of started off with, because this is a housing show, right?

It's a real estate show, you know, when you have a third of the homes that are selling under $400,000 for a little background. I also chair a couple of affordable housing nonprofits and kind of big in that space. So, and I'm just going to throw this out there. If elected, what can you do to help that number? Should we help it? Should we not? what's your guys and just jump in whoever wants to jump in first. What are your thoughts

on that on how we can move that needle forward? So you're talking about increasing affordability essentially. Yeah, I mean, you know, we had this conversation before the cameras and went live about the incomes right? Yeah. We're at 125, 200 is the $800, $800. $800, thank you. It's a HUD, median family

household income. Thank you. That was last year had a $200 and a handle in it. Yeah, so you know, how do we reconcile that math? Yeah, it's a challenge. I'll give it a shot. Yeah, go ahead. So some of you know I'm involved in three housing projects right now, and two of them are 100% affordable housing. And one is located in the city, one is located in the county, and then we have a third project that we're looking at. And we're targeting 30% AMI and below, area median income and below, as much as possible.

And in working with the two developers that we've been part. with, one is Piedmont Housing Alliance, one is preservation of affordable housing out of Boston. It's been very clear that working in this locale, and they do work in others, not so much Piedmont, but definitely preservation of affordable housing. The funding is just not there. And that funding in large part comes from the locality. And what I've realized is the benefit of local funding and what that can do to actually increase the ability for those developers to gain additional funding.

So it's sometimes a two-to-one relationship, sometime even better. And when that's not there, it's a huge gap and it's a real challenge for them. So, Scott, you know, Fred, you're talking rentals, right? My numbers are more on the purchase side and the ownership side. So what's your thoughts on that as far as the $400,000 and how can we navigate that number? You know, I mean, there's some basic economics here, right? I mean, there's, it's, you know, Adam Smith, you know, invisible hand, right, in terms of supply and demand, that plays a big role in kind of what's going on. I know a young couple that recently purchased their first home, and they're both, they're not entry-level wages, but they're not, you know, they're in the medical field, but they're not, you know, physicians or dentists or anything like that.

So they chose to go over the hell and, you know, purchase a property. over there and just extend their commute, right? And you'd like to see them, you know, being able to find something a little closer, right? But at the same time, you've got a lot of variables that are going on. I mean, let's look at taxes, for example. I'd like to see the government operating, you know, with some fiscal discipline and being as disciplined as you can about how the money that we're spending. There's a lot of issues.

There's a lot of opportunities, I think, for improvement. And specifically, you were talking about, you were talking about, you know, you were talking about, you know, some of the housing, you've also, you know, there's a huge increase in the value of those housing. It's not just taxes, it's the assessments. And so I've talked to people that have had 20, 30 percent raises in their assessments. So I'd like to see the government, you know, operating with fiscal responsibility to help keep those costs down. And at the same time, we could look at opportunities, you know, for more affordable housing. So I hear that. I've been doing this for 40 years now.

I was going to ask you what you think. You're the guest. No questions. I got a lot of questions for you. Yeah, great, thanks. You said Buster Chavez. Yeah, you did, you did. So how do you do that, right?

Right. You know, how do you, how do we actually do that? How do we actually adjust the budgets or adjust the taxing to get there? I'm a business guy. We're business guys. We tend to look at things from a business perspective. You're a developer, right? So you're going to look at these things from a developer's perspective.

But how do you do that and then also kind of take care of everything else at the same time? Does that make any sense, that question? Yeah, it does. I mean, if you look at current budgets, and I'm not going to go into the weeds on it, but, you know, 40-year businessperson in the high-tech arena, probably the most transformative industry in the last hundred years, you know, in terms of what we've been doing, and the changes that are coming up, not just in the past, but in the future, right?

But back to your question, you know, in terms of, you know, the budget, there are opportunities, there are surpluses that have been in there that are just getting, you know, reput back in, and you could leverage some of those funds to help keep some of these costs down. I have direct experience in terms of just the process of, you know, simply as a homeowner building a deck and all the things that you had to go through with that, you know, there's a gentleman over on Ivy Road that, you know, was trying to put it in, a couple of bays on his, you know, garage. And it took him seven or eight years to kind to get through the process, right? Well, we're going to talk about red tape into green tape.

Yeah, but anyway, I think there are definitely opportunities for greater efficiency and to kind of hold the line. Because what's going to happen, let me just, what's going to happen is if we keep going the direction that we're going, a lot of people in the working arena are going to get pushed out. Retired people, you know, people, you know, that are kind of above the median income. I mean, there's a squeeze that's happening. I can speak to that with some authority and the pred, you know, trying to. Yeah. I agree with a lot of what you're saying, Scott. I think what we have to look at is really specifically your question, Keith, which is how do we do that? and the how is the question.

So if we're talking about funds, that's one way, right? It's finding capital ways to actually contribute so that the homeowner can reduce their costs. And that might be through taxes. That might be through using some of the reserve funds that the county is currently keeping for rainy days and re-looking at those and making sure that those are efficiently used, not overstated, but are in the right place.

I think you also have to look at the homeowner And you have to ask, what is it that's part of the capital stack to buying a house that's an introductory house in the area of $400,000 or below. And you have to look at things like land costs. And so land costs in the area are through the roof. And so if there are ways to help reduce land costs, potentially through having some partnership or a land trust that could assist with that. I think that's a really helpful way to do it. We're going to let Jeffrey jump in, but I'm going to pick some of that apart. Yeah, please do it.

I live in Ivy. I live within the Samuel Miller District. I've been in this community for 25 years. Started as a UVA student, then a married man, then father of two. Awesome. We are emotionally, financially, and personally invested in the Samuel Miller District and in Ivy, Virginia. One of my businesses is called I-Heart, I love Seville. So what you guys are doing is not only paramount to my family and our future generations, but how we pay our mortgage and our bills. From my standpoint, housing affordability is tied to supply and demand,

and it's tied to an Almorel County policy where 5% of the county is allocated to development. That 5% of the county is not fully developed, and the topography of that 5% suggests that not all the 5% can be developed. I'm going to ask both you guys a very pointed question, because I'm a business person who looks at things through pointed lenses. Should the 5% developmental area be expanded, or do we wait to expand the 5% until full density is realistic or materializes in the development area we have today? Yeah, it's a great question. One that comes up almost as often as how do you make housing affordable. and it's one I've thought a lot about

and it's one that's obviously near and dear not only to the county but also to the Samuel Miller District and specifically because of the rural preservation focus. So I'll say a few things just off the bat. One is there is no direct answer. I'd like to be able to say I am 100% for not moving that boundary. But my answer is a little bit more nuanced and that is in Albemarle County within the development area

It's about 35, I think, square miles or so of the total 725,000 square miles. So it's three times of the size of Charlottesville, the development area for the county. And what we've seen on the planning commission over the last several years and even on the ARB is that the amount of density that the comprehensive plan in its former form, before, you know, we're obviously redoing that now, The amount of land that is slated for development, if you take that as 100%, we're only realizing about 58% of that total land area for development. And there are a number of reasons for that, but I think those include topography, infrastructure, et cetera. So I think step number one, layer number one is we have to look at, we have to essentially look at how well we're doing in the development area to create density and to unlock density in those areas. That's another tangent. We can talk about that a little bit later,

but it has to do with comprehensive plans. It has to do with zoning ordinance, refresh and modernization, all of those types of things. So not to put words in your mouth, but you're basically saying the 5% is not fully optimized until the 5% is fully optimized for housing density. We should not expand the development area. I would say that that, yes, is the case.

And what I would also add to that is... I agree with that. I would add to that the perimeter, right? Yeah. The areas around the edge... Yeah. are the first stage of expansion. Exactly, and that's a little bit of a gray area for me right now.

Because you don't want urban sprawl. Correct. So, yeah, I think that's the second layer is the edges. And then, you know, I think the third layer is what we're doing in the rural areas. And, you know, we've talked about, we can talk more about that in a minute, but, you know, I've got some ideas about that as well. Scott, your question. The 5% development area should it be expanded or not? As someone who votes in the Samuel Miller district, it's an opinion-based talk show, expanding

development area from my standpoint would be an absolute mistake. I choose to live in Almaro County because of quality of life because of green because they're environmental. I don't want to Northern Virginia or Fredericksburg. That's my take. I'm curious of yours. So your question actually reminds me of a conversation I had just like two weeks ago with one of the Samuel Miller constituents. Her name is Sarah. And we're sitting there talking and I just knocked on her door, right? I just started talking to her. And the first thing she talked about was the preservation of, you know, the rural nature. And we had a pretty lengthy conversation about it.

Later, she asked about affordable housing for her children, okay, in the same conversation. In the rural area? She didn't say where. Yeah, it was just a general conversation. But housing affordability and not expanding the development area can still coexist. That's right. Yeah, so right now, in the development areas, as they stand, there's still an opportunity

for like 11,000-ish units to go in there. are, right? And so, I mean, the rural area is what attracted me here, you know, willing to kind of look at it, but, you know, in the conversations I'm having with people, they really want to preserve the rural areas. And so I would like, I am also interested in preserving the rural areas. Okay, so we have that. Keith, I'll throw this to you. So both candidates here are not in favor of expanding the development area. Can we say that with confidence and conviction fellows? Yes. Okay. Okay. So check for me on this, and I think check for a lot of, uh, a lot of folks out there, maybe not so a check for Keith. I mean, the guys over there get a little antsy in his seat, if you can tell over there. See you guys later. Yeah, he's got it. He wants it

expanded. I absolutely do not. We're diametrically opposed on that. And that's part of the fun of the show. Yeah, it's great. We look at things a little... Watch the framing over there, Jay-Oves. A little bit different. So, first of all, the 5% is not 5%. So we should stop using the term 5%.

The 5% Never was 5% because of the topographical layout. because some of it's already industrial or commercial, right? So 5% really isn't 5%. And I'll tell you, I've been having this 5% expansion conversation with Board of Supervisors, Al-Bemar Board of Supervisors for a very long time. The good news is they're actually having that conversation at the dais right now.

Before, from my perspective, before that, it was a, you know, you'd never brought it up, you know, you just didn't do it. I think there's two paths forward that could help. One is a little bit of a low-hanging fruit, which is... Office to residential. Look at the commercial. Look at the thing. It's not a lot of it, but there's enough of it.

And those of us in this field kind of know that market's a little soft right now. So, you know, you could go ahead and take a look at that. And I don't think, I think reportioning the 5% is something to look at. Okay, so reportioning what he's saying is substituting out pieces of the different. development area for others. Mike Pruitt is pushing this super hard. I do not buy this in any capacity. He's saying take Rivana Village where my

former neighborhood, Glemore, kept development from happening in Rivana Village, substitute out Rivana Village that's in the development area with another track of land and make a trade Z here. That sounds bananas to me. Let's go back to keep... It's not necessarily excuse me for a second. It's not necessarily...

Sorry, guys, we'll end up doing this, so you guys got to stop us. So... We'll talk amongst us. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's hear what the fellows have to say about this. I have some coffee talk. So the, I think Fred was on to something. I don't think we have a clear assessment of what's available and what we can do for it. Not from a developer's perspective.

We might have it from a land planter's perspective. And we might have it from some other perspective. But what do we actually have? What can we do with it? So I would be in favor of doing that first and assessing what we have, right? Yeah, 100%. And, you know, it's much like the conversation I have with some of my other board of supervisors, you know, that are very much so anti-housing, no more housing.

And I don't think great. Well, what's your answer? Right. What's your solution? So Scott and Fred, should we trade out land that's not in the development area for a land that is where development's not happening? Yeah, I want to go back to Keith's comment because this is something that I think is really important. And I suppose this probably doesn't follow necessarily in the economic ability. But to your point, this is something I've been very aware for a while.

You drive up and down 29, lots of retail space and what's happened since COVID, a lot of that retail space has gone kaput, right? And so I think there's significant opportunities where you could look at rezoning some of that commercial space or residential and have it mixed use. You could put, you know, residences in there. You could get really creative maybe on some affordable housing. There could be coffee shops in there. I mean, like the Fashion Square Mall, the place down by Kroger that's been abandoned for so long.

I think there's some really interesting opportunities. It's very much so low-hanging fruit. Yeah, I think it is low-hanging fruit. It's an easy thing. Here's the challenge. Most of those parcels are split up in multiple parcels. And that's where the mall is one, for example. It's multiple parcels owned by multiple different.

And a lot of people don't realize that the commercial real estate, while vacant, is still under leased. And the landlords are collecting red holes. This is my real estate's how I make my living. They're vacant, but they're still making money on these vacant spots. Point in question, talk show. For you, Fred, do we take land that's not in the development area and trade it out for land that is in the development area like supervisor Mike Prudis is pushing in the Scottsville District?

Yeah, so I'll say this. I will say that land use and real estate is an analog science. It's not a digital science. and to say in a blanket statement, yes, we should do that, I think is not the right thing. I think we have to do what sort of Keith, and I think, Scott, you're also suggesting, and that is look at some of the individual parcels, look at some more detail, capturing a metric that tells us how much developable land is actually in our stock. So I'm going to jump in here because I'm going to twist the question on your moment.

Should the county do that, or should the county engage performance? professional developers to go ahead and do that. Because there's sometimes very much so differences the way the planning staff looks at something and the way the developers look at it. Well, they're connected. I mean, you can't really do one or the other. You have to do both together because you've got

the regulations that the staff is putting together. Sure. Got the comp plan, the zoning modernization. Those things are saying these are the critical slope areas. These are the flood plans. These are the things that you have to stay away from. So they're defining what the development. community can work within.

And so I think there has to be some push and pull in both directions. I think the county and the county staff, at least in my experience, is aligned with doing this, with looking at and trying to maximize the development area and part of that. And I know, Scott, you were talking primarily about housing and trying to find places for 11,000 units, I think you said, of housing, and that there's capacity for that. I think we need to look at it holistically. We can't just say it's about housing because we're definitely looking at. it needs to diversify our tax base, and that includes the commercial, the retail, and some of

the other support. So looking at the commercial as a low-hanging fruit. We've got infrastructure there, right? We've got water there. The traffic is already there. We need to get Scott's take. I'm treading out land outside the development area for land that's in the development area. We haven't gotten his answer on that.

He's saying no, or at least he's... I'm saying we study it. You're hesitant to do it, is kind of what you're saying. I'm saying we need to study it. Okay, okay. And I'm not hesitant to study it. I'm ready to study it. Okay.

Okay. What's your take on this? You know, I think to Keith's point, you know, as you're looking at, you know, professionals looking at things, as you're looking at planners looking at things, I would, I'd be willing to look at it on, you know, a use case. I think right now more people that I'm talking to want to stay inside the area for now and we can look at it, but I mean, I'm hesitant to do that. So you're a no.

You're a no on that. Going outside? Yeah, trading land outside the development area for land that's in the development area. For right now, yeah. I think we need to look at it. And I am not a – I actually hate studies for the same. sake of doing studies, except for this one. I think you need to actually do a true assessment. They are trying to do it. And I'm a unique animal. I got one foot in the private sector and one

foot in the public sector, right? So I can see both sides of the coin. And one of the struggles that I have when I talk to the public sector, they don't really understand what it costs to do something, right? Yeah. And it's not their fault. It's just the way they are, right? So when you know, bringing both of these sides of these tables together, I think is important. And is that something if you guys are elected, I would be pushing you guys to go ahead and do because you can't make that decision without the data, right? Well, I'd say one thing, and we experienced this together, I think, when we were in, it was up in North Fork, actually, we were talking about affordable housing.

We were talking about ways to fund affordable housing. And we were, the supervisors were together with the planning commissioners and the development community. Yeah. And you may have actually been the one who sponsored that. I was the one who pushed that. Yeah. And I think about the regular development incentives that Amar County was going to do.

And I think those types of meetings are critical. And I don't think they happen. At least I'm not aware of them happening that often. I cannot tell you how much time and effort it took to put that together. I'm sure. And it should be easier than that, right? That's what I'm pushing. And the one thing that I will say about that experience was,

at least what I saw in the Housing Albemarle, what came out of that discussion, fell short of the goal that was set in that discussion. In other words, I felt like there were more, I guess, incentives requested by the development community to be able to make the math work in affordable housing than what actually showed up in the Housing Albumo. So, Scott, to put a little context to this,

this was the developer incentives that Albemore County was putting together. I sit on the Thomas Jefferson Planning District Commission and the Regional Housing Partnership and I noticed they were talking past each other, right? Sure. The elected or the governmental bodies and the folks are actually doing it

or talking past each other. So I kind of pushed to put everybody in a room. It didn't quite end up. It was good that we were in the room. What we discussed did not necessarily make it into the ending document. So would you be supportive of that of having both the private sector and the public sector coming together and having conversations

on this? I mean, absolutely. Remember, I'm a business person, 40-decade business person. It's all about that. But, you know, actually, we've got a really good example right now that's relevant to what you guys are asking about, like Dudley Mountain Road. I mean, I don't know, Fred, if you go back to that one, like when they came to the planning commission, I mean, what was the dialogue like with those guys, you know, the school?

I mean, we're talking about the forest school. Yeah, the Forest School, Dudley Mountain Road. Yeah, like, you know, when you were sitting there with them at the Planning Commission meeting, how that, you know, what was that like? Well, it was interesting. It was interesting a discussion. That project is kind of a case study is helpful. And I'll just paraphrase the outcome of that discussion. Okay.

And that was essentially, number one, there needs to be infrastructure to be able to support developments that are good ideas potentially in the rural area, and that was the biggest hint sort of test point, that was the biggest concern, was that the infrastructure wasn't there. And the message that was trying to be sent by the planning commission was a message to the board of supervisors saying this is potentially a very good, a very suitable use in this area. And when you look at the by-right, for example, would have created much more traffic on that site.

But the message that was being sent was we don't have the infrastructure to support that. There was a swing vote at the last minute at the planning commission that changed and it was recommended to the Board of Supervisors for approval. And then as you know, I think it was two nights ago, there was

approval of five to one. With Diana McKeel, the only to vote against it. Diana was the only person who voted against it and I spoke to her about that. And I said, tell me, what was your thinking? And she was very clear. And she said, essentially we're dealing with a road, a VDOT road, that is not suitable to handle the traffic. And the environmental concerns.

And the environmental concerns. So I'll jump in. Well, let me, I have a question. So, so how did you vote on that, Fred, at the planning meeting? So you obviously know that I wasn't in attendance at the planning committee meeting. And the reason was I was at an Urban Land Institute conference in Denver. Okay. It's an annual conference that's scheduled well in advance.

So I've had subsequent conversations with several constituents, along Dudley Mountain Road. And there were a couple of emails that I got, to be honest, that really kind of took me aside. I mean, I have pretty thick skin, but I was basically being accused of choosing to not show up, and I very clearly made it at the point that that wasn't the case. You have Lottie Murray's watching the program,

multiple planning pictures of watching the program right now. It was a 5-1 vote. I know this is something that you're trying to utilize here, Scott, which is fine. We can do that. I'll set some contacts here for the view. viewers and listeners that don't know, then Scott jump in. Dudley Mountain Road, the residents of Dudley Mountain Road,

significantly opposed this private school coming to their road. That's right. And they highlighted environmental concerns, traffic concerns, and safety concerns. This overwhelmingly passed 5-1 with the Almore County Board of Supervisors with Jim Andrews of the Samuel Miller District, highlighting to the media, this is one of the most difficult votes that he's had to make. That's right. But the Samuel Miller District Representative Jim Andrews, who's not running again,

Hence why these guys are running, said, I think this is a good idea. I know you have some follow-up here that you want to ask. You can go ahead and do it. So were you at the meeting on this past week a couple days ago? I was not in attendance, but I watched it. Okay. Yeah, I mean, it's really interesting, you know, from a business perspective, when I look at things, you have, on one hand, you've got a school.

I'm a huge supporter of schools, right? Education, you know, can change your stars. You've got a very special community. In fact, it's a Jewish community, and they're looking for this forest school, and there's a whole story behind that. And it's a really great story. On the other side of the coin, you've got, like, 600 residents that had signed petitions, not wanting it, you know, it's going against VDOT in terms of that,

the environmental things that you just talked about, water, all of these kinds of things. And it's outside the development area. And I think there was, I mean, you're in the real estate arena. If I had been on the board of supervisors, I think you could have engaged in conversation and had, you know, some creative outcome, positive outcomes for both sides. I really thought, you know, it was unfortunate, you know, that it was kind of a win-lose situation. I can certainly envision a win-win situation, and so. Scott, let me just ask you a question on that, because it was a challenging vote. It was a challenging bit of discussion.

Sorry. And, you know, all of the things that you said are 100% accurate. I would ask you, if you were sitting in the seat of a planning commissioner, you mentioned a little bit of it there. You have two, you have options in front of you, right? You have the land, the land as is, the land that could potentially go into a conservation easement, the land that could be developed into single-family detached homes by-right and other by-right opportunities. So the impacts of the buy-right opportunities potentially could be greater than the impacts of the known quantity, which is the school. How would you have weighed those two options?

I would have actually gone to a third scenario. And this would require having some conversations with both sides to understand how open they were to compromise. But if you step back, I mean, from a real estate perspective, Keith, it's 156 acres in Abermont County. That's worth a lot. That's a very, that's a huge asset that someone generously donated, right? And so if there was some interest in looking at other spots that had roads that were more able to handle that kind of traffic, you could potentially do, you know, 1031 exchanges, you could do a buy-selt. There's a lot of options that they could have looked at creatively, and I don't, my sense is they weren't.

And so I can envision a potential win-win situation. I mean, that's why I'd like to be on the board to help to drive those kind of things. That's the creativity that I brought into my business career. And so, anyway. Yeah, if I could just one other thing, I admire that. I think creativity piece is important. And I had a conversation with Mike Pruitt right before,

I guess it was Friday of last week, and we spoke about this because he knew this was coming on. So what was the buy-right count, density count? I don't recall. Three lots. Yeah. Okay. So we've got 100 and so much?

Well, it's 156 acres, but other 15 acres, 15 acres is developed. And the graphics I could see look like about three lots. So we're only talking about three lots, right? Yeah, that's what I saw. So from a development perspective, there's not a lot of value there. Yeah. In my opinion, right? You know, if you're looking, you know, most developers are looking for density.

Look, you can carve it up into three lots and maybe build rather expensive homes. So really, from a development perspective, there's not a lot of opportunity. opportunity there. I would disagree, actually, on that. Not a residential. Well, first of all, I'm not necessarily looking at it from a developer's perspective, right? I'm saying there's value in that land. A developer might want to buy it.

It could be an individual that could buy it. I'm just saying that there are opportunities where you could get creative and try and find win-win situation. So this conversation is exactly what you guys are going to be doing. Yeah, exactly right. Yeah, and they're tough. They're tough discussions. That's why I always say land usage, like your number one.

Because there's a lot of times not a right answer. Yeah. Right? You know, there's not, there's not a, this is not a. Well, I mean, you've got 500, 600 pissed off Dudley Mountain Road residents right now. It's not. I mean, furious is what happened. And make it personal, one cyclist.

Because I ride up Dudley Mountain. As do I. It is. It's harrowing. It is. I would rather ride on 20 than Dudley Mountain Road. Actually, if you're cyclist, maybe we should simplify this a little. I'm a cyclist, too.

We just go for a ride. Yeah. Let's just go for a ride, have a race. Yeah, but there's a rule on the ride, right? But what's talked about on the ride stays on the ride. That's right. There's a lot we're going to cover with time of constraint here. We've got to talk taxes.

We're getting the weeds here, fellas. Yeah, okay. We just kind of watching the clock, though. You know what? I'm realizing there is a lot for us to talk about. And I'd actually like to propose a debate with Fred. Three debates. First one being like September 10th or 24th at the 5th.

firehouse, maybe some of the Ruritan folks could host. Yeah, that'd be awesome. And we could do one in a, you know, maybe a couple of October. Just from an execution standpoint, doing debates in areas where they're not live stream is not the best for community engagement. If you want to do a debate on a platform where everyone can reach in real time or on demand, I'm happy to host it. But if you do a debate at the Ruritan or the firehouse and I'm not throwing shade, you're going to have 30 people show up. Well, there might be news cut. I think, yeah.

I mean, there's a secret source about what Jerry's talking about. I mean, I literally have every media outlet watching. We have two dozen questions that we haven't even gotten to and it's 11 o'clock here. And they can watch it on demand at their time. There you go. Whenever they want.

We'll do five debates in, but we'll start with three. We can also talk about this offline and strategize on the best way to do that. We have to talk, and I'm trying to keep the tempo here with the questions. What's the fiscal year, 2026 budget for Almore County? $6444 million, rough? 42, I think. $642 million, off the top of my hand? That number continues to escalate.

Explain to me how the number continues to escalate when assessments in Almar County have uptick since COVID, what? 40, 45%. There's plenty of incremental revenue there because of the assessments. The real estate tax rate just jumped, what, $0.4? We're 49.6% up. $0.4. What's the number?

49.6%. For assessments. Assessments should track the market. That's a market rate. Taxes haven't moved, but assessments have. So assessments are up, real estate tax rate is up, budget is up. How's the average Joe keeping up here? Isn't the policy from the supervisors gentrifying the community quickly?

How do we keep that from happening? What's the take on Scott go first? Tax rate? What are you going to do if you're elected with the real estate tax rate? Well, first of all, let's go back to the project, not only current state, right, because we obviously just had a big one, but, you know, you take the slides from the town hall meetings, you know, before it went to $642 million, and their, you know, expenses are projected to be higher than revenue. My goal, as I said a little earlier, is to bring, you know, that business perspective, that financial discipline, we need to hold the line. My perspective is hold the line on the spend, right? Where do you cut?

The key is, actually, there's surpluses that are out there that you could leverage, right? So I don't think you have to cut necessarily. I mean, once you get in and you can deeper and you can look at it, but right now in the short term, there's surpluses that you could leverage. But some of those surpluses can only go to certain places, right? So you've got to be a little careful about exactly how you can disperse. Yeah, you're right. I mean, the percentage, you know, 10% has to go to the bond fund, etc., etc.

But there's money there that you can work with. You're talking 642 million. dollars, right? So basically my goal is to bring financial discipline to that conversation and hold the line. And I would be fighting. I mean, I'll give you another example. This is someone that I talked to. He does small engine repair, right? And he's telling me that from a small business perspective, you know, he's got to go in inventory all his, you know, tools. Every time he gets a new tool, he has got to pay, you know, for the personal property tax. I mean, there's a lot of barriers, and that's a whole conversation we could get into when we probably don't have

time. But if we look at opportunities to enable business, I don't think we're a business-enabled county necessarily in terms of the way that we're looking at things. Right. I'm very curious of your thoughts on this. Yeah, no. Thanks for the question. It's challenging. I know that everybody is feeling to pinch with the increase in taxes. I've had lots of conversations with folks at the county about this to try to understand it more fully. And where I started was to try to understand the process and the process of actually creating the budget and what that looks like

and then also and as a business person also you know we go through audits we see audits a lot so what is the discipline that is being taken at the county to ensure that the funds are being spent appropriately and are in line with the strategic plan so I've learned a lot about it

one is I think rigor is absolutely necessary 100% agree with that and I think if you're setting a county budget and you're not looking carefully at every cent that comes in, then you're not serving your constituents well. So that's 100% really just kind of a basic given. And then you have a pressure from a guy like me that's looking for $10 million for

affordable housing. Yeah, exactly. So I think when you think about that, so I'd start with one thing, we'll get to affordable housing as that and another, and diversifying the tax base. I think the other piece of it is, you know, when you look at the four cents, to your question, what do you cut, right? The four cents went to schools, to affordable housing, and to public safety. Fire and rescue.

So those are hard things to cut, right? And part of the reason that that money is being increased is because there are federal funding cuts that they're having to adjust to, right? And over time, they're going to time out. So in 2021, I believe that we, there was somewhere since 2021, we fired somewhere around 90 or 95 firemen. And those are being funded by safer grants. And those safer grants will time out.

So the county has to figure out a way to where. work within this volatile and ever-changing environment. That's called economic development. Yeah, and so moving on to economic development. That's what happened. So that's exactly right. So when you think about, we've talked a lot about capacity for housing, et cetera, I think finding ways to diversify the income so that it's not just from property taxes, but

it's also from commercial areas, I think, is the way to go. Well, you guys are around 30%. My poor little county is not even hit 10% in Fulvana County. So our... Almore County taxes tied to business is 12%. And Almore County is trying to get it to 17%. That was the economic development director

on this set told us it was 12% and they want to get it to 17%. That's a huge swing, 5%. It is a huge swing. And there's a lot of differences right now in economic development at the county. Very different than it has been over the past 10 years or even the last three years or so.

There's been a major change. I just want to mention one other thing about rigor related to taxes. And it doesn't come up a lot, but it's something that's important to take a look at. And that's the Strategic Plan Execution and Accountability Report, or the Speer Report. So what the county does, after they complete the work on the budget, is every year annually, they use that Spear Report, which actually takes a look at their priorities and combines it and looks at how they're doing and how their funding is working along those lines.

So that's a really helpful, I think. Can I ask point of questions that are, you know, how? help us with time. If you're elected Scott Smith, will you raise the real estate tax rate in the four years that you're on the dais? Will you vote to raise the real estate tax rate? I'm opposed to putting more squeeze on people. I mean, let me just give you a quick example. Like Mr. Johnson's like about a mile for me as the crow flies, right? He's on land that he inherited from his grandfather. He's only 70-something years old. There's a lot of people that know I don't want to raise taxes. I want to be more efficient with the taxes that we have.

So you're a hard-go. Yeah, but there's even nuances to it, right? It's not just raising taxes because Keith brought up the rising assessments, right? So the costs are going to go up no matter what. There's a lot of people. Like Vivian, who was at Esmont, you know, in the town hall meeting, that I sat fairly close to her, and she starts going through all the things that are, you know, her rent, her home insurance or groceries, I mean, people, there's a whole set of people that are

Pricing out people that have been here for a lot of time. Forever, forever. Yeah. You're pricing out the people that serve us. That's right. And you're pushing them for, and they're going to have to go farther and farther out. We joke around that. You used to drive to qualify.

I think now you fly to qualify. But I want to put some context. Can we get Fred's answer on that if he's elected, the real estate tax rate? Would you vote yes to raise it or no to if you're elected in four years? I would have to think about it. I would not actually say yes or no. I think if you do say a hard yes or a hard no, it's short-sighted and you're not taking into consideration all the variables that are currently out there.

I'm going to ask a question that should be an easy yes or no question, but I'm going to frame it a little bit. So as the chair of the Piedmont Community Land Trust, 80% AMI right now for two people is a little over $80,000, right? The maximum amount that that 80% AMI buyer can buy, the value of a home is $275. Almar County, you can't buy anything for under $475. So there's a $200,000 shortfall that as the land trust, we go out and beg for money.

So we'll be in front of you guys begging for money. But one of the things that I think could help this housing question is turning red tape into green tape. I talk about this all the time on the show, right? It takes forever to get a project approved, even buy-right stuff. So will you gentlemen be willing to look at that And reduce that down instead of years to go back to months Tell the story all the time The first development I did

Took me six months from acquisition To put a bulldozer in a job site I'm part of one right now that's in year eight And we haven't even put a bulldoze on the job site The bottom line is that goes to the 475 Absolutely So would you be willing to reduce red tape into green tape Help projects that are by right

gone through the process already. Of course. Not getting hung up. But there's important because it's not happening. Yeah, so there's nuances. This is really big. I mean, this talks about,

this like leads back to that example, the guy that took eight years to get bays on his repair business, right? So absolutely, I'd be very focused on trying. That's what my whole background. That's what I did for 40 years, you know, in terms of helping improve efficiency in organization.

So absolutely. But I want to give like an example, like a micro example of what you're just talking about, right? I just talked to two weeks ago, runs a foundation company. And he was telling me there's a $5,000 tax on every new home that's built in Albemarle County. I'm like, what do you mean? Explain that to me.

And what he was saying was that he's one of the first things that happens or close to, you know, early laying a foundation, right? So they go out and they have to call, like the day before they want somebody to come out. So they call, a person comes out. And he said, let's say they, well, they need some changes. like, okay, can I ask them to wait, and we'll do it real quick? No. What happens is they're going to, you have to wait, you know, you fix it, and then you wait until the next day, call them again,

and then they'll show up maybe in the following day, right? That's what? Yeah. Well, that's true. That's the example that he gave me. But one of the things we talked about, back to creativity, you could get someone, like, you know, you could have people, you know, private, you know, sector folks, you know, on a residential project that you could acquire,

and they could just say, hey, can you stick around, for a couple minutes, 10 minutes. I'll fix this. The way around that is a lot of jurisdictions I do some work out west where you hire third parties. Exactly. That's what I'm saying. But that's not allowed today, right? I don't let Fred jump in here for a minute, but I want to context this real quick.

I just had a conversation yesterday with two city council members. And I'm very public. You know, the zoning is the zoning, but it's the implementation portion of it. They won't push staff to make the changes. Yeah. The thing is, the board of supervisors, you are their bosses.

Are you guys willing to push the staff to turn this red tape into green tape? So I'll share a couple of thoughts on it. I think whatever our answer is, it needs to be a realistic answer. And having been part of this for the last 35 years, in the seat as an applicant, right? I've seen the time that it takes to get something done. In order to add residential to one of our projects, it took three years, and I won't tell you how many hundreds of thousands of dollars, to get the right to actually build residential,

to support the community, affordable housing. And so the challenge that you have is that the staff is currently being leaned on. There is, if you think about it, the way to attack this. Did you say leaned on? Leaned on. The way to attack this is to think of it in really, I'd say, two or three ways. One is think about process. Second is think about staffing efficiencies.

And then the third is to think about expertise. projects that are front and center and important critically from a strategic planning standpoint in the county. So starting briefly with the process, we're going through a comprehensive plan rewrite and a zoning ordinance modernization. Both of those, one of the key factors and the key goals was to simplify it. And having read through zoning ordinances here in the past and been through that process, they were really crazy, you know, very, very complex. and it's been simplified, and so there's been a win there. So as a developer, as somebody in the community who's looking to do something to bring economic development,

whatever it is to the community, it's a simpler process. The other is through zoning ordinance modernization and thinking about that. And, you know, all the subjects we're talking about are not siloed. They're all interconnected, and I think we need to accommodate that. Well, comp plans are inspirational at best. It's the zoning that matters. It's the zoning. The one thing that I'll also add is the expedited project piece.

I'll talk about that in the minutes. Yeah, so there's some processes where I've seen the county expedite economic development process. Scott? So, you know, I have a lot of background in process. And I think, you know, just at the micro level, I can, you know, speaking for myself and what I had to go through and how many trips I had to make personally down, you know, going through a debt permitting process. it's not simplified.

It's very complex. There's a lot of gaps. Just in that, I can see tremendous opportunities for improvement. Good people in those spots, but process and staffing, and there's definitely a bunch of challenge. I can speak to that from the user perspective. It was incredibly disappointing. Yeah, I think it's also a volume question.

So the number of applications that are coming. before the county and the staffing you know it was interesting I learned that with there's six new police officers as we know that have been hired or will be hired and there were actually 12 total FTEs that have left the county so really there was a net loss of staff in FTE full-time equivalent so employees basically that have left so that was surprising to me I didn't realize that there were 12 that either had left by it usually by a turtrition and not been backfilled and the conversation I had was

how do we say that we're trying to actually expedite things? How are we trying to move things forward and make it less expensive for a developer to go through the process of the county? How are we able to do that and also cut staff? Right? So the reality of it is we need staff to do

this and I'm sure there maybe are some efficiencies within that. One solution to that is the third party solution. Yeah and we use that so one big areas as well as we should. Right. I think we're Where that's being used mostly is in building permits. Correct. Building permits right now can be reviewed by a third party,

stamped by an engineer and approved by the county. And that helps. I'm part of a national cohort that does that out in Seattle and Portland. Yeah. And they use third party. The gentleman that lays foundations, he has that, you know, concrete company. I mean, he was pretty, and we were talking residential at the time. He was pretty clear to me that's something he would love to see in Alvinan County,

doesn't. And he's the one that said it's, you know, tack $5,000 to be onto everyone. And the reason he said that, he was talking about the cost of his crew for two days. That's the cost that he was talking about. Data centers as a form of economic development. Where do you guys stand on that? Scott, do you want to take that one? Sure.

I will say, I mean, I'm tech, right? I've been around data centers for a very long time. I haven't heard anyone in all the conversations I've talked to you that has an interest in it. I mean, there are some places that you could put them and maybe keep them from away from residential areas, but I have heard a lot of pushback. So sky goal on data centers for economic development? I would represent the people of Samuel Miller, and I'm hearing that they don't want them. Right.

Yeah, I think we need to open the lens a little bit further, and yes, we would represent Samuel Miller, but we also have to be thinking about the entire county. The fact is that data centers bring significant amount of revenue to a county. You know there's an interim ordinance that says 40,000 square foot data centers can be done. The question is not so much should data centers come to the county and should we stop them from coming. If we put up a wall and say absolutely no data centers, period, I'm not sure we're being realistic. I think we need to think through the process and we need to think through environmental impacts, etc. So somewhere, you know, there's a number.

I know the Board of Supervisors a couple nights ago was talking about a 500,000 square foot data center and that being potentially done by a right. I think that's excessive, far beyond what I would recommend. What's the power that's going to take one of those days? Exactly right. Water. Yeah, exactly.

That's the more concern. Light pollution. Yeah, and there are, you know, small modular reactors that are being talked about now, things that are more sort of self-contained to help power up these data centers. That's very common. And that discussion is very common in Louisa County right now.

And now the county residents are pushing back on it. About $12 billion in Louisiana County, according to Amazon. And now Louisiana County residents have said enough is enough. Well, and people are also saying that renewable energy, we need to build solar so that we can power up data centers. But solar is not going to solve our problem with the power needs of data. No way. There's no way.

So we need to be thinking creatively about that. So would I say no to data centers? I would say where would the data center? or go first, and then I think we would have a conversation about it. So potentially opposite on this, data centers for economic development, the two candidates. How about this question? Who do you guys represent first, the Samuel Miller district, or Almore County as a whole?

Great question. That is a good question. I'll go first on that one. It would be Samuel Miller district, for sure. And I've had conversations with some of the supervisors about this issue. And so, yes, my allegiance would be the Samuel Miller district. The largest district in Almaro County and the most affluent district in Almore County, the Samuel Miller district. And the most rural district in Almaral County.

Yeah, absolutely. And I think that, you know, you can't just go into a board of supervisors meeting myopically. You can't just be thinking about I am here just to represent this. Because one person on the board of supervisors is not going to make any change. It takes the whole board to make change. So as you think through, yes, I'm representing my district. If an issue comes up and it's in my district and another board of, supervisors learned about it, I would

expect that board member to come to me and say, hey, just want you to know this is happening in your district. And that would be that sort of intercommunication and collaboration that I would expect from the other supervisors. But yes, Samuel Miller first. I think we also have to think holistically about what's good for the county

in that context. So I'd be representing Samuel Miller. But I agree with your comment about, you know, there's six folks on the book, six folks on the board, but one person, you know, particularly from a business perspective, at the board, they talk a lot about diversity, and I think they could use some diversity with a business

perspective on the board. And so if one person in those conversations, a seat at the table could make a significant difference to Fred's point, that's one vote, right? But you can have significant influence in that one position. Usually one vote matters in very tough. Yeah, particularly, I mean, it could split three, you know, it could split three, three, and that one vote makes a really big difference. So I wanted to throw that out there. Is any appetite for changing the count from six to seven or back to five? I'm not a fan of even boards at all

for that very reason. It gives a no vote one extra vote. I mean also I'm not a fan either because to be honest in some cases I think it may be used as a way to say no. Yeah. You know, being part of the seven-person planning commission, I've seen that to me at least, and this is just Fred speaking, to work more efficiently and be more representative. I'd love to talk to somebody who's an advocate for a six-person board a supervisor. Just even, yeah, I'm with you. Scott. I'd have to think about that.

I mean, you know, my question in the back of my mind is what's in the best interest of the Samuel, you know, some of the Samuel Miller folks. So, I mean, I'd have to think about it. Yeah, so simply put, if there's something that the Samuel Miller district wants, and it's a tie vote, then it's a no vote. That's right. I understand. So they lose it. I'm a fan of it because it forces the board to have a conversation. An extra vote on the board supervisors. It's not going to happen. It's not going to happen during their time.

It's not going to happen in my opinion. Yeah, that's where I was going. I don't see it as a near-term thing. That's a big. That would be creating an at-large seat. And those districts are set up based on census data. And so that's a complex. You're not going to chop the districts down.

Pointing questions for both guys. here. Point of question for Fred, how are you going to navigate being employed by UVA and representing Amore County? Oh, yeah. No, thanks for asking that question. And you know, I'll think of it in a couple different ways. One is, yes.

Because you're the largest developer in Amore County. Well, yeah, I think so. Land-O. If you think that's true, if you think about the University of Virginia, too, and you think about the University Foundation, absolutely there's a large impact there. I would say this. One is, and I don't want this to at all sound defensive.

because I don't feel defensive about it. I've been grateful to be a part of the University of Virginia Foundation. I've learned a ton, and I feel like it's prepared me for this role, to be honest with you. I have had, I bet you I could count them on either one hand or maybe two hands, times where I've felt conflicts of interest or either had real conflicts that affected my interaction with the county. I think people think it happens all the time, but it's extremely rare. And so, you know, it's really more of a benefit to have been part of that. And whenever I will say this, and hopefully this goes without saying, because it's a question about integrity,

if there's ever a whiff of a potential conflict, I will recuse myself. And anybody can look at my record and see that I've done that. I've had a couple of issues or a couple of situations where applicants have come forward, and I've been like, ah, this one feels like it might potentially be a conflict. And if that happens, I'll go to the county attorney, and I'll say, what do you think? And I'll get his input and I'll actually get that in writing and then I'll make a determination. And obviously if he

says, yeah, I'd recommend against it, I will not be part of it. So there's no question that that is the case. And again, you can check my record. What it has done though, which is really interesting, is it's helped me in terms of several ways. One is resilience.

So resilient together. I've been part of the conversations between the city, the county, and the university on that. Another one would be affordable housing, the initiative that we're working on right now, learning more about that and being part of the community there. There are numerous examples that I could give. I won't ramble on, but where I've been through the process of learning as part of this, and I really would commit to retaining as a supervisor the relationships, the strong relationships with the city, the county, and the university, and trying to strengthen them even further. I had a conversation with our mayor, Juan Wade, we had coffee a couple weeks ago, and we talked about this,

and we talked about how those relationships are becoming stronger. And one of the ways that is really, and this is my last point, really a tangible way, is a group called Lutepec, which is the Land Use Environmental Planning Committee. And I'm a part of that, and so is the city, so is the county, so is the Rivana Water and Sewer Authority. And we all come together, and we talk about, issues that impact all three or four, I guess it's five now, of those groups.

And it's a spinoff of the original three-party agreement that the city, the county, and the university had. So I find it as a, you know, a benefit, actually. Point a question for Scott. Scott Smith, you're new to the area. Yep. Well, five years. What's your response to the folks saying five years is not enough of time in the area

to have a seat on the board of supervisors? So I would say that... Is that some pushback I'm hearing? I heard the pushback on Fred with the UVA Foundation. Sure. I asked to direct to him. Same kind of pushback I hear for you. So I think what you need to look at is what will I bring to the table?

I mean, I made a choice to move here five years ago, fell in love with a rural area. They have been an election official, you know, gotten engaged in the community, Samaritan's purse. You know, it's exciting. But I think the bigger thing is how often do you get someone that's been very successful in the high-tech business, the most transformative business of our century that's willing to spend their time, basically take a full-time job at essentially, you know, nothing, you know, getting paid to commit to serve this community for four years? And that business perspective and the financial discipline that I would bring to bear, I think is priceless that could be added to the board. So from my perspective, to have two business background folks running for this seat is a good thing, right?

Enterprise software, who uses a lot of enterprise software, governments, right? Yeah. Any large entity. Yeah. So you bring a skill set to that. And process. And process. This is big.

Land use is the number one thing, right? You know, some land use experience on Fred's side. So I'm encouraged that you're going to try to bring some business thinking to the Board of Supervisors. One who deals with them for 40 years, it is very difficult to change that ship. It is an aircraft carrier, right? If you put it in neutral, it'll drift for a very long period of time. So I wish you, gentlemen, the best of luck. This was an awesome conversation.

I mean, I got two dozen comments from viewers and listeners and voters that we didn't get to. We didn't talk about learning from the new zoning ordinance debacle in Charlottesville to make sure it doesn't happen in Almaro County. We didn't get to meals tax, lodging tax. We didn't get to, I mean, so much we didn't get to. And we went 15 minutes over. So I'll throw this on the table. This is not a debate. This is a conversation.

If you two ever want to come back and address some of those questions on my show, seats are always available. I think it's important that we continue having a. direct dialogue, a debate format's a little bit different, obviously. It should be a debate format with organized times, is what I would suggest. But you guys killed it. I want to say this. You guys are willing to put yourself out there at a time where you could say that our country and our community is more divided than ever to do a job where half the people are going

to hate what you're voting on, and the other half are not even going to know what's going on or care about it. and you're going to do it for next to no money, well below minimum wage. The anti-entrepreneur in a lot of ways is working in government. And I respect both of you for pursuit of civic engagement and trying to leave your community in a better position than when you first arrived. And that's your mission here. That's why both you guys are both motivated by that.

So I respect both of you guys. Thank you for joining us on this show. Thank you for the time. Thank you. It takes a lot of guts to sit in that seat, so well done. Yeah, for the print, radio, and television watching the program, feel free to source the show for any content you want to create for your news cycles. For the viewers and listeners that we did not get to your comments, the voters,

I apologize, we've run out of time. The show is going to be archived in totality, wherever you get your social media or podcasting platform, literally on every single one of them right now. That's the Friday edition of Real Talk with Keith Smith. The I Love Sevo Show, guys, is up at 1230. Thank you for joining us so long. Thank you, gentlemen.

Thank you. Appreciate it. Thank you. Thanks for your service. Oh, thank you. That is incredible. Thanks, Fred. Yeah, you too.

Great job. Thank you. Thank you, Jerry. Thank you, Jerry. Thank you.