The I Love CVille Show With Jerry Miller! - Jay Domenic, John Ralston & Woody Fincham Joined Keith & Jerry On "Real Talk With Keith Smith!"

Episode Date: August 30, 2024

Jay Domenic, Mortgage Loan Officer at Towne Mortgage, John Ralston, Associate Attorney at Ralston Law Group, and Woody Fincham, Owner of Fincham & Associates, Inc., joined Keith Smith & Jerry Miller on “Real Talk With Keith Smith” powered by YES Realty Partners and Yonna Smith! “Real Talk” airs every Wednesday and Friday from 10:15 am – 11 am on The I Love CVille Network! “Real Talk With Keith Smith” is presented by Charlottesville Settlement Company, LLC, El Mariachi Mexican Bar & Grill, Fincham & Associates, Inc., Free Enterprise Forum, Intrastate Service Co, Pearl Certification and YES Realty Partners.

Thank you kindly for joining us on Real Talk with Keith Smith. It's great to connect with you guys through the I Love Seville Network on a show that is presented by the Who's Who of real estate in Charlottesville, Albemarle County, and Central Virginia. You see the businesses on screen. You see them on the Partners tab on Real Talk with Keith Smith. These are the trusted advisors that Keith, in his, what, nearly 40 years of being in the real estate business has personally vetted and suggests you, the public, utilize on your path to closing. If you have questions today, put them in the feed. We will relay them live on air to a panel of experts. The program live all over your phone and wherever you get your podcasting and social media

content judah wickhow if we can go to the studio camera and then if we can go to a four shot as we welcome our panel of virtuosos and experts extraordinaire keith smith good friday morning so i was just thinking 40 years that there's a new thing i'm wearing a gray suit supposedly the gray hair and the gray suit blends in according according to my sister, who's the interior decorator. Just saying. I think it looks great, Keith Smith. There you go. You got in the game in 87, technically 37 years. I'm aging you a bit, but nearly 40 years has a nice ring to it. Well, when you reach a certain age, aging people a bit is probably not a good thing. Let's let's go the opposite direction i'm excited about today you know we've got a little bit of a round table uh discussion here we're going to kind of chat a

little bit about um some questions that i've received in reference to let's call it the decoupling of commissions from the mls and you know what are these gentlemen seeing in their world and then ask some questions for the feed. But before we do that, why don't we give John an opportunity to introduce him real quick. John, give us the quick flip book of who you are, where you're from, and whatever you want to do without getting ourselves too much in legal trouble. Sure.

Thank you, Keith. Well, I was born and raised in Charlottesville, so this is my hometown. Got admitted to the bar in 2015, came back to Charlottesville, and just been playing along with real estate and raising my family. So do you do things other than real estate, right? I've done, let's say, business incorporation, business purchases, landlord-tenant, wills and trusts. You do the trust for a very difficult client, right? Only the most difficult. Only the most difficult.

Only the most difficult. You just recently knocked the trust out for Yonah and I, so thank you very much. So you do commercial as far as leases go? Yes, sir. Okay. You do a lot of real estate closings? Yes. Bread and butter, primarily just commercial residential every day.

Fantastic. Do you enjoy your job? No comment. Yes, I do. Talk to us about what a day-to-day looks like for you. Increasingly it's just on the phone putting out fires, trying to figure out a way to get past an impasse or if there's a title defect just trying to research it figure out there's a way to kick it out, or I wouldn't call it like an alternative, but just find some type of deal or agreement about how to handle something. So, you know, I would say when it started, it was 80% technical, 20% on the phone, and

now it's switched to really just 80% on the phone, talking about the technical and how to bypass it. And why is that? Why is that, John? Well, because I would say now it's really who's on the other side, knowing the parties, knowing the realtors, knowing the attorneys or the settlement agents, and being able to pick them up and say, look, I'm not going to try to sneak something past you.

I guess the best way I could say is there's some trust between the parties, and that helps. That eases a lot of tension because you can say, all right, well, turning on the other side, I know them, we'll work it out. And we do. Before we get into some questions, and Jay, I'd love you to jump in on this,

transactions seem to be coming more difficult, right? Your 80-20 rule got reversed. How we met, and I'll leave the specifics out of it, but we met with helping a client that the brother, excuse me, the daughter, let me get this straight, I apologize. The sister was divorcing the brother. This was a crazy deal. The sister was married to the brother. That's super crazy. Well, it's West Virginia. I mean, I'm sorry. But she was suing her brother to possession

of the house. And that was, I will tell you, nearly 40 years of doing this, that was probably the most difficult transaction we did. And thank you for walking us through that. But Jay, are deals getting harder to do now? I think some of the deals have gotten harder to do because people have been forced to stretch. When you're really trying to stretch the guidelines and stretch the qualifying and stuff like that, you don't leave much room for error. And the mortgage guidelines are really a minefield of little things that could trip you up at any time if you aren't careful

and you don't know them. But there's always something that's outside the norm. But I find that if people were trying to really stretch the absolute limit of their qualifying, then you're asking for some trouble perhaps and some difficulty. Because if something doesn't happen, like I'm hourly pay, and then I didn't have PTO, so I took a week off of work, that changes your income. And now maybe you don't qualify if you're walking that tightrope from a qualifying perspective. At some point, I'm sure Jerry's going to ask you where interest rates are going. I think everyone wants to know that. Everyone wants to know what the Fed's going to do in the September meeting.

Everyone wants to know where rates are going to go after the election. I think we all find it a bit curious that we're going to have a rate cut right before the election, but this is not a politics show. Very curious to see if Q1, Q2, if the rates are going to get into the fives, all those questions. But before we do, I want to throw this to Jay. It's a very open-ended question. How do you characterize the market today? Balanced, healthy, seller one-sided, buyer one-sided. How do you characterize it?

I think it's coming into balance a little bit more. We're coming out of a really strong seller's market. But I'm starting to see where there are some price decreases that may be partly due to people thinking the market is is what it's not so they're overestimating the value of their homes but I think it's all going to come down to the way the inventory comes in if the inventory increases the rates come down I think it's going to remain a slight seller's market for a while. Let me just throw that prediction out there.

But it is getting a little more balanced. I have some people who are negotiating closing costs. They're negotiating. They're getting home inspections done, which for a while wasn't even something you could put into a contract. I've had properties go under contract that have a home sale contingency, which is something you wouldn't even dare try a year or two ago so yes I think it's working back into balance a little bit but I think we've got a ways to go it's gonna be a slight seller's market for a little while just because of inventory Neil Williamson the

president the free enterprise forum watching the program TV station down the street watching the program as we speak John I'm gonna throw the same question to you as I give props to Jason Howard watching the program as we speak. John, I'm going to throw the same question to you as I give props to Jason. Howard watching the program. Kevin Sullivan, good Friday morning to you. Alex Erpey, Gary Palmer, the broker watching the program. Lonnie Murray, Andre Xavier, Lisa Lawrence, Brittany Gray. You got the who's who of real estate watching the program.

I'm seeing agents from Keller Williams, from Nest, from Real Estate 3, from Long & Foster, and investors like Tripp Stewart, Seth Liske, watching the program as we speak. Same question for you. How do you characterize the market today? How's your deal flow? Well, it's a little skewed for me because during COVID, it was just volume, volume, volume. Well, now it may not be the same direct volume, but virtually every other deal feels complicated. So it's, you know, whereas

it was period client experience, I think it's a little stressed because it does seem like they have to fight to find the right home or they've done multiple deals that they've broken through. It takes a little, I don't want to say work to get to the table, but they are working things out like closing costs, like Jay is. They're trying to be creative. And just what's left on the market for right now in terms of inventory. So this is when the pros show up, right?

This is this kind of market. When a little bit later in the show, when we can bring Woody on, I'm going to take a deeper dive into the market because i believe um certain micro markets that buyer needle is starting to go towards buyer and we'll share some altos research that i belong to to kind of break down a couple of zip codes on what was going on there but i because i know you got to jump and you've got to do some closings. I do want to ask this one question, and I'm going to paraphrase, because I've been asked a couple of different

versions of this. So this is on this decoupling question, right? So for those who may be watching that may not up to speed on decoupling, what has happened now is the MLS precludes from putting in how much the buyer broker compensation is of anything. It's always been negotiable, right? We won't rehash the whole lawsuit at this point.

But there was a couple specific questions, and it revolves around this one premise, that if I have a buyer broker agreement that, say, is 2%, which is making up numbers for the sake of a talk show that is 2% but the seller is paying 3% there's a 1% differential let's say the contract has in it that it's a 3% buyer broker what happens with that 1% am I as a buyer broke to me it's coming to the buyer broker can I give that 1% as a seller credit from from the real estate from the buyer broker to help them pay closing costs so in you know a five hundred thousand dollar deal it'd be five thousand dollars or whatever the the math turns out can i do that legally can i do that from a loan perspective if so what does that look like and how do I navigate that without any of us going to jail?

I think since I've mentioned jail, we'll start with the legal. Of course. Everyone looked at me really quickly. Well, to start, there's no case law. There's no statute. There's no regulation I can think of that would stop or prohibit that. So to give the cop-out attorney answer, it depends. In my mind, where my mind goes... You say maybe yes, maybe no yes.

No, no, no. I appreciate his position. Let him go here. I'm very curious of this. Well, at least in my mind, where it goes to is transparency. Are the parties aware? Did they have the information on hand to make an informed decision? And by that, I mean really the seller. At least in my mind, the deciding factor is the seller because the commission comes out of their proceeds. So if a buyer broker comes and says, look, I would like my 1% to go to the purchaser to help them with closing costs,

also make sure they can afford this purchase, and they say yes. I don't see any issue with that, but the fact of the matter is, are they aware of that? So it has to be in the contract. Well, contract, there just has to be some way, whether it's a dialogue, contract, or otherwise. I mean, preferably contract, but I know with deals it can be fluid, but just at the end of the day, did seller know, or have reason to know, and could they make an informed choice about it?

Because, and there's historically been, and I'll get myself into trouble regularly here, John, so that you know this. I'm going to say this in advance. You know, historically, we in the real estate world have been told, well, you can't put this stuff in a contract, right? And I've never prescribed that at all. I think the theory is they have, there's three separate agreements, right? There's an agreement that I have with the buyer broker.

There's an agreement Jay has with the listing, and then there's the contract. From my perspective, and I stayed at a Holiday Inn or whatever it was. It's about the best, closest I got to anything legal. But the place to consolidate all that is in the contract. Am I looking at this right? Well, I don't disagree. But granted, most of the time I'm not the one who has to write the contract. By the time I get it, it's too late.

You're the one that's dealing with it, though. Yeah, by the time I get the contract, it's too late. So that's why I kind of leave open to discussion, because I know that would come up. But whether it's in the contract or somewhere in writing, obviously, I put value to that. But, Jay, from your world, it's got to be in writing somewhere for that to happen, right? It does have to be. If that 1% is out there floating around, it just can't appear all of a sudden as a cash credit or something like that. It has to be written somewhere so that we

know where that's coming from. It has to appear on the closing disclosure. So what's going to be important with that is how it's written in the contract. So if you say, I'm getting 3%, but I'm giving 1% to my buyer to pay for their closing costs, that's allowed. Okay? It can be written that way. You're an interested party to the transaction from a lender standpoint. So there are limitations on how much interested parties can contribute, sellers, realtors, builders, whomever. But so if we take a for instance where somebody's say they're putting a minimum down payment 3% or 5% on a conventional loan, they're limited to 3% of the sale price in interested party contributions. If you are contributing 1% that means that the seller can't pay another 3, that means the seller can only pay another 2. So that's where it makes the difference. If you are contributing 1%, that means that the seller can't pay another three.

That means the seller can only pay another two. So that's where it makes the difference. If it's written as seller will pay by our agent fee up to 1% or something like that. But that has to be in other terms in our current contract, not in the concession portion of the contract, which is important. Right. But as long as it's written, it's important to differentiate the seller can pay the buyer agent fee. Okay?

So that's... Thank you for saying that. We have comments coming in from people in the game if you want me to relay their perspective. Just let me get this out real quick. So that's a common misconception out there that unless you tell me otherwise, almost every loan product allows this to happen, correct? Yes. They've always allowed that to happen. They've always allowed, well, they've allowed the seller to pay it. They've allowed the buyer to pay it with the exception of VA. VA previously hadn't allowed this. But they changed that, right? They changed that. They have a temporary variance in there.

So it's not written in stone yet, but it's legit now. You can write a contract on it. But you can have the seller pay the buyer agent fee, the buyer can pay the buyer agent fee. Of course, if the buyer's paying it, then I need to know because that could affect their qualifying. So

it has to be in other terms. It has to be spelled out from your perspective, however that language is, and speak to your broker. If you're a in other terms, has to be spelled out from your perspective, however that language is, and speak to your broker, if you're a real estate agent, they'll help you with that. But there has to be the language in it. You need it as a closing agent because it tells you how to disperse money. And to include VA, this is allowable by all the lending mechanisms. Michael Guthrie, watching the program. We're going to get to Michael's comments here in a matter of moments. Andre Xavier, we're going to get to your comments as well.

He says, Keith, you cannot take more than you negotiated on your exclusive right to represent agreement. Thank you, Michael, for doing that, because that's my follow-up question to that. So thank you. We're going to that because that's my follow-up question to that. So thank you. We're going to jump into that in a minute. He also says some folks say we will see a five in front of the interest rate before the end of 2024. Then he gives Jay Dominick some props on the program.

And he says in regards to the topic the panel is talking about, you would ask the seller to pay your 2% and then have the buyer in the contract ask for the other 1% for closing costs. Well, to Michael's comment, this is the slippery slope, right? So the buyer-broker agreement, I can't get paid any more than what I've agreed to on that. So I'm not looking to get paid any more. I'm looking for that money to be dispersed to my buyer as a concession to help them with closing. Otherwise, what happens with the 1%, Michael, right? It either, because if I have a listing agreement that's broken down this way, where does that extra 1% go? And look,

you know, I'll just say this publicly out there. You know, the documents that VA realtors created, I think, made this more confusing than less confusing. If I was the seller, I'd want to keep the 1%. It depends on what your listing agreement says. Well, if you're... Depends on what your listing agreement says. If you have a listing agreement with seller's representation, right, wouldn't you caveat in that listing agreement if the buyer broker has less than 3%, that stays with me. That's how I would do it. Yeah. I mean, that would be the easiest way. I agree 100%.

Yeah. 100%. But what if it's not? Then I would say the selling agent is not offering the best counsel to their client. The seller's agent should be saying this counsel to their client. It's not always 3%. You need to hedge in case it's not 3%. So, John, I get that.

And you're a seasoned... I mean, I have 24 doors, but that's what I would do. Yeah. But the reality of it is is some of these listing agreements may not have that in there. Well, the listing agreement's a stock document that can be massaged.

I understand that. But from your perspective, what happens with that 1% if it doesn't have it outlined in the thing? Well, my position is that, well, it's still the seller's money. That's one. Going back to what I said,

I think it's kind of a decision for the seller. Like if they want to retain that one purchase cent, they can do so. If they want to help the purchaser along, they can do so. I mean, within limits, obviously, but that's going back to, did they know about that choice or that distinction between the listing, what they agreed to on the listing versus the buyer broker agreement? And that's why I think it's just really a question of transparency. Right. Could they make that choice, an informed choice? Well said.

Because it's their money at the end of the day. The seller, before contract goes pending, can't the seller's representative on behalf of the seller ask the question, what is the commission in this deal for buyer broker? Well, that's how this, if I understand the question correctly, that's how this is kind of moving forward, right? We're going to have a couple of listings happen. We'll get phone calls. We'll share with what our seller is offering as a buyer broker. They're going to ultimately put this into the contract. And, you know, I've been. David Villa is watching the program.

David, I believe you're in the game. I think he's in the game. He's a realtor. He says, I believe I don't have to share my buyer agreement with the seller. That's between me and my client. I agree. You agree with that? 100%. 100%.

So you don't think the seller has a right to say, what's the commission that is being allocated to the representative that's looking at buying my house? They can ask any question they want, but they are not party to that particular contract. That's the reason the statement I made earlier. The seller is going to find out anyway. The statement I made earlier is the contract of purchase is where these things come together. Jay Dominick, do you want to jump in on this? I see the wheels turning over there,

Jay Dominick. Well, I've had umpteen conversations about this, and I have my own opinions on it and stuff like that, but I think the key is going to be how that listing agreement is written. This doesn't affect me at all, except how it affects the borrower. But in my mind, I'm thinking, if I get a listing agreement, it says, okay,

you agree to pay me as a listing agent 6%, for instance, and we will offer up to 3% towards a buyer broker to pay their fee, then what happens when the 2% comes in? I've got a buyer broker fee and it's only 2%. There's that 1% floating around there. In my mind... Folks, this could be a lot of money. 1% on a million-dollar transaction. We're talking $10,000 here.

Right. What's the median purchase price in the city of Charlottesville? What's the median over five bills now, right? We'll talk about this a little bit later, but for up to the first eight months of this year, it's $480,000. $480,000 in Charlottesville. No, no, no.

That's the full car. We're talking $5,000 here. We're not talking about insignificant amounts of money, but I'm thinking, like, you know, if I was listing a property as a listing agent, I might have that conversation with them and say, hey, we're going to offer up to 3%. If somebody comes in with 2%, then this will happen. And to your point, Jerry, then that should be spelled out. In the contract.

Well, in your listing agreement. The listing agreement. And then if 2% comes in, if you don't spell that out, then in my mind, you've listed the house for 6% with agreement to pay up to 3% towards a buyer agent fee. If that 3% becomes 2%, there's nothing saying that now 4% doesn't go to the listing agent. Because when we sold our house, we used the fabulous team of Keith and Yonah Smith to

sell our house in Glenmore. And when we sold our house, it was very buttoned up. Very clear. It was very clear. So back to what John said. And John, we didn't have this conversation, and it's interesting because you teamed into it. I've been talking about the six things for a real estate. John, welcome to Real Talk on Keith Smith right here.

And by the way, if you've got something to say, just jump in. Please. And if you think Smith is full, you know what, you tell me. And we've got to get Woody in the mix, too. We'll get Woody here in a minute. And comments are coming in fast. So it's location, price, features, condition, timing. And I've been saying this for a year, and it's like my kids, they don't want to hear me no more.

Who's on the other side matters, right? And to your point, it matters. But right now, this is when the pros show up. A credit to my wife, Yona Smith. Love you, Yona. When we were at the Reese Media CEO event this time last year, I'm going to be there next week speaking again, she turned to me and said,

you know who this is going to be hardest on? Listing agents. Not buyers. It's going to be listing agents. And she's right, because your listing agreement needs to be wired tight about what happens under these intervals. And again, if you're a real estate agent out there,

don't listen to me. Talk to your broker. Your broker's the one that's going to guide you through this. Beth Mark makes that point right there. God, comments are coming in fast here. Or excuse me, Candice Vanderlin of the fabulous Yes Realty Partners team. Biggest recommendation is for all realtors

to know and understand what their brokerage is requiring and go to CAR and get the resources and answers you may not be getting elsewhere. All realtors should be aware of these practices, and there's a ton of education available. She also says, that John Ralston guy, he's a rock star. Candace giving John some props over here on the talk show. You want a problem solved, call John. This from Mr. Michael Guthrie. In a standard listing agreement, if the offer to the buyer is 3% and the agent can only get 2%,

the listing agreement could keep the other 1% that does not go to the buyer's agent. Correct. But I think that document needs a bunch of tightening up, my hope is vr eventually is going to do that uh but you know what we're counseling our folks is is you know write out the scenarios in the listing agreement if it should be if if the contract amount is less than what the listing is it goes back to the seller andre xavier's talking you're allowed to use it right that's that's what something you'd have to add in. But I agree with Michael. He's basically saying the same thing.

Absence any kind of clarification on what that extra amount. It belongs to the listing agent is my mind. I agreed to list the house and sell it for 6%. So now you're saying

if you don't change the language and edit that I as the listing broker get paid an extra point instead of that that's the way I view it now like I say I don't have to dabble in this I just have to see how it ends up on paper for my borrowers but I look I've heard a lot of talk about it but but if you list a house for six percent okay then you're saying I will list a house for 6%, okay, then you're saying I will list your house and pay a buyer agent whatever, up to 3%. But if it becomes less, I still am getting 6%. How do you feel?

John's hanging his head. Oh, you wish he never showed up. No, no, no. I think he's enjoying it. Is it time for me to leave yet? I think he's enjoying this. Well, he and me to leave yet? I think he's enjoying this. Well, he and I have had a bunch of debates, so I... John's job is to hedge risk,

and that's what he's basically doing here with his commentary. Is that not what you're doing here? Yeah, but it's just in the course of a transaction, I mean, it just really depends on who you're working with, because I know with your bank, you may want to see, okay, what happened to that commission, and we need to get that charted out and in writing somewhere i think most banks would ask that yeah i mean i can think of one of two who may not catch it but um i guess in my mind it's going to come down the conversation

between the parties and being able to hash out because at the end of the day if there's something you can't approve the deal goes nowhere like if you can't if you're not comfortable lending on it because of how this commission is shown out or negotiated out well then the parties have to figure it out or they don't so it's kind of like that's the lender or at least your position that's kind of where it you know hits a brick wall either the parties work it out or they don't, or the loan's not going to go forward. So I, in that sense, it's just, everyone's kind of going to be forced to talk about it even if they don't want to. This is why number six is who's part of this transaction.

John Ralston needs to come back to the show. Multiple people are saying John Ralston needs to come back to the show. I think you add good color to the show. Oh, thank you. The closing attorney perspective. So we're going to swap you out with Woody, but before you get up, is there anything you want to add to this topic from your perspective? Sounds like you can scoop up some business here too, John, if you want to scoop up some business. You've got a boatload of realtors watching you here. Any sage advice for anybody on my side of the fence doing business here?

Well, I mean, not trying to beat a dead horse, but at least from the attorney perspective or the settlement perspective, I find like 90% of the issues are just cleared. If someone picks up the phone and just talks about it, and I think most, if not all realtors even settlement agents and banks want to see their client get the transaction and 99 of the time i find that's true if people can just get on the phone talk it out it will more than often than not work itself out some way you know i would say the time that it blows up due to just a difference

in opinion or different attitude, it's very rare. It's not impossible, but I think most people keep their eye on the prize. Before you jump out and Jay chime in, why is it so difficult for people to have a conversation? I don't understand that. Cell phones and social media have made conversations, actual conversations, work. Yeah. That might be the answer. Texting and social media has made talking work, which stinks.

I will tell you, in order to navigate where we are in real estate right now, you've got to have conversation with folks. You've got to pick up the phone and say, Jay, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You know, what can my client do? John, this is the brick wall that we hit. What's our solutions here and how we can communicate? And sometimes I find it best that for real estate agents, sometimes get the hell out of the way

and let you guys, the two attorneys or two closing agents, get in the middle of it, particularly if it's some areas that we don't have expertise in. But speaking of expertise, we're going to slide in Woody. How'd you like that segue, huh? That was very nice. John, you did a hell of a job, dude. Appreciate it. John, thank you.

Well done. You're welcome back anytime, my friend. Well done. This is coming from Andre Xavier on rates. This is actually, I mean, see you, John. You have a good one. Thank you, John. He said, I just had a friend lock in a 5.67% 30-year conventional, 10% down, 800-plus credit score.

That's it, right. 800-plus credit score. 800-plus credit score. I was locked in yesterday, 5.67%. No points purchased. You see anything like that? No. That's a unicorn. Yeah.

Okay, what is the best you've seen so far? Well, we were talking in a meeting yesterday where we were saying we should start reaching out to our veteran borrowers because they have the most streamlined refinance process. And we were talking about stuff in the five and three-quarter type of range for those types of refinances. So, yeah. But I can tell you this. While you're doing that, why does credit score matter? Credit scores matter because that's what drives the bus for program eligibility, for interest rates, for mortgage insurance rates. That's a big one.

I mean, that's where it matters. It can garner you some extra flexibility in the automated underranked systems. So if I'm looking to get a debt-to-income ratio of 49%, if my credit score is 620, that latitude might not be granted to you. Yeah, the GSEs definitely look at credit now more than look at collateral on residential mortgages. Lyle Radke, who's basically the chief appraiser at Fannie Mae, often, when he's speaking at conferences,

reminds appraisers of that all the time. You know, the appraisal is a part of the process, but they care more about that credit rating than they care about the collateral anymore. So while Jay is looking up rates there, you were listening to this conversation. Yeah. From your perspective, talk about, you know, appraisal with the decoupling. What are you seeing? What should we be doing as real estate pros to make your job a little bit easier

to get through the process? So what are you seeing out there and what best advice can you give? Best practice and best advice. We've only got a few minutes here. So I guess the first place to start is that I sit on the car board and because of this, I'm speaking on my own behalf. I'm not speaking on behalf of the car board, so I don't want anyone to misunderstand what I'm saying.

But from an appraisal point of view, it's super important that the message and the education get out there to the agents, that they understand that concessions and commissions are two completely different things. We're seeing a lot of MLSs across the country that are conflating the things, and agents are wanting to report the buyer's broker's compensation to concessions, and they should not be reported that way. They're two different things. What's going to end up happening inadvertently if they do this is when an appraiser uses that as a future comparable sale on an appraisal report, they're going to end up having double dipped on cash equivalency because an appraiser has to adjust out cash equivalency when they're

using a comp. What that means is that if they're paying 3% in concessions and then 3% in commissions, then the only thing that should really be adjusted for is that 3% of concessions. But if the agents are reporting them as commissions, some appraisers are going to end up taking that information and saying, okay, it's actually a 6% adjustment. So where it ends up, when we were talking earlier, where it ends up in the contract is important, correct? Absolutely. So there's a provision in the new contract about concessions. Concessions need to be there.

By the way, if you use the current form, you've got to scratch out a few things because it talks about MLS, but talk to your broker about that. But if the buyer's agent's compensation that the seller is offering has to be in other terms and or a separate document that's attached to it. Yeah, it would be great if we could be transparent on that issue and have it listed out and itemized. But if it's done that way, then the only thing you're looking at is the concession, not the commission. Yeah, so the other thing is a lot of the MLSs are taking the concession field out of the MLS. And the problem with that is that now we have to call all of the agents and get that information.

And that makes a heavy burden on the agents and a heavy burden on the appraisers. But if it's in the contract and you see the contract, it's there. Well, the other appraisers that will use that in the future as a comparable sale don't have access to that. So it would be nice if there would be some way for the MLSs to come to some type of decision where they can continue to report the concessions. But a lot of them are saying, we're not going to do it because agents are going to report the commissions as concessions,

and we don't want that track on the MLS anymore. It's a messy situation. This is a mess. I've read the settlement. That is never going to happen. That's not going to happen. Your colleague in the appraisal game, I believe, is it John Copulus? Yeah, John Copulus, yeah.

He says, this is supposed to be done for the consumer, right? Your colleague in the appraisal game, I believe, is it John Copulus? Yeah, John Copulus, yeah. Yeah. He says this is supposed to be done for the consumer, right? So now a great lister and a great buyer's agent can potentially get 7% or 8% between them. What's going on here? I don't necessarily think that's the case. that we were talking about earlier, that if in the listing agreement it is not specified what would happen with any residual, then I think it's been agreed to. It goes to the listing agent if the language isn't changed in the contract.

The transactions you and I have done was very clear where it went. It was all clear. But to add a little bit of flavor to that, it could conceivably the listing agent if done a certain way could actually end up with a little more right and that's I think that's what he's pointing at yeah mr. Michael Guthrie think of it this way if the seller agrees to pay a listing

broker a certain compensation and someone comes unrepresented, unless changed in writing, the listing agent is entitled to the entire compensation noted in the listing agreement. Correct, except the new, I'll push back a little bit, the new listing agreement does have an unrepresented portion of it, which speaks to that, how that process works. And some agents are charging more for unrepresented buyers because it's more work.

It's more work. Jay, Dominic, the wheels are turning over there. Where do you want to go? You were looking something up. Well, I was just going to get some stuff with a discussion about interest rates. So, you know, I track mortgage markets throughout the day, and the one site that I track

does polling daily, and they've got the average interest rate at 6 and 3-8, okay, which falls in line with the Freddie Mac. So just under 6 and a half. Right. Okay. And that falls in line with the –

What's your credit score got to be on that? I'm sorry? What's your credit score got to be on that? That's an average. Got it. So 6-something. Yes, yes. But the same thing goes for Freddie Mac, which has close to six and three-eighths too.

They publish an average interest rate. So that's really what people should be thinking of. I tell people all the time, it's like look, I'm going to do a lot of work for you. If you want to find the absolute lowest rate in the world, then get on the Internet and do it and maybe it will work out for you. But you're not going to get my representation. You're not going to get my name on a preapproval letter. And some places won't even take an Internet preapproval letter. A lot of places. We will very much so encourage our sellers to reconsider an offer if it's if it's from an internet provider because to the point that because they're giving our pre approval

letters out like Halloween candy to John's oh sure to John's point right usually will deals go sideways is on your side of the house right on your two sides of the house, right? On your two sides of the house, right? Which is the appraisal. I'm innocent. What do you mean? What do you mean? It gets rolled into my side of the house. The lender's appraiser. But it's usually the lending side, right?

It usually falls apart somewhere at that point. It could fall apart at home inspection, HOA, and a bunch of different other things that we bring, you know, that work through a transaction but generally it's usually the banking side of it so we're about a month in what are you seeing on the appraisals how are they going for you things have stayed relatively

the same I mean it hasn't made a big difference in our world you know I've been on a couple webinars talking about you know what we were just speaking about with commissions and concessions stuff, because that's the big thing, is we're trying to get that education out there. Because that's the one thing that agent education doesn't do a good job of. They don't understand commissions and concessions. So I'm not going to stop. We'll stop beating that dead horse. But on the appraisal side, we're really not seeing a whole lot of change. We are calling agents more now to confirm things. So it's taking us a little longer in that process because unfortunately agents don't see a lot of value in spending their time talking to appraisers.

And it makes it very busy for us. But otherwise, you know, we are moving into a more stable market in some of our market areas. That's the biggest change, but that has nothing to do with the market. Yeah, so talk about that for a second because I want to get into that a little bit. I think some markets are shifting dangerously close to a buyer's market. Yeah, I mean, when you get out into the fringe markets, especially our main market being Charlottesville and Albemarle County. And then once you get out into the more rural areas, there are definitely some spots out there where we're starting to see more of a stable days on markets becoming longer. We're seeing price adjustments more often. I think the hyper-listed super high prices is probably going to be behind us sooner than later.

But we're not seeing prices decrease. I think we're seeing… You're saying peak purchase price is probably going to be behind us sooner than later. But we're not seeing prices decrease. I think we're seeing... You're saying peak purchase price is behind us? I think the... Is that what you said? A lot of agents, and we do a lot of pre-listing work for agents, you know, particularly on complex properties, you know, that they have a hard time pricing. And they're not trying to price them to the moon anymore.

They're trying to make it more realistic. Because, you know, we still have a relatively, historically speaking, we have a relatively short days on market still. And the worst thing you can do with a piece of property right now is to price it in such a way that it's stale because no one will, I mean, I've had situations where we're hired in after it's been on the market for 90 days and they're trying to figure out what's going on. And it's obviously it's priced too high. And, you know, we're coming back and telling them that. You know, the data just doesn't support where you're at,

and the optimism's working against them because it's too strong of an optimism. It's okay to price high. You don't want to price it uber high, though, because then folks are just like, you know what, I'm not even going to bother with it. So this is when pros show up, pros matter, right? You know, pricing it right. Properties are increasing globally, are increasing in value, just not at this double-digit scenario.

Yeah, appreciation is still occurring. For sure. So that's important, right? So when you start seeing listings be price reduced, that means they probably didn't go in at the right price, right, for the location. Generally speaking, yeah. But we're not going back. But that's always the didn't go in at the right price right for the low generally speaking But we're not going back, but that's always the case Well, okay sellers. It's been my experience Sellers don't adapt to the market conditions as quickly as buyers there you go there you go

So what are you seeing out there Jay are you seeing a up tempo back tempo? But what are you seeing from your your world well like you-tempo? What are you seeing from your world? Well, like I say, I agree with Woody. Location, location, location. City of Charlottesville or Crozet is going to be different than somebody trying to buy a house in Louisa or Buckingham. But I am seeing, like I say, some price reductions. I'm having clients still struggling to win deals. But I am seeing, like I say, some price reductions. I'm having clients still struggling to win deals just because the prices are still high.

And I've got some first-time homebuyers that just aren't in that range yet. And some of the properties that, you know, a first-time homebuyer looking for a house for $250,000 is really struggling to find something. That's a thing of the past now. Yeah. You have to go over in the valley or way farther south or something like that. Yeah, but I've been saying this forever. Micro-markets matter. Street-to-street matters. Block-to-block matters, right?

Home-to-home matters. But, Judah, if you don't mind putting slide number one. So I belong to Altos Research. You know, that and NAR are like the two kings in the data business. But what this is is the 22901 zip code. So basically 22901 and 22902 are split by 250. One goes west towards the mountain. One goes east.

So if you take a look at that, so they have their own little matrix that they use from zero to 100. 22901 is squarely in what they call a strong seller's market. But take a look at 22902. So that is east of 250. That's slide number two, Judah. That's east of Long Street or 250. It kind of splits Charlottesville in half, working its way towards Lake Monticello and so forth and so on.

That needle is dangerously close to a buyer's market. Those two zip codes, though they're in the Charlottesville-Albemarle area, are performing a little bit differently. I'm really curious to see what's going to happen, and I want to highlight a couple of folks giving Woody Fincham some props.

I'm very curious to see what happens after we get through this election and into the first quarter and second quarter of next year where the expectation is that rates are going to drop even more, and as rates drop, buyers have more buying power because the whole process becomes more affordable. I'm curious to see what effect that has on the buyer-seller pendulum. Because I think you'll have more buyers in inventory available. Sandra Hard, give it

Woody props. Lane Duption. Just call him Lane. Lane, watching the program. Scott Harris, watching the program. David Massey. We can now, because we made the commitment to join Altos, and we can track this on a day-to-day, hour-to-hour, week-to-week, month-to-month, and we'll keep a track of that. But this buyer's market, and it's going to be very micro-market located, is not going to be your parents, it's not going to be your grandparents, it's not going to be a buyer market, in my opinion,

that we've ever seen before. Because inventory, even though interest rates are going to drop, they're going to stay flat. Yes. Inventory is going to stay flat. Because it's going to be hard to give up that 2%, 5%, or 3%, even at 5.5% if we get to 5.5% in Q2 next year. And NAR, God love them.

They're great at statistics, maybe not other things. Folks are staying in their homes for 10 plus years. And, oh by the way, it takes an act of Congress to get a development approved and built anywhere around here or in the country as a whole. So it's really weird. You're going to see inventory low, buyer pool remain high, but it's going to go to almost section by section

and home by home and street by street. And if you're not adapting to the current price point of where the market is in that particular micro market, that home can turn into a buyer scenario instead of a seller scenario. What do you think, Woody? Am I awful? Do you know what? No, in general? No, I don't disagree with what you're saying. I love you too, Woody. Feelings mutual, man. Feelings mutual. I love you. I don't disagree with anything you're saying. I mean, when you're in the urban ring or the suburban ring,

one street's difference can make a huge difference in the market. Once you get out into Louisa and Buckingham and places like that, those areas get much bigger. But, you know, those areas are definitely performing slower and more stable than we've seen them in a long time. So I plugged in our zip code into altos 22963 so it's lake monticello palm hour that kind of area it's right smack out about 50. so it's it's in the strong sellers market on that end of it so there's certain individual markets that's just going to be

performing yeah well from a seller's perspective well the lake's always it's always been strong i mean even when we were in the in the bad times back in 08 and 09 and 10, there was still a lot of activity out there. It's just not affordable for most folks anymore. I mean, what's the median price in Lake Monticello is well outside of the range of most first-time buyers. Yeah, I didn't run it. I ran, I'll share it later. I ran the first eight months for this year early this morning. But about $350, $360 in that price range.

Jay Dominick, you jump in here anywhere you want to go. Mico Los Pedros, giving Woody Fincham the props. The best of the best from Mico. Jay, he's watching New Mexico. Jay, the show is yours. Anywhere you want to go on this? I just want to mention one thing about

the interest rates, because there's always talk about that. And I just want to say that thing about the interest rates because there's always talk about that. And I just want to say that there's a prediction out there that said, say, this fall that the rates should be in the mid-fives. That's bananas to me. Well, except that prediction was from January of 2023. Okay. So the point being is, be careful who you listen to as predictions.

Last year, at the beginning of the year, they were saying rates are going to be in mid fives. Nobody predicted the pandemic and the rates plumbing there. When they thought the rates were going to come down, they went up, you know, hovering near eight. Okay. That was October 2023.

Right. That was the most unaffordable time in American history to buy a house, October of last year. And the prediction at the beginning of the year was that the rates were going to be in mid-fives by then. This same week last year, I had Dr. Young, Yoon, predict at the CEO event

that we were going to be in the fives. Okay, so why don't we, instead of doing... Let me get this out real quick. Do you think the current rate environment already has baked in the Powell's... I don't think there's any question about that. So I'll just touch on that briefly, okay? I agree. The day that the Fed drops the interest rates a quarter point,

will the mortgage interest rates drop a quarter percent? No. No? Just as likely they'll go up that day. Maybe slightly more likely they go up that day. Because the Fed doesn't control the mortgage interest rates. The Fed controls the shortest of the shortest term interest rates. The Fed controls what interest rates banks charge each other for overnight lending. What drives the interest rates are the pricing on mortgage-backed securities.

And that's a whole different market. So when you see a report that came out that says, okay, unemployment is down, producer price index is up, these are inflationary things, the market reacts to it. And the inverse is true as well. So when the Fed is talking about cutting interest rates, the same mechanism that causes the Fed to think, we want to cut interest rates, is the same thing, lack of inflation, that drives the mortgage interest rates lower. Okay, well explained, very well explained.

After this election, and we get into the first and second quarter of next year, what is your hunch? You've been in this game for how long? I'm right on Keith's timeline. So 1987, 37 years. Okay, 37 years he's been doing this. Right. So this guy is a pro's pro here. Next year, first 30, call it 90 days of next year. That's not that far of a prediction from now. Where do you think we're going to be? I think in the spring of next year, if I was going to bet my money at the blackjack table here, I would say that I would be thinking the rates are going to be

conventional rates, and I'm talking about these average rates, not the anomalies out there, but I think we'll be in the upper fives. Yeah, I think so too. Then you're right. We've got to be right then. No, no, no. Let's look at this thing from historical data. So I'm looking at from Freddie Mac, mortgage rate decrease,

lending up to eight out of the last 11 presidential elections. 1980 went up 2%. I remember that. 84 down 1%. 88 down .16. Stayed kind of flat. 92 went up.16. 96 went down.63. 2000 down.40. 2004.33 down. 808.3 down.

12.20 down. 81608, 0.3 down, 12, 0.20 down, 8.16 went up 0.3, and 20 went down 0.25. So historically, after elections, interest rates typically drop. So you're going to see that happen. And to your point, that's got nothing to do with the Fed, that this is just the way people, the way to mortgage back securities. I do. The conspiracy theorist in me is a bit... Fed's lowering interest rates to help a certain... Administration.

Yeah. Here's my take on it. Yeah. I don't think the Fed really gives a crap. Okay, okay. Okay, let's go down that. Everything they've done or talked about has been based on data. Based on

data. I think it's purely data driven. Now, I'm sure they have their own political leanings, but I've not seen anything if the Fed wanted X candidate to win, they would have and they thought they would have

done it already. They would have done it, okay. But the timing is curious from a perception standpoint. But not from a data standpoint. Fair, that's fair. That's a great counterpoint. I'll throw this to you. If your prediction is right, and I trust you, you've been in this 40,

if your prediction is right and we're in a high fives or mid fives rate environment on conventional, not the anomaly stuff, by spring of next year, what does that do to market dynamics in Central Virginia all I care about is Central Virginia I I think I think Keith is right that more buyers will come into play I've got buyers that have dropped off the charts because of the interest rate increases I do think that when the rates get into the upper fives that some of these people that are sitting at

the three and a half or something like that and thinking, well, we'd like to sell, but we're not going to sell and try to find a house at seven. I think some of those people are going to bite the bullet. I agree. I think there is going to be some more market. I don't think it's going to be a flood. 80%, whatever, it's way north of 50% of sellers are doing it for life changes, right? Divorces, marriages, getting old, right? Right. You know, that kind of thing.

Jump in here, Woody. What do you think? I'm just wowed by 1987. I was still playing with G.I. Joes in 1987. So were we, but that's a different thing altogether. Hold it. I'm not supposed to be doing that now? That was epic funny.

You know, I don't think that it's going to do buyers any favors for the rates to drop because competition is still fierce, and I don't believe it's going to be any less fierce in the spring unless something, a major economic happening occurs. So let me try the question a different way. Let's assume magically end of the first quarter at 5 and a half, just to pick a number, right? Do you think we're going back to the insanity of 2001 with this crazy offers or has the buyers gotten smarter, right? And we'll be making intelligent decisions about what they're doing, not just buying something to buy something. Does that make sense? It's hard to call because you guys are talking about the Fed.

And the Fed, yeah, I love Jesus. No, I'm talking about mortgage rates going up. But where I'm getting at is that the zeitgeist matters with this stuff. And the reason the news is hyperbolic about the Fed rate is because they make the consumer think that it does drive the mortgage rate. It's misinformation that's put out there. Right. And need people like you and me and you to help straighten people out on that.

If the zeitgeist at whatever time, and going back to your conspiracy theory here, I mean, whatever's going on politically at the time too matters. So whatever hyperbole gets out there and the media picks up and carries, it will matter a lot. So trying to guess what a buyer's going to want to do and the spring is really difficult to say because it's really going to matter how the winds are blowing at that point so Judah if you can put up slide number three and leave it up there for a little while so to that point up so I've been tracking since 2016 the total number of sales and median sales price, right?

So this is the full car footprint. It's all product types, new construction, condos, attached, detached. We are now at 2,054 transactions. These are closed transactions from January 1 up until literally this morning. morning we are roughly for roughly 400 trans little over 400 transactions below where we were in 2016 so we are producing or selling less homes than we were in 2016 but take a look at that 480 I didn't do with a percentage difference between 275 and 480 but it's probably north of 80%, I would imagine. This is great data. Pretty close to 80%.

So sales volumes are dropping, right? In other words, the number of actual transactions. I think you're going to, and we predicted this last month, the month before that. I still think you're going to see that number decrease through the balance of this year. Units sold. Units sold.

Yeah, I agree with you. But you're also going to see buyers have a little bit more control in the market, right? Which is weird. That doesn't kind of equate, right? So if I got more buyers and less units on the market, you would think that the sellers would have a little bit more control. But you're starting to see this out in the field. That's why this needle is changing on Altos, that some buyers are starting to assert control over the process. I think that's going to increase.

Jamie Turner has a question for the panel. What drives the mispricing leading to so many price adjustments happening in the area? Do the realtors not have the tools to accurately price? I think I can answer this. I think the realtors have the tools to accurately price. What's driving the mispricing is disillusionment with the sellers. Yes.

Because the sellers still think this is a market that was synonymous during COVID and the pandemic, and it's not. Right. It's not that market anymore. So put up slide number three again, if you don't mind. Pandemic was 21. We had 3 3190

transactions happened the first eight months we're now roughly round numbers almost a thousand transactions down since 2021 i'm going to get myself into trouble again second time maybe more than the second time i love when you lead with that to just further draw attention to the trouble that you're doing. No offense. I'm going to steal a cookie from the cookie jar. You're going to be offended here in a second. No offense, but it's a New York thing.

You know, when you have these volume of sales at this much and you have a thousand plus agents in the marketplace, getting a listing is king and they'll just take listings to take listings right and not sit down and say okay it's just terrible business it's bad business yeah i don't disagree with you it's going to cause some problems for some folks in that that realm because if you over promise and under deliver you're not going to remain

a popular professional and and and the listing agent is going out of pocket anywhere from $500 to $1,500 photography and videography alone. It could be more than that. Plus their time. Not only is it bad business, it's actually costing them money. Well, that's back in the bad business category. But getting it right and convincing your client this is the right number takes a lot of guts,

frankly. If Michael Guthrie is watching, I need to give him credit because I stole this terminology. I'd rather disappoint you now than later. It's straight Michael Guthrie and he's 100% right. I'd rather disappoint you now and give you a right number than get into the project or get into the listing and disappoint you. And once it starts decreasing, the inventory is so light, you know, when your price gets dropping, what's the first thing the buyer is going to ask? What the hell is wrong? Right?

So get the number right. Price matters. Location is number one. Price is number two of my six rights. And price matters. And if you have any concern about that, you hire this man, Woody. Instead of paying the photography, pay this man a fee to go give you a number, and he'll tell you what the market value is to the, well, maybe not to the penny, but pretty damn close to the penny. This question's coming to the feed.

The cash buyers in the market, what percentage of transactions are cash buyers? Oh, wow, great question. We're still north of 30%, aren't we? I think we're more than that. I can tell you real quickly where somebody answers that question. Going back to what Keith's talking about, though, with pre-listing appraisals, I can't tell you how often

I get a call from one of my realtor colleagues and they're like, hey, I've got this situation. Can you come in and do a pre-list for us? We will. We end up, a lot of times telling the consumer or the seller the exact same thing that the agents already told them. But for whatever reason, it doesn't sit well with the consumer because they are being very overzealous on how they want to price it. And they're using all the information they get from, you know, the news and what have you. And they go, well, we think it's worth a million dollars.

And it's not, you know. And I'm glad that we can come in and help folks doing that. But it's just I can't. Probably 80% of the time we end up at the same range of number that the agent had already told them. So last seven days, 66 transactions happened in the car footprint. I'm just looking at my little market snapshot that I have set up on Paragon. Twenty-two of those 66 were cash transactions. That's 30 percent, 33 percent.

Yeah. Twenty-eight was conventional fixed, and there were seven FHA, one Rural, and seven VA on that end of it. This question for Jay. What's the good rule of thumb for refinancing on interest rates saved points-wise and the cost for a refinance rule of thumb? It's a good question. You get that all the time. My standard

response is I hate rules of thumb. But I'll say this. If one of my clients, past borrowers, call me up and say, hey, I'm thinking about refinance, my response is, well, you're at six and a half, and you need to be this rate to get there. The question is always, if I refinanced and I paid these closing costs, how much will I save per month?

How long will it take for me to recoup that money? If the answer is inside of three years, then okay. Preferably less. But it's not a, I have to be 2% below. Heck, if I've got an $800,000 mortgage, 3 quarters of a percent might do it. It's massive. But if I'm at $150,000 mortgage amount,

2% is probably not enough to cover all those closing costs, to recoup those costs. And you also have to look at, and Jay obviously knows this in the counsel he provides, it's not just how quickly can you recoup the closing costs, it's what it does for the monthly budget. Because if you're saving hundreds of dollars, if you have a loan budget. Because if you're saving hundreds of dollars, if you have a loan of that magnitude and you're saving hundreds of dollars, that could just offer

relief of getting day-to-day, you know, past bills. Yeah. Cashflow is important. That's what it is. Or it could be a strategy of what I like to do is not just say, hey, guess what? You saved $220 a month. I'd say say how about you take the savings you're already laying this out how about putting it towards your credit card or something like that so i just you shouldn't be paying extra on your mortgage if you've got a bunch of credit card debt back to the cash question i just while you guys were chatting i just took a look at what closed in almar county just almar county from the first of the year to today there was 1,100 transactions that closed 400 of them were cash so it's approaching almost 40% yeah yeah I would

expect album all to be higher than a lot of the other counties yeah can we use that data to suggest the or to infer that those people doing the cash transactions are new to the area that that have sold elsewhere and have moved to the area? The only real way to do that is just to take a dive into all 1,000 or all 400 and make some phone calls to agents and get back, which would be a lot of work. This is a follow-up. Is the closing costs, I know you hate rule of thumbs, but around a point? No.

What are we talking? There'd probably be more, but I wouldn't say... Let me say this. If somebody's buying a house, there's a rule of thumb out there that says we'll use 3% of the sale price closing costs. 3% is too little at certain price ranges, too much at other

price ranges. I would probably say that the closing costs on a refi are going to be not 3%. It's going to be less, but you're going through all the same closing costs you did when you bought the house except for some tax stamps for purchase. So that's why who's on the other side matters to kind of round up this conversation back to that end of it. Because if I've got a buyer and that buyer's talking to Jay, we're all going to have this conversation about what the projected closing cost might be for this specific property. Because if we're trying to negotiate seller concessions,

we've got to know what that number is, right, on that end of it. So who's on the other side matters. Having these conversations matter. I know everybody wants to text and do all this fun stuff, but you actually have to have this one-on-one conversation. Back on the cash thing, there was 296 transactions in the city of Charlottesville. 116 of them were cash. So that is approaching 50% in the high fort, mid to high fort.

Well, your demographics matter in both Albemarle and Charlottesville. I mean, you've got a lot more folks with deans. Deep pockets. Yeah. A question for Jay real quick. I know we're getting close to time. But there's been some scuttlebug on a 40-year mortgage becoming a thing.

Oh, God. Well, I hear all sorts of things about potential loan products, stuff like that. I don't see it being relative. I mean, 40-year mortgages were out a while ago. Sure. But the price of them

were high. It was not a good product. For all the more you saved, it was partially offset by the higher interest rate. It wasn't a whole lot different than interest only. Well, the amount that you actually end up paying back on your loan over 40 years versus 30 years is significant. It's significant on a 30-year.

It gets even worse at a 40. If that comes into play, I don't see that as a big player. It's not going to be priced very well because Fannie Mae and Fray Mac, they're going to be buying these things. So I don't see that as going to be a big factor. I just can't believe we're having a conversation about a 40-year mortgage. How about the seven or longer car term? Buy a car.

Finance it over seven or eight years. Right. I see some crazy car drivers out there. Drive it off the lot. It depreciates 40%. Then you're going to pay interest over seven years. Housing doesn't depreciate. Fulton County, back to the cash question, to your point, 257 transactions, 52

were cash. The city of Charlottesville was 296, a little bit higher, but almost double the cash transactions in the city of Charlottesville versus Havana, and that's purely based on price point. Gentlemen, we are way beyond our time. Keith Smith, Woody Fincham, and

Jay Dominick. Woody, close with some final thoughts for the viewers and listeners. Just happy to be back on the show and hang out with my friends. This is always a great conversation to have and to all my real estate colleagues out there in Charlottesville and around, call, text, email. If we can help you, let us know.

Same for you, Jay Dominick. Some closing thoughts? If you want to have a conversation, have questions, need help with something, you can Google me, Jay Dominick, town mortgage. Easy enough to find. I'm all over the Internet. But I'm happy to help out anybody, whether it turns into a loan or not.

I can speak from personal experience, just help navigate a good project. So thank you for your help on that, Jay. Thank you. Keith Smith, Woody Fincham, Jay Dominick. Real Talk with Keith Smith online, realtalkwithkeithsmith.com. Click the Partners tab and you will see the trusted people that you can count on to get through the closing process. Keith Smith? Yeah, next Friday I am up speaking at the RIS Media CEO event, So Dave Norris

is going to be sitting in my spot. Very nice. I gave him a deal of choice so we'll find out who he's going to bring with him. There you go. Dave Norris next Friday on Real Talk with Keith Smith. Judah Wickauer behind the camera. Thank you kindly for joining us. The I Love Seville Show at 1230. So long everybody.

Thank you, gentlemen.