The I Love CVille Show With Jerry Miller! - Jerry Cox, Managing Director, Forerunner Foundation; Jerry Cox (An Attorney) Lives In Lewis Mountain

Episode Date: June 12, 2025

The I Love CVille Show headlines: Jerry Cox, Managing Director, Forerunner Foundation Jerry Cox (An Attorney) Lives In Lewis Mountain Lewis Mountain Opposing 6 Luxury Brownstones Evergreen Purchased 303 Alderman Rd 1-Year Ago City Of CVille Being Sued For New Zoning Ordinance NZO Lawsuit Status + Conflict Of Interest With Judge Analyze City Missing Filing Deadline In NZO Lawsuit How Much Tax Dollars Has City Spent On Lawsuit? Read Viewer & Listener Comments Live On-Air Jerry Cox, Managing Director of The Forerunner Foundation, joined me live on The I Love CVille Show! The I Love CVille Show airs live Monday – Friday from 12:30 pm – 1:30 pm on The I Love CVille Network. Watch and listen to The I Love CVille Show on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn, iTunes, Apple Podcast, YouTube, Spotify, Fountain, Amazon Music, Audible, Rumble and iLoveCVille.com.

Good Thursday afternoon, guys. My name is Jerry Miller, and thank you kindly for joining us on the I Love Seaville show. It's a pleasure to connect with you in our building in downtown Charlottesville, where we want to become or pursue a mission of being the water cooler of conversation for Charlottesville, Alamo County, and Central Virginia. We don't want to break the news. We want to be the commentators on what is in the news cycle. And we encourage you, the viewer and listener, to join us on that mission.

It is a path that we can pursue together where you could share your perspective and help shape the show. We welcome your participation. Today's program I think is going to be quite informative for the Charlottesville, Almar County and Central Virginia region. The city of Charlottesville pursuing a new zoning ordinance that is arguably the most radical zoning approach or plan in the country. As a result of its out of the box, some would call it,

others would call it absolutely radical. We have homeowners in the city of Charlottesville that are pursuing a lawsuit against the city that is extremely costly for Charlottesville taxpayers. A comedy of errors continues with this new zoning ordinance as the third party law firm that is acting on behalf of Charlottesville missed a critically important filing deadline. And our guest today, Jerry Cox, is an attorney.

He is a local who lives in the Lewis Mountain neighborhood, and he is a man that understands policy, understands zoning, and understands the complexities of jurisdictions and what they are trying to pursue on behalf of their taxpayers and citizens better than most. He's going to spend 45 minutes with us today and we will take your questions and your comments if you'd like to put them in the chat box. Judah Wickower is behind the camera. If you could, Judah Wickower, let's highlight one of our partners, Charlottesville Sanitary Supply. They are absolutely fantastic people.

61 years of consecutive business in Charlottesville. The Vermillion family, four generations strong in Almarra County. Their business on East High Street and online at Charlottesville Sanitary Supply is the kind of business we want to see make another 61 years, so please support them. We will also highlight the folks at Charlottesville Business Brokers. We are doing a lot of deals, folks. More than 4 million in transactions in the last 25 months at Charlottesville Business Brokers as we help folks buy and sell businesses across the region.

Judah Wickhauer, if we can go to the studio camera and a two-shot, and now we have Jerry Cox on screen. Thank you kindly for joining us. Jerry, thank you for having me back. I think you may be one of a very, very small number of people in this town who actually pay any attention to real news. There is so much happening here.

And before I was on your show, before I'd never heard of the show, I'd never heard of you, and now I'm a big fan of Watch Regularly because it's the only way to know what's happening in this city. Everybody else seems to just go along to get along and it's really kind of a shame. But I do want to clarify one thing though, and that is my role in all this, I'm speaking purely for myself. I do not have any law clients. I am a member of the Lewis Mountain Neighborhood Association, but I am not an officer of it. I am not on the legal team of any of the law firms that are fighting this EMB movement in Arlington

or Alexandria or Falls Church or Charlottesville or anywhere else. I'm like you. I'm a commentator. And that is through the Forerunner Foundation which is all about trying to develop forward looking public policy. And when the Yimbi movement came to our attention, we took one look at it and said this is as backward looking public policy as you can get. Attacking single family zoning is a negative thing. It is not promoting anything in the way of affordable housing. All it is doing is fronting for a bunch of extremely wealthy developers who will use whatever tools, and I mean that in every sense of the word, will come along and try to help them.

And it's their money that is behind the election of public officials who will just roll over in a heartbeat for anything that these developers want to see happen. I know the real reason that we talked about my coming back on today was because it's the first anniversary of the purchase of 303 Alderman. But I'd be happy to go straight to that if you want, but I'd rather try to put that in perspective, because that's just a small piece of a smaller piece of the response to the Yenby movement. Virginia just doesn't get all this stuff

that's coming off the West Coast. We don't have a Portlandia in Virginia. If we did, Charlottesville would be the closest thing, but even Charlottesville has more common sense than that. We know, we're watching to see, and I'm persuasible on the subject as well, whether the new zoning ordinance will do anything to promote affordable housing,

and clearly it's not doing that. There's not been a single project. 303 Alderman was supposed to be the flagship on that, but we'll get to that. Arlington, I brought a lovely piece that I saw in the press a couple of days ago. They, is where all this started, where the rubber met the road on this, was in Arlington. And citizens up there spent their own money to fight taxpayer-supported lawyers on the other side to try to avoid the new zoning ordinance there.

And they won. As we sit here right now, the Arlington case is decided. Of course it is under appeal. The county wasn't gonna sit by and only spend the 1.4 million they had spent up to that point. They wanna spend more money to fight it and one of the developers seems not to have gotten the message. This highly affordable house on Troy Street in Arlington just went on the market this past week. I

know you're a big real estate guy so you'll appreciate this. It went on the market for $1,800,000. It's a duplex. I'm not sure if that's half the duplex or the whole duplex. 1.8 million is the first quote unquote affordable house that you're getting out of the Arlington Zoning Ordinance. And this is what purchasers are being told they must sign onto. This is in the closing documents.

If you want to rush right up there and buy this place on Troy Street, you're going to have to sign this. It says, quote, to potential purchasers, please be advised that a lawsuit is on appeal to the Court of Appeals of Virginia, and then perhaps to the Supreme Court of Virginia, that may void your zoning rights to this property that you just spent $1.8 million on, and may result in your right to live in this property being eliminated. So I don't know about you but the minute we're done with this show I'm gonna get in the car and drive up to Arlington and buy that house because to me that just sounds like the best deal anybody could ever get and of course you know you figure that the Arlington County you know with

the $725 an hour lawyers that they hired, you would assume that they will win in the Court of Appeals. And I don't think they will. A lot to unpack there. First, we highlight Arlington. The judge in that Arlington case told media that you may have to tear down anything done in this radical zoning plan that Arlington was trying to actualize. And I want to caution any developer in Charlottesville City that is pursuing development projects here because look at the exposure that developers have in Arlington. Who is going to sign a purchase agreement or a contract to purchase with

language like that in the agreement? I don't think anyone would, certainly not at that price point. We'll relay it to Charlottesville. You're in the news. Hall Spencer, fantastic journalist, a neighbor of mine, one of the most talented journalists in the Commonwealth, has a story in the Daily Progress today. Unfortunately, I don't think many are reading this because it's behind a paywall and their subscribership is so small these days. But the law firm that is representing the city, this is a crazy story. I am a subscriber. The law firm that's representing the city missed a filing deadline. So now they have to go hat in hand, eyes down, basically in a pity state, asking for some grace and forgiveness from Judge Worrell. And we're going to get to the judge in a matter of moments. Put the filing deadline circus into perspective for the viewers and listeners in a layman's capacity.

I will try to do it in English. I worked my way through college as a newspaper reporter, and that was probably the last time I ever could write English instead of Lawyerese. But I did try being on the newspaper of the UVA Law School as well back in the day. But before I go there, a little bit more perspective that I think is really important. Please. That is that the Gentry Lock Firm is representing

both the County Board in Arlington and the City of Charlottesville and I've obtained a redacted invoice that they submitted for the last month before they filed their brief. The briefing schedule is just starting in Arlington. It probably will be two or three years before that case is resolved because it will almost surely go to the Supreme Court. I have one matter that has been pending before the verdict that's been pending before the Virginia Court of Appeals now for two years and we don't even have a date for oral argument on it yet. So don't anybody think, any developer

anybody else think this is going to get resolved anytime soon. The only way that happens is what Gentry Lock was assuming would happen and what Arlington assumed would happen. And that is they would just spend their own citizens into oblivion with this. And they're off to a good start doing that. I mean, this, like I said, was just the most recent invoice that they submitted just for the month of April.

It's $128,000. Unbelievable. For one month, you know, and they can bill according, I also have their retainer agreement. You can see all the privilege stuff has been blocked out of that. And it says they can charge the county. And I presume this is true in Charlottesville. I don't know for a fact. But it says that their rates can go up to $750 an hour. And this invoice for

April, every single entry is for partner time. I mean, apparently this is such rocket science that there's not a single associate in their firm they would trust to do any work on. I just, having been in every major law firm in DC over the years, I've never seen anybody do that before. So that's pretty shocking to me. But that's just a gigantic amount of money. And I think again that I think

Arlington will lose, and this is important for Charlottesville because I think it's going to create precedent so that whatever Judge Worrell does, I think the Court of Appeals is going to have to comply with or observe the precedent that will get set in Arlington. They filed a 59 page brief, that $123,000 was just for the final wrap up work for dotting I's and crossing T's I guess on the brief. And their 59 pages says that if a state statute says that a local legislative body has to give reasonable consideration to something like sewerage, whether sewers are going to back up, if the statute says you have to give reasonable consideration,

the county's position is reasonable consideration can mean no consideration. And that the courts therefore have no business trying to tell the County of Arlington that their ordinance is void. And that's just not going to fly, I don't think. It depends on what the Court of Appeals says and beyond that what the Supreme Court says. But what happens with the case here, what Judge World does, is going to be subject to that outcome. But here in Charlottesville, we've had something.

I've never, ever seen this. I've been practicing law for 46 years. Hate to admit it, but I've been practicing for 46 years. I've never seen anything like this. Charlottesville has had something like seven city attorneys in the last couple of years. Lisa Robertson was here and then she quit in December of 22. I have to look at my notes to get all this straight.

Then they had a guy named Jacob Stroman who went to. He was here for a cup of coffee. Stroman who was here for a cup of coffee. Yeah, he was basically for a cup of coffee. And like me, he's a graduate of the Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International Affairs at Princeton and UVA Law School. So I have to believe I have to give him a shout out for that. He gets the benefit of the doubt with me. But he started in July of 23. And within a couple of months, he was on leave. And a few months after that, they handed him a $180,000 check and off he went. And then they had John Bader Hunt I had a little bit of contact with and now we have John Maddox who is a North Carolina bar member.

It tells you a lot when you've got that kind of turnover. It's not the lawyers, it's the client. One correction, and he's watching the program, he's a friend of the show, John Blair, the city attorney of Charlottesville one time. John, I'm going to sing your praises here. Best city attorney we've ever had, maybe someone we should have considered for city manager here in Charlottesville, now in Stanton. He's watching the

program. We got questions coming in quickly here. Missing a filing deadline. I just have a talk show here and a platform. Missing a filing deadline when you're a law firm of this caliber and charging hourly rates like this seems to be about as junior varsity as it gets. What happened here? I'm afraid you would have to ask them,

but I may have brought a solution. Being a lawyer, I had to show up for your show today with a demonstrative exhibit. And I'm going to hold it up to the king. That's what the prop is here? Yeah. That's what this is. That's what this is. And it's a gift to the new city attorney.

I just mentioned that you have a guy who's brand new in the job, not even a member of the Virginia bar yet, I think, unless he got sworn in in the last few days. And I wanted to introduce him, make sure that he's familiar with this thing. It's called a Gregorian calendar. And since the Gregorian calendar was adopted in the 1580s, lawyers around the world have used

this to write down when things are due, when they're supposed to be in court, or when they're supposed to file something. They put it on a Gregorian calendar and then put it in the break room or something like that, you know, see if anybody notices. But I also took an extra step here. I'm going to lose myself in all of this. Jerry Cox throwing some tongue-in-cheek shade to Charlottesville City Hall right now. As City Hall is watching the

program. Jerry Cox throwing shade to the folks watching the program now in City Hall. Oh, he's got some. This calendar goes to June of 2026. And I circled the 22nd. That's the trial date. And I wrote on here, trial starts, remember to show up. So that's for the city attorney, and he might wanna share this with whomever he has trying this case. I appreciate the levity and the humor here and what is a complicated, perhaps dry,

but an extremely important situation. You were quoted in the Daily Progress with the journalist, Hall Spencer, his byline, saying, you know, this is a pretty big deal and now it's up to Judge Worrell to offer some grace, you know, in this situation here. Hall has quoted another attorney and he routinely quotes this attorney in his coverage in the Daily Progress. And he says, Daniel Heilberg says, this isn't potentially as big of a deal as it's being made.

I would love your take on what's going on here. I'm really glad you asked because two things are quite true in this circumstance. One is that the city is in default. There's no question about that. Their responsive pleading did not deny that. It just said, well, forgive us. We don't have any extenuating circumstances. You know, we didn't have somebody get run over by a beer wagon with the filing in our briefcase or anything like that. But, you know, we're – you know, we've been working on this a long time, and it's important stuff.

And so, Judge, you should come in and rescue us from our inadvertence, they called it. And so that's totally true. There's no question about that. And I think it's going to be true that the judge is going to rescue them. So it's not a big deal unless you paid, unless you're one of the taxpayers who have to not only.

Is on the hook for, they're paying a law firm, yeah. You're on the hook at 550 an hour is the highest, 575 is the highest I saw billed in the April invoice that I just held up. But if you're on the hook and your taxes are going up because you're paying $575 an hour and have something like this happen, to some people that's going to be a big deal.

I mean, you know, when I opened my tax bill for this year, I mean, mine's like doubled in the last two years. I'd have to do the math on that and make sure I got that right, but it's pretty close to that. And other people, regardless of their politics, regardless of their interest in zoning, regardless of what they think about affordable housing or whatever, we've got a right to an explanation. 100%. 100%.

We absolutely have a right to an explanation. And if the judge were to decide to just leave him turning, twisting slowly in the wind to borrow a Watergate quote, then it's within his rights to do that. And they would have to show that he's abusing his discretion to do that. And if he feels compelled to rescue them, in spite of the fact that there are no extenuating circumstances here, and they admit it, if he's gonna come in and rescue them from that,

then he at least should make sure that the plaintiffs in the Charlottesville case don't have to pay their own money. I mean, on top of theiresville case don't have to pay their own money. I mean, on top of their taxes, they shouldn't have to pay for responding and bringing this to the attention of the court. There's nothing right about that. And there's nothing right about whatever the city

is being billed to try to undo their mistake. I mean, not just an apology that's owed to the city and to the people who pay taxes here, but I think there's money that should change hands that should go back to the city and that should go back to the plaintiffs in this case. We have even potentially more ammunition here for Judge Worrell and a conflict of interest appeal. Judge Worrell is a city homeowner. Judge Worrell's wife is a housing advocate, a known housing advocate. The stage is already being set if it doesn't go the plaintiff's way the first time that appeal would happen on a conflict of interest basis. Does the, if WRL offers them grace and leeway and says no, this can move forward, is that

ammunition potentially more for an appeal if you're the plaintiffs? I'm not sure about that because it's a pretty high bar. It shouldn't be a high bar. These circumstances, it should be pretty obvious. The fact that every single judge in Arlington and Alexandria recused themselves without even explaining why. It was just such a complete no-brainer. The only thing I will say about Judge Wuerl's situation is this. Now that the Supreme Court decision came down and laws have changed, Judge Wuerl's argument in refusing to recuse himself was that his

wife has First Amendment rights. So my question is this, if Judge Wuerl were to marry me, now that would be big of me, among other things, it would be big of both of us actually, but if he were to marry me, would he be able to continue sitting in this case because I have First Amendment rights? I'll just leave that question out there. Alderman Road we're going to get to, Lewis Mountain we're going to get to, Evergreen we're going to get to, and the six luxury brownstones we're going to get to.

First, continue with the lawsuit here. When are we going to get some clarity here? I mean, we're a year away. I mean, what are the steps? Give us the flip books of what's going to happen. Well, presumably the case will be discovery between now and then and the question is, one big question is whether the city will do to Charlottesville opponents what the Richmond law firm, different law firm that's representing the city of Alexandria, they have been delusing

citizens who aren't even parties to the case with subpoenas and forcing them to go out and hire lawyers to fight subpoenas that ask them for every text message they ever sent on the subject of the zoning ordinance in Alexandria. And those folks are fighting back. You've got even higher percentage of the population that are lawyers in Alexandria that you have down here. And those people are fighting back and they're saying, all right, going to a judge, and saying, quash the subpoena,

and order them to pay our expenses, pay our legal fees and expenses. And that process is just getting started. So that's what you're gonna see, might see here, is an intimidation campaign against people like me who have spoken up against this, people in the Lewis Mountain Neighborhood Association who know exactly what this, what that proposed development would do to their neighborhood. And they've been zeroing in on it and communicating with

each other and they're going to see people coming in and asking them to reveal everything they said to their neighbor and it's going to include a lot of emails about people letting their dogs poop in their front yard, and that kind of stuff, and it's not gonna have anything to do with the lawsuit, it's just gonna cost more citizens more money, and it's gonna cost the people who are plaintiffs in this case a tremendous amount of money to go through that, and then theoretically,

if that's a real date, you know, if 22 June of 2026, if that turns out to be a real date, you'd have probably a week of trial and who knows how long it would take the judge to rule. He had a motion to throw the case out last year and it took him six months to write a two page... It took forever. Yeah. So it's gonna be quite a while and in the meantime, you know, you'd be wise to consider as a developer or as a purchaser, you'd be wise to consider the advice that they're offering on this Troy Street property in Arlington. That's why I wanted to get that up front.

And I want to follow up on that because this coming week and the exact day, and I hope, Roger, you're watching the program here, Roger Voisonnet and Richard Price. This coming week on Wednesday, so Wednesday the 18th of June, Roger Voisonnet and Richard Price will be in studio. They're the developers, the architects behind a new zoning ordinance greenlit project in Woolen Mills. So I will relay what you are saying to what I think is going to be the first project to materialize or be birthed under the new zoning ordinance in Woollen Mills. They're sitting where you're sitting six days from now. And I'll pass along your word of

caution to them. How about I throw to you the Lewis Mountain neighborhood and 303 Alderman Road. We covered it, we were the first to cover it, then it got into the legacy media cycle and it started getting some traction. Evergreen Builders, they develop, they build, they buy. Brick Rancher, I think you have the photos, if you can put those photos on screen when you can. 303 Alderman Road, north of $800,000 they made this purchase in your neighborhood, the Lewis Mountain neighborhood. I've said multiple times on this show,

there's no neighborhood in the city of Charlottesville that is in the crossfire of the new zoning ordinance like the Lewis Mountain neighborhood is. You live there. A year in change has transpired and nothing has materialized at 303 Alderman Road. Open edit to start, where do you wanna go on this topic? It's exactly a year that somebody has had $835,000 hanging fire out there and all they have to show for it is a billboard they slapped on the front of the house that says come on in and buy one of of their politics saying whoa what does that have to do with

affordable housing it's got nothing to do with it you know where was the consideration of sewage exactly like Arlington that's one of the issues that the citizens here have brought I must point out though that that would be like like the number one objective certainly my, is to get the zoning ordinance invalidated because this thing goes back to being an R1 property. I mean, I would allege that it is and always has been an R1 property and the zoning ordinance is void.

They call it, I'm gonna throw some legal Latin at you, ab initio, you'll see that in some of the coverage. Ab initio means it never happened, like it never happened, like the zoning never changed. It's R1 and if that happens there ain't going to be any thing going up at 303 Alderman except one house. And so that's the first thing that I support and I particularly have to give congratulations to the local lawyer

who not only is arguing about the reasonable consideration issue, but about a very specific failure to give a report that's also required by statute to VDOT. I mean, it's just right there in black and white. Who's that attorney? Michael Durdain is his name. And again, I don't have anything to do with that lawsuit. I'm not part of the team.

All I'm doing is rooting him on. I'm rooting on the Give Hampshire up in Arlington and other folks who are championing these things and trying to figure out some way. I mean, other than me, none of us do this for our health. I mean, we expect to get paid for this sort of thing. Everything I'm doing is pro bono, but you can't expect other lawyers to do that and not get paid for it.

And so they're struggling to try to figure out some way that these citizens can pay for it, because they're paying for it out of their own pocket. First, they pay the ever-increasing taxes, and then they're paying their own lawyers, and then they're paying their lawyers to undo mistakes that the other lawyers made. I mean, it's just, it's

absolutely crazy. But that's the first thing that has to be done with 303 and it may happen before anything starts to move on that property at the rate things are going. The developer cannot, he's got kind of a cookie cutter complex that he wants to put on a lot that is, how can I put it, it's taller than it is wide. The frontage on Alderman is shorter than the frontage on Minor Road, and there's some other requirement that mathematically says that you can't have mentions that they, so they have gone to the city's zoning administrator

to read broad head and we can't do this so we without you unless you give us a administrative modification so that we can make this massive and when they did that when they made that proposal to our adjacent land owners and I was most in writing that they would and then in January when the second iteration of the lot came up, you know, had to literally had to get out. And if you want to read what and how they announced this, I can pass you to read their approval

because it is an absolutely microscopic print. And I don't know where I put it, but it's here somewhere, that the pages that I downloaded off of the portal where it says they approved it on December 18th. And I called and he says, well, you're too late. You had 21 days to comment on the decision that I didn't tell you I made. We had a conversation with the then acting city attorney and they withdrew, they canceled the approval and as soon as they canceled the approval the developer then went back

and said well you know what the modification that we asked for isn't big enough. They literally doubled down and asked for a modification that is twice as big as the one they asked for in the first place. That has been in the in this system now with the city since March the 3rd, and I think that was too much even for the city to swallow, because there's not been a word said about that ever since. But if they're gonna sneak it through

in the middle of the night, and I don't even know what font that is, if they're gonna sneak it through in the middle of the night, then we're just going to have to be prepared to deal with it.. But for the time being, I think that that project, and I've said before, you know, that they might as well not count on being able to do that. And I would borrow Johnny Cochran's expression and say,

if it don't fit, you've got to quit. I mean, it's time to put something else there or rent what you've got. But carrying that kind of money, plus whatever the engineering firm charged to put all this stuff together, if you're an investor, then you've got to be wondering when you're going to see anything off of this. And if I have anything to say about it, it'll be never.

Comments coming in. I'll highlight some of the viewers and listeners that are watching the program. You have a boatload of realtors watching the program. You have a couple of developers watching the show. Neil Williamson, the president of the Free Enterprise Forum watching the program as well. Judith showed the Alderman Road rancher on screen. Just one pick of the rancher is fine. We don't have to do any

more than the front, please. Let me, Lewis Mountain, I have seen come together, like you said, regardless of politics and pursue this fight much like the plaintiffs have done in similar capacity to the plaintiffs have done. This is a tough question for you. If this new zoning ordinance is eventually green lit and is approved as it stands right now, what do you think the change to Lewis Mountain could be? Absolutely devastating. Because everything up and down Alderman Road would likely go the same way and it could be dealt with I mean if you if you're not hooking into 90 year old sewers you might have less of a worry

about your sewer backing up if the buildings were required to provide some parking for their residents that would help Because there's not gonna be any place for people to park I believe that the design calls for one garage space to each of these brown stones, which Everybody would use for storage. Nobody would use it for parking. I don't suppose And so the parking would be completely outlandish We have the other development that I don't even think about because I get a headache thinking about what's happening at Alderman and Ivy, the 12-story building. Next to Moe's Barbecue.

Next to Moe's. I mean, that thing, I don't even want to think about that one. I've had people in the neighborhood who said, what about that one? And I'm like, my head will explode if I, you know, contemplate that. I figure that one's probably going to happen. But that was a special use permit, if I remember correctly.

It was. And there's, you know, nobody's granted any special use permits and nobody's granted any modifications to the zoning ordinance. But the developer's argument was that to stop them from putting in this even bigger, more massive building would impose an undue hardship on them. And when we did file comments on the second go round with this, we said, if that's true, then nobody will ever comply with the zoning ordinance. If per se the zoning ordinance keeps you from building what you build and that is an undue

hardship, that's per se an undue hardship, nobody will ever come in within the range of the zoning ordinance. It will be bigger. Has Evergreen communicated with the neighborhood? How would you characterize the communication? We have been in touch on two occasions. And on both occasions, the answer was threats. I actually brought copies of the email messages and the letter that we got from two different law firms that basically said if you get in our way, we're going to squash you. I mean, I could read the actual, if I can find it here, I could read the actual language of the threats that they sent.

But we have challenged Evergreen's CEO to, here we go, we've challenged their CEO to a debate in the neighborhood and would keep it civil, and you had suggested the last time I was on the show that we had a debate on your show and that sort of thing, and what we've gotten back since then is crickets. All we got was a note from one law firm back in October that said any effort at interfering with the anticipated

development at 303 Alderman Road will be met with the appropriate legal action. So I'm quaking in my boots over that. And then I get a message in January that says because we on altzoning, I got to put in a plug for altzoning.org because it explains everything that I've not done a particularly good job of explaining today. And we did a first draft of the video and said that this massive development was going to be 60 feet high because I misunderstood. The massing is not height, it's width.

And so when that first video came out and go look at altzoning, it's right on the landing page of altzoning.org, I was told the video must be corrected to avoid constituting a slanderous statement. So once again, I'm going into my happy place and sucking on my thumb because I'm worried about these lawyers for Evergreen accusing me of making a slanderous statement because I gave their buildings 20 feet more height. The Alderman project, your prediction of what's gonna materialize there,

do you think Evergreen just ends up selling this brick rancher? I mean, think about the carrying costs. Yes. Think about the headache, the legal fees. This is just turning into a black pit of money being burnt. And the follow-up question I have there, if that does end up going back on the market and being sold,

curious of what you think that could do, you're offering commentary here, to others that are pursuing opportunities like this? Well, it takes two to tango. Clearly, the Evergreen people know that there's somebody to tango with, or they wouldn't be making threats. Other developments, I don't know, maybe people would welcome the kind of thing. Your guests next week, maybe that's something

that everybody around it would be happy to see. And if they're not gonna object to it now and try to keep the zoning administrator from approving it, maybe they won't later. And even this warning in Arlington, I mean, if you're really into speculation, you could buy that house on Troy. I don't think I'd pay 1.7 million for it,

but if I could buy it for 0.7 million, I might do that and hope that either the case will be resolved in favor of the of this county or that nobody will ever challenge the fact that it was built in violation of the ordinance. Does the entire new zoning ordinance need to be reconsidered or rewritten? Absolutely. It is a crime against nature. It really is the most radical thing anybody has done. People are proposing similar things in North Carolina.

I just heard yesterday there's something happening in Richmond. There are groups that are pushing this in Albemarle County. It's really, really important. It really is, as I said on the show before, and with apologies to the governor of Florida, I mean, I think Virginia will turn out to be where Yenbi goes to die. And I think what will happen, I hope what will happen,

and if people look at the material we have posted at altzoning.org, they will see that there are a number of things that cities can do to increase affordable housing that's positive. That's not attacking single family homeowners, but that's actually making it easier for homeowners who have service jobs and so forth to live in the city of Charlottesville and not have to commute from Louisa County. I totally agree with that. Pinkston and some of the councilors have said that the zoning ordinance is a living breathing document and is

they're willing to make make change. It seems like when the baseline is this radical though, even slight changes to it, don't do the justice that it needs to be completely rewritten, reimagined if you may. The only people who are stopping it right now are the plaintiffs in that lawsuit. If they've had, if the city has offered any kind of an olive branch, I'm completely unaware of that. But I strongly suspect that considering what it point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a asking questions of staff, particularly with respect to 303 Alderman. I know he's been told things that are not true,

and I would beg him and I would beg the other members of the city council when people on your staff, the city staff, not your personal staff, people on your staff are telling you stuff that's wrong, hold them accountable for that. Don't just snooze, get on them and get answers to things. And I think right now, like what you're suggesting Jerry, I think the best thing they could be doing would be asking about changes that could be made here that would make

the plaintiffs in this lawsuit go away. Very interesting. The same folks that pushed the new zoning ordinance through, the Yimbies, the activists in the city, now doing the same playbook in Albemarle County. They're backing Sally Duncan's campaign in the Jack Jewett district. They have nothing to do here in Charlottesville because of this lawsuit and because everything is in pretty much zoning purgatory. So now they've shifted their attention to the county I live in, Almarl. And folks, it makes me really nervous

because it's been an absolute fiasco in Charlottesville and that's not what Almarl County needs. 45 minutes in, anything else that should be out there for the viewers and listeners that are watching the program with media and elected officials watching you right now, Chair. The only thing I would add is that people should make certain to keep up with your show.

Thank you. And your coverage of this issue because other traditional media have seemed to have gone completely to sleep over this with the exception of the Daily Progress. And with Hawes. With Hawes and you know, that's what happens when you have a real journalist on your staff and hope is being paid appropriately.

They're playing the state song of D.C. here. I want you to know. Yeah, we hear them quite often right next to the police department. I feel like I'm back in D.C. That's the number one thing would be get your information from people who really are paying attention and who care about the facts. That's almost entirely your show. I appreciate that.

I would encourage for the subscribers of The Daily Progress to read what Hall has put online, what he wrote online. It was excellent coverage. I want to continue the dialogue with you in the future, if you don't mind. Welcome you anytime. I learn from you. I think the viewers and listeners absolutely are learning from you.

And you know, we're fortunate to have you in the community here, Jerry. Well please, I hope we can make this happen. We talked about it at the very end of the show last time. I would really, really be happy to have somebody with the opposite view sitting in that chair. With Evergreen. Yeah, Evergreen or the city.

You know, this would be, if they're willing to do it, the co-chairs of Livable Seaville, talking Matthew Gillican here, who is, frankly, primarily responsible for pushing this new zoning ordinance through. If you want to join us on set with Jerry Cox We would absolutely extend that invitation also Rory Stolzenberg the planning commissioner Who very much led the charge on this new zoning ordinance Rory Stolzenberg if you want to join us on set with Jerry Cox We would gladly host you on the program to talk both sides. Yeah, I'm tired of shadow boxing

I think it's time for a civilized host you on the program to talk both sides. Yeah I'm tired of shadow boxing. I think it's time for a civilized conversation about what's really at stake here and the thing I would want anybody on the other side to show me, I mean I am originally from Missouri, you know the show me state, I want them to show me one house, one project that has actually improved affordable housing. In Arlington, Alexandria, or here, I wanna see one property where that's happening. We'll continue the conversation, guys,

with Woolen Mills Court next week, Richard Price and Roger Voizadeh, which now with Alderman Road on ICE, what they're doing in Woolen Mills at Woolen Mills Court, and we'll show renderings, we will show architectural plans next week on the program. This is gonna be the first project to materialize under the new zoning ordinance. show renderings, we will show architectural plans. Next week on the program, this is going to be the first project to materialize under the new zoning ordinance. We'll also offer the

words of caution from the beginning of the program that you offered to the viewers and listeners to Roger and Richard next week as well. I thank you for your time. Thank you. I sincerely mean that. It was an honor to be here. Thank you. Thank you kindly for joining us. J you. I sincerely mean that. It was an honor to be here. Thank you kindly for joining us. Judah Wichauer behind the camera, Jerry Cox, my name is Jerry Miller, it's the I Love Seville Show archive, wherever you get your podcasting content.

And a huge week, ladies and gentlemen, of interviews coming up with, again, Roger and Richard next week along with the team that's developing the indoor pickleball facility in the old Marshall's location. They have plans. They're going to put in perspective the arduous process of bringing a business to market when you need a lot of permitting and a lot of approvals to do so. So we appreciate your time and thank you kindly for joining us and watching the I Love Seville Show. So long everybody. Can you tell us if the cameras are off?

Yeah..