The I Love CVille Show With Jerry Miller! - Jonathan Brenneman Joined Nate Kibler Live On “The White Mountain Ministries Show!”

Episode Date: August 27, 2024

Jonathan Brenneman of Heaven Now Missions joined Nate Kibler live on The White Mountain Ministries Show! The White Mountain Ministries Show airs live Tuesday from 2:30 pm – 3:15 pm on The I Love CVille Network. Watch and listen to The White Mountain Ministries Show on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn, iTunes, Apple Podcast, YouTube, Spotify, Fountain, Amazon Music, Audible and iLoveCVille.com.

Welcome to the White Mountain Ministry Show. I am your host, Nate Kibler. I thank you for watching. I thank you for listening. I thank you for praying, and I thank you for being a part of what the Lord is going to do through this show today. Hey, this ain't church, y'all, but it is all about the kingdom of God. We are very excited for the show today. We actually have an amazing man of God, Mr. Jonathan Brenneman. He is American born, but he now lives in Brazil and he is joining us live from Brazil right now. And this is going to be a great platform for Jonathan today. And I am not going to be sharing a word for the week. And Judah, we are ready to roll to have Jonathan on the screen whenever you can get him live with us. Guys, we thank you for sharing the show. Before I introduce Jonathan, I just want to say we thank you for the likes. We

thank you for the subscribes on the White Mountain Ministries page. And the most effective way that people can see this show, that people can get fed from everything that Jonathan is gonna bring to us today is by sharing the show on social media. There are thousands and thousands of people that I am not friends with, that Jonathan is not friends with,

that when you share this show, it will literally, and we have proven documentation of people that are being impacted by this show throughout the world because you are sharing it. So thank you for sharing the show. We appreciate you. So Jonathan, is he live? Is he on the screen yet, Judah? He's good. All right, Jonathan, you're good. Welcome. Okay, thanks. Yeah, thanks for being with us, brother. I know that you are in Brazil, but I do not know what city, what town. So can you tell us where you are right now today?

Yeah, I'm in a city called Goiânia, which is in the center of Brazil. Okay, amazing. Well, I believe, so we've had people on the show from different parts of the world, from India, from South Africa, different places, but they all live in America. So I do believe this is the first show we've actually done where our guest is in another country so we are officially international on the White Mountain Ministry Show so thank you for being the first guest to do that and I know you know Brazil gosh Brazil is an amazing country and I know that God is doing so many incredible things in that country I don't know if this is accurate but I've been told before that there are more supernatural miracles in Brazil than almost any country in the world. So is that accurate information there? There's probably places that have more miracles, but

the Holy Spirit's doing a lot here. Yeah, well, okay. Well, I know that you've been moving in power for many, many years. And I mean, gosh, you're one of those guys. I like to talk about how I met people. And so many people on this show I have longstanding relationships with. And I guess the truth is we have known each other for a long time, but not necessarily on a personal level. So much of our relationship has been through social media and through commenting on each other's pages and, and sharing our posts. We both are guys that for many years now have really, you know, we share a lot of testimonies, the things that we see God do. And I want to say, and you don't even know this,

but probably it was five or six years ago when I started, you know, moving and power and seeing miracles in my life, someone actually told me that you were someone that I needed to follow and be friends with on social media. So it's been a long time. And if it wasn't for other men and women around the world who are sharing these testimonies, which there's so much persecution that can come from it and so much, you know, resistance, I just want to encourage you and others that are doing that because of, you know, there were times where if it wasn't for the people on social media, I would have thought I was the only one. Because there's just not that lot of people that are moving in these things. So I thank you and honor you. And I just, I don't know if you want to touch

base on that at all or not, but get rolling, tell us about yourself and a little bit of your story. Yeah, well, I grew up in a Christian family, and I didn't know if God was real in spite of my upbringing. So I was really oppressed by the devil. I was suicidal, and I was kind of considering if God exists or not. And my mom prayed for me. I was like nine years old. I felt a ball of energy start rolling up and down my back. And I said, Mom, what are you doing? She said, I'm not doing anything. Jesus is healing you. I had a born again experience a few years after that. And then as a teenager, I completely dedicated my life to missions. When I was 14 years old, I went on my first trip to Mexico.

I started to learn languages. I read books about revival, prayer and fasting, all kinds of stuff like that. And that's what I wanted for my life. I wanted revival, wanted to be a missionary. But by the time I was 20, I was frustrated. I spent a lot of time praying. I'd learned to fast and it was like it wasn't working you know right so i felt frustrated with myself i felt frustrated with god i felt frustrated with the church i felt like god had been stingy with me i went to a conference and god corrected me he said i've always wanted to do these things in your life i'm generous um but the problem is it's not on my end the problem is, it's not on my end, the problem is your lack of understanding has hindered you. And the big thing, the first big thing that I needed correction on was I thought it was probably usually God's will to heal people, but there were some exceptions.

And I became convinced at that conference that it's always God's will to heal. And I saw for the first time, it's like I've been blind, I've been reading the Bible all these years, but I didn't get it. When I read about Jesus, he was moved with compassion and he healed people. And we hear that some people think it was just to show that he was God or to prove his divinity. No, it was his compassion. Yeah, that's so beautiful. So, gosh, it's good that you share that because so many of us we talk about this on the show a lot but we really don't know so many of us we don't know the heart of god and we don't know that like like you said i'd believe this as well that it is always god's desire to heal he doesn't want us sick he doesn't want us in pain he's a good father he loves us so

much and you know you hear this so many times from people who are, you know, it's like, well, let me ask you this. So were your parents, were they moving in the Holy Spirit as well? Was that something that was like a one-time thing that happened through your mom? Or were your parents people that also moved in the power of the Holy Spirit? Somewhat, because they had been to some event with Charles and Francis Hunter before I was born and they learned to pray for the sick but they weren't doing it like all the time everywhere but they prayed for me so my mom prayed for me that time and that happened but I wasn't like seeing them pray for people everywhere or anything yeah well gosh man I you know you are somebody I've had

a lot of respect for for a long time because, my goodness, you have so much knowledge, you have so much wisdom, you have so much revelation that clearly comes from the Holy Spirit. And it's like, I usually have a really good idea right away if somebody sends me a book or I have a short conversation with them to know if they're a religious man or if they're a kingdom man. And clearly you have been walking in the kingdom of God for a long time. And this is something that we spoke about. And I'm going to go ahead and talk about it now because I promised you that I would. You sent me a few weeks ago, you actually sent me a copy. How many books have you written? Maybe 10 or 11. I don't know. You don't even know. Look at that humility.

Love it. But you sent me your newest books, which is called, tell us the name of the book. The Mechanics of Miracles. The Mechanics of Miracles. And I started reading this book and I got to be honest with you, man. Like I have people, um, it's, it's interesting. I guess the Lord's telling me that I need to read more, but I only have so much time. But recently for like months, it's almost like literally every week someone has given me a new book to read. But I did make sure that I went through because I was honored because you let me read the book before it even became public and wanted to get my, you know, opinion on it, which I appreciate. And so I just have to say for anybody out there, this book,

honestly, like you can see that this is a man who has walked with God for a long time. You have so many incredible testimonies that I know that they are sincere because I can look at the way that the Lord has worked in my own life. And look, it's the same Holy Spirit in Brazil as it is in America, as he is in America. Right. He's the same. He's the same God. And you have so many scriptures to back it up. And you also have great teachings along with it, identity teachings and knowing who you are in Christ. And all of that is such a big part of walking in the supernatural, of representing Jesus, of sharing his heart and who he is and knowing who we are. So maybe you can talk about the book or just talk about anything that I just addressed.

Yeah, well, I guess the more that I've been doing this, it's like the more that you keep opening yourself up to the Holy Spirit, He expands your capacity for His compassion, because when you feel God's compassion, it's overwhelming. It's like too much for you at first. I've been having these years and years that my capacity has been expanding because the need is so great and God's love for people is so great that it'll get to be that I'll go to a place and I'll just come back crying and crying and I'll just say, like, Jesus, here I am. You can cry through me if you want to. And a lot of times that's what's happening.

There's a lot of tears and there's a lot of glory. There's a lot of times that's what's happening it's there's a lot of tears and there's a lot of glory there's a lot of miracles uh there's things like every week that i'm just in awe i just like whoa you know like deaf ears or um but it's it's more than just a supernatural it's just seeing people meet jesus it's seeing them encounter god's love. And so why I wrote the book is because I have been very convinced that ministering, healing, and deliverance is an essential part of being a disciple of Jesus. Being a disciple is more than just being saved. It's doing what Jesus taught, what Jesus did, and what he taught his disciples to do. And what he taught them to preach the gospel, it was power it was heal the sick cast out demons and in the great commission he told them to teach future disciples to do the same so now we have this tremendous need and it's like I just saw

Jesus manifest in glory and there's a guy with cancer and the pain leaves and he gets up out of his sickbed. And it's like wonderful. And then I think how many thousands of people more are in that situation. And I can't reach them. And it felt like the Lord said to me, or at least I perceived that what God wants to do in my state in Brazil is at least 10 10 000 times what i'm living right and so there need to be at least 10 000 people who are living this life of miracles that i'm living for god to do what he wants to do here and a lot of the church sees power and miracles as something at least in brazil a lot of people they believe in miracles they believe God can do miracles, but they kind of think like this, well, if God wants to, he can do it.

Yay, God did a miracle. But if it's not happening, then God must not have done it. And the reality I live is so much different. It's God is so full of compassion and generosity. He is longing to touch people. Jesus paid the highest price. He shed his blood so that people would receive redemption, receive healing, receive deliverance. And so the Holy Spirit wants to bring Jesus what he paid for. But it has to be through people that are working in partnership with him.

Right. And so it's not a matter of God doing things or not. It's a matter of how God's invisible spirit is manifest in power on this earth, how God's love is manifest in power through us. And if we're ignorant about spiritual things, we won't know how to enter into partnership with them. So I really believe there's this big need for the church to understand God's heart for people and to learn to partner with the Holy Spirit.

No, that's good. And by the way, thank you, Judah. I can't see the screen, but Judah said, I don't know if it's still up, but he did just share the cover of your book. I guess he went and found it, the cover of your book on the show. So on the screen, that is being seen as well. So yeah, it's interesting to hear you talk because I know a couple people that live in Brazil that are kingdom people. And the story that I've heard is that so many amazing miracles. But I hear you, and I think I've even seen this on social media before. And it's amazing because guys like you and I, it's like it's great that we're seeing these miracles. That's beautiful. But our desire, and I know that God's desire,

is that this is for all of his people. So I hear, I don't know if frustration might be too strong of a word, but I know and can hear from you talking that Jesus in you is desiring that everyone in Brazil and everyone in America and all these parts of the world are moving in this power that we know that signs and wonders can and should be a part of our life. So maybe you could talk about that a little more. Yeah, I've become more and more convinced that if the church doesn't have revival, it's because that's not what's important to the church. Because I've been with so many religious environments, and there's people that will be on the street, and people are seeing miracles happen all around we go to a snack bar and a young guy asked me he's a new convert he was just an atheist a few months ago how does this work and i explained a few things to him i explained about god revealing his will in jesus that we have an open heaven because jesus body was torn

that we have authority that god wants to move it's not a matter of God acting or not acting, but it's a matter of us knowing his heart, knowing his will, and entering into partnership with him. Now, this young guy has seen blind eyes open. He's seen cancer healed. He's seen a guy get out of a wheelchair, HIV healed, and like a new Christian. And yet in the local church, the most part it's almost like they don't care it's almost like yeah this is nice but um it's not the most important thing to us you know and and I'm like man when when I was in the U.S. and we had like a third of our youth and the

youth group had seen miracles through their hands wow Wow. Remind me where that was. That was when I was in Lancaster. You know, that was a long time ago because Pennsylvania to Brazil. And yeah, yeah. I don't know what it is about that town of Lancaster, but I hear so many amazing, powerful stories about things that God does in Lancaster, Pennsylvania. Is there anything that you can, do you know, is that verified through you or what? Well, there are a lot of missionaries that come out of there. Okay. Very interesting. Yeah, but anyways, it's like it's available and it's almost like there's so many programs

that the church doesn't have time for it. And then the people are seeing, the people see, they're like, people see, I pray for someone at a barbecue and a demon comes out, or people are falling on the ground on the sidewalk. No, I'm with you, brother. In the last six years of many, many miracles and healings that I have seen, I don't know the percentage on it, but a very high percentage of the people that I've seen healed, freed, radically touched by as a visitor to a church service is the place least conducive to acting as a member of the body of Christ and seeing God move in power. I mean, I was in a restaurant, right? Yeah, tell us about that a little more. I want to hear them up and stuff, but they don't know what they're talking about. Because it was supposed to be a supernatural group talking about supernatural ministry and healing and prophecy. And it was just kind of like a normal prayer meeting.

And I didn't see them like finding people who needed healing, or laying their hands, they would maybe have prayer requests for people in other places who needed to be healed. And then at the end of this, I'm like, hey, if anyone still has pain, you know, I'd like to pray for them when we're done, you know, they're like, okay, and then all these people start getting healed after the program after the whatever they were doing, you know and they're like okay and then all these people start getting healed after the program after the whatever they were doing you know um and i'm having people lay their hands on each other and they're being healed and it's like even the the leaders are leading the supernatural group but they don't know how to minister with authority and and ask the person what they feel when you're

done praying you know very basic things but uh so all these people were being healed after this. Then we went out to a pizzeria and I saw kind of in my mind's eye, like this dark spot on the shoulder of the manager. So I asked her about her arm and she said, yeah, it's hurting. I said, well, Jesus is healing you. I prayed for her and all the pain left. And then I went back to her and I said, hey, it's hurting. I said, well, Jesus is healing you. I prayed for her and all the pain left. And then I went back to her and I said, hey, you know, if anyone else who's working here has pain in their body, maybe, you know, someone we could pray for them and Jesus will heal them too. And so she took me all around to every worker at that pizzeria and every person who had pain was

healed instantly and completely a pain. I mean, sometimes we pray several times and that's fine. Sometimes we're like going after it, but it was literally like, pain go in Jesus' name, and it was all gone. And more than half of the people working at the pizzeria had strong pain, strong chronic pain in their bodies. Every person working at the pizzeria that had glasses, we prayed until they said they could see perfectly without their glasses wow and then there's this lady that um she was kind of suicidal and the lord spoke about giving her uh some money so we gave her a hundred hey eyes and i think a demon probably came out of her she was crying a lot and then she felt all relieved. So I believe she received

deliverance. And we're there in the pizzeria shouting loudly, thank you, Jesus. Thank you, Jesus. That's the kingdom of God. It's amazing when Jesus shows up, however, when they see he's there, everybody wants a piece then, right? Yeah, similar experiences in all kinds of different places, in a beauty salon, you know. But there's just so many things about the way that we have a program that it doesn't allow the church to act as the body of Christ. I mean, the music is so loud, at least where I am, the music is so loud that someone comes up and prophesies to you and you can't even hear what they said. And then you could pray for someone, but you can't ask what they felt because you can't hear. And that's even in the places that allow for more freedom and participation, but everything is just so loud that it's like I see people healed and

delivered before and after church services so many times, but not during them, you know? Yeah, I mean, you know, it's interesting, of course, what you're saying, and as you can see, literally the motto of this show is, this ain't church, y'all, and that is not to knock the church, but to just let people know that it can be different. Oh yeah, and I'm seeing some stuff in different places in the United States where it is different, where there's people who are really making Jesus' priorities their priorities, and they want to see people healed and delivered. Yeah, it's happening, and I choose to keep my eyes fixed on, you know, the amazing things that God is doing. And look, I think, and again, a lot of social media, people can be thanked from social media that, um, I do believe that this is happening.

You know, people get online and they're sharing videos of miracles and they're sharing videos of people being set free. And you can say, well, that's not real. That's fine. But a lot of people, when they watch those things, they're the Holy spirit's going to touch their heart and they're going to know that that's truth. Yeah. Yeah. Um,, so we're going to go, I had a question here that's already really what we're talking on, but the specific question that you had mentioned, the need for laborers in the harvest and to prioritize what is important to Jesus. Yeah, yeah. Well, healing and deliverance were a large part of what Jesus spent his time doing. And the reality is now I have people calling me

from all over the world because they need healing, because they're having problems with demons, and they haven't found the help they need in their local church. And at least in the local churches, where I see around here, where there's some local churches here in Brazil where there's a missions movement and the Lord is doing some wonderful stuff and there are people on fire for the Lord. But I still don't see, at least in the main leadership, that prioritizing of what matters to Jesus.

And it's almost like there's charismatic churches, lots of shouting, but I don't see the people being healed or set free of demons in their services like I see everywhere else, you know. So I think we need to understand that if we're going to follow Jesus, be disciples, it can't be keeping people as spectators dependent on us. If we're going to raise up the disciples... Spectator Christianity where one guy gets on a stage, right? Yeah, yeah, we have to teach people

because there are people with so many problems and the church doesn't even know what to do with them. And then somehow I'm kind of a little bit of an outsider to the system. I have fellowship with people from a lot of churches, but what happens is that they're sending me people, and the times I do go to a church service, they're always pulling me out because someone is having problems with a demon or someone really needs healing or something, and they're just pulling me out of the church. It's interesting that you say that because it's like in America, they're like, oh, well, there's

not any demons in our church. I can tell you right right now if you think there's no demons in your church that's because there's no one moving enough power that makes them uncomfortable that they get exposed yes yes true you know it's like like you say you walk into that church and those things start squirming right just because you're because you're carrying the kingdom of God with you. No religiosity, no doing church. You are bringing the kingdom with you. So, you know, you're clearly an atmosphere changer. So why don't you, because you're a Holy Spirit taught man and the Holy Spirit, what is it, John 14, the Holy Spirit said he will teach us all things. So how did the Holy Spirit teach you to start living this kingdom life?

Okay, well, at that conference, I just became convinced it's God's will to heal. I felt weak. I felt like I didn't have faith. But I decided I'm going to start praying for everybody that I get the chance. I'm going to minister to them. And I don't care if I pray for a thousand people and nobody gets healed. I'm going to keep praying and God is going to take me to that place of having faith. So I think that was about 20 years ago. And I started just saturating myself in testimonies. I was reading testimonies. Way back then, they had the Bethel website and they started posting testimonies there. It was before there were even so many testimonies on YouTube. But I would go to the Global Awakening website, the Bethel website, and I would find testimonies and

I would read them for hours. And then I would tell people about what I've seen until I'd either start laughing or crying. I'm praying for everyone. After about two weeks of seen until I'd either start laughing or crying and praying for everyone. After about two weeks of that, I met the youth group and my hands start vibrating. And I told the youth pastor, this is what happened at that conference. I think I need to pray for people. So three of the youth got healed. And not long after that, then my great aunt came. She had her back was all compressed and bent over and her vertebrae were calcified together i started telling her about how i became convinced of god's will to heal and the

testimonies of what i saw happen at that conference and we i started saying in jesus name back straight and not be healed and she said i feel like a soldier i feel something pulling up on me and she felt something like a rope on the top of her head pulling her up and we watched her back straighten out. Wow. So a few years of that. So it sounds like you said you would have prayed for a thousand people and kept going, but it sounds like you were nowhere near that number, right?

No. It sounds like it happened very quickly for you. I was living a life of miracles after two weeks yeah wow yeah that's actually similar similar to me the holy spirit the night i was delivered i was crying like a baby the first thing he said to me he said you're gonna do this too i had never prayed for anyone like over someone like that in my life three days later i was praying for people in the streets five weeks after that i started seeing instant miracles and that's not like the normal story though so like you know so todd white I think he prayed for like a couple thousand people. I think

I heard him say before he ever saw anyone get healed. And we focus, I think, way too much on the numbers. I don't know what your thoughts are on this, but look, if we pray for a hundred people that have cancer and even one of them gets healed, why would we ever stop? Oh, yeah. Yeah, for sure. I see a lot more healed than that. Of course. You know, we grow. We're growing in Christ, so there's no reason to stop. Yeah.

So, Nate, after that, I went through some real ups and downs. I went through places where I felt religious judgmentalism, and I wondered if I was arrogant, but I was actually feeling people's judgments. So it's kind of like a form of religious witchcraft that I faced. But then I learned to recognize that and recognize that people just don't understand, but we love them anyways. So I went to Brazil somewhere in those early years with Randy Clark's group, and I realized that a lot of sicknesses and pains are actually demons because they would move around in the body. So I came back. I would say with my experience, more times than not, that's what's going on.

Yeah, it's actually surprising how often it happens you know but we see it pretty often then um i met dan moeller which that was a story that was before that was kind of in the early days when todd white was still he's just a local guy to us and he was um like he wasn't famous uh he was delivering ice to beverage distributors. But some guy from my church married a woman from Dan Mohler's church. And then they're like, hey, you're praying for people all the time. You need to meet Dan Mohler. So I went to this meeting.

By the way, for anybody who does not know Dan Mohler, sorry to interrupt. If you do not know Dan Mohler, it's M-O-H-L-E-R, research, Google that man's name and watch some of his teachings because he's probably, look, to me, he may be the best identity teacher on the planet. And he's actually, he's not just talking to talk, he's walking the walk. And anybody who I know who knows Dan personally, I've met Dan once, he is the real deal. And it's interesting because when I first started walking in the kingdom, I was like, Lord, like where, where, where have I, like, where can I find people like this? And the person that he gave me was Dan Moeller. And I learned so much from Dan. So

keep going. Oh yeah, that's, that's true. We really appreciate Dan and the Lord has done so, like so many people are impacting the world. We find out that they somehow were touched by Dan Moeller's life or Dan Moeller's example. But so anyways, see, I still had some areas of confusion because I believe God wants to heal. But I kind of thought that the person should have faith that you're praying for. And I really wasn't clear on that. And it didn't make sense because how are you going to use healing and miracles to reach the lost, to reach people who don't believe if they have to believe for the healing to happen, you know? So, so I started going to this meeting in a firehouse with Dan Moeller and I think it

was Thursday nights. And like I said, it was before, it was before anyone knew who Todd White was. It was before he left his job. He was just delivering ice. He was just this young convert that Dan led to the Lord, you know. That was in Brazil? No. So Dan and Todd were in York County, and that's next to Lancaster County where I lived.

Okay, that's right. So sometimes you would go to churches in York County. Yeah. So that was there in Lancaster County. It was a firehouse somewhere in Lancaster County, pretty far from actually where they lived. I think they drove more than an hour to get there. But they would have this weekly meeting at a firehouse. I asked Dan some questions,

kind of the tough questions, and maybe it might have looked like I was disagreeing with him, but actually I wanted to, I wanted to agree with him, but I wanted to be convinced. And so he just answered my questions with a big smile. And I stopped worrying about the people I was ministering to having faith. And I started to really grow ministering to unbelievers and ministering on the streets. And there's a lot of growth that happened. I think there's a lot that I've seen in the last five years that there's something in me that's different, the perseverance, the persistence. I don't give up. Let me ask your thoughts on this, because in my experience, oftentimes I see more unbelievers that if they open their heart to prayer, I almost see more unbelievers get healed than people who are actually believers.

Do you have anything you can say on that? Yeah. is the hardest people, the hardest people to minister to, either the religious or sometimes people who have really dedicated themselves to Satan and they don't even want you to touch them. And they're like, but even a lot of people who look really dark are very open, you know. Right. I just always believe if there's an unbeliever, if there's an unbeliever that opens their heart up to God, they're about to get rocked how about that yeah yeah but actually the religious

people i think one of the worst kinds of unbelief is that religious unbelief where you accept the doctrine and you act like it's not true like you say we believe god's heals i believe jesus lives in me and then a person needs ministry and you don't lay your hands on them. So like I was in this service and there's this guest people, guest minister yelling, people are going to get out of wheelchairs in this church. And I look and there's a guy right there in a wheelchair and I don't see anyone laying hands on him. And I went and laid hands on the guy. But then two weeks later, I laid hands on a guy at the bus stop right outside of the church. And the guy gets out of a wheelchair

and walks. So why don't you share with us a little bit because you're such a, I mean, you have so much going on. I mean, your posts and my gosh, so much revelation. And one of the things you were talking about were the workings of miracles and the lightning analogy. Can you share with us what that is? Because I do not know what that is. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So here's the thing that most all of us have learned to see God through experience. And the Bible says that he's an invisible spirit. And in Corinthians, where it starts off in the book about spiritual gifts, actually in the Greek it doesn't have the word gifts there in 1 Corinthians 12. It says spiritual things. And the first verse in that chapter is,

I don't want you to be ignorant about spiritual things. Our translations say spiritual gifts, but it just says spiritual things. So the Bible says that God is spirit. Those who worship him was worship in spirit and in truth, and he's invisible. Nobody has ever seen God. And Jesus is the image of the invisible God. So an ignorance about spiritual things causes people just to think that God will do what he wants. And if he wants to do miracles, he'll do it. And if the miracles aren't happening like that, it's because God's not doing it. God's not acting that way now.

God hasn't sent revival. All these kind of things like that. But my understanding is this comes down to the incarnation and the redemption that God accomplished for us in Christ. God gave man authority on earth. So he's invisible, but his purpose was that his invisible nature would be seen and manifest through mankind. But all men sinned. So our image of God got distorted.

And there's none righteous, no not one. Every one of us has gone our own way. The Lord laid on Jesus the iniquity of us all. And so what we see in life isn't a reflection of who God is, but it's a reflection of man who's sinned and fallen short of God's glory. Yet most of us are getting this distorted image of the invisible God. We're trying to see the invisible God through life, through what people have done to us, through our experiences.

And you can't see God like that. And so part of the good news of the incarnation is that God gave mankind authority on earth. He's all powerful, but he's not all controlling. The heavens belong to the Lord, but the earth he's given to the sons of men. So now Jesus comes as a man, given the keys of dominion and authority on this earth. A visible man, someone we can touch, the tangible realm. But God, the supernatural, the invisible realm. So Jesus comes as God and man, as a sinless man in perfect communion with the Father.

And God's invisible nature manifests once again in this visible realm through Jesus. And the Bible says that all of God's promises are yes and amen in Jesus, and the yes comes from God and the amen comes from us. So God, he is full of desire to touch people. He's full of compassion. One of his names, his very character, is I'm the Lord who heals you. And so God is extremely generous.

The Bible says if God didn't withhold his own son but gave him up for us all, how much more will he not with him also give us all things? That's the heart of the invisible God. But there's this way that his invisible nature is manifest and it's through this connection with mankind and the earth realm. And so the yes comes from God, the amen comes from us. We have authority on earth. And all the promises of God are yes and amen in Jesus because Jesus came as God and man. And in Jesus we see a man's amen meeting God's yes. The amen of man with authority on the earth meets God's yes. And so now as Christians we're washed by Jesus' blood. We have access to the Father's presence. And we're here as the body of Christ on the earth. And we could see God by looking at Jesus. He is

the image of the invisible God. He said, if you've seen me, you've seen the Father. God has made known the mystery of his will, revealing it in Christ. And so in Colossians 1, it says about what happens when you understand God's will, that it's through the understanding of God's will that we're strengthened, that we bear much fruit, that we lead a life pleasing to God. Bearing fruit in every good work. Growing in the knowledge of the Lord. That we have perseverance.

If we don't know God's will, then we're going to be weak. We're not going to bear fruit. We're not going to live a life of faith that pleases God. And so it's the very opposite. And so the dynamics of miracles is that we connect with the invisible God, seeing him in Jesus, beholding his glory in the face of Jesus, beholding the goodness of God in Jesus. And we enter this communion with God that we've been made righteous. And so communion has to do with having something in common, right?

So righteousness makes us light as God is light. And so our thoughts and our lives are filled with light, are filled with compassion, because our sins have been washed away by the blood of Jesus. And we walk in this communion, and it's like we're charged with God's glory. And then there's something that we say or do that releases the lightnings of heaven.

So it's like when you have lightning, there's this cloud up there, right? And the cloud is actually a giant capacitor. A capacitor stores an electrical charge and releases it suddenly. So there's the clouds up there, but you don't see any manifestation. But the fact is that those clouds are becoming filled with electricity. There's a lot of volts up there in the air, right? But we don't see it. We don't see it. And that's like the invisible God. And that electricity is actually created by static, by these particles of ice and water moving together.

And it starts to charge the cloud. So it's in the same way by communion with the Holy Spirit, by seeing God, the invisible God, by looking at Jesus, we start to get charged. But there's something that happens that a conductive path is formed. And so all of a sudden, that charge becomes so strong that it causes the air to become ionized and this streamer to reach up from the ground. It's invisible unless you have some special instrument to look at invisible light. And all of a sudden the atmosphere changes and there's this conductive path and there's lightning.

And so what was invisible becomes tangible becomes manifest and the way that happens it has to do with a heart mouth connection in us it has to do with we're in communion with god but there's this point where it's important that we have a whole heart that it's not a divided heart it's a not an if a maybe that we have a whole heart that is carried away, that is consumed with God's love, that's consumed with God's presence. Because it doesn't work if it's just halfway. It doesn't work if you're like double-minded. The Bible says a double-minded man can't expect to receive anything from the Lord.

And then out of that, what comes out of your mouth comes from the Lord. And then out of that, what comes from out of your mouth comes from the heart. And so when there's that connection, there's a whole heart, a heart carried away by God's love, by this heavenly reality, this invisible reality, and then that comes out of a mouth, and that comes out of our mouth, and there's no if, there's no maybe, there's nothing about it. It's wholehearted. It's not like the Pharisees that they said that there are people that would speak and their words would fall to the ground, right? But Samuel's word doesn't fall to the ground in the Old Testament.

Then they said that Jesus, he spoke with authority, right? So we can speak with authority or we can speak half-hearted. But when there's that heart revelation of God's goodness and there's that connection with our mouth, it's like the lightning strike. And sometimes it's also an action. But it's really simple. It's adding our amen to God's yes, whether by an action or by words. But just the fact that a lot of people don't understand that there are dynamics and mechanics to it,

a lot of people don't experience a supernatural because they think, well, God just hasn't sent revival or God hasn't decided to do this, you know. And we need that revelation of his love, his compassion that's so big. I know I'm getting you geared up, man. You're rolling now. But hey, we thank everybody for watching today. I know that Jonathan is going to bring a new audience to the show.

So if you are from a different country, if you're in Brazil, if you're watching around the world, wherever you are, just please tell us where you're watching the show from. And we appreciate you're watching the show from. And we appreciate you share the show. This is how the show is being watched by people around the world because people are sharing the show. It's so much power in sharing. And so thank you guys for doing that. Jonathan, you, something that I read in your book, we were talking about not emphasizing the gifts too much because, you know, in the charismatic church, look, we know that the gifts are important. We know that the gifts are without repentance. The gifts are talked about multiple times and many times really in the Bible. But anyways, I read this directly in your

book. It says, Christians often disqualify themselves from what is available to all of us because they think of it as a spiritual gift. End of quote. That sounds like you, right? Do you write that? Yes. Yes. Okay, good.

So can you touch base about that even more? Okay, so there's a big confusion about that area because we're reading the Gospels, and it's very clear in Jesus' teaching that these things are for all believers. So all disciples are taught to heal the sick, cast out demons. It says that these signs will follow those who believe. Jesus said, those who believe in me

will do the same works and greater works. These signs will follow those who believe. They'll speak in new tongues. They'll lay hands on the sick and they'll recover. They'll cast out demons. So tongues are for all believers. Healing is for all believers. Deliverance is for all believers. The Bible says you can all prophesy one by one. Let me ask you this real quick, because this is such a controversial subject in the church. You said that tongues are for all believers. So I just had a conversation with a woman about this today. Do you believe that if you are born again, that the ability, the gift to speak in tongues, is it already inside you?

Well, I'd say the Bible says be baptized in the Holy Spirit, right? Right. Receive power from the holy spirit so i believe but do you believe that there are people that have been baptized by the holy spirit that are not yet speaking in tongues that can i think it's possible you know actually i received it but i didn't know i received it because i didn't understand how it worked and then um i thought i hadn't received it and then later i started shouting out in gibberish and i thought i was just shouting out in gibberish and i started to realize i was speaking in tongues but we should never make a method for just about

anything right never put god in a box of how you can do something so here's the thing though that we have fullness in christ but there's more for us to walk in. Like if you have the Spirit of Jesus in you, that's the fullness of God is in Christ, right? But that doesn't mean that you realize what you have and you're going to walk in it. And the Bible says the Holy Spirit reveals to us what we've been freely given. So there's a big difference between just having it available in you and the Holy Spirit revealing to you what you have and walking in that. There's a lot of people that have the gift to prophesy, the gift to heal the sick that have never done it before, right?

Could be. Could be. Well, here's the thing, though. I don't really believe in gifts in the way that most people think of them yeah go ahead so that's what i'm that's what i'm getting at yeah go ahead getting it so um when you read the bible in greek the gift is the holy spirit so i believe in one gift that's the holy spirit and the bible talks about in corinthians what i was saying in first corinthians, we read about gifts

in our translations, but that word gift isn't there in the Greek. So first it just says, I don't want you to be ignorant about spiritual things. The word gifts was inserted by the interpreters or translators. And then it goes on and it uses the word charisma. And so charis is grace and ma is effect. So these are manifestations of the grace of God or manifestations of God's grace. So anyways, the context of this is talking about a meeting when we come together as the church. And it's basically saying that it's not supposed to be a one-man show. God might have you ministering healing and someone else is ministering with a prophetic word and someone else is ministering with something else. It's talking

about what's happening at the moment. It's not talking about what you're capable of or not capable of. So if you have the Holy Spirit, all of these grace effects are available to you, basically. And what people call a spiritual gift, it's better to say a grace effect or a manifestation of God's grace. And it's the individual thing that's happening at that moment. It's not a superpower that you get or you don't get so it's not like you get the superpower of healing but not the superpower of prophecy no you get the holy spirit but at one moment he may be ministering through prophecy through you but in the same at the same time in the same meeting he's ministering healing through another person or word of knowledge through another person.

So all of it is available to all of us, but it's not supposed to be a one-man show. So when I go to preach at a church, the Lord spoke to me. He said, I want you to honor Jesus by honoring the members of his body, the church. So I have everybody minister to each other. I don't just have this line of people for me to pray for. And so many of the people are already healed. Is that Dan Moeller thing? I saw Dan Moeller do that. That's Dan Moeller's thing too, right? Did you get that from Dan?

Maybe partly. I probably get it partly from Bill Johnson too. Bill Johnson also taught us to ministry to each other like that. I had a healing through Dan, by the way. Of course, I know it's the Lord, but Dan was doing that one time. I don't know who had their hand on my shoulder, but I know that I had a shoulder injury that I didn't even realize it. But I got healed the night that Dan came to speak in that way, too. So it's very cool.

Yeah. I mean, we've seen a hundred percent or close to a hundred percent of people healed doing that. And it's more effective than if I will pray for everyone myself. Right. And then if there's still people who need to be healed, I'll pray for them. But first I'll have everyone pray,

minister to each other at least two times. And it's so much better that way i mean people who have never seen a miracle are seeing miracles happen through their hands yeah you're exactly right yeah you don't want it i mean we get we get uh this uh uh hero christianity where the guy on the stage i mean he ends up being the god in people's eyes. That's definitely not what the Lord desires. Yeah. So it's good that you guys are doing that.

New Christians, people have never seen a miracle. That recovery house, great miracles happening through them. There's this young girl, and the Lord told me, I'll get things like the day before we go or on the day that we're going. So before we arrive at the recovery house i might have five conditions that i know the lord that the lord is going to heal and so um one of those one time was this tumor in the throat and so i was naming the conditions and people are raising their hands that's me that's me and so there was a lady that had the tumor in

her throat it was very tangible like you could touch it from the outside and people felt it and we had a 20 year old girl there and i'm like rebecca why don't you help us and pray for this lady here now i could have prayed for her and the thing would have disappeared but it's so much better to have rebecca it's like this 20 year old young girl lay hands, and three minutes later, Rebecca's all in tears, and I said, what happened? She says, I prayed, and it's gone. The tumor isn't there anymore. So do you consider that to be like with Jesus when he sent out the disciples? Do you consider that to be like delegated authority in that moment, or how would you describe that yeah in a way it is but the thing is that um what happens is that when we read that these translations that are talking about spiritual

gifts and we get the misconception as if they're superpowers almost separate from receiving the holy spirit then we also tend to separate them from the understanding that these are manifestations of who Jesus is, basically. Because Jesus is full of grace and truth. Jesus is the embodiment of God's grace. All of these things, healing, deliverance, they're called in the Greek grace effects. They're simply manifestations of God's grace. And a lot of Christians have started to think of spiritual gifts, almost as special superpowers, as if they were separate from the Spirit of Jesus. And I could show you for every one of these manifestations of God's grace,

there are promises in the Bible that any one of us can take a hold of, to prophesy, to minister healing, to receive words of knowledge, words of wisdom. And so we have a biblical basis for each one of these. And if you're thinking, I didn't get that superpower, you're basically disqualifying yourself when there's promises in the Bible concerning that, that you can minister healing, that you can hear God's voice, that you can prophesy. So Tom Floss, when you're having fun. The show always flies for us. So we are running close to the end.

How much time we have, Judah? Where are we? So what is that, 10 minutes? Okay. So anything else on your heart that you would like to share that you feel like, you know like the Lord's put on your heart that our viewers would benefit from? Yeah, the power is in the gospel. It's not something that's secret, that's hidden, that's more complicated. It's something more simple.

So much of the time, what is keeping people from walking in God's power is that we're basically acting like the gospel isn't true. We have the theology. Say, if you understand what Jesus' death means for us, that the Holy of Holies in Hebrews 9 was heaven itself. In Hebrews 10, it says, boldly enter the Holy of Holies, and the veil that was torn is Jesus' body. So, look, we have an open heaven because of Jesus' body being torn for us, but so much of the church activity, at least where I live, I don't know how it is where you guys are,

but people are begging God to open the heavens. They're basically denying Jesus' death. They're acting as if it weren't true that we have full access to God the Father. And there's so many other ways that we act as if Jesus never died, as if he never resurrected. And this is the message that is producing the manifestation of God's glory when we go to recovery houses and we're seeing these crazy miracles. It's just Jesus paid the highest price for you and he deserves what he paid for. And what's going to happen tonight,

your healing, your deliverance, has nothing to do with you deserving it or you not deserving it. It has to do with what Jesus deserves. He loves you. He paid a high price for your life. This is the simple gospel message, and this is what's producing the manifestation of God's glory. I feel like the church is saying, God come, God come, God come. And he's like, church, go, church, go, church, go. Because if you go to those people, then the Holy Spirit will manifest his love and compassion. Yeah. I always like to say that we are all, so many of us were waiting for God, but the reality is, is God is waiting on us. Yes. Yes. So I'll put you on the spot a little bit. You may not have even watched the show before.

I'm not sure, but I like to ask my guests this towards the end of the show. So we are in Charlottesville, Virginia. It's very strategic where this show actually is even filmed. It was all orchestrated by the Lord, and it's for a bigger purpose from the Lord for our region. So I don't know if the Lord puts anything on your heart, if you have anything for the show, or if you have anything for our region, for the city, the town of Charlottesville. Hmm.

I just say pray for great joy to come to your city. Great joy to come to the city. That's one of those power phrases that just sweeps my heart away. When I'm praying for people, what happened in the book of Acts, that people were being healed and delivered of demons. And it says in Samaria there was great joy in the city. And so I pray that for where I live. I just raised my voice. I say let great joy come to this city in Jesus? Amen. And so I pray that for where I live. I just raised my voice. I say, let great joy come to this city in Jesus' name. And I'm ministering to people. God, thank

you for opening these eyes that Jesus' name be glorified and honored in this city, in this state. Multiply your works among us. And so pray like that. Pray that when you minister healing, that the name of Jesus be glorified. Multiply your works among us, Holy Spirit. And begin to press in like that. Jesus said he saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven after the disciples went out and ministered healing and deliverance. So there's something regionally that happens when we persevere in ministering, healing, and deliverance. And we all want to see it come to the point that everyone is talking

about Jesus everywhere in our cities, in our regions. Absolutely. Absolutely. So you're a man that's seen healing manifest in so many different ways. The Bible says, lay hands on the sick and they will be healed. But it doesn't say that you have to lay hands on the sick for them to be healed. So release some fire. Pray for the people that are watching the call that need healing in their bodies, that need freedom in their bodies before you go. Okay. God, thank you for your goodness over every person that's listening. Let it be like a weight of your glory over them in jesus name thank you holy spirit for glorifying jesus name we commend every affliction to get out of their bodies that their bodies be inundated with god's presence now in jesus name that jesus name would be honored all of the pain

go every disease get out cancer go in jesus you, Holy Spirit, for your mighty works among us. Thank you for multiplying your works in our day, in our cities, in our towns, that the name of Jesus will be honored and glorified, that the mighty works of the Holy Spirit would be on the news in Jesus' name. In Jesus' name, in Jesus' name, that people will begin to have revelations, that their eyes will be open to see Jesus. Thank you, God. Amen. Amen. Yes. Thank you, brother. Beautiful, powerful. And just thank you for being on the show. Thank you for your time away from your family. I know

that you have, you have, how many children do you have? Two kids. Two kids. How old are they? Two and 10. Okay. Well, that's a beautiful thing. Children are a gift. I just speak life and love and health and protection over you, over your family, over your children, over your home, over your ministry. I speak revival in Brazil. I thank you for more signs and wonders. I thank you for more, Lord. I thank you for more that Jonathan, what he is carrying, who you are in him, Lord, is going to shine, is going to manifest through many, many people in Brazil. And I thank you for the day, Lord, that you are going to send me, that Jonathan and I will be in Brazil ministering together for the gospel, for the kingdom of God in Jesus' name. Amen. So say bye to everybody.

We're going to go off the air now. Okay. Bye, guys. Guys, we just thank you for listening. We're going to go off the air now. Okay, bye guys. Guys, we just thank you for listening. We thank you for watching and being with us. And I speak life and love and healing over your bodies in the name of Jesus. We thank you for being a part of what the Lord is doing through this show. And we will see you next week. And God bless. Thank you.