The I Love CVille Show With Jerry Miller! - Kelly Johns & Lee Mccraw-Leavitt Joined Michael Urpí & Nickolas Urpí On “Today y Mañana!"

Episode Date: October 17, 2024

Kelly Johns, Owner of Terra Ethos Studio, and Lee Mccraw-Leavitt, Owner of Lee McCraw-Leavitt Arts, joined Alex Urpí & Nickolas Urpí On “Today y Mañana!” “Today y Mañana” airs every Thursday at 10:15 am on The I Love CVille Network! “Today y Mañana” is presented by Emergent Financial Services, LLC, Craddock Insurance Services Inc, Charlottesville Opera and Matthias John Realty, with Forward Adelante.

Good morning, everyone, and welcome to Today and Manana. I'm Michael, happy to be joined by Nicholas. We were just talking a little fall weather. It's definitely a little cold these past few days, so as Alex would say, today, now's a good time to grab your hot cafe con leche, I would think. Yeah, make it hot, yeah. Hot cafe con leche, double shot espresso. Get comfy and watch them today, manana.

We've got a great show lined up. We've got two fantastic guests waiting. They're interviewed. We're going to have Lee McCraw-Levitt and Kelly Johns, both fantastic local artists, neighbors of our own Nicholas. Yeah, they're both neighbors. I have two abstract artist neighbors, one on each side. Exactly, yeah.

Like you. Hopefully they're providing some inspiration for him. I mean, you used to do a little painting, art, drawing. Well, I was four. Yeah, but you used to be good. When I was four. Our mom is always upset whenever, because my brother Nicholas actually,

like Alex and I were like probably the two worst artists. I used to, when I was in first grade. Ever. No, I'm just kidding. Potentially. I remember first grade, my first grade teacher was a big art person right so she'd make us do

arts and crafts and every time she would always be upset like Michael you didn't try and I said no Mrs. Herady I tried I'm not good and finally at the end of the at the end of like the school year she finally gave me back because we used to get like little fake school money right and what happens is

when she thought you did something wrong she said you gotta give me back some of your school money, right? Well, at the end of the school year, she gave it all back to me, the ones that she took, because she said, I'm sorry, because it's not your fault. You really did try. You were just really that bad. And I was like, that's what I've been telling you all year. I'm not good at arts and crafts.

But Nick was really good, and my mom was always upset, because she's like, I should have pushed harder for him to go to art school, because he used to do some good stuff but we still saved your like art stuff like downstairs in the basement hanging on the basement i'm like exactly your own gallery yeah i know there's no guy we should start charging people to go you know look at nicholas herpy for yourself yeah well let's see if i get big enough then it'll be like look what he did look what he did it for i know yeah there's always that joke that like parents always do that where it's like you go to their house when they got little kids it's like they have the frame paintings of like the

three-year-old drawing this ugly drawing and people are like oh it's nice and then people are like it's like why you got that drawing i don't know my mother was like do you want it i was like no yeah but you but elizabeth probably wanted it no she didn't oh she probably does she didn't i think she was she kept one thing because she thought it was amusing but i'm like i don't know i'm waiting for the day when i can throw it out when she's not looking well it's never too late it's never to become an artist yeah that's a good point exactly and you got two neighbors who are artists so you oh you got it right there it's all right in front of you i think michael's trying to push me to become an artist

but to quit the business. Well, it's like on the side. You never know. You could be the next Van Gogh. I don't think so. I'll cut off my ear first. Well, let me quickly do the sponsor list. We are always happy to be presented by our sponsors, Emergent

Financial Services, powered by Craddock Series Insurance, Matisse Young Realty, and Forward Adelante, the premier Latino networking business group here in Charlottesville. I mean, I don't know about you. Our guests are already right in, so let's just jump to it.

Oh, Charlottesville Opera. Which they have a duet series starting tomorrow, in case anyone's interested, at Friday at 7.30. This coming Friday? Yeah, tomorrow, Friday, yes. Oh coming Friday? Yeah, tomorrow, Friday. Yes, as in... Oh, yeah. It's tomorrow, Friday.

It's Thursday, right? It is Thursday. Every week, we do it on Thursday. Tomorrow, Friday at 7.30 at the First Presbyterian. Oh, okay. They're starting a duet series and they're going to be doing them...

Oh, I don't know how often they're doing them. I was going to say every month, but I know it's at least every month. And they've announced... Have they announced what they're doing next year for the opera? Yeah, it is Bizet's at least every month. And they've announced, have they announced what they're doing next year for the opera?

Yeah, it is Bizet's Carmen for the opera and the Pirates of Penzance by Gilbert and Sullivan. It's going to be their first Gilbert and Sullivan, which is, I was surprised, but it turns out is the first Gilbert and Sullivan at the Charlottesville Opera since their start 50 years ago or so. Yeah, it's the first one. Carmen should be good, though, because Carmen's got that famous, what do you call it? Habanera. It's the first one. Carmen should be good though because Carmen's got that famous what do you call it? Habanera. It's a famous habanera.

I almost said habanero and I'm like no that's a pepper. Nobody would have known the difference. Famous pepper from Carmen. Famous pepper from Carmen, yes. Well, let me quickly get to our guests as where they can kind of join in. We are happy to be joined by Lee McCraw-Levitt and Kelly Johns, two local

artists here in Crozet, Virginia. Thank you so much, both of you, for coming on. Thanks for having us. And excellent neighbors as well. So, Lee, I'll start with you. So tell us a little, everyone, a little bit about yourself and kind of how you kind of got into art. Well, I actually got a fairly late

start, which was what we were talking about briefly. But I was 48 when I first picked up a paintbrush. And it was after my sister passed away. And the world felt kind of gray and colorless. And I had been doing photography but wanted to kind of push the boundaries of what I was doing with that. And I took an online class. And we just were playing. We were collaging and doing fun things.

And I loved it so much. I've not stopped since then. And there's just so much art. that and I took an online class and we just were playing we were collaging and doing fun things and I I loved it so much I've not stopped since then and there's just so much art there's just so much an online class was it kind of like a um like a master class thing or sort of like a like no this was just um a woman out in Portland I was living in Germany at the time so I had to download the the lessons and then do them and then we would post them on Flickr because there was no Instagram to share as a class but she would have instructions she's like this week we're going to play with composition and we're going to I want you to just get these kind of things together and try different things and so it was very playful and low-key

there was no this is the right brush to use, or this is how to mix color. I started with the element of play and just exploration. I think that was perfect for me because I struggled a lot with the perfectionism of everything. That is how I got my start, but I loved it so much I never stopped.

I didn't really take any training after that, but I do have an undergraduate degree in art history, so it's not like I don't know art. I just hadn't made art. That was going to be my follow-up question because we were talking about Rothko and Rodin in advance. I was like, did that come after or did that come before?

No, I studied that all four years in college, and then I did a big tour of Europe afterwards to go see all the art with a friend of mine, and then I lived overseas and got to continue to go to all the major museums throughout my adulthood so a lot of exposure to looking at art but I didn't start making it until I was 48 so yeah so I've been doing that what about 12 years now and it's it's my way of life. What about you, Kelly? So I've always been an artist. I like to say where I'm at with my art career now is that my art was just waiting for me

because I've always done art throughout my life, and the reflection I've always gotten from others is that you're an artist. So it's like I had to kind of develop into the person I am I think to hold the frequency of the art I make now um it's it's a much more deep vast experience than I think I was ready to create at different stages in my life so I always made art but I didn't go after it as seriously and professionally, you know, as I am now. Um, and I did a lot more to experimented with different styles, line art and different, like more graphic. Um, and my, my mom likes to say that was my, this is my mature art,

which goes along with it. So line art would be. so line art is really like you know where you take away everything um and you just have the simple shapes left okay so i would do like pen and ink and ink you start with pencil but you're taking a complex drawing or of something and then working down to the keep only the essential lines that represent what you're trying to portray so um and I think I was sharing this with you Nick the other day is that that type of art was very interesting to me because I love um providing a lot of white space in my art and time for whoever's interacting with it to have that space to feel into it and those calm breaks in between the the you know the marks um so I was really drawn to line art always for that reason but then I had my daughter and I was in the phase of diapers

and the naps and the you know the monotony of that beautiful period of life but it's very repetitive and I just wanted to not when I had a little chunk of time to do art, I was like I don't want to sit down and be stressed about when I'm taking this line away, I just want to pour paint, I want to make big colors and I always saw myself having this career of making these huge

abstracts you know, it's like my second career because I used to be in the corporate world before I had my daughter and so that that's what i'm doing but um i do think that i had to arrive at this point in order to match the art that wanted to come through and so when you talk and both of you do you both kind of paint in more of an abstract style which is that what you would say how would you kind of categorize it like so what inspires you to kind of paint in more of an abstract style which is that what you would say how would you kind of categorize it like so what inspires you to kind of paint in the way that i know before we would

talk about like colors like how do you kind of get inspiration for that to paint you know emotionally talking and well i i like to say i'm telling a story with all of my paintings and i don't start with the story in mind i start by i most of my canvases start by, I will be working on something where I'm in the middle and I kind of know where I'm going and I have extra paint on my brush and I'll just reach over to a fresh canvas and I'll clean my brush off on the canvas. So most of my paintings start with random marks that, I don't know, right? Like I just put it on there and then I start covering the canvas and And then something comes to me, and I start to feel like there's an idea I want to express. But I mostly do very non-objective art.

So you would look at it, and you wouldn't be able to see anything you recognize. You know, abstracting is when you take something you know, and then you start moving it away from being purely representational. And I do some of that. I do landscapes that way. But most of it's non-objective. Rothko is non-objective.

There's just no thing that you can project onto it. So it becomes more about feelings. And so almost all of mine are about feeling good. I aim to make my paintings uplifting. And when people look at them, I always get,

this is so happy. I think adults forget that it's okay to just love color and feel happy. So I'm offering that to the world. I know that Judith shared some of your paintings. Well, I, while we were talking. So I'm curious because before we talk about, what was his name, Rothko? Rothko. Rothko.

And you were talking about how he had a purple and that gave people kind of like a calming feeling. So when you kind of go into colors, do you kind of think about what colors you kind of want to put on the canvas? Or are you just kind of sort of like whatever feels like in the moment to kind of. I'm actually pretty intentional with my colors. I have a particular palette I like to work with. And what the intention comes from is how do I place them next to each other? Do I want a warm yellow with a cool purple? That's one kind of energy. Do I want a really strong orangey yellow with a very deep, strong

purple? That's a different energy because then you're like working opposites on the color wheel and that's going to kind of create a clashing energy, does that so i i work with the warmth and the coolness of the colors um and then i have i i don't work with very many neutrals um i if i do a neutral it's going to be like one of my bluey greens that i like that i'll take with a little bit of black and white and move it towards gray but it's still going to have a lot of the color in it but i just made the decision i didn't want to use what I call grown-up colors, like burnt umber. So I just, I used the fun colors.

What about you, Kelly? And so this is where our work is very in contrast because I paint primarily in soft, neutral, I wouldn't say neutral, but I would say I gain a lot of my inspiration from the earth and the natural world. And the parts of the earth that are super inspiring to me are rocks and water and the sky. And the natural color palettes that you see and those pigments that you could actually make from the earth, which most paints have some

of that in it you know um but so and with my work my colors are also super intentional i like to say artists are basically mad scientists because you know when you make colors it's like you're you're making this this magical compound of like taking that the colors are going to have a an energetic effect whoops i'm hitting the mic just like so you're going to produce this feeling in this frequency so when you're taking like you're you guys were talking about purple you know it has these natural components of ways it's going to make you feel. Well, when you're in there mixing and making your own colors, you're creating your own vibes. There's going to be a visceral response to your work that is known by your colors.

So my colors, my swatches that over the years I've made that I paint from, I'm like, they're my DNA. So they're sacred to me. So you'll see a lot of those repeated in my work but it's it's very intentional and very thought out like I'll feel into a color palette for sometimes years before I actually paint it paint it and the work is you know because I think my work I like to explore like a state of being that's not it would this is something I thought about Lee is that your work sometimes feels to me like more that exact present moment and you're capturing

that present moment where my work feels a little bit like this this state of being that you're exploring you know you go through these periods of time in your life you're going through this transition or you're exploring this deep theme of learning this emotion or this part of your life is bringing something out of you that you're exploring. And my work really kind of sits with those in-betweens and those times of learning those new states and just the experience of being human. And where I love that your work brings you right into the present moment.

So I think that's a fun interplay. Thank you for that. And if I can share a quote real quick. Absolutely. Something that I love. Joseph Campbell has a quote about art. And I'm not going to get it all right. But he talks about the moment of aesthetic arrest. And how a painting should just stop you in your tracks.

And pull you right there into the present moment. And hold you there for a moment. And pull you away from all the chaos of your life. And the thoughts in your tracks and pull you right there into the present moment and hold you there for a moment and pull you away from all the chaos of your life and the thoughts in your head and just bring you right there. And that's what I try to do. So thank you. And I want to say with Kelly's work, one thing I love, she'll go to the beach and then she'll just bring it home with her and put it into a painting and you can feel the wind and you can the spray of the water and the the way the sand feels like she has a way of capturing that and bringing it back with her so you can have that with you at all times if you have kelly's work thank you that's incredible so you're kind of like you're taking a lot of inspiration i'm guessing kind of from the

natural world around you um and you you're kind of more of just sort of like trying to capture a moment in like a present part of time. Yeah. Kind of interesting. Interesting. Nick, did you have a question? No, no. Because I see you thinking over there.

Yeah, no, I am thinking, because, well, it's interesting because, I mean, I have the benefit of, as Kelly and Lee were talking, I could see Judah putting up the painting, so I could see what they were trying to describe. But that is a great point, is that first off, I was thinking, because

that quote from Joseph Kent reminds me a lot of Schopenhauer, when he talked about that's the purpose of art, was to escape the suffering of the world in an instant. Yeah. Love that. And I mean, obviously, he went down further into this great philosophy of his.

But it's interesting because as you were both talking about it, I can see how Leigh's does that. Are you still, Kelly, trying to achieve the escape? Or is it because it is a cal calmer much longer process to look at your painting than it is at least um you know i think the thing that my art i really try to bring through with my art is the experience of being human on the planet so it's like you know when you spend time in nature it provides such a reflective experience. Like, you know, you're sitting beside a river and it's flowing

and you're thinking you can get quiet and think about, well, how can I be like this river? Like, where am I throwing rocks in my life and blocking up the dam? Like, shouldn't things just flow more naturally? And it's just such a reflective experience. So I love to mimic those you know i do a lot of pouring paint so it's like the water is flowing i gain a lot of inspiration and guidance just from the way the water makes the shape on its own so um i think with my art

there's there's a quote and i don't know who said it but if we're going quotes it's about how artists tell with their art the things that people can't explain or say and I think you know we go there and my art while it looks very calming

it has a depth to it like this series that I'm sharing you know today was that I'm about to release it's about a to it this series that I'm sharing today that I'm about to release it's about a time in my life that I had to rebuild everything and after a season of grief get into who I am

and what that means for me now and what's the raw material that I have to work with and what do I want to make of that that's not a light concept you know but how can I make that into the most beautiful thing because it is beautiful it's an opportunity that not everyone has and if I can only reframe it to see the opportunity that's before me it's amazing and so with my art I don't know if it's so much about stopping you in your tracks.

Well, I hope it does that. It's more about how do you, does it inspire your life? And my main goal with my art is that I hope that if it's on your walls, it's bringing you peace, and it's reminding you of that connective thread to yourself, like that you have the ability to reach in and sit quietly And it's reminding you of that connective thread to yourself, like that you have the ability to reach in and sit quietly and feel yourself and that guidance. And, you know, I just want it to be that when you look at it,

it inspires you to constantly go back there to yourself because that's the place that I'm going when the inspiration comes through for how the paint pours, how the colors blend, what sand I throw in, or what nature scene. It's these big concepts that I want to sit with you over time. So I guess it's a little bit different. Maybe a little bit different. So when you say throw the sand,

there's physical sand in the painting as well? Yeah. Oh, interesting. Yeah, so I work in mixed media, and so does Lee. Oh, I didn't know that. I was going to say, well, is that another contrast? But could we get into that just a little bit before we move on? Yeah, so I primarily work with watered-down acrylics.

So I'll take a different, you know, there's all different types of paints, and I'm always, we're both always exploring new art supplies so it's like but I like to take the different you know there's fluid acrylics which flow much more naturally they're a lot thinner and then heavy-bodied acrylics so I like to get a different that dichotomy of thin layers mixed with like throwing big chunks of paint in and then using watercolor pencils or crowns or um oil sticks uh graphite pencils basically anything sometimes I use drywall mud and put more texture but then what I really love to do is take if I can have an element of the earth that's from that scene

that I'm drawing all that inspiration from or that color palette, which is often sand. So it's sand from different beaches. And sometimes when I do commissions, I'll ask people, do you have any place that this is special to you that you want some soil from or little pieces of rocks? Sometimes I've used crushed up glass, tiny pieces like crystal glass that you like buy at Michaels not like shards of

but you know I wouldn't put it past because it's like all of those layers create something really interesting you know and that again goes back to how I think about art, is the layers and the processes and everything. So whether I wouldn't be surprised if a tree branch shows up in there, or just like I love putting different interesting things in. What about you, Leah? So I work with what we like to call fodder. So it might be an old painting that I cut up.

It might be, I like to do a lot of monoprinting where you have a jelly plate and then you put a thin layer of paint and you might put shapes on it and then lift it up and I use deli paper to do that and I'll do it two or three times and then it starts to create unintentional things that come together and become interesting

and so I have buckets for just my papers like that. I also will press paper onto something to pick paint up and that starts to create patterns on the other piece that might become fodder. And then I take, you know, canvas. Sometimes I'll take this, the unstretched raw canvas, and I will paint a wild design all over it just to cut it up and use it. And I like to layer all of that on there. And I may have canvas applied to canvas, and then the monoprinting on there, and then all of the things that Kelly's talking about I also use. I use the Neo crayon. I even use some oil on top of it.

It has to be the last layer, but I'll use the RF pigment sticks because they're so saturated in color. And I don't have any rules about how I do it. Like my show is called Unruly. I literally want to operate without any kind of constraints. But if I can add in real quick, the constraints I do work from, I have three things that I focus on. I want my paintings to have a strong composition

because it will distract you as a viewer if there's something off on the composition. So even though it might look like a lot just happening on there, I'm actually very careful at the end to put in the balance of how it's composed and the big and small. Then I work with contrast so I don't have all my colors in the middle of tonality. I like to have some extremes in there so that again your eye is moving around and is not either you're not like missing that contrast because life is all about the contrast right and then the last thing I do is so I have color

contrast and composition so the third piece is the color and I have to look at how I'm balancing the color in a painting. So I'm not going to have one splotch of yellow and never pick it up again. But those are my only rules. Everything else is anything goes. And it's whatever I need that I have available to me to tell the story that is evolving. And it's a conversation until the very end at which I get the final say.

I was going to say though, have you ever broken the rule where you can only use a color once? I probably do have paintings where that's happened, but for the most part, I might take a color that I've mixed. I like to mix a lot of my colors. Most of them are mixed instead of straight out of the tube, but I might take that and then I'm going to add a little bit of yellow to it, and it moves towards the green. And then I will take that same core mix, and then I'm going to add a little bit of the red to it,

and it moves the other direction, gets cooler. Or I might tint with black and white on that. So that one color may only show up one time in the original mix that I made but it's mixed with other things through there and that creates a cohesiveness in my paintings that is subtle so you're not going to necessarily look at it and go oh I know how she did that right but it but dry perceives it yes it's it's like almost like a the way we use underpainting. So I do use underpainting. So my whole canvas gets one color before I start for pieces that I'm going to work on in that particular way.

Sometimes I start with a white canvas and wipe my brush off. But that's one way to bring cohesiveness. But another way is how you use your color. So since I want to use a lot of colors, they get mixed with each other. And that is not necessarily apparent to your eye right away, but it gives that feeling of bringing it all together. And that's sort of how I've matured as an artist, is learning how to do that and bringing that into my work. Well, I was going to ask, because when I was talking with Kelly about her art beforehand but

when we decided to do the whole thing for the show one of the things she mentioned is working on the composition beforehand right the structure i think we discussed that right she does these beautiful sketches that could be art by themselves i know my brother is always like why don't you frame those this is the best part they're like yeah they're really ideas i was gonna say like there was an exhibition in willie mary about the sketches from um da vinci and michelangelo that we went to and like those are like you're like wow the same thing it's like those are art themselves but i'm just curious because hearing you talk about the comp like the end composition making sure the structure is sound

sounds like a post like process is that accurate or is there still something in the back of your mind going beforehand? Like, I don't want to use this side of the canvas. Again, don't know how that comes out. I don't want to use that side of the canvas because I want to make sure it's balanced. One of the paintings I gave you for this slideshow, I started out with a little bit of intentionality. I thought, I would really like to explore

using a large floral element, because people relate to that. And I thought, well, really like to explore using a large floral element because people relate to that. And I thought, well, let me see if I can do something. I fought and fought and fought with it and I could not pull it together the way I wanted because I started with too much of an idea. And what I ended up doing

was rotating a quarter turn and then just painting over the whole flower. And it's turned out to be one of my favorite recent paintings. But I had to, I had to have the conversation with the canvas. So that's how I work. It's always a back and forth.

And sometimes when I get stuck, I just like grab a color and just go, and I just randomly throw something on there to give me a new start point to solve from. So for me, it's a big puzzle. And it's like, how do I get the color, composition, and contrast all in balance with each other? And when I get too precious

and I hold on to one section that I love, I sometimes lose my ability to, quote unquote, solve the painting. Interesting. Yeah, funny that you mentioned that because my next question is kind of going to be, what are some challenges you face as artists? Like, is there something kind of like painting block, you know, like writers may have writing

block. Yeah. Is it like a painting block? Are you sometimes kind of like, I cannot find inspiration anywhere? Kind of like, what are those challenges and how do you deal with them? Do you want to start? Oh, sure. Yeah.

For me, it's never a lack of inspiration. I have sketchbooks full of ideas for series and things that just sit on my heart more time I have a five year old so you know time to be in the studio is always a challenge but

I would say a challenge is you know always as an artist is to be able to reveal your soul. I mean, when you make art, you're putting your soul out for the world to see. And that took me a long time to be okay with just, you know, putting out really what I really wanted to put out. So you kind of always have to push that boundary and be the artist that you want to be if you don't want to do some cheesy social media trend don't do it

you want to make paintings about things that are a little bit cutting edge or have messages that might rattle people you got to do it there's things where you just, you have to constantly be evolving and making sure that your art is a true representation of you and what your voice in the world

and not conforming to what society wants from you or, you know, so that's like a constant check-in. I'm clapping for Kelly. That was good. I think the other thing for me, where we were just kind of talking about your process, mine is very different. It's so premeditated.

It's like going back to what I was saying about the line art. Like once I get to the canvas, I am pouring paint. I am free. But it is so intentional before I get there. You know, I plan out all my colors. I make my colors. I do these composition sketches. I have a theme of what I'm exploring.

And then once I get there, it's very free-flowing. But I do feel that a challenge is always getting... You have these big ideas as an artist and they're always a little bit different than the last work you made you know and then so it's like how how do you make it look like what's on your heart and what's in your mind like that there's always that energetic side and

then bringing it into the 3d world um and that takes just making bad work yeah and that's hard especially when you you know have any accomplishments you've made as an artist you're like okay well I sell paintings for four thousand dollars ten thousand dollars and then you're like this work is terrible yeah you know so it's like going back to those points but if you want to evolve and stay true to your artistic expression, it's like you have to be willing to make that bad work and explore those growths that you're trying to evolve into. And that took me a while because I was stuck in this perfectionism box. Like, well, if I'm not making art that looks like I know I'm capable of, it's not worth making.

Well, that's the secret sauce in my opinion so just pushing yourself through this really gritty uncomfortable you have to push through the self-doubt yeah and just and stay with it yeah no that reminds me because i'm i used to kind of make as much better at writing music than i do but i used to every do it but every once in a while it's like you have to deal with this moment where it's like, in your head, you kind of think you have this song, and you're like, oh, this is the next Star Wars. Like, I can't wait to put, like, and then you put the computer, and then it sounds terrible.

You're like, no, I don't get it. It sounded so good in my head. I know it sounds terrible. Exactly. You just kind of got to push through, so that's good. Would you have any kind of words, because it's kind of coming off that, words of inspiration for people who kind of maybe like, oh, maybe I'm getting into

art. Maybe Judah or Jerry's look insane. They're going to go home and try to start picking up some paints. What words of wisdom could you provide for people, I think? I also work with sketchbooks but I always encourage people to go by I like to work with the

Canson watercolor sketchbooks, and the paper's very sturdy. And I'm like, see if you can fill the whole thing with the bad art. Like, literally make this your bad art sketchbook, because then you're free to try everything. And I filled probably close to 30 of them by now, and that's usually how I warm up. And if I don't have enough time,

I'll only do something in my sketchbook because I want to stay loose but again leftover paint goes in there and then I'll look through my scrap thing and put something on there that completely doesn't go with the color that I already have on there and then I'm like what do I do with this right like it's the play and the having a space for it to literally not look like what is in your head is, I think, the best way to get started. Because so many people stop when the flower doesn't look like the flower. And here I am 12 years later, and the flower did not look like the flower. But when you learn that that's okay, and you can pivot, and you can keep going,

it wound up being one of my favorite paintings, but not because the flower came out the way it was supposed to. It's because I allowed that conversation to happen. And you learn how to have the conversation by playing and doing a lot of sketches. And I share my sketchbooks. When they're full, I call it flipping Friday. I'll just do a thing and I'll flip through. And I want people to see just how much bad art I made on my journey

to get to the paintings that I'm sharing on Instagram. So I like to share that. But does the bad art ever germinate even from it where you're just reflipping through something that's bad and you're like, oh, actually, that could be good. Well, a lot of times I'll be like, I like that element. Or I love how those two things work together. And then I pick that up and I bring it into something I'm doing on paper or canvas that would become a painting.

It's a great place to learn. But a lot of my art is about happenstance and these wonderful coincidences these um wonderful coincidences or um serendipity right like that's a favorite word in the artist world because that's what we love we're like who knew right yeah and then you see that you're like how can i use that how can i bring that into a bigger you know scale and work with it but you cannot find serendipity if you're being super intentional all the time. Or if you stop the first time, something looks terrible. Yeah. So setting a goal of just like filling a sketchbook with just whatever, right?

And being okay with that. Because like you said, you often will go back through, like I'll look through mine years later and go, I really like that now. But at the time, I'm like, ah. Or you can see what it can become versus what it was at the time. And I've actually sold out of my sketchbooks because I post them. I post the individual pages if I like it and people will say, can I get that? And I'm like, yeah, let me get the little purse off here, you know? So yeah. Now you have a show currently Lee I do yes yeah let's talk about that because one of the things also that we just discussed even just briefly here was the fact that like Kelly has series is some right sometimes or all the time um it depends I I usually have

work on my website that's available or I have some hung locally in Crozet that you could go in and buy a painting off the wall, which would be awesome. Go for it. Go do that. Yeah. And, but then I like to paint in a series and formulate new bodies of work. And those just come as they come because, you know, I would love to be able to say I do for a year but they really kind of have to go with the timing of when the art what's going on in my life but also when the art

needs to be made you know it just it comes in and then sometimes it happens quickly and then like this series that I shared with you that's been an evolution of over two years you know I've been making other art alongside of it but that this series the idea for the series started two years ago and then I incrementally worked on it and then next thing I know I'm like it needs to be finished and it's now it's finished you know so it it kind of has its own life but I like to work in bodies of work so they I pretty regularly have one going on and then also have you know other work that I've already made. And they're cohesive so if you have multiple pieces they hang well together that doesn't always happen

with my art. I was going to say that I was going to have that lead in because I was going to say you don't you don't necessarily work in the series as much but yet at the same time you have a show and you have a lot of right currently can you tell us more about that where it is? Down in Lynchburg at the Academy of the Arts they have a beautiful gallery donated by an artist Patricia Harrington she's since passed away but she was a contemporary of my mom who was also an artist and it's a beautiful gallery space and I am hanging in what's called the front gallery, the up front gallery, and it's got, kind of like in the studio, which none of you can see, but very high ceilings and white walls

and the wood floors, and I have 32 pieces hanging there right now. The majority of them are very large. The only sort of cohesiveness that I said would be part of it is I worked in increments of like four foot height. So they're all four foot tall. And so that brings a little bit of like cohesiveness, but then it's just all these different styles and types of paintings that again reflect the color composition and contrast but I have a color signature that is so clear even when you see my different styles

people are like that's Lee and so it's a really fun show and I created something special for it I guess you would call it almost a series but I did 14 small paintings because everything else is enormous and not everybody has room for that but these 14 small paintings, because everything else is enormous, and not everybody has room for that,

but these 14 small pieces, all very different looking from each other, but the naming of them, I named them all affirmations. So when you look at it, and you think of the name of the painting title, it's an affirmation to you. And my favorite one is kind of a pun, because I have this gorgeous sort of orgy background, and I ended up thinking, this needs a cactus. So I cut out a cactus out of one of my green scraps that I had. And the title of this one is, You Look So Hot. Thank you. And someone actually has already purchased the one that I had cut out letters from a different project.

And I had the U and the R. And I have the R is like facing backwards. And it's before the U in the way it looks. But I named that one, You Are Amazing. And someone's already taken that one home. And every time they look at it, you know, it's like they're going to hear that reflected back to them. So that's the closest I've gotten to like a series.

That's interesting though. It's interesting that the difference is, but then how you were able to do it. Yeah. Still in a different way. Yeah, and each of the pieces look very different from each other, but the choice to name everything as an affirmation makes it into kind of a series. And those can all mix and match and hang together.

And if people were interested in looking at these pictures online or potentially purchasing them online, where would they go? So the Academy has an online shop called Artistica. And you can go there and see my whole show is posted on there with like, it's a shopping

cart basically. So yeah, even if you can't make it down there, you can absolutely go and check out and see all the affirmations and see the larger pieces um and they are available through the academy so and do you have a website too lee for all your yes um i think i i sent that information i don't know how it gets in the show notes but um my website uh does have a way to contact me it doesn't stay fully up to date because I have a lot of art going on. I'm also

in Crozet year round in a shop called Bluebird. I have over 50 pieces there. And you live almost right next door to Nick so you could do something. Absolutely, yes. Being in Crozet is a... Yes, yes. It's really great to

live out there. I'm out there. I'm on my website. I'm in Bluebird. I'm in the Artisica shop while my show is up. Wonderful. Yeah. What about you, Kelly?

My art is under a business name that I call my studio, basically, Terra Ethos. Okay. So my website, you'll see on the show notes as well, is under that name, Tarot Ethos. And then, so there's always work live there, but yes, need to make sure it's updated, because, you know, pieces are out. So people can look at your works on Tarot Ethos

and also purchase? Yes, and then i'm always available like if you send me a message or an email i primarily show my work on instagram i have some pieces in a shop in crozet that's called reset it's um a sauna and athletic recovery i think is what they call the store which goes really well with my they. They have infrared saunas, which is fabulous. So just go try that. And they have cold plunges. It's a lovely little shop.

So I have paintings for sale in there. And then I focus a lot of my work on commissions. So I will be opening my commission calendar for 2025 up soon. And then Lee and I are both doing a market soon. Oh, that's right. Thank you for remembering. It's a great market. It's the Bluebird Holiday Market which will be on December 7th.

So we'll have a lot of different price point art available, you know, good holiday gifts. And so yeah, those are some of the ways you can find me. And where's the Bluebird Market? I'm glad you gave me a chance because it's really fun. So I used to live in Germany

and go to the Christmas markets there and you know, you wandered through, like I used to go to the one in Nuremberg and you could wander through the city and all the different little vendors were set up and it was just such a fun experience. And I, this Crozet Market feels a lot like that the Bluebird puts on because

artists are housed in local businesses so it's not like you go to one big hall and you know how that crazy that gets no this is walking through the town and going to the you get a little map and you go to the it'll tell you which artists are at which locations and so you park and then you walk all over the downtown area and then you kind of have to drive down to Star Hill, but Star Hill will also have quite a few artists. So just, it's a really great experience and it's a fun way to do your Christmas shopping. So I think there should be over 65 vendors there this year. So yeah. And that's December 7th? December 7th. The feast of St. Nicholas. That's not very important.

We put our boots out for that. I was going to say, we do have an audience question from Kevin Higgins. Thank you, Kevin Higgins. He asked, how do you two, both of you, know when you are done with a piece of your art? When do you decide to put your brush down? Talking about artist challenges. Do you want to? I'll hop in. So I often will let it rest

and I put it up on my space that I have for it and I try to look at it from a lot of different ways. Sometimes Nick's probably seen me doing this. I take it out in my front yard and lean it against the bushes and then I go across so I can see it from further away, because my studio is not big enough to get far away from a larger piece.

I will come down the stairs at night and lean over the railing and look into my studio and try to look at it from different angles. But I mostly know by a feeling, and it won't feel complete. I have one piece that it just wasn't quite done and I couldn't figure out what it was for the longest time. And then all of a sudden I was sitting upstairs eating and I was like, it needs a little piece of pink at the top. And I went down and I painted it right away and then it was like done.

So there is no like, yes, this is done. No, this isn't. It's, if I feel like it's done, I stop. And if it doesn't feel done, I just keep going. Yeah, and I will have to second that. And that's where art is so subjective. But I think with abstract art, it's easy to look at a piece and say, well, they just kind of flung paint on there. Like, my kid could do that.

Well, yes, your kid could do that because, you know, that's really when you're uninhibited as an artist. So your-year art nick was probably very good you know i don't think so but but it's that is one of the hardest things is to know when it's done and it's it really is sometimes i live with my art you know i'll hang it on the wall and just be around it yeah for a while and i'm like is this piece done or is does it you know because you the second you overdo your piece to me it feels ruined so it's like this very delicate balance like you're you're working on you're working on it and then there's like okay i think it needs one more mark here but i'm not sure and then you have to just wait a minute sometimes and then go for it.

But that last mark is like the highest risk one. And because you use a lot of white space in your art, it can be, you can go too far. Oh yeah, I've thrown away, not thrown away, repainted canvas. Well, I can't actually repaint canvases because you leave a lot of raw space. But repurpose them or re-stretch them for something else because I am like that I covered too much area it doesn't

feel like you like me um but yeah so it's that is where also it just comes down to practicing like you you just get better at showing up and knowing that what you're going to, what's going to come through, you're going to be able to handle it and direct it and be there for the instruction that you're receiving. It's to me, it almost feels like you're downloading it, you know, it's,

and then you're in the moment, which sometimes I have a hard time with like videoing my art process for Instagram or whatever. Cause I'm like, it's so disruptive. It's so disruptive. It takes you out of the moment. Yeah, it takes me out. It does.

What is my ear doing? You're so in the moment to receive how you need to move your brush, turn your brush, a flick of a paint, a turn of a canvas. So it's that presence and just being able to hear and be available for okay and then the the confidence as an artist that you gain over time to be like yep if I do that mark I know it's done you know like if I if I add one more thing I'm overdoing it I have to stop now so yeah I think yeah it's a combination of feeling and confidence. Yeah, and just like a knowingness. You know your art, and so you know where it's supposed to be.

But you have to allow space for that knowingness to come through. In my case, Gesso is my friend because I do cover my whole canvas. I had a piece that I was trying to make for the show because it was a certain size that I wanted it to be. I had four pieces that were like long and narrow and the fourth one just wouldn't come together. And in the two days before I had to take my U-Haul down to Lynchburg, I repainted it three times. Wow. Yes. I just was like, it's not right. Nope. It's not right. And I just gessoed, let it dry and then put the paint on there and then started over and the third time I was happy with it um because I wanted

it to go with the other three um but um yeah so I'm fortunate in that I can just like yeah it's not working cover that up you know so yeah I think for me on that front I just accept that you know like if I made a mark that I'm like that was a good idea I only 90% love how it turned out I gained the knowledge for the next painting of like okay well I would have stopped that I would have done 70% of that instead of you know like a bigger you know so it's that I'm just stockpiling that data yeah and then that's really where art is about technique so you know when you use like how did they do that well probably took them a lot of years and trial and error and then to make this simple paint swap you know yeah the more simple things are it's like the more complex beginning was.

So it's that journey. It reminds me, this is probably a terrible analogy, but when you're cooking and you have that last thing of salt, if you put that last spoon of salt, it could be too much salty, and then you can't fix it. It's like, but it still needs a little salt. How much do I put? Or Old Bay.

I'm from Maryland, so we use Old Bay. I don't know if you guys know what that is. Yes. But if you go too much, it's done. Yeah. It's just over. Well, you see, that's why I stick to fiction stuff, paintings, because you can always delete. Yeah.

But you can't get rid of something writing and music today that was one note too many you can go back and cut it out but it's a lot harder with canvas or even sculpture it's the same thing you cut out too much of the marble

that leg's coming off so I want to circle that back to an earlier question about um you know how do you get started maybe you pick something that you can paint over or cover up or delete you know so that the perfectionism of that's so like overbearing in the beginning um is easily addressed right yeah oh and and I guess I never really added my thoughts to that question. I think a lot of the best art comes out of challenges. So like you're saying with your art, and you're feeling like it was so bad, I'm not good at art.

Well, you're quite likely really good at art. You haven't seen my butterfly. But here's the thing. Those types of art, if you stayed with it, are forcing you into a different avenue of expression. So whether you picked up some, I don't know, clay and smashed it onto a piece of paper and then had some grass. It's not maybe what's trying to come through

isn't in a traditional format that you were struggling with. But it's in those challenges that the best art is made. And that everyone has their unique expression. And that's what makes this world so beautiful is that we're all different. So it's in those where you're pushing against. I think that if you can look at those as opportunities and then also the other thing, just take note of what lights you up.

You know, you walk through a city and you're like, I just can't get over how the architecture of that, those balconies, well, that is calling out to you, you know? So maybe try sketching those and try different methods until something sticks. And it's that exploration exploration that you'll of things that excite you that you'll come up with a style that's unique and a combination with those challenges of things that aren't working that push you away from those and into exploring other

things and that combination of your relationship with the things that inspire you and then the things that you find that work well for you yeah so it's it's it's a very personalized journey and you just have to be willing to stick it out you know yeah I like to say that when we make art it's I see something and then it passes through my brain of how I think about it. And then it moves through like my heart, what I love about it. And then my gut, what I feel about it. And then it comes out through my hands at my current skill level. Yeah.

Right. Yeah. Like that's, I think how art works. And so when you start making art, if you think about it that way, it's like, oh, I literally can't do it wrong because these things are all mine, right? The way I see it, the way I feel about it. And my current skill level, I also own that. And that's the piece you have to work on, right?

Like if you want a higher skill level, you practice, right? But knowing that when you're making art, you're sharing with us how you see the world. Beautifully stated, both of you. It makes me almost want to... This is close. Almost, this is close. I mean, the only thing

I also think I didn't say about was I'm also very impatient, so the process of painting takes a long time. I didn't know I was impatient. It doesn't have to. You could Michael to go back to art and it's over. It doesn't have to. You could be a quick sketcher and that's your style. So that's the only thing. You have to lean into what works for you

and don't try to force yourself into the things that you don't like. There's so many ways to make art. The other thing, this is the last thing I thought of that I'll add, is presentation is everything. So you do a little sketch well half of art is how you present it so you know put it in a mat put it in a cool

frame that's the other half so don't stop but with you know thinking like okay well this one sketch doesn't doesn't look exactly how I want it to well how would you hang it on the wall what would you put it next to like that's just as important. And that also informs your style of art going forward because you're like, okay, I love concrete, so I'm going to make a concrete frame that's out there, but I always think about concrete because I love rocks.

And so then your sketch itself could be very simple. It could be a quick little graphite thing, but it looks stunning in this concrete frame and then there's that interplay between how you present it so frame it up you know don't give up that's a great point because even like we look at all the old masters and so it's like they've taken a photo of it out of context and then you go see it in person you're like man that's like part of

the ceiling like and it's great but like it he designed it for that specific purpose or like the the last supper i always remember because we walked in in the dining hall of the monks and you walk in and then you turn and you see it and the present it's just so much more overwhelming yeah when you see it in person because it's like he designed it for that space like he was doing like da vinci was doing the perspective i think it's like drawn like put like ropes across the entire hall like so that the nail goes straight into jesus's left eye so that like if you're standing dead center it's like absolutely so like we forget that like there's a presentation is important because how you see the work is matters like it's designed for a certain space and that's a good example because he also was designing it for you as the viewer to feel like you were in the scene, right?

Like you were participating in part. Yeah, and it was designed that way. So when you see a 2D up on a projector, because I studied art history a long, long time ago, and the Venus of Willendorf was the same size as The Last Supper when it was being shown on the projector, right? And then when I traveled afterwards

to go see all of the art, it was so different in context and with the scale and with the frames and how it was presented. It is a very different experience. And so that's my plug to encourage all of you to go see art in person because really that's the artist talking to you of you to go see art in person because really that's that's the

artist talking to you i was gonna say like everything art wise in person is better and you can just keep going down the line like having go into a concert in person go to a yeah you know every other every medium is better in person than it is just trying to digitally yeah like experience it yeah yeah absolutely well kelly, thank you both so much for coming on today. It was wonderful to have you both here. Thank you for having us. This was delightful. And I also enjoyed the brotherly interplay. This is us on our friendly days.

Repartee. We're not at the tennis match. Exactly. We control ourselves when we're on camera. We do our best. And I'm very fortunate to have Kelly to talk with all the time.

So I encourage all of you out there to also find people to talk about art with. Try a neighbor. Yes. Go to the galleries and talk to the people

with you about what you're seeing and find out how the two of you are seeing it very differently. It's so fun. And that's what art is for.

Actually, a quick question, because it just popped in my head. How do you deal with potential criticism, sometimes, as artists? Ooh. Yeah. We were signing out on that. I know.

The hardest question of the day. At the end. Let's throw it in. Okay. I guess I'll start. I think that's why you just have to be true to yourself. You know, you can't make art for someone else. I think that is a Rick Rubin quote.

You know, not quote. I don't think that's how he said it exactly. The essence of his book. Yeah. I mean, if you're making art that is your sole expression, it's almost not a choice. It's like we have to do this. So as long as you're staying true to that, you can handle it.

Because you are bringing something into the world that you had to do. And that in itself is worthy of the journey. And the experience of doing that is so fulfilling. And what it brings to you as a person is just as valuable as selling it and being able to live off of it and seeing it in people's homes. It's like that's

the byproduct. The icing on the cake. Yeah, but the fact that you were able to bring that out and be there for it and show up and master these crafts and these skills and connect to yourself. I mean, you've already achieved such a feat. And so I think if you're really doing that,

then if someone doesn't like it, they have that right. There's so much art. The same people don't find, you know, everyone finds beauty in different things, and that's lovely so people that are going to connect to your art are going to feel it and connect to it and it's for them and if it's not there are

a bazillion artists and art that is for them and that's lovely and it's that perspective that there's 8 billion people on the planet, not all of them like you as a person, not all of them like you as a person. Not all of them are going to like your art. It's just loving what you do.

And I went through a long stretch where I just had to make art where nobody liked it. I learned to love to do it for myself because I was kind of in a bubble, but the people closest to me did not like the art I was making, and I had to make a choice early on am I going to do this because I love making it or am I doing it for other people's approval and I think when you get over that hump in your art and then you it's almost like well now I'm saying I like myself right yeah um and that's different than worrying about whether your art is liked by everybody it's like I like myself and I like what I'm making and that's different than worrying about whether your art is liked by everybody. It's like, I like myself and I like what I'm making.

And that's okay if other people don't like it. Then I think you really start to express yourself more freely through your art. And then it just naturally improves because you're doing that. Yeah. And just to caveat that, that's the journey of an artist. So you don't come out that, you know, you do deal with that imposter syndrome. And is somebody somebody gonna like it is it worthy of selling you know am i good enough but those are you know those are questions you

have to keep looking at and keep going and then once you have faced off with that and you are doing it from that place of of truth yeah the rest's just, it's unfolding and you can handle it. Yeah. And you'll know you're at that point when you're at a market and somebody comes in and they look around and they go, hmm. And then they say, you know, my niece does really great art and they pull it up on their phone and they start showing you their niece's art.

And when you can genuinely go, oh, that's lovely or I love what they did with that and not feel anything about, not feel like rejected, you know you're at that's lovely or i love what they did with that and not feel anything about not feel like rejected you know you're at that place right because yeah or or uh you know they look at the price point and they say wow gosh i think i can make this myself for cheaper yeah and you're just like people say that all the time you know well art is expensive and if you really get into and lee and i would love to talk about this further if we talk about that all the time you know well art is expensive and if you really get into and lee and i would love to talk about this further we talk about this all the time all the time sidebar

but why art is priced the way it is because i think a lot of people want to buy art but don't understand the value and why it is the price that it is yeah um And that's not something you would know unless you're on the other end of making it. But yeah, so they question that. You know, it's like, okay, well, you can't sit on it. You can't eat it. You can't rent it out. Well, maybe you can rent it out.

You know, so it's a romance sale. It's a different type of purchase. So the value has to be understood. I mean, I think once you have a piece of original art in your house, it's highly addictive. Yes. I'm like, I want to buy all of my favorite artists and turn my house into a gallery because it's the best feeling ever.

You know, that energy that is emitted. But anyway, so yes, I have heard that. I'm sorry sorry i was just surprised i'm like even if you don't like it i don't think i could do it or even like said about other artists like you'll hear someone walk by like it's just so like they just that's just a piece of paint flung at the canvas like you know but understanding how that piece of paint got there yeah and the techniques and learning the supplies in the colors and you know so but and everyone's also entitled to that art can be valuable to you or not you know so

that's okay and there's that famous story attributed to Picasso where a woman sees him in a restaurant and asks him to do a little sketch and he does a quick little sketch and she said how much and he quotes a high price and she goes that took you five, and he does a quick little sketch. And she said, how much? And he quotes a high price, and she goes, that took you five minutes. And he's like, no, ma'am, it took me 20 years. Yeah, I think he said five minutes and 50 years. 50 years, yeah. Or something. But it was like a huge, it was.

It encapsulates it perfectly. Yes, yes. It's all the time I spent learning, all the notebooks full of terrible art, all of that is in each new piece that you make. And also the techniques of the supplies, working with the supplies. That is the hardest and most fun part, is learning how to do what you want to do with the supplies. I'm surprised.

Nobody would say that to a chef. It's like, well, that took you five minutes to make that dish. Well, listen, Lee and Kelly are much nicer to me. If someone's like, show me the picture, then these is pin hour, but this is terrible. But at some point you become an encourager of all artists because that is,

we are all on that journey together. Wonderfully stated. Well, thank you both again so much for coming on and sharing your art and your inspirations and your stories. Yes, it's been great for having us. Yes, good luck on the shows. Thank you. Thank you. And thank you to Nick

for being my wingman today. I'm happy to have you here. You were able to share your knowledge. Well, it was also important I wanted to be here because both my neighbors. That too. I was like, I set this up, gosh darn it, I'm going to be here.

Absolutely. And then as always, thank you to our wonderful sponsors, Merger Financial Services, Craddock Series Insurance, Matisse Young Realty, Charlottesville Opera, and Forward Adelante. Thank you for Judah behind the camera for making us all look good. Thank you to Jerry and the I Love Studios for having us. Next week we're going to have David McCormick, I believe, from Early Music America on the show. So that should be great.

We look forward to seeing everyone until then. Sorry. We look forward to seeing everyone next week. But until then, hasta mañana. Thank you.