The I Love CVille Show With Jerry Miller! - Keswick v Crozet: Designated Growth Areas; Why Are Keswick & Crozet Complete Opposites?

Episode Date: November 18, 2024

The I Love CVille Show headlines: Keswick v Crozet: Designated Growth Areas Why Are Keswick & Crozet Complete Opposites? Most Significant CVille Development Projects Of Late Ting Fires 42% Of Workforce; CVille Implications? UVA Senior VP Colette Sheehy To Retire on 7/1 Sheehy Has Been Employed By UVA For 43 Yrs 5 Spots Up For Relection In ’25 In CVile & AlbCo Should Tony Elliott Bench Anthony Colandrea? Read Viewer & Listener Comments Live On-Air The I Love CVille Show airs live Monday – Friday from 12:30 pm – 1:30 pm on The I Love CVille Network. Watch and listen to The I Love CVille Show on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn, iTunes, Apple Podcast, YouTube, Spotify, Fountain, Amazon Music, Audible, Rumble and iLoveCVille.com.

Welcome to the I Love Seville Show, guys. My name is Jerry Miller. It's a Monday afternoon in downtown Charlottesville, and ladies and gentlemen, it's time to make the donuts. Today's program, Locked and Loaded with content that is focused on Charlottesville, Albemarle County, and Central Virginia, a 300,000-person region that is incredibly dynamic. Roughly 140,000 of the 300,000 citizens that make up Central Virginia are liberal and democratic with how they vote, voted for Harris. Roughly 160,000 people are conservative, moderate,

and voted for Trump. It's a pretty clear, even split. You have the urban ring, Charlottesville, and Alamaro County that are blue. You have the outer counties, Green, Louisa, Orange, Culpeper, Madison, Mineral, Gordonsville, Barbersville, that are red. You have the massive impact of the University of Virginia gentrifying the community and certainly escalating the level of wealth in the central Virginia region. You have Charlottesville and Albemarle County that in some ways feel like they are more influential and or significant with their needs when compared to the outer counties. Is it right? No, it's not right. Does that, how Charlottesville and Albemarle County feel, taxpayers and citizens, that their needs, their wants, their influences, what they say is more significant than some of the other counties? Yes, a large portion of those in central Virginia feel their position in Charlottesville and Albemarle County, and I'm not saying it's right, but a large portion do, is more influential and significant in the region in totality.

As a result, you have this melting pot of nuance in ideology, ideas, of conflict, of different thought, that creates a lot of compelling content for someone who likes to create content, yours truly. And on today's show, I'm going to ask you guys a lot of questions. I'm going to ask you, why is Keswick and much of the village of Rivanna a designated growth area that has very little growth? And then I'm going to compare and contrast the village of Rivanna and its very little growth. And then I'm going to compare and contrast the village of Rivanna, and its very little growth, despite being a designated growth area, with Crozet.

I've been in this community for 24-plus years, just celebrating my 24-year anniversary. I believe that was in August 25th, when I arrived as a first- year at the University of Virginia, Dabney 101, old dorms of UVA, a first year that was looking for more mischief and trouble than study and academics. And I remember, as a first year,

that this community really didn't head anywhere besides the urban ring. We would go to Barracks Road. Fashion Square Mall was extremely popular in 2000. But Crozet was sleepy. In fact, when I first started covering, my first job was as a student at the University of Virginia. Actually, this was my...

I worked at Ruby Tuesdays in Barracks Road Shopping Center as a host, busboy, bartender, and waiter. That was my first job at UVA. Probably my first job at UVA was managing a gambling book where I would set betting lines or take the betting lines

from what I found online and manage a book for fraternity members, multiple fraternities. So probably my third job, actually the first job was probably gambling, playing cards, playing poker, and hustling. And then managing a sports book was the second. The third job was at Ruby Tuesdays. The cash made from the job at Ruby Tuesdays was

added to the bank of the sports book to help it scale. The fourth job was the job at the newspaper. I started at the newspaper as a stringer for Jerry Ratcliffe, who's the star of the Jerry and Jerry show, Tuesdays at 10.15 a.m. on the I Love Seville Network.

When I worked for Hootie Ratcliffe, he put me on the high school sports beat. And my first assignment as a rising third year, summer before my third year, was a high school volleyball game with the Covenant Eagles against a Christian school at Lynchburg. It might have been Liberty Christian.

And after covering that volleyball game and kind of proving a little of what I can do, he said, okay, you're ready for the next level of stringing or part-time reporting, and that's Friday night football. And Hootie and Chris Wright, Jay Jenkins, Andrew Joyner, John Shiflett. John Shiflett, now the sports editor. Then he was just a staff writer like me. Actually, I was a stringer, and he was a staff writer. I went out and covered high school football,

and I really got to know the community. Got to know Louisa. I got to know John Kajanian and the Orange County Hornets, where at the time they were led by Bradley Starks. Quentin Hunter was on that team. Quentin Hunter was an explosive quarterback and wide receiver, kick returner, now the head coach at Emory & Henry. I got to know Garwin DeBerry at Charlottesville High School.

I got to know Rick Vrhovak, head coach of Almaro football. I got to know Mark Sanford, the head coach of the Covenant Eagles at the time, and Doug Smithers, the athletic director. Got to know John Blake at St. Ann's Belfield. He was the athletic director and the, well, first he was the football coach. Doug Taring was the athletic director at the time. He was also the lacrosse coach. I got to know all these pockets of community in Central Virginia. It was a fantastic way for a 20-year-old to get to know Central Virginia. As a 20-year-old at that time, my first year, my second year, and remember, when I went to college, I didn't come back home. I left, I graduated from a Walsingham Academy in Williamsburg, Virginia. I worked at the deli right across from the Sportsman's Grill, pottery, wine, and cheese. And then when summer was over after my senior year, I left for college,

really did not come back except for the day before Thanksgiving and Thanksgiving Day, Christmas Eve and Christmas Day, and Easter, the day before Easter and Easter Day. Those six days were the extent of me coming back. Every other day was spent in Charlottesville. And my first year and my second year were spent getting to know the Charlottesville bubble. And the Charlottesville bubble consisted of fraternity life, house parties, the UVA corner, sneaking into Coop's and the Biltmore, the Virginian and Orbit's, O'Neill's Irish Pub, which is now Trinity, Biltmore's now Elle's Country Club, I think is what she's calling it.

And I would go and get to know these places. I'd get to know the bartenders. I'd get to know the bouncers. I'd get to know the guys in the back of the house. Got to know the bubble extremely well in my first two years. Then I got this job with Radcliffe, and I got to know the pockets outside the bubble. And one of those pockets I got to

know because I was on the high school football beat and Steve Isaacs was the head coach. He ran a single wing attack that was extremely good. In fact, one of the guys that was in that single wing attack, Chad Wood, a running back, is a regular watcher of this show. As I headed to Crozet to cover the Western Alamo football team, who was very good at the time, Western Alamo is exceptional athletics. They have, you know, athletic balance across the board. They were good at football. They were good at soccer. They were good at tennis. They were good at golf. They were good at basketball. They had coaches that had been in that school system for years. I mean, Skip Hudgens, the head baseball coach at Western Alamo, has been there for generations.

Darren Maynard, the basketball and golf coach, had been there forever. Steve Isaacs was there for a long time. So I was routinely finding myself driving from the Daily Progress on Rio Road, when the paper was headquartered on Rio Road, now a shadow of its former self over there. And I would get in this little Pontiac Sunfire of mine, and I would drive to Crozet. And when I made that trip, either taking the interstate over or taking the long way down Ivy Road to was at that 240 250 split I found that Crozet was so sleepy I thought I'm like look at all this grass look at all this land look at all this undeveloped territory there was no old trail there was no old trail there

was no pro Renata there weren't the gas stations out there past pronoun pro Renata it was the Brownsville market there was no Pro Renata. There weren't the gas stations out there past Pro Renata. It was the Brownsville Market. There was no Harris Teeter Shopping Center. It was the Brownsville Market, Western Admiral High School, Henley. That's about it.

Ivy Elementary was still Meriwether Lewis. There weren't any name changes. When the Western Albemarle football team was looking for something to do, the fans, prior to the game, they were going to the Brownsville market and getting chicken and tailgating over there. And then they'd bring some of the beer and wine

that they purchased, the fried chicken that they bought, and they set up a tailgate in the parking lot at Western Albemarle. The thing to do on a Friday night in 2002, the thing to do on a Friday night in Crozet was to watch Steve Isaac's single-wing attack slice and dice the Jefferson District and make a push deep in the regional and state playoffs.

I realized then that something with Crozet had charm and appeal, the base of the Blue Ridge Mountains. Young and dumb and, well, I'll leave it at that. Keep this as PG-13 show. And I realized then that this community was primed for something that was going to be significant. I just had no idea what it was because I was 20 years old, almost 21 years old, maybe 21 at the time. And what eventually happened was you saw Crozet, Virginia develop into something that I don't think anyone even anticipated 20 years ago. 20 years ago, when the Friday night thing to do in Crozet was to watch a football team, high school, in the Jefferson District,

a bunch of white boys try to compete with limited athleticism, but well-coached white boys that understood their system and how to execute it. And they won, and they won, and they captivated the Crozet crazies. That's what happened. No one 20 years ago ever thought

Crozet would look like what it is today. And today what you see is some of the most significant density in Central Virginia. Think about this. How many neighborhoods in Central Virginia will you see the kind of density and amenities and walkability as you see in Old Trail. Old Trail's got a country club. It's got a golf course. It's got tennis. It's got swimming. It's got homes that range the attached product, what,

from 800 grand, the detached product, some of that's probably sniffing $2 million. You have lots that are post stamps that are homes, that are home to that are homes that, that are home to a million dollar plus single family detached homes. You have restaurants, you have an ACAC out there. You have, you have nightlife, you have, um, it in, in a position that's directly across from a high school and adjacent to a middle school and an elementary school.

It's as unique of a neighborhood as you will find in central Virginia. I sincerely am asking you this question. Think about what Old Trail has and give me another neighborhood that has the, the, um, connectivity, walkability, amenity, proximity to schools, density that Old Trail has. I sincerely am asking that question. Maybe you point to Forest Lakes. Forest Lakes doesn't have a golf course. There's no country club at Forest Lakes. There's no high school right next to Forest Lakes. No high school next to Forest Lakes. It does have some nightlife, but I would be hesitant to walk to some of that nightlife from Forest Lakes.

You're playing Frogger and risking your life. Old Trail, you can do it. We saw Old Trail. Was it the Jessup family that owned the dirt out there in Crozet? The folks behind Pepsi-Cola bottling in Central Virginia? The Jessup family had a lion's share of real estate in Charlottesville and Alamaro County that they've slowly divested themselves of.

In fact, friends of the program, people I admire and respect, Jenny Stoner and Johnny Pritzloff have made a nice little purchase of some of that that Jessup held real estate commercial in Charlottesville City. Crozet and Old Trail was turned, was eyed as a designated growth area. In the old garden Crozet, I don't think ever anticipated 20 years ago, it would be what Crozet is today. And what it is today is either depending on how you view the glass,

whether half full or half empty. Some would view the glass as this as being a development success story. They would say Crozet went from grass and sleepy and no tax base and nothing to do and not much besides cows and beautiful landscape at the base of the Blue Ridge to million-dollar-plus homes, restaurants, and basically its own community. You can live in Crozet and not have to leave Crozet for anything. That was not the case 20 years ago. You had an IGA grocery store, but if you wanted some nightlife and some entertainment, you were leaving Crozet and heading to Almar or the city of Charlottesville. Today, you don't have to leave at all. If you're a glasses half full kind of person, you see Crozet and being like, this was a density development success story.

If you're a glasses half empty kind of person, and maybe that's not even fair for the folks that are opposed to what's happening to Crozet. I will not call them glasses half empty. I will say maybe resistant to change. If you're resistant to change, you'll see Crozet as a policy and development failure. You will see the old guard pushed out. You will highlight traffic and quality of life issues that are tied to overcrowded schools, tied to every piece of real estate in Crozet developed to its absolute capacity, and more continues to happen. More development continues to happen. There is a large portion, and I'm talking the many generation family of Crozet, that have been gentrified out of the community. Crozet 20 years ago was a very blue collar. It had a country boy and country gal element to it. Lifted F-150s, lifted Silverados,

country music, Garth Brooks and Tim McGraw blazing, Bud Heavies, Beast Lights, Natty Lights being pounded, Friday Night Football, almost like this West Texas feel to it, Varsity Blues or Friday Night Lights. Today, Crozet, no lifted Silverados, lifted F-150s, Bud Heavies and Garth Brooks.

Instead, what do you got? You got five-series BMWs, Mercedes-Benz, Land Rovers, Porsches, million-dollar-plus houses on a.15-acre parcel. Schools that have been branded as Stab West. An athletic department, still incredibly talented.

But now make up, not of those country boys, but instead of the country boys, the blue collar, the farm strong, as Steve Isaacs liked to call it. Today it's the young men and young women that are from the homes that are well above the $124,200 family median household income, according to HUD. And I'm going to make this tie with Crozet on today's talk show, and Judah, we'll give some love to Charlottesville Sanitary Supply. Let me know when the Facebook group is up and running, if you can give me a thumbs up on that.

60 years in business, Charlottesville Sanitary Supply is a three-generation business, the torch being passed from John Vermillion to Andrew Vermillion on East High Street. Charlottesville Sanitary Supply, a trusted name in the game. I want to compare and contrast Crozet to Keswick. Keswick, a designated growth area. And Mike Pruitt, Albemarle County Board of Supervisors, said this about the village of Rivanna, which as Neil Williamson highlighted

on the Free Enterprise Forum, includes my former stopping grounds, our former neighborhood, the Glenmore gated community. Pruitt says, I talk to my residents very often, and I want to say directly that the village of Rivanna is by all accounts a policy failure. It should not exist. It represents some really catastrophic planning decisions

that this board, once upon a time that also like I do not think it is unfair to say to speak to some racial and class animus that might have been held at certain place in time that this is where we decided to plan a brand new community of a certain type basically Pruitt is saying that the village of Rivanna is in Keswick and much of the Keswick area was created by policymakers and Albemarle County elected officials to be a white, wealthy playground. That's what he's saying. He is saying the village of Rivanna, Keswick and Glenmore, was influenced

by policymakers and decision makers to be a stopping ground for the ultra-rich. And why these two areas can be compared and contrast is because they are designated growth areas in very close proximity to the urban ring. And in this 20-year period of time,

let's go 2004 to 2024, you've seen Crozet and Keswick go in the complete opposite direction of development and how the areas are managed by stakeholders. And stakeholders are not just elected officials. And interestingly, in 2025, three spots on the Board of Supervisors are coming up for re-election. What is that, Judah? Galloway, McKeel, and Jim Andrews on the Board of Supervisors, two on City Council. Are we up and running on the group? I'm still trying to work it out. All right, Judah's getting us up on the group here. I want to have this open-ended discussion with you guys. Why have these two areas that are very close proximity to Albemarle County's heart

and the city of Charlottesville and the urban ring, if you probably did it as the crow flies, they're damn near close to the same miles away from each other, meaning Keswick from Alb Morrow's Urban Ring and Crozet from Al Morrow's Urban Ring? Why have they gone the direction or the tail or the path of two completely different entities? I would say it's because of the following,

and get ready and buckle up for this. When Crozet was developed, you had a family, initially the Bates family, and then the torch was passed after the Bates family perhaps didn't develop it like they should, have a level of interest over the board of supervisors that was significant, that was focused on creating lots and a massive subdivision in Old Trail and putting as many homes on there as possible. And at the time, Crozet was very blue-collar, was very perhaps not as organized

as perhaps they probably should have been, was perhaps not as nuanced as their Keswick counterpart, maybe not as focused on the project that was happening before them development. And before they knew it, Old Trail led a level of development momentum that could not be stopped, almost like a barge on a water.

You can't stop a barge or pivot or turn a barge very quickly. Once it starts getting momentum, it will continue in the direction it's going, and it's going to take a while to shift it. On the other hand, what you had with Keswick and the village of Rivanna was stakeholders and influencers that had the ear of the Board of Supervisors, that were deep-pocketed. This was estate and family money, multi-generation money.

This was a development in Glenmore that was done by the heaviest of heavy hitters, and Frank Kessler. Look atters, and Frank Kessler. Look at the history of Frank Kessler, the man behind the Glenmore neighborhood. There's a rock outside the club at Glenmore, and this rock outside the club at Glenmore, at the front door,

before you walk into the primary clubhouse, the rock immortalizes the developer, Frank Kessler, who lived in the neighborhood. And that rock said, and I'm paraphrasing it here, and it might not be an exact paraphrase, but it's pretty damn close. He envisioned it, he built it, he

lived it, and then it has his name, Frank Kessler. Kessler, the man behind Forest Lakes Development as well. A UVA product and a guy that was larger than life, Frank Kessler. A man who birthed many businesses, Frank Kessler, and development projects. He had the ear of the Board of Supervisors and the influence, and he galvanized with the estate owners, the farm owners, maybe some would even call them plantation owners in Keswick, and prevented development from happening. And as he

built Glenmore into a tony and prestigious gated community, a wealthy gated community, he then created 950 homes. And these 950 homes, it's basically at max capacity now. There's one, two, three limited lots that are available for development. But at this point, Glenmore being, what, 30-some years old, 40-some years old, the lots that are left, their topography is extremely challenging to develop. So the 950 homes that have been actualized in Glenmore, those heavy hitters in these homes, nuanced, wealthy, connected, organized, are now organizing with the estate and farm owners around Keswick. And as a team, they are preventing pretty much all development possible there.

They last killed the Breezy Hill development that Southern was trying to bring, Frank Bailiff and Charlie Armstrong to Keswick. They chopped it down into basically a tiny subdivision, as opposed to what Frank and Charlie initially wanted to build, and they were able to chop it down by highlighting roads and EMT and firefighters and police and water, basically a lack of infrastructure. Now you're left with the village of Rivanna, and I was a part of some of those conversations, and I've highlighted that in the past. I'm not speaking out of turn. Now you're left with the village of Rivanna, which includes Glenmore and the 950 homes, as Mike Pruitt has called it, a policy failure.

And then he also highlights that this village of Rivanna was created to be a playground of white wealthy folks, basically is what he's called it, while sitting on the dais. Crozet, on the other hand, has turned into significant density, and while it still has the makeup and profile of white wealthy folks, it has a level of density that is probably as significant density-wise as any handful of square miles possible. I mean, if you're thinking of density tied to what Crozet has, you probably look at the Forest Lakes, Hollymead area, and then what do you look at? The Mill Creek, Lake Renovia, Avon Extended Area,

maybe the Fifth Street Extended Area. Even the Fifth Street Extended Area with Mosby Mountain and Mountain Valley Farms and Redfields and Oak Hill Farm doesn't have the level of density that Old Trail has. Avon Extended probably does, but Avon Extended doesn't have the walkability to amenities. Avon Extended doesn't have a golf course. Avon Extended doesn't have restaurants that you can walk to. If you're crossing Avon Extended by foot, you're risking your life there. It's as unique a neighborhood Old Trails you're going to find. So on today's show, I want to highlight the fact that these two areas, which were both focused and designated growth areas, have taken the evolution or turn of complete opposites. At one time in 2004, you can make the argument

that, in fact, you probably have to go past 2004, probably to when Kessler was considering developing Glenmore. Maybe you go even further than that to 1984, 40 years ago. 40 years ago, maybe they were twins.

Crozet and the Keswick area. Farms that had been in families for generations. Why 40 years ago did Crozet go the path of what it is today? And why 40 years ago did Keswick go to the path of what it is today when they are in a lot of ways, 40 years ago, targeted growth areas. That's a hell of a topic for the viewer and listener. A hell of a topic. And the reason I'm bringing that up is because of Pruitt's comments. Let's go to Lottie Murray with some comments,

and then I'll give you some more perspective. Crozet is a development area in part because of the threat of annexation. Western Albemarle High School is where it is because Albemarle was afraid Charlottesville would just seize a new high school if it was built anywhere near Charlottesville. Let's go to Deep Throat. Lonnie, keep offering more perspective on this. This one is right up your alley as someone that lives in Western Albemarle.

We'll go to Deep Throat. He says this. Crozet, 3,400 housing units and 3.7 square miles. Extremely dense. City of Charlottesville, 20,000 housing units and 10.2 square miles to put in perspective. That's a great stat right there. I'll give that to you again. 3,400 housing units and 3.7 square miles in Crozet.

City of Charlottesville, 20,000 housing units and 10 square miles. That's a great stat. I would love to know the housing units in Keswick per square miles, Deep Throat. Could you provide that? Keswick, how many housing units per square miles? And then we can compare and contrast that to Crozet.

Ginny Hu, watching the program. I went to Pro Renata for the first time on Saturday, and I will definitely be back there. John Shabe is going to be glad to hear that, Ginny Hu. We love when you watch the program. When I was in 2004 going to these high school games as a 20-year-old, as a 21-year-old, everyone was talking then that the schools were phenomenal. Everyone was talking then.

When I was going in to Monticello High School to cover these games, a lot of the kids that were at Monticello High School, which is down Fifth Street and Avon Extended, were kids from the Keswick area. The kids from the Keswick area were either going to St. Anne's or Covenant or Monticello. And when I was going then to cover these games, the conversation was not about how great the school was. And I'm not trying to throw shade on Monticello at all.

But everyone you talk to when it comes to Henley and Western speaks to the quality of the education that was offered, which is why people sprinted to start their families or move their families to Western Alamaro. Now you talk to a lot of the families in Western Alamaro, they still speak of the quality of education, but then they quickly add to that the schools are entirely too overcrowded. And it will get to the point where the schools become so overcrowded that the education will get to the point where the schools become so overcrowded that the education will suffer. And I think we may be approaching that point, depending the family that you talk to. I was at a cocktail event on a Saturday night, and some of this came up. And as the event, you know, got deeper in the hour, the initial conversation and the conversation at the end were very different

because of a little liquid courage. You talk to some folks and they'll say it is already start to suffer. And then I'll also add this. What is left for... The group's not going to get up today.

So we'll just weave you into the conversation here. I mean, you're 37 minutes in. Even if you get the group up here, the show's three quarters over. Two thirds over. I'll even add this. What is left to do with Crozet? What more can be done?

What more density can be done there? Are we not at the point of, let's pump the brakes here? I mean, you can't ramrod anything else into the mix. And you're certainly not going to ramrod anything in the mix in the Keswick area, because the community is not going to allow it. John Blair's got some comments here. Here's something that your listeners may not know. Western Albemarle was in the Valley District until the mid-1990s. They used to play the Stanton-Harrisonburg schools in the 80s and 90s.

There were years in the 80s when they did not play Charlottesville High School in football. It was very much more valley-centered than Charlottesville in the 70s, 80s, and 90s. He also says it's interesting that Pro Renata is looking towards the valley from Crozet. Maybe that part of the county is starting to look backwards, back towards the valley than Charlottesville. I'll add to that. When I first started covering Western Amarillo High School in 2002, when Steve Isaacs was the head coach there, one of Western's primary rivals was the Waynesboro Little Giants,

which was a legacy rival of when it was focused on competing in the Shenandoah Valley. When I first covered Western Amaral in 2002, Western Amaral, the football team, identified character-wise and its brand of football, this smash-mouth, run-oriented, Brian Leskinik, Chad Wood, single-wing type of attack of football, it identified with beating the farm boys from the valley. It was not identifying its stuff with the athlete-centered football that you would see at Albemarle or at Charlottesville High School. It could not match up athlete-wise with Albemarle and Charlottesville High School.

It did not have that makeup of athlete. It had farm boys on the team. Then you saw with Western Al Morrow, you almost saw a transition from the single wing to when Hunter Price was calling the shots, and it became more of an air raid type of offense with Mark Jordan as the quarterback. John Freeman, the voice of the Cavaliers,

played at Western Al Morrow and was a standout football player. He was a safety on that football program. You saw the football team at Western evolve with its makeup almost as the community evolved. 2002, smash mouth,

farm boy, brawl with you type of football. Then as the community started getting developed and you started getting more families moving in and you started getting less farm boy and more middle, upper class, it had to change its style of football and became more of an air raid,

pass-happy, talent instead of beat-you-up, explosive. I'm not doing a great job of explaining this but like more focus on athleticism than beating you up and smash mouth the athlete changed and the athlete changed because those who lived in the area changed now you look at it and that farm boys beat you up

brawl you style of football would never play out it's not the lifted F-150, lifted Silverado, pound the Budweiser around a Friday night party in a farm around a fire. It's instead a BMW, Porsche, Mercedes-Benz, let's have some rum and sodas, pinkies up in someone's luxury basement type of Friday night party. Deep Throat's got some stats on Keswick that I want to get to. Glenmore is 950 homes and 1.8 square miles, so around half the density of Crozet.

He also says, Keswick CDP doesn't actually include Glamour, so I can't get numbers that make sense. So that right there is a snapshot. Crozet, you have 3,400 housing units and 3.7 miles. If I were to divide that by two, you'd have 1,700 housing units and what?

Roughly 1.8 square miles. That is considerably more, the 17 housing units, than the 950 units that are in Glenmore. Pruitt highlighted this from the Board of Supervisors, calling this growth area a policy failure. And I would say Pruitt can call it a policy failure and can make that statement legitimately. Legitimately, he can make that statement because it was a designated growth area. I would add to that policy failure statement by saying it was a policy failure because it was intended to be a policy failure. It was intended to be a policy failure by the folks that developed Crozet and the surrounding community. When the village of, when the Rivanna Village,

the neighborhood right outside Glenmore, came to market, the Rivanna Village neighborhood right outside Glenmore is dense in its subdivision. Homes on small lots, similar to Old Trail. That got significant resistance from Glenmore. Breezy Hill, significant resistance. The intention of policy failure was the plan all along by the organized residents who have created no density or limited density in ways that no other area in Central Virginia has done. I'll rephrase, no other area in Albemarle County has

done. You have significant folks that are against density and development in Fluvanna County. But in Albemarle County, I can make a confident statement that in Albemarle County, you will not find a small pocket of 950 to say 1,200 homes that have limited development more than what you have seen in the village of Rivanna. And depending on how you look at it, glass is half full, glass is half empty, people will pound their chests and say, that's right, Jerry,

or the pruits of the world will pound the dais and say that's a policy failure and a direct reflection of a class and racial system, depending on what side of the fence you are on. I know this is in your bailiwick here, J-dubs, but if there's anything you want to add, please do. Kevin Higgins has some comments that I'm going to get to. Lonnie Murray, who lives this, Kevin does as well in Greenwood,

Lonnie lives this, says, sports as Western has moved away from football. We've got nationally ranked swimming and lacrosse teams. The cross country team has always been a leader in the state. Western Amarillo even had a swimmer in the Olympics. Why do we think that Western has moved away from football success? I know that answer. Western has moved away from football success because it's no longer the roster of farm boys. And it's now the roster of million plus homes and what comes with it. And what comes with the million plus homes are the success in the tennis, the lacrosse, swimming, success in the sports where you need financial investment, significant financial investment. Golf.

It's almost become, in a lot of ways, the profile of a private school. Fascinating. Kevin Higgins says, Miller School Road is next. You just watch. It's mostly open farms with thousands of open acres. Look at Yancey Lumber property and misty mountain campground we haven't seen anything yet get ready crozet then he says

greenwood which he's he lives is going to be also in the microscope of development the development that happened is happening in the crozet area is relentless and the development that is happening in the Crozet area is relentless. And the development that's happening in the Keswick area is... Non-existent. Non-existent. And 40 years ago, both development areas were twins. They were twins. Family farms. Think about it.

Family farms. think about it family farms but one development leader in crozet jessups and baits and one developed leader in keswick kessler and what he did with glenmore took different paths of development and utilized their clout and influence at the time to shape what those areas would become. And today they are no longer twins, but polar opposites. Fascinating. All right. Start of the program here. I want to get to some other topics on today's show. I want to get to the most significant development project of late in the city of Charlottesville.

And the reason why I want to bring this up is tomorrow as you're rotating the lower thirds and put yourself on a two-shot, tomorrow before the Board of Architectural Review, Jeff Levine of Heirloom Development is going to talk about the Violent Crown movie theater and what could be an apartment tower at the Violent Crown movie theater. He's going through the early stages of materializing this project, making it come to reality. He wants, if he has his druthers, a 184-foot apartment building with, what, 200 and some units on it, right? How is that going to shrink the overall size of the units?

I don't follow what you're saying. Well, normally 180 feet for a building would have 13 floors, right? He wants to raise the height so he can put more apartments in there. He wants to raise the number of floors. He wants to put more apartments in there, yeah.

The reason he's going to make it... You should read infoseville.com. That clearly outlines what he's trying to do. In height. You should read InfoSeville.com. That clearly outlines what he's trying to do. In fact, I can read it here for you. He wants to put more apartments in there. Yeah. And why he wants to put more apartments in there is because he wants to make more money.

This is on InfoSeville, which is one of Sean Tubbs' brands. He says, He says, Loom Development has a contract to purchase the property if they can get approval for a new building. The new development code allows up to 10 stories by right or 142 feet. If a bonus provision is not taken, if additional affordable units are provided, the structure can be as high as 13 stories or 184 feet. He wants to go to 18 stories. And why he wants to go from 13 stories to 18 stories is because he wants to get more apartments in there. And he wants to get more apartments in there because he wants to make more money. Okay, there's nothing in there about the added height. So I thought that he was trying to fit more floors into the same height.

Is that not true? He wants to go from 13 floors to 18 floors. Right. And the extra floors will create more apartments for him. Yeah, I get that. That's what he's trying to do there, is create more apartments so he can make more money. I know.

Which part am I not explaining well? You're not answering the question about the overall height. Is there anything in there about how the height is going to change or just the fact that he wants to add more floors? Yeah, the 184 the 184 feet creates more apartments i thought it was all i thought that was already the cap yeah he wants to go from oh my goodness he wants to go from 142 to 184 feet okay gotcha understood yeah and the extra 100 the the 184 feet is going to give him more apartments in there.

He wants more apartments in this spot. Okay. You see what I'm saying? Yeah. I don't think I'd heard the 142 number before. So that was what was tripping me up. Okay. So read infoseville.com.

This has got a very good story on this. All right. This got me thinking of what is the most significant development project in the city of Charlottesville of late? That's a question for you. What's the most significant development project? Yeah. Well, in Seville, is there one? I mean, that's not even really potential right now. That one is, we don't even know how long the lease is going to hold out for Violet Crown.

Most significant development project of late in the city of Charlottesville. There's been development projects of late. You could point to what's happened with Dairy Market, where it used to be the Monticello Dairy, where it used to be home to McGrady's Irish Pub, where it used to be home to the Splat House, Sharky's, a Latin grocery, to now a food hall and 2,500 a month apartments.

The most significant development project of late, you can point to what Jeff Levine did on West Main Street where he converted the Blue Moon Diner building that's a significant one most significant development project of late as Deep Throat says you can point to the Verve you can point to Corn Capshalls, the Flats where Mexicali is located, the old world of beer spot

you can point to the standard across the street. What I find interesting of both the flats and the standard across the street is they have struggled mightily to rent their storefront levels. Outside of Potbelly's at the standard, the sandwich shop, those storefronts have been vacant

since they built those projects. Could it be because there's nothing there? The reason those storefronts have struggled is because and I think Mexicali is changing this. It's busy. It's got traffic. It's got a brand. It's building reputation.

But those storefronts at the flats and at the standard have struggled because they're in this purgatory. They're in the purgatory that's between the corner and the downtown mall. And what that area is. And right by the bridge. Right?

I had a conversation with the folks that are managing the, is it the Elysian? We just put a plan together for them the Elysian on Stonefield the apartments Elysian is how we say it Elysian you're talking a third of capacity there at Stonefield with amenities within walking distance. Two-thirds empty. We've talked with their leadership team, their leasing team.

Two-thirds empty. Think about that, ladies and gentlemen. Which is crazy when we have a housing shortage. But the argument has been made on this talk show and by viewers and listeners on this show, do we have a multifamily shortage? Do we have a single family detached shortage or do we have a multifamily shortage or do we have a housing shortage in totality? Many have argued on this show, yours truly, John Blair, Deep Throat have argued that the shortage we have is tied to single family detached housing and not luxury apartments. Livable Charlottesville, the urbanist advocacy group,

says any housing of any kind is good. But is any housing of any kind actually good when that housing sits vacant? You have two-thirds of a luxury building within walking distance of half a dozen to a dozen restaurants and bars and a movie theater and one of the best shopping districts. two-thirds of that apartment tower, we've been told the most expensive price per square foot in the Commonwealth of Virginia for apartments is what we've been

told. Two-thirds of it's empty. Do we have a multifamily glut? Why when I was looking to purchase, when I was kicking the tires and looking to purchase the portfolio off East High Street, went to multiple local banks to look to buy this. One of the local banks, Fulton, said we're not lending on anything that is over three units right now. We have too much multifamily. Too much paperwork hearing for multifamily right now. We're not lending for multifamily. Do we

have a multifamily glut? Seems that way. So I said, the most significant development projects of late, think about the ones we've outlined. The Verve Apartments. Yeah. What Jeff Levine did by Blue Moon Diner Apartments.

Chris Henry, Dairy Market Apartments. The Flats Apartments. The Standard Apartments. All the same product type. Yeah. If more apartments come into market, does that really alleviate, does that really stabilize pricing? Not if no one's using it. Not if no one's using it.

Because the theory is if you can afford, what was the prices? We saw this at the Elysian. Elysian? Elysian. What was the prices at those? Those. And we're just going to offer our commentary without, we're going to offer this with analysis and without commentary on this one.

Because we would love to work and help them. They have a quality product here. They have one and two and three bedrooms. I think it's fantastic product type that they're bringing to market. Their one bedroom studio is to market. Their one bedroom studio is at that number. It's what they're asking. $2,500 or 2600? I better be getting daily massage for that. You can walk to

Burton's. They don't give massages though. They got swimming pools. They got a full gym. You got Stonefield. You can walk to all those shops and restaurants. My point is this. The most significant development projects of late in the city

of Charlottesville have all been apartment towers. Yeah. And here we have a guy talking about an apartment tower tomorrow in the Board of Architectural Review. He's also talking about a hotel. Does it seem like such a good idea after the discussion we just had? I'll follow up with you with that. If you're Jeff Levine,

do you consider pausing and pumping the brakes with the uncertainty of the NCO? Or do you say, I'm going to try to lock everything in now before Judge Worrell gets involved and potentially changes it? So if... This is what he's going to ask.

This is the question he's going to ask. If the NCO gets shot to pieces by Judge Worrell, if someone locks it in right now, are they grandfathered in with what existed today? I'm just curious. If the NCO gets knocked down, do we go straight back to where we were before? I don't think we would go straight back to where we were before. It goes into a phase where they start doing more research on it, figuring out how to change it. Is that what happens?

Who knows? Oh, man. And wouldn't that uncertainty scare the bejeebus out of you when you have a $180 million building that you're trying to build? Definitely. I mean, it's not like you want to start something that's going to get stopped midway through. I don't think it would be stopped midway through. You don't think they would stop it?

Once construction started? If something was no longer under code? No, no. I think that's the type of thing where you would get... Keith Smith talked about this on Real Talk. Folks that are trying to lock in right now will be able to lock in right now. It's the ones that are considering their project

and before they start pitching to government officials, city hall, city council, bar, planning commission, that are going through the planning phase right now of hiring engineers and architects and attorneys to get them to market. Are they willing to invest hundreds of thousands of dollars on a plan before the actual pitch happens? A plan that could change. That's the point he made, which I thought was a good one. But in the case of Levine, he's hoping that he can get the

NCO changed for this project. So he wouldn't be grandfathered in by starting... He's hoping he can get the NCO changed now. Before Worrell's ruling. Before this could go to court. Before this could go to a jury trial. Before Worrell's ruling, before this could go to court, before this could go to a jury trial, before the lawsuit gains even more traction. He wants to do this. He wants to do this now. If he locks, if he's able to lock in the tax breaks that he wants and the apartments and height that he wants, this dude would do it.

So my question still stands, though. Is that still a good idea? Is he going to end up in the same boat as the Elysians and sitting on a 184-foot-tall, 18-story monstrosity on the downtown mall that's only one-third filled? That's a great question. It's a great question. How much does he lose in that case? That's a great question. And jump, leapboarding

off of that, is there anywhere to actually build houses in Charlottesville? I mean, is the only thing you can do is like what Roger Voiceney wants to do? Well, Chris could still do something on Preston. Tear down... Yeah, but that's one person and one development. I'm saying, is there any... He also owns Ivy Plaza across the way.

Okay. Which is massive if you think about it. Is there any way to build housing besides tearing out a house and trying to put like three or four or six units in there? You got Ickes Park. That's for sale. That's a massive amount of dirt. What's that, 17 acres?

Yeah. I've called Ickx Park the most valuable, underdeveloped piece of property in the city. I mean, how much longer does the city of Charlottesville store its heavy equipment in the Star Hill neighborhood at the city yard? Significant acreage right in the heartbeat of the city. When does the city have the common sense to form a JV with Almar County

to store their heavy equipment not there and allow development to happen there? I mean, that's like saying I'm going to store my Bacos and my tractor trailers and my dump trucks on the 50-yard line at Scott Stadium or on the Rotunda or on the lawn. That's what the city is doing. Let's store all our heavy equipment in the Star Hill neighborhood, a neighborhood that's marginalized and gentrifying quickly. So there's still a lot of project, still a lot of development needs to happen that doesn't involve teardown. But Ludwig and Allen are asking too much for X. The city is not going to move its heavy equipment anytime soon.

The Kim's Market IGA just sold. Anthony's now calling the shots over there, Woodard. He's trying to figure out the grocery store. That hasn't gained any traction lately. Think about that. $500 a square foot to build a box for a grocery store, but you need somebody to operate it. Tuesday, tomorrow,

I want to see how Levine responds. I want to see how the city responds. And I want to see if this new turn of events that we talked about Friday with Worrell allowing two of the four counts to move forward to the evidence gathering stage, how that impacts this process as well,

or if it impacts it at all. That's something to follow. The next thing I want to follow on the show as you're rotating the headlines, two pieces of content that need to get out before we close the program. Koala Chihi has announced her retirement. And ladies and gentlemen,

this is a significant heavy hitter at the University of Virginia that's been at the university for 43 years. She's come on the I Love Seville network. 43 years she's been employed by UVA. Chihi's legacy at the university will be felt for generations to come. Sheehy has partnered with colleagues across grounds to do the following. Execute the university's

capital program, enhance historic preservation efforts in the Academical Village, and ensure the highest level of maintenance and care of the university's buildings and grounds. She's helped develop ambitious plans to guide the university's comprehensive approach to sustainability, including being carbon neutral by 2030, fossil fuel free by 2050. She's created a roadmap with her colleagues, a framework to construct additional

on-ground student housing to support UVA's living and learning community. She's enhanced relationships between the local community and the university, and she's enriched the lives of many, as UVA reported through her mentorship. 43 years ago, she arrived at UVA in 1982 as a budget analyst.

Wow. That's impressive. She's the executive vice president and chief operating office... No, excuse me. She is the senior vice president for Operations and State Government Relations, and she's going to retire on July 1. Two other items that I want to talk about as the week goes on. There's five spots up for re-election in 2025,

three in Albemarle County and two in the city of Charlottesville. And the discussions are happening now with the people who are considering running for those five spots. Do Ned Galloway and Diantha McKeel and Jim Andrews have opposition in 2025 on the Board of Supervisors? Brian Pinkston and Juan Diego Wade running for re-election, will they have opposition? We should follow that. And then the final topic, which we will talk tomorrow on the Jerry and Jerry show, Tony Elliott's got two games left to get bowl eligible.

Does he consider benching quarterback Anthony Calandria and allowing Tony Musket to start for the final two games against SMU and Virginia Tech? That'll be a topic of tomorrow's program at 10.15 a.m. with Jerry Ratcliffe. For Judah Wickauer, my name is Jerry Miller. So long. Thank you.