The I Love CVille Show With Jerry Miller! - Kroger (Hydraulic & 29) Expected To Close By Aug 22; The Real Community Impact Of Kroger Closing

Episode Date: June 23, 2025

The I Love CVille Show headlines: Kroger (Hydraulic & 29) Expected To Close By Aug 22 This Is The Real Community Impact Of Kroger Closing Potbelly On West Main Has Closed Its Doors Is West Main Street A Viable Business Corridor? Key Storefront Vacancies On West Main Street Blue Collar And Working Class Businesses Closing AlbCo Candidate Scott Smith On Show On 6/24 Downtown Executive Offices For Rent (Contact Us) Read Viewer & Listener Comments Live On-Air The I Love CVille Show airs live Monday – Friday from 12:30 pm – 1:30 pm on The I Love CVille Network. Watch and listen to The I Love CVille Show on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn, iTunes, Apple Podcast, YouTube, Spotify, Fountain, Amazon Music, Audible, Rumble and iLoveCVille.com.

Welcome to the I Love Seville show guys. My name is Jerry Miller. Thank you kindly for joining us on a Monday afternoon in downtown Charlottesville. It's great to connect with you on the I Love Seville network today, a show presented by our friends at Charlottesville Business Brokers and Charlottesville Sanitary Supply. A lot we're going to cover on the program, guys. Kroger closed on Route 29 in the very near future. August 22 is the chitter-chatter. Now, this story is a lot more than just the convenience of buying and selling groceries. It's a lot more than just picking up some bread and some milk and some groceries and some beer at this location versus driving down to Barracks Road to do the same. This story is about more frontline jobs, entry-level jobs, blue collar jobs being evaporated or eviscerated from the Charlottesville job market. I wanna talk about that today.

I wanna talk on today's program, the real impact of Kroger closing with you, the viewer and listener. Again, I wanna highlight the challenges of the grocery business and again reiterate the absolute pipe dream of having a grocery store run by the Fifeville neighborhood in co-op fashion. Or just having a grocery store run by any entity on Cherry Avenue.

I want to talk on today's show, guys, West Main Street and the headwinds that are obvious for one of the most important gateways in the city of Charlottesville, and that's West Main Street. Devil's Backbone, we broke the news for you last week, closing its West Main Street taproom, or it appears to be closing it. It certainly hasn't been open for an extended period of time. That private event, there's a sign that's in the doorway,

closed for a private event. Goodness gracious, that private event must be so hopping that people have turned into ghosts because when I look into that tap room, there's nobody in there. So we'll talk about Devil's Backbone closing, Pot Bellies closing, ladies and gentlemen, Blue Moon Diner closing, although we're hearing the rumblings that Blue Moon Diner is set to open as another iteration. A lot of topics on West Main Street's viability on today's show. We will talk, ladies and gentlemen, about a candidate that's going to join us

on the program tomorrow, Scott Smith, who's running for the board supervisor seat in the Samuel Miller district. He's gonna be in studio, the Republican, that's pursuing a seat on a Democratic controlled board. Scott Smith in studio tomorrow at 1230. Fred Missle, his competition. He's a Democrat who works for the UVA Foundation. Think about the courage you need to have to run as a Republican, not as an independent, but as a Republican in Almaro County for the

Board of Supervisors. That man in studio tomorrow. Judah Wickower, studio camera and two shot. If you're watching on YouTube, subscribe to our YouTube channel. Hit the notifications button, the little bell on there so you're notified when we go on air. And if you're watching on Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, or one of the other social media platforms, please like and share the show. We work hard for you and that's the only thing we ask in return. Vanessa Parkhill has done that in Earleysville. Vanessa, we are grateful for your support. Thank you kindly, Queen of Earleysville. Jason Noble and Lottie Murray, thank you kindly for watching the program. We'll get to your comments in a matter of moments. Headlines,

anything you want to highlight that's on the rundown list or something that did not make the rundown list, Judah Wickauer? Yeah, we've got some news about the goings on at the Charlottesville Police Department. Due to decisions in the City Council, they will not be using Peregrin. That's a system that connects police systems around the state at the very least to share information and they will be disconnecting their flock cameras from all other flock systems. So only people with access to the flock system here in Charlottesville will have access to what our cameras see. Your thoughts on that?

I think it's understandable considering the makeup of our council. I think it's a bit in a way disappointing. There are tools that we have at hand I think it's a bit, in a way, disappointing. There are tools that we have at hand that could assist our police department and we will not be using them. Yeah, I got, goodness gracious, I'm of the mindset and I guess I'm in the minority here.

Let's equip Mike Cautious and the Charlottesville Police Department with as many resources as possible. Yeah. And if we require a, you know, a stern eye to watch over things, then let's do that, but don't ignore the tools that we have at hand. I mean, we still have a shooter on the loose from the first downtown shooting. I think we have two shooters on the loose.

The second downtown shooting, they're still looking for the second guy. The first downtown shooting, there's been no arrests made with that one. In a time where Charlottesville is plagued by gun violence, why don't we equip the police with as many resources as possible? I beg as a downtown landlord, real estate owner and business owner to equip the police with as much resources as possible. Goodness gracious. And thank the Lord, and I'm knocking on wood here, thank the Lord that this past weekend we didn't have gun violence for a third straight weekend in downtown Charlottesville.

There were shots fired over the weekend in Belmont, but goodness gracious, thank God nothing in downtown Charlottesville. There were shots fired over the weekend in Belmont, but goodness gracious, thank God nothing in downtown Charlottesville. The enhanced police presence that's on the downtown mall, chief Cotches, more foot patrols by his team members, his colleagues, seemed to materialize with safety and success this past weekend. Judah, Charlottesville Sanitary Supply has been in business for 61 years. I encourage you, the viewer and listener, to support the businesses that you want to see around for another 61 years. And this is a third generation business run by a family in Almaro County that's been here for four generations. So three generations of operators and four generations of roots in Almaro County, John Vermillion and Andrew Vermillion, honest people, communicative people,

doing business the right way on East High Street and online at Charlottesville sanitarysupply.com. And guys, our team, our in-house team at Charlottesville Business Brokers, I'm working on a deal right now with a very established brand and a seller finance deal that we're trying to structure here. But Charlottesville Business Brokers, I'm leading that team, more than $4 million in total transactions over the last 24 months.

If you're looking to buy or sell a business, there's no team better equipped than what we're doing at Charlottesville Business Brokers, CharlottesvilleBusinessBrokers.com. The lead of the show, goodness gracious, great balls of fire, is Kroger. You want to set the stage and I'll offer some commentary? Kroger on hydraulic, closing its doors, and many of the community are up at arms that

a grocery store that they have fond memories with or a grocery store that offers convenience, Judah, from a location standpoint, is closing. And that's just part of the story. Offer the who, what, when, where, why first, please. Well, the interesting part of the story is that it's not closing because it wasn't profitable. It's closing because Kroger apparently wants to make a modest, what do they call it,

a modest financial benefit. Yeah, Kroger wants to make more money. So they're consolidating stores in Charlottesville, and they're saying we're going to close one of them, and say if you want to keep shopping at Kroger, go to the two other Krogers that are on Route 29. Yeah. And it should be noted that all three of these Krogers are in,

basically in line. One street. Let them know where they are. Barracks Road. Barracks Road. Then we've got the hydraulic one, which is the one that will be closing. And then we've got the one in Rio Hill Shopping Center. Right.

So really they aren't that far apart. I could understand if if someone was determined to shop at Kroger, going the extra distance might be an irritation, although they don't have very far to go. On the other hand, you've got Whole Foods right across the street from the one. Ah, I need to jump in here. as a man who's not doing grocery store Grocery shopping for a family which you are not and frankly speaking I am NOT either my better half is doing the grocery shopping for our family But to compare and contrast our offer as a comparison point Whole Foods and Kroger is just not realistic That's fair. Hey, I shop at the food line

Finish your thoughts? It's a shame that it's closing. As you and I have talked, you've made the good point that despite the fact that we're being told that the employees at this Kroger will be moved to other locations. Nobody that we know of is immediately getting fired. How do you integrate an entire store's worth of employees into stores that are already running apparently without problems. That's the real story. The real story of Kroger on hydraulic closing in August is the loss of jobs that are frontline blue collar jobs

in a community, Charlottesville and Amarillo County specifically, that are losing frontline hourly blue-collar jobs at an aggressive clip at an aggressive clip and I was having a conversation through Facebook Messenger over the weekend with someone who asked to remain anonymous and This particular gentleman who asked for discretion highlighted the success he has

had professionally and as a result his family. But he is also highlighted as a leader at his respective firm with a number of blue collar, frontline, and hourly employees working for him, he's extremely mindful of what it's like for his team and the community as a whole, frontline, hourly, blue collar people and jobs and what's happening to them and with them in Charlottesville and Almar County. And some of the collateral damage that comes with losing these type of jobs is the businesses that rely on this socio-economic demographic as a customer base is also being eviscerated. Tubby's restaurant is a perfect example. We are running out of time. You have what, one, two, three, four days left

to eat at Tubby's restaurant before an auction, ladies and gentlemen, where the equipment, the furniture, fixtures, and equipment will be auctioned for pennies on the dollar. So let's talk the true impact. Legacy Media not covering this. The true impact of Kroger closing. For the parent company, the corporation to say, we want to close this store

and also say this store is making money and also say the employees at this store will be funneled into other jobs. There's a lot of lip service there. I have no doubt the Kroger on Hydraulic was making money. I would bet you that money is peanuts, because grocery store profits are just that, peanuts. So C-suite says, let's close this location, and let's hope and cross our fingers that Rio Hill and Barracks Road will capture the customer base because they're loyal

to the Kroger brand. They also have done a market analysis and realize in that stretch of Route 29 that the Kroger customer is not going to shop at Whole Foods. The Kroger customer is not going to shop at Harris Teeter. So they're thinking that Kroger customer may funnel to Rio Hill and may funnel to Barracks Road. And that very well could be. The reality is these jobs that are lost at Hydraulic, they say will transition to other Kroger grocery stores,

that's BS. Why would you hire more people at Barracks Road and Rio Hill when those grocery stores are already operating efficiently? Why would you add more bloat to the payroll? You won't. It's called lip service for a press release. So we literally have watched over the weekend a grocery store announce it's closing,

and how many people work there? I don't have an exact number. Maybe 100, maybe 150. When you consider round the clock staffing, maybe 200. You just watched 100 to 200 jobs get removed from the Charlottesville and Alamaro County ecosystem. And that's happening at a time where frontline jobs and hourly jobs and blue collar jobs

are absolutely being eviscerated from the ecosystem. And it's not just the gentrification of a community from a job market standpoint, from a look and feel standpoint, it impacts the businesses that rely on this clientele. Think about some of the businesses that have chosen to close their doors willingly or close their doors unwillingly that are in the blue collar space. Mooses by the Creek, I understand that they've opened another location.

And Boy Tavern, I understand that. But Mooses by the Creek, the diner, it's customer base, certainly blue collar. Tubby's, it's customer base, without question, blue collar. Blue Moon Diner, it's customer base, a certain portion of it, without question, blue diner, blue collar. Yeah.

So when you start taking these jobs out of Charlottesville and Elmora County, it's not just changing the look and feel of household income, median family household income, now 125,800 according to HUD. It does not change the look and feel by the people you see walking up and down Preston Avenue, the Downtown Mall, West Main Street, the UVA corner, Route 29, but it also has an impact on the businesses that are trying to survive here locally. Those jobs will not be repositioned at other Kroger stores.

They're just going to end up going away. And that's a significant impact on the community. Comments are coming in. Then you offer your thoughts, Judah Wickauer. Carol Thorpe, the queen of Jack Jewett, her photo on screen. She says, my family will miss the drive-through pharmacy, which is only a feature of this particular Kroger. Yeah. Lonnie Murray says this.

Lonnie Murray is a smart man. Carol Thorpe, smart lady. I'm going to get to Lonnie's comments in a matter of moments. What are your thoughts, viewers and listeners, on this Kroger closing? The significance of this story is much further than customers having to drive a little bit further for their bread, their milk, their beer and their groceries. Lonnie says, his photo on screen, I could be wrong but I seem to recall that Kroger was the location of the old drive-in movie theater. It was an awkward location but could be a really good development opportunity. Not a large of redevelopal spaces in Charlottesville. Apparently there is a whole Facebook page dedicated to the Ridge Drive-In

Theater and he shares the link to that Facebook page in the comment section of my Facebook page, Jerry Miller. I would love that. What's that? I would love that. A drive-in movie theater? Yeah. I would love a drive-in movie theater but the likelihood of a drive-in movie theater being a viable business is just absurd in today's standards. A drive-in movie theater with rent that expensive? Drive-in movie theaters are off the beaten path. Like fork union. I'm not saying that would be the best space for it. Right in the middle of a city. You're right, they're usually off the beaten path. It helps not to have all the glow of city lights.

And the noise. Distracted. Of Route 29. I don't think that's as big of a problem, but yeah, I'd love to see a drive-in movie theater, especially out in, up by Zion's crossroads. Vanessa Parke has this comment, her photo on screen. Will the gas at that location close down as well? I wonder what the impact it will have on the ABC store at Kroger. Great

questions. I expect the gas to be closed at that location with Kroger. That may be the end of that ABC store as well. And I think it's going to completely crush the ABC store there that relies on the trickle over traffic of the grocery. And I'm going to tell you right now, if you try to shop at the ABC store behind Kava, across from Barricks Road shopping center, kitty corner to Barracks Road shopping center, that ABC store, it is an absolute nightmare getting in and out of that parking lot. An absolute nightmare. There was a time where the ABC store was next to

Kroger at Barracks Road and it was a shopper's dream. You had the grocery and the ABC store right next to it, easy, peasy, Sunday breezy. That's not the case anymore. Jason Howard, he knows this business inside and out. He says Kroger's union, similar contract to when I was with Safeway. They have to offer transfer to local stores of the same chain. And any layoffs have to occur in order of seniority. They can't get rid of the highest paid, the lowest seniority get rid of first. Hear what he said? This is a guy that knows this business inside and out. Kroger is union. Similar contract to when I was with Safeway Grocery. He says they have to offer transfer

to local stores in the same chain and any layoffs have to occur in order of seniority. They can't get rid of the highest paid, the lowest seniority gets out terminated first. These are the blue collar jobs. The blue collar jobs, folks. Jason Howard also says the Albertsons and Kroger merger not going through was something of a surprise to both chains management. Now there is a lawsuit. But Kroger Harris Teeter is moving ahead with the consolidation plans they already had. Our Kroger closing is one of 60 closing. At least four Harris Teeters in Virginia are closing as well.

They are trimming stores they don't need to keep their market share. They have been compiling these lists since before the merger. It will be a huge culling of the herd. This is a man who works in this business and Jason Howard. I also want to emphasize this for the viewers and listeners. Folks that cling to the pipe dream that a grocery store can make it in Fifeville on Cherry Avenue, have even more empirical data that it's just a hope. You have Reed's Grocery who's been in business for generations that said we can't make this business model work anymore. And we have a brand, we have a better footprint, we have institutional knowledge. You got Kroger that's throwing in the towel and saying, customers drive to our store at Rio Hill or Barracks Road, but we're shutting this one down.

The grocery business is brutal. And as the consumer becomes more digitally centric, shop online centric, groceries delivered to our doorstep centric, having a big box with obscene overhead in a class A footprint, rental footprint is just a recipe of dinosaur, of T-Rex. It's a T-Rex recipe. The grocery business is going to be eventually, it's going to have to go the way of like streaming movies. It's going to have to adapt. It's no longer going to have, no longer going to be able to afford to be 30, 40, 50,000, 100,000 square feet of grocery space in a class A

rent district with 250 parking spaces in front of it and obscene overhead. It needs to evolve and will eventually evolve into a grocery store that's in a class C rent district or lower that's very tidy and efficient with its space where groceries are whisked or delivered to people's cars in front of the store or delivered to their doorsteps at their homes. It's sad to say but it's a reality. Another one that's going to go this way, CVS and Walgreens and Rite Aid. Have you guys noticed in Charlestown and Almaro and Central Virginia, the CVSs and the Rite Aids

and the Walgreens closing left and right around this town? Take it a step further. Have you walked into it, Judah, you've walked into a CVS, aid or right aid lately? Yeah, CVS. There's barely any staff on the floor. I mean, do they really need much staff? The stores are in absolute disarray.

There was at one time the shopping experience at CVS was an elevated, clean, sophisticated, elegant, enjoyable shopping experience. Now it's far from it. The drug store business needs to also go the way of digital or streaming or it's screwed. Mark Cuban with what he's doing with his pharmaceutical business, cost plus drugs delivered to your house. I have a colonoscopy coming up in July. Any man or woman, make sure you get your colonoscopies done. Just a PSA. Just a check for me. That time of my life to do it. It's delivered to me. The nasty formula you have to take beforehand where at one time we went to to do it. It's delivered to me, the nasty formula you have to take beforehand, where at one time we went to pick it up.

It's delivered to our door. This whole front line, hourly retail is, especially in grocery, has significant headwinds. Judah, jump in, comments, put them in the feed, I'll relay them live on air. I don't have much to say about it, except I think it's a shame. I feel like we're foregoing our connection to community for-

100%. For profits. I mean I don't mean to bring it back to profits over people but that's definitely happening though but that is happening all across the country and and frontline workers are the ones that get hurt the worst. Jason Noble who works in this business, he's in this business, or excuse me, I apologize, not Jason Noble, Jason Howard who works in this business, retail, frontline, grocery, I believe he's at Costco now, says Walgreens was just bought by Sycamore. They have plans to

close over 1,000 locations. No buyout at CVS but they have plans to close hundreds of locations this year. As you've been talking about, Jerry, it's been in the news for the last year or so. Deep Throat says this, his photo on screen, pretty ironic that people are hyping or championing or recruiting a grocery store on Cherry Avenue when a grocery store run by a deep-pocketed conglomerate on a busy transportation corridor cannot make it work. He also says I wonder if that Kroger site could become housing. I wish that the new zoning ordinance had done more to encourage brownfield commercial

to residential conversion. He also says, like Jason Howard just said, right aid is in bankruptcy protection, a so-called chapter 22, i.e. two chapter 11s in close succession. Viewers and listeners, if you're watching this program now, I want you to think about the challenge ahead for Charlottesville and Alamaro County. Listen to this, Judah.

The Kmart Gold's Gym by Whole Foods, Corrin Capshaw and Riverbend Development have that. They're trying to convert this into housing across from Stonefield. That Kmart Gold's gym, Little Caesars area has been vacant for what? Five to ten years? Yeah. A decade? A long time. The Kroger with that massive parking lot and the gas tanks, how long is that going to be vacant? Who wants to take over a grocery store? Think about that, ladies and gentlemen. Seminole Square, a unicorn, and we were a part of this, a unicorn was found with Seaville Smash, the pickle ball facility in the old Marshall's location. Dr. Daniel Halpert takes over the big lots for Coco's Adventure Center. What happens when the Rite-Aids and the Walgreens and the CVSs start closing?

You have Class A storefront all over Charlottesville and Alamaro County empty and vacant. And that's a natural segue into what we're going to talk next. Jason Nobles' photo on screen, please. He says they just remodeled the Rio Hill Kroger. I assume corporate Kroger did this strategically in order to accommodate the added hourly employees being moved. Perhaps. I am a trust but verify. And the trust but verify in me knows that the employees at Kroger, hydraulic, those guys ain't going to make it. And those jobs are going to be lost in this ecosystem

for Charlottesville and Almore. Lonnie Murray says, and yet we have local drug stores still doing well. I think it's all about service. I'm always willing to go to Parkway Pharmacy, our top notch because it's just a better experience. 100% a better experience for those two pharmacies. Where the CVS, the RiteAids, and the Walgreens are failing.

Vanessa Parkhill, freestanding CVS and the Walgreens across from 29 from there are both closed. CVS runs the Target Pharmacy though. She says Costco Pharmacy is awesome. For a few years I spent more time than I like to think about doing business there, but the staff made it a good experience at the Costco Pharmacy.

Here's the crazy thing. We are gonna be left, not just in Charlottesville and not just in Amar County, not in central Virginia, not in the Commonwealth, not on the East Coast, not in our country. But we're going to be left with like four or five retailers. And those four or five retailers are going to be what? Costco, who's got a brilliant membership model.

They make their money on membership. Have you ever purchased jewelry at Costco? Some of the best jewelry that you can find, you're not going to get custom pieces. Some of the cleanest diamonds you can find at price points that you will struggle to find anywhere else. They make their money on membership. The retailers we will have left, Costco, Walmart, Target, be, who are we missing? Amazon will eat the rest up if it can. Walmart is doing its best to fight Amazon with what it's offering digitally now.

Yeah, we'll see. And delivery now, and delivery with Walmart now. Walmart's become a tech play. It's become a digital app tech play. Is Target going to win this battle? It seems to me Target's going to get its lunch eaten by Walmart. Yeah, I don't know if... Costco's going to win the battle. I think Costco will survive. Costco going to win...

Who are we missing, folks? Jason, this is literally right up your alley, Jason Hauer. Unbelievable. And as this particular gentleman who heads a very large organization locally, who has a lot of employees at his disposal DM me over the weekend, it's the blue collar and the front line that suffer. Always. Next topic is a perfect segue into this. What's what put it out.

Let them know. Potbelly on West Main has officially closed its doors. On West Main street alone. Okay. Work with me and viewers and listeners help us out, okay? Devil's Backbone, the taproom. Why they open there, absurd. What, one of the biggest beer conglomerates in the world is it InBev, Anheuser-Busch InBev, whatever they're calling themselves now,

they own Devil's Backbone. Why they open a tap room in a location where skipping rock and hardy wood failed is beyond me. Fool me once. Was it shame on you? Fool me twice. Shame on me. This is the third time. They had all the money in the world and they're closing. They have a sign still on their door, close for a private event. It's been there for a week plus. We broke that news last week. Closed. Potbellies closed.

The whole storefronts at the standard, the apartment complex where Potbellies is located, none of those storefronts took off. Right. Because there's no parking. None of them took off. And because Charlottesville is not walkable. Vacant storefronts from the get. Potbellies was one of the few ones there, right?

Yeah, I mean, I don't even drive by there most of the time. Thank God our friends Johnny Arnalis and River Hawkins took over the world of beer spot with Mejicale. What's that, at the flats? I think so, yeah. Mehikale doing great. Before that, it was vacant for years with the world of beer. Years.

Blue Moon Diner, close. We have heard through sources, we broke that news last week, that there's a team of three entrepreneurs and restaurant folks, seasoned restaurant individuals that are looking to open a pub and restaurant at the Blue Moon Diner spot and are remodeling and actually trying to purchase the real estate there. But right now closed. I don't want to speak out of turn here, but the old Mel's Cafe is what? Deliciousness? What is it called? Yeah, Dillicious. Something like that. Okay.

I'm not throwing shade. I want nothing but success for Dillicious. Does not seem to be doing great, been open for months, and still has the banner, the paper banner, the vinyl banner as a sign, instead of transitioning into actual signage. One of the ways you can see how a business is doing is they're transitioning of outside branding elements away from vinyl banner into some kind of signage, stand alone signage. That hasn't happened yet. Black Howe Chop House, Daniel Kaufman, fantastic entrepreneur. Daniel Kaufman's Black Howe Chop House is an amazing restaurant. I hope Daniel's watching the program. But goodness gracious, Black Howe Chop House has been how many different restaurants, Judah? I've lost count.

Three Penny Cafe. Yep. Zinc. Mm-hmm. In my time of eating in Charlottesville, the first date I ever went on in Charlottesville while a student at the University of Virginia went on a date with a gal from a different college that we met over the summer while I was working in the summer. I took her out to dinner to where Black Cow Chop House is now. It used to be called the station. It was an American bistro called the station. Off the top of my head,

it's also been called ‑‑ it's also been Zinc, off the top of my head it's also been 3 penny cafe. It's now Black Howe Chop House. That's just off the top of my head. Daniel Kaufman owned the bottle house, the wine store, the wine and beer store next to Black Howe Chop House. he's since sold that business. So no longer the owners. Now you can say there have been some stalwarts and some flag bearers of West Main Street. You could say Continental Divide, absolutely. Been there forever.

Goodness gracious, Continental Divide has been there forever. What a success story. Maya restaurant, friend of the program, Peter Castiglione. Public Fish and Oyster, Daniel Kaufman's. But think about it. Before it was public, it was one meatball place. Our clients of our advertising agency, VMV brands behind us, we launched the brand for One Meatball Place. They were trying to do the meatball shop in Manhattan. Richard Zaken and Meg Zaken, Richard Zaken, one of the key lieutenants for Paul Manning and PBM Capital, did so well while

working for Paul Manning and PBM Capital Capital took the boatload of money he earned while working for Paul and got into the restaurant business with one meatball place. After a year said, goodness gracious, I want nothing to do with this business. The margins suck, stealing is happening left and right and dealing with labor is miserable. Then he sold one meatball place to Daniel Kaufman and it became public fish and oyster. What was the Hispanic restaurant that used to be at horse and hound the location? Now it's Marisco, El Barco, Marisco, something like that. What is it called? El Barco, Marisco, I can find it. That used to be called horse and hound. That's a pretty good place now. Horse

and hound. That's had turnover. West Maine. Smirna used to be ‑‑ Smirna has been around for a good while now. It used to be Bellis. It used to be Bella's. The West Main restaurant used to be awful Arthur's. West Main restaurant, tavern and grocery. I've got the old awful Arthur's chalk board. How about that? That's a little factoid. Thank you for letting us know that. No problem. What do you do with that chalkboard? Play Tic Tac Toe? Yeah. Tic Tac Toe, you know. So what's the viability of running a business, especially a food and beverage business on West Main Street? I think a lot

of that is dependent on parking. Look at the places that have stuck around. Smyrna, not great parking, but they've got parking. Marisco Saldarco. Smyrna has been around for a hop, skip and a jump. Come on. They've been around for a few years now. If you want to point to restaurants that have been around for a long time, you point to Continental Divide and Maya Restaurant. And I will directly point, counter your point by saying those are anomalies. Continental Divide is an anomaly and far from the norm. You know why? Tell me why. Why is Continental Divide an anomaly, a success story that's an anomaly and far from the norm? I would ‑‑ do they happen to own the ‑‑

Because it's a restaurant that is operating out of a tiny, tiny, tiny footprint. And they have a lease structure that is 25, 30 years old lease structure. So they have said we are going to sell Latin food, burritos and tacos where margin is high and margaritas where margin is high and we're going to do it in a really, really tiny footprint where our leasing overhead is low. It's also low tied to this historical lease that we're on. Maya restaurant, why is Peter Castiglione's Maya restaurant an anomaly as a success story? Because Peter owns the real estate. Peter Castiglione and Christian Kelly. Christian now owns Dooners. He was Peter's partner at Maya. They split. Christian now owns Dooners. Took it over when Wilson Richie passed. Christian is still a co-owner on the real estate with

Peter. They are paying themselves. Maya Restaurant is paying rent to their real estate company which owns Maya restaurant and the apartment next to it. Those are anomalies. Wild Wing Cafe has still not opened. Chad Ragland once owned it. Alan Kajine is the landlord of Wild Wing Cafe. It has a parking lot in front of it, Judah. And it can't open. There's a parking lot next to it. There's your parking argument. Works against it.

But if you don't have anything to sell, it doesn't matter if you have a parking lot. It had things to sell when it closed. John Blair's photo on screen. One serious issue for that portion of West Main Street, it was called Midtown at one time, is the old Sweet House property. I think once that property is developed, it might make West Main more viable. Right now it's a dead zone in that portion as Wild Wing Cafe across the street has also been closed for years. That portion of West Main needs to be reactivated. No doubt. Desperately needs to be reactivated because

it connects the corner to the UBA, the corner to the downtown mall. And now you have potbellies, the devil's backbone tap room, store, Blue Moon Diner, the vacant storefronts next to Potbelly's. You hope, what's it delish, what's it called? Delicious. You hope delicious makes it. You hope it does. We want all entrepreneurs to be successful. All vacant. On one stretch within a few blocks of each other. James Watson's photo on screen. What do you guys think could potentially turn the tire of all the local owned

restaurants and retail seemingly going out of business one after the other? It's crazy to think we've had more stores and family-owned restaurants 15 years ago. He's basically saying what do you think can turn this trend around? That's a tough one. Conan Owen, I'm getting to your comments in a matter of moments. What would turn this around? Is there a way to turn it around in Charlottesville? Anyone? Viewers and listeners? Do you have an answer on that one for us? We're asking for your help on answering that one. Anyone? How do you turn it around? You know what one of the most successful, Ginny who your comments coming in next. One of the most successful revenue by square foot

food and beverage businesses in Charlottesville city. Luce, that little pasta stand on the downtown mall. Two people run it. Have you been to Luce? I haven't been there. You should try it. Try people run it. Have you been to Luce? I haven't been there. You should try it. Try it this week. It's affordable. A takeout pasta window. Yeah. You order it, they make custom pasta, and you leave. And they crush it. I'm surprised we didn't have something like that sooner. They crush it.

I don't know, James. It's a great question. Jason Noble points out safety at West Main Street as a concern for him. Conan Owen, the owner of Sir Speedy says Orzo has been around for 20 years. Yeah, that's another

good one. I know Charles and Ken. They are friends of mine. They own Orzo. I've known them for two decades. Charles and Ken. Fantastic people. They run a great business. One of them as owners is in the restaurant all the time. All the time. Conan also highlights that Farm Bell Kitchen increased its food and beverage space on just two meals a day. I know the owner of Farm Bell Kitchen, friend of mine, I've known him for 25 years, Ryan Hubbard, fantastic entrepreneur, owns the Dinsmore Inn. Ryan Hubbard, also the owner of Red Hub Kitchen, the barbecue restaurant on, is that Temp Street? Ryan Hubbard is a savvy businessman. He's got a Masters in Business, I believe, from William & Mary or UVA.

Hubbard is a great guy, actively involved with his businesses along with his mother. Georgia Gilmer says it's parking, parking, parking, parking. That's the problem. Jason Howard says that area west main, it seems like a hard needle to thread to pay the rent and get enough customers with parking around there. It's been five years, no movement at all on Wild Wing Cafe space. He delivered beer and serviced the draft lines there from what I saw. It looked pretty well maintained. Why new tenants in all that time? Why new tenants? Why would someone want to rent that much square feet? If I was Alan Kajin, the owner of Wild Wing Cafe, I would chop it up into smaller spaces. Alan Kajin listens to this show, the bi-coastal attorney that owns much of the commercial property

in the city of Charlottesville, including where Commonwealth Sky Bar was, including the owner of the real estate of Rapture, including Wild Wing Cafe, the once partner of Gabe Silverman who's passed away. That's right where the train comes in in right? Wild Wing Cafe? Yeah. You'd think that would make a great little like multi multi retail spot like a bar a uh I don't know if you could have a uh no um what do you call it stuff that you have in the in the airport. No duty-free shops. But still, something like a gift shop, a bar. Based on a train?

I'm just talking about a place for someone to stop and like... How much traffic do you think is coming? I'm not trying to throw shade on you here. I'm saying exactly what you're saying. Break it up into multiple little spots so that you're not trying to sell a giant building for one business. You're not going to lease a giant building for one business. He's with Commonwealth Sky Bar Allen Kajin, massively renovated Commonwealth Sky Bar and he purchased Allen Kajin the furniture in some of the fixtures and equipment from Chaps Ice Cream. And he's now trying to lease Commonwealth Skybar, Alan Kajin, as fully furnished and

recently remodeled and renovated. He's asking $11,000 a month for that space. We have clients looking at that space now. $11,000 a month for Commonwealth Skybar. That's a huge nut to crack. That means your restaurant's got to do north of $2 million. Pretty much to come close to breaking even on top line number. Insane. Any other topics on that list, Judah Wichauer? All we've got left are blue color and working class businesses closing. But we've covered pretty much everything on here.

If we continue to lose 100 to 200 jobs at the Krogeron Hydraulic Judah, and if we continue to lose 50 jobs at the CVS over there, and 50 jobs at the Rite Aid over there, and 50 jobs at the Walgreens over there, if we continue to lose the beer making at Star Hill and the delivery at Star Hill because they've done a joint venture with Hardywood to brew their own beer to save some money at the Crozet brewery. If we continue to lose the tap room on West Main and the diner on West Main and the greasy spoon in Hogwaller. If we continue to lose the sandwich shop on East High Street, the pizzeria on East High Street where Domino's used to be, we continue to see these institutional brands close. It's not just memories we lose.

It's not just a homogenous community created. It's the businesses that rely on this customer base that will also domino effect close. And that is sad. And that's when you left with a community where four retailers have all the market share. And that's what's happening. Scott Smith's tomorrow? I'm going to straight up say to him, he's going to sit across from me.

I'm going to say, Scott Smith, damn, dude, you've got some balls running as a Republican in Alamara County. What are you doing here? I'm going to say that to him. I'm going to say, Scott, you got some balls running as a Republican in the Samuel Miller district in Alamara County.

Goodness gracious, what are you doing here? And see what his response is. Yeah. He's running for a seat in the board of supervisors. The only race that will head to a general election November vote. All the other ones deciding. I can't wait to hear what his strategy is,

how he expects to come out on top in an area like this? Well, I hope Scott Smith has a campaign strategy that is completely different than Dave Shreve's. Right? It's not a personal attack on Dave, but it is a, his campaign strategy and the Jack Jewett district against Sally Duncan was a strategy that left a lot to be desired. No doubt. and is left, so many in the community, not just disappointed, but appalled and angered. Scott Smith tomorrow, 1230. If you're looking for office space Charlestown-wise, let us know. We have some office space we can rent. Just DM me, text me, executive office space,

nimble hybrid space at price points that are affordable with us covering utilities. Judah Wickhauer's key contributor to the show, my name is Jerry Miller. A couple of programming notes for you before I get off air and I'll emphasize this as the week gets longer. I'm going to take some R&R time, some vacation time with the family.

We leave the 28th of June, Saturday, and we won't return until the 14th of July. So we have a full show, full slate of shows this week, Monday through Friday, and then my family and I heading to the beach Saturday the 28th Through Sunday the 13th and we returned back in the saddle on Monday, July 14th Get to spend time with the wife and the boys in the sand for a couple of weeks And I'm very much looking forward to it. It's well-earned vacation time

Judah wick our yours truly Jerry Miller. Thank you kindly for joining us. So long everybody...