The I Love CVille Show With Jerry Miller! - Loring Woodriff Joined Hillary L. Murray On "The Juicy Details"

Episode Date: February 21, 2024

Loring Woodriff, Founder of Loring Woodriff Real Estate Associates, joined Hillary L. Murray live on The Juicy Details! Follow The Juicy Details on iTunes Follow The Juicy Details on Spotify The Juicy Details airs live Wednesday from 2:15 pm – 3 pm on The I Love CVille Network. Watch and listen to The Juicy Details on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn, iTunes, Apple Podcast, YouTube, Spotify, Amazon Music, Audible and iLoveCVille.com.

Hey friends, I'm Hillary Murray. Welcome to the 10th episode of the Juicy Details. Today I'm really excited to have my friend and an inspiring woman leader, Lauren Woodruff, join us. Thank you. I'm excited to be here. Yes, Lauren is founder of Lauren Woodruff Real Estate here in Charlottesville, Virginia. Currently I have my house listed with her agency. So thank you, Lauren. Thank you. So to start, we always begin the Juicy Details podcast with a shot of some sort.

We've done Devil's Backbone Smashes. We've also done Lumi Juice is mainly what we start with. So this is Lumi's Gold Rush. There's a turmeric, lemon, ginger, pear, cayenne, and it's an instant energy infusion. Cheers. Cheers. Mmm. Whoo.

Is it good? Holy heat. Holy heat. I like that. Mmm. Delicious. Okay. You have the orange juice to maybe counteract the spice if you need it.

Well, Lori, thanks for joining us today. I'm thrilled to be here. Well, I want to learn everything about you. Oh, boy. Yeah, let's start at the very beginning. Tell us about Somerset, Virginia, which is Orange County, Virginia. It's about, what, an hour, not even? 30 minutes.

30 minutes north of Charlottesville. And that's where you were born and raised? Born and raised as was my father and his father on the same farm. It was a working cattle and corn farm. No frills but it really brought me really really close to nature. You know I got home from school and I went and got on my horse and took long rides every day with the dog in pursuit. And in a lot of ways, I wish I could recreate that childhood for my kids, but it's not going to happen with TikTok. But it was a good childhood.

So TikTok is stopping you from doing this? TikTok. That'd be good content. TikTok and my inability to curb my children's appetite for social media and what are these called cell phones? Those things we use our hands with. Yeah but my daughter does ride so she gets outside a little bit but it's a very different time now so for better and for worse so is the farm still working corn and cattle farm yes so my father is 86 years old and he's obviously retired but he's leased out the farm and um i still go out and visit him and take walks on the farm every weekend and um you know it's a

special place it's still very rural out there and my girls like to take walks out there too, so it's nice. And you make them a grilled chicken, right? Yes, I do. I cook my father a roast chicken once a week, and we sit down and have a meal, and then he keeps the leftovers to eat, to survive the week with. What's your secret to your roast chicken? Small chicken, 400 degrees, until there's no blood. And no sauce or anything? I use truffle salt, lots of truffle salt.

Truffle salt. Okay, so truffle salt roasted at 400 degrees until there's no more blood. That's like a really easy recipe. I think hopefully all of us can do that. Yes. That's great. And so from the farm, you came to Virginia, UVA. And what did you study at University of Virginia?

I studied art history. Art history with a minor in history. So not terribly diverse, but I enjoyed it. But then I wanted to live in New York City. And so I was in a little bit of a conundrum. I wanted to be able to live in New York City. And so I was in a little bit of a conundrum. I wanted to be able to live in New York City and I was not going to be able to borrow any money from my parents and I needed to get a job. And I wanted to get a job where I made decent money. So I had very good grades and I was very determined. And my fourth year, I decided decided despite my art history background that I was going to

raid the School of Commerce where students were being interviewed by big investment banks in New York and of course they had won the right to have these interviews and I put on a suit and I would wait until the door opened and one interviewee left and I literally would stick my foot through the door and say hi do you have a minute to talk I don't have a scheduled interview with you but I think I have something important to say you might want to consider me and I just sort of and every single person I did this with let me in the door and I sat down and I said look I have a background, my background is in totally in liberal arts I've never taken

finance however I'm extremely driven I have great grades I'm a workaholic and I really think it's good to think out of the box and my cheesy line which worked was the greater the risk the the greater the potential payoff. And I got four interviews in New York at four different banks, and then I ended up just one offer from a bank called Donaldson, Lufkin, and Genrette. But I was super excited. Off to New York I went, not knowing what in the world a financial model was. But it was a good experience.

I failed. I failed miserably. it was a good experience. I failed. I failed miserably. I was a terrible, terrible investment banker. What was your hardest thing that you failed miserably? How long were you even there? Six months, a year, two years? Talk to us about what was the first thing where you were like, holy guacamole, I'm at so low here. I have no idea what I'm doing. So it was a

two-year program. That was to be the commitment. And I was with a class of 30 other analysts, all of whom had finance degrees or double finance econ majors. And the tire hit the road when I was assigned my first deal to do a financial model on, and I didn't have a clue how to do anything. I leaned heavily on my senior associate, but none of the numbers made sense. It was completely intangible to me. I mean, I got good grades in math, but I could not, for the life of me, figure out how to do this modeling, build models, projection models.

And I realized I was not cut out for something that I didn't have an inherent interest in, which I never did. I just wanted to make good money. You were just there for the money. I was just there for the money. What did they pay in the 90s in investment banking in New York? So this was 1994. I had a $60,000 base salary. In 1994?

Yes. I mean Lehman Brothers paid that in 2008. DLJ was a very lucrative investment bank. It was also a sweatshop. Sorry, I'm not supposed to name names. But everyone knew that. That was the culture of investment bank. It was also a sweatshop. Sorry I'm not supposed to name names but everyone knew that that was the culture of investment banking. And that was the other thing as I'd gotten this job to make lots of money because I wanted to spend time in New York City but in reality I was sleeping under my desk at the office and you know I had no downtime, none whatsoever. I

was eating dinner every night at the office. I was frequently in the office until midnight. And, yes, I did sleep under my desk looking down at the lights of the Brooklyn Bridge on several occasions. Still couldn't do financial modeling, but I tried. I really tried. That's a great story. So what kind of deals? Were you set to a specific class? Like, as in, you know, did you study consumer products? What kind of deals were you working set to a specific class? Like, did you study consumer products?

What kind of deals were you working on? Was there a generalist? The deal that I remember the most was for a company, an insurance company called Reliance. Oh, yeah. That's a big one. But I can, again, it was all so intangible to me. I can barely, it was just a fog of confusion for me. So I think one of the fogs of confusion might be attributed to the busyness

and the sweatshop mentality, which is not a great name to label it. However, do you want to talk about the email now or do you want to talk about a little bit of something else before that? No, I would love to. So Lauren shared that when she was an analyst, she received this email and this was your whole analyst class, correct? Yes I was it was so I had started working there the summer of 90 sorry the summer of 93 and by the spring of 94 I knew I was had made a big big error but I still was trying to make it because of the nice salary and then I think it was a Friday night and in an email popped up in my inbox, as well as all my fellow analysts, and it was from our managing, sort of our administrative managing director, so who is in charge of getting analysts put on different deals. And the title of that email was Busy and Busy Defined. busy and busy defined. And keep in mind, this is 1994. Email's just starting to be used. And it's

just the power it has or the damage it can do is just not really, people don't really get how dangerous it can be. So Hillary, I don't know if you want to read the email I received. Sure, yes, I'll read it. And the subject is too busy and busy defined. And too busy is in quotes. And busy is in quotes. And the entire email is all capital letters. So maybe that was just unsure how to write an email. Or intentional. But it's at 8.32 p.m. I'm uncertain what day of the week this is.

It's a Friday, you said. I believe it was a Friday. So Friday at 8.32 p.m. And it says, it has come to my attention largely because of my inability to staff deals that everyone claims to be, quote, too busy. However, everyone has his or her own definition of, quotes, too busy, which can cause inequities in assignments. The one true definition of too busy is being physically unable and having no more time to do more work, not to take on one more deal. Let's

define busy. You are busy if you are working each weekday at least 16 hours and at least 16 hours on the weekend. These are working hours, not traveling, gabbing, or eating time. If these are not your hours at the office, you have the capacity to take on more work. Bed checks, beepers, sign-in sheets, etc. are not part of our culture. Fairness and equitable treatment are part of our fabric, and if someone is not pulling as hard on their or as hard as our hardest worker, then they are, pardon the expression, freeloading. Since none of you are held accountable for revenues,

the issue comes down to fairness of the distribution of work. How did that make you feel? So that actually was a super-duper clarifying email for me because I realized, you know, this is just not me. I'm not going to work these hours, but I'm also not going to beat myself up about it. So Monday morning, I knocked on the managing director's door and I said, I keep wanting to use his name, but I'm not going to. I said to so-and-so, you know, I got your email on Friday and I thought about it over the weekend and he almost cut me off. Wait, and you didn't work all weekend, I hope. I'm sure I did.

But it was almost as if he cut me off. I said, I think this email helped me realize that I'm not cut out for investment banking. But what was so interesting is he immediately said, oh, I completely understand, Lauren. You will keep your salary. You will be paid a bonus. And you will keep your office and your assistant while you look for another job or profession. And I was totally taken aback.

Whoa. So he was trying to cover his butt because he realized what he sent was, like, horrendous. Well, but I didn't go in with that attitude. I was just like, I'm not cut out for this. But he had obviously caught a lot of H-E-L-L all weekend, and he was running scared. But I still have that email framed in my office today. But no regrets. I'm glad I tried investment banking. It was important to fail because it made me realize I have to do something that I intrinsically have a passion for.

Well, I wouldn't say you failed. You were totally determined to get a job there. You went there. You conquered the job. You just were not necessarily prepared adequately. I mean, you could have probably learned how to do a financial model, but if you had never done it, it doesn't seem like the infrastructure was in place to help you learn how to do it. It was not. So you never know. Maybe you're kind of doing investment banking with finance, figuring out houses all the time.

Well, I was going to say I love real estate math. It's totally tangible to me. I love crunching numbers when I'm preparing an opinion of value, but that is so different and less esoteric, at least in my mind, versus financial modeling for investment banking deals so so so you have this epiphany and this email kind of I mean it's not maybe it's not even that harsh right it's more of just like you should be working your life away at the office at least 16 hours a day and

you then see this and you're kind of like, I'm going to not do this anymore. And then what did you decide next? So you didn't just go straight into real estate. I did not. I still wanted to be in New York. I had a huge love affair with New York. I tried to get a job in what's considered...

What do you love about New York? Tell us everything. Just the grit. Everybody's out there trying to make a go of it. What do you love about New York? Tell us everything. Just the grit. Everybody's out there trying to make a go of it. You're constantly interacting with people from all worlds. Of course, there's all kinds of glamour, but I love just walking down by the Holland Tunnel. I take walks, which includes walking by the Holland Tunnel and through Penn Station. I love seeing humanity in all of its forms, and there's no place like New York

to give you that range of humanity. Do you see any cows when you're walking through? No cows. No cows. A little different than Somerset, Virginia. Yeah. But so I quit. I tried to get a job in what was considered

the sexier side of finance, which was sales and trading. I was making the same mistake again. So then I ultimately, my headhunter suggested a job in advertising, and it was for the Neutrogena account. And I thought, well, I'll give that a shot. And it happened to be at the same ad agency that also represented all of Polo Ralph Lauren's business. And I eventually, within a year, ended up on the Polo Ralph Lauren account. And I loved my work. I loved getting to work. I didn't mind

staying late. It was, you know, in fashion, very young people can reach pretty senior levels. So within two years, after two years, I was meeting with Ralph Lauren on a daily basis. Really quickly, before you go down that road, how long did you keep getting paid by DLJ, Investment Bank? DBJ, what is it? DLJ. DLJ, yeah. How long were you being paid? I don't know if someone realized that you were still being paid. I was paid for six months before this managing director reached out to me,

because I wasn't coming into the office, even though my desk was still there. And he said, Loring, how are you doing? And I said, oh, I'm great. I've actually got a job. I'm all set. And so he's like, is it okay if we stop paying you? I said, yes, it's okay. And meanwhile, he had also given me a bonus at the end of the year. So it was, it was,

it was quite a, quite a nice free ride I got. Well, and then, so when you, what was the pay cut when you go from investment banking to advertising? Great point. So the base salary was 60K at DLJ but there was a promise of double or three times that bonuses and my starting salary in advertising was 30,000 no no promise of any kind of a bonus but the work was way more rewarding to you yeah so I mean it's generally true in New York the higher the the higher the glamour quotient the lower the pay the higher the glamour quotient, the lower the pay. The higher the glamour, the lower the pay. That's just kind of how it is. And fashion is like ground zero for people not being paid very well, but they get lots of glamorous meals and glamorous clothing. Glamorous access. Yes. All right. So you're back here. You've been working on the Ralph

Rund account for two years. And now are you working for Ralph Lauren, the company at all, or are you just working at that agency? I never worked for Polo Ralph Lauren. I always worked for his agency called Carlson and Partners. My boss worked with him from the very first day he started to do advertising. And they remained partners until she died of cancer about 15 years ago. I mean, my company, my agency, I don't know if you remember all those fabulous campaigns for Ralph Lauren in the 80s, late 80s with, like, it looked like they'd gone to Russia or England and, you know, polo matches. Anyway, it was very much lifestyle.

Everything's beautiful. Their old ads, I mean, I haven't seen many other new ads, but everything was like beautiful and glorious. Yeah, very atmospheric. Awesome. So two years you're working that. You're going to daily meetings with Ralph Lauren. What is that like? What was he like?

And what was the culture like? So many questions. Yeah, so we would meet with Ralph two or three nights a week to get advertising campaigns approved. And there were probably 10, anywhere from 8 to 15 people in the room. It was a combination of people from the ad agency, art directors, creative directors, and then sort of Ralph's loyal team of undefined people who he trusted. And yeah, it was probably a year later I decided to do something and that is I stopped, I have a birthmark on my face and I decided to stop wearing makeup, to stop covering it up. And the very first ad agency, or excuse me, advertising

meeting I had with Ralph, and believe me, he never paid me any attention. But I walked in the room, and I sat down, and before the meeting started, he said, what happened? And I said, what do you mean? He said, what's that on your face? And I remember that I wasn't wearing makeup. And I said, oh, that's a birthmark. And he said, and he got up out of his chair and he came over and he took my jaw in his hands and said, no, that's a look. So here's my birthmark. But it was an amazing affirmation of just how visual Ralph Lauren is. You know, there's 15 people in the room, and I don't wear makeup on this, and he notices it immediately.

Yeah. It was intense. I mean, that just goes to show his eye, but you're beautiful, so he probably noticed it right away. It was like, or maybe he thought someone hurt you and was ready to, like, bring out the guards for you. I don't know, but it was, I mean but it was intense for me. It was cool. It was a look, and there you were.

I don't need any more makeup on my birthmark. You got validation from Ralph Loren that you were a look. Okay. That everyone should follow the look. People put a lot of eyeshadow on their eyes and cover their eyes, but it's definitely a cool look.

You own it well. Thank you. Okay, so from how long did you work for Ralph Lauren so I worked for Ralph Lauren for seven years oh wow and it's Lauren not Lauren sorry I felt I felt French but that's not even his real name it's um it's Ralph Lifshitz yes yeah oh shits I can't even say that one right either I failed phonics it was not my best subject so you worked seven years and then so you're like in your late 20s yes I mean I think I was 27 28 and as glamorous and fun as the work was it sort of felt repetitive it was basically every twice a year you the fashion industry is at least this is how I perceived it, creates new looks, creates new designs to convince people that they need to go out and buy a whole new set of clothing. And it was, for me, it was going to glamorous photo shoots and, you know, having these models dress up and do these pretty ads.

It was just the cycle was, how do we get women to keep buying more clothing? We changed the style. And it just became a little repetitive for me. And I started thinking that I might want to get back to Charlottesville. And between 1993 and 2001, Charlottesville evolved a lot. It was a fairly sleepy college town when I left. But since then, the downtown mall had come to life. There were just finally some good restaurants, much more of a music culture. Dave Matthews was starting to take off. It was a really exciting time in Charlottesville. People might know who he is. Sorry? I said maybe some people know who Dave Matthews is. Sorry, Dave Matthews is a rock star

who is originally from Charlottesville. Yeah, but I was just saying, like, pretty famous. So that's what happened. Okay, so it transformed and you were kind of just... I mean, I would say finance gets repetitive too, right? So the glamorous jobs of sales and trading was something

that I did when I first got out of school and i'm kind of like to say a monkey can do it is not not nice but at the end of the day it ends up being something that is repetitive where it's kind of the same thing the same transactions the same you know maybe there's a market movement or maybe there's something exciting that happens like a company goes bankrupt or someone is getting bought and then that changed the chair price but overall the motions and mechanics are the same and I could see how selling high-end fashion to people is kind of the same it's probably on a cycle after seven years you probably sell some cyclicality to it yes I did see some cyclicality so the Charlotte's will change

and you had open eyes and you decided to come here. Well, but again, I said, I got to make money. What am I going to do? So the last six months that I was still working for Ralph Lauren's ad agency, I went ahead and got my real estate license. Why real estate? Like what made you be excited about that? You know, I'm not sure I remember, except I've always liked houses.

And you needed to make money. And you needed to make money. And I needed to make money, and that can be very lucrative. And so my last six months in New York, I was actually flying down to Charlottesville once a week, which seems crazy, to take in-person real estate classes. And then I think they were on a Thursday night, and then I would spend the next three days at home. And my ad agency you see, my boss was incredibly supportive, which kind of surprises me in retrospect. But anyway, I got my license and gave my notice and moved back here. It was nine months before 9-11. So it was a great time in New York, but I was ready to slow down a little bit.

So you moved back nine months before 9-11 happened, so you fortunately were not in the city when 9-11 happened. That's right. Okay, well, that's good. And so that was like the most expensive real estate cost probably anyone's ever taken. Yes, it's crazy. I guess air flights, though, were a lot more casual back then than they are now. I think sometimes I would take what was called the Trump shuttle from LaGuardia to D.C.,

and then my father would pick me up in D.C. Which was the Trump shuttle? It was called the Trump shuttle, and it ran on the hour between D.C. and New York, and it was owned by Trump. And I think that was like under $100, And you could just basically walk up and get on, you didn't have to pre buy tickets. But even tickets to Charlottesville were under $200 back then. And it was direct, it was on a prop plane. And so there's a there's a flight, was it an airline? It wasn't the Trump airline. I think it was called Piedmont, but I'm not

100% certain. Well, it's Piedmont Airways. American Airlines operated by Piedmont. There we go. Interesting. So they're still here. Going strong. Not sponsored by Piedmont Airlines, but here at Scattered Adventures and the Juicy Details podcast, we love some airline tickets. That's right. Yes, we're going on vacation, right?

Okay, so then you came back and you started taking your real estate classes. And did you start working for another firm or just dive into joining your own? So I worked for a company called Stevens & Company which is still very much going strong today. It was a type, the market in Charlottesville, the real estate market in Charlottesville in the early 2000s was going like this. It was

going way up, much like it is today. Much like today, there was not enough inventory. You had, and you know. Finding out about listings was like a blood sport. Information was power. And I realized at a small boutique firm like Stevens & Company, I wasn't hooked into a pipeline of hearing about listings before they came on the market. So I wasn't giving my clients a lot of added value because, especially back then, brokers were selling a lot of properties themselves. They were never exposed. They just found a buyer themselves privately. So I moved to McLean Faulkner, which was a bigger firm. And the market continued to be strong, but I had access to a lot more what we call pocket

listings today. I was learning about listings before they came on the market. And so I really got a toehold at McLean Faulkner. And then in 2008, just on the eve of the Great Recession, I went out on my own, which would seem to have been terrible timing, but actually, whereas a lot of markets went down, I feel like Charlottesville went from this to this. And I really haven't been in a real estate market in Charlottesville in which it's gone like this. Kind of worst case, except in the

upper, upper market, the values can flatline here. So I went out on my own in 08. I had one assistant and myself. And I think a year later, my first agent was Karen Ball, a fabulous local agent. She sold my first house in Charlottesville. There we go. She was Rookie of the Year when it was just the two of us. And from there, I partnered with Lindsay Milby and Christine Lyle, who has moved away. But anyway, the three of us joined forces in 2012. I sold my little shop front on Water Street and bought the office on the corner of Park and High Street. And we've grown since then.

But we always want to stay boutique scale. So we cap the agent count at 30, no more than 30. And that's worked well. We're not looking to franchise out. We want to stay local. And so right now, Loring is a real estate company, just for numbers. You guys sold between $400 million to $500 million last year worth of homes, of inventory. We do that.

That's what we do every year. In 2022, we sold almost $480 million. But last year, as inventories have continued to go down, I think we sold more like $430. So, strong. So, inventory availability doesn't just affect us people trying to buy. It affects people that this is their livelihood buying. Yes. This is arguably a scary market. Certainly a sobering market for real estate

agents because I for example have 20 really good buyers and for every, for my 20 really good buyers, there's going to be, I might have four, four buyers for the same property. So if I've got four buyers for when one listing comes on the market, that's a good listing. That means there's a, there's another 40 or 25 from other agents. So we're all fighting in a feeding frenzy or it's a blood sport to try and get our buyers these, these properties today. It's, it's tough. So how do you go and find like listings or properties for people? How do I find them? Like, for instance, like if, if someone,

I see you, you're, Lauren's very active on Instagram, Lauren Woodruff, you can find her and follow her and see what she does. And she's getting all these really great listings and fabulous homes and farms and just great things out there. So would you attribute that to your network? Would you attribute that to growing up in Orange County? Honestly, I got my toehold in the very beginning by just relentlessly following up with people. Maybe I would meet somebody at a cocktail party and say,

oh, you're thinking about buying a house? Do you mind if I just email you with potential properties? You don't even have to respond. But if something catches your eye, let me know, and I'll get you in. And that built my business. I think my first year in real estate, I sold like 13 houses, and I made $60K. But those people who worked with me had good experiences, so then they referred. So my referral network grew.

And as I sort of aged into the business or aged up, the transaction size aged up. So it's really a referral business, very much so. But certainly to market a property effectively, you're doing advertising and direct mail. But as far as, you know, getting listings, it's really kind of based on your track record. So what's your hit on direct mail these days? Do you know? I don't know. Does it work? Or is direct mail now considered also like an email? So I actually think direct mail 10 years ago, pre-pandemic or even earlier, was a total waste. But now that we get so much email marketing and social media,

it's almost, to me, it's almost become interesting. Again, if it's a nice, you know, professionally designed, high qualityquality direct mail piece, I think people actually look at it. So I'm a believer in it now. I would agree as someone who's a layperson that gets emails versus I like to look at tangible objects I can hold. It makes a big difference and you can see things. I think the problem with some of the houses you're selling

is that they're moving so quickly that by the time the direct mail comes, it's already been gone. That's true. Unless you're preparing it earlier. So what's going to be the hardest lesson starting your own business that you've learned? Gosh, the hardest lessons. I don't, I mean, I feel like I've been very lucky. I've, I've, my timing and when I got in the business was fortunate. And also I've had the pleasure and privilege of working with really, really talented fellow agents. And I feel like my team at Loring Woodruff is we are extremely collaborative. And I think collaboration in this business is really, really empowering.

And it only helps your clients. So I'm trying to think of struggles. I I mean I'm certainly sure I've had struggles but it's been it's been pretty fun well that's good I mean it's supposed to be maybe your only struggle was just not wanting to work 16 hour days not wanting to work 16 hour days it's something I didn't understand I was doing exactly yes I think you know you can be a farmer and working 16 hour days easily you know and you can be loving your job in real estate, and I'm sure you've put in 16, 20-hour days doing that. Yeah, I'm sure. Yeah, and I certainly would, in the advertising days,

if my day started at 9, it frequently ended at 9 p.m. because our meetings with Ralph would go very late, but I loved every minute of it. So there you go. So that was a 12-hour day easily, and then you probably go out after that. Oh, yeah. That's what you do in New York. That's what you do in your 20s. Yes, yes, exactly. I guess in Charlottesville, too, you can do that. That's awesome.

So, okay, so now it's been how many years? 2012, so 13 years? 13 years. Well, so I went out on my own in 08. Okay, okay. So it's been more than 15 years since I started my own company. That's amazing. And now you're the second largest in this part of Virginia.

We are. We are, and we handle the vast majority of the million-plus properties. So we're the number one in that realm, but we don't handle a lot, a ton of new construction. We handle custom new construction and more specialized, but we don't handle huge, huge, dare I say, cookie-cutter new construction, just dozens and dozens and dozens of townhomes, and we tend to do a little higher-end custom product. So if you want anything in this central Virginia market that is unique, bespoke, historic, well done. Distinctive. Distinctive.

Charismatic, high fashion, you go to Loring. But that can be an amazing two-bedroom cottage on Cameron Lane or, you know, a totally custom condominium at White Gables. I mean, it really ranges, but yeah, we definitely, if you had to pin us down, new construction versus existing, we err on the existing properties. And so talk to us about your daughters. Like with your, as a woman who went through all of these things of investment banking, you like definitely were assertive and you went and got it and you got this dream job and then you realized quickly it was definitely not your dream job and then you did get your dream job and now you've created your dream job what's your advice to your girls my advice to my girls is listen to your passion not to your pocketbook the money will come it's really I mean

if I had tried to continue in finance, I would have just been so miserable. But, you know, when I started the advertising job, my salary was $30,000. And when I left seven years later, it was closer to $150,000, which was plenty of money for being in your 20s and you're not in finance. So for me, that was great money, and I love my job. So that would be my advice. Work hard. Don't take anything for granted, but pursue your passion. There you go.

Pursue what you're naturally passionate about. Well, that's great advice. I think that pertains to everybody that's listening to you, not just your girls, but I think that I know they're special to you, so I figured that was a good way to frame it, and that was great advice. And let's talk we're going to pivot quickly just because this episode is sponsored by scouted adventures yes your travel if you guys need to go anywhere we can help you out yes but let's talk about um trips that you've been on that you loved and what's on your bucket list um let's see what trips I love I've loved loved, I hate to say the obvious, but I love Italy. I love

the Amalfi Coast was amazing. Rome is my favorite city in the world. Sorry, New York. I love New York, but Rome is otherworldly. I went to Thailand and I was actually, oddly, I was only in Bangkok, but again, for the same reasons I love that gritty, all-humanity thing about New York, I loved walking around Bangkok. So that was really a big memory. And I guess one other trip that I really enjoyed was a friend got married in Argentina, in the Patagonia of Argentina. And it was quite the five-day wedding celebration.

And I was hiking during the day and eating dinner at 10 p.m. and having lots of fun at night and then eating these amazing steak meals. I'll never forget the first night I was in the Patagonia. We went to sort of a working-class steakhouse, but it had the best meat in town. And the chef comes over, first of all, to each person and individually talks to them about how they want their meat cooked and what cut. And you look on the menu, and a half-portion steak is 20 ounces. A full portion is 40 ounces.

Oh, my goodness. Yeah. So that is a serious meat-loving culture. And did people eat the whole 20 or 40 ounces? Oh, yeah. I think people who are working on the pompous, I think they're working very hard, and they can take down, not only are they taking down a 40-ounce steak, but they're starting with sweetbreads.

Sweetbreads there are like, you know, hush puppies here. So they have sweetbreads to start, and then they have a 40-ounce steak with a load of French fries, and they, of course, each polish off a bottle of Malbec. And they're in, like, great shape and look awesome. And they're in great shape. We've got to change our diet, it seems, and get outside more and work harder. Oh, my goodness.

And then what's on your bucket list, though? So those are all wonderful trips. I guess what's left? Japan. So all over Asia, but Japan in particular. Yeah, Japan's on my bucket list. I haven't been there yet, but I'd love to ski and check it out. Yeah.

And see all the culture and the food. I love sushi. So I don't know if they have a lot of cheese over there. I don't think they have a lot of cheese. No. Because I know you like cheese. I do love cheese. I do.

Oh, my goodness. Okay, so, well, thank you for joining us today. I mean, this has been really fun getting to know you, know your career path, and kind of the whole story. I mean, I feel like we've missed out on a lot of these. There's probably more details we could dig into. But overall, from farm life and raising cattle and corn to the whole gamut of investment banking, fashion, and starting Loring Woodruff. Well, this was really fun. It was fun talking all about myself.

I hope it was somewhat interesting to everyone. It definitely was. And the great advice of listen to your passion, not your pocketbook is really meaningful because, you know, you started your 20s as listening to your pocketbook. And so that's something we can all take away. I mean, I think that's a valuable and applicable lesson. I listened to my pocketbook too. And I went into fashion. I didn't go into fashion. I went into finance too. The same thing, the same story. And I sat there and was like, every day, what am I doing? And I wanted to be doing different things. And when you find something that you're passionate about,

when I started Lumi, my days were 20 hours. I didn't think twice. I was there every day. I'd sleep at the office. I would take five-minute power naps and go back at it because it just brought me a lot of energy. So that's awesome. Well, thank you.

And thanks, everyone, for joining the Juicy Details. We'll see you next week, same time, same place. I love you mean it from our showroom to you. Have a great day. Thank you. Thanks, Hillary. Thanks, Hillary. Thanks, Lori.