The I Love CVille Show With Jerry Miller! - Man Arrested After Gun Found In Child's Backpack; Metal Detectors, Life Alerts, Surveillance Cams

Episode Date: September 25, 2024

The I Love CVille Show headlines: Man Arrested After Gun Found In Child’s Backpack Metal Detectors, Life Alerts, Surveillance Cams In Schools More Analysis On 501 Cherry Ave Development Development Reaction: Cherry Ave vs High Street Shuttered Small Grocery Stores Around CVille Area Start Of Bridge Crossing US29 Delayed Until Oct 1 Houseless Man Found Dead In Greenbrier Neighborhood Jefferson Council President On Show On 10/3 Read Viewer & Listener Comments Live On-Air The I Love CVille Show airs live Monday – Friday from 12:30 pm – 1:30 pm on The I Love CVille Network. Watch and listen to The I Love CVille Show on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn, iTunes, Apple Podcast, YouTube, Spotify, Fountain, Amazon Music, Audible, Rumble and iLoveCVille.com.

Good Wednesday afternoon, guys. I'm Jerry Miller, and thank you kindly for joining us on the I Love Seville Show. We love hosting the program, folks. We try to relay commentary, conversation, content that is relevant to Charlottesville, Albemarle County, Central Virginia, and a community we love extremely dearly. We want you, the viewer and listener, to offer ideas for the show. We want you, the viewer and listener, to share your perspective and direct the show, even if that's a contrarian or dissenting opinion to what we're discussing today. I want that from Judah. I crave that from Judah. I don't want to host a show where it's dominant perspective

and one voice with agreement from all sides. I want to be in a room and hosting a network, executing a network, producing a network where I'm not the smartest person in the room and I'm hearing perspective from everyone. Yesterday's show embodied that, and I thank you, the viewer and listener, for helping provide that value proposition.

For me, I left invigorated after yesterday's show. A lot we're going to cover on the program. We're going to talk Cherry Avenue development today. We are going to talk on today's program, the Orange County public school debacle that was a six-year-old with a loaded gun in his backpack. We have more analysis on this. and linked directly to a six-year-old bringing a loaded gun to an elementary school in Orange County, Virginia. This man has done time in the past, Judah, and he apparently stashed a loaded gun in a six-year-old's backpack,

and this kid brought it to school. More commentary and analysis we have to relay to you. We're going to talk 501 Cherry Avenue. Fantastic article in the Seville Weekly today from Sean Tubbs. Sean Tubbs, submit today's article for a Virginia Press Award. I think you have a very good shot of getting some hardware from the VPA on your commentary, your analysis, your reporting on 501 Cherry Avenue and Fifill and Cherry Avenue in totality. There's some competing interests that are

happening on one of the most underserved and underperforming corridors in the city of Charlottesville. I said there's two underserved and underperforming corridors in Charlottesville that stand out from all the others, and that's Cherry Avenue and High Street. I want to compare and contrast Cherry Avenue and High Street and what's happening to those corridors. 71 apartments in the hopper on the gateway, the entry point of Cherry. 71. It's intriguing to me, Judah, that those 71 apartments, a Woodard Properties Project, are not facing the kind of resistance 250, 240 apartments faced on High Street on the banks of the Rivanna River. I want to unpick the socioeconomic idiosyncrasies and dynamics of development on High Street and development on Cherry Avenue today.

The competing interests that we're seeing in Fifeville on Cherry Avenue, the University of Virginia, Judah, that owns a very key piece, owns a lot of key pieces. I mean, let's cut to the chase. The UVA health system, the hospital, is the other bookend of Cherry Avenue. If the first bookend is Tonsler Park and 501 Cherry Avenue, the Woodard property, the other bookend is the hospital. And UVA is expanding up Cherry. We clearly see the city and development is heading that way. Woodard owns the Cherry Avenue shopping

center. They own the vacant lot across the street. And they own the entry point to Cherry, as I've highlighted, the old IGA Kim's Market. Yeah. Piedmont Housing Alliance is in the mix. Mm-hmm. A historically African-American community is trying to find their place in this shaping of this corridor. We'll talk about that today. We'll highlight today, it's a topic that came up yesterday, the grocery stores that have shuttered in the Charlottesville area that are small and discount. I compiled a list and by no means do I think this list is the bible of shuttered small discount grocery stores. So if I'm missing one, please let me know. I'll whet your appetite with the list that I compiled and ask you, the viewer and

listener, to add to the list. We have the grocery store in Earliesville that Vanessa Parkhill brought to our attention yesterday, now a mechanic shop. The Belmont Market, a small discount grocery store shuttered. Anderson's Carriage House, owned by Ten Anderson, friend of the program, client of the program. Anderson's is now selling seafood under a tent on Ivy Road. The Seville Market in the old Carlton Road Shopping Center, another one that shuttered and closed. Kim's Market, of course, on Cherry Avenue. I think we should include Lidl. Lidl? How do I say it? Is it Lidl? I think it's Lidl. Lidl? The Lidl grocery store closed. It could not make it here. That was the

discount grocery. So you've got Earleysville Grocery, Belmont Market, Anderson's, the old Charlottesville Market and the Carlton Shopping Center, the Kim's Market on Cherry, Lidl. And we know that Reed's is on a very precarious position. I want to add to that list on today's show. We're going to talk on the program about the remains of a houseless individual that was found in the Greenbrier neighborhood, a Tony neighborhood. And many in the community, you know, up at arms with what's going on with the houseless population. George Gilmer says Fresh Market in Alamaro Square. I'll add that to the list

although I do not think fresh market is in the small discount grocery category but I will add fresh market to the closed grocery store list thank you George Gilmer for that contribution I'm going to put that on the list he said in Almaral Square

fresh market does Lidl fit that model too? the small yeah although it was a chain it was small and it was discount And Almaral Square, fresh market. Does Lidl fit that model too? The small? Yeah, although it was a chain, it was small and it was discount. Okay. I mean, that one, I would agree with you, is a bit of a stretch when compared to the Earleysville Grocery, Belmont Grocery, Anderson's, Reed's, Seville Market. Yeah. But, I mean, I think it's more so than fresh market.

I want to give some props to Dr. John Shabe and Pro Renata. Dr. John Shabe goes from dentist to beer baron. Someone reach out to John Shabe, let him know we're giving Pro Renata some props. My family, my wife, our kids, our friends enjoying many Sunday afternoons, Saturday afternoons at Pro Renata. The kids play on the playground. They enjoy Dino's Pizza and Muthru ice cream, while the parents are watching football, college, and professional, and enjoying hazy Skyline IPAs. Pro Renata plus the Disney World of Crozet.

They're doing real estate development in downtown Stanton, and they're brewing beer in the old Skipping Rock location. Beer Baron from Dennis to Beer Baron, Dr. John Shabe. And how about my boy Johnny Ornalis, Big Ups to J.O. J.O. and River Hawkins at Mexicali Restaurant on West Main Street. If you have yet to try Mexicali Restaurant, you are missing one of the best dining experiences in Virginia Virginia period. It's like Mexican, Latin, California, Hispanic cuisine served in a street art museum with some of the best cocktails possible and a live music venue.

I mean, it just changes shapes and personalities depending the time of day. Mexicali, big ups to Mexicali restaurant. Judah Wickhauer on a two-shot. I'm going to ask you which topic is most intriguing to you. I hope you do not lead with, like I said, on this, my friend, because when the podcast is uploaded to the streaming platforms post-show, they do not hear what you said before the show started when mics are hot and the cameras are not on. So which topic is most intriguing to you, Judah B. Wickhour? Oh, the Rock Store on hydraulic. That's another good one, Georgia Gilmer.

I think it is a convenience store now, but I will include that in the mix. Judah Wickhour, the show is yours. I think it's an interesting development in the gun case with the six-year-old in orange. There's some great conversation going on on Facebook right now surrounding that, and I think that's an interesting story that we just have touched on, and now that we have more information um i think there's going to be some good discussions um brought out by this his name is if you want to put the lower third on screen there's two of them dracker lee rawlings a 30 31 year old resident of the town of orange

the daily progress has excellent reporting on this on its website he's been taken into custody he's been charged with multiple gun crimes after the sheriff's office in Orange described a case that's, quote, convoluted and complicated. A six-year-old showed up to school on the 16th of September, nine days ago, with a loaded handgun in his backpack. The school was placed on lockdown. Parents panicked because they were not notified right away. The six-year-old, can you imagine being a six-year-old? And being brought to the office. You're called to the principal's office.

Grilled. The sheriff and the police are surrounding you. People are picking your backpack apart like Thanksgiving turkey, like vultures on roadkill. Yeah. part like Thanksgiving turkey, like vultures on roadkill. And in your backpack, a six-year-old's backpack is a loaded handgun. The sheriff's office in Orange County is saying, we don't think the six-year-old even knew the gun was in his backpack. I, as a father of a six-year-old, my heart breaks Heart breaks, and I am close to emotion on this talk show of a kid walking into a school, not knowing a loaded gun was in his possession.

Teachers and police swarming him, and him being put on the hot seat, investigated and interrogated. Yeah. They have found that a man from Orange, a 31-year-old, Dracker Lee Rawlings, stashed the gun in the six-year-old's backpack due to Wickower. He's been charged with one count of allowing a child access to a firearm, one count of child abuse or neglect, and two counts of possessing or transporting a firearm by a convicted felon. I wonder if that means he's related to the child. It said nothing in this article

that he was related to the child. Which language in this article struck you as him being related? I'm not saying he's not, but they didn't utilize relative, father. They didn't utilize family member in any capacity. No, and I could be wrong. I just saw abuse and neglect

of children and I don't know, made me think potentially that this was a relative, someone that maybe had dropped him off, I don't know. Now we have to ask this question. A six-year-old bringing a loaded handgun

to an elementary school. The fact that the six-year-old did not put the gun in his backpack and walk into school. Instead, it was a convicted felon who stashed the gun in the backpack and the six-year-old brought it to school unknowingly. Does this make the gun in the elementary school

a more concerning story or a less concerning story or neutral from a concern standpoint? Oh, man. I'll probably get some people saying I'm nuts, but I think it's a little bit less concerning. A tiny bit. Make your argument. This wasn't a kid planning something.

This wasn't, you know. Can a six-year-old plan something, Judah? There was a six-year-old that shot a teacher. There you go. I set that up as a softball for you that was the response I hope you would come with keep pushing push back push back this wasn't this wasn't I mean it's still concerning

obviously this is why a lot of people are still are continuing to push for for metal detectors in school and there are some good arguments in the comment section. Well, you didn't set the terms. What do you mean by the comment section? The comment section of this Facebook post where we're reading from attorney Tim Anderson

what is largely an opinion of his, followed up by some screenshot clippings of what appear to be other Facebook posts. Vanessa Parkville, Carl Simeon, one from the Orange County Sheriff's Office. SHB, I'll just leave it as her initials, share this post with me. It's becoming part of the program. Attorney Tim Anderson writes on Facebook. He says, last week I highlighted a case in Orange County. You give us the nitty-gritty on Attorney Tim Anderson, the who, what, when, where, why. I'm going to, how you do that is click the link and go to the profile. Give us the who, what, when, where, why. Before you do, I'll give you some time with what he wrote for the viewers and listeners. Last week, I highlighted a case in Orange County where a six-year-old brought a gun to school.

It appears the child had no idea the gun was in his bag, but instead was stashed in the child's bag by a convicted felon. No law would have stopped this. Convicted felons are prohibited from having guns, but here we are. Tim Anderson writes, someone could have stopped this, the members of the Orange County School Board by allocating resources for metal detectors in schools. The school board is responsible for the safety of children. It failed the children. So does every school board that fails

to provide courthouse-level security at every school in the Commonwealth. Orange County got lucky here. That is not how we should be protecting our children. I stand up on, as you go to the studio camera, then we'll go to a two-shot as you give the who, what, when, where, why. I stand up. I raise the microphone arm, and I applaud

Tim Anderson, the Esquire, on that commentary. Two-shot Judah Wittgower, the who, what, when, where, why of Tim Anderson. Tim Anderson is a lawyer. He handles bankruptcy, firearm rights, criminal defense, and civil litigation for Anderson & Associates, P.C. They're located in Virginia Beach. This is an attorney from Virginia Beach offering commentary on something that happened in Orange County, a man whose judgment has not been clouded or convoluted by a family member impacted by this turn of events. The Orange County superintendent in the coverage of the Daily Progress today also showed some level of remorse.

The level of remorse he showed was the parents were not contacted quickly enough. I highlighted this last week. Do you remember? You pushed back on me on this. Well, he's got to apologize. He does not have to apologize. He did not let the parents know that a loaded handgun was on the person of a child and that the gun was found and that the school was in a safe setting. Parents found out through the gossip grapevine and panicked

because the communication was not transparent and efficient enough. And he admitted to that. And now he's been bombarded by phone calls and emails. And so while he may not have to apologize, he does have to apologize. I can assure you if this happens again, the communication will be transparent, efficient, and quick. It will not be the hours that transpire. He is now alluding to metal detectors, surveillance cameras, and life alerts.

The stuff the teachers have on their possession, on their person, or wear around their neck. Like the life alert commercial. Ladies and gentlemen, where do you stand on this? I'll make the legitimate argument that a six-year-old unknowingly bringing a loaded handgun into an elementary school unknowingly is a worst-case scenario than a six-year-old bringing a loaded handgun knowingly into an elementary school. It is a worst-case scenario because unknowingly that kid is being used by adults that have acumen and IQ and ulterior motives that can be much more sinister or robust than that of a six-year-old's mind or brain that is fresh and developed.

The extent of what our six-year-old, my wife and I, knows from an anger standpoint is tantrums, crying, and some lashing out. It's not a six-year-old having a master plan to go on a rampage. But if an adult can stash a loaded gun on a six-year-old having a master plan to go on a rampage but if an adult can stash a loaded gun on a six-year-old's backpack and it can make it into school then that is the springboard for a potential greater plan or ulterior motive and it doesn't just have to be an adult over 18. remember this past fall at charlottville High School, students in the high school were using a side door entrance to get other kids, other teens, 19-year-olds

into the school to raise drama. Think about a 19-year-old stashing a weapon in a backpack unknowingly and then finding his or her way into a school. I'll say it once, I'll say it again. We go through a metal detector at hospitals, through airports, through courthouses. We go through metal detectors at sporting events and at public school, athletic events where the attendance is 250 or greater. Why they're not at the entrances of all schools

is mind-boggling. And I'm itching to hear an argument made from the other side. The argument you posed, and I'll stop if you want to continue it, is the metal detector, the life alerts, and the surveillance cameras create a path to prison position.

I said that some people may feel that. Not necessarily about all of those, but certainly some of them. I don't have anything against putting metal detectors in schools. It could be argued that this should have been started back when we were first starting to see, you know, sadly, school shootings as a regular or at least somewhat regular occurrence. Sandy Hook, Columbine. We probably should have been putting in metal detectors back then after those terrible events. However, what we have to remember now is that

things like this need a kind of what, like a critical mass. The fact that we haven't started doing this across the United States means that somebody has to start it for it to become, or at least start to become common. Okay, can I explain very succinctly why the metal detectors have not been integrated into the entrances of public schools?

Can I explain very succinctly? Sure. Because the metal detector in 2024 is a political landmine. It is a dog whistle. It is a leverage point that is divisive for folks on either side of the aisle. The metal detector is on the same political plane

as book banning, as single-sex bathrooms. Same plane. It's a political ploy, pawn, talking point, landmine, whatever the hell you want to call it. That's why I said once implementation starts, more schools will start implementing metal detectors. What we need to do is we need to take ego

out of school elections and politics. Politics should be way apart at the school level. And it should be about how do you keep kids the most safe? But now when you run, you have the same talking points. And these are the talking points. Or these are the landmines you have to navigate. Book banning. School resource officers.

Transgender. Budget cuts. Metal detectors. Most of those things will always be. They have not always been that way. The school resource officer only until recently became a political landmine. Only recently. School resource officers were always part of schools. Certainly when I was growing up. Certainly well after I was growing up. Okay. Lafayette High School, Jamestown High School, Williamsburg, Virginia, always a part of them.

You knew your SRO. Okay. I've never, I never had one, so. Janice Boyce Trevelyan. My daughter, a teacher, let me know there is a procedure, a letter like that has to go through that would have taken more than the time the parents

may have thought was acceptable. I'm sure that includes lawyers. Offer some more insight into that Janice, was acceptable. I'm sure that includes lawyers. Offer some more insight into that, Janice, JBT. I respect your opinion. Georgia Gilmer says Rebecca should be included on that list of shuttered small grocery stores. That's another good call. I'll add that to the list.

We've got so much to talk about Cherry Avenue, which we'll get to in a matter of moments. Johnny Ornelas, Vanessa Parkhill, Aaron King, Danny Huglis, Sarah Hill Buchenski, welcome to the program, Paul Johnson. Viewers and listeners, let us know your thoughts. Judah, any other pieces of commentary that you want to offer on this perspective? John Blair, I'm going to get to your comments in a matter of moments. Anything, J-Dubs? No, not right now.

I'll close with this. The commentary from Attorney Tim Anderson from Virginia Beach, who has no dog in the Orange County fight, is 1,000% how I feel, and I appreciate SHB for sharing that with me. That gun does not make it into the school if the child walks through a detector at the front entrance of the school. That's fair.

Period. I think his comment is still a little bit inflammatory because... How is it inflammatory? Because until widespread adoption of metal detectors in schools becomes commonplace, saying that the school board at the Orange County School is responsible for this is, I think, a little bit, is going a little bit too far. Viewers and listeners, do you agree or disagree with Judah Wickhauer on that comment?

Judah Wickhauer says the Orange County School Board is not responsible. Are you saying the Orange County School Board is not responsible. Are you saying the Orange County School Board is not responsible for the safety of the students? No, I'm not saying that. Are you saying the Orange County School Board should not be held accountable for the six-year-old having the gun inside the elementary school in Orange? had schools across the country trying to implement metal detectors in every school is proof that this hasn't gained enough traction. And to say that this school in Orange County should know better and should have pushed for metal detectors is, I think, a little bit, going a little bit too far.

Agree or disagree with Judah Whitcower? Put your thoughts in the feed. I'll relay them live on air. Sarah Hill Buchenski says the attorney was also a representative of the state government. Carl Seelman, thank you for watching the broadcast. Vanessa Parkhill says if they don't have metal detectors, how was the gun found, fellas? That's a good question. We know the answer to that an employee of the school

was helping the six-year-old unpack his bag and saw it that's the answer it's not a good question we know the answer it's been reported an employee of the school but she didn't know the answer she's asking us i know and so it's a good question right because other people might not know the answer either right but it's up to us to answer it. The answer to that question is an employee of the school helped the six-year-old unpack his backpack and found it. Yeah. Yeah. That's how it was found.

If I was a parent in the school system, you better believe that I would be speaking in front of the school board saying, you got, by the grace of God, by the grace of God, a free pass here. So you believe that they're responsible as well? I think the school board now, after this, anything moving forward, the Orange County school board is responsible. That's fair. Anything moving forward. And I'll take it a step further. Viewers and listeners, listen to this before we get off this topic. After this That's fair. any school board in central Virginia, it's responsibility of them. They've got a free pass here. Next time it's not a free pass. It's on the shoulders and it's on the school board. Okay.

Janice Boyce-Trevillian, the teacher or principal cannot just send out a letter or statement. It has to be filed through the proper channels and approved all the way up through the superintendents and lawyers. She also asked do colleges have metal detectors? Colleges have metal detectors at Scott Stadium and the John Paul Jones Arena. When I went to UVA, there were not metal detectors on the school buildings that I would enter prior to class, the classes I did go to. Next topic, Judah Wicker.

Put the lower thirds on screen. Let's see. More analysis of 501 Cherry Avenue development. If you have 20 minutes today, and it might not take you even 20 minutes, I encourage you to go to the Seville Weekly website and read Sean Tubbs' article called How a Coalition is Trying to Return Black Grocery Store Ownership to Charlottesville. Sean Tubbs did a great job. I mean, some of this is basically a history lesson of our area. He gave a history.

I concur 1,000% with you. He gave a history lesson on Fifeville, Cherry Avenue, and our area. It was fantastic. Yeah. You have some competing interests that are happening here, and you have more information on what's going on. We reported yesterday that there were 71 apartments, Judah, coming to the site of the old Kim's Market or IGA.

All those 71 apartments, studios, two bedrooms, three bedrooms, tied to area median income. 60% and under. Area median income, right? Mm-hmm. The black community in the Fifeville neighborhood has asked if these 71 apartments is what's best for the historically African-American neighborhood that we call Fifeville. I think some of them are worried about traffic. They're worried about traffic.

They're worried about it being a gateway to the neighborhood. They're worried about quality of life change and which is the true clientele of the 71 apartments. 60% AMI when AMI is 124,400. That's pretty high. You're talking somebody that's, you're talking a middle-class family. Yeah. You're talking a middle-class family yeah you're talking a middle-class family there lower middle-class family from a socioeconomic standpoint yeah they're concerned

that 71 apartments tied to 60 60 percent ami will further gentrify a community that's gentrifying very fastly with homes being purchased they're're not all 60% though. Some, not all of them. We talked about it yesterday. I can call up the breakdown. 35 of the 71, half of them are 60% AMI. Yeah. Half of them. Another 18, 50% of them, another 18 of them are tied to 50% AMI.

So you have, do some quick math off the top of my head, 43, 53 of the 71 tied to either 50 or 60% of AMI. Yeah. 50 or 60% of the AMI family household income is 124,200 median according to HUD. What do you call 50 to 60% AMI if the family household income is $124,200? 62. Would you call that lower middle class yeah depending on how many people in the family okay fair great caveat how they got this through these 71 apartments

through council through city hall was the promise of building a home for the Music Resource Center, fantastic non-profit, and creating, air quotes, a shell for a grocery store. Sean Tubbs makes a good point in the article

that the developers who are building the apartments and the music center are not going to know the needs of a grocery store. And I think that's a good point. Keep going. They're going to build a shell and then whoever wants to create, whoever wants to take on the building out. The responsibility. The responsibility.

Of launching the business. Yep. A business that's facing such headwinds that the following small groceries have shuddered in very recent memory. Rebecca's natural food, the Earliesville grocery store, Anderson's carriage house, Lytle, Little, whatever the hell that damn name is, stupid name, Belmont Market, Seville Market and the Carlton Road Shopping Center, Kim's Market, On Cherry, Fresh Market, The Rock

Store, and Reed's being in a precarious position. So here's what's happening in straightforward fashion. One of the most prominent developers in the area, Woodard Properties, owns much of Cherry Avenue. The Cherry Avenue Shopping Center. Find out how much they bought it for. It's in that article.

Find out how much they bought the lot across from the Cherry Avenue Shop center woodard find out how much they paid a divorced a divorcee for her kim's market property cherry avenue shopping center uh purchased for 1.9 million in april of 21 okay during covid the undeveloped world was falling apart and shopping centers were at a... Think about that. In April of 20... Please. April of 2021.

Peak COVID. They bought a shopping center at arguably the lowest point in commercial space generational history. Peak COVID. April 2021. generational history peak covid april 2021 we were afraid to breathe let it go let alone go into shops they bought a shopping center on cherry avenue where i could hit a pitching wedge and hit the uva hospital the uva corner and i could take a five iron out and hit the downtown mall. They paid how much for the Cherry Avenue shopping center? 1.9 million. 1.9 million. That's an effing steal. Props to Woodard. Effing props to Woodard. Peak COVID when commercial was as distressed as

it's ever been. Dropped less than two mil by a shopping center. Props to Woodard. Next, the lot across the street. Can't wait to hear this. July, same year, 1.55 million. 1.55? For a vacant lot with massive upside. At what time was that? July. Of peak COVID? Mm-hmm.

How much did they pay for IGA and when? Let's see. I'll have to look for that. You've got one development entity that owns arguably three of the five or six most important pieces of monopoly on the board. Three of the most five, three of what? The six most important squares on the monopoly board?

And then they go to government and they say, we want to bring apartments, 71 of them. Tied to 50 or 60% AMI. AMI is 124,200. And we want to build 71 apartments there and government says you need to listen to the neighborhood. You need to find a home for the music resource centers and you're going to see if we can get a fresh produce grocery store there and they're like well you know what know what? The total project cost,

the number's in there. What's the total project cost? Is it 50 million? Isn't that number in there? Yeah, something like that. Total project cost, 50 million? We'll kick 3 million of that 50 to build a shell

for a grocery store. And then whoever wants it has got to rent it from us or they can buy it from us. And then it's up to you to build out the store, the aisles, the fridges, the freezers,

the lighting, the electrical, the infrastructure. And in this article, Sean Tubbs literally quotes Anthony Woodard on the record. And he says, we're going to have to rent these properties above market value. Did you read that? Yeah. We're going to have to rent these above market value for the math to pencil out. So let me understand something.

At a time in Charlottesville, Virginia history where the Earleysville grocery store captive audience, captive consumer in Earleysville, Virginia That's fairly deep pocketed At a time where the Belmont grocery store Captive audience, deep pocketed consumer Anderson's Carriage House The Seville Market

Little, Lytle, who gives a F Kim's Market Fresh Market The Rock Store Rebecca's Natural Foods And potentially Reed's can't make it. Someone's going to have to find the money to build out the store and to potentially pay rent that's higher than market value supports or suggests. And they're going to have to do it in a neighborhood that doesn't have the

foot traffic, the disposable income, or frankly, the number of consumers to support the business at a time where the category is arguably the most saturated category in business in the Charlottesville area, except for maybe coffee shops and realtors. Like grocery stores? F yeah. There's a grocery store everywhere. They're all fighting for the same dollar. Make it make sense.

Make it make sense. And who's been saying this from day one on this talk show John Blair has Deep Throat has, I have and folks are punch drunk with the romantic

notion of running into their neighbor in the bread aisle to talk about their kids soccer team or learning how to play chess in the bread aisle to talk about their kid's soccer team, or learning how to play chess in the parking lot of the grocery store, or having the community Zocalo be the grocery store. Step into reality. We rarely see you this cynical, Jerry.

I am not being cynical. I am being realistic. And you're right. It's a fine line between cynicism and realism. But the last thing a historically marginalized community needs is to be propaganda too. False hopium? Propaganda.

And you know who knows this? You know who knows this? The person who paid 1.9 million, the outfit that paid 1.9 million for a shopping center during peak COVID, the outfit that paid less than 2 million for a critically vacant lot during peak COVID across from the shopping center, and the outfit that paid less than $2 million for a critically vacant lot during peak COVID across from the shopping center.

And the outfit that paid X amount of dollars. How much was it for the divorcee's lot, the grocery store? It was $1.55 for the lot. We're talking all combined here. $1.9? How much was the vacant lot? $1.55. How much was the grocery store?

$3.5. How much was the grocery store? 3.5. Less than $7 million for the three of the most important boards, pieces on the Monopoly boards, squares on the Monopoly boards, during COVID. During COVID. Okay. I'm not sure why you're whispering. What do you think those would go for right now?

What do you think those would go for at 2019 prior to the pandemic? I rest my case. Okay. Comments? John Blair. Respect this man's opinion tremendously. To give you an idea of a micro-experiment,

all you have to do is look 15 miles south. IGA grocery store was open for 15 years in Scottsville. They were small and discount-oriented. Food line took over their space. Again, grocery groceries about scale. Deep throat, number one. He says this. This is an important point.

This controversy shows that area median income is a terrible metric. Renter households, tenant households have a median income that is 30 to 40 percent below owner median income. He says, I have banged the drum on this over and over. A bad metric statistically and even worse metric dynamically because AMI goes up as gentrification happens.

God, that's so effing good. Can I let, you want to unpack that for the viewers and listeners? Yeah, if you're basing, if you're basing your, what, your lower, not lower class, but if you're basing something- Aff not lower class, but if you're basing something on affordability and need on how much people make, then as people with more money move into the area, your area median income is going to increase as well. And then your bar for who is in the lower...

And the affordable housing yeah goes up with with those people and it becomes and then the people who were at 30 percent are now at 20 percent or 15 percent and it becomes harder for them to uh to get into even low-income housing. We're at the spitballing phase of this 71-unit project. By the time the project is completed and the studio two-bedroom and three-bedroom are developed and ready to live in, the AMI is going to go up thousands of more dollars.

We are basing housing affordability for development projects in a city on a metric tied to homeownership, family household income of homeownership, family household income in homeownership, when we know tenant household income, non-homeownership, is substantially less. This is a, you know what this is? This is what's happening right now.

We're at the corner of 10th and Lex. I'm just making it up. I don't know if that exists. How about I use a community that I know, okay? Okay. We're at the corner of President 10th. There's a sketchy fellow.

He's got a cardboard box on its side. It's about waist high. He's got three red solo cups. He's got a little white ping pong ball. And he says, Judah, here's the ball. Bet you a hundred bucks you can't find it. And you says, Judah, here's the ball. But you're a hundred bucks, you can't find it. And you never, ever find the ball. How much do you think it's going to cost to build a grocery store out?

If it's $3 million to build a show. I have no idea. And then the true cost is the goods and the staffing. Oh, and your rent's going to be higher than market. That list of closed,

Earleysville, Belmont, Earleysville Grocery Store, Belmont Market, Anderson's Carriage House, Seville Market, Lytle, Little, God, Kim's Market, Fresh Market, The Rock Store, Rebecca's Natural Foods. Who else? Who are we missing? How far back are we going?

Tavern and Grocery used to be a grocery. Two TV stations watching this right now. Do you still want to stick on that perch for the grocery? Do I still want to stick on that perch? Do you still want to champion that perch? I'll continue to champion their ability to try. Gary Palmer, welcome to the broadcast. Nate Kibler, welcome to the broadcast. SHB says, and no one to my knowledge is building housing for 40% AMI, and if they did, the other units would be astronomically expensive.

Holly Foster, Ginny Hu. Two developers watching the show, one counselor and one supervisor watching the show. Vanessa Parkhill says, to be fair, the grocery store in Earliesville closed a long time ago. How long ago, VP? You know Earliesville better than I, Queen. How long ago, Vanessa, did it close? I would say that thing closed within the last 15 years. One other headline before we circle back to the other ones to close the program. You have a headline on a bridge, I believe. Yeah. Give them the who, what, when, where, why.

We will soon be getting a bridge across US-29 near hydraulic, which some people will say has been a long time coming.

Is this to circumvent traffic? Make it more efficient? No, this is a bridge. This is so people can cross 29 without having to pray that they don't lose their lives. Like Frogger? Yeah. How long is that going to take to build, do they say? Let's see.

Doing any other work at that intersection is going to be nightmarish for people that have suffered through projects at that intersection, Judah. But if it does make it in the grand scheme more efficient, we'll support it. The beginning of the project has been delayed until October 1st. I'm looking into when they'll actually get it finished. John Blair, amen, brother. And I'm going to get back to the point of comparing high street development and Cherry Avenue. That lower third is going to put on screen as we get more details on this bridge. John Blair pushes back on the cynical comment you made.

I think it's important to note that you're not being cynical, Jerry. If this was really about what the community wanted or about wealth building or what the community needs, you and Judah damn well know that the thousands of square feet would be set aside for a child care center. You want to make a viable wealth creation vehicle for the neighborhood? Child care center is it. A grocery store will not last there. Interesting. This is the proverbial developer's olive branch to get the green light of policymakers and politicians so we can go through what is the true apple of the eye, the 71 units at 60 and 50% AMI. That's what

this is about, knowing that the AMI went from 123,300 to124,200 from 2022 to 2023. And I want to ask you this question. Here's a conversation for your cocktail party. John Blair, giddy up and get ready for this one. This project, Judith, this project that's happening on the Gateway of Cherry, if this project that was happening on the Gateway of Cherry, a shelf for a grocery store, 71 apartments, music resource center, $50 million project. If that happened on High Street, the two most underperforming corridors in the city of Charlottesville right now are Cherry Avenue and High Street.

Those are the two. They have upside, they're underperforming. If this exact project was happening on High Street, how would the High Street neighborhoods and households respond? And would the project even materialize? You can go in so many directions on that one. Say that again. You've got to focus here

because you need everything you've got. This $50 million project that has 71 apartments, a shell for a 7,000 square foot grocery store that's going to cost just $3 million for the shell, a $50 million project, 71 apartments, the music resource center, 71 apartments, the Music Resource Center, the gateway to the neighborhood.

If this exact project was picked up and moved to East High Street, the other underperforming corridor, how would the neighborhood respond, the neighborhoods, the people respond, around High Street, and would the project even materialize? I could do an entire talk show on that.

The socioeconomic, the sociology, the anthropology, the history of those, and why the project would not materialize on High Street and why it is materializing on Cherry Avenue. But I want you, some commentary from you. Well, I think some people have had the same problem with on Cherry Avenue. But I want you, some commentary from you. Just tell me.

I think some people have had the same problem with the Cherry potential Cherry Avenue 501 building as they did with the potentially building a bunch of apartments

near High Street where High Street, where High Street comes out onto Pantops, which is that you're going to have construction vehicles and construction workers constantly up and down that road, basically clogging and congesting this East High Street. And I think some people have brought up

the same issue with this in that there's going to be, and not just with the construction, but with 71 new apartments. The canary in the coal mine. Okay. What happened to 0 East High Street? What happened to Zero East High Street?

I mean, when the city bought the land so that the developer couldn't develop? There it is. The city bought the land so the developer couldn't develop. The developer was, front of the program, Bo Carrington, who was going to build 245 apartments and three apartment buildings. He was going to buy land from Wendell Wood, Elmore County's largest landowner. He was going to build 245 apartments in the banks of the Rivanna River. He had everything ready to go. Outcry from the neighborhood created political pressure, and Charlottesville

opened up its checkbook and paid $5.9 million to kibosh the project. Why is the neighborhoods around 0 East High Street able to get the city of Charlottesville to kibosh the project and to keep it from happening. But the households around Cherry Avenue, there's an individual in Sean Tubbs' article that straight up calls out the developer and says, the community does not trust the developer. Did you read that quote? Do you have that quote in front of you? No, let me see. Why is the neighborhood around there not able to do

the same thing? That is so many ways to go with that. I could spend an entire talk show. Let's see. I could write a thesis on that. It's going to

take me a while to find that. It's on the bottom. It's toward the bottom. Okay. I will see if I can find it as well. I thought this quote, the only knock I have on this is the quote, this quote should have been higher neighborhood skepticism.

Just the name would Woodard. Okay. This is verbatim from Sean's article. This is from Johnson. Let me see if I can find it. No, no, just read the article. Don't get in the weeds. Okay. From Ms. Johnson.

Just the name Woodard. Now, quote, quote. Okay, quote, just the name Woodard. It is not a name that a lot of people think much of, me being one if I'm being honest. You just constantly see take. They just seem to take. They've infiltrated all of those neighborhoods. Johnson said nearby residents already suffer the impacts of traffic congestion, and a new apartment building will make things worse. How is that any different? That's what I was just explaining. But there is a difference.

Are you going to throw in the banks of the Rivanna? Are you going to throw the ecological, environmental? Are you going to throw the potential risk of a once-in-a-century flood? Is that what you're going to throw in? Call it what you want. But we're not going to call the significant gentrification of a historically African-American neighborhood and put it in the same category as a once-in-a-generation flood, once-in-a-lifetime flood. Okay.

Do you want to put them in the same category? Well, it seems to me one's more significant than once in a lifetime flood. Okay. You disagree? You're painting this narrative. I'm not painting the narrative. I'm just reading the tea leaves.

Okay. I'm just reading the two notes. I think there are differences. I think you have some points. I think the people of Cherry Avenue have a right to decide whether or not this is a good thing or not. But I think there are some definite differences

that put these on different planes. Compelling. Some conversation for your cocktail party this weekend. Including the polar plunge that's going to happen at our house on Saturday. Vanessa says about 15 years ago, maybe 20 at this point. Seems like forever.

Wasn't too long after Hollymead Town Center that the Earliesville grocery store closed. Anyway. The Wednesday edition of the talk show. Deep Throat, Zero East High Street had a lot of problems, also some angles for the city to block it. Access was not compliant with zoning. The shimtastic FEMA map adjustments were highly suspect, and there was basically zero affordable housing component. Like I said, there were some differences. Some differences.

I'm going to ask you this question. Here's a very pointed question. Does the dynamic and the socioeconomic makeup of one neighborhood versus another neighborhood create more clout or influence or political pressure to prevent development from happening? I'm sure it does. Yeah. I would say 100%. 100%, right? Mm-hmm.

And what do you call that? I mean... We can get... Spend an entire show on that one. I mean, you can call it racism, but we all see the world through different lenses, and we're not always aware when we are using those lenses. And the fact of the matter is... Are there more voters around 0 East High Street? And the fact of the matter is...

Are there more voters around 0 East High Street than there are in FIFO? I honestly don't know. We'd have to look at the voting districts and tally the numbers. Something to think about. The Wednesday edition of the I Love Seville show he's Judah Wicower he was fantastic I like when you push back we get conversational

love you viewer and listeners as well thank you kindly for joining us we appreciate your time we're back tomorrow at 10.15am for today manana we'll continue the discussion on the I Love Seagull show and remember Neil Williamson is in the saddle on the Friday

edition of Real Talk with Neil Smith I always sit across from him so long everybody Thank you.