The I Love CVille Show With Jerry Miller! - Mel's Cafe Building Is Now Currently For Sale; 715 & 731 W Main & 1117 Cream St For Sale

Episode Date: May 30, 2024

The I Love CVille Show headlines: Mel’s Cafe Building Is Now Currently For Sale 715 & 731 W Main & 117 Cream St For Sale $5,900,000 Asking Price (715 – 731 W Main St) What Should City Of CVille Do With Mel’s Cafe? Will Mel’s Cafe Become UVA Student Housing? City Zoning Allows 5-7 Stories, 168 Bedrooms Will CVille Lose Most Iconic Black-Owned Biz? There Will Be Now Shows Tomorrow (Travel) Read Viewer & Listener Comments Live On-Air The I Love CVille Show airs live Monday – Friday from 12:30 pm – 1:30 pm on The I Love CVille Network. Watch and listen to The I Love CVille Show on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn, iTunes, Apple Podcast, YouTube, Spotify, Fountain, Amazon Music, Audible, Rumble and iLoveCVille.com.

Good Thursday afternoon, guys. My name is Jerry Miller. Thank you kindly for joining us on the I Love Seville show on a Thursday afternoon. Programming note for you, I'm traveling tomorrow, so no shows on the I Love Seville network tomorrow on Friday. I am back in the studio on Monday. So the I Love Seville show will return on Monday at 1230, but we're off air tomorrow. I want to give you guys a heads up about that. Yesterday's show, we paid homage to a local icon, Melvin Eugene Walker, he has run Mel's Cafe since 1984.

He did close Mel's known West Main Street as the location to a black-owned business with Melvin Eugene Walker, the namesake, the Derek Jeter of the New York Yankees, the Melvin Eugene Walker of Mel's Cafe, the face of the business, if you may. His personality larger than life, his food, soul food that had you coming back. It was priced fairly. He was generous with his time. He was generous with his spirit. He had a gift of utilizing food to build human connection that withstood generations or bridged generations and had people coming back to his cafe despite leaving Charlottesville or despite maturing from UVA student to local, to tourist.

Today, we have to talk about the cause and effect of Mr. Walker's passing. And the cause and effect of Mr. Walker's passing is the real estate on West Main Street, real estate that is addressed 715 to 731 West Main Street. This includes Mel's. These addresses, these buildings are currently for sale. The asking price is $5,900,000, and the Charlottesville zoning code allows for five to seven stories and 168 bedrooms at this location. There has been a price cut. The listing, which launched in February, came out of the gates at $7.8 million. You look now at the listing on Crexie, and it's got a 5.9 million tied to it.

This is a tough spot here. Why this is a tough spot is Mr. Walker's passing may unfortunately make this real estate more appealing to buyers and developers. From a development standpoint and from a make money standpoint, putting student housing where you can charge $2,000 a bedroom or $2,000 a door is the most lucrative use of 715 West Main Street, 731 West Main, for sale, comma, 117 Cream ST, for sale. I think the city of Charlottesville, and I can confirm that if you'd like me to, 715 ampersand W Main ST, or 715 ampersand 731 W Main ST for sale, comma 1117 Cream ST for sale, if that fits. 1117 or 1117? 1117 sale, if that fits. 1117 or 1117?

1117. Thank you for asking. The city of Charlottesville, and guys, bear with us as we're making some changes, I want to make sure the news is specifically out in the most clear and succinct way possible. I'm looking at the listing in front of me. It's a listing that's done by Bill Howard. Bill Howard, actually a neighbor of mine where I live. Mr. Howard's a commercial broker of fantastic experience and talents. He is the owner of his firm.

He does a lot of commercial business. He's representing Francis and Margaret Gibson. You can find their names on the Charlottesville GIS, the owners of the property. And he's got the zoning and the upside for this listing all broken up and clearly outlined, which I'm going to start to unpack and relay to you. I think the city of Charlottesville is in a very unique position. And it's a unique position in that Mel's Cafe is in such a prominent location and it has such history and significance behind it, a black-owned business in a community that has few black-owned businesses,

that it may somehow get involved, the city of Charlottesville, with commemorating Mel's in some capacity. And I don't know how that would look like, but that's what I want to talk about today. And if you can confirm the channels for us that the stream is up and running on my page, I Love Sivo and the group, that would be fantastic, Judah. Thank you. You hate to have these conversations. You hate to find out that a 69-year-old man died in his car in the Willoughby Shopping Center, and that's where he was found, by medical personnel. You understand that life is short and precious, and change is inevitable.

And you understand that part of that change is losing potentially the charm of Charlottesville and Mel's embodies that charm. You also realize that West Main Street is maybe the most important corridor or gateway in the city of Charlottesville. Can someone identify a more important gateway than West Main Street? The bridge between the University of Virginia and the downtown mall? That gateway than West Main Street, the bridge between the University of Virginia and the downtown mall? That's what West Main is. It's a gateway between the University of Virginia

and the downtown mall. Explain or highlight one that is more important than that one. Please, anyone. Does the city of Charlottesville get involved with more than just a plaque on a brick wall, a commemorative 4x4 wrought iron or bronze plaque that hangs on a brick wall? Has anyone been to Tavern and Grocery on West Main Street? If you look at Tavern and Grocery, there's a plaque that hangs on that restaurant, the outside of the wall.

This Tavern and Grocery restaurant used to be owned by Annie McClure, now owned by Ashley Sieg. She bought it from Annie McClure. Friends of the program, both of them. It used to be Awful Arthur's. It used to be West Main, the bar, fantastic bar that I used to enjoy spending long hours at. My wife and I, on one of our first dates, we had dinner at Three Penny Cafe, then walked across the street for a nightcap at West Main Street, at West Main, the bar.

Interestingly, George Inge, and I hope I'm not messing his last name up, I-N-G-E, and I would encourage anyone while listening to this show in real time or post-show to utilize the website Sevillepedia or just Google George P. Inge, I-N-G-E. And you will see that Mr. Inge opened a grocery store at 333 West Main Street, the site of what is now Taverning Grocery. And this grocery was a black-owned grocery that supported and fed and was patronized by black neighborhoods Fifeville, Vinegar Hill, and Star Hill. This historic grocery, an African-American business, as Sevillepedia says, Inge's Grocery stood at its center as an important commercial and social establishment within Vinegar Hill. For a time, Inge's store was the only place in

Charlottesville to sell fresh fish. Inge's supplied the Claremont and Gleason Hotels, the Dolly Madison Inn, and the University Hospital, as well as fraternities and private homes. In 2004, the city of Charlottesville unveiled a historical mark on front of 333 West Main Street, honoring the significant of Inge's grocery. The Almar Charlottesville Historical Society has a ledger from the store in their collections. So here you have a black-owned grocery that had, what, close to a 100-year run that is pretty much just commemorated or honored with a plaque on the side of a wall that is now Tavern and Grocery, the restaurant.

You sit outside on Tavern and Grocery and you'll see the plaque. I'm all for historical designations and unveiling historical markers, but does that designation and that plaque and that marker that's hanging outside Tavern and Grocery really pay homage or give the respect, the due respect, that George P. Inge deserved as the proprietor of a grocery store that was in a lot of ways part of the heartbeat of Vinegar Hill and Star Hill and Fifeville? I don't think so. When you look at the Tavern and Grocery Restaurant now, do you see any recollection or any recognition of a grocery store? I don't see it. Do you see any recollection or any recognition of a grocery store?

I don't see it. Do you? Are we truly paying our history the right service and justice that it deserved? And if we're going to be honest with ourselves and recognize some of the mistakes that we've made like the destruction and raising of Vinegar Hill, should we not pay greater homage to the businesses that have in a lot of ways carried the flag

or been the front and center aspects of what we destroyed? If Mel's Cafe gets purchased and is eventually torn down and student housing is built and it's five to seven stories and 168 bedrooms, is West Main Street a better place? I would say no. Are we going to have another, the flats or the standard at 715 and 731 West Main Street and 1117 Cream Street? Is that where we're heading? And what's the role with Charlottesville, with city council, with our city manager,

with neighborhood development services, with figuring out a way to honor Mr. Walker's impressive history in this community? Guy's been working at this place since 1984. Grew up in Vinegar Hill. Started working at the Virginian restaurant when he was 11 years old. So I'm going to try to unpack all these elements on the show. This is a complicated topic. Yesterday we paid tribute to the man, and today we have to essentially determine the cause and effect of what's happened.

And if this is terribly unfortunate, everything that's happened, dying in your car in the Willoughby Shopping Center alone, your restaurant currently closed, the building's for sale, future's unknown, and your namesake and legacy potentially close to being eviscerated or evaporated or extinguished.

Since the man has passed and headed to heaven, the deal for developers and investors is probably more opportunistic because you don't have a business that's running that's not the best financial use of the property. $5,900,000 asking price. You can find it online. It's been on the markets since February 1.

Sean Tubbs has got great reporting about this. Initially came out of the gate, and Jude, if you have any questions or you want to jump in with any perspective, let me know. We'll weave you in here very shortly. Initially came out of the gate at $7.8 million. The listing now has a price of $5.9 million. And the marketing description says, this property near the University of Virginia has been identified as a possible student housing project. City zoning allows for five stories with the ability to go to seven

stories, potential for up to 168 bedrooms. Price per square foot, $767.73. Four buildings in this purchase. 715 West Main What do you do if you're city council? What do you do if you're the city manager? If you're the developer who purchases this property, what's the kind of pressure you're going to receive from the local community to honoring the history of what you purchased? If we saw Chris Henry with his, what, phase two, phase three development project getting significant pressure from

the 10th and Page neighborhood when he was trying to convert asphalt parking lots into apartment housing, can you imagine the pressure that's going to come from same community members when Mal's Cafe is involved? If it's an out-of-market buyer, do they have the same commitment to Charlottesville that an in-market buyer was? Chris Henry is one of the best developers you can have to do projects in our community

because he's got ties to the community and cares about the community. Much rather have someone like Chris Henry do a development project than someone that's got no ties to Charlottesville doing a development project because he will try to figure out a way to honor the history of the project he's working on. Does the city of Charlottesville say you're probably looking at the most prominent black-owned business in the city outside of what? The Barrett's Early Learning Center?

Probably those two are the most prominent. Longest history. Did you find one that was able to compete with the history of Barrett's and Mel's yesterday when doing the research there's a list of black owned businesses on the United Way website I don't remember anything

specifically that was that aged those businesses there are certainly a lot of great black owned that aged those businesses. There are certainly a lot of great black-owned businesses in our area, but I think Mel's is definitely one of the longest-lived. Neil Williamson, he makes a fair comment, Mr. Williamson does. He says, property owners have rights.

If someone or a municipality wants to control the property, they should buy it. It's a fair point by Mr. Williamson. President of the Free Enterprise Forum, a man I have tremendous respect for. The owners of this property, and I'm mentioning their name because it's public record online, Francis and Margaret Gibson. Francis and Margaret Gibson have owned 731 West Main Street since 1978 when they purchased it for $13,000. They've owned the 715 to 729 west main street parcels since 1976 when they bought it for sixty thousand dollars this is why you buy and hold real estate. Look at this. A couple that have owned these properties since 1978, 13K, and 1976, 60K, spent $76,000 on them.

And you're looking at a list of $5.9 million right now. Do I expect the city of Charlottesville to buy these properties? No, I do not. The city of Charlottesville is not in the business of buying real estate unless they're dealing with Wendell Wood and the land by the river on High Street, the Rivanna River. Do I want the city of Charlottesville to purchase this property? No, I do not.

Because that's just going to mean tax dollars uptick for all of us. Because once you buy it, you spend 5.9, say it's the asking price, then you're going to have to maintain it or do something with it. However, could the city of Charlottesville work with a potential buyer and offer tax subsidies or credits

to encourage the honoring of history? Perhaps. You read what Sean Tubbs reported in InfoSeaVille. The Board of Architectural Review very much has to say into what happens here. What stood out to you from what you read, Judah? I think what stood out to me was the fact that they're looking to preserve, at the very least, most of the Mel's Diner building. They're looking into how far back it goes and

how I think they can build around it. I thought that was a great idea. I don't know that somebody wants to take over Mel's Diner and continue with it as a diner. I don't see that happening. I don't know who would do it.

Think about the pressure of that, the responsibility of that. Who could rebrand it without facing backlash? And then if you keep it at Mel's, think about the standard and pressure you would have to maintain every day to

try to just keep up with the monumentous reputation and history of the owner who just passed away were there people that that worked for him that know the recipes that know the business he had team members work for him absolutely um so is it outside of the realm of possibility that one or more of them i'd say that's outside of the realm of possibility that one or more of them... I'd say that's outside of the realm of possibility. Okay. I would say in today's climate, purchasing a restaurant and running a restaurant

is difficult enough. We've highlighted why labor, cost of goods, third-party apps, pretty much cannibalizing sit-down service in a restaurant, and profit margins, third-party delivery apps. Who does own it? I'm assuming that he didn't own the actual property. He did at one time. Okay, but he doesn't, he didn't...

Does not now. And didn't when he passed away. Um, so what is the, um, what is the viability of a business like that? I mean, would it just be, would it just be taking up the lease? If somebody wanted to continue the business, would they just have to, would they just have to work out continuing on the lease? If somebody wanted to continue the business, would they just have to work out continuing on the lease? I mean, if nobody... I think what ends up happening here, and our crystal ball has been proven

to be extremely accurate on this show. I think what ends up happening here is a buyer, a potential buyer, and unfortunately this development project has now more upside with Mr. Walker's passing because a potential buyer may see the upside of not having a diner here anymore and could potentially convert this to housing where the money is greater, the return is more significant. I think what would potentially happen here is a buyer comes in and figures out some kind of common ground agreement with whoever Mr. Walker's heirs are in this business.

And that common ground agreement probably involves some kind of compensation for purchasing of the business. And that compensation for purchasing of the business by whoever chooses to buy these parcels, they chalk that up to the cost of doing business to get a project potentially even better suited for development. That's what I would predict is going to end up happening here. But think about the difficulty of running a business that's not tied to

that's not tied to your name. Jim Hingely, I see that text that you sent me. I'm looking at the listing and do we have it as 117-117 Cream Street, J-Dubs? No, it's 1117. Okay, then I apologize.

I may have misspoke. 117? 117 Cream Street. Thank you, Jim. Thank you, Mr. Hengeley. oof this is so the longer I the older I get I guess the more experience you have with life, the more you realize how complicated life is.

I used to see life in such either simple or more straightforward terms. Now I see life in such gray area. This man's just passed away, and the listing has more traffic than ever by the listing counter, the traffic counter. The properties clearly become more valuable. The city better figure out how it's going to honor this man's legacy.

You hope as a Charlottesvillian that it's an in-market buyer, an in-market developer. Can't see how you would take a cafe and turn it into five to seven stories and 168 bedrooms, which the zoning code allows. Maybe you can get creative with the design and do it. Maybe you figure out a way to make the cafe the first floor restaurant. The flat and the standards, they have restaurants on the first floor. Mexicali is going to go where the world of beer location was. That's apartments above it. The standard has got what? Pot bellies? That's the sandwich shop, I believe. Maybe that's the way you do it, by turning the first floor and keeping it mouths. I just don't want it to be another Inge's Grocery where all it is is a commemorative

plaque on the side of Tavern and Grocery. Bill McChesney, the mayor of McIntyre, he's been in this community a lot longer than I've been. I've been in this community 24 years in August. He says Mr. Inge was also a teacher and he was friends with Mr. Tonsler and a bunch of local black leaders. He also ran a boarding house upstairs above his grocery. When Booker T. Washington, for whom the local park provided by Paul McIntyre was named, he wanted to stay in Charlottesville to appear at UVA,

he would stay with Mr. Inge because he wasn't allowed in local hotels. And speaking of the new zoning, another tidbit that was in Sean Tubbs' reporting, this tidbit was something that Deep Throat sent to me. The Missy Creasy, the Deputy Director of Neighborhood Development Services, said since the end of March, there have been 15 pre-application meetings with folks who are interested in working with the new zoning code in the city. Fifteen pre-application meetings with folks looking to work with the new zoning code. As Deep Throat highlights, 15 in three months

after two years of highly publicizing the run-up to the passage of the new zoning ordinance is an incredibly unimpressive number. Deep Throat says, I'd even call that a bust. The reality is some of these inquiries are probably not even that serious, so you're only talking about a handful of serious ones when it's all said and done. What am I missing here, J-dubs? What do you want to highlight? I mean, I would love to see someone manage to keep the storefront at the very least. I mean, would that not be a good memorial?

I don't know how feasible that is. It looks like some of these plans look like they're planning on building around it. Did you see that? I did see that. Potential footprint would save the fronts

of two contributing structures, including the building that houses Mel's diner. I mean, that would be in the most ideal setting. Yeah. Albert Graves says, the selling of Mel's Cafe building had to be in the works already before Mr. Walker's death. It's sad not only was it one of the most prominent black-owned businesses, but also one of the only places to get a real home-cooked meal in Charlottesville.

The listing, and you can see the days on market, has been up since February 1, 119 days active. It was last updated 58 days ago, which you would imagine is the price cut from the 7.8 million that came out of the gates out to the 5.9 million now. I'd be very curious to see the

role the city plays with this project. I'd hope it's an active one. And this is coming from a guy who very much, as with Neil Williamson, that property owners have rights. So would their role be as, I don't know, an advocate for finding a way to preserve the diner? The question is, can you go that far and insist that it be a diner?

Or is the extent of what you go the preservation of the front of the building? Yeah. I think the extent of what you could potentially do is the exterior front. Just have it be like... Insisting that it stays Mel's Cafe with whoever buys it. It seems to be...

Yeah. Yeah, that's rough, but... That's... Yeah. This comes in... Neil is right. This comes in. Neil is right. This comes in. The city could offer a TIF deal to a new owner and developer

providing real estate tax credits for the new development if they leave the MEL structure to allow a new owner to recoup rent and roll opportunity loss. That'd be great. That's a good idea. Yeah. Bill McChesney. Unfortunately, Mel's will probably go the same way Spudnuts did.

That was also a Charlottesville institution. It's the location of Quality Pie right now, Spun Nuts. Yeah. He asked the question, what else was the Mel's Cafe building? A dry cleaner maybe? Some other automotive use? It was, let's see. Judah has that answer.

Mr. McChesney. This is reading directly from the article by Sean Tubbs. Curiously, this was not originally a diner, but was a dry cleaners, and the back single-story building was the machine works of the dry cleaners. A lot of people don't also realize this. Mr. McChesney may remember this. Where we currently are sitting now, the Macklin building, was Macklin Auto. And why the Macklin building on Market Street has two courtyards is because these were the auto bays where cars would pull into the courtyard,

have work done where we're sitting right now, and then pull out the back of the building in the alleyway between the Macklin building and the grocery store, and what is the downtown mall, the Nook restaurant, draft tap room, and some of those retail outlets. Mr. Macklin converted this building into a mixed-use building with commercial on the first and second floor, and seven or eight residential penthouses on the third floor that you would be surprised what they trade for. You're talking $600,000 up to $1.2 million, $1.3 million.

Because of their location downtown. I'm highlighting this because I think it's still a relevant storyline. I'm highlighting this because I want to see the history commemorated besides just a plaque on the side of the wall. I'm highlighting this because there are very few black-owned businesses and there are very few black-owned businesses of this kind of tenure and this kind of history. I hope the same treatment is allocated to Barrett Early Learning Center. I'm highlighting this because the prominence and the location, West Main Street, being arguably the most important gateway between UVA and the downtown mall. I'm highlighting this because I just don't want to see another charming historical landmark raised and repositioned as an apartment tower. And we have too many

of those on West Main Street. Anything else you want to get out of your notebook? I was very, very happy to hear that the nursing student has been allowed on campus. I don't know the exact details of that deal, but there was a petition that was going around, which I signed. And the UVA nurse, the PVCC nursing student who got caught in the protest crossfire, proverbial crossfire. He was a DoorDash delivery driver. He delivered food to protesters, saw some of his buddies protesting, decided to hang out, ended up becoming one of the 27 arrested. As one of the 27 who were arrested, he was issued a no trespassing order. You couldn't step foot on grounds. This kept him from basically pursuing

a career as a nurse. He was going to start that through an externship with UVA Health because he could. And it was a requisite. It was required that he do an internship. And this was basically going to potentially derail his entire career. Yeah. And there were some, I think some people had questions about whether or not he was actually door dashing that day ultimately i don't think any of the questions matter uh he wasn't charged i mean what the serious the most serious of the charges from that day were against a uh a 41 year old photographer um and so the fact that and those charges were dropped the most serious charge was this

female photographer got physical with police officers and the video proved that was not the case and for some reason this no trespassing order was still in effect however local

media covered it including our show after attention in local media covered it, including our show. After attention in local media and our show, Longo and UVA decided to rescind the no trespassing order. Yeah. Or at least make an exception. Make an exception. Sounds like there may be some deal in place. But either way, I'm glad that this guy is getting a chance. We can use all the people who want to get into the medical field, especially as nurses, more power to them. I think this is the right move by UVA. This is definitely the right move. Also, the story got way more complicated because the guys of Middle Eastern descent. Again, I don't know how that has any bearing on this story.

The white kids had their no trespassing order pulled, but the guy of Middle Eastern descent had his no trespassing order kept in effect? Yeah, it's nuts. It's not a good look. No. The white female photographer who was charged with

pushing police officers? Assault. Assault of officers? Yeah. Had her charges pulled, but the DoorDash delivery driver, who's Middle Eastern, couldn't step foot on grounds to pursue his nursing career? Yeah.

Good night. That ain't good. Last topic for me. Remember, no show tomorrow. The Wall Street Journal has ranked the University of Virginia among leaders in finance, consulting, and tech jobs. This is on news.virginia.edu.

The Wall Street Journal found the University of Virginia is exceptional when it comes to positioning undergraduates for high-paying jobs in finance, consulting, and technology. In its springtime ranking, fire trucks, for high-paying jobs in finance, consulting, and technology. And its springtime ranking... Fire trucks? Yeah.

Definitely. There they are. And its springtime ranking, the Wall Street Journal publication ranked UVA number three for finance, number five for consulting, and number 13 in technology. The rankings, which include the top 20 public and private universities for

launching graduates into high-earning jobs, aim to answer this question. If the chosen career and the number of years in the field are the same, what effect does the undergraduate school somebody want to have on their salary? This effect can be huge. And UVA is number three in financing, number five in consulting, and number 13 in technology. I will assure you the technology ranking will increase when the biotech school and the data science school are up in full swing. And remember the effect of these graduates leaving UVA with high-paying jobs. Some of them come back to Charlottesville to live and Alamaro County to live with those high-paying jobs. Yeah. Do we want that?

Can you prevent that? No. What's good for the local economy may not be good for housing affordability. Yeah. That's the Thursday edition of the show. Judah Woodcower, Jerry Miller, I'm off tomorrow for travel and I'm back in the saddle on Monday at 1230. Follow the Mel's story closely. I think this is just the beginning of what is going to be a multi-layered onion and a very complicated development project. For Judah Woodcower, I'm Jerry Miller. So long. Thank you.