The I Love CVille Show With Jerry Miller! - Message From Jefferson Council President; Rising Costs To Attend University Of Virginia

Episode Date: July 16, 2024

The I Love CVille Show headlines: Message From Jefferson Council President Rising Costs To Attend University Of Virginia UVA Prof – Trump Shooting “Staged Theatrics” Read Viewer & Listener Comments Live On-Air The I Love CVille Show airs live Monday – Friday from 12:30 pm – 1:30 pm on The I Love CVille Network. Watch and listen to The I Love CVille Show on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn, iTunes, Apple Podcast, YouTube, Spotify, Fountain, Amazon Music, Audible, Rumble and iLoveCVille.com.

Good Tuesday afternoon, guys. I'm Jerry Miller, and thank you for watching the I Love Seville show. It's a pleasure to connect with you through a network called the I Love Seville Network that airs on every social media platform except for right now Twitter, and it pains me to say that. I swear we are doing our best to try to figure out the new, what do you call them, Twitter, and it pains me to say that. I swear we are doing our best to try to figure out the new... What do you call them? Twitter updates? Constantly changing the

back-end Twitter and how it integrates with our proprietary software. A lot we're going to cover on today's program, guys. Give it a like, give it a share. I'm not sure what you said right there. You do want to check, need to check LinkedIn that we're streaming over there. I'm not seeing that we're live. Take a look at the screen for today's headlines. Actually, the first headline should be

a lower third that you could put on screen. It's going to be about the Jefferson Council. We're going to get to that in a matter of moments. We also got a sale of Afton Mountain Vineyards that we have to cover on the program. Afton Mountain Vineyards in Nelson County has traded hands. We got a UVA professor calling the Trump assassination attempt stage theatrics to win votes from idiots. I mean, this is one of the most, you know, outlandish comments I've seen from someone associated with the University of Virginia. We'll talk about that today on the program. We'll take questions, comments, thoughts from you, the viewer and listener. We'll, of course, highlight Judah Wickhauer and some of his perspective today on the program as well.

Give me a thumbs up when LinkedIn is live, and then let's weave you in on a two-shot. The Jefferson Council story is one that we teased yesterday and we're going to lead with today. The president of the Jefferson Council highlights the need to reduce expenses and that it must be a priority for the Board of Visitors to reduce expenses at the University of Virginia. The Jefferson Council has a tagline of preserving Thomas Jefferson's legacy at the University of Virginia, and they have four founding pillars. Pillar number one, promote a culture of civil dialogue, the free exchange of competing ideas, and intellectual diversity

throughout the university. Pillar number two, preserve the Jefferson legacy. Pillar number three for the Jefferson Council, preserve the appearance of the lawn as a UNESCO World Heritage Site. And pillar number four, support and reinvigorate the honor system. The message from the president of the Jefferson Council highlights the expensive nature of attending the University of Virginia. And because of this expensive nature, it's basically become a school for the wealthy. And that school for the wealthy tendency is, these are my words now, not just impacting the look and feel of the university, but are radically and quickly changing Charlottesville and Albemarle County, as every year, a third of the undergraduate

student body at the University of Virginia, one third of the undergraduates are out-of-state students that are spending somewhere, ladies and gentlemen, I cannot believe I'm about to say this, somewhere between $80,000 and $93,000 a year to attend UVA for one academic season. I want to talk about that on today's program. Get your thoughts, your perspective. We'll talk the Afton Mountain Vineyard story today, and we'll talk the UVA professor calling the Trump assassination attempt stage theatrics. Here's the story. You can find the Jefferson Council topic on the jeffersoncouncil.com. Say what you want about the Jefferson Council. This organization is certainly putting, certainly influencing the narrative and the news cycle. Bert Ellis is on the Board of Visitors. He is the Jefferson Council in a lot of ways.

Its president has published some commentary that I find, frankly, very compelling with the cost of attending the university and how middle class and even upper middle class families are now unable to afford this university. They attribute the rising cost of attending UVA to the bloated salaries and the unnecessary paid personnel at the university with a direct connection to the diversity, equity, and inclusion effort at Thomas Jefferson's university. Two-shot with you, Judah Wicat, where we'll weave you into the mix. I know you read this article. I'm going to offer some commentary. You offer some commentary here on the Tuesday edition of the show. What struck you besides the cost of tuition? I mean, that's a big part of it. What struck me is that UVA costs more than Harvard?

I mean, there's a lot of straight talk in this article. And, I mean, they make a great point that UVA is going to lose a lot of middle class students to other places like, what, UNC UNC not to mention actual Ivy League schools which is nuts the president of the Jefferson Council writes you will see from the chart below that UVA is the most expensive top 50 public university in America perhaps more amazingly the president writes a third and fourth year out-of-state undergraduate at UVA is charged more than his or her counterparts at Harvard University. An undergraduate first-year out-of-state student is paying $79,574 per year. $79,574 per year. An out-of-state third and fourth year student at UVA is paying $83,658 per year. A McIntyre School of Commerce, my brother, a McIntyre School of Commerce graduate, my dad, a McIntyre School of Commerce graduate, is now paying, if they're out of state, $93,022 per year.

We should think about the costs, the escalating costs to attend the University of Virginia and how it impacts not just what the Jefferson Council was saying, bloated payrolls and bloated overheads, but how it impacts Charlottesville and Albemarle County and how it radically changes the landscape of where you and I, Judah Wickauer, you and I, the viewer and listener, call home. When a third of your student body, one third, 33%, are out-of-state students, if a third of your student body is paying anywhere between $79,000 and $93,000,

yes, there's scholarship, yes, there's reduced tuition, but for the most part, these are the numbers here, this is going to have an impact on gentrifying the community. This is going to have an impact on escalating housing costs. This is going to have an impact on changing how Charlottesville and Alamaro County evolve from year to year. This is going to have an impact positively on an economy. You would think that if you're able to afford an $80,000, $93,000, $80,000 if you're a first year, $93,000 if you're a McIntyre School of Commerce tuition base, then you're going to have some disposable income to spend locally on the downtown mall, Midtown, the UVA corner, etc. But it's certainly going to drive the cost of overhead through the roof. The Jefferson Council is asking that the University of Virginia, in particular the Board of

Visitors, make reducing the cost to attend the University of Virginia one of its key priorities. Now Glenn Youngkin has 13 of 17 appointments on the Board of Visitors. Will this be one of the top items of focus for a completely new board of visitors? That's a topic I want to cover on today's show. I also want to talk on today's program, a Virginia professor calling the Trump assassination attempt stage theatrics, that topic in a matter of moments. Judah Wickauer, weave you back in the mix into this program. The cost to attend Princeton for an out-of-state student is $86,700. Harvard, $82,866. Duke,

$88,000 to attend Duke as an out-of-state student. But you have a school like North Carolina, who is often competing and contending with the University of Virginia with academic rankings in the various U.S. News and World Report hierarchy. UNC out-of-state is $60,000. The University of Florida, $45,000. University of Georgia, Athens, $49,000. So Virginia is significantly ahead of ACC, public school competitor, UNC, and significantly ahead of similar performing schools. Florida, $45,8, Wisconsin, 61,106, and Georgia, 49,708. Judah, I didn't mean to interrupt you there. And they make a note of the fact that

University of North Carolina has been ranked higher than UVA for the past several years and is over $20,000 less expensive. Why would someone choose a school that's not doing as well or is not as, what's the word, competitive for your child and yet is $20,000 more expensive? The Jefferson Council writes, the University of Virginia and its Board of Visitors must aggressively address the bloated administrative costs at UVA and slash expenses with a vengeance. The broadly defined middle class is being shut out since Access UVA Scholarship Aids stops at $125,000 family income. The median family income

in the Charlottesville metro area, according to HUD, $124,200 per family household. Access UVA scholarship aid stops at the $125,000 family income. A family that has a household income of $125,000, which is essentially the HUD median income in the Charlottesville metro area. But people coming from outside of Charlottesville are... We don't know where they're coming from, but they're not all going to be coming from areas doing as well

as Charlottesville. A very fair point. The point I was going to make was in-state student. Let's say you want to send your child, if you live in the Charlottesville area, your family in the Charlottesville area, your family in the Charlottesville area, there goes Sam Sanders, city manager, right there.

Looking sharp, Sam Sanders in a suit, nice button-down green shirt. You're living in the Charlottesville metro area, and you're at the HUD median income for a family of $124,200. Would a family at the median income level

in the Charlottesville metro area be able to afford to send a first-year student to UVA when the cost of in-state tuition at UVA, in-state, in-state, total cost to attend the University of Virginia is $39,494? You're looking at a third of the family's household income for a first year in Charlottesville to attend UVA,

the median HUD value. The McIntyre cost to attend in-state, $52,420. There's so much to unpack on this. Viewers and listeners, let us know your thoughts. There's the bloated payroll to unpack. There's the fact that it's more costly to attend the University of Virginia in some regards than Harvard, a private school.

UVA is a public school. There's the impact of gentrification in the community and what this kind of student body base does for changing the socioeconomic aspects of the Charlottesville metropolitan area. There's the homogenous nature that comes with this kind of student. If you want a truly diverse student body, discharging this kind of money translate into diversity. You have the payroll and the staff

for diversity, equity, and inclusion. Is that payroll and staff for diversity, equity, and inclusion translating into a student body that's diverse, equitable, and included? Hardly seems likely. Questions that we should have on this program. What else tickles your fancy on this topic?

I mean, if this is what we get with Youngkin's new appointees to the BOV, I think this is a good start if what I don't follow what you're saying there I'm well he recently appointed what five new he's got 13 appointments on the board of visitors Youngkin yeah

and if this is them if this is his team on the Board of Visitors. 13 of 17 are Yonkins. Starting to work, starting to try to make UVA the best school it can be. Seems like a good start. I think this is a great topic to force a discussion on and probably should have been discussed a long time before now. I've said so many times on this program that I don't recognize the university that I previously attended, that my dad attended, that my brother attended.

I've said on this program, I've seen Thomas Jefferson become villainized. The one sanctioned honor code become an afterthought. I've said on this program that the university experience has become a political battleground as opposed to an educational rite of passage. And if you want to put the next lower third, which I think fits well with this, we now have a UVA professor who on social media is publishing, is claiming that the Donald Trump shooting was staged theatrics. The professor has denied the legitimacy of the attempted assassination. And he posted on Twitter over the weekend that it was staged theatrics performed by the Secret Service and the president to garner votes. It's an assistant professor.

His name is, and I apologize for mispronouncing his name. His first name appears to be, is it Cetunya? S-E-T-H-U-N-Y-A. His last name, Mokoko, M-O-K-O-K-O. He said on Twitter that Trump's Secret Service purposely ignored eyewitnesses because Trump and the Secret Service staged theatrics to win idiot votes. He's an assistant professor at UVA, formerly a professor at Clemson. His biography at UVA states that his work specializes in teaching students to appreciate and value social justice rhetorics across media, to become rhetorically listening readers and viewers, to understand how global rhetoric shape and define agency and identification. I'll give you the lead on unpacking this story for our viewers and listeners, Judah.

Where do you want to go with this topic? I mean, where do we start? He's, I mean, the thing is he's not alone. There are a lot of people that think that this was staged. I don't know that I buy that the Secret Service is working with Trump to defraud the United States people. I feel like this would be such a gigantic secret to keep that there's no way they could... But, I don't know, it's a very strange situation. Anybody that's watched the news about it can see that it's odd. There have been people that have been putting together the videos of this guy

getting up onto the building, lining up his shot. They've tied the video of that with the video of Trump's speech with the video of this other... with a Secret Service sniper on the other building. And, I mean, a lot of it doesn't make sense, but it's so out there that you'd have to be crazy to try to... try to spin this as some grand conspiracy.

I'm sorry. And we've already talked about the fact that do we really think Trump would go in for having somebody shoot at his head as a stunt, not to mention murdering second lieutenant Hugh Del Pratt so this fool thinks someone in his right mind would stage a shooting with live rounds that can go wrong at any point and someone being killed others injured how is he a professor? What is he a professor of? This from Deep Throat. Academic freedom at a public university means you cannot fire this guy, but it should raise a serious question about hiring. Is UVA hiring the best? This from Kevin Higgins in Greenwood. Anyone that thinks that shooting with stage is insane,

but the fact a guy with a rifle could climb a shed 150 yards from a former president is the real question. There was no perimeter security. Why was that? This from Holly Foster. I'm glad I don't have any children or grandchildren to send to college at UVA or elsewhere. How are the younger generation going to be able to afford any college in the future? Those figures that we gave you are the total cost of attendance, not just tuition, total cost of attendance. I understand the concept of this guy's not tenured.

He's an assistant professor, by the way. He's not a tenured professor. I understand the concept of academic freedom. I understand the concept of being able to speak your mind. At some point, there's got to be some kind of

restraint from the employer. If you're working for a company there's got to be some kind of restraint from the employer. Yeah. If you're working for a company and you have a platform as a result of the company you're working for, your employer has a say in what you're saying or speaking. There is such thing as freedom of speech in our country, but with freedom of speech comes consequences. And to call it stage theatrics is a level of conspiracy theory that is not plausible or in

touch with reality. I said on yesterday's program, the question I have here, and I hope to God it is not a network of deeper lies or a spider web of added conspiracy, but the question I have is exactly what Kevin Higgins alluded to. How does a guy with a rifle able to get on a roof within line sight of maybe the most divisive man in the free world? And how does a guy with a rifle army crawl onto a roof within 150 yards of a former president who's running for current president when many people are at ground level screaming, he has a gun, he has a gun,

and nothing is done to prevent a shooting? Yeah. For me, the questions I have are, how did this guy, how was he able to get fire, ammunition, how was he able to get shots off? My theories, my conspiracies, my questions, however, are not in, this is a staged scenario. A staged scenario does not risk lives, does not use live ammunition, does not come within a millimeter of killing the person who is hypothetically staging the scenario. Right. Yeah, I know that we've collectively seen enough snipers on TV and in movies that I think there's a mistaken image or an idea His long, insane shots are par for the course, and pretty much anyone that's practiced their long-range rifle shots

can easily get off one of these, and I just don't think that's the case. The distance that he was at, there's just too much variance. There's too much... Margin of error. Yeah. There's too much margin of error. Exactly. That's what he's saying.

There's too much margin of error. You have... So here's the gist of today's program. And Neil Williamson makes a fantastic point, the president of the Free Enterprise Forum, that I'm going to get to in a matter of moments. The Jefferson Council highlights in a message from its president that a first-year out-of-state student is paying basically $80,000 a year to attend the University of Virginia.

Cost of attendance. An undergraduate UVA out-of-state student that is at the McIntyre School of Commerce is spending $93,000 per year to attend the University of Virginia. The Jefferson Council points to bloated payroll and unnecessary expenses associated with DEI efforts as the reason to charge students and their families this kind of money. Yeah, or at least that's keeping the university from toning back on their costs. And now you have a professor, an assistant professor, who specializes, according to his bio, in global rhetorics, shaping and defining agency and identification, a professor that teaches race,

rhetoric, and social justice, and writing about culture and society, an assistant professor who's pursuing tenure, utilizing his UVA-rooted platform to tell the world that what happened on Saturday was stage theatrics. Neil makes this point, which is a good one. The costs that you guys cited do not include interests for any students utilizing loans to pay for education. I play squash with a guy in the Darden School pursuing a master's in business. He's come out of the Darden School over a quarter million dollars, 260-some thousand dollars in debt at a student loan interest rate of 7%.

He's got student loans that are equivalent to a house that you can purchase in Lake Monticello right now at an interest rate that's equivalent to a house if you use the 30 year financing vehicle

in Lake Monticello right now he's got a job where he's working in Manhattan. In finance. That is paying him a base salary of a buck ten plus bonuses. Base salary, a buck ten plus bonuses. I said, well, you'd be able to pay that loan off quickly, right? He said, I'm getting an apartment with my girlfriend who's also working in finance.

She's working for Deloitte. Our rent on this apartment is about $5,000 a month. It's not a fancy apartment. I wouldn't imagine. Okay. He said, we had to put first month's rent down, last month's rent down, and security deposit down. $15,000. Pay for moving expenses. Pay for furniture. They're selling all their furniture to try to limit moving expenses and they're buying new furniture over there. We had to pay for

food and all these additional costs we didn't know. I said, so when do you think you're going to have this paid off? He goes, I really don't know. This is why student loan forgiveness is a thing. And I actually think it's a good thing in a lot of cases because it's not – this is not just, oh, we're sorry that you made a bad decision in going to school and we're paying off your college loan. This is for people who have been paying off their loans for 10 years. I think in all cases, they have paid more than the loan was worth and are continuing to be whittled down by the interest payments that just don't, you know, they can't get past the principal into the interest. And at some point, you've got to say, look, you can't just bleed students dry. And with something with UVA, being at the high cost that it is, man,

I can definitely understand forgiving someone's loans after they've paid off the, what, whatever, $95,000 and have been, you know, paying interest for, you know, an additional five years or whatever. One thing we haven't highlighted on the show, the bloated cost to attend the University of Virginia, where a third of your student body is paying, call it somewhere $85,000, $90,000 a year to attend? Yeah. What that does to Charlottesville and Alamaro. If you happen to own housing that caters to university students,

you have some of the top income producing residential housing in the city. You can charge $1,500, $1,750, $2,000 per bedroom. We're talking a monthly total. The student housing that's on West Main Street and the apartment towers, the standard, the flats, $1,500, $1,750 and up per month per bedroom. There is a waiting list to rent these apartments. A waiting list. Folks may make this comment. That student housing doesn't impact the surrounding community because it's the UVA bubble.

I would push back on that immediately. Whether we want to be honest with ourselves or not, that student housing is a barometer or a comp and that barometer and a comp has a trickle down market value impact on other housing in charlottesville now moral county if you see housing for students on 14th street on west main on jeff Park Avenue, on Shamrock Road, on Cleveland, in 10th and Page, on Rugby for $15,000, $17,000, $50,000, or $ Hills, you're going to price your investment property and your rental based on that comp. And when a third of your student body can afford 85 to 90,000 a year in total cost of attendance, that's going to have a radical impact on changing the cost of living in the city and the county. We're seeing that firsthand. Now, I should also highlight that's also going to strengthen the

economies of Charlottesville and Albemarle because you have deep-pocketed students with their parents' credit card that have money to spend. And one of the things that I've noticed since I attended the University of Virginia, 2000 to 2004 to now, is the student body is getting much deeper in its patronization of locally owned businesses. Never would we go to vineyards. Never would we leave the UVA bubble. Never would we go to downtown mall. When my buddies and I decided to venture to Miller's on the downtown mall to watch Agents of Good Roots play an acoustic set at Miller's, we were chastised by locals saying students are welcome here on the downtown mall. Now you see students all over the downtown mall, all over

West Main Street, all over the vineyards and breweries in Albemarle County. So if I'm being... I can't imagine someone telling anyone at a bar in Charlottesville that... They're not welcome here. Yeah. Yeah. It's just a different... It's a different world. It's a different place. And part of that is tied to the disposal income

of the student body. Holly Foster says that shooting situation and its many errors is what Jerry would call a cluster duck. Absolutely. Kevin Higgins says 150 yards, it does not get any easier

for the Secret Service and that sniper team. He says when Obama came here to campaign for Perry Yellow, 29 was shut down from the airport to downtown. And he said with Trump, some nut job was able to climb a shaft with a rifle while people were screaming he has a gun and the sniper team was told to stand down, period.

I was having that conversation with Jerry Ratcliffe before the show. I hope for America's sake that this isn't a greater or deeper spider web or network of conspiracy Vanessa Parkhill in Earliesville she says, no way Judah students and their families willingly go into debt for a degree they make a choice

many students choose community college and live at home to make that education more affordable. Some pay as they go. They may not put them at UVA, but they take responsibility for their own education. The same can be said about housing. Do the math. Someone buying a $4,000 house today with a 30-year mortgage is going to pay a whole lot more than by the time the loan is paid off down the road. She's pushing back on what you had to say. Tati Rios, first-time commenter, I think, says, I agree students make a choice,

but at the same time, no public servant should be making $300,000 to $500,000 and then not paying hardly any taxes. Is that a reference to what the president makes there, Tati Rios, who's watching on I Love SIVO? Offer a little more perspective on that, please. Care to respond to Vanessa Barkhill and her pushback on your commentary, Judah? Yeah, I understand what you're saying, but we're not talking about people that haven't yet paid off their loan. We're talking about, I mean, look, we're talking about people that are trying to go to

a good school and having to pay $80,000. And you take out a loan for that. And I think at some point you have to say the bank has made – when the bank has made their money back, if you're fine with the bank just continuing to drain people because of the interest, okay. But I think between – Have you seen the interest piece of your 30-year mortgage? Have I seen the interest piece of my 30-year mortgage? Yeah. I mean, yeah, I've seen it. What about it? What you're paying in interest on your house will be two to three times which the value of your house is.

Okay. That's how it works. All right. Fair enough. That's how it works. Okay. That's the point that she's making there. Yeah.

Now, I will say this. You come out a quarter million dollars in debt at a 7% interest rate, and you take a job that pays $50,000 to $75,000 a year. The return on investment on that quarter million dollars in debt at the 7% interest rate is never. It's never. If you're coming at a quarter million dollars in debt at a 7% interest rate, you need to have a job that's going to pay you six figures plus if you're going to get the ROI on your debt profile. I do not empathize or sympathize

with someone that comes out a quarter million dollars in debt at a 7 point interest rate and chooses to work a 50 or 60 or $70,000 job. That's their choice. You empathize with that person? To some extent, yeah. How? How?

Buying a house is buying a house is a very how do I put it it's not something you enter lightly but I think a lot of kids go to school without a good understanding of what they're getting themselves into of what it means to take on this kind of debt.

And, you know, I think some of the loans that these kids end up in are bordering on, if not actually predatory. And the response is, oh, just you should have known better. Keep paying the money for the rest of your life. The bank is we can argue it all day. I'll give you this.

It's the world we live in. An 18-year-old can come out a quarter million dollars in debt, $300,000 in debt at a 7% interest rate. But a 35, 40-year-old is going to have to give three years tax returns, 12 months pay statements. Show every financial document that's tied to their earning. And potentially, and I speak tongue-in-cheek here, give their firstborn child to get approval on a 30-year mortgage.

Yeah. To Judah's point, there is some predatory tendency there. But, but, this conversation has been in the narrative, in the news cycle, in the conversation for a long period of time, and should no longer be a surprise. People can't say, oh, I've smoked cigarettes all my life, I didn't know it caused lung cancer. Or I've drank too much all my life, now I have cirrhosis of the liver. I'm shocked, I didn't know it caused lung cancer. Or I've drank too much all my life, now I have cirrhosis of the liver. I'm shocked. I'm surprised. I went a quarter million dollars in debt.

I took a job as a... I did a major in art appreciation or art history, and the only job I could get was a $50,000 or $60,000 job. I'm never going to be able to pay off this quarter million dollars at 7% interest. It's going to haunt me forever. Yeah. Same categories. I smoke cigarettes all the time. I have lung cancer. Surprise is not an excuse.

You can make the argument that people make their own bed. You could also make the argument that the banks shouldn't be giving loans for any and every student taking whatever they want, taking intermediate basket weaving. So you think the bank should say, maybe you say this,

you say that the bank should say I'm not going to give you a quarter million dollars for you to finance four years of college unless you show me your degree is going to be in medicine or finance? No, the problem is the banks don't care.

The banks care about getting their money back. The banks care about getting as much money as possible. That's their business. That's the business they're in. Is it? Yeah. Is it the, is a bank's business to make as much money off of, off of people as possible? Because I thought, I thought that banks were for protecting our money. We're going to argue this around and around.

Don't the banks protect our money by hedging their risk with our money? I would argue they don't protect our money. The banks are loaning the money you have in their bank to students who want a four-year degree. And how they protect the money they have on file and their account, your account with you, is by loaning the money to this student for their four-year degree

at an interest rate they feel is going to keep your money safe and their stockholders happy. I'm not sure if I see that. Well, which part banks make a lot of risky risky moves and they're becoming more

in line with corporations than they are as institutions to to help us help protect our money. Kelly Jackson watching the program. Serial entrepreneur. 17 Panera Breads and launching a hot chicken brand in Northern Virginia currently. KJ should have a talk show on this network.

Says the bank is robbing these kids. If you're under 25, you should have to take a free class the bank offers to make sure they understand what the loans are and how that will affect them. Are we not in the point though, Kelly Jackson, where an 18-year-old knows if you smoke cigarettes, you could get lung cancer? Doesn't an 18-year-old know that if you come out a quarter million dollars in debt at a 7% or 8% interest rate, it's going to take you forever to pay off if you're a basket weaving major? No, 17 and 18 year olds don't understand compounded interest on average. I'm sorry.

I don't think that's the case. You're telling me a University of Virginia student incoming first year does not understand the concept of compounding interest, yet they're attending one of the most prestigious and most difficult institutions to get into in the entire world. They don't understand the concept of a loan with interest and paying back the loan over a set amortization schedule and a set term. You honestly think that even a... Jude, I understood that concept at 14, at 12.

Your dad's a CPA. Our son will understand that concept at 10. Okay. We let our son, our son wants to, is into beanie babies. Okay. He loves buying beanie babies at shenanigans. We lend him $5 to buy a beanie baby. He has to do work to get that $5 back,

to pay that $5 back to us. That could be taking out the trash, that could be putting his plate away, emptying the dishwasher. He's six. By the time he's seven or eight, he's going to understand the concept of paying back a loan. Neil Williamson says perhaps tuition should be lower.

That's the point the Jefferson Council is making. If you're just tuning into the program, the Jefferson Council on its website, and I'll tell you what, you know, I don't, everything the Jefferson Council publishes or pushes into the narrative, I'm not in a thousand percent agreement with, but I will give the Jefferson Council some props. They understand the concept of pushing the new cycle. And Bert Ellis, a man behind the Jefferson Council, say what you want about Razorblade,

he understands the concept of driving the new cycle and changing the narrative. He's on the Board of Visitors. He's behind the Jefferson Council. He's got Youngkin's ear. He's having squabbles and beef on the record with the rector, Robert Hardy.

He knows how to penetrate and stay in the news cycle. Neil's point is the point the council is making. They've got to figure out a way to lower tuition. Judah's point is these students have no idea what they're signing up for that's your point right yeah I think it's

none of the paying off do you have loans yeah I have loans who doesn't have loans I worked my way through school. Entirely? You didn't take out a single loan? No.

Wow. Okay. Worked at Ruby Tuesdays and Barracks Road, which is now the salad business. I think it's called Chopped. I worked through college, too. Busboy, waiter, and bartender. Worked throughout summer, all of winter break, all through school. Also did some entrepreneurial endeavors outside of working.

Sunny Loves Freddy on YouTube says, How are you letting your kids take out $250,000 in loads and you don't educate them? Sunny Loves Freddy, where are the parents in this equation? Why is it up to the bank to raise these kids? It's a point I want to make as well. You're also assuming that every parent of every student going to college knows these same things. And I know you actually believe that all adults

should understand how to read a contract. That's just not the case. This is a topic that came up on previous shows where you have highlighted, including, and I'm not trying to throw shade at you, you have highlighted on previous shows that there's many contracts that you have signed that you have not read.

Is that right? Everybody has. I mean, anytime you download an app that has a TOS that you've got to sign off on, who's reading all that? Downloading an app and signing a lease or a contract are two different things. Even if I were to sign...

Okay. But you do understand the fact that most people don't read lawyerese. It doesn't mean anything. I can read an entire contract. That doesn't mean that I comprehend everything that's put down there. And the same is true with most people. If you put a contract in front of them, they may be able to read through it, but that doesn't mean they understand all of the

ins and outs of the lawyerese that's in there. And it's written in lawyerese exactly so that somebody with an understanding can get one over. I mean, I don't mean this. But people that don't intimately understand lawyeries are often taken in by something that they don't fully understand. Okay. I'll push back on that, saying I read everything that I sign. I know you do. And if I don't understand what I'm signing, before I sign it, I ask somebody for help to help me understand it. That's fair. Okay. There's plenty of ways to figure out something that you don't understand. It's called asking somebody for help. You know what the worst question is?

The question that's not asked. There's no dumb questions except the question that's not asked. It's not what you always say, Jerry. You don't always like me asking questions. And we're talking about simple things, not contracts. I would encourage anyone who's signing a contract if they're uncertain about language and what they're signing to ask somebody for contracts. I would encourage anyone who's signing a contract, if they're uncertain about language

and what they're signing, to ask somebody for help. I agree. Vanessa pushes back on you. I'm sorry if you're qualified to attend UVA or an Ivy League or, frankly, any college. I hope you have the capacity to understand compound interest. Lots of carpenters and electricians

absolutely grasp the concept of math and compound interest. Tati Rios. This is a first-time commenter, Tati Rios. T-A-T-I-R-I-O-S. On the I Love Seville Facebook page. To be fair, students must have responsibility as well. I worked through college in restaurants and didn't get all As,

but I still had very little debt comparing to most people when I graduated. But then again, my parents helped a lot with funding, but I attended a public university, not an Ivy League school. Most students are dreaming when they first join a university that they think they'll be successful and make decent money when they graduate. It's true people don't read or think through the details. No wonder so many people lose their homes during financial crisis.

Sarah Hill Buchenski, if you don't understand a contract, don't sign it. 100%. 100%. Don't sign something you don't understand. Oftentimes, there's a class system. There's a class system there's a class system in this country because of

the decisions people have made to get to that point of their life. Someone that is willing to go a quarter million dollars in debt at a 7% interest rate to cover student tuition or the cost of attending a university and they choose to take

a job that is going to pay them $50,000 or $60,000 is making a decision that is going to position themselves a certain way for the rest of their lives. Here's a terrifying but very frank reality of life. You could probably count on two hands the decisions that determine much of your life. Who you marry, one of the most important, if not the most important. Buying a house and when you choose to buy a house, getting in student loan debt, and taking a job at $50,000 or $60,000 and coming out a quarter million at seven points, choosing where to work and how long to work there, and a handful of other decisions will determine your outcome in life. it's like six or ten decisions over a 60 to 80 year life expectancy

that will determine the outcome of so much. That's fair. Fair? Scary? Real? Real? Sonny loves Freddy on YouTube. I haven't gotten a student loan in a long time, but I have gotten a mortgage, and there's a cover sheet that very explicitly outlines the APY and the cost of the loan over the lifetime. And if you're letting a kid sign a contract

and you yourself don't understand it, at some point that's on you, parents. cost of the loan over the lifetime. And if you're letting a kid sign a contract and you yourself don't understand it, at some point that's on you, parents. I feel the same. Isn't it at some point, Judah, Darwinism? Is what Darwinism? Life. Isn't it at some point just survival of the fittest? Five 18-year-olds go to a university.

Two of the 18-year-olds choose to take a quarter million dollars of debt to finance their purchase at a 7% interest rate. Two of the 18-year-olds decide to work throughout their university experience to help offset the debt and come out with a much lower debt profile. One of the 18-year-olds says, I'm going to go to community college for two years, live with my parents, get above a 3.0,

3.5 GPA at PVCC, and transfer into UVA with next to no debt, and then I have two years remaining of overhead. Isn't that Darwinism? Somewhat. You don't think that's Darwinism? It's a very broad statement there. Conversation started for the cocktail party this weekend. If you're just tuning into the program, check out the article on the Jefferson Council,

jeffersoncouncil.com. The story got me thinking. It's the headline, it's the Jefferson Council, from the Jefferson Council President, massive expense reductions must be a priority for a new board of visitors. And then if you're just tuning into a program, there's a University of Virginia professor that has utilized this platform, an assistant professor that teaches diversity, equity, and inclusion through writing, who's called the Trump assassination attempt, stage theatrics to win votes.

And lastly, if you're just tuning into the program, the Smith family has sold their ownership of Afton Mountain Vineyards in Nelson. Tony and Elizabeth Smith, the parents of Hunter Smith, have sold Afton Mountain to a husband and wife duo, New York-based Brad and Yelena Dickerson. The sale went through in May. The Dickerson's, especially Brad Dickerson, heavy hitter. He's the former CEO of meal kit company Blue Apron and CFO of Under Armour. So you're talking C-suite at two big time companies. They own two other hotels in the area. They live in New York,

but they're not new to Virginia from a business standpoint. They've acquired now three businesses. They acquired the Iris Inn in the hills of Waynesboro in January of 2020. And then they purchased the Inn at Burley Hill in Lexington in November of 2023. Their Waynesboro Hotel is within a short drive, eight and a half miles, of Afton Mountain Vineyards. So the Smiths have divested themselves of ownership of Afton Mountain, and two New Yorkers have purchased the stately and beautiful vineyard that has sweeping views of Afton Mountain.

Any closing thoughts, Judah Wicker? Stay cool out there. Stay cool out there. It is... Read the contracts before you sign them. Yeah. Ask for help. Judah Wicker, Jerry Miller, The I Love Cable Show. So long, everybody. Thank you.