The I Love CVille Show With Jerry Miller! - Murder & Mayhem At Crozet Harris Teeter Day 2; Crozet Killer's Mother & Sister Release Statement

Episode Date: February 19, 2025

The I Love CVille Show headlines: Murder & Mayhem At Crozet Harris Teeter Day 2 Crozet Killer’s Mother & Sister Release Statement Watch/Listen To AlbCo Police Press Conference Broken System: Mental Health Issues & Guns Should Police Assess Mental Health Threats? Is Crozet Killer Being Martyred On Social Media? Dissect Local And National Media Coverage How Do We Honor The Dead And The Hero? Read Viewer & Listener Comments Live On-Air The I Love CVille Show airs live Monday – Friday from 12:30 pm – 1:30 pm on The I Love CVille Network. Watch and listen to The I Love CVille Show on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn, iTunes, Apple Podcast, YouTube, Spotify, Fountain, Amazon Music, Audible, Rumble and iLoveCVille.com.

Welcome to the I Love Seville show. My name is Jerry Miller. It the downtown mall, from the Charlottesville Police Department, from the courthouses of Albemarle County and the city of Charlottesville, from the heartbeat of a 300,000 person region, I look out my window and I see snow falling from the heavens to the earth, and what is this angelic and perfect and surreal and delicate downtown scenery, downtown vantage point. And I'm reminded while looking outside our studio window as passerbys are slipping and walking gingerly past our window and as cars slip and slide down a dangerous Market Street road, I realize how fragile life is yet again. And it reminds me, I asked my father

and my grandfather, who were my grandfather, my father still is, my grandfather has since passed, diligent followers of local news. I would say to him often, why do you read the newspaper with such close attention? You'd get answers like, I want to see what's in the news today. I want to see what happened last night with the ball game. I want to see how my favorite players are doing. Maybe it's the weather, which is fitting as the forecast over the last handful of days has been one of 22 inches and one of a light dusting. And we're probably going to collect somewhere between five and seven inches when this is all said and done. But oftentimes, my grandfather and my father would say, Jerry, when you get to our age, you pick up the newspaper to read the obituaries to see who has passed away that you know. And in 2025, the print version of the obituaries are social media and Facebook in

particular. And yesterday, an obituary of sorts, a eulogy of sorts, was published by the mother and sister of the alleged Crozet killer. And it was a commentary that really put in perspective the crisis we have in our hands when it comes to mental health, our system that is built to manage mental health, and the right to bear arms in our country. And I want to have the next 45 minutes to one hour here on the I Love Seville show pertain to what happened about less than 48 hours ago. By now you know a man, a Crozation, went to a shopping center where Harris Teeter was the anchor tenant with an arsenal at his disposal. And now we have more clarity, thanks to the mother and sister of the alleged Crozet killer, that his intentions were not one based in reason or vendetta or past beef, but instead his intentions were to bring murder and mayhem to the community he grew up within. This is the scariest of outcomes.

I said on yesterday's show, I hope that it was a domestic issue that led to these killings. And I said on yesterday's show, the worst case outcome would be someone that wanted to bring a rampage or a death toll of significant note to our community. And the terribly unfortunate turn of events, as we've gotten more clarity on this story, is we have a man who wanted to bring carnage to Crozet. On the show today, we have the press conference, the Albemarle County Police Department press conference. It's somewhere between eight and a half and nine minutes. We're going to play that press conference in totality. The police chief of Albemarle County, the colonel of Albemarle County, Sean Reeves, Judah, he offered some clarity on this terrible tragedy. And I want you, the viewer and listener,

to hear it from start to finish because I don't think many of you have. And I think when you hear it from the beginning of the press conference to the end, when a select few of local media ask Colonel Reeves some questions, I think you will gain some perspective. I think we will then transition, in fact, I know we will then transition into the statement

released yesterday by the mother and sister of Justin Barber. Then I want to highlight some comments that have come in on the I Love Seville network that I have found comments of merit. professional and news and respond and react, as I think you will find in the central Virginia market so far. I want to highlight Charlottesville Sanitary Supply for being a part of the show. We're proud to partner with the Vermillions. I am proud to partner with John and Andrew Vermillion and their business on East High Street. They have been here 60 plus years. And my hope is that we will see businesses like John and Andrew's at Charlottesville Sanitary Supply, other businesses like Martin's Hardware, like the IGA in Crozet, like Riverside, institutional businesses, the White Spot, Mickey Tavern, C&O, the Virginian restaurant, enjoy generations more of longevity in serving this community. And it's going to be up to us to make sure that happens, folks. Where you're not necessarily putting pennies over people.

Judah Wickauer with a studio camera and then a two-shot. These are the type of challenging shows, Judah, as you rotate the first two lower thirds on screen. Yesterday when I read the statement from the mother and daughter, I found myself, after reading the statement, empathizing with their position, feeling sorry for all who were involved, including the alleged Crozet killer. I felt sorrow for him. And I found myself navigating in emotional, a bag of emotions that I found myself almost martyring the Crozet killer

to the point where I was looking for reasons why he was not justified for this rampage or this bloodshed or this mayhem, but what led him to get on this path of bloodshed and mayhem. And then I woke up this morning and I said to myself, why am I feeling pity and sorrow for a man who chose to take other people's lives? Why am I feeling pity and sorrow for a man that had an arsenal of weapons at his disposal and clearly had the intent of killing as many people as possible. Why am I feeling sorry for a grown-ass person who on that day chose to go to a shopping center

filled with children and mommies and dad and grandparents, and people we see every day, and for no reason besides he felt on that giving morning, getting out of bed, that he wanted to kill some people and take some lives. And my emotion transitioned from martyr back to anger, back to this man tried to play god was a living breathing and walking devil on that day and the story the narrative of the story has shifted from grandmother dead, another man dead, a hero saving significant carnage from happening, to us feeling pity and sorrow for a man who grew up in a community

and was let down by said community because of mental health struggles. It is a, for lack of better phrase, and if you have little ears around you, you should use earmuffs right now. And I'm giving you a heads up that a four-letter word is coming. We are all navigating in Charlottesville and Albemarle County and Central Virginia the definition of a mindfuck. Less than 48 hours removed from one of the darkest days in Crozet's history,

there are many in our community that are feeling pity and sorrow for the man who had an arsenal at his disposal. And I'm going to ask these questions. Did the system really break down to the extent that carnage and bloodshed were a reality? Is it fair to ask law enforcement to be the judges,

the deciders of mental health, and whether someone who's struggling with mental health has the right to bear arms, to keep their arms. Is that really the role of police and law enforcement officers today? I'm going to ask you, the viewer and listener, the role of local media and national media and how this story is being covered. Why someone who takes their personal weapon and terminates someone else's life to keep further bloodshed from happening is not the front and center aspect of the story.

Why the narrative or the news cycle is shifting to martyrizing a killer. Why we're not paying more significant legacy to the bystanders that have fallen that are no longer with their families. We're also going to play the Albemarle County Police Department press conference, the audio and visual from Chief Colonel Reeves' press conference. We have it in totality, including the four or five questions that were asked post-press conference of Chief Reeves, Colonel Reeves. I'm going to read the statement from the mother and daughter, the mother and sister of Justin Barber. And I want anyone who's watching this show to understand the statement released by the mother and sister absolutely moved me.

But if you're not asking this question, was that statement released to deflect attention or change the narrative, then I think you're not being true to yourself and you are being attached or finding yourself drowning in the fact that it is such a localized story and so close to you. If this turn of events had happened in Georgia or Tennessee or Wyoming or Maine or Michigan, would you also be martyrizing the alleged Crozet killer, or would you be asking questions like,

how does this guy have an arsenal of guns? Why is the hero not being depicted in much more significance? Why are we talking about him in these lights as opposed to those that have fallen? Before we get to the press conference, which I think you have it ready to go, Judah Wickauer, your opinion is valued on the program. An open book for you to start with. Where would you like to begin? I mean, this is just an all-around tragedy, and I don't think that there's, there are ever going to be any easy answers in, in this, uh, in this story. Um, some people, for some people, maybe there will be, some people may have an easy time, uh, saying that, that the police failed or that the, uh, you know, the,

the mental health system failed or wasn't there to help this guy. And some people are going to blame this guy. And I think all of those have a grain of validity, but I don't know if there's any way that this could have been averted. There's an interesting line in the post from the mother and sister. And I think it, for me, gets to the heart of this entire

tragic affair. She says, Justin knew he needed help and was willing to take the proper steps to get it. Sadly, he didn't. And we don't know what happened between her not writing this but knowing that there was something wrong and knowing that he knew it and was willing to take steps to fix it, and this happening. Something terrible happened in this guy's mind. And some people are going to say the police should have jumped in and taken away his guns. Some people are going to say there should have been mental health safety nets in place for this guy.

You have to remember that we have personal rights. Somebody made this comment and read it that was very appropriate, and that's the fact that the family wasn't told off when asking to get help. They were told that they didn't have probable cause to incarcerate someone in a hospital against their will. Amen. Those are two very different things. It's an incredibly awful situation, but everyone has to follow the laws. That's what we agreed to as a society. And the family was told that the alleged Crozet killer had to break the law or bring harm

on someone else before they can intervene and take his guns away. And I don't think that was a statement saying, hey, we can't do anything about it until he goes out and does something like this. That's not what they were getting at. But the fact of the matter is you can't just, I can't, let's say I have a bone to pick with my next door neighbor. I can't just go to the cops and say that I think he's a danger and have the cops come and what, toss him in a white room. There are, as this guy said, we have to follow the laws because we agreed to them as a society. Bingo. And as a follow up to this story, the exposure piece when it comes to the police department. And anyone who watches this program knows Judah Wickower and I back the blue routinely on this show. and go out and protect people as my way to make money, and a lot of them make very little money at that.

I don't know what that is like. These folks are heroes. 99% of the time, absolute heroes. But are we about to be in a situation where those that were murdered may have some kind of legal path, lawsuit path? If, in fact, the mother and daughter went to law enforcement and says,

this man is a dangerous to society. He has guns at his disposal and are going to do something. They presented this, the mother and the daughter, the mother and the sister to law enforcement, according to their statement. He has guns. He is dangerous. He has mental health issues. Please intervene. And law enforcement responded by saying, until he is arrested for something or bringing harm to others, we can't take his guns away. Is that the opening stages of a lawsuit against Albemarle County, Virginia? Is that the opening stage of a lawsuit for the two that were killed in the Harris Teeter parking lot,

their family saying, you knew that this could happen and you did nothing. And then a follow-up question to that, viewers and listeners, a fair follow-up question. Is it really the role of law enforcement in 2025 to be the arbitrators of mental health and gun ownership? Right. Is it fair to ask a beat cop, a lieutenant, a sergeant, a captain, a colonel, an entry rank, a rookie, to say, oh, this man has serious mental health issues, bipolar, schizophrenia, whatever it is, you name it, and he has an arsenal at his disposal. I have to take that arsenal away his disposal. I have to take

that arsenal away from him. I have to arrest him. I have to intervene. Or is it up to law enforcement to enforce our rights, our constitution, as we know it in print, as our founding fathers put into play centuries ago. This is a... Earmuffs again. And I'm giving you warning if you have little people within earshot of what I'm going to say. This is a mindfuck.

I am feeling emotions in some ways that I have never felt before because of the proximity of this outcome to my family. Five, eight minutes away from where we live? A shopping center that my wife and I have patronized many times? Who thinks that when they go in to pick up some milk, a loaf of bread, some steaks, some potatoes, and some ice-cold IPAs, that when they walk out of the grocery store, they're going to get mowed down by someone they don't know who has an AR-15? And we still haven't talked about the role of AR-15s and guns.

And some people on the left are saying an AR-15 is not an assault rifle. Other people on the other side are saying, why in God's name would you need an AR-15 if you're not in the military or law enforcement? You see the layers to the onion of this story, viewers and listeners? And we're raw and real because it's just been 48 hours since it's happened. So we haven't had a moment to process. And I want to take this opportunity to help process the emotions I'm feeling. This show is selfishly about me and Judah as it is about you, the viewer

and listener. Maybe Judah, you're not part of it, but I'm going to utilize the next 45 minutes to help process these emotions as I talk my feelings out loud to help me navigate what's going on in my mind. And I'll tell you, what's going on in my mind and what's going on in my heart are two very different styles of emotions and reasoning. Because what's going on in my mind, in my brain, between my ears, is saying, this is the devil walking on earth. This is a man who chose to take people's lives that had friends and family. Grandma, gone before her time was come. What's going on in my mind is, thank God this guy came out of the grocery store, this law enforcement officer,

with his personal gun and shot and killed him. That's what's going on in my mind. Because I only see in my mind further carnage and bloodshed and death, like a Columbine or some of these school shootings that still ring devastatingly true in our minds. But what's going on in my heart is one of empathy. What's going on in my heart is, as a God-fearing person, how does God allow something like this to happen? As a God-fearing person, how do we birth someone that has such mental health

struggle that he is unwilling to play football despite being an enormous human being, having the body type of probably being a dominant football player for Steve Isaacs and Western Alamaro football or Ed Pierce and Western Alamaro football? This guy would have probably been an awesome offensive lineman or defensive lineman just because of sheer size alone. But he said, according to his sister and mother in that Facebook statement, I don't want to play football for fear of hurting people. At one time, this guy was as tender as a teddy bear.

And now, 48 hours ago, he carries an AR-15 and has an assault, an arsenal of other weapons, and kills people? How does God allow something like that to happen? That's what's going on in my heart. Two very different places of emotions and reasoning and thinking. We have the press conference,

and I encourage you, the viewer and listener, to watch and listen to this press conference from start to finish. I doubt many of you have seen this from start to finish. We are going to play it in totality. This is the press conference with Colonel Sean Reeves, the captain in charge of the investigation,

and a handful of questions that were asked afterward, including by talented courts and crime reporter Hall Spencer of the Daily Progress. This is about eight and a half minutes, folks, and then we're going to get back with the statement from the mother and sister and dissect it. Murder and mayhem in Crozet outside of a grocery store. Jesus.

Judah, three, two, one. All right, good morning and thank you for being here. I'm Logan Bogart and I'm the public Information Officer for the Albemarle County Police Department. We appreciate your patience as our officers and investigators worked diligently through yesterday afternoon and into this morning to gather all the facts regarding yesterday's shooting at Harris Teeter in Crozet. Today you will hear first from Colonel Sean Reeves, Chief of Police for the Albemarle County Police Department, followed by Captain Daryl Byers, Commander of the Criminal Investigations Division, who are joined by County Executive Jeff Richardson and Fire Chief Dan Eggleston. This remains an

active and ongoing investigation, so some details may be limited at this time, but following their remarks we will take some questions. I'll turn it over to Chief Reeves. Yesterday afternoon, a tragedy struck our community when a lone gunman opened fire in the parking lot of Harris Teeter and Crozet. My heart goes out to the families and loved ones of those who lost their lives in this senseless act of violence, as well as to the greater Crozet community. We owe an immense gratitude to an off-duty federal law enforcement professional who happened to be in the shopping center when the shooting occurred. This heroic individual selflessly placed themselves in harm's way to stop the gunman

and prevent further loss of life. Without their brave actions, there's no doubt the casualty count could have been much higher. There is one name you will not hear me mention today, the gunman responsible for these heinous acts. His name will be provided in the media packets following this press conference and will be released publicly, but I will not be recognizing his acts or his heinous deeds. I have respect for the privacy of the heroic law enforcement professional and because the Albemarle County Police Department is not seeking any type of criminal charges against them, I will also not be publicly releasing their name or the name of the federal agency they work for. I understand that our community has many questions and is seeking answers. We are too.

Perhaps the most pressing questions are why. Why did the shooter choose Harris Teeter? Why did he take the lives of two innocent people? In the coming days and weeks, our investigators will work tirelessly to answer these questions, though we may never find all the answers. Before I turn it over to Captain Darrell Byers, I would like to extend my gratitude to the following for their assistance. The Virginia State Police, career and volunteer units from Alamo County Fire Rescue,

Human Services Alternative Response Team, and Victim Witness Services, and to the healthcare professionals at UVA Hospital. Finally, we ask the media to respect the privacy of the families involved in this incident. On behalf of these families, I urge the media to be considerate and sensitive during this difficult time. Thank you and I'll now turn it over to Captain Byers. Thank You Colonel Reeves. As the Chief stated, this investigation is still very active. Our staff has worked diligently since yesterday afternoon to analyze surveillance footage,

speak with eyewitnesses, and collect forensic evidence at the scene. Our focus today is to provide an update on the sequence of events and the investigation. I want to begin by recapping a timeline of yesterday. On Monday, February 17th, at approximately 1.35 p.m., ACPD officers were dispatched to the Harris Teeter located at 545 Rafford Lane in Crozet. Multiple 911 callers reported shots fired in the parking lot. Officers arrived approximately five minutes later and discovered three adults suffering from gunshot wounds.

Two of those individuals were pronounced deceased at the scene, including the suspected shooter, who was shot by an off-duty law enforcement officer who was exiting the store. A third victim was transported to UVA in critical condition. Last night, the third victim succumbed to the injury sustained from the shooting. Based on the preliminary investigation, we believe that the shooter entered the Harris Teeter parking lot and fired a rifle at the first victim who was exiting the store. We have identified that victim as Peter L. Martin, 43 years old, from Crozet.

Martin was pronounced deceased at the scene. After shooting Martin, the shooter approached a second victim in their vehicle. That victim was identified as Diane G. Spangler, 68 years old, of Afton. Spangler was transported to the UVA Medical Center in critical condition and later succumbed before the off-duty federal agent who heard the gunfire and was exiting Harris Teeter engaged the shooter with their personal weapon. The shooter was pronounced deceased at the scene. The federal agent was uninjured in the shooting. The shooter did not have a criminal history but has had prior contact with law enforcement with the most recent being in January

2025. At this time, we do not know if the shooter, Martin, or Spangler had any affiliation to each other prior to the incident. We ask that anyone who was in the area of Harris Teeter at the time of the shooting and has not yet spoken with an investigator to please contact Detective Holmes at 296-5807 or Crime Stoppers at 434-977-4000. Even the smallest details may be helpful in our investigation. At this time we will take a few questions. Please state your name and affiliation before asking your question. Can you confirm the type of rifle that the shooter used?

And your name? Sarah, CBS 19. Yes, ma'am. It was an AR-15. Spencer, Daily Progress. Why don't you want to name even the agency or the gender of the person that Chief Reeves described as the hero? I can take that. Thank you for that question. For those of you that didn't hear, it's why I'm not naming the federal officer involved or the agency they work for. So it's my philosophy as Chief of Police, whenever we have an officer-involved shooting, that unless the officer is going to be charged criminally out of respect of that person's privacy and their family's privacy, that I'm not going to identify them. But as a follow-up, since you did identify the person as a hero, why not then hold them up as an example of a good guy with a gun or a good

woman? That question is for the individual if they want that. I'm not going to thrust that upon an individual and force them in the spotlight out of their comfort zone that they do not want to be publicly identified. Jay Hart, WINA, Charleston Media Group. So I guess to close the loop on this thing, for sure you're trying to find out whether these folks had affiliation with each other. At this point, we don't have a motive?

Correct. Right now, there is no clear indicator. That could change as the investigation progresses. But at this point in time, the case facts and evidence are pointing to an act of random act of violence. But again, that could change based on where any information that comes from the investigators. I'm sorry, you have one more question Jay? Yeah, if I could follow. Was there any indication of how much more was in this gun? I mean was this...

You did mention you could have saved more, but whether there's more ammunition in the gun, I mean, was this, you did mention you could have saved more, but was there more ammunition in the gun? I mean, what makes that statement not knowing that motive? Right. So just based on the fact of the firearm that was recovered, it was an AR-15 that was recovered. Our detectives are still executing search warrants, but the suspect's vehicle is present in plain view. There are additional firearms. The exact count of those firearms will be uncovered

during the search warrant, but that's what led us to make that statement. Alright, on VN1 and 29 News, my question is just you mentioned that the suspected gunman in this incident had had contact with law enforcement in January of 2025. Are you able to share what that contact was? Currently, we're not able to share that as we're using that as a part of the investigation just to kind of see where we, what beats us and it gives us some guidance as it relates to what happened yesterday. Okay. If there's nothing further, we thank you guys for coming today

and thank you for your time. Thank you. Thank you. I have so many questions from that press conference, so many questions. Now, it's important to emphasize this. That press conference took place yesterday, and it took place yesterday before the mother and the daughter, the mother and the sister, the mother and the sister of the alleged Crozet killer, before they released their statement on Facebook. The statement the mother and sister released on Facebook has without question been read and seen and has touched more people in central Virginia, in Albemarle County, and beyond than that press conference did. Furthermore, another important emphasis point, the press conference took place prior to the statement being released by the mother and sister. I know for a fact that the press

conference with Albemarle County Police Department would have had a different tune or different coverage points had the statement from the mother and sister been released prior or before the press conference. For example, we now know motive or lack thereof. This was a blood rampage wedding to happen. it was not someone with a vendetta or a personal beef with somebody at harris teeter or in this shopping center in crozet we also learned from that press conference ladies and gentlemen that clearly the alleged crozet killer had other weapons his near person to utilize if he runs out of ammunition or if the AR-15 malfunctions in some capacity. We also hear from Colonel Reeves why he's not naming the hero who utilized his personal weapon to kill the alleged Crozet killer and keep more bloodbath from happening. He said, if you want that name, it's up to the person

to say, this is me who did this. And Judah made the point yesterday, because if the hero, and it's a hero, hero, if the hero, if he was named, there will be some in this community or beyond that will find some reason to hate that person. And it's just the terrible nature of the world we live in today. They'll make it about gun rights, concealed weapons, gun ownership, something along those lines. A lot to unpack on this storyline. This is an important comment. I'm going to go to key viewers and listeners in our family. This one is from John Blair. I think you should hear this. John Blair is an attorney, one of the smartest people I know. He says, Jerry, I think people need to better understand mental health law and why the system failed is not really accurate. In order to temporary detention order someone or in order to

emergency custody order someone, law enforcement has to prove to a magistrate with probable cause that the person is likely, and all caps,, to cause harm to themselves or others. Please notice the use of all caps with LIKELY. It is absolutely ridiculous. These are John Blair's words. It is absolutely ridiculous to say that the system failed if the cops cannot meet that standard. No, when the police cannot meet that standard, it is completely and totally up to the family and friends to intervene and convince the person to get help.

Or let go of their weapons. Then John Blair says, and I absolutely commend and offer three cheers for Sean Reeves, and I am damn proud to have that man as chief of police for Albemarle County. Last night on my Facebook page, a man that I went to high school with and have known since childhood, who was at one time, he and I have since lost contact, and I hope he's watching this program right now, but was at one time an officer within the Richmond Police Department. His name is Chris Meade, a sensible and reasonable individual. He said something does not add up when the sister and the mother say that Justin, the alleged Crozet killer, knew he needed help and was willing to take the proper steps to get it. Yet she also says they tried to get an emergency custody order. ECOs, Chris Mead says, are only issued when the person in need of services refuses to

check themselves in voluntarily. Most people with family members that are willing to check themselves into the hospital for mental health reasons don't know what ECOs are. He adds, I cannot imagine what this family is going through, and they may be correct that the system failed him, at least to some extent, but they may also want to deflect some guilt away from themselves, which is a perfectly normal instinct. The rest of us will never know the whole truth. Amen. From Chris Mead right there. I know this man. I grew up with this man. A sensible individual.

Let's go to deep throat. Number one in the family. He says nearly every time there is a mass shooting we learn that the person had serious and evident mental problems. No exception here. Obviously we want to hear the Almaral County,

the ACPS side of the story, but from what the relatives of the shooter claim, again, they could be giving a biased account. The police were totally dismissive. Realize that we don't want a world where one person's word can lead to an ECO order on another person, but you would think that the police might pay the guy a visit

and see if he's insane. He dubs that a welfare check. Deep Throat also adds, what the police told him, assuming it is true, is wrong. You don't need to wait for him to harm someone or himself, but rather be a threat to himself or others. So he takes a different stance there. I'm not sure I caught that last part.

Ginny who? She says this, I completely understand why an ECO was not granted, but I would also like to know if the family pursued an ESRO. She also says kudos to the chief for letting the hero decide if they want their name out there. Even though they saved lives, they had to take one to do so, and that certainly is not easy. She adds, I feel horrible for this family, but let's also remember the Facebook post is their explanation of events. There are also records from authorities and any medical professionals he saw. We don't have a complete picture and need to let the investigation continue while we focus on the victims.

You can have sympathy for the family and want changes in how mental health is covered without making the focus the shooter and his past life. The focus should be those who needlessly lost their lives and how a good guy with a gun stopped further tragedy. Bingo. That's what I think. I can assure you that somewhere in a room in an Albemarle County office building, the county executive, some building, the county executive, some attorneys,

the police chief, and a couple of key other personnel are meeting, have met today, are meeting today about damage control and exposure control. If the family did, on the record,

with a paper trail, in January of this year, and Chief Reeves in the press conference said that there was a touch point with the alleged Crozet killer and Alamaro County Police in January of this year. That is like, dude, less than a month ago,

45 days ago, somewhere between 45, 49 days and less, right? He said in the press conference on the record, we had a touch point with the alleged Crozet killer. If less than 49 days ago, ladies and gentlemen, the family goes to the police and says, this man, our son, our brother, has an arsenal of weapons. He's saying this kind of commentary, and we fear what he will do to Crozet or any people that he encounters. Please take the guns away. If there is documentation on that, there is exposure there. There is exposure there. We live in a world where a woman got millions of dollars

from a fast food franchise because the franchise served her coffee that was too hot. That's the kind of world we live in. And I can assure you a conversation is happening. Today has already happened, will continue to happen most likely with Albemarle County and how it's going to limit legal exposure. And I can assure you there are, and maybe it is shade intended, maybe it is shade intended, but there are those air quotes, proverbial ambulance chasing attorneys that are going to try to reach out to the families of the victims and say, hey, if this is true and there's paper trail and documentation that the family told the police that this guy's got an arsenal of guns and he's going to kill some people, watch out for him, take the guns away, and nothing was done, that right there, someone's going to chase an opportunity. And that's just the nature of the world we live in. And that's another issue that I'm navigating here in my brain, not in my heart. My heart,

I'm struggling with, why does God allow this to happen? My heart, I'm struggling with, why is this young man who was afraid to play football because he's so big he would hurt other people, how did he get to the point where he's taking people's lives? What about this grandma who lost his life? This man that lost his life? What is the struggle mentally that this guy who's coming out of Harris Teeter with his groceries, who had the effing courage to run to gunfire. When you hear gunfire and you're at a grocery store, most people run away from gunfire, the sound of gunshots. This man ran to the sound of gunshots, pursued the danger, used his personal weapon to kill somebody. What is that man going

through mentally, man, woman. I want the opportunity to thank this person. I want the opportunity to cherish, to champion, to celebrate this person. I want the opportunity to buy him a drink,

to shake his hand, her hand, his hand, give him a hug, buy him a scotch. And this is a fair point. The point that's being made that the statement released by the sister and the mother was a statement used to help dictate or influence the narrative, we must consider that. It could be a statement that's also true to their heart and true to their feelings at the moment. But at the same time that you are true to your heart and true to your feelings at the moment, you could also be trying to determine the influence or the narrative or the media cycle,

the family legacy, the tarnishing of said legacy or the lack or the media cycle, the family legacy, the tarnishing of said legacy or the lack thereof. This is a damned if you do, damned if you don't storyline. It certainly doesn't fit anyone's desired narrative. For those who want there to be a definitive narrative in this story, I don't think you're going to get that. And those that do try to make this

fit a particular narrative are going to do I think an injustice to at least one or more of the parties in this story because it's just this isn't a deranged killer that was stopped by... This was a tragic... Something was happening with Justin. It's sad that he didn't get help, whether by himself or with the help of his family. It's sad that there wasn't enough evidence for the police to come in and take the guns away

or to put this guy in protective custody to start getting him help. The two people who are killed, they're not even the talk of the story anymore. No, sadly. How sad is that? The two people who are killed are not the talk of the story anymore, right? Albert Graves, his photo on screen, he lives in Crozet, knows Crozet inside and out. He says an AR-15 looks like a military grade weapon, but in reality, it's just a shotgun made to look like a military weapon. More specifically, it looks like a military AR-16.

He also adds, so a person with schizophrenia should be allowed to buy an AR-15 or any weapon is a complete failure of the system no matter how you paint that picture. Maybe we should question the law and maybe overhaul the law. He completely adds,

he, Albert Graves also adds, police admitted to have known the shooter and have had several interactions with him, but he had no criminal record. This screams mental health issues. He adds, it's mentally taxing for all the victim's family and the community as a whole. This is just sad all the way around. Yeah, I agree with some of that. I don't know that I fully agree with all of it. We don't know when his family became aware of his mental health issues. He's what, 28 years old? Who knows how long he's had those guns. It's not like there's a place on the forum to say that you have mental health problems,

and he may not have had them when he bought the guns. Okay. Am I wrong? You have a mother and a sister saying, we went to law enforcement and were scared and we reported him to law enforcement because he was a danger to himself and others. And you have a police chief in front of a microphone and cameras saying, in January of this year, we had an interaction with this man. Okay. And what is an incredibly litigious and opportunistic society,

Albemarle County should lawyer up. Okay. And I say that as someone who is proud to live in Albemarle County, commends and salutes Colonel Reeves and his department for representing the county extremely well, extremely well. It is a no-win situation that police are having to be the arbiters of the right to bear arms and how the right to bear arms, and how the right to bear arms interacts with the Venn diagram of mental health and schizophrenia and bipolar

and the dangers and collateral damage of said disease. No law enforcement officer has that kind of psychological training, pedigree, education, experience. And perhaps you attribute it to the system. But then you read what John Blair says and say, to say that this is a broken system is a travesty. And his comment, I think people need to better understand mental health law and why the system failed is not accurate. In order to TDO, temporary detention order, or ECO, emergency custody order anyone, John Blair says, law enforcement has to provide a magistrate with

probable cause that the person is likely to cause harm to themselves or others. That means a policeman has to be the arbiter of mental disease. That means a policeman has to determine whether someone is mentally fit to have guns despite our country saying we have the right to bear arms. That is a mindfuck of significant proportions. Okay. Which part do you not understand or disagree with? I mean, it's not like they are the ultimate arbiters. You mentioned the fact that there are courts involved. You mentioned we know the fact that in their statement

they say they brought their concerns to the police. It's not like there's just, it's not like there's one person that decides. The police officer has to prove to a magistrate that there's probable cause. So if somebody brings their concerns to the police, the police have to ask, is there evidence of this? Or do you just believe that this person is dangerous? Because you need evidence.

That's how our laws work. Imagine if, I'll go back to this, imagine if anybody could just go and place one of these orders. John Blair says, Judah, most magistrates, when confronted with someone with no criminal record who has not specifically threatened a person, will not issue an ECO. Right. I agree 100% with what John Blair said. This isn't the case of, oh, well, the system failed because they should have known that this guy was violent. No. What was the evidence that the family brought to the police that Justin was violent and that this could go horribly wrong.

We don't know. And so we can't expect the police to take random, somebody's word that someone else is violent and go and arrest them or go and take their guns away. I agree 100% with what John Blair said that's just not how things work warrior AG another reason why a mental health professional needs to be installed to the police department to have the right tools to do the correct job of mental evaluations not a police officer has no capacity to make those type of calls.

This comment was sent to me via direct message. It was a screenshot from an individual named Tricia Baker Cassell. And Tricia Baker Cassell left this comment on Facebook. And maybe it's time we stopped calling it social media, and it's just media. This story is being this murder and mayhem in Crozet is a

storyline that is being driven not through print, radio, and television. Not through press conferences with police where legacy media intends. Instead, the story is being driven on

Facebook and in Reddit and this show. Trisha Baker Castle posted on social media yesterday. I'm the niece of Diane who was killed at Harris Teeter. This is grandmother.

Our hearts are broken for all involved, including Justin's. I'm a psychologist. What a coincidence. That is what he was studying. That is what he was studying. That is what he studied. She adds this. I would love to hear more about him and his life. You are right.

The system is broken. My mom and I were discussing that very thing this morning. I'm the type of person who likes to receive as much information as possible to begin to heal. This is the niece of the murdered lady in the parking lot. Oof. And Albert Graves sends a photo to me via direct message who's commenting that he was there in the Teeter parking lot. And has snapped and sent a picture which I will show to Judah as opposed to putting on screen because it has dead bodies in the parking lot. Wow. So the man commenting on the show

sends a picture to us from the crime scene with two dead bodies in the picture. Marlene Jones Judah they don't need definitive evidence to have a conversation investigation there are steps before going to the magistrate where those steps followed Carol Thorpe says in my opinion Judah's statements are spot on Bill McChesney says speaking of media I have not heard any mention

of the passing of former Mayor Hoosier unfortunately for former Mayor Hoosier his passing is being dominated by overshadowed by what may be the darkest day in Crozet history

and Mayor Hoosier responsible for so much good including the downtown mall where this studio is right off of. We will continue this discussion. We're now 65 straight minutes on the I Love Seville show, long form content

where you can truly get into the you can truly get into what is going on in your brain and what is going on in your heart. And the older I've gotten and the more mature I've gotten, and this is a testament to my wife and having kids. Having kids and being married, and it changes you. And what's going on in my head today is so very different than what's going on in my heart. And I guess that dynamic is what makes each of us human. And there are some folks, like my wife, who leads with their heart. And there are other folks like me who lead with their head. And that's what makes us human. Angelic

and gorgeous Wednesday afternoon as snow snow show them trickles down in downtown Charlottesville, we, a community, are left

concerned and confused and seeking a calm for Crozet that was very present about 48 hours ago. We'll see you tomorrow, guys, at 1230. For Judah Wickower, I'm Jerry Miller. Thank you.