The I Love CVille Show With Jerry Miller! - Neil Williamson & Jerry Miller Were Live On “Real Talk With Keith Smith!"

Episode Date: September 27, 2024

Neil Williamson & Jerry Miller were live on “Real Talk With Keith Smith” powered by YES Realty Partners and Yonna Smith! Follow “Real Talk With Keith Smith” on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-i-love-cville-show-with-jerry-miller/id1473278344 Follow “Real Talk With Keith Smith” on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7vPYSxtueet3r8GHNboJs3 “Real Talk” airs every Wednesday and Friday from 10:15 am – 11 am on The I Love CVille Network! “Real Talk With Keith Smith” is presented by Charlottesville Settlement Company, LLC, El Mariachi Mexican Bar & Grill, Fincham & Associates, Inc., Free Enterprise Forum, Intrastate Service Co and YES Realty Partners.

Good Friday morning, guys. My name is Jerry Miller, and thank you kindly for joining us on Real Talk with Keith Smith. It's a pleasure to connect with you on the last day of the week. This is the last Friday of September in 2024. In fact, only one business day after this particular one left in September. The year is flying. When we return to week next week, we will have a Tuesday, which is the first of October, and it's the start of the fourth quarter and the holiday season here in Central Virginia. Real Talk with Keith Smith features our friend, Keith Smith, who is at a real estate conference in Phoenix, Arizona. We received a text from Keith this morning, the temperature up to 115 degrees. Quite a contrast

of what we have here in Charlottesville and Almarl and across Central Virginia. Have no fear, though. Neil Williamson is here. He's the president of the Free Enterprise Forum. He's our friend. He's an oracle of knowledge. We encourage all the viewers and listeners to please support the Free Enterprise Forum. He is oftentimes the only individual attending jurisdictional meetings across Central Virginia. Think about that, folks. Judah Wittkower, our director and producer. If you can go to the studio camera and then welcome Neil Williamson. We're very excited for today's program. My friend, you are live and on camera.

Good Friday morning to you. Happy Friday, Jerry. How are you doing? I'm well, and welcome to Real Talk Without Keith Smith. Without Keith Smith, yes sir, my friend. I will start the program with an open-ended question. I adapt to you when you are on this show. Where would you like to begin on this soggy Friday morning? Well, I think it's important to recognize, and you've talked a little bit about the joint meeting between the city council

and Albemarle County Board of Supervisors, which was a bit of a kumbaya love fest, but there were a couple of little things. I was one of three members of the public. The room was full of staff, but I was one of three members of the public at the meeting, and the city and county are doing a great deal together, but there were one or two little takeaways

and people looking at the glass half full or half empty. It was interesting, Jeff Richardson, who's the county executive of Albemarle, called out that two-thirds of UVA employees live in Charlottesville or Albemarle. Later in the meeting Michael Pruitt and then later Natalie Osharan called out that means one-third don't and are that is that by choice or by by by driving to qualify which is something or flying to qualify as Keith likes to say. And it's just an interesting you know the city

is smack dab in the middle of Albemarle County, 724 square miles less than 5% of its development area but the discussions that go on and there was a report from the city regarding the revenue sharing agreement

which is a 1982 agreement I compared it online to elephant insurance because right now you can't annex, and we haven't had any elephants. But that being said, the critique of the agreement was, well, why is this a forever agreement? Well, the pushback on that is, well, annexation was forever too. So you can't go back in time. And so what the city is doing now in the reporting and having this meeting, and hopefully meetings like it on an annual basis,

is promoting the things that they're working on together. And I think that's a net positive. Two things struck me. The first you just highlighted, the second you put on the radar in a comment section uh during the isle of seville show um vice mayor brian pinkston's comments about charlottesville and its state of funding if memory serves he said which you captured um and you found fascinating because that's why you put it in the comment section that the city was underfunded by 10 to 15 percent to accomplish the demands of that he sees of the public for public services that was what he said in the meeting he felt as though and i did find it

fascinating um as we're at this meeting talking about millions and millions of dollars that are going from Albemarle County to the city. Mr. Pinkston said that underfunded piece and we're getting, you know, I know it's hard to believe we've just entering the fourth quarter of the calendar year, but we're actually getting started on budget season for fiscal year 26. Ned Galloway often says this is where you see what your elected official is about during budget season. 10 to 15% caught some of our viewers and listeners on the show and left their mouth agape. I've often highlighted the spend nature of the city and how it impacts the socioeconomic status of citizens in the city we're feeling and you know just our household feeling it on every the death of a thousand cuts

whether it's the groceries the gas whether it's a you know just the inflationary nature of the world we live in and then we have an elected official who speaking of Mayor Wade Mayor Wade on W WINA said Brian Pinkston is running for re-election. So it seems like Councilor Pinkston, who has indicated the city is underfunded by 10 to 15 percent and who's going to potentially be running for another term, his third attempt at city council if he does this, is something that we should follow fairly closely. Your thoughts? I think it's important to recognize that elections matter. And there was a contested election at the primary level. And it is really better for our community when we have

true elections. I have yet to hear of anyone who's coming out to challenge incumbents. And I have yet to hear many incumbents say they're running, but I consider this holiday season the season when people will decide to run or not to run for public office. This is when your family's all together, and you're like, okay, you're planning out the year ahead, and you talk about these things, what you're thinking about, what you want to do, and I encourage folks, call me, email me, whatever. I talk to people all the time about various offices and appointed and elected so they have an understanding of what's really required and what they can expect. Do you think Mayor Wade chooses to run again?

I would never speak for Mayor Wade, but I believe he has done a very good job keeping things moving. And I would be surprised if he didn't. I believe he still enjoys the work. But I don't know what, I'm not close friends, so I don't know what else is going on in his life. And those things all matter. I would also be surprised if Mayor Wade does not run.

Viewers and listeners, we'll get to these comments here in a matter of moments. I have also be surprised if Mayor Wade does not run. Viewers and listeners, we'll get to these comments here in a matter of moments. I have some of my own first. Charlottesville and the Free Enterprise Forum, Almaro County, were highlighted on your website with a Whitney Houston reference. And I'm going to read what I found to be a pretty awesome first, second, and third paragraph of commentary from Sir Neil Williamson here. Quote from the Free Enterprise Forum, the headline is Whitney Houston and dark clouds on the housing horizon. As I consider the ill-conceived affordable housing mandates in Almarill County in Charlottesville, I can hear the, is it lil great Whitney Houston asking, how will I know?

When these extreme measures were adopted over our objections, the Free Enterprise Forum was told not to worry. This is a living document. We will change it if it does not work. That's where Whitney comes in. Considering the large number of projects already in the pipeline under the old rules, I fear elected officials will be lulled into a sense that everything is good as some affordable housing comes online over the next 60 months or so. Then the other shoe will drop. First, Neil, I want to highlight this.

As a guy that makes his living with words, you are a talented wordsmith and an extremely fantastic copywriter. I sincerely mean that. I'll get out of your way on this. Albemarle County, Charlottesville, housing affordability, and the red tape and mandates in place. Well, first off, I will say that post got a lot of attention. I bet it did. I was surprised at the number of people who really like Whitney Houston. I love Whitney Houston. I love Whitney Houston. But I posted that mid-morning, from Albemarle and chair of the regional housing

partnership, called out that post that had only been posted six hours prior. And to his credit, he said, well, I want people to know, if you have a project that doesn't pencil out under the current rules, bring it to us. And we'll consider it outside of the rules no one's done that yet and i i thought okay well first off thanks for reading the blog um and you can subscribe to the blog at free enterprise forum.org or free enterprise forum.wordpress.com but the uh the idea behind it is albemarle is requiring 20 of your product to be affordable to 60% area median income. Charlottesville is requiring 10% of your product, if you're over 10 units, to be affordable for 99 years. That's ridiculous.

The federal government, when it uses low-income tax credits, uses a 30-year horizon. The reason for that is that's a financing horizon. That also is kind of the life cycle for a housing product. Which you highlight in your analysis. Yes. And both of those things are creating an unusual tick in the market um the the idea that there are a number of projects i know going forward under nine units right now is kind of remarkable the number of projects that are moving forward under the new zoning code um but just under the requirement so they don't have

to deal with the affordable housing mandate i'm aware of one potential applicant that walked away. They were doing housing that would not allow for affordable housing to be in it. They looked at the buyout, and it was somewhere in the neighborhood of $7.7 million. And you add that to a pro forma that's probably pretty tight to begin with considering the cost of land, and it just doesn't pencil out, as they say. Sarah Hill Buchenski, welcome to the show. Jason Howard, Holly Foster, local TV station down with considering the cost of land and it just doesn't pencil out as they say uh sarah hill buchanski welcome to the show jason howard holly foster local tv station down the road watching you right here on real talk with keith smith keith smith and phoenix right now what is there one there's a project on barracks road behind the cvs and metal brook shopping center that is over

the 10 unit threshold um that that's over the 10-unit threshold. That's in the mix. There's the one we've covered closely in Lewis Mountain that's looking like it's going to be luxury townhomes of a six-count in a very affluent Antony neighborhood. I'm going to get to Carlton to get your take on PHA and Habitat there. Before I do, I want to talk about the living, breathing nature of the document. I think Brian Pinkston, those were his words in a council meeting.

What's council waiting for? Well, it's very difficult in, I go back to my college days where, as someone in my office said, you were using a quill. But in my college days studying rhetoric,

it's very difficult to prove the negative. And what we're trying to say is the units you want aren't coming. And they point and they're like, look, we've got stuff coming out of the ground right here. And so, yeah, that's today. We're looking over the horizon at these dark clouds. And I would love to be wrong, but I will tell you that based on the developers that I know

and that I work with, they're telling me it's very challenging to make the numbers work. Logan Wells, Claylow, welcome to the broadcast. Kevin Higgins, thank you for watching us. Cully Baggett's in the real estate game. Brittany Gray watching the program. We appreciate you. A lot of realt's in the real estate game. Brittany Gray watching the program. We appreciate you. A lot of real estate agents watching the program right now.

That's the Neil Williamson influence. Viewers and listeners, let us know your thoughts. Albert Graves, hello. Crozet, Charlottesville, Greenwood, Richmond, Louisa, Green, Fluvana on the show. Chad Wood, thank you for watching. I'll throw this to you here. The city is a... I've been here 24 years. You've been here longer than me. I don't recognize aspects of Charlottesville anymore. And that's

fine. I mean, any change is part of life. I'm seeing the city get involved with, as we've covered on High Street with that land by the Rivanna River, seeing the city get involved with the mobile home park at Carlton. I'm seeing the city and its leaders saying we need more housing affordability. I'm seeing AMI requirements for development that are 50% and 60% AMI. Well, the median household income, according to HUD, is $124,200. A 50% to 60% AMI is still pretty, you know, that's probably a middle-class family, lower middle-class family right there. We're not talking about folks that

are at the bottom end of the socioeconomic spectrum there. So I want to throw this to you here. When it applies to Charlottesville and its goals of truly creating more density with the new zoning ordinance, has anything materialized as we had as anyone predicted would happen well you may recall that um back when we were discussing the new zoning ordinance i said it would be an evolution not a revolution you did i highlighted other cities that had done this i actually went out to spokane and talked to their planning director and they had said you know it was really a they had 50 applications over the course of i think three years so it is not um we're not seeing this big solution but the potential is there if they got rid of the 99 years and perhaps

tweaked some other things, it probably would be better. But the numbers that they used are faulty. And so I don't, I think that's really the problem with proving the negative is having, you know, looking at a project that is being underwritten by donors in the city and saying we're building affordable housing yes but how are you doing it I had an event at the Charlottesville Area Association of Realtors where sunshine Mathon said you can't do affordable housing here without subsidy period and he's absolutely right and I was happy to have him say it that distinctly folks say well well you'll just take it out of the developers profit well people don it out of the developer's profit. What people

don't recognize is the developer is, generally speaking, not using cash to develop. They're using a bank, and the bank requires a certain percentage of profit in order to be acceptable to get a loan. And we're not competing locally with banks. This is nationwide. Many of the projects that you're seeing come out of the ground are being financed out of Texas and California because the rate of return is what they need. These are investors. And that's how the market works. And quite honestly, that's not understood widely by the general public or by the electeds. I don't think it's understood by the general public at all, and I think

very few electeds understand that as well. I completely agree with you. You made the point that outside the 99 years, other things need to be changed. What other elements, specifically? Specifically, I think the percentages, the 10% may be okay. I'm not certain. The numbers that they have for 50% can be a little lower than 10%. All of these deals have to be stacked.

You usually have to come forward with a low-income tax credit deal, which is a very competitive market, and often additional underwriting from either the city or the county. The neighborhood director of services, NDS position was filled recently. Yes. Out of Arlington. I'm very excited to see what she does. On her resume, she highlighted a stretch in Arlington that she helped improve from a quality of life standpoint.

One of the key elements in Arlington. I thought immediately of the downtown mall. What do you make of the NDS position being filled? She's being accounted, she's being tasked with managing the NZO in a lot of ways. Well, absolutely. That's the job of the NDS director. I'm encouraged.

I have not met her yet. But when the former NDS director, James Fries, was promoted to deputy city manager, I was thrilled for James and not happy for us because he did a fabulous job working the zoning ordinance through the process. I thought that he and I had several long conversations at various times about elements within that ordinance. And he's not going away. He will still have NDS as part of his portfolio. So that institutional knowledge will not go away. But Arlington is different than Charlottesville. And I didn't think of the downtown mall when they spoke of that. I was more focused on the idea that Arlington actually has metro

stations and has vibrant mass transit. So the ideas for transit really resonated for me when I heard Arlington. And I used to work in the Safeway building on Wilson Boulevard too. You viewers and listeners jump in here. You talk transit. Transit's been in the news. Regional Transit Authority's been in the news for how long? I mean forever? Forever.

Yeah, for as long as I've been here. Any pontification you want to provide on transit in the area? Sure. That was part of the discussion at city council and the board of supervisors joint meeting. And they've actually gone, Sean went with them, to Champaign, Illinois, that runs a good portion of their bus fleet on hydrogen. The city is committed to moving away from fossil fuels for their transit. They will buy their last diesel bus. I think it's 2025 they'll buy their last diesel bus the batteries are a problem for the amount of time it takes to charge hydrogen may

be the solution there's another group going next month to Champaign to ask some of the more detailed questions but one of the things that I have to shoot down right away, back when Dwayne Snow was on the Board of Supervisors, he had this idea about light rail to Crozet. And I had to tell him, that's a stupid idea. Okay, why didn't you like that idea? Well, because light rail doesn't work. Light rail is hugely expensive and fixed.

What a bus rapid transit, BRT, does work, because if you put it in the wrong place, you move it. So on Tuesday night, when from the other side of the aisle, B. Lapisto curtly mentioned light rail, I had to call her aside to the other side at the meeting and say, that's a stupid idea. And how did she respond? She said, oh, I'm thinking in the future, like 30, 40, 50 years. I said, it'll be a stupid idea in 50 years. I firmly believe I have traveled

the country looking at bad light rail. Heavy rail works in some cases, because of the existing infrastructure, but light rail does not, and bus rapid transit is a much better option. James Watson, hello. Carly Wagner, hello. Guys, thank you for watching the program. We've got a lot of people learning here from Neil Williamson. Georgia Gilmer, thank you for watching the program. The Regional Transit Authority, as long as I've been here, has been a topic of discussion. What does that look like

in a best-case scenario in your eyes? Sure. Well, the General Assembly allowed for an authority to be created and then gave it no power to tax. So you can create it, but you can't fund it. So what they're trying to do is create a funding mechanism by something. They're purposefully not saying gas tax, which is likely what it'll be. One of the downsides to gas tax is as you have more and more electric vehicles, that's diminishing. What you get, the money you get from gas tax is diminishing. So I'm curious to see what they do. It's amazing to me how far we've come in really just the last five years. Five years ago, Supervisor Diantha McKeel scolded me for using the word authority. This is a partnership.

This isn't an authority. It'll scare the city away if we say authority. Now we're saying authority. I think this is a natural progression. The idea that Ned Galloway has is to have be really regional

and have Green and Louisa and flu vanna involved which it should be right but right now the dollars will come and the programming will first come from Charlottesville and Albemarle he wants them to sign on and be partners and lobby because they need additional legislative authority in Richmond. And if Charlottesville and Albemarle go for something, there's one vision. If Charlottesville, Albemarle, Greene, Fluvanna, Louisa all go for the same one thing, it's a different vision. Supervisor Galloway, I think, is right on point.

As Charlottesville and Albemarle County become more expensive, the middle class, the working class, is being pushed away from Charlottesville and Albemarle County. And the regional transit authority, in a lot of ways, at least on paper, would most make sense for the folks that are being pushed away from the epicenter of employment. To do an authority without including Green and Fluvanna and Louisa and the surrounding counties is a disservice to the folks that would actually need the transportation. And who else do you need in that authority? Ask that question a different way.

So if you have all the localities, who's missing? Who is missing? The University of Virginia. There you go. Yeah, the University of Virginia. Is the University of Virginia willing to be a part of the discussion? The University of Virginia Vice President for Operations was at the meeting. Okay.

Not at the table, but at the meeting. I fully expect that they will be asked. They may or may not want to be a part of the authority. They may want something different. I think... But you're saying they should be a part of the authority because they're the largest employer in the area. And a lot of their... We learned in this meeting this past week, last week, that a third of University of Virginia employees, as you highlighted to everyone, are not living in Charlottesville or Albemarle County. Right. So they should be a part of it. And they have a bus service. Right. Why do we have three bus services? Well, the third being CAT running an Albemarle route. Right. So I think that is kind of the elephant in the room Champaign has a

college in their town and the college is a part of the transit program okay so let me ask you this this is fascinating to me Charlottesville is responsible for its roads right yes okay Charlottesville is responsible for and I'm talking the government here Charlottesville is responsible for upkeep and maintenance of his roads, and it's responsible for Charlottesville busing the kids to and from school. Yes. The city is. The county not responsible for its roads, right?

Correct. And the school system is responsible for busing the kids to and from school, not necessarily Albemarle County government, right? That is correct. Okay. So how would, and I'm just spitballing with you, if an authority that is going to be how would in a i'm just spitballing with you if an authority um that is going to be driving in a lot of ways a lot of people to the city the epicenter of

employment how is it going to navigate things like oh charlottesville is responsible for its roads this authority is doing a lot of wear and tear on the roads charlottesville is responsible for busking kids to and from school will the authority be busing the kids to and from school? Is Albemarle County then asked, we want our kids to be included in the authority to take this line item off the school budget, which I would imagine is extremely expensive? Frankly, they can't even find the bus drivers to drive the kids to and from school. Will Albemarle County say, hey, Charlottesville is getting this. We want this. How far does it go?

That is the question. I don't know. Those questions haven't been answered because, frankly, you don't have an authority and you don't have money for an authority. But I think those are the questions that I think they're going to be addressing. What does it look like? Who's involved? Where does it go? And what is the ridership like? Yeah, I love this kind of stuff. Absolutely fascinating. Who would lead the authority? Another structural question. Okay, okay.

How far are we away from having clarity on questions like this, do you think? What's your crystal ball say? My crystal ball says that the General Assembly has a short session this year, and it is election year. I don't anticipate this getting resolved this year. Because it's not a hot-button topic. It's not a hot-button topic, and there's not enough people ramped up about it. I could be wrong, but my guess is it'll be in the 26th session that the folks will get moving on this.

Okay, different topic for you. Andy Zeman, welcome to the broadcast. Viewers and listeners, this is fascinating discussion here. I was impressed with your digital courage. On Twitter or X, especially Charlottesville Twitter or Charlottesville X, it leans, and the Free Enterprise Forum is neutral from politics, it's center aisle.

But Twitter and Charlottesville leans left. I'll cut to the chase. It's extremely left, and it's leaning. Mike Pruitt, supervisor, Scottsville, Scottsville District, Albemarle County Board of Supervisors, he recently on Twitter called an out-of-market buyer of Cavalier Crossing, vulture capitalists instead of venture capitalists. They spent a little over $20 million to buy the Cav Crossing apartment complex, which is off Old Lynchburg Road, literally just over the city line. I mean,

literally over the city line. Maybe some of the last true affordable units rooms that were being rented not apartments in totality but individual bedrooms at an average of five hundred and sixty dollars per room and and a lot of folks are having their leases not renewed as this out-of-market buyer who sold a stake in a Norfolk apartment complex and then did a 1031 exchange to buy Cavalier Crossing, has said, we're going to convert this to luxury housing, up the amenities, up the look and feel, and then re-rent them at a much higher clip. Supervisor Pruitt, and I respected his chutzpah, I hope he hears this, and Judah, check that center screen, he said this. We have to keep letting,

we have to prevent vulture capitalists from out of the market from buying apartment complexes like this and displacing people that are, you know, basically a step away from houselessness. You then got into the mix on Twitter and caught some digital shrapnel in the process of doing that and said, all buyers have rights. Right. And I take great umbrage at folks who continually use

the term out-of-town buyer. Yep. Yep. Because they're a buyer. Yep. are some people at this table that weren't born here. And they choose to live here. You weren't born here either. No, I wasn't. Neither was Judah. Okay, all three of us. All three of us weren't born here. Yet we chose to make our life our biggest investment

in this community. And so, while throwing shade at someone who is making an investment and upgrading, probably more than just the microwave, Jerry, upgrading the units because the market will require it will then charge what the market will bear. Mr. Pruitt has, on a regular basis lately,

been using a new term, rent stabilization. Okay. Those of you not familiar with rent stabilization... that rent control it is rent okay so he's he's talking rent control which and and i'll i'll get out of your way here i'm vehemently opposed to rent control rent control well rent control always backfires what happens rent rent control you were going to outline this extremely well i I shouldn't have interrupted you here. Give us the nitty-gritty of why rent control causes more harm than good. Well, the challenge with rent control is there is most of the rent control and rent stabilization ideas are tied to CPI.

So you can increase rent according to inflation. You can't increase rent based upon life cycle of your appliances. So if you were a housing provider that had 30 apartments that were all the same vintage, guess what? Your HVACs are going to go about the same time. And you know when. This is the beauty of being an experienced person in that market. As a housing provider, you budget that into the rent over time, those capital investments. You know as a business real estate owner, you have to budget for various things that will happen. You may not want them to happen. We just had a tenant try to solve a water leak

in a kitchen sink by wrapping the pipe under the kitchen sink with a Food Lion shopping bag and thinking that would do the work. It did not. The leak then proceeded to go to the unit below ours, and then the damage was our responsibility. Yes. It was awesome. It was awesome. It was awesome. And it could have been predicted. Yeah. Because you know there are a lot of smart people that have done housing provision for a lot of years, and you can look and learn from these folks. Renting is a huge part of housing affordability, and people don't recognize that often enough. It is critically important that we have rental stock available, and it should be rented at what the market will bear. Folks don't really like that, but that's the idea behind capitalism, is market will bear and risk.

You take a risk when you let somebody live in your property. That's a risk. You do risk mitigation. You get first and last month's rent, but they're living there and they're wrapping pipes with food line bags. And that may not be the best thing for the property. So with, with supervisor Pruitt, um, he mentions, uh, rent stabilization, which is basically branding or, or repositioning rent control. He mentions out-of-town vulture capitalists. He got some momentum on Charlottesville Twitter. Is there

any other momentum happening that you're seeing elsewhere besides Charlottesville Twitter with what he's championing? I believe market there is a market in this market for that idea okay i push back on the idea because i have seen tenements because you don't have any money to invest in the product that you have why am i investing in it because i'm stuck with rent control i'm only getting inflation increases and I'm not going to be replacing the HVAC. I'm going to repair it and it's going to limp along until you leave and then I can have a new tenant. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well said. So I'll throw this to you here. Do we think that the Cav crossing situation was mismanaged? We had at the same time, actually before the Carleton Mobile Home Park was purchased or is, yeah, it's now under contract.

No, it's been purchased, right? With Piedmont Housing Alliance and Habitat for Humanity with a bridge loan from the city. I've been told that it was weeks, if not a short month or so before the owners of Cab Crossing were shopping around the deal that they wanted out. One of our important viewers and listeners of our talk show said that the city and the county should have done some kind of joint venture and gone after Cab Crossing and used that as its affordable housing or housing affordability centerpiece. Instead, it was purchased by these folks out of northern Virginia that are going to up the rent dramatically here. Was this whole situation mismanaged, do you think? Well, the free enterprise form doesn't take positions on projects, but it's an open market.

They had the opportunity. The idea was being shopped around. This is how markets work. And the idea that, well, shouldn't the city buy it? Well, or shouldn't the county buy it? Or shouldn't government buy it? Well, how much government housing should we have? That's a question. And how much do we want to be responsible for? And who's going to do that is it going to be the independent non-profits is it going to be the quasi-governmental uh housing authority i mean who's going to do that and what do we get when we take something off the tax rolls what happens

well then you have like you're underfunded by 10 or 15 percent what did you make of the Carlton Mobile Home Park deal? Again, at that meeting that I mentioned where Sunshine spoke, when that first came out as an idea, he gave it about a 2% chance of happening. In conversations with him... He said Piedmont and Habitat coming up with the money to beat the unknown $7 million offer, whoever that was from. And we still, I've seen emails sent to me where Councilor Snook was on the chain and offering his commentary. And he said, even us as counselors have seen nothing about that $7 million offer and don't even know if it exists.

But your question about what did I think of it, I think it's a microcosm of what the market is. Okay. For what Piedmont and Habitat paid, they can't leave trailers on there. Sure. Well, the trailers are going to stay for 36 months. Yes. For three years. Yes.

Okay. And then they're going to be doing the community engagement and revisioning, and they're going to non-displacement of the folks that are in the trailers. But it's got to change. And there will be market rate units that subsidize the other units. Okay. And is that for the best outcome of the city? Again, I don't take positions on projects.

Fair, fair. How about this question then? This is a question that Deep Throat has posed to us on I Love Seville. The area median income metric is a metric AMI that's tied to family household income of homeowners. It's family household income of everyone. But dominated by homeowners. Okay, so why don't we just take out anybody that works? Well, here's the point he made, and I'll get out of your way. And I see the point that you're going to make already here.

If you're using an AMI that's tied to predominantly homeowners, and it's 124,200, if you're going with a metric like the Woodard is with 501 Cherry Avenue, a 50 to 60% AMI for most of the 71 apartments they're bringing online across from Tonsler Park. He made the point that you're looking at somebody that's like a 60 to 70,000, and I'm just doing rough numbers here, 60, 70,000 and change household income. And then he makes the point, is the $60,000 to $70,000 number really someone that's on the financial margin? Or is this just what's best for the developer with driving rent rules? Well, the idea, while I believe the AMI required is too low, is who...

You think the AMI required there is too low? Yeah, I think that you would have better product if we focused on workforce housing that looked at 70-80% AMI because you're going to get better product, you're going to get more product. Trying to make it work as this project is at 50% is very difficult

and requires those additional subsidies. So I think the AMI is a reasonable, rational, objective metric. Whether it's the right metric, somebody else can decide that. It's something that's used across the nation. And it's for everybody. It's not just homeowners. It's for everybody. Now, part of the problem that I see, if you're sitting out in Louisa and you're working at the Zions Arby's,

you may not make as much as if you're working at the Charlottesville Arby's. So there's differences, but they have to use that same AMI because they're in the MSA, Metropolitan Statistical Area. Fascinating here. So the Woodard project is 71 apartments, studios, two bedrooms, and three bedrooms. $50 million is the estimate right now for that project. It's going to have a 6,000 to 7,000 square foot grocery store shell, and it's going to have a home for the Music Resource Center, a fantastic nonprofit. This is folks, if you're not following this, in the old location

of Kim's Market, the IGA across from Tonsler Park. Basically the gateway to Fifeville. The gateway to Fifeville. The entrance to Fifeville. Open-ended before I start going on with specific questions here. What do you make of this project? What do you make of the community response to the project as well? Well, I have to go back probably 10 or 15 years. I walked that neighborhood with the Charlottesville Planning Commission in an open meeting. We had a meeting that was a walking meeting. Okay. And I think that some of the visions that they had in that meeting are coming to pass okay and some of them have not yet come to pass okay i think the idea of the new

zoning ordinance is to try and provide the framework to make those things happen okay i don't have an opinion about this specific project um but i i do think that the uh the community has been engaged and i think that the developer is working with the community to try and provide the amenities that the community says it wants. Okay. The community says it wants a grocery store. Anthony Woodard, now running the company, has said, we will give you what you want.

It's going to cost us $3 million, this grocery store, and we will provide a shell. We're not going to outfit it. We're not going to build it out. We're going to provide a shell. And whoever takes this grocery store can either buy the shell from us or they can lease the shell from us. And he straight up said on the record, and I appreciated his straightforwardness in Tubbs' reporting in the CVO Weekly. He straight up said on the record, whoever rents this from us is going to pay rent higher than market rate, higher than market rate for the 6,000 to 7,000 square feet. And he made the point, which is a point that you have made, if you guys want apartments tied to AMI, and if a good percentage of those apartments are going to be below 60% AMI, then I have to figure out how this is going to work,

and I have to rent the grocery store at a higher clip than market would justify here. I'll get out of your way on that topic right there, and then I'll respond to your commentary. Well, I think the desire for a grocery store is real. I can't say whether the need is real. That's what markets determine. And the fact that

they're building a shell is really just they don't build grocery stores I mean there's a whole that's how it's done there's a whole niche all they do is grocery stores and so I think that it's an interesting way to try and achieve the goals

set down by the community but I also think that the challenges for that store will not be insignificant. But that's true of any business. Okay. Some businesses have less challenges when they start than others though. And those challenges are pretty much what allows a business to either fail or succeed. 10 apartments of the 71 are at 30% AMI. 30% AMI, folks. Eight of the apartments are at 40% AMI. 18 of the 71 apartments at 50.

And 35 at 60% AMI, 18 of the 71 apartments at 50, and 35 at 60% AMI. Again, the area median income, $124,200, according to HUD in 2023. You may not want to touch this here. I'll ask it anyway without the conversation of the grocery store there's a 71 unit apartment project in a historically marginalized neighborhood even make it out of the conversation phase in today's Charlottesville climate? I think there's no way to know that. Okay. That's fair. Are there any comparisons that could be made with what happened with Mr. Henry in Stony Point on Preston with his phase of apartment development that was, you know, community outcry pretty much either slowed or crushed it?

I, again, not being in favor or opposed to any project, I think every project must stand on its own merit and must have, must deal with the community that it is growing into. Okay. Okay. All right. Then let me try this. I'll try it this way. Cherry Avenue is an incredibly important stretch in the city, and it's underperforming right now. And we seem to have this, like, we seem to have varying perspectives of what Cherry should be. And one of those perspectives is UVA.

And UVA is clearly expanding from the health system in the hospital and what it wants academic-wise and administration-wise down Cherry. We're seeing that clearly. They own a good chunk, right? They own the mansion over there on Cherry, right? Where is it going to turn into potentially a child care center for team members at the University of Virginia. We also have the Woodard family that owns the Cherry Avenue Shopping Center and the vacant lot across from the Cherry Avenue Shopping Center and maybe one of the trophy,

I mean, those two are trophy properties. The other trophy property would be the Kim's market and then you have the needs of the neighborhood the ones of the neighborhood then you have maybe a fourth perspective and the fourth perspective is folks moving to the community that are targeting Fifeville and 10th and Page maybe Woolen Mills because they're the last bastions of affordability and they're buying properties tearing them down and rebuilding structures up that are much more expensive then I guess you have a fifth perspective what the city of Charlottesville and what elected officials won on behalf of the folks that put them into office here this just is is this like a fishbowl of of of conflicting wants cherry the the you you call it underperforming i prefer to suggest that it's a a part of the um kaleidoscope of the charlottesville market okay

and there's a need for a variety of housing products there's a need for a variety of housing products. Okay. And a need for a variety of housing price points. Okay. That's for the market. That being said, property owners have rights. Okay. If I buy a piece of property and it's zoned appropriately, I have a right to develop that

property to the best of my ability and what I can put together. They have to work with ridiculous, at times, demands from government. But that being said, I still retain... You're saying this project at 501 does? I'm saying that any project anywhere must meet government guidelines. Okay, okay. And as Keith is wont to say, 25% of the cost of housing

is red tape. Some of that red tape is deserved and we need to have, but I guarantee some of it could be avoided. This question, does Neil think that the University of Virginia has been a good steward of the community? I will say

that the University of Virginia in the last 10 years has dramatically changed its position of the community? I will say that the University of Virginia in the last 10 years has dramatically changed its position in the community, town and gown. Jim Ryan's presidency has shown a real desire to be a part of the solutions, not just a part of the economic engine. Okay. Can I push back on that at all? It has made commitments to trying to create housing affordability, UVA. Have those commitments been materialized?

We have three specific projects that are in different stages underway. The first of the projects is now they have a permit in. So they're moving forward rather quickly. This was the topic of the discussion that we had

at CAR. We had Pace Lockney as well as from Piedmont Housing Alliance. We had Sunshine Mathon., as well as from Piedmont Housing Alliance. We had Sunshine Mathon. We also had someone from Preservation of Affordable Housing who's managing the other project. The third project is up at North Fork, and that really hasn't even gotten to the visioning stage yet. So I would say they have made a commitment to between 1,000 and 1,500 affordable homes.

I continue to see progress, not speedy progress because development is hard, but progress on all three projects. I like that. I can give you that. What am I... I learned a ton

of stuff from you. Sunshine, I will never butcher your last name again. It's Matha, okay? I keep calling him Matha. The guy who butchers the names the most in this town might be yours truly. What are items in the hopper that should be on our radar that we're not talking about?

Stuff from the notebook that, like, you know, the 10% to 15% comment that Brian Pinkston made about the city being underfunded. Neil, I was blown away by that. Other stuff like that, the tidbits of the notebook that we love. At a Rivanna Water and Sewer Authority meeting last month, I was not able to make this month because I had a conflict. Last month, it was revealed that Crozet is going to run out of water

sooner than later. A few people have picked up on it in the media, and they need to solve that problem. But there are some that say, let's run out of water. That'd be great. I'm a big believer in a 50-year water supply plan. Why would people want to run out of water? Is it to impede development?

There you go. Yeah. Using water as a growth control. That's terrifying. As I drive in each morning, I look to my right on 29 and I see a reservoir, the South Fork Rivanna, which was built the year I was born and it provided more water than the community needed

at the time. That's looking forward. At times, elected officials have to look forward. We're seeing it in Greene County with their water supply plan right now. People have to look forward and figure out how to fund it. Those are critical things that are going on in our community just below the surface and it is going to be fascinating to watch. Is there a local

jurisdiction that you see running most efficiently or one you want to champion or something that you want to highlight of it that it's doing maybe that the others are not? I think that Charlottesville and Albemarle are both, to steal a phrase, are bringing boring government back. I think their leadership tends, their staff leadership tends to be more servant leaderhood. They're not in it to promote themselves and that ends up bringing people forward. We just saw a new communications

director come forward that worked her way through the staff liaison. We saw a new EDA director who worked her way through 17 years I think in the county. I think that bodes well for those long-term employees and that retaining that institutional knowledge. That being said, I also like it when people like James Freeze comes from

somewhere else. And somewhere else is just as unique as us, and we can learn from them. That's part of the reason I think we don't have Keith here today. He's learning from people in the baker's oven. You know, I think that it is important to keep our eyes open and to continually be lifelong learners and remembering the Pocahontas rule. And that is you can't step in the same river twice. Williamson, that was awesome. The Pocahontas rule.

We're going to steal that right there. Close with ways that we can support you and maybe some content that you have in the hopper at the Freedom Price Forum. You know, he and I, before every show, go to your website and look for show topic ideas. Every show we do. I appreciate that.

And I think that you can support the Free Enterprise Forum by clicking on the Donate button right on the Free Enterprise Forum website. You can give online. We need money. It's one of the things that you do as a nonprofit and I'm really bad at is fundraise. I have to generate about $70,000 every year, and come January it becomes zero again. So it is an uphill battle to do. I am a huge believer in business and property rights, even property rights of people that I don't like.

And that's something that I will champion for all my days. I'm also a big believer in grocery stores. And I think Jerry knows a great deal about squash, but I don't think he knows how to pick out a squash. So I really do think that businesses are the heartbeat of this community. Same. I do too. You know I do that. You know I do that. And I would love the grocery store on Cherry to succeed. Just don't see the writing on the wall. That's,

you know, and I, and I, we're at the planning stage of this process. And I think at the early stage of this, there's so much opportunity to mold the clay in anything we want. Well, just go up to Rio road right now and look at the Sears building. Yeah. What's that? That's creative destruction. Okay. The market change, destruction. I love that. The market changed. Yeah. Now you have a Home Depot going in there. How many years have people been begging for a Home Depot? A long, long time.

In addition, and meanwhile, to your grocery store change, Brown's Hardware is doing great. Yeah. I mean. You're talking Martin's? Martin's Hardware is doing great. Yeah. And since 1868, selling gas grills. Yeah. Martin's. Martin's is doing great. And since 1868, selling gas grills. I mean, you know, I do believe that there is a niche for every one of these businesses if they pivot to the right place. creating an environment where businesses can survive and thrive and provide employment and

purpose for employees is critically important. Well said. Neil Williamson, guys, president, Free Enterprise Forum online. Just Google Free Enterprise Forum. We go to freeenterpriseforum.wordpress.com. The content is fantastic. His coverage of what's happening locally is something we crave. And frankly, without Neil and without guys like Sean, I just don't think this kind of coverage would exist in central Virginia, which is kind of crazy because of the sophisticated nature of central Virginia. But Neil and Sean are leading the charge, folks. And we're just offering commentary on a lot of the coverage that they're providing on their websites. We'll talk on the I Love Seville show today about a 10-unit former hotel

that is now on the market on Ivy Road. Ladies and gentlemen, a $3,250,000 ask for the Ivy Cottages in such a fantastic location fresh to market um for neil williamson for judah wickhower this is real talk with keith smith keith smith is in phoenix arizona at a real estate conference and is back next week so long everybody and take care God bless you.