The I Love CVille Show With Jerry Miller! - The Kyle Miller Show: Stephen Rutherford & Michael Lally, Five Star Painting, Joined Kyle Miller

Episode Date: May 2, 2024

Stephen Rutherford & Michael Lally, Co-Owners of Five Star Painting, joined Kyle Miller live on The Kyle Miller Show! The Kyle Miller Show airs live Thursday from 2:15 pm – 3 pm on The I Love CVille Network. Watch and listen to The Kyle Miller Show on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn, iTunes, Apple Podcast, YouTube, Spotify, Fountain, Amazon Music, Audible and iLoveCVille.com.

Welcome everybody to the show. I'm your host Kyle Miller and we're here today to share the stories of people who are doing great things within the Charlottesville market and surrounding areas, creating their lives, helping others' lives improve, and just making it happen in life and business in general. So today, our guests are owners of Five Star Painting, Michael Lally and Stephen Rutherford. Welcome to the show, guys. Thanks for having us. Thank you. Awesome.

Hey, so, Stephen, I met you back at a Young Entrepreneurs Network, right? Yes, sir. About a year ago. And you guys had just gotten the business started, right? You had just started working the business. Correct. And so here we are a year later. I love this, like, how'd it go? How did the first year of business go for you guys? Yeah, first year was solid. You know, we hit the ground running. We put about three or four

months of intensive study into what we were going to do and how we were going to approach the business. And when February of last year hit, we hit the ground running. We were ready to go. So it was a solid start. We had most of our cornerstones in place, if you will. So, yeah, it was a good year. Nice.

And so, Michael, you want to add to that? No, I think, you know, the Steven, what he's saying, getting everything going, licensing, all that stuff set up was getting through all that. But once all that stuff was done and work actually started, we do what we know what we do. Right. You guys just didn't all of a sudden just decide to create a painting company, right? You guys have been in the business, in the painting world for how many years? Yeah, over 30 combined.

Over 30 years combined. So that's really a long time to understand. And you guys worked for Sherman Williams, right? Yeah. So you guys had, you know what paint's used for what. You know where it goes. You know applications and all that kind of stuff. So I'm sure it was kind of a little easier for you to kind of get into the business and go, boom.

Yes and no, I think. The entrepreneurial side was definitely new to us, coming from the W2 world. Right. We knew the general setup for everybody and how things operated, but I think until you get into it and you go through that first year, you see you have some of those trials and tribulations

and how you deal with it it really kind of that's when you really find out my my favorite quote my favorite quotes by like mike tyson he goes everybody's got a plan until they get punched in the face and that is business right that is absolute business it's like i'm gonna do this it's gonna go xyz this is exactly how to do it and you get into into it and it doesn't do it at all. And you're like, you've got to shift. You've got to figure out what's working, what's not working, how to expand pitfalls, making sure clients are happy and all that. Exactly, yeah.

Yeah, managing the budgets, managing the crews' expectations from beginning to end, really. Cool. from beginning to end, really. But yeah, no, it was, in all those regards, a successful year. All customers were happy. All crews were happy. Stephen and I could continue to pay all of our bills. Things continued to progress and grow, too. For all those young entrepreneurs out there wanting to go out there and do stuff, sometimes it takes time to build stuff, right?

Yeah. The first year, we have all these aspirations of, oh, we're going to take our business. It's going to be X, Y, Z. It's going to be so big. And we have really inflated thoughts of where we could be in the first year. But by the time – and then so people have really high hopes for that. And then three to five years, when we start placing out goals, we can't get big enough because you're getting ready to hit your second year.

You've already got a backlog of work coming, right? And then it's just going to cascade over. You're going to get more work. You're going to get more referrals. You're going to get more, more, more. And with more comes more headaches and hassles and things you got to manage and all that kind of stuff as well yeah but i mean look out you know yeah well i mean and that's i it with that growth different kinds of challenges

um i do think that you know coming from that previous world we do have experience in dealing with that growth. Employee management as we grow, bring on the right team. Those will probably be the biggest decisions we make over the next couple of years. And when you say bring on the right team, what do you mean by that? A good fit, good culture fit, understands what we're trying to do for the customers, what we're trying to bring to the table, what our expectations are, and really just somebody who's going to come in, and in the different roles, if it's a salesperson, somebody who's coming in and selling, but not selling just to sell, selling to meet the customer's expectations

and what they want for the projects. And at the same time, if you have an operations guy coming in, what are the expectations on the job? Is he going to manage it? Is he setting up those processes and getting all that stuff in place? It's kind of what we're working on now. Actually, it started last year. We would have conversations about this process

has got to get cleaned up. We need to figure out a better way to communicate this or streamline that. It's an everyday thing. When something happens, you've got to keep it front of mind, make a note, make sure that you're going to address it, and have a plan. Whatever didn't come down, what's plan B? What's plan C? What do you guys specialize in? Are you more residential commercial initially we were more residential right now but if we had both worked for another contractor in the year the area before this and a lot of that stuff was commercial like commercial stuff so we've started dipping our toes back into that getting

more involved with like commercial stuff, property management, renovations, things like that, where we can drywall on, come in and help, exteriors, carpentry, and painting. So with the five-star, are you guys just painting, or what other services do you guys have? We're painting and adjacent, I would say. Okay. Everything that comes with it, you know, I mean, you would be walking away from a lot of work if you are not replacing the five pieces of siding that need to be replaced or the rotten soffit or, you know, repairing the drywall inside.

So having team members that are capable of doing that at a high level is definitely a must yeah and to even to give you a better product on the finish on the paint exactly you know paints and paint is it's not necessarily it's all in the prep work yeah right yeah correct yeah it took the words right out of my mouth yeah i mean it really it really is because i we we just finished one uh it was you know interior stairwells metal stair rails uh and the the crew had gone through and what they thought prep was good yeah um we walked it and you know first or second day point out what's wrong with it, have the conversation. And then at the end of the job, essentially, crew was not fully believing that that prep needed to take place.

We, of course, pushed and made sure it happened. And then at the end of the day, it costs the crew a little bit of time to have to go back, reprep that stuff after they put the coating on and see exactly what we're talking about. Right. Where we knew once that stuff happened, it would start to come through and the final product suffers. Yeah. So, yeah, yeah, prep, prep, and then more prep. I never realized how much went into painting until you hire a painter, a professional painter, to come in and to get a professional job done. The amount of prep work, the amount of stuff that they go through to make sure that every little piece is right, even the little drywall touch-ups, like going through and just little nicks on the wall, it just makes for a huge difference. Yeah. I mean, it starts from the first

time you walk through the door right yeah i mean one of our biggest things is the setup that initial setup walking through and putting paper down along the sides so you know as you're sanding scraping painting anything falls on that. It's not falling on the floor. It makes your cleanup at the end a lot easier. So, I mean, it really is from beginning to end. It's that process and having those steps in place that you follow every time. It just cleans it up so well.

So take me through a process. Say I'm a homeowner, right? And I want you guys to come over and paint my house, right? I want you to do the whole house. Take me through the process of how that works. Yeah. So, I mean, I run the estimates. So I kind of in the initial initial face, put the proposal together, which is super important, especially when you're doing larger projects for homeowners to have a detailed proposal and seeing everything that is involved is important. So when they get our proposal and then they get another proposal that has handwritten $10,000 paint interior. So a detailed proposal and

then once we get the okay, say hey we want to go with you guys, then Mike steps in, he runs production and I'll let you take it from there, Mike. Yeah, that normally starts with a phone call or email, text message, introducing, running through the project with the customer before we even set foot on the job site to start work. Make sure colors are picked.

If there is color issues or they're having, you're trying to figure something out, we do have, like, color designers and consultants that work with us, adjacent to us that we refer to them as well. That can kind of help them go through that and figure that out. Once you get that done, you know, that involves conversations about what are the pressure points, you know, if we're doing a bedroom and that's the only room

you can sleep in and you have drywall repairs and painting that has to happen in that bedroom, those drywall repairs are going to take a day and they have to dry before you can go back and sand and start to paint. So it's a couple of days you're in that bedroom that the painting is only going to take probably a crew three or four hours to do the painting. Right. But the prep and drying and everything in between. So if that is a room, you know, we set it up, cover everything,

and then tear everything down at the end of the day. So clients don't have to, like, move out their whole house or anything? No anything? No. You guys cover all the... Yeah. Okay. Yeah, absolutely. Any of those rooms that are sensitive to somebody like a kitchen or a room that they're sleeping in, either they're saved for the end, like a kitchen we'll try to do towards the end and work our way out of a house uh a bedroom it'll be set up and broken down okay uh so the people will you know they can go back in yeah work is still going on but you have a bed to sleep on right uh okay so you know they get half the wall done they get two walls done on the four bed four wall bedroom yeah they'll come back tomorrow and fix but your bed's still there you can sleep there everything's picked up exactly all back down the next day yeah so you try to like

eliminate the amount of exposure that your clients have to deal with you're a professional company you can come in you don't you're not dealing with paint left over at at the house and stuff just sitting out that you might run into or you got got to walk around or anything like that? Yeah, well, the main thing I would say is having those conversations and starting the communication. I think what so many contractors struggle with is talking when there is a problem, letting them know there's a problem, or even talking before there is a problem to know. And that

prevents most of the problems. If you can identify the pitfalls up front and say, hey, this is what we're going to do, X, Y, Z, and set the expectations, that's the problem. 90% of conflict comes from miscommunication. Yeahication yeah 100 you know i'm i'm an over communicator if nothing else yeah until somebody says i get it yeah stop i get it just get in here and paint i got it i got it i read the thesis no but i mean but everybody's different that's the hard part about business, right? So you've got to go, you know, this person needs a lot of detail. This person doesn't need a lot of detail. But you've got to make sure that everybody is happy with it.

Yeah, and that's, you know, on the estimating side up front, those are the conversations, right? With, you know, 20-some-odd years in the industry at this point, my eye goes to things that a lot of people might not see. Right. Give us an example. A seam in the ceiling. Yeah. Somebody might say, that drives me absolutely nuts. I need that fixed.

Right. I've talked to people that say, I don't walk around with my head up like that looking at the ceiling. Right. Not a big deal. Pain over it. Yeah. And all of that stuff can be fixed, but it's just time. Yeah.

Which is money. Yeah. So having those conversations when I'm doing that initial walkthrough so that I can get a feeling for what those pressure points are, as Mike stated, you know. Yeah. What are the things that are important to you? Right. Because the biggest challenge that we face is understanding those expectations. And if there's one thing that we want to do on every single job, it's exceed expectations.

Yeah. So, yeah. I mean, that's – a lot of people say it, but I truly feel that you guys believe, you know, and you guys live by that. Hey, we're doing it right by the customer and making sure that they get the job that, you know, they deserve. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And like Stephen was saying, you know, that doesn't mean necessarily that, you know, we're going to spend 10 hours painting a room. If you just want to change a color, we can come through and do a townhouse in a day if we're just doing walls and there's no repairs. Right.

We can be in and out. You can be in and out, but if you have repairs that you want to get done, and Stephen, like he was saying, the conversation starts there. So the customer starts getting introduced to the process and how things go. And then once things start going, you know, they get cell phones, emails. I annoy them and tell them over and over, you know, call me. Yeah. You know, if there, you see anything, you know, extra set of eyes are

always good thing. Yeah. And it's your, this is ultimately your house, your project. Yeah. You know, we're just here doing it for you. Right. So we want, if you're not happy at the end of the day, you're, you're the boss. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, those, you know, pushing that open communication and, and really trying to, you know, make people feel comfortable enough to reach out. There's a cohort of people out there too that they'll see something and not feel comfortable reaching out and saying something to somebody. Or they think, oh, they'll get it. That's something that I see, but they'll get it.

What do you recommend um you know say obviously I flip a lot of houses and stuff and what I do when I see stuff painters and just things on the punch out list and stuff is just blue tape do you just give the blue tape to your clients and let them go through or how do you how do you finish out projects that's I would say customer to customer we I have done that like if If they have a lot of stuff and they're worried about it, by all means, hit what you have. We'll take pictures, make sure everything gets buttoned up. Most of the time...

You're not there. I'll be on a job every day. And we'll have a lead guy who runs the job. By the time we get to the end of the job typically all that stuff has been addressed gotcha so as we go through rooms as things get completed if you're doing a whole house i'm not waiting until the last day to check off on rooms that are done yeah you know You know, those, yeah, those rooms get checked and we're out. Yeah. And, and then you, you just narrow the scope and keep narrowing it down to kind of minimize any potential curve balls or last minute headaches. Right. How, um, what are some of the

challenges that you guys face in your business? Oh man. Uh, um, I would say right now it's brand awareness. We're a year in and we are still growing. So I think once people are starting to see what we do, how we do, that's getting better. But we're still in the infancy stages of something that we want to grow and have around for a long time. Really, I think it's brand awareness at this point is the biggest challenge that we do, you know, from nice interiors to exteriors, light commercial, you know, and making sure that, you know, those decision makers that are out there commercially are aware that we're around, you know, residentially, I think word of mouth is the biggest thing that you can get, you know, so, you know, I think word of mouth is the biggest thing that you can get. You know, so, you know, I think that's probably the biggest challenge that we face right now. Yeah. I think strength-wise, like you said at the beginning of the show, Mike and I, 17 years with Sherwin-Williams here, 14 there.

We know all of the local contractors well. Right. We're very particular with the guys that we work with. Yeah. So let's hit on that because I think that's a strength for you guys. Yeah. You guys know pretty much all the painters in the area. A lot of them. Like the guys that actually do the labor because you guys are putting it together. And as business people, that's what you do. You put together a group of people that does good work, and you get the work done, right? You manage it and make sure it gets done. So you guys have been able to go around and handpick some of the best guys

in the area that do what they do and be able to put together a business and help all these customers. Absolutely. Each project is different. And having the right crew to do that project is vital. We have guys that are fantastic with exteriors and wood replacement, soffit repairs, that sort of thing. So I would not set them up to fail by putting them on a high-end interior. Right. Not the right crew for that project. Right. So, you know, I think one of our strengths is definitely having the availability to pick crews for specific job types. Yeah. We got guys that are great with apartments, right? Like that's, that's painting. So painting apartments is a thing. And to have guys that are skilled enough

that can burn through apartments quickly because apartments, that's the name of the game, in and out quick, you know? And then having those guys with the eagle eye for the attention to detail and the high-end interiors. And like I said, the exteriors are kind of their own beast. Yeah. Is technology, how is technology innovating in the painting business? It's been slow. Yeah. I think painters in general are slow on the uptake with that stuff.

But more and more, it's creeping in. Things like there's a, I think you guys were discussing one earlier, but one we're familiar with is called CompanyCam. Things that we'll be bringing on over the next few years that allow the customer, if they're not on site, to kind of view progression. Any job issues or problems get uploaded to it. So things like that help streamline it. There are some older technologies like moisture meters,

things like that that we definitely use and help us manage exterior jobs effectively. So if you had a bunch of rain the night before and the customer's worried about putting a coating on the deck, we'll go out and check the moisture in the deck. And if it's good, it's good. And what is that? What's the moisture?

What's the threshold where you don't put pain over top of it below 20 below 20% so the yeah the readers will give you a readout right it goes in the wood and gives you yeah yeah below 20 you're good to go okay if it's direct sunlight yeah and something's at 25 yeah and I it's going to be direct sunlight, it's hold off, wait until the end of the day, start over here on this section that we know is already. Gotcha. So all of, but having things like that, those things help. The, I think as a business. Estimating software.

Estimating software. Yeah. And then the socials, really. Estimating software. Yeah. And then the socials, really, you know, marketing. Yeah. And a lot of painters don't treat their painting companies like a marketable brand. Let's change that. A lot of contractors, period. Yeah.

Yes. They don't look at themselves as a brand. They don't look at themselves as a company. They just look at themselves as a guy in a truck. Yeah. You know? they don't, they don't look at themselves as a brand. They don't look at themselves as a company. They just look at themselves as a guy in a truck. Yeah. You know, and this is what I do. Yeah. You know, and they don't build out businesses with it. Yeah. And it's the problem with that model is you hit a point where you can only grow so much. Absolutely. So, I mean, I think the idea for us is to build something that's scalable and can continue to produce that kind of high quality and pinpoint projects and products for the customers that we're doing now. Absolutely.

Absolutely. It baffles me. I hear it all the time. It's like, well, nobody can do it as good as me, right. With contractors. That's like, they're famous. It's like the most famous thing they've ever said. Um, but in all reality, there are multiple people that do great jobs. You know, there's so many talented people out there. I wish we had more, right? Because the field is getting smaller and smaller of qualified individuals that can do work. And that's a big thing. Finding people that are reputable. With contractors, you may think the price is expensive, but then go hire somebody that doesn't know what they're doing. Then it doubles the cost of the project. Because then you've got to do it again. Do it twice.

That's never any fun. We've gotten a couple calls from people that chose the wrong contractor. And how do those calls go? When you walk into those, I know they tell you the story. Well, he told me he was going to do X and Y, and then he took half money up front, or whatever it is. Yeah. Yeah. And I try I try to avoid getting into that side of thing because really like what happened previously. Yeah. Doesn't really impact me. And if there's one thing that I don't want to do, it's talk down on somebody else's business. Right. There's always two sides to every story.

Exactly. But in general, it's going through and examining what was done and saying this is how we move forward from here. This is what it's going to take now to repair or correct. And really just trying to move the conversation forward instead of looking back and getting more frustrated with what was. Yeah. Trying to reassure them, hey, we're here now. This is what we're going to do. And we're not going to leave

until we have it right for you. Right. So, so I think really it's, it's more of staying positive, moving things forward and keeping that conversation going. Yeah. Yeah. No, I, I think you're right on that. Um, cause what happened has happened, right? Right. You know, all I can control is what I can control, you know, and this is what I can

do. I can make sure that we get it done right for you and you have a good product and you can give me control. Yeah, 100%. Well, and they normally see it relatively quickly or they're calling us back after that because they saw it initially that we go through it a little bit differently. We talk to them a little bit differently about the project and what they're trying to do. So it's not always the best thing. Sometimes it's somebody calls and the client could be or the customer could be the problem.

The contractor might have been fine. I mean, and that's the thing, too. It's like you get it on both sides. I mean, some people are great to work with and some people aren't. It's just, it's part of it. Right. Yeah.

And you never know until you get there. Yeah, did the contractor get fired or did the customer get fired? Yeah, exactly. So do you guys do any, like, when you hire these guys, do you onboard, do you set the expectations of when you hire these guys do you do you onboard do you set the expectations of how we expect to go through houses what you know how you talk to them how

you address them because my favorite you know you you can say that the best fast food chain is chick-fil-a right and the reason why chick-fil-a is so good it's not because they're chickens great right it's because my pleasure chicken is great it's because my pleasure my pleasure every single time you go in there you feel happy you feel great what do you guys do? how do you handle that?

yes and no the jobs are all a little bit different so there's different set up but yes when we go through a job or a new crew that we're working with i'll be with them um so some of the other companies that are set up similar to us may not have me um somebody that's on the job it'll just be the crew yeah that kind of runs through it so i'll be there and on site for the first day if they're a new crew.

And I'll sit there and watch what the setup is. And if the setup is not what I'm expecting, then they get stopped and the conversation is had very early on about what we need to do. So you're all about catching problems before they start to become problems. 100%. And normally it starts at the truck so before we've even made it inside like i can tell by what supplies right there to get going and prep right that we're going in the right direction yeah um how many guys are there what what what we'll have a conversation what's your plan for today and for this project and how you're

going to complete it right because they are subs so they i mean they'll complete the work and we you know we will push them uh and and give them the best uh guidance on what to do yeah and then if they are not doing that we will stop them and say hey like yeah yeah this is going to be a problem right um this morning they're just a deck but make sure you know everything underneath the deck is covered right so the stuff isn't tripping on patio or exactly yeah whatever it is underneath the deck right things like that that um a new crew if they're not doing it yeah it gets, but they're all different, too. You know, each job is a little bit different.

And I want to see, too, like what they're going to do, what their thought process is, their critical thinking abilities. So as the job goes through, like if there's a problem and they call me, you know, what do you think? Yeah. I do that a lot with my team. They'll ask me for questions like, hey, we got this problem. Okay. Okay. What do you think?

How do we fix this problem? You know, don't come to me to solve everything. Yeah. You know, and that's giving leadership into your team and allowing them to make decisions and do what they need to do to make decisions. Then they feel confident in themselves and they can make the decision the next time. And then if they mess up, we go, why did we make that decision? Let's not make that one again. All decisions have consequences.

I'm a big proponent of we don't have problems, we have opportunities. How do we make this better? Yeah, absolutely. There are so many times when you stop the problem up front, communicate with the client, it makes them look at you in a completely different light. Oh, it's because they know you're trying to get one over on them. You're trying to do it right. You're trying to, hey, we ran into this.

Yeah, exactly. This is what we got. Yeah, one of the most common things I think is when we're doing an exterior, if there's carpentry on the exterior that's being replaced, that's normally part of the bid process. And Stephen will tell them, this is what we're seeing on the surface. If there's something underneath that that's behind that, we're going to have to address it at that point. But we can't tell without pulling everything off right now.

And most of the time, people don't want to do that. So once the job starts, they've already been introduced to what the expectation is. And the second we pull it off, if there's anything behind it, I'm taking pictures. Actually, I mean, I'm taking pictures either way, whether it's rock did not get onto the frame of the house, any of the joists. It was just the soffit. So things like, but it starts with Steven. It's followed up. It gets hit again.

And, yeah, then communicate it to the customer and made clear. And if there is a problem, then this is what we're looking at. And then we've got to decide how to move forward. And let's be clear, painting is not just an aesthetic, right? The reason why painting is on the outside is it's a protective coating for the material underneath of it to allow it to last longer yeah so it's you're also protecting your house when you're doing this as well you're caulking you're re-caulking all the joints of all the expansion and going back like you're sealing it up no bugs are coming in no birds squirrels all that stuff like people i

don't think people realize that as well they're just like oh we're just making it pretty no you're actually helping it last longer. Yeah, yeah. You know? Yeah, no, I think that's true. I think when people are repainting, exterior or interior, it is a beautification of the home. Right. That is primary in the mind.

Right. But you're absolutely right that part of the reason we got into this is because we know that it's a protective coating. It's needed. You need to do it. Or over time, water is mean and cruel and unforgiving. With the amount of houses that I buy right and uh the amount of water damage that comes along with it yeah water will is is what we need to survive but it'll also destroy anything in its way you know what i mean yes it will yep if even concrete like oh yeah yeah yeah if enough water it has has its time with it yeah freeze thaw is brutal on concrete.

It's crazy, right? Yeah, and people don't realize. Nope. And it happens slowly over time. You check it one year and you're like, oh, no, it's good. Yeah. And then six months later, maybe not.

Yeah. Yeah, so definitely get on there and get that painting in. Guys, what do you guys see in the next five to ten years in this business? How do you see it changing? Five to ten years, I think labor is going to be a huge factor. Okay. Rates aren't going down.

Yep. Labor is not getting down. Yep. Labor is not getting cheaper. Right. Materials, I think we're already seeing material costs that are climbing. Interestingly, in the construction industry, paint is one product that increases in price and never decreases. Wood, everything else kind of runs the the peaks and the valleys and it'll go up and it'll come down. Paint just goes up. 17 years with the company I never saw a price

decrease in materials. So you know, you know, I think, you know, those things all, I mean, and how do you sell that? Yeah. I mean, it's getting expensive when you're looking at you know, to paint a 12 by 12 room, you're almost $300

in material. Yeah. Like, you know, I mean, your labor might be pretty material. Yeah. Like, you know, I mean, your labor might be pretty tight. Yeah. But when you add $300 in material on top of that, it starts to put it over the edge almost. So helping people to see that and understand, you know, I think that those are big things that are going to be, you know, in our specific part of the construction industry. Definitely. Yeah, I definitely agree with the labor

over the next five years. I don't know how it will change, but I think it will be necessary to change, whether it's some sort of training program with KTEC or I know that's been tried in the past for some of the vocational schools in the area. Or visas and immigration. A lot of the painters in the area are from South Central America.

And they're some of the best workers, some of the best people. Yeah. Coming from the W2 world and then working with the subs that we work with, I wouldn't trade a single one of them. No, they work hard. They work hard. One thing I wanted to go over.

I wanted to ask this question. The prices in paints, right? You have your low end, your middle, and your top tier paints. You guys worked at Sherman Williams for 17 years. What's the difference? Like, we hear the commercial, bear, oh, use this, one cover, you know, one coat cover, and, you know, all this stuff. So, yeah, when you're dealing with a paint manufacturer,

they all have those steps, right? They all make the stuff on the bottom, they all have the stuff in the middle, and they all have those steps right right they all make the stuff on the bottom they all have the stuff in the middle and they all have the premium right um you know premium is any more interior wise um you're looking at that's where technology has advanced in paint right you have a washable flat paint okay um so you know you have lots of benefits from that um mid-grade solid product coverage is good yeah maybe missing a little bit of the washability okay um and then you have the bottom dwellers, and that's, I think, self-explanatory. It doesn't cover well. And people think they just buy the cheap paint.

Yeah. But you can really tell the difference. If you're getting bottom-of-the-line cheap, you definitely can tell the difference. Yeah, 100%. There are some, like the upper end of the bottom level, there are some decent ones to work with that you'll still have good coverage and hide. But probably not the durability. Like if you ever are bored and you're sitting home on a Saturday night, read through like a product data sheet on a paint. I've got to be really bored, honestly.

Maybe it's a Friday night. There's nothing going on if i'm doing that because they go through it all yeah mill build and i think that's that's probably the other difference how scrubbable the higher end stuff is yeah and they test all that yeah so how many scrubs did the machine go okay the coating actually worked? I think we could geek out on paint with our experience. Yeah, you guys have done it. I oftentimes find myself apologizing to my clients in an estimate. I'm sorry. My wife calls it the paint card. Conversation's over.

That's funny. Well, guys, where do people find you? Where's the best place for them to look you up, contact you about doing business with you guys? Yeah, absolutely. I think our website is first and foremost, www.5starpainting.com backslash Charlottesville. Okay. Yep, absolutely. Gotcha. can you can find um your your schedule we have an online scheduler i think that's probably the easiest thing instead of doing a back and forth you know your schedule yeah look at what's available and plug it into your schedule and then it hits right to my email um as soon as you fill out so that gives like times where you can come

out and div estimates and that type of stuff? Absolutely. Do you usually call and set up and make sure that, hey, we're good to go? Yeah, so typically I'll call about 24 hours or shoot a text message, say, hey, I got you guys scheduled for tomorrow at 12 o'clock. Just wanted

you to have my direct contact info. Should anything pop up and change, just let me know. But yeah, I think the website's probably the easiest place to to get a hold of us okay so cool yeah five star painting.com backslash charlottesville you got it go check them out guys guys i appreciate you coming on the show today yeah thanks for sharing what your business does thank you um you know i i I mean, everybody needs a painter. Everybody needs painting.

We agree. Every single house, every building, everything has paint on it. You don't realize until you're like, you really start to think, man, everything's painted. Everything. Everything. That's right, yeah. That's wild. It's wild to me.

Now you just look at all the opportunities. Yeah, yeah. So, well, gentlemen, thank you you just look at all the opportunities. Yeah, yeah. Well, gentlemen, thank you so much for coming on the show. Hey, guys, every week we do shows with entrepreneurs, people that are doing great things in the neighborhood, and we bring them to you every week here. So stop in and check out next week's show. Thanks.