The I Love CVille Show With Jerry Miller! - Upzoning Lawsuit v Livable CVille - What's Next?; Restaurant Week: Price Points Convo ($35 & $45)

Episode Date: January 22, 2024

The I Love CVille Show headlines: Upzoning Lawsuit v Livable CVille – What’s Next? Restaurant Week: Price Points Convo ($35 & $45) NC State at UVA, 7PM, Wednesday, ACCN Read Viewer & Listener Comments Live On-Air The I Love CVille Show airs live Monday – Friday from 12:30 pm – 1:30 pm on The I Love CVille Network. Watch and listen to The I Love CVille Show on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn, iTunes, Apple Podcast, YouTube, Spotify, Fountain, Amazon Music, Audible and iLoveCVille.com.

Welcome to the I Love Civo Show, guys. Good Monday afternoon. Thank you kindly for joining us. My name is Jerry Miller. We are live in downtown Charlottesville in a studio that we built to spec with technology, hardware, and software as proprietary, unique, and permissible of live streaming to dozens of social media channels at the exact same time. Today's program is dynamic where you, the viewer and listener, can help shape the show.

I'm excited for the program. We have topics today that matter to folks of Charlottesville, Albemarle County, and Central Virginia, where we are looking to be the water cooler of content. That's the point of the network. We don't want to break the news, although we don't mind doing that. We want to analyze the news on this fine and fair talk show. There is a clear dividing line that's forming in the San Judah between the city of Charlottesville, City Hall

in particular, upzoning proponents and upzoning advocates, specifically the nonprofit, the urbanist nonprofit, Livable Charlottesville. Right now, there is a lawsuit that is looking to pepper spray or shoot down the upzoning ordinances that were recently passed. This lawsuit will be the first of many. And Livable Charlottesville is taking the vantage point that it's wealthy homeowners, the one percenters, the well-to-doers, that are looking to kill the opportunity of an American dream of homeownership in Charlottesville. Livable Charlottesville, its co-chair, Matthew Gilligan, were recently quoted in the Daily Progress, and I will read you that quote in a matter of moments from Matthew Gilligan were recently quoted in the Daily Progress, and I will read you that quote in a

matter of moments from Matthew Gilligan. He says, and I quote this from the Daily Progress, ladies and gentlemen, quote, Charlottesville's new zoning code is the product of years of community input, debate, and democratic processes. Just as the frivolous lawsuits to prevent the city's disposal of racist statues and block the comprehensive plan failed, we expect ultimately the new zoning code will prevail. The suit is a defense of the status quo by comfortably housed people and will perpetuate our area's affordable housing crisis if successful. End quote.

This in the newspaper newspaper public record now we talked about this first on the I Love Seville show last week it is making its rounds there are nine plaintiffs listed in the lawsuit these are the folks looking to sue the city to stop the upzoning ordinances

the upzoning approvals that were recently initiated some of the folks in the lawsuit, Edward and Susan White, Roy and Christy Van Dorn. In fact, Roy Van Dorn came on this talk show. I believe you have his photo you can put on screen. Michael and Lillian, is it Bevere? Sorry, Michael and Lillian if I'm messing your last name up, Jenny Clay, and Thomas and Kemp Hill. Interestingly, the Daily Progress, specifically Jason Armesto, the staff writer, and Jason, if you watch and listen to the show,

and I've been told that you watch and listen to the show sometime. In fact, someone mentioned Jason Armesto, the Daily Progress staff writer. Someone sent him a message. Let him know we're talking about his coverage today in the newspaper. I don't always agree with the vantage point of his coverage. And whether we want to admit this or not, anyone who reports the news, while their goal is to be impartial. We're human beings and we see the news through the lens that is unique to us personally. And the lens of us, our lens, our vantage point, how we see things has been determined and shaped by our rearing, how we grew up, how we were parented, how we were raised, how we were educated, the trials and tribulations

we've been through in life. So while reporting the news is supposed to be impartial and it's supposed to be the facts and nothing but the facts, any reporter is going to look at how he or she are going to report something and they're going to see it through a vantage point or a lens that's specific to them. So it will always have a slant. And whether folks want to admit this or not, especially in smaller markets like Charlottesville, and Charlottesville is a very small news market, the folks that are reporting the news in this market are severely underpaid, almost living at the poverty line. And it's crazy for me to say this. It might be crazy for you to comprehend this or appreciate this, but the reporters that are working for the TV

stations and the newspapers locally, even many of them that are on air on the radio stations, are working at essentially poverty line wages. And when the reporters are working at poverty line wages, where they're working second and third jobs just to pay their bills, outside of the 40 hours a week they may work in a newsroom at the newspaper, their lens or their vantage point when reporting the news is going to be influenced by these financial struggles or these trials and tribulations of just trying to make it in the Charlottesville market. And I know this firsthand. When I started in my professional career, it was as a part-time writer at the Daily

Progress. I parlayed that part-time experience through some excellent performance into a full-time staff writer job, later an editor's position where I was one of the youngest editors in Daily Progress history. I also worked for NBC29 as an on-air personality and off-air producer, and for Monticello Media and ESPN Radio doing radio broadcasting and sales. So that experience, which was nearly a decade of newspaper, radio, and television, offered not only the foundation for launching this podcasting network, the brand management services we provide our clients, but it offers a vantage point of what

today's crop of reporters are going through. And I know certainly that the reporters are struggling to stay in Charlottesville professionally, to pay their bills. I'll put it in perspective. Anita Shelburne was often, was the award-winning, Anita Shelburne was an award-winning op-ed opinion columnist for the Daily Progress. When the Progress was printing a print edition regularly, inside the A section, the

primary section of the newspaper, there was a column or an opinion piece that was written by Anita. She was excellent at her job, routinely won awards for her commentary and her opinion pieces. A lot of folks didn't realize this or may have not realized this, but Anita Shelburne, along with winning op-ed awards for her writing, was also a makeup sales associate at Belk. So when you would go into Fashion Square Mall, when Fashion Square Mall was still a thing

and you would walk into Belk, you'd see Anita Shelburne on the weekends or her off days peddling mascara or foundation or lipstick. And this was the position at the newspaper that was one of the most coveted positions of all the writers. I'll give you more background. I worked in the sports department. Jerry Ratcliffe, who is the star of the Jerry and Jerry Show, it airs Tuesdays at 10, 15 a.m. on the I Love Seville Network. He is a Virginia Sports Hall of Famer. He's covered sports for over 40 years. Jerry Ratcliffe is an icon and an institution on the ACC beat and the university athletics beat. He's won more awards than just about any writer that's active right now. And when I was working for Jerry Ratcliffe at the Daily Progress Sports Department. I was on a staff with Whitelaw

Reed, who's a spokesman now, a content manager for the University of Virginia. I was on a staff with Jay Jenkins. I was on a staff with John Shifflett, who's now the sports editor of the Daily Progress. I was on a staff with Chris Wright, who's the owner of thesaber.com. I was on a staff with Andrew Joyner, who I believe works for the University of Virginiasaber.com. I was on a staff with Andrew Joyner, who I believe works for the University of Virginia as well. Steve Obenhauser, who I think is out of the newspaper business altogether. But here's the point I'm making. Many of us that were working for Jerry Ratcliffe in the sports department,

we routinely had to supplement our income through freelance work. I was fortunate. It was fortuitous. It was also a byproduct of hard work of having these TV shows and these syndicated radio shows that very much supplemented my income. In fact, the television shows and the radio shows ended up surpassing the meager salary that I was working, that I was making at the newspaper. But we all worked second and third jobs. Our second or third jobs happened to be sports freelancing. And the freelancing opportunities that came with a sports department were much more plentiful where we were able to use our professional skill sets to earn a living through creating content. If you were on the

education beat or the UVA beat or the science beat or an opinion editor for the Daily Progress, there were no other freelance opportunities. And that's why you saw Anita Shelburne peddling makeup and foundation and lipstick and mascara at Belk. Here's my point. My point is this. If you're a staff writer for the newspaper or if you're an on-air reporter for one of the TV stations, you're hovering around the $30,000 a year, $32,000, $33,000, $35,000 a year pay range. You have roommates. You have second and third side hustles. And those financial struggles, especially when a market like Charlottesville

has a HUD median income per household of $123,300, those financial struggles will craft or influence or determine the view of how you report the news. And Jason Armesto, who's a fantastic writer, Jason, I sincerely mean this, he's a fantastic writer. I think he does his homework. He does his research.

I think he's an award-winning writer waiting to happen, a Virginia Press Award-winning writer waiting to happen. I think Jason Armesto is circulating his clips and his resume now and is going to be a big market reporter very soon, just like many of the other previous reporters. They climb to larger media markets where they can make more money

or they get out of news altogether and do something else in the Charlottesville area because they love this area so much. I think he'll climb the ladder to a different market. My point, his writing is influenced by perhaps the hardship he has in the area. And when he writes about upzoning or housing, or when he writes about, you know, folks in a wealthy position, it has a slant. And the slant from time to times is one that is, I don't want to say in opposition, but it's from a vantage point that is often leading on the side of those folks that may not have as much financial means as others.

And if you look at today's, was it today he released it? It was six hours ago online. The headline is Charlottesville residents sue to block rezoning. He highlights in this article um the assessed values of the homes of the nine plaintiffs that have initiated this lawsuit he says none of their residents are assessed below 750 000 with the most expensive being valued at 2.5 million he highlights their what they do professionally where they work plaintiffs, and some of their hobbies and interests. And perhaps that's good color or background for the story.

Perhaps it's not needed. The gist of what's happening is this. We have a lawsuit that's opposing upzoning, and it's rooted on the foundation that this increased density that's on the horizon or potentially on the horizon is going to significantly throttle or have a friction or loggerheads with the infrastructure that we have in the city. That infrastructure may be roadway. They highlight the Virginia Department of Transportation in this lawsuit that infrastructure may be water, that infrastructure may be schools, it may be quality of life, it may be buying a home tied to a certain set, a certain zoning code, and not expecting that zoning code to change. And when it

did change, homeowners felt betrayed, or they felt ravaged, they felt taken advantage of. It won't be the last lawsuit. Many more are in the pipeline. And what the city is going to find now is it's going to be handcuffed with red tape associated with lawsuits. And this is something that's going to take an extended period of time. I wouldn't even want to quantify how long it's going to take to navigate. And now you have Livable Charlottesville, the urbanist nonprofit, the co-chair, Matthew Gilligan, the other co-chair, Stephen Johnson, who's a UVA professor, now taking a side. Even Michael Payne, the city councilor, has said, we did this the right way. I'm confident staff did

this the right way in Charlottesville. I'm confident our city attorney did it the right way. Michael Payne said, I'm confident us as councilors did it the right way. And Michael Payne has highlighted the precedent of other jurisdictions with lawsuits being initiated when other localities in Virginia have tried upzoning. The reality is this. The most aggressive upzoning plan in the Commonwealth of Virginia's history was right here in Charlottesville. Any locality that's tried to do this, create more housing and more density to stabilize prices when it comes to housing, the most aggressive plan of attack

in the Commonwealth is here in a 10.2 square mile city we call Charlottesville. And what we know about this city is we're an engaged populace, we're an engaged citizenship, citizenry, citizenship, Judah? is we're an engaged populist. We're an engaged citizenship. Citizensry? Citizenship, Judah?

Citizenry, citizenship, I think either one works. Thank you. We're an engaged citizenship. We're a wealthy citizenship. We're a well-heeled citizenship and a citizenship that's willing to put in the work to prevent or to create change. And that's what's happening now. So I want to weave Judah Wickauer in on a two-shot. She's the director of this Fine and Fair talk show. I want you, the viewer and listener, to ask questions if you're uncertain of

what's going on. Neil Williamson, I'll get to this question. I think it's a good question that you're uncertain of what's going on. Neil Williamson, I'll get to this question. I think it's a good question that you're asked, a question that I had myself from the lawsuit. And I want to have an open-ended discussion with you, the viewer and listener, with Judah, and see if we can navigate the cloudy horizon in charlottesville when it comes to local government intervening with capitalism the private sector and the supply chain we call real estate

so judah i'll ask you first. What do you make of the first lawsuit to prevent upzoning from being a reality by nine plaintiffs, all residents and homeowners in the city of Charlottesville? Do you understand it? And if so, can you explain it to the viewers and listeners? I don't know that I understand it enough to explain it to the viewers. As you said, this is kind of par for a board asking a master's or Ph.D. candidate to defend their thesis. So you welcome them? I don't know that I welcome them, but I think it's... Because defending your thesis or your master's is something that's welcome. Yeah, I mean, I think it's beneficial in that this should be something that's well thought out enough that it can be defended.

If it can't be, then maybe it deserves to go back to the drawing board. So if Counselor Payne feels that they've done everything correctly and nothing is out of order, then I don't see how, aside from the time spent in court on this. Plus taxpayer resources. That's fair. But something like this was going to pop up and it pops up pretty much everywhere. Upzoning pops up. So I don't see that it's not like this was unexpected. I feel that the council should be able to defend their product.

City attorney will be doing that. And I think that if they do a good job as they you know as one would hope they would that uh people come out of this with a better appreciation for the upzoning one gentleman watching this fine and fair talk show john blair has a fantastic vantage point to potentially contribute to this discussion. He is a lover of Charlottesville, is a city attorney, has been a city attorney of Charlottesville, is a homeowner, and is a voice of reason in this community. John, I sincerely mean that.

Neil Williamson's watching the program. homeowner and is a voice of reason in this community. John, I sincerely mean that. Neil Williamson's watching the program. He says, can you explain how quality of life is defined as infrastructure? Not questioning the impact, just the definition. And he says, for what it's worth, I sincerely appreciate those who are not afraid to properly utilize the legal system to question authority. Can you get Neil Williamson's photo on screen? He's a key member of this family. Neil Williamson's power ranking should climb. He's a sports fan. Neil Williamson is currently number 28 in the power poll. And from what I can tell, Neil Williamson's ranking should climb into the 22 slot. We'll make Niels climb, Niels climbing the poles,

the president of the Free Enterprise Forum from 28 to 22, if you want to switch those out, please. Am I just switching him with current? Yeah, that'd be good. Niels says, can you explain how quality of life is defined? Deep throat, I'll get to your comment

in a matter of moments. Look, quality of life is defined. Deep throat, I'll get to your comment in a matter of moments. Look, quality of life is an ambiguous term. What determines quality of life? Depends who you ask. Depends on who you ask. A lot of people would say quality of life is the ability or the realistic chance of procuring or obtaining housing at a fair wage that is in the 30% to 35% range of their take-home pay. You want to be in that 30% to 35% range. A lot of people aren't. I believe it.

A lot of people are surpassing 50%. And when you're surpassing 50% of your paycheck allocated to housing, I believe it. So depending on who you ask, if you ask Livable Seville, Stephen Johnson, Matthew Gilligan, and their urbanist nonprofit, they would say the first aspect of quality of life is the ability to obtain housing at a reasonable cost. You ask other folks that are potentially homeowners about quality of life. And those folks may say, it's traffic, infrastructure, schools, public transportation, noise. Some folks may say not getting gentrified out of their homes because of assessment increases and tax increases. Janice Boyce Trevelyan makes this point on one of our Facebook pages. She says a lot of people don't realize that the folks are the tax base that allow these

other programs to exist. These folks that own homes, high assessed homes, are creating tax revenue for other avenues of affordability to exist. It's not going to be the first lawsuit. Many more to come. No doubt. What I do not want to see is I don't want to see the stigmatization of folks initiating the lawsuit. I don't want to see this commentary here that just as the frivolous lawsuits to prevent the city's disposal of racist statues and block the comprehensive plan failed. We expect ultimately the new zoning code will prevail. When Gilligan gives that quote, he's associating the disposal of statues and parks, he's using that as a dog whistle. That phrasing is utilized as a dog whistle.

And it's used to imply or to implicate those that are opposing upzoning as racist. And I don't think that's their intent at all. No, I'm sure they have genuine concerns. Their concerns are infrastructure-based. Their concern could be this. I bought a house in an R1 neighborhood, single-family detached neighborhood, and my plan when I purchased this home and paid top dollar because Charlottesville is expensive was it was always going to stay R1, single-family detached.

I wasn't going to have a multifamily or a duplex or quadplex next door to me. And I don't fault those folks. I don't fault those folks. And just as the democratic process of up-zoning, getting pushed through, suing, initiating a lawsuit to prevent that process from becoming a reality, it's also democratic. It's also what permits this country,

this commonwealth in our city to be a place we want to live because if we can rally the troops or if we can prove an argument

then we can keep something from potentially happening. Let's get a deep throw. Get his photo on screen. He says, on the lawsuit, I know there were many more people willing to join it, but because a challenge needed to be filed within 30 days from the action of the draft zoning ordinance being passed,

the law firm could not get conflicts cleared in the few days between these people's expression of interest and joining and when filing deadline was, including the fact that there was a holiday and snow days right in front of the filing deadline. He says, to our point about the grouchily underpaid reporters, Deep Throat recalls a pop-up where Alison Rabel was there, and one of the pro-ups owners there was like, see that reporter? She can't afford to live here. My view was, yeah, that's sad,

but the failure of Lee's business model was not the fault of upzoning. He also says this, and by the way, why wouldn't Citi just do a transportation study now? Surely it would be done before any case goes to trial and it would be a useful thing to do totally apart

from rezoning what is this city afraid to learn or is it just typical incompetence and stubbornness of the city leadership warrior ag welcome to the program thank you kindly for joining us logan wells clay low hello Logan Wells-Colello, hello. Having city residents sue the city is part of the democratic process, but it's not always a great look. Yeah. And I've said this once, and I'll say it again I don't think this plan of attack

is going to stabilize prices by any means and I am also curious of the homes that came out of the gates in January marketing listings with upzoning potential if those homes will change their marketing materials because now there's an active lawsuit. I think we are going to see much more talk on this topic. No doubt.

As we should. I mean, it's definitely a subject that I think requires discussion. I just don't want to see stigmatization around those on either side. Right. I mean, that's always a problem. Vilification of someone that you disagree with

is pretty low. And comparing these lawsuits to the removal of statues in parks is an implied what? It's kind of a slap in the face. If you've got an honest concern and someone starts throwing around at least the implications of racism, I think that's poor faith arguments. Follow it closely. We will. and can you imagine, is courage the work you would use

for nine people as plaintiffs to enact a lawsuit, to launch a lawsuit? Is it courage? I don't know if I'd go that far. What do you call it? Chutzpah? I don't know. Chutzpah is a Jerry word.

You're saying I can't use it? I'm saying you can use chutzpah if you want, but that's a word I use on the regular. What would you call it? I mean, that's why I used chutzpah, because that's what I'd call it. I don't know the people well enough to know their... It's a fine line between chutzpah and courage,

is it not? Courage to me implies that there's something to be afraid of. I don't know that any of these people are afraid that they're going to start getting their houses egged or teepeed. You think they are? Yeah.

Well, then maybe there is some courage involved. Like I said, I don't know the people enough and I don't know the opposition enough. If the opposition is willing to go to the go as low as as as you know, doing something like

that, then, I mean, that puts the whole thing in a different light for me. Bill McChesney watching the program. He says it's not about pricing. It's about drastically changing neighborhoods and all socioeconomic statuses. Can you put Bill's photo on screen?

Bill is the mayor of McIntyre. He has indicated on previous shows his family very much on a fixed income, number 15 in the power poll. And when assessments go up, that means he and his wife have less money every week and every month for bills, emergencies, and savings. Because they're on a fixed symptom. I mentioned this live on air. Deep Throat says getting called out in the DP is nothing to be afraid of. Deep Throat says who reads it, who takes it seriously.

Deep Throat says nobody who reads it, who takes it seriously? Deep Throat says, nobody important. Slam. That's one of the challenges of putting the content behind a paywall. Because you've got a smaller readership.

Especially in tough economic times. And especially when the content is not as prolific as it could be or should be. I think it probably takes a level of courage to get a lawsuit like that in the public record because I would think that there's going to be a level of social retribution,

digital retribution, stigmatization, and certainly I hope no more than name calling or dog whistles. But you just don't know in this day and age. You brought this to our attention, the $36 and $46 price points of Charlottesville Restaurant Week. Yeah. Restaurant Week is something that we very much support.

A lot of folks don't realize this. The Charlottesville Restaurant Week brand is a brand that we sold to Blair Kelly and Bill Chapman, the owners of the Seville Weekly in a five-figure deal. Charlottesville Restaurant Week is, I mean, you were a part of the team then. Built it into a brand, drove it into the highest level of engagement it's ever had, and then exited the platform and the brand by selling it to Chapman and Kelly,

who at the time owned The Hook and the Seville Weekly in a multi-day negotiation that happened in the conference room of the Seville Weekly in the downtown mall, that is now the presidential headquarters of whom? Isn't he a Kennedy? Yeah, Kennedy. I think you're right. Yeah, I think Kennedy's presidential headquarters. You saw DeSantis dropped out, right? No, I didn't.

DeSantis is out. And now DeSantis dropped out, right? No, I didn't. DeSantis is out. And now DeSantis is fully endorsing and backing Trump. The likelihood of a Trump Biden race in 2024 is pretty high. Restaurant Week is an opportunity. It's 35 and 45. I think I may have said 36 and 46. 35 and 45, if you're putting lower thirds on screen, I'm not sure if you are. It's January 29th through February 4th. And there's a number of participating restaurants. Ones that we love. I mean, we love Bell.

We love the Bebedero. And we love Maru. And we love the Clifted. And Bizu. And Bang. And Ralph Sampson's Tap House. And Mockingbird. And the Whiskey Jar,

and Tavern and Grocery, and Fig, and Cafe Frank. I mean, we love these spots, and we want you to participate or help them or support them from January 29th to February 4th of this year. It's the dog days of winter, and in the dog days of winter, folks are not going to restaurants. They're vacant. Restaurant week was an idea of doing it in January and the dog days of summer when people are traveling or in the winter when they're licking their wounds from Christmas spending and paying credit card debt down. It's freezing cold outside.

I woke up, it was 9 degrees in Keswick. 10 degrees in Keswick. The price points have some folks raising their eyebrows. And the commentary I'm going to offer is in support of the restaurateurs who are just trying to potentially make it. These guys are feeling the pinch of labor shortage and the labor they have knows that there is a shortage out there. And because there's a shortage out there, the labor that is existing is commanding top dollars. Cost of goods is expensive. Landlords aren't dropping on their rent? Definitely not. Consumers are questioning every dollar spent.

Headwinds galore in a saturated line of business restaurants. So how do you want to handle the $35 and $45 price points? I mean, it's... You and I often... I think what makes the show great is you and I often have

differing ways of looking at things I think you definitely have to do your homework I haven't taken a look at all these but there are definitely some that are appealing I've already got a couple in mind that I'd like to possibly check out which one specifically? like I said, I haven't looked through all of them you You said you had a few in mind. So which one specifically?

I like Inca Grill. I like Ralph Samson's American Tap Room. All right, let's take Ralph Samson's American Tap Room. They both have courses that appeal to me. Okay. Let's go Ralph Samson's American taproom. It's at the $35 price point. Yeah. Spinach and artichoke dip kale Caesar salad or deviled eggs for the first course. The second course, shrimp and grits, black and salmon or bistro steak frites. And the third course bread pudding or a Rocky slide brownie Sunday, Ralph Samson's American taproom by its name isroom, by its name, is a taproom. By its name is a taproom. Some would call it a bar, a burger joint, a sports bar,

a burger and sandwich restaurant. A lot of folks don't realize it's got the highest rent of any restaurant in Charlottesville, Ralph S samson's american tavern 35 price point for a sports bar a burger and beer joint yeah but if you look at the menu i mean bistro steak frites you're not you're not going to go to a restaurant outside of restaurant week and get uh steak frites for under probably what what, $17, $18. Add to that a decent first course, it's probably going to run you $12. For me, the best steak frites in town, where's the best steak frites in town in your opinion? I think Petit Point. Yeah, Petit Point's got the best steak frites in town, I would say. Let's see what their everyday steak frites price point is on their menu.

I'm going to their website now. What would you say it was? I'm going to stick with my $17, $18. I think that's extremely light. I think steak frites for dinner is between $25 and $30. In fact, I would bet, and they don't have price points on their menu, unfortunately. That's a bummer. I would bet you you would be challenged in this

community, you would be challenged in the city to find an entree that was a non-sandwich, a non-sandwich entree that was lower than $25 that had a protein in it. There was a time where Restaurant

Week was a discounted price point that gave the community an opportunity to try new places. Yeah. I think that time of discounted price points no longer can happen. I don't think it can happen because we got more competition that we've ever had in restaurants. Labor is more expensive than it's ever been. Cost of goods is more expensive than it's ever been. Rent is more expensive than it's ever been. Rent is more expensive than it's ever

been. And a lot of these places have debt service accumulated over the last three to four years, whether it's pandemic related or not. And all things are colliding at the exact same time. Yeah. And I said this last week, we're seeing before our own eyes the gentrification of dining out, eating out. And I'll say this again. I'm all for everyone having a living wage. I want everyone to have a living wage. I'm all for everyone earning as much money as possible. But one of the byproducts of small businesses, in particular one that's extremely seasonal like restaurants, paying wages of $20 plus per person, is those business owners choosing to go on a different path when it comes to labor,

pick up windows, QR codes and send a front of the house staff, and also the consolidation of jobs. $35 and $45 price point for restaurant week in January. The local has steak. Local's a great restaurant. They've got steak frites. On their menu? Yeah.

And their price point? I bet it's over $25. It is exactly $25. Okay. And what's that come with? Grilled New York strip, horseradish, artichoke, bechamel, crumbled blue cheese, caramelized onions, fries, and the vegetable of the day. Sounds perfect. So some of that may, like the vegetable of the day, you might consider that an appetizer.

I wouldn't say that's an appetizer. You don't think? No, that's a side. Okay. You would drop $35 at the tap room for spinach and artichoke dip, steak frites, and a rocky slide brownie sundae? Rock slide brownie sundae? Rock slide brownie sundae? Yeah. Yeah, I think I would.

You would? I think so. Do we think this is going to be a well-turned-out restaurant? It would be nice if it was. I have no way to judge whether it will or not. I mean, I certainly want it to be. I would say these are one of the most challenging economic climates during a restaurant weekend sometime, though. Yeah, no doubt.

John Blair watching the program, he says, thank you for the kind words. He says, as is, and I totally understand, like he normally does, he's not going to comment on the lawsuit. Totally respect that. He says, what I will offer is this. You are 100% correct. The market and interest rates are so, so, so much more important to help produce more housing is getting the red tape cut and getting the window to a CO diminished. Helping folks that want to build housing

get to housing quicker and faster. Cracking ground faster. Yeah, definitely. I also have highlighted in previous shows that the city itself has put up a huge brick wall for multiple housing projects locally, including Wendell on the Rivanna River and Chris Henry in Phase 3 dairy market. So it seems to be a bit of a contradiction or hypocrisy here,

which I've highlighted in previous shows. I've well documented that. Yeah, you can't build housing if you're putting the people that build houses out of business. Or buying their land to keep housing from happening. Right.

Philip Dow, he says, the middle class cannot afford $35 one-person meals. They are three courses, but he's saying this is out of the middle class's price range. I don't know that that's true. I mean... I rarely you stay make this argument normally you're in the the other side i mean i'm not saying that the middle class is going out and spending 35 dollars on a meal on a single person meal every time they go out but But, uh, restaurant week has always been kind of like a special happening, a special occasion. And I could see people, you know, spending, uh, spending $35 on a, on a decent meal, add, you know, add the cost of a drink to that. But, um,

you're trying out a nice restaurant. Um, It's not like this is going to be an everyday, a once a week type thing. Jason Howard watching the program. I don't believe that the middle class couldn't afford one special night out

to go to spend a night at a restaurant for restaurant week. Jason Howard watching the show, number 26 in the family. Can you put his photo on screen if you could, please, sir? Appreciative. Appreciate your take as well, Judah. Thank you for your perspective. He says, with the restaurant price point, is it the chicken or the egg?

Costs have gone up everywhere from the grocery store to Lowe's to restaurants. This inflation has been offset by increased wages for most. Do you say restaurant price points have gone up far beyond that of other goods? Or do people just feel the pain eating out more because it's one meal you can focus on it more than doing a point-by-point analysis of your grocery bill? Great question. Yeah, I think I would lean more towards the second. That it's easier to... That it's easier to... That it's easier to take a look at that one specific...

It's like take a look at the restaurant menu somewhere and say, well, I just picked up a New York strip steak or something at the grocery store. Did you buy it at Reed's? And I can cook it up for a lot less than I can cook up a pretty darn good steak. What's this New York strip at the grocery store run these days? I honestly don't know. I'm not usually. Oh, is this a hypothetical?

Yeah, this is a hypothetical. I'm not usually at the store buying New York strip steaks or any other kinds of steaks unless I find them on sale. And then I might grab a couple and stick them in the freezer for when I want to splurge. But I can cook up a pretty darn good steak. I can cook up a pretty darn good double stuffed, what do you call it, double-stuffed baked potato? Going a lot of directions with that one. Baked potato. Okay. And so why should I, you know, why do I want to go and spend, you know, 50 bucks at a store? That's a cost that I can easily skip and have a good meal at home.

So, yeah, I think his take is 100% on that. It's easy for people to say, well, I would love to go do that, but now is not the right time. Janice Boyce-Trevillian says, we spent 50 bucks for breakfast and it was nothing special. Jason Howard says, suing the city certainly is bold. It's a small town and putting your name on a lawsuit against rezoning is publicly stating your opinion on an issue many are passionate about. Only so many people and companies to do business with and a lawsuit against the city

could alienate some of them. I feel like it's a bold move too. Deep Throat says the upzoners conflate zoning complexity with regulatory complexity generally. Much of the delay here has to do with things that are outside of zoning, not having inspectors, extremely slow turnaround in site plans, or ad hoc SHJW spurt objections because the big gentryplex is in a place that the LAJC doesn't like,

i.e. not in a wealthy person's backyard. It's a lot of red tape is what he's saying. Ginny Hu says she's with Judah. Our whole family wouldn't be going, but restaurant week is nice for a special date night. I will say this, and I want to stand up for the restaurant owners. The ones that are charging $35 and $45 for restaurant week next week, they're not really going to be making much money. Right.

And it's also, it's not on them, is it? I think they usually have the two price points that they can choose between, correct? Yeah, the Seville offers them either 35 or 45 price point. But they do influence the price point prior to restaurant week. Yeah, definitely. And they also know that if the price point is not at a threshold that meets their business model, they won't participate. And the worst thing possible for a restaurant week is lack of participation of restaurants. Yeah. The people that are putting

on restaurant week are definitely getting feedback and obviously they're not going to... It's not the Seville that has the leverage for restaurant week. It's the restaurants. Yeah. And in some cities... But ultimately, before it starts going up on the website, there are two or sometimes three... I mean, when I did Restaurant Week, when I launched Restaurant Week, there was three price points. Yeah, I think the lowest was 19, wasn't it? I think we did 16, 26, and 36.

And the 16 got your handhelds, your bar and sandwiches in there. Yeah. Your burgers and sandwiches restaurants in there. 26 was middle to high, and 36 was high. Holly Foster says, don't forget that a salad was also included at Ralph

Samson's Restaurant Week in all locations. Has always been an opportunity to try places that are less affordable. Absolutely. Queen of Henrico, Holly Foster, if you want to put her photo on screen. I see it from both sides. I'm going to take the restaurant owner's side first. They're not making much money on $36 and $46 price points. Where the restaurant owner is going to be making money in a lot of circumstances is in the alcohol sales. Oh, definitely. They're not making much money here. They're hoping for some alcohol sales that if they don't get the alcohol sales, they get some H2O drinkers. They're really maybe breaking even. Yeah. I also see it from the

consumer side. The consumer is,-pinching right now. And the folks that are saying 35 and 45 is sticker shock, I empathize. The true winners of Restaurant Week, you know who the true winners of Restaurant Week are? I do not. The Seville Weekly that charged a fee for the restaurants to participate. That's fair. They had to do winter and summer and buy a place in the print edition, buy an ad in the print edition as well.

Those are your true winners of Restaurant Week. All right. That's the Monday edition of our Fine and Fair Talk Show. Anything you want to close with, Judah B. Wickower? Let's see. No, I thought you did a good job. There's an interesting Piedmont pitch that's creating a 10-week program that helps small businesses

and graduates will have the opportunity to pitch their business idea for up to $15,000 in prize money. So if anybody's thinking about

starting a small business, look into the Piedmont Pitch. You got anything you would pitch? Not right now, no. That's fair. Would you ever open your own business? I might. You've worked side by side with a business owner for 13 years.

Would you ever open your own business? Yeah, I might. Knowing what you know now? I mean, there have been lots of businesses that have been successful over the years. Because you've worked side by side with what we do, a number of businesses. Got a very nice bird's eye view. I mean, I would say 1,000 plus in over 13 years. It's not for everybody.

No, definitely not. All right, that's Monday edition. You did a good job today. Tuesday, the Jerry and Jerry show at 10.15 a.m. Jerry Ratcliffe is in the house. Virginia Sports Hall of Famer. And then the I Love Steve- Jerry show at 10.15 a.m. Jerry Ratcliffe is in the house. Virginia Sports Hall of Famer. And then the I Love Seville show at 12.30 is going to bring some ammunition. Thank you kindly for joining us for Judah.

I'm Jerry, and this is the I Love Seville show. So long. Thank you. Thank you.