The I Love CVille Show With Jerry Miller! - UVA Pro Palestine Protesters Charges Dismissed; 307 Alderman Rd 4Sale ($925K ask) In Lewis Mtn

Episode Date: August 21, 2024

The I Love CVille Show headlines: UVA Pro Palestine Protesters Charges Dismissed 307 Alderman Rd 4Sale ($925K ask) In Lewis Mtn 307 v 303 Alderman Rd: $925K ask v $835K close Nicole Scro On New Zoning Ordinance Projects Jobs Moving From CVille City To Albemarle Co City Strategy To Compete With AlbCo For Jobs 10-Year Anniversary For The Flats Apartment Tower The Flats: 8 Floors, 595 Beds, $821K Yearly Taxes The Flats Building Sold For $77.5M In 2016 The I Love CVille Show airs live Monday – Friday from 12:30 pm – 1:30 pm on The I Love CVille Network. Watch and listen to The I Love CVille Show on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn, iTunes, Apple Podcast, YouTube, Spotify, Fountain, Amazon Music, Audible, Rumble and iLoveCVille.com.

Good Wednesday afternoon, guys. My name is Jerry Miller, and welcome to the I Love Seville show. Thank you kindly for joining us. Today's show is locked and loaded with a boatload of content. We have content, if you like real estate, if you like development, if you like discussion and analysis on our local economy, on where jobs are moving, on the intersection of policy and government and how it applies to moving the economy forward,

I think today's program is tailor-made for you. We're going to also talk one of the deepest, darkest, most concerning days in UVA history, the pro-Palestine purchase protests that saw Jim Ryan, maybe it was Jim Ryan, maybe it was not Jim Ryan, calling the state police to basically act as a militia and disbanding a pro-Palestine protest. Those charges are getting dismissed left and right. I'm going to applaud Jim Hingely, the Commonwealth's attorney, who listens to this program often, on how he's managed the cases of 27 protesters who were arrested at a pro-Palestine encampment on grounds of the University of Virginia on the 4th of May. We're also on today's program. We're going to chatter 307 Alderman Road.

We have another Lewis Mountain neighborhood for sale, Judah. Another Lewis Mountain house for sale. And it's just a few doors down from 303 Alderman Road that traded to a local builder for $835,000 just a little while ago. Are we seeing Lewis Mountain residents swarming or stampeding or scurrying from what is an affluent and well-positioned neighborhood because of density that is on the near horizon? Time will tell. I will say this, Lewis Mountain neighborhood residents, if you're considering selling your home, those that list their houses now or in the very near future will be able to capture the highest dollar possible. The longer the development happens in the Lewis Mountain neighborhood, the more the value of a single family house will diminish with certain buyers because quality of life will become a point of concern. I'm sure many of you understand that. If you do not understand that, I would encourage you to chat with somebody like yours truly or somebody that you trust that can help explain what's coming

down the pipe for your particular neighborhood and others in the city of Charlottesville. On today's program, we're going to talk Nicole Skrow. She is a local developer and attorney. I hope she hears the commentary we're going to offer about her on today's show. She published a thread earlier today, local attorney, real estate, local developer. She was a part of a deal that I did earlier this year, a business brokerage deal with a business we sold and helped get position lease-wise and success-wise, Southside, Charlottesville. She published a thread on Twitter about the impact of the new zoning ordinance so far.

Very insightful thread. I retweeted it on my account. Check me out on Twitter, twitter.com forward slash Jerry Miller now for that thread from Nicole. Really, the projects have been small potatoes so far, and the projects, except for one, have fallen well under the limit, the affordable housing requirements of the city of Charlottesville, 10% of the units on a project of nine units or more that's greater than nine units. Words matter. 10% of the units on a project that's 10 units or more must be affordable for 99 years at an area median income that's equivalent

to 60%. You're clearly seeing developers choose to build below that threshold. We're going to pick apart her thread today on the show, offer insight to you that's approachable and easy to understand for you to learn what's happening in your home, in your community. This applies to Albemarle County residents as well, because you surround the city of Charlottesville. And when density comes to the city, that could potentially impact you as well in Alamaro County take the Lewis Mountain neighborhood if you're following the Lewis Mountain neighborhood you live in Alamaro County you live in Ednam Village you live in Ednam you live in Bel Air you live in Farmington you live down the road in Ivy what happens in Lewis Mountain

directly impacts you from a traffic and quality of life standpoint. On today's program, we're going to talk the 10-year anniversary of the flats. Sean Tubbs has fantastic coverage on the flats in the Seville Weekly. I can't believe this apartment tower is 10 years old. Corin Capshaw and his Riverbend development firm brings the flats to market, eight floors, 595 beds, yearly taxes of $821,000. I mean, well, hold on, $821,000 this year. In total, it's collected, the city of Charlottesville, $6,350,000 from the flats, the 10-year anniversary. This building on a 4-1 vote with former councilor D.D. Smith being the lone no vote has really had no impact in creating affordability

in the city of Charlottesville. You can genuinely point to the flats and say, hey, we have a building with massive density right on the heart of the city. And when this building went before council 10 years ago, the whole premise of building the flats was these added beds, 595 bedrooms. This increased density will help alleviate and take off pressure on 10th and Page, Star Hill, and Fifeville. I would say the exact opposite has

happened. The exact opposite has happened. D.D. Smith offered this quote to the CVO Weekly. Quote, I'm going to read this verbatim. Quote, Charlottesville was told that a large student complex on West Main would moderate rents across town, stimulate a vibrant mixed-use community, and reintegrate West Haven and Fifeville into Main Street. Unfortunately, few, if any, of these benefits have occurred. End quote. That's DeeDee Smith, who voted no on the project. Ladies and gentlemen, a microcosm of potentially the new zoning ordinance, today's zoning code, having very little impact moving forward on this community from an affordability standpoint.

Nicole Skro's thread offers similar evidence to that statement that I just offered. On today's program, we're going to talk a commentary that I had in direct message capacity with Deep Throat about jobs potentially leaving the city of Charlottesville for Alamaro County. And I'm going to ask the question, what is Charlottesville, Virginia doing to maintain jobs in city limits? And I'm not talking hospitality jobs, ladies and gentlemen. I am not talking seasonal jobs that are significantly below the HUD median income family household of $124,200 for the Charlottesville metropolitan area. God, today's show is loaded. Well, we, Judah Wittkow, we're in on a two-shot. Before we do, we'll give Pro Renata some props, Judah, if we can get some photos on screen for PRN. Pro Renata, ladies and gentlemen, is doing some amazing things in Crozet. It's pivoting its models

with its Crozet location into more of a sports bar. It's using the location it purchased in the Chandeau Valley, the old Skipping Rock location, to brew its beer. So that's going to be the hub for beer making with its new brewmaster, the old Skipping Rock location. They purchased equipment flirting with a million dollars in value, some of the best beer making equipment on the East Coast, Pro Ronada now has, and they're also developing, literally real estate development in downtown Stanton as they expand their brand into downtown Stanton, which I'm extremely bullish on. I mean, if you have an opportunity to visit downtown Stanton, my family

has, you see affordability right now. You see opportunity right now. You see upside right now. Is downtown Stanton, I'm going to put this in an analogy form, Judah. 10th and Page. I'll try a very simple analogy. The Belmont neighborhood in 2000, is that what downtown Stanton is right now? The very tony and posh Belmont neighborhood in the city of Charlottesville, 24 years ago, was a working class neighborhood loaded with affordability. Is that what downtown Stanton is right now from an affordability and upside standpoint? I ask you that question. Are Dr. John Shave and Pro Renata, this team,

going to lead a reimagining of downtown Stanton with the significant money they're putting into? Seth Liske, another gentleman who watches this program, I do business with Seth, have a meeting with Seth next week right here at the I Love Seville studio offices in the Macklin building. He's another guy that's a mover and shaker in downtown Stan. I hope that gets back to Seth Liske, the talented real estate developer, friend of the program. I sincerely mean that. I lived in Belmont in 2005, right after UVA, 2005. And my street, Little Graves, lived there for a couple of years, working class people. I watched firsthand as homes were either completely gutted or torn down. I watched Adam Frazier, the owner of Mockingbird,

the owner of The Local, and much of downtown Belmont, basically tear down a house on graves and turn it into a beautiful home where he's raising his wife and children in. Belmont, 2000, downtown Stanton right now. So much to cover on the show. Judah Wickher on a two-shot. I ask you this question all the time. Which headline is most compelling to you today and why before we go to the rundown? For me, I think the UVA story is the most compelling. I'm very interested in the fact

that four people have decided that they would rather take this to court and find out what's going on at UVA rather than take the easy out and just let their charges be dropped. Set the stage of what the four people are doing. The who, what, when, where, why from today's Daily Progress article. Jim Hingely occasionally watches and listens to this program. I'm very much involved with this story. I think Mr. Hingeley is showing grace with the 27 protesters here. Show us yours on the four that are pursuing a path of, some would say,

ballsiness, aggressiveness, a path that says, look, we're going to stand up for our rights to protest, and the fact that what the University of Virginia did to us on the 4th of May was completely wrong. Yeah, I don't even know if it's grace. I think it's just, I mean, common sense. Yeah, common sense. Hensley is a smart guy, and I think almost anyone looking at this situation can see that this is nuts. Something is way off. We've been saying it since we first started talking about it. It just doesn't make sense. We said from day one on this talk show

that utilizing the Virginia State Police as an organized militia, as basically military, to pepper spray students to keep them from protesting in what was pretty much a peaceful outing, was going to be one of the worst days in UVA history. And everything we said is proven to be correct. We said the protesters, the 27 of them, would have the charges dropped. We said it on the 5th, 6th, or 7th of May.

That's become a reality. The charges are being dropped. There's four that were arrested that are saying, hey, we're going to take this even further, and we're going to make a stance through legal procedures and show the world that what the University of Virginia did was wrong. What UVA could do and what's best for the University of Virginia brand is to close this chapter as quickly as possible. I think that's what's happening right now. And any of the students that still have their degrees in limbo. There are some graduating students that

have not been able to graduate because they were a part of this pro-Palestine protest. They still have their degrees in limbo. It's not until a trial of their student peers this fall will they know if they get their degrees. Those students who have their degrees being held as collateral damage or as leverage, I hope to God they get them as quickly as possible so that they can put on their resumes that are actual graduates of the University of Virginia. That seems like absolute common sense. Please, UJC, follow the common sense of Alamo Commonwealth's attorney Jim Hingely and whoever ordered

Jim Ryan to militarize the state police we would love to know who you are I doubt you will rear your head in this regard I don't think it was Ryan and I will stand on that hill for eternity you don't think it was Ryan that had you think he was taking orders

taking orders this Taking orders. This is completely against what Jim Ryan stands for. Yeah. Militarizing the state police. He would never do this. No, I don't see this in character for him either. Never pepper spray students Jim Ryan. He would never do this.

Well, whoever... I don't think any... This reeks of Yunkin to me. And I said that from the beginning as well. This reeks of Glenn Yunkin. I And I said that from the beginning as well. This reeks of Glenn Yunkin. I don't think we'll ever know, though. I don't know that Yunkin would send them in specifically to pepper spray people, but I think that there was a breakdown in communication.

Obviously, somebody ordered, like you said, Ryan, to bring them in. And since, I think having police that aren't local makes it, I think, makes it easier for... This makes the local police and the Virginia police and the Alamo County police look bad. It makes, it umbrellas police as military and makes the local guys who are trying to do it right look bad. Nearly all the 27 protesters who were arrested at the pro-Palestine encampment on grounds have had their cases dismissed. Next topic, Judah Wickauer.

I think this is one that you should offer the headline on. Next topic, okay. 307 Alderman. 307 Alderman Road, ladies and gentlemen. Multiple people sent me this listing. Has an asking price of $925,000. Do you have photos of 307 Alderman Road? Yeah. Can we rotate those photos on screen, please? 307 Alderman Road, the listing agent is Bob Durr of Real Estate 3 North. I'm going to start my commentary

by saying this. The photos are rotating on screen. Ladies and gentlemen, I think Bob Durr is doing well by his client trying to get as much top dollar as humanly possible. The next door neighbor or a few houses down from 307 Alderman Road is 303 Alderman Road. And 303 Alderman Road sold to Evergreen Builders earlier this year. They came out, Luke Cole of Long and

Foster, the listing agent, he initially came out with an asking price of $1 million, a rancher, ranch-style home that completely needed to be gutted. What ended up happening, or what's going to end up happening, is the ranch-style house is going to be razed. It's going to be knocked down by Evergreen, and they're going to build townhomes in its place. That home came out with an asking price of $1 million. 307 Alderman Road has an asking price of $925,000. It's smaller than 303 Alderman Road, ladies and gentlemen. Only 1,300 square feet. 303, 307 Alderman Road.

$1,329 to be exact. Three bedroom, two bath. Four days on Zillow. Significant web traffic. 1,100 plus views and 38 saves already, 307 Alderman Road. He talks about the third of an acre lot, the large open backyard, the classic Cape Cod location, location, but the true nitty-gritty of this listing is the last couple sentences in the Zillow listing. The zoning presents the possibility of building as many as six or more dwelling units on the property,

subject to the approval of the proper authority. Ladies and gentlemen, this house, after seeing what happened at 303 Alderman Road, is primed to be knocked down and for density to be built in its place. The owner of this property saw what happened at 303 Alderman Road and far from coincidentally listed his or her house and said, let's see what happens. I'm going to take the address. I'm going to go to the Charlottesville GIS

and I'm going to give you a little history on this project. It's public record. Anyone can do this. This is far from speaking out of turn. This is absolute public record. I got the address copied. I got the GIS open. I got the GIS open. I put it in there. I go to search.

And you see the owner is the agent himself. Bob Durr, Real Estate 3, owner, Robert Durr. You see that? They've had this property for 25 plus years. This property. He is in the business of real estate and has an assessed value of $755,000. Are we going to see 303 Alderman Road a few houses down? Fair question. Next question I

have for you, the viewer and listener. If 307 Alderman Road follows the path of 303 Alderman Road, how many other Lewis Mountain home owners will scurry to a local agent and list their house. If I was an enterprising Lewis Mountain real estate agent, or if I was an entrepreneurial realtor and car, I would be utilizing marketing materials, direct mail. I would be utilizing sweat equity, door-to-door, knocking on homeowners' front doors, some shoe leather. I would be utilizing social media. I would be utilizing food trucks to put my professional brand, and I see 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 real estate agents watching the program right now and a handful of mortgage brokers. If you're not putting your professional brand in front of the Lewis Mountain neighborhood

right now, you are missing an opportunity that is tangible and palpable. Because if 307 follows 303, others will follow suit. And I think the owners of Lewis Mountain deserve to have this explained to them. If a few more projects go the way of 303 Alderman Road, then your single-family detached house will lose Road, then your single-family detached house will lose some value as a single-family detached house because not many single-family detached buyers will want to purchase single-family detached homes

when they are surrounded by townhomes or apartments. And that's just a fact. That's not me being a NIMBY. That's me utilizing common sense. Not every single family detached homeowner that's going to spend a million dollars, roughly, wants to live amongst townhomes and apartments. Folks can't argue with that statement. The ones that are first to market with listing their homes, and we've already had a few, Hillary Lewis Murray, head of the Neighborhood Association, sold and listed last year and got top dollar. The house right next to hers, darted students, graduates, sold, listed, top dollar. Another one came on the market last year, over $2 million, top dollar. Those three transactions,

the first to market that cashed out at peak performance. 303 Alderman Road, for the condition it was in, probably cashed out at close to peak performance. The value of 303 was the fact that it was a quarter lot with roads on two sides of it. Agents target the neighborhood. Brokers target the neighborhood. 307 Alderman Road, an asking price of $925,000, the Zillow traffic off the chain, a 1,329 square foot home that is 76 years old, Judah. Wow.

With an asking price of $925. What's your bet on what happens to this property? I mean, if somebody can make money turning it into more spots, I don't see why they wouldn't. So you say increased density? Sure, yeah. Logan Wells-Colello is a realtor. She says it's directly next to 303, and its owner is an agent.

Absolutely correct. Logan Wells-Colello. He knows exactly what he's doing. He's in the game. John Blair, thank you for watching the program. Viewers and listeners, let us know your thoughts. This is a perfect segue into Nicole Scrooge's thread on Twitter.

Please someone let Nicole Scrooge know that I'm offering commentary on her thread on Twitter. If you could put that lower third on screen, Judah, that would be great. She's a real estate attorney. She's a developer of real estate, actually has done projects. She built two beautiful homes next to the Willard Mill storage facility. Beautiful homes, Nicole. She's helped facilitate business brokerage transactions that I've been a part of. She offered a thread on what the new zoning ordinance has done so far from

creating density now that we're at the six-month milestone of the NZO. We're six months in. I'm going to get to that thread in 15 seconds. Before I do, these comments from Deep Throat. I did not realize that 307 Alderman Road was next to 307 Alderman Road. This is what I mean by contagious development, he says. The owner of this property, who's a real estate agent himself, does not want to live next to a six units that are 40 feet tall that would tower his house in Lewis Mountain. He's a million

dollar house. Does he actually live there? He's the owner of the house. Yeah. Does he live there? I would imagine he lives there. Okay. You're saying is it a rental? No. It could be a rental. I'm just curious. He is the owner of the property. I would imagine he lives there, but it's a fair point that you made there. Could be renting it. That's a perfect segue into the flats at West Main towering over West Haven in Fifeville, which we will get to at the bottom of the show. Before we get to that topic, Nicole Skro's thread. I retweeted it if you want to see it. She says this, today marks six months since Charlottesville's new zoning ordinance became effective. This is a thread on submitted applications so far. She says, I'm using the

city permit portal, which is a little clunky so it's possible I missed something. Here's a link to search for yourself on what I'm talking about. She's put, dude I bet you she put an hour plus into this thread here. The first project, 133 Stribling. It was submitted on March 22nd. Developer Lee Construction Group, applicant Kirk Hughes and Associates. Previous versus current zoning, R2 to RB. Proposed density, 12 multifamily units. So this is above the 10-unit threshold. Second project, 485 14th Street Northwest. Proposed density, two three-bedroom apartments. This is below the 10-unit threshold.

Third project, 217 Oak Street. Proposed density, subdivision of excess yard off existing home to add additional buildable lot. Fourth project, 404 Oakmont, proposed density, subdivision of excess yard off existing home to add additional buildable lot. It's creating value, those two, for what they already own. Next project, number five, 1117 Harris Road, proposed density, accessory dwelling unit above garage. they're basically taking some unfinished space above a garage and try to turn it into an adu next project 303 alderman road we talk 303 alderman road r1 to rb proposed density six townhouses deep throat speculates these are a

million plus when they come to market for the math to pencil out with these six townhouses. The man knows real estate inside and out. Next project, and this is the doozy, 2030 Barracks Road. How hard would it be for you to get a Google map to show where 2030 Barracks Road is, you didn't put it on screen? I can do that. I should have asked you that in advance. Could you put it with a red circle around it or not? I know you're doing this on the fly. If that's too difficult, I totally understand. I can. You just need to give me a minute or two. 2030 Barracks Road, 2030 Barracks Road. I want to see where that's at and have the viewers and listeners see it. Screenshot, Google Maps, and red circle around it. 2030 Barracks Road. Here's the doozy. I love doing this talk show.

It makes me more informed of what's happening in the community. Doing this show. It makes me better at the real revenue streams that we do. 2030 Barracks Road was submitted on August 19th. That was two effing days ago. The developer at Greenshire Holdings, Jeff Moran. The applicant, Nicole says it's unknown. She can't view the development plan.

The previous versus current zoning, R1 to RB. The proposed density is 24 units, two zoning lots. And she adds some commentary in this tweet. I would love to see this one, but looks like the plan is not uploaded yet. It's probably not uploaded yet because it's not even 48 hours old. Then she highlights 1609 Gordon Avenue, proposed density nine units, right below the threshold of the affordable housing requirements that the city has with the new zoning ordinance. And then she highlights front of the program, Roger Voisinet, who came on this show to talk 1317 East Market Street in the Woolen Mills neighborhood. That's going to be three

additional lots in the rear yard. Basically a house, it's going to have three additional lots. So three new units complementing one existing unit. All of these are small potatoes. All of these are, frankly, the antithesis of what Livable Seville and other housing activists said would happen if we relaxed or loosened the zoning code. They said if you relax or loosen the zoning code, you will have significantly more supply. Significantly more supply will create housing affordability. We have not seen that happen.

I'm going to make a compelling argument later in the program how the flats on West Main are a microcosm of how additional supply does not create affordability around the neighborhood. But I'll table that for now. There's one project, 2030 Barracks Road, that can be the flag waiver, the champion, the I'm dying on this hill for zoning activists, for new zoning ordinance champions. If 2030 Barracks Road, and let me know when you have that screenshot so we can, I want to see where it is as well. If that becomes 24 units, you have a project that could be the first true density birther, the first true density materializer with the new zoning ordinance. The other ones, I'm not throwing shade on the other ones. The other ones are, you can count them on two hands.

And they're all focused for the most part of staying under that threshold, that affordability, that affordable housing threshold. Ten percentage, ten points of units on developments of 10 units or more must be tied to an AMI of 60% for 99 years. I mean, that math doesn't pencil out. That's why Neil Williamson, the president of the Free Enterprise Forum, is Neil watching today? That's why Neil Williamson has said we absolutely have to change the affordable housing requirements of the new zoning ordinance for us to see projects that are 10 units or greater. I want to thank Nicole for putting this thread together. Deep Throat says it's

behind the CBS. Oh my god it's that house? Jesus. I should have known that. God, is my wife watching this program? I feel like we lucked out on this. I didn't even realize. I should have known this. What was the address of the one that Bob Hendrick had? The former attorney of UVA, Deep Throat. Can you put that in the thread?

I toured, before we purchased just west of the city, we toured a house on Barracks Road that Nest associate broker Bob Hendrick had for sale, a beautiful brick Georgian behind CVS. We did not win this deal. Another family that was very pro-bicycle riding won the deal. We lost it. The house, fantastic bones and a great lot. And it had this huge park

next to it. 2028 Barracks Road was the house we didn't win. Thank you. 2028 Barracks Road was the house we didn't win. I'm going to go to the GIS. God, I fucking love doing this show. 2028. You got the map, J-Dubs? You're making moves. Judah's making moves over there. 2028 Barracks Road was the house that we looked at purchasing. Owned by previously Tim Heafey. Maps on screen.

Judah's got the map on screen. Judah, you're on point today. Look at the screen, viewers and listeners. Red circle on 2030 Barracks Road. Behind the CVS, the shopping center across from Barracks Road Shopping Center. The house we toured previously owned by

Tim Heafey, who's an attorney. He served as an investigator, the lead investigator for the House Select Committee on the January 6th attacks, McGuire Woods Guy, U.S. Attorney Guy, Western District of Virginia. He authored a report commissioned by the city of Charlottesville on its handling of the August 12th

Unite the Right rally and served as an assistant Virginia attorney general and as a counsel for the University of Virginia before taking a leave of absence from both positions in August 2021 after being appointed as chief investigative counsel for the United States House Select Committee on the January 6th attack. He owned 2028 Barracks Road. We looked at 2028 Barracks Road. We looked at 2028 Barracks Road. It ended up selling for $1,305,000, $1,305,000. And there was this massive lot next to it that was positioned in a way when 2028 Barracks Road was for sale,

a massive lot that would not be developed. That massive lot has since been purchased. It's 2030 Barracks Road, which is in Nicole Scrooge's Twitter thread. And 2030 Barracks Road, directly behind the CVS on Barracks Road Shopping Center, directly

behind the CVS across from Barracks Road Shopping Center, is now being, now has an application, now has a permit in that has what appears to be the largest density potential or proposed 24 units since the new zoning ordinance was birthed. 24 units directly behind the CVS across from Barracks Road Shopping Center. This is a conversation that I've had. I knew you were going to say this, deep throat.

The owners of the real estate off Barracks Road, and this is Barracks Road that's tied to Rugby Road. You're talking million-dollar-plus Tony and Posh homes. They had an opportunity to potentially pool their resources and purchase 2030 Barracks Road, this lot that is going to be developed potentially to 24 units. They did not. Furthermore, the owners of 2028 Barracks Road, who purchased the property in December of 2023, had an opportunity to buy this vacant lot for $500,000, $600,000 to keep development from happening. They did not. I understand Judah scoffs over here. He's like, oh, it's just another $500,000, $600,000.

Is that what the scoff was there? No, no. I was surprised that they would be, they would lack the foresight to take advantage of something like that. I don't, maybe it's not lack of foresight. Maybe it's $500,000 or $600,000, $700,000. That's fair, too.

It's a big chunk of money. It could be what you said. It could be a big chunk of money. It could be lack of foresight. Maybe it's $500,000 or $600,000 or $700,000. That's fair, too. It's a big chunk of money. It could be what you said. It could be a big chunk of money. It could be all of the above. Surprised that the neighbors didn't do it either. But I'm going to tell you right now. Maybe everybody was thinking that it was somebody else's responsibility. Maybe everybody was thinking that it was somebody else that should do it. And frankly speaking,

this is what happens when you don't have a very strong homeowners association in place. A strong homeowners association can organize and galvanize and quickly purchase land that's got developmental upside. I've seen this firsthand. I previously lived in the Redfields neighborhood

in Southside Charlottesville on Rockledge Drive. And I watched the Homeowners Association and Redfields purchase a swath of acreage to keep development from happening. And then they carved the swath of acreage into some of the most fantastic trails to navigate and walk. Redfields, one of the best neighborhoods in Albemarle County. Houses go on the market for a few days and they trade right away. Phenomenal neighborhood. If that

swath of acreage in Redfields had been developed, and if the homeowners association had not have acted quickly to purchase it, it would not be nearly the quality of life or upside or value that it is today because it would have been a cluster duck, quack quack, when it comes to rooftops and houses. Barracks

Road, this area, did not have the organization in play of a true homeowners association. And they saw, before their very eyes, a swath of land get purchased by a developer. Nicole Skrow has highlighted it. Greenshire Holdings, Jeff Moran, who is going to use the new zoning, R1 to RB, to build 24 units behind the CVS. Were they lied to, though? Or were they not sophisticated enough to see what actually happened?

I will say when we looked at 2028 Barracks Road, and this is just what I experienced firsthand, and my wife, when we toured 2028 Barracks Road, it was positioned in a way that 2030 Barracks Road, this empty field, would never be developed. It was positioned to us that way. And some people would say, trust but verify.

Maybe we lucked out not winning this, not getting this house, because I know my wife would not be super keen on 24 units next to where her kids are learning to ride their bicycles and kicking a soccer ball in the backyard man Kate shorts watching the program the queen of ivy she says I think the neighbors are suing the 2030 neighbors they are not

happy there are some of those neighbors currently watching the program right now. If some of those neighbors can put in the feed whether there's a lawsuit going on on 20, 30, I will relay that commentary without doxing your spot or your Bill McChesney says, that would be nuts to build those units there. Folks will not like that. And he says, I don't see council buying this. They will think that those well-heeled people... They will think that those well-heeled people

deserve to suffer. So you think, Bill... Well-heeled. What? Well-heeled. Yeah, well-heeled people deserve to suffer so you think bill healed what well healed yeah well healed does he saying that he thinks the wealthy deserve to suffer or not i don't understand it from his comment there it's not super clear oh man it's effing nuts fantastic thread from nicole sc from Nicole that you guys should read. Any comments that you want to offer here, Jdubs? We'll get to John's comment here in a matter of moments on PRN. Anything you want to add, Jdubs? No. what's the next headline next headline I think I get what Bill McChesney is saying what's he saying

that council will approve it or not I think he's saying that council is not going to touch this he's saying in terms of buying this out, like they did with the Ravana land, and like they're helping to do with the cotton park. Got it. He's saying they're going to say,

you know, they deserve what they get. They got money. Screw them. That's a hell of a topic right there. That's a damn good topic from the mayor of McIntyre. Is 2030 Barracks Road more dirt that the city could purchase

to kibosh development just like it did with Wendell Wood down by the banks of the river, Rivanna River, or how it helped with the bridge loan, Habitat for Humanity by the Carleton Mobile Home Park. They could, but

as per Bill McChesney's comment, why would they? Well, is that fair? Is Bill McChesney Thank you, Bill. This is a great comment. That's a topic for another show. If the city council, if the neighbors in Barracks. If the city council, if the

neighbors in Barracks Road go to city council and they say, you went and purchased that land by the Rivanna River to keep development from happening and you offered a bridge loan at Habitat for Humanity to keep

a trailer park from being developed with a $7 million acquisition on the table. You've got to do the same thing for us on Barracks Road because we don't want these 24 units in a gully by the CVS with no road infrastructure in place. And if City Council says no to that, is that a perception crisis for City Council? Sadly, I think they've got...

City Council is watching the program right now. I think they've got at least reasonable reasons for doing what they did in the other two cases, whereas in this one, I feel like there's less justification for it. I can see them refusing to do something like that and not end up looking... Why do they have less of a justification? What would the justification be in buying this land?

Just because somebody doesn't want it developed behind them? What was the justification of the bridge along with the Carlton Mobile Home Park? Affordable housing. Wouldn't more density instead of three years of mobile homes create more affordable housing? New zoning ordinance, you increase the density, you increase the supply, you make affordability happen. Not necessarily.

How about the land by the Rivanna River? What about? Not necessarily. How about the land by the Rivanna River? What about? More density. More density, more supply, more affordability. Why not there? Well, the arguments for them buying the land as they did were A, to protect the neighborhoods downstream on the floodplain that would be affected by construction upstream from them and possibly create more possibility of issues the next time we have flooding along the Ravana.

Fair point. I'll counter that point. Barracks Road is turning into a bike-protected thoroughfare. They're eminent domaining land on Barracks Road and turning it into bike lanes. There's a website all about this online. I bet you I can find it right now. Barracks Road, Charlottesville, bicycle. Let me see if I can find it. BarracksEmmettImprovements.com

if you want to know what I'm talking about that's the website barracksemmetimprovements.com they're taking people's land and they're building a bike protected lane on Barracks Road connecting Barracks Road Shopping Center

to Rugby and the rest of the city they're spending all this effort and money to do that just to have 24 units constructed and have that bicycle project impacted negatively for potentially months, if not a year plus to come. Then the risk and danger of adding the traffic and vehicles of 24 units tied to a bicycle thoroughway. That's not enough leverage or evidence?

Or you think the Rivanna River is far more compelling and you think 60 mobile homes is far more compelling? Or are the activists in Charlottesville going to say, we want the density to happen next to the rich people? This is a perfect spot for it to happen. Well, I think the people in the neighborhood that would come before city council would have to make the argument

about connecting this to the bike lanes, wouldn't they? I think I just made that argument. Did it on the fly during a talk show. But you're not them and you didn't make it to the city council, so it's worthless. Unless they can turn that into a compelling argument and bring it before city... How hard is it to do that?

You've answered your own question. Okay, I'm not trying to be combative here. Their owners of Barracks Road are watching the property right now. Hey, city council, you have this website, barracksadmitimprovements.com. You're trying to make Barracks Road a key bicycle artery for the city. This guy is trying to do 24 units right on top of

your key bicycle artery in the city. This will impact safety of your key bicycle artery. It's also on a gully behind a pharmacy. You can't say we want bicycle safety and then put

24 units in their vehicles that go with it on the bicycle artery. Is it actually splitting the artery? It's right on the artery. It's the gateway to the artery. And then you put it in front of council. And if council says, no, we're not going to buy the land, then you push back and say, hey,

you bought the land by the Rivanna River and the High Street neighborhood, and you bridge loaned the mobile home development to help Habitat save 65 mobile homes for 36 months. What gives? This is a catch-22. We said with the bridge loan, with the mobile home park, and we said with the city buying the dirt by the river to keep Bo Carrington and Wendell Woods project from materializing, we said and the councilors are watching right now that it was setting a nasty and dirty precedent that was going to be used against them. We said that was going to happen on the show. I'll bet you 50 bucks, you want to take that bet? I'll bet you 50 bucks right now that neighbors in the Barracks Road neighborhood organize, galvanize, and strategize

and say, this bicycle improvement artery is being constructed right next to these 24-unit proposal and you should buy this land or kibosh that project. You want to take that bet? No. Why don't you want to take that bet? No.

Why don't you want to take that bet? I mean, it's fairly safe to assume that they're going to try to stop this from happening, right? And don't you think they're going to try to stop this project, this from happening by, in part, utilizing the Barracks Improvement Project bicycle artery? They may. I don't know. I'd have to look

more into the Barracks Intersection Improvement because I don't see where the bike trail is supposed to be. What do you mean? Are you on the website? Yeah.

We can try to play it this is a great topic for tomorrow's show let's see it's right there here it is scroll down yeah that's a map that doesn't really give us any information. That's just a Google map.

There's 20, 30 barracks road. Yeah, but that's about the intersection. That's not about the bike lane. The bike lane is going to go right down barracks. And they're going to build an additional turning lane right here. All right, well then I think that's a poor argument though. Why? Because.

They're going to allow 24 units to be built on a bike lane? It's not going to be built on the bike lane. The bike lane's in the road. How are the construction, the bulldozers and the dump trucks and the pickup trucks and the jackhammers and the concrete, aren't they going to go through the bike lane to build the project? I mean, are you being serious right now? It's the same argument they made with getting into the Rivanna River. The High Street neighborhood made the argument that for a year plus,

you're going to have dump trucks and construction equipment going down High Street. But that wasn't the only argument. That was one of the key arguments they made. They said heavy equipment should be going down High Street and cutting through our neighborhood. It's only two lanes. It's going to impact our quality of life. There's no entrance point. Pretty sure that's why Bo Carrington bought the double horseshoe saloon as an entry point for his project.

Has since sold the double horseshoe saloon to the owners of the Rivanna River Company. Okay. Hey, 24 units on Barracks Road. Let's send some dump trucks and some heavy machinery and some bulldozers and some backhoes and some concrete and about 1,000 F-350s cut through the bike lane and down a two-lane road. Seems like a pretty compelling argument to me. We should say, let's table that topic for tomorrow. We can pick apart the website.

Let's write this down. I'll write it down, too. We can both research it. Viewers and listeners, you too. BarracksEmmettImprovements.com We'll ask for some compelling commentary from the Barracks Road neighborhood that's watching the show.

And we'll talk about 24 units potentially next to million-plus mansions. The Blue Ridge neighborhood right across from Barracks Road, there's houses on Barracks Road as you're going to Barracks Road shopping center. There's houses on the road, Barracks Road. My wife and I looked at 2028. And then there's the Blue Ridge neighborhood across from Barracks Road. Some heavy, heavy hitters live in the Blue Ridge neighborhood. Those heavy, heavy hitters,

I'm talking like the power players of Charlottesville live in the Blue Ridge neighborhood on the other side of Barracks Road. I'm very curious to see how those power players handle this. Because 24 units of traffic on that road? Let's go to John Blair. He's got two comments. His photo on screen. We'll get to the flats as well. God, today's show had so much content. We're already at the one-hour marker. He says this. First, Jerry, less than.2 miles from Pro Granada's downtown Stanton restaurant, there is a new upscale restaurant by Ian Bowden. I know of two Charlottesville couples that have already gone to this restaurant, Maud and the Bear, and have raved about this restaurant. I'd offer this. Downtown Stanton is probably not quite the same

as Belmont. The housing stock is in pretty good shape, so there's not a lot of gentrification opportunities available, but it's still prime for growth. Here's a link to Maud and the Bear, and he shares a link on my LinkedIn page. Follow me on LinkedIn, ladies and gentlemen. John Blair offers great commentary there. You should follow John Blair as well. He also says this, Jerry, I think the fundamental issue with this upzoning debate in Charlottesville and other cities nationwide is this. In the end, real estate and housing are market-based. In fact, American real estate is one of the biggest markets in the world. The government simply cannot dictate outcomes in this space.

Amen, brother. 1,000%. 1,000%, 1,000%. Except on Rivanna River and at the mobile home park. And maybe on Barracks Road. We're going to have to save the jobs being lost in the city of Charlottesville. Give them a tease on the jobs being lost in the city of Charlottesville. Give them a tease on the jobs being lost in the city of Charlottesville and what's happening, Judah. Let's see. The data that I saw showed that jobs are going down in Charlottesville and going up in Albemarle County. And I believe there were some institutional moves as well. The city of Charlottesville is losing quality jobs, and Albemarle County is gaining them. The city of Charlottesville's Economic Development Authority likes to champion storefronts that are being filled on the downtown mall. Yeah. That's re-assimilating folks that have done hard time into the community. The parks and recs department.

The cell phone provider of folks that are on financial margin. Some of the businesses, some of the storefronts that are being filled are not the businesses best suited on the mall. I also have pushed back on the economic development authorities strategy to create the economy or to drive the economy forward. A strategy rooted in diversity, equity, and inclusion. I push back on that as well. We're seeing jobs head to Almaro County. We'll talk about that tomorrow. I want to close with conversation about the flats. Sean Tubbs, excellent article in the Seville Weekly about the flats, if you want to get that lower third on screen. A couple of bullet points for you. This is the 10-year anniversary of the flats apartment tower. This is the apartment tower that

was previously home of World of Beer that is currently home to Mexicali Restaurant, a fantastic eatery owned by Johnny Ornelas and River Hawkins. The flats is eight stories. It has 595 beds. And this past year, $821,000 plus in tax revenue generated. Actually, in 2024, the tax bill, $821,143.96. That's a lot of money. To put that in perspective, Johnny Dewberry, the extorting emperor of empty lots, has a tax bill of under $100K for his skeleton on the downtown mall. The flats has generated $6,350,000 in taxes since it was built. Corn Capshalls Company brought the flats to market. It's now owned by an LLC called Madison Loft that paid $77.5 million for the building in 2016. I want to close with this about the flats.

I want to close with this commentary. In a 4-1 vote, DeeDee Smith, the only counselor in 2012 to vote against this project. The entire concept of the special use permit to allow eight stories to be built with 595 bedrooms in the center of West Main, one of the most important gateways in the city, the gateway to the university and the gateway to the downtown mall. Dee Dee Smith, vote no.

She said, why are we going to put an apartment tower with expensive student housing so it can shadow West Haven and other public housing elements. That's what she said. She was quoted in the CVO Weekly today as saying this,

Charlottesville was told that a large student complex on West Main would moderate rents across town, stimulate a vibrant mixed-use community, and reintegrate West Haven and Fifeville into Main Street. D.D. Smith said, unfortunately, few, if any, of these benefits have occurred. This is a microcosm of the new zoning ordinance, a special use permit to build eight floors and 595 bedrooms with the concept that it would create affordability and take pressure off

of Fifeville, take pressure off 10th and Page, and take pressure off of Fifeville, take pressure off of Tenth and Page, and take pressure off of Star Hill. In 10 years since the flats have been built, multiple other apartment towers have been built as well. The Standard and the Lark on West Main. Three apartment towers on that stretch on West Main, one of the most important gateways in Charlottesville, with a boatload of beds and doors within the apartment towers.

And nothing, nothing from those three apartment towers has done anything to alleviate the pressure on Fifeville, 10th and Page, and Star Hill. Neighborhoods that are actively being targeted by developers and builders. Because when were those ever in competition? What do you mean?

I mean, when putting up a bunch of flats, how is that ever a competition with Fifeville and Tenth and Page and those other neighborhoods? It's the same theory that the housing activists are using. If you build bedrooms and doors, the UVA students will take them, which will take pressure off of 10th and Page, Fifeville, and Star Hill. If you build beds and doors, the UVA students will take them so locals can go elsewhere. That's not what has happened. 10th and Page, Fifeville, and Star Hill have become targets for developers and flippers and targets for investors. And that's created affordability issues for Teth and Page, Fightville, and Star Hill. The increased supply does not stabilize prices. The population is coming to the city too fast.

It's Housing Crisis. And it's been very interesting so far. And a lot of it explains why just building new houses is not going to change anything. Of course. That's what it is. The Wednesday edition of the I Love Siebel show. We'll table some of these topics tomorrow. Thank you

kindly for joining us. Judah Wickower, Jerry Miller. So long, everybody. Thank you.