The Iced Coffee Hour - Confronting The Streamer Making $2 Million A MONTH

Episode Date: June 25, 2023

UNBOUND MERINO: Use code ICEDCOFFEE for 10% off your first Unbound Merino purchase at https://shrsl.com/43uwv FACTOR: Use code ICH50 to get 50% off your first Factor box at https://bit.ly/43H9yUQ! NEW: Join us at http://www.icedcoffeehour.club for premium content - Enjoy! Add us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jlsselbyhttps://www.instagram.com/gpstephanhttps://www.instagram.com/alex_nava_photography Official Clips Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeBQ24VfikOriqSdKtomh0w For sponsorships or business inquiries reach out to: [e-mail] TIMESTAMPS: (00:04:32) - Becoming A Twitch Partner (00:06:34) - Amouranth's Job As A Princess (00:09:16) - Transitioning To Twitch (00:13:41) - Business Model From Family (00:21:37) - Starting With Cosplay (00:26:10) - Sleep Streaming (00:34:23) - Selling Bathwater And Fart Jars (00:36:37) - The Ethics Of Porn (00:40:46) - Letting Your Kids Do OnlyFans (00:42:02) - The Arson Incident (00:48:38) - The Upcoming Boxing Match (00:57:40) - Marker 19 (00:57:44) - How Many People Work For Her (01:02:23) - Pickle Rick Floaties (01:07:20) - Biggest Insecurity (01:09:29) - Biggest Threat To Humanity (01:11:31) - Eating Meat Is Unethical For Podcast Inquiries, please contact [e-mail] *Some of the links and other products that appear on this video are from companies which Graham Stephan will earn an affiliate commission or referral bonus. Graham Stephan is part of an affiliate network and receives compensation for sending traffic to partner sites. The content in this video is accurate as of the posting date. Some of the offers mentioned may no longer be available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Even though you might know her from her hot tub streams or a vice documentary where she shares her one and a half million dollar monthly income, behind the scenes, she's a business savant who owns multiple gas stations, Texas real estate, and one day has a dream of opening up an animal sanctuary. I was running a character company for children's birthday parties. Did you own the company? Yes. That you did.

Wow. I didn't expect to learn so much about marketing and business from this, but I did, and you will too. Although before we go into that, Jack, I have to say you've been wearing that shirt nonstop. Every single time I've seen you recently, been wearing that exact same shirt. I can wear it like five to six times, maybe tens of times, and it doesn't stink. So that's a huge plus for me. You know, it's funny, I was wearing the exact same shirt for like days in a row until Macy made me take it off and put it in the watch.

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Thank you so much Unbound Marino and back to the podcast. Thank you for having us over. You have a beautiful house. Thank you. You gave us these chalices. Yeah, these are actually the prop maker from Game of Thrones. These are the Queens goblets from Kleeves. Kings Landing.

Beautiful. Where do you get these? Etsy. Really? Yeah, they're on Etsy. Even this is like so fancy. I saw these for sale at Fred Siegel and they're like $200 each. That was Amazon.

It was like a pack of eight for $60. And there we go. Yeah, no, way better. Very fancy. Well, thank you so much for having us. We've had an amazing day so far. We went to a ranch. We saw horses.

That was the first time I've ever pet a horse, I think. Congratulations. So, yeah. It was really nice. You live streamed, which is crazy. Yeah. That was scary. That was horrifying. Graham and I were so nervous about that.

If you get killed by the horse, it's live on the stream. That's true. That's true. Yeah. You had a really nice chat, though, on the stream. Yeah, they were pretty friendly. Yeah, I wasn't expecting that. I was expecting a whole bunch of just like, just angry comments and like mean remarks. But like, I went on there.

Everyone is super nice. And then Alex goes on, and I'm reading the comments. Everyone was like, W. Alex. Go Alex. Hi, Alex. It was really friendly. I wasn't expecting that. Yeah, yeah. No, when I have the animal streams, that's when the wholesome people come out.

Really? The degenerates don't care about those streams. They'll come trash talk to my gameplay or my bikini or something. But when it comes to animals, everyone's pretty nice. Is there like a time of day thing where in the afternoon? Like you get more of like the friendly people, whereas at night you get like the DGens or like. Morning is way more friendly. Really?

Okay. Because Europeans, they're a nicer culture. Got it. They're a finer breed of chat, you know? Yeah. So tell us a bit of your back. How do you get started doing all of this? Well, I started in 2016.

I started doing Twitch back then, because at the time it was already cospling a lot. I had like a little bit of an Instagram following, a little bit of Facebook. Deviant Art used to be a like art photography platform. I don't know if you remember that. I do. Back in the day. Now no one cares about it. But I had a tiny following there.

But back then, it wasn't really saturated like it is now. So a small following was still like, whoa, you have a thousand. followers. Wow, right? Nowadays, though, too many people. So Twitch was trying to expand their creative program. Now, people watching this now will be like, wait, that was a thing. Exactly. They stopped hearing about it pretty fast. But they invited cosplayers to it, and they wanted us to make costumes on livestream in their creative category. And the incentive was that if you come on and you create costumes, we will lower the amount required to hit partnership of you counts because it used to be 500 viewers concurrent gaming to get partner but with

creative it was only 100 concurrent viewers so what's a partnership do it gives you sub benefits you get like more of the revenue split you get emotes and stuff so basically you can monetize your channel at that point but until then could you could you monetize it all or just wasn't as good only donations got it okay so you didn't get any sub money no not for a partner Yeah. Really? Wouldn't that un-incentivized people from, like, subbing, though? Well, they couldn't subscribe unless you're-

Oh, you couldn't subscribe? Right. Oh, wow. Yeah, now they have an affiliate program, but before there was no affiliate. It was just partnership or bust, basically. Interesting. Yeah. Okay, so that got you onto Twitch?

Yeah. And then after they stopped doing the creative program push, IRL category started searching up, so I kind of just switched into that with my partnership already that I had gotten kind of like on easy street or whatever because I kind of got in there before most people could and so that kind of propelled me forward and then IRL was just going off which is in real life people who don't know Twitch and that was when you started having people doing non-game play activities like going out kind of like live vlogging yeah at conventions or traveling or just talking to people to to the chat without playing a game was considered IRL yeah

was that common before Ice Poseidon because he was the one that kind of introduced me to that whole like He was it Andy Milanakis. Yeah. I think. He did a lot. Yeah. And we would see him because I used to work in Sunset Boulevard and I would see him with the selfie stick. You would see him? Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, because he was walking around Sunset Plaza and he had the selfie stick with like three cameras and like light shining on him. That's crazy. And he was always like walking up and down the street and then he'd go to like a restaurant and just sit there and place it down on the table. And it was usually like just him and he'd be talking to it while ordering food is wild. Wow. Yeah. That's cool.

But I was, but I was always too afraid to go up and say hi. Oh, yeah, yeah, but you knew who he was. I knew, yeah, oh, yeah. He's hard to not recognize because these people were just like, who was this 12-year-old out here? Yeah, who was this 40-year-old lady? Yeah, I remembered it from MTV. Yeah, the MTV show.

So what were you doing at the time to sustain yourself, or was Twitch enough? Well, White Roof for Twitch, I was running a character company for children's birthday parties, so, like, it would be Disney without saying Disney, right? The copyright free terms for Cinderella, like Snow White, else and on like frozen you know

so you would dress up yeah I would dress up and then I had girls too who would work for me and that we would all go to parties and do events and we would make a wish foundation stuff we would do like festivals

around Houston I got to be on like a TLC show the little couple they had a birthday party and they hired me to be there as the Snow Queen Elsa it was really cool because I got to throw the first pitch

in the Astros game as Elsa because they had like a mommy and me day Sure. So it was really cool opportunities like that. Did that make good money? It was pretty good money for like a non-social media. Now we all have our expectations of what's good money. It's completely skewed.

But back then it was like $200 for an hour. Are you said that's fantastic. $200 an hour. Even with social media money. I mean, that's still decent. Right, but only on weekends. Right. But still, but like you do that like two hours, like $400 a weekend is fantastic.

Yeah, it was crazy. Good margins too because then you would get the costume and you could wear that for like a year. or two years until they had to replace it. Right. So it was actually incredibly profitable for the time. But the unfortunate thing is, well, fortunate for me, not fortunate people who stayed in the industry. Things like COVID are a big killer of that industry. Yeah.

Because then people just stop having parties for a year, two years, three years. So that really sucked. But fortunately, I made the switch before COVID hit. Yeah. Yeah. But it was super fun because I would get to go to these extravagant parties. It would be like big homes like this sometimes, like in nice neighborhoods. And they would have a care.

marriage waiting for Cinderella to come in. So it's like you've got to be worshipped and get paid. What were the kids like when they hired this out? Most of the kids were nice and respectful. Oh yeah. Most of the kids would listen to you more than they'd listen to their parents. They respected the royalty. I believe it.

Wow. So how much would the parents spend in one of those parties? I'd imagine this is like a $3,000 kids birthday party. Oh, probably more than that when you get into like the River Oaks neighborhood. It's like they're really nice neighborhoods for Houston area. Like, Jesus, those houses alone are probably like five to $10 million range. You can imagine how much they throw at a kid party. I think some of them honestly cost at least $10,000 for like a four-year-old's birthday party.

That's great. I don't even remember being four. Yeah, because they would have multiple princesses. They would have the horse-drawn carriage. They would have the face painter. They would have the bouncy houses. They would have the catering, the decorations. Sometimes they would bring in a petting zoo.

Oh. This is like a birthday party, a standard birthday party? For the rich person, yes. The rich people have. Yeah. Okay, so you were doing that work and then you switched over to Twitch. When did you make that switch? What was like the Twitch income versus that income that you can justify going all in on Twitch?

Well, I was doing both for a bit and then I guess I was doing Twitch for about six months. So beginning of 2017 is when I kind of decided that I'm going to switch from going to the parties myself to doing the streaming thing and I'll just send my girls out. So I was still managing it, but I was streaming full time instead. Did you own the company? that you did. Wow. Yeah.

And so what would you pay the other princesses? Like they would just pay you a package deal and you'd pay the people underneath you less. Yeah. Like starting out was like probably 60 an hour. And then it's still pretty good if you're just like dressing up. And then it would go up to like 75 or 80 an hour too if they've been with me for a while. Yeah. How did people find you?

Did you market? That's the thing. I got into it via Facebook advertising, a little bit of Google advertising. too. That's actually how I got the idea to just go full time into social media because I was already using the skills of social media marketing with my business. And I was thinking like this is the future is everything's going to be online moving that way. If I have this skill, I should just go into social media full time, go straight to the source rather than just using it to market a limited business that can't really grow beyond Houston without a bunch of hassle and headache thinking about

licensing and where do you get that mindset though? Because not everyone thinks like that. Where did that start. You have parents that thought that way. You saw someone else do that and you're like, that's a good idea. I think I saw it mostly because I would be in a lot of these cosplay groups and a lot of the cosplayers were doing this kind of thing too, but in other states like California. And they would be really popular. California was a big one. I think Florida was a big one where the parks are, right? So they would know, they would be able to go to the park frequent enough to know what the characters look like, know how to model the costumes, know how to act and everything, but then be able to bring that into like a party atmosphere. And it was a very hot market because it's so much cheaper for some parents to hire the

princess for 200 an hour than it is to take their whole family to Disney for the day. You know? And pay for all their friends. But like the business aspect of it. Like where do you get that from? I think. Were you like that growing up as a kid? No, no, no, no, no. I was not at all. I think it was just from watching, observing, like seeing how they were expanding their businesses and like how they were advertising. So I would get their Facebook advertisements like suggested. I would be like in their groups, actually have groups for it. So I was just watching and observing the different princess company groups and seeing how they were advertising and stuff.

And then I tried it myself and I found it very effective. I don't think it's nearly as effective now, Facebook advertising. They've raised prices a lot. But before I could put like $10 to $50 into a Facebook advertisement and make like $1,000 in party bookings. Although before we go into that, guys, sorry for the interruption. I do have to say that lately I've been taking my health a lot more seriously. I've been going to the gym, getting a good night to sleep,

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Have you always been interested in business? Not really, no. I think it just happened when I was like going to school for costuming, was looking for money on the side because eventually my dream was to do like Hollywood like costumes, you know, for marble or for like Lord the Rings type stuff. So I was kind of just trying to figure out how do I take my costuming skills right now and start making money because I'm not at that stage of my life. And then it kind of just rabbit hold me down into like the business side of costumes like with Prince's stuff and cosplay and that led to social media.

So it kind of just all like piled together unintentionally for me and I was just watching and observing and then trying it. I was like, oh. Did you ever have a normal job? The most normal was working at the opera in ballet making costumes, I guess. And then I worked for some other companies before doing my own Princess company.

I was just like a contractor, not really an employee, but I would be the performer without owning the business or owning the costumes. And then I was just I could run this. I can make better costumes than these. And they just kind of did it. Huh.

Were you a good student? Like throughout middle school, high school? Yeah, pretty good student, I would say. Yeah, I think high school I was like all in all the AP classes. And then for a while I was number one in my class. And then I got lazy and I dropped to number 20 when I graduated. But it was there was like eight to nine hundred kids in the class. So I guess it's still pretty good.

Why do you get lazy? Yeah. What happened there? Why do you get lazy? Senioritis? Yeah. Really? Yeah, I got tired of that.

I'm, yeah. But aspirations in high school were to become a costume maker for a. Yeah, so I realized like none of this matters. It seems like kind of like a flow, just like in one direction. You're like heading true north and you're like, okay, just stop here, stop here, stop here. But for the most part, you kind of like just like slowly progressed. Yeah, because I got involved in theater in high school. First I was like, do I want to be an actress?

And I was like, maybe. But I kind of like the aspect of dressing up and like the cruise. creation behind it. So then I was kind of leaning more towards into the costuming side of theater. Did your parents have any expectations of you of like, you know, you want you to be a doctor or a lawyer, like anything like, or were they like very free that you could pursue what you felt was best? They're pretty free. They just wanted me to figure it out so at some point I could stop living under their roof. Okay. They were not really picky though what I did. And I think that's standard for parents who also were not like particularly high achieving. because I know if your parent was like a lawyer or a doctor

had a very successful business. They like have expectations for you. But for my parents, my mom was a preschool teacher for like her whole career. And my father works with computers in IT but not like coding or anything crazy like that. Just like software testing. So it wasn't like either then

were super entrepreneurial or like super, I guess educated on like an advanced level with like doctorates and things like that. Did they ever teach you about? money? No, not really. How did you learn about money? I had to have like a good education even going through and running your own business. Yeah, a lot of it was, I had an uncle who was actually running his own small businesses, not like to anything super big scale, but that's kind of how I got

started, like learning about the business side and social media marketing because he had to do it. He was actually a dog walker. But it's like, how do you let people know about that? You have to start it with social media. So I would like listen to him, talk about money and stuff. And then I would kind of like do when I started doing my own business with the princess stuff I'd have to look around like on Google and like figure out things like how to do taxes and things like that so just like I learned as I went I didn't have like a formal education if I just need if I needed to figure something out I would just Google it we always self-reliant when I came to that sort of stuff yeah I was pretty self-reliant I guess because you know none of my family is particularly successful yeah so I don't have anyone to

turn to I was just like well let me just go to Google and YouTube and things like that and just try to have things explained to me because for me, it's like I went to school for costume design, which is also not particularly a good avenue for learning anything with finance or business related at all. So what do they teach you in costume design, just like what materials to use? I feel like that maybe this is insensitive. Here we go, Jack. I feel like, look, I take one semester, right?

And I learn what materials for what colors, for what, like, volume, like how voluminous you want something to be. That's kind of like, right? It wasn't that basic. It was more like, it's actually really interesting because it went through fashion history. So you learn different periods of like historical fashion like Georgian. You learn like the regency period, the Victorian age.

It's like super interesting to see how the fashion tastes evolved. And then it went from like being very basic like togas and stuff like with Greece. And then it evolved into let's put a bunch of layers on it. and shit all up and then it got very lax again in like the 1900s. Where do you think we're headed towards fashion? I was gonna ask that, yeah. I think in the future, we're gonna get in like,

it's not gonna be a wetsuit material like neoprene, but I think it's gonna be like a one suit you just step in and then you're entire, it's like a morph suit or whatever. I'm like more comfortable in utility wise. You know where it conforms and whatever you want it to look like that day, perfect fit.

Yeah, and then you can like, yeah, it's like super aerated and bringable and stuff like that. Yes. Yeah. I think we're going towards that honestly. I think we're going straight utility, and then people are going to think it's cool. I was about to say, I think we're going back to the 90s fashion.

That's what I was about to say. What does that look like? Oh, like old kind of right. In the immediate future, yes. It's so weird. Like the TikTok kids, they all look like my 90s. It's like big washed jeans. Yeah, the tie-dye and like, yeah.

High-waisted, yeah, like white sneakers. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, one day we're going to go back to the Ed Hardy days, where it's like the shirt designs, you know that's going to come back at some point. With the flames or whatever. with the, you know, jewels, it's gonna come back. Yeah, you used to wear that, huh? I had the shirts, the t-shirts that had,

like, the design prints on the one side. Looking back, it's awful. Yeah. What was I thinking with the baggy jeans? Yeah, it's a great look, man. So let's talk about the Twitch success. Was your growth linear? Was it exponential?

What methods did you use to grow on Twitch? Because I heard, we've had a couple Twitch people in here, right? I think one of them said, like, what you have to do is just stream for as long. as possible because like then people they like open up the stream and then they leave or they walk to the you know the nearby McDonald's or something but their stream is running like on the computer what strategies did you use to grow on Twitch? It's a bit complicated because while that in theory is the best way if you already have a following um that was what the algorithm will reward is you

stream you stream you stream and that will recommend you to more and more people because it's you're watched you're accumulating watch time even if you're not the most watch out of say like two people together. Say you both stream five hours. Just because somebody watches that person more and the five hours does not mean they'll get recommended more because what happens, they log off. If you keep going, you'll eventually surpass them. So even if you're not as popular, you know, with like view count or things like that, as long as you accumulate those minutes of watch time, it'll build up and now they'll recommend you more. At least it's how it's been working when I was like really popping off. This year I've been kind of sporadic because I've been moving and boxing and all those things.

but it's tough because there's no really discovery on Twitch other than the recommendation section or like if you're on a category page people don't send to scroll down the category it's like the top 10 what they can see within the browser window without scrolling that's what they pick on because people are lazy so you actually have to grow on other platforms

more where there is discoverability like TikTok is a great way now like Twitter Instagram that's how I agree was Twitter Instagram and then a little bit of YouTube but YouTube doesn't isn't like as easy for me because that's always changing the algorithm and it'll stop recommending if you're like too sexy. So what would you do? Would you just post like cosplay stuff and and then people just found you organically through those platforms and then routed you towards the Twitch? Yeah, and also my

Facebook cosplay page. But eventually I stopped doing cosplay as much because it just wasn't as profitable. It's actually, it was actually really sad, but that's just the way humans are. You would make this amazing armor piece super accurate. You would dress up as this character and you'd get maybe like 5,000 likes and then you dress up in a misty cosplay which is a tank top and booty shorts from Walmart that took you five minutes to put on and it's like 30,000 likes. My bother. Men are simple. Is most of the appreciation of cosplaying is that like coming from a male audience or is it a female audience? Is it like the intricacy of the costume itself or is it just the way it looks like what is the appeal? Because I've personally never been super interested in cospling but I'm trying to understand like what why people

like it. Well, I think the people that appreciate the art the most are probably women more than men because that seems to be like the type of people who go into it because it's like, wow, I'm making this thing. It's so cool. It's so crafty look. Ha ha ha. It's so fun. But they tend to do it more because they can monetize it, whereas it's harder for guys to monetize cosplay. So you end up getting just a bunch of women who are into it mostly. And then the audience, though, who looks at women's pictures and likes them and engages with them typically are men. And the men are going to respond more to the sexy character than they are, like the armored up,

authentic-looking world of Warcraft build, right? It just is, that's just the nature of sexuality, you know. Need a vehicle that isn't afraid to make a splash? That's the Volkswagen Touse. Capable and confident, the Volkswagen Touse is fit

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So it's tough for sure. Have you noticed that costumes for Halloween, if you look at women's costumes, it's like sexy, non-sexy, whatever. And then you look at men's costumes, banana. You know what I mean? It's like a peanut butter sandwich. It's got to be something funny or spooky. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. Funny or scary. Do you think that that's kind of going down the wrong direction? Because cosplay is more than about just being sexy, right? Yeah, I think the crafting part of cosplay definitely is more about being, making it for the art of it. Like if you compete, you do competitions at conventions. It's definitely for the art of it. Or if you can monetize, like if a gaming company hires you to cosplay a new character and, like, promo at at events or on social media,

then you can kind of get paid for the art of it. But for the most part, you know, the best monetization is always just going to be the sexy route. And so people will start doing this thing, like bikini versions of characters. Like, they'll just like make it more sexy if it's not a sexy character. Yeah, yeah. It makes sense.

To me, it's like I think I approach it from a very logical standpoint. If your goal is viewership, how do you gain the most viewership? If that's the way to do it, that's the way to do it. It's like, I just look at what works. You have to look at your motives, right? Are you trying to make the most amount of money that you can while you're young and then do whatever you want to enjoy? Or are you trying to share your love of the art and that's all you care about is sharing that love and finding people who also resonate. If you have other things going on in your life, you don't need it for money, whatever.

Or if you want to just go the harder route and monetize the actual character part. Because people will do that. They'll just have a different type of Patreon or whatever, or Etsy, if they do commissions themselves or if they do tutorials for making stuff. Like, it can be done. it's just typically not as much money as quickly. Yeah. Yeah. So it's perfectly reasonable.

Like if they want to do it, they can make a lot of money doing it compared to like a nine to five. Yeah. But we're not talking about like millions of month, only fans, low profit margins, low time spent, like just like super profitable in that direction. So it just spends what you want. Yeah. So how long did you think it took for you to make like six figures, like a six figure salary on a monthly basis on Twitch? Was it like six months a year? Oh, on Twitch, it's harder.

Because on Twitch, it didn't really start getting that to the six-figure mark from Twitch alone until Hot to Meta. That was, I think, 2021, I believe, yeah. And that kind of exploded. So I think after I crossed like 6,000 concurrent viewers or whatever at the time is when you started getting into the six figures. Six thousand concurrent viewers? Yeah. That's a lot. Yeah.

And I was only hitting the six figures. monetarily too because I was streaming for so long. So what was your schedule like? Like when did you begin to realize that like streaming more is better? I started realizing that around, I guess, late 2017, 2018, because I've been streaming like really long since then. Because when I first started streaming, I was doing maybe three to five hours at a time. Just trying it out, playing some games, cosplay, making costumes.

And then I rose it to like eight hours, ten hours, twelve hours. Sometimes I would do like 14, 18 hours. Sometimes I would be on even longer if I did a sleep stream, things like that. Could you explain a sleep stream? Where you literally sleep on stream. So you're streaming, you keep the camera on while you're sleeping. It's like a virtual slumber party. Guys, we should sleep stream tonight.

I would be down to sleep stream tonight. We don't have an audience, the stream to. Yeah, we just post on Instagrams. Like, hey, check out our sleep. No, I want the donations. Like, I want that on my stream on YouTube. Well, like, we just do it on Twitch. I don't want one dude just watching us the whole night.

Yeah, waiting for Alex to like roll onto his side. The same viewer. So what's the, okay, what's the appeal of sleep streams? Like, why do people tune into that? Different models, because for guys, they typically get more money doing it because their chat's trying to mess with them. And so their chat will be like playing React content. Like they'll be doing media share to try to wake the guy up

or just to make each other laugh. But girls' chats environments aren't quite. white is like, ha ha, bumping elbows, buddy, buddy. They're more like, I don't know what the word is, sexual, I guess. So they'll be like, like, what if she starts taking off her top right now? Forget she's streaming. Oh my God. If she forget she's streaming?

Yeah, if she forget she's live. But people are commenting this. Yeah, stuff like that. We're like, what I would do to her right now? Like, while she's sleeping. Some people are really creepy. And others are like, why are you guys watching this? Y'all are weird.

They're like criticizing each other for watching it while they're watching it. It's kind of funny. So do you get a good night of sleep when you're sleep streaming? Because I feel like I could just not sleep. I do. I have this incredible talent to fall asleep anywhere, regardless of how much light, how much noise, whatever's happening. So I can get a pretty good night's sleep.

I actually used to get more sleep doing that than not. Why? Because I would have chat hit sub goals to let me sleep longer to justify not being productive for those hours. Okay. Whoa. So I would get like 9, 10 hours of sleep. And how much would you make in a sleep stream? I don't know.

It's hard to quantify that because I never broke it down like that because it would just be one continuous like 24 hour, 40 hour stream. If you were to just guess. I'd say probably if you count just on Twitch, probably, you know, like a couple thousand dollars. But if you count like the conversions potentially to only fans while I'm sleeping because they're clicking on links and whatever, then maybe like 10 to 15,000.

That's wild. Yeah. So why not just do that every night? I would see like 10 grand a night and say, I may as well do this now. Like, I'm not going to do it forever, but like, hey, every single night. The scheduling gets complicated. And then also, because I have photoshoots and stuff,

I have to do like the next morning sometimes or if I'll have sponsorship things that I have to do. But couldn't you just end it when you wake up? Like wake up and be like, all right, stream. Thanks so much. I'm up now. See ya. That is an angle.

Potentially, maybe. That's a good idea. But maybe I just switch to I only stream my stuff. sleeping and then I enjoy the rest of my day. Yeah. You're working while you're sleeping. Has there been a time though where you've woken up and forgot that you were streaming or does that not happen? No, it's never

happened. So far. I don't do it as much. I don't know. I feel like if you do it too much it would become no longer novelty. Okay. But maybe what I should do instead is I should just invite girls over for sleepovers and we only stream us doing like getting ready for bed

activities, sleepover stuff and then we stop streaming when we wake up. Then you can call it sleeping with whoever in the title. Genius. That's a good idea. I think if you were to stream yourself sleeping, that's an untapped opportunity that I think so many people could get on because you're not doing anything anyway.

So you may as well be working while you sleep. I think that's the most useful. Why did you do, Alex? I'm not going to see myself. I'm just in general. It's a good idea. Over and over. Sleep stream only.

Like you started an hour before bed and then you end it like, you know, 30 minutes after you wake up. Who's gonna tune into that after like four times? Okay, so Graham has this idea in his brain. He's always been this way where he's just like do more, post more content. It's about the frequency and the volume. It works because it's a treat, right? It's once in a while people sleep.

I think that there's power. When the door is open, you walk through the door. That's what I think. And whether that's making more content. But you can leave the door open, right? No, I don't think so. I think social media is one of the, yeah. What could work to change it up while we're sleeping,

different girls coming over or sleeping, maybe hire people to come in and do random stuff the middle of the night. So people don't know what to explain. Yeah, like if you get like up to X amount and donations or whatever, like something happens or whatever. Yeah, like the top donations, like a mariachi band comes through the door

and just certain. Yeah, but you have to have one standby. Yeah, but you're making that kind of cost. Yeah, but you're making it back. You gotta really run the numbers on that. I just really don't think that like people would watch her every single night if she's just doing that every single night.

Yeah. Do you agree? Yeah, I do. Okay, all right. I think that's my, I mean, you're right. Okay. If it was with other people, maybe. What other kind of, like, variety streams would you do?

Because you jumped on the, what was it, the hot tub? Yeah. Did you come up with that? No, no. We've already been doing, like, pool streams, but one of the girls decided to do, like, inflatable hot tub, and they were doing it outside. And I didn't, the thing I did probably. was moving it inside where you can control the lighting, control the Wi-Fi, control everything.

You don't have to move ringlights outside. I'm just like, just put it in my room. With the hot stuff on the ground. And then that's what everybody started copying that because it is just so much easier. You don't depend on the weather. Your ring lights are already right there. You're right next to your setup. The Wi-Fi is better.

How long could you be in the jacuzzi for? 12 hours. 12 hours. How would you not turn into a prune? I would. You would? I just didn't care. Was it painful at all?

No. Because I would get out like everything. Graham would be just completely devastating. I'm just saying when you're in water for that long, your hands and feet shrivel up to a point where it's like it could be painful. It's not a painful. I never experienced that. What temperature was the water? Was it like a 95?

It would start at like 104 when feet heated up all the way. Yeah. But then throughout the day, it would if you don't want to have it on because it's really noisy. Yeah. It's like mer like the whole time. So I would turn it off when I start the stream. And then throughout the day, it would get down to like 70 degrees. Oh, wow.

Eventually, yeah. How much did your numbers go up when you started doing that? I went from like maybe like anywhere from like 4 to 5,000 viewers concurrently before the hot tub to then at one point it was hitting like 20, 22K. Yeah. 30K sometimes. Was that like COVID days? Yes.

Wow. Yeah, it was pretty crazy. But how do you? one up that? Because is there that pressure where it's like you're doing that well and you're like, what's next? How could I like keep on this the same path? Yeah, well, at the time, the drama aspect was kind of doing the job for us. We didn't really have to innovate much because people were acting like it was such a controversial topic like hot tubs, well, in the same category as me that looks so bad to sponsors, blah. They were like really angry about it. And so that drama of trying to

get the hot tubs banned, people complaining about it so much online, kind of kept the interests alive for the hot tip section. They gave viewers coming and be like, what is this thing they're doing? What is this stuff? Then they would like just start arguing on the chat, whether the hot tub should even be allowed on Twitch or not. And then when they finally, when Twitch decided to make the hot tip category and shove us all in there is when people really stopped doing it because the discovery went down.

Interesting. Yeah, what was the reason for the hot tub in the first place? I think it's just a way to kind of subtly convert people to your only fans. I did not find out about you through the hot tub drama that was going on. How I found out about you was this bathwater thing. Oh, yes. Now, when did this come into play? Because that made headlines.

I was like, oh, this person's selling bathwater. When did this come into play in terms of, like, was it when you first started Twitch? Was it in the middle of it? And also, did you actually, did you make sales? Yeah, I made a lot of sales. That actually was more recent compared to the rest of my career. I think that was last year, maybe like early 2022 or maybe late 21, somewhere like that. It was kind of blends in for me.

But there was a woman who was doing fart jar cells. Is it Bell? That was the original bathwater one. Okay. But there was a woman doing fart. jar sales at the time. And she was supposedly making a pretty good amount of money, like, like, I don't know, a couple hundred thousand dollars from it. But then she stopped one day, and she claimed that her diet to make her make so many fart jars hospitalized her. I think

she actually got COVID and changed the reason why she was in the hospital personally. But then she decided to switch to NFT fart jars, which were not as successful. And I don't know how that would work anyways. And so I kind of took over the vacant spot available for fart jar selling. I was like, well, now with her out of the market. Your competition. The demand is incredibly high. And I joined that.

And then I was like, well, I'm at it since I have all these jars. And I sit in a hot tub. I might as well sell my hot tub water. All right. So we'll go away, wait, wait, wait, all right. I want to ask first. First of all, how is the audio sound? Is she close enough?

I was going to ask it. She could just come in a little closer. Oh, shh. Sorry. We're leaving that in. We're leaving that in. Graham. Sorry about that.

Nice catch. See, if I did that, Graham would be, he'd be like, Jack, how could you? How could you, Jack? Because it slipped like this, and then I went to save it, and I overcorrected. Sorry about that. It'll make for a great clip. What do you think about the ethics of porn?

Is it ethical? Is it unethical? Because when we shot with Brett Cooper, she was sharing her opinion on why porn is unethical. Oh, what were her thoughts about? that. She thought basically it kind of like promoted the objectification of women and that it's not good for the young male mind to see women, especially like on your phone, you know, the high availability of porn just like on your mobile device. And the ease of it. Exactly. Wherever you want to watch it, you can watch it. And I think that she thinks it's also like corrupting a family unit because like then

guys can just like instead of finding a girlfriend or feeling an urge to find a romantic partner, just going on their phone and getting that instant gratification and moving to the next day. Yeah, I don't know. It just depends, I guess, what you're looking at. I can also see the side, though, where it's actually better for guys to be able to have that kind of sexual release, because, say, they're really bad at socializing, and they're not quite all there, they get that frustration, those urges out in private, instead of bothering women in real life, and potentially doing something crazy because they're so frustrated, you know. So I don't know. I can see both sides, I guess.

As far as the ethics of it, I don't think it's unethical if both people are consenting and they're happy about what they're putting out there and the amount of money they're getting paid or whoever's involved and it had to be two people, be an orgy, I don't know, or solo, whatever. I think nowadays it's actually even more ethical because instead of these big companies making porn and controlling the financial aspects of it and people getting ripped off who are at the performers, now they can just make their only fans and set their own prices to whatever they're happy with and do whatever they want on their own terms. it's actually getting more ethical as like the sexy platforms where the individual is able to monetize by themselves keep coming up so you argue that it could be a benefit for people watching porn specifically dudes because then maybe it like kind of it's that sexual release rather than releasing it at a time where it would be highly inappropriate yeah maybe they do have a date planned but they they they do their beforehand so then when they go at the date they're not just thinking about how to get in her pants only, right? Maybe that's like that release is done and they can actually focus on the

interaction if they do want a genuine connection rather than just being, you know, horn dogs the whole time because they're so frustrated. I don't know. I feel like it can only be beneficial because if it's was if porn didn't exist, they would find something to fap to still. I'd feel like the answer is not to remove fappable content. I'm sure even back in the caveman days, it's like scriptures on the cave and like, though they found like a raw. Mannerata go with like stick fingers on a wall of like doggy style. Yeah, prostitution.

Yeah, it's a super long time. So it's like commerce just with sex in general has just always been around. Yeah. No, definitely. I feel like it's actually the creation of porn and allowing people to just make it freely, like OnlyFans and stuff is actually reducing the need for people to feel like they have to be prostitutes to get money because instead of actually having sex with people on the street,

now they can just upload a video and make money, you know? I think just everything in moderation. Yeah. As long as it's not getting in the way of your job. Right, but that's also up to the individual's discretion. Right. Right. So like to determine when it's an issue versus when it's not an issue.

Self control. I err on that side too. Me too. I just like let people do what they want in their personal time. I also could see how like porn can actually keep a relationship together because say like the couple's very busy or they just the magic of like the intimacy is gone but they still get along as a couple instead of him leaving. to go find a mistress, maybe he just faps to porn and then they stay together.

So I don't know. I see both sides. I don't see it. It doesn't have to be homewrecking. I feel like people who are going to be homewreckers are probably going to be cheaters or whatever regardless of whether if there's porn out there or not. Yeah, I tend to agree with that. I don't think that would be the sole reason.

Yeah. Unless, of course, you just get carried away with it. Right. In which case, I'm sure the deeper. Yeah. It's not the porn thing is that. Interesting. Yeah.

People who are going to be addicted to. something could be like any addicted to drugs or gambling or whatever it is. Okay, this might be an uncomfortable question, but like I said, you're welcome to not answer it if you want to. Oh, cut it out. Yeah, I just figure it would be kind of an intriguing question to ask. Let's say you have a daughter. Would you be comfortable with your daughter doing the same thing that you do for an occupation? Oh, I would definitely be comfortable with that. You'd be totally fine. Yeah, I would be totally fine with that because she's, I, she's able to do it from the comfort of her own home. She's not having to go out and put herself in like weird situation.

to try to make money because it's like sometimes, you know, in like the business world, we've seen women who feel like pressure to sleep at the boss or whatever to climb their way up socially. It's like with the online stuff, she can make however much money she wants doing whatever she wants because there's lots of people who make their money and they don't even have to like go all the way. Maybe they just post sexy pictures, you know, just whatever she's comfortable with, you know, in the comfort of her own home with whoever is consenting and she gets to decide that. I think that's awesome. It gives her the power to do it anywhere she wants without having to feel like she's a slave to the nine to five grind that, you know,

the rest of society often gets sucked into. I think it's cool. If she was down for her to be like, okay, I'd just give her some advice on how to put her identity out there in a way that doesn't give away, like, her address and her full name, like give her like an internet safety guidance. I was like, okay, here you go. You've had some interesting run-ins with that because didn't you have like a fan set of trash can on fire or something like that?

What? You had an arson incident. You had an arson incident. Yeah. Okay, so that's not a common thing. Graham has never experienced an arson incident. What was that like? It was very strange because I heard a loud bang.

I was playing video games. I think I was playing Diablo 3 when it came out. And I was in my room, but I heard like a bang from the outside somewhere. And so I went to go look. I couldn't figure out what it was. As I got closer to the kitchen where like the driveway is, I started to smell burning. And I'm like, I leave a other.

on to leave the stove on or like is there a heater that's left on somewhere like what's happening and i couldn't figure it out because like nothing was on nothing was in the attic and it smelled like a heater going crazy and then i looked out my kitchen window because i had like the blinds on it had to pull back the blinds and my trash can was on fire and unfortunately it was in the one spot where i didn't have a camera the one spot did they did they know that possibly yeah i feel like they were probably trying to find something to do yeah um because my trash can it wasn't at the street they had to come up like to the in the driveway. Interesting.

And the bang was because it exploded against the garage door and like the metal reverberating. No way. Yeah. And so like I had. What exploded in the trash can? I think there was like some alcohol bottles. Okay. So if they drop like a match in their type of thing or something.

Okay. Or like maybe they had something also like that would burn like at some if they dropped a bottle in or something. I'm not sure. Because there was already bottles in there, right? So like all the things like. It could have blown up for like already in the trash can anyways. But yeah, that's the police suspected because it happened like in the middle of the night.

And it wasn't in a place where it would overheat because it was covered like under the garage awning. So it wasn't like the sun beating down. Okay. So yeah, it was very scary though because it was literally like five inches away from my Jeep tire. And then also two inches away from grass. Oh, man. Whoa. Yeah.

It was just like a perfect like meltdown not touching anything. Jeez, that's freaky. And like the trash can melted. to the point where then it became like a flat piece of like melted together plastic with all the contents inside like like on top of it looked like a work of like modern art almost because it was just about this big how long was it on fire for uh i think about 30 minutes and was really unfortunate is that because i get swatted so much when i called in about this the police didn't take it seriously at first this is before i made the safe word yeah and so they thought that i was a

pranksterer of myself whoa yeah that was an issue so they the the the the police were like five minutes away right and it took them like 20 minutes to come out and put the fire out yeah did you not want to go out there with like a hose and just like spray it down no because i didn't know if the person did it was still lurking around sure yeah because it was at night time to start oh wow okay yeah yeah tricky what are some other experiences you've had or some like let's say unexpected uh let's unexpected things that would happen that come with like this level of fame I guess more expected, but another thing that had a deal with his stalkers showing up at the house, that has been super scary because there was a, I don't know if you read about it, the guy from Estonia.

There was a guy from Estonia who had convinced himself that he was going to marry me. And he had to sold all of his possessions back in Estonia, even his house, even sold his cat, or did something with his cat, got rid of it. And he brought just like himself, I got. guess some clothes and like a saxophone case because he played saxophone to America and was just streaming himself trying to find me trying to get me to come find him he'd put where he was in his titles of his stream and it was like um like alec plus Caitlin forever plus amaranth forever the title would change sometimes but like at this Starbucks waiting for you was he getting viewers

he's get like four or five but that's enough of viewers to like to attract haters to egg him on and try to docks me and stuff. And they did. They gave him my address because I've swatted so it was already doxed. And then he showed up trying to break into my house essentially. Like to him, I'm sure he felt like, you know, he wasn't trying to cause harm. But it's like when someone's that crazy, they can be harmful. Yeah.

And so he was trying to like get into the house. He would try to open the doors, try to like go around to the windows, like tap on the windows, trying to find a way to get in because he felt like he was there. was going to be his wife. Was he like, I mean, obviously he's not mentally, like, sound. What happened to the guy? I called police on him, and they detained him the first time. They took him somewhere, I guess, and then they dropped him off, I guess, somewhere,

like away from my house, and he was issued at, like, a trespassing. But, like, order? I don't know what it is. A warrant or something like that, yeah. And so then he disappeared for, like, a year, and then he came back. Same thing again. Try to come to my house and everything called the police on him. And this time they arrested him actually.

And they threw him in a jail cell. Is he still in jail? I don't think so. He's been released. Wouldn't he be deported? You would think that, but apparently they don't do that unless it's like a felony. And apparently stalking and trying to break in your house is not a felony.

How long can you get like a travel visa to the United States? I have no idea. Like there's got to be a limit where he's got to go back. You would think so. I don't know what that limit is. Yeah, but it's not the response. of the local police to check your visa status. Oh, that's like the ice or whatever.

Unless there's something that triggers it like a felony. Got it. Interesting. Yeah, because that's not their job. They don't have a database of your legal status here. Got it. When was the last time he tried, like, tried to do anything? Was that March? Wait, like, recent?

Recent. I also have the big guard dog, too. That guard dog was scary. That was freaky. He is so attuned to knowing when something is wrong because the first time that the guy showed up at my house, he hadn't even come up to the door yet. He was walking up the driveway quietly because we saw those camera footage after what he was doing.

And my dog, the second he set foot on to the driveway part where it starts going up the ramp, my dog started freaking out barking. And he couldn't even see him, no window, no nothing. Like just enclosed in a room, he just heard it or something. He just heard it and knew. Wow. Yeah, I would not want to come face to face with that dog. Yeah, I know.

That was horrifying. Face to face. Face to face with that dog. It was horrifying. So I see you're going to be boxing in August, right? No, July 1st. July? Is it July 1st?

I have one month. That's coming up. I know. So what led up to that? Why say yes to boxing? Well, it was a really cool invite from the Spanish streamers, like actual Spain. And they invited me to participate in their version of Creator Clash, kind of. It's called La Velaida.

It's the third time we're doing it, third year. and before like their boxing events you think career clash is big no no no no it's not big lavalada gets like two to three million concurrent viewers oh wow just for the online portion and this year they're having it at the biggest stadium in madrid it's like a brand new football stadium soccer whatever you're gonna call it 60,000 seats sold out within an hour who else is fighting like how big of a thing is this um it's mostly spanish gamers so most americans don't really know Isn't streaming huge in Spain though? Yeah, it's big.

That's what I thought. Some of the biggest streamers are like Spanish streamers. Yeah. Yeah, it buys the one hosting it. He's got so many viewers all the time. He's huge. Spanish streamers are so big to where they get invited to just like cover the, the professional football games over there.

Like they go on the field, they interact with the players. They get their own VIP room to stream, reacting to. the games. Good business. Yeah, no, they're huge. They're like celebrities. Wow. Like actual like celebrities. Like people think like, oh, streamer, YouTube or celebrities? No, no, no. It's not the same. So how much of this for you boxing is like a business move to get your brand out there and get your name out there versus like this is a personal thing that I want to do to say. It's probably about, okay. It's probably about like 40% opportunity and 60% I want to do it because the thing that I said yes to was when I saw that they used the helmet.

Because I know that it can still be like impact concussions, but at least less chance of a broken nose. Sure. So like faster, physically recover time. And I just think it's such a cool experience to be like invited by people from a foreign country and to go to Europe. Yeah.

And I get to experience all that. And I'm the only American invited. So I felt like it was a huge honor, right? So it's like, oh, shit. So what's it like for you training right now? Right now I'm training. Each of my sessions are two hours. and I'm training like three to four times a week.

So it's hard to balance at all because I'm in a mixture of going to the gym and then my coach coming to my house. Yeah. Are you sparring at all? I'm about to be. Yeah, we're working that this month. Get as much sparring done as possible.

So I'll say I under-trained. I should have been doing like five to six days a week. And I was doing one hours, but like five to six and sparring way more. I sparred three times before the fight, and that did not prepare me at all. Like I should have, like, Michael Reeves sparred like 12 times, and Michelle sparred like 30 times.

It was like a few dozen times. And she was sparring like really like good people. Yeah. I'm lucky though because Spain does not have great boxing coaches or really any boxing champions. So her experience and her like available resources are way less than ours are in America. So her technique does not look very good.

and physically condition-wise, I'm like much more athletic. So it looks like I have the advantage right now, luckily. Who's your opponent? Meici. She's a Spanish streamer. How old is she? Same age as May 29. Okay.

We're the same height, same age, same weight technically, but very different physical condition. Sure. Yeah. So what's a part of your training that you're doing right now? Are you doing like cardio and then the pads? It's some cardio. It's mostly technique and pads and footwork and things like that. that. Yeah, just practicing the technique is the most important. So that way, like, you can put more

power into each punch and, like, work on your stability so you don't just, like, tumble over and stuff. Yeah. For me, I think the cardio is the big one, because you get winded so fast. Like, doing the sparring, one minute feels like 10 minutes. Yeah. No, it's crazy. It's like the mental aspect, too. Just really gets you when you're there. It's like everything you learn kind of goes out the window. Yeah. It's wild. Yeah. I think a lot of it's going to come down. to just instinct, which is why I'm focusing more on learning good technique rather than sparring with bad technique. So I'm hoping to train muscle memory, it'll just kick in when I'm like on autopilot, you know? Yeah. So it's tough though to juggle that with the streaming because

as we talked about the time is worth so much money. Yeah. Because even though like they're, they do pay for your trip and stuff, they try to compensate with your time. It's not the same. Yeah. amount of money is how much my time is actually worth. So it's difficult. It seems as though at least right now you're kind of not slowing down a bit, but like taking it easier. Yeah, it seems like that to people.

Oh, it does? It does seem like that because they don't see how much like I'm doing on the back end. So for me, I feel like I don't have much more free time than I ever did before because now I'm just doing a bunch of different stuff. Yeah. So, yeah, the boxing takes up so much time. Yeah. For me, it was the time leading up, like an hour leading up to it, I couldn't work.

Because in my mind, I'm thinking, okay, I got to finish up this. And like, I can't fully focus. Right. And then, so that's an hour at, you know, before. And then an hour after I get back, I have to shower. And then it takes me time to, like, get back into the... Yeah, it cuts in, even though training's two hours, it cuts into, like, four or five hours of the day. Oh, yeah.

It's crazy. And then you do that however many times a week. It's like productivity cut in half, even though you're not having more free time. Yeah. Are you nervous going into that? Not really nervous, I guess. more of excited to get it over with so that I don't feel like I have to juggle it as many things. I get that.

That's how I felt. Afterwards, I was so happy. Yeah, I was so happy. But I thought if I could do that, I could do anything. Yeah. So. Yeah, because originally when I agreed to it, I thought I could be able to stream all of it.

But it's hard to be able to stream all of it because you don't want your opponent to know everything. Yes. Yeah. So then you realize like, oh, actually, I don't want to teach them how to box by watching me because that's the advantage I have in America is better coaching. You know what Michelle did? And did you watch her boxing video? You got to watch it. Watch her boxing video. It was like watching a movie. So just like yeah, just for the storyline you got to watch it. But she said she hired a team of people to full time watch Andrea Botez all of her streams just to see if she revealed anything

about her boxing training so that they could use that and study against it. And she said like months into it, she released one teaser video on her stream, and the other team, or Michelle's people caught that, analyzed it, and then they adjusted her training based on that. On like a quick 20 seconds at a month. It was wild. So yeah, I mean, you're right on terms of streaming, but yeah. Yeah, I can't believe it. I saw it when Michael Reeves posted, he did like a quick thing on like Instagram or something

like that and went around it, I showed it to my boxing coach. And he was looking at it. He was like, okay, we could do this. I see what he's doing. We could do this. And that's why I never posted anything on myself. Yeah. It didn't work. It didn't work anyway, but. But like, I can just show you personally. I would love to, yeah. My opponent.

Now, while you're pulling that up, have you thought about monetizing your boxing by, like, taking, like, photos and... Oh, that would be good? In sets? Like, because I feel like, you know, nothing like, I'm not saying anything too explicit, but, like, you know, That's a good idea.

You could be doubling up the work, you know? Yeah, this is an idea. I guess for me, it's like I need someone to help facilitate that and then they could be making more money at home. You could be selling the hand, like the hand wraps, some stuff like that, yeah, absolutely. Oh, I said order sweatband.

Michelle did the wraps with Seek Discomverner, she sold them out. Wow. And those weren't even used. No, that's a good idea. Those were new. And those were brand new ones. They look cool though.

Good job, Michelle. They did. I thought it was a too niche of a product, but the fact that she sold out was amazing. That is pretty crazy. I'm like, how many people are going to buy hand wraps for boxing? People feel inspired because she also released the boxing program. So if you sell that with the boxing program,

people are going to buy it so that they could go train. You know what? You should buy your boxing program. Oh, that's not a bad idea. My coach does not want to release any of his teachings. Otherwise, he would do it himself. Have you changed up your diet? Not really. I've cut down on like sugary stuff that I can't analyze. You know, like if it's just like a smoothie or whatever, then I don't know the macros of it that I won't do it. But for the most part, I've already eat pretty healthy. So I'm just like increasing protein really. Okay. Yeah. So it's about normal for me. I'm trying to find if anyone clipped any boxing, but most of the clips are just bikini stuff.

How many people do you have working with you right now? To handle the whole business. That's a great question. Ooh, at the office, like the one, my immediate assistance, there's like four or five full-time. But then, like, if you do the extended universe of real work, right, it's like 17 employees, roughly. And what is that? What do they do? They help manage accounts of other creators, but they're their only fans. Like, they'll help send out content and stuff.

Make sure it's uploaded. Get sent to fans, things like that. So, yeah, they help manage, like, just other creators. social media or like their paid platforms, fans, the only fans, etc. And how do they find creators to help out? Right now we have like girls who approach us really for looking for management. But we'll also just like send out messages to people if we, if it's someone like who I'm friendly with or whatever to ask if they need help with anything because we'll like offer like DMCA services to

or sometimes girls will have an issue where for some reason they've been locked out of OnlyFans account like there's like a ban or something suspension to put on their account by the algorithm because it detected something was against TOS and so we'll help them get back into it because we know the people at only fans who can unbanned them. I think those girls that you reach out to for management a huge perk would be they could join you in a sleep stream. So it keeps it dynamic for you and it's also like a mutually beneficial relationship. They get the exposure of being on your Twitch. It's better for everybody. Yeah they do get priorities for like collabs and things. Yeah. I heard a rumor actually I don't know if it's so much of a rumor

but that you watch Netflix while you're Twitch streaming or you watch shows like you're not fully present while you're doing it I used to do that more during ASMR I don't only do as much ASMR these days but yeah that has happened before yes on my side monitor if I was feeling too sleepy

I'd put on like a movie or a show and you wouldn't explicitly tell chat like hey guys I'm watching like Not necessarily sometimes I would but a lot of times I'm just like watching it while I'm like like doing a little ASMR stuff. How could you focus on doing two things at once like that?

Well, if you've done ASMR for a long time, you realize a lot of it doesn't require focusing. So explain you what, can you do ASMR on one of these microphones? Yeah, it'd be like scratch and like... Yeah, let me turn it up. Oh, oh, oh. I got it. And I feel like whispering like this or like scratching the microphone.

That is so satisfying. Is it really? Yeah. And make them go to sleep. Stuff really close. Oh, my God. Oh. That was perfect timing.

That's really. Yeah, I was like listening. I turned it all the way up and I'm like, I've never heard of A. Alex was just like, no, I never heard about it. She's doing ASMR right into his ears. He's coomed. All right, Graham, your turn for ASMR. I want to see what you got.

I don't get it. I don't get AASM. Hey, guys, make sure to subscribe scenes. Graham is more. Let me give it a shot, Alex. All right, before you do that, I got to say, hers was way more like, like, I've never listened to ASMR on a head phone. phones it's game change i feel like you need

second of all in your mouth graham i could tell like hers was better okay jack go ahead go ahead okay ow dude you like that anyway you laughed in the mic

in my ear anyway that was really good especially though you liked them oh that was good that was good yeah yeah i feel like that's the part people like in asmars when your mouth starts clicking you know yeah they love the mouth clicks yeah i heard a story about you trying to get a monopoly on like OF content or Hot Tub live streams because you had this

back and forth with this other girl and it was competitive back and forth between you and her and then something happened with Pickle Ricks I mean lots of things have happened with pickle ricks something about you buying all of them I know what you're talking about so so what happened here what was the story so um the hot tub meta after I brought the hot tub inside People started doing that. So then I started buying floaties for the hot tub. People started doing that. I noticed every time I bought a new floatie,

suddenly everyone would buy that floatie on, because it was just like Amazon Prime or whatever. I got a banana floaty. Suddenly people would have the same banana floaty and be doing the same thing. I would get like a unicorn or something. They would get the unicorn. They'd do the same thing. So I was like, I want to get something funny,

but I don't want everyone to just copy it right away because it's not funny very long. So I got Pickle Rick. And what I did was I saw their own. only like 20 available and left in stock and I bought all of them because I knew that they'd have to wait for a while for the vendor to restock because it was the only pickle rig floity wow that's pretty smart yeah I bought I bought 20 because what were they like $20 a piece you know what you should have done is create your own floaty I thought about that sold them to everyone

else who wants to buy them I should have done that or a floaty with your face on them didn't I read something about a pool floaty company or something. Yeah, that was part of the private equity. They had like a, yeah, it was in there. A deal with them, you know? Yeah, I should have. I guess I was just too busy, like, on the grind because of how much my time was worth that I didn't want to put that much mental energy into it.

But yeah, that would have been hilarious. So, yeah, I bought all the pickle ricks. And it worked because for, like, like, three weeks, maybe, maybe a month. one else had a pickle rig. And then did people get pickle ricks? Yes. No way when they got restocked. They actually bought them. So you did the right thing technically speaking. Like it proved you right to do that. Yeah. Because it looked like they were all copying me after it became established. I'm the one of the pickle ricks. Wow. Yeah. Because it all happens during the same time. No one really knows like who started. They just see a bunch of girls like, why's everyone on bananas?

Yeah. So what are you doing today to remain like that competitive? Um, today, I don't, I only have as much, like, I don't have like a meta right now, I guess, because I've been, like, so distracted between moving and boxing and all these other platforms, too, now. Yeah, right now, I guess I'm still trying to get there. I want to become the party house because I have, like, this huge space. Yeah. And you see there's, like, contractors here still, because they're still doing some construction, but then after they're done, I want to be able to, like, host events here and fly everyone in

and do, like, big slumber parties with girls. Well, if you're looking for attendees, you know, you're looking to fill some space, just go ahead and let us know. Parties with a ton of girls. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. What I find it interesting is it seems like you're kind of trying to downplay a lot of your accomplishments up until this moment. Because, like, you're walking us through your story, and there's no chance that you were that lucky that many times in a row where, like, just like the natural flow of, I don't know, the current you were in just kind of took you to success after success after success. I feel you need to take.

Yeah, well, I think it's also just hard work too because it's the willingness to be on and do things people aren't willing to do. Because a lot of girls who use their body for money, you know, there's like a reason they do that is because it seems like a shortcut, right? And there are a lot of girls who will spend time doing that. But in the streaming space also, there's not that many who are like super hard grinding and will just be on as long as it takes to make like get that efficiency out of their work. A lot of them still want to enjoy their time. They want to, like, travel. They want to have free time. And that's nice, but I'm, like, paranoid, you know, I don't know how long it'll last.

You're very much goal-driven towards having the sanctuary and, like, building up enough income. Yeah. It's like, I still want to go and I want to de-stress on certain mornings, but, like, I don't, you know, I'll go to the bar and it'll come back, right? And then I'll work. It's not like I'm traveling everywhere. So you think one of the main things that sets you apart from the competition is the work ethic. Yeah, no, definitely. Because it's like you have to be online in order for the algorithm to go in your field.

favor because for Twitch they they reward time streamed and nowadays like you can you can kind of piggyback if you get like an org like OTK or someone or offline TV they kind of like they feed off of each other because they're using the same fan group essentially so that fan group who is like a fan of the content house would go to like every stream and so your streams don't have to be long to get viewership or stuff because you're all just sharing one big audience essentially but if you're kind of by yourself you don't have that like feedback from like this character arc of like stories all intermingling and you kind of just have to grind out the algorithm hours

if you're a solo person. What's your biggest insecurity? I would say maybe my inherent entertaining level because by myself it feels like it's hard to keep up with what currently people find entertaining because I do find like drama, drama, drama entertaining and it's hard to kind of farm that when you don't have a content house

or like other streamers that you're constantly collabing with to kind of feed that into. So you think that you need to chase the trends in order to be entertaining? You think that you don't have that innate just like ability to be entertaining. And it also is harder too for women

because we aren't as seen as like relatable by the majority of Twitch audience, which is male. You know, people typically will watch if she's attractive, but they don't really watch because they feel like that they relate to her per se.

Some of the females might, but that's not the majority of Twitch audience still. It's still mostly males. So it's kind of hard. to feel like you're entertaining truly because part of it is like yeah they are there for your appearance you know that's like the value that a lot of them found you through

and some will stay for your personality but there's also some weird stigma behind like watching women still so like she's not gonna fuck any of you you know people say that in the chat at each other being like why do you guys watch and just donate and subscribe she's not gonna fuck you like as if like that's the only reason why they would associate

with women is to be able to fuck them there's still very much like that that dominating societal stigma, I guess. And what do you feel like the reason is that they're there watching for such a long time? I think some have just formed a kind of community feeling because they talk each other in chat, right? And they'll like support the streamer. They enjoy the streamers personality. They just feel it's kind of like a virtual hangout session, you know?

It's kind of some way to why some people support guy streamers, but there's just less who feel like they can enjoy a feeling. female streamer if she's not fucking them or if that fantasy isn't there that she might one day maybe so some are just like very naysayers. Why would you watch a female? She's not going to sex you because they don't see females as like friends or entertainers. They see females as like an accessory. What do you think is the biggest threat to humanity?

Biggest threat to humanity. Oh God. I think ourselves destroying the planet, not having a planet anymore. mental changes? I think it's not only the environment changing. I think it's just humans. Like, destroying ourselves either like both the environment but then also each other. I think we like the social media aspect encourages drama and conflict and disagreements.

And you see people doing crazier and crazier things. AI as well, which is human-generated. AI is the least of my concern, to be honest. I think it's more of what people choose to do because you see the news covering only negative things. People are more likely to go on. crazy violent rampants if they feel like that's what's getting that's what we'll get them attention because it's like the media while making people aware of it's also kind of glorifying like shootings and things like that they're only increasing more. Some media outlets don't release the

names of the people that do that which I think is kind of nice. Yeah that's true but I don't know if that really helps as much if you're already insane. Yeah. You're just like I want people to talk about me whether I think that was actually a really good answer. Yeah I agree with that completely. How would you fix the economic crisis? Who do you fix the debt ceiling? We're doomed. No, but I feel like if you just eradicated humans, like the world would probably thrive, like environmentally.

I would actually 100% agree with that. Probably. Yeah. Yeah. I don't want it to happen. Right. But that I know that it would, though. Yeah, I have to agree.

It'd be better for virtually every other species. People are like, oh, no, the world is dying. We should leave and go to Mars. I'm like, you know what? We probably should. And the world wouldn't die. You know? Yeah.

It's like, let's go to before it dies. Maybe the world will bounce back. There was like some kind of limitation for a bit in Bay. you know how the pollution is really bad there where like i remember it was a few years ago now maybe several years ago where they had a mandate where like the driving was restricted and within two weeks of cutting down on the amount of people driving like the skies cleared up and it was beautiful and there was no more fog yeah interesting yeah so i feel like it's just humans like we're the biggest threat to ourselves also i got a question because i asked you earlier if you're a vegetarian you said no

but also you have this like crazy intense passion for animals Yeah, it's weird, I know. Why, why? Because I'm the exact same. Like, I love animals. I'm the same as, same as grandma. You know, a little spider gets inside. I'm going to catch it and, you know, release it outside.

I'm not going to kill it, squish it or anything like that. Very passionate towards animals. I love all kinds of them, but I still eat meat. Like, what's your justification for that? I don't know. I don't know if I really have a justification other than, like, I'm a product in my environment and I grew up eating meat. So, like, I don't know.

It's kind of just like I'm used to it now. And in the back of my mind, like, it does bother. me but currently I guess I'm just not in a position where it's like there's enough of a replacement that I'm like oh like available all the time where it's like if I'm if I crave something because I've grown up with it then I at Tene I don't feel good about it but it's also like if I if it's that hopeless feeling too or it's like if I don't eat meat will they stop killing animals will they stop doing the factory farms no right so it's just like it sounds like an asshole thing to say though so it's like I don't like saying it yeah but I also like if everyone

collectively says all right we can all shake hands and agree we're not going to do this I'll be a part of it right it's just mean it'll continue regardless I'm like that's I also don't think ethical argument yeah it is it is it is and I totally get people being like well I do it just for me so I feel better about myself and like what I'm supporting when I'm not sporting and I'm totally for that I think that's awesome one day I would like to switch towards like if I know my meat's coming from an ethical source. I think that's really cool. Like if they have like a hunter, he goes out and he kills a deer and you buy meat from that hunter who killed a deer because there was too many on a reservation or somewhere. Like I would love to switch to where it's like I'm only helping the environment and

nothing is going to waste and all that. I don't know if I could ever get to that point or what service you would even use for that. But I think that kind of thing could be like a much better solution. Yeah, it's just like those 30 day chickens. Like that's so sad. They just grow up to just be like, Or the ones, was it the male chickens get killed instantly? It's so sad. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But that's also what we say. But if, let's say we went to the grocery store and those eggs were double the price or that meat was double the price, how many people are actually going to choose that with their wallet as well?

True. But also at the same point, it's the same argument as everything else. It's like me choosing to buy the more expensive ones, not going to stop that people are being produced. Because the other option is still there. Yeah. Yeah. And it's also tough. because it's like if we all collectively just stopped eating meat that would put so many people who have ranches and land out of business and you might think like well good but they're also the people that often grow the crops and it's like well you're not going to eat meat what are you going to eat the plants but if they can't if they can no longer afford to maintain the land that the plants also grow on because the animals are probably it's more lucrative to sell cattle and stuff then you also don't have a place to grow plants so I think what really needs to happen is that the government needs a

step in and have more regulations on like humane production of like the meat where it's coming from the facility to make sure the animals are taken care of not over production like I just think there needs to be more government regulation I don't think that pressure should fall on the individual consumer but it's hard to like find any movement on that because you can't just say let's not eat meat because right now is currently like the whole farming industry that's the more profitable market and then you don't have places to grow plants if that's the alternative so it's like Have you guys heard about the monopoly on crops? No.

So there's an entire YouTube video I watch. And basically these companies that make the seeds for crops, they have like a IP on the seed. So they sell the seed to a farmer. The farmer plants it. They grow a crop. But the farmer cannot replant that seed or replant seeds from that crop because that company had genetically modified that seed to be able to, whatever, grow faster, better, you know, more yield.

they have to re-buy the ability to be able to plant it. That's crazy. Yeah. So I didn't know you could have intellectual property on genetics. That is crazy. Yeah. Wow. I don't know.

Just another, they always try to control something. I've also read that like with the plants that are genetically modified to grow faster is that they're not as nutrient dense because they didn't have time to mature and get all the nutrients out of it. So they're actually not as healthy as like the original plant. plant for you. So that's like another weird thing. Right. To think about, say, do you want it fast or do you want the help benefits?

Like the full nutrient value. That's kind of the point, right? Yeah, that's the point of the organic, non-GMO, whatever. Food, yeah. Yeah. That's what people say. Like, I don't see a difference. I don't taste a difference.

Like, it's not in the taste. It's in what it's like doing to your body. That's not like it's harming your body. You're just not getting as much nutrients out of it. Yeah. I got to say you're very well-spoken. Yeah. You're an incredibly smart business.

Yeah, you should be doing more podcasts. See, the problem is it doesn't make money for me. No one wants to hear. I don't know. Currently, it doesn't. You have a way. I'm all ears. I'm always open everything.

I would disagree with that. I think if you go on podcasts with different audiences, I mean, the amount of exposure, plus if they do clips, they do shorts, they do all that stuff. It's like. Yeah.

Having my own. Yeah. Yeah. Having your own, I don't know. I'm excited. But after we had our first. So after we had Stella Barry on our podcast, I'll say like probably since then, probably 50 only fans, like models and stuff have like reached out like some pretty big ones too of like DM'd us like, hey, can I get on the iced coffee air? Can I do this? Can I do that? Yeah, no, definitely. Like I love doing podcasts and other people's, but like throwing my own. It's kind of hard because if you already have a community of like guys, guys don't necessarily want to hear women talk about serious subjects. It has to be more of like the what's that really successful girl podcast?

to talk about their things. Yes, that type of thing, typically for like if you have a Kumer audience, right? No, call her daddy. I've listened to it. It's really good. She has some really good people on there. Yeah.

Well, recently, as of late, like in the beginning, the podcast was extremely vulgar. I don't know about the beginning, but now. Yeah, that's probably it's popular. I really enjoyed it. Yeah, I haven't listened to it recently. Yeah. But no, I definitely love doing podcasts, for sure.

I find a refreshing pace. Yeah. Cool. Refreshing change of pace. Thank you so much. Thank you for hospitality. Guys, by the way, she bought us sushi, okay? She also, like, Ubered us and showed us her horses, okay?

So she's been, which is on the vlog channel. Yeah, it's on the vlog channel. The hospitality was insane. Yeah, she's been absolutely incredible, very, very kind person. Oh, thank you. Really appreciate it. Anytime you come to Vegas, let us know. TwitchCon.

We owe you sushi. Feel free to say whatever you want to the cameras, if you want to shout something out. Yeah, if you guys want to follow me anywhere, the most reliable place is going to be my link treat. Downbad.com is a, you know. URL because who knows by the time you watch this maybe my username will be completely different. I don't know. But downbed.com easy to remember. Cool. Thank you so much and until next time.